WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.960 When you travel with Stay on the Line, you don't 2 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:05.040 just pack a bag. You pack the car, the bikes, 3 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:08.599 the just in case case, drive on board with everything 4 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.000 you need and more than relax with a coffee, a 5 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.720 snooze or endless ceviews. That's travel the stay on the 6 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:17.800 Line way. Book your spring getaway to Britain. It's stay 7 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:18.600 on the Line dot Ie. 8 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:23.800 The search for the right mortgage isn't easy, but it's 9 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:29.000 always better with PTSB, So whether you're buying, building or moving, 10 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:31.320 you'll get a team of your own to help you 11 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:35.520 find the right rate. 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Security and insurance 16 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:57.759 is required permanent TSBPSC trading as PTSB is regulated by 17 00:00:57.759 --> 00:00:58.840 the Central Bank of Ireland. 18 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.079 All right, Ron Donson, welcome back to the Jay Burden Show. 19 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:03.640 How you doing man? 20 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:07.280 Yeah, I'm doing pretty good, doing pretty good considering that 21 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:09.000 chaos abounds. 22 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:12.480 Yeah, I wish I should bring you on to discuss 23 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:14.840 more light topics, but every time. It seems like the 24 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:18.159 world is on fire. When I decided to bring you on, yeah. 25 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:21.680 You bring on Edwards to talk about all these fun things. 26 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:25.280 That Angel Hard episode was fantastic and I was as 27 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:29.560 I was listening to it on a very slow, mostly 28 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:36.159 walk jog. I'm getting old, guys. I was like, well, 29 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:39.000 this is fun. Why doesn't my buddy Jay bring me 30 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.760 on to talk about it. I like movies, I like books. 31 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:46.879 No I get to talk about the Four Horsemen. It's 32 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.599 all dead, famine, pestilens and destruction. Oh Ron's back. The 33 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:51.760 world must be doing good. 34 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:54.359 Well, I think I might. I might have you back on, 35 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:57.079 maybe to discuss your music career. I think that would 36 00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:57.879 be a good episode. 37 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:00.239 But I did that with some o GC guys or not. 38 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.560 That was fun. We can do that. We can talk 39 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:06.400 about my dalliance with Van Halen, but we're here to 40 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:09.639 talk about more serious things. Jay. 41 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:15.840 This is complete sidebar issue, literally completely irrelevant. I was 42 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:17.960 actually supposed to record with several other people today. I 43 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.560 couldn't because my power went out. It's back on. I 44 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:24.039 live in the South, It's midway through March. A window 45 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:26.840 in front of me. It is now snowing, if this 46 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.439 isn't a sign of the apocalypse, I have no idea 47 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:30.240 what it is. 48 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:33.639 Well, for those of you watching and not listening, it 49 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:35.319 is not snowing here. 50 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:36.240 It is. 51 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.800 It is a glorious we're in that we get about 52 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:45.240 two weeks of spring in Dallas before the before the 53 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:48.520 blast furnace gets opened, and we're in the middle of that. 54 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:49.800 It's actually chilly today. 55 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:53.400 So but in any case, we're not here to talk 56 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.120 about the weather, just an observation because I'm sort of 57 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:59.639 a gas that it's snowing when it was eighty degrees yesterday. 58 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:01.719 But in all seriousness, I brought you. 59 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:05.960 Always it's always winter, always winter under that uh witch 60 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:07.960 that you live under. Yeah. 61 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:12.840 Really, uh don't remind me somehow, as over as I 62 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.520 thought it was, it is even more over than that. 63 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:21.120 The things going on in my state are I was 64 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.520 gonna say, worse than I could have imagined. But they're Yeah, 65 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:26.199 they're just about as bad as I thought it could 66 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:31.240 be in my worst moments. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But speaking 67 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:38.039 plan right, perfect transition. We're here to talk about Iran More. 68 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:40.800 I put on an episode yesterday with Fears and Darryl 69 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.639 Cooper going over certain aspects of it, and it's rare 70 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.919 for me to do two subsequent episodes on the same topic. 71 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:53.000 But this is a big deal, clearly, and there's a 72 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:56.000 lot of different aspects that I wanted to address that 73 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.560 I simply couldn't in an hour and fifteen minutes. Right, 74 00:03:58.599 --> 00:04:02.039 there's only so much to say. And Ron, you've been 75 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:05.319 going on a podcast tour talking about this issue. Your 76 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:09.599 work with Fearis and Petequanonas is excellent. I highly recommend it. 77 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:13.639 But there's a specific element that you wanted to bring up, 78 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.639 and so I'll throw it to you. Ron, What is 79 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:18.439 going on here? 80 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:21.959 Well, I think it's important for us to realize how 81 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:25.680 we got here quickly, and we could spend easily spend 82 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:33.120 an hour talking just about this. But I think that 83 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:40.319 there is an absolute, absolutely, a manipulation campaign meant to 84 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:45.800 sidetrack the president from his what his opponents would call 85 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:50.480 isolationist goals, what I would call just wise application of 86 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:56.240 the donro Monroe doctrine of can we own our near 87 00:04:56.279 --> 00:05:01.959 abroad and defend that for instance, uh midnight hammer I 88 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:08.000 was I thought was while maybe a little bit beyond 89 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:11.879 what I would normally espouse, I didn't have a problem 90 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:16.639 with it, the move to retake through less violent means 91 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.839 the Panama Canal. I have no problem with that. I 92 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:22.839 I I'm a I'm a big fan of controlling as 93 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:27.199 a regional hegemen and global power. You need to own 94 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.720 your own space. It's why Canada and Mexico and Cuba 95 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:36.480 should be huge priorities, much more so than anything across 96 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.519 an ocean and a sea and a desert. But that 97 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.639 being said, Uh, the president was was exposed in the 98 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.439 and the work of and I'm I don't know what 99 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:52.040 to always think about Max Blumenthal, but his uh, you know, 100 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:56.120 I had heard through sources very close to the president 101 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.399 that he was very concerned of for his own personal safety, 102 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:04.800 for the safety of his family. And I thought, and 103 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:08.759 and the way it was was put to me, I 104 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.360 thought that he was concerned about honestly about IDF and 105 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:17.279 Masad infiltration into the administration. Uh, it's it's it's out 106 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:20.519 in the open throughout the d O D. The Massad 107 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:25.120 has I mean, uh IDF has Uh has a large 108 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:27.240 presence in the Pentagon and so on and so forth. 109 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:29.839 But I thought he was very concerned and that wasn't 110 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:31.720 the case at all. What he had been convinced of. 111 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:36.079 Max Blumenthal writes about this in the Grey Zone, about 112 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:41.600 a long campaign by the CIA and FBI to convince 113 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:46.040 the president that Iran was looking to assassinate him and 114 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:51.040 had the capacity to do so. That is very troubling. 115 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:56.720 And you can go and read Blumenthal's long article, uh 116 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:00.279 essay about this and and he has some pretty good 117 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:06.240 receipts on the matter. I highly suggest that. And so 118 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:10.600 so in hindsight, what the the the trepidation that the 119 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.160 President was feeling was was with regards to what he'd 120 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:19.279 been convinced was an Iranian attempt to assassinate him and 121 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.279 his family. Uh, take care take out his family. So 122 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:24.879 we have that one level of manipulation. And then we 123 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:30.160 also see that uh that BBU that net and Yahoo 124 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:37.199 was had UH basically told the president with or without you, uh, 125 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:41.720 he was going uh to quote you too. I guess 126 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.120 UH that by the time Puriam was coming, they were 127 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:51.160 absolutely going to attack Iran uh and they were going 128 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:55.160 to withhold uh withhold the right to use whatever means necessary. 129 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:59.360 Now that implies the use of nukes that they don't 130 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.959 officially have. Have nudge nudge, wink wink. And that's unaccepted. 131 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:07.600 We can't allow that for a lot of reasons because 132 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:12.240 if you anyone using nukes, even a tactical nuke a 133 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:19.160 you know, that completely up ends the mad calculus apple cart. 134 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:23.120 So we can't allow that. So, and we're concerned about 135 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:27.279 operational security of our own forces, which I think we 136 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:31.680 saw was very, very low anyway, even even with us 137 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:36.200 going in like we did. So this manipulation campaign to 138 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:40.399 get the president off his not just campaign promises, but 139 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:48.399 his philosophical foundation of what a foreign policy for America 140 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:53.240 first should look like. I think was was was planned, 141 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:57.240 It was too pronged, it was very effective and very 142 00:08:57.279 --> 00:09:01.799 most probably amplified by some of those very close to him. 143 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:08.240 I'm looking at you, Susie Wiles, and Susie has allies. 144 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:12.919 The cabinet is factionalized, and Susie has allies within the cabinet. 145 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:15.440 I don't want to go too far into that, but 146 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:19.080 but but that's what I see getting us to where 147 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:23.639 we are, and that's very troubling to me. 148 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.440 Yeah, I mean, at the same time, we've seen this 149 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:35.120 sort of unprecedented push throughout the kind of civilian side, 150 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.799 through the media. This is something that you know, fear 151 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:45.080 is brought up yesterday talking about the series of purchases 152 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.679 in you know, the mainstream world. Obviously you have Barry 153 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.519 Weiss rising to a position of prominence the free press, 154 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.440 but also you know what happened with TikTok and others. 155 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.440 And when this war first kicked off two weeks ago 156 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.559 plus or minus, that was sort of the first thing 157 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:06.879 I noticed is that my feed, my information was very 158 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:10.399 very different than the last the twelve day war right 159 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:15.200 between Israel and Iran last year. We weren't seeing the 160 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:18.120 sort of things that we saw before, and you realized 161 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:23.360 very quickly that non traditional narratives were being suppressed very, 162 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:30.879 very heavily. Similarly, we've seen an insane response from Epstein class, right, 163 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:34.759 those sort of people. For instance, one of the things 164 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:39.679 that you know, I noticed very quickly is that many 165 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:42.960 of these Zionists who have been clamoring for longer than 166 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:47.039 I've been alive, we need to get Iran, we need 167 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.240 to kill their leadership. Well, as soon as they got 168 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:53.919 what they wanted, instead of taking a victory lap saying 169 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:58.000 we did it, awesome, great, they pushed even harder. Right, 170 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:02.320 you have people sort of making claims about Turkey, which 171 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:04.360 you know, look like I'm not a fan of Turkey. 172 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:06.799 I don't want to live there, but they are a 173 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:11.480 country in NATO that's a very difficult you know, ask 174 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:15.159 to wage some sort of war against Turkey. And in 175 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.519 the media we've seen political figures from across the spectrum, 176 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:23.080 I mean not across the spectrum, but basically across the 177 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:27.480 board losing their minds. And one of the things is 178 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:31.240 that there's been a very deliberate effort to cast opposition 179 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:34.759 to this war as one of two things. You were 180 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:40.840 either a Holocaust denying Nazi or an isolationist. This is 181 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:45.120 almost a direct quote from Ben Shapiro, who blamed the 182 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:49.000 fact that, according to him, fifty three percent of Republicans 183 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:54.679 under fifty don't believe the Wikipedia version of the Holocaust. 184 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.759 And he says this is a rise of dangerous conspiracy thinking. 185 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:02.240 You've heard the term the Bircher's thrown around, like we 186 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.679 need to get rid of this crazed conspiratorial thinking. It 187 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:09.399 says that Israel got us into this war. Mark Gerberwitz 188 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.000 in the New York Post he wrote an article making 189 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:15.799 that exact same claim that if you oppose this, you 190 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:19.639 believe that there is a shadowy Jewish cabal controlling the world. 191 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:23.159 This blood libel. That's the only reason you can oppose this. 192 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:26.879 And I think it's pretty clear that there are a 193 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.519 multitude of reasons to oppose this war, a multitude of 194 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.879 reasons to say this isn't a good idea. Now you 195 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:39.240 mentioned the operational security, one of the things we've seen 196 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.320 being sort of tossed around is the supposed commando option. 197 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.200 What it's sort of become in you know, in media, 198 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.480 the term they're using for it, which is the idea 199 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:53.360 of using special forces. We can't really confirm or deny 200 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:58.440 those rumors that that is planned to occur, but the 201 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:03.600 alleged target seem to be very very dangerous for our assets. 202 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.919 It would involve flying a lot of very expensive guys 203 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:11.159 that there aren't a lot of into airspace where they 204 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:15.720 could be shot down and killed, sort of another version 205 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:19.000 of what we saw with Operation Red Wings. This is 206 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:23.360 setting aside the diplomatic fallout, right the countries and the Gulf, 207 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.000 who understandably are quite peeved at us, let alone, you know, 208 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:31.600 South Korea who's had their THAD batteries hijacked, right taken, 209 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.279 and so the idea that this is the opposition to 210 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.919 this war is motivated out of some sort of cheap 211 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:43.440 ethnic hatred is completely and totally absurd, and really at 212 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.519 the core of this, I think are two issues, which 213 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.279 is one, what does it mean to be sovereign? What 214 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.080 does it mean to be a sovereign nation? And two 215 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.320 what does it mean to be a serious nation? A 216 00:13:55.399 --> 00:14:00.080 nation that has civilizational concerns instead of this sort of 217 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.320 you know, primary focus on I guess we could say 218 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.120 prosperity if even that and uh. 219 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:10.639 Yeah, particular kind of a particular kind of prosperity. But 220 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:14.639 but let's back up, because you've got a ton there. Yeah, yeah, 221 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:19.600 there's a lot there. But what I would say, let's 222 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:24.360 let's let's be very uh let's be very rational and 223 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.120 step back and try to put this in uh in 224 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.480 a press conference uh speak to begin with, and then 225 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.399 let's get more granular and more gritty. I think in 226 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:42.440 wartime there's always a temptation to collapse the range of debate. Okay, 227 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:48.360 so anytime bullets start flying, there's just the the the 228 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:54.159 the window gets smaller, regardless, that's part of that is 229 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:58.000 is not just governmental but human nature. Okay, we're we 230 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:02.440 we want to U pull together, and that ends up 231 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:06.480 pulling at the at the limits of of ideological view 232 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:09.080 as well. So I want to I want to say, 233 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.559 that's kind of a natural thing. But if you question 234 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:16.200 the wisdom of a conflict, not just this one, but anyone, 235 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.240 you're told you must be. This is historically in this country, 236 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.279 you must be either an isolationist or motivated by prejudice. 237 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:30.200 And yet historically American foreign policy debate has included the 238 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:35.799 realist tradition, which asks a different question, not whether we 239 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:41.320 like or dislike a country, but whether given conflict actually 240 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.879 serves the long term interests of the United States. And 241 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:48.120 that should always you should always push for that to 242 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.679 be valid. That is a valid question, no matter what. 243 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.960 And the way and the way you ensure it's legitimacy 244 00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:00.039 is say, hey, look, I'm I'm absolutely pro us and 245 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.480 and I don't want our guys killed. You do see 246 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:07.440 some I have seen some weird you know, there's some 247 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.519 weird fringes where you know, maybe our guys getting killed 248 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:15.799 will serve our long term purpose. Look, I just don't that. 249 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.600 I don't want to entertain that those the guys who 250 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.440 are man, the guys who are fighting, regardless of whether 251 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.799 I agree or disagree with whether they ought to be 252 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:28.039 over there. They're Americans, and if we're going to be 253 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.879 if we're going to see America as not just this 254 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:34.519 propositional thing, then we have to be pro flesh and 255 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:38.200 blood Americans. Right, So I kind of want to step 256 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:44.000 against that. But to your great greater point is I 257 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.399 see kind of this, And tell me if you think 258 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.080 I'm wrong here, but I kind of see this effort 259 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:56.279 to Ukrainify the United States, this Ukrainification, and what does 260 00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:00.919 that look like? Well, okay, bear with me. Who was 261 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:06.119 Zelenski before? When when Ukraine was actually a normal going 262 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:09.359 concern back in the day. He was he was a 263 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.960 TV guy, He was a TV star, He made people laugh. 264 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:17.920 He you know, he was comedian, but he was you know, uh. 265 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.160 And and who is the cabal that now runs the 266 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:25.920 country that we helped put into power? But the US 267 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:31.279 foreign policy gang helped put into power because Maydahan was 268 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:37.079 absolutely we pushed that along, if not gendered up completely ourselves. 269 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:41.119 Look who the controlling interests are in the country now? 270 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:48.240 That really doesn't reflect the the people in Ukraine. Okay, 271 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:53.720 So I don't want to get too ethnically specific about that. 272 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:56.119 But you can put two and two together, and I 273 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:01.440 see a similar effort being done without having to go 274 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:04.839 the Bircher or the conspiracy route. I just think you 275 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:11.119 see a very similarly uh uh some of the same 276 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:17.119 incentives driving the the the ruling class here. And no, 277 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:22.240 I don't think uh Jews are the boogeyman that secretly 278 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.400 run the world. There's just not enough of them. Do 279 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:33.440 I think they represent a type of cosmopolitan collectivist GDP 280 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:39.160 first citizen of the world because that makes most sense 281 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:44.400 for a diasporic people, and therefore because we're the most 282 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:48.799 because that's the most rationalist take. That's the Do I 283 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:56.240 see all those incentives aligning? Yes, and uh so that's 284 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.039 kind of where I see. I see this kind of 285 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:04.440 uni ukrainification and process at play here, and I think 286 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.240 it would be easily. I mean, look, the history of 287 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:12.839 Russia shows this. Only seventeen percent of Russians were Bolshevik 288 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.079 at the time of the revolution, So it's easy for 289 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.759 a unification of incentives around some of these same goals 290 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:27.920 to hold a greater than let's call it democratic mass 291 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:32.359 impetus or influence. And I think that's what's going on, 292 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:39.160 rather than a Elders of zion kind of view of things. 293 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:43.160 I think they just there is a there's a confluence 294 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:52.559 of incentives and views that Nea Kon's Zionists, collectivists kind 295 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:59.480 of new new wave in the sense of there's a 296 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:01.920 certain part part of the tech community that sees this 297 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:08.880 as the kind of the atheist rationalist what's the next 298 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.680 step of human evolution. There's a part of that, there's 299 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.839 a part that really isn't that's more more right oriented, 300 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.119 but there's a portion that that's and and the confluence 301 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:23.880 of all these kind of points in that direction, but 302 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.039 it But finally to your final point is is this 303 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:32.960 what serious nations do? And that's the big question because 304 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:41.000 if serious nations are see a civilizational cohesiveness to their 305 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:49.720 to their identity, and that stands a thwart this cosmopolitanism, 306 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.920 this this uh what we've been talking about, the open 307 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:59.880 society kind of thing, and and serious nations are civilizational 308 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:04.839 and civilizational nations ask the questions that we just asked, 309 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:08.880 is this in the long term civilizational interests of the 310 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:14.240 United States? Rather than does this make does this make 311 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.519 arrow go up? Long term? I don't think it does 312 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:20.039 that at all. But But but that's the thinking behind it. 313 00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:23.599 So that's kind of that's that's a lot. Your question 314 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.400 was a lot, but that's kind of where my head 315 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.279 is on on on all this. 316 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:36.319 Yeah, I think that that that question of like what 317 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:39.200 is best for the nation is really at the core 318 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.839 of this, and I think that's part of why you've 319 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:49.000 seen a deliberate attack on so called isolationism, which is, 320 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:53.039 let's be honest, it's a slur. It is intended to say, 321 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.759 you have a ridiculous opinion, We don't need to talk 322 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.279 to you because look. 323 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:02.079 Like islence you. It's meant to put you in an 324 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:07.640 ideological internment camp. That's what it is. Okay, we can't 325 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.480 do real internment camps anymore because we've in our egalitarianism, 326 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.039 we said that's the one thing that FDR did that 327 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:20.079 was wrong, But we can as freaking surely put you 328 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:23.359 in an ideological internment camp. And that's what that's meant 329 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:24.279 to do. Anyway. 330 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:28.720 Go on, Well, and I mean you've seen as part 331 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:32.799 of this ongoing fight between sort of con inc and 332 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:35.640 you know, whether you would call it the new Right, 333 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.480 I mean, this has been going on since the election, 334 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:43.839 but particularly since you know, the Israel hamas war kicked off, 335 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:49.440 is that there's been a deliberate attempt to purge the unbeliever. Right. 336 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:53.680 We've seen this throughout you know, different young Republican organizations. 337 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.359 We saw this at Heritage, We've seen this at you 338 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:02.160 know a number of levels. And particularly this term isolationism 339 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:07.400 is oftentimes bundled with an idea that, oh, you just 340 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:13.400 hate one America or you hate the president. And I 341 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:17.400 don't think that's a particularly compelling argument, seriously, but it 342 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.240 has been used and it is currently being used to 343 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.440 do exactly that, to sort of create this ideological internment 344 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:27.480 camp where we can just section you off, dismiss you 345 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.920 sort of out of hand. But I think part of 346 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:35.039 the reason that this slur doesn't stick is that myself 347 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:38.920 and many other people look at, you know, a history 348 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:42.720 of recent wars that were done quite poorly, but we 349 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.559 can think of many other armed conflicts that we think 350 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:47.400 we're a good idea. You know, I may be in 351 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:50.519 the minority, but I think by doctrine at the time, 352 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.519 both Korea and Vietnam were legitimate. Right within that framework, 353 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.359 they made sense. You know. Okay, maybe it didn't work 354 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:01.559 out great, but like at least, you know, you can 355 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:04.359 within the sort of constraints at the time, is a 356 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:05.160 reasonable decision. 357 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:10.039 Yeah, So as a philosophy, was that a viable and 358 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:17.880 valid philosophical view to foreign policy? Yes? Absolutely, okay, And so. 359 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.480 The reason I bring that up is, you know this, 360 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:24.559 I am not despite the fact that I'm good friends 361 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.599 with him, I'm not in this Scott Horton camp on war. 362 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:31.240 You know, I don't believe that war is fundamentally illegitimate. 363 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:33.480 It is a thing people do. It is a horrible thing, 364 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.440 but it comes, like the seasons. It is something that 365 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:40.000 people do. So given that when I am told, well, 366 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:46.680 I must accept seemingly the complete sort of surrender of 367 00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:51.920 my nation's sovereignty, my nation's right to decide on its 368 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:57.079 own matters of war and peace, that isn't really an 369 00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:59.799 issue with isolationism. It's an issue about, well, what is 370 00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:03.839 the point of this country? Are we independent? Are we 371 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.880 a civilization? Because you and I spoke on the phone 372 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:13.920 a week ago plus or minus about comments from Secretary 373 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:17.240 of State Marco Rubio, and I realized that he later 374 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.279 walked these back. In my mind, it's sort of an 375 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.599 open question as to whether he walked back those statements 376 00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:25.200 because they were untrue or because he shouldn't have said 377 00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:25.920 it out loud. 378 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:30.119 That shot collar, Uh, that burns after a while. 379 00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:35.839 Yes, And he basically intimated that the whole reason we 380 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:40.039 got into this is because Israel was going anyway and 381 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.200 we were worried that without our support they would go nuclear, right, 382 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.480 a situation we don't want. 383 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.000 That's right, And Okay, I loved it that he came 384 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:50.680 out and said that. It was like, oh, we're gonna 385 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.559 talk about the elephant room, finally, finally. 386 00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:58.119 Right, And so okay, let's discount that. You know, you, 387 00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:03.680 my imaginary critic, might say, well, Rubio walked those statements back. Okay, Well, 388 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:11.000 let's simply look at the interests of Israel and America 389 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.440 what we both want, and sure there are areas where 390 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.880 those are aligned, but as with any two nations, there 391 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:23.720 are gaps, and seemingly this war is being waged to 392 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:26.359 serve the interest of Israel and not ours. Here's one 393 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:29.920 more example when you have the President saying, and he 394 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.880 was joking when he said this, well, we killed our 395 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:36.920 first choice for the next Iranian leader, and our second 396 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.599 and our third right, all of our plans to have 397 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.440 a regime change were stymied by everyone getting blown up. 398 00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.000 That indicates to me that that really isn't what we 399 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:50.519 wanted to have happen. That strike, at least as far 400 00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:53.240 as I know, was carried out by Israel, and now 401 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:57.839