Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Danielle and I'm Megan, and welcome to our
Speaker 1: podcast Off the Trails, where we'll be sharing stories of
Speaker 1: mystery and missus venture that all take place in the outdoors.
Speaker 2: And this week we'll be Danielle's turn to share a
Speaker 2: story with us. All Right, how are you today? I've
Speaker 2: been better. It's been a week. It has been a week. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So for our listeners, we started off our Monday strong
Speaker 2: by Andrew getting in a very bad car accident on
Speaker 2: his way to work. So luckily he's okay. The truck
Speaker 2: is not, but that doesn't matter because he's here and
Speaker 2: that's that's the most important thing. But it definitely has
Speaker 2: kind of turned everything upside down. My nerves are still shot.
Speaker 2: I've got some crazy emotions happening. So that's that's this week.
Speaker 2: How's yours? I mean, my week started out with your week?
Speaker 2: I just it?
Speaker 3: Did I just get the text message that you were,
Speaker 3: you know, getting in the car and about to drive
Speaker 3: two hours because Andrew was in an accident. And then
Speaker 3: of course I had to drive in that terrible rain
Speaker 3: on my ride to work, and my vehicle started a
Speaker 3: hydroplane and like, don't break, don't do anything, And then
Speaker 3: I spent the first like two hours of my day
Speaker 3: literally just checking your location every five because I'm like,
Speaker 3: I need to know that you made it to wherever
Speaker 3: he was. And then I was gonna be like, all right,
Speaker 3: at least she's there. I can stop worrying about that
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 2: As infuriated with the Boston traffic, as I was just
Speaker 2: watching my little dot not move.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was like, is this not updating? Or is
Speaker 3: she just sitting here still?
Speaker 2: And oh, I was just sitting there, and then I
Speaker 2: can do August two hour drive to the hospital.
Speaker 3: I continued to creep your location later because then I
Speaker 3: was like, I didn't want to be texting you like
Speaker 3: for updates when I didn't know If you knew how
Speaker 3: he was, would I want to be like ask all
Speaker 3: these questions and you'd be like, I don't know. So
Speaker 3: I was like, I will just be patient, but I
Speaker 3: will continue to check her location to see when they
Speaker 3: leave the hospital, because you know, that would be a
Speaker 3: good indicator that you know he was okay, because I
Speaker 3: knew you wouldn't leave without him.
Speaker 2: But then I was like, what are they doing on
Speaker 2: the side of the road.
Speaker 3: In Lakeville And a few minutes later, I'm like, now
Speaker 3: they're on the other side of this same part of
Speaker 3: the road, in the same place.
Speaker 2: What are they doing?
Speaker 3: So you're in route back at north. I was like,
Speaker 3: all right, I'll just wait till after the workday to
Speaker 3: get updates.
Speaker 2: That was a nice little intermission to try and locate
Speaker 2: his phone and wallet and everything that came out of
Speaker 2: a truck. So after we left the place that it
Speaker 2: was towed to, we looked in. There was really not
Speaker 2: a whole lot left in there, so we tried to
Speaker 2: find it based on the location of his phone, and
Speaker 2: we could not find it. We kept going back and
Speaker 2: forth on that highway and could not find it. So
Speaker 2: his new phone came in today, luckily enough. All Right,
Speaker 2: things are moving along.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, like getting better, but I don't
Speaker 3: know if that's true.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's been a week.
Speaker 3: Last week I felt very scattered, like I got nothing
Speaker 3: accomplished workwise. I felt like I got nothing accomplished home,
Speaker 3: and then yesterday I was like, all right, I feel good.
Speaker 3: And then today, as I was leaving the office, I
Speaker 3: told my boss that I hated everyone, and everyone pissed
Speaker 3: me off today.
Speaker 2: So Wednesday, happy Wednesday.
Speaker 3: Happy Wednesday. I have no tolerance for anyone. Apparently got
Speaker 3: a couple more days to hold it together. So but
Speaker 3: I feel like it's been a very long time since
Speaker 3: we recorded.
Speaker 2: It feels like forever, but it's been two weeks, but
Speaker 2: it does feel like much longer. And we do apologize
Speaker 2: for skipping last week.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I had like a scratchy throat last week,
Speaker 3: and I was like, all right, like maybe like a
Speaker 3: day or two it'll be better, and then it actually
Speaker 3: got worse, and then we rolled into this week and
Speaker 3: with chaos. So here we are, all right. So before
Speaker 3: I get into my story, I would like to talk
Speaker 3: a little bit about the Appalachian Trail, Oh, my favorite
Speaker 3: so I have also I mean, obviously I lived in
Speaker 3: New England. People always refer to it here as the
Speaker 3: Appalation Trail, but I've also heard a lot of videos
Speaker 3: or people referring to it as the Appalachian Trail.
Speaker 2: Proper pronunciation. I don't know, because I googled pronunciation as
Speaker 2: one does, and the Google lady told me Appalation. Well,
Speaker 2: the region is like Appalachia, right, so right that Appalachian
Speaker 2: Mountains is more What word am I looking for?
Speaker 3: Correct, accurate.
Speaker 2: I don't know, yes exactly.
Speaker 3: So I will just be using the New England pronunciation.
Speaker 2: I guess, and it may be wrong, but I don't
Speaker 2: want to be right, or you could just be neutral
Speaker 2: and just you know, to be diplomatic. I will be
Speaker 2: referring to it from here on out as the AT.
Speaker 3: In my writing, it all says the AT. But when
Speaker 3: I like pre read out loud to myself, I kept
Speaker 3: wanting to say ET. I'm like, I'm going to screw
Speaker 3: this up. So if I say ET, I actually hate ET.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was never a huge fan of that.
Speaker 3: That move creeps me out. Even as an adult. I
Speaker 3: see ET and I'm like, no, thank you.
Speaker 2: It's a weird one. Okay, buckle up.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about the Appellation Trail before.
Speaker 2: I get into my store.
Speaker 3: The Appilation Trail is over twenty one hundred miles long,
Speaker 3: running through fourteen states from Georgia to Maine. The length
Speaker 3: of the trail is now managed by the AT Conservancy,
Speaker 3: National Park Service, US Forest Service, plus many more agencies
Speaker 3: and organizations, but originally it was started by private citizens.
Speaker 3: Going back to nineteen twenty one. There are a variety
Speaker 3: clubs that help maintain portions of the trail along with
Speaker 3: the help of volunteers. So not only does a ton
Speaker 3: of work go into hiking the Appllation Trail, but there's
Speaker 3: an endless amount of work that goes into keeping the
Speaker 3: trail well maintained, safe, and accessible. According to the National
Speaker 3: Park Service website, there are thirty one trail maintaining clubs
Speaker 3: dedicated to keeping the at in its best condition. So
Speaker 3: when talking about huge hiking trails like the Appalation Trail,
Speaker 3: the Pacific Crest Trail, or the Continental Divide Trail, usually
Speaker 3: hear people either section hiking or through hiking. Section hiking
Speaker 3: is pretty straightforward. Someone hikes sections of the larger trail
Speaker 3: over time, and they might complete the trail over the
Speaker 3: course of several hiking seasons or maybe even over our lifetime.
Speaker 3: Through hiking also sounds straightforward, hiking end to end in
Speaker 3: a single trip, but some hikers also do what's called
Speaker 3: a flip flop hike. Instead of starting for this example,
Speaker 3: the Appalation Trail, instead of starting in Georgia and head
Speaker 3: a north to Maine or vice versa, people start somewhere
Speaker 3: in the middle, hike to one end, and then head
Speaker 3: back to where they started. I guess by plane and
Speaker 3: then hike the opposite direction to complete the full trail.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's weird way to do it, but.
Speaker 3: It's still considered through hiking if you do it all
Speaker 3: in one trip, I guess. So benefits of the flip
Speaker 3: flop hike can be hitting areas when the weather might
Speaker 3: be more mild, as well as missing out on some
Speaker 3: of the crowds in the beginning of the season because
Speaker 3: most people do start.
Speaker 2: At one end or the other.
Speaker 3: Oh. I think it's probably kind of like the gym
Speaker 3: in January. You get in there January second and it.
Speaker 2: Is just like packed.
Speaker 3: But by the time you get to February, you know,
Speaker 3: there's not quite so many people. You know, you get
Speaker 3: a couple of states in and it's like, well, everybody
Speaker 3: else is kind of dropped off.
Speaker 2: That's a good analogy.
Speaker 3: Because thousands of people attempt to hike the Appolation Trail
Speaker 3: every year, but only about twenty five percent succeed, which
Speaker 3: might be still a better rate than people that are
Speaker 3: still going to the dinner at the end of the year.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Probably, so typically it takes people five to seven months
Speaker 3: to do the entire eighty some people who are apparently
Speaker 3: superhuman fast hikers have done it in less than fifty days.
Speaker 2: We were talking about that on our hike on Saturday, like,
Speaker 2: how do you as a human just through hike the
Speaker 2: eight And I think, what is it? Like forty five days?
Speaker 2: I think, I tell the record's like forty three days.
Speaker 2: Forty three Oh my god, Like that's incredible. To be honest,
Speaker 2: I think it has taken me longer to like fully
Speaker 2: put away a load of laundry on occasion, like forty
Speaker 2: three days.
Speaker 3: That's amazing to do twenty one undred, oh almost twenty
Speaker 3: two hundred miles.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't I can't even fathom that.
Speaker 3: No, So seriously, good on those people. If you're one
Speaker 3: of those people, I'm beyond impressed, honestly.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: There have been about one hundred recorded deaths since the
Speaker 3: completion of the trail in nineteen thirty seven, which is
Speaker 3: actually a low number when you consider the popularity, distance
Speaker 3: and the amount of time it takes to hike the
Speaker 3: whole length, I mean, plus the terrain it's very rough
Speaker 3: in some areas. So only one hundred deaths, that's really
Speaker 3: not not that bad.
Speaker 2: No, And.
Speaker 3: I will revisit this at some point. But some of
Speaker 3: those one hundred recorded deaths were were homicides.
Speaker 2: I believe.
Speaker 3: I really did well keeping myself focused, but I did
Speaker 3: see that there were some homicides. I believe in the
Speaker 3: seventies there was like a serial killer down south along
Speaker 3: the trail, and I was like, no, stay focused on
Speaker 3: what you're researching today.
Speaker 2: Don't get distracted.
Speaker 3: So at some point I will revisit that, and we
Speaker 3: cannot discuss some of those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are three kind of more recent and probably
Speaker 2: on the more prominent side of some of those deaths,
Speaker 2: more specifically homicides on the trail that I actually have
Speaker 2: in the queue. Oh and coincidentally enough, my story next
Speaker 2: week is one of them. Oh, how did did we
Speaker 2: did not know that? We? We did not know this?
Speaker 3: All right, so we're on the same brain path. Yes, okay, So,
Speaker 3: according to the National Park Service, an average year sees
Speaker 3: two to three hikers go missing along the Applation Trail,
Speaker 3: and deciding to hike the Applation Trail end to end
Speaker 3: is a huge commitment. Beyond the physical effort, it takes
Speaker 3: typically at least half a year of someone's time, and
Speaker 3: I read it costs most hikers between five and seven
Speaker 3: thousand dollars in equipment supplies like those rest or zero
Speaker 3: days you know in towns along the trail. So from
Speaker 3: like a research perspective, I definitely feel like people don't
Speaker 3: go into a hike of this magnitude lightly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't think people go into it half hearted. So
Speaker 3: that brings us to today's story, who is it so?
Speaker 3: Missing hiker Geraldine Largae caught national attention in July of
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen while hiking the Appalation Trail in the remote
Speaker 3: wilderness of Maine. Jerry, as her friends and family called her,
Speaker 3: was a retired Air Force nurse and she had a
Speaker 3: dream of hiking the Appollation Trail. In twenty thirteen, she
Speaker 3: was making that dream come true. She had taken a
Speaker 3: lot of practice hikes in her home state of Tennessee,
Speaker 3: as well as some actually like some hiking courses prior
Speaker 3: to embarking on this big hike. So I definitely feel
Speaker 3: like she had done she had put in the work.
Speaker 3: She knew what she was getting into. I don't think
Speaker 3: she had any like false expectations that it was going
Speaker 3: to be easy or light or quick.
Speaker 2: I think she knew what she was doing. It sounds
Speaker 2: like she trained for it, she did her research, she
Speaker 2: was taking it seriously, so it wasn't like a spontaneous
Speaker 2: decision and she went into anything ill prepared.
Speaker 3: Right, So Jerry took the adorable trail name inch Rom
Speaker 3: because although she may have been slow, she was moving along.
Speaker 2: So I did mention she was retired. I believe she
Speaker 2: was sixty six at the time she started. Wow, I
Speaker 2: love I love hearing those stories.
Speaker 3: Me too, And honestly, if I ever have six months
Speaker 3: to go hike, it's not going to be until I
Speaker 3: don't have like a regular job. So right, you know,
Speaker 3: right now, I have a job that I have to
Speaker 3: go to in person and a kid who's got to
Speaker 3: go to school, and I'm totally out of shape. But
Speaker 3: maybe in forty years I'll be like, you know what,
Speaker 3: now it's the time I'm going to hike.
Speaker 2: Well, it's inspiring because age has such a sort of
Speaker 2: stigma attached to it, especially aging, and so when you
Speaker 2: see these people kind of breaking those stereotypes, it's really
Speaker 2: cool to see and it is it's I'm sure it's
Speaker 2: empowering for them, but it's really nice to see that
Speaker 2: as someone who's in who's part of the society that
Speaker 2: makes you feel like aging isn't good and you do
Speaker 2: less and less as you age, and you're capable of
Speaker 2: less and less.
Speaker 3: And I think we had talked a couple weeks ago
Speaker 3: about the guy in his nineties who hiked me.
Speaker 2: Yeah Dome, and I saw the video. I think I
Speaker 2: shared the video. Actually, he is so cute. He was
Speaker 2: like not winded at all.
Speaker 3: Like I go up the I go up the stairs
Speaker 3: going to my desk at my work, and I'm like, who,
Speaker 3: I need a second before anybody talks to me, because
Speaker 3: I could be like in cardiac arrests in a second.
Speaker 3: This ninety year old guy is just cruising up there.
Speaker 3: I was like, good for him.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I was winded a few times on Mount Major,
Speaker 2: which is like a very family friendly mountain, and a
Speaker 2: few times I'm like, well, not a second, guys, let
Speaker 2: me catch my breath. No, you were just appreciating the view. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, Jerry's husband George was quoted as saying, hiking the
Speaker 3: Appalation trail and sleeping in tents and wearing the same
Speaker 3: stuff three or four days in the rain not on
Speaker 3: my bucket list. But she needed to be supported on
Speaker 3: the hike because she has limits on what she could carry.
Speaker 3: So I simply had to say, Okay, suck it up.
Speaker 3: What's six months in the grand scheme of things. So
Speaker 3: I did it, And I love that attitude. He was like,
Speaker 3: that is not for me. I don't want to hike.
Speaker 3: I'm not about that, but you do, so I will
Speaker 3: support you even though it sounds terrible and I don't
Speaker 3: want to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, it's not my dream, it's your dream.
Speaker 2: I'm here to support your dream. That's part of being
Speaker 2: your partner, and so I'm your hype man. Yeah. So
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: So because George was not about the hike, he wasn't
Speaker 3: hiking the whole trail with her, but he would hike
Speaker 3: like a portion of the trail with his wife and
Speaker 3: then double back to the car and drive ahead to
Speaker 3: feed her further along. So I think typically he would
Speaker 3: walk like hike like a mile or so, and then
Speaker 3: hike back and you know, meet her up ahead, whether
Speaker 3: it's you know, later that day or a couple of
Speaker 3: days later.
Speaker 2: Sounds like they had a good little system in place. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And because he was playing the support role with the
Speaker 3: supplies and all that, he was given the honorary trail
Speaker 3: name of Sherpa, which is a wik cute that.
Speaker 2: That's great in Schwarm and Sherpa. I love that.
Speaker 3: So Jerry had started her hike in April and just
Speaker 3: over three months later would be the last time she
Speaker 3: would be seen. She did have a friend, Jane Lee,
Speaker 3: who had started out the hike with her, but at
Speaker 3: some point I'm not really sure when. Jane had a
Speaker 3: personal or family emergency so she had to return home,
Speaker 3: but Jerry continued on on her own.
Speaker 2: Did Jerry start in Georgia.
Speaker 3: I think she was doing the flip flop high.
Speaker 2: Oh, she did the flip flop, So she started somewhere midway.
Speaker 2: That would make more sense because I'm just following the
Speaker 2: timeline that you're saying. And if she started her hike
Speaker 2: and three months later the last time she was seen
Speaker 2: alive and she and you said earlier, it was in Maine,
Speaker 2: so like three months. I mean, if she's a powerhouse
Speaker 2: and going from Georgia to Maine in three months, right,
Speaker 2: good honor.
Speaker 3: But Traili Chetah, not in that way exactly.
Speaker 2: Okay, So that makes sense. That's okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm not sure there's there's a few different
Speaker 3: ways that people tend to like break down the flip
Speaker 3: flop hike. Not everybody starts like directly in the middle, right,
Speaker 3: but there's like a couple options to break it up eventually.
Speaker 3: Jerry was hiking a stretch of trail that would require
Speaker 3: her to spend several nights along the trail, and she
Speaker 3: was expecting to meet up with George on July twenty third.
Speaker 3: She was last seen by other hikers the previous day,
Speaker 3: spending the night at the Poplar Ridge lean To, which
Speaker 3: is about twenty two miles from where she planned to
Speaker 3: meet George. So the couple stayed in touch as much
Speaker 3: as self service allowed, but there's definitely sections where self
Speaker 3: service is poor, if not nonexistent. So when Jerry didn't
Speaker 3: arrive at their meeting spot on the twenty third, George
Speaker 3: really wasn't too concerned. He thought Jerry was just living
Speaker 3: up to her Inchirm name and was running a little behind,
Speaker 3: and with the terrain as tough as it is, that
Speaker 3: area can definitely be slow going, so really not out
Speaker 3: of the ordinary that she was running a few hours
Speaker 3: or even a day behind. On the twenty fourth, however,
Speaker 3: he did become concerned. He started asking any passing hikers
Speaker 3: if they'd seen her along their route in the past
Speaker 3: couple days, and no one had, so he did contact
Speaker 3: authorities to report her missing, and really it sounds like
Speaker 3: no time was wasted getting the official search going. The
Speaker 3: main Wordance Service, state police, border patrol agents, national park rangers,
Speaker 3: and local residents turned out to help search. In addition
Speaker 3: to all those people, the Navy has a training facility
Speaker 3: very close to where it was suspected that Jerry had
Speaker 3: gotten lost, so Navy personnel were also on site to
Speaker 3: assist in the search.
Speaker 2: Oh that's cool.
Speaker 3: Did also bring in search jobs and aircraft to assist
Speaker 3: as well, and it really does everything I read. It
Speaker 3: sounds like they sprang into action very quickly and did
Speaker 3: what they could. They did eventually do some of the
Speaker 3: normal missing persons like inquiries with the family, as far
Speaker 3: as like Jerry and George's relationship, Would there be any
Speaker 3: reason that Jerry would choose to disappear, you know, questions
Speaker 3: of those nature, which you know, I think we know
Speaker 3: are normal in a missing person's case, right, But those
Speaker 3: types of questions came in in the coming days where
Speaker 3: they weren't finding her where they expected to I think
Speaker 3: that's when they were kind of like, all right, let's
Speaker 3: rule out anything else being at play here, but they
Speaker 3: definitely start searching for her immediately. So people get lost
Speaker 3: all the time along the trail, and with any type
Speaker 3: of missing person in the woods, typically people are found
Speaker 3: within hours, and almost always people are found within twenty
Speaker 3: four hours, So multiday searches for people are really pretty rare.
Speaker 3: Especially for an average adult, they're found within hours. Young
Speaker 3: kids or someone with a mental health condition, those searches
Speaker 3: might go on a little bit longer because they might
Speaker 3: hide out of confusion, or you know, sometimes kids think
Speaker 3: they're going to get in trouble, so you know, instead
Speaker 3: of being like, oh, I'm here, they're afore they're going
Speaker 3: to get in trouble and hide. So, you know, for
Speaker 3: a typical adult, though, rescue or.
Speaker 2: They're looking for rescuers just as much as rescuers are
Speaker 2: looking for them, so hopefully they link up a little
Speaker 2: quicker exactly. Yep.
Speaker 3: Searchers also had a decent idea of where to start looking,
Speaker 3: since George knew where he had last left her and
Speaker 3: when and where she was supposed to meet up with him,
Speaker 3: so at least they could have like narrowed down their
Speaker 3: search criteria. They were also able to get what is
Speaker 3: called and I'm not sure if it's called an exigent
Speaker 3: warrant or an exigent order, and again it might vary
Speaker 3: between different states, but basically, like the exigen order, they
Speaker 3: were able to get her cell phone data. Usually obtaining
Speaker 3: someone's cell phone data is a little bit more of
Speaker 3: a process, but in this situation it can literally mean
Speaker 3: life or death's death for somebody who's missing, So they
Speaker 3: were able to get her cell phone data a little
Speaker 3: bit quicker with then in other situations, which helped create
Speaker 3: that area to focus on, they were able to find
Speaker 3: out where her phone last pinged at least even though
Speaker 3: there was no service in that area. So heavy rains
Speaker 3: hit which made it difficult for the search dogs to
Speaker 3: tract scent also could have obscured any other like physical
Speaker 3: potential clues if there were any, And overall, it just
Speaker 3: made it difficult for the searchers to be out in
Speaker 3: the terrain in the woods with torrential downpours. Missing posters
Speaker 3: were hung, hikers were interviewed, and all tips were followed
Speaker 3: up on, and they searched for days. After twelve days
Speaker 3: of intense searches. Both authorities and her family knew they
Speaker 3: had scoured so much area. Smaller searches continued, but to
Speaker 3: no avail. Months later, another search, this time purely just
Speaker 3: a recovery search, was done and they found nothing.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Another recover research was done, I believe almost a year later,
Speaker 3: coming up on the anniversary of her disappearance, was done
Speaker 3: again just hoping to you know, bring closure to the family,
Speaker 3: just to know what happened. So you know, even though
Speaker 3: even by the time they had passed with the reusshold
Speaker 3: where you know, they thought that she was potentially alive,
Speaker 3: they didn't give up.
Speaker 2: They kept looking. That's so sad, Like could you imagine
Speaker 2: like you're hiking with her and you say, okay, meet
Speaker 2: you at the next checkpoint, and you never see her again.
Speaker 2: And it was supposed to be so routine with what
Speaker 2: you guys were doing, and everything was going fine, and
Speaker 2: then she just goes missing. And I cannot imagine how
Speaker 2: her husband must have felt. And then on top of that,
Speaker 2: then her family and her friends and heartbreaking.
Speaker 3: So tips continued to be called in from like all
Speaker 3: over the country, and authorities checked into them. Lots of
Speaker 3: This is a mistaken identity unfortunately, but police and the
Speaker 3: Warden Service they followed up on these things, which again
Speaker 3: I think just really shows everyone's commitment to finding out
Speaker 3: what happened, even if there was like far fetched. They're like,
Speaker 3: you know what, let's just run down this lead. If
Speaker 3: it's nothing, it's nothing. M They even had several tips
Speaker 3: called in for people claiming to be psychics, which were
Speaker 3: wildly unhelpful. And I'm not saying that there aren't potential
Speaker 3: true psychics out there, it's actually you and I have
Speaker 3: a cool story that maybe someday will figure out how to.
Speaker 2: How to incorporate into this how to share with the listeners.
Speaker 3: Yeah that involves a psychic or a medium. That's a
Speaker 3: pretty good story.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that was pretty crazy. Give pictures someone going
Speaker 2: out there and be like I'm sensing Greece, yeah you do,
Speaker 2: or sensing trees, and that was they'd go missing while
Speaker 2: she's hyking.
Speaker 3: That was a lot of they're like she's near a
Speaker 3: tree or eboulder, and it's like.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: So you know, these people just call in trash information
Speaker 3: mm hmm. Really is just like so disappointing because it's
Speaker 3: wasting money, wasting energy, wasting resources that could be used elsewhere.
Speaker 3: As time passed, rumors and conspiracy.
Speaker 2: Theories popped up. As they do.
Speaker 3: A big theory had to do with that Navy training facility.
Speaker 3: The Navy uses that area for its survival, evasion, resistance,
Speaker 3: and escape program. They utilize the extreme remoteness and difficult
Speaker 3: terrain to simulate being lost or trapped in the wilderness,
Speaker 3: presumably behind enemy lines, and doing all those things in
Speaker 3: the program's name survive, evade, resist, an escape.
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, pretty straightforward. I guess a little
Speaker 2: bit of sear training.
Speaker 3: Yes, So the theories were obviously baseless, but they all evolved.
Speaker 3: You know, the idea that the military was doing some shady,
Speaker 3: top secret stuff out there and that Jerry.
Speaker 2: Oh, they just took this elderly woman and we're life.
Speaker 2: You're perfect for our training program. You're an enemy now.
Speaker 2: So you know they were doing something, and you know,
Speaker 2: Jerry was just casualty for one reason or another, accidentally
Speaker 2: take her out while they're like.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting because where the property line is versus
Speaker 3: like where the trail is. I'm sure other people have
Speaker 3: like Inn Burtonley like wandered that right, and it doesn't.
Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds like, you know, the Navy keeps
Speaker 3: an eye on what's going on in the property, but
Speaker 3: it's not like fenced off or patrolled or you know,
Speaker 3: it's not it's not Area fifty one as far as
Speaker 3: security goes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, they probably do come across some
Speaker 2: people who have gone off trail a bit, and if anything,
Speaker 2: it helps because then they can help guide them back
Speaker 2: to where they're supposed to be. I can't imagine they
Speaker 2: just I'm not trying to laugh because this is terrible
Speaker 2: that she went missing, but this idea that he's just
Speaker 2: got taken out by this Navy training program, like they're
Speaker 2: going to do something to this to this woman who's
Speaker 2: just hiking and she can communicate and she'd probably say, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm lost. I'm supposed to be on the at right now. Right.
Speaker 2: She was also a previously an.
Speaker 3: Air Force nurse, so she was a veteran. So you know,
Speaker 3: I guess that doesn't exclude her from you know, top
Speaker 3: secret murder plots. I guess, but you know, personally I
Speaker 3: ruled out that theory pretty much. Other rumors included George
Speaker 3: Uh killing her. That's rude, It is rude. But again
Speaker 3: authorities had ruled him out really very quickly. They did,
Speaker 3: you know, look into that, but they were like, it's
Speaker 3: it's baseless. Another rumor that circulated and.
Speaker 2: Still seems to.
Speaker 3: Circulate a bit even now we know sort of what happened.
Speaker 3: People really got caught up on some of the medications
Speaker 3: she was taking, and.
Speaker 2: They really just like.
Speaker 3: Fixated on that's the reason she got lost, that the
Speaker 3: medication was somehow a contributing factor.
Speaker 2: But authorities happened to know what kind of medication she
Speaker 2: was on.
Speaker 3: I believe it was uh ol praslam. So if it
Speaker 3: was not autroprisaline, which I believe it was, it's somebody
Speaker 3: that's commonly prescribed for anxiety or trouble sleeping.
Speaker 2: So it's okay.
Speaker 3: It is something that's very commonly prescribed and utilized without
Speaker 3: you know, typically scary side effects. It wasn't a new
Speaker 3: medication for her and her authorities contacted her doctor and
Speaker 3: they were like, no, that's not a contributing factor. Her
Speaker 3: friend Jane Lee, who had you know, liked the beginning
Speaker 3: portion of the trail. She also said it was a
Speaker 3: non issue, Like it sounds like Gary used whatever it
Speaker 3: was to help her sleep, so again, probably not.
Speaker 2: Any influence on Yeah, it doesn't sound like it.
Speaker 3: So another theory was that she may have fallen victim
Speaker 3: to foul play by a stranger, and that has happened before,
Speaker 3: as we talked about earlier. So although there was no
Speaker 3: evidence pointing in that direction, it was a plausible theory honestly, because.
Speaker 2: Well, look at all the foot traffic along the trail.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously the majority of people all have the
Speaker 2: best of intentions of being there, and usually the crowd
Speaker 2: that the at attracts are good natured people. They're kind,
Speaker 2: But of course that's never an absolute in any large
Speaker 2: group of people, so you are going to have the exceptions.
Speaker 2: And it's not entirely out of the question that she
Speaker 2: was met with foul play out there. With that at
Speaker 2: that point was speculation, and.
Speaker 3: I think the longer they searched without any evidence or
Speaker 3: signs of her, I think more that played in a
Speaker 3: little bit, because they did do very thorough searches. So
Speaker 3: I think, you know, at some point people were like,
Speaker 3: they've looked, we've looked be here. Something must have happened.
Speaker 3: Somebody must have taken her, you know, out of the area.
Speaker 3: That's why we're not finding anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In October of twenty fifteen, more than two.
Speaker 3: Years since Jerry was last seen, a report of a
Speaker 3: body found was made by either a surveyor or a
Speaker 3: forestry worker. A team was assembled again with state Police,
Speaker 3: the main warden Service, people from the State Medical Examiner's Office,
Speaker 3: and a film crew for the show at Northwards Law.
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen that show? Oh my god, I
Speaker 2: love that show. I used to want to do that.
Speaker 2: It was like the perfect combination of law enforcement, which
Speaker 2: is what I used to do in the Air Force,
Speaker 2: and being in the wilderness and I really wanted to
Speaker 2: do that for a while. Well, you could have done it,
Speaker 2: I come.
Speaker 3: I have heard people talk about the show like over
Speaker 3: the years, but I've never seen it. I'm sure shocks
Speaker 3: no one, no one that knows you anyway, right, Apparently,
Speaker 3: and apparently sixty five episodes were took place in New Hampshire,
Speaker 3: following Fish and Game Officers, which you all probably already
Speaker 3: know since you you've seen it.
Speaker 2: I think what's cool about that show for anyone from
Speaker 2: our area who's watching it is just being able to
Speaker 2: actually be familiar with the places that they are. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's always fine, any show that you're watching, if
Speaker 2: you if it's set where you are, and it's kind
Speaker 2: of kind of makes it a little cooler.
Speaker 3: There's an episode of Deadly Women, that show that features
Speaker 3: a killer from my town, and I remember watching it
Speaker 3: and being like, that's my town hall, that's this place.
Speaker 3: Of course it is, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Like exactly, it's it's weird, It's it kind of connects
Speaker 2: you to like what is otherwise, just when you're so
Speaker 2: far removed from what you're watching on TV, and then
Speaker 2: when you're actually seeing things that you've seen in person
Speaker 2: or places you've been to in person, and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is weird. Now, yeah, you have a different perspective. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: So some of the wardens originally involved in the search
Speaker 2: for Jerry were involved with that show, which is why
Speaker 2: they were happened to have a film crew on hand
Speaker 2: that day. Wow.
Speaker 3: The team went out to the coordinates they had been
Speaker 3: given and found a collapse tent with skeleton remains inside
Speaker 3: a sleeping bag, and it sounds like everyone essentially knew
Speaker 3: immediately Jerry had finally been found. In searching the scene,
Speaker 3: they found her journal in a sealed plastic bag where
Speaker 3: she had detailed what had happened. They also retrieved her
Speaker 3: cell phone, where they eventually were able to find several
Speaker 3: unsuccessful attempts to send texts and calls. On July twenty third,
Speaker 3: which was the day she was supposed to meet up
Speaker 3: with George but didn't, she had tried to call him,
Speaker 3: and she did attempt to send a text, which obviously
Speaker 3: never went through, saying, in some trouble, got off trail
Speaker 3: to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 2: Now lost.
Speaker 3: Can you call AMC to see if trail maintainer can
Speaker 3: help me somewhere north of Woods Road xox.
Speaker 2: Oh no, that's so sad.
Speaker 3: So she tried to send that a couple times. The
Speaker 3: following day, she said another unsuccessful message, saying, Boston's yesterday
Speaker 3: off trail three to four miles. Call police for what
Speaker 3: to do? Please xox. And just like reading that or
Speaker 3: hearing those texts, like, despite being in a terrible situation,
Speaker 3: her texts and journal entries honestly sound like very sweet
Speaker 3: and calm and.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like in everyday little situations, we can very
Speaker 2: easily work ourselves up. And for her, and what was
Speaker 2: truly a life or death situation for her, she just
Speaker 2: kept her composure, and like you said, her texts were
Speaker 2: so almost came off casual and she wasn't frantic. She didn't.
Speaker 2: She probably could have been frantic, but she certainly didn't
Speaker 2: convey that through her text and I imagine she probably
Speaker 2: didn't want to panic George either.
Speaker 3: Right, so, and again keeping George in mind, they also
Speaker 3: found that she had cut up her bank cards and
Speaker 3: buried them. So totally speculation on everybody's part, but they
Speaker 3: think when she resigned herself to the fact she wasn't
Speaker 3: going to be found alive, she didn't want somebody to
Speaker 3: get a hold of her cards and cause more problems
Speaker 3: for George. So they think she cut them up and
Speaker 3: buried them to you know, oh my goodness, getting in
Speaker 3: somebody else's hands, which is like so so sad, so
Speaker 3: but also so like beautifully practical, like right right, you know.
Speaker 3: And here's where it gets extra heartbreaking, no, it already is.
Speaker 3: Although the camp site was in a densely wooded area,
Speaker 3: she was less than two miles from the trail, oh
Speaker 3: my god, and only about sixty yards south of where
Speaker 3: her tent was set.
Speaker 2: The woods thinned out.
Speaker 3: To where she could have been seen from the air
Speaker 3: and then only about twenty to twenty five minutes hike
Speaker 3: from that open area was a totally open logging road.
Speaker 3: So although her camp site was practically invisible a few
Speaker 3: feet away, she was so close to civilization. Search dogs
Speaker 3: had come within one hundred yards of the camp site,
Speaker 3: but they didn't indicate they smelled anything, and no one
Speaker 3: spotted her tent. So not only did they bring out
Speaker 3: search dogs in the initial searches, but in some of
Speaker 3: those recovery searches they had had cadaver dogs and nobody
Speaker 3: seemed to.
Speaker 2: Pick up on it. Wow.
Speaker 3: They also determined that she had tried to set fires
Speaker 3: for getting attention, not like a casual okay, I guess
Speaker 3: when you're lost in the wood. Nothing as casual, but
Speaker 3: as opposed to like a camp fire. So very little
Speaker 3: of her journal has been released publicly, so it's hard
Speaker 3: to know, you know, are people just making assumptions based
Speaker 3: on the information we have, or was there more information
Speaker 3: in those journals that maybe she said, I tried to
Speaker 3: set this tree on fire, you know, to get attention,
Speaker 3: but worried it would spread. They seemed to think that
Speaker 3: that was her concern, that she didn't want to create
Speaker 3: a fire that was going to get out of control.
Speaker 3: So again very practical, thinking about more than just herself.
Speaker 3: So in her journal she did detail that she had
Speaker 3: spent two days wandering around trying to move to higher
Speaker 3: ground to get oriented or best case scenario, get cell
Speaker 3: phone service before she decided to stay put. She also
Speaker 3: tried to use a miler blanket she had to signal
Speaker 3: for help, and she also used I believe it was
Speaker 3: like a red fleece to you know, try and get attention.
Speaker 3: She did write in her journal that she was able
Speaker 3: to hear like the aircraft searching, so oh my god,
Speaker 3: So she knew that that people were looking for her,
Speaker 3: but you know, she just wasn't in an area that
Speaker 3: she was able to be seen.
Speaker 2: And think about it. For us, who can look at
Speaker 2: Google maps, or look at an aerial you or look
Speaker 2: at a map, it's so easy for us to say, oh,
Speaker 2: wish she was only sixty yards from here. She was
Speaker 2: less than two miles from here. But when you are
Speaker 2: there at ground level, in the thick of it, like,
Speaker 2: you don't know if ahead of you is hundreds of
Speaker 2: acres of wilderness and behind you is a logging road
Speaker 2: because it all looks the same, So there's no way
Speaker 2: of knowing which direction you should head toward, because you
Speaker 2: don't have that same advantage as someone sitting comfortably here,
Speaker 2: like at our desks, looking at a map. Right.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you know the phrase you can't
Speaker 3: see the forest through the trees, which obviously is utilized
Speaker 3: in a totally different context usually, but like, this is
Speaker 3: exactly it. And several sources talked about how when they
Speaker 3: did find her campsite, when you step back only a
Speaker 3: few feet, people couldn't even see it, So it really was.
Speaker 2: Just that dense.
Speaker 3: Wow, I like I had said a couple of minutes
Speaker 3: ago that only a few sections of her journal were released.
Speaker 3: One of the sections that had been released was an
Speaker 3: entry from August sixth, She wrote, when do you find
Speaker 3: my body, Please call my husband George and daughter Carrie.
Speaker 3: It will be the greatest kindness for them to know
Speaker 3: that I am dead and where you found me. No
Speaker 3: matter how many years from now, please find it in
Speaker 3: your heart to mail the contents of this bag to
Speaker 3: one of them. So entries continued until August eighteenth. No
Speaker 3: one can know for sure if the dates were accurate,
Speaker 3: because again, you know, she was just in the Woods,
Speaker 3: So at some point her cellphone had died, so it
Speaker 3: you know, was she keeping accurate time? Who knows, But
Speaker 3: based on those dated entries, if those are accurate, she
Speaker 3: survived at least twenty six days before dying of starvation
Speaker 3: and exposure.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: So the rest of the journal presumably includes extremely personal
Speaker 3: letters to friends and family. Yeah, her family spoke publicly
Speaker 3: thinking all involved in the search for Jerry and George
Speaker 3: had indicated that not knowing was the hardest part. So
Speaker 3: I think, just as Jerry's note said, her family did
Speaker 3: have some peace knowing what happened and just finding her
Speaker 3: her body and just being able to, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of have some closure.
Speaker 2: To bring her home. Yeah. I did find it hard
Speaker 2: to believe.
Speaker 3: I mean, I believe it, but I did find it
Speaker 3: strange that both search and cadaver dogs came so close
Speaker 3: to her camp site.
Speaker 2: Not for a lack of effort, but that's so frustrating because,
Speaker 2: like you said, they were so close, like two different
Speaker 2: sets of dogs, and you always wonder what if, like
Speaker 2: what if they found her, what if they got there sooner?
Speaker 3: But and the other thing is, you know, she had
Speaker 3: indicated that she heard like the aircraft looking for her.
Speaker 3: So it is surprising that, because we know searchers came
Speaker 3: very close, that she didn't hear them. So, you know,
Speaker 3: some thought is you know, later on in, you know,
Speaker 3: several days into the search, you know, she may have
Speaker 3: been you know, too weak or dehydrated to you know,
Speaker 3: respond in a way that they'd be able to hear her.
Speaker 3: But you know, there wasn't a delay in starting to
Speaker 3: look for her. So I'm just surprised that, you know,
Speaker 3: within the first couple of days before you know, things
Speaker 3: had physically taken a toll on her, that you know,
Speaker 3: they weren't able to hear each other, or you know,
Speaker 3: she wasn't able to hear them. So I did read
Speaker 3: the book titled When You Find My Body. I do
Speaker 3: recommend it, although I felt like the author makes a
Speaker 3: lot of assumptions on what Jerry might have been thinking
Speaker 3: or feeling during her time lost. I know that the
Speaker 3: author did do interviews with her friends and family and
Speaker 3: authorities involved in the case, but I couldn't find anywhere
Speaker 3: if the family had given him access to read.
Speaker 2: The full journal.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, So if he did have access, then maybe
Speaker 3: some of these things he wrote were actually things that
Speaker 3: Jerry had expressed in that journal, and you know he
Speaker 3: wasn't taking you know, artistic license with assuming what she
Speaker 3: was feeling or thinking. But I couldn't find anywhere for
Speaker 3: sure knowing if he had access to more than the
Speaker 3: public did or not beyond beyond the interviews. Right, he
Speaker 3: definitely did interviews, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: Look, he had more insight than just the public in general. Right.
Speaker 3: So, despite the appellation trail being clearly marked and a
Speaker 3: very well maintained trail, despite jury being well prepared, and
Speaker 3: despite this being Nain's large dismissing person's search, it still
Speaker 3: ended in tragedy. Sometimes it's easy to underestimate how easy
Speaker 3: it really can be to get turned around the woods,
Speaker 3: and if you're unlucky enough to also not have self service,
Speaker 3: it can definitely get dire quick if you do get lost.
Speaker 3: The US four Service says you should do the followings.
Speaker 3: A little podcast pe perfect So Forest Service tells us
Speaker 3: you should stop as soon as you realize you may
Speaker 3: be lost. Stop, stay calm, stay put. Panic is your
Speaker 3: greatest enemy. Think, go over your mind, how you got
Speaker 3: to where you are? What landmarks should you be able
Speaker 3: to see? Do not move at all until you have
Speaker 3: a specific reason to take a step. Observe, get out
Speaker 3: your compass and determine the directions based on where you
Speaker 3: are standing. Do not walk aimlessly. If you were on
Speaker 3: a trail, stay on it as the very last resort.
Speaker 3: Follow a drainage or stream downhill. This is often a
Speaker 3: difficult path, but could lead to a trail a road again,
Speaker 3: this could be dangerous. Plan based on your thinking and observations.
Speaker 3: Come up with some possible plans, think them through, then
Speaker 3: act on one of them. If you are not very
Speaker 3: very confident in the root, then it's better to stay put.
Speaker 3: If it's nightfall or you're injured or near exhaustion, stay
Speaker 3: in place so They also list a couple almost it
Speaker 3: self serve self rescue tips if after careful planning and consideration,
Speaker 3: you decide you should try to rescue yourself. Here are
Speaker 3: some tips to remember. Stop and rest when you start
Speaker 3: to feel tired. Don't wait until you're exhausted. Your body
Speaker 3: can't hike hard and digest food at the same time.
Speaker 3: Rest in the shade for at least thirty minutes when
Speaker 3: you stop to eat. If you're still tired after thirty minutes,
Speaker 3: continue to rest make sure to drink enough water to
Speaker 3: avoid dehydration. Symptoms of dehydration could include thirst, dry sticky mouth,
Speaker 3: not urining very much or dark yellow urine, dry cool skin, headache,
Speaker 3: and muscle gramps. Stop and fix small problems while they
Speaker 3: are still small.
Speaker 2: I like that one.
Speaker 3: Actually, if you ignore your body and keep pushing, the
Speaker 3: pain or illness will only get worse and make recovery
Speaker 3: margin occult. Avoid hiking between ten and four pm on
Speaker 3: hot days, so yes, adjust your hiking pace to one
Speaker 3: you can comfortably maintain, and rest when you feel the need.
Speaker 3: So definitely, just a couple of things to keep in mind.
Speaker 3: I think we you know, sitting at home or you know,
Speaker 3: when we're not in the moment. These are all things
Speaker 3: that were like, well, yeah, of course, but I think
Speaker 3: if you let that panic or stress take over, it's
Speaker 3: very easy to forget these very simple things. So just
Speaker 3: doesn't hurt to reiterate them.
Speaker 2: They're all good friendly reminders because, like you said, it's
Speaker 2: easy right here to say, well, duh, but if you're
Speaker 2: in the moment, panicking could take the situation from being
Speaker 2: manageable to now becoming more of like an emergency.
Speaker 3: So Derry was friendly and kind, leaving a warm impression
Speaker 3: with anyone she met. You know, they had interviewed a
Speaker 3: lot of hikers along the trail, and you know, she
Speaker 3: had interacted with a lot of people in her time
Speaker 3: out there, and everybody just had great things to say
Speaker 3: about her.
Speaker 2: And it sounds like.
Speaker 3: Even in those short exchanges along the trail, you know,
Speaker 3: she left an impact on those people who were essentially
Speaker 3: strangers until they met for that brief time. So she's
Speaker 3: absolutely deeply messed by all who knew her, and for
Speaker 3: the rest of us, her death is a cautionary reminder
Speaker 3: to stay on the trail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a really sad one because she was
Speaker 2: just doing something so normal on the trail, which is
Speaker 2: just stepping away to relieve herself, and there was no
Speaker 2: way of knowing the gradual consequences that that would have.
Speaker 3: And because I had like shared some of these if
Speaker 3: you get lost tips with my child because I thought
Speaker 3: that was a good opportunity, a good learning opportunity. He then,
Speaker 3: you know, had to tell me that his adventure backpack
Speaker 3: didn't have a whistle, so I had to order a
Speaker 3: multi pack of safety whistles. So if you need a
Speaker 3: whistle for your hiking bag. I have six of them,
Speaker 3: so let me know what color you want.
Speaker 2: That's actually really smart of him notice to pick that
Speaker 2: out and say, hey, this one's missing from my pack.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and it's funny because I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: like you know, pretty much all hiking packs have have
Speaker 3: that whistle on the strap. But then I look at
Speaker 3: mine and I'm like, there's no whistle on here.
Speaker 2: My previous one.
Speaker 3: Had a whistle, but this cheap one that I had
Speaker 3: to replace because I ruined my expensive one did not
Speaker 3: come with a whistle.
Speaker 2: Well, very good observation, little man. Yep.
Speaker 3: So that's your takeaway for tonight. Everybody's homework. Go make
Speaker 3: sure your day pack or your hiking pack or your
Speaker 3: adventure bag as my kid likes to call it, and
Speaker 3: has that safety I don't know it's called safety whistle.
Speaker 3: I don't know that's what I'm calling it.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for sharing that really tragic story.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I am now looking forward to hearing a different
Speaker 3: Appalachian trail tail next week.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's kind of funny that we both chose
Speaker 2: one without knowing each other's story. So yeah, next week
Speaker 2: we will be talking about another tragedy on the trail.
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good.
Speaker 3: It is bedtime for us early early risers, early to
Speaker 3: bed people.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, these days four thirty comes early, so oh
Speaker 2: it does. Yeah. Well, thank you for listening, all right bye.
Speaker 1: Make it an eye to our own research and try
Speaker 1: our best across reference reliable sources to presenting most accurate
Speaker 1: information we can. Please reach out to us at Off
Speaker 1: the Trails Podcasts at gmail dot com if you believe
Speaker 1: we have misrepresented any information during this episode, and we'll
Speaker 1: be happy to correct ourselves in a future episode.
Speaker 2: And with that being said, if you enjoyed this episode,
Speaker 2: please rate and review us because this feedback helps to
Speaker 2: continue improving the show for you while giving us a
Speaker 2: larger platform to reach more listeners. Follow us on Instagram
Speaker 2: at Off the Trails Podcasts, where we share episode details
Speaker 2: and some fun behind the scenes content, and most importantly,
Speaker 2: we get to interact with you. And if you really
Speaker 2: like the show, for as little as three dollars a month,
Speaker 2: you can subscribe to our Patreon, where we have lots
Speaker 2: of great benefits for you to enjoy.