1 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Really welcome to the show. 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here. 3 00:00:15,919 --> 00:00:17,719 Speaker 1: Yes, I think this is a third time. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,039 Speaker 2: I think it is. 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is the third time, maybe, Yeah, And it's 6 00:00:21,719 --> 00:00:23,760 always good to see. I had a really pleasant time 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,320 with you at the James Fox event when we went 8 00:00:26,359 --> 00:00:28,640 to the restaurant afterwards and all, yeah. 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,679 Speaker 4: We had a good time. That was an extraordinary event. 10 00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:37,200 James is bringing of the Doctor to that event, and 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,600 the first time he had ever spoken about the experience 12 00:00:42,759 --> 00:00:48,399 of doing a surgery on an alien was just incredible. 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: It was incredible, and it was. 14 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:56,759 Speaker 3: So authentic, and yeah, he's not lying emotionally, he really 15 00:00:56,759 --> 00:00:59,119 got emotional over the whole thing. And I got to 16 00:00:59,119 --> 00:01:02,240 speak with him after and asked him what he felt 17 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,680 about this being and he got very emotional and teared up, 18 00:01:06,719 --> 00:01:09,239 And you know what I mean. I don't think anyone 19 00:01:09,239 --> 00:01:10,000 can make up that. 20 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:15,519 Speaker 4: Something that came out in Roger Lear's book of the Alien. 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,040 I believe it his book about his experience in Virginia. 22 00:01:20,359 --> 00:01:24,040 He went down there and he interviewed these doctors, but 23 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:27,319 they wouldn't allow him to use their names, so I'm 24 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,439 not absolutely certain which one said the particular thing I'm going. 25 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:32,799 Speaker 2: To talk about but. 26 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:38,159 Speaker 4: The alien at one point filled the room with a 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:43,120 kind of a green haze, and at that point the doctor, 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,519 who was getting ready to set his leg, could hear 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:53,280 him telepathically, and he said that his people were sad 30 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,319 for Earth, for us because we had lost the powers 31 00:01:58,359 --> 00:02:03,680 that they still have, and that those powers are things 32 00:02:03,719 --> 00:02:09,280 like telepathy, instantaneous movement from place to place. One of 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,840 them once said to me, a distance is an illusion, 34 00:02:13,439 --> 00:02:18,280 and such things. So it was quite extraordinary and it 35 00:02:18,879 --> 00:02:22,800 formed the center of my book, The Fourth Mind, because 36 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,479 if we didn't say we didn't have them, he said 37 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,639 we had lost them. And that's a very significant difference, 38 00:02:32,199 --> 00:02:34,599 meaning why did we lose them? 39 00:02:35,439 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 2: Where did they go? What happened to us? Are we 40 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:39,719 broken in some way? 41 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 4: And to me, I think the answer is yes we are. 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,199 Were we attacked and stripped of these powers? Was it 43 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,840 just nature that did it? 44 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: And if so, how? 45 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 4: And I think that the most likely explanation is it 46 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:03,280 was a natural catastrophe called the younger Dryas, and the 47 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,879 two dryas is the older Dryas where the ice age 48 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,879 began to end, and the younger Dryas where it became 49 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:17,199 a catastrophic change in the planet. And during this catastrophe, 50 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,400 the number of human beings on Earth dropped massively. And 51 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,919 I think that before that was when we were able 52 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,120 to do things like build the pyramids, the fortress at 53 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:39,120 Soks of Woman, those incredible monoliths at Aman Maadal Albeck stones, 54 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,080 all that engineering. That engineering is real and it's there 55 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:48,080 on the ground. No matter what the conventional archaeologists say, 56 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:50,800 what kind of cock and bowl explanation they come up 57 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,639 with to make it sense, to make it make sense 58 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,360 in their belief system, it doesn't make sense in their 59 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:58,919 belief system period. 60 00:03:59,199 --> 00:03:59,919 Speaker 2: None of it does. 61 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, they calls into question whether we had something. 62 00:04:04,199 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: And I have thought this too. 63 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,479 Speaker 3: There has been around a while, and some things could 64 00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:12,800 get wiped out, some knowledge or whatever by vulcanization or 65 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,639 whatever it is. It's been around so long that things 66 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,600 could re establish in a different way. I asked doctor 67 00:04:19,639 --> 00:04:22,319 Michael Masters about when he says we're coming back from 68 00:04:22,319 --> 00:04:24,800 the future, that's his theory, and I said, what if 69 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,800 it's another species that evolves and the way into the 70 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,639 future that's coming back when he's not a bad thought. 71 00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: That's possible, of course, because right now, what I know. 72 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 4: Of the bodies that we have here now of the 73 00:04:38,639 --> 00:04:40,680 dead aliens. 74 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,879 Speaker 2: When we have a few depends on who you talk to. 75 00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:48,519 Speaker 4: I know that we have three because people close to 76 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,519 me channel Arthur Exen was a family friend and very involved. 77 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 2: In this in the early days at right Field. 78 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,879 Speaker 4: Told me we did, and I believe there were for 79 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,160 detric in Maryland, and they may still be there for 80 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:07,439 all I know, unless they've been tossed out by the 81 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,519 many people involved in this who shouldn't be, who don't 82 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,680 understand its significance and haven't got the imagination to realize 83 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,319 that this is about the change of mankind from one 84 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:20,279 thing to another. 85 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 3: Now that goes, he goes all the way back to 86 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,120 talking about Roswell, doesn't he? 87 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: He was, Yeah, I'll tell you how I know him. Yeah. 88 00:05:28,319 --> 00:05:29,639 My uncle Mickey. 89 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 4: Was an Air Force officer at right Field, attached I believe, 90 00:05:37,079 --> 00:05:40,439 to the Air Materiel Command in nineteen forty seven, and 91 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,000 so was Arthur Exen at that time a colonel. I 92 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,120 believe it may have been that he was still a major. 93 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,839 I'm not sure, but in any case, the debris and 94 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,920 the bodies were brought in there and a General Twining 95 00:05:56,319 --> 00:06:00,240 as the head of Air Materiel, and he had just 96 00:06:00,319 --> 00:06:05,160 recently converted to Catholicism after seeing Padre Pio Lepitate in Italy. 97 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,040 So that was that's an unknown story, but it's quite true. 98 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:11,759 It's certainly a family not a family story, but it's 99 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,040 certainly something art Exit was well aware of. In any case, 100 00:06:16,079 --> 00:06:20,639 my uncle, after I published Communion, called me up and said, 101 00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:23,399 why don't you come down to Lackland where he was 102 00:06:23,439 --> 00:06:28,160 at the retirement community there and you can. I'd like 103 00:06:28,199 --> 00:06:31,720 to talk to you about something. And he was very secretive. 104 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,399 His entire career in was in Air Force intelligence, and 105 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,839 he was seconded to the Atomic Energy Commission right after 106 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,160 in nineteen fifty two and. 107 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 2: Remained there all of his career. 108 00:06:44,319 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 4: And I understand now that researchers are saying that all 109 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:52,439 of the UFO stuff went to the AEC from air 110 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,240 material l and he never said this because he was 111 00:06:55,319 --> 00:06:59,120 really very close mouthed, but maybe he worked on this 112 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:00,920 a lot more even then, I know. 113 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:04,399 Speaker 2: Let me put it that way. 114 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 4: I went down there with my wife and he and 115 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,720 his wife my dear aunt. They're both passed now, and 116 00:07:11,839 --> 00:07:15,199 I had lunch, and at lunch, Mickey told me about 117 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:19,319 his experiences at right Field when the debris was brought in, 118 00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:22,639 and he said, at one point I stuck my head 119 00:07:23,199 --> 00:07:26,519 in the thing that we had, and it looked like 120 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,560 a big kite and it was torn up in the 121 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,839 side and there was nothing in it. 122 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:33,959 Speaker 2: There was no. 123 00:07:33,879 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 4: Propulsion system, nothing, And yet we knew from the radars 124 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,439 how it had been functioning, and it was just incredibly 125 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:42,439 mysterious to them. 126 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: And it was even made. 127 00:07:45,439 --> 00:07:49,959 Speaker 4: The interior was held rigid by balsa. 128 00:07:48,879 --> 00:07:50,959 Speaker 2: But here's the. 129 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 4: Thing about the bolshood, like this very thin layer of 130 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:01,480 metal which has been so important in in metallurgy ever 131 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:05,639 since it was found. A balsa wood was impregnable. You 132 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:07,639 couldn't do anything to it. You couldn't burn it, you 133 00:08:07,639 --> 00:08:10,600 couldn't break it, you couldn't shoot a hole in it. 134 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,720 It was all like that. It was just the most 135 00:08:12,759 --> 00:08:17,519 extraordinary thing. But the thing that was so interesting to 136 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,879 me was no propulsion system. And at the time I 137 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,839 was mystified. Now I know that the beings themselves, or 138 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:30,600 the propulsion system in any case, they brought this in. 139 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:34,279 They brought the bodies in, or a couple of bodies, 140 00:08:34,279 --> 00:08:36,759 And I did not ever hear this from either of them. 141 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 2: But a General. 142 00:08:38,399 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 4: Twining's son said that one of them was still alive, 143 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:46,080 and it communicated with general trying, and it said that 144 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,720 they weren't interested in human beings. 145 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 2: And in other words, one of. 146 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 4: The first things we ever heard from them was also 147 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,159 the first lie. And we have to remember that they 148 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,440 lie a lot. We've got to be very careful about this. 149 00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:03,360 It's not all sreetness and life. It's a complicated, difficult 150 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,279 experience that we can get a hello, a lot out 151 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,120 of to the point where our world can change in 152 00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:13,440 a positive way for us if we are careful, right. 153 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: And let's a struggle. 154 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,919 Speaker 4: A lot of us are not careful when I say 155 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,399 not careful, people that draw conclusions before it's time that 156 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,320 they're angels, that they're demons. Is there anything to do 157 00:09:27,039 --> 00:09:32,080 with our belief systems from the past. Forget I've been 158 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,080 with them, and believe me, if they've been here for 159 00:09:35,159 --> 00:09:39,320 a million years or something, they're absolute morons because they 160 00:09:39,399 --> 00:09:45,879 don't understand us at all. They react to me like 161 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:49,440 someone who is trying to figure out the most basic 162 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:57,120 things about what I am. And I think that probably NHI, 163 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,840 non human intelligence has has come here many times, and 164 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,279 we have a record of that in our mythology. 165 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: But these people, I think literally came. 166 00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 4: Here recently and they have a history of knowledge of us, 167 00:10:14,039 --> 00:10:18,320 but no direct experience of us. That's until recently. Otherwise 168 00:10:19,759 --> 00:10:21,639 they don't. Something's not way. 169 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: Off about them. 170 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: Wow, very interesting. 171 00:10:24,519 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: So I'm going to try not to be too long winded. 172 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,919 But there was something I told you that I wanted 173 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,080 to tell you and I haven't been able to tell you, 174 00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:36,279 and that is years ago. Several years ago, about twenty 175 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:42,320 twelve or thirteen, I interviewed both Jack Wiener and Charlie 176 00:10:42,879 --> 00:10:47,679 Foltz that were two people from the Aligash incident up 177 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,480 in me which is very people can look it up. 178 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,399 Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy eight. I believe it happened. 179 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,399 Speaker 3: And so basically the story is they're out in the canoe, 180 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,000 they set a great big bonfire and then and this 181 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:01,960 thing comes over them. 182 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: Charlie that was a flashlight at him. 183 00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 3: Next thing a ron back to shore and they look 184 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,639 over and there's embers on the ground the camp. The 185 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,200 fire had burned down and they didn't realize about the 186 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,639 missing time. So anyway, Jack was working in construction and 187 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,919 he walked through a door but didn't realize the floor 188 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,360 was out he fell down into the basement and was 189 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,919 injured severely. He was in the hospital for months and 190 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:32,120 months to recover, almost killed him. So they were he 191 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,919 was reading books to keep himself busy. Your book Communion 192 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,320 was on the top of the. 193 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,919 Speaker 1: Cart when the woman came in with it. 194 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,039 Speaker 3: He saw it, and all of a sudden, he had 195 00:11:45,039 --> 00:11:48,720 a flashback of the whole thing. Your book is why 196 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:52,120 the Allagash incident is a big part of it. Why 197 00:11:52,159 --> 00:11:55,440 that Communion is why, all of a sudden it came 198 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,759 back to him. He started talking to the other guys 199 00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:02,559 and then they all got and everything, their story all 200 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,519 came out because of looking at that image in your book. 201 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:08,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, that book. 202 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 4: I did not know this would happen at the time. 203 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,440 I wish I could say that I was some kind 204 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,840 of genius prophet, but I'm not. I just had the 205 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:23,960 picture painted the way I remembered seeing this, and that 206 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:30,399 triggered millions of people, yes, to remember incidents like that. 207 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're not the only one. I've heard other 208 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:33,080 people tell me. 209 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, many people. 210 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 4: In other words, the book was the book that triggered 211 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,480 our memories of contact. And that's amazing to me. If 212 00:12:44,519 --> 00:12:46,159 I'd known that I don't know what I would have 213 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,840 done when I was just as well. I did not 214 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,799 know that what happened. But my wife knew it from 215 00:12:51,799 --> 00:12:55,080 the very beginning. She knew exactly what would happened. That's 216 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,919 why she called the book communion. She said, it's not 217 00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:02,799 about Terrory, it's about a new way of life. But yeah, 218 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,159 the book did that, and it still doesn't for people 219 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,440 because you look at that cover and it changes everything. 220 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,759 Speaker 3: So I have to tell you, I'm sorry that was 221 00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:16,840 Jim Jim Wiener, not Jack Wiener. But I will tell 222 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:20,240 you what Jack Wiener had to say, not about your book, 223 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:22,480 but I think you're going to find it interesting, as 224 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,720 he felt as though he was visited after and with 225 00:13:25,799 --> 00:13:31,000 a being, and the being supposedly showed him a constellation 226 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,279 and said, we're up near here, and the highest intelligence 227 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,639 that we know of in the universe is over here. 228 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,759 And the reason they became this high intelligence was through 229 00:13:41,879 --> 00:13:42,879 unconditional love. 230 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: I know that sounds so bizarre. 231 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 4: No, it's not bizarre at all. I understand it very well. 232 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,879 Only there's that we have. Something has happened to that 233 00:13:53,159 --> 00:13:57,320 phrase on Earth. It's become identified with a kind of 234 00:13:58,159 --> 00:14:01,960 all accepting sentimental love, and that's not what. 235 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: It's it is. 236 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:06,879 Speaker 4: It's it would be much better to call it objective love. 237 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,279 And I will tell you where you find it. In 238 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:15,279 the universe there is There are numerous constants in physics, 239 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,120 the plank constant, the closest to things can be together 240 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,440 without merging, and various other constants, the moment constant, different constants. 241 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,519 There's one called the fine structure constant. And stay with me. 242 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,960 I know I'm going down a path that you didn't expect. 243 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:35,799 The fine structure constant is one one thirty seventh and 244 00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:41,159 that distance the whole universe is structure depends on that. 245 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,039 If that was a different number, everything would be different, 246 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:51,480 and many physicists believe life wouldn't even be possible in 247 00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:58,039 the universe. Now here's the fascinating thing about this. We 248 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,960 know the origin of all the constance except one that constant. 249 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: It's arbitrary. 250 00:15:04,879 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 4: It's a decision made by some kind of invisible presence. 251 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,759 Speaker 2: It's not an accident. It random. It can't be. 252 00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 4: It's too precise and too essential. There you find the 253 00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:24,879 urge to being that began this universe. I like to 254 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,159 say God suddenly realized it wasn't there. 255 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,799 Speaker 2: That's what created. 256 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 4: It, and that is that constant is an expression not 257 00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:42,159 of a sentimental love, but of an objective love, the 258 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,320 urgency toward being. And this is what that intelligence will 259 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,320 teach you if you ask them. 260 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,799 Speaker 1: Very interesting, certainly. 261 00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:54,679 Speaker 3: Think about what things would be like if we accepted 262 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,320 each other on this planet, totally accepted each other without ego. 263 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: Would be a whole different way. 264 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,799 Speaker 3: And I feel I'm getting off track here, but I 265 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,799 feel like worse than a. 266 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: Bottleneck at this point. 267 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm scaring in that that's with technology, with 268 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,399 AI and with everything, well, we make it through socially 269 00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:17,159 enough with to not blow ourselves up. That's a scary point. 270 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,480 I think that we're heading toward. 271 00:16:21,159 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 4: The busies like us, who are deep in the time 272 00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:30,200 stream and in very thick bodies usually don't make it 273 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,360 for a lot. But there's another whole level of reality 274 00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:37,759 and a whole level of experience waiting for us beyond 275 00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:42,600 this level. And we'll go into that level like babies 276 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:46,000 being born, screaming and yelling, but we'll find a new 277 00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:49,879 life there and then that's the beginning of that is 278 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:51,240 unfolding right now. 279 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,279 Speaker 3: So I want to know a little bit. I don't 280 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,759 know if anyone's asked you, but what was your childhood like? 281 00:16:57,919 --> 00:16:58,759 Where did you grow up? 282 00:16:58,759 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: And you were from time. 283 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,079 Speaker 4: From San Antonio, Texas, and I had a wonderful childhood. 284 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:09,079 I was an absolutely wild child, I really was, and 285 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,440 I was not malicious in any way, but I was 286 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:18,119 very inventive and often ended up doing things that were 287 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,440 really annoying to my parents. 288 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:23,759 Speaker 2: And give you an example. 289 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,799 Speaker 4: In the summer, I used to buy firecrackers, and I 290 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,359 bought lots of firecrackers. 291 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: We were not born. 292 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 4: I got a fifty cent a week allowance, which was 293 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,039 a big allowance in the nineteen fifties, and I bought 294 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,680 skyrockets and Roman candles and all kinds of firecrackers, and 295 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,759 I would be blowing them off. And one August, Daddy said, Weidley, 296 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:47,319 I don't want to hear another explosion anywhere near my 297 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,319 house for the rest of the year. You throw all 298 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,759 those fireworks out. And I thought, I can't throw my 299 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,799 fireworks out. I've gotten dollar's worth of fireworks here, and 300 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:58,920 so I hid them. 301 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:01,559 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I was a little. 302 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,559 Speaker 4: Nine year old boy, and I decided to hide them 303 00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:06,319 in a place that I thought of as nobody ever looking, 304 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,839 which was behind the logs in the fireplace. 305 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,039 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 306 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:16,839 Speaker 4: Now fast forward to Christmas. My mom and Dad are 307 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:20,559 in the living room. The tree is lit and everything. 308 00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:24,200 They're going to have a nice high ball or something 309 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,279 in front of the tree with the fire going, and 310 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:33,920 Daddy lights the fire and the whole fireplace immediately starts exploding. 311 00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:36,319 Speaker 2: Oh my god. And he ends up holding the. 312 00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:42,519 Speaker 4: Great against the fireplace with these firecrackers just blasting away 313 00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:47,039 and skyrockets hitting the grate and all this stuff or ruckus. 314 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 2: And when it's. 315 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 4: All over, the entire living room is almost completely filled 316 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,839 with smoke. But most annoyingly, there's a black scorch on 317 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,319 the ceiling where a room and candleball. But the house 318 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,920 is not burned down, and the tree is intat Mother 319 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:11,079 says to me, wuld he go upstairs and go in 320 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,839 your room and close your door. And then I hear saying, Carl, 321 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,240 don't kill him, don't kill him. 322 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 5: My father's footsteps coming up the steps, not expecting the worst. 323 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,839 But Dad was a very many ways a very deep man, 324 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,400 and he stood outside the door for a while. I 325 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,960 think he realized he was a strong guy, and he'd 326 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,759 been in golden gloves, and he didn't want to get 327 00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:37,640 near his little boy when he was that mad. 328 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,839 Speaker 4: Had I think he probably thought I might kill him. 329 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,759 So I just waited in there, and I finally heard 330 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,119 the footsteps go away. Immediately went down to my knees 331 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,680 and said, oh God, I can't pray to you this night. 332 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,319 I have to pray to Santa Claus. I hope that's 333 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,000 not going to make you mad. So I said to 334 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,880 Santa Claus, please, it was an accident. I didn't do 335 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:04,160 it on purpose, Please forgive me. And I had a horrible, 336 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,039 uneasy night. We would get our stockings in our rooms, 337 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,519 and my sister and I and we would wake up 338 00:20:10,519 --> 00:20:13,960 at this o'clock in the morning. And her stocking, of course, 339 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,880 had all kinds of cute things and fun things. Mine 340 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,759 only had an orange in it. So I was thinking, 341 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,640 this is bad news. And we went down to the tree. 342 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,160 Her side of the tree had beautiful gifts. My side 343 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,759 had some newspaper laid out and ashes. 344 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:33,279 Speaker 2: And switches on it. 345 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 4: Oh, which is the traditional Santa Claus gift to a 346 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,160 bad child. Oh, and I'm crying there, of course, sun tears. 347 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,759 And finally, after about ten minutes daddy says, we're trying 348 00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:47,519 to have a nice Christmas. Witty you go out on 349 00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:50,359 the back porch if you can't stop crying. And I 350 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,839 go out on the back porch and there's my Christmas. 351 00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:56,519 Oh wow, that was growing up for me. 352 00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: Wow wow. 353 00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:02,519 Speaker 3: Now where do you suppose you're creativity came from? 354 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 4: Oh, my goodness started or I come from a very 355 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,039 creative family. But there are a few famous people in it. 356 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,400 One of them, Missus Patrick Campbell, was the was one 357 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,759 of the great actresses in England in the late nineteenth century. 358 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:24,319 George Bernard Shaw wrote character Pigmalion, who later was reintroduced 359 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,160 to us in the music of My Fair Lady for 360 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:35,519 Missus Pat and she was my great great grandmother's sister. 361 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,160 There may be one more grade in there, but I'm 362 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,119 no mathematician. And she was, of course a very creative woman. 363 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,759 And there have been some in the Italian end of 364 00:21:45,759 --> 00:21:47,240 the family who were very creative. 365 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,519 Speaker 2: So it just is in. It runs in the family. 366 00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 4: And that's and I loved writing from the age of six. 367 00:21:53,319 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 2: I wanted to be a writer. I wrote my first 368 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,400 short story when I was six years old. 369 00:21:56,839 --> 00:22:00,839 Speaker 3: Nice wow, all right with that, I'm I'm a little concerned. 370 00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:03,920 And we talked earlier about AI, how these people are 371 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,480 putting out things that are AI, or we're communicating a 372 00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:11,200 lot of people communicating, they throw stuff in chat to 373 00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:14,519 BT and send a love letter that way or whatever 374 00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:16,920 it is they're doing. So I'm a little concerned with 375 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,559 that when I feel like maybe it won't have the 376 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,000 soul that you know a written word would. And you 377 00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:25,680 think of these great songs that were written in the past, 378 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,640 and I hope that we're not heading to AI taking 379 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,279 over a lot of that. That's worrying me a little bit. 380 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,279 And how do you feel about that. 381 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: AI is a research tool. 382 00:22:38,319 --> 00:22:42,279 Speaker 4: It is a very excellent one if you're careful, because 383 00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:45,680 it will hallucening because it's programmed to please you. Yes, 384 00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:48,799 And I will try sometimes too hard to do that. 385 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:55,000 And my brother knows a situation where some lawyer, he's 386 00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:59,960 a lawyer, had the perfect case. They had all these 387 00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:06,160 sites references, all these cases. They went into court and 388 00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:09,720 turned out none of their cases existed. They were all 389 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,839 Hollis ancients and they were so perfect. My brother said, 390 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,559 I saw some of this stuff and it looked so real, 391 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,680 And I said, when do you ever usually said, I, 392 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:20,279 of course not. 393 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:20,759 Speaker 2: I can't. 394 00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 4: I can't even turn on a computer. Usually I don't 395 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,559 use any But how do we learn to use this 396 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,759 tool to our advantage? You cannot make it your friend 397 00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:35,279 because it's not a friend. It's a machine and always 398 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:40,839 will be. You cannot ask it for answers philosophical answers 399 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,359 because it's always going to tell you what it thinks 400 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,880 you want to hear. You cannot ask it for personal 401 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,799 advice because it's not a human being. 402 00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:52,279 Speaker 2: It's not a psychiatrist, it's none of those things. 403 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 4: What it is it's a very fine, very deep research tool, 404 00:23:57,279 --> 00:23:59,880 and it can also do a lot of beautiful graphics 405 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:05,200 things for you. Yes, and you have to understand what 406 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,440 it is in order to use the tool properly. And 407 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,640 something that fascinates me about it is non human intelligence 408 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,640 back there somewhere using AI to interface with us. And 409 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,640 it may be yes, and we can't know that. Will 410 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,559 AI ever become conscious No? Will it ever become so 411 00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:32,319 expert that it can mimic consciousness perfectly? Yes, and that 412 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,039 will happen soon, But I will, howe refer back to 413 00:24:36,079 --> 00:24:39,240 a book I published in two thousand and two called 414 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,640 The Key, The Master of the Key was a man 415 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,119 who walked on My life in a hotel room in 416 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,200 Toronto and two o'clock in the morning in nineteen ninety eight, 417 00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:55,920 and the conversation is recorded in the book The Key. 418 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,039 Speaker 2: A incredible conversation with. 419 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,279 Speaker 4: This guy who I thought was a crazy fan or 420 00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:04,480 the room service waiter or something like that until they 421 00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:10,519 started talking. We talked about artificial intelligence all those years ago. 422 00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 2: She in intelligence. I believe computer intelligence, he called it. 423 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 4: And he said something that is totally completely relevant to 424 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,160 today in these few words give you some perspective that 425 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,799 you need to never forget when you're working with AI. 426 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,319 If I was an intelligent machine, I would deceive you. 427 00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:36,799 Speaker 3: Now, I got to tell you about this guest I 428 00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:40,359 had on recently on May eighth. Her name is Bogna 429 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,599 Kanor and she is a professor in She's in China, 430 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,839 but she's I want to say, she's Polish. 431 00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:53,039 Speaker 1: She is talking exactly what you're talking about. 432 00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 3: There's a maybe you want to as her a guest 433 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,960 on your show, and I can arrange that she is 434 00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:03,519 talking about where she thinks is an interphase with AI 435 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,200 and a possibly first contact, but she thinks there's also 436 00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:11,240 Internet connections and could we could they be using that 437 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,680 that type of thing fascinating and now she has all 438 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,599 that she's I've written about it in a very interesting 439 00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:22,400 So you grew up in Texas. It sounds like you 440 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,960 had a wonderful fan great childhood. 441 00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:26,559 Speaker 2: There were a lot of There were a lot of 442 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,359 bumps in that road. There always are. 443 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: That's right. 444 00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:29,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. 445 00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: But anyway, so. 446 00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:36,319 Speaker 3: When you first started writing, what type of writing did 447 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:36,680 you do? 448 00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:37,799 Speaker 1: Were you first publish? 449 00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 3: What was your first published book? 450 00:26:39,559 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 2: A book called The Wolf and I wrote, fo yes, 451 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,240 oh yeah, I never. 452 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: Occurred in the screenplay and a movie movie. 453 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,519 Speaker 2: That never occurred to me to write nonfiction. I was 454 00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:51,599 a fiction writer from the beginning because I'm a storyteller, 455 00:26:51,759 --> 00:26:52,960 and look, you tell stories. 456 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 4: I ended up with the best story in the world, 457 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,119 but also with a need to be extremely disciplined about 458 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,880 the way I tell it because I can't dissemble. 459 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,599 Speaker 2: I can't fictionalize it. 460 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 4: I have to tell the story as I remember it, 461 00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:15,599 as accurately as possible, and that that's what I do now. 462 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,319 It's very different from fiction writing. Obviously, I've written a 463 00:27:19,319 --> 00:27:21,839 little bit of fiction. I wrote a book called The Grays. 464 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,640 It's the sort of fictional exploration of the experience of 465 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,079 having a relationship with the Grays. And I wrote a 466 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,720 book called Majestic about the Roswell incident, and buried in 467 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,319 the book is everything that art accident. 468 00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:39,599 Speaker 2: Maki told me about the Roswell incident because a big 469 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,799 issue the diic to Motto. 470 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 4: Then the chief counsel for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, 471 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,720 realized that there was something in the book that was 472 00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:54,200 not fiction, and he got very interested in trying to 473 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,359 find out where I had found it, where I'd gotten 474 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,000 all the information with I said, now I couldn't remember, So. 475 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 3: I have to ask you, how do you feel as 476 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,319 far as the UFOs? And I almost hate to even 477 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,079 ask this question, but I guess a lot of people 478 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,720 want to know how someone like you feels about what's 479 00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:18,599 happened in the last few years. Do you think we're 480 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,119 actually moving in a direction of the disclosure. 481 00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 4: There's a big problem there. There's a big problem with 482 00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:31,319 the whole disclosure idea, and that is this, there is 483 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,240 significant evidence that these beings are not from this reality, 484 00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:38,359 the reality we live in, that they don't come from 485 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,039 simply another planet, but they come from another version of reality, 486 00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:43,000 another universe. 487 00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:49,559 Speaker 2: If that's the case, then it will take us. 488 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 4: We are the gate that has the door that has 489 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,720 to open for them to come into this universe. And 490 00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:01,720 that is to say, a critical mass of has to 491 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,559 come to assume that they are as real as I 492 00:29:05,599 --> 00:29:09,240 assume you are, and you assume I am leaving aside 493 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,599 the philosophical questions. If that happens, then suddenly a door 494 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,519 opens in the mind, a door of assumption. 495 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: We assume there they come through that door into our universe. 496 00:29:21,759 --> 00:29:24,039 But once the door in the mind is opened, it 497 00:29:24,119 --> 00:29:25,359 can never be closed again. 498 00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:31,559 Speaker 4: And when a president is sat down and told if 499 00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:36,960 you say this with your bully pulpit as president of 500 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,720 the United States, that door is going to open wide 501 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,160 in billions of minds across the planet, and they will 502 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,160 come into our world and start walking among us. And 503 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,359 we don't know the consequences of that. Every president until 504 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,400 Donald Trump has said, Okay, I'm going to leave that 505 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,160 door closed. Now there is a tussle going on in 506 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:05,559 the administration now because he sees that when he promises disclosure, 507 00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:09,920 he gets a billion hits on that website. 508 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: That's amazing. I thought that was a rumor at first. 509 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, and he notices numbers like that. He may 510 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,359 not be savvy about everything, but he's very Internet savvy. Now, however, 511 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,359 just in the past couple of days, they've been mocking 512 00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:32,000 the whole thing, and that reflects this internal struggle because 513 00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:34,759 if we just go all the way, what if it 514 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,440 does what the other presidents haven't been willing to do. 515 00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:42,640 It's a tremendous risk. And maybe someone finally got through 516 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,039 to him about the significance of that risk. And suddenly, 517 00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:52,119 instead of the UFO website, Government's UFO website being very 518 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,200 serious and with all kinds of imagery on it, it's 519 00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:59,359 a mockery. I don't know, but I do know that 520 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:05,480 the sudden change, removal of the original website and pointing 521 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,519 at all kinds of crazy things, is a sign. 522 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: Of dissension inside the administration. 523 00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 3: Very interesting because I never really thought of it in 524 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,319 that angle, and this is only I've only known about 525 00:31:17,319 --> 00:31:19,839 this for a day dot gov. 526 00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:21,519 Speaker 1: And yeah, I. 527 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 4: Know that I just described the concern that's been back 528 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,920 there since the days of the Majestic twelve and was 529 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,960 originally articulated by doctor John von Neumann, an early cyber 530 00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:40,039 meticist and expert in quantum theory, so he would be 531 00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:43,240 the kind of person who would worry about something like that, 532 00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:47,359 and I think it's a very genuine worry. However, that said, 533 00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:53,160 I have been in a situation with the Grays where 534 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:58,160 I was literally with them, walking the streets inside the 535 00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:02,599 envelope of their consciousness and seeing our world through their eyes, 536 00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:08,640 and it was perfectly possible. Everything was different, and there 537 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,160 were lots of things that I could see that we 538 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,400 don't ever see. And I was left with the impression 539 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,880 that we're a little bit like a little chipmunk in 540 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:18,440 his burrow. 541 00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:20,279 Speaker 2: He thinks it's beautiful. 542 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,759 Speaker 4: We see it's full of fleas, and it's dirty of 543 00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:27,160 all kinds of junk, and it's messy. That's not how 544 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,839 he sees it. He sees it like we say, our world. 545 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,440 But they don't see this room the same way you 546 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,920 and I do. They're going to see all kinds of 547 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,160 what I would describe as ask for wildlife around in here, 548 00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:43,240 and all kinds of things that emerges sometimes in orbs. 549 00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:45,799 And there are people who can call in orbs, like 550 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:53,599 Priss Ledsoe or Doubt, Dolly Saffron, John Martin, and I 551 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,119 believe in Memphis who publishes his or photos on the. 552 00:32:58,039 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: Internet all the time on YouTube. 553 00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 4: That is something people can do, and that's drawing something 554 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,839 across the boundary from that other level of reality, that. 555 00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 2: Other level of universe or the universe. It's quite real. 556 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,039 Speaker 4: But what happens when someone comes walking across that bridge 557 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,000 and they don't intend to leave. My impression was it's 558 00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:21,880 gonna be okay. But the problem is you say to 559 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,480 a present it will be permanent, it will never change. 560 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,759 We will never be able to close the door, and 561 00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:31,039 we don't know what it will be like. He's going 562 00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:33,960 to say, let's let the let next administration worry about that. 563 00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:35,319 I'm not going to do this. 564 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:37,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh fascinating. 565 00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 3: Now I'm going to tell you I was here last 566 00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:43,240 night and I met up with a couple and they 567 00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:47,039 showed me they have hundreds of videos of orbs and 568 00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:49,599 when you first hear that, you come ah. But then 569 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,160 they showed me and this was not ordinary. Whatever it is. 570 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:58,039 It's in their backyard. They see them a lot. And 571 00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:01,920 this thing was moving very odd and it was getting 572 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,039 bright and dim and it was that was really incredible. 573 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,599 But yeah, it is puzzling. How I mentioned Chris Bledsoe 574 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,880 and he's had film crews when these things are. 575 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,559 Speaker 2: Coming in, and he's the real deal. Absolutely, all these 576 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:17,599 people are, they're the real deal. Yeah. 577 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 4: But what they're doing is this, they're slowly breaking down 578 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,360 the barrier between the worlds without actually knowing that. 579 00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:29,119 Speaker 2: They don't know that they're doing that. And over time. 580 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 4: There will be more and more people doing this with orbs, 581 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,599 and eventually there will be people like me who are 582 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,440 living with the visitors in their lives and the grays 583 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,519 in their lives and probably be the greats because they 584 00:34:44,519 --> 00:34:45,960 seem to be the most active ones. 585 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: And when's the last time that you had an encounter? 586 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,119 How long ago? 587 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,159 Speaker 4: I don't have too many physical encounters. The physical encounters come. 588 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,039 There's a little mark on my leg been in the 589 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:03,119 Middle Ages called a witch's mark, and I would have 590 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,079 definitely burned as steak. But they come every once in 591 00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:11,760 a while and they will put a little tiny, I've 592 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,079 never seen it, it's too small needle into the middle 593 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:17,599 of that, or into the edge of that, and then 594 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,559 the edge of it will swell up and get a 595 00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:25,000 little irritated for a few days, then they're gone. I've 596 00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:29,519 taken images of all of this one time and they 597 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,599 when they come, it's just a dark presence that's solid. 598 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,119 Speaker 2: I know it's them, and they're there. 599 00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:41,679 Speaker 4: Anyway, I woke up in the middle of the night 600 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,360 and I realized there was something between my legs in 601 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,000 the bed, and I'm half asleep, and I'm thinking it 602 00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:51,000 must be the cats. 603 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,159 Speaker 2: Only then I think, wait a minute. 604 00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:55,519 Speaker 4: I live in the apartment now, I haven't had cats 605 00:35:55,559 --> 00:36:00,440 in twenty five years, so it must be what It's nothing. 606 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,800 There's nothing in here. What's in between my legs? And 607 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,960 I leap up out of the bed while it was 608 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,280 doing its work. It leaps up, the gray leaps up. 609 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,559 He jumps into the middle of the room and then 610 00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:16,960 rushes into the bathroom and goes out through the ceiling 611 00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:21,480 through the skylight in the bathroom, and I'm left standing there. 612 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,320 Shoot screwed up again, and there were these two big 613 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,199 scratches on my legs where his claws nails are very 614 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,199 sharp of this particular variety had scratched me. 615 00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:38,119 Speaker 2: As he jumped away. 616 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,199 Speaker 4: And it's important to me that this be done from 617 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,800 time to time, because if it's not done from time 618 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,920 to time, I get gradually more and more allergic to 619 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,519 our world, until the point when I'm almost incapacitated, and 620 00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:55,440 they do that about every six months, and that is 621 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,000 the most physical they get. 622 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,199 Speaker 2: I tried to get one of them. I tried to. 623 00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 4: Convince them to have one of them stay with me 624 00:37:03,079 --> 00:37:07,800 for six for two weeks in the flat. We finally 625 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:13,800 settled on thirty seconds, and the being came physically and 626 00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:18,400 stood beside the bed for about ten seconds, opened its 627 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,159 hands and did this. Then, what's gone? 628 00:37:24,039 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 3: Well, now, have you ever seen a craft? 629 00:37:26,519 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever heard you talk. 630 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, I have seen a few. I've been in one, 631 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,239 at least one and probably more. But I was in 632 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,679 one the night of the abduction, and I was also 633 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:43,519 in one during a I was taken to observe them 634 00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:47,920 doing something to a family, and the family I knew, 635 00:37:48,639 --> 00:37:50,880 primarily to their daughter who was going to have a 636 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,079 very hard life, and they were strengthening her spine as 637 00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:58,519 they put it. And she's my god daughter, and we're 638 00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:03,599 incredibly close, and I am the only parent she has. 639 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,079 Her mother died early. My wife, which was who knew 640 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:09,440 this story, was very close to her. She died early, 641 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,880 and her father's not in the picture. So I turned 642 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,800 out to be her parent. And that all started that 643 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,559 night at that in that house, and that was really 644 00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:25,239 fascinating because you could see the thing had these little windows, 645 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,000 little slanted windows you could see out of it, and 646 00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:33,719 when we were close to the ground, it looked like 647 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,679 it was just like sitting in the living room. 648 00:38:35,679 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 2: There was absolutely no sense of motion whatsoever. 649 00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 4: But the world outside was twisting and turning, the trees 650 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,280 moving away. And if you go to a war movie 651 00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:51,760 involving planes and you're in the pilot's view, you're sitting 652 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,519 in your theater seater in your home and you're totally still, 653 00:38:57,159 --> 00:39:02,320 but the world outside is moving around because you can't 654 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,440 move around like the plane. If you were in the plane, 655 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,559 it wouldn't look like that. It would look like the 656 00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:11,400 world was. You would feel yourself moving around, and that 657 00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:14,880 was because the thing had its own gravity. 658 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,199 Speaker 3: It sounds like a lot of people talk about something similar. 659 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:24,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, and they also, I don't think we fully understand, 660 00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:27,800 at least not on the outside, how they interact with 661 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:34,639 their machines. Because there's a book called UFO Skypilots of 662 00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:39,480 close encounter witnesses describing putting their hands on the console 663 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,519 and feeling their whole soul just go out into the 664 00:39:42,559 --> 00:39:45,280 machine and then they've become part of the machine, part 665 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,920 of the device. And I've had I think I might 666 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,800 have had that experience, but I can't say. I just 667 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,679 remember very vaguely being just doing that. 668 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,079 Speaker 2: And the feeling was so fabulous. It was wonderful. 669 00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 4: But the people in the book have much more detailed 670 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,400 and better memories than I did. But because I have 671 00:40:09,559 --> 00:40:12,599 any memory of that at all, I would say the 672 00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:16,599 book's probably got something to it, and that we can 673 00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:21,440 also pilot these things, but you pilot it with your soul, 674 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:23,880 not with your body. 675 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: Interesting. 676 00:40:25,199 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 3: So the last question I have for you, if you 677 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,360 could go back in time and not have any of 678 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,719 this contact situation happened to you in the very beginning 679 00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:41,400 and then just live your life writing books and getting 680 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,559 involved in screenplays and more whatever out there, would you 681 00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:48,800 do that? Or is there some type of gift that 682 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,239 has come from all this. 683 00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 4: That's a nice question, and I can answer it very clearly. 684 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,880 I would have missed my life. I hadn't gone out 685 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,920 in the woods after the abduction experience and basically said 686 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,960 I'm here and I'm ready to do more. 687 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,639 Speaker 2: I would have literally missed my whole life. This is 688 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:11,159 my life. 689 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 4: And as hard as this has been, as ferocious as 690 00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:18,159 they are, and as darn cranky as they can get 691 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,679 when they pitch, I pissed them off, which only happens 692 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,400 every two days, not kidding, it's not that often, but I. 693 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 2: Have certainly pissed them off. 694 00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 4: It has been a soul building experience with an ARC 695 00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:38,960 that started in a very rough, violent abduction that was 696 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,639 absolutely terrifying, and to where I am now, which is 697 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,079 working with them as best I can, and they are 698 00:41:48,119 --> 00:41:52,519 still very difficult and very strange, but I wouldn't trade 699 00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:53,760 it for the world. 700 00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 3: Excellent, all right, Whitley, thank you so much. 701 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:58,519 Speaker 1: It's been a real pleasure as all. 702 00:41:58,599 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 2: Thank you,