WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:15.880 You're listening to why we do what we do? Welcome 2 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:18.559 to why we do what we do? I am your 3 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:23.480 synthesized contingency host. Let's already use that one before, in 4 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:25.399 which case I'm just your running out of bright ideas 5 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:28.280 host Abraham, and I'm. 6 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:31.120 Your aren't you excited for another acronym? Host Shane. 7 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:35.759 We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things 8 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:39.359 that humans and non human animals do, and we are 9 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:42.479 in the part the fourth part of a series of 10 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:46.719 discussions about a tool used by behavior analysts very commonly 11 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:49.880 in clinical settings and I guess experimental settings, and which 12 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:54.119 we are trying to determine why certain challenging behaviors happen, 13 00:00:54.240 --> 00:01:00.240 particularly among individuals who might have impacts from diagnoses, trying 14 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:02.280 to understand how to get their needs met in a 15 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:05.519 way that is not through those sort of challenging behaviors. So, 16 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.280 if you have not heard anything up to this point, 17 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:10.680 we will try to do a brief recap on what 18 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:13.280 we have discussed so far. I do still encourage you 19 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:15.319 to go back and check out those previous discussions to 20 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:19.040 have the foundation that you would need to access this discussion. 21 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.680 But I can't control what you do so welcome either way. 22 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.040 If you're joining us for the first time, then I 23 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:27.040 hope you enjoy what you hear in this discussion. And 24 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.319 if you're a returning person and welcome back, I'm glad 25 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.159 you have continued to seek what we are providing out 26 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:37.560 for your entertainment and knowledge growth. But that's what we're 27 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:38.200 up to today. 28 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.239 Yeah, we're so excited and ideally and we always kind 29 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:45.200 of jinx ourselves when this happens, but this will likely 30 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:49.159 be the last of the functional Analysis series as we 31 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:51.400 kind of wrap things up, bring it to present day, 32 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:54.159 and maybe even look at some strong opinions that we 33 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:54.680 have on this. 34 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:56.920 So yeah, we get into our hot takes. 35 00:01:56.959 --> 00:01:57.480 I'm excited. 36 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.480 Yeah, it's I had planned for this to prob be 37 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:05.040 three discussions, and obviously we needed more than that, so 38 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.199 four feels like it should be sufficient, but I could 39 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:12.520 be wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah, As you said, we tend 40 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:15.360 to be long winded. We know a lot about this, 41 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:18.000 We have a lot of personal experience with this, We 42 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:23.879 have stories to share and insights to impart upon everybody, 43 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:26.919 and so we sometimes will go off script a bit 44 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.759 and just elaborate, and that does mean more and longer episodes. 45 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.879 But I thought we were gonna wrap this up in three, 46 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:35.560 so I think we should be able to wrap this 47 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:36.080 up in four. 48 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:36.439 Yeah. 49 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:40.039 Either way. It is August nineteenth, so happy International bo 50 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.319 or maybe Boo Day. Maybe it's a bobow a balbo. 51 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:46.520 Yeah, it's a balbo bal bun. It's bal buns. We 52 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:47.240 like bal buons. 53 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:47.639 Okay. 54 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:50.319 It's an International Orangutang day. 55 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:54.199 Okay. It is National Aviation Day. 56 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.840 I love that. It's National Hot and Spicy Food Day. 57 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:03.599 Ooh, celebrate. I'm here for it. So you're National Medical 58 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:05.639 Docimmetrist Day. 59 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.400 Yes, yes, it is even better. It's National root beer 60 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:10.439 Float Day. Oh. 61 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:12.520 I love a beer float. Someone once took me up 62 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:13.759 with one of those. That'd be great. 63 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.400 Yeah, somewhere is like the perfect time for a root 64 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:19.439 beer float, or like a like an orange creamsicle float, 65 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:20.439 like an orange soda float. 66 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.360 Okay, okay, I think I know what I'm doing after 67 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:25.280 we record. 68 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:28.280 Today In Australia, Like, you know, they call cream soda spiders. 69 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:31.560 Do you order a spider? Like that sounds horrifying? I like, 70 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:32.280 is this a real thing? 71 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:32.560 Are you? 72 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:36.639 Yeaheah no no no no, But like I like I was. 73 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:38.879 I was at a hotel, like, and I was walking 74 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:41.560 by and They're like, we have milkshakes and spiders, and 75 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.360 I was like, that is horrific. But apparently that's what 76 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:45.439 they call their cream sodas. 77 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:48.199 Okay, they just put the spiders in the milkshake. 78 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:49.000 Yeah. 79 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.240 Yeah, yeah, and it tastes like orange. 80 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:54.280 Oh no, wow. 81 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:00.000 Fact of the podcast. Hopefully not Hopefully we've got more 82 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.680 contents the podcast. But all right, well, moving on, National 83 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:07.039 sand Castle and Sculpture Day. 84 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:11.000 Fun, so fun. They do contest here. It's really cool. 85 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:13.680 It's National Soft ice Cream Day. 86 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:15.560 I like some soft ice cream. 87 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:15.879 Yeah. 88 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:19.800 It's a potato Day, Love me some potatoes too. Some 89 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:20.920 good foods going on in. 90 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:23.399 This food day. Yeah, get to root your float and 91 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:26.000 some French fries. Oh my god, life is good. It's 92 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:27.759 World Humanitarian Day. 93 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.240 Oh beautiful. Love that. It is World Photography Day. It's 94 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:33.120 a good one too. 95 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.959 Yes it is. And it is Minority Enterprise Development Week. 96 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.720 Okay, very nice. Yeah, all right, Well, the holidays are 97 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.680 fun and we do them because this podcast comes out 98 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:47.680 on a holidays day of things, and it's fun to 99 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:53.240 just communicate those whimsies as a little teaser, a little 100 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.079 easing into the discussion whatever we're going to be talking about, 101 00:04:57.160 --> 00:04:59.480 even if it's a light discussion. I don't feel like 102 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:04.319 this one particularly heavy. It's technical, but not one of 103 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:07.240 those more like emotionally heavy episodes that we have done 104 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:11.000 in the past. So yeah, there's just a fun thing 105 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:13.399 we'd like to do. So anyway, if you enjoy what 106 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.120 you have heard so far, and you enjoy what we 107 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.800 say after this, and you're thinking to yourself after this 108 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.480 podcast ends, I'd really like to help these guys out. 109 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:23.959 There's a variety of ways you can do that. You 110 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:27.480 can leave us a rating, a review, like subscribe, tell 111 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.360 a friend, or join us on Patreon, and I will 112 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:32.879 talk about those things in a little bit more detail 113 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:35.639 at the end of this discussion, so that I do 114 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:39.199 not delay our beginning any further than that. But I 115 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:41.720 think we've done all the intro things. Are we ready 116 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:44.839 to talk about fays, Yes we are. Okay, let's do 117 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.560 a quick recap on what we've talked about in the 118 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:50.600 first few episodes up to this point. First, what we 119 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:54.360 did is we discussed the fact that the concept of 120 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:59.680 a functional analysis, before it was an experimental technique, was 121 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:06.879 largely a theoretical exercise. It was the unpacking the variables 122 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:10.639 in sort of a discussion format about what could be 123 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:15.800 happening with some aspects of human behavior. But then in 124 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:20.759 the nineteen eighties, essentially we get to some studies that 125 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:25.240 are being published that describe an experimental arrangement in which 126 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:30.399 variables are tested to try and determine what are the 127 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.959 reasons that some individuals who have disabilities might be engaging 128 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:38.160 in some challenging behaviors. And in those original studies, in particular, 129 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:42.079 there were self harm type behaviors. They're injuring themselves, and 130 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:44.160 they were trying to figure out what is going on 131 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:46.560 with these individuals. 132 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.519 Right, And the goal of those arrangements were to primarily 133 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:53.560 isolate variables, right. It wasn't to test lots of variables together. 134 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.360 I mean, just like any sort of experiment, we want 135 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:59.000 to figure out you know, functional relations or relationships between 136 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.319 those variables that we mean manipulate and the outcomes of 137 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.600 that said manipulation. And so that's essentially what this new 138 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:08.560 arrangement was designed to do, was to figure out causes 139 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.480 of behavior by isolating singular or at least as close 140 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:14.319 to singular variables that we could to see if it 141 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:17.279 did influence behavior one way or another. And what we 142 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:21.480 found was pretty exciting because it was pretty pretty I mean, 143 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.040 we were able to see pretty clearly that there were 144 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:24.000 some influences. 145 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.439 Yeah, and conceptually the way they sort of thought through 146 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:31.639 this was all right, there could be social reasons for 147 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.560 this that like, it's something about what other people are doing, 148 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:38.600 that's why we see this self harm, or it could 149 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.839 be something else. It could be either in a way, 150 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:43.519 either self stimulatory or and we didn't say this before, 151 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:45.600 but it could be a medical thing. So it's like, 152 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.759 if this is an internal issue why they're doing this, 153 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.399 we could rule that out from it's a social issue 154 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:53.720 from why they're doing this. And so in the social 155 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:58.360 issue we can test either positive reinforcement which is being mitigated, 156 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:02.720 delivered and otherwise arbitrated in a way I guess by 157 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:07.319 some other people, some external third party, or negative reinforcement 158 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:09.759 arbitrated by that external third party. That was the way 159 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:11.959 we'll sort of break out the social aspects and if 160 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:15.399 it's not those, then there's something internal going on that's 161 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.120 it might be self stimulatory or it might be And 162 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.360 they didn't really delve into the extent to which they 163 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.959 determine a medical condition, but it could be some kind 164 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:25.680 of medical condition, right, right, And so which is kind 165 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:27.639 of clever too if you think about, like, why are 166 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.560 these behaviors happening? Is it something about their social environment 167 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:32.960 or something about their internal environment. That's a really helpful 168 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.279 way too to just distinguish those variables. 169 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.879 Yeah. Absolutely, And then one of the conversations that we 170 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:39.759 were having as we were kind of going forward was 171 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.279 also this issue because we as we're talking about kind 172 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.080 of doing an experiment and how quote unquote time consuming 173 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:47.840 it could be or anything like that, which we did 174 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:49.720 talk about in debunking some of those things. One of 175 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:51.840 the questions that kind of always came up was why 176 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:53.840 couldn't we do this through interviews or why couldn't we 177 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:56.320 do this through observations? And really the truth was it 178 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.159 just wasn't as robust. You could get some of those answers, 179 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:02.039 you could get some of those variables, but it just 180 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:05.279 wasn't as salient as robust as you would get through 181 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.480 that kind of that initial arrangement and kind of messing 182 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.759 with those variables. So while those could be useful tools 183 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.279 as part of the assessment process, they weren't sufficient in 184 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:17.559 in identifying and solidifying causation as part of this kind 185 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.320 of overall discussion around the causes of behavior. 186 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.039 And I'm just thinking back to on the basic experimental 187 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:27.200 arrangement of the functional analysis in reflecting on the episodes 188 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:30.080 we've recorded so far, I was wondering if we've communicated 189 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:34.320 clearly enough that essentially in the testing arrangement that they've 190 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:36.960 developed to try and isolate these variables, the way that 191 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:41.240 they do that is we are going to strategically and 192 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:46.639 repeatedly try and apply the hypothesized reinforcement to see if 193 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.840 we can make that challenging behavior increase. And the reason 194 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:53.840 that they do that is to see, like, does this 195 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:58.639 happen more when this situation is present? Because if that 196 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.480 if it does, then that that means that situation is likely. 197 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:03.799 The reason it's happening in the first place was essentially 198 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:05.879 the hypothesis. And that's the thing that I think a 199 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:08.080 lot of people struggle with when they first encounter these 200 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:12.200 is like, Wow, you're deliberately making more happen in these 201 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:17.120 situations with the challenging behavior that could be really dangerous. 202 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:20.679 And that got us speak into various types of refinements 203 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:25.080 and procedures that people have developed around functional analyses that 204 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:28.879 are things like, we'll reinforce precursor behaviors, so rather than 205 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:32.159 allow it to escalate significantly, it's what are the things 206 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:35.399 that they do that are leading up to that high 207 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:40.120 magnitude challenging behavior and will reinforce those those initial steps 208 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:42.679 first so it doesn't get all the way there, and 209 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.639 then if that works, then that tells us that that's 210 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:49.519 still the function, still the variable that's relevant for that behavior, 211 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:52.519 Why it's happening, that's the cause. But we don't have 212 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:54.799 to let it get to the point where it's too dangerous. 213 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.120 Right exactly, which I think is critically important and actually 214 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.080 I think that is going to be a good we 215 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.559 kind of get into today's stuff. Another reason why we've 216 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:07.159 got this kind of new synthesized variation of a functional 217 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:10.240 analysis and kind of the updated stuff there, because ultimately 218 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.080 came down to like do you need to evoke behavior 219 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.320 to capture the function of the behavior. There's a lot 220 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.799 of comments and a lot of thoughts and a lot 221 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:19.480 of things that we can unpack with that, but that 222 00:11:19.559 --> 00:11:22.600 is I think also just one of the central concerns 223 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:25.559 of doing functional analysis, which the Handley article from twenty 224 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.720 twelve also helps to kind of debunk that and spend 225 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.960 a little bit of time kind of like unpacking variations 226 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.480 in like different ways that we can go about conducting 227 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:35.080 fas in meaningful ways. 228 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:37.879 Yeah, so, for those of you who have been listening there, 229 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.519 we've done a fairly decent handful of referencing studies and 230 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:43.600 articles that have been published on this topic. Those are 231 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.759 our primary sources that we have used for this discussion 232 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:48.320 so far. All of those links have been in the 233 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.000 notes so far. I did add some more over subsequent episodes, 234 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:54.559 so like the first couple of episodes published wouldn't have 235 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.679 all of the references, but the most recent couple should 236 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.399 have all of the references, just because as we we've 237 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:03.879 recorded this over a few weeks and just updated some 238 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:06.000 more things as we went through, and so just in 239 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:07.799 case you were looking for those and didn't see them, 240 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:10.559 they should be there now. Yeah, wow, that recap took 241 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.039 us all the way to our first ad break. 242 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:17.080 We are we are so skilled at this. 243 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:20.480 So good. So we all right, well we do have 244 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.000 actual new content to get into for you, but you know, 245 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:27.679 we've we teased it up so well with our previously 246 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:30.840 on segments that we have talked ourselves into an ad break, 247 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:40.679 so we'll see you on the other side. Yeah, okay, 248 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.240 we're back. We have described in great detail all the 249 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:48.000 things we've discussed so far about functional analyzes, and so 250 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.320 we can get into the bulk of today's discussion. Are 251 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.159 you ready for the segue? Yeah, let's do it all right, great, 252 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.200 So we're gonna start by actually talking about something we 253 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.159 have brought up in previous discussions here, but we're going 254 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:02.679 to focus on this for a moment, and that's what 255 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:07.320 we do. Once we have finished the analysis from the 256 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:11.559 functional analysis, we have done, the experiment, we've isolated. Okay, 257 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.159 these are the variables that tell us what is going 258 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:17.679 on for this individual when they engage in these challenging behaviors. 259 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:20.039 What are they trying to get out of this situation? 260 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:20.840 Right? 261 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.840 And we described a few times up to this point 262 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.399 that the purpose is to determine that what is called function, 263 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:26.840 like what they're trying to get out of it. We 264 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.080 call the function the function of the behavior is they're 265 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.759 trying to get this right, and that from that function, 266 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:34.519 the most common next step that you'll see in a 267 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:38.279 lot of the literature that uses Functionalyzies is to teach 268 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:41.639 the individual to communicate their needs with some kind of 269 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.879 communication method rather than turn to those more challenging forms 270 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:49.120 of behavior. And sometimes that communication is they might do 271 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.399 a picture exchange, which we have never done a full 272 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.720 episode on, but essentially it's like it says, these are 273 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.000 for individuals who do not use very much vocal verable behavior, 274 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:00.399 and they might exchange like they might have and iPad 275 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:01.919 that has a picture they can point to. They might 276 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.559 have physical pictures they can hand to somebody that's a 277 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:06.080 thing that they need. It could be a break or 278 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:09.360 a snack, or what attention or play someone, whatever it 279 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:11.120 is they need. They learn that they can do that 280 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:14.759 instead of the challenging behavior. Depending on why they were 281 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:17.639 doing that challenging behavior, we create that communication strategy. They 282 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.240 might also do sign language. They might also say vocally 283 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:21.960 what it is that they need. There's a variety of 284 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.200 things that they could do. So let's using our We'd 285 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.919 previously described an example of an individual in a classroom, 286 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.159 and what was happening in this situation was that the 287 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:36.039 teacher would be engaging with other students and the student 288 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.000 would start hitting their head on the desk, and then 289 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.320 the teacher would come over and attend to that student, 290 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:42.480 and then the student would stop hitting their head on 291 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:44.000 the desk, but as soon as the teacher left, they'd 292 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.720 hit their head on the desk again. And essentially from 293 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:51.799 this hypothesized fake situation we concocted the reinforcement was attention 294 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.399 from the teacher. Basically, the student just wanted to have 295 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:57.039 one on one time with the teacher, and that the situation. 296 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.720 So the function of the behavior was to get the 297 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:03.919 teachature's attention. So what we might do instead with that 298 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:06.200 result is then teach the student to raise their hand 299 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:08.840 instead of banging their head on the desk. They could 300 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.639 raise their hand, and when they do that, then that 301 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:14.360 results in the teacher's attention. The individual can get what 302 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:18.480 they need, which is the teacher's attention, without hurting themselves, Right, 303 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:20.720 that's sort of the purpose in the arrangement. That's the 304 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:23.080 next steps after we've done that analysis piece. 305 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.519 Yeah, without hurting themselves in a much easier way, less 306 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.559 effortful way. Yeah, there's lots of things there now. Shrewd 307 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:32.639 listeners and those who are already familiar with these arrangements, 308 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:34.720 you may already see or know that there can be 309 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:38.279 an unworkable outcome to this communication training called functional communication 310 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:41.240 training or FCT. You know, again, of course more initials 311 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:44.679 to memorize. That is, when the individual requests the thing 312 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:47.679 that they need, what happens when they are constantly requesting 313 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.679 the reinforcer? We have to kind of like think about that. 314 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.799 If they're constantly requesting the reinforcer, do we continuously deliver 315 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.720 that reinforcer? What happens when the reinforcer is not available 316 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:59.399 or not forthcoming? Can the reinforcer itself be provided endlessly 317 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.960 and individual is never asked to tolerate times or situations 318 00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:05.320 in which that is not available at all for fear 319 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:08.120 that they might return to their challenging behavior. That's always 320 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.039 a kind of a constant conversation that we have, is like, 321 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:11.759 if they're going to ask for it, what happens when 322 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:13.559 we have to say no? Right, because it can't be 323 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:16.759 around forever? And that is that is always kind of 324 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:19.360 like I feel like, if it's not in the forefront 325 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.799 of the discussion about FCT, it's always kind of a 326 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.360 looming discussion as part of that. 327 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:25.600 Yeah, I mean, using our example of the kid in 328 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:27.799 the classroom, like Okay, So the kid raises their hand, 329 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.120 the teacher gives them attention, and then the teacher needs 330 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:31.519 to go work with other student. The kids raise their 331 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:32.919 hands again. They have to stop what they're doing and 332 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.039 come back and pay attention to the student. And then 333 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:36.519 they turn away to go help other students and the 334 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.080 kids raise their hand again, they have to go back 335 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.919 and pay attention to the student. Like is that sustainable? 336 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.759 Like can we expect? Like the problem is like this 337 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:45.840 kid's just gonna always be raising their hand to get 338 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:47.840 their teacher's attention because that's the thing that they want. 339 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:49.919 And if they don't get that, what do we think 340 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:50.639 is going to happen? 341 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:51.120 Right? 342 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.440 Right, They're going to eventually go back to the strategy 343 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:55.440 that worked before, which is hitting their head on the desk, 344 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.039 which is a whole other conversations called resurgence. It's worth 345 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.320 digging into at some point, but you can imagine those 346 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:03.399 situations people who are listening to thinking like, yeah, but 347 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.480 I mean, you just can't do this endlessly. You just 348 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.960 can't honor every request forever. And you're right. So there 349 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.759 were several attempts early on to explore how we might 350 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:16.599 teach these new communication methods and account for how to 351 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:21.000 manage situations when that request doesn't work. But how do 352 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:23.559 we do that? Do we just provide the reinforcement only 353 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:25.599 some of the time that they ask, so it's like 354 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:28.000 they might request and that we don't do it some 355 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:29.599 of the time, but we do do it some of 356 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.079 the time. Do we just stop providing it for periods 357 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.920 of time and just say, like wollw it's just not available. 358 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:37.920 Do we provide it in smaller quantities maybe they just 359 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:39.519 get used to having a little bit less of it, 360 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.279 or we do huge quantities so that they're satisfied and 361 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.839 don't want anymore. Like variations of this were tried in 362 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.480 several experiments that we'll go and outline a couple of 363 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:49.880 the takeaways from those. 364 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.359 Right, So in nineteen ninety eight, and this was further 365 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.839 developed in two thousand and one, some studies started using 366 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.039 something from basic research literature with rats and pigeons from 367 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:02.200 the nineteen fifties called a multiple schedule. And I'm sure 368 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:03.680 that people who are listening to this are like super 369 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.200 stoked to get into schedules of reinforcement again, and those 370 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.720 like simple and complex schedules of reinforcement. I'm sure, you're thrilled. Yeah, 371 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.400 to start like diving into that. For me, it would 372 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.839 bring up some like ooh, some emotions because I remember 373 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.319 studying conjunctive schedules and multiple mixed schedules and I was like, 374 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.559 I hate this. It's a lot, but it's actually like 375 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:24.480 super powerful. Yeah, I knew you would like it, but 376 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:26.519 like it's cool. It's cool once you like really understand 377 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:29.640 how it works. Right, So multiple schedule this arrangement. This 378 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.079 is an arrangement in which, once the individual has learned 379 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:35.119 a communication strategy, the clinicians then teach the individual to 380 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.400 recognize a signal that tells them that while the signal 381 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.400 is present, their request will be honored. Every single time. 382 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.079 When the signal is not present, their request will not 383 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.400 be honored. So, like, you're going to describe a simple 384 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:48.039 version of this, so I won't get into that. You'll 385 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:49.839 probably explain this much better than I will. Yeah. 386 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.240 Yeah, So just to make sure that you, like, we'll 387 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:54.680 paint a pictures so you hear AU say that there's 388 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.839 a request or there's a signal that says your requests 389 00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:59.680 are going to be honored, and then a different signal 390 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.799 that says as they will not and that's the basic 391 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.119 arrangement here. And just to be clear for those of 392 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.839 you who are maybe already in the know about how 393 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.480 multiple schedules work technically, that is, a multiple schedule can 394 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:13.400 be a lot of things. It does not have to 395 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.079 be this. This is just the way it most commonly 396 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:18.960 appears in this particular setting. But you could actually have 397 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.720 like a bunch of different situations, a bunch of different 398 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.160 signals that are all correlated with different schedules of reinforcement, 399 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.440 and that would be a multiple schedule. It doesn't just 400 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.079 have to be on off. There's only two conditions. There 401 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:33.160