Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster
Speaker 1: movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brinnie Brownfield and
Speaker 1: I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: Ben Stover, individual therapist.
Speaker 3: Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists.
Speaker 1: We're all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists,
Speaker 1: who practice out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed
Speaker 1: mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for nentertainment purposes
Speaker 1: and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture.
Speaker 3: And all forms.
Speaker 2: Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists,
Speaker 2: we aren't your therapist.
Speaker 1: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find
Speaker 1: a local mental health provider. Hey everyone, So we will
Speaker 1: be talking about e T today by Steven Spielberg. We
Speaker 1: are going to be talking about the family within the movie,
Speaker 1: specifically the separation that occurs with the parents and how
Speaker 1: that changes the family dynamics. We'll also be talking about siblings.
Speaker 1: We're talking about kids when they're left alone to their
Speaker 1: own devices, which is a big component to a lot
Speaker 1: of movies of this time period. We're also going to
Speaker 1: be talking about how adults respond to kids and empathy
Speaker 1: in communication and as always will do treatment and final thoughts.
Speaker 1: For anyone who I don't know has been in a
Speaker 1: coma for the past thirty years and has never seen
Speaker 1: ET or heard ET or anything like that, I guess
Speaker 1: would be forty years by now.
Speaker 3: Forty Oh that's so upsetting.
Speaker 2: Forty four years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, ETO, because it was.
Speaker 1: It came out in nineteen eighty two, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to be forty four this year.
Speaker 2: And how arymore.
Speaker 1: As beautiful as ever? Fifty almost got to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's you know, she was what six six in
Speaker 1: this movie?
Speaker 2: So yeah, forty four plus six is fifty is fifty.
Speaker 3: And that's math corner with Ben Stover. Yep, thanks, not a.
Speaker 2: Corner I suggested follows me too. I am very good
Speaker 2: with words, but numbers.
Speaker 1: So for anyone who's not aware, ET is about a
Speaker 1: young boy he's ten years old, named Elliott. He finds
Speaker 1: a alien in his backyard that he calls ET, and
Speaker 1: he slowly gets to know him via different forms of
Speaker 1: communicating until he realizes that ET needs to.
Speaker 3: Go home, so he helps him go home.
Speaker 1: While various forms of the government are eavesdropping on their
Speaker 1: house listening to their calls, trailing their neighborhood and you know,
Speaker 1: slightly antagonistic to their agenda. So, as I said before,
Speaker 1: we're first going to talk about the family because I think,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, this movie is a lot about a family,
Speaker 1: and a lot of the plot points of this movie
Speaker 1: I think happen or can happen because they are a
Speaker 1: family in change.
Speaker 3: They are a family that's kind of right now.
Speaker 1: We learn pretty early in the movie that their dad
Speaker 1: is no longer in the home with them. We don't
Speaker 1: really know why exactly. All we know is that he
Speaker 1: is not living with them and he's in Mexico with
Speaker 1: some woman named Sally, but we don't really know any
Speaker 1: other context. We do know later in the movie she
Speaker 1: does mentioned that her and her husband are recently separated,
Speaker 1: so I assume they're like not even divorced. And it
Speaker 1: did kind of feel like a recent thing, Like they
Speaker 1: do feel like a household where it is very fresh.
Speaker 1: It feels like it's been like maybe like a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks at the most.
Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of experience with divorce and separation
Speaker 1: and parents not being together, and so one of them
Speaker 1: many times that my parents got.
Speaker 3: Divorced about this.
Speaker 1: Mom really reminds me about like three to four weeks after,
Speaker 1: like things have said in that like he's really not
Speaker 1: coming back, and you start to and that's when you
Speaker 1: start to have to do all the pieces of how
Speaker 1: am I going to do this now on my own?
Speaker 2: Yeah, getting out of the dissociated fugue state that not
Speaker 2: really processing, just surviving and kind of just following the
Speaker 2: motions but maybe having still unrealistic ideas. Are not fully
Speaker 2: able to accept all that's happened because you're going through
Speaker 2: all the court cases and spending all the money. I
Speaker 2: don't know if it cost all of the money in
Speaker 2: the eighties like it does now, because getting divorced now
Speaker 2: is basically all your money. All of it is gone
Speaker 2: to the lawyers clients that I have going through that.
Speaker 2: It's outrageous money. I don't know if it was then.
Speaker 2: But that fugue state eventually ends and reality hits and
Speaker 2: the overwhelm is crushing, And yeah, I don't know how
Speaker 2: long I would guess under six months, So I think,
Speaker 2: you know, whatever she is processing, she has not processed
Speaker 2: yet and is very preoccupied with her anger because every
Speaker 2: moment we see her alone, she's muttering to herself, he
Speaker 2: doesn't even like Mexico. Like there's little comments throughout this
Speaker 2: whole thing about her anger. And there's the moment I
Speaker 2: think when she's sitting alone in her Halloween costume, like
Speaker 2: she's just sitting and straight talking to herself about like
Speaker 2: just that like hashtag arguments I want in the shower
Speaker 2: kind of energy where she's not hallucinating, she's not having
Speaker 2: any mental health crisis other than processing what the fuck
Speaker 2: just happened when her life fell apart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if she's saying recently separated, I would also
Speaker 1: say that's probably been in the last six months, if
Speaker 1: not shorter. And the fact that the dad is already
Speaker 1: vacationing with another woman, to me insinuates that they're probably
Speaker 1: maybe even with some overlap in the situation. Or you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who and I know this
Speaker 1: is kind of a trope against men, So apologies men
Speaker 1: is like start having like a partner right away. Like
Speaker 1: men don't stay single for long post breakups, post divorce.
Speaker 2: They do not usually, I mean usually, once the relationship
Speaker 2: is deteriorating, there's on one side or the other, there's
Speaker 2: often seeking companionship, so it seems quite clear that dad
Speaker 2: had done that and Mom was busy being a mom
Speaker 2: and figuring out whatever she was doing to survive, because
Speaker 2: there's no at least mentioned in this film of Mom
Speaker 2: having any partner at all.
Speaker 1: Could be really cool like my dad and just go
Speaker 1: from one woman's bed to the next. That's why me
Speaker 1: and my sister are only five months apart to the day.
Speaker 1: We are currently both the same age.
Speaker 2: Which obviously happened with one woman right.
Speaker 3: Right, two ladies.
Speaker 1: But no, I think watching this now is like an
Speaker 1: adult woman watching it with an adult therapist's brain. I
Speaker 1: was really clocking what you're talking about, Ben, which is
Speaker 1: this movie actually does a really good job at writing
Speaker 1: a fully flagh parent, like she's fully fleshed out as
Speaker 1: a character, even though the movie is not really following her.
Speaker 1: It's not about her. And it also I think allows
Speaker 1: us as the audience to have a way clear understanding
Speaker 1: of like I said, like why these kids, as we'll
Speaker 1: talk about later, are left alone a lot is that
Speaker 1: she's a mom that is like so frazzled like I
Speaker 1: think a perfect example of this is when Gertie tries
Speaker 1: to show her et like he's right there, and she's
Speaker 1: like there, yeah, honey, Yeah, and she's like in the fridge,
Speaker 1: she's trying to get groceries and the phone's ringing.
Speaker 3: Like she is a woman on the edge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's absolutely on the edge, and she's dissociated as hell.
Speaker 2: She's I mean, when you do a mental status exam,
Speaker 2: preoccupied is one of your options to look at, and
Speaker 2: she would absolutely fall into that category. I see no
Speaker 2: evidence of psychosis. I see anxiety, I see overwhelm. I
Speaker 2: see a clear evidence of adjustment disorder with her, But
Speaker 2: I don't see anything else that I find concerning. She's depressed,
Speaker 2: she's anxious, she's overwhelmed, she's all of that because of
Speaker 2: her circumstances. Outside of that, we don't have any information
Speaker 2: on who she was, how she was before, but we
Speaker 2: can see clearly the main antagonist in her life is
Speaker 2: that she's going through a divorce and she's now raising
Speaker 2: three kids that are quite spaced out in age. I'm
Speaker 2: assuming they're each about four years apart. That's a lot.
Speaker 3: Mike is fifteen, Elliott is ten, and she is six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so pretty close, yeah, right, And that is having
Speaker 2: kids myself that are five point five years apart from
Speaker 2: each other. The developmental issues put you in different mindsets
Speaker 2: that separate your consciousness a lot. And I have two,
Speaker 2: not three and now, and I have a spouse around
Speaker 2: to help with that, and she does not. Now all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, and keeping yourself in the mentality of
Speaker 2: how do I give each of these kids what they
Speaker 2: need as appropriate would be immensely overwhelming. And that's what
Speaker 2: we see is she's just like there's beer. There's beer
Speaker 2: sitting out on the counter, and she's getting a call
Speaker 2: from the school like, uh so your kid is doing
Speaker 2: some real banana shit and acting intoxicid And she's just
Speaker 2: like looking at a beer can and just like cleaning
Speaker 2: up all the masks and like looks at the beer can.
Speaker 2: Then just she smells it.
Speaker 3: No, well she smells it.
Speaker 1: Actually, like I feel like she is like what like
Speaker 1: I feel like too much Like just like we said,
Speaker 1: like she is just she's someone who's like trying to
Speaker 1: go through the motions as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she's trying to get.
Speaker 1: The groceries, get the kid, Like you're right. What also
Speaker 1: sucks about the kids being a part in age is
Speaker 1: you know they're not any of them are attending the
Speaker 1: same school at the same time, which she's like picking
Speaker 1: up one kid now she's getting called from school about
Speaker 1: another before she's even processing the fact that there's like
Speaker 1: an empty beer can on the counter, you know, like
Speaker 1: things are happening before she's had time to think about
Speaker 1: the last thing or the current thing that's happening.
Speaker 2: Right and she's going on like typical parent autopilot of like, Okay,
Speaker 2: if I don't put these girls shees away right now
Speaker 2: in the thirty seconds that I have to do it.
Speaker 2: I mean I can listen to Gertie talk, but also
Speaker 2: like if this doesn't get done, I am going to
Speaker 2: be behind on all the other tests I got to
Speaker 2: do to stay on top of these kids. Like she's
Speaker 2: barely listening, she's not paying attention. She's just focused on
Speaker 2: the test she has to do while also connecting to
Speaker 2: the kids as much as she has mentally available at
Speaker 2: that moment, which is not a lot, which is understandable,
Speaker 2: but recognizing how that creates a little bit of a
Speaker 2: dissociative state where your brain is separated into multiple tests.
Speaker 2: Then add personal shit of processing a divorce. That's where
Speaker 2: when you look at a mental status exam preoccupied would
Speaker 2: fit because clearly she's trying to digest what the fuck
Speaker 2: just happened while also trying to be an only parent
Speaker 2: in a household with three kids a very different age,
Speaker 2: which is a hell of a lot. And then kids
Speaker 2: are also having what she presumes are adjustment issues. But
Speaker 2: you know, of course there's an alien in the house,
Speaker 2: so you know what adult would believe that as their
Speaker 2: first effort, like, yeah, there's just just an alien from
Speaker 2: outer space, just from another planet in my house that
Speaker 2: my kids are interacting with and brought home.
Speaker 1: Everything's fine, honestly, And like her version of the movie,
Speaker 1: I'm sure she's like, this is the last thing I
Speaker 1: need right now, Like in the scene where she finally
Speaker 1: sees et on the ground and she picks the kids
Speaker 1: and she's like what the lock Like I'm sure in
Speaker 1: her head she's like all this stuff and now they've
Speaker 1: brought this dying animal into the house and they want
Speaker 1: me to be cool, because I do think we're I
Speaker 1: also want to give her a lot of credit, and
Speaker 1: I don't know how.
Speaker 3: I do think she's doing this somewhat consciously.
Speaker 1: Is she's she's making an effort not to take out
Speaker 1: any of these feelings on the kids, which I think
Speaker 1: is really great given how we can see.
Speaker 3: How frazzled she is the whole movie.
Speaker 1: The only time she really raises her voice is one
Speaker 1: out of genuine like shock and fear, which the most scenes,
Speaker 1: but like when they're all misbehaving when they go out
Speaker 1: in the backyard in the beginning and she's trying to
Speaker 1: get them all.
Speaker 3: To chill out.
Speaker 1: And what I really like as like a child therapist
Speaker 1: and a family therapist is when the Mexico scene happens
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the movie, when they finally let
Speaker 1: it slip, which also sucks because then that means that
Speaker 1: there's some secret keeping going on. Maybe you'll talk about
Speaker 1: the siblings, Hannah, but there's some responsibility the kids are
Speaker 1: feeling to like not tell mom everything for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: And I do appreciate that she gets up and walks
Speaker 1: away from the table and goes to the sink, and
Speaker 1: she tries to act normal, but she's clearly like upset,
Speaker 1: and ye she's crying. They can tell she's upset because
Speaker 1: they're all human beings. But I do appreciate that she
Speaker 1: even those moments when she's muttering around Mexico she's really
Speaker 1: doing that by herself, Like she's not talking really ill
Speaker 1: about their dad in front of them, Like she has
Speaker 1: the bad moment where she says like, you don't even
Speaker 1: like Mexico in front of them, But to me that
Speaker 1: felt more like a human moment, Like I do feel
Speaker 1: like she's seems to be trying her best to not
Speaker 1: spill any of her bullshit onto the kids, maybe because
Speaker 1: the dad is doing all this stuff, which I think
Speaker 1: is what happens when I work with families or something
Speaker 1: like this is going on, is that there's one parent
Speaker 1: who's trying to like keep their shit together, usually the
Speaker 1: primary caregiver parent and show up well sometimes because the
Speaker 1: other parent is doing whatever the fuck they want and
Speaker 1: like they're so this I deal a lot with parents
Speaker 1: as individual clients where they're really just trying to like
Speaker 1: keep everything stable in reaction to the other parent kind
Speaker 1: of causing so much disruption in the family. And I
Speaker 1: think you're seeing that here too. And so she's also
Speaker 1: I think trying to put on a brave face, like
Speaker 1: even her dressing up for Halloween, I feel like, is
Speaker 1: her trying to put on a brave face for her
Speaker 1: kids while she is like tore up inside and we're
Speaker 1: seeing it leak out in these moments when she's like Mexico. Like,
Speaker 1: are these little beats that I really like that Steven
Speaker 1: Spielberg puts in here, which I feel like is the
Speaker 1: Spielberg like sauce where he can put these little moments
Speaker 1: into movies to make them feel more like special and human.
Speaker 1: And I feel like, I really this is like the
Speaker 1: first time I really was impressed by the use of
Speaker 1: the mom in this movie to do a lot of that,
Speaker 1: because I feel like in any other movie the parents'
Speaker 1: is not around and you don't know why they're not
Speaker 1: around and why the kids getting away with all this stuff,
Speaker 1: or like, yeah, like where the parents are just MIAs
Speaker 1: usually the lazy storywriting version of this, And I like
Speaker 1: with this version that she feels like a full character
Speaker 1: and these beats help you understand how plot wise this
Speaker 1: is all unfolding. But yeah, like even she lets Elliott
Speaker 1: stay home because she thinks he's sick, well, he tells
Speaker 1: he's sick. She comes home and his room is fucking wrecked,
Speaker 1: and even then she doesn't yell at him. She's just
Speaker 1: like this room, what she say, this isn't a room.
Speaker 1: This is like an accident.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So I feel like she's trying to keep her cool
Speaker 1: while she's probably just fucking burnout of shit though I
Speaker 1: don't even know she has the energy to be like
Speaker 1: I can't believe her almost like this, She's just like, well,
Speaker 1: and now your room's destroyed.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go have a glass of wine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like this is a I do
Speaker 1: feel like she's trying really hard to keep her shit together.
Speaker 1: She's trying really hard to not take it out in
Speaker 1: her kids, and those are some things that can be
Speaker 1: really hard to do when you're at this age of
Speaker 1: being separated, but also having all the weight put on
Speaker 1: you or all the weight always being on you, and
Speaker 1: now being in a position where you absolutely have no
Speaker 1: one who can help or no one who can be supportive.
Speaker 1: So I feel like it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: I have always had nice feelings about the mom, I
Speaker 1: think in general, and I think it's because she's not
Speaker 1: bad mouthing the dad in front of the kids. But
Speaker 1: also my experience of divorce was very My parents are
Speaker 1: very unwell people, and so it was very intense all
Speaker 1: the time. But even like this common like my dad
Speaker 1: would just be gone, and like you just didn't know
Speaker 1: when you were going to see him again or if
Speaker 1: you were going to see him again. So it was
Speaker 1: always like this constant So your parents always in this
Speaker 1: constant sense of like just trying to make shit work.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's really where we're seeing her
Speaker 1: in this portrayal of her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really important to connect to the
Speaker 2: humanity you see here and that she is, even though
Speaker 2: she has some moments where she does not behave optimally
Speaker 2: who does? Who can? And especially in circumstances where life
Speaker 2: is happening to you right now, in all of the
Speaker 2: ways simultaneously, all of the third standard deviation, the most rare,
Speaker 2: ridiculous things are happening. The impact and destruction that has
Speaker 2: on your your psyche, your sanity, your sense of self.
Speaker 2: These little moments like you're saying that Spielberg put in,
Speaker 2: we see the devastation, Like she's in her Halloween costume
Speaker 2: and she's just sitting by herself.
Speaker 1: That scene makes my stomach hurt. I don't like that scene.
Speaker 1: It's too much, it's too real.
Speaker 2: The kids are all old enough that they abandon her.
Speaker 2: She's clearly it was like looking forward to like doing
Speaker 2: the thing, and I assume she would have done that
Speaker 2: with her husband and whatever party they would have gone to,
Speaker 2: and does go to a party, she goes somewhere they.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I really feel she's just setting
Speaker 1: in her costume at home, which is happening to.
Speaker 3: Herself, I think, to make herself happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she was going somewhere, but I think
Speaker 1: she was just really trying to like be the like
Speaker 1: happy mom Halloween.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think, I mean, I think all of that.
Speaker 2: And then once the kids are out, I think she
Speaker 2: was really counting on maybe taking Gerdye around. But Girty's
Speaker 2: part of the plan, and then that's true. Mom is
Speaker 2: just kind of by herself. But she gets in a
Speaker 2: car and goes somewhere.
Speaker 1: Does she yep, Well, she goes to look for the
Speaker 1: kids because they haven't come home. Like she's stomping around
Speaker 1: outside by.
Speaker 3: The car and is like where these kids? Where the
Speaker 3: fuck are these kids?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why she gets that's where she's going.
Speaker 3: But no, I don't feel that she doesn't really have
Speaker 3: a social life.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's one scene where like off screen
Speaker 1: she kind of like answers the phone or calls someone.
Speaker 1: It sounds like maybe she's talking to a friend, like hey, Charmaine,
Speaker 1: like that kind of tone. But that's it, and so
Speaker 1: we don't really know. Yeah, we just don't know a
Speaker 1: lot like this movie does a good job of not
Speaker 1: worrying about giving us too many details, but enough details
Speaker 1: that we get the vibe right because also like thinking
Speaker 1: about the time period, you know, and all the truly
Speaker 1: I would I'm with you, Ben, like kind of wild
Speaker 1: choices she makes with leaving the kids home alone, even
Speaker 1: though I know there's a part of that's a little
Speaker 1: of the time, but you know, I wonder if she
Speaker 1: was working before, like if she had to start working again,
Speaker 1: and that's why she's doing things like letting Elliott stay
Speaker 1: home sick by himself, Like can she find childcare?
Speaker 3: Does she have childcare?
Speaker 1: Doesn't seem like there's any family around, Like there's nobody
Speaker 1: family wise we hear anything about from either side of
Speaker 1: the family. They are living in I think Los Angeles
Speaker 1: because of that overhead that shot, that famous shot look
Speaker 1: out spot shots. So they don't maybe they're transplants, I
Speaker 1: don't know, but they definitely feel also like a very
Speaker 1: I don't know there is something kind of lonely about
Speaker 1: the family, like they do feel like they've got each other,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of it. I think that when you
Speaker 1: go through a separation like that, that's that is as
Speaker 1: unexpected as what it sounds like that.
Speaker 3: I lost my kind of thought, ring ing ing, I will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think that when a family is going
Speaker 1: through a change like this that's kind of unexpected, that
Speaker 1: there is a lot of there is a lot of
Speaker 1: isolation that I think that the kids feel and the
Speaker 1: family feels because it feels like you're not like other families.
Speaker 1: It feels like, you know, your parents couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 1: I mean, it feels very much like it's really hard
Speaker 1: to not feel lonely and isolated, especially if there was
Speaker 1: a parent. I mean, we see the one scene with
Speaker 1: the with Mike and Elliott. They're talking about something that
Speaker 1: their dad used to take them to. I never really
Speaker 1: noticed that scene that much before, but that was gut wrenching.
Speaker 1: It really was like them remembering doing fun stuff with their.
Speaker 2: Dad and like smelling the shirt and.
Speaker 1: That it doesn't really happen anymore, and that it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen anymore, and like they it seems like the kids
Speaker 1: don't know when they'll see him again, you know, and
Speaker 1: so I feel like there is a sense of isolation.
Speaker 1: There's a sense of I feel like also in some
Speaker 1: ways there's even a sense of like, is there something
Speaker 1: wrong with us the reason that ways why he's not here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there definitely is a mild vibe that like Dad has
Speaker 1: ditched us, because yeah, when they're reminiscing in the garage,
Speaker 1: I believe smelling his shirt and they're talking about remember
Speaker 1: when Dad would take us to the movies and to games,
Speaker 1: and they're talking about it as if like remember when,
Speaker 1: like they're nostalgic at the age of like ten and
Speaker 1: fifteen about the times they used to have with their dad.
Speaker 1: And then Mike says that'll happen again one day or
Speaker 1: something like that, that'll happen again sometime soon. It's such
Speaker 1: a common thing for an older sibling to say, like
Speaker 1: I literally remember. We're saying something similar to my siblings
Speaker 1: of like, hey, like he forgot this time, but he
Speaker 1: won't forget next time. My dad used to do a
Speaker 1: lot of forgetting us on the weekends, and so there
Speaker 1: was a lot of explanation around that.
Speaker 3: A lot of the time.
Speaker 1: But I literally remember saying something like that to my siblings.
Speaker 2: That makes sense, and I think something interesting along these
Speaker 2: lines that I just looked up. I was trying to
Speaker 2: figure out when the time period is. So this movie
Speaker 2: takes place in eighty two, right, so.
Speaker 1: It came out on June eleventh, nineteen eighty two. I
Speaker 1: looked it up because I wanted to know if I
Speaker 1: was born yet, So I was not.
Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty one was the peak of divorce rate in
Speaker 2: the country, so these kids might not have been so
Speaker 2: alone in that eighty two was the start of a decline.
Speaker 2: But a lot of people would this is this is
Speaker 2: right when women could get credit cards and things and
Speaker 2: weren't trapped in marriages at the same rate.
Speaker 1: I would argue to say that women are still trapped
Speaker 1: in marriages. Well, but you're either here or no there, No,
Speaker 1: you're right, like, this is the time of women had
Speaker 1: a lot more systemic autonomy.
Speaker 2: Systemic autonomy, right, like at least a way out that
Speaker 2: they could get credit themselves, not saying that there aren't
Speaker 2: other systemic things that would keep them trapped, because of
Speaker 2: course they know that the world is fucked and being
Speaker 2: born female comes with the host of problems aren't fair.
Speaker 2: We'll just accept that. But the thing that I think
Speaker 2: recognizing is that there's probably quite a few of their
Speaker 2: friends that are also going through crazy divorce and all
Speaker 2: the stuff that's that's happening, and realizing these kids maybe
Speaker 2: might not feel it as alone in this as we should,
Speaker 2: but also still their world is flying apart, so everything
Speaker 2: that they knew, regardless of if other people are also
Speaker 2: going through it, is still collapsing in this sadness of
Speaker 2: looking at them like trying to remember the way their
Speaker 2: dad's deodorant would smell like old spice, and the older
Speaker 2: brother cracking that going like nope, that's babreeze or whatever.
Speaker 2: The sound of voices and the smells of things disappear
Speaker 2: from our mind really fast, but old factory senses are
Speaker 2: the strongest and most powerful reactions we have, So that
Speaker 2: scene really would call up a lot of responses for
Speaker 2: these kids, that the feelings of being forgotten and left
Speaker 2: behind and that you'd never have that again, and that
Speaker 2: rush of emotion they'd be getting from that smell can't
Speaker 2: be replicated by anything else. Smell is our most powerful
Speaker 2: react to your old factory smell. And taste, because that's
Speaker 2: what keeps us from eating shit that's rotten. It's our
Speaker 2: most potent memory. Things smell of a perfume can transport
Speaker 2: you through time, and these kids experiencing that was put
Speaker 2: in on purpose to be tragic.
Speaker 1: I would say that as much as I agree that
Speaker 1: divorce is happening all across the board, it was still
Speaker 1: something that was pretty taboo at the time because I
Speaker 1: know that.
Speaker 3: We didn't talk to it.
Speaker 1: We didn't talk to it, and I mean that was
Speaker 1: probably could also have been just a thing in my
Speaker 1: family because there's so much stuff that we wouldn't talk about.
Speaker 1: But like we didn't tell anybody what was ever going
Speaker 1: on with our family because it was like a big
Speaker 1: deal if you got divorced, like that meant something. I
Speaker 1: felt like in the nineties when that was when I
Speaker 1: was like maybe in like fourth grade, probably it probably
Speaker 1: had been divorced twice by then.
Speaker 3: I want to say, maybe three times something like that.
Speaker 1: So anyway, but I just I'm remembering the time and
Speaker 1: like it wasn't something that we were talking about with
Speaker 1: our friends, Like it wasn't something that came up back then.
Speaker 2: No, No, And the just because it was a historic high,
Speaker 2: doesn't mean it would have been something that was socially acceptable.
Speaker 2: On being othered is never good in humanity, and feeling
Speaker 2: othered and just trying to survive but feeling like all
Speaker 2: eyes are on you is not good.
Speaker 1: But I would say that the t shirt smelling scene
Speaker 1: or the shirt selling scene does seem to like that
Speaker 1: confirms that they haven't seen their dad in a while,
Speaker 1: at least not in a way that feels fun like
Speaker 1: that or positive like that. And also, though I know
Speaker 1: they sort of put a stamp on the dad thing
Speaker 1: in the movie by saying he's in Mexico, right, but
Speaker 1: I do think there is something somewhat telling that none
Speaker 1: of the kids, Michael or Elliott, make any attempt to
Speaker 1: reach out to their dad, even in Mexico when all
Speaker 1: this shit gets crazy, like when the government comes and
Speaker 1: they're quarantined, and like Michael just falls asleep in the closet.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe that was the time you can't do
Speaker 3: long distant goals to Mexico.
Speaker 1: Who knows if they even know where he's staying or anything,
Speaker 1: but I think it does feel it as if he's
Speaker 1: even telling the truth about where he is. In the
Speaker 1: first fucking place.
Speaker 2: Well true, and they made a point if like on
Speaker 2: the TV to show like the long distance calls being expensive.
Speaker 2: I assume that also wasn't an accident. They had a
Speaker 2: commercial like, oh, it's Uncle Kenny. It's so far away,
Speaker 2: it's so expensive, this must be an important call that.
Speaker 2: I don't think that was an accident.
Speaker 1: But I just think it's telling that the Dad is
Speaker 1: like a void that you don't really hear the kids
Speaker 1: other than Elliott saying in the beginning, Dad would have
Speaker 1: believed me, which I think is more him just trying
Speaker 1: to make a point with Mom. There aren't really any
Speaker 1: conversations happening of like I wish we could call Dad,
Speaker 1: I wish Dad was here, Like Dad is a non entity.
Speaker 1: His memory is there, but like him as like an
Speaker 1: adult in their life that they would feel comfortable reaching
Speaker 1: out to when they want him for help, isn't.
Speaker 2: There, right, Yeah, it's clear that they all understand that
Speaker 2: Dad sucks right now, if not always or most of
Speaker 2: the time, Like Dad has sucked from X time period
Speaker 2: except for the time when he didn't.
Speaker 1: He's just not in the equation, Like these kids aren't
Speaker 1: thinking of him as part of the equation. At all, really,
Speaker 1: And I think that really shows What that really makes
Speaker 1: me think of is like Dad has been disconnected from
Speaker 1: the kids for quite some time, that it hasn't just
Speaker 1: been the six months that he's been gone. The way
Speaker 1: that those two kids looked at them looked at each
Speaker 1: other when they talked about that shirt and talked about
Speaker 1: the fun stuff they used to get to do, that
Speaker 1: didn't sound like that happened a year ago. That happened
Speaker 1: like it had been maybe a couple of years since
Speaker 1: that had happened. So it also feels like they are
Speaker 1: also grieving, which is a natural part of this experience
Speaker 1: of grieving stuff with their dad. And when Elliott, what
Speaker 1: I thought when Elliott said that was Dad would believe me,
Speaker 1: is that that just came out of his mouth like
Speaker 1: that was the thought he was having in his brain
Speaker 1: of like, oh, I bet if I told Dad he
Speaker 1: would believe me, like not like yes, maybe to step
Speaker 1: on mom's toes, but also just like a natural response.
Speaker 3: He said it the way my braddy ass would have
Speaker 3: said it at that age, which is Doubl'll believe me,
Speaker 3: like I think he said it to get mom's goat,
Speaker 3: which I respect. I'm not gonna. I mean, it was a.
Speaker 1: Braddy thing to say, and I think he said it
Speaker 1: on purpose, But I don't mean I don't think he's
Speaker 1: thinking hard enough about it at all, because I do
Speaker 1: think we're about to slide into the next part, which
Speaker 1: is the sibling dynamic. Is there anything else we want
Speaker 1: to say more about the systemic change with than the family.
Speaker 2: No, I think we've covered it, and taking a break
Speaker 2: here would make sense. So let's do that. Let's take
Speaker 2: that break, and we'll come back and talk about sibling dynamics.
Speaker 1: So I think once again we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the dinner table scene with the Mexico conversation where No,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the one later when I think this
Speaker 1: show also does I think this movie also does a
Speaker 1: good job of showing how siblings relationships can change too
Speaker 1: when there is a system change like this, Because in
Speaker 1: that same conversation we been talking about where they let
Speaker 1: it spill that Dad's in Mexico, the whole kind of
Speaker 1: cascading situation that happens, the beats that happen right after that,
Speaker 1: where Mike gets mad at Elliott because Mom's upset in
Speaker 1: the corner of the kitchen and Mike is clocking mom
Speaker 1: and being like, you're you okay, and holding each other
Speaker 1: responsible as the children for Mom's feelings. Even though, like
Speaker 1: I said, I give mom credit, I don't feel like
Speaker 1: she's trying her best to not make the kids very
Speaker 1: aware of what a wreck she is as much as
Speaker 1: she's sort of not pulling it off. Is how it
Speaker 1: will also change the sibling dynamic, where there's more of
Speaker 1: a sometimes a police and going on of what's happening.
Speaker 1: I was going to say that I feel like a
Speaker 1: part of the reason why we don't hear them talk
Speaker 1: about dad is because they're worried about upsetting their mom.
Speaker 1: And that's the reason why he feels so distant in conversation,
Speaker 1: because that's one of the things that I remember. My
Speaker 1: parents were horrible about each other when we were together,
Speaker 1: so like they'd both talk shit about each other, say
Speaker 1: all kinds of horrible things, and then when we would
Speaker 1: come back, both parents did this. When we would come back,
Speaker 1: they would ask, what did your mom say about me?
Speaker 1: What did your dad say about me? Like that's the
Speaker 1: kind of end. Like, luckily that doesn't sound like that
Speaker 1: is happening, but it sounds like this is more about
Speaker 1: the kids protecting mom than it is about them not
Speaker 1: wanting to reach out to dad.
Speaker 2: Which tracks because we see Elliott get shitty and Mom
Speaker 2: break down. Dad would have believe me, and then she
Speaker 2: That leads to see Brittany was describing earlier. She's at
Speaker 2: the sink and clearly weeping, and that tracks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is always such a bummer, And I
Speaker 1: give why kids do it, because I did shit like
Speaker 1: that with like my siblings.
Speaker 3: I'm the oldest where we would and I look.
Speaker 1: Back on this, and of course I don't look back
Speaker 1: on it fondly in terms of like how I behaved
Speaker 1: at times is where we would hold each other accountable
Speaker 1: for upsetting our mom and something sort of similar, and
Speaker 1: how unfair that is that we as kids will do
Speaker 1: that to each other, Like you shouldn't have said that,
Speaker 1: or you should been thinking about how mom feels, Like
Speaker 1: what does Mike say? Why are you so selfish? Why
Speaker 1: you think about other people? And it's like you're all children,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like you're gonna say silly things,
Speaker 1: You're gonna put your foot in your mouth, like that's
Speaker 1: part of being a kid. You shouldn't have to worry
Speaker 1: about it. And even though their mom doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: be asking that of them, I think it's very telling
Speaker 1: that Mike is kind of holding, which is what happens.
Speaker 1: The older sibling, who's more aware of how mom is feeling,
Speaker 1: is probably more aware of the dynamics of what's going on.
Speaker 1: Mike's probably the one who's in the most know with
Speaker 1: what's going on with Dad, And just because he has
Speaker 1: more knowledge, he's got he's lived more life, he's of
Speaker 1: dating age, like, he kind of has more of a
Speaker 1: sense of what's going on, and him trying to make
Speaker 1: mom feel better by clamping down on the younger kids
Speaker 1: in a way that's not fair, and they're not going
Speaker 1: to realize how unfair that is until, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: ten twenty years.
Speaker 2: Do you see Mike's friends, He is a year away
Speaker 2: from dating age. They're playing D and D and headphones,
Speaker 2: riding bikes. I guess he's a year away from dating age.
Speaker 2: He's on the football teams. He's got help but like
Speaker 2: and like fighting, but nobody what you're saying.
Speaker 1: And he's more aware of like who Sally is to
Speaker 1: Dad than the other two siblings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, he knows whats the fus up. He's
Speaker 3: like one.
Speaker 1: He probably talks with Mom more privately like it, just
Speaker 1: like he probably leans on him more just because he's
Speaker 1: he's so much older to like, fifteen is a big
Speaker 1: jump from ten, and so he's gonna naturally be asked
Speaker 1: to do more and to be more up.
Speaker 3: And he's already doing this stuff like back in the car.
Speaker 1: Out of the driveway, I only know how to drive
Speaker 1: in reverse, and so's it's such a real moment when
Speaker 1: he gets mad at Elliott, as if Elliot should know better,
Speaker 1: and it's like he's ten, He's not going to understand
Speaker 1: the nuanced machinations of what's happening.
Speaker 2: Right truly, No, of course not, I mean and when
Speaker 2: that's the fun of fifteen year olds is that they
Speaker 2: think that they are so grown up in adult and
Speaker 2: that they understand the world. But what they don't understand
Speaker 2: is that the ten year old doesn't remotely have the
Speaker 2: cognitive capacity that you do at all, and he doesn't
Speaker 2: see the world the way that you do and know
Speaker 2: he shouldn't just know what you know.
Speaker 1: And also, Mike, if you are really that worry about mom,
Speaker 1: why are you stressing her up? But ordering pizza without
Speaker 1: her permission for the D and D party and causing
Speaker 1: so much hubbub and not let Elliott play like they're
Speaker 1: also causing your own stuff, which is fine because you're
Speaker 1: also fifteen. You're not supposed to be not able to
Speaker 1: break the rules and act up a little bit and
Speaker 1: act like a teenager, but it is.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm going inwhere.
Speaker 1: With that, but I think that that tiny little scene
Speaker 1: in the movie is such a good example of how
Speaker 1: the sibling dynamic can be impacted by divorce, even if
Speaker 1: the parent isn't really asserting that, especially in this situation
Speaker 1: where there's the parent that stays and the parent that left,
Speaker 1: and how the kids can be very protective of the
Speaker 1: parent that stays. Well.
Speaker 2: I know we talked about the idea of a parentified
Speaker 2: child a lot in other episodes. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: go into that, but I was surprised to see that
Speaker 2: Mike only takes a little bit of the parentified child role.
Speaker 2: He still kind of feels like older brother, not necessarily
Speaker 2: he's been put in charge of the other kids, like
Speaker 2: Mom leans on him him a little bit more, but
Speaker 2: it didn't feel like she was making him a coping No.
Speaker 1: I agree, which is part of why I reap for
Speaker 1: this mom is that I think he's like he's going
Speaker 1: to football practice, He's coming in when he's done with practice.
Speaker 1: He's not like rushing home because he is to watch
Speaker 1: his brother. He's yeah, you're right, Like he still feels
Speaker 1: like a big brother in a out of ways who's
Speaker 1: just a little bit more keen in and probably has
Speaker 1: had to grow up a little bit. But I also
Speaker 1: think the eat we haven't even talked about, the fucking alien,
Speaker 1: the et of it all, the fucking alien in this movie,
Speaker 1: I think that also makes him grow up too, But
Speaker 1: he does. He is a very good big brother, Like
Speaker 1: I think about him going I mean Jonathan from Stranger
Speaker 1: Things is obviously ripped right off of him, but like
Speaker 1: him going to get et when Elliott can't find him.
Speaker 1: Like they do a really good job, which I think
Speaker 1: is also something that happens with siblings when something happens
Speaker 1: in their family, is they can also bond together and
Speaker 1: get really protective of each other. And I think you
Speaker 1: see that happen in this movie, where they do a
Speaker 1: good job of like taking care of each other and
Speaker 1: like keeping secrets in a way that I think is
Speaker 1: not age and appropriate for kids, you know, especially with
Speaker 1: something so bat shit as finding an alien. And also
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a part of them that's like, Mom
Speaker 1: can't handle this. Mom's got enough going on besides an
Speaker 1: alien that I have snuck into our home and I'm
Speaker 1: keeping in our closet after she has told me expressly
Speaker 1: to leave it alone.
Speaker 3: Whatever's going on outside.
Speaker 2: I mean, And there's there's so much stranger things in ET,
Speaker 2: especially season one, but there's there's so much. I thought
Speaker 2: that too. I was like, as you're talking about Mom,
Speaker 2: I was thinking, like, oh my god, season one, Karen
Speaker 2: Wheeler is this mom and.
Speaker 3: Joy Spires too. You get that combo of them both
Speaker 3: that too.
Speaker 2: Joyce is, yeah, her like being distressed and stuff. But
Speaker 2: I thought about Karen because even though the dead is present,
Speaker 2: he's a fucking potato and her managing everything by herself,
Speaker 2: even though Joyce is doing that too and frazzled. Joyce
Speaker 2: gains a lot more power, a lot faster takes care
Speaker 2: in a couple of seasons to gain some power. She's
Speaker 2: kind of frazzled and just lost for a while, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm going to I'm doing this by myself,
Speaker 2: like just oblivious to what's going on, including that there
Speaker 2: is a child in her basement that does not belong
Speaker 2: to her and she's just totally ripped from this mom.
Speaker 2: And I mean, of course it is, but man, the
Speaker 2: sibling dynamics. Looking at this, mom must be doing a
Speaker 2: pretty good job to keep these kids living kid life,
Speaker 2: because none of them seem to be really feeling older
Speaker 2: than they're supposed to be. Seems to be keeping them
Speaker 2: kind of age appropriate, Like Gerty's still walking around with
Speaker 2: a dolly and thinking about being a cowgirl and being
Speaker 2: a kid, and Elliott is still more or less operating
Speaker 2: like a ten year old, and Mike is operating like
Speaker 2: a fifteen year old. He may need to be pulled
Speaker 2: aside and be like, hey, bro, I know you got
Speaker 2: your your friends here, and like, but bro.
Speaker 1: At some point, well that part of it too made
Speaker 1: me wonder, going back to the family dynamic changing, is
Speaker 1: mom kind of in this weird period with the kids
Speaker 1: where she's like they're like testing her authority a little
Speaker 1: bit too, like I told you not to do that,
Speaker 1: Like there's no like I'm going to tell your father anymore.
Speaker 1: You know, if she was more of the softer parent.
Speaker 1: Dad was the harder parent. Then there were some few
Speaker 1: moments in the movie, especially in the beginning, where I
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, she's trying to assert her authority and
Speaker 1: they're not listening.
Speaker 3: And I wonder if that has to do with the
Speaker 3: change in the dynamic.
Speaker 2: Maybe, And actually, I actually, as you're talking about this,
Speaker 2: I found myself wondering if Mike is reverting a little
Speaker 2: bit and he's not maybe even being encouraged to age,
Speaker 2: because like, thinking about being a fifteen year old football player,
Speaker 2: like the last goddamn place I'd be was in my
Speaker 2: house growing up, Like that was the last place I
Speaker 2: was trying to be. And then he's there playing games
Speaker 2: with his friends, who are all also clearly a little
Speaker 2: emotionally regressed. And I wonder if mom's not doing a
Speaker 2: ton to encourage him to also grow up that maybe
Speaker 2: would have been done had Dad been in the picture.
Speaker 2: And that's keeping there more tight knit sibling dynamic present,
Speaker 2: which is probably easier for her that she's kind of
Speaker 2: the system is requiring him to be around more, which
Speaker 2: is keeping him more grounded to his younger siblings than
Speaker 2: his older peers. He's got football posters on the wall
Speaker 2: and he's clearly wearing a Joe Antana new jersey non
Speaker 2: jersey because they didn't license the things to say in them.
Speaker 2: But he's connecting to that stuff but not quite yet
Speaker 2: hitting the teenage puberty, girl crazy, etc. That we typically
Speaker 2: see starting to emerge around this time. It's the crossover time.
Speaker 2: So it's an interesting one for him because some kids
Speaker 2: figure out like, oh girls exist, sorry, bro right around
Speaker 2: this stage, but other times they don't, and they stick
Speaker 2: to their pack of friends who maybe need reminders to
Speaker 2: shower a little too often.
Speaker 1: Still, yeah, I was thinking a little bit about how
Speaker 1: they are. How a part of Mike still being fifteen
Speaker 1: and still feeling like he's not being asked to do
Speaker 1: a lot of different things is also because I'm curious
Speaker 1: if Dad didn't really do a lot and maybe Mom's
Speaker 1: always done a lot. And it also made me think
Speaker 1: of the pushing back and trying to assert themselves in
Speaker 1: a different way because maybe dad. Maybe that's how Dad
Speaker 1: treated mom, And sometimes kids can pick up on that
Speaker 1: because that's how they see their dad treats their mom.
Speaker 1: We don't know that, we won't know that, but it's
Speaker 1: just something that popped into my head. Too, because sometimes
Speaker 1: the way that we see people interact in relationships is
Speaker 1: the way that we also think that relationships should go,
Speaker 1: because that's the only kind of relationships we've been shown.
Speaker 1: So if dad like walked all over mom a little bit, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and maybe the kids walk over mom a little bit too.
Speaker 2: Or just didn't do shit and they leave her to do.
Speaker 3: It, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: But I think you're making a good point about Mike
Speaker 1: probably is a little stunted just because also in this
Speaker 1: situation where your dad's kind of fucked off and you
Speaker 1: have siblings that are so much younger than you, and
Speaker 1: you probably don't feel I could see in his position
Speaker 1: feeling like I can't go fuck off as much myself
Speaker 1: right now, Like I can't go party or just go
Speaker 1: off to friend's houses, like feeling more inclined to, Hey,
Speaker 1: come play D and D at our house, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to maybe spend more time around your younger siblings
Speaker 1: in a way that keeps you more Yeah, just keeps
Speaker 1: you more stuck in that time, because I could see me,
Speaker 1: even if I wasn't prentified, just wanting to maybe be
Speaker 1: around more and and just not feeling is able to
Speaker 1: like fuck off and do stuff that I wanted to
Speaker 1: do because Mom might need me to do the dishes
Speaker 1: or something like that in a way that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: think of if this change in the family hadn't happened.
Speaker 2: That's all very possible, And it seems like maybe Mike
Speaker 2: is not even aware that he's picking up on that,
Speaker 2: But Mom does, you know, frequently ask them to like
Speaker 2: keep an eye on Gerdy, so they are getting a
Speaker 2: bit of that role. I don't find that to be
Speaker 2: too much more than I think any parent would ask
Speaker 2: look after your little sister.
Speaker 1: Well, and also she's doing it for like can I
Speaker 1: watch her so I can take a shower, Like she's
Speaker 1: asking them to watch Gerty so she can do basic
Speaker 1: at stuff, not so she can like go have fun
Speaker 1: with friends or go fuck off you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: a fuck off herself. Like she's asking for basic stuff
Speaker 1: because well, even though she does leave Gerdy by herself
Speaker 1: in the house, which is wild once she goes to
Speaker 1: But I guess if you're I feel like if she
Speaker 1: was my client, I could see how she would tell
Speaker 1: me that I'm like and she would feel shamed about
Speaker 1: it like I was, So I could see her reflecting
Speaker 1: on them being like I can't believe I did that,
Speaker 1: but her being so swept up in like the school's calling.
Speaker 1: Like I've worked with plenty of parents that are ragged
Speaker 1: like that and they just have to make not great
Speaker 1: split decisions in the moment because they don't have support.
Speaker 1: But any who, I feel like we're going away from
Speaker 1: going back into So I know there'stuff you want to
Speaker 1: say about siblings, Sanna, Yeah, so it just really makes
Speaker 1: me think of you know, we've been talking a little
Speaker 1: bit here and there about how the kids seem really
Speaker 1: bonded to each other. The kids really seem like their
Speaker 1: own little group, which is really which, like you said,
Speaker 1: based on the ages, you know, can be kind of
Speaker 1: hard to do. I'm the oldest of the children that
Speaker 1: my mother physically had, and I had that big of
Speaker 1: age range.
Speaker 3: Me and my brother Nick are ten years apart.
Speaker 1: Me and my youngest sibling Abby are twelve years apart,
Speaker 1: and Megan were eleven years apart. So I had a
Speaker 1: lot of but I did everything. I mean, I picked
Speaker 1: everybody up from school, I took people to school, I
Speaker 1: took him to practice, I picked him up for practice,
Speaker 1: like I did all the things. So what I don't
Speaker 1: think Mike is either a not being asked yet or
Speaker 1: maybe his mom really is trying to avoid putting him
Speaker 1: in that position the much as much as she can,
Speaker 1: you know. So, I feel like what I really like
Speaker 1: about the way that the kids talk to each other
Speaker 1: is that he does a really good job. Steven Spielberg
Speaker 1: does a really good job of showing what kids are
Speaker 1: like when they're siblings, and I feel like that's something
Speaker 1: I've always enjoyed about his films. And I feel like
Speaker 1: the way that they kind of tease each other but
Speaker 1: then also have their backs when something's happening right away,
Speaker 1: The way that they both talk to Gerty and this
Speaker 1: kind of like they understand that she's younger, but they
Speaker 1: also try to include her. But she also kind of
Speaker 1: knows the rules about like the things she's allowed to
Speaker 1: do and not allowed to do in some ways I
Speaker 1: feel like with her brothers. And I feel like that
Speaker 1: can be really common when parents are getting divorced, because
Speaker 1: in some ways, like I said, it kids isolating a
Speaker 1: little bit and you.
Speaker 3: Really need to have each other's backs.
Speaker 1: It could also be something where what if mom and
Speaker 1: dad fought all the time, something that I would do
Speaker 1: as a kid whose parents fought all the time, was
Speaker 1: take all my siblings into a room so they couldn't
Speaker 1: hear what was happening. So again, it makes me curious
Speaker 1: if this family has seen a little bit more of
Speaker 1: that maybe, and that's another part of that's another reason
Speaker 1: why they're so bonded to each other. But I really
Speaker 1: enjoy the way that they problem solve together, the way
Speaker 1: that yes, Mike has to see the alien before he
Speaker 1: believes that, but also, what fifteen year old brother, What
Speaker 1: fifteen year old sibling wouldn't feel the same way if
Speaker 1: you're youngest, if your ten year old sibling told you
Speaker 1: there was an alien and that they had it proof
Speaker 1: in their bedroom, you'd be like, yeah, okay, the exact
Speaker 1: way that Mike acts when he's in that room, it
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. But I think what we're
Speaker 1: seeing is that when one parent is gone, it's really
Speaker 1: tricky for the family. No matter how involved their dad
Speaker 1: was or wasn't, it's really tricky to see who's going
Speaker 1: to stand in a different place. As we know, families
Speaker 1: all have different roles. Everybody has a different role in
Speaker 1: the family, and when one main person is now out
Speaker 1: of that group, we all have to readjust and readapt
Speaker 1: to how we can now work this dynamic that has
Speaker 1: now been completely changed. And that's a big part of
Speaker 1: what I feel like I see or talk about with
Speaker 1: people who either their parents were divorced when they were young,
Speaker 1: or even parents who were even adults who have parents
Speaker 1: who are divorcing now, Like, that's a big part of
Speaker 1: managing and figuring out how are we going to interact
Speaker 1: in the family now, And it can be tricky because
Speaker 1: everybody's trying to figure out their place. And so I
Speaker 1: also feel like some of the behavior that Elliott has,
Speaker 1: some of the behavior that Mike has towards mom, just
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense because their kids and they're
Speaker 1: going through something where the person that they thought was
Speaker 1: always going to be there is not going to be there,
Speaker 1: and maybe we don't know when they're gonna see them
Speaker 1: again again. I'm not saying he's dead, but like in
Speaker 1: movies in the eighties, dads often just like disappear and
Speaker 1: we never hear from them again. So it's like, so
Speaker 1: I feel like their closeness makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: And I was just talking with my brother the other
Speaker 1: day and we were talking a little bit about how
Speaker 1: close we felt together because we went through so much
Speaker 1: together and then we're always together.
Speaker 3: It was always all of us, but we played together.
Speaker 3: I cooked for.
Speaker 1: Everyone, like there were all these things that we did
Speaker 1: together all of the time. So there's also this kind
Speaker 1: of almost like a little bit of like a stronger
Speaker 1: connection to each other when you know that something is
Speaker 1: changing in your family and you're all gonna and everything's
Speaker 1: gonna have to change in one way or another. And
Speaker 1: so I feel like the dynamic that we see between
Speaker 1: the kids makes a lot of sense, and I think
Speaker 1: is very natural and normal for what would happen if
Speaker 1: a parent.
Speaker 2: Just dipped become to box card children.
Speaker 1: I uce read those books, and you're right in that,
Speaker 1: Like the scene with the T shirt is if nothing else,
Speaker 1: like even if you have friends and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and Mike clearly has a lot of friends, that.
Speaker 3: Will that our true rider dies literally.
Speaker 1: Is no one like when you're sibling with someone like
Speaker 1: you're the only people that have are in the same
Speaker 1: situation as much as the same situation as you can
Speaker 1: be in as two individuals.
Speaker 3: And so even those moments.
Speaker 1: Are spelling the shirt are moments where they can commiserate
Speaker 1: in a way where like we know what's like support groups.
Speaker 1: I know that you know what I know and that
Speaker 1: you know how I feel, and that we can commiserate
Speaker 1: in a way. And I think it is beautiful into
Speaker 1: a lot about how naturally emotional and a positive way
Speaker 1: these kids are. That they can have that kind of
Speaker 1: conversation with each other that's so like touching and sweet.
Speaker 1: And Mike does a good job of reassuring him and
Speaker 1: he doesn't do like a toxic eighties guy thing of
Speaker 1: like blow him off, And that's something I think that
Speaker 1: goes through the whole movie, Like they have those moments
Speaker 1: of teasing each other, like threatening to tear apart Girty's
Speaker 1: doll and stuff like that. Like they have these moments
Speaker 1: that are like true sibling situations worth how truly loving
Speaker 1: but also how truly ruthless you can be with your
Speaker 1: siblings and just your siblings specifically, And also how much
Speaker 1: they care about each other and take care of each
Speaker 1: other and support each other.
Speaker 3: Is really sweet.
Speaker 1: Like they do take each other seriously once the aliens
Speaker 1: in the mix, Once the aliens in the mix, they
Speaker 1: treat each other seriously from jump they do, And I
Speaker 1: think It's really sweet that they again, once they see
Speaker 1: the alien, everybody is on is on the same page
Speaker 1: and understand, Like even Girty understands. I mean, she doesn't
Speaker 1: super understand because she tries to show e t to
Speaker 1: the mom almost immediately, but but like.
Speaker 3: In some aspects she did understand a little bit.
Speaker 2: So I mean, they do tell her that only grown
Speaker 2: ups can or that grown ups can't see them, only kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, I forgot that they say that to her. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: But I really appreciate the sibling dynamic in this, and
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that it felt that it feels so
Speaker 1: real and so natural and doesn't make kids out to
Speaker 1: be brats or whatever, like we just have three kids
Speaker 1: who are trying to ADJUSTI with this to the fact
Speaker 1: that they now have an alien living in their home
Speaker 1: and also their dad's gone. It is curious though, that
Speaker 1: like Elliott doesn't seem to have any friends, and that
Speaker 1: even in the end when he needs help, it's Mike's friends,
Speaker 1: and so it does make me curious also why that's happening.
Speaker 1: And then I do think something that's very older sibling
Speaker 1: esque is tolerating your younger sibling kind of hanging around
Speaker 1: the D and D table, wanted to be part of
Speaker 1: the group. Letting them kind of tag along and have
Speaker 1: nicknames with your friends, letting them ingratiate themselves a bit more.
Speaker 1: As if you're like, well, my younger brother, for some reason,
Speaker 1: he can't fucking make any friends, So having some like loving,
Speaker 1: so having some patience with him, even though that patience
Speaker 1: also includes being called what do they call him? What
Speaker 1: is him and his friend? They call each other back
Speaker 1: and forth. No, but when they're in front of the bus,
Speaker 1: the school bus, and they're like, oh, he calls them
Speaker 1: like something Latin.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm talking about? I know the scene.
Speaker 1: I the scene, but I don't I can't think of
Speaker 1: what they call each other.
Speaker 2: I just keep thinking penis breath and that's not what
Speaker 2: they read.
Speaker 1: Well, And that's also something, honestly, like I feel for
Speaker 1: the mom too, like she's trying to catch these moments
Speaker 1: when they're swearing and like using bad language towards each other.
Speaker 2: Well, they call each other, well, they just like douchebag
Speaker 2: and penis.
Speaker 1: And she's stop saying that a douchebag in this house.
Speaker 1: That's what she says, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was watching this with me and Caroline and Ava
Speaker 2: and Eva is eight and watching this is going like,
Speaker 2: oh my.
Speaker 3: God, penis breath. She knows it now, she.
Speaker 2: Knows what that somebody and it's gonna happen, and I'm like, god,
Speaker 2: damn it. Thanks eighties movie.
Speaker 1: Well, you have the benefit of her being the eldest siblings,
Speaker 1: so she'll learner from movies, whereas a kid like Gertie
Speaker 1: is probably already saying penis breath because they've been hearing
Speaker 1: that word. Like the scene where in Gertie says, what
Speaker 1: you gotta be kidding me or something, but she like
Speaker 1: doesn't buy what they're selling. Is such like the youngest
Speaker 1: sibling of like much older siblings look a little bit
Speaker 1: more wise to it.
Speaker 2: Ava probably has ADHD because both me and her mother
Speaker 2: have it, so there's like a zero percent chance she's
Speaker 2: not going to And she told me the other day
Speaker 2: that she can't hear us when she's focused on something else,
Speaker 2: and I just like put my head in my hands
Speaker 2: and went like fuck.
Speaker 3: Because I know what that means.
Speaker 2: Well, no suspicions connfirm.
Speaker 4: It's like I can't help, but I get here, like,
Speaker 4: uh shit, but her little sister already will say when
Speaker 4: we're trying to get her to do something, and she's
Speaker 4: two and a half, she's hyperverbal.
Speaker 2: This kid knows so many words, it's amazing. But she's
Speaker 2: just like one second and Ava loves to tell us
Speaker 2: one second or one minute, and like Emma now does it,
Speaker 2: and we're like, a.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: It annoys the shit out of you with one, but
Speaker 2: when the other one does it, and it's just like
Speaker 2: uses it perfectly in context because their sibling did it.
Speaker 2: You're like the parental brain lights on fire. Your soul
Speaker 2: turns into magma, and you try not to light everyone
Speaker 2: on fire with your destruction. And it's maddening. And just
Speaker 2: think thinking about like, oh my god, his kids are
Speaker 2: in here calling each other penis breath and you know,
Speaker 2: Elliott didn't invent that. That came from playing D and
Speaker 2: D with his friends. And even though Mike begrudgingly doesn't
Speaker 2: stick up for him but doesn't object to him playing,
Speaker 2: knowing full well the kid wants to play and doesn't
Speaker 2: maybe have friends, wants to connect, wants to play, needs
Speaker 2: a group, and has a character sheet in his fucking hands.
Speaker 2: Mike is like, well, oh no, the turance is to doom.
Speaker 2: So we have a little you tool ask him and
Speaker 2: other kids like, of course you can play.
Speaker 3: But it's very.
Speaker 1: Much like Mike is both saving face as a teenager
Speaker 1: with his friends of like not letting his ten year
Speaker 1: old brother play, but at the same time having a
Speaker 1: soft for Mike and probably wanting him to not wanting
Speaker 1: him to play, but also wanting him to play simultaneously.
Speaker 1: It's a tough quander to be in, but also something
Speaker 1: about picking up like Gertie picking up on oldest sibling things.
Speaker 3: She calls their.
Speaker 1: Mom Mary once and then and then Mike calls her
Speaker 1: Mary later, and so there are moments in which the
Speaker 1: kids call their mom Mary, which is very interesting to me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's such an interesting little like
Speaker 1: I think what I love about this movie is that
Speaker 1: and the older movies do this better I think than nowadays,
Speaker 1: where they say that what they write movies for the
Speaker 1: person in the other room, they write movies so you
Speaker 1: can be on your phone. Is dropping these little naturalistic
Speaker 1: like lore moments that they don't ever explain, like we
Speaker 1: never know why the kids will sometimes call their mom Mary.
Speaker 1: It's just something that's like lived in in their household,
Speaker 1: and I and I wish there was more of that
Speaker 1: nowadays without it getting beaten to death online about like
Speaker 1: why did the kids sometimes.
Speaker 3: Call her mom Mary. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe Mike does it because he thinks it's funny every
Speaker 1: once in a while, and Grudy picked up on it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I used to call my mom Elizabeth to
Speaker 1: get her attention when I was a kid. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: because she's frazzled, so everyone's wanted to call her by
Speaker 1: her government name to get her attention, because mom, Because
Speaker 1: I think most parents know that at a certain point,
Speaker 1: you stop hearing that word when you're in a frazzled
Speaker 1: enough state, like mom, mo, mom, Dad, Dad, Dad becomes
Speaker 1: like wah wah wah blah whah.
Speaker 2: Maybe and realizing they have to antagonize her to break
Speaker 2: her out of her dissociation, like pay attention to me.
Speaker 1: But I feel like, yeah, and it might because of that.
Speaker 1: But also, like I said, sometimes I would call my
Speaker 1: mom Elizabeth just to like get her attention if she
Speaker 1: was like focusing on something basically, if she wasn't giving
Speaker 1: me her full attention. After I said Mom fifteen times,
Speaker 1: I would switch to Elizabeth to just like kick it
Speaker 1: up a notch. I would say her nickname that she
Speaker 1: hated when she was younger if I really needed her attention.
Speaker 1: But I respect her enough that I will not say
Speaker 1: it on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Which seems like it would lend us well into our
Speaker 2: next topic. Do we feel like we've covered what we
Speaker 2: wanted to do with this? So one of the things
Speaker 2: that I wanted to talk about and is really based
Speaker 2: more on honestly my experience as a parent, is the
Speaker 2: way if kids reach out to an adult for guidance
Speaker 2: on something that from their perspective is real and they
Speaker 2: know for sure is real and there, and the adults
Speaker 2: blow them off, kids will not dismiss it the way
Speaker 2: the adult dismissed it. There is a zero percent chance
Speaker 2: of that the kids are going to investigate and look
Speaker 2: into it, and they're going to try to find the
Speaker 2: answers according to their point of view, because the reality
Speaker 2: of reality is that it's subjective. There is no collective reality.
Speaker 2: There is a collective sense of knowledge. There is a
Speaker 2: collective database, a collective unconscious if we're going to go
Speaker 2: into Yuni in terms here, but everybody seems to know
Speaker 2: what the characters of every story are regardless of culture.
Speaker 2: But if you leave a kid alone to investigate a
Speaker 2: story and you blow them off when they're like, hey,
Speaker 2: I think I'm pretty sure I saw something. Maybe it
Speaker 2: was a goblin outside that shit wasn't a coyote. Okay,
Speaker 2: that was not a coyote. Whatever it was was some
Speaker 2: weird shit. And if you diminish, dismiss, tell them to
Speaker 2: not worry about it. Yet Nope, they saw what they saw.
Speaker 2: They're not going to adjust to the reality you try
Speaker 2: to create for them. They're going to go and investigate
Speaker 2: from their own point of view. And I think that's
Speaker 2: what leads us to the entire plot of this movie
Speaker 2: when we get an alien who still haven't really talked about,
Speaker 2: but I mean also he you know, doesn't say a
Speaker 2: whole lot. But what we see with Elliott is that
Speaker 2: because everyone ignores his repeated insistence that he saw what
Speaker 2: he saw and it was fucking weird and it was
Speaker 2: so weird that he was perturbed, he goes outside and
Speaker 2: sits in almost hallucination dream like state to see this thing,
Speaker 2: and no one seems to notice. He just goes outside
Speaker 2: and then he encounters this thing and again tries to
Speaker 2: appeal to everybody that hey, there's some weird shit going on.
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, you're just making this up. Goblins aren't real.
Speaker 2: It's a coyote, but what could it be, like a
Speaker 2: deformed squirrel or whatever they said. I can't remember what exactly,
Speaker 2: but thinking about my kids in moments where we've been like, kiddo,
Speaker 2: that's not how it works. It's not how it works.
Speaker 2: Like the alarm on our house is Ava's current like
Speaker 2: things like that was like, it's the alarm on, like, kiddo,
Speaker 2: they call me, but are they going to call the police, Like,
Speaker 2: and the police is gonna comes, Like there's gonna be
Speaker 2: like a problem if the alarm goes like they call
Speaker 2: me first, if theom goes off. Also, I'll show you
Speaker 2: how to deactivate it. She's because she's anxious about it.
Speaker 2: She's not hearing this. None of my logic is going
Speaker 2: to work because it's emotional activation. And in this story,
Speaker 2: everyone dismisses Elliott's perspective. So Elliott then tries to figure
Speaker 2: it out the way he knows how, and he likes
Speaker 2: Reese's pieces, and because he's ten, he's going to be
Speaker 2: full on egocentric, which means He's only seeing the world
Speaker 2: to his own perspective, which is what all of us
Speaker 2: do all the time. But when you're a kid, you
Speaker 2: can't connect to the larger world. You only see it
Speaker 2: through your perspective. You can't like go like, well, if
Speaker 2: I was mom, how it I feel. Nope, you're just
Speaker 2: cognitively capable of that. But it's just literally turning on
Speaker 2: your frontal lobe is just now at ten developed enough
Speaker 2: that you can do this. So what we see is
Speaker 2: that Elliott goes outside knowing he saw some weird ass
Speaker 2: shit he's never seen before, but also it didn't eat him,
Speaker 2: so maybe I should give it candy and let it
Speaker 2: in the house.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: Elliott just does the first thing that he thinks of
Speaker 1: by using the Reese's pieces.
Speaker 3: I think that's so cute.
Speaker 1: I also was curious, there's a question I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you both, So I was like super paying attention
Speaker 1: to this movie today in a way that I feel
Speaker 1: like I don't usually pay attention to the movies that
Speaker 1: we do.
Speaker 3: No offense anyone, But.
Speaker 1: When when do you think that et imprints on Elliot?
Speaker 1: Because I think it happens as soon as they engage
Speaker 1: and then we see him staring off into space. I
Speaker 1: think that's when they connect. I think that's I think
Speaker 1: he is already connected to ET before we get to
Speaker 1: like where he where they actually meet and they start
Speaker 1: to talk, like, I think it happens before that. I
Speaker 1: think that they are connected as soon as they encounter
Speaker 1: each other and he yells in his face because they're
Speaker 1: both afraid of each other. That's like that it happens
Speaker 1: the first time you see it.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 1: I literally is gonna ask the same thing or oh
Speaker 1: my god, some idea, which is if we're gonna see
Speaker 1: this from like the science fiction lens. Yes, I was like,
Speaker 1: does he feel drawn, like what's what I'm looking for?
Speaker 1: Does he feel not drawn but like connected? I'm not connected,
Speaker 1: like dogged about finding ET because he is connected, like
Speaker 1: my heart is connected to your heart. Now, So the
Speaker 1: persistence in which he feels like he has to find
Speaker 1: I was wondering. I was like, is there a part
Speaker 1: of him that already feels ET out there and that's
Speaker 1: why he can't give up on it and gets so
Speaker 1: preoccupied by it? Now. My psychological interpretation is that he's
Speaker 1: a kid whose life feels very out of control and
Speaker 1: so he just in pre imprints on something that is
Speaker 1: like a project, you know what I mean the way
Speaker 1: that I think we, even as adults will do when
Speaker 1: something about our life feels out of control, as all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, will decide I don't know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get really into this hobby or I'm gonna really get
Speaker 1: into this sport because my life feels out of control,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I'm like super into
Speaker 1: this one thing. And but yeah, I also was wondering
Speaker 1: watching this now, I was like, how soon are they
Speaker 1: is Et?
Speaker 3: How soon is Elliott feeling?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I don't even know why I have to
Speaker 1: keep finding this thing or figuring out like maybe there's
Speaker 1: something in him that he can't quite understand.
Speaker 2: I think that that's happening passively and maybe organically at
Speaker 2: that point, but I don't think that each really fully
Speaker 2: makes that connection until they do the where are you
Speaker 2: from thing and he's got the little balls in the air.
Speaker 2: I think that's when the movie shows us they're fully connected,
Speaker 2: because that's the first time Elliott announces feeling his feelings.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to push on it in that when
Speaker 1: he brings Et into the house for the first time
Speaker 1: they both get tired at the same time and they
Speaker 1: both like fall asleep kind of pass on Sims's I
Speaker 1: feel it's the first big clue to us as the
Speaker 1: audience that they are having the same experience. They're like
Speaker 1: they're copying each other, like living in the same experience
Speaker 1: at the same time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because sure, because I feel like when Et is in
Speaker 1: the room, when they're in the room and they're both calm,
Speaker 1: which I think is the big part of it. When
Speaker 1: they're in the room and they're both calm, they he starts,
Speaker 1: you know, when Elliott starts touching his face and then
Speaker 1: Et touches his face the same way.
Speaker 3: I think that's a part of them connecting. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I think that's the passive side, like the yeah, they're.
Speaker 3: Communicating in that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think like whatever capability his species has
Speaker 2: connects at that moment, and that's the moment like that
Speaker 2: whatever psychic bond I create happening.
Speaker 1: No, I agree with you on that, Like I think
Speaker 1: because Et is clearly in his own crisis right that
Speaker 1: I can't I do get. I agree with you in
Speaker 1: that it's probably more of like a passive like an
Speaker 1: accidental maybe psychic link because maybe if this is going
Speaker 1: into what I wander about later, but if ET comes
Speaker 1: from a place where they communicate empathically or like emotionally,
Speaker 1: then maybe he did that without even realizing he did it,
Speaker 1: because that's just so the way that we would start
Speaker 1: talking to someone without even contemplating if they would under
Speaker 1: stand us. Like if I ended up on an alien planet,
Speaker 1: I would probably be like, hey, what's up, without thinking
Speaker 1: about girl, they don't know what the fuck you're saying,
Speaker 1: but I probably just do it well right.
Speaker 2: And also realizing that he's in whatever version of alien
Speaker 2: id mindset he's in, he's abandoned because his species, family, etc.
Speaker 2: Whatever the cases had to because they had to choose
Speaker 2: to leave in the mind as much have been difficult
Speaker 2: for them given their heart based connection, that he.
Speaker 3: Is panicked the whole time. He's scared.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know where the fuck he is or what's
Speaker 2: going on or what if anything is safe. So he's
Speaker 2: in full survival mode. But he's also hungry, and he's,
Speaker 2: as you learned, like slowly dying because he's not getting
Speaker 2: his needs met and food and everything else. He's hungry.
Speaker 2: This person is maybe safe, So I think he's connecting
Speaker 2: to the idea like, well, everything else is not safe,
Speaker 2: but this is safer than not safe. So I think passively.
Speaker 2: But then once Et has decided, oh, he's actually really
Speaker 2: trying to to help me and connect, So I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go ahead and connect that that happens where in the
Speaker 2: transplain where he's from, and.
Speaker 1: I agree too with where you're It becomes more of
Speaker 1: an active thing when he shows them his little like socials,
Speaker 1: when he shows them his little solar system thing, because
Speaker 1: Elliott looks out the window and he says like I'm
Speaker 1: feeling scared, like something like Elliott is computing it through
Speaker 1: his understanding as a kid. And then Et puts his
Speaker 1: hand on his shoulder to kind of be like, we're
Speaker 1: talking now, Like now we're talking because you're asking me questions,
Speaker 1: So now we're really talking.
Speaker 3: We're in a conversation. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we've covered quite a bit about when those two
Speaker 2: might have imprinted on each other. But we have kind
Speaker 2: of on our board here the opportun to explore how
Speaker 2: adults respund to kids or empathy and communication. Which direction
Speaker 2: we want to go first?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think kind of going off of
Speaker 1: what you were saying, about when kids are left to
Speaker 1: the oarn device. Well going, well, going back to what
Speaker 1: you were saying about how Elliott is trying to get
Speaker 1: his mom specifically, but is trying to get engagement from
Speaker 1: people about what he's discovering, you know, the goblin outside is.
Speaker 1: It did make me think about how I wish that
Speaker 1: adults would, and I think they do better now, would
Speaker 1: engage in more curiosity with kids like I think nowadays
Speaker 1: because there is so much more of a conversation around
Speaker 1: therapy and specifically like even getting kids in almost like
Speaker 1: preventative therapy. When something like this happens to a family
Speaker 1: is I feel like his persistence around this like invisible
Speaker 1: friend kind of thing in the yard, I could see
Speaker 1: a parent being like, oh God, my kid's going through
Speaker 1: something because of divorce. I need to give them in
Speaker 1: therapy because they keep talking about this like entity that
Speaker 1: lives outside and they're staying out all night and they're
Speaker 1: feeding in our food now like all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Well now, yeah, in the eighties, No.
Speaker 3: That's what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like, I think that now we have we're more encouraged
Speaker 1: as adults to demonstrate more curiosity towards children, even if
Speaker 1: they're bringing up something that to our minds is totally
Speaker 1: unrealistic or off the wall, at least being curious about why,
Speaker 1: like where they're going with that, Like what's going on
Speaker 1: with them? Like they're wanting your attention for something. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's not the exact waky, wacky thing they're talking about,
Speaker 1: but there's something going on, and that's why this kid
Speaker 1: is wanting you so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I think where the first like real
Speaker 2: besides the sibling dynamics and the divorce things that we've
Speaker 2: been talking about, is the first part of this movie
Speaker 2: is definitely shot more like a horror movie, more like
Speaker 2: his Jurassic Park, and even something as simple as people
Speaker 2: walking through the woods is meant to feel scary, and
Speaker 2: it's shot in ways that are scary, and we see
Speaker 2: once they reveal Keys, the lead scientist, he's the first
Speaker 2: one that's not a kid to actually start compassionately acknowledging
Speaker 2: the reality that Elliott is seeing, validating that, Yeah, I've
Speaker 2: been looking for aliens my whole life too, talking to
Speaker 2: him about it as if what he's seeing is real,
Speaker 2: because clearly at this point it's all real. Never mind
Speaker 2: that the government just busted in fucking base suits like
Speaker 2: NASA and that's terrifying, and hazmat suits like Level three here.
Speaker 2: But when he takes all that off, that's a moment
Speaker 2: of humanization where it becomes clear that even though the
Speaker 2: g men, as it were, are antagonistic and the kind
Speaker 2: of the central antagonists from the point of view as kids,
Speaker 2: there's no real villains in this movie. They're scientists and
Speaker 2: doctors behaving as scientists and doctors do there and the
Speaker 2: government of course wanting to know if, like, so, what's
Speaker 2: that machine he built doing?
Speaker 3: By the way, is that of a bomb?
Speaker 2: Is that dangerous to like literally everyone, are we all
Speaker 2: super fucked? Because can you please tell us? But he
Speaker 2: got down to Elliott's level, He spoke to him kindly,
Speaker 2: He was sympathic towards him, he was understanding, he was
Speaker 2: taking efforts that literally nobody else in that scene, and
Speaker 2: like mom was taking care of the other kids. But
Speaker 2: Elliott didn't bond to any other adults, even kind of
Speaker 2: his mom, except to this other guy. He's clearly like
Speaker 2: a foil to Elliott of showing like the difference between
Speaker 2: childhood wonder and adulthood reality of like, hey, these things
Speaker 2: that you can be interested in also could be dangerous,
Speaker 2: and Elliott is not perceiving ET is dangerous at all,
Speaker 2: or that Et might not survive until he gets sick
Speaker 2: and everybody busts in. But Keys is taking time to
Speaker 2: explain what's happening as much as possible with Elliott and
Speaker 2: trying to demonstrate compassion, and I feel like it's important,
Speaker 2: and that juxtaposition of how mom has been kind of
Speaker 2: dismissed until it becomes quite clear that what Elliott is
Speaker 2: experiencing is real, and then she works to take care
Speaker 2: of her children and be compassionate and empathic to them
Speaker 2: and hold Girdy and take her away from what she
Speaker 2: doesn't need to see and give her permission to be
Speaker 2: scared and not offer answers she doesn't have and bullshit,
Speaker 2: and also not interfere with people providing Elliot answers that
Speaker 2: are the best answers available. But I think when adults
Speaker 2: take time to give kids answers to questions that they
Speaker 2: have and not dumb it down, not mute it, not
Speaker 2: tell them oh, well, let the grown ups handle this,
Speaker 2: but provide age appropriate in maybe even a little beyond
Speaker 2: age appropriate answers, but tell kids the truth has been
Speaker 2: a long thing we've advocated for on the show. I
Speaker 2: know we all advocate it in practice, tell children the truth.
Speaker 2: None of the adults except Keys tell Elliott the fucking truth.
Speaker 2: In this entire film. Mom doesn't tell the truth necessarily
Speaker 2: about what's happened with Dad and what's happening with them,
Speaker 2: or even fully acknowledge what's going on once she's completely
Speaker 2: overwhelmed by all that's happening. But we do see Keys
Speaker 2: could be an older adult Elliott like this is this
Speaker 2: is what adulthood does to us. It shows you the
Speaker 2: truth of the world, the childhood wonder and connection of like,
Speaker 2: but all of this feels okay, So it's okay, and
Speaker 2: adult's gonna be like yeah, maybe, But I feel like
Speaker 2: they didn't. Movie didn't have to do that. This movie
Speaker 2: did not have to show an adult in that kind
Speaker 2: of position of power and authority focused on is this
Speaker 2: a threat or is this a scientist? Just like it's
Speaker 2: just a validation of my entire life. Here, fuck your feelings.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna explore this scientifically so we know that there's
Speaker 2: life on other planets and I can prove it. Now
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be famous because we caught.
Speaker 3: He doesn't do that. He takes care of Elliott's feelings. Well,
Speaker 3: I think Spielberg does what I feel like. What Spielberg does.
Speaker 1: I think in all of his movies that our kid
Speaker 1: focused is respecting children and respecting their worldview and respecting
Speaker 1: their opinions and their experiences. And I think what I
Speaker 1: like about that exchange is not so even much that
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying in that Keys is kind
Speaker 1: of a grown up Elliott in the sense of there
Speaker 1: is realities about the world that make us more jaded
Speaker 1: and maybe more cynical sometimes the necessary ways. And also
Speaker 1: I like that he respects Elliott and that he acknowledges
Speaker 1: that there are some things about children that are better
Speaker 1: than adults. When he says I'm glad he found you first,
Speaker 1: I think that's such a powerful line in the movie
Speaker 1: that I really love, and that always makes me like
Speaker 1: kind of tear up. A lot of moments in those
Speaker 1: scenes make me tear up in that part of the movie,
Speaker 1: and in that one because in that moment he's saying like, well, one,
Speaker 1: you took really good care of him, which I think
Speaker 1: is always so powerful for a kid to hear especially
Speaker 1: when the outcome at that point in the movie is
Speaker 1: so bleak that like, you didn't do anything wrong, you
Speaker 1: did a really good job taking care of him, and
Speaker 1: that also like maybe it was good that he found
Speaker 1: a kid with like an open heart, the way that
Speaker 1: kids have more curious open hearts than an adult, who,
Speaker 1: as we see in this movie, maybe would have like
Speaker 1: come at him with a flashlight and like shot him
Speaker 1: in the face, you know what I mean, Or like
Speaker 1: the way that like the adults in this movie are
Speaker 1: seen as more invasive, right, like they literally invade their house,
Speaker 1: they're coming after the kids on their cars, Like the
Speaker 1: way even the scene of them coming over the hell
Speaker 1: over the hill to like quarantine the area. It's just
Speaker 1: very much like ironically, like the adults are the invasive
Speaker 1: species to this world that's been kept pretty chill up
Speaker 1: to this point. And also side note, honestly, I don't
Speaker 1: think anything would have changed for the better or the
Speaker 1: worse if the adults hadn't gotten involved at all, because
Speaker 1: even though et was dying, the scientists didn't save him.
Speaker 1: He only came back to life because his machine did
Speaker 1: work and they did hear and they did come back.
Speaker 1: So if they would have left it all alone. That
Speaker 1: probably would have played out the exact same way in
Speaker 1: Elliott's house, like Et might have. Foe died. Maybe they
Speaker 1: covered up with a blanket. They're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: oh worse a wreck. But then he comes back alive.
Speaker 1: They land in their backyard or the pass in the metal.
Speaker 1: They take him back there and he goes up to
Speaker 1: him and nothing's damaged, nothing's bad. And I feel like
Speaker 1: a part of the reason why Et wakes up, which
Speaker 1: is also the reason why he got caught. So you know,
Speaker 1: in the very beginning of the movie, when he's running
Speaker 1: through the woods and all of a sudden, his heart
Speaker 1: light comes on because the person at the ship was
Speaker 1: trying to connect to him to let him know his
Speaker 1: time to leave. And that's why I think he gets
Speaker 1: caught by keys, or almost gets caught by keys, initially
Speaker 1: because he can't hide anymore once his heart light is on.
Speaker 3: And so I think the thing that brought him.
Speaker 1: Back alive is that they reached him and they got
Speaker 1: his message, and so his light heart started beating. They're
Speaker 1: Bluetooth connected, they're Bluetooth connected.
Speaker 3: They're paired, they're paired, So anyway, I don't know how
Speaker 3: you all feel about all that part of it.
Speaker 1: But I think this is what I wish for Keys,
Speaker 1: because even as a kid, I didn't like Keys. You
Speaker 1: know why, because he was nice to Eliot, but he
Speaker 1: was nice to Elliot to get.
Speaker 3: Information out of him.
Speaker 1: I did not feel like he was nice to Aliot
Speaker 1: just because he was like, oh, you're like me as
Speaker 1: a little kid. I thought it was being nice to
Speaker 1: him because he's trying to get shit out of the
Speaker 1: information out of him.
Speaker 3: He was good copping him. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so I have always thought that Keys is the
Speaker 1: bad guy of the film since the first time I
Speaker 1: saw this movie, and I still feel the same way.
Speaker 1: He's the bad guy in terms of he is proof
Speaker 1: that adults can't be Yes, he can be nice to
Speaker 1: him in that moment, but was the only nice to
Speaker 1: him to get information out of him. I've never trusted
Speaker 1: that guy and I'm never gonna trust him. Then, and
Speaker 1: missus Scorpio corner with Hannah.
Speaker 3: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: I do feel like I do like the points that
Speaker 1: you're both making about Keys, and yes, he is in
Speaker 1: those moments very kind and very compassionate, and that's nice.
Speaker 1: But like I said, I think he's just trying to
Speaker 1: get information out of Elliott because.
Speaker 3: He screwed the pooch.
Speaker 1: He knew he screwed the pooch, and he should have
Speaker 1: fucking said something sooner to Elliott. That's the part that
Speaker 1: I didn't like. What's Hannah is saying is don't get
Speaker 1: complacent in front of Uncle Sam, don't you do it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, this is great is Ari and Reagan's America at
Speaker 2: this point? I think? So we're at the end of
Speaker 2: Carter and the depending Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because I looked up where president was president when I
Speaker 1: was born and it was Carter, So yeah, depending on
Speaker 1: I don't really know us history.
Speaker 3: I just know that.
Speaker 2: Depending on where we're at, where e're at, the beginning
Speaker 2: of Reagan or end of Carter was seventy eight to
Speaker 2: eighty two. So yeah, the uh, I think. But looking
Speaker 2: at this like I had a different take on Keys,
Speaker 2: like that all of the adults scared all of us
Speaker 2: kids as kids. But watching it this time, I took
Speaker 2: a minute to watch, like I felt there was a
Speaker 2: curiosity that was getting reawakened in Keys, and he softened
Speaker 2: throughout the film, and by the end he facilitates and
Speaker 2: helps et get home. He didn't facilitate, but he doesn't interfere.
Speaker 2: He stops interfering once they get away.
Speaker 1: They all show up at the same time. They drive
Speaker 1: him like maniacs, and he's one of them.
Speaker 2: They do, but they also don't do anything crazy once
Speaker 2: it's clear the ship is there and he's stopping them,
Speaker 2: stopping the rest of the g men, as it were.
Speaker 2: But looking at the importance of how adults responding to
Speaker 2: kids kind of coming back and remembering that kids don't
Speaker 2: know everything that adults know, and they're not capable of it.
Speaker 2: But the more you start explaining to things, the easier
Speaker 2: it is for kids to digest and understand. And even
Speaker 2: though Keys has you know, it looks like he's in
Speaker 2: his fifties, maybe mid to late fifties.
Speaker 3: He's probably twenty nine.
Speaker 1: He's probably supposed to be thirty eighties exactly Exeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to be depressed, look at
Speaker 2: the cast of Cheers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're probably thirty.
Speaker 1: Two, but no, he's probably he's probably the ages on
Speaker 1: Cheers are crazy, but I bet you he's probably in
Speaker 1: his late thirties, early forties. And I do wonder I
Speaker 1: think what I'm getting out of this is how I
Speaker 1: feel like how you think of Keys as almost like
Speaker 1: a war shock test for where you're coming at personality
Speaker 1: wise and maybe your own point of view, because because
Speaker 1: I do vibe with what you're saying, and because also
Speaker 1: but also how I've sort of read Keys, that speech
Speaker 1: he gives or that little TALKI ass Elliott is almost
Speaker 1: like and maybe I'm just my Warshop test projecting is
Speaker 1: like almost like Spielberg kind of saying like this is
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale about growing up. Like when you're growing up,
Speaker 1: you start as an Elliott, and if you aren't careful,
Speaker 1: your interest will become more like predatory the way that
Speaker 1: or more like you've lost your way a little bit,
Speaker 1: like like he doesn't have that whimsy anymore, or he's
Speaker 1: getting it back and talking about this, but the curiosity
Speaker 1: becomes more.
Speaker 3: Dogged and or fear based and cynical, yees, cynical.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 1: And I know that a part of what Steven Spielberg
Speaker 1: usually does is have some there's some adult who is
Speaker 1: actually paying attention to the children. There is some adult
Speaker 1: who knows how to speak to them and knows how
Speaker 1: to connect with them, but also an adult who has
Speaker 1: awareness that they are no longer a child. And that's fine,
Speaker 1: but again, get fucked Keys. I'll stop talking about him now.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Scorpio. But looking at I looked at up
Speaker 2: Peter Code. Peter Coyote was forty during the filming of this.
Speaker 1: Is that Keys, I'm guessing yes, okay, Ages, I'm so
Speaker 1: good at ages.
Speaker 3: Peter Coyote is a dope name. I will back him
Speaker 3: up on that, Peter Coyote. That's cool with that face.
Speaker 1: Sure, I don't mind him. Actually, I think it's kind
Speaker 1: of handsome. Don't cancel me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's I think recognizing that there is a
Speaker 2: lot of softening of the adult's mom is clearly shown
Speaker 2: as kind of disconnected, kind of preoccupied. And yeah that
Speaker 2: Keys is shown as cynical and focused in like scientific
Speaker 2: and detached. I guess scientifically detached. Professionally detached is where
Speaker 2: I put him. He's on his mission, but he softens
Speaker 2: and mom softens and becomes mom. She's holding her kids,
Speaker 2: she's guiding them, and then you know, the Keys gives
Speaker 2: Elliott's like, do you need a minute alone with him?
Speaker 2: To talk to him? Like a funeral director would not
Speaker 2: like a scientist. Science has been like, yep, wrap it up,
Speaker 2: he's dead. But he didn't. He didn't.
Speaker 3: He did.
Speaker 1: He did from that chance, but you know why, because
Speaker 1: he wanted to see if something happened with E.
Speaker 3: T while he was talking to him.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't take that. I don't care.
Speaker 1: That's what I don't care.
Speaker 2: That was kindness, Hannah, and that was.
Speaker 3: Softening because here's one thing I think is true.
Speaker 2: They thought he was dead.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 1: I think what this movie is showing is that adults
Speaker 1: really don't know what's going on and through through the
Speaker 1: mom in a very literal sense. But I think like
Speaker 1: Et is like a metaphor of that in that I
Speaker 1: think they think he's dead because the adults don't really
Speaker 1: know what's going on. They're not connected on the same
Speaker 1: wavelength that a child would be to Et because Et
Speaker 1: is from an empathy based culture.
Speaker 3: And so we can talk more about that after this break.
Speaker 2: There's no accidents. In Spielberg movies, they go through painstaking
Speaker 2: amounts of detail to show us the cognitive connection between
Speaker 2: Et and Elliott, breaking, to show that they understand. The
Speaker 2: scientists understand how different ET's biology is and that he
Speaker 2: is dead dead dead capital D dead. According to their science,
Speaker 2: he is dead. So the adults are assuming their science
Speaker 2: now has shown them no.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's an example of like how adults are
Speaker 1: missing something important because they're not thinking that way. They're
Speaker 1: stuck in their rigidity of adulthood, which is definitely something
Speaker 1: that Spielberg is always pointing out. I feel like in
Speaker 1: his films.
Speaker 2: Yeah, usually he used Robin to do it, though, with
Speaker 2: you know, Getting or Sam Neil. I guess what Robin
Speaker 2: Williams like can hook?
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Brittany I did notice think about the hook
Speaker 1: thing when she's written Peter Pan and that was kind
Speaker 1: of narrating a scene. I was like, Oh, he's been
Speaker 1: wanted to do a Peter Pan story for a while.
Speaker 2: But showing keys kind of like letting Elliet have a
Speaker 2: moment with them, knowing how close they were and that
Speaker 2: that got severed, and that he's witnessing death maybe for
Speaker 2: the first time in his life. Are think what we're
Speaker 2: seeing is like an opportunity to be compassionate. And I
Speaker 2: don't think at that point he was thinking anything would happen.
Speaker 2: I think he's just trying to take care of that
Speaker 2: kid because he felt connected to the kid. So we're
Speaker 2: seeing the impact of ET's empathy based connection. We're seeing
Speaker 2: oh right, if humans remember to connect to each other,
Speaker 2: we can do kindness things. There's all of that in
Speaker 2: the filmmaking magic of that that being shown in metaphor
Speaker 2: to us there and then that's all I have to
Speaker 2: say about that.
Speaker 3: All right, let's take a break here and we'll be
Speaker 3: right back.
Speaker 1: So this is more of the when we like to
Speaker 1: go on our little fun hypothetical psychology introduced into wackiness
Speaker 1: sections that we do occasionally on the podcast. Because my
Speaker 1: brain was really thinking about how obviously a key component
Speaker 1: to this movie is the fact that Et communicates to
Speaker 1: Elliott via emotions and empathy, which I some I don't
Speaker 1: know if I want to say that like interchangeably, because
Speaker 1: when he says like he's feeling his feelings, but it
Speaker 1: more seems like you're just like aware of each other
Speaker 1: in a way that erodes individualism, you know, because there's
Speaker 1: the point in the movie when he starts to say,
Speaker 1: wee Elliott instead of I or him. We are fine,
Speaker 1: We're not We're sick, you know, like he is. It
Speaker 1: made me really think about how that would impact us
Speaker 1: psychologically if we did think collectively like that and how
Speaker 1: I don't know it like really made my brain think
Speaker 1: really hard.
Speaker 3: It made me really explore that.
Speaker 1: Idea and then just thinking about us talking obviously, this
Speaker 1: is a big part of the movie, right of this
Speaker 1: idea that they are feeling each other's feelings and connected
Speaker 1: in that way, like what it would do to your psyche?
Speaker 1: And I wonder if it works easier on a kid
Speaker 1: because kids are also so much more flexible in what
Speaker 1: they believe to be possible and more open hearted than
Speaker 1: adults are. That's what I love about working with kids.
Speaker 1: They're very honest, even when they're lying. It's they lie
Speaker 1: in a very honest way where they can't they don't
Speaker 1: lie very well, or they lie very obviously, And they're
Speaker 1: just more receptive to ideas, And it would I think
Speaker 1: it'd be really interesting if we did see a version
Speaker 1: of this where et tried to connect with an adult,
Speaker 1: Like how different would that be?
Speaker 3: Would that look?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: I don't think an adult would ever have been safe
Speaker 2: enough or open enough. It had been too scared and
Speaker 2: overwhelmed than not connecting to oh you're also scared. Maybe
Speaker 2: if I give you food. I think about how many adults,
Speaker 2: but adults connect to ET. I would you?
Speaker 1: I mean, of course I would like to think I would,
Speaker 1: But I'm also a child therapist who thinks these thoughts already.
Speaker 1: And also he is like, what goes up to my
Speaker 1: fucking thigh?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like it might be different if ET was the same
Speaker 1: size as me.
Speaker 2: Unless he goes directly up to your belly button and
Speaker 2: it happens to have a second mouth, like the alien
Speaker 2: queen you don't know, Yeah, see right in your belly button.
Speaker 1: But I think if like a little a little creature
Speaker 1: was like like screaming and looked really freaked out, I
Speaker 1: think I'd just be more like, please, don't be an animal
Speaker 1: that would bite me would be my first thought. But
Speaker 1: then if they imprinted on me, I don't know, I'd
Speaker 1: like to. I want to believe in myself that ET
Speaker 1: could imprint upon me if needed. I want to believe
Speaker 1: in that version of myself. And so now we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about treatment today. I am just going to
Speaker 1: be talking a little bit about co parenting in divorce
Speaker 1: situations or separation experiences. And part of the reason why
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about. This is because being in
Speaker 1: the field for ten years, I work with a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are changing their relationship, ending their relationship,
Speaker 1: just doing different things that affect their children, And I
Speaker 1: feel like one of the really big missed aspects of
Speaker 1: this is, no matter what happens, you're both going to
Speaker 1: be the parents to these kids until you're both dead, okay,
Speaker 1: which means you have to find a way to act
Speaker 1: like a fucking grown up and co parent with someone
Speaker 1: else because it's about the children and not about whatever
Speaker 1: bullshit you and your partner had going on before when
Speaker 1: you had kids. Now that you're not together, it's all
Speaker 1: about the children. How are you going to manage that?
Speaker 1: How are you going to help them adjust? How are
Speaker 1: you going to make sure that the kids have room
Speaker 1: and space to talk about what they need to talk
Speaker 1: about and not feel the way that Mike and Elliott do,
Speaker 1: which is where they have to protect their mom from
Speaker 1: information they know about their dad, because, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: the other parent will teach them everything they need to
Speaker 1: know about what kind of person they are. You trying
Speaker 1: to instill that in the children ahead of time is
Speaker 1: going to have an impact on your relationship with your
Speaker 1: children more than it's going to have an effect on
Speaker 1: their relationship with your ex partner. So something that I
Speaker 1: want to just make clear, and also something that I
Speaker 1: really experienced as a kid growing up just having parents again,
Speaker 1: my parents are also almost like they're so effed up
Speaker 1: that it's like hard to even it's hard to use
Speaker 1: them as a comparison sometimes honestly because of how kind
Speaker 1: of unwell people they are. And I had two parents
Speaker 1: who were both bad mouthing each other on a regular
Speaker 1: basis to us kids, putting us in a place where
Speaker 1: now we had to decide how we felt about that
Speaker 1: parent in front of the other parent. So just make
Speaker 1: sure that even if you're done having a relationship with
Speaker 1: this person that you made children with, you will still
Speaker 1: have to find a way to get along with them.
Speaker 1: It is still your job to help support the children
Speaker 1: as they grow up. And yes, past eighteen, all that
Speaker 1: shit about oh it's over when they're eighteen, you are
Speaker 1: so fucking wrong. You know when it's over when you're dead.
Speaker 1: That's the real answer. So please have some insight and
Speaker 1: some awareness that you are pulling the rug out from
Speaker 1: underneath your children's feet. And if you can't figure out
Speaker 1: a way to co parent, you are going to have
Speaker 1: a really big impact on the way that your children
Speaker 1: see relationship, the way that they communic about communicate about relationships,
Speaker 1: and their expectations when they're in relationships with a partner,
Speaker 1: and how they would treat their own children. So please
Speaker 1: don't be a fucking asshole, because kids really need time
Speaker 1: and space to have this big adjustment that we're talking
Speaker 1: about that Mike and Gerty and Elliott all have. That's
Speaker 1: all I have to say about treatment and to jump
Speaker 1: on that. What I wanted to tell people too, is
Speaker 1: that there is family therapy you can do that's like
Speaker 1: co parenting, Like I've worked with co parents where I'm
Speaker 1: just working with them, I'm not working with the kids,
Speaker 1: so it's like family therapy without the kids there. And
Speaker 1: you can also do like mediation that's more therapeutically and
Speaker 1: that's more therapeutic in nature to kind of help mediate
Speaker 1: what Hannah's talking about, which is if there is bad
Speaker 1: blood because of what happened between the two of you,
Speaker 1: or you can't even maybe have like a conversation without
Speaker 1: it falling apart emotionally between the two of you, that
Speaker 1: there are people who do our job that can do
Speaker 1: it in a more structured way that isn't even necessarily
Speaker 1: emotional in nature, like you don't have to get into
Speaker 1: the what force about your relationship to each other and
Speaker 1: like making yourself good with each other necessarily. They can
Speaker 1: be more how do we run the business of our
Speaker 1: family civilly as like and when I've worked with parents
Speaker 1: like that, it is more about like how do I
Speaker 1: can we get on the same page with how we're
Speaker 1: viewing our relationship to each other and what it means
Speaker 1: to be healing our relationship as a couple versus as
Speaker 1: co parents, and which is different than also friends, like
Speaker 1: do we want to be friends and co parents? Do
Speaker 1: we just want to be business partners? Which, depending on
Speaker 1: how the relationship ends, it can be different, Like they
Speaker 1: can have different opinions too, Like I've worked with divorce
Speaker 1: code parents where one of them wanted to be friends
Speaker 1: and the other one was like, I'm not interesting because
Speaker 1: of how we ended our relationship what happened. And my
Speaker 1: job in those situations has been to kind of support
Speaker 1: both the parents, but both support the parent who's asking
Speaker 1: for that, but also support the other print understanding like
Speaker 1: it's Okay, if they don't want to be your friend
Speaker 1: right now, you can still be friendly and how you
Speaker 1: parent your kids. But for my treatment, I was thinking
Speaker 1: about working with the mom, and really all I wanted
Speaker 1: to articulate with the mom is I think she would
Speaker 1: just do great with just probably good old fashioned talk therapy.
Speaker 1: Just having someone another adult that she can just talk
Speaker 1: about Mexico, with all those moments where she mutters about
Speaker 1: Mexico in the movie, would have been a great if
Speaker 1: she'd had an outlet like therapy. Maybe she could go
Speaker 1: to therapy and just be like.
Speaker 3: He's going to Betico, Da da da.
Speaker 1: So I think she needs an outlet one And then
Speaker 1: but two, I wanted to just put a reminder out
Speaker 1: there that there's no like coping skill I could teach
Speaker 1: her that will overcompensate for her lack of support system.
Speaker 1: So I think what I would also want to figure
Speaker 1: out with her early in our work together is what
Speaker 1: your support system look like? Could it be better? And
Speaker 1: what does that look like? Because also going back to
Speaker 1: what we were saying about how divorce was maybe more
Speaker 1: common but still pretty socially taboo at that time, or
Speaker 1: it was still more like that's your family's business kind
Speaker 1: of thing is is she letting people help her because
Speaker 1: she's trying to seem fine, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Which I think would be really real.
Speaker 1: Is their family that's far away that she needs to
Speaker 1: ask for help with?
Speaker 3: Does somebody to come out and help them?
Speaker 1: So I think I just want to put out there
Speaker 1: too that like, you can't out therapize a lack of
Speaker 1: a support system and a lack of resources. And so
Speaker 1: I think for her, part of what I want to
Speaker 1: work on her with is like, do you have friends,
Speaker 1: do you have family? Are there people that you could
Speaker 1: be sharing more with that you're not that you could
Speaker 1: be asking for more help from. Is it okay if
Speaker 1: you need to put your kids in latch key? Are
Speaker 1: you not using some resources like that because you feel
Speaker 1: a type of way about it. So that's something i'd
Speaker 1: want to hammer out with her first, as well as
Speaker 1: giving her a place to just kind of like talk
Speaker 1: and cry. I don't think she needs more than that
Speaker 1: in therapy. We'd have to hit those two things and
Speaker 1: then go from there. But that's what I would do
Speaker 1: with the mom.
Speaker 2: So as I was watching this, realizing that there's a
Speaker 2: lot of people who are probably going to need therapy.
Speaker 2: I also like honed in on Mom, and the trauma
Speaker 2: therapist's side of my brain and grief therapist side of
Speaker 2: my brain was looking at This is a person who
Speaker 2: is grieving and is stuck and clearly the impact of
Speaker 2: what is happening to her and how it happened. There
Speaker 2: is a running subtext in her story here. She has
Speaker 2: not had time or space. And while I agree that
Speaker 2: traditional talk therapy is a method that would certainly work
Speaker 2: for her, time and space to talk to another adult
Speaker 2: who's there to show to let her be cared for
Speaker 2: is huge, and it may not require the specialty things,
Speaker 2: but space, empathy, support, non judgment, basic person centered skills
Speaker 2: would go really far for someone like her. However, the
Speaker 2: trauma therapist side in me wonders with the impact of
Speaker 2: an alien dying on your floor and your child also
Speaker 2: almost dying because it is psychically connected to this alien,
Speaker 2: You being helpless while also having to care, especially for
Speaker 2: your youngest child. That would cause some split brain processing
Speaker 2: which she's already stuck in. So this is grounds for
Speaker 2: complex trauma to exist. And what I mean by split
Speaker 2: brain processing is that when we are are overwhelmed by
Speaker 2: the circumstances, our survival side of our brain, which is
Speaker 2: on the right your amygdalan olympic system turn on to
Speaker 2: respond to threat, and you're going to do whatever it
Speaker 2: is that occurs to you is the most likely thing
Speaker 2: to handle the situation. Clearly, she could not help Elliott.
Speaker 2: She had doctors there, they had people there to help her,
Speaker 2: like she was trying to comfort him and be with him,
Speaker 2: but she couldn't do anything. But she could help Gertie,
Speaker 2: so she did. She did what she could do. But
Speaker 2: the mom's side of her that's also attached to her
Speaker 2: other child that couldn't do anything to help him, is
Speaker 2: going to struggle with that later when she has time.
Speaker 2: Split brain processing means that survival side I mentioned is
Speaker 2: on and responding, but your logical side is recording at
Speaker 2: the same time. And processing is the word we use
Speaker 2: for when the event is over and those two databases
Speaker 2: try to sync back up, and sometimes that happens all
Speaker 2: by itself with some time. It's why acute stress event
Speaker 2: like this we give people thirty days before we can
Speaker 2: assign them a diagnosis of PTSD. Oftentimes these things resolve,
Speaker 2: especially if the pearson has afforded space to care for themselves,
Speaker 2: a place and a way to debrief and talk about this,
Speaker 2: that their emotions are cared for, that they're given some
Speaker 2: reassurance that they did the best that they could. Because
Speaker 2: our feelings brain is going to know one thing, and
Speaker 2: it knows the truth of what we did and didn't do,
Speaker 2: and our logical brain knows the why. And there's a
Speaker 2: lot of times in therapy like this where the why
Speaker 2: and what we did come really close to seeking up
Speaker 2: and you can feel someone almost buying into like, Hey,
Speaker 2: you did the best you could. You did what you
Speaker 2: could and that was all you could do. It's okay
Speaker 2: that that's all you could do. That that's the truth,
Speaker 2: and they're still going to be liked. Almost get there
Speaker 2: and then yeah, but I didn't go like rush to
Speaker 2: my child's side. I didn't do it. I didn't do that.
Speaker 2: I just didn't do all that I could have possibly
Speaker 2: done under all possible theoretical circumstances. Did there were things
Speaker 2: I didn't do and they know that. In processing, we
Speaker 2: find peace with that, going no, there really wasn't anything
Speaker 2: I could do. I did all that I could do,
Speaker 2: and I'm not a bad person because of that. That's
Speaker 2: just all there was. The emotional side doesn't give a shit,
Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, you weren't the best mom you
Speaker 2: could be, so you're terrible. So when I am watching her,
Speaker 2: not only is she struggling with whatever happened in her
Speaker 2: marriage where and you know, as we assume, it's quite
Speaker 2: possible that there was some extramarital activity on the side
Speaker 2: of the husband, and that he's moving on awful quick
Speaker 2: and going to a place that maybe she would have
Speaker 2: liked to go because they live in the valley, and
Speaker 2: maybe she wants to crane kick this motherfucker in the
Speaker 2: head like Daniel l Arrusso. But maybe she also really
Speaker 2: would have liked to go on vacation with him when
Speaker 2: they're married to Mexico and do the whole tropical fantasy
Speaker 2: thing because the valley is not that. But she didn't
Speaker 2: get to do that, and now he's doing it with
Speaker 2: another woman, and she's clearly struggling at that. But now
Speaker 2: you combine that trauma and that loss with the trauma
Speaker 2: and loss of possible loss of her child to space disease.
Speaker 2: You can't anticipate respond to protect him from There's nothing
Speaker 2: you can do that is ground for complex trauma because
Speaker 2: there are multiple layers of things going on in an
Speaker 2: already weakened state. So I think, from my point of view,
Speaker 2: exploring that and offering care for mom to kind of
Speaker 2: reconnect her to her resources, do trauma debriefings and then
Speaker 2: work on using EMDR or CPT or somatic experiencing type
Speaker 2: techniques all geared at helping her says whatever she could
Speaker 2: not physically handle feeling, and help her work through all
Speaker 2: of those likely stuck emotions from the horrified, frozen, stuck
Speaker 2: place she was where that was really all she could do.
Speaker 2: The best thing she could do was get out of
Speaker 2: the way, and that's the truth. But the part of
Speaker 2: her that's a mom wants to care for her baby.
Speaker 2: I care for my child needs care too, and how
Speaker 2: permission to have stepped back? So it would take knowing
Speaker 2: Mom's character a bit more to give you an accurate
Speaker 2: answer of what technique would choose, But I would be
Speaker 2: likely floating in and out of techniques helping Mom ground feel,
Speaker 2: reassure her, and help her connect to a way that
Speaker 2: she can feel everything she needs to feel while also
Speaker 2: having any negative thoughts about herself, judgments, shame, and guilt
Speaker 2: resolve so that she can give herself permission to process
Speaker 2: the rest of it without holding on to guilt of
Speaker 2: what she didn't do because she couldn't. So let's take
Speaker 2: a break here and we'll go to final thoughts.
Speaker 3: Or who wants to go first with final thoughts?
Speaker 1: I'll go first, and we're back with final thoughts now
Speaker 1: that I turned my microphone on.
Speaker 3: So I love ET. I've always loved ET.
Speaker 1: I don't know how old I was when I watched it,
Speaker 1: but a part of watching it today was really I
Speaker 1: invited some of my younger parts to watch it with me,
Speaker 1: just to see, and I felt some like goosebumps at
Speaker 1: different parts that I don't remember feeling that I only
Speaker 1: remember feeling the first time I watched it, So that
Speaker 1: was really fun and interesting. But mostly I just really
Speaker 1: enjoyed the relationship between the siblings, and I love the
Speaker 1: relationship with Elliott and Et. And also as a fun
Speaker 1: silly thing, when I was a baby, I used to
Speaker 1: stretch my neck up like Eat he did, and my
Speaker 1: mom called me Et because I was brown and fuzzy,
Speaker 1: but she said that I would do that. I would
Speaker 1: like stretch my neck up like I was ET, and
Speaker 1: she would call me that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so I really love this movie.
Speaker 1: It's I remember I was very young when I saw
Speaker 1: it the first time for sure, don't even remember how
Speaker 1: old I was, But I love this movie and I
Speaker 1: will definitely watch it again.
Speaker 2: I haven't watched ET in years, but as I watched
Speaker 2: it just this weekend and introduced my childhood for the
Speaker 2: second time, and she, like her mama, tends to fall
Speaker 2: asleep watching movies sometimes, so we're gonna have to watch
Speaker 2: the rest of it later. But realizing how scary it
Speaker 2: is in the beginning and how how many horror techniques
Speaker 2: of Eelberg used to kind of capture the fear of
Speaker 2: ET really stuck out to me. And then as we evolve,
Speaker 2: watching the growth in all of that, and every thing
Speaker 2: isn't what it seems, and if you can learn to
Speaker 2: approach things with a childlike wonder, you might see something
Speaker 2: different than you thought you were going to. It seems
Speaker 2: to be like really the theme of this movie, and
Speaker 2: that reconnecting to things with heart can really open you
Speaker 2: up to experience the world in a safer, more universal way.
Speaker 2: And realizing that living things all feel fear, feel love,
Speaker 2: feel connection, and know when they're safe and when they're not.
Speaker 2: And if you can create safety, you can find love
Speaker 2: and connection in a way that you'd never find before.
Speaker 2: If you ever owned a pet, you'll understand that real quick.
Speaker 2: I don't speak the same language, but you've got to
Speaker 2: convince each other that this is a bond and this
Speaker 2: is our best chance for survival. I think this movie
Speaker 2: did that in beautiful ways, and it's why it's even
Speaker 2: though it's a movie with puppets and weird goofy hands
Speaker 2: and some really scary sequences, people have taken to it
Speaker 2: for a long time, and I think it's going to
Speaker 2: continue to enter because it's a special film and the
Speaker 2: Star Wars nerd in me very much enjoys all the references,
Speaker 2: especially et looking at the kid that's Yoda, Justice Yoda
Speaker 2: and goes like home. And then for later because Spielberg
Speaker 2: and Lucas are friends and frequently collaborate, even officially or unofficially,
Speaker 2: that later on, apparently Spielberg directed some of the Yoda
Speaker 2: versus Palpatine fight in episode three, and we see et
Speaker 2: species show up in Star Wars in a couple of points.
Speaker 2: So really, what this movie is establishing if we're going
Speaker 2: to play the meta narrative back is that a long
Speaker 2: time ago in a galaxy far far away is still
Speaker 2: connected to our world because if Et exists in our world,
Speaker 2: therefore so too does Star Wars Transit of property. Praise be,
Speaker 2: but I still enjoyed this movie. It was a It
Speaker 2: was a fun watch and watching it from the adult
Speaker 2: point of view and catching all those things that you
Speaker 2: don't catch during the scary parts of the film as
Speaker 2: a kid because they're scary, but watches an adult realize
Speaker 2: he goes. It's kind of like what a hospital is,
Speaker 2: and what adults do is they operate out of fear
Speaker 2: and think that their knowledge is going to be the
Speaker 2: key to everything, and it's not. It's hard, just like
Speaker 2: being a therapist, technique or relationship which one works relationship.
Speaker 1: I love this movie. I've loved it since I was
Speaker 1: a kid. I get emotional every time I watch it.
Speaker 1: I get emotional in the scene in the Quarantine when
Speaker 1: Elliott's saying like he came to me, when there's all
Speaker 1: the confusion going on and ET's dying and Elliot's kind
Speaker 1: of starting to die but come back to life. I
Speaker 1: also cry a lot in the very end scene when
Speaker 1: each says to him like I'll be right here, and
Speaker 1: like touches his third eye. And I think it's such
Speaker 1: wonderfully sensitive movie. I think it's a really compassionate movie.
Speaker 1: I think, like I said, a lot of movies by
Speaker 1: Spielberg really respect kids. And I obviously respect kids as
Speaker 1: I work with them. And I think it, like I said,
Speaker 1: it respects how much that kids can't understand things well
Speaker 1: because they're coming at it from a more emotional, open
Speaker 1: hearted place. And I think it's a really beautiful movie
Speaker 1: about connection and empathy. And I like that it ends
Speaker 1: with the Keys, the guy keys, standing back and kind
Speaker 1: of letting them have their goodbye and then letting it
Speaker 1: t go off. That is more important about like being human,
Speaker 1: like showing humanity and empathy versus conquering and power and domination,
Speaker 1: all that stuff that kids don't really think about.
Speaker 3: Kids aren't really awkward like that unless.
Speaker 1: They are being raised by adults or around it all
Speaker 1: to operate like that.
Speaker 3: And so I love this movie.
Speaker 1: I think every time I watch it, I notice more
Speaker 1: parts that are clues to us that Et and Elliot
Speaker 1: are connected, like almost right away, like the getting tired.
Speaker 1: At the same time, there's all these little moments where
Speaker 1: Elliott seems to know psychically obviously that Et is like
Speaker 1: hungry or you know what I mean. Like there's a
Speaker 1: lot of It's a really well written script that really
Speaker 1: answers a lot of questions before you even realize that
Speaker 1: they're questions.
Speaker 3: And So I love this movie. I should.
Speaker 1: I should have my little nieces and nephew's watch it soon.
Speaker 1: I think they love it.
Speaker 3: My one niece is really into Grumlins right now, so
Speaker 3: I think ET would be right in her wheelhouse and
Speaker 3: obviously a lot less inappropriate than Grumblins and Grumlins.
Speaker 2: Too, which I need to do.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've watched Grumlins a few times now recently because of her,
Speaker 1: and they're ain't much their homie unless you want to
Speaker 1: talk about a guy who can't get his dreams off
Speaker 1: of the ground, which is the dad of the main
Speaker 1: character and Grandmains who keeps inventing different things that go
Speaker 1: to shit in his house. It's also a movie about
Speaker 1: a really permissive, loving wife who just lets that stuffkeep
Speaker 1: opening in our house. But I love this movie. I
Speaker 1: think this movie so has a lot to tell the kids.
Speaker 1: I saw it the music Box live on a big screen,
Speaker 1: which was really cool to see with kids there who
Speaker 1: probably sing it for the first time. And I really
Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite movies I think of
Speaker 1: all time, especially kid movies. So on that note, if
Speaker 1: you want to tell us what you think about the movie,
Speaker 1: you can always email us at popcorn psychologygmail dot com.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook and Instagram at popcorn Psychology.
Speaker 1: We're not really on TikTok anymore because of you know,
Speaker 1: fascist buyouts. We're not on Twitter anymore because of fascist biouts,
Speaker 1: so it's really shrinking. We're barely on the other ones
Speaker 1: because of fascist buyouts. We're trying to figure out a
Speaker 1: way out of meta, but I don't know if that's
Speaker 1: possible right now.
Speaker 3: Ben's working on that.
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