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Chum, chumbucasino dot com. 52 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:02.439 Nomber sessil. 53 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:15.599 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 54 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.719 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 55 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:26.080 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 56 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.800 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 57 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:34.080 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 58 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:37.879 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 59 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:53.400 Good Evening. Shortly after being elected President of the United States, 60 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.120 James Garfield was shot by Charles Guiteau. But contrary to 61 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.919 what is written in most history books, Garfield didn't linger 62 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:07.280 and die. He survived. Alexander Graham Bell raced against time 63 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:10.240 to invent the world's first metal detector to locate the 64 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.280 bullet in Garfield's body so that doctors could safely operate. 65 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:18.879 Despite Bell's effort to save Garfield, however, and has never 66 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:22.680 before fully revealed, the interventions of Garfield's friend and doctor, 67 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:26.439 doctor D. W. Bliss, brought about the demise of the 68 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:32.319 nation's twentieth president. But why would a medical doctor engage 69 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.039 in such monstrous behavior? Did politics, spetty, jealousy, or failed 70 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:40.280 aspirations spark the fire inside Bliss that led him down 71 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:45.039 the path of homicide? Rosen proves how depraved indifference to 72 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.199 human life second degree murder rather than ineptitude led to 73 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:52.120 Garfield's drawn out and painful death. Now more than one 74 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:56.599 hundred years later, historian and homicide investigator Fred Rosen reveals, 75 00:03:56.639 --> 00:04:01.439 through newly accessed documents and Bell's own core respondence, the 76 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.639 long list of Bliss's criminal acts and malevolent motives that 77 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:11.120 led to his murder of the president. The book that 78 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:16.120 we're featuring this evening is Murdering the President Alexander Graham 79 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.879 Bell and the Race to Save James Garfield, with my 80 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:23.800 special guest, journalist and author Fred Rosen, and great great 81 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:29.519 grandson and novelist Hank Garfield. Welcome, gentlemen to the program. 82 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:31.000 Thank you very much for this interview. 83 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:36.079 Thank you, thank you for having us. 84 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:37.000 This is. 85 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:47.319 One of the greatest moments of my life. And I'm hey, look, 86 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:52.279 how often does a dude get on a radio show 87 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:57.439 with the great great grandson of the US President, who 88 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:03.000 himself is a great dude, with a great Canadian dude 89 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:08.600 and we get to talk about what we're going to 90 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:14.759 be talking about. This is a unique experience and I 91 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:16.879 don't take it for granted. Dan. 92 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.560 Thank you very much, Fred. This is really going to 93 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:25.959 be a very interesting program. I'm certain now Hank Garfield, 94 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.240 like I mentioned, the great great grandson of the twentieth 95 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:32.680 President of the United States was assassined. Well, again, we 96 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:35.439 have to make sure we don't say assassinated. 97 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:36.240 But was killed. 98 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:41.040 So let's go back to the minute or the moment 99 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.199 that you happen to meet Fred Rosen, and under under 100 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.040 what circumstances in two thousand and four. So tell us 101 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:54.279 about that call to Fred Rosen, Hank gars As I 102 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:55.560 wrote it a forward. 103 00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:00.879 I'm a novelist and I had reached just recently gotten 104 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:05.720 my historical novel, The Lost Woods John Cabot, had just 105 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.920 recently been published by Simon and Schuster. And I'm sitting 106 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:13.800 in my home in Belfast, me in my bathrobe, noodling 107 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:15.600 on the computer as I usually do in the morning. 108 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:19.920 And the phone rang and it was Fred, and we 109 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.800 get to talking him and he introduced himself as a 110 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:25.639 true crime writer who was investigating the murder of my 111 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:29.839 great great grandfather, And so we get to talking about 112 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.040 writing and this and that and the other thing, and 113 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:34.800 finally Fred says, you know, you sound like a pretty 114 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:36.360 normal guy. I thought I was going to get one 115 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:41.480 of the Kennedy's on the phone. So I'm sitting there, 116 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.879 you know, in my bathrobe, sipping my coffee and my 117 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.879 house in Maine and thinking how much how much more 118 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.720 normal can can you be? So over the course of 119 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:53.360 the next several years, Fred and I talked on the 120 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.120 phone and corresponded a lot, and there were some you know, 121 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.680 frustrations and getting his book published. But here it is, 122 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:01.319 and I was happy to write the forward. 123 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.839 Yes, Fred, we're talking about a real long process. What 124 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:11.040 was the impetus for this book? What was that where 125 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:13.639 you had that idea. I'm glad to write this book 126 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:15.519 because it is a little out of the norm for you. 127 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.439 So give us that moment that it became evident that 128 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:21.639 you were going to write this, And why. 129 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.600 If I never said it before? Dan, you asked the 130 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:37.720 best questions. And what happened was I was in I 131 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:43.519 was in Michigan, and I was researching another book, and 132 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:47.399 I came across a paper written by Alexander Graham Bell 133 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:51.759 for a scientific journal. There was a paper he wrote 134 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.800 in about eighteen eighty two, and I'm reading this paper 135 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.000 and he talks about inventing the world's first metal detech 136 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:04.319 to locate the bullet to president's body so they could 137 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:09.319 operate without damaging him. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, 138 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:14.240 excuse me, they never taught me this in school, you know. 139 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.079 And then the other thing Dan was this and you'll 140 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:25.319 get it, and you know, which is doctor Bell was 141 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:30.920 writing it like he wanted somebody to investigate what happened, 142 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:39.120 and you know, he was like leaving something behind, and 143 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:45.240 so that really got me interested. And I didn't know 144 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.840 anything about any of this, you know, And I mean, 145 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:54.080 to me, James Garfield was a cipher and so I 146 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:59.919 started looking into it, and it took another fourteen years 147 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.080 to you know, of you know, this snat, to finally 148 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:09.039 get a publisher to publish the book, and in the process, 149 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:15.879 I discovered that he that James garf you know, unlike 150 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:22.000 what has been reported by the popular press, not only 151 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:28.200 was James Garfield not assassinated, he was deliberately murdered by 152 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:32.480 his doctor, Willard Bliss. And I found all the evidence, 153 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:35.759 and Bell left a lot of it behind, you know, 154 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.519 And I felt, as I went along in this whole process, 155 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:44.200 that he was leaving it behind for somebody to find it. 156 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.320 And I just happened to be the dude, you know 157 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.879 what I mean, And that was it, you know, and 158 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.639 I put it together, and you know, I was finally 159 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.440 lucky enough to get a publisher that was willing to 160 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:03.159 publish this because in other books that have been published 161 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:09.679 about James Garfield, they claimed that it was a lack 162 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:14.960 of sepsist that led to his death. That's not true. 163 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.799 It's just not true. And you know, because of the 164 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:22.039 fact that I was not only an historian, but a 165 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.039 homicide investigated just like you are, I was able to 166 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.360 get into it. And in the process, as I became 167 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:34.679 friendly with Hank and we became friends, it became personal. 168 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.279 You know, I mean, this is my friend's great great granddaddy. 169 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.200 You know what I mean. I mean, how am I 170 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:46.639 supposed you know, I gotta do something about this? So 171 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:47.080 I did. 172 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:53.720 Now, Hank, when we mentioned it was very funny, and 173 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:55.720 you talk about it in the book as well. You 174 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.879 talk about Fred initially calling you and saying, oh, Jesuz, 175 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:01.000 it's not really normal. I thought I might get to Kennedys. 176 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:04.600 So you guys weren't the Kennedy's, but you did have 177 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:08.919 a big family, and obviously, as we find out in 178 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:14.279 this book, there was quite an influence personally, politically, professionally. 179 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:17.399 So tell us what well that influence was. What did 180 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:22.039 your family tree look like in terms especially politically, But 181 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.120 tell us a little bit about the family after James Garfield. 182 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.399 Sure, well, when I was growing up, you know, it 183 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:31.919 was I mean, I'm not sure when I when I 184 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:34.399 first knew that, you know, I had a president in 185 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:36.759 my ancestry, but pretty early in my life. 186 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.759 But it was never really talked about. 187 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:42.279 You know, it certainly wasn't a topic of dinner table conversation. 188 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.559 You know, yeah, it's a great great grandson of a president, 189 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:48.039 but uh, and and he did that. The president did 190 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:50.120 have four sons, and they all had sons and so 191 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:51.320 and and. 192 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.080 And daughters as well. But there are a lot of Garfields. 193 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.799 Around the country, uh that that I haven't even met, 194 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:00.759 and and so so. So it is a large family. 195 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:07.039 But you know, it wasn't really a topic of discussion. 196 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:10.919 And what I what I've learned about the specifics of 197 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:16.679 his shooting and death really came after after high school, 198 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.960 you know, later later in life, when I started reading 199 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:23.360 about it and I started delving into it a little 200 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:29.240 bit more. But it wasn't anything that you know, I mean, yeah, 201 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:30.919 I grew up with it, and I remember my father 202 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:32.679 got mad at me one time for trying to get 203 00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:35.200 into a high school basketball game but I didn't have 204 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.960 the money for admission, and say, I said something like, 205 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:40.320 you're turning away the great great grandson of a president, 206 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:43.720 and rightfully, my father, you know, upbraided me for it, 207 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:47.279 because you know, it's just being an arrogant teenager. But 208 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.399 uh so, so as far as my day to day 209 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.960 life went, being the descendant of a president was no 210 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:53.480 big deal. 211 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.840 Yeah. It's pretty interesting though, isn't it. 212 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.240 Well, yeah, I mean it was. It's it's a has 213 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:02.519 been an interesting footnote. 214 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:02.480 In my life. 215 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:05.679 And you know, people ask me, well, are you related 216 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:07.759 to the president? And you know, I've had the experience 217 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:09.879 on a few occasions where where somebody will say, well, 218 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.879 are you related to the president and I'll say, well, yes, 219 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.600 I'm his great great grandson and they'll respond no way, 220 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:21.519 to which I just laughed and said, well you asked me, 221 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:26.320 I mean, you know, but so. But but you know, 222 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:30.279 as far as my day to day life, until I 223 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.200 got interested in the topic of his death and what 224 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.000 could have been, you know, what could have been is 225 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:41.399 an interesting topic because you know, when I read Fred's book, 226 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:44.240 and I started reading and and and some other things, 227 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:46.720 and I started reading about the mistreatment that he suffered 228 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.240 at the hands of his doctor. I got mad. I mean, 229 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:52.080 I know it happened one hundred and forty years ago, 230 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.840 but you know, it made me angry. And you know, 231 00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:59.480 I was surprised that there is that immediacy to my reaction, 232 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:03.240 because he could have been He was a very learned, 233 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:07.000 incapable man, and he could have been a great president. 234 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.639 And that was just cut short man. 235 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:16.759 May I add dan that James Garfield was in the 236 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.320 same I don't know if category is the right word, 237 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.360 but he was in the same category as Thomas Jefferson 238 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:30.320 in terms of being one of our most brilliant presidents. 239 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:35.159 This guy and not only that, Oh my god, he 240 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:37.320 You know what I got into when I wrote the 241 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.879 book was, you know, I knew that I had to 242 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:45.080 write about him, not just when he got shot, but before, 243 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:49.679 because nobody knew who the dude was, so I was 244 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.159 able to find out and this was all, you know, 245 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:58.200 pretty common knowledge. This guy was one of the bravest 246 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:05.120 Americans that ever existed, and during the Civil War he 247 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:09.360 rode under enemy fire. It's a really cool. It's my 248 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.639 favorite scene in the book. He rode under enemy fire 249 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:18.960 to save the army. We had two armies, the Army 250 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.320 of the Potomac and the Army of the Ohio. He 251 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:23.679 rode under enemy fire, to say, the Army of the 252 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:29.879 Ohio at the Battle of Chickamaugua in Georgia, and they 253 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:33.240 were the Confederates were shooting at this dude. And when 254 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:35.679 he got to where he had to go, his horse 255 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.799 collapsed from bullet wounds. I mean, you can't make this 256 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:47.679 stuff up, you know. And I, you know, Hank and 257 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:51.399 I have discussed about what would have happened in history 258 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:55.440 had James and I prefer I like to call him James, 259 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.240 So Hank and I we called him Jack for a 260 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:04.639 long time, you know, like the teen the show. Yeah, 261 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.159 but we don't want to get we don't want to 262 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:11.840 give a a a plug. Donald Bellisario produced the show. 263 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.519 But that's another story. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. 264 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:25.440 This guy was willing to live, to give up his 265 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:33.159 life to save the Union. He was willing to do 266 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:39.240 this to make sure that African Americans were free. And 267 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.639 you know what, as I'm writing this, I'm going, where 268 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:47.519 are these people. This guy was cool, you know, I mean, 269 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:50.200 you know, you know, if this was a different age, 270 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.360 Steve McQueen would be playing them, you know what I mean. Uh, 271 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:55.399 he was just. 272 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:57.720 At the piercing blue eyes. 273 00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:58.399 He could play. 274 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:05.599 Him exactly, thank you, you know. And you know, but 275 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:09.559 as I got into this, the other thing I realized 276 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:15.359 was that Dan, which was that I felt that not 277 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.440 only was Hank relying on me to tell the truth 278 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.000 about what happened, So it was James Garfield because and 279 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.240 I've talked to you about this on your show. I 280 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:30.839 speak for the dead and that's my job. And here 281 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:36.559 was a wonderful, wonderful president. This is a guy who 282 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:41.359 saved lives. You know. Here we are in the middle 283 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:46.920 of a campaign right now in America the president, and 284 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:51.759 nobody's talking about she who saved lives. Well, James Garfield did. 285 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:53.920 And I might add he was a Republican. 286 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.920 Well, we're not going to day when Republicans were reasonable. 287 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.079 Well exactly, you know, and and and exactly Hank, and 288 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:08.720 you know, so it's it's you know, but the thing 289 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.079 that really got me, Dan is just that all of 290 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:16.720 this stuff has gotten lost and that really bugs me. 291 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.279 You know what I mean it's like it's. 292 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.000 Obviously we're dealing with a different we're we're dealing with 293 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:25.519 different people, So maybe it was a more reasonable time. 294 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:30.039 Obviously we're this country is our country. The whole world's 295 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.319 a little bit out of control, if you think in 296 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.319 terms of and in terms of the kind of things, 297 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.880 the kind of bravery that James Garfield, the kind of 298 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.240 the the effort he put into being a you know, 299 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:46.480 a war strategist, a president bucking his own system, as 300 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.960 you're right in there, bucking his own system. He he 301 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:53.519 really didn't make it himself popular within his own party 302 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.480 because he had these ethics. He had this thing that 303 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.400 he didn't want the bribery involved with the postal service, 304 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:02.640 so he stood up to people in his own party. 305 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:07.039 So again, very unusual, I mean unusual period. So this 306 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.480 was a remarkable man. Now what I found was amazing 307 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:16.119 is then early on there is the chance circumstance that 308 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:21.359 doctor Bliss who eventually becomes a doctor, but at that 309 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:25.039 time he's just d Willard Bliss, and twenty year old 310 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.039 Dames Garfield is just a guy that well he was 311 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:30.400 born in a log cabin, so very much like this 312 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.200 Abe Lincoln kind of thing. He came from humble roots, 313 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.480 and at twenty years old he wasn't so successful. So 314 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:40.880 Fred tell us what he was doing at twenty years old? 315 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.319 And how did he meet doctor or pardon me, d 316 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:45.880 Willard Bliss. 317 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:53.359 No, he said it correctly. Will We should explain. That 318 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:55.000 was one of the things. By the way, when we 319 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:59.960 wrote the book is for some reason he was named 320 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:06.079 doctor do O k T E R. And then he 321 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.200 later changed it, so his doctor doctor Willard Bliss, you 322 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:13.759 know what I mean. And you know, so we had 323 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.680 to change it. And what happened was James Garfield was 324 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.599 about oh twenty twenty one, and he was he was 325 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:30.279 he was walk walking walking to the Western Eclectic Institute 326 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.519 in Ohio, and he had some money in his pocket, 327 00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:37.359 you know, in a wallet. He put the you know, 328 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:39.519 and he took off. It was a hot day, so 329 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:42.599 he took off the jacket that he was wearing and 330 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.640 the the the wallet fell out of the pocket. When 331 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:51.759 he realized that, he retraced the steps and he finds 332 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:58.200 some dude holding the wallet, and it was Willard Bliss, 333 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:01.880 and they introduced each other and they became at that 334 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:06.839 moment friends, and Bliss gave him back the wallet, and 335 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.160 then Garfield went to school and Bliss went to Grand Rapids, Michigan, 336 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:15.319 which he was on his way to relocate. And at 337 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:20.279 that point they you know, they had like a friendship, 338 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.880 but they didn't. It wasn't like they kept in contact 339 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:33.920 until much much later on. However, Willet Bliss was associatepath 340 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:42.079 and so what he did was he leveraged his association 341 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:46.599 with James Garfield eventually to help him in his career. 342 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:53.599 And this guy turned out to be the name of 343 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:58.000 this show is true Murder with Dan Zupanski. This guy 344 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.000 turned out to be one of the worst his I've 345 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:07.920 ever covered because he used his association with James Garfield 346 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:17.920 and subsequently his association with Abraham Lincoln to make money 347 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.799 even though he was the worst piece of you know 348 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:25.680 what you could possibly imagine? Did I say that? Well? 349 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:35.880 Sure, now let's take us back to because this story 350 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.319 is just amazing. The the the cast of real characters 351 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:44.759 in this is got Abraham Lincoln and John Wilkes, Booth 352 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:47.640 and Custer and wyatt ierp and like you say, Bat 353 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:53.160 Masterson and everybody, Oh God ever think of God and 354 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:54.119 God bless you. 355 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:57.400 Danfer mentioning all of them, Thank you, sir, keep. 356 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:01.920 Going and and and just if there is a slice 357 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.599 of American history that people would want to read about 358 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:08.759 that would find fascinating that they think they know something about. 359 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:13.160 I mean, everybody's in this in this book. They're in there, 360 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:15.839 every important figure that you ever could think of. And 361 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.680 especially again just rewriting history here. So why is it important? Again, 362 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:27.720 it's fascinating. We have Abraham Lincoln's assassination and his presidency, 363 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:29.079 and some of the work that he did is in 364 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:35.359 this book. But introduce how this doctor Bliss becomes involved 365 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:40.279 with Abraham Lincoln and subsequently the story of assassination. 366 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:44.079 Okay, all I want to say is if I started 367 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.279 sounding like Sammy Davis here and here, just not me, 368 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:50.960 because Sammy used to you know, he used to like 369 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:56.440 kiss write, But that's not me. The thing is what 370 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:02.720 happened was doctor Bliss was from was from Michigan, at 371 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:06.599 least that's where he wound up going to and a 372 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:11.039 senator from Michigan got him a gig as the dude 373 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:17.039 who would form and become the head of Armory Square 374 00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:22.559 Hospital on the National Mall, a vet's hospital. Do they 375 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.680 call it Dan? Do they call that? Do they call 376 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.559 it in Canada vet's hospital. 377 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.519 No, we don't have a specific veteran's hospital. 378 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:34.119 Nomb okay. So this was like a vet's hospital on 379 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.519 the mall. And so in other words, it's down the 380 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:43.640 block from the White House, and and and so like 381 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:50.000 Bliss is the head dude, and Lincoln would show up, 382 00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:54.160 you know, in those days, the President would just show up, 383 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:57.279 I guess, you know, and he sort of tour the 384 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:01.079 wards and so forth and so on. And that's why 385 00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:03.759 I was able to get in some information regarding with 386 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:06.400 men who was one of the aides in the war. Anyway, 387 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.200 long story short, this is where it really gets interesting. 388 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:18.000 Bliss thought he was an inventor, and Lincoln with finances inventions, 389 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:28.440 and they all failed. And so what happened was eventually 390 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:33.599 the President Lincoln, you know, went to Ford's Theater was 391 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:40.160 shot by John Willis Boot And it happened that by coincidence, 392 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:45.680 Charles Leal, a doctor from Yonkers, New York, was there, 393 00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:50.559 and Leo worked for Bliss at the at the hospital. 394 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.799 So after, you know, after they treated Lincoln on the spot, 395 00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:00.519 they moved him across the street to uh to Pyrson's 396 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:05.480 boarding house, and then they summoned various doctors to come 397 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:08.759 in out. So what does he do. He summons his boss, 398 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:13.559 who's Willard Bliss. Will get this. This is the one 399 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:16.839 part that's really interesting. Bliss was supposed to be a surgeon. 400 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:22.039 And in those days, what they did was when they 401 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:26.880