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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever thought you knew exactly where a story

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<v Speaker 1>was going, only to have the rug pulled out from

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<v Speaker 1>under you so violently you actually get whiplash.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh. Absolutely, it's the wildest.

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<v Speaker 1>Feeling, right, I mean, imagine for a second that you

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<v Speaker 1>are doing this massive, thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. You've spent hours,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe even weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>On it, just agonizing over every little piece exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>You've sorted all the edges, You've painstakingly color matched the

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<v Speaker 1>varying shades of the sky and the grass. You've totally

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<v Speaker 1>convinced yourself you were building this beautiful, serene landscape.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you see the big picture, or so you think.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And right as you go to place that very

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<v Speaker 1>final satisfying piece right in the center, you take a

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<v Speaker 1>step back and you realize you have been looking at

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<v Speaker 1>a completely different picture the entire time.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that is the worst.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the landscape you thought you were building is actually

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<v Speaker 1>a portrait or a maze or something entirely terrifying and unrecognizable.

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<v Speaker 2>That profound, almost dizzying sense of disorientation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, that collapse of everything you thought was true, And

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<v Speaker 1>that is exactly what we are untacking today. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>thrilling threads.

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<v Speaker 2>I am so ready for this.

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<v Speaker 1>We have gathered a stack of source material that proves

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<v Speaker 1>human deception goes like far far deeper than simple white lies.

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<v Speaker 1>We are looking at some of the most mind bending

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<v Speaker 1>true crime documentaries ever made, and.

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<v Speaker 2>We're really dissecting the terrifying lengths human beings will go

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<v Speaker 2>to for power, control and survival.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a crucial distinction to make right at the start,

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<v Speaker 1>we are not just talking about people who lie to

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<v Speaker 1>cover up a mistake.

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<v Speaker 2>No, not at all. We are examining the complete, deliberate

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<v Speaker 2>fabrication of reality. Deception at the level we are exploring

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<v Speaker 2>today is honestly an intricate art form. An art form

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<v Speaker 2>wow yeah, I mean it functions as a weapon to

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<v Speaker 2>attack and a shield to hide behind, all at once.

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<v Speaker 2>And what is truly fascinating from psychological perspective is how

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<v Speaker 2>this level of deception reshapes the world like.

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<v Speaker 1>Not just for the victims who are trapped in the.

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<v Speaker 2>Line exactly, it reshapes reality for the perpetrators who have

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<v Speaker 2>maintain it, the investigators who try to unravel it, and

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<v Speaker 2>eventually for us as the audience. We are talking about

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<v Speaker 2>a phenomenon we might call a pistemological vertigo.

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<v Speaker 1>The pistemological vertigo, Okay, I love that term.

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<v Speaker 2>It's that dizzy sensation when your foundational understanding of what

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<v Speaker 2>is real completely drops out from under you.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a feeling we are going to be coming

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<v Speaker 1>back to that term a lot today, because I can

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<v Speaker 1>promise you this, by the time we finish going through

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<v Speaker 1>these sources, you are going to question everything you think

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<v Speaker 1>you know about.

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<v Speaker 2>Trust, oh for sure, about identity too.

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<v Speaker 1>And quite frankly, about the people you interact with every

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<v Speaker 1>single day. You might find yourself looking sideways at your

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<v Speaker 1>digital footprint, your own memories, and your closest relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>It really gets under your skin, it does.

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<v Speaker 1>But to truly understand how these incredibly dark, sophisticated deceptions

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<v Speaker 1>take root, we actually have to start with something that

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<v Speaker 1>on the surface seems completely.

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<v Speaker 2>Absurd, almost laughable.

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<v Speaker 1>Really, I want to talk about how abusers use the

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<v Speaker 1>sheer bizarre nature of their crimes as a literal shield.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever heard of competitive endurance tickling?

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<v Speaker 2>I can safely say that, until reviewing this source material

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<v Speaker 2>for this show, competitive endurance tickling was entirely absent from

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<v Speaker 2>my radar.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, it sounds like a joke.

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<v Speaker 2>And that in itself is the very mechanism of the deception.

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<v Speaker 1>It totally is. It sounds like a weird late night

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<v Speaker 1>internet rabbit hole you fall down when you can't sleep,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is exactly how journalist David Ferrier treated it

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<v Speaker 1>when he first stumbled across these videos online.

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<v Speaker 2>Videos featuring young athletic men participating in this so called

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<v Speaker 2>endurance tickling.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, Ferrier is a guy who has made a

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<v Speaker 1>career out of investigating the weird, fringe subcultures of the world,

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<v Speaker 1>so to him, this felt like a lighthearted, goofy human

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<v Speaker 1>interest story.

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<v Speaker 2>He starts digging and discovers an American company called Jane

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<v Speaker 2>O'Brien Media running these monthly events.

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<v Speaker 1>And the setup they had was incredibly lucrative, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the first hook. You know, young athletes from anywhere on

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<v Speaker 1>the planet could apply, and if they were selected, this

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<v Speaker 1>company flew them out to Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, what can all expenses paid.

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<v Speaker 1>Trip completely, They put them up for four nights in

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<v Speaker 1>a really nice hotel, and they handed them fifteen hundred

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<v Speaker 1>dollars in cold hard cash. And the only requirement just

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<v Speaker 1>to be tickled on camera, exactly, just be tickled.

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<v Speaker 2>On camera, but the narrative pivots violently from a quirky

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<v Speaker 2>subculture piece into something deeply sinister. The moment Ferrier attempts

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<v Speaker 2>to do basic journalistic due diligence.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is just like asking simple questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Right when he simply reached out to ask some standard

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<v Speaker 2>boilerplate questions about the company, the reaction from the people

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<v Speaker 2>behind these videos wasn't just defensive, it.

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<v Speaker 1>Was aggressively, disproportionately hostile.

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<v Speaker 2>We are talking about immediate, vicious legal threats, blatant intimidation tactics, homophobia,

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<v Speaker 2>and highly coordinated attempts to completely silence any critics.

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<v Speaker 1>Which, if you think about it for more than two seconds,

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<v Speaker 1>makes absolutely zero sense. I mean, if you were running

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<v Speaker 1>a silly concent tickling competition, why do you have a

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<v Speaker 1>vicious team of attack lawyers on standby.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the ultimate red flag.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like clicking on a funny cat meme and somehow

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<v Speaker 1>being instantly redirected to a dark web arms dealership. You

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<v Speaker 1>immediately know something is profoundly wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great analogy. So Ferrier keeps pushing, and.

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<v Speaker 1>What the documentary Tickled ultimately uncovers has very little to

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<v Speaker 1>do with the physical act of tickling, and absolutely everything

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<v Speaker 1>to do with power control and a massive harassment ring.

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<v Speaker 2>And the sheer scale of the deception is what gives

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<v Speaker 2>you that vertigo we talked about earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>Behind this entire global operation, behind the Jane O'Brien media facade,

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<v Speaker 1>behind the lawyers and the threats, was a single man.

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<v Speaker 2>Operating through a complex, dizzying web of aliases.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, aliases and shell companies, just to exert immense power

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<v Speaker 1>over these young men.

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<v Speaker 2>And we really need to analyze the specific mechanics of

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<v Speaker 2>how we got away with this for so long. This

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<v Speaker 2>is where the concept of the shield of the bazaar

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<v Speaker 2>becomes so relevant.

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<v Speaker 1>The shield of the bizarre. Break that down for us.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when we think of abusers or organized harassment, we

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<v Speaker 2>expect the methodology to look a certain way, intimidating, violent,

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<v Speaker 2>traditionally criminal.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, like something out of a mafia movie exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>But this perpetrator deliberately hid in plain sight by weaponizing absurdity.

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<v Speaker 2>Think about it from the victim's perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you are a young, perhaps struggling athlete, You

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<v Speaker 1>take a weird gig for easy.

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<v Speaker 2>Money, and suddenly this entity turns on you. They threaten

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<v Speaker 2>to ruin your life, ruin your career, out you to

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<v Speaker 2>your friends and family with these bizarre videos if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't comply with their escalating demands.

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<v Speaker 1>But why not just go to the police. That's what

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<v Speaker 1>I kept asking myself while reviewing the notes for this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's embarrassing, yeah, but if someone is blackmailing you, you

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<v Speaker 1>go to the authorities. How does someone orchestrate a highly

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<v Speaker 1>financed harassment ring around something so fundamentally ridiculous without getting

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<v Speaker 1>caught by the cops sooner?

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<v Speaker 2>Because the abuser knows exactly how the police and society

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<v Speaker 2>at large will react. The premise of tickling sounds so

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<v Speaker 2>inherently juvenile and silly. The victims are paralyzed by shame.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I see. They are terrified of the ridicule.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. If a twenty year old athlete walks into a

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<v Speaker 2>police precinct and says, I am being subjected to a

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<v Speaker 2>global extortion campaign by a tickling syndicate.

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<v Speaker 1>The cops are going to laugh at him.

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<v Speaker 2>The immediate reaction from an overworked detective is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be skepticism, confusion, or outright laughter. The absurdity creates the

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<v Speaker 2>absolute perfect smoke screen for a control freak.

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<v Speaker 1>It isolates the victims instantly. It weaponizes their own potential

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<v Speaker 1>embarrassment against them.

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<v Speaker 2>The perpetrator constructed a reality where the victims felt completely

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<v Speaker 2>trapped by the ridiculousness of their own victimization.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, they are literally imprisoned by the punchline of the joke.

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<v Speaker 1>The absurdity is the cage. It's terrifyingly effective, and the

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<v Speaker 1>sources note that even after the documentary aired, even after

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<v Speaker 1>Ferrier bravely exposed all of this to the world, the

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<v Speaker 1>lawsuits and the harassment from this man just kept coming.

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<v Speaker 2>He was just so insulated by his wealth and his

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<v Speaker 2>aliases that he thought he was untouchable.

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<v Speaker 1>But the truly frustrating, maddening part of this story is

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<v Speaker 1>the lack of a satisfying resolution.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the tough part.

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<v Speaker 1>The man at the center of it all died in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seventeen before ever facing true legal accountability for the

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<v Speaker 1>dozens of lives he ruined.

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<v Speaker 2>It just proves that the Internet allows people to build

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<v Speaker 2>these elaborate, insulated kingdoms of abuse where they can play

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<v Speaker 2>god behind a keyboard.

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<v Speaker 1>And that reliance on the anonymity of the digital world

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<v Speaker 1>to construct a false reality transitions us perfectly into our

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<v Speaker 1>next case study.

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<v Speaker 2>It really does. While the perpetrator and tickled used shell

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<v Speaker 2>companies and a bizarre premise to hide his identity, our

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<v Speaker 2>next manipulator used the digital sphere for something even darker.

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<v Speaker 1>To completely rewrite the fundamental line between life and death.

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<v Speaker 1>We're moving from abusers who hide behind a joke to

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<v Speaker 1>abusers who hide behind a ghost.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and this is where it gets deeply terrifying for

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who has ever used a dating app.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is based half the planet. At this point, let's

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<v Speaker 1>look at the source material regarding lover Stalker Killer.

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<v Speaker 2>The story starts out sounding like a completely standard, incredibly

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<v Speaker 2>relatable modern dating headache totally.

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<v Speaker 1>We have Dave Krupa, a mechanic living in Nebraska. He

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<v Speaker 1>is fresh out of a long term relationship. He gets

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<v Speaker 1>on the dating app plenty of fish and he is

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<v Speaker 1>just looking for something.

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<v Speaker 2>Casual, nothing serious at all, right.

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<v Speaker 1>He briefly dates two different women. He meets Carrie Farver

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<v Speaker 1>and Liz Goliard. Then suddenly Carrie just vanishes. She ghosts

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<v Speaker 1>him in real life.

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<v Speaker 2>But the digital ghosting doesn't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>No. Instead, Dave starts getting these relentless, unhinged, deeply threatening

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<v Speaker 1>messages from Carrie's phone and email.

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<v Speaker 2>And this harassment campaign doesn't just last for a few

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<v Speaker 2>angry weeks, it goes on for years.

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<v Speaker 1>Years. The police get involved, and naturally, based on the evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>their primary suspect is Carrie Farver.

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<v Speaker 2>They think she is this incredibly obsessive, dangerous, fatal attraction

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<v Speaker 2>style ex girlfriend who just I don't let go of

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<v Speaker 2>a guy she dated casually for a couple of weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is the most logical assumption based on the digital footprint.

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<v Speaker 1>The messages are coming from her accounts, Her phone number

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<v Speaker 1>is pinging from various towers.

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<v Speaker 2>The investigators are following a trail of digital breadcrumbs that

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<v Speaker 2>clearly spell out Carrie's guilt.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is where the epistemological vertigo hits hard. The

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<v Speaker 1>digital evidence eventually revealed a deception so profound, so labor intensive,

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<v Speaker 1>it defies her basic understanding of human psychology.

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<v Speaker 2>The shocking truth was that Liz Goliar, the other woman

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<v Speaker 2>Dave had casually dated, was behind the entire harassment campaign.

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<v Speaker 1>But she wasn't just like spoofing to Mary's number to

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<v Speaker 1>scare off romantic competition.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it was so much worse. Liz Goliar had actually

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<v Speaker 2>murdered Carrie Farvar, disposed of her body, and then spent

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<v Speaker 2>years masquerading as her digitally.

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<v Speaker 1>Just to misdirect the investigators and systematically torture Dave. I

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<v Speaker 1>just have to pause and really sit with that for

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<v Speaker 1>a second.

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<v Speaker 2>It's allowed to process.

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<v Speaker 1>We swipe right, we invite a stranger into our lives.

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<v Speaker 1>We assume the digital foot print matches a living, breathing

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<v Speaker 1>human footprint. The sheer psychological stamina it would take to execute.

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<v Speaker 2>This, it's practically unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>Think about it. You murder a woman, you dispose of her,

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<v Speaker 1>and then instead of fleeing, instead of laying lo you

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<v Speaker 1>wake up every single day for years. You log into

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<v Speaker 1>her accounts, you adopt her voice.

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<v Speaker 2>You pretend to be the woman you killed.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, just to ruin a man's life, while simultaneously pretending

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<v Speaker 1>to be the supportive girlfriend to that very same man

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<v Speaker 1>in real life. It's sickening.

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<v Speaker 2>It requires a level of cognitive dissonance and malice that

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<v Speaker 2>is almost impossible to comprehend.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember reading about a similar case where a person

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<v Speaker 1>maintained a fake persona for a few months and talked

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<v Speaker 1>about how exhausting it was. Liz did this for years

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<v Speaker 1>with the highest possible stakes.

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<v Speaker 2>It dives into the unique, unprecedented terror of the digital age.

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<v Speaker 2>Before the Internet, if you killed someone, they were gone.

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<v Speaker 1>They were just gone.

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<v Speaker 2>But we now live in a world where it is

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<v Speaker 2>entirely possible to keep a dead person alive online to

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<v Speaker 2>torture the living. A person's digital existence can now outlast

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<v Speaker 2>their physical existence.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the hands of a psychopath like Liz Goliar,

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<v Speaker 1>that digital ghost becomes a highly effective weapon of misdirection.

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<v Speaker 2>And consider the incredibly complex dilemma that's presented for law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh Man, the poor detective.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, one of the lead investigators in the case, as

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<v Speaker 2>to pivotal paradigm shifting question, how do you prove a

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<v Speaker 2>murder without a body when the victim is seemingly texting

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<v Speaker 2>you every day?

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<v Speaker 1>That is wild. The detectives had to first prove that

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<v Speaker 1>Carrie was actually dead despite her active digital presence, and second.

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<v Speaker 2>That Liz was the one who killed her, Relying almost

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<v Speaker 2>entirely on painstaking digital forensics.

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<v Speaker 1>They had to map out IP addresses, trace overlapping timelines,

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<v Speaker 1>and prove that Liz was physically holding the device that

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<v Speaker 1>was sending the messages from Careery.

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<v Speaker 2>Ultimately, Liz Goliar was convicted of first Green.

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<v Speaker 1>Murder, but the psychological toll on Dave, who thought he

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<v Speaker 1>was being hunted by Careery, and on Creery's family who

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<v Speaker 1>held out hope she was alive because of those messages,

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<v Speaker 1>it is simply incalculable.

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<v Speaker 2>It is the ultimate violation of our modern reality.

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<v Speaker 1>You're being terrorized by a phantom, and that phantom is

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<v Speaker 1>being orchestrated by the person sitting right next to you

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<v Speaker 1>on the couch watching you suffer.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. But while Liz Goliar hid behind a screen, behind

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<v Speaker 2>the ones and zeros of the Internet to pull off

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<v Speaker 2>her deception, some manipulators have this sheer audacity, the unbelievable

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<v Speaker 2>sociopathic nerve to steal identities right to people's faces.

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<v Speaker 1>We are moving from digital ghosts to physical impostors, and

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<v Speaker 1>this brings us to a case that deals heavily with

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<v Speaker 1>the fragility of our own perceptions and the terrifying concept

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<v Speaker 1>of wilful blindness.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about this source material for the impostor.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a case study and how desperately human beings

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<v Speaker 1>want to believe a comforting lie rather than face a devastating,

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<v Speaker 1>horrifying truth.

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<v Speaker 2>It challenges everything we assume about parental instant and recognition.

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<v Speaker 1>This story is so wild it feels like a bad

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<v Speaker 1>rejected Hollywood's script, but it is entirely documented truth. We

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<v Speaker 1>have a guy named Frederick Bourband.

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<v Speaker 2>A French serial impostor well into his twenties.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he has dark brown hair, dark brown eyes, a

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<v Speaker 1>five o'clock shadow, and a very noticeable distinct French accent.

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<v Speaker 2>Yet somehow this man manages to convince authorities and subsequently

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<v Speaker 2>aggrieving family in Texas that he is their missing teenage son,

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<v Speaker 2>Nicholas Barclay.

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<v Speaker 1>Now let's look at the real Nicholas. Nicholas was a

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<v Speaker 1>blonde haired, blue eyed, thirteen year old kid from San Antonio, Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>The physical discrepancy isn't just a matter of him aging

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<v Speaker 2>a few years.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a complete biological mismatch. And yet Burdin gets

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<v Speaker 1>on a plane, flies to America, meets his family, and

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<v Speaker 1>they welcome him home.

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<v Speaker 2>They literally take him into their house, enroll him in

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<v Speaker 2>high school, and live with him.

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<v Speaker 1>The initial visceral reaction from anyone hearing these facts is

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<v Speaker 1>a resounding how is that physically possible?

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly? How do you not recognize that this grown french

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<v Speaker 2>man with brown eye is not your blonde, blue eyed

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<v Speaker 2>text and child?

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<v Speaker 1>The cognitive gap is so vast it seems unbridgable. If

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<v Speaker 1>you can't recognize your own child's eye color, I just

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<v Speaker 1>can't wrap my head around it.

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<v Speaker 2>But the story doesn't just stop at the physical impossibility.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it doesn't. Once Bourden is finally exposed, because you

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<v Speaker 1>can't fake eye color in Age Forever, a private investigator

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<v Speaker 1>eventually figures it out, Bordena doesn't just apologize and go

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<v Speaker 1>quietly to jail.

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<v Speaker 2>He drops an absolute bomb.

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<v Speaker 1>He suggests quite forcefully that the Barclay family knew he

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't Nicholas.

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<v Speaker 2>All along, and that they had their own, dark, sinister

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<v Speaker 2>reasons for playing along with the charade.

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<v Speaker 1>Nicholas Barclay, should be noted, has never been found. Borden

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<v Speaker 1>actually has this incredibly chilling quote in the Sources where

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<v Speaker 1>he says, I didn't need to be Colombo to put

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<v Speaker 1>all the pieces together. They killed him. Some of them

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<v Speaker 1>did it, some of them knew of it, some of

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<v Speaker 1>them choose to ignore.

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<v Speaker 2>It, which forces us to analyze an incredibly uncomfortable psychological

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<v Speaker 2>debate regarding grief versus willful complicity.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, unpack that for us.

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<v Speaker 2>On one hand, you have the immense blinding power of trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>When a family loses a child to the unknown, the

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<v Speaker 2>desperation to have them back, to have closure can create

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<v Speaker 2>a psychological state of profound denial.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess the human mind is a remarkably

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<v Speaker 1>fragile and malleable instrument.

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<v Speaker 2>Under extreme duress, it can literally overwrite sensory input. The

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<v Speaker 2>psychological literature on confirmation bias shows that if the emotional

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<v Speaker 2>payoff is high enough, people will ignore eye color, age, discrepancies,

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<v Speaker 2>and accents.

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<v Speaker 1>They will invent rationalization.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly the family convinced themselves his eyes change color from

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<v Speaker 2>medical trauma, where his accent changed from being held captive

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<v Speaker 2>by a European pedophile ring. The brain protects itself from

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<v Speaker 2>the agony of loss by accepting the impostor.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm sorry, I have to jump in and push

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<v Speaker 1>back on that heavily. I refuse to accept that grief

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<v Speaker 1>alone causes this level of blindness.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't buy the trauma angle.

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<v Speaker 1>I can understand thinking someone looks different after three years

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<v Speaker 1>I cannot understand looking into the dark brown eyes of

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<v Speaker 1>a grown Frenchman and seeing a blue eyed Texan child.

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<v Speaker 2>It is definitely a stretch.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it really possible to want to lie to be

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<v Speaker 1>true so badly that your brain literally rewrites what your

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<v Speaker 1>very own eyes are seeing in broad daylight? Or is

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<v Speaker 1>Bordin right?

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<v Speaker 2>Was this family using this obvious con artist as a

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<v Speaker 2>convenient walking alibi because they were somehow responsible for Nicholas's disappearance.

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<v Speaker 1>It creates this horrific, tense standoff between a documented master

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<v Speaker 1>manipulator and a potentially complicit, guilty family.

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<v Speaker 2>And the brilliance of the way this story is documented

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<v Speaker 2>is that it leaves you completely suspended in that ambiguity.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't give you the comforting answer.

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<v Speaker 2>You are forced to question the reliability of every single

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<v Speaker 2>person involved. Bordin is a known liar, so you can't

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<v Speaker 2>trust him. The family's actions defy logic, so you can't

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<v Speaker 2>trust them.

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<v Speaker 1>It highlights that sometimes deception isn't just a one way

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<v Speaker 1>street where a predator fool is a victim. Sometimes deception

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<v Speaker 1>is a symbiotic relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a dark economy of lies. Foster needed a home

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<v Speaker 2>and a stage, to perform on and the family needed

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<v Speaker 2>a son, either to heal their grief or to serve

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<v Speaker 2>as a distraction from a much darker truth.

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<v Speaker 1>They fed off each other's lies. That concept of symbiotic

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<v Speaker 1>deception is deeply unsettling, very much, and it ties right

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<v Speaker 1>into our next source, which also deals with the malleability

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<v Speaker 1>of reality and memory, but from a completely different, intensely

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<v Speaker 1>intimate angle.

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<v Speaker 2>We are moving from external deception a stranger tricking a family,

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<v Speaker 2>to internal deception.

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<v Speaker 1>Where the lie comes from the person you trust most

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<v Speaker 1>in the universe. Let's look at the source material for

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<v Speaker 1>Tell Me Who I Am? This one is an absolute

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<v Speaker 1>emotional gut punch, it really is. Here is the setup.

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<v Speaker 1>A young man named Alex Lewis gets into a horrific

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<v Speaker 1>motorcycle crash when he is eighteen years old. He wakes

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<v Speaker 1>up from a coma with severe, profound amnesia.

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<v Speaker 2>He literally remembers nothing of his life, his parents, his childhood,

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<v Speaker 2>his own name.

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<v Speaker 1>The only thing The only person he recognizes when he

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<v Speaker 1>opens his eyes is his identical twin brother, Marcus.

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<v Speaker 2>So Marcus takes on the monumental, godlike task of reconstructing

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<v Speaker 2>Alex's entire life and his memories from scratch.

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<v Speaker 1>Marcus essentially becomes the sole author of Alex's reality. He

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<v Speaker 1>tells him about their supposedly idyllic childhood, their loving, eccentric parents,

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00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:17.880
<v Speaker 1>the grand family home, the vacations.

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<v Speaker 2>He paints this beautiful, comforting, Norman Rockwell picture of who

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<v Speaker 2>Alex is and where he came from. He gives his

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<v Speaker 2>brother a history to anchor his identity.

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<v Speaker 1>But as with everything we are discussing today, there is

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<v Speaker 1>a massive structural lie at the center of it. As

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00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.720
<v Speaker 1>they get older, the cracks and the facade start to

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<v Speaker 1>show right.

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<v Speaker 2>The parents pass away, they had to clear out the

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<v Speaker 2>family home, and Marcus can no longer hold a narrative together.

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<v Speaker 1>He painted a happy picture, but he deliberately systematically left

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<v Speaker 1>out devastating, horrifying family secrets regarding their mother's genuinely evil

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<v Speaker 1>deeds and.

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<v Speaker 2>The severe, unspeakable sexual abuse both brothers suffered throughout their childhood.

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<v Speaker 1>When Alex finally uncovers the truth decades later, he is

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<v Speaker 1>forced to con in front not just the magnitude of

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<v Speaker 1>the trauma he actually endured, but the profound guilt, rage,

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00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:09.119
<v Speaker 1>and betrayal he feels toward the brother who lied to

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<v Speaker 1>his face every single day for thirty years.

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<v Speaker 2>What is philosophically fascinating here is the concept of memory

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<v Speaker 2>as a constructor, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And how it forms the bedrock of our identity. Without

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<v Speaker 1>our memories, who are we really?

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<v Speaker 2>Are we just the sum of the stories we are

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<v Speaker 2>told about ourselves. Marcus literally played god with his brother's mind.

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<v Speaker 1>He had a blank slate and he chose to write

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<v Speaker 1>a fairy tale over a horror story.

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<v Speaker 2>And it presents a profoundly complex ethical dilemma that you,

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<v Speaker 2>the audience, have to wrestle with deeply.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it an act of profound, unconditional sacrificial love to

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<v Speaker 1>shield a traumatized loved one from their darkest nightmares by

432
00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:45.200
<v Speaker 1>simply erasing them?

433
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.359
<v Speaker 2>Or is it the ultimate betrayal, the ultimate theft of autonomy,

434
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.160
<v Speaker 2>to deny a human being their true reality, no matter

435
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:52.920
<v Speaker 2>how agonizing that reality is.

436
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.039
<v Speaker 1>I look at it with this intense empathetic view for

437
00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.079
<v Speaker 1>both of them, but mostly for the profound isolation it created.

438
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.759
<v Speaker 1>The major thing about being a twin, the cultural myth

439
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.200
<v Speaker 1>we all hold is that you're supposed to never be alone.

440
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.519
<v Speaker 1>You share everything from the womb, but here because of

441
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.839
<v Speaker 1>this massive orchestrated lie Alex was entirely alone in his

442
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.359
<v Speaker 1>own mind. He was living in a dollhouse built by

443
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:15.839
<v Speaker 1>his brother.

444
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:20.000
<v Speaker 2>And conversely, Marcus carried the absolute crushing agony of their

445
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:24.759
<v Speaker 2>real childhood completely by himself, trying to protect this fragile

446
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:25.640
<v Speaker 2>bubble for his brother.

447
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.480
<v Speaker 1>So I have to ask you, listening right now, put

448
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:32.079
<v Speaker 1>yourself in Marcus's shoes. If you could erase a loved

449
00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:36.680
<v Speaker 1>one's worst, most traumatic memory, just hit delete, wipe away

450
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:39.000
<v Speaker 1>the pain and replace it with a happy story. Would

451
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:39.599
<v Speaker 1>you do it?

452
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:41.119
<v Speaker 2>It's an impossible question.

453
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.599
<v Speaker 1>And more importantly, do you even have the moral right

454
00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:45.720
<v Speaker 1>to alter someone else's reality?

455
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.519
<v Speaker 2>That is the crux of the tragedy, because eventually the

456
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.400
<v Speaker 2>fabricated foundation will crack. Reality always demands its due.

457
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:54.839
<v Speaker 1>And when it does, the secondary trauma of the deception

458
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:55.799
<v Speaker 1>is just brutal.

459
00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh, the realization that your entire adult life was a

460
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.559
<v Speaker 2>curated again exhibit is often just as damaging, if not

461
00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:07.359
<v Speaker 2>more so, than the original abuse. The lie, however well intentioned,

462
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.240
<v Speaker 2>becomes a second layer of trauma.

463
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Exactly tell me who I Am really shows how a

464
00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.400
<v Speaker 1>family home which is supposed to be your ultimate safe

465
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.720
<v Speaker 1>haven can actually be a prison of secrets.

466
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:22.160
<v Speaker 2>And that observation leads us seamlessly into our next case.

467
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Where the family home itself becomes a chaotic battleground for

468
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.920
<v Speaker 1>the truth. If we were dealing with the internal collapse

469
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.400
<v Speaker 1>of memory, we are now looking at the external collapse

470
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:31.440
<v Speaker 1>of the justice system.

471
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.839
<v Speaker 2>Let's dive into the source material for capturing the.

472
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Freedman's This documentary is a monumental achievement in filmmaking, precisely

473
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:42.319
<v Speaker 1>because it induces that epistemological vertigo we discussed earlier better

474
00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:43.960
<v Speaker 1>than almost anything else on film.

475
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:46.160
<v Speaker 2>This one will absolutely make your head spin.

476
00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.400
<v Speaker 1>The story is set in the nineteen eighties in an

477
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.559
<v Speaker 1>affluent suburban neighborhood in Great Neck, New York. Arnold Friedman,

478
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.680
<v Speaker 1>a seemingly normal, highly respected suburban father and computer teacher,

479
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.599
<v Speaker 1>and his teenage son Jesse, are suddenly accused of horrifying,

480
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.839
<v Speaker 1>widespread sexual abuse, specifically.

481
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Of the young boys who took computer classes in the

482
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:06.839
<v Speaker 2>Freedman's basement.

483
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.039
<v Speaker 1>The accusations are sweeping. Panic immediately takes over the community,

484
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.240
<v Speaker 1>and at first glance, it seems like a straightforward, albeit

485
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.359
<v Speaker 1>tragic and horrific true crime procedural.

486
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.839
<v Speaker 2>Right Initially, the narrative follows the very familiar, almost comforting

487
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:27.440
<v Speaker 2>pattern we expect from the justice system. Accusation, police investigation, arrest,

488
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:28.319
<v Speaker 2>and prosecution.

489
00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:32.200
<v Speaker 1>We rely on the justice system to step in, identify

490
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:36.400
<v Speaker 1>the monsters, and restore order to a chaotic, terrifying situation.

491
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:38.440
<v Speaker 1>We expect clarity.

492
00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:40.960
<v Speaker 2>But clarity is the first casualty in this story.

493
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.680
<v Speaker 1>The freedmen's were avid, almost obsessive users of early home

494
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:49.519
<v Speaker 1>video cameras. They recorded everything family dinners, arguments, holidays.

495
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:52.359
<v Speaker 2>And the documentarians gain access to these raw, intimate home

496
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.079
<v Speaker 2>videos filmed by the family during the police investigation.

497
00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:58.279
<v Speaker 1>And the subsequent tearing a part of their lives, and

498
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.759
<v Speaker 1>these videos completely hopeless muddy the waters. You watch the

499
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:03.240
<v Speaker 1>family arguing in the kitchen.

500
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.759
<v Speaker 2>You see the police seemingly leading witnesses during interrogations.

501
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:09.440
<v Speaker 1>You see Arnold and Jesse behaving in ways that are

502
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:14.599
<v Speaker 1>deeply contradictory, sometimes appearing incredibly guilty, other times appearing like

503
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.960
<v Speaker 1>bewildered victims of a modern day witch hunt.

504
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Friends, lawyers, the allegedictims themselves, and the investigators all give

505
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:24.640
<v Speaker 2>completely conflicting accounts of what actually happened in that basement.

506
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:27.960
<v Speaker 1>This is where the story transcends. A simple true crime

507
00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:30.920
<v Speaker 1>narrative and becomes a study of truth itself.

508
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:35.240
<v Speaker 2>The metathene here is the collapse of certainty. Most media

509
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:38.359
<v Speaker 2>is designed to feed the viewer facts to construct a linear,

510
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:43.319
<v Speaker 2>cohesive narrative that guide you safely to a specific logical conclusion.

511
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:46.960
<v Speaker 1>This material does the exact opposite, imeticulously strips facts away

512
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.680
<v Speaker 1>until you are left with nothing to stand on.

513
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.519
<v Speaker 2>It exposes how the justice system desperately relies on definitive,

514
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.160
<v Speaker 2>black and white narratives, good guys, bad guys, clear timelines,

515
00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:57.119
<v Speaker 2>definitive motives.

516
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:01.000
<v Speaker 1>But human life, especially as it is captured in the raw, unedited,

517
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:06.480
<v Speaker 1>claustrophobic chaos of home video, is incredibly messy, contradictory, and ambiguous.

518
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.200
<v Speaker 2>It really is. You watch this footage and you are

519
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:13.480
<v Speaker 2>paralyzed by indecision. Both Arnold and Jesse eventually plead guilty,

520
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.319
<v Speaker 2>but the doubts absolutely never go away.

521
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Did they orchestrate a massive abuse ring right under the

522
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 1>mother's nose? Or were they railroaded by mass hysteria, over

523
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 1>zealous prosecutors and leading investigative techniques that planted false memories

524
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:29.880
<v Speaker 1>in children?

525
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:33.160
<v Speaker 2>And the most absurd, surreal moment of the entire film

526
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>The moment that perfectly encapsulates this vertigo is when Jesse

527
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Friedman is out on the courthouse steps.

528
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:41.680
<v Speaker 1>After taking a plea deal that will label him a

529
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:44.680
<v Speaker 1>sex offender for life and send him to state prison.

530
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:47.559
<v Speaker 2>And he is singing and dancing. His brothers are videotaping him,

531
00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:49.720
<v Speaker 2>and he is doing a little jig with a smile

532
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:50.319
<v Speaker 2>on his face.

533
00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.079
<v Speaker 1>What does it mean when the camera is rolling, capturing

534
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.720
<v Speaker 1>every pixel of an event, but the truth is entirely

535
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:57.960
<v Speaker 1>out of frame. How are we supposed to interpret a

536
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:00.880
<v Speaker 1>convicted predator dancing happily we're going to prison.

537
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:04.200
<v Speaker 2>It forces the viewer to confront their own ingrained biases

538
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.480
<v Speaker 2>and narrative expectations. We want criminals to look and act

539
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.240
<v Speaker 2>like remorseful monsters, and we want innocent people to act

540
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:12.640
<v Speaker 2>perfectly pious, terrified, and aggrieved.

541
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:16.880
<v Speaker 1>When a person acts completely outside of those expected parameters,

542
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:21.599
<v Speaker 1>our certainty collapses. We realize we are judging them based

543
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:23.440
<v Speaker 1>on a script they refuse to follow.

544
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Jesse was eventually freed in two thousand and one after

545
00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:29.160
<v Speaker 2>serving his time, and is fought for decades to clear

546
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:32.400
<v Speaker 2>his name, citing false memory syndrome and police coercion.

547
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:35.720
<v Speaker 1>But the viewer is left without closure. We just cannot

548
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.440
<v Speaker 1>know for sure what happened in that basement, and that

549
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:40.839
<v Speaker 1>lack of certainty is deeply unsettling.

550
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Is the ultimate puzzle with missing pieces.

551
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.920
<v Speaker 1>But if the freedmen's leave us dizzy with uncertainty, our

552
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 1>next subject leaves us dizzy with pure, unadulterated screaming rage.

553
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.640
<v Speaker 2>We are moving from a case where the parents were

554
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:56.000
<v Speaker 2>accused of being the monsters to a case where the

555
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.200
<v Speaker 2>parents unwittingly invited the monster to the dinner table.

556
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:01.759
<v Speaker 1>Over and over, let's look at abducted in plain sight.

557
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.799
<v Speaker 2>This case is a horrifying master class in psychological manipulation

558
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Speaker 2>and the insidious, invisible anatomy of grooming.

559
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:12.960
<v Speaker 1>The facts here sounds so fictitious, so incredibly contrived, that

560
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:15.240
<v Speaker 1>if you wrote this in a thriller novel, your publisher

561
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.279
<v Speaker 1>would reject it for being too unbelievable.

562
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:18.759
<v Speaker 2>It really strains credulity.

563
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.359
<v Speaker 1>We have a man named Robert briche told. He is

564
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:26.759
<v Speaker 1>a neighbor, a family friend, who systematically methodically manipulates the

565
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:28.359
<v Speaker 1>entire Broberg family.

566
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:32.119
<v Speaker 2>He targets the parents, Marianne and Bob specifically so he

567
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:36.599
<v Speaker 2>can get unfettered, unquestioned access to their young daughter, jan Brober.

568
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:39.759
<v Speaker 1>Whom he then proceeds to kidnap, not once, but repeatedly.

569
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:43.880
<v Speaker 2>The aspect that leaves audiences screaming at their televisions is

570
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.079
<v Speaker 2>the sheer incomprehensible gullibility and complicity of the parents. Oh

571
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>my god, Yes, we see Birch told manipulate the father, Bob,

572
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.000
<v Speaker 2>by exploiting his repressed sexual insecurities, drawing him into a

573
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.559
<v Speaker 2>compromising physical encounter.

574
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:01.599
<v Speaker 1>And he manipulates the mother, Mary Anne through a bizarre,

575
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:06.000
<v Speaker 1>fabricated romantic and spiritual connection, convincing her they were destined

576
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:06.559
<v Speaker 1>for each other.

577
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:09.799
<v Speaker 2>He compromised both parents so thoroughly, wrap them up so

578
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.359
<v Speaker 2>tightly in their own shame in his manipulation, that they

579
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:15.000
<v Speaker 2>constantly let him back into their lives, even after he

580
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.559
<v Speaker 2>had literally abducted their child across state lines.

581
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:19.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I have to be honest. My blood pressure

582
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:22.599
<v Speaker 1>spikes just talking about this. I want to be empathetic

583
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.920
<v Speaker 1>to the victims. I really do try to understand the

584
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:27.599
<v Speaker 1>power of manipulation, But how do you not see the

585
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:28.759
<v Speaker 1>neon red flags?

586
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:30.519
<v Speaker 2>It is incredibly frustrating to.

587
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Watch he kidnaps your daughter the FBI gets involved, You

588
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:35.400
<v Speaker 1>get her back, and then you let the guy come

589
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:37.480
<v Speaker 1>over for Sunday dinner. You let her sleep over at

590
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:38.200
<v Speaker 1>his house again.

591
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 2>It's madness.

592
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.000
<v Speaker 1>It makes you furious that the predator, obviously he's a monster,

593
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:46.359
<v Speaker 1>but you find yourself equally viscerally enraged at the parents.

594
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.039
<v Speaker 1>How does a father protect his own secret over his

595
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:50.880
<v Speaker 1>daughter's life.

596
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:53.759
<v Speaker 2>And then, to top it all off, you are left

597
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:57.759
<v Speaker 2>utterly defeated by a justice system that, after all of this,

598
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.640
<v Speaker 2>after multiple abductions and documented to be lets, Robert birch

599
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:02.440
<v Speaker 2>hooldt walk away.

600
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.440
<v Speaker 1>He literally spent ten days in a psychiatric facility and

601
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.000
<v Speaker 1>a short stint in jail, and was then allowed to

602
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.720
<v Speaker 1>move to a motor home in Salt Lake City ten

603
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.839
<v Speaker 1>days for stealing a child twice.

604
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:15.640
<v Speaker 2>It is enraging, but it is deeply instructive. We want

605
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:17.039
<v Speaker 2>to understand how predators operate.

606
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how so well?

607
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.799
<v Speaker 2>We tend to think of grooming as a solitary act,

608
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:25.000
<v Speaker 2>something a predator does solely to an isolated child. But

609
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:29.279
<v Speaker 2>birch Hold's genius, his evil, calculated genius, was that he

610
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:31.119
<v Speaker 2>groomed the entire family.

611
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.599
<v Speaker 1>And arguably the entire church community. They belonged to.

612
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:37.279
<v Speaker 2>He understood that to isolate Yon, he had to neutralize

613
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.119
<v Speaker 2>her protectors first. He compromised the parents to the point

614
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:45.200
<v Speaker 2>where exposing him would mean exposing their own deeply shameful,

615
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.039
<v Speaker 2>community destroying secrets.

616
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:50.559
<v Speaker 1>He created a psychological bear trap where the parent's silence

617
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:53.920
<v Speaker 1>was guaranteed by their own complicity in his bizarre games.

618
00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:57.480
<v Speaker 2>As the mother herself reflects in the sources, looking back

619
00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.960
<v Speaker 2>with decades of hindsight, it's like a mouse going ou

620
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:02.559
<v Speaker 2>into a trap. They never even saw it coming because

621
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:04.640
<v Speaker 2>the cheese was tailored specifically for them.

622
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>They were paralyzed by the fear of social ruin and

623
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:09.000
<v Speaker 1>religious excommunication.

624
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. It's the ultimate weaponization of suburban politeness, community trust,

625
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:15.240
<v Speaker 2>and religious authority.

626
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:17.559
<v Speaker 1>They were so terrified of a scandal, so afraid of

627
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:20.400
<v Speaker 1>what the neighbors would think, that they essentially sacrificed their

628
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:22.279
<v Speaker 1>own daughter on the altar of their reputation.

629
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:27.279
<v Speaker 2>And while jan Broberg thankfully survived her repeated abductions, lived

630
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.920
<v Speaker 2>to tell the tale and is now a powerful advocate

631
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:34.279
<v Speaker 2>for abuse survivors, others are swallowed entirely by their captors,

632
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Which leads.

633
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.279
<v Speaker 1>Us to a case where an entire identity isn't just manipulated,

634
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.720
<v Speaker 1>it is forged from scratch. In captivity, we.

635
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:45.359
<v Speaker 2>Are moving now from cases where reality is distorted by

636
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.480
<v Speaker 2>a predator to cases where reality is completely manufactured from

637
00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:52.960
<v Speaker 2>the ground up, erasing the victim's original self entirely.

638
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's talk about the documentary Girl in the picture.

639
00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:58.160
<v Speaker 1>If there is one piece of media on this list

640
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 1>that will haunt your waking thoughts long after the credits roll,

641
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.960
<v Speaker 1>it is this one.

642
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:04.160
<v Speaker 2>It is incredibly grim.

643
00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:07.599
<v Speaker 1>This story begins in April nineteen ninety a young woman

644
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.160
<v Speaker 1>named Sharon Marshall, who was also known to some as

645
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.799
<v Speaker 1>Tanya Hughes, working as an exotic dancer in Tulsa, Oklahoma,

646
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:16.079
<v Speaker 1>is found dying on the side of a road, the

647
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.200
<v Speaker 1>victim of an apparent hit and run.

648
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.640
<v Speaker 2>It's tragic but unfortunately common.

649
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>But when investigators try to figure out who she really is,

650
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 1>to trace her next of kin and notify her family,

651
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.880
<v Speaker 1>they hit a brick wall. They realize that Sharon Marshall

652
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:30.079
<v Speaker 1>doesn't actually exist.

653
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.240
<v Speaker 2>There is no birth certificate, there is no original Social

654
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Security number.

655
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.519
<v Speaker 1>Her entire identity was a ghost story. And the deeper

656
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.599
<v Speaker 1>the investigators and later investigative journalists dug into the archives,

657
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:43.799
<v Speaker 1>the more horrifying the truth became.

658
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:47.079
<v Speaker 2>The reality was that this woman had no real name,

659
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:50.880
<v Speaker 2>that she herself knew of her entire existence, her memories,

660
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:56.200
<v Speaker 2>her names, her relationships. It was all a horrifying, continuous

661
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.200
<v Speaker 2>performance orchestrated by a man named Franklin Delano Floyd.

662
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Franklin Delano Floyd, just speaking his name makes the hair

663
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:06.400
<v Speaker 1>on my arms stand up. This man is the definition

664
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:07.079
<v Speaker 1>of a monster.

665
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.720
<v Speaker 2>He originally claimed to be her father. He abducted her

666
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:11.000
<v Speaker 2>when she was just a little girl.

667
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.480
<v Speaker 1>He raised her, sent her to high school, where she

668
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:15.960
<v Speaker 1>was popular and smart. Then as she got older, the

669
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.200
<v Speaker 1>narrative shifted. He forced her to become his wife.

670
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.839
<v Speaker 2>Marrying her, moving her across multiple states under a constant,

671
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:26.680
<v Speaker 2>dizzying series of false identities. He controlled every single breath

672
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:27.359
<v Speaker 2>she took.

673
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.920
<v Speaker 1>And the tragedy compounds exponentially. Floyd also kidnapped the young

674
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.599
<v Speaker 1>son she had given birth to, Michael Anthony Hughes, and.

675
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:37.480
<v Speaker 2>In a horrific twenty fourteen FBI interview, after decades of

676
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:41.039
<v Speaker 2>silence on death row, Floyd finally confessed to killing the

677
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:43.640
<v Speaker 2>little boy, though his remains have never been found.

678
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.559
<v Speaker 1>What this case exposes, beyond the depravity of one man,

679
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:51.160
<v Speaker 1>is the terrifying reality of a completely stolen life.

680
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>It explores how abusers utilized transient lifestyles as an impenetrable shield.

681
00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:00.720
<v Speaker 2>By constantly moving across state lines, constantly changing name, pulling

682
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.680
<v Speaker 2>kids out of school the first sign of trouble, abusers

683
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:04.920
<v Speaker 2>can completely evade the.

684
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Law and utterly isolate their victims from any support system.

685
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Franklin Floyd exploited every single crack in the Americans social

686
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:13.599
<v Speaker 1>safety net.

687
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Sharon was a ghost in the system, completely dependent on

688
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:19.079
<v Speaker 2>the very man who was destroying her. She had no

689
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.279
<v Speaker 2>foundational reality to return to because he had stolen her

690
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:23.839
<v Speaker 2>past before she could even remember it.

691
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.359
<v Speaker 1>The scene in the documentary that absolutely breaks my heart,

692
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.960
<v Speaker 1>the one that highlights the systemic failure we are talking about,

693
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:30.960
<v Speaker 1>is when they discuss her in the hospital after the

694
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:31.559
<v Speaker 1>hit and run.

695
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that scene is tough.

696
00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:35.559
<v Speaker 1>The doctors are examining her broken body and they see

697
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:39.480
<v Speaker 1>the history of violence. They see old faded bruises, They

698
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:43.559
<v Speaker 1>see old bone fractures that have healed badly without medical attention.

699
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.440
<v Speaker 2>The doctors realize, right then and there, there is something very,

700
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:49.039
<v Speaker 2>very wrong with this picture.

701
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:50.599
<v Speaker 1>But by then it is too late. It makes you

702
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.599
<v Speaker 1>reflect on how easily society lets marginalize transient people slip

703
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:58.079
<v Speaker 1>through the cracks. How many teachers, neighbors, or police officers

704
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:00.960
<v Speaker 1>over the years saw Sharon, saw the bone deep fear

705
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:03.319
<v Speaker 1>in her eyes and just look the other way because

706
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:04.359
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't their business.

707
00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.559
<v Speaker 2>Because she was just a transient girl who moved away

708
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:10.760
<v Speaker 2>a week later. Her whole life was an illusion forced

709
00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:14.119
<v Speaker 2>upon her by a monster, aided by the apathy of society.

710
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.320
<v Speaker 1>And contrasting that deeply tragic forced fabrication of identity where

711
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.280
<v Speaker 1>the victim had no agency, our next case examines a

712
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.719
<v Speaker 1>completely voluntary, mutual fabrication of identity.

713
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:28.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a case where both parties eagerly construct false realities,

714
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:30.800
<v Speaker 2>but it ends in equally fatal consequences.

715
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Right we are pivoting from a physical forced kidnapping to

716
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:38.159
<v Speaker 1>a digital voluntary one. Let's explore the story of Tall

717
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Hot Blonde.

718
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:41.719
<v Speaker 2>The facts of this case are the absolute epitome of

719
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:44.760
<v Speaker 2>the early Internet's dark side, back when dial up internet

720
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:46.400
<v Speaker 2>and chat rooms with the wild West.

721
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:49.119
<v Speaker 1>We have a man named Thomas Montgomery. He is a

722
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.679
<v Speaker 1>forty seven year old married man living a completely mundane,

723
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.599
<v Speaker 1>predictable suburban life working at a factory.

724
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.199
<v Speaker 2>He decides to go into an internet chat room and

725
00:34:58.400 --> 00:34:59.800
<v Speaker 2>completely reinvents himself.

726
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:03.519
<v Speaker 1>He creates a profile as an eighteen year old, muscular,

727
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:08.000
<v Speaker 1>single marine preparing to deploy. He uses this fake persona

728
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:10.880
<v Speaker 1>to pursue a romance with a user whose screen name

729
00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.199
<v Speaker 1>is tall, hot blonde.

730
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Who goes by the name Jesse and claims to be

731
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.519
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful eighteen year old high school senior.

732
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:21.360
<v Speaker 1>It is a classic, almost cliche case of internet catfishing,

733
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.679
<v Speaker 1>a bored middle aged man seeking escapism.

734
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:27.239
<v Speaker 2>But the situation becomes highly combustible and breaks the digital

735
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.519
<v Speaker 2>boundary when a younger coworker of Montgomery's, a man named

736
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Brian Barrett in his early twenties, discovers what Montgomery is doing.

737
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Brian, who actually is young and single, decides to use

738
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.159
<v Speaker 1>his real identity his real photographs to pursue the same girl,

739
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:41.239
<v Speaker 1>Jesse online.

740
00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:44.119
<v Speaker 2>So now you have a ridiculously toxic love triangle.

741
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:46.679
<v Speaker 1>You have a forty seven year old man pretending to

742
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:49.559
<v Speaker 1>be eighteen and a real twenty two year old both

743
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:52.079
<v Speaker 1>vying for the affection of this teenage girl they have

744
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:53.039
<v Speaker 1>never met. In person.

745
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.519
<v Speaker 2>The jealousy between the two men, who are sitting right

746
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:58.920
<v Speaker 2>next to each other at their actual physical workplace, escalates

747
00:35:58.960 --> 00:35:59.880
<v Speaker 2>to a fever pitch.

748
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Montgomery is consumed by obsession and rage that this younger

749
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:07.679
<v Speaker 1>man is stealing his fantasy, and it ends an absolute tragedy.

750
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:12.159
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Montgomery drives to the factory parking lot and murders

751
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:14.239
<v Speaker 1>his young coworker in cold blood.

752
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.559
<v Speaker 2>But the twist that elevates this from a tragic, pathetic

753
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:20.920
<v Speaker 2>workplace murder to a truly mind bending story of deception

754
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.760
<v Speaker 2>is the actual identity of the girl herself.

755
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.000
<v Speaker 1>As investigators dig into the digital footprint of tall Hoop

756
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Blonde after the murder, they uncover a staggering truth.

757
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:33.960
<v Speaker 2>The beautiful teenage girl both men believe they were romancing

758
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:36.599
<v Speaker 2>the girl they were competing for, the girl one man

759
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:38.960
<v Speaker 2>was willing to kill for was a complete fiction.

760
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Behind the screen name typing out the floating messages was

761
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:46.159
<v Speaker 1>actually Mary Schiler, a middle aged married woman in another state.

762
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:47.280
<v Speaker 2>To use The real Jesse's mother.

763
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:50.440
<v Speaker 1>The actual teenage daughter whose photos were used to lure

764
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.679
<v Speaker 1>these men, knew absolutely nothing about what her mother was

765
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:54.800
<v Speaker 1>doing with her identity.

766
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>It is an incredibly dark lethal version of a high

767
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.880
<v Speaker 2>school crush Gonka completely wrong.

768
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:04.639
<v Speaker 1>It is this bizarre symmetry of mutual delusion. You have

769
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:09.159
<v Speaker 1>Montgomery faking his identity to catfish a young girl, only

770
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:11.480
<v Speaker 1>to discover he is actually being catfished by a woman

771
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:12.239
<v Speaker 1>his own age.

772
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.719
<v Speaker 2>It's like two spiders catching each other in the same web.

773
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Imagine the psychological shock of that realization. Imagine the exact moment.

774
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Montgomery is sitting in a sterile police interrogation room.

775
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.000
<v Speaker 1>His life is over. He has murdered an innocent young man.

776
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.320
<v Speaker 1>He is going to prison for the rest of his life.

777
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.719
<v Speaker 2>And the detective slide a picture across.

778
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.599
<v Speaker 1>The table of the middle aged suburban housewife. He actually

779
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:39.079
<v Speaker 1>destroyed his life for it is Shakespearean. But it's Shakespeare

780
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:42.400
<v Speaker 1>played out with fifty six k modems and fatal consequences.

781
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:45.480
<v Speaker 1>But I have to ask, does that make Thomas a

782
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:46.920
<v Speaker 1>victim of her deception too?

783
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:50.199
<v Speaker 2>That is the debate this source material Sparks. Is Thomas

784
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:54.800
<v Speaker 2>a victim of a cruel catfish? Legally? No, Morally it's

785
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:55.639
<v Speaker 2>highly debatable.

786
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.519
<v Speaker 1>You have to remember his initial intent, right.

787
00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he was a forty seven year old man acting

788
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:02.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to seduce an eighteen year old high school student

789
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:05.920
<v Speaker 2>through lies. He wasn't a victim, he was a predator

790
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.000
<v Speaker 2>who simply got outplayed by another predator.

791
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:12.079
<v Speaker 1>But the psychological autopsy of Mary Schiler is particularly disturbing.

792
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:15.800
<v Speaker 1>How does a mother justify weaponizing her own daughter's identity

793
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.320
<v Speaker 1>to seek digital validation from strange men.

794
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:22.039
<v Speaker 2>It speaks to a profound pathological narcissism and the deeply

795
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:25.639
<v Speaker 2>addictive nature of online attention, where the real world collateral

796
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:29.159
<v Speaker 2>damage is entirely ignored for the sake of sustaining a fantasy.

797
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:32.360
<v Speaker 1>The collateral damage is what absolutely gets me. The real

798
00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Jesse's life is forever tainted by her mother's bizarre proxy romance.

799
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.119
<v Speaker 1>Her face is forever tied to a murder she had

800
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:40.280
<v Speaker 1>nothing to do with it.

801
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Solemnly shifts our tone entirely because sometimes the tragedy isn't

802
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:44.960
<v Speaker 2>just the crime itself.

803
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.119
<v Speaker 1>The initial crime is horrible, but the true devastation comes

804
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:51.719
<v Speaker 1>from the catastrophic failure of the institutions that are explicitly

805
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.559
<v Speaker 1>designed to protect the innocent from these predators.

806
00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:57.000
<v Speaker 2>And that brings us to cases where the deception isn't

807
00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:58.519
<v Speaker 2>just personal, it's systemic.

808
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.719
<v Speaker 1>These last two cases showcase what happens when the systems

809
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:05.079
<v Speaker 1>we rely on, the family courts, the bail system, and

810
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.840
<v Speaker 1>the sheer insulating weight of immense wealth create a protective

811
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:10.840
<v Speaker 1>bubble for the perpetrators.

812
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Allowing them to inflict even more pain on the victims.

813
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:16.519
<v Speaker 1>Let's start with a documentary that I honestly believe should

814
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:20.719
<v Speaker 1>come with a mandatory emotional warning label. Dear Zachary, A

815
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Letter to a son about his father.

816
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.519
<v Speaker 2>This is one of the most affecting pieces of media

817
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:26.599
<v Speaker 2>I have ever consumed.

818
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:29.280
<v Speaker 1>The story of how this film started is so pure,

819
00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:33.360
<v Speaker 1>so rooted in love. Filmmaker Kurt Kune wanted to make

820
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:36.119
<v Speaker 1>a memorial film for his best friend, Andrew Bagbie.

821
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Andrew was a beloved, warm, kind hearted doctor who was

822
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:40.199
<v Speaker 2>brutally murdered.

823
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Kurt decided to travel across the country, interview all of

824
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Andrew's friends, colleagues, and family, and compile this beautiful, loving

825
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:52.320
<v Speaker 1>tribute video so that Andrew's unborn infant son, Zachary, would

826
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.360
<v Speaker 1>one day know how amazing his father was.

827
00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:57.280
<v Speaker 2>It begins as an act of profound love, a digital

828
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:59.760
<v Speaker 2>scrapbook of grief, remembrance, and legacy.

829
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.440
<v Speaker 1>But the twist in this narrative is not a clever

830
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:06.320
<v Speaker 1>cinematic trick orchestrated by a director. It is a real time,

831
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:11.760
<v Speaker 1>agonizing documentation of a catastrophic systemic failure unfolding before the camera.

832
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Andrew's ex girlfriend, a woman named Shirley Turner, is the

833
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:18.159
<v Speaker 2>primary suspect. In fact, everyone knows she is the one

834
00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:21.360
<v Speaker 2>who murdered him, and she flees the United States to Canada.

835
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.960
<v Speaker 1>While she's in Canada, awaiting extradition and facing pending murder

836
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:27.800
<v Speaker 1>charges in the US, she gives birth to Zachary, and then,

837
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:32.679
<v Speaker 1>incredibly inexplicably, she is granted custody of the infant Zachary

838
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:33.960
<v Speaker 1>by a Canadian judge.

839
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:35.239
<v Speaker 2>She is allowed at on bail.

840
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:39.039
<v Speaker 1>The family, Andrew's devastated parents moved to Canada. They fight

841
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:41.559
<v Speaker 1>with every ounce of energy and money they have to

842
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:44.039
<v Speaker 1>get that baby away from the woman who murdered their son.

843
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:47.159
<v Speaker 1>They warn the courts, they warn child services.

844
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:49.800
<v Speaker 2>And they fail. The system fundamentally fails them.

845
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:52.880
<v Speaker 1>And then out on bail, Shirley Turner commits an even greater,

846
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 1>unspeakable atrocity. She takes her own life by jumping into

847
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.639
<v Speaker 1>the ocean, and she takes baby Zachary's life with her.

848
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.559
<v Speaker 2>The documentary evolves right before the viewer's eyes in a

849
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:07.199
<v Speaker 2>way that is utterly devastating. What started as a heartfelt

850
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:12.360
<v Speaker 2>memorial violently transforms into a damning, furious indictment of the

851
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:13.119
<v Speaker 2>justice system.

852
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:18.639
<v Speaker 1>It explains the profound, almost incomprehensible, bureaucratic failure that allowed

853
00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:22.840
<v Speaker 1>a suspected murderer who had shown extreme psychological instability and

854
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:26.159
<v Speaker 1>a flight risk to retain custody of the victim's child.

855
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:29.800
<v Speaker 2>It forces us to examine a legal system that prioritized

856
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:33.280
<v Speaker 2>the biological presumed right of the mother over the glaring,

857
00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:36.679
<v Speaker 2>flashing red flags of imminent danger to the child. The

858
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:38.960
<v Speaker 2>judge looked at the law rather than the reality.

859
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:43.000
<v Speaker 1>It is emotionally devastating. The source material notes that Andrew's

860
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.039
<v Speaker 1>father had to travel to claim the remains, and he

861
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:48.039
<v Speaker 1>made very very sure that he kept Zachary's body far

862
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:50.639
<v Speaker 1>away from the wicked woman who murdered him, ensuring they

863
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:51.639
<v Speaker 1>were not buried together.

864
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:53.119
<v Speaker 2>It is just gut wrenching.

865
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:56.760
<v Speaker 1>It proves that sometimes the biggest, most shocking twists and

866
00:41:56.840 --> 00:41:59.840
<v Speaker 1>true crime aren't these clever mysteries crafted by a master

867
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.559
<v Speaker 1>con artist like Frederick Borden.

868
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes the twist is just a senseless, blind, bureaucratic failure

869
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.800
<v Speaker 2>that costs an innocent child their life because someone didn't

870
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:11.920
<v Speaker 2>want to do the paperwork to keep a dangerous woman

871
00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:12.440
<v Speaker 2>in jail.

872
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.440
<v Speaker 1>However, out of this immense tragedy, the film actually became

873
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:20.920
<v Speaker 1>a powerful catalyst for real change. It directly contributed to

874
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.400
<v Speaker 1>changing Canadian bail laws, creating Zachary's bill.

875
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.360
<v Speaker 2>It prevents someone accused of a serious crime from easily

876
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:29.800
<v Speaker 2>getting bail when they pose a danger to children.

877
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.960
<v Speaker 1>It is a profound testament to the power of documentary

878
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:36.679
<v Speaker 1>filmmaking not just to observe reality, but to force reality

879
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.039
<v Speaker 1>to change. Kurt Kuhn weaponized his grief to ensure that

880
00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:42.199
<v Speaker 1>Zachary's death was not entirely in vain.

881
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.199
<v Speaker 2>But while Dear Zachary shows the tragic failure of a

882
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:49.159
<v Speaker 2>well meaning but legally blind system, our final case study

883
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:53.840
<v Speaker 2>demonstrates what happens when a perpetrator actively arrogantly manipulates a

884
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:56.280
<v Speaker 2>system that they believe they are fundamentally above.

885
00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:59.039
<v Speaker 1>This brings us to the grand finale of our exploration

886
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 1>into the arrogance of evil, the Jinks.

887
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.519
<v Speaker 2>I remember when this aired the entire world stopped to

888
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:04.639
<v Speaker 2>watch the finale.

889
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:07.360
<v Speaker 1>The story is centered around Robert Durst. He is an

890
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:10.400
<v Speaker 1>ultra wealthy, eccentric real estate error to one of the

891
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:11.960
<v Speaker 1>most powerful families in New York.

892
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:16.320
<v Speaker 2>For decades, He's been linked to three very suspicious violent deaths,

893
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:19.320
<v Speaker 2>the disappearance of his wife Kathleen in the early nineteen eighties,

894
00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:22.599
<v Speaker 2>the execution style murder of his close friend Susan Berman

895
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.880
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand, and the dismemberment of his neighbor Morris

896
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:27.079
<v Speaker 2>Black in Texas.

897
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Yet, through sheer wealth, high priced lawyers, jury manipulation, and

898
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:36.159
<v Speaker 1>bizarre legal loopholes, Durst managed to avoid any serious long

899
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:40.159
<v Speaker 1>term consequences for years. He even beat the Texas case

900
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:43.280
<v Speaker 1>by claiming self defense despite admitting to chopping up the body.

901
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.760
<v Speaker 2>The premise of the documentary is astonishing in itself, and

902
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:48.800
<v Speaker 2>it requires us to analyze the sociology of extreme wealth.

903
00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Director Andrew Jureki gains extensive, unprecedented interview access to Durst,

904
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:57.599
<v Speaker 1>and Durst participates willingly. He reaches out to the filmmaker.

905
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.719
<v Speaker 2>This is the crux of the psychological profile were examining here.

906
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:03.239
<v Speaker 2>The unparalleled hubris of the ultra.

907
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Wealthy Durst felt so utterly untouchable, so insulated by his

908
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.000
<v Speaker 1>money and his history of getting away with literal murder,

909
00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:12.280
<v Speaker 1>that his risk assessment was completely broken.

910
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.800
<v Speaker 2>He thought he could sit down for a multi part

911
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:18.559
<v Speaker 2>documentary about his own suspected crimes and simply outsmart the

912
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:20.840
<v Speaker 2>filmmaker with his charm and his check book.

913
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:25.320
<v Speaker 1>It is pure unfiltered arrogance. He thought he was the

914
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:27.800
<v Speaker 1>smartest guy in the room because his money always made

915
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.360
<v Speaker 1>him the most powerful guy in the room.

916
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:33.199
<v Speaker 2>And the twist. The twist is arguably the most famous

917
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.199
<v Speaker 2>moment in true crime television history.

918
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:39.599
<v Speaker 1>During the final interview, Jeroche confronts Durst with damning handwriting

919
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:43.679
<v Speaker 1>evidence linking him to Susan Berman's murder. Durst gets flustered,

920
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:45.000
<v Speaker 1>he asks to take a break.

921
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:47.480
<v Speaker 2>He gets up, still wearing his microphone, and he goes

922
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:48.840
<v Speaker 2>into the bathroom, but.

923
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.719
<v Speaker 1>He is completely unaware that his microphone is still hot,

924
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:55.599
<v Speaker 1>still recording every breath, every sound, and alone in the

925
00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:58.440
<v Speaker 1>bathroom washing his hands, he starts muttering.

926
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:00.239
<v Speaker 2>To himself and he says the words, what the hell

927
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:01.320
<v Speaker 2>did I do? Kill them?

928
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:04.320
<v Speaker 1>All? Of course, it is the ultimate unraveling of a

929
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:09.159
<v Speaker 1>narcissist's carefully constructed narrative. For decades, he had maintained this

930
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:13.039
<v Speaker 1>facade of the unlucky, misunderstood millionaire who just happened to

931
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:14.320
<v Speaker 1>be surrounded by tragedy.

932
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:17.920
<v Speaker 2>He spent millions of dollars building that reality, but in

933
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:21.679
<v Speaker 2>a moment of unguarded privacy, the mask slips entirely.

934
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.719
<v Speaker 1>The recording of that hot mic moment was a critical

935
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:27.159
<v Speaker 1>piece of evidence that ultimately led to his arrest and

936
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.159
<v Speaker 1>helped convict Durst of Susan Berman's murder. He finally died

937
00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:34.639
<v Speaker 1>in prison in twenty twenty two, his legacy permanently destroyed

938
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:36.239
<v Speaker 1>by his own unforced error.

939
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I would just marvel at the cinematic perfection of that reality.

940
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.199
<v Speaker 2>You couldn't write that into a Hollywood script without the

941
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.880
<v Speaker 2>audience rolling their eyes and saying it felt entirely too convenient.

942
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.159
<v Speaker 1>The criminal mastermind goes into the bathroom and accidentally confesses

943
00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:52.559
<v Speaker 1>on tape. Come on, but it happened. The truth after

944
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:55.880
<v Speaker 1>decades of millions of dollars spent hiding, it just slipped

945
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:57.719
<v Speaker 1>out of his mouth while he was washing his hands.

946
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:00.960
<v Speaker 2>If we synthesize this entire journey today, we see a

947
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:05.039
<v Speaker 2>terrifying spectrum of human behavior. We started with the absurd,

948
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:09.119
<v Speaker 2>highly financed harassment of Tickled, where the czar was used

949
00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:09.760
<v Speaker 2>as a shield.

950
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:12.880
<v Speaker 1>We move through the digital ghosts and fatal manipulations and

951
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:15.159
<v Speaker 1>lover Stalker, Killer and Tall Hot Blonde.

952
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:19.480
<v Speaker 2>We examined the profound familial betrayals, symbiotic lies, and the

953
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.119
<v Speaker 2>malleability of memory. In the Impostor and Tell Me Who

954
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:22.480
<v Speaker 2>I Am?

955
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:27.199
<v Speaker 1>We confronted the dizzying epistemological vertigo of capturing the Freedmen's,

956
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:32.280
<v Speaker 1>the insidious grooming of a community abducted in plain sight, the.

957
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Total erasure of identity and girl in the Picture, the

958
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:39.079
<v Speaker 2>devastating systemic failures in Dear Zachary, and finally, the sheer

959
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:41.159
<v Speaker 2>unchecked arrogance of evil in the Jinks.

960
00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:44.039
<v Speaker 1>The single thread that ties all this human darkness together

961
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:47.079
<v Speaker 1>is deception. It is the tool that predators use to

962
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:50.199
<v Speaker 1>bend reality to their will, and it is the blindfold

963
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:53.480
<v Speaker 1>that we as a society sometimes willingly put on to

964
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:55.599
<v Speaker 1>avoid facing the monsters in our midst.

965
00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:58.559
<v Speaker 2>That is incredibly well said. It really reminds us that

966
00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:01.159
<v Speaker 2>looking into these dark stories isn't just about the macog

967
00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:03.159
<v Speaker 2>details or the thrill of the mystery.

968
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.920
<v Speaker 1>It is a mirror. It reflects our own vulnerabilities back

969
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:09.000
<v Speaker 1>at us. It shows us our capacity for denial, our desperate,

970
00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:12.159
<v Speaker 1>sometimes fatal need to trust the people around us, and

971
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:15.159
<v Speaker 1>our absolute fundamental need for the truth, no matter how

972
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:15.840
<v Speaker 1>much it hurts.

973
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:19.000
<v Speaker 2>We consume these stories not just to be entertained, but

974
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:21.360
<v Speaker 2>to learn how to protect ourselves in a world where

975
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:24.400
<v Speaker 2>the jigsaw puzzle doesn't always match the picture on the box.

976
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:27.280
<v Speaker 1>But before we go, I want to introduce one final

977
00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:31.280
<v Speaker 1>terrifying thought that builds on everything we've discussed, particularly the

978
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:34.920
<v Speaker 1>digital deception we saw in Tall, Hot Blonde and Lover

979
00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Stoker Killer.

980
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh. I think I know where you're going with this.

981
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:41.679
<v Speaker 1>If people were this easily deceived by bad physical disguises,

982
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:46.039
<v Speaker 1>dial up internet chat rooms, and spoofed text messages, what

983
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:47.000
<v Speaker 1>happens now?

984
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:50.320
<v Speaker 2>We are entering an era of deep fakes and highly

985
00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:51.159
<v Speaker 2>advanced AI.

986
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:54.079
<v Speaker 1>We are entering an era where you can literally clone

987
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:58.119
<v Speaker 1>someone's voice perfectly from a three second clip, or generate

988
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:01.199
<v Speaker 1>a photorealistic video of them doing something they never did.

989
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:04.079
<v Speaker 2>If are certainly collapse when looking at raw home video

990
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:06.199
<v Speaker 2>in the eighties, how on earth are we going to

991
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:09.320
<v Speaker 2>survive the next decade? Of deception when seeing and hearing

992
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:11.000
<v Speaker 2>is literally no longer believing.

993
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:15.360
<v Speaker 1>It is the ultimate evolution of epistemological vertigo. The tools

994
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:19.039
<v Speaker 1>of deception are becoming democratized and infinitely more sophisticated.

995
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.960
<v Speaker 2>The critical thinking and skepticism we've talked about today won't

996
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.280
<v Speaker 2>just be helpful traits in the future, they will be

997
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:27.159
<v Speaker 2>essential survival skills.

998
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:29.639
<v Speaker 1>So I want to turn this over to you, the listener.

999
00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:34.360
<v Speaker 1>Looking at all these twisted realities, these unbelievable fabrications of truth,

1000
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:38.400
<v Speaker 1>and looking ahead to the future of AI deception, which

1001
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:40.880
<v Speaker 1>of these concepts shook your core the most?

1002
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Do you think you would realistically spot the red flags

1003
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:46.880
<v Speaker 2>if a master manipulator walked into your life? Or are

1004
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.400
<v Speaker 2>we simply hardwired to believe the lie when the truth

1005
00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.199
<v Speaker 2>is just too terrifying to face.

1006
00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:55.559
<v Speaker 1>Think about the people you interact with online, the people

1007
00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:57.800
<v Speaker 1>you trust the most in your real life. What do

1008
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:00.920
<v Speaker 1>you really know about them? Leave a comment with your thoughts,

1009
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:03.239
<v Speaker 1>your theories, and where you stand on that very fine

1010
00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:06.920
<v Speaker 1>line between trusting someone and protecting yourself. Thank you so

1011
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:09.199
<v Speaker 1>much for joining us on this edition of Thrilling Threads.

1012
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:12.079
<v Speaker 1>Keep your eyes open and always keep questioning the narratives

1013
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:12.840
<v Speaker 1>around you,
