Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 2: What's up Bra?
Speaker 1: Not much? What's going on with you?
Speaker 2: Well, I have to I have to start off our
Speaker 2: conversation today with an accountability chat because because Justin listens
Speaker 2: to what were our podcasts the other day and he
Speaker 2: was very upset about the things that I said about
Speaker 2: our team, Darby County, the Mighty Rams. Okay, So first
Speaker 2: of all, he needed me to point out that we
Speaker 2: are not ship. We were ship.
Speaker 1: But I have a question, can I can I ask
Speaker 1: number one? I assume he's using the royal we to
Speaker 1: refer to himself with the team, which I do as
Speaker 1: well and will not accept any criticism for because if
Speaker 1: I've put as much of my mental uh wherewithal into
Speaker 1: these morons going to you know, they're gonna be we
Speaker 1: and that's all there is to it. And number two,
Speaker 1: are you included in we?
Speaker 2: Okay? So yes, this is something that I've been asked
Speaker 2: because apparently if I had said we are ship, then
Speaker 2: it would have been endearing, yes and also correct, and
Speaker 2: I believe the direct term was lovable, and so that's
Speaker 2: so I'm just you know, to be clear. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got sexually transmitted Darby County, and so you know,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm taking responsibility for that. As part of this,
Speaker 2: he did make me listen to the game while we
Speaker 2: walked to the pub yesterday and I give him updates
Speaker 2: on what was happening, because since he can only hear
Speaker 2: out of one ear, if he has the game in
Speaker 2: one ear, then that's it. So then I had to
Speaker 2: feel like and we won three one, so in your
Speaker 2: face west Brom and he's like, what's going on now?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, there's a lot of singing and
Speaker 2: he's like west Brom or Derby and I'm like Derby
Speaker 2: and it's like Dorby, whoa. He's like nice, Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2: That's good. So we have a new manager and since
Speaker 2: he's taken over, we are six and eight and we
Speaker 2: are not in the relegation zone anymore. Now are we
Speaker 2: right above the relegation zone?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, and are we not in it because of differential
Speaker 2: not points? Also yes, yes, that is correct. But you
Speaker 2: know these are these are.
Speaker 1: But you know that episode of The Simpsons where Marge
Speaker 1: starts selling pretzels and she goes to deliver pretzels to
Speaker 1: the elementary school and Principal Skinner's got like a broken
Speaker 1: hand and there's a gun sight on him, like as
Speaker 1: he says he he had a boking accident. I assume
Speaker 1: that's what's happening right now and I just can't see all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, had a wonderful time with my in laws
Speaker 2: in Darby. Thank you very much. No for the questions,
Speaker 2: you're honor go the Rams. Yes, I think I think
Speaker 2: I've made I think I've made my points clear.
Speaker 1: Uh you uh you know I can't. No, you can't
Speaker 1: go go go Rams, Go Rams.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, an official RAMS podcast. We're not
Speaker 2: so different.
Speaker 1: That's a man. I don't I'm trying to think you.
Speaker 2: Looks like I'm not sure if we're going this are.
Speaker 1: No, No, no, I don't know that I could. I
Speaker 1: don't know that I could get my wife to do
Speaker 1: that if I tried. Yeah, it's uh, you know sports fandom.
Speaker 1: I love it. People are like, oh, it's stupid. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean okay, correct and uh yeah, you know it
Speaker 1: is what it is. You can't you can't do anything
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I find it an amazing way
Speaker 2: to pass the time.
Speaker 1: It is. I think it is. I think you could,
Speaker 1: you know, you could do worse, but here you are. Well.
Speaker 1: You know, yesterday I woke up and I was like, huh, well,
Speaker 1: I'll do what I normally do and look at my
Speaker 1: phone in the bed, make myself mad before I even
Speaker 1: stand up. But yes yesterday, yesterday was a little different
Speaker 1: because as soon as I picked up my phone and
Speaker 1: opened up social media, I saw a post that said,
Speaker 1: let's see mm hmm Vatican delt mott des poops Francois
Speaker 1: ass out rt L Luitzburg, which is a news or
Speaker 1: poop in Luxembourg. And that is and this is a
Speaker 1: black and white picture of Pope Francis. That is how
Speaker 1: I found out that Francis died Des poops Francois asked
Speaker 1: out And just to be clear, it is poops p
Speaker 1: O O P S T Francoise, you know, like the
Speaker 1: French building of and ass A S S doubt d
Speaker 1: O U T. So Pope Francis died ass out.
Speaker 2: Do you know what? I would also die if someone
Speaker 2: put my ass in doubt, I'd be like, I just die.
Speaker 1: What what purpose does it save?
Speaker 2: Tell you Luxembourg? Should we should put a stop to it?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: I say that as one of the world's foremost Luxembourg historians.
Speaker 2: And by that I mean the dynasty, not the place. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, but I'm allowed to say it, right, I.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know anything about about Luxembourg. I did
Speaker 1: not that luxembourg Ish was its own language, although it
Speaker 1: shouldn't be. I thought it. I honestly thought it was
Speaker 1: a kind of like a dialect of French. But you know,
Speaker 1: here we are.
Speaker 2: We're gonna hit me with poops asked out. I don't,
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't tell if I like the language
Speaker 2: more or less as a result of this, but you know, yeah, oops,
Speaker 2: that's really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, Francis, rip rip to a one of
Speaker 1: the ones, to one of the ones, one of the
Speaker 1: guys to do things. He did some stuff which you'd
Speaker 1: done a lot more stuff. Rip to him. If you're
Speaker 1: looking for the episode on conclaves plural, come back next week,
Speaker 1: come back back. Yeah, you gotta give us a little
Speaker 1: more time to summarize a thousand years where they were, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what if we just they all stood
Speaker 1: around in a ring and punched each other until one
Speaker 1: of us, figure uh till the holiest one of us
Speaker 1: came out and they're like, yeah, that's fine, we'll change it.
Speaker 1: We'll change it.
Speaker 2: It'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Thirty years, it's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're looking for that next time, we'll
Speaker 1: be back. And that is conclaves plural, not the movie Conclave,
Speaker 1: which we should probably do something on but later. I
Speaker 1: don't have time for that right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at the Pope has died. I don't have
Speaker 2: time for all that. Like, it is very funny to
Speaker 2: work in one of the only careers I got air
Speaker 2: quotes careers there where this constituted an actual emergency for
Speaker 2: me yesterday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like we we we really should have done an
Speaker 1: emergency pod, like get on it. You know, we're all
Speaker 1: like coughing and ragged like all night. Uh talking to
Speaker 1: h talking to to my buddy he's a sinishal there.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, I was busy being in Darbyshire at
Speaker 2: the pub though, Oh yeah I was.
Speaker 1: I was. I was busy. I was busy cleaning the
Speaker 1: house and then reading, taking an inordinate amount of time
Speaker 1: to read up on old conclaves and being like wow,
Speaker 1: yeah that's great, Like you guys are just you were
Speaker 1: really all over the place, uh with this ship for
Speaker 1: like a thousand years. No no real uh no real process.
Speaker 1: And I find that uh endearing to say, yeah, uh okay,
Speaker 1: we'll talk. We'll talk more about all that next time
Speaker 1: we gotta do this. Uh. We'll also we're gonna have
Speaker 1: a du bonus episode on uh camera on the Cameron
Speaker 1: uh part three. We will be back with that on Friday.
Speaker 1: But yeah, all right here we unless you have any
Speaker 1: more uh uh Derby report statements that you want to
Speaker 1: make about Darby before before your handler shows up again.
Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, yeah, just as a good guy. I'm
Speaker 1: just kidding.
Speaker 2: I mean the statement I'd always like to make about
Speaker 2: Derby as some of the best pubs in the UK
Speaker 2: crack and crack in town.
Speaker 1: We go, yeah, there we go, go go Derby, go
Speaker 1: rams as always right, my heart is divided between FC
Speaker 1: Barcelona and Darby. Uh you know, Darby is my flaying,
Speaker 1: even though I barely know where it is in the UK.
Speaker 1: That's right. That's really bad with UK geography, which is
Speaker 1: weird because I can, like in my mind, I can
Speaker 1: picture like uh like you know, the Levant and all
Speaker 1: that and and you know, like uh and and South
Speaker 1: and Central America. But I'm like England, Hm, hmmm, it's London.
Speaker 1: London is in the North, right, like Wayne, No, I'm
Speaker 1: just kidding, come on, I'm not that Yeah, yeah, London
Speaker 1: is so mad forbid in the North. I don't know
Speaker 1: what accent that was, don't ask. All right, there we go,
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to We're Not So Different, a
Speaker 1: podcast where I can ever sett al on a British
Speaker 1: accent that I want to do. My name is Luke
Speaker 1: and I'm an amateur medievalist. As always, I'm joined by
Speaker 1: doctor Ellen Riannica, who is anything. But today we've got questions.
Speaker 1: Questions I used to h I used to have a teacher,
Speaker 1: she said, questions she she she was just like we
Speaker 1: already have any questions. It was like, why is there
Speaker 1: an R in there? You don't like you don't do that?
Speaker 1: It like it had to like I have no idea
Speaker 1: what it was, because she didn't really talk like that
Speaker 1: oddly or anything, because she w wasn't like Hurler or wherever,
Speaker 1: you know, just like she wouldn't look sweetish cheffing it
Speaker 1: up or anything. Anyway, I don't know why I did that, Folks.
Speaker 1: We promised we would do one of these mailback episodes
Speaker 1: every month. Until we caught up on patron questions. And
Speaker 1: wouldn't you know it, we haven't caught up yet. Uh
Speaker 1: So here is your April Q and A sesh as always,
Speaker 1: if you want to ask us questions like these that
Speaker 1: we will get to in the long, eventual span of time. Remember, folks,
Speaker 1: we work on geologic time and I'm just kidding, all right.
Speaker 1: If you want to do this, please sign up uhtreon
Speaker 1: dot COM's Last w NST pod five bucks a month.
Speaker 1: You get this, You get the bonus episodes, you don't
Speaker 1: have to listen to ads. You get access to our discord. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we like you more. We can uh you can harangue
Speaker 1: me about whatever you want. Yeah, anyway, you guys know that.
Speaker 1: Sign up. It's fun. You'll uh feel better about yourself
Speaker 1: risk question mark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your ass seem thicker.
Speaker 1: Yes, you will not be asked out. You will not
Speaker 1: be asked out. No, you will not be poops to
Speaker 1: ass out. We know that for a fact. Uh man,
Speaker 1: unless the next Pope listens to the show. If you
Speaker 1: are the next Pope or actually even in the running
Speaker 1: to be the next Pope, and you listen to the show,
Speaker 1: please email uh us. I want to talk I don't
Speaker 1: speak Latin or Italian or whatever language you speak unless
Speaker 1: it's English. But I'll figure out a way to make
Speaker 1: it work. God damn it. All right, you probably know
Speaker 1: English because that's kind.
Speaker 2: Of right in Latin. I'll write back.
Speaker 1: It'll be like, uh, Dominee and I through Google Translate
Speaker 1: and he's like, what the fuck is this? These aren't
Speaker 1: even real? This isn't Latin. Did you take this from
Speaker 1: like a Castlevania game? What is going on? Right?
Speaker 2: Back? In pig Latin?
Speaker 1: Yeah, hope, pop a or Pope. God damn it, I
Speaker 1: can't even do it, idiot. Oh, I can't even do
Speaker 1: pig Latin right, good God? All right, let's get started.
Speaker 1: Why trash historian says, can we do a segment on
Speaker 1: medieval reclamation of Greek and Roman myths? Like how Penthes
Speaker 1: I don't even know became a romantic chivalric Heroinah.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, there's rather a lot of this about unsurprisingly,
Speaker 2: I mean to be fair, like a lot of the
Speaker 2: time they just kind of keep going, yeah, with the
Speaker 2: like varying myths. You know, they're always telling those they've
Speaker 2: they've always got time for the Indian, They've always got
Speaker 2: time for the Odyssey, et cetera, et cetera. But you
Speaker 2: do see these kind of reappropriations of things, especially a
Speaker 2: lot of the time as art motifs, so in as
Speaker 2: stories about like the empty tomb or things like that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you'll have like Orpheus and Eurydice as of the
Speaker 2: picture in Bibles, which is which is you know, you
Speaker 2: know you see like Hercules wrestling the name in Lion
Speaker 2: and that's kind of like used as an allegory for
Speaker 2: strength or fortitude things like that. So yeah, they'll they'll
Speaker 2: kind of like chop and change things, or they will
Speaker 2: have people exist as you know, in their own world.
Speaker 2: So Pencil, she's she's like an Amazonian queen and let's
Speaker 2: so it's like this is an opportunity to write stories
Speaker 2: about women being being Amazon's you know it was which would
Speaker 2: like so you can do like kind of chival ricktails
Speaker 2: with them and and that's considered a very cool thing
Speaker 2: to do. And I mean, like all of it isn't surprising.
Speaker 2: You know, we still do this ship now, So you
Speaker 2: get plenty of references to classical literature and art just
Speaker 2: as they are, but you know, they'll chop it up.
Speaker 2: We'll move around with it, you know, like.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, if you if you, if you like
Speaker 1: consider yourselves like the inheritors of Rome or whatever, the
Speaker 1: Roman and Greek educational legacies, then I mean like yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're you're gonna throw uh, you're gonna throw
Speaker 1: these old characters in there, and you just they just
Speaker 1: get remade for you know, the present day with you know,
Speaker 1: whatever you need. It's like how you know, like when Batman,
Speaker 1: like Batman is you know not is not based on
Speaker 1: anything old, but like how bat when Batman came out,
Speaker 1: Batman was like a scientist, like he did science experiments,
Speaker 1: he did stuff like that, and he was also kind
Speaker 1: of a detective and he fought things. And now he's
Speaker 1: mostly just like a superhero who has much cool stuff,
Speaker 1: who who does detective work. He's not really like in
Speaker 1: he's not you know, they don't really focus on that
Speaker 1: as much anymore. And it's like how Superman has kind
Speaker 1: of been like a Jesus archetype for so long, even
Speaker 1: though he was created by Jewish uh creators who you know,
Speaker 1: created him with very much like him, you know, not
Speaker 1: you know, not being a Christian or anything in mind,
Speaker 1: but the story has just changed and they adapt to
Speaker 1: two different things into different uh, different aspects of society,
Speaker 1: you know, and we did the the Inferno. Dante was
Speaker 1: like all over that ship. He's just slamming things together.
Speaker 1: And they have enough cognitive dissonance or it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: enough to them that they could just be like, yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: Jesus got killed by the Romans, but then the Romans
Speaker 1: became Christians, so that's okay, you know, and if you
Speaker 1: if you can, if you can leap past that, if
Speaker 1: you can leap past the Roman Empire having regardless of that,
Speaker 1: they thought that that the Jews did it. He was killed,
Speaker 1: which isn't correct, but he was killed by the Roman Empire.
Speaker 1: The Roman emperor signed off on it. Herod was a
Speaker 1: Roman uh uh politician, excuse me, and uh, they signed
Speaker 1: off on it. If you can get past that, you
Speaker 1: can just get you know, you can say, yeah, you
Speaker 1: can have h Ermie, you can have Ermis in there, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, being like a Robin Hood figure. You can
Speaker 1: have you know, you can have you can have anything
Speaker 1: you want because once once you can overcome that hurdle
Speaker 1: in your mind of being like, yes, they did this
Speaker 1: bad thing, but they atoned for it, and then they
Speaker 1: made society better and now we're living in it. And
Speaker 1: look how you know, we're trying to recreate them and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And if you can get over them
Speaker 1: killing Christ, I don't really think the rest of it
Speaker 1: is that big of a hurdle, although it is. It
Speaker 1: is interesting to see how they got there, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're just like they just dropped the
Speaker 1: pagan aspects along the way, and they're like, yeah, Zeus
Speaker 1: was actually an angel. He was God's buddy.
Speaker 2: They hung out chat for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, White Treasure story. And thank you very much
Speaker 1: for the question. Next we got one from a dog
Speaker 1: god who says, was there a big gap in terms
Speaker 1: of the types of inner I'm sorry, a big class
Speaker 1: gap in terms of the types of entertainment that people enjoyed.
Speaker 1: For example, when a musician at court have to specifically
Speaker 1: trained to learn songs and instruments that were popular with
Speaker 1: the nobility, or would they be playing basically the same
Speaker 1: stuff as they would at a market fair or peasant wedding.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and the answer is most people
Speaker 2: do both, but you probably are going to offer slightly
Speaker 2: different things. Like it's going to be bodier out in
Speaker 2: the market that. Now, this isn't to say that they
Speaker 2: won't also do body for a noble audience. If they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: do some pableau, they'll be like okay, yep, you know,
Speaker 2: and then they're in and they'll absolutely go for it.
Speaker 2: But as a general rule from the biggest differentiation in
Speaker 2: terms of entertainment is just going to be how much
Speaker 2: you get. So you get way more when you're at court,
Speaker 2: like you can get things constantly, like you'll just have
Speaker 2: a musician on hand, like in the same way that
Speaker 2: we'll put music on you know, they'll have musicians follow
Speaker 2: them around and play things and that and that sort
Speaker 2: of deal, which is which is pretty sweet. So yeah,
Speaker 2: not not a huge difference. You will probably have to
Speaker 2: stay on top of new songs and new ballads if
Speaker 2: things are kind of coming through if you're doing things
Speaker 2: for a courtly audience, so you're specifically going to have
Speaker 2: to stay up on whatever new things are coming out,
Speaker 2: and you're going to need a stable of old classics,
Speaker 2: whereas you know, you can just be like, uh, there
Speaker 2: once was a man from Nantucket.
Speaker 1: Like to put his dick in a but yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: uh huh uh huh oh. Then well, following up on that,
Speaker 1: was there I mean, I know this is a modern thing,
Speaker 1: but like, was there like a difference between like in
Speaker 1: cities or places where there was more like entertainment that
Speaker 1: you would go to. Was there a class difference? Like
Speaker 1: how there used to be like I'm going to the
Speaker 1: opera because I'm fancy, and the clibs would be like,
Speaker 1: I'm going down to the move to the one dollar cinema.
Speaker 1: Was there like any of that, or was everybody like
Speaker 1: I'm going to the bear fights? Fuck it?
Speaker 2: I mean, so we got the bear Fights? Is a
Speaker 2: lot more like everybody, interestingly, I mean theater is a
Speaker 2: little more low class.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, as like as as.
Speaker 2: A general rule of thumb, theater is like, well you wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Go there, Yeah, I guess if I have to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's like it's like saying that you're going,
Speaker 2: You're going like I was at the pornography store, essentially.
Speaker 1: I was at the theater.
Speaker 2: I was watching the theater exactly, so you know, And
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, they will occasionally have plays, and
Speaker 2: certainly the mystery plays are an exception to this as well,
Speaker 2: but you you get less theater more particularly this of
Speaker 2: course changes in the early modern period and you get
Speaker 2: more and more theater happening at court as a result.
Speaker 2: But there it'ts a lot more like sing me a
Speaker 2: song you there, boy, you know kind of a deal court?
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh man, Yeah, I definitely don't have anything to
Speaker 1: add to that because I don't know anything about that,
Speaker 1: but dog got Thank you very much for the question.
Speaker 1: Although now I wonder how you know, like in the
Speaker 1: Old West, you shoot at a guy's feet and like dance,
Speaker 1: dance like you know, they like aiming the crossbow at
Speaker 1: the guy's feet like dance and they have to put
Speaker 1: it in and wind it and cock it and be
Speaker 1: like okay, now dance again. You know. Anyway, that's a
Speaker 1: dumb joke that just ran through my head. All right, uh,
Speaker 1: I think the only way eleanor you are looking at
Speaker 1: this list, yeah, do you don't say them? But do
Speaker 1: you know what most of these are? How they're said? Okay?
Speaker 2: But now it's also like in my head and I'm like, oh, like,
Speaker 2: because so this is the thing that so English people
Speaker 2: will do this to me. Me They'll just be like
Speaker 2: say this like I got I got told one.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: I was visiting my mates in the Midlands this weekend.
Speaker 2: So I was visiting my friends in Leamington and we
Speaker 2: were walking down the street that I would say like
Speaker 2: bo Champs Street and I, you know, I've made some
Speaker 2: crack about him being one handsome champ or something like that,
Speaker 2: and he's like, do you want to hear a really
Speaker 2: annoying thing about how you pronounce that? And I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I guess I do. These motherfuckers just say beach them
Speaker 2: beacham beau champ b e a U c h a
Speaker 2: m P beacham beacham. I never drives It drives me insane.
Speaker 1: Ever ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever want to hear
Speaker 1: an English person talk about how I pronounce words or
Speaker 1: anything else. I never want to hear it. You have
Speaker 1: nothing to stand on. That is fucking insane. And yes,
Speaker 1: I know where I'm from and I know how people
Speaker 1: pronounce things insane the year. It's fine, We're all kind
Speaker 1: of insane. English is a stupid language anyway, half German
Speaker 1: bullshit anyway. Uh So, I guess the only way to
Speaker 1: do this is uh. The questions from Ali Cantry says,
Speaker 1: can we have a segment where Luke goes through a
Speaker 1: list of English towns and tries to pronounce them as
Speaker 1: best he can. Uh, so I have about fourteen towns.
Speaker 1: There was a much longer list, but I had to
Speaker 1: pare it down, mostly because God, this can't be that
Speaker 1: fun for everyone for that long. Yeah, and you know what,
Speaker 1: if you want to hear me pronounce more, maybe we'll
Speaker 1: do that at some point. But you know what, Yeah, so.
Speaker 2: I guess I think that you're gonna have to spell
Speaker 2: it and then say it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I think. All right, Okay, w O
Speaker 1: L F R D I S w O R T
Speaker 1: H Y and I will list all of these in
Speaker 1: the show notes. Please do not look at your phone
Speaker 1: while you're driving, for the love of God. Please, I'm
Speaker 1: being completely serious. Please do not. It's not worth it.
Speaker 1: I'm going with Wolfersley.
Speaker 2: It's a Woolsury, Woolsary.
Speaker 1: My wife is from a town, a small town, and
Speaker 1: uh they pronounced the town weird. But there's a town
Speaker 1: near it called It's spelled like Omega, like the Alpha
Speaker 1: and Omega, but everyone there calls it Omiga. And I've
Speaker 1: always thought that was hilarious because Omiga like how could
Speaker 1: you fuck that up? I need you to understand that
Speaker 1: is miles better than that is miles better. Uh fuck?
Speaker 1: All right? Next one, g O O n h I
Speaker 1: L L Y. I'm going with goon Hilly because why not?
Speaker 2: It is close, It's goon highly.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, yeah, okay, I could I can see.
Speaker 2: I still think it's wrong. I think it should just
Speaker 2: be gooon Hilly, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I mean I do too. I think I
Speaker 1: think it should be but uh you know, I I
Speaker 1: can at least see how you could to get there theoretically,
Speaker 1: like over the years, and like this, I could see it.
Speaker 1: The other one Wolford's worthy, which is what I'm calling it.
Speaker 1: How dare you people?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Not right?
Speaker 1: Okay. Next one, we got and I love this. We
Speaker 1: got W E S T W A R D space
Speaker 1: h O exclamation point. I was told that the word
Speaker 1: that this town name does have the exclamation point in it,
Speaker 1: which I do think it does. Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1: Uh mhm was word ha.
Speaker 2: So this is a really tricky one for me because
Speaker 2: I don't I don't actually know. Uh, Like I would
Speaker 2: just say Westward ho and probably I'd be wrong. But
Speaker 2: like I even tried to look this one up and
Speaker 2: and it's it is really hard to find.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: So I'm just saying westward ha ho. I guess somebody
Speaker 2: somebody write us in until us how to pronounce. Actually,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna put my
Speaker 2: head out the door and ask Justin go for it.
Speaker 1: Do I will wait until she gets back. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I'm singing it.
Speaker 2: Like, okay, So Justin says that it is just westward Ho,
Speaker 2: and he says, at least that is how important. British
Speaker 2: band Half Man, Half Biscuit pronounce it in their song
Speaker 2: where they say westward Ho, what.
Speaker 1: A let down, let's go. I'll go with that. I
Speaker 1: assume they're the English version of the Old Steady where
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I love the whole Steady. I've never
Speaker 1: heard of that band. I'm sure they're great, though, but yeah,
Speaker 1: Westward Ho cool. In Next one, p O l Z
Speaker 1: E A T H.
Speaker 2: Pulls it pulls you got it pulls?
Speaker 1: Nice? Yeah? Okay, yeah, I can see how I can
Speaker 1: see how you get there from that. For there, that's
Speaker 1: cool all right? Next week, got t R E D
Speaker 1: I N N I C K H treadnick uh treaded nick.
Speaker 2: I have no I mean, yeah, I think I I
Speaker 2: think that it is like uh treadnick or trunnick or
Speaker 2: something like that. Uh, but I could be wrong. Corner
Speaker 2: people are gonna kind of hunt my ass.
Speaker 1: Down there if you If you are not in England,
Speaker 1: this segment's probably weird to you. If you are in England,
Speaker 1: this is probably one of the funniest things you ever heard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: next week got a L N W I c K.
Speaker 1: I'm going with on book.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: So this is a truly fucked up one and it's
Speaker 2: a nook or like or like annak I guess annak.
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing an yeah yeah, oh man, that's that's amazing.
Speaker 1: All right. Now we got one with one of my
Speaker 1: favorite English traditions. It's the Minster in the name. So
Speaker 1: we got l e O m I N s t
Speaker 1: e R. And knowing the English, I know that this
Speaker 1: is always pronounced real fucked up. Yeah, I'm going with
Speaker 1: low muster.
Speaker 2: It's Lemster.
Speaker 1: You know, I honestly should I should have guessed that
Speaker 1: that's my own fault. I really should, you know.
Speaker 2: This is the only reason I know this is because
Speaker 2: this is one that they use to torture you with. Okay,
Speaker 2: so it's like one of the it's one of the
Speaker 2: classic Lemster Yeah, okay, okay, classic one, classic one to
Speaker 2: torture Americans with. Yeah. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1: We got F R O M E and looks like
Speaker 1: from I'm going with Frome.
Speaker 2: It's froom. Uh yeah, Rome.
Speaker 1: It is f in the word room, so I would
Speaker 1: just call it from like foam, but I don't whatever.
Speaker 2: That's how it's sucking spelled for.
Speaker 1: Italian from okay or froom I'm sorry, froom like it
Speaker 1: has a U with an um lot Okay, delightful, all right.
Speaker 1: Next week got W Y M O N D H
Speaker 1: A M and I'm going with Windom.
Speaker 2: Got it, Yeah it's Windom. It's Windom.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Next week got g O D M A N
Speaker 1: C H E S T E R. So it breeds
Speaker 1: like god Manchester, but there's no fucking way it's said
Speaker 1: like that. So I'm going with Gonster.
Speaker 2: Well that would be good and actually that makes more sense.
Speaker 2: But what I mean makes sense like in the British,
Speaker 2: but it's a godmun Chester like god mund Chester, gobin Chester.
Speaker 1: I find it interesting when they drop the e R
Speaker 1: and when they don't. I really do. Like I felt
Speaker 1: like when when the e R gets dropped on something
Speaker 1: and it becomes an A or like a like yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is one of my favorite ones coming out.
Speaker 1: We got m E O P H A M. I'm
Speaker 1: going with Mopham.
Speaker 2: It's Mephm.
Speaker 1: Okay, I can see Okay, I like that. I like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but uh I can see Mepham. That makes sense, uh
Speaker 1: Mapam Mepham. Yeah, okay, mep them cool. Uh. Next week
Speaker 1: got w E S t O N space s U
Speaker 1: p e R dash m A r E. We got
Speaker 1: another punctuation mark in here. We love to see it, folks.
Speaker 1: I'm going with Western Superman. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what's super Yeah, like there's not nice. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're just kind of fucking with you on this one.
Speaker 1: Nice. There we go, Thanks guys, I appreciate that. Next
Speaker 1: week got y E O v I L. I'm going
Speaker 1: with Jovial.
Speaker 2: You're correct now. I saw a popular brand of yogurt
Speaker 2: yo nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you can't fool me. And you know, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know Joval. I have no idea what
Speaker 1: that is. I hope we have h O N I
Speaker 1: t o n I'm going with for any town I
Speaker 1: don't honiton, I don't know. It's yeah, there we go, Hontan.
Speaker 1: All right, there we go. That one's been sitting there
Speaker 1: for a while and I decided to finally do it.
Speaker 1: I will happily read uh town names in whatever place
Speaker 1: you want me to, provided you uh our patron uh
Speaker 1: and you ask. But you know, the long the town
Speaker 1: names and the further they get from English, the worst
Speaker 1: the segment is. For everybody else spelling like German town names,
Speaker 1: It's like thirty letters long, like oh, this is fantastic, Ollie,
Speaker 1: and the other like ten people I can't remember in
Speaker 1: the discord who contributed to this, and thank you very much.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I can't remember all of you right now.
Speaker 1: Next we got one from dog spotter. I've seen people
Speaker 1: propose that medieval people walked with a different gait, more
Speaker 1: on their toes and a gate. If you don't know,
Speaker 1: is just the way of your stride of walking, basically
Speaker 1: how you walk? Are these people full of boloney? Do
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 2: I really like, I was trying to look up where
Speaker 2: this might come from. It I just genuinely don't know.
Speaker 1: I need never heard this, but.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I guess I was thinking that kind
Speaker 2: of like sometimes when you see medieval art, people are
Speaker 2: a little bit more on their toes, but it's like
Speaker 2: oftentimes they're a little bit more on their toes because
Speaker 2: they're trying to show you a full foot or like
Speaker 2: you know there, or they're dancing, yeah, for example, or
Speaker 2: like they're kind of they're trying to like emphasize footwear
Speaker 2: a little bit. So it would kind of be like
Speaker 2: pretending that porn was the medieval period and be like, wow,
Speaker 2: people sure did fuck in ways where you saw their
Speaker 2: genitals all the time, and it's like, well, it's just art,
Speaker 2: you know, it's not really it's not really like showing
Speaker 2: you what's actually happening in real life. I mean, I
Speaker 2: guess it could theoretically be pausive, you know, in that
Speaker 2: footwear is so incredibly different at the time, but I mean,
Speaker 2: most people are wearing clogs in Northern Europe, so I
Speaker 2: just don't know why walking on your toes would be
Speaker 2: helpful in a clog based situation.
Speaker 1: So I don't, Yeah, I don't know, Like maybe it's
Speaker 1: a little different now because we run a lot, like
Speaker 1: just running as like a practice a lot more than
Speaker 1: they did. They obviously exercised and ran a certain degree,
Speaker 1: but like I mean, you know, like little kids in
Speaker 1: you know, like elementary school like pe, they you know, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna you know, we're gonna run, and I mean
Speaker 1: they were they literally were not doing that back then.
Speaker 1: So I mean maybe it's something with that because your
Speaker 1: foot falls a little different as you run. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know who you heard that from,
Speaker 1: dog spotter, Uh, but if you remember and would like
Speaker 1: to fill us in, uh, I'd love to hear more
Speaker 1: so we can at least, yeah, we can at least
Speaker 1: find out, uh you know, maybe they're maybe maybe they do.
Speaker 1: Maybe we walk slightly different now for some reason, and
Speaker 1: that would be cool to find out too. Either way,
Speaker 1: I seriously doubt they were walking like they were wearing
Speaker 1: high heels at all times, uh, because, uh, yeah, that
Speaker 1: would be stupid. We evolve feet like this for a reason,
Speaker 1: and we push off from our heels. That's literally one
Speaker 1: of the evolutionary differences we have from apes. Sorry anyway, Uh,
Speaker 1: Dogs Potter, thank you for the question. Next, we have
Speaker 1: Loaf who says here in California, we suffer annual wildfire
Speaker 1: even in winter, and I'm reminded of these most recent
Speaker 1: and horrific fires in Los Angeles that before climate change
Speaker 1: exacerbated the issue, the problems started with the outlawing of
Speaker 1: native land management practices of setting fire to grasslands in
Speaker 1: order for fire following calorie dense plants to emerge. This
Speaker 1: leads me to wonder what pre industrial land management was
Speaker 1: like in the medieval period. Was this mostly the purview
Speaker 1: of landlords or were there practices that people that actually
Speaker 1: lived on the land were able to maintain. How did
Speaker 1: enclosure affect this and do we still use any of
Speaker 1: these land management techniques today? Excuse me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a lot of land management going on,
Speaker 2: especially when it comes to forestry, because what is genuinely happening,
Speaker 2: genuinely generally happening all the time is a lot of
Speaker 2: work in terms of copping, so you know, keeping trees
Speaker 2: at certain levels so that they can be harvested more
Speaker 2: readily for firewood, because you need absolutely tons of fire
Speaker 2: would so you're always compassing things and kind of keeping
Speaker 2: an eye on the trees, and that usually also involves
Speaker 2: the removal of underbrush in order to get to things.
Speaker 2: And then when we're talking about forestry and things like that,
Speaker 2: there's a fair amount of land management as well. When
Speaker 2: it comes to parkland that the nobility used for hunting
Speaker 2: because they want the underbrush removed so that they can
Speaker 2: gallop horses around and chase deer and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: So that's usually an achieved through controlled burns, which is
Speaker 2: super common, but there is also a fair amount of
Speaker 2: just running pigs through the woods and they will clean
Speaker 2: that undergrowth ride up for you. You know, you can run,
Speaker 2: you can run goats through, you can run pigs through,
Speaker 2: and they'll just be like yeah, hell yeah, Bram, I'm
Speaker 2: eating all of these things, right. But in particular, you
Speaker 2: do see woodlands really managed for the purposes of sport,
Speaker 2: which have these kind of knock on effects. And so
Speaker 2: it was interesting and of note when Europeans arrived in
Speaker 2: the Americas, uh well and in particular in North America,
Speaker 2: and they were really impressed because they were like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: because they were like, I just I don't see any
Speaker 2: Native people, like they're not like people to be. They're like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, it's like parkland here. Yeah, all this wilderness
Speaker 2: is like parkland. It's like yeah, it's because it's being
Speaker 2: fucking managed to idiots, like you know, it's odd.
Speaker 1: As they Yeah, they used yeah fire management to uh,
Speaker 1: to deal with their to deal with the forests and everything.
Speaker 1: I have seen it and heard it said that Europeans
Speaker 1: were very scared of fire and that fire management techniques
Speaker 1: really freaked them out, which is why they weren't used
Speaker 1: a lot as much in Western society for a while
Speaker 1: until later, because they were like, no, that's the native
Speaker 1: way of doing it. We're going to do this other thing.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, yeah, the native people did it
Speaker 1: because it worked, and you guys did. But I don't
Speaker 1: remember exactly where I heard that, so you know that
Speaker 1: I made.
Speaker 2: Well, that is the thing because with enclosure, you see, uh,
Speaker 2: these processes kind of die out right because it's like
Speaker 2: you can't you can't like CorV anybody to come manage
Speaker 2: your your forest for you and do all these things.
Speaker 2: So these particular practices kind of fade out. And then
Speaker 2: a couple hundred years later, when you come into contact
Speaker 2: with other peoples and you want a differentiation point in
Speaker 2: order to dehumanize them, then you go, oh, we were
Speaker 2: never doing it.
Speaker 1: Let shut the fuck up. Yeah, you know, so, uh
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, they they definitely practice their own land
Speaker 1: management there, but uh you know, maybe we're also scared
Speaker 1: of fire. Who knows. Yeah anyway, uh yeah, love, thank
Speaker 1: you very much for the question, and uh sorry about
Speaker 1: those fires. They are terrifying. Yeah, ann annan or a
Speaker 1: nun asked. I was listening to the One Hundred Years
Speaker 1: War series and I got a question about politics. Medieval
Speaker 1: politics seem to be characterized by a significant amount of
Speaker 1: fluidity and pragmatism e g. Edward siding with the Montforts,
Speaker 1: even though their claim came from the male line and
Speaker 1: Edwards from the female line. Are there any trends or
Speaker 1: differences in how politics were done which might stand out
Speaker 1: from different parts of such a long period, or even
Speaker 1: from different regions.
Speaker 2: I mean, the English are basket cases, so like drop
Speaker 2: that down right, I mean, like, as a general rule
Speaker 2: of thumb, you're always going to have what you can
Speaker 2: kind of say across Europe is the nobility and the
Speaker 2: royalty don't really get along, but they're always kind of
Speaker 2: getting in and out of each other's beds, and varying
Speaker 2: alliances are being made, and that, you know, simply is
Speaker 2: the case. Kind of across Europe, but then you see
Speaker 2: different things at different times. So in particular England is
Speaker 2: a basket case because you have all these weird claims
Speaker 2: that come up in the kind of like post Norman world,
Speaker 2: you know, like when you get to the anarchy. For example,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I couldn't believe but that I'm I
Speaker 2: was with friend of the show on Friday and we
Speaker 2: went to go visit a castle because we're really cool,
Speaker 2: and here we are at war Castle and it was
Speaker 2: the person who had kind of expanded it in the
Speaker 2: thirteenth century was, in my opinion, sorry, twelfth century, was
Speaker 2: in my opinion, on the wrong side of the anarchy
Speaker 2: and was like team Stephen. And I was like, hm,
Speaker 2: wrong side though, and my mate Simon was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I think Stephen was right, and I was like,
Speaker 2: fucking excuse me. And I was like I didn't know
Speaker 2: we made you anymore. And he's like too slow, too slow,
Speaker 2: should have got there first, and I was like a
Speaker 2: good fucking god. And so then we had a slap
Speaker 2: fight to buy it and that was fun. But you know,
Speaker 2: but my point is bringing up the anarchy and the
Speaker 2: fact that Simon is drained is that like things like
Speaker 2: this kind of happened all the time in England, and
Speaker 2: then like by the time you get to like, for example,
Speaker 2: Edward the second and he's pissed off all the nobles
Speaker 2: because he's just giving the dispensers as much money as
Speaker 2: they want, you know, or whatever, and you remove him
Speaker 2: from the throne. Then everyone goes, oh, it's possible to
Speaker 2: remove kings from the throne. It's really easily done, actually,
Speaker 2: And that's kind of how you end up getting the
Speaker 2: wars with the Roses and things like that. So England
Speaker 2: is a little bit more wild in terms of what's
Speaker 2: going on up here. You certainly see in Spain really
Speaker 2: loose affiliations that are incredibly pragmatic, just just as you say,
Speaker 2: where you don't really know who's going to side with
Speaker 2: who at any given time, and it's just pragmatic. It's
Speaker 2: how am I going to get money? There really isn't
Speaker 2: very much of anything to keep Christians onside with Christians,
Speaker 2: Muslims on sides with Muslims. It's just basically like how
Speaker 2: low are my tax is going to be? How much
Speaker 2: land can I be given? And we certainly see things
Speaker 2: like this with like El seed for example, Right, we
Speaker 2: can look sort of to Italy and I mean a
Speaker 2: similarly basket cases, right, like like what is going on?
Speaker 1: Muslim? Is it Greek? Is it Italian? Is it Latin?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: Are you wealth? Are you a ghibbiling? Like what's going on?
Speaker 1: What do we go?
Speaker 2: They're just fighting with each other constantly, And it's a
Speaker 2: lot more kind of Romeo and Julietish where there's you know,
Speaker 2: constant noble factions flat fighting back.
Speaker 1: The Vendetta system is real, folks. That was the real thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, they kill each.
Speaker 1: Other over dumb bullshit that somebody's brother's cousin did.
Speaker 2: So I guess they're a little bit less pragmatic, and
Speaker 2: I guess they are a little bit more they're a
Speaker 2: little bit more grudge motivated. So shout out to them
Speaker 2: as a general rule within the Holy Roman Empire Italians aside,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like which side are you on in
Speaker 2: terms of papal or and that is always going to
Speaker 2: just depend on what advantage you see, Well, who's the
Speaker 2: pope at the time. Where's the pope at the time,
Speaker 2: you know, big question, because the pope's being an avenel
Speaker 2: can really change your opinion on where certain things go.
Speaker 2: And you know, similarly, this has a lot to do
Speaker 2: with kind of taxation and then those kind of things.
Speaker 2: So you know, surprise like Germans and checks being quite
Speaker 2: pragmatic actually just being like this has got a money gast,
Speaker 2: you know, right kind of a deal. So yeah, it
Speaker 2: all really depends on where you are. But yeah, certainly,
Speaker 2: you know, ideas of like chivalry or oaths and all
Speaker 2: this stuff. It's like it's a lot more exists in
Speaker 2: our heads than actually exists in any in any kind
Speaker 2: of form in the Middle Ages. The closest you really
Speaker 2: do see is just like Italians wild'n out and doing
Speaker 2: a grudge match. But that's not really chivalry, is that.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh yeah, you gotta when you have to
Speaker 3: like balance, you have to balance all these factors and
Speaker 3: you have to like, you know, am I going to
Speaker 3: marry off relative?
Speaker 1: I'm not going to marry off you know someone else?
Speaker 1: How How does my How does my inheritance pass? Because
Speaker 1: you know, states have different inheritance laws now, but it's
Speaker 1: pretty much like if you got a will and you
Speaker 1: know like it's going you know, it's either going intestate
Speaker 1: to your family, or it's going to the people in
Speaker 1: the will, or you make it some other revision, but like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Germany didn't for you know a long time.
Speaker 1: Germany was like, yeah, we just divided up. However, we
Speaker 1: kind of want between all of our kids instead of
Speaker 1: giving it to the oldest, which was really different than
Speaker 1: basically all of Western Europe. And they were like yeah, cool,
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just you know, you get you get
Speaker 1: different stuff like that. It's it's all it's all a rich,
Speaker 1: a rich uh a rich tapestry of the Middle Ages
Speaker 1: where you're just like there's no there's really no homogeneity
Speaker 1: to this. Everything is just like we got a king,
Speaker 1: but he kind of has power. We got a king
Speaker 1: and he has absolute power. We got a king and
Speaker 1: he's obedient to the church. We got an emperor and
Speaker 1: he's you know, emperor over a city. You know, like whatever, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, yeah, the despotite of And then thank you
Speaker 1: for the question. Next we got one from MG in
Speaker 1: your face. What's the medieval equivalent of a stupid business
Speaker 1: to business tech conference trying to make itself seem more
Speaker 1: appealing by getting a celebrity in a completely unrelated field
Speaker 1: such as a major actor to do a keynote.
Speaker 2: So I love this one, and it's like this one
Speaker 2: is kind of like I guess it's it's kind of
Speaker 2: bringing in outside popular preachers for church stuff. Right, So
Speaker 2: you go, so, yah, really boring. Something like the archbishop
Speaker 2: makes you all come uh to, you know, have a
Speaker 2: talking to about how you're all bad, and you go
Speaker 2: get a preacher who is like, yeah, like the fuck
Speaker 2: the hierarchy of the church or whatever, and we're all
Speaker 2: reforming and blah blah blah. You know, like so you'll
Speaker 2: go get in like superstars like that to give like
Speaker 2: the equivalent of the keynote address, and then the bishop
Speaker 2: it's like, and I'm really fucking disappointed in you people.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like when the teacher comes back and
Speaker 1: the substitute teacher left a note and they're just looking down,
Speaker 1: Like in all my years of teaching, I've never had
Speaker 1: a note like this. He's like, God, damn it, man,
Speaker 1: you shut up. You say this stitute comes by.
Speaker 2: This is going down on your permanent record. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. They had preachers. They love preachers, They fucking
Speaker 1: loved them. Uh, maybe a bard, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: would nowadays you'd be like, I just don't want to
Speaker 1: go to this business to business conference. I'm going to
Speaker 1: feign being sick. But that had to make a little
Speaker 1: more effort at it, because the king would be like, no,
Speaker 1: come here or else, and you're like, oh hmm, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: Well that's not great. Yeah yeah, So honestly, good for them.
Speaker 1: They didn't have to put up with that bullshit as
Speaker 1: much as we do. Awful, awful, MG in your face.
Speaker 1: Thank you for the question. Got a couple more first
Speaker 1: from jos the Texan. I was wondering what funeral traditions
Speaker 1: were like for ordinary people in the Middle Ages. I
Speaker 1: know in the US and other Western countries we are
Speaker 1: very disconnected from death and preparation of our loved ones
Speaker 1: for burial, and this has and this hasn't been the
Speaker 1: case for most of human history. What were rituals surrounding
Speaker 1: a funeral? Today, most Catholic funerals in the US, at
Speaker 1: least once if I have experienced, have a rosary in
Speaker 1: the evening three to five days after death and a
Speaker 1: funeral mass the next morning.
Speaker 2: So one of the big things that changes is that
Speaker 2: you try to get buried a lot sooner in the
Speaker 2: Middle Ages, because we're not we're not embalming folks out here.
Speaker 2: So you're trying, you're kind of like trying to get
Speaker 2: this done and dusted. What might happen if you want
Speaker 2: that body to travel, Like if you are like suspiciently
Speaker 2: important and you die on a battlefield, or say you're
Speaker 2: someone like eleanor Castile and they want your body down
Speaker 2: in London, you'll generally be eviscerated, and then those the
Speaker 2: viscera can be either buried in varying places like you know,
Speaker 2: we see this with Richard lionheart right where like his
Speaker 2: heart's in one place and his bodies in another of
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, or you know, they might just
Speaker 2: bury the viscera where they are in a church and
Speaker 2: then take the rest of the body. But as a
Speaker 2: general rule of thumb, when someone dies, you're like trying
Speaker 2: to get them like, let's go. We don't have a
Speaker 2: whole lot of time to waste here because they are
Speaker 2: concerns about contingen and keeping the bodies around, So you
Speaker 2: are probably going to try to move pretty fast. There
Speaker 2: may be like some looking at the body as it
Speaker 2: lies in state, but you are going to be wanting
Speaker 2: within the next few days to get this going. You know.
Speaker 2: Rosary reading certainly does exist, you know, it's it increases
Speaker 2: in popularity over the medieval period and has kind of
Speaker 2: like a rise along with Marian cults. So I mean
Speaker 2: earlier you're not going to see that, not at all.
Speaker 2: But they'll just be like offices for the dead usually,
Speaker 2: and then you'll have a funeral mass, and then if
Speaker 2: you have enough money, you will then also bequeath a
Speaker 2: certain amounts to the church to continuously say masses for
Speaker 2: the soul of the dead, which you may or may
Speaker 2: not attend, but that's kind of like shoring up to
Speaker 2: make sure they don't go to Hell. So yeah, yeah, I'll.
Speaker 1: Still say masses for the dead. Yeah, I'll say prayers
Speaker 1: for the dead.
Speaker 2: Like that, absolutely, Like it's something that you can request
Speaker 2: and it's something that they'll do, you know. It's uh
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, so yeah, especially if you're like kicking some
Speaker 2: money in.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: That's why all those side altars are in churches. When
Speaker 2: you go into a church and they are like the
Speaker 2: other side altars, it's like people have kicked in money
Speaker 2: to have their little masses and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Yeah, that's cool. Uh, Josh, thank you very
Speaker 1: much for the question. Last week. Lastly we got one
Speaker 1: from Gaffzie, who says, in previous episodes, you'll have made
Speaker 1: the point that the Protestant Reformation wasn't inevitable, that the
Speaker 1: church had internally reformed multiple times in the past on
Speaker 1: its own. In an alternate history where the Church did
Speaker 1: actually step away from the brink and manage to fix
Speaker 1: some or all of the issues that Protestant that Protestants raised,
Speaker 1: what would this reform have looked like. Will we just
Speaker 1: have the Council of Trent, but done a few decades
Speaker 1: earlier or without the specific circumstance of the Reformation, Would
Speaker 1: the necessary medicine have been something entirely different? Would there
Speaker 1: have been a tempt to deal with the political elements
Speaker 1: of habsburg domination of the continent that helped spur the
Speaker 1: princess to suport Luther in the first place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a great question, because on the
Speaker 2: one hand, you know, there is the fact that this
Speaker 2: is kind of like a cultural issue that we consistently
Speaker 2: see come out in reforming impulses in the church, right,
Speaker 2: But there are of course also these political issues like
Speaker 2: the fucking have spurks and their goddamn chins, right, you know,
Speaker 2: like getting in here all over the place. I think
Speaker 2: a necessary intervention that would have also had to happen
Speaker 2: at this particular time in order to spur this would
Speaker 2: have been like knocking this Renaissance shit the fuck off. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that would have had to be and that's cultural, right,
Speaker 2: So it's an interesting one, Like that's not like because
Speaker 2: the issue with indulgences, you know, like you never saw
Speaker 2: indulgences like that before and it was literally just you know,
Speaker 2: they want a bigger house, right, and so like herbing
Speaker 2: that particular impulse, well that that also has knock on
Speaker 2: effects for how the Italian economy is working at the time,
Speaker 2: and can you pull back on that. I think there's
Speaker 2: an argument to be made that if the papacy had
Speaker 2: stayed in Avignon, you might have actually seen a little
Speaker 2: bit of better uptake in terms of reform, which is
Speaker 2: funny because it's usually associated with excess. But you get
Speaker 2: back to Italy and they're like, no, we need a
Speaker 2: better palace almost immediately, right, So if they'd stayed in Avenue,
Speaker 2: things maybe would have calmed down a little bit. But
Speaker 2: you would also have to do something about all these
Speaker 2: fucking Habsburgs, right, And I mean, having said that, if
Speaker 2: you were, if the various like Frederick their Wise is
Speaker 2: never presented with this particular opportunity to shed himself from
Speaker 2: Habsburg submission, is he going to go Protestant or are
Speaker 2: they going to find another way of doing it? You know,
Speaker 2: it's possible to say that Athlics would exist in the
Speaker 2: Holy Roman Empire, wouldn't you know, because certainly we do
Speaker 2: see that, you know, we see the the creation of
Speaker 2: the Austro Hungarian Empire eventually, you know, you see the
Speaker 2: various German states do different things as a result of this.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, I think it would be possible.
Speaker 2: Although the trouble is that with the Hussites it's already
Speaker 2: a little bit out of the bag, So you would
Speaker 2: need to go back to that, I think in order
Speaker 2: to do that, And I think in order to suppress
Speaker 2: the Whosites you kind of need to go back further
Speaker 2: and you need to get more on top of the lawlards.
Speaker 2: So I mean, and there's also probably something here where
Speaker 2: like literally if you stop out of Bohemia marrying into
Speaker 2: the British throne. All of this would be say the
Speaker 2: English throne. They're not British at the time, so do
Speaker 2: not yell at me English people. Yeah, like they I
Speaker 2: think that stopping the spread of that particular line of
Speaker 2: reasoning would be important, but I you know, that would
Speaker 2: just mean kind of like cracking down on Wycliffe a
Speaker 2: lot earlier, and cracking down on Wycliffe. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think that's possible, but you know, they they really were
Speaker 2: just like, could you just fucking knock it off? And
Speaker 2: he's like, I will never stop. I do not believe
Speaker 2: in transubstantiation. And it's like, bro, I mean he's like,
Speaker 2: I totally agree with him on a lot of things.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's just kind of like they they
Speaker 2: handled that really badly, but mostly because he was quite
Speaker 2: popular in Oxford, and nobody wanted to piss Oxford off,
Speaker 2: So you know, they wait, they wait till he's dead
Speaker 2: and then and now that's now you got lollards. And
Speaker 2: then by the time they're suppressing them, the checks have
Speaker 2: decided they fucking love lollergy, you know, and and then
Speaker 2: you know, by the time you've got Czech Bibles and
Speaker 2: like a whole kingdom that's gone all that's gonna do
Speaker 2: is embolden other members of the Holy Roman Empire. And
Speaker 2: you know, so like they're they're all gonna be looking
Speaker 2: over at Bohemia and they're like, well, the check's about
Speaker 2: to do to Hoko Markot do it right. So it's
Speaker 2: really difficult to say. I think you need to go
Speaker 2: back and address why cliffs concerns in order to stop it.
Speaker 2: I think like that's how far you need to go back.
Speaker 2: I think we're talking kind of fourteenth century interventions if
Speaker 2: you really want to do it, and you're going to
Speaker 2: have to change taste and so it's a pretty big job.
Speaker 2: But I mean, it's not inevitable, like and especially it's
Speaker 2: not inevitable that Protestantism ended up in the way that
Speaker 2: it did, which is like very yeah, fucking Prussian or
Speaker 2: whatever the shit, you know, like it didn't have to
Speaker 2: be like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be honest, I do not know that there
Speaker 1: is a circumstance under like the way that we understand history.
Speaker 1: I do not know that there is a circumstance what
Speaker 1: that would cause the Catholic Church to do this, because
Speaker 1: they would have to experience a system shock from outside
Speaker 1: that is so big and so powerful that it scares
Speaker 1: the shit out of them and turns it into an
Speaker 1: existential thing. And I really do not know that you
Speaker 1: have that thing until later. If now I say that
Speaker 1: there was a point where the Mongols were still going
Speaker 1: and they were moving across they were moving across Asia,
Speaker 1: and they have made it into Europe, and they were
Speaker 1: in Hungary, and they were starting to make em roads
Speaker 1: into Poland. And there is no chance that anyone for
Speaker 1: the rest of the for the rest of the European
Speaker 1: continent could stop the Mongols. They had run through everyone else,
Speaker 1: They ran through medieval China. They're not None of the
Speaker 1: thirteenth century European states are stopping them unless they stop themselves,
Speaker 1: which is what happened because Ogaday died, Oga Day Khan died,
Speaker 1: who was the successor to Timmychen, and he when he died,
Speaker 1: they pulled back and then they stopped that. That right
Speaker 1: there is I think the only thing that could do it,
Speaker 1: because the Church has too much money. They're too powerful
Speaker 1: by this point. Once they undertake something like the First
Speaker 1: Crusade or they start doing stuff like that, they are
Speaker 1: too powerful to stop themselves and be like, whoa, we
Speaker 1: really got to pull back from the brink, like you
Speaker 1: have to experience the utter terror of standing over the
Speaker 1: edge and looking into oblivion and being like we're going
Speaker 1: to die. And I mean maybe if the Mongols do that,
Speaker 1: like and they make it all the way to like
Speaker 1: France or something, then like yeah, like you might see
Speaker 1: the church like seriously reform and change things. But like
Speaker 1: other than that, they got hit by the Black Death,
Speaker 1: and the response to the Black Death was this is
Speaker 1: your fault, not outwards, like they didn't like and I mean,
Speaker 1: the Black Death is like the closest that they would
Speaker 1: be that they would be looking at like their power
Speaker 1: breaking down, and they saw that and they were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: not our fucking fault. You did it like you you
Speaker 1: you peasants and nobles because you were being sinful or what.
Speaker 1: And you know, like and that is once you have
Speaker 1: that response, like, you cannot, like you cannot come back
Speaker 1: from that response to the Black Death. You cannot if
Speaker 1: you see seventy percent of your town die and the
Speaker 1: bishop down the road goes, uh, actually it was because
Speaker 1: you guys didn't close that brothel or whatever. You're like,
Speaker 1: at some point someone is gonna be like, hey, fuck
Speaker 1: you you you you guys, like if if you needed
Speaker 1: that clothes, then you should, like, you know, like just
Speaker 1: fuck you. It's not our fault. You're the ones who
Speaker 1: intercests with God, not us, And I just don't ever
Speaker 1: think that they would do it. I the Protestant Reformation
Speaker 1: as we got it is not inevitable. It could be different.
Speaker 1: It could come a little sooner depending on things. It
Speaker 1: could be pushed back a little later, depending like if
Speaker 1: if Henry the Eighth doesn't h if his brother Arthur
Speaker 1: doesn't die, and there's no one to do Anglicanism in
Speaker 1: Europe in England, it's gonna look a whole lot different.
Speaker 1: It is going to take a so much longer to
Speaker 1: get across the Atlantic, and it's it's just going to
Speaker 1: be like a whole European thing by itself, because England
Speaker 1: and the Dutch were the ones, who you know, who
Speaker 1: exported it, and so yeah, but I mean, I just
Speaker 1: I really don't know. I don't It's not inevitable. But
Speaker 1: I do think that a reformation is inevitable. I do
Speaker 1: not think that there is any way, on any timeline,
Speaker 1: under any circumstance, where you would get from whatever three
Speaker 1: three thirteen CE to twenty twenty five CE and only
Speaker 1: have a monolithic Catholic Church and then the Orthodox off
Speaker 1: to the side. That that is, in my mind, a
Speaker 1: historic impossibility. I do not think that is possible under
Speaker 1: any circumstance.
Speaker 2: I've decided that might take. I've decided that if the
Speaker 2: church had just listened to young Militch of Cromerses fourteenth century,
Speaker 2: I've decided. I've decided this is my take. If you
Speaker 2: just do everything that Mileitch says, you'll be fine. Bro.
Speaker 2: It would have been it would have been fine. It
Speaker 2: would have been fine. Get Charles the Fourth to help
Speaker 2: out with the reform. We need a big tour where
Speaker 2: all bishops have to like, they all have to come
Speaker 2: to Rome. We're shutting Avenue and down. You've got to
Speaker 2: come to Rome right now and get yelled at and
Speaker 2: take your fucking medicine. There needs to be like way
Speaker 2: more preachers working with the local communities. And also give
Speaker 2: Charles the Fourth everything he wants.
Speaker 1: Make him, make him the universal monarch of and make
Speaker 1: Hope the universal uh religious head as he basically was.
Speaker 1: And there you go, Yeah, I do. I think you
Speaker 1: also have to go back and you have to tell
Speaker 1: them you have to destroy every printing press you find
Speaker 1: under no circumstance can you allow the printing press to
Speaker 1: come out. And that is because people will share ideas.
Speaker 1: It does not matter. That is always going to happen.
Speaker 1: We are seeing it right now with how people react
Speaker 1: to the Internet and becoming terminally online, and people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, you see the rise in like flat earthism
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and like anti vax stuff, and like,
Speaker 1: once you get exposed to all this, people are going
Speaker 1: to just go run with it because we're kind of
Speaker 1: insane like that, and we're I mean, that's just kind
Speaker 1: of how we are. And you know, so you have to,
Speaker 1: like you have to destroy all the printing presses. You
Speaker 1: have to you have to like keep the iron fist
Speaker 1: of hegemony down, and you have to make sure that
Speaker 1: when you go to the Americas, you have a full
Speaker 1: like plan to keep it over there so that it
Speaker 1: doesn't become infused and spark offshoot religions that are mixes
Speaker 1: of Paganism and Catholicism, which is also an possibility it
Speaker 1: might be, but anyway, like, yeah, I don't I just
Speaker 1: don't think there's a way, and I don't I don't.
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't it doesn't have to look like
Speaker 1: the Protestantism we have now, which is which has been
Speaker 1: so deliterious in so many ways. But it's like it
Speaker 1: could have been worse. I mean, there's this is not
Speaker 1: the worst timeline. We still exist, so it could have
Speaker 1: been worse, now.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I mean I people get people will be like yo whatever,
Speaker 1: like no it no, it could be worse, believe me. There.
Speaker 2: I mean if the Puritans had gone a beggar hold,
Speaker 2: everything would have been.
Speaker 1: Worse, you know. Yeah, I mean like there's that there's
Speaker 1: like yeah, it's like you know, there's the man in
Speaker 1: the High Castle, you know, alternate universe where we're under
Speaker 1: the dominion of the Japanese Empire and the Knats, like
Speaker 1: you know, it's like good God, anyway, It's yeah, Leach
Speaker 1: was right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a Darby County podcast. It's I don't podcast.
Speaker 1: I don't think that you can.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: I don't think that they are going to reform enough
Speaker 1: because I don't think, as we see with every power
Speaker 1: structure in history, unless they are scared to literal death
Speaker 1: that they are dying or are going to die, they
Speaker 1: will not change, like it just doesn't work. They don't
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, so that's my opinion. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you guys make of it what you will. Thank you, Gassie,
Speaker 1: and thank you everyone for the questions. We appreciate it. Uh.
Speaker 1: Next time, as we said, we will be back with
Speaker 1: an episode about conclaves, and we are going to talk
Speaker 1: about all about how you should go and stand outside
Speaker 1: the conclave with a bunch of bird seed on your
Speaker 1: shoulders so pigeons are a dove's roost on your on
Speaker 1: your shoulders, and you are elected pope. That's right, because
Speaker 1: that did work at least one point, according to the sources.
Speaker 1: Come back for that. We'll talk about conclaves. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about out the death of Francis and what what that meat,
Speaker 1: what the modern conclave kind of looks like, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll have fun because they are fun. And
Speaker 1: hopefully they won't pick someone. Hopefully they'll pick someone on
Speaker 1: the more progressive end of the Catholic insanity spectrum. The
Speaker 1: other end. I don't know who that is. Hopefully someone
Speaker 1: someone that makes that makes JD that makes JD Vance mad?
Speaker 1: That would I mean, that is what we want, isn't
Speaker 1: it you know, but other than that, also someone who's
Speaker 1: going to excommunicate it, maybe that would be cool, just thought,
Speaker 1: man his last act.
Speaker 2: But you know what, Pope France has had the opportunity
Speaker 2: to do the funniest thing of all time and he
Speaker 2: like really.
Speaker 1: So much.
Speaker 2: Anyway, fumbled, you.
Speaker 1: Know, annoys me anyway, Uh, Francis, thanks for the memories. Uh,
Speaker 1: thanks for pissing off jd Vance and other similar arch
Speaker 1: conservative Catholics. And yeah, other than that, thank you all
Speaker 1: for the questions. Subscribe to the Patreon eleanor what the
Speaker 1: hell is going on with you?
Speaker 2: Oh May It's gonna be a nightmare week for me
Speaker 2: because the Pope died and I work in like the
Speaker 2: one industry where that constitutes an emergency. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know, doing a lot of that here, there and
Speaker 2: everywhere this week. So keep an eye on my socials
Speaker 2: if you want to see where I'm being asked about
Speaker 2: that a lot at Going Medieval. I'll try to write
Speaker 2: something up on the blog eventually as well. Hopefully i'll
Speaker 2: get that done this month, but otherwise I'm just kind
Speaker 2: of like trying to not lose my mind and get
Speaker 2: through it. Babes, we're just oh if you are Another
Speaker 2: thing I will say is plug for human decency. If
Speaker 2: you live in the United Kingdom, could you please do
Speaker 2: me a solid and write to your MP and scream
Speaker 2: at them about how trans rights are human rights. That
Speaker 2: would be really cool. It's important for us to not
Speaker 2: kind of like give up hope right now on all
Speaker 2: of this. And at the very least what you can
Speaker 2: do is like just make your MP miserable, right, Like,
Speaker 2: make them just feel absolutely awful about their lives and
Speaker 2: their choices. So I really want you to kind of
Speaker 2: like consider what you could do in terms of making
Speaker 2: them miserable. There's a really great resource that I used
Speaker 2: in order to write to my MP today and scream
Speaker 2: at them. That is online. Sorry I am just picking
Speaker 2: it up. Yeah, it is called If you go to
Speaker 2: the trans Legalproject dot org. They have guidelines for how
Speaker 2: you can write to your MP and what you should
Speaker 2: say to them about how like, actually, I don't think
Speaker 2: we should have gender cops who decide if a woman
Speaker 2: is sufficiently feminine looking if she needs to pee in public,
Speaker 2: So do be a solid do us all favor and
Speaker 2: check that out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if you have a good imp like Jeremy
Speaker 1: Corbyn and he has said good things. You still you know,
Speaker 1: they still know that people do that because that still
Speaker 1: affects things over there. I do not know how much
Speaker 1: it affects things here with that being a much bigger nation,
Speaker 1: but I'm not like bigger in terms of size.
Speaker 2: Not. Oh well, it turns out that even in America,
Speaker 2: if you write to your senator, if they get yelled
Speaker 2: at by like ten people, they oh, everyone's bad at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll post a video, They'll post a TikTok video.
Speaker 1: Look at all the threats we get and all the
Speaker 1: replies are good. You deserve more threats. Oh man, I
Speaker 1: wish I could get the audio. There's a video like
Speaker 1: a people and it's just old people. It's not young people.
Speaker 1: It's old people, a lot of them with Southern accidents,
Speaker 1: calling uh Tom Tillis, who's a senator from North Carolina,
Speaker 1: and being like.
Speaker 4: You, dumb son of a fucking bitch, How fucking dare
Speaker 4: you do this? You think you could take our tech?
Speaker 4: And you're just like okay, man, go and like like
Speaker 4: I find what and fucked.
Speaker 1: Up from nam.
Speaker 4: I'd come down there, shove a fucking rifle down your
Speaker 4: goddamn threat you're.
Speaker 1: Like, whoa, whoa, right, buddy, all right, okay, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I mean that's great. Anyway, I'm not praising death threats.
Speaker 1: I am praising oh, speaking out and using your voice
Speaker 1: in the political process.
Speaker 2: You were saying those things for the purposes of parody.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that was That was a video, the TikTok
Speaker 1: video that can be linked to. I am not endorsing
Speaker 1: uh saying such things. I am endorsing uh calling them
Speaker 1: and making them lives miserable until they change their idea
Speaker 1: and vote uh to say that trans people are people
Speaker 1: in trans rights or human rights and everything else that's
Speaker 1: wrong with the world. But uh, yeah, anyway, you guys
Speaker 1: know where to find me where I'm saying shit like that.
Speaker 1: You can find me on the socials. Luke is amazing,
Speaker 1: and you can find them. I'll show people's for the
Speaker 1: Old Republic if you want to hear me chat about
Speaker 1: Star Wars. But anyway, that's going to do it for
Speaker 1: us today. Thank y'all for listening. We'll see you next time. Bye.