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Speaker 1: You're a gobbling the demon a bull merchard.

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Speaker 2: You saw me?

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Speaker 1: I'm your dude? Is this your person on the web?

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Speaker 2: I need a gender jew.

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Speaker 1: I can't take and choice yourself?

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Speaker 2: You saw me on you dude? Is this.

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Speaker 1: It comes out of the dog the tree? Why do

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you pray eat the dead people? That's the traditions? A

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madden you heretic?

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Speaker 2: Wow, you dude? Is this your.

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Speaker 1: Person on the web?

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Speaker 3: I need a gender jew can't he's a little dear

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So boys, you dudemic justification.

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Speaker 4: Circular two.

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Speaker 5: It's not crafty, Jamie?

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Speaker 1: Did you make me? I express?

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Speaker 6: So?

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna open it up. Let's keep it on topic.

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One plus one plus one equal three. Icons are idealatry

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Jay j But Jay?

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Speaker 2: Can I talk?

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Speaker 7: But it wasn't next cathod Rave God is real?

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Speaker 8: WI?

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Speaker 9: Does he allow evil? I?

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Speaker 1: Do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men? It's

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a no brainer. You're such a tyrannical rainer.

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Speaker 10: Is this your.

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Speaker 8: First time on the in or well?

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Speaker 1: I need a change, can't take it these loads your

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slow boys? Is this your first time on the wesh?

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Speaker 2: Did I need to changer? Joe?

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Speaker 8: Was that an uncreated foot?

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Speaker 7: Fart A mute dude, Stop repeating my name, dude, you

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goober's callin or I'll boot you. Where did we get

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the Bible from? Have you read the Cannons of Francia?

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Speaker 3: What are you Catholic?

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Speaker 5: Are you Prosians?

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Speaker 7: I'm not trying to be me, but do you have

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an actual argument?

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Speaker 2: There is only one church.

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Speaker 7: You are in a cult, You're a goblin, a demon,

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a boomer?

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Speaker 5: Quick question?

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Speaker 7: Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?

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Speaker 1: How is this your first time on being? Or well

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I need to change your shoe. Can't take it these loads?

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You're slow boys?

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Speaker 9: Are you?

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Speaker 1: Is this your first time on being? Or where I

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need a changer too?

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Speaker 11: If you're a wineman in front of the line.

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Speaker 1: I'm mute, dude, what.

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Speaker 2: Is your epistemic justification?

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Speaker 12: That argument is circular and you are refuted.

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Speaker 1: Is this your first time on me?

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Speaker 9: Or where I need to change your show?

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Speaker 1: Can't take it these loads? You're slow boys?

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Speaker 8: You?

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Speaker 1: Is this your first time on me? Or where I

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need to change your show?

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Speaker 2: If you're a lie moan front of.

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Speaker 9: A line on mute dude, Yeah, there's only one thing

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that can bring them law together.

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Speaker 5: That begins with you, but where it begins with you

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not give. I'm gonna say the word gives away, Begin

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the chance golf up.

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Speaker 13: Bankers get on the floor.

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Speaker 4: Thanks, give a pot.

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Speaker 2: Bankers give him pain. Baker, give name your name.

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Speaker 13: I want to see you ask the floor sees, get

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more hose, give pain, give my boots give.

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Speaker 2: I want to see the CEOs.

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Speaker 5: It ruin those slides in a arnderd and forty one.

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Speaker 1: And tell the monkeys you find off in that.

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Speaker 13: Tree what you're doing up there? Why you scared? Why

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you running from every bad? You ran from the true

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and from me?

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Speaker 3: Like the female monkeys mis doumbanatas between the trees hanging.

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Speaker 1: Down upside down. That's smile.

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Speaker 14: Side.

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Speaker 5: Tell the monkey what.

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Speaker 4: You do it to me?

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Speaker 13: T do a monkey, deal a macky.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, oh.

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Speaker 5: Now Phil and James Brown, Kurt Franklin, do it to me?

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Speaker 13: Till it parkay whoa.

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Speaker 5: Oh, welcome everybody. It's a Saturday night. Why not do it?

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Why not open it up? Is there any there's one

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more song? There's a mk ultra version of the Matt

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Dylanukey song.

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Speaker 15: Monkey you climb up in that tree, what you're doing

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up there while you scared, while you.

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Speaker 1: Running from every debate, you and from Andrew and from me.

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Speaker 15: Adla monkey, what you're doing to me.

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Speaker 1: Down?

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Speaker 5: Nobody wants to come to debate. Everybody's running away as

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soon as they done got here.

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Speaker 2: Beer beer.

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Speaker 5: We'll keep the local starships, star colonies in line. Beer

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is a mind.

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Speaker 11: Killer, telling the monkey, all right, people are running away,

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what's this crap.

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Speaker 1: Crip?

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Speaker 5: Fifty five people in line and we've only got two

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people who want to come on and do the debates.

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He wont okay. One dude came back. He came back.

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We've got a couple of super chats and then I'm

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gonna open it up right way. Bulpez five dollars, bruh,

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give me a terms McKenna impression. Talking about tahi, Well,

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taw hid is when you can't talk about the unity

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of the being because it's essentially a hidden deity, hence

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the term taw hid h. Brossi, five dollars, make it

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fiat clap, make that fiat clap, Zammoxist, five dollars. It's

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the year of love.

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Speaker 1: It's a year of love.

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Speaker 4: Huh.

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Speaker 5: I can't sing with my perfect hair metal inflection like

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I would like to because I still have a cold,

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but it's almost gone. Eric Ze two dollars. I like

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this dream. That means it's an algorithm push. That's what

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I like to hear. He knows the nature of the

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industry and the business. You know what I'm saying. He

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knows how to industry, how the industry work. Yes, you

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can still super chat with stream laves. Mister B see

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me see me, Holy Holy said, we got some perves

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up in the chat already, Holy says, let me see

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them toes? Oh, oh all you get today? You get some.

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I'll show you my toes. But there they're only going

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to be They're modest toes because they're covered. Get it,

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they're covered because I got sock some modest toes. We

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got a bunch of people online. I'm wanna go to

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all these people piling mister B ten dollars. I saw redditor.

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He said that Matt deal Honey really want the debate. Well,

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I guess that's it. I guess it's over. If a

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person on Reddit said, then Matt del Honey won, I

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guess that's the it's over. He won. This rhetitor said

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that even though MAT's arguments weren't very good. He was right,

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so he won the debate. Yeah, there we go. That

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sounds about like what I would expect from that vibe,

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from that vibe from that Reddit community. H Brosie five dollars.

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Some of the cringe cores songs are flat out hard

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like bankers. That stuff is objectively project pat certified. I

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like that techno remix that sal did of bankers. That's

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pretty hardcore, dude. What is your episomic justification for quantum skimmity?

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Toilet says, it's JA, It's DJ for five dollars. I

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can't talk today. I don't even know what's going on.

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Torren loves Jesus. Let's go, Jay. I'm glad you got

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monet eyes, not monetized monent eyes. Thank you. I enjoy

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being monent eyed. Voice of reasons face in the thumbnail

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got me laughing. You wrong for that.

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Speaker 16: I ain't doing nothing. I ain't do nothing what you

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think ID need? I ain't doing nothing. I don't know

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what the hell voice that was supposed to be. I

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was making a joke to Tristan that when he becomes

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a black gay performer that I've already figured out the

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caddy gossipy kind of RuPaul character name that it would be.

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And when Tristan becomes a caddy RuPaul gossipy black performer,

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his name is gonna be Invinity. It's a combination of

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envy and infinity because Tristan has infinite envy, so he's Invinity.

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Speaker 5: But he's like RuPaul. That's how he would laugh. So

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that's what that character was. I just realized, Bryce Shay

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five dollars if God real, Why yet Yakoub make white

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race a challenging question, a fair question, a question that

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any apologist worth his metal would struggle to answer. I

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can't even keep up. There's so many the superchats are

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just rolling in. I'm trying to get to them all. No,

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that's it, thank y'all, welcome everybody. We got my more

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super chests rolling in. John Kel says for twenty us

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made I FIEI Klap. Everybody likes the techno version of

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that song, but it's sh it's beating out my original

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nineteen ninety three, like a euro dance version of it.

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So I was gonna go to it, but maybe not.

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We'll never get anywhere if I keep playing music all day.

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But thank y'all, welcome. Everybody got five hundred chad Nerds

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in the chat. You can sign up, by the way,

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become a chad Nerd member on YouTube memberships. We've only

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been monetized for like nine or ten days and we

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already got almost two hundred members. That's crazy. Do is

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our stream health okay? What's going on? It seems like

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it says it's okay? Is it skipping because I tried

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to fix the uh?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 5: I guess it's about his best, the best we're gonna get.

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Mister b twenty bucks Jay, when he learned that his

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channel got monetized, Jay, he remembered, this community full of

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acoustic spurgs? Is that standing for autism? And he has

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to read out all this garbage. I wouldn't characterize the

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beloved super chatters as garbage. All right now? Is it

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gonna start dropping down the streame stream Health? I mean

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as long as we as long as y'all can hear me.

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You don't need to see my face. Because I tried

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to up the bit rate. I thought that might help.

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I don't know if it's gonna work or not. Somebody said,

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I work for Verizon, Call me and I'll help you.

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How are you gonna help, dude, it's not a Verizon problem.

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You think I haven't had then Comcast or whoever it

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is out here like ten times and you just can't.

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I mean, there's no I don't know what the answer is.

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If you try to live stream, it doesn't have a

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consistent bit rate. It goes down and then it pops up,

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and then it drops back up, drops some meccap, drop

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some mecca and that's all it's ever been here. And

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I've I've had them out here I don't know how

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many times, and the workers don't even know what it is.

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So I can lower the bit rate and it still

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does all the same stuff. So David Flood want gifted

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out member ships demas gifting it out. Elder Leon elder

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lyon Leon hed he stringer, got some new ways, Hey

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he's stranger, got some new gimmicks. Got a bit of

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press up for you. Skipped frames for in two minutes,

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John Kel, do another goal? Do we already meet that goal? Okay,

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start another goal? How about I almost set this. I

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almost set this like super high magenta goal for three hours.

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That was a ten super chest for over fifty dollars.

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When I make like a thousand dollars on the stream.

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You're gonna get your next impression. I'm trying to get

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the started. We get somebody super chats rolling in, which

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is fine with me. Do another goal, okay, don John Kell,

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thank you so much. Jr. Hasbro five books. I'm looking

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forward to Esoteric Colly with part three. Are you gonna

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mention raising Kine especially directors cut. Yes, there's gonna be

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a diploment section and we're gonna be talking about raising Kine.

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We're gonna talk about the fury. We'll talk about what's

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that one with the due that kind of goes mind

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control crazy over prawn. We took notes on I forget

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the name of it, discord what's up? Shout out? Open

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up the task manager and check the performance. You don't

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about the task manager in YouTube studio, it just says

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stream health poor. The task manager in stream labs will

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just say skip frames detected forty six percent last two minutes.

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So it's always the same. John Kell, fifty bucks, thank

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you so much. Appreciate that. What percentage is the computer

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running it? I don't think it's a computer problem. Computer's

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running at like twenty thirty percent. It says see I

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can see the stream rate and it drops to three thousand,

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and it goes up to six thousand, and it'll stay

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at about six thousand and then it'll drop to three

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thousand and come back. And it's always done that ever

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since I've lived here, and it doesn't matter how many

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times people come out here. There is no known solution.

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So I mean, it'll go up to twelve thousand kilobites

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a second, then I'll say your string quality is good

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seven thousand, and then boom, it drops the three and

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then it comes back. So nobody knows what's up. We

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got over a thousand people, everybody, uh has piled up

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in it. Let's get Let's get it started. Let's get

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it started. Let's get it started. Antonios benderos.

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Speaker 17: Hi Jay, good, good to you, You having a good

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start to you. Thanks for taking my queriod's random Yeah vaccine. Yeah,

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I'll try not be too week this time.

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Speaker 16: But I got some new ways, got some new ways

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for yah.

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Speaker 18: Yeah right, Jack, Jesus, excuse really sorry the bless from

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you forever and here. I was just wondering if you've

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read anywhere about any discussion about Adam and Eve in

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the sense of when overall and potentially metaphysics, but things

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about that.

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Speaker 5: I had not I mean, are you referring to the soul?

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Speaker 19: Yeah, yeah, potentially, Like.

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Speaker 18: The way I said, it is definitely separate soul that

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Eve would have had, assuming that we all follow from

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Adam and Eve and that's how things would have been

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handed down to us thereafter. But you know, God breed

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life into Adam, and you know, perpetual life would have

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gone through that. But there was no specific sort of

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like mentioned as to when the soul comes to Eve,

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if it would have been inside Adam from the beginning

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or if as soon as she was created, because I.

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Speaker 8: Guess I could ask you could beg to say.

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Speaker 18: Like when does life actually begin even when it comes

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to you know about by bulls and things like that.

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So I'm just wondering if this, if it'd been any

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discussions on when she received her.

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Speaker 5: I don't know about Eve, but I mean, Saint Maximus

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teaches that the soul is created at the moment of conception.

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But thank you for that magic, Mike Orthodox and Man

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Stripper A country to come up in here?

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Speaker 2: Eh eh okay, hear, yeah? What's about a question about

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price up? And then I wanted to go where I

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disagree about salvation?

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Speaker 20: So I know you take the presuppositional approach in terms

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of apologetic methodology, but you like, you know, you rely

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on Presbyterian reform guys that has been to gourgy Boston.

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Speaker 2: So where do you disagree with them?

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Speaker 5: And pretty so, where did transcendental arguments come from?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm just trying to learn about it.

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Speaker 5: So so who do you think was the first two

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positive transit arguments? You don't know? No, Okay, well they're

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in Aristotle.

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Speaker 9: Okay.

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Speaker 5: John Ascus refers to transit argument of the very beginning

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of founton Knowledge. Felis he uses transcendental argument. So there's

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nothing necessarily about transit augmentation that it makes it the

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property of the reformed. Furthermore, an argument stands on its own,

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and it doesn't really matter what group makes the argument, right,

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So do you know about the genetic fallacy?

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Speaker 20: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Okay, what's the genetic fallacy? What's the genetic it's like

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when the particular group? Yeah? Right, So what does that

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have to do with whether it's true or not? Hello?

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Are you there?

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Speaker 8: Yo?

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Speaker 20: In priest oppositional apologetics like their storting part of their

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methodology kind of relies upon tulip and total depravity and

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how there's no like neutral route, neutral ground and things

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like that.

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Speaker 5: Well, there's plenty of philosophers who teach that the reality

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is not theory neutral. So are they all Calvinists? Uh no, Right,

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So there's nothing about theory neutrality. There's nothing about transit

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argumentation or any of that that necessitates Calvinism. And that's

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why I always argue that it's the.

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Speaker 20: So okay, okay, So how do you understand? So I

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need to talk about salvation and orthodoxy? So how do

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you understand I've heard your lectures to you any how,

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you say that faith alone, justification by faith alone isn't

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true because the person when they come to Jesus Christ,

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they don't go through metaphysical change in themselves.

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Speaker 12: Is that correct?

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Speaker 5: That's part of it?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So how so let's say when that happens?

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Speaker 20: Right, So, like, and how do you know, like how

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much how many how much work do you have to

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do to be like metaphysically go through a change and

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be justified in God's eyes?

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Speaker 5: In your view, well, Christ's life is the paradigm model,

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and so there's always synergy between the human nature and

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the divine nature. And that's why, for example, all the

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early Church fathers and even the first generate baptism is

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a work. This necessary repentance is a work that's necessary.

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Jesus says that this is the work of God that

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you believe on Him whom he has sent. So faith

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in Christ is also we flesh it out like all

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of these works are necessary to be saying. Peter says,

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an act to repent and be baptized for the remission

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of sins. And we know he's talking about water baptism

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because they immediately do water baptism, so it's not a

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secret Calvinist regeneration baptism. It's actual water baptism. Titus three

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calls it the washing of regeneration. So all of those

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things are the beginning point of salvation. Salvation is a pross,

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one time thing. It's your whole life, and it's the

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escton ultimately.

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Speaker 20: Sure, so let me just go back to the point

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you mentioned about the spiritual baptism, right, So when you

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read the Book of Acts and they get the tour

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this start of the book, they get the spirit. What

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is it the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They weren't

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physically baptized in water.

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Speaker 2: There's no mention of that.

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Speaker 5: So how does you have no idea what you're talking

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about if you're not read Acts too. I specifically started

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Acts two thirty people right after that, which is why

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I said, that's how we know they're talking about water baptism.

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Pentecost is not a spiritual baptism separate from something else

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that's the coming of the Holy Spirit and power. And

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when Peter preaches at Pentecost, what does he tell the

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people in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine.

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Speaker 2: Envy baptized?

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Speaker 5: Is that okay? And then what is what is he

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talking about?

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Speaker 19: There?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 5: You're telling me that's not water baptism, even though they

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literally baptize the people in water right after that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I know I do get that that is

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water baptism for you.

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Speaker 20: Just said it's not water baptism though, No, No, I'm

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talking about earlier in the Acts chapter. I'm talking about

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the apostoms of Apostles himself, who water baptized the Apostles because.

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Speaker 5: Beat boots in weeks that's what Jesus promised, and Acts

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becue me and John fourteen fifty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: That they get water baptized.

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Speaker 5: Well, they didn't have to be baptized because they're the

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beginning of the foundation stones of the church and Jesus

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tells them to baptize.

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Speaker 19: Okay, fair point.

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Speaker 5: And also water baptism didn't occur with anybody in the

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Old Covenant, and they're all saved in the same way.

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That doesn't mean that after this point, that's not the

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means by which regeneration occurs.

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Speaker 2: Okay, fair point.

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Speaker 20: Yeah, But I have another question about salivation buf faith alone. Right, So,

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like what is the position of works in your and

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your understanding? Like, like, for example, I'm talking about just

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the centification, right, is scientification necessary for justification? But if

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you say in works to be to be justified, I mean,

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I know you're talking you say that, you know, like

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coming to repent.

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Speaker 5: The mistake is that you're you think of justification as

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a legal status and it's not. It's part of a

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that's part of the analogy. But in Romans four, when

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Paul cites Genesis fifteen, that's after Abraham has already been

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doing three chapters of good works. So Abraham should not

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have men justified quote unquote in Genesis fifteen. If you're

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reading of Romans for is correct see Romans for refutes

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the Calvinist interpretation. Do you understand what I mean by

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that argument?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I get that.

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Speaker 20: So like if you're so, how do you understand like

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to the Calvinistic Channe in Romans when he talks about

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you know you were justified and then he also just

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says that you know you were you were called justifies

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and then glorified. It's all like linked together, it is.

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Speaker 5: But what you're missing as a Calvinist is that that's

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written to an actual, visible group of people in Rome,

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as a group of the predestined? Did Paul write in

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Roman Ephicus?

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Speaker 2: I can't say it's it's both.

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Speaker 5: No, it can be both, because how can he call

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the entire visible group the elect and the predestined because

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they're not.

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Speaker 2: What it wouldn't apply to Christians today when he like and.

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Speaker 5: The general those have to do with today? Just when

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he writes to the actual church in Ephesus and he

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calls them the predestine, who's he calling the predestine in

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the church writing about the Calvinist view? No, I mean

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the predestined are not the visible church, that's the elect only.

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Speaker 2: From from your position.

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Speaker 5: I mean Calvinism fails in terms of Christology. That's the

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starting point, because Calvinism begins with the idea of the

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divine decree and soteriology, and so it has the wrong

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order of theology. It has to begin with the Trinity

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and Christology and the in case. That's why you guys

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don't have the essence interistinction, you don't have the real presence.

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You're missing all of these things because you begin your

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your theology with steriology.

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Speaker 20: So another question, how do you determine like when how

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to interpret in a legal in a legal understanding or not?

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Because you know you when when there are lots of salvation,

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salvation by faith a loan passages, you'll just say that

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it's here.

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Speaker 5: There are no faith a loan passages. There are passages

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that say faith not were of law. And in the

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concept he's talking about Jewish law. But if you look

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at Galatians, Paul says, the only faith that counts as

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the one that works through love. So Paul is saying

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the same thing as James. It's you guys that have

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invented the idea of a purely fictional legal standing. That

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is your salvation that's what doesn't exist in the ancient

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or medieval world. And if you read modern even the

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conservative Protestant Reformation theologians, whether in the Anglican or in

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the Lutheran tradition, like Anglicans like Alstro McGrath or Lutherans

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like Haiko Oberman, they all point out how there were

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no nominalists in the ancient and medieval world until Aukham

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in other words, to call you righteous when you're in

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fact wicked and you're covered in these you know, imputational

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rags of righteouness, the cover or the hum of the rags,

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the righteous of Christ that covers your filthy rags and

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all this stuff that's only possible with nominalism. And nobody

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in the ancient medieval world was anomalist. So how do

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you get God being able to declare people in a

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legal status that they don't actually possess in reality?

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Speaker 20: So okay, So then how do you understand the legal

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and the forensic language that does use in.

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Speaker 5: Regardless based on what's actually there?

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Speaker 12: What's actually what do you mean like you're.

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Speaker 5: Actually made righteous? That's what it's called baptism or regeneration.

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The sacraments actually convey the grace.

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Speaker 20: Okay, So so like, let's say the pious works that

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you do, do they contribute to your salvation and scientification?

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Or is it just the sacraments that you do in

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the Orthodox Church? Like let's say, when you participate in

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the sacraments right of the Orthodox Church, are you you're

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participating in the uncreated energy right of the.

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Speaker 2: Correct So what about the.

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Speaker 20: Let's say, the sacraments that exist, like you know that

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are done in other church or yes? Or what so

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the uncreated grise only exists in the Orthodox Church, that's your.

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Speaker 5: Position, Yes, because it is the mystical body of Christ.

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So how come like these one Lord, one faith, one

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Baptist in one body. There's not twenty thousand, thirty thousand

472
00:30:59,559 --> 00:31:00,000
different ways.

473
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,359
Speaker 20: Why do you So why would like a Protestant a

474
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,480
Catholic need the uncredited grace.

475
00:31:05,319 --> 00:31:08,839
Speaker 5: Of That's this is something that anybody in any religion

476
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,599
can say that they become a morally reformed person or

477
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,079
they're better or I mean, I don't. That's all purely subjective.

478
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:16,920
I know, I have no idea what you think spiritual

479
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:17,359
growth is.

480
00:31:18,039 --> 00:31:22,359
Speaker 20: I mean, okay, sure, but I'm talking about spiritual growth

481
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,400
as in like you know, sinding less and doing.

482
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 5: You know, being obedient to God. So now it's salvation

483
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:29,480
by works. I thought you didn't believe in salvation my works.

484
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:32,359
Speaker 20: No, But I mean I think we're we're as Christians

485
00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:35,240
were there to conform to the image of Christ. Right, So, like,

486
00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:37,279
I'm not saying that we're doing these things to be saved.

487
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:39,960
This is just a byproduct of like, you know, our faith,

488
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:41,759
like in our faith is genuine. That's what we want

489
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:44,160
to do, the righteous things that God wants us to do.

490
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,000
So what do you think about that?

491
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:52,759
Speaker 5: Just one second?

492
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: Okay?

493
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 9: Like what what?

494
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:56,279
Speaker 2: Why?

495
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:58,799
Speaker 20: Would like you know, why what makes it necessary like

496
00:31:58,839 --> 00:32:02,720
the uncreated and urge of Jesus or of the Orthodox Church?

497
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,599
Speaker 5: Because the creature can't save us a patient and divine

498
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,920
life and immortality. But in moral reform. So ironically, what

499
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:13,079
you're talking about is the proof of the faith is

500
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:16,440
the very thing that you, as a Calvinist, supposedly shouldn't

501
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,160
believe in. We're moving on, TJ. What's up, man? Try

502
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,599
to change the bit rate. Maybe that'll help with whatever's

503
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:23,880
going on.

504
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:40,519
Speaker 21: Yeah, O Jay, So I recently left Printocostalism and I've

505
00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:41,559
just become a catechumen.

506
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,359
Speaker 2: I just had a few questions, if that's okay.

507
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:52,319
Speaker 21: So I came into Orthodoxy based purely mainly like intellectually

508
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,599
and just through like reading history, and I'm lot and

509
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,640
I just wanted to know how to navigate, you know,

510
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,799
going from the vital reality and really taking part in

511
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,319
the you know, right.

512
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 5: Well, that's so, that's that's right. So it's not Q

513
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:07,519
and A. I'm not trying to be rude too, it's

514
00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:12,039
not you know, like catechumen days. So that's a question

515
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:15,680
for you and your spiritual father, going deeper into your

516
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,599
prayer life and all that, you should ask him. That

517
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:19,960
ash not trying to be rude.

518
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 7: Uh hey, can you hear me?

519
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 5: Yeah?

520
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:27,039
Speaker 2: Sweet?

521
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 22: So last when I was on we started talking about

522
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,599
uh sol scriptura. Uh, I'm coming out of Protestantism and

523
00:33:34,759 --> 00:33:37,440
so I've had a couple of things to think about.

524
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,359
And the question that you posed last time was how

525
00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:44,240
do I know as a like, sure, not as a

526
00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:46,599
Protestant anymore, but when I was a Protestant, how would

527
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,960
I know that? Matthew wrote Matthew, and I would I

528
00:33:51,079 --> 00:33:53,039
was thinking last night, I was like, well, can a

529
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:59,039
Protestants say that by the evidence of scholarly opinion that

530
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,319
we can see that Matthew wrote Mathew, which I guess

531
00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:04,839
those scholars were just they would have to defer to

532
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:05,559
the church anyway.

533
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 5: So the evidence is going to be based on the

534
00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:16,320
historical transmission, preservation, and self knowledge that the church in

535
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,280
history has. That's the point. So it's missing the point

536
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,400
to say, oh, well, I can go to the consensus

537
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,440
of scholars. And by the way, there's tons of liberal

538
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,119
scholars who probably don't believe that, So how is that

539
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,519
going to help anybody figure out canonicity? Apistolic authorship is

540
00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:35,239
only one of the elements that would go into why

541
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,880
Matthew's Gospel be included. There'd be other things too, like

542
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:42,800
was this gospel read in the Apostolic sees, was it

543
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,480
read in the majority of the sees throughout the empire?

544
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,199
Was it read in electionaries which are liturgical readings and

545
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,920
daily readings in the churches. All of these would be

546
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,880
elements as to how and why the Church would or

547
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,280
would not have included various books within the Bible. And

548
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,239
the point is that there's no fallible means to base

549
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,480
the Bible on without ending up with a fallible collection,

550
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,519
and thus the Bible becoming fallible. So every president who

551
00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:17,960
wants an inerrant infallible Bible is just continuing to spin

552
00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:21,480
the hamster wheel, missing the point that the argument is

553
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:24,119
not just oh, you need a church to tell you

554
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,440
the canon. The argument is that you cannot actually get

555
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:29,760
the autograph of the ones that Paul wrote, the ones

556
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,880
that Matthew wrote, without assuming that the church within history,

557
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,800
after the death of the Apostles for centuries accurately preserved

558
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,280
copied the Bible.

559
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: Sure, it's like you said before that like what is

560
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,000
the grid to choose?

561
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:50,639
Speaker 12: Also what scholar to follow?

562
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 22: So if you're a Protestant, since you don't have really

563
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,320
apistemological kind of lens to point to, like, oh, well,

564
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,400
I have an inbound source because you know, Sproul says

565
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:07,400
the dumb axiom of fallible collection of infallible book. I

566
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,159
have to sit there and claim, well, I guess it's

567
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,800
just fallible means that get me my infallible books.

568
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,079
Speaker 5: That doesn't make any sense.

569
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,559
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm saying. The Protestant would have to

570
00:36:16,639 --> 00:36:17,519
sit there, and if they.

571
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,039
Speaker 12: Were honest with themselves, they would say, okay, I received.

572
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,599
Speaker 2: My books, my sixty six books.

573
00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 22: The Protestant canon by fallible means, by the means of

574
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,840
the scholars that I pick the history that I.

575
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 5: Pick, right, So it's a non sequit or to then

576
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:38,800
say that if the Bible is based on that, then

577
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:39,960
it can't be infallible.

578
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 12: That's what I'm saying.

579
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's just chaos. Okay, that's the question

580
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:45,559
I had.

581
00:36:45,639 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 4: Thanks Man, good Hill, old Gunhild, Gunhild.

582
00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:18,639
Speaker 9: Are you there?

583
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:27,679
Speaker 2: Let me.

584
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 5: You have to turn your mic on. Man, I don't like,

585
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,920
I don't know where you guys as nobody used to

586
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,000
a space.

587
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:09,519
Speaker 2: And are Hey, Jake, I have a question.

588
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 23: I want so I want to be Orthodox, but I

589
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:19,159
have questions about rebaptism and and just kind of rigorism

590
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:24,280
in general rocre generally. Uh you know they I know,

591
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:27,079
I know it's a pejorative to call it corrective baptism.

592
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:30,880
But if I came from a Roman Catholic background and

593
00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:35,519
they want to do that, what are the consequences of that?

594
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: And do you find it?

595
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,599
Speaker 5: Why would there be consequences? What do you mean why

596
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:41,679
would you not just submit to what your elders are

597
00:38:41,679 --> 00:38:42,519
telling you? What do you mean?

598
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:45,159
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I guess that's my question. So I should

599
00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:45,559
just do that.

600
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, and this is yeah, and it's not it's not

601
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:49,519
I'm not trying to be rude to you. It's just

602
00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:53,679
it's not catechumen, ethic unite. It's debate night. But yeah,

603
00:38:53,800 --> 00:39:00,760
just submit to your elders. Cornelius. What's up, Elder ten dollars.

604
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,679
I learned a lot about orthodoxally the past few months

605
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,880
lurking in your book recommendations. Thank you, thank you, man.

606
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:05,480
I appreciate that.

607
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:06,639
Speaker 2: Jay.

608
00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:09,199
Speaker 5: I've been remember hold on, I've been remember your website.

609
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,920
Mister Anderson three dollars tried to watch the full video

610
00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:14,559
on history of the Left, and it brought me to

611
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:17,159
the YouTube it says I need to be a member. Yeah.

612
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,039
I realized that after I started making the YouTube lectures

613
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,079
Members video that the people who are on the website

614
00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:29,880
are not going to get that. You still have all

615
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,159
the audio, and I've only done it to five videos,

616
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,840
so you're not I mean, it's just me talking anyway,

617
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,440
so you might as well just listen to the audio.

618
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,280
But I'm gonna have to figure out how to do that.

619
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,119
I guess I'm about to have to make a copy.

620
00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:45,840
Anytime I move a video from YouTube private to members

621
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,000
I'll have to make a copy for drought boxing and

622
00:39:50,199 --> 00:40:01,000
for the website. What's up, man, Yes, sir, you.

623
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 24: Have criticized the pope for kissing the Quran, I think

624
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:08,800
for the second.

625
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 5: Yet I've gone way deeper than that. I think that's

626
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,000
pretty good. I know, I know, I know, mild compared

627
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:18,199
to a lot of the other criticisms.

628
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 20: I know, I know, I know.

629
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 24: But what I wanted to say. I saw a video

630
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:32,199
on YouTube of Patriarch Carell who was in a children hospital.

631
00:40:34,199 --> 00:40:38,480
It's all on Russian, but he was in the children's

632
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:49,400
hospital and said I translated into English. He said, he said, therefore,

633
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,599
pray with all your heart and ask the Lord for help.

634
00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: I know that both Christians and Muslims are here.

635
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,519
Speaker 24: Each one addresses the same God, the Creator, and response

636
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:03,320
to this we receive real divine help.

637
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 5: I don't have a problem saying that. I don't have

638
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,519
a problem saying he can get things wrong. And do

639
00:41:10,679 --> 00:41:13,400
you think the Orthodox system of theology is the same

640
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,679
as the Roman Catholic system.

641
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:23,159
Speaker 24: So for clarification, I'm Serbian Orthodox, I'm not Catholic.

642
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 5: Okay, so what's the point.

643
00:41:27,519 --> 00:41:30,639
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a problem with with this.

644
00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:36,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just I just agreed that it's wrong.

645
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 8: So so you did you agree with him or do you?

646
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 5: Of course I don't agree with that. I just said

647
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:44,400
he can be.

648
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 2: Wrong, Okay, Okay.

649
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,679
Speaker 24: Don't you think it should be addressed by other patriarchs like.

650
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,039
Speaker 2: Porphylia from Serbia?

651
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know, I think him, but I would

652
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:01,760
imagine it ought to.

653
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: Be m hmm. It's seven years old. I don't know

654
00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:09,760
if you believe me of what I called it.

655
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 5: I don't know that. I don't know Russian, but like

656
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,760
either way, whether it's translated accurately or not, Like, yes,

657
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,239
I'm sure there's a humanist tendencies like Hilary and Alfia.

658
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,639
He had a humanist tendency, so I'm sure he said

659
00:42:26,639 --> 00:42:28,960
a lot of wrong things too, mm hmm.

660
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,079
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.

661
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:37,639
Speaker 24: So the argument from you is that the patriarch doesn't

662
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,719
isn't available like Catholic streame for the pope, and therefore

663
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,559
if he says something wrong, it doesn't destroy Althodo.

664
00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 2: Did I get Detroit? Yeah?

665
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 5: The whole church is not built on the faith of

666
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:58,679
the guy in Rome m h. Whereas Vatican, Vatican One,

667
00:42:59,039 --> 00:43:01,559
nor any of them, but in One builds everything on

668
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:03,760
what is happening with Francis.

669
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay, mm hm m hm m.

670
00:43:11,039 --> 00:43:31,199
Speaker 5: That's said, thank you, sure, fair question, he roes. What's up. No,

671
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,480
I don't accept that Islam is a Brahmic. I don't

672
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,079
believe that at all. I mean, I made this argument

673
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:44,159
hundreds of times. What's up? He's having hard time connecting?

674
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:55,519
Speaker 12: Can you hear me?

675
00:43:57,519 --> 00:44:01,519
Speaker 25: I just wanted to ask. I was reading something Beluther

676
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,480
that I don't know if it's true or not. They

677
00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:08,960
it's a patron that was connected or a member of

678
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,480
the rules a Crucians.

679
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 5: As possible. I know that the second generation Lutherans like

680
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,920
Johann Andre are believed to be some of the early

681
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:24,239
founders of the Rosicrucian order, and Luther did have a

682
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,400
lot of support from the German princes. That was part

683
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,519
of the reason why he was successful. I don't think

684
00:44:29,559 --> 00:44:32,159
he could have been successful without that state support in

685
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,519
terms of Germany and the Reformation. But later Lutherans were

686
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:40,599
for sure into Roschritianism. But I would not be surprised

687
00:44:40,639 --> 00:44:43,440
that there wasn't a patron that was as well.

688
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,039
Speaker 2: Okay, I just I was just wondering.

689
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:49,519
Speaker 25: I know, I noticed he used a symbol like a

690
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:53,679
ros Acrucion symbols as a kind of signatory on documents.

691
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,079
Speaker 5: Well, that might have been his choice, though prior to

692
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,199
the order of the rosy cross using it, it's not.

693
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:03,800
I mean, you can't base the argument just on the symbol,

694
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,159
because you know, there's a rose cross that I'm sure

695
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,599
was used in Catholic churches prior to that, it would

696
00:45:10,639 --> 00:45:13,519
have been rosicrution necessarily. But I think when if you

697
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:17,480
look up the character Johann andre it does specifically become

698
00:45:17,519 --> 00:45:20,920
a Rosicrucian symbol at that point. And Luther had other

699
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,119
esoteric influences. He was influenced by the Theologia Germanica, which

700
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,480
is a kind of a Neoplatonic type text. Luther was

701
00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:34,119
influenced by nominalism as well as Neoplatonism, so there's a

702
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:36,159
lot of possibilities there. But the book to read on

703
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,079
this is Dame Francis yates book Rosicrucian Enlightenment, where she

704
00:45:41,159 --> 00:45:44,559
goes into quite a bit of detail about Johann andre As,

705
00:45:44,639 --> 00:45:53,519
the potential author of the Rosicrucian Manifesto. Time to Crusade

706
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,400
is a stream doing decent. Okay, now, maybe it's better

707
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:28,719
this way. What's up, man, I'm you Union Jose Biden.

708
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,360
Five dollars. You said Maximus taught the soul has created

709
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:36,679
an inception. I heard John Damascus teaches that we're generated

710
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,280
from Adam and all the fathers, and all of humanity

711
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:45,159
from our fathers and all humanities created within our atom.

712
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,800
Our souls are generated, not created. No, that's not true.

713
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,760
I mean there is. Maybe John Damascus was a Traducian,

714
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,719
but the same Maximus Confessor is not a Traducian. So

715
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,320
I'm not aware of the Orthodox Church holding to introductionism.

716
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,880
But I mean, I could be wrong, and I don't

717
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,000
recall off the top of my head John mask is

718
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,039
saying that. But Maximus is very clear in the ambiguity

719
00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:14,519
that the soul is created at conception Elias by two dollars?

720
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,599
Will you cover the released MLK files now? Probably not

721
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:22,840
a freem.

722
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:34,199
Speaker 2: Hello.

723
00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:35,159
Speaker 26: Can you hear me?

724
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 27: Yeah?

725
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 28: Can you hear me?

726
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah?

727
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 2: Hello?

728
00:47:41,679 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 5: Yeah? What's up?

729
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:44,119
Speaker 2: Hello?

730
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:57,039
Speaker 5: Yes, I can hear you can hear me? King anime?

731
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:05,840
I heard diary is autistic. I don't think I am.

732
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,159
I think seems like people with thetism have a hard

733
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:16,880
time with comedy and they can't tell when people are joking,

734
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,119
but probably everybody to a degree has those of the tism.

735
00:48:21,159 --> 00:48:21,480
What's up?

736
00:48:21,519 --> 00:48:21,639
Speaker 3: Man?

737
00:48:21,639 --> 00:48:24,119
Speaker 5: He got on you. You're raising your hand, I'm you.

738
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: Oh hello? Oh?

739
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:30,079
Speaker 29: So yeah.

740
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 8: I asked some questions about the Sabbath.

741
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,559
Speaker 2: So I heard, uh, I'm pretty.

742
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:37,559
Speaker 8: Sure you know sab simonies.

743
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 2: I think that's just not He was on first and Fleet.

744
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,519
Speaker 30: So the way he described the Sabbath I think was

745
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:49,280
I didn't find it satisfaction because.

746
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know what. I don't know what

747
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:57,079
he argued about the Sabbath. What's the question, So do

748
00:48:57,159 --> 00:48:57,599
you think.

749
00:48:57,639 --> 00:49:00,519
Speaker 8: Christians do have to keep the Sabbath the way it

750
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:01,679
says in the Fourth Commandment.

751
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 5: The way that it's kept is the way that the

752
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,199
New Testament the Apostles keep it, which is the first

753
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,119
day of the week is the day of the Lord

754
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,800
where the Church comes together and celebrates the liturgy. In

755
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,880
the Orthodox Church the seventh Day, the seventh Day Sabbath

756
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,880
is still kept on in the vesper's service. It's still

757
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,960
honored on Saturday. But no, as Hebrews four says, the

758
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,719
true Sabbath has been brought to us in the person

759
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,280
of Christ. So there's a superiority now to the true Sabbath,

760
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,360
which is the Christian liturgical service.

761
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 8: So would you consider that to be in a tipped

762
00:49:41,039 --> 00:49:42,159
at changing.

763
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,519
Speaker 5: Godswel No, Because Jesus is the one that gave the law.

764
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:48,159
He is God. He's the one that decides and determines

765
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:50,840
how it's kept and how it's interpreted.

766
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 8: So but when he, like, when did he ever say

767
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,079
that Jesus change his Sabbath.

768
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 5: Hebrews four explains that when Jesus came, he brought at

769
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,719
his first advent the fulfillment and the meaning of the

770
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:14,639
creation day Sabbath. Thus, the day of his resurrection is

771
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,880
the Sabbath, according to Hebrews four. And that's why the

772
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,079
Church in the Book of Acts and John in the

773
00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:22,840
Book of Revelations says, I was in the spirit on

774
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,840
the Lord's Day. That's the day of his resurrection. In

775
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,639
the Book of Acts, that's when the church meets to

776
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:35,360
have the Divine Liturgy, the Church service. That's why it's Sunday, okay.

777
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,199
Speaker 8: And you know, because I was confused on like what

778
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,280
people were saying about. They think because based.

779
00:50:41,119 --> 00:50:44,599
Speaker 30: On in Genesis when it said the evening in the morning,

780
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,039
he didn't say that at the end of the seven days.

781
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 8: So people try to.

782
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 30: Say that that's their basically their argument for thinking that

783
00:50:51,639 --> 00:50:54,280
we're in Gode now, which I thought to be very

784
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:55,239
confusing because I.

785
00:50:55,199 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 2: Don't really get that.

786
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 5: Have you not read have you read Hebrews?

787
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 30: I see the verse that Sam pointed out, So I'm

788
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,400
pretty sure the verse you're referring to.

789
00:51:05,679 --> 00:51:08,079
Speaker 5: I just think all of chapter four is about the

790
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:14,000
Sabbath being brought at Christ's first Advent. Okay, So all

791
00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:19,000
of these Jewish ceremonies, they symbolize the work and life

792
00:51:19,039 --> 00:51:21,480
of Christ and the reality that he brings at the

793
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:22,119
first Advent.

794
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: Okay.

795
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 8: And what do you think about the theocracies?

796
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,519
Speaker 30: Do you think Christians should try to establish a theocracy

797
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,840
like in the United States now?

798
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,039
Speaker 5: I think the goal is to convert people and then

799
00:51:35,199 --> 00:51:38,800
it will naturally tend towards a monarchy or an imperium

800
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,719
or theocracy. So theocracy is the biblical form of government.

801
00:51:43,039 --> 00:51:45,800
That's why the Orthodox Church throughout two thousand years has

802
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,239
always had monarchical or imperial forms of government. But it's

803
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,559
not our first and foremost duty to set up a theocracy.

804
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,840
So that's something that happens down the line as people

805
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,800
convert when you have a majority Christian Orthodox society clone card.

806
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:09,679
All right, he dropped off Vesper vesper Lend, vesper Lend.

807
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:19,320
When you're gonna debate paul Ogia, all of these people

808
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,199
can come into the chat like, I'm not chasing down

809
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,920
people with like a thousand subscribers and all these gurgus,

810
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,280
you guys, if they won't come to debate, then no,

811
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,280
I'm not gonna chase down. I have no idea who

812
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,800
Paulogia is. If they if they want to come debate,

813
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:37,599
here's the link when you go and debate Arian Heretics

814
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:40,119
six y nine four three two on YouTube. He's got

815
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:44,880
feather subscribers, he's token smack. That's what the link is for.

816
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:55,840
Dog Vesper what's up? You get to turn your mic on?

817
00:52:56,159 --> 00:52:56,599
Speaker 2: I mean.

818
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 5: Moving on, Danny? Is it Danny?

819
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:02,639
Speaker 2: Danny?

820
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 5: Donnie Akula. It's open for him. If you want to

821
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,639
request to speak, I'll bring you on. It's open debate.

822
00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:20,000
We're looking for people who would like to debate. Pologia

823
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:22,599
has a million subs. Okay, well I've never heard of Pologia.

824
00:53:22,639 --> 00:53:31,400
I have no idea who it is. Selmoxis spends fifty bucks.

825
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,159
Can you walk us through the documents from Trello and

826
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,400
the Seventh Council affirmed in terms of canon. Okay, so

827
00:53:37,639 --> 00:53:41,920
Canon eighty five of the Apostolic Canons is mentioned, it's

828
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,880
the Councils of Carthage that Trollo says specifically for the canon,

829
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,760
Canon eighty five is relevant because it's a very early

830
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,920
attestation in the Apostolic Canons to the Deutero canon being

831
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,559
part of the Bible. And so if you have the

832
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,360
or the oars Augomatic theology Palmazonski, you don't even need

833
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,039
me to walk you through it. Maybe I should make

834
00:54:03,079 --> 00:54:05,480
a video on it, because I mean he talks about

835
00:54:05,519 --> 00:54:08,679
it within the first like thirty pages. And so there's

836
00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:11,440
a whole note on the Epistolic Canons and Canon thirty five.

837
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,639
But Canon thirty five doesn't mention everything that's in our canon.

838
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,559
And that's because the Seventh Acumunical Council winner to firms Trello.

839
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,480
Trello specifically says, we are going with the Carthaginian canon,

840
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:28,440
which includes all the dudercononical texts. I'm mute, Danny, or

841
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:29,239
you want do you want to talk?

842
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 4: Or what something?

843
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:34,079
Speaker 5: Man thank you guys for all the super chants. Appreciate it.

844
00:54:34,159 --> 00:54:42,639
You guys are being generous tonight, Donnie. I'm all right, whatever,

845
00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:47,239
don't I mute? Then Bible shelf?

846
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 2: Hi, can you hear me?

847
00:54:53,559 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 9: Uh huh?

848
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:57,599
Speaker 31: So I just wanted to ask, I guess for like

849
00:54:57,679 --> 00:55:01,000
advice for someone who's a lost and it's.

850
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 12: Currently studying tag.

851
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 31: But I'm kind of just feeling like overwhelmed by all

852
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:08,039
the objections and I would I attend church, but I

853
00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:11,400
guess I'm kind of like agnostic, and I just.

854
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,159
Speaker 12: Feel like it requires such a high.

855
00:55:13,039 --> 00:55:15,679
Speaker 31: Level of philosophical knowledge and all the objections are like

856
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,800
so complex that's kind of hard to know what's true.

857
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,199
And I'm just in this like state of like not

858
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,440
knowing or like uncertainty. But then I have Christians saying, oh, well,

859
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,320
if you die upon disbelief for your you're probably gonna

860
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:28,519
go to.

861
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:31,119
Speaker 5: Help, so you know, I mean, I think the point

862
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:35,079
is that you join the Orthodox Church and become a

863
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:40,119
regular member, and you don't rest on the academic rational

864
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:42,880
side of stuff. It's not that the rational academic stuff

865
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,559
is wrong or bad, but it can't all rest on that.

866
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,760
That's like a sign pointer to the church. Yah kub,

867
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,920
what's up? Yah kub? His name is Jacob, but I'm

868
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:54,800
calling him yah kub.

869
00:55:56,199 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's up? What's up? Yep? Yeah, I followed you

870
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,440
for a long time. I really like the content, and

871
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,880
I've been reading. I've been reading more some Dogma.

872
00:56:09,639 --> 00:56:12,639
Speaker 14: I'm like six pages in and he's talking about the

873
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,599
early Christian mysteries, and I just wanted to know what

874
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,559
exactly you would say about the statements that he's giving.

875
00:56:21,679 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 2: So he will give like four hands, you.

876
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:28,519
Speaker 14: Profane, or that giving the Christian mysteries is start putting

877
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,760
a sword into the hands of a child, these kinds

878
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:32,199
and things.

879
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 5: I mean, he has a whole chapter where he talks

880
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:40,960
about that real Christianity is Neoplatonism, basically affirms originism. He says,

881
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,239
that's what the Trinity really is. So no, we don't

882
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,440
listen to Albert Pike and Neoplatonism for what Christianity is.

883
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 14: I mean, I mean, sorry, sorry, but he says, for example, Cyril,

884
00:56:53,559 --> 00:56:57,119
all right, he'll say the Lord explained in private his parables.

885
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,199
Speaker 5: That does mean what ye what he says, He's just

886
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,039
referring to the Gnostic claim that true Christianity is a

887
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,800
hidden message. But if you read here in as in

888
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,239
book three and four against Heresies, and as says that

889
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,599
there's nothing hidden in Christianity. It's all public.

890
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, I get that.

891
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 14: No, it's just been very, very crazy because you gave

892
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:27,960
like thirteen thirteen quotes by different church fatherst it all

893
00:57:28,079 --> 00:57:34,679
said that they for example, you have Totullian saying that, yeah, okay,

894
00:57:34,679 --> 00:57:35,800
if it makes sense, makes sense.

895
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 5: So the saying why go ahead, What's what are the

896
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:40,639
other quotes about?

897
00:57:41,559 --> 00:57:42,559
Speaker 2: So it's like thirteen.

898
00:57:43,239 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 14: First he starts off with Clements not initiated to Trollanto.

899
00:57:48,199 --> 00:57:50,400
Then he goes to Titullian, who's a heretic, as.

900
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 5: He said, Then Clement is a heretic too, but go ahead,

901
00:57:55,079 --> 00:57:55,840
the heretic too.

902
00:57:56,119 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 14: Then as I don't know how to say his name, sorry,

903
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:05,840
I'm uh, he says, these mysteries the church now communicates

904
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,639
to him who has passed through the introductory degree. They

905
00:58:09,679 --> 00:58:11,599
are not explained to the gentiles at all.

906
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is just all nonsense. Like when you join

907
00:58:14,119 --> 00:58:17,519
the Orthodox Church, there's no secret inner gnostic teaching that

908
00:58:17,559 --> 00:58:21,480
the Orthodox Church passes on to the Gnostic inner elite.

909
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,360
That's why the whole purpose of rols and dogma. Is

910
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,639
that Albert probably is saying, you, you know what people

911
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:31,440
call Christianity and the Orthodox Churches or the Catholic Church,

912
00:58:32,039 --> 00:58:34,440
that's not real Christianity. That's for the profane. I have

913
00:58:34,599 --> 00:58:37,039
the real secrets. That's just a sleight of hand trick.

914
00:58:37,679 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 27: Oh yeah, absolutely, it's social pride.

915
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I'm a Christian tioper.

916
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:43,639
Speaker 5: So what's what's the quest?

917
00:58:43,639 --> 00:58:46,079
Speaker 14: I don't understand what I'm just I'm just confused because

918
00:58:46,079 --> 00:58:48,760
I'm trying to find out how to how to interpret

919
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:49,960
these quotes.

920
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,559
Speaker 2: But these early church fathers.

921
00:58:52,719 --> 00:58:55,199
Speaker 14: As for example, you will have Saint Basil. He's saying,

922
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,320
this is what the initiated. I'm not permitted to contemplate

923
00:58:58,519 --> 00:58:59,280
at the mysteries.

924
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this is part of the Orthodox tradition

925
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,239
that you don't speak of the mysteries to those outside

926
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,559
because they don't understand it, they're not going to believe it.

927
00:59:10,239 --> 00:59:12,920
And that's why in the Orthodox Church it is called mystagogy.

928
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:16,960
It is a mystical teaching. But mysteries does not mean

929
00:59:17,239 --> 00:59:21,079
Albert Pike's ancient pagan mysteries. It means the mysteries of

930
00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:27,159
the Christian revelation, which are not always forever hidden. They

931
00:59:27,199 --> 00:59:30,840
are mysteries that are revealed to the initiated. That's why

932
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:35,960
baptism is called the right of initiation in Christianity. Let

933
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,400
me give you another example. When you're baptized, you're called

934
00:59:38,519 --> 00:59:42,079
illumined or enlightened. That doesn't mean you're an enlightenment member

935
00:59:42,079 --> 00:59:43,960
of the Illuminati because you're baptized.

936
00:59:44,719 --> 00:59:47,519
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

937
00:59:47,559 --> 00:59:51,559
Speaker 14: I didn't know about the mysteries not being talked about openly.

938
00:59:51,239 --> 00:59:51,679
Speaker 2: In that way.

939
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 5: Well, in the Early Church and the liturgy, for example,

940
00:59:54,639 --> 00:59:57,159
it says, you know, I will not when we do

941
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,000
the communion prayer, we say I will not speak of

942
00:59:59,039 --> 01:00:02,039
thy mysteries to thine enemy. And the church says in

943
01:00:02,159 --> 01:00:05,440
the liturgy, let the catechumans depart, let no catechumens remain.

944
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,960
That's because in the Early Church there was persecution and

945
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,840
the Empire would send spies into the churches and lie

946
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,480
about them and say, oh, they're actually engaging in human sacrifice.

947
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:19,360
And if you spoke about the mysteries outside the church,

948
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:25,079
you could potentially have the church uh busted up because

949
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:26,000
they're in the catacombs.

950
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he mentions this too. Yeah.

951
01:00:29,039 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 5: He mentions that, Yeah, okay, but that doesn't prove Albert

952
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:38,760
Pike's secret gnostic teaching of true Christianity. In the premac Lodges, you.

953
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 14: Want to hear something funny, right right right after he

954
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:47,320
says this, he goes over the assasination of Charms o'haram

955
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,480
and he says, literally he says it.

956
01:00:50,519 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 27: Then he says, the edaculation at his grave was repeated

957
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:54,400
three times.

958
01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 5: So what, I don't know what you're saying.

959
01:00:56,599 --> 01:01:03,079
Speaker 14: Theulation echaculation of who of the three of the three

960
01:01:03,159 --> 01:01:05,239
Masons that were trying to resurrect him.

961
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 5: I didn't know he said that. That's funny.

962
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, No one talked about it.

963
01:01:12,159 --> 01:01:14,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's interesting. I've never found anybody

964
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,280
until I read that chapter on what he thinks Christianity

965
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,679
really is in terms of the trinity that he says,

966
01:01:20,679 --> 01:01:23,400
it's just neoplatonism. I've never heard anybody talk about that either.

967
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:34,719
Speaker 4: Let's let me pull up the Appstot Cannons and it's

968
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:35,360
eighty five.

969
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:46,639
Speaker 2: Hello, yes, sir, Yeah, I just want to ask you.

970
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 32: So I used to be a Catholic, but I've since

971
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,639
become an agnostic, So I want to ask you, what's

972
01:01:53,719 --> 01:01:56,800
the basis for creashu ex lehilo.

973
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 5: Well, the only basis is that it's divine revelation. And

974
01:02:01,679 --> 01:02:05,199
I mean, you could make some philosophical arguments about the

975
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:10,239
need for the philosophy of time itself requiring a beginning, middle,

976
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,920
and an end for meaning. That would be kind of

977
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,920
a more roundabout transcendental argument, because if everything is just

978
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,760
say eternal return, or if everything is pure it just

979
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:27,000
caustant cyclical return, then it would be very difficult to

980
01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:31,719
have differentiation, succession, change, et cetera. Everything would be an

981
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:35,119
eternal in eternal stasis. So those are some things that

982
01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:39,079
could point to the need philosophically for a beginning, but

983
01:02:39,239 --> 01:02:42,599
not necessarily x neilo. Xnilo is a doctrine that's based

984
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:43,519
on divine revelation.

985
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 32: Okay, so I would have posit if I would have

986
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:53,400
posit that there's literally creation itself, but there was now

987
01:02:53,519 --> 01:02:54,440
beginning and new end.

988
01:02:54,639 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 5: So that's what I just said. So, if everything is

989
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,719
at any if everything is an eternal return, what's the

990
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,880
basis for beginning, middle, and end, which is how all

991
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:09,280
human communication, sentence structure language works. If you don't have beginning, middle,

992
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,079
and end, how do you have communication?

993
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's what you're alluding to.

994
01:03:17,719 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 27: I suppose it's it's divinely audience.

995
01:03:20,679 --> 01:03:22,239
Speaker 32: It's it just came into being.

996
01:03:22,719 --> 01:03:25,519
Speaker 5: Or did you hear anything of what I said? So

997
01:03:25,599 --> 01:03:27,519
you're not going to answer anything that I said. You're

998
01:03:27,559 --> 01:03:29,840
going to go back to stating what the problem is?

999
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,679
Speaker 2: Okay, what what? What did you say? Can you refrase it?

1000
01:03:37,199 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 5: So I took you to say that if there's not

1001
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,599
x nilo, then everything is just eternal, right, the created

1002
01:03:44,719 --> 01:03:48,440
order or this world, it's all just eternal, right, So

1003
01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:50,639
there's not beginning, there's not beginning, middle.

1004
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:50,719
Speaker 26: And end.

1005
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,559
Speaker 5: Everything is just an eternal return or an oral burrows

1006
01:03:53,639 --> 01:03:58,840
ever eating itself right yep? Okay, Well, if there's not beginning, middle,

1007
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:03,559
and end, then sentences aren't possible because sentences and language

1008
01:04:03,679 --> 01:04:08,440
universally in the human domain require beginning, middle, and end.

1009
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,239
So that suggests to me that the way that humans

1010
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,880
are constituted and experienced time is as a beginning, middle,

1011
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,639
and end. But that would be illusory if there's no

1012
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:24,960
such thing as beginning, middle, and end. So you're collapsing

1013
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:28,719
time into eternity, and that would make knowledge and communication impossible.

1014
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,519
Speaker 2: But why would it be impossible because.

1015
01:04:33,239 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 5: Of what I just said. Did you not hear anything

1016
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,880
I said, Yeah, I did.

1017
01:04:37,079 --> 01:04:40,639
Speaker 32: But before the sentence they were silence, right, and before

1018
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:42,800
silence there was a sentence preceding that.

1019
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 5: So before and after then that's not eternal return, that's time.

1020
01:04:52,079 --> 01:04:53,800
What you said is eternally.

1021
01:04:55,199 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, e tanty in time.

1022
01:04:58,199 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 32: So I know it's a bit of a paradox, but

1023
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:02,159
the continues.

1024
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 5: Oh so you're allowed to have well, you're allowed paradoxes

1025
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:10,360
by creation. Next, Neilo is crazy. All right, you're not

1026
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,039
You're not even listening, so we're moving on. Uh, let's

1027
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:14,880
see Ben m.

1028
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:30,599
Speaker 33: Okay, Okay, hello, yep, hey Jay, you're going to question

1029
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,320
about Orthodox Church history.

1030
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 5: Okay, in the history.

1031
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 12: Do you know in the history when.

1032
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 34: In the history of the Orthodox Church was the advent

1033
01:05:41,119 --> 01:05:43,280
of choosing saint names among laity?

1034
01:05:44,199 --> 01:05:44,639
Speaker 4: I don't.

1035
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 34: I'm assuming that was probably the result of people having

1036
01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:53,119
names that like diverged from biblical names, and I wonder

1037
01:05:53,159 --> 01:05:56,440
if that would be constitute an evolution on the practice

1038
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:57,480
of the church tradition.

1039
01:05:58,119 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 5: Well, in the old estimate you have people being given

1040
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,679
new names. For example, Abram becomes Abraham. Can you mute

1041
01:06:05,719 --> 01:06:10,840
for a second one. Yep, all right, so Sarah Sarah,

1042
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:16,639
I becomes Sarah. So the basis is in the mind

1043
01:06:16,719 --> 01:06:19,400
of I'm sure the early Christians, the Bible and divine

1044
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,840
revelation and the history of the Hebrews. I don't think

1045
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:26,119
it was just willy nearly done. There's plenty of saints

1046
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:29,320
in the early Church who have pagan names who become saints.

1047
01:06:29,679 --> 01:06:31,559
So I don't think there was any idea that if

1048
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:34,079
you had a pagan name you had to change it

1049
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,679
necessarily because you were a Christian. It had to do

1050
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:41,960
with the idea of patron saints and saints interceding, which

1051
01:06:42,039 --> 01:06:44,920
is very early in the tradition of the Church. But

1052
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:50,079
just because the tradition emerges as universal eventually, that doesn't

1053
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:55,039
that doesn't prove doctrinal development, because we don't have a

1054
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:58,960
problem with little tea traditions happening over time. And obviously

1055
01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:01,360
it's quite natural that if there's going to be a

1056
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,360
saint who dies in the fifth, sixth, seventh century, they're

1057
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:06,159
not going to be saints in the first, second, or

1058
01:07:06,199 --> 01:07:09,519
third century because they don't exist yet. That's not development

1059
01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:13,800
of doctrine. That's the application of the basics of dogma

1060
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:18,159
to specific situations. So, for example, canon law, if you

1061
01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:21,519
see up on the screen, this is the Apostolic canons,

1062
01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:25,719
and these are ideas and rules about church law that

1063
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:30,280
have some kind of flexibility over time. But that flexibility

1064
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,760
over time does not translate into doctrinal development. It's just

1065
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:39,159
simply the Church using the static, unchanging principles of theology

1066
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,960
and applying them to the needs of the time or

1067
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:43,320
in specific locations.

1068
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha, thanks, Yeah, it's actually.

1069
01:07:49,679 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 5: A really good question. Also, people should keep in mind

1070
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,480
that when we look at the first, second, third, fourth

1071
01:07:56,559 --> 01:08:00,440
century of the Church, there's a lot of fighting that

1072
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,599
we have, but there's also a lot of things we

1073
01:08:02,719 --> 01:08:05,559
don't know, and so a lot of things are in

1074
01:08:05,679 --> 01:08:11,239
a sense shrouded and silence in certain areas. You know,

1075
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,639
there's places where Christianity went and we don't know what

1076
01:08:13,679 --> 01:08:17,640
happened to Christianity in that region. There's churches and nations

1077
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,880
even that don't exist anymore. So a lot of these

1078
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:22,800
things we can't just go like look up and see.

1079
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:24,840
You know, there's a lot when it comes to like

1080
01:08:25,039 --> 01:08:30,720
ancient textual analysis or ancient archaeology at you know, Christian

1081
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:36,319
sites or catacombs. There's a level of guesswork that scholars

1082
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:39,399
engage in because we don't know everything. Now, that doesn't

1083
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:42,319
mean we know nothing. I'm just saying that there's a

1084
01:08:42,399 --> 01:08:44,079
lot we don't know. There's a lot we do know,

1085
01:08:44,239 --> 01:08:49,039
but also a lot that we don't know. Jacob. Now, guys,

1086
01:08:49,079 --> 01:08:51,319
we're looking for people that disagree. I don't mind taking

1087
01:08:51,359 --> 01:08:53,520
all the FAQs and all this stuff, but I look

1088
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,520
for people that disagree. If you do, you go to

1089
01:08:55,560 --> 01:09:09,159
the headline what's up, Jacob, George Apocalypse Rising twenty bucks.

1090
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:11,760
Happy to see you still debating on the smooth Brains.

1091
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:14,239
Keep it up, Jay. Also, I believe Bankers on the

1092
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:18,520
Dance Floor is your greatest work. Hey, you're in the minority.

1093
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:20,399
There are not many people seem to really. I think

1094
01:09:21,079 --> 01:09:25,439
that's a classic cringe core work. I wish it would

1095
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,680
have gotten more exposure. It seems like people would have

1096
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,960
really liked that one. But Dyersburg, Tennessee vols fan three

1097
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,960
dollars thank you for exposing Bertrand Russell. In the recent

1098
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,000
segment on Lord Voldemore, the mainstream media does not ever

1099
01:09:38,159 --> 01:09:42,119
mention the dark side and portrays him as this pacist intellectual. Yeah,

1100
01:09:42,119 --> 01:09:44,079
that's the cover that he had. He had the cover

1101
01:09:44,199 --> 01:09:47,479
of being this democratic, pacifist intellectual, but he's a con

1102
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:51,279
seething hatred for humanity exactly intrinsic, in distinctive. Ten dollars

1103
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,479
brought U you have shop mind? I need a haircut.

1104
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,520
I actually almost got a haircut today, but we just

1105
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:58,560
didn't have time. And I'm eager to get a haircut.

1106
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:00,079
That's why I keep wearing hats, because I'm going my

1107
01:10:00,119 --> 01:10:03,359
haircut yet. So as soon as I have time, I

1108
01:10:04,039 --> 01:10:06,399
promise you I'll get a haircut. Y'all keep sending them

1109
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,600
super chats, I'll have money to go to head on

1110
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:13,960
over to superclips or supercuts or fantastic SAMs or whatever

1111
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:20,520
it is. Inquiry or five dollars? What are the questions

1112
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:23,760
that you're Protestant or Catholic priests weren't able to answer?

1113
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,840
I think I mentioned previously this question about the Protestants.

1114
01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:29,600
I read a lot of Augustine, I wrote a lot

1115
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:34,199
of Cyprian. I was taking classes from Protestant professors. They

1116
01:10:34,279 --> 01:10:36,840
couldn't answer my questions. From City of God, I read

1117
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:40,119
the entire City of God. Of course, the Protestant professors

1118
01:10:40,159 --> 01:10:43,039
had never read it. So I had all this quote

1119
01:10:43,119 --> 01:10:45,199
mine from the City of God. And then I read

1120
01:10:45,279 --> 01:10:49,720
the anti Pelagian Antidonatus works and they couldn't answer any

1121
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:51,319
of those either. They had never read those works.

1122
01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:55,359
Speaker 12: And so.

1123
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 5: The Catholic priests, I mean I over the years talked

1124
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:06,039
a lot of Catholic priests Novasorto priests, SSPX priest said

1125
01:11:06,079 --> 01:11:10,479
of a conscious priests, and I mean you could probably

1126
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,000
the questions that they couldn't answer are all the ones

1127
01:11:13,039 --> 01:11:15,119
that you see me posing to the Roman Catholics all

1128
01:11:15,159 --> 01:11:18,920
the time. Jojo one night and you ran from a baby? Yes, yes,

1129
01:11:19,159 --> 01:11:21,079
I ran because there was a baby in the background.

1130
01:11:21,239 --> 01:11:24,319
Totally m l k z d k.

1131
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 2: Oh.

1132
01:11:26,039 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 5: Here we go.

1133
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 35: Go ahead, Hey, Jay, thank you for the species that

1134
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:53,439
you're hosting. My question is I'm an Orthodox Christian myself.

1135
01:11:53,279 --> 01:11:56,079
Speaker 5: And are you or are you Oriental Orthox.

1136
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,399
Speaker 2: I'm an Oriental Orthodox.

1137
01:11:59,119 --> 01:12:02,399
Speaker 5: Christ You're not Orthodox in the sense that we are

1138
01:12:03,159 --> 01:12:04,079
Eastern Orthodox.

1139
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 2: I have not, yeah, but I have really benefited both from.

1140
01:12:10,039 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 35: Eastern Orthodox and Orthodox Oriental Orthodox theologians over the years,

1141
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,079
my favorite being doctor Jini.

1142
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:25,600
Speaker 2: Constantino on Ancient Phiz Radio. But my question is.

1143
01:12:28,239 --> 01:12:33,159
Speaker 35: I have a difficulty understanding the difference between in terms

1144
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:39,159
of dogmatic differences our understanding of Jesus Christ between amongst

1145
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:43,520
Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

1146
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,119
Speaker 5: So we're doing a whole series on this. Got to

1147
01:12:46,159 --> 01:12:49,560
my channel Oriental Ordoxy your futa. We've done two installments,

1148
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,199
we plan to do about ten mm. Have you watched those?

1149
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 2: No idea?

1150
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,399
Speaker 5: Okay, so go watch those because they're about three hours each.

1151
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,399
Clead us, Do you want to try again? No way,

1152
01:13:00,399 --> 01:13:03,520
I already went to you, mynnuel or re l.

1153
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 36: Hello, yep, So I wanted to ask you, like, I

1154
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:23,640
guess two questions, one about tag and one about Islam.

1155
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 12: Is that fine?

1156
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:26,199
Speaker 2: Okay?

1157
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 8: So I guess my My question.

1158
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:34,800
Speaker 29: About TAG is I understand that there are preconditions that

1159
01:13:35,359 --> 01:13:40,960
like knowledge and logic, but I don't really understand, like

1160
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:45,439
how why is there necessity to ground those things? Can

1161
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,000
we just say like they just exists because of the

1162
01:13:49,079 --> 01:13:50,840
impossibility of the country.

1163
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:51,359
Speaker 2: Or something like that.

1164
01:13:52,119 --> 01:13:54,239
Speaker 5: Now, if you read the Manion paper explains why that

1165
01:13:54,359 --> 01:13:58,239
doesn't achieve grounding. So just because it doesn't appear that

1166
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:01,000
there's any other way to exp playing things without that

1167
01:14:01,199 --> 01:14:03,800
or to make sense of the world, that doesn't lead

1168
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,920
to the justification that it is the case because maybe

1169
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:08,640
it just appears to us or maybe it's just part

1170
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:11,279
of our mental schema that that's how the world is,

1171
01:14:11,359 --> 01:14:13,279
But that doesn't tell us that the world actually is

1172
01:14:13,399 --> 01:14:15,479
that way. So, in other words, it's not enough to

1173
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:19,479
get to justification just to say by possibility. Contrary, you

1174
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,600
need you need a positive worldview that goes along with that.

1175
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:24,960
And that's the point of the Manion paper is that

1176
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,880
only Christian theism posits and explains the basis for all

1177
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:35,359
of these things, transcetional categories, metaphysical categories, causation, telos tellos.

1178
01:14:36,239 --> 01:14:38,640
So when you say why does it need to be grounded?

1179
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,119
I mean that's a fundamental misunderstanding of like, well, if

1180
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:43,920
it doesn't have to be grounded, then nobody has to

1181
01:14:44,119 --> 01:14:49,399
ground anything. Okay, I mean if you don't have to

1182
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:52,319
ground it, that's like in the Matt Dill Hunty debate, like, Okay,

1183
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,920
then I don't then I don't have God exists, I

1184
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:55,560
don't have to ground it.

1185
01:14:56,399 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 27: Okay, Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And is it I

1186
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,039
just I would say, uh, is it?

1187
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,359
Speaker 29: Is it like this sort of thing where it's like, oh, well,

1188
01:15:08,399 --> 01:15:11,760
I'm seeing this thing and then necessary for grounding, and

1189
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,760
I see this other puzzle piece and they fit right?

1190
01:15:16,239 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 2: Is it like this?

1191
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 27: Is it like two puzzle pieces, like they just fit together?

1192
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:21,039
Speaker 8: Like?

1193
01:15:21,159 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 5: No, it's all the transcendental categories that are necessary for

1194
01:15:24,079 --> 01:15:28,520
the possibility predication. They all require and necessitate and presuppose

1195
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:33,439
one another. So, you know, to have knowledge presupposes a

1196
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:39,720
knowwheer uh. To have knowledge presupposes time, determination, beginning, middle,

1197
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,199
and end. To have knowledge presupposes an external world presupposes

1198
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:48,279
laws of logic and meaningful sentences like and those things

1199
01:15:48,319 --> 01:15:49,920
don't stand alone. They all require each other.

1200
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 29: Yeah, yeah, no, But my question is like how do

1201
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,359
you get from like these preconditions and grounding them to

1202
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,039
like an Eastern for the conception of God.

1203
01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 5: I mean I've done this a million times, like because

1204
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:09,000
the only the Christian theistic system posits the metaphysics that

1205
01:16:09,359 --> 01:16:12,600
are required for those things to be grounded, all right,

1206
01:16:13,039 --> 01:16:15,520
and divine conceptualism is a big part of that. And

1207
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,279
you can go check out my videos on that. Uh,

1208
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:28,279
Eli Jojo, you ran from a baby four ninety nine,

1209
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,319
you were destroyed by Google, got got priso exactly. I

1210
01:16:31,359 --> 01:16:35,720
couldn't take it. Uh, it was really just the loud noise.

1211
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,640
I'm not anti baby, It's just I couldn't hear what

1212
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:43,279
the guy what I was saying because the baby cap squelching.

1213
01:16:45,239 --> 01:16:48,319
I just saw a membership. James David Flood became a member.

1214
01:16:48,399 --> 01:16:52,520
Shout out, what's up, James David Flood, Eli you want

1215
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:53,000
I'm mute?

1216
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:55,600
Speaker 2: Hey, do you hear me?

1217
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,640
Speaker 37: I had a question on the veneration of saying, I

1218
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:05,319
get this, asked a lot from my family because they're

1219
01:17:05,319 --> 01:17:09,479
still Protestants and I'm just now converting to wordsidoxy, how

1220
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:14,199
do you respond to when Protestants say, hey, the Bible has.

1221
01:17:14,159 --> 01:17:16,239
Speaker 2: Specifically mentioned the veneration of saints.

1222
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,039
Speaker 12: You know, therefore it could be a bad, bad thing

1223
01:17:19,119 --> 01:17:19,560
that you're doing.

1224
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 5: I mean, they're venerated and honored when they're in heaven

1225
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:29,359
and Revelation five through nine, the bones of Elisha raised

1226
01:17:29,359 --> 01:17:31,680
people from the dead, so they're obviously honored by God

1227
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:36,000
because they're endued with the power to resurrect people. Cloths

1228
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:37,880
are taken from Paul's body in the Book of Acts

1229
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,000
to heal people and cast out demons, so God has

1230
01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:44,279
indued those physical objects and the body of Paul with

1231
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:46,760
a divine power, which in the Book of Thessalonians he

1232
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:49,359
says is the dunamus, or the energy or power of

1233
01:17:49,399 --> 01:17:53,159
God within him. So God honors his saints and his people.

1234
01:17:54,079 --> 01:17:57,079
God honored the Virgin Mary by entering into her womb

1235
01:17:57,279 --> 01:18:00,960
and denifying her and calling her queen of heaven and

1236
01:18:01,039 --> 01:18:04,359
relation twelve. So God honors the saints. Why wouldn't we

1237
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:10,159
honor those that God honors? Gosh, I appreciate you, man, sure, yeah.

1238
01:18:10,279 --> 01:18:12,279
Just go look up all those texts and then show

1239
01:18:12,319 --> 01:18:19,880
those to your Protestant friends. Does anyone disagree? I mean,

1240
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,399
I'm not mad at you, guys, just like I see

1241
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,560
a bunch of Orthodox people who are cate of humans

1242
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:27,960
and people with questions, and those are people who disagree.

1243
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,000
If you want to come on to me. If you disagree,

1244
01:18:31,039 --> 01:18:43,039
just please make arguments. Hey, ha tayo. Two pounds jaydagree Jamie, Hey,

1245
01:18:43,159 --> 01:18:46,119
Jamie doubles press all time for Jay. According to JV

1246
01:18:46,279 --> 01:18:51,239
Free two dollars word Gabe k ten bucks Jay, as

1247
01:18:51,279 --> 01:18:53,600
you see martyrs in two thousand and eight, have not

1248
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:58,560
seen that. I'll have to check that out. Grip D.

1249
01:18:58,720 --> 01:18:59,680
You want I mute? What's up?

1250
01:19:10,079 --> 01:19:12,119
Speaker 12: So he said the words soul.

1251
01:19:12,279 --> 01:19:14,319
Speaker 21: What is what is soul defined as.

1252
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 5: Like s O L E or s O U L?

1253
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:20,159
Speaker 12: Is there a difference?

1254
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:22,399
Speaker 5: Are you joking?

1255
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 2: No, I'm not joking at all.

1256
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:25,600
Speaker 12: Is there a difference?

1257
01:19:26,079 --> 01:19:28,159
Speaker 5: No, there's no difference between the words soul s O

1258
01:19:28,319 --> 01:19:29,800
L E and the word soul s O U L.

1259
01:19:30,079 --> 01:19:41,880
There's literally no difference. Steven, what's up? And as sstro

1260
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:47,479
of five bucks? Do your best Matthew McConaughey impression. Well, actually,

1261
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,560
Matthew McConaughey, doesn't he fancy himself some kind of evangelical

1262
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:54,159
Let's see what would Matthew McConaughey when he reads the

1263
01:19:54,279 --> 01:19:58,760
first Timothy three. Let's let's see how you would read it. Nah,

1264
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,920
these things, these things I write to you, though I

1265
01:20:03,079 --> 01:20:07,279
come to you shortly, if I am delayed. I write

1266
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,039
so that you may know how you ought to conduct

1267
01:20:11,119 --> 01:20:13,920
yourself in the House of God, which is.

1268
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 4: Church, living God, pillar and ground of truth.

1269
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:22,279
Speaker 5: That's first Timothy theory. How's that I'm still a little

1270
01:20:23,119 --> 01:20:27,039
uh sinus, See, so my impressions are not exactly right.

1271
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 9: Uh?

1272
01:20:28,319 --> 01:20:31,600
Speaker 4: If I've got some sinusy things going on, Stephen, you

1273
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:32,199
want I mute?

1274
01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 5: What's up? I don't understand the people who come on

1275
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:41,920
and they never unmute, Like, what what was the purpose?

1276
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,239
Speaker 4: Are you there? Stephen?

1277
01:20:47,119 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 5: You have to turn your mic on if you're gonna

1278
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:58,359
come speak on a microphone. Elon sees, Kyle, my ologies

1279
01:20:58,359 --> 01:20:59,880
is drawing me crazy to they too on top of

1280
01:21:00,159 --> 01:21:02,239
the trees are on the juniper trees are on attack.

1281
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:08,760
They're an attack. Elon sees something. What's up?

1282
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:24,399
Speaker 38: I'm mute, hey, Jamie, Jamie, and he an espresso. I'm mute, dude, Jamie,

1283
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:27,760
I'm singing that song.

1284
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,039
Speaker 5: Could you met me? An expresso? Not an espresso, an

1285
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:37,239
X expresso? Thank you, dog. You don't want to talk,

1286
01:21:37,319 --> 01:21:38,520
You just want to sit there. What's up?

1287
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:38,720
Speaker 4: Man?

1288
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:45,520
Speaker 5: Elon wanna try again? Elon sees Kyle, here we go.

1289
01:21:46,119 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 4: Can you hear me?

1290
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:48,960
Speaker 2: Took a while to show up?

1291
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,239
Speaker 39: Sorry, Hey, I just want to pick your brain on

1292
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:56,000
the topic of a humanism, because I hear you talking

1293
01:21:56,039 --> 01:21:58,800
about it now and then, and it seems to be

1294
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:02,479
like a negative thing that we should, at least in

1295
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,840
your view, that we shouldn't be doing as Orthodox Christians.

1296
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 2: Christians.

1297
01:22:07,239 --> 01:22:11,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a compromising obviously of the ancient tradition and

1298
01:22:11,199 --> 01:22:14,960
the doctrine of the Body of Christ, ecclesiology, all of

1299
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,680
those things are compromised, you know. I mean they can

1300
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:21,520
say you can't go and pray in the synagogues and

1301
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,520
the and the temples of the heretics.

1302
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 39: Yeah, and I agree with that, but I kind of

1303
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:33,359
view that as I guess you could count as a humanism.

1304
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:38,239
But I thought humanism was more defined as regards to

1305
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:45,720
other groups of Christians like Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox getting together

1306
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:46,640
on certain things.

1307
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,279
Speaker 2: And obviously we've no it has.

1308
01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:53,520
Speaker 5: To do with violating the canonical boundaries of the Church

1309
01:22:54,279 --> 01:22:59,720
through public liturgical actions, ceremonies, et cetera. That's how it's defined.

1310
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:04,039
So you know, can there be some pro life thing

1311
01:23:04,199 --> 01:23:07,800
where Catholics and Orthodox work together, Sure, that's not a cumenism.

1312
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:14,239
Communism is specifically about public divine worship. I mean it

1313
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,920
could also be like you write a book where you

1314
01:23:17,039 --> 01:23:19,520
say something like, oh, we all have the same faith,

1315
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:22,199
we're all one church. I mean, it's not just liturgically,

1316
01:23:22,359 --> 01:23:25,840
because it's also theologically. If you were to deny something,

1317
01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:27,680
you know, in terms of the profession of faith, that

1318
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:28,840
would also count.

1319
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:36,199
Speaker 39: Right and what abound in regards to praying together like

1320
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:37,680
outside of church.

1321
01:23:38,119 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 5: Well, you can pray and they can join with you,

1322
01:23:40,279 --> 01:23:43,760
but we're not supposed to join in the services of others.

1323
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:47,560
Then that's the canonical strictures that I mentioned. But thank

1324
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,600
you for that. Anybody disagree, you go to the have

1325
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:58,960
the line Wesley cards two dollars. Yeah, the words are

1326
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:01,680
the same. Hence old food so o l e food.

1327
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:03,600
That would be like when you eat the sole of

1328
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:06,720
your shoe. Because of course there's no difference between the

1329
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,279
word soul s O l e and the word soul

1330
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:15,079
s o U l. What's the difference, Wesley?

1331
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 36: Yes, how do you do?

1332
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 8: Wesley?

1333
01:24:18,119 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 2: Curry?

1334
01:24:19,399 --> 01:24:24,199
Speaker 5: Okay, what's up? Do you've got curry Broda? You've got

1335
01:24:24,239 --> 01:24:28,720
good foods there? You make a d what curry?

1336
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 32: This says?

1337
01:24:30,039 --> 01:24:36,159
Speaker 2: Look like a seven eleven? I look on six days ago.

1338
01:24:36,199 --> 01:24:40,560
Speaker 40: I prayed to Jesus Christ. I only pray to Jesus Christ,

1339
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:43,960
and no other name do I pray. I pray to

1340
01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:46,319
Jesus who appear to you all and told you to.

1341
01:24:46,359 --> 01:24:48,600
Speaker 2: Tell the vision. Tell the vision. You shall not need

1342
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:49,000
the market.

1343
01:24:49,399 --> 01:24:53,399
Speaker 40: My career was that six days ago we give everybody

1344
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:54,600
on earth bread.

1345
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 2: Now those of you that sad, so we got only.

1346
01:25:00,359 --> 01:25:08,359
Speaker 5: Are going to goodbye Schizo, goodbye skitso right, enjoy Shukri Shukri.

1347
01:25:14,239 --> 01:25:16,159
I'm mute. I'm mute, dude.

1348
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 2: Mm hmm maybe mm hmmm.

1349
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:23,560
Speaker 19: Uh the connection is a little bit bad.

1350
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 10: But I have a question, Okay, are besides Christology other

1351
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:32,960
problematic differences between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox?

1352
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,239
Speaker 2: And does the Oriental as our church have valid priesthood.

1353
01:25:38,079 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 5: I don't know what valid is an ambiguous term because

1354
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:43,520
we don't think that it even matters. The ritual could

1355
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:46,119
be done right, they might be received by vesting, but

1356
01:25:46,279 --> 01:25:50,079
the grace of the rights doesn't return until they return

1357
01:25:50,159 --> 01:25:54,199
to Orthodoxy. So uh yeah, I mean there, We're doing

1358
01:25:54,239 --> 01:25:56,079
a whole series. Go watch the series that we're doing

1359
01:25:56,159 --> 01:25:58,560
on this. This is not Oriental Q and a Night.

1360
01:25:59,119 --> 01:26:02,560
We've done two lectures that are multi hours long about

1361
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,479
or into Orthodoxy, and we're going to do seven more.

1362
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:09,399
It's just gonna take time. If you have a question,

1363
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,079
you can come on request to speak, but I'm looking

1364
01:26:13,079 --> 01:26:15,159
for people who disagree who would like to come up.

1365
01:26:15,239 --> 01:26:18,000
If you're a Protestant, if you're a Roman Catholic, if

1366
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,079
you're a premillennial, dispensationalist, if you're a Muslim, if you're

1367
01:26:21,079 --> 01:26:22,800
a Gnostic, if you're a Mormon, if you're an atheist,

1368
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:26,000
if you're a Hebrew Roots supporter of any kind, You're

1369
01:26:26,039 --> 01:26:28,039
welcome to request to speak, and I'll bring you up.

1370
01:26:28,119 --> 01:26:30,720
You can ask your questions or you can make an argument.

1371
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:32,760
You can speak for as long as you'd like, if

1372
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:36,359
you'd like to debate within reason. Oxios.

1373
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 2: Hello, Yeah, Okay, So I had this question.

1374
01:26:46,039 --> 01:26:47,520
Speaker 27: I couldn't really get an astron on Google.

1375
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 28: But in the Old Testament, when God heartened Pharaoh's heart,

1376
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:55,119
I'm not sure exactly how to understand that, probably because

1377
01:26:55,119 --> 01:26:57,159
it's it sounds like the.

1378
01:26:57,239 --> 01:26:59,640
Speaker 5: Other passage explains how he hearted it. It says he

1379
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,199
hardened it by allowing Pharaoh to hearten his own heart.

1380
01:27:02,319 --> 01:27:05,319
So the two passages together give you the clue as

1381
01:27:05,359 --> 01:27:07,119
to how it occurs. And you have the same thing

1382
01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:10,560
with David taking the census. One passage says God moved

1383
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:12,960
David to take a census, which was a great sin,

1384
01:27:13,359 --> 01:27:16,319
and the other passage and the other historical book says

1385
01:27:16,359 --> 01:27:20,039
that Satan moved David to take a census. So, just

1386
01:27:20,159 --> 01:27:22,680
like with Pharaoh, the way that God allowed. That was

1387
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:25,800
allowing Satan to attempt David in that way. So that's

1388
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:29,399
how that happens. It's a boat and cleat us again.

1389
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:37,119
Speaker 2: Hey, what's up, Jay, I'm back again. Remind me of

1390
01:27:37,119 --> 01:27:37,720
what we're talking about.

1391
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 23: I forgot it was about rebaptism. You kind of unlocked

1392
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:43,800
me because of the way I'm just not used to.

1393
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:47,640
Speaker 2: I guess what youcked me? Mental?

1394
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:48,199
Speaker 5: Does that mean?

1395
01:27:49,119 --> 01:27:51,800
Speaker 23: Sunlock is like, let's say you hit like a goat

1396
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:54,520
with like I don't know, a ball, you know.

1397
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 2: How like goats faint?

1398
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:57,520
Speaker 4: Goats faint?

1399
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:00,159
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen like YouTube.

1400
01:28:00,039 --> 01:28:02,560
Speaker 23: Videos of goats fainting? They like get stun locked and

1401
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:06,920
they just like tip over? No, okay, well that's a term.

1402
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:10,359
Speaker 5: I mean. Also, I'm gonna go subscribe to the goat

1403
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:13,399
fainting channels when we get off it here, But go ahead.

1404
01:28:14,319 --> 01:28:18,000
Speaker 23: Well, so I just I basically I wanted to because

1405
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:19,960
I don't know. I am a cate of human but

1406
01:28:20,199 --> 01:28:24,800
but right, I'm not fully orthodox yet, I guess you know.

1407
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 2: I hope that's valid.

1408
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 5: I have a video on this if you could just

1409
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,880
type into YouTube the question of rebaptism.

1410
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 12: So is that.

1411
01:28:34,199 --> 01:28:36,560
Speaker 5: Okay, it's not it's not ethic. I'm not to be mean,

1412
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:37,680
it's just it's not ethic.

1413
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,399
Speaker 23: You nine, well, no, I guess I understand that too,

1414
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:44,840
but I mean I so basically it's kind of question

1415
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:48,079
of what is the lesser of two evils? If that

1416
01:28:48,159 --> 01:28:51,439
makes sense, And because everywhere there's problems.

1417
01:28:51,239 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 5: With you know, I don't understand what you're talking. What's

1418
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:54,760
the lesser between what?

1419
01:28:56,319 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 23: Well, so if there are inconsistencies slightly in all the churches, right.

1420
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 5: The Orthodox position is on economia or on economia, is

1421
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:11,239
that it's up to the local bishops to decide how

1422
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:15,239
and when and whether baptism is necessary, whether there's a

1423
01:29:15,319 --> 01:29:21,039
profession renunciation of errors, cherstmation, it's a local decision. There

1424
01:29:21,159 --> 01:29:23,640
does not have to be a one size fits all rule.

1425
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:27,279
And that's a difference from Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholicism assumes

1426
01:29:27,319 --> 01:29:29,439
that there's a one size fits all rule. But even

1427
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,359
Roman Catholics have conditional baptism, so they do the exact

1428
01:29:32,399 --> 01:29:36,359
same thing. So again I don't even understand what. Go

1429
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:39,840
watch the video that I've made on this topic. It's

1430
01:29:40,079 --> 01:29:42,439
just type in rebaptism. JDR. Not being mean to you,

1431
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:46,319
it's just it's not faq, Knight, it's not catech human

1432
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,760
question nite. I'm looking for people who disagree. We got

1433
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:52,319
one hundred and five people in here, and most of

1434
01:29:52,359 --> 01:29:54,560
the time the questions like that that come, or the

1435
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:58,920
never ending Oriental Orthodox questions. That's why we're doing this

1436
01:29:59,039 --> 01:30:03,279
ongoing series so that I don't have to repeat the

1437
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:07,680
same answers every time we do this live stream. I'm

1438
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:10,399
not being mean. It's not really imagine you, guys, if

1439
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:14,199
you had repeated something that's been asked to you literally

1440
01:30:14,359 --> 01:30:18,840
hundreds of times. That's the reason that I seem dismissive

1441
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:21,680
is not because I don't like you, or I hate people,

1442
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:25,039
or I he's mean. It's that we make videos and

1443
01:30:25,159 --> 01:30:28,600
podcasts on these topics so that I don't have to

1444
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:30,920
keep doing that so I can tell you, hey, guess

1445
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,920
what this FAQ question. We've already got a whole talk

1446
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:36,319
on it. And a lot of people are freaking lazy, man.

1447
01:30:36,359 --> 01:30:38,359
They won't go and find the videos. I understand it's

1448
01:30:38,399 --> 01:30:42,279
not all laziness, because sometimes the videos are buried in

1449
01:30:42,319 --> 01:30:45,039
the YouTube algorithm, but a lot of these questions they're

1450
01:30:45,079 --> 01:30:48,520
pretty easy to like get, they're easy to find, so

1451
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:53,159
if it's me saying like tonight is debate night. That

1452
01:30:53,359 --> 01:30:57,319
means it's not what do I do for fasting? What's

1453
01:30:57,359 --> 01:30:59,880
the proper spirit prayer rule?

1454
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:00,560
Speaker 8: Uh?

1455
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:01,840
Speaker 5: Well, what's the cannon on?

1456
01:31:02,319 --> 01:31:02,399
Speaker 2: Uh?

1457
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 19: You know?

1458
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 5: Can I go to the movies? Or like, it's not

1459
01:31:05,119 --> 01:31:10,159
what we're doing tonight. It says that the top Debate night, Steven.

1460
01:31:15,079 --> 01:31:15,680
Speaker 8: Can you hear me?

1461
01:31:17,399 --> 01:31:17,720
Speaker 2: Okay?

1462
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 9: Good?

1463
01:31:18,279 --> 01:31:19,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was on earlier.

1464
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:21,600
Speaker 41: I think I'm a problem with my mic on my

1465
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,199
laptop ever since we got this new microphone.

1466
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 29: I'm not I'm not a technician when it when it

1467
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:29,359
comes to laptops.

1468
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1469
01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:34,279
Speaker 12: Yeah, But before I go to my question, first, I

1470
01:31:34,359 --> 01:31:35,640
want to say Jay, I thought.

1471
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:39,159
Speaker 2: He did a really good Matthew mcconnoughey, thank you.

1472
01:31:41,039 --> 01:31:41,239
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1473
01:31:41,359 --> 01:31:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1474
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:41,920
Speaker 8: No.

1475
01:31:42,279 --> 01:31:44,279
Speaker 2: So my question is about.

1476
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:46,039
Speaker 18: The cannon.

1477
01:31:47,560 --> 01:32:01,199
Speaker 5: You're cutting out, man, can't harry you? Uh you you've

1478
01:32:01,239 --> 01:32:03,600
cut out man. Let's see that guy. There was one

1479
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:09,880
guy that clipped a maybe it's just baptisms not rebuilt.

1480
01:32:12,319 --> 01:32:17,520
There's a guy that clipped it and it was a

1481
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:20,039
different channel. It wasn't my channel.

1482
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:29,319
Speaker 8: Riptured.

1483
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 5: You're ear cutting out man. I don't know, Kenny.

1484
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:34,760
Speaker 12: I can't hear you at all.

1485
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 5: That's you're in bro, all right, it's open for him.

1486
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:42,199
I'm looking for people who disagree. That means not f

1487
01:32:42,279 --> 01:32:48,199
a questions, not catechumen question night. If you disagree, you

1488
01:32:48,239 --> 01:32:52,439
go to the head of the line. What did that

1489
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:54,680
guy title that video? The thing that's annoying is that

1490
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:57,000
you you basically have to have like the perfect title

1491
01:32:57,760 --> 01:32:58,640
or it doesn't come up.

1492
01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:02,680
Speaker 14: It was.

1493
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:17,119
Speaker 42: Let's try it orthodox baptism. I don't know why that's

1494
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:22,680
the only thing that comes up. This might be old

1495
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:29,000
now this maybe this is it, and this isn't it.

1496
01:33:29,119 --> 01:33:30,279
I don't know why it doesn't come up.

1497
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 5: Maybe this is it. No, that's not it. Well, I thought,

1498
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:54,039
maybe we get some Protestants coming in tonight, but I

1499
01:33:54,079 --> 01:33:56,760
don't really, we're not getting much of that. We just

1500
01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:05,520
got a couple kind of lunatic people. What was the

1501
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:10,760
name of that video? Orthodox? Let's see valid?

1502
01:34:11,199 --> 01:34:11,600
Speaker 4: Maybe it was.

1503
01:34:14,199 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 5: Valid? Is always what confuses people. I don't know. I

1504
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:37,399
don't even have the energy to look for it. Awakened.

1505
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:47,079
There was a guy that was making clips and he

1506
01:34:47,159 --> 01:34:51,279
clipped a really good, like twenty minute discussion on baptism

1507
01:34:52,039 --> 01:34:56,319
and rebaptism, and I thought, you know, finally we have

1508
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,600
like the video where I don't have to repeat this

1509
01:35:00,079 --> 01:35:01,479
tell me? Do you a lot of stream? And I'm

1510
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:05,560
so tired of PSA like, I mean, I mean, I've

1511
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:08,880
explained and are you the PSA thing probably like at

1512
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:11,079
least a few hundred times in the last five years.

1513
01:35:13,119 --> 01:35:16,840
I hate this or saved like, Oh, I can't stand

1514
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:19,359
these questions. Man, I'm yeah, man, what's up?

1515
01:35:21,319 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 2: Hey?

1516
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:22,039
Speaker 12: You do you hear me?

1517
01:35:22,279 --> 01:35:22,439
Speaker 26: Huh?

1518
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 12: Yeah? I am cradle and probably not.

1519
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:28,840
Speaker 43: Asking a debate question, so I hope you don't mind.

1520
01:35:29,199 --> 01:35:32,479
But I just had a question with regards to Catholic apologetics. Okay,

1521
01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:37,600
as it relates to Oriental orthodoxy, which you could shut

1522
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:39,439
me down if you're going to detail it in your channel,

1523
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:42,720
But because I was curious. Sometimes I hear them throw

1524
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:44,800
around it seems like a lazy argument, but I don't

1525
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:48,800
have a good response to it. That they're kind of concilier,

1526
01:35:49,279 --> 01:35:52,039
you know, universal good by the Holy Spirit approach is

1527
01:35:52,159 --> 01:35:54,720
essentially ours, and that we have no grounds to disparage

1528
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:56,680
them compared to ours, and since they have the Pope,

1529
01:35:56,720 --> 01:35:58,680
they can you know, And I'm just curious how you'd

1530
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:00,960
basically respond to that if I praise that clearly.

1531
01:36:02,119 --> 01:36:05,159
Speaker 5: I don't understand what what's say it again?

1532
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:07,079
Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm sure that I'm sorry.

1533
01:36:07,960 --> 01:36:12,840
Speaker 43: Essentially, like, you know, our epistemology is very similar to theirs,

1534
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:14,439
if that's the right word, Like the way we come

1535
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:15,760
to decisions through councils.

1536
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 12: Right, there's no pope declaring things.

1537
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:21,720
Speaker 5: Ours is similar to the Roman Catholic to the Orientals.

1538
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:23,479
Oh I thought you said caloign nevermind.

1539
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:24,640
Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm sorry.

1540
01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 43: But the Catholics say that ours is similar to the Orientals,

1541
01:36:27,039 --> 01:36:28,479
and that because of that, you know, we don't have

1542
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:31,399
the unifying leader to deduce between the two, right, that

1543
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:33,159
we have no grounding to say that we're right in

1544
01:36:33,239 --> 01:36:33,640
their room.

1545
01:36:33,960 --> 01:36:35,159
Speaker 12: And I'm just curious from.

1546
01:36:35,119 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 43: Like authoritative standpoint, like, how would.

1547
01:36:38,239 --> 01:36:39,640
Speaker 12: You respond to that?

1548
01:36:43,079 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 5: Well, I don't think that the papacy does the work,

1549
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:48,279
but they think it does. So there, I suppose a

1550
01:36:48,359 --> 01:36:53,159
solution to this problem is really a problem that everybody has. So,

1551
01:36:54,039 --> 01:36:56,680
I mean, has Francis solved the problems in the church

1552
01:36:56,880 --> 01:37:01,279
with his past fifteen years of just attend thirteen years

1553
01:37:01,319 --> 01:37:03,159
of decisions? Has this has this worked?

1554
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1555
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:06,680
Speaker 12: That's that's typically where I go, which is why I

1556
01:37:06,760 --> 01:37:08,199
decide as on that.

1557
01:37:11,359 --> 01:37:18,359
Speaker 5: I mean, if that's the case, Like how was the

1558
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:20,880
how were the problem solved in the first three and

1559
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,760
twenty years before? Right before?

1560
01:37:25,239 --> 01:37:25,359
Speaker 6: Uh?

1561
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:27,479
Speaker 5: And and I mean, does it even make sense to

1562
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:30,039
even cite Nicea if your Roman Catholic should be like,

1563
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:33,880
why didn't the pope just decide the issues at Nicea?

1564
01:37:34,159 --> 01:37:38,359
Like because remember they'll cite Clements Ella Clements deciding issues.

1565
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:42,920
So he's the first autocrat universal pope example that we

1566
01:37:43,039 --> 01:37:46,279
have post apostles. And it's like, okay, if that's how

1567
01:37:46,319 --> 01:37:49,640
it works, then why is there a need for any

1568
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:54,840
problems to be squelched by an ecumenical council? Councils are

1569
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:58,840
a huge ordeal. They're called by emperors. Money is put

1570
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:02,279
into it from the imperial treasury. People are brought from,

1571
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,479
you know, hundreds of miles away. It takes forever. It's

1572
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:08,760
a huge ordeal in the ancient world. And according to them,

1573
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:12,880
the problems are just solved by the pope's decisions, according

1574
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:13,680
to batic and one.

1575
01:38:14,399 --> 01:38:18,159
Speaker 12: So all of that he lets us two councils, isn't it.

1576
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:21,720
Speaker 5: Well? I mean, why is he being nice when he

1577
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:24,000
could be it could be a lot more efficient and

1578
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:27,239
like sensible and pragmatic I thought that's what they're all about, right,

1579
01:38:27,359 --> 01:38:30,840
like the oh yeah, another if you remember this what

1580
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:33,760
a bar actually says. He's like, well, the pope had

1581
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:36,439
that power book, he did in no ways use it.

1582
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:39,199
Oh so in other words, he failed at what he

1583
01:38:39,279 --> 01:38:41,319
was supposed to do throughout the first thousand years. That's

1584
01:38:41,319 --> 01:38:43,039
what you're saying, right.

1585
01:38:43,079 --> 01:38:45,279
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's ridiculous. I think that's very eloquently for.

1586
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:45,760
Speaker 2: To thank you.

1587
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:51,960
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, I just think that this that whole thing

1588
01:38:52,239 --> 01:38:56,159
is a thing that evolved and let's a young potawan.

1589
01:38:56,239 --> 01:39:01,680
What's up, dude? Dollars are getting to me? Thor is dead.

1590
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:08,039
Five dollars God logic tactic. Interpret Protestant proof texts, draw

1591
01:39:08,159 --> 01:39:15,319
them in and then say we just reading Maine. I

1592
01:39:15,359 --> 01:39:20,159
could try that tactic, just read the text and be like, oh,

1593
01:39:20,199 --> 01:39:23,600
we're just reading dog little Blue. Two dollars. You got

1594
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:26,319
a soul patch so o l E underneath your lip

1595
01:39:26,399 --> 01:39:33,840
exactly except I shaved it. Viga less guys, spread the

1596
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:36,720
love for Jade daigre. What does that mean? Is that

1597
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:39,399
like the Daugasteini version of dire, I don't know what

1598
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:44,079
that means? Young whatever boom or unmute.

1599
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:46,680
Speaker 12: Hey Jay, I'm a Protestant bro.

1600
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 5: So, okay, what's up?

1601
01:39:52,199 --> 01:39:53,079
Speaker 2: Who's talking right now?

1602
01:39:53,399 --> 01:39:55,640
Speaker 5: I'm talking to you. I was impersonating you.

1603
01:39:56,479 --> 01:39:59,119
Speaker 12: Oh hey, bro, So I have a question.

1604
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:01,359
Speaker 41: So I have a Protestant background, and you know, I

1605
01:40:01,439 --> 01:40:03,319
got a Catholic church right next to me, and so

1606
01:40:03,359 --> 01:40:05,079
I'm going to try and hit an Orthodox church.

1607
01:40:05,239 --> 01:40:05,520
Speaker 2: Allow.

1608
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 41: I want to thank you for the recommendations of Saint

1609
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:12,319
Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological controversy. I'm also listening

1610
01:40:12,359 --> 01:40:14,520
to the Apstock Fathers great things.

1611
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:15,760
Speaker 12: But I wanted to ask you.

1612
01:40:16,159 --> 01:40:20,079
Speaker 41: You know, since you are Orthodox, what is the teaching

1613
01:40:20,119 --> 01:40:24,159
as it relates to the household, especially the father and

1614
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:25,119
or a husband.

1615
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:27,319
Speaker 2: And like Protestant.

1616
01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:31,560
Speaker 41: Background, there's always this like working as a team, help

1617
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:34,880
your wife grow in Christ. Is that the same for

1618
01:40:35,319 --> 01:40:39,439
Orthodox for Orthodoxy or is it more of a leadership

1619
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:40,960
driven role In Orthodoxy?

1620
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:44,960
Speaker 5: I would say it should be a leadership driven role.

1621
01:40:45,159 --> 01:40:49,319
I don't see this idea of egalitarianism. I mean, you

1622
01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:52,880
can have a position of authority and work as a team.

1623
01:40:53,359 --> 01:40:57,079
There's nothing about team that necessitates there being egalitarianism per se.

1624
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:01,000
You can have a team leader. I mean, so the

1625
01:41:01,119 --> 01:41:03,279
terminology is kind of vague, but I mean I would

1626
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:07,840
I would say the religion is one patriarchal got it.

1627
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:09,199
Speaker 12: That was the answer I wanted.

1628
01:41:09,279 --> 01:41:10,159
Speaker 2: Man, Thank you so much.

1629
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:14,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you're gonna find libs everywhere, though, So

1630
01:41:14,399 --> 01:41:16,319
you're gonna you can find an Orthodox church where some

1631
01:41:16,399 --> 01:41:19,439
woman will tell you that we're working to bring priests

1632
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:22,600
women priests to the church and get rid of the patriarch.

1633
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:25,399
I'm sure you can find some. It's always going to

1634
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:28,640
be some fat woman too, that's saying that. I'm sure

1635
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:33,640
you can find it. Ninety some fat feminists. I'm sure.

1636
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:40,359
Just go to ancient faith radio. The women that you

1637
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:43,960
find on there, that's they're going to be pushing that probably. Uh,

1638
01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:46,399
it's open for him. Anybody want to come to debate.

1639
01:41:46,399 --> 01:41:48,079
We've got still got ninety people in here. We've only

1640
01:41:48,159 --> 01:41:51,800
been going for hour forty five. No Protestants that disagree,

1641
01:41:51,880 --> 01:41:56,439
No Roman Catholics that disagree, No Gnostics, no Mormons. No,

1642
01:41:57,479 --> 01:41:59,359
I'm just almost starting naming all the cults.

1643
01:42:00,239 --> 01:42:00,359
Speaker 9: Uh.

1644
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:07,439
Speaker 5: No om Shinrico proponents, No Evangelical Calvinists, no Reformed Baptists.

1645
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:08,880
Know how many cults?

1646
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:10,239
Speaker 4: Can we go through all of them?

1647
01:42:10,279 --> 01:42:10,520
Speaker 5: Again?

1648
01:42:12,159 --> 01:42:25,800
Speaker 4: No Mendians no Druze, no Hashamites, no Hasha Shim, no Shiah,

1649
01:42:29,199 --> 01:42:31,560
no Hebrew roots.

1650
01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:32,199
Speaker 2: Let's see we.

1651
01:42:32,279 --> 01:42:39,399
Speaker 5: Got red patriot. Oh my gosh, Marxist Leninists, this will

1652
01:42:39,399 --> 01:42:43,640
be good. Hello, what's up?

1653
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:44,920
Speaker 2: I'm a Christian Communist.

1654
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 5: It doesn't exist, is the I.

1655
01:42:49,000 --> 01:42:52,000
Speaker 44: Don't think any church on earth right now is is

1656
01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:56,079
as concerned as they should be with the prohibited uh

1657
01:42:56,479 --> 01:43:01,279
practice of usury. I think all of the churches practice

1658
01:43:01,359 --> 01:43:07,199
usury in their own their own organizations and uh as

1659
01:43:07,279 --> 01:43:08,359
we know in the Lord's prayer.

1660
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:12,640
Speaker 5: How to Orthodox churchs practice usury in their organizations? What

1661
01:43:12,720 --> 01:43:13,159
does that mean?

1662
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:16,399
Speaker 23: Well, I mean there's a lot of things to be

1663
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:19,319
concerned with with usury and the Orthodox Church.

1664
01:43:21,399 --> 01:43:27,319
Speaker 44: Your churches are just not as committed to the Christian spirit,

1665
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:27,840
you know.

1666
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:30,319
Speaker 5: And so your answer to that question was to restate

1667
01:43:30,399 --> 01:43:31,600
the original thing in question.

1668
01:43:33,279 --> 01:43:35,239
Speaker 44: You know, Yeah, it's it's it's a and then you

1669
01:43:35,359 --> 01:43:37,039
also canonize like people like.

1670
01:43:37,039 --> 01:43:41,239
Speaker 5: The again again full of full of usurers.

1671
01:43:42,279 --> 01:43:43,760
Speaker 2: Dynasty is no ideal.

1672
01:43:47,319 --> 01:43:49,600
Speaker 5: So you're not going to answer. So, and there is

1673
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:51,399
no such thing as a Christian communists. You just made

1674
01:43:51,479 --> 01:43:52,039
up your own thing.

1675
01:43:52,359 --> 01:43:54,319
Speaker 2: You you can you can dismiss me on.

1676
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:56,720
Speaker 5: You're not going to answer the questions, is why I'm

1677
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:57,119
moving on.

1678
01:43:57,560 --> 01:43:57,680
Speaker 2: Uh.

1679
01:43:58,039 --> 01:44:01,600
Speaker 5: And your argument was to restake your position twice and

1680
01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:03,840
then again three times in a row, so that doesn't

1681
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:06,079
constitute an argument. I asked you specifically for what the

1682
01:44:06,239 --> 01:44:12,159
argument was that Orthodox organizations are participating in usury. You

1683
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:15,359
restated the thing in question, and then you said the

1684
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:21,520
Ramanovs included usurers. The Orthodox position of sainthood can include

1685
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:25,680
people who did not necessarily live exemplar relives, but for example,

1686
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:29,319
confessed at their death and became martyrs. So that doesn't

1687
01:44:29,359 --> 01:44:35,319
even negate the Ramanovs. And I'm not even sure that

1688
01:44:35,399 --> 01:44:37,600
the Romanovs were a bunch of users. I mean, I

1689
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:40,520
don't even know, except I accept that assertion. You need

1690
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:45,479
to demonstrate that from the outset. But you weren't going

1691
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:47,399
to answer any questions. You just wanted to gap and

1692
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:49,640
make up your own. There's also thing as a Christian

1693
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:52,960
Communist Marxist doesn't exist. It's a made up thing. Does

1694
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:55,680
anyone have an argument? Anyone disagree? I'm not taking q

1695
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:58,960
and as I'm looking for people who disagree, any dispensation.

1696
01:44:59,119 --> 01:45:04,279
It's any pre millennials, any sola fide so scripture.

1697
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:09,640
Speaker 4: Anyone who's a Mormon, anyone who is a uh, let's

1698
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:11,479
see Joseph either dude.

1699
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:12,119
Speaker 5: We already went to.

1700
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what's up?

1701
01:45:26,079 --> 01:45:27,359
Speaker 12: Jay's my question?

1702
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:30,760
Speaker 45: He is like, you're a smart dude, And how how

1703
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:33,239
can you still believe in a younger? Like I hold

1704
01:45:33,279 --> 01:45:35,560
Michael Jones position. I don't want to like get into

1705
01:45:35,640 --> 01:45:38,600
like the logistics, but like, how do you still hold

1706
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:39,039
a younger?

1707
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:43,239
Speaker 5: How do you not hold to it given the fact

1708
01:45:43,279 --> 01:45:45,520
that it's built on so many lies?

1709
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:49,960
Speaker 2: Like what about.

1710
01:45:52,079 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 5: So what about piltdown Man, Nebraska Man. You know they're

1711
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:56,199
ford their their frauds.

1712
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:57,920
Speaker 2: Wait, what are you what is that?

1713
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:00,399
Speaker 5: What are you talking about? You don't even know exactly,

1714
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:04,039
I don't know. I don't pilt down Man, Nebraska Man.

1715
01:46:04,079 --> 01:46:08,319
They're famous frauds. And that's your example. You're supposed to nut.

1716
01:46:08,359 --> 01:46:13,840
Your go to is this famous freaking laughable frauds. Cavemen.

1717
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:23,119
The Geico caveman is what you go to. Literally, like

1718
01:46:23,159 --> 01:46:28,000
one of the most famous examples of this is like

1719
01:46:28,199 --> 01:46:31,119
the most famous hosts pilt Down Man. And by the way,

1720
01:46:31,199 --> 01:46:34,680
Nebraskaman's exact same. And why is the why is Taylor

1721
01:46:34,760 --> 01:46:37,319
de Sharden popping up at all these By the way,

1722
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:40,720
anybody else looking for people who disagree? We look for

1723
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:45,000
the Muslims, the Mormons, the Atheists, the Dispensations, the Protestants,

1724
01:46:45,800 --> 01:46:48,279
the Roman Catholics, of the Gnostics. I don't. I just

1725
01:46:48,359 --> 01:46:52,439
simply am way more of a skeptic on scientism claims

1726
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:57,039
than what's his name aspiring philosophy would be a sparing

1727
01:46:57,079 --> 01:47:01,439
philosophy defaults to a lot of this scientist domain, and

1728
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:04,800
I don't. I think a lot of that stuff is fraudulent.

1729
01:47:06,079 --> 01:47:12,319
Oh my gosh, sure we go, Hey.

1730
01:47:12,239 --> 01:47:12,800
Speaker 26: J how are you?

1731
01:47:13,319 --> 01:47:13,760
Speaker 5: What's up?

1732
01:47:15,319 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 2: Nothing much?

1733
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 33: So I come from a Muslim background, and I just

1734
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:21,159
requently watched your debate with Dake brinkintella. So I'm not

1735
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:24,640
as philosophical or I'm not as.

1736
01:47:28,039 --> 01:47:29,560
Speaker 19: Smart and philosophy as you guys are.

1737
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:31,880
Speaker 33: So I had to struggle, you know, understanding the terms

1738
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:34,520
and everything of the debate. But I understand your point

1739
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:37,520
of that we count God by division and not by identity,

1740
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:39,079
and I just wanted to understand why.

1741
01:47:39,159 --> 01:47:41,079
Speaker 2: Is that that we don't count by identity.

1742
01:47:42,119 --> 01:47:45,079
Speaker 5: I didn't say that. I said that we count in

1743
01:47:45,239 --> 01:47:47,520
different ways, different things in different ways, And I said

1744
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:51,079
that the ancient world counted by division. That that was uh,

1745
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:54,960
that was uncontroversial because you can look at al Gazali,

1746
01:47:55,439 --> 01:47:59,119
you can look at Aristotle, you can look through medieval

1747
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:03,399
Earth manuals like that's how they counted. It's why the

1748
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:07,079
Nicene Creed says that God is won and indivisible. And

1749
01:48:07,239 --> 01:48:09,760
when you read, for example, Maximus the Confessor, he talks

1750
01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:13,800
about the monad is first, and then we have from

1751
01:48:13,880 --> 01:48:17,359
the monad the diad, and it's a splitting of the

1752
01:48:17,439 --> 01:48:20,560
monad into a diad and then into a triad. So

1753
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:23,319
that's literally dividing, counting by division.

1754
01:48:24,399 --> 01:48:26,600
Speaker 33: No, I understand the concept of counting by division, and

1755
01:48:26,680 --> 01:48:28,560
I don't think that is inherently logical, you know what

1756
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:31,000
I mean, Like if we split a ply into three parts.

1757
01:48:31,159 --> 01:48:32,000
Speaker 19: It's still one pie.

1758
01:48:32,039 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 2: You know what I'm trying to say.

1759
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:36,720
Speaker 5: But the point was that both Christians and Muslims would

1760
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:42,439
require counting both by division and by identity, depending upon

1761
01:48:42,720 --> 01:48:45,399
what they were picking out in their respective deities. So

1762
01:48:45,479 --> 01:48:49,439
when a Muslim picks out the singular divine essence, Algazali

1763
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:52,439
would say that God is indivisible. But when you're picking

1764
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:56,720
out specific divine attributes, you would need to identify them

1765
01:48:56,840 --> 01:48:58,439
and pick them out in a different way.

1766
01:49:00,039 --> 01:49:02,439
Speaker 33: We still recognize that there are multiple attributes. We don't

1767
01:49:02,439 --> 01:49:03,600
say that there are one attribute.

1768
01:49:04,079 --> 01:49:06,399
Speaker 19: We count attributes by identity as well, because.

1769
01:49:06,119 --> 01:49:09,039
Speaker 5: There I just said, you count the identity the attributes

1770
01:49:09,039 --> 01:49:09,600
by identity.

1771
01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:13,199
Speaker 33: So in what way do we count in the Islamic conception,

1772
01:49:13,479 --> 01:49:14,920
In what way do they count God?

1773
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:19,520
Speaker 5: My point was that you also would require the same

1774
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:23,359
form of counting in both ways, as I understand, and

1775
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:27,840
that was against the position of Jake, who was that

1776
01:49:28,039 --> 01:49:30,560
the only way to count is identity, which is a

1777
01:49:30,640 --> 01:49:31,520
more of a modern idea.

1778
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:34,960
Speaker 33: No, I understand your point now, but I'm trying to say,

1779
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:37,800
in what sense in the Islamic conception do they count

1780
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:39,199
by a divisibility.

1781
01:49:40,119 --> 01:49:42,399
Speaker 5: When, for example, yeah, when you're if you're talking about

1782
01:49:42,399 --> 01:49:45,960
the unity or tall heed Uh. For example, algaz Ali

1783
01:49:46,039 --> 01:49:49,439
speaks of God as one and indivisible. He literally has

1784
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:53,319
an entire section about counting allah Uh and in his

1785
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:58,000
unity via division because the ancient world counted that way.

1786
01:49:58,079 --> 01:50:00,880
You don't get to counting by identity until you get

1787
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:04,880
into more of a philosophical medieval conception where you have

1788
01:50:05,079 --> 01:50:07,800
things that are not divitible that can still be counted.

1789
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:13,000
So for example, abstract objects, logical laws, sets, it makes

1790
01:50:13,079 --> 01:50:18,640
no sense to count those types of things by division,

1791
01:50:18,760 --> 01:50:20,560
and so they're counted by identity.

1792
01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:23,319
Speaker 2: I understand, Yeah, I understand.

1793
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:29,119
Speaker 5: So what's the question about a lot attributes or does

1794
01:50:29,159 --> 01:50:29,720
that answer it?

1795
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:30,720
Speaker 10: Oh?

1796
01:50:30,840 --> 01:50:32,279
Speaker 19: No, no, no, you addressed it. I'm just going to

1797
01:50:32,359 --> 01:50:33,479
do more research on my own.

1798
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:33,640
Speaker 2: You know.

1799
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:35,760
Speaker 33: I'm going to say, you and Jake make really compelling points.

1800
01:50:35,760 --> 01:50:38,079
I think you guys are probably the smartest out of

1801
01:50:38,239 --> 01:50:39,720
all the apologetics on YouTube.

1802
01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 5: So what compelling point did Jake make?

1803
01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:44,119
Speaker 14: Well?

1804
01:50:44,199 --> 01:50:46,800
Speaker 19: I didn't really see how we count what do you

1805
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:47,119
call it?

1806
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:50,880
Speaker 33: Why it would make sense to count God by division

1807
01:50:51,319 --> 01:50:53,399
and not by identity when we see that?

1808
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:55,199
Speaker 5: Did you not hear anything that I said? So you're

1809
01:50:55,239 --> 01:50:56,279
not listening to what I said.

1810
01:50:56,520 --> 01:50:57,840
Speaker 2: No, no, I heard what you said.

1811
01:50:58,359 --> 01:51:02,279
Speaker 5: When did I say that we don't count God by identity? Also,

1812
01:51:04,119 --> 01:51:07,720
I didn't say that I said that. For example, I

1813
01:51:07,880 --> 01:51:13,840
said both positions would utilize both things because different ways

1814
01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:17,039
of counting are picking out different types of things. So,

1815
01:51:17,199 --> 01:51:19,279
for example, when we say that God is one and

1816
01:51:19,399 --> 01:51:22,560
indivisible in the creed, that's a reference to the divine essence.

1817
01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:25,520
But when we start picking out specifics like the Father,

1818
01:51:26,039 --> 01:51:29,479
the Son, the Holy Spirit, those are properties that are

1819
01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:31,760
being picked out that are identities, of.

1820
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:33,840
Speaker 33: Course, and that's why you claim that there are three

1821
01:51:33,920 --> 01:51:35,800
persons but not there are three God, because they are

1822
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:37,159
three identities.

1823
01:51:37,239 --> 01:51:39,319
Speaker 19: But that's what I'm trying to say is that if there.

1824
01:51:39,239 --> 01:51:43,079
Speaker 33: Are three different identities and each three of them are individually.

1825
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:45,399
Speaker 19: Fully God, then why would there not be three Gods?

1826
01:51:47,239 --> 01:51:49,800
Speaker 5: Because the term God is intended first of all to

1827
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:52,960
pick out the person of the Father, and so there's

1828
01:51:53,039 --> 01:51:56,279
God by identity, and then there's God by predication. So

1829
01:51:56,479 --> 01:51:58,880
you're the argument that you're making there assumes that the

1830
01:51:59,039 --> 01:52:02,520
word God only picks out one thing. But in divine revelation,

1831
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:06,479
for example, the word God picks out multiple things, such

1832
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:13,119
as divine persons, divine energies, the divine essence, divine human

1833
01:52:14,760 --> 01:52:18,079
people that are called gods or divinities, and then angels

1834
01:52:18,119 --> 01:52:20,479
that are called gods or divinities or demons. The word

1835
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:24,119
God good is a broad term that can be used

1836
01:52:24,119 --> 01:52:25,960
to pick out all of those things. And so the

1837
01:52:26,119 --> 01:52:30,159
entire Muslim argument is premised on a word concept fallacy

1838
01:52:30,239 --> 01:52:32,439
that the word God only picks out or has a

1839
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:35,840
reference to one thing, and that's the mistake. And I'm

1840
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:38,920
pointing out that even in your own system, it doesn't

1841
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:41,720
work that way, which is why we ask Jake the

1842
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:45,760
questions about whether all his attributes are self existent, because

1843
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:48,399
it would be the same problem applied to the attributes

1844
01:52:48,439 --> 01:52:49,399
that you're making to us.

1845
01:52:52,119 --> 01:52:52,880
Speaker 19: I see, I see it.

1846
01:52:54,079 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 33: So do you what I would ask is then what

1847
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:58,640
I would then ask would be if God has this

1848
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:01,479
nuanced definition when we make this, when you make the

1849
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:02,079
statement from the.

1850
01:53:02,159 --> 01:53:04,319
Speaker 5: Ubanari, you have the same position. You have the same

1851
01:53:04,479 --> 01:53:05,840
metaphysical scheme at work.

1852
01:53:06,760 --> 01:53:08,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. I'm just trying to understand this.

1853
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:12,520
Speaker 19: So, so when we say that the Father is God, you're.

1854
01:53:12,399 --> 01:53:15,159
Speaker 33: Saying that it's both predication and identity.

1855
01:53:15,279 --> 01:53:18,840
Speaker 5: With the Father. The Father is God because he's fought,

1856
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:24,600
he is source, are found, cause, et cetera. Yes, and

1857
01:53:25,079 --> 01:53:31,199
the Son and the Spirit participate in divinity by predication, right,

1858
01:53:31,319 --> 01:53:34,800
so they receive their divinity from the Father. But properly speaking,

1859
01:53:34,920 --> 01:53:37,960
in monarchical trinitarianism, the word God is a reference to

1860
01:53:38,039 --> 01:53:38,880
the person of the Father.

1861
01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:42,600
Speaker 33: Okay, so only the Father can be used God in

1862
01:53:42,680 --> 01:53:45,960
an identical form, but for the Son and the Holy Spirit,

1863
01:53:45,960 --> 01:53:47,479
it would have to be in a predicative for is

1864
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:48,239
that im I understanding that?

1865
01:53:48,359 --> 01:53:51,199
Speaker 5: Because that yeah, because they receive U. I mean, it's

1866
01:53:51,279 --> 01:53:53,359
not wrong to call the Son God because he has

1867
01:53:53,399 --> 01:53:57,159
the divine nature, but it's for us first and foremost.

1868
01:53:57,239 --> 01:53:59,560
God picks out the person of the Father, but it

1869
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:01,920
can also will be used to pick out the divine nature,

1870
01:54:02,920 --> 01:54:05,199
divine operations, and it can also be used to pick

1871
01:54:05,239 --> 01:54:09,399
out human and angelic and demonic entities. The demons are

1872
01:54:09,399 --> 01:54:12,600
called gods, for example. So then if I were to

1873
01:54:14,079 --> 01:54:15,439
can I give you an example?

1874
01:54:16,199 --> 01:54:18,159
Speaker 33: Okay, sorry, I just want to ask one quick question.

1875
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:20,199
So if I were to say the Son is God,

1876
01:54:20,279 --> 01:54:22,479
then I'm not really saying that he is God.

1877
01:54:22,399 --> 01:54:24,520
Speaker 2: In the identical sense. I'm saying that he is divine.

1878
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:28,279
Speaker 33: He possesses God's essence, but he's not actually God in

1879
01:54:28,319 --> 01:54:29,119
the identical.

1880
01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:31,359
Speaker 5: Sense, not in the sense of being the Father, because

1881
01:54:31,399 --> 01:54:35,760
the Father is properly speaking, the cause, the fount, the source,

1882
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:39,079
et cetera. And that's why Jesus says the Father is greater.

1883
01:54:39,279 --> 01:54:42,600
That's the orthodox understanding of monarchical trinitarianism.

1884
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:46,720
Speaker 33: I see, I see, But then see That's when I

1885
01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:49,279
start to see what Justin Martyr was talking about in

1886
01:54:49,359 --> 01:54:52,800
his dialogue with Trifle, because you just denied the individ

1887
01:54:53,159 --> 01:54:55,760
the identity of God with Jesus Christ to him. I

1888
01:54:55,840 --> 01:54:59,239
think a majority of Orthodox Christians would say, no, Jesus

1889
01:54:59,319 --> 01:55:03,920
Christ or the One is God by identity, like it's

1890
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:05,720
not just a mere predication.

1891
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:10,039
Speaker 5: That's just assuming again, that argument is assuming equalitarianism and

1892
01:55:10,119 --> 01:55:12,000
that the word God only has a reference to the

1893
01:55:12,039 --> 01:55:14,199
divine nature. And that's the very thing that we just

1894
01:55:14,600 --> 01:55:17,239
pointed out is not monarchical trinitarianism.

1895
01:55:17,359 --> 01:55:20,399
Speaker 2: No, My grife is really that when.

1896
01:55:20,279 --> 01:55:22,600
Speaker 33: We're using saying the Son is God or Jesus Christ

1897
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:25,399
is God, we're not actually saying that he is an

1898
01:55:25,439 --> 01:55:27,840
identical sense, where it's more like saying it's more kin

1899
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:30,359
to saying God or Jesus Christ is divine.

1900
01:55:32,119 --> 01:55:35,079
Speaker 5: He is the divine Son who possesses the divine nature.

1901
01:55:38,439 --> 01:55:41,000
Speaker 33: Many Christians find that problematic though, to deny.

1902
01:55:40,920 --> 01:55:44,520
Speaker 5: The I mean, I'm a defender of Orthodox Christian Christianity,

1903
01:55:44,560 --> 01:55:46,920
which is the teaching of the Second Ecumenical Council on

1904
01:55:47,079 --> 01:55:49,920
monarchical trinitarianism. So I don't care what Roman Catholics think

1905
01:55:50,159 --> 01:55:52,640
don't care what Protestants think. We're not interested in a

1906
01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:55,640
popularity contest. And by the way, the Muslim view is

1907
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:59,000
exact same. It's just not with persons, it's with attributes.

1908
01:55:59,319 --> 01:56:01,199
Do you believe that Allah's attributes are God?

1909
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 2: No?

1910
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:04,199
Speaker 19: No, No, he possesses attributes.

1911
01:56:04,479 --> 01:56:10,199
Speaker 5: Okay, So the attributes are not God by identity? No,

1912
01:56:11,359 --> 01:56:16,239
So they don't self exist, No, they depend.

1913
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:18,960
Speaker 19: They're not dependent.

1914
01:56:20,039 --> 01:56:22,600
Speaker 5: Well, if they don't self exist, then they are in

1915
01:56:23,039 --> 01:56:26,680
then they are. So self existence means that they are independent,

1916
01:56:27,159 --> 01:56:28,199
So they can't be dependent.

1917
01:56:31,560 --> 01:56:31,880
Speaker 19: I see.

1918
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:34,560
Speaker 33: So if they're dependent on God, what would be the

1919
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:35,760
implications of that position?

1920
01:56:36,600 --> 01:56:39,520
Speaker 5: Then the word God cannot just refer to Allah in

1921
01:56:39,640 --> 01:56:41,680
one sense. It also has to pick out other things.

1922
01:56:41,720 --> 01:56:43,479
Then you have to have other ways of counting and

1923
01:56:43,560 --> 01:56:44,600
distinguishing in a law.

1924
01:56:46,159 --> 01:56:49,920
Speaker 33: So because the attributes are dependent on a law, that

1925
01:56:50,079 --> 01:56:52,479
means that the attributes would have to be considered God

1926
01:56:52,479 --> 01:56:52,800
as well.

1927
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:55,920
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm asking you the position. Are they God

1928
01:56:56,000 --> 01:57:00,439
by identity? Are they God by participation? They depend ourselves.

1929
01:57:01,319 --> 01:57:03,520
Speaker 19: I don't think they're gonna attributes for God in any sense.

1930
01:57:03,800 --> 01:57:04,920
I think they're just attributes.

1931
01:57:05,479 --> 01:57:09,079
Speaker 5: So Allah's word is not Allah of course not.

1932
01:57:09,239 --> 01:57:10,159
Speaker 19: No, it's Alla's word.

1933
01:57:10,319 --> 01:57:11,760
Speaker 5: Are they uncreated or created?

1934
01:57:15,039 --> 01:57:15,159
Speaker 6: Uh?

1935
01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:19,039
Speaker 33: I would say Allah's word is created.

1936
01:57:19,239 --> 01:57:22,359
Speaker 5: All his words created, so the attributes of all are created.

1937
01:57:26,199 --> 01:57:28,399
That's that's let's.

1938
01:57:28,239 --> 01:57:32,079
Speaker 33: See what you're positioning now, Yeah, it's it's really philosophically perplexing.

1939
01:57:32,159 --> 01:57:32,439
Speaker 2: You see.

1940
01:57:33,079 --> 01:57:35,359
Speaker 5: Well, I mean you've had centuries of your own people

1941
01:57:35,439 --> 01:57:37,439
debating this, right, I mean I got a book right

1942
01:57:37,479 --> 01:57:41,079
here where Uh, of course, where a bunch of your

1943
01:57:41,119 --> 01:57:45,560
own people are calling you guys, uh anthropomorphic heretics critique

1944
01:57:45,560 --> 01:57:47,159
of the Palmerian creed. So I mean, do you agree

1945
01:57:47,199 --> 01:57:50,319
with Jake's position that Allah has an uncreated foot?

1946
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:52,760
Speaker 9: Uh?

1947
01:57:53,079 --> 01:57:55,119
Speaker 19: Yeah, we could just pause it that we don't know

1948
01:57:55,199 --> 01:57:56,159
the hounds or the wind.

1949
01:57:56,279 --> 01:57:57,800
Speaker 5: I mean you can say that, but what is a

1950
01:57:57,880 --> 01:57:59,279
foot that's nothing like a foot?

1951
01:58:00,239 --> 01:58:02,600
Speaker 33: Well then you're you're positing that we must know the

1952
01:58:02,640 --> 01:58:03,880
hows and whyness of God?

1953
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:04,920
Speaker 5: But I is the foot?

1954
01:58:05,319 --> 01:58:08,000
Speaker 4: Okay, I don't care how you frame it however you want.

1955
01:58:08,399 --> 01:58:10,840
Speaker 5: Is the foot uncreated or creator? You said all I

1956
01:58:10,880 --> 01:58:13,159
has created attributes, which is heresy by the way, in

1957
01:58:13,239 --> 01:58:13,720
your position.

1958
01:58:14,920 --> 01:58:17,079
Speaker 33: Well, I'm fallible, you know, I'm trying to say, I'm

1959
01:58:17,079 --> 01:58:17,680
still in the learning.

1960
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:19,680
Speaker 5: Okay, do you guys kill each other over that? Or

1961
01:58:19,800 --> 01:58:22,520
is that cool? Unfallible? Just say I'm fallible. It's like

1962
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:27,000
I can commit shirt, but I'm fallible. Didn't you guys

1963
01:58:27,079 --> 01:58:31,279
kill each other mut the Mutazila didn't? Were there battles

1964
01:58:31,319 --> 01:58:31,560
over this?

1965
01:58:32,720 --> 01:58:34,079
Speaker 2: Of course there were battles over okay?

1966
01:58:34,159 --> 01:58:36,399
Speaker 5: So do we know? I thought this was simple position,

1967
01:58:36,600 --> 01:58:39,840
like all is one? Right? Are the attributes created or uncreated?

1968
01:58:40,399 --> 01:58:43,560
Speaker 12: Well, I don't know why the attributes would.

1969
01:58:43,399 --> 01:58:45,760
Speaker 33: Even be in an argument because we're not positing that

1970
01:58:45,840 --> 01:58:49,640
the attributes are separate individual person in So.

1971
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:51,439
Speaker 5: You, in other words, you don't want me to bring

1972
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:53,560
them into the argument because it shows that you have

1973
01:58:53,640 --> 01:58:57,039
the exact same metaphysical problem that you're putting on. I

1974
01:58:57,199 --> 01:59:01,319
just don't understand how the argument is because it shows

1975
01:59:01,399 --> 01:59:03,399
the stupidity of the position to say that Allah has

1976
01:59:03,399 --> 01:59:05,600
an uncreated foot and then you just said that Alla

1977
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:06,720
has created attributes.

1978
01:59:07,159 --> 01:59:08,920
Speaker 33: But you see, this is what this is how I'm

1979
01:59:09,119 --> 01:59:10,479
this is how I'm understanding.

1980
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:13,960
Speaker 5: So the trinitarian con Now you're going to my position.

1981
01:59:14,239 --> 01:59:17,119
I want to know about is there an uncreated foot

1982
01:59:17,199 --> 01:59:19,760
or a creative foot? Is all his foot? I'm creator created?

1983
01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:20,359
Which one is it.

1984
01:59:22,039 --> 01:59:22,960
Speaker 19: Ultra? I'm not sure.

1985
01:59:23,319 --> 01:59:25,640
Speaker 5: But the thing is, I'm not so you don't have

1986
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:27,880
a so so you don't have a school. There's no

1987
01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:29,560
akida for you. You can just make it up as

1988
01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:30,159
you go or what?

1989
01:59:31,159 --> 01:59:31,319
Speaker 2: All?

1990
01:59:31,399 --> 01:59:33,279
Speaker 33: Sure, I don't need to commit myself to a certain

1991
01:59:33,319 --> 01:59:34,399
nakita on this stream.

1992
01:59:34,479 --> 01:59:35,680
Speaker 5: You don't try to ask questions?

1993
01:59:36,159 --> 01:59:36,520
Speaker 2: All right?

1994
01:59:36,600 --> 01:59:43,399
Speaker 5: So that's this honest that what I'm point was, Troy, see,

1995
01:59:43,399 --> 01:59:44,920
I don't have to commit to any now you do

1996
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:49,279
if you're gonna, uh teach Islam, you're supposed to be

1997
01:59:49,399 --> 01:59:52,399
part of some school. There's no make it up as

1998
01:59:52,439 --> 01:59:54,960
you go. And you heard him say that Allah has

1999
01:59:55,279 --> 01:59:59,279
created attributes, the speech of Allah is created. That's pretty much.

2000
01:59:59,319 --> 02:00:01,520
I think every mon someone believes that's heresy. I don't.

2001
02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:03,319
I don't think there's any OFLSS left that think that.

2002
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 2: Troy and you, okay, can you hear me?

2003
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:12,199
Speaker 7: Yep?

2004
02:00:14,319 --> 02:00:17,159
Speaker 8: So I'm an ex gnostic coming intoward the dogs.

2005
02:00:17,199 --> 02:00:20,199
Speaker 2: He and I just have a pretty much a question

2006
02:00:20,600 --> 02:00:21,680
for something I'm.

2007
02:00:21,560 --> 02:00:26,000
Speaker 10: Confused about, which is how is lady wisdom and proverbs

2008
02:00:26,119 --> 02:00:27,439
understood and orthodox?

2009
02:00:28,039 --> 02:00:29,600
Speaker 2: Is she identified with Christ?

2010
02:00:29,680 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 5: The logos that feminine yes the Paul in the New

2011
02:00:34,039 --> 02:00:37,840
Testament identifies Christ as the wisdom of God. So it's

2012
02:00:37,880 --> 02:00:41,920
a personification of God's wisdom. But that wisdom is the

2013
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:45,359
second person of the Godhead. There's no feminine person in

2014
02:00:45,439 --> 02:00:48,279
the Trinity. There's no not that's a gnostic idea. In fact,

2015
02:00:48,319 --> 02:00:51,560
I was just reading Carl Young who says that he's

2016
02:00:51,560 --> 02:00:56,439
a gnostic because of the Trinity banished the Goddess from

2017
02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:57,239
the Godhead.

2018
02:00:57,399 --> 02:00:58,079
Speaker 12: So uh.

2019
02:01:00,039 --> 02:01:02,479
Speaker 5: But it's also a reference to the Church. The Church

2020
02:01:02,600 --> 02:01:05,439
is the feminine, the house of God that's built on

2021
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:09,000
seven pillars, that offers bread and wine, as the text discussed.

2022
02:01:09,079 --> 02:01:12,680
That's a prediction of the Eucharist, the divine liturgy. There's

2023
02:01:12,720 --> 02:01:15,800
also a reference to probably marry the Theatocos.

2024
02:01:16,880 --> 02:01:19,079
Speaker 2: That's actually fantastic, Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

2025
02:01:19,399 --> 02:01:22,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, great questions. I'm glad that somebody brought nobody's ever

2026
02:01:22,279 --> 02:01:24,359
brought that up. That's that's actually a really good question.

2027
02:01:26,079 --> 02:01:40,600
Jubba Glitchy Rhythm five dollars Jay, explain why Protestants. Can

2028
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:43,039
you explain to the provinces why we're not all saints?

2029
02:01:43,119 --> 02:01:45,840
They love discrediting saints with the verse from Corinthians.

2030
02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:48,000
Speaker 9: Well, we're all.

2031
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:51,960
Speaker 5: Saints in potentia, or we're all called out, but not

2032
02:01:52,119 --> 02:01:56,079
everybody is at the level of Saint Paul or a

2033
02:01:56,439 --> 02:01:58,960
Saint Basil. So that's to me that seems like it

2034
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:00,880
should be a no brainer. What's up, man, Jebbo?

2035
02:02:01,079 --> 02:02:04,520
Speaker 6: He all right, I have a question about icons. There's

2036
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:07,720
this argument against icons that I don't know how they answer. Okay,

2037
02:02:08,600 --> 02:02:12,720
So it's the argument is that God's essence is inaccessible

2038
02:02:12,760 --> 02:02:17,319
and beyond human comprehension. Even in Christ's hyposcetic union, his

2039
02:02:17,439 --> 02:02:23,640
divine nature remains unseen and ineffable. So San Gregory wrote

2040
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:29,239
about this about God's invisible in nature being beyond human reach.

2041
02:02:30,520 --> 02:02:34,359
Thus representing Christ's divine essence through icons contradicts the belief

2042
02:02:34,439 --> 02:02:37,159
that God's divinity is entirely invisible, right.

2043
02:02:37,079 --> 02:02:39,600
Speaker 5: And so that's why the Seventh e Commitical Council says

2044
02:02:39,640 --> 02:02:41,760
that it's not the divine essence that is depicted in

2045
02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:45,319
the icons, just the divine hypostasis of the sun, not

2046
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:48,840
the usia. It's the person. And the reason that we

2047
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:51,479
can interact with the divine person is through the energies

2048
02:02:51,640 --> 02:02:55,039
of the persons. So the energies are in hypostatic, and

2049
02:02:55,279 --> 02:02:57,600
as the Seventh Ecmenical Council says, you can read on

2050
02:02:57,680 --> 02:02:59,680
the Holy Icons by saying Theodore. In that book, he

2051
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:04,680
says that what's circumscribed is the divine hypostasis. The divine

2052
02:03:04,800 --> 02:03:07,239
essence is uncircumscribable. So you have to have the distinction

2053
02:03:07,359 --> 02:03:10,720
between nature and person and between essence and energy to

2054
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:11,720
have iconography.

2055
02:03:14,039 --> 02:03:16,039
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Yeah, good question.

2056
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:21,279
Speaker 5: And again on the Holy Icons by s Theodore, this

2057
02:03:21,359 --> 02:03:25,399
tude explicitly answers that very question. Everybody should read that

2058
02:03:25,439 --> 02:03:30,079
one if they're interested in iconography. Anybody else disagree, anybody

2059
02:03:30,119 --> 02:03:34,119
have any challenges. We still got twelve hundred people over here.

2060
02:03:36,399 --> 02:03:38,119
Let me check to see if I missed a super

2061
02:03:38,239 --> 02:03:47,319
chat over here on stream labs clead us here. I

2062
02:03:47,359 --> 02:03:49,319
want to find your video. I'll send you fifty dollars

2063
02:03:49,359 --> 02:03:55,800
if you find me the link. I mean that's come

2064
02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:58,960
up a lot. I mean it's not like the video

2065
02:03:59,119 --> 02:04:01,279
that questions never come up. I just don't remember off

2066
02:04:01,279 --> 02:04:03,439
the top of my head where we've done so many

2067
02:04:03,479 --> 02:04:06,640
live streams and that question has come up so many times.

2068
02:04:09,800 --> 02:04:11,600
I have to think of how that guy that made

2069
02:04:11,640 --> 02:04:30,319
the clip worded it. Batt let's try valid baptism. I

2070
02:04:30,319 --> 02:04:33,319
don't know why this comes up. It's not about that,

2071
02:04:34,159 --> 02:04:35,560
it's just not going to come up. See that they

2072
02:04:35,720 --> 02:04:41,119
changed the algorithm all the time, and then stuff that

2073
02:04:41,279 --> 02:04:48,960
used to come up doesn't come up. Maybe the clips

2074
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:51,319
channel guy like took his clips channel down. I don't know,

2075
02:04:51,439 --> 02:04:59,960
maybe it's not there anymore. I just don't even understand,

2076
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:02,479
and like why is it even an issue, like just

2077
02:05:02,600 --> 02:05:10,439
do what your bishop says, Like why are you like

2078
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:13,079
it's the practice of ro Corps to baptize everyone that

2079
02:05:13,159 --> 02:05:18,479
comes to ro cords and that's because jurisdictions are decentralized

2080
02:05:19,239 --> 02:05:22,520
and they can make those decisions as they choose. I

2081
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:24,600
just don't understand why this is a hang up for you.

2082
02:05:24,640 --> 02:05:29,520
I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just not understood.

2083
02:05:29,520 --> 02:05:32,880
Like to me, this is like not even like this

2084
02:05:33,119 --> 02:05:36,800
is like the what Paul calls milk. It's time to

2085
02:05:36,880 --> 02:05:39,760
move on to the meat. I'm not dissing you. I

2086
02:05:39,880 --> 02:05:43,399
just don't understand the hang up or what the problem is.

2087
02:06:03,119 --> 02:06:05,720
Speaker 4: Let's try sacraments, see what we do with that.

2088
02:06:29,640 --> 02:06:40,439
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't understand the Roman Catholic mindset

2089
02:06:40,479 --> 02:06:44,319
that they think this is like a like a defeater

2090
02:06:44,479 --> 02:06:48,279
for Orthodoxy. It's like they have an expectation that the

2091
02:06:48,439 --> 02:06:53,039
or Roman the Orthodoxy will operate like Roman Catholicism, and

2092
02:06:53,159 --> 02:06:57,600
so there's there's like a jurisdictional differentiation. They think that's

2093
02:06:57,640 --> 02:07:00,520
a defeater. The assumption is that there there's like a

2094
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:03,600
one size fits all. It's like, I just don't I

2095
02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:07,000
don't understand the I don't think it's the Orthodox clips guy.

2096
02:07:07,079 --> 02:07:11,640
But let me see if he clipped it. Ah, here

2097
02:07:11,640 --> 02:07:11,880
it is?

2098
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:12,039
Speaker 26: This?

2099
02:07:12,119 --> 02:07:15,319
Speaker 2: Is it? Like this is something that would need to

2100
02:07:15,359 --> 02:07:16,600
be settled because there's a lot.

2101
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:21,319
Speaker 5: Of or is this it? I think this is it

2102
02:07:22,840 --> 02:07:30,239
debunking the donatus accusation. It may be that one. Let's

2103
02:07:30,239 --> 02:07:41,479
see Protestantism, Tomism. I think it's this one. Like this

2104
02:07:41,960 --> 02:07:44,119
because this Anglican dude that we had this debate with.

2105
02:07:44,399 --> 02:07:45,960
If you want, you can go listen to the whole

2106
02:07:46,079 --> 02:07:48,439
Anglican debate, which is about a month ago. If you

2107
02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:51,760
used to go look at the live streams, you'll find

2108
02:07:51,840 --> 02:07:54,000
the debate I had with the Anglican dude. They got

2109
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:57,800
pretty heated. I think that's the video. And I'm not

2110
02:07:57,960 --> 02:08:00,520
just picking that because you said you get fit th Bucks.

2111
02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:08,000
But I mean he's got this listed as uh rebaptism

2112
02:08:08,079 --> 02:08:11,720
in the church. I actually think there was another. I

2113
02:08:11,760 --> 02:08:13,439
think that one addresses it, but I actually think there

2114
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:17,720
was another one, a different clips channel anyway, Stu, what

2115
02:08:17,800 --> 02:08:18,119
they tell you?

2116
02:08:18,199 --> 02:08:18,359
Speaker 30: Man?

2117
02:08:18,840 --> 02:08:19,560
Speaker 5: Smiley Todd?

2118
02:08:19,600 --> 02:08:19,960
Speaker 3: What's up?

2119
02:08:24,640 --> 02:08:25,319
Speaker 2: Hey? Uh?

2120
02:08:26,039 --> 02:08:29,760
Speaker 28: Before I say something, have your thought naming your thing

2121
02:08:29,880 --> 02:08:31,439
like the dire situation?

2122
02:08:33,560 --> 02:08:34,000
Speaker 9: Nothing like that.

2123
02:08:34,760 --> 02:08:36,479
Speaker 8: Have your thought naming your thing like the.

2124
02:08:36,600 --> 02:08:41,159
Speaker 12: Dire situation, like you know, the I R.

2125
02:08:41,199 --> 02:08:47,239
Speaker 28: E situation or dire straits second of off uh and Yahwehism,

2126
02:08:47,399 --> 02:08:50,760
you know, the proto religion before God I showed himself

2127
02:08:50,800 --> 02:08:53,319
to the ancient Judaeans excess.

2128
02:08:53,479 --> 02:08:54,079
Speaker 5: I don't believe that.

2129
02:08:54,239 --> 02:08:56,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like a shira?

2130
02:08:56,720 --> 02:09:00,199
Speaker 28: Do you think ishira is like a typology of the vehicles,

2131
02:09:00,279 --> 02:09:03,600
like an early concept in the subconscious, or like an

2132
02:09:03,720 --> 02:09:07,439
early version of what humans would consider the Holy ghost,

2133
02:09:07,640 --> 02:09:10,600
like a primordial concept before we understood.

2134
02:09:10,119 --> 02:09:13,079
Speaker 5: There was one God. No, and I don't believe any

2135
02:09:13,079 --> 02:09:16,359
of that. So, squirrel in Oz.

2136
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:29,199
Speaker 4: Are you there?

2137
02:09:29,680 --> 02:09:34,960
Speaker 5: I'm mute, squirrel in Oz there, am.

2138
02:09:35,000 --> 02:09:35,560
Speaker 26: How are you going?

2139
02:09:36,079 --> 02:09:36,880
Speaker 5: What's on your mind?

2140
02:09:38,039 --> 02:09:38,239
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2141
02:09:38,359 --> 02:09:38,800
Speaker 8: Check it out.

2142
02:09:38,880 --> 02:09:42,840
Speaker 26: So I was raised a Protestant and actually kind of

2143
02:09:42,880 --> 02:09:47,039
cost go of all things and observed it. I'm an

2144
02:09:47,119 --> 02:09:51,159
inquirer into Orthodox and I was going through prayer book

2145
02:09:51,319 --> 02:09:55,800
and there is particular prayer in our morning prayers where

2146
02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:59,760
it led towards the Theotokos and some of it I

2147
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:01,000
she just can't get.

2148
02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:03,479
Speaker 8: My head around to where it doesn't seem.

2149
02:10:03,359 --> 02:10:08,039
Speaker 26: Like you're just worshiping the theotoco and asking the Theotokos

2150
02:10:08,119 --> 02:10:08,920
perfect us.

2151
02:10:09,119 --> 02:10:14,479
Speaker 5: Okay, well, she's praying for us, and I understand that objection.

2152
02:10:14,640 --> 02:10:18,079
I did a video that you should watch on the

2153
02:10:18,359 --> 02:10:20,439
Mary is the Arc of the Covenant, So I'd go say,

2154
02:10:20,479 --> 02:10:22,960
watch that forty minute video and that will help, I think,

2155
02:10:23,119 --> 02:10:27,680
to explain the biblical case for the Marian doctrines. But

2156
02:10:27,800 --> 02:10:30,359
it's not faq knight, So look for people who disagree.

2157
02:10:31,119 --> 02:10:33,079
So if you have a disagreement, if you're a Catholic,

2158
02:10:33,079 --> 02:10:35,720
a Protestant, dispensation, so it's not catechumen knight like for

2159
02:10:35,760 --> 02:10:38,840
people who disagree like the Muslim guy. It was a

2160
02:10:38,880 --> 02:10:42,720
great Muslim interaction. Grubs McGee ten dollars. Do you see

2161
02:10:42,760 --> 02:10:49,680
the controversy about Seraphim Holland I did not. His clip

2162
02:10:49,760 --> 02:10:52,640
says works are necessary for salvation. It triggers the Protestants.

2163
02:10:54,399 --> 02:10:56,760
I didn't. I'm not familiar with that clip, but I

2164
02:10:56,840 --> 02:11:00,239
mean it's funny because like people, the probably this is

2165
02:11:00,279 --> 02:11:03,800
gets so tripped up on word concept fallacies, and there's

2166
02:11:03,840 --> 02:11:06,800
absolutely a sense in which, yeah, works aren't necessary for salvation.

2167
02:11:08,920 --> 02:11:11,600
I mean, that's literally what James says. And when you

2168
02:11:11,640 --> 02:11:14,560
look at when Paul says in Galatians five that the

2169
02:11:15,119 --> 02:11:17,800
faith that counts is the one that worketh through love,

2170
02:11:18,239 --> 02:11:20,479
that's Paul saying that a working faith is the only

2171
02:11:20,520 --> 02:11:24,359
one that saves you. Therefore, works are necessary. Cletus says

2172
02:11:24,399 --> 02:11:26,199
for fifty dollars, thank you. My issue, to be clear,

2173
02:11:26,279 --> 02:11:29,319
is that if it's a contradiction with the theology and

2174
02:11:29,399 --> 02:11:35,680
problem of rebaptism without addressing post baptismal sins aka, what

2175
02:11:35,800 --> 02:11:38,079
if God asked me about my sins prior to corrective

2176
02:11:38,159 --> 02:11:42,439
baptism and he considers my first baptism valid. I mean,

2177
02:11:43,399 --> 02:11:46,840
You're becoming Orthodox, so God's led you to Orthodoxy. God's

2178
02:11:46,880 --> 02:11:49,039
not the being counter trying to trick you up on

2179
02:11:49,880 --> 02:11:52,720
the Roman Catholic baptism being valid and then now you're

2180
02:11:52,840 --> 02:11:56,439
I mean, it just doesn't you need to be immersed

2181
02:11:56,479 --> 02:11:59,119
in the Orthodox mindset and stop thinking in a Roman

2182
02:11:59,159 --> 02:12:04,680
Catholic mindset. And so it's not rebaptism, it's just baptism.

2183
02:12:05,680 --> 02:12:09,640
So it's not corrective baptism. It's literally just baptism because

2184
02:12:09,640 --> 02:12:18,600
there's only one baptism. And I don't understand what you

2185
02:12:18,680 --> 02:12:23,920
say contradiction with theology with Roman Catholic theology, because the

2186
02:12:24,039 --> 02:12:27,319
Orthodox position is not that there has to be a

2187
02:12:27,399 --> 02:12:30,520
one size fits all. The six Ecumenical Council, for example,

2188
02:12:30,600 --> 02:12:35,960
says in certain cases people need to be rebaptized or

2189
02:12:36,079 --> 02:12:41,560
quote just baptized because they were baptized into the Eunomian position, right,

2190
02:12:42,399 --> 02:12:47,560
which is a single immersion that presupposes an anti Trinitarian theology.

2191
02:12:48,640 --> 02:12:51,079
And then they talk about other situations where people can

2192
02:12:51,119 --> 02:12:58,560
be received through profession of rejection of the heresies. So

2193
02:12:58,720 --> 02:13:02,000
if it's a schism and everything was done correctly, but

2194
02:13:02,119 --> 02:13:05,279
they might have been just in schism, and so the

2195
02:13:05,319 --> 02:13:09,560
impediment to receiving the grace is removed by the profession

2196
02:13:09,680 --> 02:13:13,880
of error or rejecting the error, there's no need to

2197
02:13:13,960 --> 02:13:19,199
do the ritual over again, right. So that's why, for example,

2198
02:13:19,239 --> 02:13:22,199
the Novationists and the Canons of Nicea are received without

2199
02:13:22,319 --> 02:13:27,159
being rebaptized or revested. It's a case by case basis.

2200
02:13:27,239 --> 02:13:29,239
There's not a one size fits all. That's what I'm

2201
02:13:29,239 --> 02:13:32,079
trying to tell you. It's like you have a presupposition

2202
02:13:32,159 --> 02:13:35,600
of a Roman Catholic mindset that unless Orthodoxy has a

2203
02:13:35,760 --> 02:13:39,520
single way for every jurisdiction and every bishop to do this,

2204
02:13:39,800 --> 02:13:45,279
then it's a quote contradiction. Economia means that there's flexibility

2205
02:13:45,399 --> 02:13:49,039
with the interpretation and application of the canons. It's not

2206
02:13:49,279 --> 02:13:54,399
possible to keep all the canons. They're insane, many of them.

2207
02:13:54,720 --> 02:13:58,800
They're impossible. They're about places that no longer exist. They're

2208
02:13:58,880 --> 02:14:02,840
for their time and for the place going. Clergy can't

2209
02:14:02,920 --> 02:14:07,079
ride horses in ancient canons. That was because in the

2210
02:14:07,119 --> 02:14:11,000
Middle Ages there's nobility, and clergy are not state members

2211
02:14:11,039 --> 02:14:15,399
of the state. They're clergy, so they can't ride on horses,

2212
02:14:15,600 --> 02:14:19,079
which is a sign of nobility. So idiots read the

2213
02:14:19,159 --> 02:14:23,399
canons and they think to precate ride a horse because

2214
02:14:23,439 --> 02:14:26,560
the ancient canon said it. Now both the ancient canon

2215
02:14:26,640 --> 02:14:29,000
said you can't go pray in the synagogue. Yeah, because

2216
02:14:29,039 --> 02:14:31,399
the principle there is not bound by time and space.

2217
02:14:32,039 --> 02:14:37,119
This is an eternal principle. About true worship the Ten Commandments,

2218
02:14:37,960 --> 02:14:40,159
and so you can't go and pray with the Protestants

2219
02:14:40,159 --> 02:14:43,399
and the Roman Catholics in their churches and celebrate the

2220
02:14:43,560 --> 02:14:46,680
Mass and the novs Orto because they don't have the

2221
02:14:46,800 --> 02:14:50,680
Orthodox faith. So it's a violation of the moral principle

2222
02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:54,680
that the canon expresses. That moral principle doesn't change. It

2223
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:56,960
never becomes the case that, oh, we can go and

2224
02:14:57,000 --> 02:14:59,279
pray in the mosques. Now it's cool because the pope

2225
02:14:59,359 --> 02:15:03,520
says so, and he does it. Okay, that doesn't fluctuate.

2226
02:15:04,399 --> 02:15:08,039
The principle stays the same. Right, it's the spirit of

2227
02:15:08,079 --> 02:15:11,680
the law, not the letter of the law that matters.

2228
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:17,000
So what was the spirit of the law that clergy

2229
02:15:17,079 --> 02:15:20,520
can't ride on a horse? Is that clergy are supposed

2230
02:15:20,520 --> 02:15:24,640
to be distinct from the civil state, because the Canons

2231
02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:28,600
of Chalcedon, by the way, which refutes the papacy, say

2232
02:15:28,720 --> 02:15:31,199
that no clergy can be a member of the state.

2233
02:15:32,680 --> 02:15:35,880
And by the eleventh century the Gregorian reforms, the papacy

2234
02:15:35,960 --> 02:15:39,600
becomes a world emperor with armies. That violates the ancient

2235
02:15:39,600 --> 02:15:42,359
canons of Chalcedon. How do I know that that's a

2236
02:15:42,439 --> 02:15:46,520
canon that isn't time bound and fluctuating and based on

2237
02:15:46,600 --> 02:15:50,439
the times, because the principle is forever there that the

2238
02:15:50,600 --> 02:15:53,600
state is not the church. That's not something that evolves

2239
02:15:53,640 --> 02:15:56,800
and fluctuates over time. There are two distinct entities. That's

2240
02:15:56,800 --> 02:16:02,119
the meaning of the Byzantine doubleheaded eagle. And what does

2241
02:16:02,199 --> 02:16:05,760
Jesus say about the law? Right? What does Paul say?

2242
02:16:05,760 --> 02:16:07,520
It's the spirit of the law, it's not the letter

2243
02:16:07,640 --> 02:16:10,760
of the law. And what does every idiot and spurg do.

2244
02:16:11,000 --> 02:16:12,319
They go by the letter of the law and they

2245
02:16:12,359 --> 02:16:16,199
think that it's all like an eternal timeless Like if

2246
02:16:16,279 --> 02:16:19,520
you go to the shows, you're an idolator.

2247
02:16:20,039 --> 02:16:20,159
Speaker 2: Right.

2248
02:16:20,239 --> 02:16:22,640
Speaker 5: There's always some eighteen year old catechumen who converts and

2249
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:24,520
he reads the cantons and says that because it tells

2250
02:16:24,560 --> 02:16:25,880
you you can't go to the shows. If you go

2251
02:16:25,920 --> 02:16:28,600
to the movies, you're damned. It's not talking about the

2252
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:29,079
movie theater.

2253
02:16:29,079 --> 02:16:32,639
Speaker 4: It's talking about the ancient pagan festivals that would require

2254
02:16:32,680 --> 02:16:34,760
you to worship the deities to go to the quote

2255
02:16:34,799 --> 02:16:37,680
shows vol Ven Louve.

2256
02:16:51,000 --> 02:16:53,360
Speaker 5: You're not saved by faith alone. The Bible never says

2257
02:16:53,399 --> 02:16:55,680
you're saved by faith alone. It says saved by faith

2258
02:16:55,719 --> 02:16:58,879
apart from the works of the Jewish law. You added

2259
02:16:58,959 --> 02:17:02,520
the faith alone part. In fact, you are not saved

2260
02:17:02,559 --> 02:17:04,959
by faith alone. Paul says that you're saved by faith

2261
02:17:05,040 --> 02:17:08,760
that works in love. A working faith keeping the commandments

2262
02:17:08,799 --> 02:17:09,879
of love is what saves you.

2263
02:17:11,959 --> 02:17:15,600
Speaker 4: Are you there? Do you want to talk or not? Okay,

2264
02:17:15,680 --> 02:17:17,159
we're back to Cornelius.

2265
02:17:21,040 --> 02:17:26,120
Speaker 8: Hello, Yeah, thank you, and excuse my bad English.

2266
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:29,360
Speaker 2: So I don't know if it's up to debate, and I.

2267
02:17:29,440 --> 02:17:34,639
Speaker 24: Don't know if we even disagree, so I'd have to elaborate.

2268
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:41,920
I'm also the Christian and disagree with the philosophical foundation

2269
02:17:42,120 --> 02:17:43,760
of libertarianism.

2270
02:17:44,600 --> 02:17:46,200
Speaker 8: Yet I don't disagree with the.

2271
02:17:47,920 --> 02:17:55,280
Speaker 24: Conclusions, especially the economic conclusions like ownership of the body

2272
02:17:55,479 --> 02:17:58,520
and of your own body, and therefore.

2273
02:18:00,079 --> 02:18:02,000
Speaker 5: I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that.

2274
02:18:02,079 --> 02:18:03,000
Vin Low, what's up?

2275
02:18:10,799 --> 02:18:14,879
Speaker 42: Yeah, what do you think is the.

2276
02:18:14,920 --> 02:18:16,600
Speaker 2: Most distinct way of.

2277
02:18:18,559 --> 02:18:23,159
Speaker 28: Of like getting out of the what's it called Coptic Church? Like,

2278
02:18:23,280 --> 02:18:27,399
what's the strongest argument to why it's a false heresy?

2279
02:18:35,200 --> 02:18:38,280
Speaker 5: Maybe the two Letters of cyrilta sixth Census, which admits

2280
02:18:38,360 --> 02:18:41,280
that he has a human nature after the resurrection.

2281
02:18:43,520 --> 02:18:46,200
Speaker 28: H Yeah, because I feel like a lot of Coptic

2282
02:18:46,760 --> 02:18:49,799
apologetics is that we have the same funny hats as

2283
02:18:49,840 --> 02:18:52,520
you do, so we're equally true, if not more so.

2284
02:18:53,200 --> 02:18:55,319
It's more obsessed with the aesthetics of it than the

2285
02:18:55,479 --> 02:18:56,600
actual theology of it.

2286
02:18:57,280 --> 02:19:01,399
Speaker 5: Well, it's funny because they're they're basically losing their iconographic tradition.

2287
02:19:01,639 --> 02:19:03,719
So if they're going to be obsessed with aesthetics, they

2288
02:19:03,920 --> 02:19:08,200
should have maintained the iconographic tradition. But a lot of

2289
02:19:08,639 --> 02:19:12,000
those churches have a giant TV screen. You got a

2290
02:19:12,719 --> 02:19:16,440
Armenian Orthodox church so called, and you'll find giant TV

2291
02:19:16,559 --> 02:19:20,040
screens within in the sanctuary, in the service. So it's

2292
02:19:20,079 --> 02:19:22,639
hard to take that very seriously when you've got big TV,

2293
02:19:22,840 --> 02:19:24,399
like it's like a sports bar in there with a

2294
02:19:24,440 --> 02:19:27,639
bunch of TV screens. I remember when Rouche was leaving

2295
02:19:27,799 --> 02:19:30,719
Armenian Orthodoxy, he said he couldn't believe that there's all

2296
02:19:30,760 --> 02:19:33,479
these giant TV screens in there in the surface. So

2297
02:19:34,520 --> 02:19:37,719
I mean, yeah, you kind of have to look at

2298
02:19:37,760 --> 02:19:41,200
the theology. You can't solve it by like, you know,

2299
02:19:41,360 --> 02:19:44,959
who's got the more cool aesthetic, And of course Coptics

2300
02:19:45,000 --> 02:19:50,319
don't have a cool aesthetic, So sorry, I don't see

2301
02:19:50,319 --> 02:19:55,200
anybody else, so there's no more questions. I don't see

2302
02:19:55,200 --> 02:19:58,520
anymore super chats. Maybe we'll call it a night, Big Chunk,

2303
02:19:59,120 --> 02:20:01,680
Why did God make the world? Why didn't God make

2304
02:20:01,719 --> 02:20:04,200
the world smaller in size so then everyone could hear

2305
02:20:04,239 --> 02:20:08,760
the gospel? That's really funny, dude, Van five dollars funds

2306
02:20:08,799 --> 02:20:12,479
towards your plane ticket to Nashville so that you can

2307
02:20:12,559 --> 02:20:15,159
host an IRL event or do you stand up at Zany's.

2308
02:20:15,840 --> 02:20:19,360
I don't think Zanies is gonna invite me anytime soon,

2309
02:20:19,479 --> 02:20:24,079
but people thought my crowd work at the Horror Convention

2310
02:20:24,280 --> 02:20:26,760
was pretty funny. I wish that I'd done some crowd

2311
02:20:26,840 --> 02:20:29,159
work with the Horror Convention people. I could have really

2312
02:20:29,280 --> 02:20:31,680
ripped on them. They might have thrown me out, though,

2313
02:20:31,680 --> 02:20:34,440
because I don't I don't know if. I don't know

2314
02:20:34,479 --> 02:20:36,120
if they could take I just don't know how the

2315
02:20:36,200 --> 02:20:38,239
bunch of horror weirdos are going to take my jokes.

2316
02:20:38,319 --> 02:20:41,840
But it would be fun to do an event in Nashville. Again.

2317
02:20:41,879 --> 02:20:49,840
Appreciate that vein so hybe, she's.

2318
02:20:49,680 --> 02:20:50,719
Speaker 11: So high.

2319
02:20:53,360 --> 02:20:53,559
Speaker 2: Yep.

2320
02:20:55,840 --> 02:20:58,760
Speaker 10: I just wanted to say, do you think that the

2321
02:20:58,879 --> 02:21:02,879
ethan Orthodox in the Oriental Orthodox are closer to.

2322
02:21:04,360 --> 02:21:06,079
Speaker 2: Reunification.

2323
02:21:09,040 --> 02:21:11,840
Speaker 5: I don't know. I mean maybe because I.

2324
02:21:11,920 --> 02:21:14,920
Speaker 2: Do believe that both churches have.

2325
02:21:18,040 --> 02:21:23,680
Speaker 10: Affirmed the same Christology no in the nineties, I believe,

2326
02:21:24,079 --> 02:21:25,600
if I'm not mistaken.

2327
02:21:25,760 --> 02:21:28,280
Speaker 5: I mean, all of these ecumenical gatherings where we all

2328
02:21:28,319 --> 02:21:30,440
get together and pretend we're saying the same thing, they

2329
02:21:30,479 --> 02:21:34,079
don't really accomplish much. I don't really keep up with

2330
02:21:35,079 --> 02:21:37,920
that kind of stuff. Maybe they're moving in the right

2331
02:21:38,000 --> 02:21:41,959
direction towards us, or it's all just kind of everybody

2332
02:21:42,079 --> 02:21:44,680
holding hands and singing combine and pretending that we have

2333
02:21:44,760 --> 02:21:49,120
the same theology. I don't know. I want to make

2334
02:21:49,120 --> 02:21:51,399
sure I didn't miss the super chatus as I missed

2335
02:21:51,440 --> 02:21:55,639
his earlier Big Chuck. I think, didn't you say the

2336
02:21:55,680 --> 02:21:58,840
same joke earlier? Because I did see that joke. Maybe

2337
02:21:58,879 --> 02:22:00,399
I just didn't read the joke because it was so bad.

2338
02:22:03,440 --> 02:22:04,440
I guess I just missed it.

2339
02:22:04,600 --> 02:22:07,440
Speaker 4: But I mean, bro, you're throwing down dollars super chats,

2340
02:22:07,440 --> 02:22:09,399
which dollar's not even worth.

2341
02:22:09,239 --> 02:22:13,639
Speaker 5: A dollar anymore. Dollar's worth like sixty cents, So basically

2342
02:22:13,680 --> 02:22:16,799
you're throwing a sixty cents super chat. But I appreciate

2343
02:22:16,879 --> 02:22:21,239
it better than a no sense super chat. There's still

2344
02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:24,879
eighty people here. No one has a disagreement. We had

2345
02:22:24,959 --> 02:22:29,440
one feisty Muslim who said all I has created attributes

2346
02:22:29,639 --> 02:22:31,440
and then he walked it back. I was like, oops,

2347
02:22:35,479 --> 02:22:39,360
eighty people, no one disagrees. I'm gonna assume everybody has

2348
02:22:39,520 --> 02:22:46,479
everything correct. Nobody. Father Deacon missed out on this one.

2349
02:22:46,559 --> 02:22:49,520
He missed. What was that one guy saying that he

2350
02:22:49,639 --> 02:22:51,799
spoke to Jesus and that Jesus was going to give

2351
02:22:51,840 --> 02:22:56,239
everyone bread. That dude, that dude was. That dude was

2352
02:22:56,360 --> 02:23:07,600
tripping me out. Tallahose Patriot, Hey, jam in my car

2353
02:23:07,719 --> 02:23:12,000
right now. Are you able to hear me? Yes, sir, awesome? Yeah.

2354
02:23:12,079 --> 02:23:15,079
Speaker 46: So I I was baptized Russian Orthodox as an infant.

2355
02:23:15,600 --> 02:23:15,680
Speaker 2: Uh.

2356
02:23:15,799 --> 02:23:18,639
Speaker 46: Spent most of my life in Protestant churches for some

2357
02:23:18,799 --> 02:23:20,360
like complicated family reasons.

2358
02:23:20,959 --> 02:23:22,000
Speaker 2: And I've been in a.

2359
02:23:22,040 --> 02:23:25,840
Speaker 46: MacArthur ask church in Tallahassee the past handful of years.

2360
02:23:25,879 --> 02:23:30,000
But I'm heavily exploring Orthodoxy and your uh, you know

2361
02:23:30,120 --> 02:23:35,120
work and advocacy has been very impactful on that, along

2362
02:23:35,159 --> 02:23:36,840
with some of the you know ad on accounts like

2363
02:23:36,959 --> 02:23:40,280
Orthodox Luigi and you know others on here. But I

2364
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:41,840
wanted to ask, and I know you've got to talk

2365
02:23:41,840 --> 02:23:43,799
about this like before. I mean, probably a lot of

2366
02:23:43,799 --> 02:23:45,719
times that you could you asked us a bunch, But

2367
02:23:46,920 --> 02:23:49,319
I feel like one thing I've kind of wrestled with

2368
02:23:50,239 --> 02:23:52,159
as to like if I was to go, like I guess,

2369
02:23:52,920 --> 02:23:54,959
go full Orthodox or come back into the church or

2370
02:23:54,959 --> 02:23:56,799
however you want to work that, you know, like how

2371
02:23:56,879 --> 02:23:59,959
I would then view you know, Protestant Christians, reform Christian

2372
02:24:00,079 --> 02:24:05,120
et cetera. Because I feel like I've read conflicting on that.

2373
02:24:05,280 --> 02:24:08,559
You know, like I've read some Orthodox Church to say, well,

2374
02:24:08,680 --> 02:24:10,719
you know, I'm not going to say that they're not saved,

2375
02:24:10,959 --> 02:24:13,399
but they're not in the fullness of biblical truth. But

2376
02:24:13,479 --> 02:24:16,959
then I know there's some Orthodox hardcore with soteiology, So like,

2377
02:24:17,000 --> 02:24:17,959
what would you say about that?

2378
02:24:20,399 --> 02:24:23,280
Speaker 5: I mean, again, I can't judge an individual person in

2379
02:24:23,399 --> 02:24:27,239
terms of their ultimate destiny. But what we can say

2380
02:24:27,399 --> 02:24:29,520
is what we're told to say by the Church, which

2381
02:24:29,639 --> 02:24:32,719
is that outside the Church, you're outside the ark. And

2382
02:24:33,079 --> 02:24:35,120
you're not just outside the arc, you're also in a

2383
02:24:35,239 --> 02:24:42,040
situation professing heterodox ideas. There's no Christology outside the Orthodox Church.

2384
02:24:42,120 --> 02:24:47,120
That's the Orthodox Christology. There's no uncreated grace in Protestants

2385
02:24:47,120 --> 02:24:50,200
pseudo sacraments. In fact, Protestants aren't even called a church

2386
02:24:50,319 --> 02:24:53,760
in the Canons. They're called a parachurch because they don't

2387
02:24:53,760 --> 02:24:57,120
even have apisotic succession. So you don't even have what's

2388
02:24:57,280 --> 02:25:00,360
necessary to have a quote church, because the church built

2389
02:25:00,440 --> 02:25:03,120
on the foundation stones of the apostles. As Ephesian says,

2390
02:25:03,559 --> 02:25:06,840
that means the succession of the bishops in the church.

2391
02:25:06,959 --> 02:25:10,120
So while there may be sincere people in Protestanism, and

2392
02:25:10,159 --> 02:25:13,159
the Holy Spirit is definitely working in people's hearts to

2393
02:25:13,280 --> 02:25:17,319
bring them to Orthodoxy, we're not in any position to say, well,

2394
02:25:17,639 --> 02:25:21,520
the sufficient means of grace are in Protestantism. If anyone

2395
02:25:21,760 --> 02:25:25,360
was saved in quote Protestantism, it's in spite of Protestantism,

2396
02:25:25,440 --> 02:25:28,600
and it's because they're united to the mystical body of

2397
02:25:28,639 --> 02:25:30,920
the Church, which is the Orthodox Church. It's not because

2398
02:25:30,920 --> 02:25:35,559
of anything to do with quote Protestantism, because it's the

2399
02:25:35,680 --> 02:25:39,319
Church is the arc. So and again, when we look

2400
02:25:39,360 --> 02:25:43,719
at the distinctives of Protestantism, what do we find in

2401
02:25:43,760 --> 02:25:46,200
the first thousand years of Christianity that have the distinctives

2402
02:25:46,239 --> 02:25:50,840
of Protestantism. All the heretical sects, the Montanists, the Massallians,

2403
02:25:51,639 --> 02:25:59,440
the Econoclasts, the Pallagians. I mean, all of these different

2404
02:25:59,440 --> 02:26:02,520
positions that many, many Protestant groups hold. We find that.

2405
02:26:05,000 --> 02:26:07,000
I'm not talking about John MacArthur. I know John MacArthur

2406
02:26:07,040 --> 02:26:09,639
wouldn't be a Pelagian. I'm just saying that, you know,

2407
02:26:09,959 --> 02:26:12,520
we look at these different groups. There are Pellagian Protestant groups,

2408
02:26:12,559 --> 02:26:15,879
there's Unitarian Protestant groups, there's anti Trinitarian Protestant groups, there's

2409
02:26:16,399 --> 02:26:21,319
you know, you name it. Those are all the ancient heresies.

2410
02:26:21,479 --> 02:26:25,719
So it's like saying, there's nice people in the ancient heresies.

2411
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:28,319
So like, is it okay if they just stay in

2412
02:26:28,639 --> 02:26:31,520
the ancient heresies? No, I'm not. I know you're not

2413
02:26:31,639 --> 02:26:35,319
saying that. I'm just saying, like, I can't sit here

2414
02:26:35,319 --> 02:26:37,239
and tell individual people you're going to hell, you're going

2415
02:26:37,280 --> 02:26:38,399
to hell, you're going to hell, you're going to help.

2416
02:26:38,440 --> 02:26:40,600
That's not what we're told to do. Paul says, what

2417
02:26:40,799 --> 02:26:42,879
do I have to do with judging those that are without?

2418
02:26:43,639 --> 02:26:46,360
We judge those that are within, but we tell them

2419
02:26:46,760 --> 02:26:49,120
to come in, and whether they do or don't is

2420
02:26:49,159 --> 02:26:52,079
they're up to them. Yo yo, yo, five dollars, I

2421
02:26:52,159 --> 02:26:55,120
watch your Holy Mountain review today? Can you recommend other

2422
02:26:55,239 --> 02:26:57,840
titles to watch? I don't recommend you watch Holy Mountain

2423
02:26:57,879 --> 02:27:02,559
that the movie is gross and blasphemous because it's such

2424
02:27:02,600 --> 02:27:06,200
an important, so called, you know, a cult film. We

2425
02:27:06,360 --> 02:27:09,200
watched it a few years ago and it's kind of

2426
02:27:09,239 --> 02:27:12,000
a The ending was kind of anti clembactict. It did

2427
02:27:12,079 --> 02:27:18,520
have a couple of interesting insights into like the cooming

2428
02:27:18,639 --> 02:27:21,280
smart cities if you remember that section in the in

2429
02:27:21,360 --> 02:27:24,280
the video, and the sex bots is hinted at. So

2430
02:27:24,360 --> 02:27:27,600
there's some pretty wild, sort of predictive stuff in there,

2431
02:27:27,680 --> 02:27:30,520
kind of like Metropolis from Fritz Lang. But I mean,

2432
02:27:30,520 --> 02:27:33,360
if you're looking for weird occult movies that have predictive elements,

2433
02:27:33,479 --> 02:27:36,399
I just did a talk on this called Satanic Cinema,

2434
02:27:37,920 --> 02:27:39,760
and I listed a ton of movies that would be

2435
02:27:40,760 --> 02:27:43,399
kind of in that vein of having predictive elements, and

2436
02:27:43,680 --> 02:27:46,399
first one that comes to mind will being Metropolis. But

2437
02:27:46,479 --> 02:27:52,959
I don't recommend any of the any job Erowski's films

2438
02:27:53,000 --> 02:27:56,159
are just gross and blasphemous. All right, Well, I don't

2439
02:27:56,159 --> 02:27:58,280
see anybody else, so thank you guys. It was a

2440
02:27:58,319 --> 02:28:04,879
lot of fun tonight, just getting ready for church tomorrow. Everybody.

2441
02:28:05,000 --> 02:28:08,639
Hopefully you can make it out to church and everybody

2442
02:28:08,680 --> 02:28:11,000
have a good night. Oh by the way, head on

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