WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:05.400 You're listening to an air Wave media podcast. The body 2 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.160 of this creature walks ashore along the East River, So 3 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:09.679 what exactly is it? 4 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:12.960 The cannibalistic attack that led police to shoot. 5 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.359 A man they say was gnawing at the face of 6 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:16.879 someone else in the street. 7 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:19.760 George believes that he has finally found proof of the 8 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:23.800 infamous Blochness Monster with a photograph recently taken. 9 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.359 While it's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen. 10 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:31.120 Before, a giant, hairy creature. 11 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:35.799 Part eight, Part Matt in Luckness, a twenty four a 12 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.840 mile long bottomless lake in the Highlands of Scotland, in 13 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:40.920 a creature known as the Luckness Monster. 14 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:05.079 Mormstert. 15 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.400 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm 16 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.799 your host Blake Smith. Together with skeptical investigators doctor Karen 17 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:14.799 Stoleso and Ben Radford, we help you find the facts 18 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.920 behind creatures of legend and lore. This is our twenty 19 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.239 twelve Monster Year in Review, and we welcome back Sharon 20 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.400 Hill of the Doubtful News website. We're going to cover 21 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:26.159 a lot of stories in the next hour or so 22 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:28.280 and links to all of those or in the show notes, 23 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:31.280 plus some that we didn't have time to dig in on, 24 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:33.599 So be sure and check out those notes for all 25 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:36.519 that fun stuff. Now let's get straight into the year 26 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:43.040 in review with some mormstert. Okay, so we're bringing back 27 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:47.079 Sharon Hill again. By the way, sharing your last visit 28 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:48.400 with us was really popular. 29 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:49.920 So yeah, well I told you? 30 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:51.719 Why did you? 31 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:52.239 Yeah? 32 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:52.719 Awesome? 33 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:53.719 Is it because you were on it? 34 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.239 Well? I would like to think so, but it was 35 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.319 the last one before you took like an extended break. 36 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.760 So you think that the listeners just started piling. 37 00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:05.920 Up, people kept checking back. 38 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:08.520 I'll listen to the Sharon win again. See what happens. 39 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:10.039 Maybe it'll get better. 40 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:13.639 Anything will happen. Well, you know, did I miss anything? 41 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:15.879 Was there any monster years in twenty third, twenty twelve, 42 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:16.680 whatever year it. 43 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:18.280 Was, it was a pretty good monster year. 44 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:18.800 Yeah, it was. 45 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.639 Really it was a stinky ghost here, you're right, You're right. 46 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:25.000 I mean with the ghost owners losing one of their 47 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:26.280 key members. 48 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:28.719 And there were there were really not that many great 49 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:30.919 ghost stories, but there were. You know, I think it 50 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:35.319 was definitely a good monster year. Good how you look at. 51 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:37.520 It, it was a pretty thin year for ufologies. I 52 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:39.800 recall I as soon to recall reading some story about 53 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.439 how people were grousing that the UFO reports have been down. 54 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:45.520 So maybe maybe this really was the year of the 55 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:47.879 of cryptology. 56 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.080 Maybe especially sea monsters. Those things come in waves. 57 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:59.400 No, no, somebody muting. So is this year any bigger 58 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:04.800 than last year? The same as pot stories? 59 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:10.840 Well, I think definitely. The Bigfoot issue is huge this year. 60 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:15.639 There's no doubt about that. And that's propelled by the media. 61 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:18.439 I've never seen so many Bigfoot stories. 62 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:20.439 And when you say there's no doubt about that. 63 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.280 No, I don't doubt that at all. 64 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:27.560 You don't doubt that the big year right right? Right? 65 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:29.199 Highly doubtful. 66 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:30.400 That's fine. 67 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:35.039 So yeah, I've never seen so much speculation and interest 68 00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:40.039 in that, and it's I got really tired of it fast. 69 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:43.240 Well, okay, I don't understand. Okay, I want to kind 70 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:47.439 of go through the year chronologically, but but what is 71 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:51.479 going on? It's like every week in this last month 72 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:53.159 of the year or the last two months or so, 73 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:56.919 there's been some new Bigfoot story and then they fade out, 74 00:03:56.919 --> 00:03:58.840 and then another big Foot story and it fades out. 75 00:03:59.199 --> 00:03:59.919 And why is this? 76 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:01.719 Yeah? Is this just people? 77 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:02.240 Is this? 78 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:05.479 Uh? Is this internet link cooring? Is there? Is there 79 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.240 really like none of these stories seem to be playing 80 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:10.840 at all. The only one that really seems like a 81 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:14.599 real story is the psych study of DNA. Everything else 82 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.000 seems like I have a rumor, I have a rumor, 83 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:19.279 you know, and then nothing happens. 84 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:21.600 It does seem to be a lot of one upmanship 85 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:25.399 trying to go on here to me, and I'm just 86 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:30.519 an observer to these various researchers that are online. They 87 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:35.240 like attention and they want to have something to grab 88 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:38.439 the public's attention, and whether they make it up or not. 89 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.000 So you have lots of bloggers who have ads all 90 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.120 over their sites who want those hits. And that may 91 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.199 be a real cynical way of looking at it, but 92 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:53.279 I it's absolutely what's happening. The Bigfoot bloggers load their 93 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.560 sites with links or with ads, and they want that attention, 94 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.040 they want those hits, so they will actually just repeat 95 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:01.279 the same stories over and over again in a different way. 96 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:08.319 They will put rumors on their complete speculation, strange coincidences 97 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:12.519 that they associate with big Foot. It's just it's it's 98 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:13.959 been difficult to look at. 99 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:18.160 The rumors bug me because they keep being unattributed or 100 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:21.480 second and third hand that sort of thing. 101 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:23.879 Well, Sharon, let me ask you this. I mean, do 102 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.959 you do you given that there's all this all this 103 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:29.360 you know, speculation and rumors and stuff going on, and 104 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:33.120 as you've noticed, it's probably largely for the hits. Is 105 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:35.600 is it just sort of the short sightedness in that 106 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:39.759 the bigfoot community just doesn't care? I mean, does you know. 107 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.319 One one way to look at is that is that 108 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:44.759 they just just don't give it, and you know, they're 109 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.240 just going for the short term. The other angle to 110 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:49.399 look at is that, well, you know that all this 111 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:52.120 just does nothing make the big potters look bad. And 112 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:54.560 for as much as they complain about the skeptics making 113 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.959 them look bad, uh, they do far more internal damage 114 00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:58.920 than we've ever done. 115 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.959 But I'll look at it more optimistically. I think they're 116 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.120 too involved in it. I think that they are so 117 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.040 engrossed in this idea that it's out there for them 118 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:14.079 to find. They are blind to any other possible interpretation. 119 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:21.560 And I believe that Melba Ketchum thinks she has something important. 120 00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:26.360 And I believe that some of these big foot hunters 121 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.639 think that they've had encounters, you know, and that the 122 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.160 creatures out there there's one houling back at them in 123 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:37.040 the woods and making noises back at them. They really 124 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:39.920 believe that, I guess that's optimistic, but I don't think 125 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:42.519 they're fooling I think they're just fooling themselves. 126 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:45.600 Right, But if they really believe it, then would they 127 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.639 have recognize that they're only harming their own credibility even 128 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:52.120 assuming they completely believe it by doing the stuff. I mean, 129 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:54.240 you would think that they would recognize, hey, you know, 130 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:56.759 this is just making us look stupid because we're just 131 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.079 recycling the rum or the minute and not looking the 132 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.160 long term. I mean, even if they totally believe. 133 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:04.639 Wall, if they were really concerned about credibility, would they'd 134 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:09.560 be involved in bigfoot research? Because I know, even as 135 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:13.279 a skeptical person who's interested in the topic, just even 136 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.439 mentioning it gets you dismissed by a lot of people, 137 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.160 no matter what your position on it is. 138 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:21.959 It's like, I don't think they're that self effacing anyway. 139 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:23.519 You know. 140 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.680 Another thing is that they are not in any way 141 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:30.680 a monolithic community. There is ragtag and diverse a group 142 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.319 as any of the skeptical community is, I suppose, and 143 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:38.560 oh boy do they Yeah, yeah, they are also self devouring. 144 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:42.439 It may be that our nature is to form tribes 145 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:47.240 and to fight other tribes. So it maybe the reason 146 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:49.600 that bothers me so much is I don't want to 147 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:52.439 be in a tribe. I mean, I kind of like 148 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.199 the idea of being in a group. But you know, 149 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:59.079 with well, you know what, I feel an affinity to 150 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:02.800 bigfooters because I spent so much of my youth interested 151 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:07.199 in believing in the topic, and so when I came 152 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.360 to the conclusion that there wasn't sufficient evidence, I didn't 153 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.879 stop being interested in the topic. I still find it 154 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.480 very interesting, you know, I still go back to the 155 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:19.079 old books. In fact, I think this year twenty twelve 156 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:21.639 is the year I did the most nostalgic thing ever 157 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:27.079 and got as many old nineteen seventies paranormal documentaries as 158 00:08:27.079 --> 00:08:30.480 I could track down and started going back through them 159 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:35.039 just to see, you know, what's changed since the seventies. 160 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.360 And the amazing thing to me was I did a 161 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:41.960 lot of research in watching old ancient astronaut movies and 162 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.279 it's exactly the same material as they're using in the 163 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.120 modern documentaries, except it looks better than new ones. I mean, 164 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:51.519 it is exactly the same, the same skulls, the same 165 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:55.759 fake airplanes, the same little idols, the same sculpture's drawing sites. 166 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:00.759 Everything's the same. And not much has changed Bigfoot either, 167 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:03.679 except for this potential DNA research. 168 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:06.519 No, And with all the technology we have and the 169 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:08.559 more people are able to stay out in the woods 170 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:12.200 or get farther in the woods, and we still have nothing. 171 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:14.679 That's that's my major gripe. 172 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.679 Well, I think we're just waiting for Jeff Meldrum's bloom 173 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:20.759 research to be funded, right. 174 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:21.840 Just blim yes, that's right. 175 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:27.799 Okay, So let's talk about Bigfoot twenty twelve. So I 176 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:30.559 look at sharing you put together this wonderful list. Can 177 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:31.759 we put this in the show notes? 178 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:32.039 Is that? 179 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:32.360 Okay? 180 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.039 Sure? I was going to do a blog post on it, 181 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:36.720 but that's all right. 182 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.960 Well okay, well I imagined your blog post would be 183 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:43.559 like the illuminated version of this, right, that's fine. And 184 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.519 when I say illuminated, I'm talking about you know, like 185 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:50.679 the ancient manuscripts with pictures, not our illuminati masters who 186 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:52.279 fund this podcast. 187 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:53.080 Thank you very much. 188 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:56.600 I just want to clear that up. So I see 189 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:00.720 the first thing you put on here was the catchup project, right, 190 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.480 So that been that being because that is continuing since 191 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:06.320 two thousand and eight. 192 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:10.720 Yes, it's got a long and sorted history. It's got 193 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.960 people coming and going, it's got secrets, it's got intrigue, 194 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:17.519 it's got it's got everything. It's so well shot, it. 195 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.480 Does everything but evidence. 196 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:28.519 So oddly enough, yeah, it's I spent weeks trying to 197 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:31.240 figure out the chronology of all this, and the worst 198 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.080 part was probably trying to, like we talked about, get 199 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:39.840 sources for all these comments rumors here or are there 200 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:41.840 about what was going on with the project, how the 201 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:44.679 samples were produced, or who who was giving samples to 202 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:48.600 her and what she was doing with them. That that's 203 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:50.600 what it took so long to sort through all that. 204 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:54.039 So you know, we're at this point now. I think that, Well, 205 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.679 she did just do an interview on Coast to Coast AM. 206 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:00.200 I thought was really fascinating because it was I was 207 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:02.840 actually listening to her tell the story at that point, 208 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:04.559 which was great because then I don't have to worry 209 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:08.799 that it was rumor or speculation, and it was. It 210 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:12.840 was really interesting because she admitted that things went terribly 211 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:16.480 wrong for her and it did not go the way 212 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:19.639 that she wanted to. Things went awry, and she she 213 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:21.600 actually said she wouldn't do it again. 214 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:24.679 Wrong in terms of what because not everybody heard the 215 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:28.600 just the evidence or just the whole story or what 216 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:29.320 went wrong. 217 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:34.559 She did not expect the reaction that she got. She 218 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.879 did not anticipate, so she says she didn't anticipate that 219 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.399 the results would turn out the way they did, and 220 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:45.799 then she she was very taken aback by the nastiness 221 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.080 she received by No No, not only the people who 222 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.600 didn't believe what she said, but also the people in 223 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:54.200 the big book community that had been her supporters, and 224 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:56.679 then felt I guess she felt like they turned on her. 225 00:11:57.559 --> 00:11:59.919 And I think she saw that there was a lot 226 00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:04.519 of backbiting going on. You know, they were trying this 227 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:06.639 one upmanship type thing, Who's going to be the first 228 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:10.840 one to get the big scoop on Bigfoot? And she 229 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.720 really feels like she has something to show, and I 230 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:17.600 none of us know what she has right now, and 231 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:18.480 I don't know when. 232 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:21.080 Well they turn on her in her mind. 233 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:25.399 I'm not sure she really explained that. But one thing 234 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.639 I found that was interesting is when she got into 235 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.639 this Bigfoot sampling, she says that she didn't know anything 236 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.559 about the community at all, which is probably true, and 237 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:37.159 she ended up dealing with some people that weren't she 238 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:40.039 calls weren't ethical. That's what she says. They weren't ethical. 239 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.120 So I don't know the backstory of what they did 240 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:45.000 to her. But there was some corporations that were founded. 241 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:47.200 They were supposed to have business deals together and things 242 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.799 fell through, and there was lawyers involved, and there's some animosity, 243 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.840 so it I'm not sure we'll know what happens unless 244 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.000 she writes some sort of book about it. 245 00:12:58.080 --> 00:12:59.759 So she's not naming names at all. 246 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:02.039 She doesn't have to. I mean, if you look, you 247 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:05.960 would find who those people are. Yeah, yeah, but she 248 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:08.440 didn't name names on the last interview that she did. 249 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.039 And then what I think also happened is the psych 250 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:18.399 study was progressing. That started in the summer in early summer, 251 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.200 and then that was supposed to end the end of 252 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:23.639 this year, and then the paper should be coming out 253 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:27.519 in twenty thirteen. I think that there was this rush 254 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:31.039 to come out with this DNA evidence again to scoop 255 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.759 each other. They're nervous about getting it out first. At 256 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:38.120 the same time, finding Bigfoot people were even getting into 257 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.919 the DNA testing on their show, so there seemed to 258 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:43.519 be this mad rush at the end of the year 259 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:46.000 to be the first one to announce DNA results. 260 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:49.120 Although, correct me if I'm wrong, But the Psych's Oxford 261 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:53.360 DNA project is totally separate from anything the catchment is doing, right, 262 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:56.120 I mean they're using two totally different databases and everything 263 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:59.519 else like that. So yep, well, right, you're using. 264 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:06.720 The same d database, but they're using different samples, right, so. 265 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:07.960 There may even be split samples. I don't know. 266 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:08.960 Yeah. 267 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.399 Well, the other thing is Kenchen already had her samples, 268 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.360 didn't she she didn't like put an open call out for. 269 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:14.519 She did put an open call. 270 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:16.080 She okay, that's interesting. 271 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.879 Cool, she got on Coast to Coast am. She says 272 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.200 that they when she first appeared on that show, she 273 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:24.600 put out in an open call and her and David 274 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:27.559 Plaidi's were on that show, and then after that they 275 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:30.320 did even a number of additional samples. HM. 276 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.399 See Bigfoot listens to NPR. So sure there's the wrong 277 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:40.279 audience and no, that's that's fascinating to me. I really 278 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:42.080 am quite interested to see what comes out of the 279 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:42.840 psych study. 280 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.559 And it's interesting that a couple of the other bigger 281 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.960 stories sort of intertwined into that one. They all sort 282 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:53.480 of started merging together. Uh, the Sierra Kills episode that 283 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:56.679 was that probably the most dramatic story of the year. 284 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:01.200 Where the least dramatic. Inde, I don't think. 285 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.960 It's over yet. I think there's still stuff that's going 286 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:04.879 to come out about that. 287 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.720 Where can you give us a background on the right? 288 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:12.120 Bear hunter and his buddy were on a back roads 289 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:17.120 in California National Park and pretty remote area, and then, 290 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.919 as they tell it, something was coming towards them on 291 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:23.360 two legs, sort of like a grayish odd color, and 292 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.320 Hunter number one shot it, and it jumped into the 293 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.720 bush and they ran after it, and then they came 294 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:36.120 across two smaller creatures, presumably child creatures of the same thing, 295 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:40.759 and at one point they felt slightly threatened and they 296 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:43.159 shot one of the small ones and the same hunter 297 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.759 and it died in his arms, and he describes it 298 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:47.879 as sort of a cross between a bear and a 299 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.559 gorilla or something like that. He describes the face and 300 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:53.000 the fur and everything, and then they high tailed it 301 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:55.440 out of there. They came back, as they say, two 302 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.200 weeks ago, this is two weeks later. This was disputed 303 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.759 and couldn't find the body. There was snow on the 304 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:03.679 ground and they found a piece of flesh with hair 305 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:05.840 on it, and they took that and that became what's 306 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:11.159 known as the Bigfoot steak, and that supposedly was put 307 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.960 in to Ketchum study, but they also studied it tested 308 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.559 it independently, and recently that result of the independent test 309 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:23.679 came back that it was bear. Meanwhile, the Ketchum results 310 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:28.120 suggests she has sort of suggested that she believed the 311 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:32.120 story and that that sample was part of her bigfoot database. 312 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.320 So that's not clear what happened at all. But now 313 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.440 he's changing his story. He was afraid he's going to 314 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.519 get into trouble because he may have shot a human 315 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.200 or something close to a human, and it just got 316 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.360 really nuts. 317 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.240 A bigfoot human bear thing. 318 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:52.240 Well, yeah, but he didn't. He also come back and 319 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:56.639 say that the results were something like twenty something percent 320 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.039 bear and then seventy percent unknown. 321 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.919 I thought that it had his DNA in it. 322 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.599 Yeah, it's the whole anytime, the story ever since we've talked, 323 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.720 did our second interview with Todd des Hotel, that whole 324 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:16.519 unknown thing seems really suspicious now whenever I hear it. 325 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:21.279 It's unknown doesn't mean mystery creature. Apparently unknown means crap. 326 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:26.240 And then I'm sorry. 327 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.319 So you think something more is going to come of 328 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:28.839 this story? 329 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.079 He was saying, I don't think the truth has come 330 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.279 out at all. I don't know what the truth is 331 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:36.559 because it's so muddled at this point, we may never 332 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.920 know what it is. I think we just have to 333 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:44.960 wait to see what Ketchen's data says if we can 334 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.119 read it, because it might be in Russian when it 335 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:51.440 comes out. Which is another thread that's woven through this 336 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:57.200 story is the Russian contingent that they study the yetti 337 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:00.319 over there. They are very open to the idea that 338 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:02.680 it's real that he lives in caves, that he's all 339 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.920 over the villages, and they try to bring tourists over 340 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:09.000 and it's a very different world over there. They love 341 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:14.960 their yetti though, and apparently they said to Melba, yeah, sure, welcome, 342 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.480 welcome to Russia. We'll we'll publish the paper over here. 343 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.960 Yeah, well, why don't you tell us about that, because 344 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.599 that's a good lead into the Russian claims about the 345 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.400 yetti hare where earlier this year they said that they 346 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.240 were I think proved positive or ninety nine percent or something, 347 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:30.960 and that was the one where Jeff Meldrum was there, 348 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:33.359 and it turned into this big fiasco. Can you can 349 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:34.519 you recap that for us? 350 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.000 That was a good story. I saw Jeff speak when 351 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.440 he got back at a big foot convention and he 352 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.240 gave the story that he went over to Russia. They 353 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:46.839 invited him as as a premier scientist over there, and 354 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.200 a couple of other bigfoot researchers from the US and 355 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.119 a woman from Michigan who claims that they were living 356 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:59.359 in her backyard and she gets woven into the Ketchum 357 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.400 story later on, and I'll come back to that. But 358 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.440 they all went over there to this this U conference 359 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.079 and they were under the impressionnumbers is going to be 360 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.640 some sort of scientific interest in it. It turns out 361 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:14.839 there really wasn't. It was more like a media event. 362 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.319 And they ended up going to a cave that was 363 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.119 supposedly housed a yetti he lived there. And as soon 364 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.960 as they walked in the cave, oh look hair, Oh 365 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.359 look a footprint. Oh never mind, it's just one foot, 366 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.279 you know. A couple of times it's a fun yeah, 367 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:36.519 And a nest they found in the corner and this 368 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.400 scientist igor Bertsev. Jeff described him as jumping in the 369 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.839 nest and rolling around it and say, look, it's a 370 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:49.000 it's a yetti nest. And you could see the way 371 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.119 Jeff was talking about it, he was mortified that if 372 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.880 this actually was a piece of evidence, what are you doing? 373 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:02.480 Big He was fury. He was furious at how this 374 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.880 turned out. And he came back and I really don't 375 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.599 think that he had any intention of believing anything that 376 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.799 they said for that after that point he sounded really disgusted. 377 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.880 That same woman that went over there with the continued 378 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.599 American contingent that Jeff ran into while he was there, 379 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.240 was the woman in Michigan who says that she was 380 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:28.319 feeding the bigfoot in her backyard and they particularly liked 381 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:32.880 blueberry bagels, and apparently one of these blueberry bagels may 382 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:35.839 have had saliva on it, and that was part of 383 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:40.720 sample taking put in the Ketchum study. Later on, Ketchum 384 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:45.440 ended up hiring this woman, robin Lynpeffer, to be her spokesperson, 385 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:49.519 and she just really didn't do a good job at it. 386 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.799 She couldn't read the scientific paper, she couldn't talk in 387 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.759 a way that was suitable for public relations. She was 388 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:01.160 extremely biased and what she was talking about the forest 389 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.119 people in her backyard, and so it was just it 390 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:05.079 was weird. 391 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.279 Was she in the pyrole of big Bagel? 392 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:11.079 Yeah, I don't know. But when I first read that story, 393 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.759 I'm thinking, there's people, you know, coming into her backyard, 394 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:16.920 her kids, friends, you know, eating the bagels. 395 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.119 It's something else going on there, brought. 396 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.240 To you by Einstein Brothers. Bagels, the favorite of Bigfoot everywhere. 397 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:28.440 It's just all it's weird. It's all molded together, and 398 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:30.599 you know, you have you have the finding Bigfoot people 399 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.559 like not moneymaker uh saying that he doesn't trust catch 400 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.039 him and this is all a bunch of hooey that's 401 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.039