WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:05.480 It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Costin's radio. 2 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:09.119 Well, you know, every once in a while you hear 3 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:11.960 about a story and you don't pay a lot of 4 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:14.679 attention to at least there's a lot of stuff that 5 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:20.000 goes across my desk to whatever you want to call it. 6 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:23.039 And this is one that has caught my eye in 7 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:25.879 the last few days and seems to be heating up 8 00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:29.519 a little bit. And if you're a commercial property owner 9 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.439 in Boston, or if you're a residential property owner in Boston, 10 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:37.840 Mayor Woo is involved in a bit of a struggle 11 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.799 with the state legislature because she wants to increase the 12 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:47.479 commercial property tax rate here in Boston on a temporary basis, 13 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.960 but wants to increase it over the next few years 14 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:53.840 and for the next three years, as I understand it, 15 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:58.159 And she says, if she's not allowed to do that, 16 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:01.799 she needs permission of the state. To do that, she's 17 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:06.159 going to have to substantially raise the property taxes of 18 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:10.599 residents of Boston. So to try to kind of sort 19 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:15.719 all of this out, I'm delighted to welcome a guest 20 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:19.359 from the Boston Policy Institute. His name is Greg Maynard. 21 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:21.719 Greg Maynard. Welcome to Night's Side. How are you. 22 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:24.920 I'm great, Thank you so much for having me on, Dan, 23 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:26.040 You're welcome. 24 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:28.959 Greg is the executive director of the Boston Policy Institute, 25 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:33.760 which is a relatively new policy institute. You've been around 26 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:35.640 about a year. Tell us how it came to be, 27 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:37.560 the Boston Policy Institute. 28 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:43.560 So we came together because we're trying to kind of 29 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:47.079 put numbers on some of these big questions that people have. 30 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.040 So one of the big things, the reason that we're 31 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.319 involved in this issue is we put out a report 32 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:57.200 back in February that actually quantified how much the loss 33 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.920 of value and offices was going to affect boston'udget. You know, 34 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:04.000 here in Massachusetts, cities and towns are really dependent on 35 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.159 property property values and on property tax to fund their 36 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.719 local budget, and so we knew that since remote work 37 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:13.800 has started and offices had started selling for significantly less 38 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.400 than they did before COVID, it was something that we 39 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:17.960 needed to look at, and so we actually put a 40 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:21.240 number on that and found that Boston faced a one 41 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:25.719 point four billion dollar shortfall in commercial property tax revenue 42 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:27.120 over the next five years. 43 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:32.919 Okay, so let's put some context around that, Okay, before 44 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:42.560 the pandemic two thousand and nineteen, Boston's budget approximately how 45 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:45.199 much money does it take to run the city of Boston. 46 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:49.719 Just give me around for let's figure out how it 47 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:51.919 breaks out between commercial and residential. 48 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:55.680 Yeah, so like so, for instance, this year, Boston's budget 49 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:58.599 is four point six billion dollars, and out of that, 50 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:01.680 seventy five percent of it is funded from property taxes. 51 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:06.080 And then how does the property tax split in terms 52 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.960 of if again, if you you said Boston the budget 53 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:14.719 is five point six is that the number four point 54 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:19.120 six billion dollars? And that, by the way, compares when 55 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:22.800 you think about the state budget is about fifty eight 56 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:26.560 billion dollars. So Boston is a little less than ten 57 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:32.439 percent of the state budget. But Boston also, you know, 58 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:38.319 during the day it's it's it's population explodes. I think 59 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.240 it probably doubles. But let's just deal We'll deal with 60 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.639 the four point six billion. Okay, So seventy five percent 61 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:48.159 of that has to come from some form of real 62 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:52.319 estate taxes, and seventy five percent of that I'm just 63 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:54.319 trying to do something in my head here is going 64 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:57.800 to be about three point one billion. If I'm if 65 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:02.000 I'm doing the math correctly, How does that seventy five 66 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:08.599 percent breakdown currently between so how did it commercial and residential? 67 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.360 So right now it's but like percentages percentages, right, so. 68 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.120 It's about sixty forty between commercial properties pay sixty percent 69 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.519 of the taxes and residents pay forty percent. 70 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:23.959 Okay, So now is that currently is that what it 71 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:24.920 traditionally had been? 72 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:29.000 That is what it is right now, but it is 73 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:32.560 likely to start to change because of the falls and 74 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:33.560 office values. 75 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.040 Okay, So so prior budgets have not really reflected the 76 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:40.920 decrease in office values. 77 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.839 Yeah, because it's you know, property property values are something 78 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.160 that take a really long long time to like go 79 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:52.000 up and go go down. Right, We have propped you, and. 80 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:54.680 I think they they re evaluate them on like a 81 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.560 three year cycle or something like that. Yeah, it's longer, okay. 82 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:00.800 Yeah, and and people are able to challenge them. But 83 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.240 a lot of it is based, especially for commercial properties, 84 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:07.240 it's based on occupancy rates and sales price and different 85 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.759 kinds of things, and all of that takes a long 86 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:13.600 time to kind of like catch up to. Like, so 87 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:15.560 you know, a building might not be worth that much 88 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:17.519 money right now, but if it hasn't sold yet, then 89 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:19.759 we don't really know how much money it's worth, and 90 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:21.839 it's going to keep on paying its previous taxes. 91 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.680 Okay, So essentially, what I'm hearing you say is that 92 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:31.920 reality is about to strike here in Boston. So, yes, 93 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:38.120 what do you think? What do you think if nothing 94 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:44.000 is done? What will the commercial tax rate instead of 95 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:49.519 being sixty percent if the value of commercial property has decreased. 96 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.199 How big a decreased will that be? In terms of 97 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:58.000 what percentage of the of the budget will will commercial 98 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:02.639 property fund? If it doesn't fund sixty percent of you know, 99 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:05.399 the three point one billion, how low could. 100 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:10.199 That it's gonna So the big, the big problem Boston 101 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.680 has is that Boston taxes commercial real estate at one 102 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.319 hundred and seventy five percent the rate of residential real estate. 103 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:19.600 And so that's that's a lot to understate law. But 104 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:23.199 what that means is that residential property in Boston makes 105 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:25.720 up about two thirds of the value of all of 106 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:28.439 the property in Boston, but they only pay forty percent 107 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:30.879 of the taxes. Commercial property makes up only about a 108 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:32.439 third of the value, but they pay sixty percent of 109 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.519 the taxes. And so from all the. 110 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.800 Crimes, commercial properties are carrying a heavier lift a heavier 111 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:43.800 low than residential, which which is fine, you know, as 112 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:49.120 long as it's it's not overly onerous, right, Yeah. 113 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:51.639 And the problem that Boston faces here is, you know, 114 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.639 property taxes are an extremely durable like way to raise money, 115 00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:00.199 like they almost never never change. But because of this 116 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:03.279 really unique thing of work from home and the collapse 117 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:05.920 and office values that it has brought on, it means 118 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:09.959 that Boston's budget is kind of uniquely vulnerable to this 119 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:11.079 kind of problem. 120 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.199 Yeah, and the other and you've explained it very well, Greg, 121 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.240 and I appreciate the clarity of your explanation. The other 122 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.800 thing which is under underlying cause over which no one 123 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:30.199 has any control. We have a lot of schools, universities, churches, hospitals, museums, 124 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:38.279 baseball parks, all of which probably don't pay they get 125 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.480 they get a break. A lot of the schools simply 126 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:45.639 make a donation or a contribution in lieu of taxes, 127 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:51.920 and those contributions never are even close to what they 128 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:55.160 would pay if they were taxed at the regular tax rate. 129 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:57.879 Am I correct on that? Yeah? 130 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.800 Now, the pilots don't add up to one hundred percent 131 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:02.879 of the sluice value. 132 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:06.160 Yeah, and the fact that the matter is that Boston 133 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:12.279 is a is a relatively small city geographically have great neighborhoods. 134 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:17.839 But now the mayor wants to, if I'm wrong here, 135 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:23.199 tell me take this burden, this tax burden, and even 136 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:28.240 increase it on commercial properties at a time when the 137 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.639 value of those commercial properties is depressed. 138 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:33.960 Yeah, that's that's right. 139 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:39.559 And of course the commercial properties are very concerned about this. 140 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:46.960 The mayor is saying, Hey, if I don't increase how 141 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:50.399 much the commercial properties have to pay, they're already paying 142 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:54.679 you know, quote unquote more than their fair share. I 143 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.639 hate that term because it's such an amorphous term, the 144 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.519 mayor says, and she may have to send out tax 145 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:09.000 bills to residential homeowners which will show a dramatic increase 146 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:10.879 in their real estate taxes. 147 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.399 Yeah, so that's true. But I think the thing that's 148 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:17.919 going unsaid here, and what the mayor's talking about with 149 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.840 these tax increases, is that residents in Boston are going 150 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:25.159 to see these their taxes go up substantially, whether or 151 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.480 not the mayor's bill that's before the State House right 152 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:31.960 now passes. Right. So, when she originally proposed it was 153 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.519 for five years. She's now negotiated it down to three. 154 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:37.279 No matter how long it is. At the end of it, 155 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.240 residential taxes are going to be at the same like 156 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.200 price per thousand that they were going to be. And 157 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:49.039 so what she's proposing is like a very very short 158 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:51.480 term solution to what looks like it's going to be 159 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:53.679 a very long term problem here in Boston. 160 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:59.440 So, okay, when we get back, I want to ask 161 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:03.639 you if if you want to venture into these choppy waters, 162 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:05.879 you can. But it seems to me that the timing 163 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.840 of all of this could not be worse for the 164 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:14.759 mayor because she's up for reelection next year, and I 165 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:18.720 wonder if this is just a dilemma that she finds 166 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:23.039 herself in over which she has really no control, or 167 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:27.759 if she's trying to make sure that the damage that 168 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:33.120 would be done is minimal to her politically. And we'll 169 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.639 get into some of that with you when we come back. 170 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.200 If you want to ask a question of someone who 171 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:42.480 knows probably more about this than I do, Greg Maynard. 172 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.639 He is the executive director of the Boston Policy Institute. 173 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:51.919 I really appreciate the clarity of your explanations, and I'm 174 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:56.279 hoping that some of our Boston residents or others. Commercial 175 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:00.879 folks may join the conversation six seven ten thirty six 176 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.679 one seven nine three one ten thirty. My name is 177 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.519 Dan Ray. This is Nightside. We try to pick different topics. 178 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:09.559 This is one that does have an impact on the 179 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.279 city in which all of us, if we don't physically 180 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:17.080 live in Boston, we are obviously affected by what happens 181 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.600 in Boston because it is the capital city not only 182 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:23.320 of Massachusetts, but also it's the hub well it's the 183 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:25.559 capital city of New England, and we like to think 184 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:27.559 of it as the hub of the world. Back on 185 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:31.600 Nightside with my guest, Greg Maynard of the Boston Polosy Institute, 186 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:33.279 right after a couple of messages. 187 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.840 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 188 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:42.360 Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio. 189 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.039 So many mayors in Boston over the years have fell 190 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:53.080 have faced these dilemmas, how do you raise taxes fairly? 191 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:57.559 And I'm hoping that that is what Mayor Wu is 192 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:01.440 planning on doing or trying trying to do right now. 193 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:07.200 But again, Greg, without getting you into some controversy here, 194 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:09.799 this is a tough time for Mayor Wu. I mean, 195 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:17.200 she is going to face reelection next year. How much 196 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.320 of a factor do you think that is in her 197 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.279 thoughts or do you think she would just put that 198 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:23.399 aside and just deal with what's going on. 199 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:29.519 So the problem that the Mary is facing is pretty unique, 200 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.159 and so like, I don't I don't envy, I don't 201 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:36.360 envy the position that she's that she's in the city 202 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:39.799 has not faced all of these problems happening at the 203 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.720 same time, with falling commercial values and rising home values 204 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:46.799 and the prospect that commercial values are just going to 205 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:50.919 keep on following. So you know, it's something that is 206 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.240 going to require like a lot of creative thinking and 207 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:57.120 not something where we can kind of rummage around in 208 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.480 the past and find solutions that have worked for you know, 209 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:04.080 Mayor Menino or Mayor White or mayor Collins. 210 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:11.320 Yeah, this is a dilemma because not only do you 211 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.919 have these sort of economic forces at work, but as 212 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:17.759 I understand it, today is the day that a lot 213 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:23.639 of the COVID relief money ended. As a matter of fact, 214 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.559 teachers in Boston and Lynn today were out on the 215 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.200 picket line. I believe the teachers union needs a new 216 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.440 contract in Boston, and they were They're concerned in Lynn 217 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.879 about an expansion of a charter school program. And one 218 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.960 of the reasons that there was a lot of money 219 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:45.120 that came slashing up to Massachusetts and to other states 220 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:47.879 in the wake of COVID, but that money now is 221 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:52.320 dried up. So's it's not as if the federal government, 222 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.720 which is thirty five to thirty six trillion dollars in debt, 223 00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:00.679 can start writing checks to every major city. This is really, 224 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:03.799 I hate to put it like this, Greg, but a 225 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:06.440 perfect storm for the city of Boston and probably some 226 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:08.120 other cities around the country as well. 227 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:10.639 Yeah, it really is. 228 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:12.440 It really is a perfect storm. 229 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:12.960 It's really. 230 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:17.559 The thing that is is uniquely bad for Boston is 231 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.159 because it's so property tax dependent. It's really badly impacted 232 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.879 by this, and programs that work in other cities to 233 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:28.960 promote growth and to promote things that will generate more 234 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.799 revenue for the city just won't work here the same way. 235 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.799 Like in New York City, for instance, the city collects 236 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.600 its own sales tax, so the city can afford to 237 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.519 give out tax breaks to building build new apartments because 238 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.279 everyone who lives in those apartments, they pay city income tax, 239 00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:47.159 they pay city sales tax, and so they contribute to 240 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:49.879 the city's budget, even if they're building is not paying 241 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.159 full boat property tax. But in Boston, the city doesn't 242 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.759 have access to any of that revenue, and so the 243 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.279 only way for the city to grow its budget is 244 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.639 to have property be worth more right either through regular 245 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:04.320 valuation rises or by building new buildings. 246 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:08.080 Yeah. I think that the last thing that any Boston mayor, 247 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.679 particularly one who is about to embark on a re 248 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:15.559 election year, would want to do would be tried to 249 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:20.279 get a city income tax employment tax through and I 250 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:23.399 assume that Mayor will would have to get permission from 251 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.919 that and Beacon Hill as well. Am I Am I 252 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:27.120 right or wrong on that? Yeah? 253 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.600 Exactly in Massachusetts doesn't have you know, we don't have 254 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:35.279 a history of letting towns and cities vote to their 255 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.840 own taxes, right like we have the Proposition two and 256 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:39.240 a half rules for a reason. 257 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:45.399 Yeah. So the mayor apparently has some support in the 258 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:48.840 state House of Representatives, or at least has lent her 259 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:54.759 a sympathetic year, but she's not at this point, I think, 260 00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:01.399 convinced the state Senate to provide that that flexibility. And 261 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.159 apparently she had a meeting last week with the Senate 262 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:09.159 President Karen Spilka, And I'm not sure how well it went, 263 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:12.039 but certainly it didn't look like they had reached some 264 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:12.799 grand deal. 265 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.360 Yeah, it's not clear how it's how it's going to work. 266 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.879 And I think you know the other thing here, right, 267 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:25.039 is the mayor's compromise with the House reduced the program 268 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.039 from being five years long to three years long. It 269 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:30.399 reduced the amount of taxes they're going to be able 270 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:33.720 to raise in the percentages, and it did some carve 271 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.759 outs for some small small businesses. So it's also like 272 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.919 the temporary fix that she's proposing was made much more 273 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.200 temporary by the compromise she struck with the state House. 274 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:53.919 Is there enough money in the universities, the hospitals, the churches, 275 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:59.559 the museums that the mayor could aggressively go to all 276 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.799 of those institutions and saying, hey, I know that you're 277 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:06.000 paying an amount in lieu of taxes, but the amount 278 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.759 that you're paying is not nearly enough and we all 279 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:15.039 need to step it up. Is that possible or is 280 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.319 that in your opinion and effort that other mayors have 281 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:20.839 made without have tried to make without success. 282 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:24.799 Yeah, other you're like you said it right, like other 283 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.160 other mayors haven't haven't had a lot of success with that. 284 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.519 And the administration has made really clear over the spring 285 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.279 when they were debating about the budget with the Chamber 286 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.200 of Commerce and with the Boston Municipal Research Bureau, the 287 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.799 administration made it really clear that they intended to raise taxes, 288 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.920 property taxes to the to the levee, so as much 289 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.880 as they're allowed to under the under the law, every 290 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:49.400 single every single year. Right like other cities and towns 291 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.640 across Massachusetts don't always raise their taxes to the levee. 292 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.960 In Boston, they they do. And so, you know, kind 293 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.119 of regardless of what happens with Pilot these taxes, the 294 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.960 administration has said, these taxes are going to go up. 295 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.440 What ware does this story end? In your opinion, Gregular 296 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:10.440 or is it just too early to speculate. 297 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.839 I mean, I think that the story of this tax 298 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.880 proposal is up to you know, our state, our state legislators. 299 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.319 I think in terms of the you know, what's going 300 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:24.079 on with commercial real estate, I think it's still it's 301 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.039 probably still too early to tell. I think the big 302 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:30.200 thing that we haven't seen really be discussed yet, which 303 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.319 I've been disappointed by is that the city needs to 304 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:34.920 find a new source of growth. 305 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:35.119 Right. 306 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.920 We've built an awful lot of office towers over the 307 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:40.680 last twenty years, we built the whole Seaport district, and 308 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.279 our city has a housing crisis, right, Boston needs a 309 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.119 lot more homes than we have right right now. So 310 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.640 it seems like building a lot of houses could fill 311 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:52.839 fill some of that some of that gap. But we 312 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.440 haven't seen any really big, ambitious plans to build the 313 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.599 number of homes that you need to plug that kind 314 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:01.559 of a gap in the budget. 315 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.279 Well, they built a lot of condos down in the Seaport, 316 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:07.559 and they also built a lot of great restaurants. So 317 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:09.759 I don't know if the city benefits from that or not. 318 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:14.720 I guess not, but they certainly should benefit from the 319 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:18.119 development of condominiums, high end condominiums down down in the 320 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.319 Seaport district then and in other parts of the city. Look, 321 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:24.599 I really appreciate it, Greg, This you you simplified in 322 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:29.519 a good way complicated issue. Greg Mayor, the executive director 323 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.160 of the Boston Policy Institute. I'd like to keep in 324 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:34.480 touch with you and have you back periodically if that's 325 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:36.119 okay with you. 326 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.160 Oh, I would love to come on. Dan, thank you 327 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.000 so much for having me on. And I hope people 328 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:42.839 learn learned a little bit about this, this big crisis. 329 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:44.400 It's going to be going to be with us for 330 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:45.279 the next several years. 331 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:47.440 Ago. So yeah, and this is the first time we 332 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:50.279 touched it, and you did explain it, I thought very well. 333 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:53.759 Appreciate the time tonight, Greg, and we'll talk again when 334 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.519 we get back after the news. At the bottom of 335 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.839 the hour, I'd like to open it up and get 336 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:04.519 your impressions as to what the city of Boston can do. Now. Look, 337 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.000 if you're a resident of Boston, this is going to 338 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:11.160 affect you personally. It's going to affect your residential real 339 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:15.920 estate taxes. If you rent in Boston, the owner of 340 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:19.440 the building, whether it's a corporation or an individual, will 341 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.039 certainly pass through the increases that they're asked to pay. 342 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:28.880 If you are in commercial development. If it seems to 343 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:33.039 me that there's no good solution here, uh, And I 344 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:36.039 don't know that any mayor of Boston is going to 345 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.240 cut any program. I do know that in the schools 346 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:43.279 we have an ever decreasing school population and an ever 347 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:47.079 increasing school budget. I don't know how you reconcile those 348 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:51.240 so love to get your ideas and your thoughts. Six one, seven, two, five, 349 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:54.519 four ten thirty, triple eight nine two nine ten thirty 350 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:56.680 or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I 351 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:58.599 will say this, the one thing we have a lot 352 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:03.559 of in Boston bicycle lanes. Bicycle lanes have not generated 353 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.680 a lot of revenue, but we have a lot of 354 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.480 bicycle lanes. And look, the mayor's face is going to 355 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:12.839 be facing a tough re election campaign, and the weaker 356 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:17.680 that she might seem, the more likely that some challengers 357 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.799 will decide to take a shot. Join the conversation. You 358 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:23.440 can take a shot. Give us a call here on 359 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:24.880 Nightside back right after this. 360 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.839 It's Night Side with Dany, Boston's news radio. 361 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:33.720 Now, all of us pay a lot of taxes. I 362 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:36.359 think all of us realize that you pay federal taxes, 363 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:39.200 if you're working, you pay Social Security taxes, you pay 364 00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:42.359 state taxes. In some cities. In New York City there's 365 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:44.440 a city tax. So if you live in New York City, 366 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:47.279 you pay a city tax, and it can run into 367 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.359 a lot of money. In Boston, it's a relatively small 368 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:57.279 geographic area. It is somewhat limited Boston cannot expand, Okay, 369 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.960 but it can. He needs to take more and more 370 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:05.759 costs to incur more and more costs, and no one 371 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:09.720 looks at cuts because that's going to cause political problems. 372 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.200 But I think Mayor Wolf's gonna have some political problems 373 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:17.680 with the with their election year in terms of the taxes. 374 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.359 Let's go too. Going to start it off with Brian 375 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:23.759 in Hyde Park. Brian, great, do we have a first 376 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:25.880 caller tonight from hype from Boston? 377 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.759 Go ahead, Brian, Hey, Dan Hawaii A long time? 378 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.880 Oh yeah, Well I gotta do is call any night. 379 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.799 I'm always here for you. 380 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:37.720 Go ahead, I pick and choose, but nice to hear you. 381 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:41.480 But well, I think in my conversations before you know 382 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.440 my background and my thoughts on this. And I called 383 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:46.160 in when the Sulim was on a few weeks back. 384 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.079 No, don't don't hesit, Brian, I have good memory, but 385 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:54.119 maybe some of our listeners if you want to preface 386 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:56.880 your remarks with a perspective, go right ahead. 387 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.880 Well it's uh, it's just been a long time coming. 388 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:08.440 I think Mayowel has absolutely mismanaged the city financially. Uh, 389 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.119 during COVID, coming out of COVID. They knew the uh, 390 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:15.880 the occupation rate in the in the in the city 391 00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:20.000 was absolutely down. And you know, now everybody's coming back 392 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.480 to work. But in the meantime, that's tax money revenue 393 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:27.079 lost to all the local businesses and whatnot in the 394 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.559 property taxes. And I think it goes back to what 395 00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:34.519 many walls to explained for this. Also because he just 396 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.240 brother stamps every project in the city. There isn't a 397 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:40.680 green space left in the city and it's a shame. 398 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.440 But I think her management of the city, between the homelessness, 399 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:50.680 the drug problem, math and casts and uh, the infrastructure, 400 00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:52.240 that there isn't a city there. 401 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.680