Speaker 1: I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
Speaker 1: and I have three kids.
Speaker 2: I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
Speaker 2: out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1: This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
Speaker 1: and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2: When coming out feels like the end of the world,
Speaker 2: but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1: This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles, Alane.
Speaker 3: When I commended Forever in her experience.
Speaker 1: When I recommended it to our friend, the filmmaker, I
Speaker 1: won't say any names. I was thinking it would be
Speaker 1: like a fun like foreplay for them. What let's go?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? Okay, give the details on what happened
Speaker 3: to New York City.
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, as many of you know, I've been in
Speaker 1: New York for my birthday. I'm home now. But while
Speaker 1: I was there, we went to and when I say we,
Speaker 1: I mean me and my twenty two year old Okay,
Speaker 1: she's very mature, very feminist, cidified like this isn't like
Speaker 1: a girl who gets pushed around. Okay, So I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say that to start, and obviously neither am I.
Speaker 1: So we go to get a massage, and we specifically
Speaker 1: go in an area that's known for like cheap but
Speaker 1: good massages. Okay, okay, okay, And it's not far from
Speaker 1: these village. So we walked from my hotel to the
Speaker 1: place that I actually picked a different place, and Tatum said, yuck,
Speaker 1: that place is gross. We're not going there, like pick
Speaker 1: or I'll tell you, I'll pick somewhere. So she picked
Speaker 1: this place, so let's also say she picked it. And
Speaker 1: we get there and it's great, they check you in whatever,
Speaker 1: but all of a sudden and there's like a screen,
Speaker 1: there's like a curtain between my bed and Tatum's bed.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: The massage is like you know, normally in a massage
Speaker 1: you do like half on your stomach, half on your back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this massage was seventy to eighty percent. I can't say it.
Speaker 1: I'm on my stomach seventy to eighty percent thigh ass okay.
Speaker 1: And so I always wear underwear and massages, but like
Speaker 1: my underwear were like pulled slightly down and like they
Speaker 1: had originally had a blanket over all of me. That
Speaker 1: then I realized by the end, there's like no blanket,
Speaker 1: but I don't know when you're getting a massage. I
Speaker 1: don't even know that that fully matters that much, because
Speaker 1: why do you care if you see my arm? Just
Speaker 1: my arm, like you've already seen my ass now at
Speaker 1: this point, and I haven't flipped over yet. But okay,
Speaker 1: so we're getting the massage, and I don't see what's
Speaker 1: happening in her booth. I only know what's happening in
Speaker 1: my booth, and what's happening in my booth is nothing
Speaker 1: that goes too far, but it goes far enough that
Speaker 1: I'm like, what I'm planning in my mind what I'm
Speaker 1: going to say if it goes to the next step,
Speaker 1: which what I was going to say if it went
Speaker 1: to the next step was I'm just not interested, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not interested. And meanwhile, I don't even know who's
Speaker 1: doing it, because you know, when they walk in, you're
Speaker 1: changed on your stomach.
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when he came in, I didn't even know
Speaker 1: who it was. I had no clue what's happening.
Speaker 3: Did he say anything like my name is Randy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe sure, but like I'm laying down not even
Speaker 1: thinking about it.
Speaker 3: He's not female.
Speaker 1: I knew male, and I knew that. He was like,
Speaker 1: is the pressure good? He started easy enough, like you're on,
Speaker 1: he's in my shoulders, He's doing the whole thing. But
Speaker 1: this and sash progresses and it's like he's getting highly
Speaker 1: focused on like where your thigh needs your ass okay,
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, look, it does kind of feel good.
Speaker 1: And I had done a lot of squats. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm not like hating it, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know what to say, like I'm not hating it,
Speaker 1: and it's not going too far, but it's like in
Speaker 1: my head, I'm thinking, this is how shit happens.
Speaker 3: Is he testing the water.
Speaker 1: He's testing the waters, okay, And I'm not putting up
Speaker 1: a fight at this point, Like I'm like, it does
Speaker 1: feel good. I did a bunch of lunches and squats,
Speaker 1: and I'm like this is I probably need it there, right,
Speaker 1: But then he takes this is where it gets like
Speaker 1: this is my experience if anyone's ever been like assaulted,
Speaker 1: clearly this isn't funny. But he didn't sexually assault me,
Speaker 1: but he just did things that did like I see
Speaker 1: how massages can turn into something because it felt fucking
Speaker 1: good and if I had been in a different situation,
Speaker 1: I would have been into it for sure. Okay, So
Speaker 1: he's I might even even like I see how it happens. Okay.
Speaker 1: So he's there, and then he has me on my stomach.
Speaker 1: He puts my leg like in a you know, like
Speaker 1: a figure four or like you like you you like
Speaker 1: put your It's almost like you're gonna stretch. But he
Speaker 1: folds one leg over the other. I don't know whether
Speaker 1: you call it. Tatum called it butterfly. I call it
Speaker 1: figure four because it was just like one leg out, okay.
Speaker 1: And then he's working on that one. But while he's
Speaker 1: working on that one, and again the whole massage, that
Speaker 1: part of the massage was like the lion's.
Speaker 3: Share of the stomach stone.
Speaker 1: I'm on my stomach, okay, and now my legs are
Speaker 1: a little bit more spread because he's like doing butterfly.
Speaker 1: And while he's massaging, like obviously like his knuckle like
Speaker 1: it's like you could feel it kind of touching you there, Okay,
Speaker 1: but not inside because I have underwear. But when you're
Speaker 1: pulled in that position, it's like holy shit. So in
Speaker 1: my mind, I'm laying there, I'm like a it feels good,
Speaker 1: but also like be prepared to like say not interested.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, you got the wrong idea.
Speaker 1: You got the wrong idea. So the massage finishes. It
Speaker 1: was a great massage, like no two places.
Speaker 3: Focus, well that's happening, or like relax.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it into my head. I'm really good
Speaker 1: at like I was. I mean in my mind. When
Speaker 1: I turned over and saw who it was, I was
Speaker 1: like the fantasy was crushed like that.
Speaker 3: He looks like.
Speaker 1: We're done here. But then like I finished it out,
Speaker 1: no worries, and then like right after it's over, okay,
Speaker 1: we pull I pulled the curtain back, and she looks
Speaker 1: at me and she's like like she like literally was
Speaker 1: like oh my god. And I'm like wait what same,
Speaker 1: and she's like let's get out of here, like we
Speaker 1: have so much to talk about. So we both and
Speaker 1: her guy was like younger buff. My guy was not that.
Speaker 1: So we get outside and she literally is like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I've got to smoke a joint and like
Speaker 1: process what just went down in there? She's like holy shit,
Speaker 1: and everything she described, which kind of made me feel better,
Speaker 1: is exactly what happened to me.
Speaker 3: So it was just their protocols.
Speaker 1: Well then I'm like, it's just their vertical to do
Speaker 1: seventy to eighty percent at the ass thigh line, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, and with the half kind of getting really
Speaker 1: close to the goods.
Speaker 3: Oh like, how does this work? Do they do this? Under?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: And their busy as fuck?
Speaker 3: If the woman starts to get a little into it,
Speaker 3: then I.
Speaker 1: Wasn't raising my ass, I wasn't doing anything that was signaled.
Speaker 1: I wasn't frozen in fear. I was relaxed as fuck
Speaker 1: and like not putting.
Speaker 3: Up a fight. I don't know what I would have done.
Speaker 1: But then I thought they were mobbed, and so I
Speaker 1: started thinking, damn, like there's a market for this, like
Speaker 1: just turn me on enough, but don't cross the line.
Speaker 1: There's a total market for this impact. It's like we
Speaker 1: all have this understanding that like I'm not going to
Speaker 1: tell you, you're not going to tell me, and we're
Speaker 1: going to go to this place and like let this
Speaker 1: shit happen and just kind of look the other way
Speaker 1: and walk out, because nothing really did happen. It was
Speaker 1: a gray area.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting because also you've been to that spa
Speaker 2: up in like Gwinett, right, the Korean spau. I mean,
Speaker 2: isn't that kind of along the lines of like, what's
Speaker 2: happening there?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean a jju though they're not nobody would
Speaker 1: have butterflied me and had their knuckle rubbing against my
Speaker 1: south side.
Speaker 3: It never happen. I can't with this conversation. While to me.
Speaker 1: As I was leaving, I literally it occurred to me
Speaker 1: that like there is this middle market where you don't
Speaker 1: cross the line, but like you do this like very
Speaker 1: kind of relaxing massage that's like nothing happened. I wouldn't,
Speaker 1: there's nothing, there'd be nothing to turn into the authorities
Speaker 1: about this place.
Speaker 2: I know. But what I'm saying is I think they
Speaker 2: do that and they wait for the signal from the
Speaker 2: the person the client to start getting into it and
Speaker 2: then okay.
Speaker 1: But what is what if they do okay? But then
Speaker 1: I'm going to push it even a step further, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in that. But let's say that you
Speaker 1: did take it a step further and like you're consenting.
Speaker 1: Why does it matter? Why do I give a shit
Speaker 1: if this guy gets you off? Do I care?
Speaker 2: I mean, as long as it's consensual, sure, that's what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, go for it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Uh god, that is not wrong to think that.
Speaker 3: Have you read the reviews for this place?
Speaker 1: Yeah, great reviews, sellar reviews because the women are like me,
Speaker 1: They're like this felt kind of good. Yeah. And it's
Speaker 1: also like if you're a workouter, that is where I'm
Speaker 1: like tight, where I have like your legs, get a
Speaker 1: ship ton of workout. Yeah, well I'm favors Ai. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really. I mean the whole night we were
Speaker 1: dying laughing.
Speaker 3: No, you text yesterday in the group chair with Sam.
Speaker 1: Was She's like, I'll pass. Thanks. Iought on board, you know,
Speaker 1: yeah I thought for sure too, but I guess just me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, new experiences.
Speaker 1: It's true. I actually told Nikki right away and she's like,
Speaker 1: do not share that on the pod, like that highly suspect.
Speaker 3: Willing participant.
Speaker 1: But I didn't know I was going to be a participant.
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know for sure what happened, Like
Speaker 1: it took like getting outside of it, which is another
Speaker 1: thing Tate said. She's like, is it though, just like
Speaker 1: the we don't even know. We were so accustomed to
Speaker 1: being agreeable that it's like you don't even know you're
Speaker 1: getting assaulted. If you're getting assaulted, sometimes we weren't. We
Speaker 1: were not, But I'm saying like she's like, is it
Speaker 1: like you're just trained as a woman to just kind
Speaker 1: of go with it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, especially like at a younger age, like don't
Speaker 3: rock the boat kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm not that person. I would have been
Speaker 1: like whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2: Well, honestly, it reminds me I my first massage. I
Speaker 2: was in Costa Rica at like a spa.
Speaker 1: There and shit goes down there, I.
Speaker 3: Will and that was just it.
Speaker 2: It was like I felt like he was creeping up
Speaker 2: my inner thigh a little bit too much. And I'd
Speaker 2: never had a massage. I'm twenty two years old. I
Speaker 2: don't know what the rules are, but I would tact
Speaker 2: asking my friends like what was yours like? Because that
Speaker 2: felt a little like a little close.
Speaker 1: They say, yeah, they.
Speaker 2: Didn't have the same experience as I did. They were like, no,
Speaker 2: it was like a one on notice anything. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it was like, I guess my guy was just going
Speaker 2: a little bit higher up to thigh than everyone else.
Speaker 2: But I did leave there kind of being like what
Speaker 2: was I even supposed to say or do? In that moment,
Speaker 2: like I don't know what's normal. I got a facial
Speaker 2: there and I happened to like crack my eye open
Speaker 2: as they were like getting the scrub. It was that
Speaker 2: freaking Saint Ives apricruts grow no way, box.
Speaker 1: No way, no way. That was my god, get out
Speaker 1: of here.
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, real fancy.
Speaker 1: It's twenty two. Yeah, it's very fancy. Well, if you
Speaker 1: saw this place, you'd be like, holy shit.
Speaker 2: Finds me a bit of the foot massage places in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: Same thing, yep, those places all the time. I got
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 3: It's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 1: Same so I almost prefer that to a massage.
Speaker 3: Same yeah, because.
Speaker 1: It's just like I can relax. Yah, it's easier. So yeah,
Speaker 1: well anyway, no complaints, no shade, and I could have
Speaker 1: handled it if it took a turn, no.
Speaker 3: Problem, handled it or participated.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I see how people end up getting
Speaker 1: happy endings because they get you, they get you kind
Speaker 1: of turned on, and then they're like until you flip over,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh fuck, I made a deal
Speaker 1: with the devil until it's.
Speaker 3: The gado hovering over you. Then it's all over. That's
Speaker 3: just what I picture.
Speaker 1: Oh god, all right, well let's take it to a
Speaker 1: place of gay.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, we had an email from a listener asking basically,
Speaker 2: she's in the process of coming out, getting divorced, all
Speaker 2: this stuff, and she wants to know how to talk
Speaker 2: to her little kids about it. And you and I
Speaker 2: started talking about like how we really had different experiences
Speaker 2: with like how we told our kids yep, and mine
Speaker 2: were three and five years old. And so the approach
Speaker 2: I took, which was not given to me by any professional,
Speaker 2: It's just what I kind of came up with, was
Speaker 2: to not tell them about my sexuality, just to say,
Speaker 2: like in the most basic of terms, that we were
Speaker 2: not going to live together anymore. They were we were
Speaker 2: going to have two separate houses, you know, but they
Speaker 2: would still have us as like the constant in each
Speaker 2: house or still love, were still a family, We're still
Speaker 2: going to do things together. Didn't use the word divorce
Speaker 2: or separation, like none of it. And I didn't do
Speaker 2: that because of their because they're so young. I'm like,
Speaker 2: they don't even know the word divorced. And it's not
Speaker 2: like they have kids in their class that have parents
Speaker 2: that are divorced, and so I don't know, it just
Speaker 2: felt like an unnecessary word, and it felt that word
Speaker 2: carries like negative connotation totally. So I just didn't want
Speaker 2: them to think of that anymore. Just we're not going
Speaker 2: to be married anymore.
Speaker 3: It was how about it?
Speaker 2: And then after all that happened, then I had the
Speaker 2: sexuality conversation very slowly and just said, you know, if
Speaker 2: I ever get married again, it's going to be to
Speaker 2: a woman. I didn't use any labels, but since that time,
Speaker 2: now they know. Now they're about to turn twelve and fourteen,
Speaker 2: so they know what gay and lesbian mean, all that stuff,
Speaker 2: all the terminology. They totally get it, like it's not
Speaker 2: even a thing to them, and they're fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're more that your kids are like thriving.
Speaker 2: Yeah they are, They're threat they're great. Like I asked Kaylen,
Speaker 2: I asked both of them the other day. I was like,
Speaker 2: what has been the worst part about me and dad
Speaker 2: being divorced? Like what is the hardest thing for you?
Speaker 2: And they were like going back and forth, they.
Speaker 1: Both had that's what mine say.
Speaker 2: They were like, I hate having to, you know, pack
Speaker 2: up each week or like something gets.
Speaker 3: Left behind exactly what said. But they were like other
Speaker 3: than that, it's fine, you know, do you think.
Speaker 1: In some ways? I know, selfishly, you and I are like,
Speaker 1: we don't want to do that, but like week one
Speaker 1: week off maybe is better for them. I know people
Speaker 1: say it is better for the kids.
Speaker 3: I've thought about that.
Speaker 2: I know, and I really don't know, because like, like
Speaker 2: my daughter has a friend who lives near us, and
Speaker 2: she's week on, week off, so that means one week
Speaker 2: she's on the bus here, the next week she's not.
Speaker 2: But I think it's kind of like we have a
Speaker 2: blend of like half and half, like three days a
Speaker 2: week they're riding the bus from my house and two
Speaker 2: days a week from his house. So I don't know,
Speaker 2: and it's I and I am being selfish because it
Speaker 2: is me. I'm like, I don't need to far away
Speaker 2: or that long without seeing them. I don't think the
Speaker 2: same their dad wants that either, though, Like I think
Speaker 2: it provides a good balance between the time sped, so.
Speaker 1: I would agree. So when we told ours my big
Speaker 1: ones were in middle school, Read was pretty little, I think,
Speaker 1: like kindergarten age. I just remember him bouncing around like
Speaker 1: a toddler. He felt little when we told him. I
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly how old he was, but he the
Speaker 1: therapist told us she gave us a script and she
Speaker 1: had us go ahead and say the gay part as
Speaker 1: part of that bigger conversation, only because my big kids
Speaker 1: did understand divorce. And so she's like, when you don't
Speaker 1: give them a reason that it's happening, they feel that
Speaker 1: emptiness with something else. So she's like, instead of saying,
Speaker 1: you know, this thing happened and now we're getting divorced,
Speaker 1: they if you don't have a thing, then it kind
Speaker 1: of becomes was it us? Was it something we did?
Speaker 1: Was it? Did someone have an affair? Like there's all
Speaker 1: these stories kids create, So we would ahead and just
Speaker 1: said it's I'm gay. Chris was very supportive in that conversation.
Speaker 1: We're still going to be a family. We're going to
Speaker 1: be a different, you know, modern family. The only difference
Speaker 1: for you guys is we're going to live in two
Speaker 1: separate houses. Everything else will be the same. We're not
Speaker 1: even thinking about new partners at this time. And that
Speaker 1: was fine too. In the end, like it was almost
Speaker 1: like they they just sort of accepted it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I don't I'm sure the time will tell. Like
Speaker 1: I guess don't you feel like even like when you
Speaker 1: look at your adult friends, it's like even the people
Speaker 1: with the most healthy childhoods have like these wounds that
Speaker 1: are like even no fold of their mom and dad.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like my big kids now love to tease me, like
Speaker 1: they'll bring stuff up that I'm like, really when they're
Speaker 1: teasing me, but it's like, clearly that's something you think
Speaker 1: about me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like we can do the best that
Speaker 2: we can, but no matter what, they're gonna walk away
Speaker 2: with some something.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And like there's things that I've brought up to the kids,
Speaker 2: like with Reckon, like I've forced him to get on
Speaker 2: this intense water slide.
Speaker 1: I remember that that must have really haunted you because
Speaker 1: I've bothered me so much since he yeah.
Speaker 3: Screamed that he did not want to do it, and
Speaker 3: I put him on it. Anyway, I'm not.
Speaker 2: Knowing how intense it was. But he doesn't remember this.
Speaker 2: He has no memory of it. So I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: the one that's like carrying this.
Speaker 3: He's not.
Speaker 2: But I also don't know if like maybe one day
Speaker 2: down the road, he does think about that, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know if he'll think about that, but I wonder
Speaker 1: if it's it has informed other de s he's made. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and I feel like maybe made him more safe, made
Speaker 1: him less likely to, you know, do.
Speaker 3: The definitely risk averse.
Speaker 2: You know, like he they went to the lake recently,
Speaker 2: he did not want to ride on the tube behind
Speaker 2: the boat.
Speaker 3: He was just like, not for me.
Speaker 2: You know, he doesn't want to ride the intense rollercoaster
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Like I don't either, dude, I know
Speaker 2: I don't really either anymore.
Speaker 3: But he just he's very cautious.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's because you know, that
Speaker 2: situation on the waterslide, or there was another time we
Speaker 2: put him on Splash Mountain and just we're like, I
Speaker 2: didn't realize how intense that drop was on Splash.
Speaker 3: I know, he was like, who was it.
Speaker 1: You that we were talking? I have this fear on
Speaker 1: Splash Mountain every time we do it, and I've done
Speaker 1: it many times with my kids. I go through a
Speaker 1: whole checklist in my mind of was when this thing flips,
Speaker 1: how am I fun we're trapped underneath it? How am
Speaker 1: I saving these three fucking kids? Like I will look
Speaker 1: at when Chris and I used to do it with them.
Speaker 1: I would look at him and be like, what is
Speaker 1: your fucking plant? Yeah, and he's like, this is like
Speaker 1: a dumb conversation. I'm like, I can't help it. Walk
Speaker 1: me through. What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's the same thing, just like in
Speaker 2: general of like there's been a few things lately, like
Speaker 2: with boats where boats have kind of capsized and saying
Speaker 2: this happened in San Francisco Bay and New York City
Speaker 2: recently and people die. I know. It's like what do
Speaker 2: you do if you do have children who can't swim?
Speaker 2: You can't get a life jacket on them. The water's freezing,
Speaker 2: especially in San Francisco. Like that's terrifying, so terrifying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: those those the rides that that kind of stuff happens
Speaker 2: all the time, you know, like something flips or you know,
Speaker 2: messes up and yeah, how are you what are you.
Speaker 3: Doing in that?
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say that you get freaked
Speaker 2: out just about the drop on that one.
Speaker 3: But that's that's the whole thought. I didn't have Alix
Speaker 3: draw up.
Speaker 1: I get there and I'm like, what if the thing
Speaker 1: just like something was broken on the track and it
Speaker 1: just went over top and now you're stuffed inside, trapped
Speaker 1: because it's like a hole in the thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some kid jumped out of that recently. Did you
Speaker 2: see that video?
Speaker 3: No, he was like a fifteen year old.
Speaker 2: I think he like was on the log and just
Speaker 2: jumped out the last second and kind of like fell
Speaker 2: down the slide. He was fine, I think, banned from
Speaker 2: Disney World.
Speaker 1: But yeah, wait, why would he? Then the thing could
Speaker 1: run over him?
Speaker 3: I know. I'm like, doesn't this thing run on a
Speaker 3: fucking track?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm way risk averse. I don't do one
Speaker 1: thing that I think might hurt me. Yeah, physically, no
Speaker 1: physical pain, No physical pain. Yeah, terrifying, terrifying. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think there's all different ways. And I guess
Speaker 1: the point that you and I, you and I got
Speaker 1: to is that there's no right or wrong way. We
Speaker 1: have another friend who did it your way. They just
Speaker 1: announced the divorce, didn't talk about the gay at all,
Speaker 1: and then later brought up the gay. My therapist me
Speaker 1: do it all. She literally wrote us a script. It
Speaker 1: was so we had to read over it. But I
Speaker 1: think there's no It's almost like they are resilient. They
Speaker 1: if you love them and you say it lovingly. I
Speaker 1: just don't think it's harmful.
Speaker 2: I think that's the biggest thing, is like, as long
Speaker 2: as they see you showing up still loving them, they
Speaker 2: have everything they need in both homes. They see that
Speaker 2: they have their toys, they have their comfy bed, that
Speaker 2: security there.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: They see the two of you getting along, they see
Speaker 2: you spending time together when it matters. I think those
Speaker 2: are the things that's way way bigger than like how
Speaker 2: you explain it to them.
Speaker 1: Totally agree, And I mean.
Speaker 2: Calen even asked me the other day, did you guys
Speaker 2: fight when you were married? And because she sees us
Speaker 2: get along so well, so she yeah, and I'm like
Speaker 2: not really, I mean and just normal stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I like him as a human, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's easy when that's the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's so true. It's like, but I
Speaker 1: had one person tell me once, they like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: didn't fight because you weren't like passionately. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's true. What came first, the chicken or
Speaker 1: the egg? I don't know. Chris and I didn't fight either.
Speaker 2: I think, like going through therapy now, I do kind
Speaker 2: of see how we both leaned pretty avoid it, So
Speaker 2: I think that might be part of it, you know,
Speaker 2: just constantly avoiding.
Speaker 1: The don't rock the boat. Yeah, And I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: For me, sometimes I'm like fighting takes so much energy,
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to get mad.
Speaker 1: Like I know, and it's just like, don't you feel
Speaker 1: like the older you get, You're like, is anything that
Speaker 1: big of a deal? No, it just isn't. That's my
Speaker 1: new thing I do, which we talked about this on
Speaker 1: a pod, is I just really wouldn't I feel my
Speaker 1: body start to react in a negative way. It happened
Speaker 1: today very briefly. I just said to myself, do I
Speaker 1: really give a shit?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I'm usually like I really don't. Yeah, Like it's
Speaker 1: rare that I care that much. Yeah, just release it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it makes like everything so much less heavy.
Speaker 1: Everything is so much less heavy. I truly believe that,
Speaker 1: like if you're you know, if you just learn to
Speaker 1: like have your threshold for getting pissed, like not as
Speaker 1: easy to be triggered, you know.
Speaker 3: And stop taking things personally.
Speaker 1: I know, it's like there's a million reasons why shit happens. Yeah, yeah, huge, Okay,
Speaker 1: Well let's get to our next topic, which is the
Speaker 1: not controversial because everybody's bought in to that. You break
Speaker 1: up and you gotta go no contact. Yeah, gotta gotta
Speaker 1: do it. You can't get over it, cannot get over
Speaker 1: it unless you go no contact. Can't tact, shut them up,
Speaker 1: block them, block them on all socials.
Speaker 3: I'm guilty of this.
Speaker 1: No, It's is just like this has become like the
Speaker 1: Bible of breakups. Yeah, and I just I'm starting to
Speaker 1: question the whole Thing's it's new too. Our parents. My
Speaker 1: mom never went no contact with anyone. My sister didn't
Speaker 1: even She's like, what is this?
Speaker 2: But I don't feel like I ever had to do
Speaker 2: that before, like in college and then like you know,
Speaker 2: relationships in my twenties with men, I we hell, I
Speaker 2: don't even think i'd like really have a breakup conversation.
Speaker 3: We just stopped talking.
Speaker 1: Well that's because they were men and you didn't care.
Speaker 3: And I didn't care.
Speaker 1: But I mean, can you imagine, like you're I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to think you and I are hard because we
Speaker 1: were gay, But like, think about your straight friends that
Speaker 1: are you know, our age or older, like they don't
Speaker 1: do no contact. Like think about like in college or
Speaker 1: after college, your friends that were dating, they didn't have
Speaker 1: boyfriends that they were like, I'm gonna, well, we didn't
Speaker 1: even have social media in that way, Like I'm going
Speaker 1: to block them, I'm gonna I'm starting to think that
Speaker 1: I know I'm going to catch hell for this. This
Speaker 1: is a very hot take, but I think no contact
Speaker 1: is when you have a highly dysfunctional, manipulative Maybe you're
Speaker 1: in a situation where the person is like, not a
Speaker 1: great person and has wildly hurt you through actions that
Speaker 1: they did on their own, like they did things like
Speaker 1: you and I've both been in relationships and I've done things,
Speaker 1: so I'm perfectly guilty. But if it's just a breakup
Speaker 1: where it's just like this isn't gonna work, Like I
Speaker 1: like you as a person, you like me as a person.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that you have to do that. I
Speaker 1: just don't.
Speaker 3: I am like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I kind of I sit on the fence at this point,
Speaker 2: like I felt like I needed to do it at
Speaker 2: some points, because it is different with social media. You know,
Speaker 2: we didn't have that twenty years ago, and now it's
Speaker 2: like if you're still friends with them on social media,
Speaker 2: everything they post suddenly feels personal to you even though
Speaker 2: it's not.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's okay, But also it's.
Speaker 3: Kind of like immersion therapy.
Speaker 1: It's exposure therapy.
Speaker 3: Exposure therapy, and but I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I need like that little nervous system reset, you know,
Speaker 2: But maybe that can be done through muting someone instead of.
Speaker 1: Just kid yeah, no content. It's like, are we such god?
Speaker 1: I know I sound like so old now, but are
Speaker 1: we such babies? Are you such a baby? You can't?
Speaker 1: I have too, but it's like, are you such a
Speaker 1: baby that you can't? I don't know. Maybe I've been
Speaker 1: kicked enough that I'm just like, it's not I don't
Speaker 1: need to cut I can't think of anyone that i'd
Speaker 1: have to cut off completely because I can't handle even
Speaker 1: facing them. Like I'm not a baby. I guess like that.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not because I just I don't I
Speaker 1: see it sometimes if you have been harmed in a
Speaker 1: way that is like bad for you, yeah, but to
Speaker 1: just like if you and I have gotten a fight
Speaker 1: as friends and we're not going to be friends anymore,
Speaker 1: I don't need to go no contact with you. I
Speaker 1: would talk to you boundaried. I would say, you're no
Speaker 1: longer my best friend, you're somebody in my wheelhouse. Good
Speaker 1: to see you at the bar, Good to see you
Speaker 1: at the restaurant. Hope you're doing well. Like I just
Speaker 1: think we've taken everything to such an extreme of like
Speaker 1: the self care has made it so that you are
Speaker 1: alone in your life. You're so not you, but the
Speaker 1: world has become such a place that you're so boundaried
Speaker 1: and so quick to do all these things because you
Speaker 1: see it on TikTok. You're alone in your life. I
Speaker 1: hope it's nice in there.
Speaker 2: And I well, I think initially no contact was introduced
Speaker 2: as a way to get people that are very toxic
Speaker 2: out of your life, to stop interacting with them, to
Speaker 2: stop getting re engaged with them too, because I think
Speaker 2: that is one of the good things about no contact
Speaker 2: is that it stops that cycle, you know.
Speaker 3: Because it's very easy, especially.
Speaker 2: When you're dealing with someone who can be manipular, when
Speaker 2: you do kind of open back up to them and
Speaker 2: like start interacting with them again, they kind of start
Speaker 2: to pull you back in and then you're right back
Speaker 2: where you.
Speaker 1: But that seems like a you problem.
Speaker 3: It is. I mean, that's just it.
Speaker 2: It's like it's finding the strength to see through the
Speaker 2: bullshit that's happening and knowing and being like I'm not
Speaker 2: doing this anymore, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 1: To have enough self strength that you can say, I
Speaker 1: see what you're doing, don't love it. I'm going to
Speaker 1: remove myself from this narrative. But it doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: I have to be like God, we talked every day
Speaker 1: for three years, and now I never want to talk
Speaker 1: to you again. I shut you off of everything. You
Speaker 1: don't exist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's something cruel about that. And I again,
Speaker 2: I think it's like if something really bad happened, if
Speaker 2: that person cheated on you and it's just been something
Speaker 2: that's like continued to be an issue and painful, then yes,
Speaker 2: no contact, that's moranted. But I think if it is
Speaker 2: like an amicable breakup up, yeah, take a beat, do
Speaker 2: what you need to do, don't show up to some events,
Speaker 2: mute them on social media, you know, all that stuff,
Speaker 2: but like the whole completely blocking, not responding to when
Speaker 2: you do reach out for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: Having other people tell them. I've had other people tell me,
Speaker 1: like other people in the wheelhouse, to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: do not contact her, she's going to be there, don't go.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't live my life that way. First of all,
Speaker 1: you don't get to tell me where to go or
Speaker 1: what to do. But second of all, really, yeah, like
Speaker 1: I just find it, like so it's too much. It's
Speaker 1: like you can't apply that rule to everyone.
Speaker 3: And I've taken the other approach.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it is this person going to be there?
Speaker 3: There they are? Yeah, I'm so comfortable that I'm not going.
Speaker 1: You don't you pull yourself out? So but like, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine. Have you had someone before where you've totally
Speaker 1: thought that it was the amical breakup? But you're like
Speaker 1: I cannot see them, I cannot hear from them. I
Speaker 1: cannot have one dealing with them. I need to block them,
Speaker 1: mute them, quiet them. I don't know.
Speaker 2: What's amicable or like I didn't feel a little messed
Speaker 2: with Yeah, you know, but I mean I will say
Speaker 2: though I do like it initially, like for those first
Speaker 2: few weeks, I guess to just be like I don't
Speaker 2: want I don't want to be seeing their stuff and
Speaker 2: being feeling a little drawn in or questioning my decision.
Speaker 2: And I will if I see there's done. So for me,
Speaker 2: it's like a little bit of self protection. But I
Speaker 2: do agree that sometimes it is taken a little bit
Speaker 2: too far. It's like, we don't just because we dated
Speaker 2: and it didn't work out doesn't mean that we can't
Speaker 2: like be kind to each other and at least like
Speaker 2: be in touch at some point, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you get to be You don't have to
Speaker 1: be friends, but you can be friendly. Rights kind of
Speaker 1: the way I see it, You're never going to be
Speaker 1: my friend. I don't really stay friends with X's I
Speaker 1: just don't. I don't need to. So to me, it's like,
Speaker 1: but we can still be friendly. I can't be curious
Speaker 1: about your your life or some event you had. I
Speaker 1: don't know. For me, it's also like you can wait,
Speaker 1: I've seen this with you happen. You can wait the
Speaker 1: six months of no contact. Then you see the person
Speaker 1: and it's like day one all over again. It's like
Speaker 1: an alcoholic having a drink.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so then it's like, you waited all that time.
Speaker 1: Would you have been better off maybe to just have
Speaker 1: had boundaried exposure the whole time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's yeah, that's why it's so I don't
Speaker 2: know I don't know what the right answer is. But
Speaker 2: I'm also like, if there's someone that I dated and
Speaker 2: I spent significant time with them, I'm still like, even
Speaker 2: if they did suck in the end or I sucked, whatever,
Speaker 2: I'm still rooting for that person me too, Like, I
Speaker 2: still want to see good things happen for them. So
Speaker 2: it is nice to be able to still have some
Speaker 2: level of connection once the healing has taken place, to
Speaker 2: be like, oh, like they're doing good and that's awesome.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I wouldn't consider myself
Speaker 2: with friends friends with any exes, but maybe one where
Speaker 2: but it's you know, kind of like a distant friendship,
Speaker 2: but we're rooting for each other. Yeah, I want good
Speaker 2: things for her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, I understand the self protection,
Speaker 2: but I also understand like how it can just be
Speaker 2: almost weaponized in a way.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's.
Speaker 1: That's what I call factor. It's a control factor. And
Speaker 1: in a group like ours, where there's so many people,
Speaker 1: when I see it play out, it also becomes this
Speaker 1: like you're affecting everybody at this point. Yeah, because you've
Speaker 1: made such a scene that like in some cases, like
Speaker 1: I've seen in our I mean nothing we've had. It's
Speaker 1: safe and sweet and everybody's great, but it's like I
Speaker 1: think sometimes it's just like people need to lay off
Speaker 1: the TikTok therapy and just kind of be with themselves,
Speaker 1: show up and put a smile on face hard things.
Speaker 1: I Mean, one of the biggest lessons Tatum ask me
Speaker 1: one time, like, what is one thing that you feel
Speaker 1: like is like life changing advice? Like, well, what is
Speaker 1: something someone said to you that's like life changing? And
Speaker 1: the thing that I always remember is and my parents
Speaker 1: used to say this to me, and now I say
Speaker 1: it to my kids, if you can get comfortable being uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: you can do anything you want in your whole life.
Speaker 1: There's anything. There's no limit to what you can do
Speaker 1: if you can get comfortable being uncomfortable. And when we
Speaker 1: constantly protect ourselves from any discomfort, it's like, no wonder
Speaker 1: why you're not doing anything?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable it is for you and I to show up
Speaker 1: and make a documentary or start a thing when we
Speaker 1: don't know if one person is going to show up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to make this podcast from day one, when we had
Speaker 1: no one listening and it was so boring, and the
Speaker 1: dog's barking and we're in my closet. Yeah, I don't care,
Speaker 1: Like I don't. You have to risk being embarrassed, yeah,
Speaker 1: and not give a shit.
Speaker 3: And in so much of it is in your head.
Speaker 3: You know, it's all in your head. No one cares what.
Speaker 3: I don't know what people are saying.
Speaker 2: I might here like a little thing here or there,
Speaker 2: like we have with the documentary, and I'm also like,
Speaker 2: okay saying it.
Speaker 3: We're doing it, so go away.
Speaker 1: The other day I told Melissa something and she was
Speaker 1: literally like, I didn't even know people were saying that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's so good to be. You get a
Speaker 1: ship because you're comfortable. You are so comfortable being uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I see you do it all the time. You do
Speaker 1: stand up, you show up at a bar by yourself,
Speaker 1: You'll go to a city by yourself and go out.
Speaker 1: You are so comfortable being uncomfortable that it's just like
Speaker 1: there is no limit to the to what can happen
Speaker 1: when you start putting all these guardrails up, You're not
Speaker 1: going anywhere.
Speaker 2: Good Lafe, I haven't always been that way, you know,
Speaker 2: It's just a matter of like doing.
Speaker 1: It exposure therapy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I rejoined CrossFit last week.
Speaker 1: What was that about? What happened?
Speaker 2: Well, because I started, I was like, you know, I
Speaker 2: quit three years ago because I got hurt, and I
Speaker 2: just was kind of like, I'm getting kind of burnout
Speaker 2: on it, you know.
Speaker 3: And then I was, you know, dealing with.
Speaker 2: The the anemia and the hysterectomy and all those things.
Speaker 2: And I've just had so much energy since that happened.
Speaker 2: And so I've been trying to work out on my own,
Speaker 2: but I'm so not motivated. I will quit after five.
Speaker 3: Minutes of lifting weights and be like that's good.
Speaker 2: And so I started thinking, I'm like, I really miss
Speaker 2: the accountability that CrossFit brought me. I looked around for
Speaker 2: like some other gems around here, and I just wasn't
Speaker 2: finding anything that really matched what I've had there.
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know what, who cares. I'll
Speaker 3: just go back to the old gym, and good for you.
Speaker 2: Walked back in there. The owner was there, remembered me.
Speaker 2: There's like a bunch of people that are still members
Speaker 2: there that I still friends with and still know. So
Speaker 2: it's been like really easy to jump right back in
Speaker 2: and I think one of the reasons why I did
Speaker 2: quit was because I felt a little bit like the
Speaker 2: odd man out as far as being the only gay
Speaker 2: person in that gym and a land of suburbia. But
Speaker 2: I'm just walking in there again, like growing just in
Speaker 2: the past three years from where how I felt and
Speaker 2: being like I don't give a shit yeh here for me,
Speaker 2: I also had to let go of the cost factor
Speaker 2: because that was one thing that was bothering me. But
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm investing in my health totally, like I
Speaker 2: need that. At forty five, I need to build muscle
Speaker 2: again and again. Now that I've like in better health,
Speaker 2: I have so much energy, like night and day difference.
Speaker 1: So as much as people like give shit to the
Speaker 1: cult of CrossFit, everybody I know that doesn't looks good like,
Speaker 1: it's just you can't argue with right look good yeah, like.
Speaker 2: And that's just it. It's challenging and it's hard. I
Speaker 2: don't fall into the whole, like even the membership I
Speaker 2: signed up for. I'm not doing like the massive lifting
Speaker 2: and all that stuff, but it does help. It's good
Speaker 2: to lift heavyweights, yeah, and it is motivating. It's way
Speaker 2: different than going into like a planet fitness and walking
Speaker 2: on the treadmill for thirty minutes. You know.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's definitely there's an accountability there and
Speaker 1: it works. Yeah, and listen, just give those suburban moms
Speaker 1: a few more years, they're all going to be coming out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, my theory out.
Speaker 3: There like an example.
Speaker 1: You got to show them what they're missing.
Speaker 3: I too was straight once, ladies.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. All right, Well, I sound so angry about
Speaker 1: the no contact, So I don't. I think it's just
Speaker 1: came up today with a friend of mine who was
Speaker 1: feeling some kind of way about it, and I just
Speaker 1: like lectured her for like five minutes on you need
Speaker 1: to do what feels good inside you, not because the
Speaker 1: world has told you you have to do this thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, I think it works in some cases.
Speaker 2: In some cases it's just maybe warranted for a short time,
Speaker 2: but not eternity.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, people break up and it's okay, and.
Speaker 1: It's okay, and you can see the person and you're
Speaker 1: still going to be okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: So all right, I guess we solved a few problems.
Speaker 3: I think we did were created more. We have tough
Speaker 3: ones today all right.
Speaker 1: So what your plan? You have your kids this weekend?
Speaker 3: I do you don't? Wait, I don't sorry, I'm going
Speaker 3: to hang out with Tamra.
Speaker 1: Oh sweet, okay, very cool.
Speaker 2: I'm also doing the scavenger hunt thing with my kids
Speaker 2: on Saturday morning, another lovely blended family activity that we
Speaker 2: do where I will be on a team with Tom's wife.
Speaker 2: Tom will be on another team for the scavenger hunt
Speaker 2: with her ex husband.
Speaker 1: Fun.
Speaker 3: So we do like girls versus boys?
Speaker 1: Who do the kids want to be with? Oh, it'll
Speaker 1: be bracketting, Kaylen's like girls versus boys?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: And we have to like go through this list of
Speaker 2: stuff to find around Peachtree City and it's it's so
Speaker 2: much fun.
Speaker 3: Like and Tom's team wins every year, so there's that.
Speaker 1: Okay that makes it not as fun. But okay, I
Speaker 1: actually when you were telling the story, I was thinking
Speaker 1: my money would be on Tom.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean he also my nephew on his team,
Speaker 2: and he's like seventeen and is all over these golf
Speaker 2: cart paths, so he knows where everything is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he can get there in two seconds.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, we're like, I'm never on a golf cart anymore,
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: And who would be working on a golf course? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: it sounds fun. All right, We'll have a glass and
Speaker 1: I'll catch you later, all right, bye bye bye.
Speaker 3: I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast.
Speaker 2: Rate us and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker 1: We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
Speaker 1: email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali
Speaker 1: A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles