1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,879 Speaker 1: Okay, let's dive right in. I want you to imagine 2 00:00:02,879 --> 00:00:06,400 something for a moment. Picture an ancient city, a place 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,720 where the line between just static art and actual life 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,960 seemed almost non existent. You're talking about roads, exactly, ancient 5 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:21,440 roads not just famous for its beauty, but according to 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,879 some old accounts, it was apparently filled with these huge 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,440 statues bronze or stone that could supposedly just well get 8 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:29,280 up and walk around. 9 00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: It sounds completely fantastical, doesn't it pure myth? 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: It does, But then you look the sources. We actually 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,799 have the poet Pindar way back in the fifth century BC. 12 00:00:38,759 --> 00:00:39,679 Speaker 2: A respected source. 13 00:00:39,759 --> 00:00:43,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And he wrote that Rhodes was decorated with 14 00:00:43,119 --> 00:00:46,200 statues that literally came to life, like living, moving creatures. 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,960 He wasn't like describing some kind of one off miracle. 16 00:00:49,079 --> 00:00:51,000 It sounds more like he was talking about functional things, 17 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:52,439 objects that moved. 18 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,719 Speaker 2: On their own autonomously. 19 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,399 Speaker 1: Right. And if you take Pindar seriously, even for a second, 20 00:00:58,079 --> 00:01:01,280 it forces you to ask some pretty deep questions technologistly speaking, 21 00:01:01,439 --> 00:01:04,879 and philosophically too. Yeah, if you start with something lifeless 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,400 like marble or these huge sheets of bronze, and then 23 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:12,879 something or maybe someone gives it autonomy, gives it motion, 24 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,359 maybe even I don't know, decision making. Are we talking 25 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,239 magic here or is this sophisticated engineering? 26 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: Could these actually be sort of historical nods to advanced 27 00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:26,319 robotics way back then, two and a half thousand years 28 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,120 before we even had microprocessors. 29 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: That's the big mystery we want to unpack today. And 30 00:01:30,719 --> 00:01:33,280 the sources we're looking at they suggest something even wilder. 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,079 They hint that the know how to build these kinds 32 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,719 of things, these self moving automatons, It wasn't necessarily something 33 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,840 that Greeks figured out all on their own, step by step. 34 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,359 Speaker 2: Right. The more controversial angle we're exploring is this idea 35 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:48,319 that the technology was shared or maybe just given given 36 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:51,879 by who, by advanced beings what the ancients called the gods, 37 00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:56,879 but interpreted here as potentially extraterrestrial visitors, beings who didn't 38 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,680 just have fancy ways to travel, but also like really 39 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,000 advancean's knowledge of metallurgy, physics, and complex automation. 40 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:06,439 Speaker 1: It sounds like pure sci fi. It's easy to just 41 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,479 dismiss it all as mythology. 42 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,599 Speaker 2: Of course, until you bump into actual physical evidence stuff 43 00:02:12,599 --> 00:02:16,400 that just completely messes with our standard timeline of ancient. 44 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: Tech artifacts that show people back then could do things well, 45 00:02:21,159 --> 00:02:23,199 things our history books say they shouldn't have been able 46 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:23,400 to do. 47 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,479 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And the classic example, the one everyone points to, 48 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,120 is the antikather mechanism. 49 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: Ah. Yes, that thing is mind blowing. 50 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,719 Speaker 2: It really is. When you look at this incredibly complex 51 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,280 analog computer found in a shipwreck, it just forces you 52 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,319 to rethink what the ancient Greeks were capable of. It's 53 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:46,319 not just intricate. We're talking dozens of tiny, precisely made 54 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,800 bronze gears interlocking perfectly. Some are less than a centimeter across. 55 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just doing simple math, was it not 56 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:53,479 at all? 57 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 2: It had a differential gear system. I mean, that's sophisticated stuff. 58 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,000 It could model the complex orbits of the Sun, the Moon, 59 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,840 the planets they knew. It could even predict eclipses accurately and. 60 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: Track things like the Olympic cycle right the four year 61 00:03:05,159 --> 00:03:06,240 period exactly. 62 00:03:06,319 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: And that level of technology calculating these complex astronomical cycles, 63 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,400 encoding that into hardware, it just seems about fifteen hundred 64 00:03:15,439 --> 00:03:17,759 years too early. It feels like something from the Renaissance, 65 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,080 not ancient Greece. 66 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: The kind of engineering needed to mill those gears so precisely, 67 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,159 including that differential gear which lets you add and subtract rotation. 68 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,439 It shows they could do incredibly complex mechanical. 69 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: Work, It really does. And the leap from an advanced 70 00:03:34,039 --> 00:03:37,319 calculator like that, even an autonomous one, to basic automation, 71 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,280 maybe even robotics, suddenly doesn't seem quite so enormous, does it? 72 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:44,319 Speaker 1: Not as big as you'd think. 73 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: So if these advanced beings had the knowledge to share 74 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,919 the tech behind the anti Cathera device, the argument goes, 75 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,360 then it's logical they probably had the ability to create 76 00:03:53,439 --> 00:03:56,199 much more complex things too, maybe even humanoid robots. 77 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,879 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's our mission today. Then we're taking these 78 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:02,319 ancient stories, walk statues, mechanical servants, and we're going to 79 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:03,960 really impact them. Look at the details. 80 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: Compare them to what we're trying to do right now 81 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,159 with modern engineering, things like self replicating AI, humanoid robots 82 00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:11,199 getting ready for Mars. 83 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, we want to explore this idea. Are we inventing 84 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,120 AI from scratch today or is it possible we're actually 85 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,920 just remembering, rediscovering knowledge that might have been around on 86 00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:24,360 Earth a long long time ago. 87 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,079 Speaker 2: Could the blueprint for AI have been here all along, 88 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,160 maybe hidden in myths, maybe in technology that got left behind. 89 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,240 That's what we're diving into. 90 00:04:31,319 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: All right, let's zoom in on Greece first, treat some 91 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,560 of these myths almost like technical case studies, and we 92 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,199 absolutely have to start with Hephaestus, the blacksmith god, the 93 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:43,720 ultimate divine engineer. 94 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,519 Speaker 2: Hefasis is the perfect example. He's the tech guy of 95 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,199 the gods in Greek stories, and he wasn't just some 96 00:04:49,319 --> 00:04:53,480 abstract figure. He's linked to real places, real activities. The 97 00:04:53,519 --> 00:04:56,000 sources mentioned the island of Lemnos, where you can still 98 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,439 find the ruins of a city named Hefestio after. 99 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,639 Speaker 1: Him, the god of metallergy, and the stories say he 100 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,360 fell from the sky right, got injured, which maybe forced 101 00:05:05,399 --> 00:05:07,600 him to rely more on his inventions exactly. 102 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:09,959 Speaker 2: That's the narrative. And what's really fascinating is how his 103 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,720 workshop is described. It doesn't sound like some magical mythical forge. 104 00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:17,639 It sounds well futuristic, like a modern fabrication lab. 105 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. The descriptions have him surrounded by these automated robots, 106 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,199 and they weren't just statues, they were actively moving working. 107 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: The source of say He just like flips a switch 108 00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:30,920 and these machines bustle around doing all the sort of 109 00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:32,319 the hard busy work for him. 110 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: Think about that automation freeing up the creator. 111 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,319 Speaker 2: It's exactly the same reason we build robots today, isn't 112 00:05:38,319 --> 00:05:42,839 it to handle the mundane, the repetitive, the physically demanding 113 00:05:42,879 --> 00:05:45,879 stuff so the engineers, the designers can focus on the 114 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,720 bigger picture. Hiphustus wasn't swinging the hammer for every little thing. 115 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,319 He had mechanical helpers. 116 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: It sets a clear ancient precedent, whether you see Hifoxis 117 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,639 as a god or maybe an advanced being using tools, 118 00:05:58,879 --> 00:06:01,959 using robots to say energy for more complex tasks. 119 00:06:02,199 --> 00:06:06,879 Speaker 2: It's a logical, practical concept. But Hefestus's most famous creation, Tailos, 120 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,399 that takes automation out of the workshop and puts it 121 00:06:09,439 --> 00:06:12,279 into a completely different league, a defensive one. 122 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:15,439 Speaker 1: Tailos you could argue he's the first fully autonomous security 123 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:16,759 robot in recorded history. 124 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,639 Speaker 2: Definitely, Talos is like the peak of ancient robotic security concepts. 125 00:06:22,079 --> 00:06:27,000 A giant man made entirely of bronze, huge scale, incredible complexity, 126 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,639 and his job was clear protect crete, snop invaders, stop 127 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,279 unauthorized ships, from landing. 128 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: And he wasn't just standing there like a scarecrow. He 129 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,720 was mobile, a sentinel patrolling the whole coastline. 130 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, fully autonomous, and his abilities as described are just 131 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:44,959 chillingly advanced for the time. 132 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: He could supposedly spot ships approaching from far away, like 133 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,480 some kind of early warning system, right, yeah, maybe advanced optics, 134 00:06:51,519 --> 00:06:52,839 maybe something else entirely. 135 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 2: Some form of detection. Yeah, and once he identified a threat, 136 00:06:56,199 --> 00:06:59,000 he'd hurl these enormous boulders down from the cliffs. 137 00:06:59,319 --> 00:07:00,879 Speaker 1: But the craziest part is the heat thing. 138 00:07:00,959 --> 00:07:04,399 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the thermal weapon. The sources say he could 139 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:09,079 basically superheat himself, release this heat and just incinerate ship's 140 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,920 cruise anything that got too close. 141 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: How would people in the bronze age even describe that? 142 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,839 A giant metal man throwing rocks and getting incredibly hot 143 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,079 sounds like the best description they could managed for some 144 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,199 kind of advanced. 145 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,839 Speaker 2: Defensive tech exactly, And the sources get even more specific. 146 00:07:23,879 --> 00:07:26,959 They talk about Tailo's having this single vein running from 147 00:07:26,959 --> 00:07:29,959 his neck to his ankle, filled with icor the blood 148 00:07:29,959 --> 00:07:32,399 of the gods, and it was sealed with a bronze 149 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,360 nail or plug. 150 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so what's the interpretation there. 151 00:07:35,639 --> 00:07:38,759 Speaker 2: Well, the ancient astronaut theory suggests that this vein and 152 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:42,759 plug could be a mythological description of a crucial internal system, 153 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,879 maybe a power cond it, a fuel line for that 154 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,399 heat weapon, or even a cooling system. If this thing 155 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,639 generated immense heat, it would need something sophisticated to stop 156 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,079 it from melting down, a regulation systems precisely. So, was 157 00:07:56,199 --> 00:07:59,120 tellus just a myth or was it a description of 158 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,160 a sophisticated autonomous piece of military hardware. 159 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,759 Speaker 1: The functions described they really lean towards the machine idea. 160 00:08:06,879 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: And it's interesting how the myth says he was defeated 161 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:12,040 right by removing the plug, letting the equord drain out. 162 00:08:12,199 --> 00:08:14,879 Speaker 1: Yes, that doesn't sound like killing a person. It sounds 163 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,319 like disabling a machine, like draining the coolant or the 164 00:08:17,399 --> 00:08:20,040 hydraulic fluid, or cutting the power. It makes the whole 165 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,439 system shut down. The detail there really strengthens the idea 166 00:08:23,439 --> 00:08:26,279 that it was an engineered object. It really does. And 167 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,759 this idea creating artificial life or movement. It wasn't just 168 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,120 a Greek thing, was it not? 169 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: At all? That's what makes this so compelling. You find 170 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,039 similar concepts all over the ancient world. It suggests maybe 171 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,639 a common origin for the idea, or like some sources 172 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,639 claim shared knowledge from. 173 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: Somewhere else right outside Greece. The core idea giving life 174 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:49,919 to inert matter is there, but the myth is described 175 00:08:49,919 --> 00:08:52,559 are different, which is interesting for comparison. 176 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 2: Take the Golum from Jewish tradition described. 177 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: In the Tumud made of clay, right, a. 178 00:08:57,639 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 2: Clay figure brought to life by putting a fixed spell 179 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,120 or maybe a coded instruction like the word emet truth 180 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:08,279 into its mouth. The focus there is on symbolic input 181 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,240 like a command. 182 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:10,879 Speaker 1: Okay, and India. 183 00:09:10,919 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: In India, you've got the Lokapanati, an ancient Sanskrit text 184 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,000 fifth century BC, again talking about spirit movement machines. 185 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,799 Speaker 1: Spirit movement machines, again using mystical language to describe what 186 00:09:21,919 --> 00:09:24,240 might just be mechanics they couldn't explain. 187 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: Possibly using the vocabulary they had for an effect mechanical 188 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,399 motion automation whose cause was maybe beyond their understanding at 189 00:09:31,399 --> 00:09:31,759 the time. 190 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,919 Speaker 1: But the Chinese account from the Lias that one seems 191 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,840 incredibly detailed, almost technical. 192 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,399 Speaker 2: Oh. The Leezy story is phenomenal. Written by the philosopher 193 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,559 Layuku supposedly in the fourth century BC, though some dating 194 00:09:45,639 --> 00:09:49,200 is debated. If the core story is that old, it 195 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,799 potentially rewrites the history of complex robotics entirely. 196 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: Tell us about it. 197 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: It describes as brilliant engineer Yan Shi, and he presents 198 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,639 this absolutely unbelievable gift to Ca Mu of the Zoo dynasty, 199 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,879 and we're talking maybe three thousand years ago, if the 200 00:10:04,919 --> 00:10:08,519 internal dating is right. The gift was an automaton, a 201 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,879 life sized mechanical person designed to look like a courtier. 202 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,600 It performed astoundingly well, according to the text it's saying, beautifully, 203 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,080 moved with perfect human grace, did complex dances. Kingmu, the 204 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,799 whole court, they were just mesmerized. It looked and acted 205 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,240 completely human until the machine did something maybe a little 206 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:29,480 too human, or perhaps something programmed in as a feature. 207 00:10:29,919 --> 00:10:35,200 It winked at the ladies of the court, started flirting shamelessly. Yes, 208 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:41,039 and this display of inappropriate robot behavior really angered Kingmu. 209 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,080 He thought maybe it was a real person in disguise 210 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,039 trying to trick him. 211 00:10:44,159 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: That detail, the flirting, Why even build that in unless 212 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,600 you're trying to create something not just functional but convincingly social. 213 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:54,399 An early AI test. 214 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,799 Speaker 2: Maybe it makes you wonder. So the King, furious and suspicious, 215 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,679 ordered on She to take the automaton apart right there 216 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:03,799 to prove it wasn't real. 217 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: He did. 218 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,639 Speaker 2: He did, and this is where it gets really interesting, 219 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,519 almost like an engineer's report. As Yon she removed the parts, 220 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,320 the text explicitly links the components to specific functions like 221 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,480 what okay. So when he took out what was described 222 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,240 as the heart, the automaton couldn't speak anymore. When he 223 00:11:20,279 --> 00:11:22,000 removed the kidneys, it couldn't see, and when he took 224 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,720 out the liver, it stopped being able to walk. 225 00:11:23,879 --> 00:11:27,879 Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredibly specific. Heart for speech, kidneys for site, 226 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:29,000 liver for movement. 227 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 2: So we have to look at this through that technological lens. 228 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,360 The sources suggest was Yon she literally talking about biological 229 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,080 organs or was he using the only words he had 230 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,639 human anatomy to describe complex internal system like metaphors exactly. 231 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,759 The argument is maybe these weren't organs, but different batteries 232 00:11:46,879 --> 00:11:50,919 or different power sources or control modules powering different aspects 233 00:11:50,919 --> 00:11:51,600 of the robots. 234 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: So the heart wasn't biological, it was maybe the power 235 00:11:53,879 --> 00:11:55,120 supply or processor for the. 236 00:11:55,159 --> 00:11:58,519 Speaker 2: Voice system could be the kidneys for site, maybe the 237 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,200 power or controller for optical sensors, the liver for walking, 238 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,600 probably the main motor control unit, or perhaps the central 239 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,639 hydraulic pump if it used hydraulics. 240 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: It makes you think about how they would have understood 241 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,600 complex machines back then. We know today that if the 242 00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:16,519 power supplied to, say, your vision system fails, the robot 243 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,240 goes blind. Maybe the kidney was just that the power 244 00:12:20,279 --> 00:12:21,000 source for vision. 245 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:23,919 Speaker 2: The story suggests they were already grappling with concepts like 246 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:29,080 complex programming, power distribution, mechanical movement, sensors, integrating multiple systems, 247 00:12:29,639 --> 00:12:32,919 the exact same challenges engineers face today building robots. 248 00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: And the big question hangs, there was this incredible device 249 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,720 something they developed themselves, or was it inspired by or 250 00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:45,440 maybe even built by those alleged advanced visitors the gods. 251 00:12:45,799 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: The sheer level of functionality described movement, speech, site, even 252 00:12:50,799 --> 00:12:54,799 social interaction like flirting, suggests system integration that is just 253 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,279 staggering for the fourth century BC. 254 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,759 Speaker 1: And that level of integration getting all these complex systems 255 00:13:00,799 --> 00:13:04,639 to work together smoothly, that's precisely where modern robotics is 256 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,919 pushing boundaries. Today. We've gone from these ancient stories of 257 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,120 giants and flirtatious machines to a very real, very expensive, 258 00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:16,200 modern effort to build advanced humanoid. 259 00:13:15,799 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: Robots, and often for similar reasons. Funnily enough, think about 260 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,080 Tailo's garden crete. Now, think about why we build robots today. 261 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,080 Often it's for exploration and work in places too dangerous 262 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,759 are difficult for humans, like space exactly, deep space travel, 263 00:13:29,919 --> 00:13:34,080 colonizing other planets. Sending humans first is incredibly risky, slow 264 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,759 and expensive. It just makes more sense to send autonomous 265 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,279 robots ahead as pioneers, which is. 266 00:13:38,279 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: What NASA has been doing for decades, right, starting with 267 00:13:40,759 --> 00:13:41,720 remote controlled rovers. 268 00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:44,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, look at the Mars rovers like opportunity. We send 269 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,039 instructions from Earth, it carries them out autonomously, millions of 270 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,799 miles away, looking for minerals, signs of past water, evidence 271 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:51,360 of life. 272 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: It's the ultimate remote worker. But we're moving beyond just 273 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:55,919 rovers now we are. 274 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: We've got the humanoid ROBINOT two up on the International 275 00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:02,399 Space Station actually working side by side with astronauts helping 276 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:03,279 with tasks. 277 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,799 Speaker 1: And then there's Valkyrie, the super robot. 278 00:14:06,039 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: Valkyrie is the next big step, designed specifically for tasks 279 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,480 like setting up habitats on other planets, preparing power systems, 280 00:14:14,759 --> 00:14:17,720 basically getting things ready for humans to arrive on places 281 00:14:17,759 --> 00:14:20,799 like Mars. It's built to use human tools in complex, 282 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,639 unstructured environments. 283 00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: It has the dexterity, the size. 284 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: Right, and the key insight here connecting back to the 285 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,399 ancient astronaut theory is simple logic. If we are investing 286 00:14:31,559 --> 00:14:35,639 billions to use humanoid robots like Valkyrie for the dangerous 287 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:38,759 prep work of exploring and settling other worlds, then. 288 00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense that any truly advanced extraterrestrial civilization 289 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,440 traveling across stars will be doing the same thing probably 290 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,120 did it long ago. 291 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: Valkyrie is, in a way, the modern Telos sent ahead 292 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,879 to prepare and secure a future frontier, but this time 293 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,240 it's our frontier on Mars. 294 00:14:55,559 --> 00:14:58,639 Speaker 1: But for these robots to be really effective, especially in 295 00:14:58,879 --> 00:15:02,440 unknown places like Ma, they need more than just strength 296 00:15:02,519 --> 00:15:05,080 and the ability to move around. They need senses right. 297 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,519 They need to understand what they're touching, what they're. 298 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,519 Speaker 2: Interacting with, almost like a human does. And that brings 299 00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:13,480 us to some really cutting edge work happening right now, 300 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:18,080 like doctor Veronica Santo's at UCLA's Biomechatronics Lab what are 301 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,159 they working on. They're tackling one of the toughest challenges. 302 00:15:21,679 --> 00:15:25,840 Giving robots a sophisticated sense of touch, the ability to 303 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:31,879 feel texture, hardness, temperature and react appropriately. It's crucial for 304 00:15:32,159 --> 00:15:33,799 delicate manipulation tasks. 305 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:34,639 Speaker 1: How do they do that? 306 00:15:34,759 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing They've built this artificial finger test bed. 307 00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:41,039 It's incredibly censor rich, very dexterous. It doesn't just measure 308 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,840 pressure like simpler sensors. It measures multiple things at once, 309 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,759 like vibration for texture, internal fluid pressure, to map how 310 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,240 four spreads across the fingertip, how the artificial skin deforms 311 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,519 when it squeezes something, and temperature too. 312 00:15:54,679 --> 00:15:57,639 Speaker 1: In all that data gets fed into an AI exactly. 313 00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: The AI processes all these different sins three inputs together 314 00:16:01,279 --> 00:16:04,039 to build a really detailed picture of whatever the finger 315 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:04,960 is touching. 316 00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:05,919 Speaker 1: So it can figure things out. 317 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. For instance, just by measuring tiny changes in electrical 318 00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:13,679 resistance as the fingerpad squishes, it can instantly tell if 319 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,000 it's touching soft foam or hard glass. That kind of 320 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,039 fine sensory discrimination is vital. 321 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:23,399 Speaker 1: And that links directly back to space exploration, right. Yeah, 322 00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:27,200 giving these humanoid robots the ability to work precisely in 323 00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:29,559 alien environments where we can't easily go. 324 00:16:29,799 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: It spans the whole range, from better prosthetic limbs for 325 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,519 humans right here on Earth to robots that can build 326 00:16:35,559 --> 00:16:38,480 habitats on Mars. But the moment you give a machine 327 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:42,120 sophisticated senses the ability to react to its physical world, 328 00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:47,080 you slam right into that huge philosophical wall consciousness, emotion, 329 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,840 Exactly can a robot really feel anything? Can it have emotions? 330 00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:54,000 We barely understand human emotion completely? How can we define 331 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,799 it well enough to recreate it artificially? 332 00:16:55,879 --> 00:16:58,559 Speaker 1: It's a massive hurdle, a paradox almost, Yeah, how do 333 00:16:58,559 --> 00:17:00,440 you program something you can't fully? Fine? 334 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: But maybe the sources hint we're looking at it the 335 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,960 wrong way. Think about the basics in biology? What is pain? 336 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,079 Speaker 1: Oh, a signal tells you something's wrong? Stop doing that? 337 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:14,839 Speaker 2: Right? A complex feedback mouminism for survival and learning. So 338 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,680 if a robot can tell the difference between sensory input 339 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,279 that's good for its systems, stable temperature, normal pressure, and 340 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,200 input that's extreme heat, crushing. 341 00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:25,599 Speaker 1: Force, input that signals damage. 342 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, if it can register that bad input and learn 343 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,799 to avoid it, isn't that like the very first tiny 344 00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:36,400 step towards developing preferences avoidance, maybe even a very basic 345 00:17:36,759 --> 00:17:38,480 form of awareness. 346 00:17:39,039 --> 00:17:42,319 Speaker 1: We're feeling a mechanical version of pain avoidance. 347 00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:44,799 Speaker 2: And this is where the ancient astronaut theory comes back 348 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:48,240 with a really provocative idea. Maybe these interventions, these myths 349 00:17:48,279 --> 00:17:51,039 were meant to prepare us for this moment, to show 350 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,799 us through stories like the Flirting robot, that we humans 351 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:57,680 these complex biological machines. Maybe we're not so different from 352 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:02,680 machines ourselves, just highly advanced organic self repairing ones self repairing. 353 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:05,039 Speaker 1: That leads to the next big idea, doesn't it the 354 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,039 ultimate machine? 355 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: Taking that concept of the biological automaton even further, yes, 356 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,480 we arrive at maybe the most profound technological concept of all, 357 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,079 the self replicating machine. And incredibly, this concept might also 358 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,480 be reflected in some very ancient myths, specifically resurrection myths. 359 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: Okay, now we're going to Egypt to Osiris. 360 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,319 Speaker 2: Osiris a central figure hugely important, sometimes depicted as a pharaoh, 361 00:18:31,559 --> 00:18:34,240 and the imagery around him can be interpreted in very 362 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,119 technical ways. You often see him associated with that wing 363 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:40,519 disk symbol shown descending from the sky, which. 364 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: Aat proponents often interpret as depicting some kind of vehicle, right, 365 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,640 an extraterrestrial craft. 366 00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:48,319 Speaker 2: That's the interpretation. Yes, but the core Osiris myth is 367 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,039 about his death and rebirth. His jealous brother Seth kills him, 368 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:53,720 dismembers the body. 369 00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:56,759 Speaker 1: Cuts him into fourteen pieces, scatters them all over Egypt exactly. 370 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 2: But his wife Isis searches relentlessly, finds all the pieces 371 00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:04,640 except one in most versions, and she manages to pull 372 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,000 him together again. She reassembles him, and then crucially, she 373 00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:10,000 resurrects him, brings him back to life. 374 00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: So looking at that sequence, this memberment, careful reassembly, then reactivation. 375 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,279 Speaker 2: You have to ask the question the sources post is 376 00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:21,599 it possible Osiris wasn't entirely biological? Could he have been 377 00:19:21,759 --> 00:19:26,000 perhaps a highly advanced modular machine, a robot that needed 378 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:29,759 literal mechanical repair and then a power up sequence. 379 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: That sounds like a huge leap from the myth? Is 380 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,319 there anything specific that supports that mechanical view? 381 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,839 Speaker 2: There is supporting symbolism, particularly in the pyramid text. Think 382 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,839 about the DJed pillar. It's a famous Egyptian symbol often 383 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,680 described as representing Osirus's spine or backbone, Okay. Now, Researchers 384 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,799 like William Henry have pointed out that when Osirius is 385 00:19:49,839 --> 00:19:53,119 shown in his resurrected form, he's often depicted as this pillar, 386 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,039 and the d JED pillar itself looks remarkably like well, 387 00:19:57,079 --> 00:19:57,880 like a modern day. 388 00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: Tesla coil tesla coil. Seriously, why is that significant? 389 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: Because what does a tessel coil do? It transmits electrical energy, 390 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,359 often high frequency currents, wirelessly or through resonant coupling. So 391 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,319 if the DJed pillar is Asyrus's spine and it looks 392 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,359 like a power transmission device, maybe the myth is describing 393 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,039 the reactivation sequence, reassembling the parts, then connecting the central 394 00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:18,640 power condo. 395 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,279 Speaker 1: It reassembly plus power up, like rebooting a machine precisely. 396 00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 2: And there's more. There's a specific carving at Abydos It 397 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:30,960 shows isis, but she's not just mourning or doing magic. 398 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,039 Her hand seems to be literally inserted into Osiris's back, 399 00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:37,599 right near where the DJed pillar connects. 400 00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:40,319 Speaker 1: Like she's fixing something, manipulating controls. 401 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,519 Speaker 2: It looks much more like an engineering task repair manipulation 402 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,559 than a purely religious ritual. It potentially transforms the myth 403 00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:50,920 from spiritual resurrection into something like a technical manual for 404 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,240 repairing complex hardware. 405 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so this ancient idea modularity, repair, reassembly, it's 406 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,000 actually becoming reality now, isn't. 407 00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 2: It Only very recently? Yes? Think about that work done 408 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,960 in twenty fourteen at the University of Oslo, they developed 409 00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:08,039 robots that could adapt their movement even after losing a limb. 410 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,400 They could figure out how to keep going despite damage. 411 00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:13,039 Speaker 1: But they went further than just adapting. 412 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: Right they did. The really groundbreaking part was that these 413 00:21:15,319 --> 00:21:17,880 robots could use an onboard three D printer to actually 414 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,839 fabricate a replacement limb and then attach it themselves self repair, 415 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,160 no humans needed. 416 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,599 Speaker 1: That is literally Osiris being pulled back together and switched 417 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:27,039 back on. 418 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,279 Speaker 2: But in a modern lab it's the same fundamental concept, 419 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,720 and that ability self repair, self sustenance. It leads directly 420 00:21:35,839 --> 00:21:40,200 to the ultimate dream or maybe nightmare of advanced AI, 421 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,000 the self replicating machine, the kind needed to really explore 422 00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:46,359 the cosmos. 423 00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: An idea formalized by John von Neumann back. 424 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: In the forties, the von Neumann probe or seed machine. 425 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,559 The concept is both elegant and a bit terrifying. You 426 00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:57,920 send out one initial machine, the seed. Its program is simple, 427 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,559 find raw materials on an asteroid, moon wherever, and use 428 00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:04,079 those materials to build perfect copies of itself. 429 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,519 Speaker 1: So one becomes two to two becomes four exponential growth. 430 00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:11,279 Speaker 2: Exactly in theory. These machines could explore and map the 431 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,480 entire galaxy, the entire universe, far faster and more comprehensively 432 00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:18,319 than any mission carrying biological beings ever could. 433 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: But just copying the physical machine isn't enough, is it? 434 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,000 For them to be truly useful explorers. 435 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: That's the critical part. The replication has to include more 436 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,079 than just metal and circuits. Each new generation needs to 437 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,119 inherit the knowledge, the memories, the learning of the previous ones. 438 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,880 They need access to the entire accumulated library of data, 439 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,920 but also remain adaptable to new discoveries. 440 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: It's like technological heredity passing down learned information. 441 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: Right, and this brings us right back to that core 442 00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:54,279 extraterrestrial claim. The argument is purely logical. Advanced civilizations operating 443 00:22:54,319 --> 00:22:59,799 across interstellar distances probably wouldn't send fragile, slow, resource and 444 00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:03,799 of biological crews on potentially million year journeys. 445 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: They'd send machines. 446 00:23:05,079 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 2: They'd almost certainly have developed and deployed self replicating, artificially 447 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,759 intelligent von Neumann probes long ago sent them out as 448 00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:16,000 sentinels to scan, explore, report back, covering vast regions of 449 00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:16,920 space efficiently. 450 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: And the theorists connect this idea back to ancient Egypt too. 451 00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: They do. They point to some of the oldest Egyptian 452 00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:26,319 creation myths, the ones talking about formless light beings emerging 453 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:28,799 from a primordial source sometimes called the island of the 454 00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:30,680 Egg to create the world. 455 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: Or civilization, light beings as robots. 456 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,599 Speaker 2: The interpretation is that maybe these weren't beings in a 457 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,079 spiritual sense, but perhaps highly advanced self replicating machines, maybe 458 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,200 energy based, maybe using specialized genetic codes or operating systems 459 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,720 brought from their home world. The machines arrived, first establish 460 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,119 a beachhead, set up the infrastructure, and then start the 461 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,079 expansion process. 462 00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: So the first visitors might not have been biological pilots 463 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,880 at all, but these incredibly resilient autonomous machines. 464 00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 2: It's a logical possibility grounded in the physics and engineering 465 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,519 challenges of interstellar travel. It flips the script on the 466 00:24:06,599 --> 00:24:09,000 usual aliens and flying Saucer's image, So. 467 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: Tracing this thread from Pindar's living statues on Roads, the 468 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,359 giant bronze guard Tallos, then the incredibly detailed Chinese automaton 469 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,400 that could flirt. 470 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,839 Speaker 2: All the way to our modern humanoid robots like Valkyrie 471 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,599 getting ready to do the same kinds of jobs preparations, security, exploration. 472 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: But on Mars, it feels like this continuous story, this 473 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,359 drive to create artificial autonomous life, spans our entire recorded history. 474 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:38,759 Speaker 2: Absolutely, that fascination, maybe even that capability, seems embedded deep 475 00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:41,880 within us, reflected in myths from all corners of the 476 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,599 ancient world, Greek, Jewish, Indian, Chinese, This constant push to 477 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,400 bridge the gap between inert matter and thinking, moving, perhaps 478 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,319 even feeling machines. 479 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,559 Speaker 1: Which brings us to the final thought for you, the listener, 480 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:58,079 Based on everything we've unpacked from these sources, is it 481 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,799 possible that what we're doing today, developing AI, building robots, 482 00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:05,720 is it really invention? Or are we just somehow tapping 483 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,440 into knowledge that was already here on Earth thousands of years. 484 00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:12,839 Speaker 2: Ago, Knowledge perhaps brought here may be deliberately shared, maybe 485 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,880 just observed by ancient travelers from elsewhere. 486 00:25:16,039 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: Are we truly discovering artificial intelligence for the first time. 487 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,839 Speaker 2: Or is this whole incredible journey into machine learning and 488 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,400 autonomy actually an act of remembering, remembering a technological inheritance 489 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,079 we either lost, or perhaps one we were showing glimpses 490 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,759 of long long ago, something to definitely think about.