Speaker 1: This is a clip from Bloody History. You can access
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Speaker 2: The way it works, you compartmentalize, just like you do
Speaker 2: an intelligence You keep these guys away from the knowledge
Speaker 2: of half of what it is they're actually there to do.
Speaker 2: And this is how you can get a job done
Speaker 2: very cleanly. Nobody can possibly rat out to the cops
Speaker 2: because they don't know what's going on, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: Yep. Another interesting part of the Tramps to me is
Speaker 1: the timing on when they were arrested, because the call
Speaker 1: that came out came out at one fifty six pm,
Speaker 1: which means those guys had to hide. They were hiding
Speaker 1: for an hour and a half. They were seen jumping
Speaker 1: at the ninth box car by Lee Bauers, who calls
Speaker 1: the police and then the police and you know Bass
Speaker 1: and Wise and allegedly Middleton, but Middleton swears he wasn't
Speaker 1: working that day. So that's another mystery right there. But
Speaker 1: they were actively jumping at the ninth box car, and
Speaker 1: so what were they doing for that hour and a half?
Speaker 1: Could they not get out of where they were? Were
Speaker 1: they where were they hiding? You know? Those are the
Speaker 1: questions that I'm very curious about that incident.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, like I said, if you sent them to
Speaker 2: meet somewhere else and they're supposed to meet nearby, and
Speaker 2: then they're told listen, if it doesn't happen, you go
Speaker 2: to the train yard and you know, somebody else will
Speaker 2: pick you up there or something like that, and then
Speaker 2: they see the commotion going on. Why wouldn't you try
Speaker 2: and jump in a car and hide, right, because that
Speaker 2: would be a way for you to just get carried
Speaker 2: out of the area so you can avoid whatever the
Speaker 2: commotion is and you don't even know what the commotion's about.
Speaker 2: I'm just offering speculations here right right, because these guys
Speaker 2: in a lot of cases legitimately say they don't know
Speaker 2: what was going on, and people say, oh, they're lying.
Speaker 2: I think in a lot of cases they're not. They
Speaker 2: were dispatched without the knowledge of what was actually happening.
Speaker 2: You don't share this with one hundred people what's happening,
Speaker 2: because otherwise, you know, the whole thing gets replicated too often.
Speaker 2: Too many people's stories start to line up. But if
Speaker 2: you got twenty guys and nobody's got the same story,
Speaker 2: what is a cop going to do. He can't match
Speaker 2: up any of these other guys. That's why they had
Speaker 2: to let him go, you know what I mean, Because
Speaker 2: the guy's got no knowledge. No matter what they do,
Speaker 2: they can't even beat it out of him because he
Speaker 2: doesn't know. You see what I mean? Yep, Okay, So anyway,
Speaker 2: fair enough on that. But Green, just because he has
Speaker 2: that skill, I mean, I wouldn't get hung up on that.
Speaker 2: He doesn't have to be a shooter. I mean, maybe
Speaker 2: you've got other evidence that says he is, but I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying theoretically, he's a good guy to just
Speaker 2: send a dispatch to do another job, you know, drop
Speaker 2: off some money somewhere and now wait over by the
Speaker 2: train yard. And then they see a commotion, they say,
Speaker 2: screw this, We're going to go hide somewhere. And he
Speaker 2: was supposed to meet with those other two guys. That's
Speaker 2: the more important question is how do these three guys
Speaker 2: come together.
Speaker 1: That is a good question because each other Mosari and
Speaker 1: Green are together from Cleveland. That's that's a given. But
Speaker 1: the short tramp, the short tramp I identify as a
Speaker 1: guy named Vincent caltigeron Junior and so Vincent Calton Geron
Speaker 1: Junior is like it's he's one of the most important
Speaker 1: pieces of the puzzle, and he's never been written about,
Speaker 1: talked about ever in any book, No Kennedy researchers ever
Speaker 1: even mentioned his name in the In the Shadows, Okay.
Speaker 1: Vincent Caltageron Junior is based in Houston. He is former
Speaker 1: or maybe even present at the time of thesassination Naval Intelligence.
Speaker 1: He at one time in the nineteen I think the
Speaker 1: late nineteen forties through the late nineteen fifties is married
Speaker 1: to the sister of Jack Valenti, Lorraine Valenti, who will
Speaker 1: then go on to become Lorraine Valenti Dinerstein.
Speaker 2: This is why the guy's name. Okay, okay, because I'm
Speaker 2: thinking of myself, why do I recognize this? This guy
Speaker 2: keeps bringing up and now I know why.
Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead, well I'll tell you how this is.
Speaker 1: This was like probably the most shocking thing when I
Speaker 1: knew that I was onto something. So I had taken
Speaker 1: a break from direct assassination studies to start studying Jack Valenti.
Speaker 1: I read through the Jack Valenti file. I pulled apart
Speaker 1: everything I could on that guy's life. I'm probably like,
Speaker 1: not that anybody ever gave a fuck with by Jack Valenti,
Speaker 1: but I'm probably one of two or three people in
Speaker 1: the world who know anything about that guy. And so
Speaker 1: it turns out that.
Speaker 2: Was a couple of the LBJ did It guys have
Speaker 2: gone into Valenti a bit, but more or less they
Speaker 2: talk about his you know, manipulation of the media and
Speaker 2: how he becomes you know, rises up he's the president
Speaker 2: of the mp A and stuff like that. You know,
Speaker 2: that's usually what they wind up focusing on. But he
Speaker 2: only only the uh, the LBJ did it guys usually
Speaker 2: go into Valenti.
Speaker 1: So with Vincent call to Gerond Junior, he ends up
Speaker 1: marrying Jack Valenti's sister. They have two kids, Tom Tom
Speaker 1: called gerone, and I forget the other brother's name, but
Speaker 1: they have two kids. And basically I just kind of
Speaker 1: registered it as I'm reading it, and I kind of
Speaker 1: was like, okay, acknowledge. I put it on a shelf.
Speaker 1: Then I start to study the Winterland Ice Arena, which
Speaker 1: is the official name of the Winterland Ice Rink.
Speaker 2: And the Winderland David Ferry allegedly.
Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, go ahead, So the woman who started
Speaker 1: the Winterland her name is Mary Boots Roberts. She was
Speaker 1: a famous ice skater, and her husband, Ronnie Roberts, was
Speaker 1: also a famous ice skater that did Disney on ice
Speaker 1: and ice capades. As we know, these are all smuggling
Speaker 1: operations for the CIA. At the same time, she will
Speaker 1: later in her life allegedly go to work for NASA
Speaker 1: at the Gemini and Apollo missions. But I tore apart
Speaker 1: those files on the Gemini and Apollo missions. Her name
Speaker 1: appears nowhere in the universe in those files. So she's
Speaker 1: clearly a spook. So when you dig into Mary Boots Roberts,
Speaker 1: what you'll find is that her birth name was called
Speaker 1: to Girone. So I'm studying this. I'm studying this, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, call to Geron, where the hell do I
Speaker 1: know this name from? Right? And then I'm like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: I remembered it from the Jack Valenti file. So I
Speaker 1: go back to the Jack Vilenti files. I confirm that
Speaker 1: Vincent called to Geron Junior, who was married to Jack
Speaker 1: Valenti's sister. And now I have Mary Boots Roberts, whose
Speaker 1: birth name is called to Gerone. Well, I did a
Speaker 1: full genealogy on her and guess what Vincent called the
Speaker 1: Geron Junior is her first cousin. That's not a coincidence.
Speaker 1: That is, to me, the most important discovery in all
Speaker 1: of Kennedy in sixty years. No one has ever put
Speaker 1: that together before. The first cousin of Mary Boots Roberts
Speaker 1: is the former brother in law of Jack VALENTI right,
Speaker 1: And so when you look at the relationships of the Winterland,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the Winterland was owned by Lyndon Johnson. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you knew that the Winterland was owned
Speaker 1: by Lyndon Johnson and the Johnson family enterprise who built
Speaker 1: half of Houston. They were he was the richest president.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna. Wasn't it technically owned by
Speaker 2: Lady Bird because she had ownership of all those kind
Speaker 2: of things along with the TV stations and all that.
Speaker 2: Wasn't that really under her?
Speaker 1: I don't think so, because it was his parents first.
Speaker 1: It was the company was started by his parents, by
Speaker 1: Lyndon Johnson's parents, and so Lyndon Johnson is the owner
Speaker 1: of the Winterland. So now how do I have I
Speaker 1: have Vincent called the Garne married to Jack Valenti's sister,
Speaker 1: and Jack Valenti is the right hand man of Lyndon Johnson, right,
Speaker 1: and Linden and then Vincent, called the Grone, is the
Speaker 1: first cousin of Mary Boots Roberts. So I'm like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: this is like a closed loop of interaction between these
Speaker 1: four people who obviously knew each other very intimately, And
Speaker 1: so that brings me away.
Speaker 2: The reason why I bring up Lady Bird is because
Speaker 2: quite often Johnson has her owning these supposedly legitimate assets
Speaker 2: right where he doesn't own them, but obviously he's got
Speaker 2: control over. I mean, he's getting you know, the bags
Speaker 2: of cash off of everything and skimming off of every
Speaker 2: single operation, whether it's a TV station or anything else.
Speaker 2: He's getting cash skims off of everything. But some of
Speaker 2: that stuff is on paper owned by Lady Bird Johnson,
Speaker 2: who probably didn't even know half of what she allegedly owned.
Speaker 1: Right, He probably put in her name for legal protection
Speaker 1: reasons and stuff. So so we have this is what
Speaker 1: I theorize. How and if to remember, James Earl Ray
Speaker 1: identified the Short Tramp as the real Raoul, and I
Speaker 1: have even more backing evidence to show Vincent Calter Groan
Speaker 1: Junior was the real Raoul based on the statements of
Speaker 1: Glenda Grabow interviewed by James Douglas. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've read through that stuff. Basically they talk about how
Speaker 1: they would they would bring Vincent to the Alabama Theater
Speaker 1: because that's where Jack Valenti was, and so that makes
Speaker 1: perfect sense because if Vincent Calter Garone is the former
Speaker 1: brother in law of Jack Valenti and she's bringing Raoul
Speaker 1: to meet with Jack Valenti, duh, this is like another
Speaker 1: piece of a puzzle. It just fits perfectly together. So
Speaker 1: I totally believe James Rolway's statements identifying the Short Tramp
Speaker 1: as Raoul, and I totally believe that Vincent was Raoul,
Speaker 1: and Vincent was the Short Tramp and Daily Plaza, and
Speaker 1: he's also the you know, related to the woman at
Speaker 1: the Winterland. This is just too I'm sorry, this is
Speaker 1: way too much coincidence in one place. There's way too
Speaker 1: much smoke here for there not to be any fire, right,
Speaker 1: And so what I believe happened was David Ferry never
Speaker 1: went to the Winterland at all. He was in Dallas
Speaker 1: where he shot the president, and then he gets in
Speaker 1: his car, the light blue Ford Falcon station Wagon, which
Speaker 1: is an identical copy of his Mercury Comet light blue
Speaker 1: but different made by the same manufacturer with different branding. Okay,
Speaker 1: So he then heads to Hammond, Louisiana, where the whole
Speaker 1: stuff with Frank Chelona and David and Thomas Compton. Right, So,
Speaker 1: Frank Chelona debunked David Ferry's alibi. He says, David Ferry
Speaker 1: was sleeping in my roommate's bed on the twenty third
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. Well, that only works. David Ferry never
Speaker 1: went to Winterland. And so when you look at the
Speaker 1: descriptions of the person who did go to the Winterland,
Speaker 1: he's over six foot tall, over two hundred pounds, and
Speaker 1: he's wearing a red toupey and he had big fluffy eyebrows.
Speaker 1: They weren't painted on, they were like glued on. Okay. So,
Speaker 1: and the guy introduced himself as David Ferry five times.
Speaker 1: Why would you do that to draw attention to yourself? Right, So,
Speaker 1: what I think happened was Arcocha left Dallas with the
Speaker 1: two boys, Leyton Martin's and Alvin Boboof remember ar Kaca
Speaker 1: was involved with these kids in the break ins at Homa,
Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of other stuff. Right, they were
Speaker 1: tight for years, so it's not like a stretch to
Speaker 1: put Arcaca with the two boys. But I believe it's possible.
Speaker 1: He also drove Vincent called to Gern Junior from Dallas
Speaker 1: to Houston. And why do I say that, because if
Speaker 1: you dig into the David Ferry file, you'll find one
Speaker 1: page where it explains that in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning, when they show up and Houston,
Speaker 1: they don't go right to the Alamotel. They go to
Speaker 1: the They go to the Winterland, and they look around
Speaker 1: at the Winterland first at four in the morning, when
Speaker 1: it's obviously closed, and then they go to the Alamotel. Well,
Speaker 1: here's where it gets really good. So the Alamotel is
Speaker 1: directly Remember there's a bunch of phone numbers that they called.
Speaker 1: One of the calls went unidentified forever. It's to this day,
Speaker 1: no one's identified except for me and Jim Garrison. And
Speaker 1: so the phone number that goes unidentified is to a
Speaker 1: place called the Gateway Swim and Skate. And so the
Speaker 1: Gateway Swim and Skate is obviously it's got a pool,
Speaker 1: it's got a roller skating rink. It is directly next
Speaker 1: to the Alamotel. Okay. So they get to they get
Speaker 1: to Houston, they check in the alamote I think what
Speaker 1: they did was they drop Vincent off at the Winterland.
Speaker 1: Then they go to the Alamotel and they go to sleep.
Speaker 1: The next day they call there, Well why would they
Speaker 1: be calling the Gateway Swim and Skate? Well, when you
Speaker 1: study Vincent, you come to realize he was a longtime
Speaker 1: employee of the Downtown Houston YMCA. Can you guess what
Speaker 1: the Downtown Houston YMCA was before it was the YMCA?
Speaker 1: It was the Gateway Swim and Skate. So David Ferry
Speaker 1: then tells the FBI that they went to the bell
Speaker 1: Air skating rink. Right, Well, guess what. The bell Air
Speaker 1: was knocked down in nineteen fifty nine and in its
Speaker 1: place was built the Gateway Swim and Skate. Okay, So
Speaker 1: David Ferry is obviously aware of He's obviously doing some
Speaker 1: nefarious shit involving Vincent and involving the bell Air, which
Speaker 1: then became basically the Gateway, Right, how would he know
Speaker 1: it was called the bell Air if he hadn't been
Speaker 1: going there since nineteen fifty nine, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you slot in the Rose Chermi story with this?
Speaker 2: As far as the traveling to Texas.
Speaker 1: Oh, one hundred percent. I believe everything that happened in
Speaker 1: there is accurate, except she didn't get thrown out of
Speaker 1: no car. She was just a real pain in the ass,
Speaker 1: and she got actually thrown out of the bar by Macmanuel.
Speaker 1: She wasn't beat up or thrown out of the bar by.
Speaker 1: But it was our Katcha and Amelio Santana who were
Speaker 1: in the car with her, And so I put those guys.
Speaker 1: I put Arcocha on the roof, and I put Santana
Speaker 1: at the ledge underneath the fire escape.
Speaker 2: At the Dalteks, those I believe were shooters. Yeah, Now,
Speaker 2: she might have gotten beaten up, right, but I think
Speaker 2: she got beat up. Well, she was on the road
Speaker 2: walk and after they did her at the bar is
Speaker 2: what I think happened.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Well, then from there she gets in the
Speaker 1: ambulance to go to the hospital, right, and they take
Speaker 1: her to the local hospital and she starts talking about
Speaker 1: they're going to kill Kennedy. Everyone's like, you're full of shit,
Speaker 1: and then Francis Frooge. Actually he didn't show up after
Speaker 1: the assassination. He showed up, and he was the one
Speaker 1: who escorted her the hour or two hour drive to Jackson, right,
Speaker 1: and he drops her off there, and so in the
Speaker 1: car right.
Speaker 2: She's she's withdrawal because look, she's in withdrawal. She's heroinautic.
Speaker 2: So she's having all kinds of problems and they don't
Speaker 2: want to deal with her at that hospital. So Fruge
Speaker 2: takes her to the next place where they will trade her. Right.
Speaker 2: But that is, yeah, that is during the time right
Speaker 2: before the assassination. That's not after.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's on the that was on the twentieth that
Speaker 1: all that happened. And so then of course after the assassination,
Speaker 1: Francis Fruge or however you pronounce it, says, oh my god,
Speaker 1: she was right. They killed the president. And so he
Speaker 1: goes back and talks to her, and then they do
Speaker 1: this like little miniature investigation. They try to find out
Speaker 1: the sailor on the ship.