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Speaker 9: Now listening to True Murder the most shocking killers in
Speaker 9: true crime history and the authors that have written about
Speaker 9: them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week another
Speaker 9: fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers
Speaker 9: in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist
Speaker 9: and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 10: Good Evening. In August nineteen forty five, Gladys Lincoln of
Speaker 10: Sacramento contacted prosperous doctor W. D. Broadhurst of Caldwell, Idaho,
Speaker 10: and rekindled the romance from twenty years earlier. After many
Speaker 10: passionate letter exchanges and several sexually charged meetings, they were
Speaker 10: married in Reno, Nevada, on May twentieth, nineteen forty six,
Speaker 10: after a passion and passion filled three day weekend together.
Speaker 10: The doctor returned to his home in Idaho, and Gladys
Speaker 10: returned to Sacramento and to her husband, Leslie Lincoln. But
Speaker 10: Gladys was much more than a bigamist. Gladys needed something
Speaker 10: even she didn't understand. She married her first husband when
Speaker 10: she was twenty, and her second husband only fourteen months later.
Speaker 10: The second marriage lasted only two years, the third less
Speaker 10: than sixteen months. Leslie Lincoln was her fifth and doctor
Speaker 10: Broadhurst became her sixth. But what desperate need drove her
Speaker 10: to go from marriage to marriage? Then what dark mindset
Speaker 10: moved her and her young cowboys show for to commit murder?
Speaker 10: Find out Until Death Do Us, the gripping new true
Speaker 10: crime from Wild Blue Press author Patrick Gallagher, whose grandfather
Speaker 10: was Gladys's lead defense attorney during her sensational trial. The
Speaker 10: book that we're featuring this evening is Till Death Do Us,
Speaker 10: a true crime story of bigamy and murder, with my
Speaker 10: special guest, author Patrick Gallagher. Welcome to the program, and
Speaker 10: thank you very much for this interview. Patrick Gallagher.
Speaker 6: Thank you, Dan, it's my pleasure to join you today.
Speaker 10: Thank you very much. It's an incredible, fascinating tale back
Speaker 10: in the forties in the United States and small town America.
Speaker 10: Let's get right to this.
Speaker 6: You start off.
Speaker 10: About May nineteenth, nineteen twenty seven, and Gladys June Ralph
Speaker 10: and she's twenty Do you have it all? She's twenty
Speaker 10: years old and she's living in Minnedoka, Idaho, population two hundred.
Speaker 10: But tell us a little bit about her background with
Speaker 10: her parents, William and Anna, and her four siblings. Tell
Speaker 10: our audience a little bit about her background and just
Speaker 10: a little bit how she grew up.
Speaker 6: Well. Gladys was the middle of five children. She had
Speaker 6: four brothers, so she was the only girl in a
Speaker 6: strong Mormon family.
Speaker 11: And.
Speaker 6: All of her brothers married well and successfully. But somehow
Speaker 6: or other, Gladys didn't seem to achieve that. And I
Speaker 6: wonder how much that early upbringing had to do with her.
Speaker 6: You know, I have no evidence of anything inappropriate happening
Speaker 6: when she was young, but at one point she did
Speaker 6: make a comment that she was used to being hurt,
Speaker 6: so there may have been something there. But the main
Speaker 6: thing is that Gladys grew up in a fairly normal family.
Speaker 6: But she married young, and she married often.
Speaker 10: You say too, that her family really took the Mormon
Speaker 10: religion very seriously, and she didn't take it so seriously
Speaker 10: at all. You say more early. Yeah, yeah, you talk
Speaker 10: about early marriage too. May nineteenth, nineteen twenty seven. She's
Speaker 10: twenty years old. Tell us a little bit about this
Speaker 10: marriage to William Basil Hendrix and how long it lasted.
Speaker 6: Well, Gladys was, as we mentioned, only twenty That wasn't
Speaker 6: extremely young for those days, even today, a lot of
Speaker 6: girls get married by the time they're twenty. But her,
Speaker 6: her marriage lasted such a short amount of time, it
Speaker 6: seems to me that it must have been not good
Speaker 6: from the very beginning. And of course I've tried to
Speaker 6: make the book as true as possible. At one point
Speaker 6: I considered trying to add more to the story that
Speaker 6: was fiction, but I gave that up because I decided
Speaker 6: that my goal was to make this book as completely
Speaker 6: accurate historically as possible. And so I don't know much
Speaker 6: about her marriage other than the fact that it lasted
Speaker 6: such a brief amount of time. But then she married
Speaker 6: again so quickly right afterwards.
Speaker 10: You say, in August sixth, nineteen twenty eight, so less
Speaker 10: than a year later, and she was residing in Burley, Idaho.
Speaker 10: You say, in less than two and a half years
Speaker 10: she was divorced again. But in Burley she met a
Speaker 10: person you called the sweetheart, a young doctor chiropractor named
Speaker 10: Willis David Broadhurst w w D. As he wanted to
Speaker 10: be addressed, and he had a chiropractic clinic in Burley.
Speaker 10: How did they meet? How did the doctor and gladys meet,
Speaker 10: and what did they do? Once they did how was
Speaker 10: the relationship, what was characteristic of it?
Speaker 6: Well, I'm quite sure that Gladys was a patient of
Speaker 6: the doctors in his chiropractic practice, but they were all
Speaker 6: both Mormon, so they could have been that they met
Speaker 6: at church as well. This relationship didn't last a long time,
Speaker 6: but of course she's still married to another man, and
Speaker 6: we have to read between the lines from the facts
Speaker 6: that we know, and it's very possible that she engaged
Speaker 6: in an affair with the doctor, at least emotionally, and
Speaker 6: that result then her second divorce. It also resulted in
Speaker 6: the doctor leaving town, so that leads me to think
Speaker 6: that there really was something that went on there. He
Speaker 6: moved from Burleigh, which is in southeastern Idaho, to Caldwell, Idaho,
Speaker 6: which is way west southwestern Idaho, very close to the
Speaker 6: Oregon border.
Speaker 10: Now, you say, at the end of the second marriage,
Speaker 10: Gladys had the next seven years officially unmarried. And interestingly,
Speaker 10: she toured and sang. She's a multi instrumentalist and played
Speaker 10: in something called the Ralph's Novelty Orchestra.
Speaker 6: That's right. Ralps was her maiden name, and her parents
Speaker 6: and her brothers were all quite musical and they had
Speaker 6: a band that traveled around mostly in California, and it
Speaker 6: appears that she engaged these next seven years unmarried and
Speaker 6: traveling with the band. And probably he's enjoying a pretty
Speaker 6: good normal life at that time.
Speaker 10: You said. The next man that she marries is and
Speaker 10: named a man named Carol Anderson. They were unlike some
Speaker 10: of her partners, they were similar in age. She was
Speaker 10: there one year apart in age, and they married in
Speaker 10: January thirtieth, nineteen thirty nine. And at that time she
Speaker 10: invented a new middle name for herself, which was Elaine.
Speaker 10: And they were in Westwood, California, home of the new
Speaker 10: campus of the UCLA. How did Gladys feel about moving
Speaker 10: from this small place Burley five thousand population to Sacramento.
Speaker 6: Well, for a woman like Ladys who enjoyed the company
Speaker 6: of men and enjoyed being going out and going to shows,
Speaker 6: going to movies, going to dances, moving from a small
Speaker 6: town in Idaho to down in California, I was a
Speaker 6: pretty heavy experience. I think she really enjoyed that. She
Speaker 6: enjoyed the limelight. She enjoyed going out. That wasn't good
Speaker 6: for her marriage, but I think she enjoyed the broader
Speaker 6: field that she recognized down there. As far as her
Speaker 6: middle names go, I find that very interesting. Her birth
Speaker 6: certificate had no middle name at all. When she married
Speaker 6: her first husband, William, she chose a middle name of June.
Speaker 6: But now when she marries this last guy, this next gentleman,
Speaker 6: now all of a sudden, it's Elaine. So it shows
Speaker 6: that Gladys is it feels pretty free to alter the
Speaker 6: facts to suit her feelings and opinion at the time.
Speaker 10: Right you, righte that she likes big, strong men, and
Speaker 10: there's a big modern sawmill in the town and the
Speaker 10: Paul Bunyans from Westwood, California. But you talk about the
Speaker 10: fourth marriage to a gentleman named Virgil D. Warren June ninth,
Speaker 10: nineteen forty sixteen months after her third marriage, and you
Speaker 10: write that she was married at a Baptist church. Meanwhile
Speaker 10: she's Mormon. Just evidence that she doesn't take a religion
Speaker 10: as seriously as many would, I guess, or many do.
Speaker 10: And this Virgil is twenty eight years older, and he
Speaker 10: also worked at this sawmill. What was again, what was this?
Speaker 10: How long did this marriage last? And what was there
Speaker 10: anything interesting about this marriage? Incidental?
Speaker 6: Little? I think What's interesting, Dan about this marriage is
Speaker 6: that this husband also works in this big sawmill, and
Speaker 6: of course it was the biggest, most modern saw mill
Speaker 6: in the world. And as you mentioned, this company used
Speaker 6: the story of Paul Bunyan as kind of their theme.
Speaker 6: People always raise their eyebrows when I tell him that,
Speaker 6: because they equate Paul Bunyan with you know, Minnesota and
Speaker 6: Wisconsin in that part of the world. But he actually
Speaker 6: the stories actually emanated from this mill. They used his
Speaker 6: stories as advertising material. And but this next husband, now
Speaker 6: he's he works in the same mill, So that's got
Speaker 6: to have caused some real raised eyebrows around there. Did
Speaker 6: she have an affair with him? Did her current husband
Speaker 6: know him? If they didn't know each other, they surely
Speaker 6: knew people who knew both of them, So I think
Speaker 6: that must have really been quite quite a subject of
Speaker 6: gossip around the mill on those days.
Speaker 10: You say, within a year, Gladys moves back to Sacramento
Speaker 10: and files for divorce. World War two meanwhile was in
Speaker 10: full force. Who does Gladys meet just around that time,
Speaker 10: the tough strong man.
Speaker 6: Gladys That's right, another big strong guy named Leslie Lincoln.
Speaker 6: And Leslie was a lieutenant in the army, and they
Speaker 6: were actually married on base at Fort or Down in California.
Speaker 6: And shortly after they were married, Leslie was sent off
Speaker 6: to the East Coast to serve there and Gladys remained behind.
Speaker 6: She lived briefly with her mother in law, but most
Speaker 6: of the time she lived on her own while her
Speaker 6: husband was away at the war, and there's no evidence
Speaker 6: that he actually was in combat. I believe that he
Speaker 6: served his time in Washington, d c. But he was
Speaker 6: gone from home, and so in a way that was
Speaker 6: kind of a new exciting experience for Gladys. She was married,
Speaker 6: but she didn't have the husband to have to take
Speaker 6: care of him be near her.
Speaker 10: She had the freedom. What was interesting too, is when
Speaker 10: on the marriage license when they put occupation, what are
Speaker 10: some of the things that Gladys put interestingly on that
Speaker 10: marriage license.
Speaker 6: Well, she put that she'd been a teacher. And I've
Speaker 6: never found any evidence the Gladys ever was gainfully occupied
Speaker 6: other than her time served traveling with her family band.
Speaker 6: I've never seen any evidence that Gladys worked in any
Speaker 6: capacity other than as a musician.
Speaker 10: Yes, we talked about just a minute ago about the
Speaker 10: two and a half years of freedom that Gladys enjoyed
Speaker 10: until Leslie was discharged in nineteen forty four. They moved
Speaker 10: to Taft, California, until October nineteen forty five, and then
Speaker 10: they went to Sacramento, and Gladys wasn't having much fun.
Speaker 10: Apparently there was a new issue between that Leslie had
Speaker 10: to discover. What was that issue about Gladys that he discovered.
Speaker 6: Well, it turns out that Gladys had become addicted to
Speaker 6: a sleeping drug called nimbutol, which was a medication prescribed
Speaker 6: to help people with sleeping, but it also was a
Speaker 6: very deadly medicine if taken in large quantities, and was
Speaker 6: actually used to commit executions when people on death row
Speaker 6: were executed. This drug was used for that purpose sometimes.
Speaker 6: So it was a bad drug and she had become
Speaker 6: addicted to it.
Speaker 10: Now, August twentieth, nineteen forty five, you're write, Gladys sends
Speaker 10: it to somebody she knew from the past. Who does
Speaker 10: she send a telegram to? And you write that the
Speaker 10: message was never found, but likely the message, just the
Speaker 10: intent of the message would be. What tell us about
Speaker 10: this telegram?
Speaker 6: Well, Gladys has a little bit change of pace, here
Speaker 6: and previously looking for new husbands, she always found somebody
Speaker 6: newer and younger and stronger. But this time she looked
Speaker 6: to her past and she sent an email, excuse me,
Speaker 6: a telegram. They didn't have emails in those days. Now,
Speaker 6: she sent a telegram to doctor Willis David Broadhurst and Calledwell, Idaho,
Speaker 6: and she rekindled the relationship that they'd had twenty years
Speaker 6: earlier when they were in Burley, Idaho.
Speaker 10: Right now, she determined something. You write that and you
Speaker 10: get inside her mindset. But it's obvious that she does
Speaker 10: have some things that she needs to address before she
Speaker 10: can be successful in attracting this new paramore, this person
Speaker 10: from the past. What were those things that she knew
Speaker 10: that she had to have an order to be able
Speaker 10: to appeal to this doctor.
Speaker 6: Well, the first thing is she had to convince the
Speaker 6: doctor that she was not after his money. He had
Speaker 6: become quite wealthy. In fact, by this time, now twenty
Speaker 6: years after their earlier relationship, he'd moved to Caldwell. He'd
Speaker 6: been very successful. He still had a successful chiropractic practice,
Speaker 6: but he also had become a landowner. He owned a
Speaker 6: dairy farm in Calwell, Idaho, where he lived. He didn't
Speaker 6: do the dairy work. He leased it out to another dairyman,
Speaker 6: but he owned one hundred and sixty acres there in Calwell,
Speaker 6: just on the outskirts of town. He also had purchased
Speaker 6: a large cattle ranch in eastern Oregon that was measured
Speaker 6: in sections. He had several sections of land, thousands of
Speaker 6: acres of land where he ran cattle and had a
Speaker 6: ranch out there as well. And the doctor had been
Speaker 6: very successful and really his dream was to retire from
Speaker 6: his chiropractic work and to become a full time rancher.
Speaker 6: And so you know, he loved working on the ranch
Speaker 6: and engaging in all the cattle drives and the hanging
Speaker 6: and everything like that. So he's very wealthy. At this point,
Speaker 6: Gladys can't look like a gold digger, so she has
Speaker 6: a solution. She informs the doctor that she has inherited
Speaker 6: three million dollars from her aunt, Mary Johnson, who lived
Speaker 6: in Hawaii and had bequeathed to her her estate worth
Speaker 6: three million dollars. So therefore that makes her much more
Speaker 6: wealthy than the doctor, and she thinks that will eliminate
Speaker 6: any thoughts on his part that she's marrying him for
Speaker 6: his money.
Speaker 10: What about her stated marital status, which was pretty interesting
Speaker 10: what she say regarding that to him.
Speaker 6: Well, of course she can't marry the doctor if she's
Speaker 6: still married, and and of course she doesn't even want
Speaker 6: the doctor to know how many times she's been married.
Speaker 6: And so she concocts this story that her husband was
Speaker 6: killed in London during World War Two, and that he
Speaker 6: had a twin brother, an identical twin brother, who was
Speaker 6: very evil guy, and he had learned of her inheritance
Speaker 6: from her aunt Mary, and he was trying to assume
Speaker 6: the identity of her dead husband, Leslie Lincoln, and thereby
Speaker 6: gain access to this huge inheritance that she had coming.
Speaker 6: And I think the reason that she created this story
Speaker 6: is if for any reason, the doctor should come into
Speaker 6: contact with Leslie, she would be able to explain that, well,
Speaker 6: that's not really Leslie, that's my dead husband's twin brother.
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Speaker 6: So he had already made excuse in case something like
Speaker 6: that happened.
Speaker 10: So Leslie doesn't know about this correspondence, and that correspondence
Speaker 10: between her and the doctor is continuing. What happens, How
Speaker 10: does Leslie find out about this and what's his reaction?
Speaker 6: Well, as you, I think he mentioned earlier, Gladys and
Speaker 6: the doctor met in Reno, spent this three day weekend there,
Speaker 6: got married, and returned home. He was thrilled that he
Speaker 6: had a new wife, and she's attractive woman and younger
Speaker 6: than him. She was eleven years younger than the doctor,
Speaker 6: so he was quite thrilled with his new status. And
Speaker 6: he was quite a letter writer, and he wrote her
Speaker 6: a bunch of letters, and Gladys did her best to
Speaker 6: intercept those letters, but sooner or later she missed one
Speaker 6: and Leslie found it. Leslie actually found a letter from
Speaker 6: the doctor and a letter from the doctor's wife that
Speaker 6: showed that Gladys had now gone and created bigamy and
Speaker 6: married this doctor while still married to Leslie. So at
Speaker 6: that point everything blew up in their face.
Speaker 10: Now there's a person named Leo O'shay, and this will
Speaker 10: be interesting much later in this conversation. How does he
Speaker 10: fit into this around this time as well?
Speaker 6: Well, Dan, I'm reading between the lines on this again,
Speaker 6: But to me, the evidence points to the fact that
Speaker 6: she must have had some sort of relationship with Leo
Speaker 6: O'Shea at this time. So she's married to Leslie, she's
Speaker 6: I guess courting the doctor as the word to use here,
Speaker 6: at least trying to entice him, and had some sort
Speaker 6: of relationship with Leo, whether they were next door neighbors,
Speaker 6: lived across the street, knew each other through some other means,
Speaker 6: or even maybe had an affair. I don't know the
Speaker 6: truth on that, but very clearly she knew knew Leo
Speaker 6: at the same time. However, that ended and she went
Speaker 6: and married the doctor, and ultimately, when everything blew up
Speaker 6: and Leslie found out about it, she contacted the doctor
Speaker 6: and he came down and rescued her from the evil
Speaker 6: twin that he called that brute in one of his letters.
Speaker 10: So how does their relationship proceed and the divorce from
Speaker 10: Leslie proceed.
Speaker 6: Well? After Gladys gets back to Idaho with the doctor,
Speaker 6: when he picks her up, she's really really done a
Speaker 6: number with these drugs and she's groggy. She can't function
Speaker 6: very well. He's extremely alarmed. He takes her, spent a
Speaker 6: couple of nights in the hotel to kind of help
Speaker 6: dry her out a little bit, and then takes her
Speaker 6: back to Idaho, where he enlists the aid of another
Speaker 6: general practice doctor who's familiar with these drugs, and they
Speaker 6: do get her back on her feet to where she's
Speaker 6: functioning much more normally, and then they go to Jordan Valley.
Speaker 6: It's haying time. Jordan Valley, by the way, is the
Speaker 6: very small town in Idaho where the ranch has. Today
Speaker 6: it has one hundred and seventy five residents. In those days,
Speaker 6: it might have been a little bit bigger, but it
Speaker 6: wasn't very big. But they had all this acreage outside
Speaker 6: of town there, and so they're doing really well. However, lastly,
Speaker 6: of course, now that he's discovered his wife has committed bigamy,
Speaker 6: he's suing her for divorce and the sheriff in Idaho
Speaker 6: is given papers to serve on Gladys divorce papers from Leslie,
Speaker 6: and the sheriff doesn't find her because she's in Oregon
Speaker 6: at this time at the ranch. But when she learns
Speaker 6: the sheriff has been looking for her, she realizes she'd
Speaker 6: better get back to California and settle this divorce issue
Speaker 6: with Leslie before everything really goes crazy. And the doctor
Speaker 6: learns everything that will spoil all of her plans. So
Speaker 6: she needs to get back there and settle this divorce.
Speaker 10: And how does she arrange to be able to do
Speaker 10: that and cover her true intentions.
Speaker 6: Well, so there's a problem here, Dan Gladys doesn't drive. Now.
Speaker 6: I don't know if she doesn't drive because of her
Speaker 6: drug addiction or if she just never learned how to drive.
Speaker 6: Especially in the forties, thirties and forties, a lot of
Speaker 6: women didn't drive, or some women didn't drive. Might be
Speaker 6: she never learned, but for one of the reasons she
Speaker 6: doesn't drive. I need someone to drive her down there.
Speaker 6: The doctor says, well, I don't have time to take
Speaker 6: you down there. I mean I could be gone two
Speaker 6: or three days, but we're getting indoor haying season now
Speaker 6: and I've got to be here. And she says, well,
Speaker 6: it'll take a week ten days. The doctor says, I
Speaker 6: can't be gone that long. Well, she says, I need
Speaker 6: someone to drive me. How about Jack Gallagher? Well, Jack Gallagher,
Speaker 6: who's no relation of mine but has the same last name.
Speaker 6: He was a ranch hand, but he was about the
Speaker 6: same age as Gladys, And the doctor wasn't too keen
Speaker 6: on that idea. He didn't think that having his wife
Speaker 6: go down there with this hired hand for a week
Speaker 6: or two would look good and probably wouldn't go well.
Speaker 6: So he nicks that idea, so they looked at several
Speaker 6: other options and they finally settled on a young cowboy
Speaker 6: in Alvin Williams, who was an occasional ranchand for the doctor,
Speaker 6: he was only twenty three years old. He was just
Speaker 6: a boy, really, not a lot of experience in life,
Speaker 6: and his goal in life is to be a cowboy.
Speaker 6: That's what he wanted to do. And the doctor decided
Speaker 6: that he didn't think it would be a problem if
Speaker 6: Alvin would be willing to be her chauffeur, so he
Speaker 6: asked Alvin if he would drive Gladys down to California
Speaker 6: so she could take care of her business. Now. Of course,
Speaker 6: she couldn't tell the doctor that the reason she was
Speaker 6: going was because of this divorce, so she told him
Speaker 6: that the reason she had to go was to settle
Speaker 6: legal matters for this three million dollar of state that
Speaker 6: was pending coming from her aunt Mary.
Speaker 10: Right, they left August fifth, nineteen forty six, and they
Speaker 10: arrived in Reno, and immediately upon arriving they went to
Speaker 10: dinner and a movie. Because, as you're write, we didn't
Speaker 10: mention this, Gladys loves the movies and she was affected
Speaker 10: greatly by a couple movies, and we'll talk about that
Speaker 10: a little bit later. But she had her favorite movie stars,
Speaker 10: Ingrid Bergman and Betty Davis, and she loved the movies.
Speaker 10: So they're there in Reno and they go to a
Speaker 10: movie and the dinner and she suggests what in terms
Speaker 10: of living accommodations, Well, she.
Speaker 6: Says, well, Alvin, pretty late, we don't really need to
Speaker 6: check in the hotel. Let's just drive out in the
Speaker 6: country on nawskirts of town there and find a place
Speaker 6: to park, and we'll just sleep in doctor's car. They've
Speaker 6: got the doctor's car. It's a very nice, modern, big
Speaker 6: car and very comfortable. So Alvin says, oh, that'd be
Speaker 6: all right, And so they pull out into the country
Speaker 6: and find a secluded spot and hunk her down for
Speaker 6: the night. But it doesn't take long until Gladys starts
Speaker 6: seducing this young cowboy. She tells him, man, you look
Speaker 6: so much like my little brother that I just can't
Speaker 6: get over how much you look like my little brother, buddy.
Speaker 6: And she says, can I give you a little brotherly kiss?
Speaker 6: And he says okay, and so she kisses him on
Speaker 6: the cheek, and then she kisses him on the lips,
Speaker 6: and from that time on the whole rest of the
Speaker 6: trip they sleep together.
Speaker 10: It's interesting. The next day they drive to Trucky, California,
Speaker 10: where Gladys's brother Sterling owns a campground, and so he
Speaker 10: signs him a cabin for Alvin and Gladys a tent,
Speaker 10: and she asks Alvin to sleep with her right away.
Speaker 10: This seems to be just one of the events where
Speaker 10: she doesn't really pay it or doesn't really care for
Speaker 10: people if people see which her behavior as evidenced by
Speaker 10: this camp round in front of her brother.
Speaker 6: Yes, well, I don't know if her brother was where
Speaker 6: they were sleeping together. Alvin would come into her tint
Speaker 6: after it got dark, and then he'd get up early
Speaker 6: in the morning and go back to his little cabin.
Speaker 6: But they certainly did everything together, and she sat on
Speaker 6: Alvin's lap, and she was very familiar with him in
Speaker 6: a way that it's quite inappropriate for a married woman
Speaker 6: with another man. So I agree with you completely, Dan,
Speaker 6: She really didn't care what people thought.
Speaker 10: They go to a movie when they're on their trip here,
Speaker 10: the postman always rings twice as you write about it.
Speaker 10: What's this movie about the Well, see.
Speaker 6: It's about it's about a man and his wife who
Speaker 6: own a diner and they hire an employee and the
Speaker 6: wife becomes infatuated with that employee and they have a
Speaker 6: very torrid affair and ultimately they decide to murder her husband,
Speaker 6: the owner of the diner, and which they do. It
Speaker 6: doesn't end well for either one of them, of course,
Speaker 6: But after the movie gets out and Gladys and Alvin
Speaker 6: are driving away, her comment that Alvin was, Gee, it's
Speaker 6: too bad something like that can't happen to the doctor.
Speaker 6: And from that point on Gladys begins persuading Alvin to
Speaker 6: murder her husband.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's fascinating too. Again when we talk about that,
Speaker 10: she does not care what anybody, including her husband thinks.
Speaker 10: They have a visit with her brother Jean, Like I said,
Speaker 10: I think it's sterling or gene as you call them.
Speaker 10: What does she do in terms of taking what does
Speaker 10: she do with the wd's money, her husband's money on
Speaker 10: this trip besides going to movies and dinner. What else
Speaker 10: does she do for her cowboy chauffeur.
Speaker 6: Well, he liked being a cowboy and wanted to dress nicely,
Speaker 6: so she outfitted him with all new western wear with
Speaker 6: boots and leis, of course, not wranglers. Good cowboys don't
Speaker 6: wear wranglers. They wear Levia's and a fancy black shirt
Speaker 6: with white piping on the pockets and the cuffs and
Speaker 6: the edges, and a cowboy hat. She decks amount of
Speaker 6: just five and she's quite enjoying the freedom of having
Speaker 6: the doctor's money that he's sending her and driving the
Speaker 6: doctor's car. The doctor's paying all the expenses for this trip.
Speaker 10: And like you say, this trip is supposed to be
Speaker 10: for ten days or so, but it goes goes on
Speaker 10: much longer. What are the some of the kinds of
Speaker 10: things that they discuss in her persuasion with Alvin to
Speaker 10: commit this murder. What are the kinds of things she
Speaker 10: does to offer ammunition on her behalf? Especially interesting her
Speaker 10: warping of the Ten Commandments.
Speaker 6: That's right, she asked Alvin. You know, Alen to start with,
Speaker 6: Alvin was very reluctant to murder the and he never
Speaker 6: would have done such a thing it had not been
Speaker 6: for her persuasion. I know that. But she has got
Speaker 6: such powerful control over Alvin. She really has him wrapped
Speaker 6: around her finger, and so she uses a number of
Speaker 6: different tactics to persuade him to go with this, and
Speaker 6: one of them is she asks Salvin if he's ever
Speaker 6: read the Bible. Well, no, he admitted he never really
Speaker 6: had done much Bible reading. So she advised him that
Speaker 6: she actually was a minister of the Gospel. I don't
Speaker 6: know if she'd ever done anything that would qualify her
Speaker 6: as a minister of the Gospel, but that was her
Speaker 6: claim to Alvin. And she told him that the ten Commandments,
Speaker 6: if you break any one of the ten commandments, you
Speaker 6: might as well break them all, because once you've broken
Speaker 6: one ten commandment, you're a sinner and you're guilty. And
Speaker 6: so since Alvin was already committing adultery, then committing murder
Speaker 6: wouldn't be any worse because he'd already broken the ten Commandments.
Speaker 6: But that was one of her attempts to persuade him.
Speaker 10: Did she mention anything else and sweeten this sort of
Speaker 10: the deal with any details about abuse?
Speaker 6: She did, and I think of all the things she
Speaker 6: told Alvin, this perhaps may have been the most persuasive.
Speaker 6: She told Alvin that the doctor was cruel to her,
Speaker 6: that he beat her, and that he was just an
Speaker 6: animal and didn't deserve the Lena, And of course none
Speaker 6: of that is true. The doctor never he so infatuated
Speaker 6: with her, he never treated her badly, but Alvin believed her,
Speaker 6: and I do think that was very persuasive for him.
Speaker 10: Now, well, Leslie finds out that Gladys is back in
Speaker 10: Sacramento and where she's staying, so he calls the hotel
Speaker 10: and tries to arrange a meeting with her, and Gladys
Speaker 10: agrees to meet him in the lobby. I thought this
Speaker 10: was amazing. She introduces Alvin, but tell us a little
Speaker 10: bit about this exchange where Alvin is initially there, but
Speaker 10: the exchange between Leslie and Gladys in that hotel.
Speaker 6: Well, Leslie in Gladys met their hotel. She took Alvin
Speaker 6: with her, as you mentioned, but then Leslie said that
Speaker 6: he wanted to talk to her alone and told Alvin
Speaker 6: to get out of there, which Alvin did. He went
Speaker 6: into the bar and had a drink, and Leslie and
Speaker 6: Gladys decided that they would meet with their joint lawyers
Speaker 6: and sign the papers necessary for the divorce to go through.
Speaker 10: Now with that, there wasn't original attention or intention for
Speaker 10: her to go to be able to kind of cover
Speaker 10: her tracks? Was she finished with that mission now that
Speaker 10: she has met with Leslie? Was she free to go back?
Speaker 10: Had she covered her tracks?
Speaker 6: Yes? I think she had. And there's no reason why
Speaker 6: they shouldn't just now head back to Idaho. But they don't.
Speaker 6: And my guess is it's because she's having so much fun,
Speaker 6: and so Alvin and Gladys travel all over California. They
Speaker 6: go down to southern California, they go to Taft, they
Speaker 6: go up to Trucky, they go to Sacramento. They're just
Speaker 6: having a great time and they go to movies, they
Speaker 6: go to dances, they eat in nice restaurants. And this
Speaker 6: ten days to two week trip actually lasted seven weeks.
Speaker 6: They were gone seven weeks on this joy ride.
Speaker 10: How does she explain that? And is there any or
Speaker 10: is there any explanation and correspondence between her and WD
Speaker 10: and what does she how does she account for this
Speaker 10: extra incredible four weeks added to this trip?
Speaker 6: You know, I don't think she accounts for it at all.
Speaker 6: I don't see her ever giving him any good explanations.
Speaker 6: And he's the doctor, is just he's lonely and he's heartsick,
Speaker 6: and he doesn't understand why she's doing this, but he's
Speaker 6: very lonely, and he writes her a lot of letters
Speaker 6: while they're on this trip, and he constantly tells her,
Speaker 6: I don't understand, but I trust you completely. I don't
Speaker 6: understand why you are here. I miss you. I'm just
Speaker 6: so lonely without you, but I trust you completely. I
Speaker 6: know you're doing the right thing. So the Doctor's response
Speaker 6: to me is very perplexing, and and I don't think
Speaker 6: she ever really gives him a good explanation for why
Speaker 6: she's gone so long.
Speaker 10: She even tells him how much how nice Album has
Speaker 10: been treating her has been during the trip, and then
Speaker 10: she proposes to take for him to take a bus
Speaker 10: and meet them, and that they would return together, her
Speaker 10: and WD and and also she spoke of some kind
Speaker 10: of present that she had gotten for him.
Speaker 6: So what could this, you know, I just don't know.
Speaker 6: I mean, she tells him repeatedly, I've got a present
Speaker 6: for you, something really special, But I never see the
Speaker 6: present produced. I don't see that she ever really did
Speaker 6: give him a present. And as you said, she does
Speaker 6: invite him down to Trucky to spend the holidays down
Speaker 6: there with him, and so he comes down and they
Speaker 6: go to a rodeo and Alvin competes in the rodeo
Speaker 6: he gets he wins first buie for bear Brock riding,
Speaker 6: and they spend time there and then he takes the
Speaker 6: bus home. You know, I don't understand that, because she said,
Speaker 6: come down on the bus and we'll go home together.
Speaker 6: But something happened while they were there that persuaded him
Speaker 6: to go back alone without his wife. He does have
Speaker 6: a meeting with Alvin, and he talked to Alvin and
Speaker 6: pays him off and says, you know, as soon as
Speaker 6: this is over, I want you to be gone. But
Speaker 6: he does not get his wife to go back with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Now, what happened September seventeenth, nineteen forty six with Gladys.
Speaker 6: Coach me Dan what they drove?
Speaker 10: They drove to Reno.
Speaker 6: Oh yes, Well, in the midst of all this, after
Speaker 6: the doctor returns Diadaho, Gladys and Alvin go to Reno
Speaker 6: and they get married. So now Alvis is committed trigging me,
Speaker 6: which I had to look it up to see if
Speaker 6: it is a real word. And it is a real word.
Speaker 6: She was married to three men at the same time,
Speaker 6: to Leslie, to doctor Broadhurst and to Alvin, she used
Speaker 6: a false name. She didn't use her real married name
Speaker 6: to use the name Elaine Hamilton. Alvin used his real
Speaker 6: name and they were married there in Reno.
Speaker 10: They decide to head back, but she decides to visit
Speaker 10: her attorney D. D. Decot. Why would she do that?
Speaker 10: What was the purpose of that?
Speaker 6: I think the reason for visiting with her attorney was
Speaker 6: to finalize the divorce matters that they had going on there,
Speaker 6: and just to make sure that he was available for
Speaker 6: anything she needed down there in California. So when she
Speaker 6: was back in Iahoa, Oregon, if anything came up, the
Speaker 6: attorney would be on the case and be available to
Speaker 6: take care of it.
Speaker 10: Now Gladys and Alvin are discussing murder. Now one of
Speaker 10: their ideas involved Wd's cattle ranch. What was the idea
Speaker 10: that they were formulating regarding cattle and murder?
Speaker 6: Well, let us and Alvin. They talked about a variety
Speaker 6: of different ways of murdering the doctor. Once she's finally
Speaker 6: gotten persuaded to do it. Now they're trying to come
Speaker 6: up with, you know, the method, and she says, well,
Speaker 6: maybe while he's out riding, you can you can find
Speaker 6: him and kill him, but that doesn't seem to work
Speaker 6: too well because they don't know how well how successful
Speaker 6: they would be in that, and how they would dispose
Speaker 6: of the body and everything. So then they come up
Speaker 6: with a plan of the doctor every fall goes on
Speaker 6: a hunting trip, usually a two week hell hunting trip
Speaker 6: with a group of buddies. That's kind of an annual tradition.
Speaker 6: And so she says, well, maybe you can find your
Speaker 6: way up to where the hunting party is and kill
Speaker 6: the doctor. But that one doesn't seem to work too
Speaker 6: well because Alvin doesn't even really know where that was
Speaker 6: b And so they finally settle on a plan that
Speaker 6: after they get back to Idaho, when the Doctor advises
Speaker 6: that he'll be leaving the next day to go to
Speaker 6: the Oregon Ranch, that Alvin would leave ahead of him
Speaker 6: and park on the side of the road and pretend
Speaker 6: that his car was disabled and lure the doctor to
Speaker 6: pull over, and while they're out there in the middle
Speaker 6: of nowhere, in the middle of sagebrush country, that Alvin
Speaker 6: would do the doctor in So that was their plan
Speaker 6: that they settled on right.
Speaker 10: When they returned back from their trip. And you mentioned
Speaker 10: that WD has a conversation with Alvin and says, you
Speaker 10: know what you've done this and now here's your money
Speaker 10: and I want you gone. But what is the behavior
Speaker 10: Queen Gladys and Alvin even in the home of WD
Speaker 10: after they return, And we need to explain that their
Speaker 10: living arrangements that they have in JD's home with his
Speaker 10: nephew Floyd and his wife Lola, which is important.
Speaker 6: That's right. The doctor has a nice house outside of
Speaker 6: Calwell where the one and sixty acre dairy farm is,
Speaker 6: and he's got a nephew named Floyd, who's also a
Speaker 6: chiro factor that has moved there and is going to
Speaker 6: take over the doctor's medical practice. And so even before
Speaker 6: the doctor Mary Gladys, they were living together, the doctor
Speaker 6: and his nephew and the nephew's family. So when they
Speaker 6: get back on this long trip, whenever the doctor's there,
Speaker 6: Alvin kind of stays away or stays quiet in the background.
Speaker 6: At the very least, though, when the doctor's away from home,
Speaker 6: they just show no shame, you know. Lola observes Gladys
Speaker 6: sitting on Alvin's lap. She observes him when they think
Speaker 6: she's not looking to hug and kiss, and so she
Speaker 6: is putting loa to the nephew's wife is very disturbed
Speaker 6: by all that she sees, but she doesn't know how
Speaker 6: to react to it. You know, what do you do?
Speaker 6: She and her husband talked about it a lot, but
Speaker 6: they didn't think that Maybe maybe they just weren't sure
Speaker 6: if it was the right thing to make a big
Speaker 6: deal of it to the doctor because the doctor was
Speaker 6: so obviously happy with his new wife, and so they
Speaker 6: really didn't say much.
Speaker 10: Yeah, just before the doctor and nephew have plans to
Speaker 10: leave that Friday on their elk hunting trip normally would
Speaker 10: be two weeks on the Tuesday. What does Gladys say
Speaker 10: to w D when she's on the grounds that she's
Speaker 10: concerned for him? What does she say to him?
Speaker 6: Remarkably well, she says doctor, She says, you know, you
Speaker 6: need to have a will if if something happens to
Speaker 6: you on this hunting trip, I would be I wouldn't
Speaker 6: have enough money to even bury you. Of course, you know,
Speaker 6: at this point, I'm wondering what happened to the three
Speaker 6: million dollars, But that doesn't shut up in this discussion,
Speaker 6: and so she says, you need to get a will
Speaker 6: before you leave, and the doctor says, well, there's nothing
Speaker 6: going to happen to me, but she is really adamant,
Speaker 6: and she's really upset and makes a big deal of it.
Speaker 6: So the doctor goes into town, hires a lawyer, goes
Speaker 6: to his lawyer, and draws up a new will that
Speaker 6: cuts out every other relative he has and leaves everything
Speaker 6: he owns owns to Gladys.
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Speaker 6: So he does that before he leaves the hunting trip.
Speaker 10: Incredible. Alvin calls and invites Gladys and JD to a movie.
Speaker 10: Does he go? Does he go to the movie that night?
Speaker 6: He did, but he really did not want to. He
Speaker 6: was he was not fond of Alvin calling and sitting
Speaker 6: up events with his wife. But Gladys says, well, if
Speaker 6: you don't go, I'm going without here, and he didn't
Speaker 6: want to have his wife going with Alvin without him,
Speaker 6: so he went and they went to a movie and
Speaker 6: he also went to a dance. But he was very
Speaker 6: disturbed by this and just confused by what's going on.
Speaker 10: So he got a late start the next day. But
Speaker 10: when does Alvin arrive at the home.
Speaker 6: Well, Alan called on the phone and they're glad. He says, well, no,
Speaker 6: they haven't left yet, but you can come later this afternoon.
Speaker 6: So after the hunting party departs, Alvin shows up and
Speaker 6: Gladas says that he's sick and she needs to tend
Speaker 6: to him. So she puts Alvin in the doctor's bed
Speaker 6: and gives him a sponge bath, and all the while Lola,
Speaker 6: the nephew's wife the nephew went on the hunting trip. Also,
Speaker 6: Lola is just appalled by what she's observing here. She
Speaker 6: just can't believe the Gladys is treating her beloved uncle
Speaker 6: in such a fashion.
Speaker 10: It's interesting Lola to actually becomes friends with this woman
Speaker 10: and doesn't say anything to her brother, but she doesn't
Speaker 10: trust this woman. At the same time, it's very interesting
Speaker 10: what does let us tell her about again this big
Speaker 10: love of movies? What movie do they discuss and what
Speaker 10: does she say about her ability to take the life
Speaker 10: of someone else.
Speaker 6: Well, she talked about a movie where a woman had
Speaker 6: killed killed her child, I think it was. And a
Speaker 6: question to Lola was do you think you could ever
Speaker 6: kill somebody, And Lola was quite appalled by the question,
Speaker 6: and she said, of course not, I can never do
Speaker 6: such a thing. But it gave a little insight into
Speaker 6: the thinking of Gladys. She clearly murder was on her mind. Yeah.
Speaker 6: She also asked Lola another very interesting question about men
Speaker 6: and husbands, and Lola responded how much she loved her
Speaker 6: husband and I'm glad it said. I hate men and
Speaker 6: I hate sex, and I don't know why I ever
Speaker 6: got married again. Well, and yet that doesn't seem to
Speaker 6: apply to Alan. That's what I find most curious.
Speaker 10: Yeah. Now, back with the plan, Gladys thinks that they
Speaker 10: need a vehicle. They don't want to use Wd's car. Amazingly,
Speaker 10: they realize that it's not such a great idea, but
Speaker 10: she needs to buy him a car. And so what
Speaker 10: else besides what do they do in terms of going
Speaker 10: to get this car and this plan? And what else
Speaker 10: does he do when he goes back, what does he
Speaker 10: retrieve from his home, his parents home in Parma as
Speaker 10: part of this plan.
Speaker 6: Well, they hunt around, they go to Boissee, and they
Speaker 6: look for cars, and ultimately they find a young man
Speaker 6: that's got an old model t forward for sale, and
Speaker 6: they buy that. Included in that as some tools in
Speaker 6: the trunk, including a big, heavy crescent ranch, which comes
Speaker 6: into play later on. But then they also drive out
Speaker 6: to Alvin's parents' home in another little town nearby called Parma,
Speaker 6: and Alvin goes in and he retrieves a bed roll,
Speaker 6: and he also gets a shotgun from the house, and
Speaker 6: they then take those and go back back to Wd's ranch.
Speaker 10: Right, You write that during this two week period, Lola, Gladys,
Speaker 10: and Alvin would go to the movies, they go for drinks,
Speaker 10: they go out for dinner, they went to dances, and
Speaker 10: she would observe them cavorting with each other at these clubs,
Speaker 10: wouldn't Lola at that time?
Speaker 6: That's right? And she later testified that her reason for
Speaker 6: doing that was twofold number one. The doctor had specifically
Speaker 6: asked her to make friends with Gladys in his attempt
Speaker 6: to make Gladys feel welcome, So she was kind of
Speaker 6: following through with the doctor's wishes with that, But she
Speaker 6: also had her own motive, which was she really wanted
Speaker 6: to see what was going on between these two. She
Speaker 6: wanted to understand as full as she could what the
Speaker 6: relationship between Gladys and Alvin was right.
Speaker 10: You talk about the divorce decreed finally finalized October one,
Speaker 10: nineteen forty seven, between her and Leslie Lincoln, and then
Speaker 10: she was still talking about convincing Alvin, and now she
Speaker 10: was talking about buying him some whiskey to calm his
Speaker 10: nerves during this and also that when they returned, when
Speaker 10: the hunter's return October eleventh, again, it was very interesting
Speaker 10: that he refused to sleep because of.
Speaker 6: What well, because there was the sheets weren't clean, it
Speaker 6: was soiled. Alvin had been sleeping in his bed and
Speaker 6: some other somehow or other he knew that or perceived it,
Speaker 6: and and he was just he was disturbed, I think,
Speaker 6: to even see that Alvin was still hanging around, and
Speaker 6: so he refused to sleep with his wife that night. Wow.
Speaker 10: So how what? How do they continue with their plans?
Speaker 10: What things did they settle on in terms of how
Speaker 10: they're going to do this deed and when and some
Speaker 10: of the particulars.
Speaker 6: Well, as we've mentioned, they did decide that the plan
Speaker 6: would be for Alvin to waylay the doctor en route
Speaker 6: between Caldwell, Idaho and the Jordan Valley ranch, and he
Speaker 6: was murdered the doctor at that time. The plan was
Speaker 6: he would pretend his car was broken down and when
Speaker 6: the doctor would stop to give him aid that he
Speaker 6: would kill the doctor at that time, but again, as
Speaker 6: you mentioned, Alvin was still I mean, he was on board,
Speaker 6: but he was still really reluctant and nervous about this.
Speaker 6: So glad I asked him if he thought that if
Speaker 6: he had some whiskey to drink, if that would help him,
Speaker 6: and he said he thought it might. So she had
Speaker 6: to go buy a liquor license. In those days, he
Speaker 6: had to had to have a liquor license in order
Speaker 6: to buy alcohol, and of course they had state run
Speaker 6: liquor stores in those days. And she bought a couple
Speaker 6: bottles of whiskey for Alvin and he used those to
Speaker 6: steal his nerves while I was waiting for the doctor.
Speaker 10: M Now the plan goes awride just because WD doesn't
Speaker 10: go directly where he's supposed to go visits a friend,
Speaker 10: so it's a detour. And meanwhile Alvin is waiting on
Speaker 10: the side of the road before eight am.
Speaker 6: So tell us what Alvin gets there in the middle
Speaker 6: of the night.
Speaker 10: Yeah, So what does JD do in terms of the
Speaker 10: delaying these murderous plans for Alvin and Gladys and what
Speaker 10: happens on the side of the road in terms of
Speaker 10: people or a person seeing Alvin on the side of
Speaker 10: the road.
Speaker 6: And the doctor announced on Sunday evening, I'm going to
Speaker 6: the other ranch tomorrow. So Gladys tells Alvin get out
Speaker 6: there and get it done, and for God's sake, if
Speaker 6: you don't succeed, don't come back. So Alvis gets out
Speaker 6: there in the middle of the night and has his
Speaker 6: bedroll and he kind of sleeps in the car waiting
Speaker 6: for the doctor to get there. But Monday morning, the
Speaker 6: doctor he's not very cooperative here. He putters around and
Speaker 6: takes care of him bunch of errands and finally heads
Speaker 6: out late Monday morning. Then he only drives to the
Speaker 6: next town and he goes into a restaurant and he
Speaker 6: orders breakfast, and there he meets with a man that's
Speaker 6: going to help him do some work on the ranch,
Speaker 6: and they have a nice meal together and visit and talk,
Speaker 6: and so it's mid afternoon before the doctor gets going
Speaker 6: and heads for the ranch. Meanwhile, Alvin's sitting on the
Speaker 6: side of the road waiting. There's a farmer who's a
Speaker 6: neighbor of the doctors who He and one of his
Speaker 6: employees go from that farmer's ranch out to some fields
Speaker 6: to do some work, and they pass Alvin and then
Speaker 6: they come back for lunch to go. They come home
Speaker 6: for lunch and they still see Alvin sitting there. The
Speaker 6: farmer leaves and takes care of business, but the employee
Speaker 6: goes back to the field and sees Alvin for the
Speaker 6: third time in that time. He stopped. He said, have
Speaker 6: you got a problem? Can I help you with anything?
Speaker 6: And Alvin says no, It says, I got somebody coming
Speaker 6: to help me. I got my car's broken down. So
Speaker 6: that ranch hand heads on back to the ranch. So
Speaker 6: Alvin has been seen by at least three local neighbors
Speaker 6: or two notes three times by two local neighbors who
Speaker 6: have who who can identify him. I find it most
Speaker 6: strange that Alvin didn't abandon the plan at that time.
Speaker 6: But he didn't.
Speaker 10: Yeah, And now meanwhile Gladys at home with the observant
Speaker 10: Loyla Lola what is what are the kinds of things
Speaker 10: that she is doing? But also saying to Lola again
Speaker 10: to cover her tracks.
Speaker 6: Well, I think she takes her sleeping drug again. She's
Speaker 6: pretty drugged up, or might just the emotions, but she's
Speaker 6: just mumbling and staying in bed. And she tells Lola
Speaker 6: she's worried about the doctor because because a guy named
Speaker 6: Red Wells had threatened him, and she just isn't sure
Speaker 6: something might happen to the doctor. And it's all very
Speaker 6: strange behavior to Lola. She doesn't understand it at all.
Speaker 6: Gladys is really really emotionally beside herself, and the Gladys.
Speaker 10: Asked Lola to leave the door unlocked so Alvin could
Speaker 10: come over later, doesn't she.
Speaker 6: Yes, she does, and she's waiting for Alvin to come back.
Speaker 10: Yeah, but Lola locks the door though, regardless of what
Speaker 10: she had say, she did and locked the door right, yeah,
Speaker 10: now you write that. At about three point thirty pm,
Speaker 10: the doctor's truck finally comes into view.
Speaker 6: So the doctor's driving his pickup truck and he's pulling
Speaker 6: a horse trailer. He's got his favorite horse wrecks and
Speaker 6: the trailer and he sees Alvin and he almost drives
Speaker 6: by sounds like, but Alvin flags him down and doctor
Speaker 6: pulled over and and he came back and he said,
Speaker 6: what's the matter. Alvin, and Alvin says, well, I think
Speaker 6: my fuel pump's gone out. So the doctor leaned over
Speaker 6: the hood under the hood, leaned under the hood to
Speaker 6: look at the engine, see what he could see. And
Speaker 6: Alvin has this big crescent ranch in his hand that
Speaker 6: was in the trunk of the car when he bought it,
Speaker 6: and he slammed the doctor in the head with that
Speaker 6: crescent wrench and really hit him with a tremendous blow
Speaker 6: and broke his skull in the process. The doctor is
Speaker 6: knocked down, knocked maybe knocked out briefly, but when he
Speaker 6: comes to his senses to a certain extent, he realized
Speaker 6: that Alvin and hit him. But by this time Alvin
Speaker 6: he wants nothing more to do with this, and he
Speaker 6: gives the doctor a shirt to stop the blood that's
Speaker 6: coming from his head, and he wants to leave. But
Speaker 6: the doctor realized Alvin hit him, and the doctor rushed Alvin,
Speaker 6: screaming at him. Alvin then grabbed the shotgun and shot
Speaker 6: and killed the doctor.
Speaker 10: Coming by with a load of bailed Hay.
Speaker 6: What's trying to do, Alvin, here's a truck coming. Of course,
Speaker 6: we're out in deserted area, so you can hear him
Speaker 6: coming for quite a while, but here's a truck coming,
Speaker 6: and he grabs the doctor's body and drags it into
Speaker 6: the barrel pet on the side of the road and
Speaker 6: kind of behind the cars. The truck comes on by
Speaker 6: and passes, at which point Alvin then took the body
Speaker 6: deeper into the sage brush and then hid it. But
Speaker 6: then he had to do something with the doctor's pickup
Speaker 6: and horse trailer. So he got in the pickup truck
Speaker 6: and drove it way out quite a ways out into
Speaker 6: the sage brush and parked it got out, but he
Speaker 6: couldn't bear to leave the horse inside the horse trailer,
Speaker 6: you know, with no food, no water, and unprotected like
Speaker 6: you know, just inside the trailer. So he takes the
Speaker 6: horse out of the trailer and takes it, rode it
Speaker 6: a little ways, and then tied it to a big
Speaker 6: sage brush plant, and then hiked the back to where
Speaker 6: his car was, and he took his car and he
Speaker 6: drove away and waited until dark when he could come
Speaker 6: back and get the body and take it much farther
Speaker 6: afield and dispose of it in a way that nobody
Speaker 6: could find. So that was how Alvin handled all that
Speaker 6: once he was done with all that is now dark
Speaker 6: late at night. He then drives back to Caldwell and
Speaker 6: knocks on Gladys's window because the door's locked, and he
Speaker 6: tells her it's done. And she says, did he dispose
Speaker 6: of the evidence? And he said no, not yet. She said, well,
Speaker 6: go take care of that. So Alvin then left and
Speaker 6: disposed of all the evidence that he had.
Speaker 10: Now October fifteenth, ninety forty six, you say, mal maybe
Speaker 10: I'm mispronouncing. It's Malhur County and you introduced Sheriff Charles
Speaker 10: Glenn of Vale, Oregon.
Speaker 6: This is the.
Speaker 10: Investigation right away. What how does he look at this
Speaker 10: right away? This cher Charles Glen. Does he think there's
Speaker 10: some foul play right away? What's his first impression about
Speaker 10: this case?
Speaker 6: Well, it sounds like he isn't so sure at first,
Speaker 6: but and you're right, you pronounce it right. It's maw
Speaker 6: Here County and he's the sheriff in that county. He
Speaker 6: gets a call from one of the neighbors. And what
Speaker 6: happened is, you know, Alvin had tied Rex the horse
Speaker 6: to a big piece of sage brush, and after the
Speaker 6: horse trumped around that brush for quite a while he
Speaker 6: finally pulled the branch loose that he was tied to
Speaker 6: and he went running. He ran back to the road
Speaker 6: and he was running down the road in the middle
Speaker 6: of the night. This was late in the morning, it
Speaker 6: would be Tuesday morning.
Speaker 1: And u.
Speaker 6: And one of the local ranchers is driving along and
Speaker 6: he sees the horse and he recognizes it. He knows,
Speaker 6: you know that country and those times especially, but even
Speaker 6: today everybody knows their neighbors, and he was familiar with
Speaker 6: the horse. So he pulled over and stopped the horse
Speaker 6: and realized that something was strange about that. So he
Speaker 6: went looking to see where the doctor might have been.
Speaker 6: He thought maybe the doctor had been thrown off the
Speaker 6: horse or something. But he could not find the doctor.
Speaker 6: But he called the sheriff and told him he found
Speaker 6: this horse. Actually, first he called the family. First, he
Speaker 6: called the doctor, brought her family and said he'd found
Speaker 6: the horse, and Gladys Lola answered the phone to call
Speaker 6: Gladys to the phone, and this neighbor told Gladys he
Speaker 6: found the horse, and she said, okay, thanks for telling me,
Speaker 6: and she hung up and she told Lola, well, I
Speaker 6: think something's happened to the doctor. Then she went back
Speaker 6: to bed. The next morning, the neighbor called the sheriff
Speaker 6: and told him about the horse, and all the neighbors
Speaker 6: in the neighborhood joined in searching for the doctor. It
Speaker 6: didn't take him too long to find the pickup and
Speaker 6: the horse trailer, and so they knew something that happened
Speaker 6: to the doctor, but they could not find his body
Speaker 6: despite searching for several days.
Speaker 10: In terms of their theory that maybe he had truck problems.
Speaker 10: When they examined the truck, what was their verdict there?
Speaker 6: They started right up and drove just fine, so it
Speaker 6: wasn't vehicle problems. And by this time the sheriff, the
Speaker 6: law is involved. The sheriff Glynn, got his deputy, and
Speaker 6: he also got the Ontario the state trooper who stationed
Speaker 6: in Ontario, and even the Ontario city policeman, and they
Speaker 6: all went out and joined in the search for the body.
Speaker 10: You talk about that search, and it was extensive and
Speaker 10: many people involved. And eventually what did they find on
Speaker 10: the highway in terms of evidence that indicated something a
Speaker 10: foul had happened.
Speaker 6: Yes, they found some rocks with blood on it, and
Speaker 6: so a couple of the neighbors found that. So they
Speaker 6: drove to Veil to show it to the sheriff. By
Speaker 6: then it's the end of the day pretty much, and
Speaker 6: they took the show it to the sheriff and he said, well,
Speaker 6: it looks like blood to me, but we need to
Speaker 6: get a pathologist to confirm that. And so he tried
Speaker 6: one pathologist who wasn't available, and ultimately they chose a
Speaker 6: pathologist in Boise, Idaho, And these neighbors drove to Boise
Speaker 6: and took these rocks. So a doctor named Joe Beaman.
Speaker 6: By the way, I didn't put it in the book,
Speaker 6: but Joe Beamon was the father of one of my
Speaker 6: college classmates that I went to college with me. They
Speaker 6: took it, took it to Joe Beamon, and he confirmed
Speaker 6: that it was human blood, which point they took that
Speaker 6: back to the sheriff and told him. So now they
Speaker 6: knew that they most likely had a homicide on their hands.
Speaker 10: Now where do they get their first breaks of evidence from?
Speaker 10: I mean, you have everything from They they eventually find
Speaker 10: the model t Ford that Alvin had. But tell us
Speaker 10: how they proceed in finding out information very very quickly
Speaker 10: in this investigation.
Speaker 6: Well, Gladys and Alvin both went to the search scene
Speaker 6: because they felt like they needed the name, need to
Speaker 6: do that, to try and as an alibier to show
Speaker 6: that they were interested. And so they were there at
Speaker 6: the search scene. And you have to hand it to
Speaker 6: the law officers. They observed Gladys, they observed Alvin, They
Speaker 6: observed kind of how they treated each other, which of
Speaker 6: course was much more circumspect at this time. But they
Speaker 6: as they learned more about the family and the relationship
Speaker 6: of the family, they were pretty quick to think that
Speaker 6: Alvin may have had something to do with this, and
Speaker 6: maybe Gladys as well. Of Course, the nephew Floyd and
Speaker 6: his wife Lola, I think, also gave a lot of
Speaker 6: information about their misgivings about Gladys to the sheriff, So
Speaker 6: it didn't it wasn't long before they started paying closer
Speaker 6: attention to Alvin than Gladys and asking them questions and
Speaker 6: talking to them and trying to sess what their opinions
Speaker 6: were of them.
Speaker 10: You right that they Gladys had purchased a Model A,
Speaker 10: a nineteen twenty nine Model A for Alvin. They found
Speaker 10: this vehicle and he admitted it was his vehicle. What
Speaker 10: was the very interesting facts about what they found when
Speaker 10: they found that car.
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's very odd. You know, Alvin Gladys
Speaker 6: told Alvin to get rid of the evidence, and you know,
Speaker 6: anything he had that could have been evidence he threw
Speaker 6: in the river. But he had this car, and so
Speaker 6: he decided what he needed to do is changed the
Speaker 6: color of the car. So he went to the hardware
Speaker 6: store and bought a couple of cans of pain and
Speaker 6: the paint brush, and he he brushed painted this car
Speaker 6: and changed his color, which you know, I mean that
Speaker 6: seems almost called to me that anyone would think that
Speaker 6: would really help make a difference, especially because by the
Speaker 6: time the sheriff found the car, the paint was still sticky.
Speaker 6: They hadn't even finished drying yet.
Speaker 10: He did a couple other things. He changed this tire
Speaker 10: size from sixteen to twenty one inch. I don't know
Speaker 10: how much that much difference for the physical appearance. But
Speaker 10: and then there was a turtleback that was missing. But
Speaker 10: other than that, it was they had an easy time
Speaker 10: identifying his vehicle, like you say, when when it's black paint.
Speaker 10: Oh yes, and the paint was found in the car
Speaker 10: as well, wasn't it. And the paint life.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he left the can in the brush in the car. Yeah.
Speaker 10: So so how do they play this, like like you
Speaker 10: say this, this Sheriff Glenn and the Ontario Oregon State Police,
Speaker 10: they play this very cautiously. They're not rushing in with this.
Speaker 10: They are observing. So once they know that looks like
Speaker 10: Alvin is involved with this, then how do they deal
Speaker 10: with Gladys.
Speaker 6: Well, Gladas says she needs Alvin to drive her out
Speaker 6: to the ranch, and the sheriff says, well, he can't
Speaker 6: go with you. We're talking to him now, but you
Speaker 6: know this police officer, he'll be glad to give you
Speaker 6: a ride. So a policeman drives her out to the ranch.
Speaker 6: This is the Jordan Valley Ranch, so she can take
Speaker 6: care of some things there. They basically separate Gladys and
Speaker 6: Alvin from this point on so that they cannot confer,
Speaker 6: They cannot ask each other questions or give each other
Speaker 6: any more information, so they keep them separate. They take
Speaker 6: Alvin and they put him in the jail, and then
Speaker 6: they do a lengthy interrogation of Alvin. You know, he's
Speaker 6: a young kid, he's twenty three years old. He's scared
Speaker 6: to death, he's not a career criminal, he has no
Speaker 6: experience dealing with police, and it takes a lot of hours,
Speaker 6: but only hours before they break him down.
Speaker 10: Now, they don't reveal that information to her and then
Speaker 10: play it heavy with her. So there's a very interesting
Speaker 10: incident where they're both in the same place, risking for
Speaker 10: the police that they could see each other. Tell us
Speaker 10: about this sad situation that's very interesting.
Speaker 6: Well, Gladdie is concocting one alibi after another, and she
Speaker 6: comes up with a letter that basically says, if you
Speaker 6: don't give me what I want, the same thing that's
Speaker 6: going to happen to you that happened to the doctor.
Speaker 6: And she take that to her attorney and say, look,
Speaker 6: this letter was slipped under my door and I'm scared
Speaker 6: to death. So she and her attorney go to Vail
Speaker 6: and go to the Sheriff's office to show him this letter. Meanwhile,
Speaker 6: right the Sheriff's office is in the same building as
Speaker 6: the courthouse, and right there they're currently getting interrogating Alvin
Speaker 6: and getting his statement in the same building. So they
Speaker 6: tell Gladys to wait. Gladys and her attorney wait in
Speaker 6: some chairs in the foyer. They take Alvin out the
Speaker 6: side door and get him back to the jail, and
Speaker 6: then they bring Gladys into the same room where they've
Speaker 6: been interrogating Alvin. Or she tells them about this letter.
Speaker 10: Yeah, and in that interrogation. Amazingly, we spoke about this
Speaker 10: before the interview. Despite you would think that the police
Speaker 10: would have the power to determine lies from truth better
Speaker 10: than anyone else, because she's told a lot of do
Speaker 10: doozies with other people. What does she tell sheriff Glenn
Speaker 10: and these officials remarkably.
Speaker 6: And regarding what Dan well, just.
Speaker 10: The inheritance and the evil Yes, and.
Speaker 6: She sticks to her story. You're right. She tells the
Speaker 6: sheriff about the evil twin, you know, about the three
Speaker 6: million dollar inheritance, the evil twin who's trying to assume
Speaker 6: her husband's identity. She tries to throw suspicion for the
Speaker 6: murder of the doctor onto the evil twin and claims
Speaker 6: that that was him that left the note. And she
Speaker 6: sticks to all of her stories, which I find fascinating
Speaker 6: because it's very easy for the law officers to check
Speaker 6: up on the truthfulness of those stories. But she sticks
Speaker 6: to him.
Speaker 10: Let's go back just a little bit, because I think
Speaker 10: very important thing we didn't mention, I think is that
Speaker 10: when she was allowed to go back. Oh maybe no, No,
Speaker 10: pardon me, I'm I'm rushing ahead. Let's talk about the
Speaker 10: interrogation that finally gets her to not to admit, but
Speaker 10: finally leads to her arrest.
Speaker 6: The interrogation of Alvin.
Speaker 10: You mean, well, Alvin he is arrested, But what how
Speaker 10: do they finally he is arrested before Gladys is So,
Speaker 10: what what does it take for that event where Gladys
Speaker 10: is finally arrested for murder?
Speaker 6: Well, I think I fail to mention that when Gladys
Speaker 6: and her attorney went to Veil with this note, they
Speaker 6: actually first went to the sheriff in Calwell, Idaho, and
Speaker 6: the sheriff took them and went to Vail to show
Speaker 6: this letter to the Malgia County officers. And so when
Speaker 6: they returned, the sheriff interrogated Gladys, asked her some questions,
Speaker 6: took her to her home, and then ultimately arrested her
Speaker 6: there in Calwell, Idaho. So she is put in jail
Speaker 6: in Idaho. And one of the things I find perplexing
Speaker 6: about this is why they didn't arrest Gladys when they
Speaker 6: had her there in Vail, when she was in Oregon.
Speaker 6: Why didn't they just arrest her then? They must not
Speaker 6: have felt like they had quite all the evidence nailed down.
Speaker 6: Be my only guests, because once he's arrested in Idaho,
Speaker 6: now they have to extradude her from Idaho to Oregon.
Speaker 6: And so that's just that extual layer of work on
Speaker 6: her part.
Speaker 10: Yeah, and she doesn't want to cooperate in that regard.
Speaker 10: I know this might be out of context, but let's
Speaker 10: talk about when she goes with she's allowed to go
Speaker 10: to the home and gather some things from her bedroom,
Speaker 10: and she's allowed to go into that bedroom by herself.
Speaker 10: Tell us about this event, why it was allowed, and
Speaker 10: what does she do when she gets to that house
Speaker 10: and the result what she took from that home.
Speaker 6: Well, after she'd been in jail in Idaho for a
Speaker 6: few days and she didn't wave extradition, which meant that
Speaker 6: the state of Oregon had to go through the formal process,
Speaker 6: which takes quite a bit of time, has to be
Speaker 6: approved by the governor of Idaho. So she's sitting in
Speaker 6: jail in Idaho and she tells the sheriff. She says,
Speaker 6: you know, I need to go back to the ranch
Speaker 6: and get some fresh clothes. I can't just wear these
Speaker 6: same clothes all the time. And and I find it,
Speaker 6: I find it amazing that the sheriff agreed. And so
Speaker 6: the sheriff and his deputy and Gladys and her attorney
Speaker 6: get in the car drive from the jail out to
Speaker 6: her Idaho farm. And then the law officers and the
Speaker 6: attorney sit in the living room and visit while Gladys
Speaker 6: goes into her bedroom and closes the door. And so
Speaker 6: while she's in there, she does a couple of things.
Speaker 6: Number One, she destroys a bunch of letters and stuffs
Speaker 6: them down the heat register, and then she takes another bunch.
Speaker 6: She's got a whole stack of letters. And there's a
Speaker 6: pasteboard box, a cardboard box, kind of a rectangular box
Speaker 6: that's decorated with points set of flowers, and she stuffs
Speaker 6: all these letters into this box and close. Then she
Speaker 6: comes out of the room carrying a little suitcase with
Speaker 6: some clothing in it, and this points at a box,
Speaker 6: and the sheriff says to her, well, I don't know
Speaker 6: what's in that box, but if you take that back
Speaker 6: to the jail, that subject being seized by us. So
Speaker 6: she turns to her attorney, and at this point her
Speaker 6: attorney is an Idaho attorney, and she turns to him
Speaker 6: and she says, here, you take this, and she hands
Speaker 6: that box to him. They return to the jail and
Speaker 6: she goes in there with her fresh clothes, but the
Speaker 6: attorney leaves and takes that box with him.
Speaker 10: Incredible. Now, this story, in this case captivates the imagination
Speaker 10: of people not only in the area, but in the
Speaker 10: state and nationwide. This is a sensational story. She needs
Speaker 10: a defense lawyer, and you mentioned that she just handed
Speaker 10: her lawyer. I think his name is Groom. With that point,
Speaker 10: set a box. Now, your connection to this story, as
Speaker 10: we just alluded to in the beginning, is that your
Speaker 10: grandfather was Goddess's lead defense attorney, and your father was
Speaker 10: also an attorney in partnership with your grandfather. But I say,
Speaker 10: tell us a little bit about this incredible connection you
Speaker 10: have to this case.
Speaker 6: Well, of course, one of the big things that the
Speaker 6: law ofsers have to do is they have to determine
Speaker 6: exactly where the murder occurred, because it happened very close
Speaker 6: to the border between Idaho and Oregon. And so once
Speaker 6: they finally placed the actual side of the murder, it
Speaker 6: turns out it's in Oregon. And so now the trial,
Speaker 6: if She's going to be put on trial, and if
Speaker 6: Alvin's going to be put on trial, well it has
Speaker 6: to happen in Vale, Oregon, which is the county seat
Speaker 6: of Malhere County. So she's got her California attorney, Dacot,
Speaker 6: that's helped her with her with her marriage issues. She's
Speaker 6: got her Idaho attorney Groom, but she needs an Oregon attorney,
Speaker 6: and so she hired my grandfather. And I grew up
Speaker 6: living right next door to my grandparents. My dad and
Speaker 6: my grandfather were partners in their law office, and our
Speaker 6: house was right next door to theirs. My dad, at
Speaker 6: the time of this trial, had been elected to the
Speaker 6: House of Representatives in Oregon, so he was in session
Speaker 6: and he was not available for the trial, but my
Speaker 6: grandfather was, and so they hired my grandfather. His name
Speaker 6: was also Patrick Gallagher, Patrick Jay Gallagher, and he went
Speaker 6: by PJ. And so my granddad was her lead defense attorney,
Speaker 6: and he had the assistance of the California lawyer Deco
Speaker 6: and the Idaho lawyer Groom, and he also hired another
Speaker 6: Idaho attorney named William Languisi, who they had a close relationship.
Speaker 6: So there were four attorneys on the team, but my
Speaker 6: grandfather was the lead attorney.
Speaker 10: Like I say, it was a sensational trial, and it
Speaker 10: was a vigorous defense. Many motions were trotted out but
Speaker 10: were defeated. It didn't take long for the jury to
Speaker 10: make its decision. And at California it was a death
Speaker 10: penalty case. What was the result? What was the result
Speaker 10: of that trial?
Speaker 6: Well, I found I have the entire trial transcript, which
Speaker 6: took quite a bit of work for me to find,
Speaker 6: but I got him and I was very fascinated to
Speaker 6: read the entire trial. My grandfather never called a single witness.
Speaker 6: He interrogated, he cross examined a lot of the state's witnesses,
Speaker 6: and he made a lot of emotions. And you know,
Speaker 6: I think one of the interesting things in the book
Speaker 6: is when you read it, judge, how granddad did, you know,
Speaker 6: did he make the right choice to not call any witnesses?
Speaker 6: And if he had wanted to, who would he have
Speaker 6: called and what would they have said? You know? But
Speaker 6: I think that his plan, his method of defense was
Speaker 6: to try and discredit the witnesses with the state put forth. However,
Speaker 6: he was overruled in all those attempts. So she was convicted.
Speaker 6: And in Oregon, as you mentioned at this time, first
Speaker 6: degree murder, which is what she was convicted of, carried
Speaker 6: an automatic penalty of death by lethal injection the gas chamber,
Speaker 6: I mean death by the gas chamber. However, the jury
Speaker 6: did have the option of requesting life instead of execution,
Speaker 6: and for women, up to this point they had never
Speaker 6: executed a woman, and so all juries seem to favor
Speaker 6: life for women. And that's what this jury did, is
Speaker 6: they elected to convict her with a request for life
Speaker 6: in prison.
Speaker 10: And you say they were paroled. One was nine. She
Speaker 10: was paroled after nine years, and he was paroled after
Speaker 10: ten years. And she was only fifty years old when
Speaker 10: she was released, I believe. Interestingly, you write near the
Speaker 10: end of this you write that she wrote someone from
Speaker 10: the past in nineteen sixty one and a letter similar
Speaker 10: to the one she wrote to doctor Broadhurst back in
Speaker 10: the day. Who was this person that she wrote and
Speaker 10: eventually married.
Speaker 6: Well, that was our friend Leo that we talked about earlier,
Speaker 6: you know, and again, this is why I really believe
Speaker 6: that she knew Leo back when she was married to
Speaker 6: Leslie back in Sacramento. She contacted Leo and ultimately married
Speaker 6: him and they moved to Sacramento. She remained married to
Speaker 6: Leo the rest of her life and died while they
Speaker 6: were still married in Sacramento. Yeah.
Speaker 10: Interesting the point set of box. You write about this
Speaker 10: and not at the beginning of the book. Interestingly, and
Speaker 10: I know the reader will know why. But this point
Speaker 10: set a box and your inheritance tell us about this.
Speaker 6: Well, my father died in nineteen eighty that's forty years
Speaker 6: ago now. When he died, I inherited a family trunk
Speaker 6: that he had inherited from his parents, and it was
Speaker 6: kind of a half steamer trunk, was about half the
Speaker 6: length of a normal steamer trunk, and it was full
Speaker 6: of family family memorabilia. There were photos of my dad
Speaker 6: and his siblings when they were kids, a lot of
Speaker 6: family letters. My grandfather spent time back in Washington, d c.
Speaker 6: As a lobbyist, and while he was gone, he wrote
Speaker 6: a lot of letters to the family and they were
Speaker 6: all kept in there, and letters from other family members.
Speaker 6: But buried in the very bottom of that trunk was
Speaker 6: this pasteboard box decorated with points out of flowers, and
Speaker 6: that was the same box the Gladys had turned to
Speaker 6: her attorney and handed you know now seventy three years ago,
Speaker 6: and that box has been buried ever since then.
Speaker 10: And you provide information that has never been seen as
Speaker 10: you're right, for seventy years.
Speaker 6: That's right, that drive that at all, nobody's seen this stuff,
Speaker 6: and that becomes the backbone of my book.
Speaker 10: Fascinating.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 10: What was the overall take again when we look at
Speaker 10: this as a sensational trial, was there any sympathy for
Speaker 10: Alvin at all in his depiction? And how is Gladys
Speaker 10: portrayed at that time?
Speaker 6: Well, Laddie was the evil one, the embodiment of evil.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 6: I think one of the big challenges for the attorneys
Speaker 6: was to find yours who would be impartial in making
Speaker 6: a judgment on this case, because this was big news.
Speaker 6: It was a big deal. It was in all the
Speaker 6: newspapers in the area, and as you mentioned earlier, even nationwide.
Speaker 6: I've googled and found newspaper articles from the Boston Globe
Speaker 6: and from a newspaper in Phoenix, Arizona, and from a
Speaker 6: newspaper in Spokane, Washington about this trial that were dated
Speaker 6: back at the time of the trial, So it was
Speaker 6: big news and it was I think a subject of
Speaker 6: conversation in most households of the day. And Gladys was
Speaker 6: the evil one Alvin, you know, I mean, he was
Speaker 6: a murderer, there's no question about that. But I think
Speaker 6: even the law recognized that he never would have done
Speaker 6: that had he not been influenced to do it by Gladys.
Speaker 6: And that's why they allowed him to plead guilty to
Speaker 6: second degree murder, which carried a life sentence but no
Speaker 6: possibility of execution. And so you know, she was convicted
Speaker 6: the first degree murder. He pled guilty the second degree murder.
Speaker 6: They both served their sins in the same prison, of course,
Speaker 6: not on the same side because they're different genders, but
Speaker 6: they both were in prison in Salem. They both had life.
Speaker 6: She was paroled after nine years, he was paroled after
Speaker 6: ten years. And the community was irate when she was
Speaker 6: paroled after only nine years, and they just couldn't believe
Speaker 6: that this evil woman who had so plotted so carefully
Speaker 6: for a great amount of time the death of her
Speaker 6: husband and did all she could do influences to occur.
Speaker 6: They were just appalled that she could get out of
Speaker 6: prison already, and yet she did.
Speaker 10: Absolutely, it's a fascinating story. Till Death Do Us a
Speaker 10: true crime story of bigamy and murder. It's been a
Speaker 10: fascinating interview and it's an incredible book. Patrick Gallagher, Thank
Speaker 10: you very much. Is there a Facebook page that people
Speaker 10: might take a look more information about this book, Till
Speaker 10: Death Do Us?
Speaker 6: Yes, of course. The book is available on Amazon. It's
Speaker 6: also available to the publisher's website, wildbluepress dot com. And
Speaker 6: I have a Facebook page. It's Patrick Gallagher author, and
Speaker 6: you're welcome to go on there and gives information about
Speaker 6: the book and shows a picture of the cover. And
Speaker 6: I'll be happy to answer anybody's questions if you have any.
Speaker 10: That's great. Thank you so much, Patrick Gallagher. Till Death
Speaker 10: Do Us a true crime story of bigamy and murder.
Speaker 10: Thank you very much. You have a great evening.
Speaker 6: Thank you, good night, Thank thank you, by good night.
Speaker 6: You know