1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to the Journey Conversations with publisher Chris Milligan. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,560 I am your co host Adam otherwise known as aw Finnigan. 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,679 Today we will be talking to Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,000 is an author, comedian, and TV presenter known for his 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,239 analysis of Hollywood, geopolitics, and culture, and co writer for 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:27,039 the Sam Hide Show. His graduate work focused on psychological 7 00:00:27,079 --> 00:00:30,239 warfare and film, and he is the author of two books, 8 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:34,679 Esoteric Hollywood one and two, with a third coming out, 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,119 and the co creator and co host of the television 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,240 show Hollywood Decoded. He has been featured on numerous popular 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,320 shows and podcasts and in debates with some of the 12 00:00:46,359 --> 00:00:49,840 world's top debaters, and a fill in host for some 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:55,520 of the largest US radio shows. And now you're in. 14 00:00:55,719 --> 00:00:58,960 Now your host, Publisher Chris Milligan. 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: Thank you Adam very very much, and thank you Jay 16 00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:05,719 for spending some time with us here. You know, these 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:11,400 are interesting times, to say the least. You know, a 18 00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:14,959 lot going on, a lot to look at. And you know, 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,760 I guess I didn't realize your dissertation was about psychological warfare, 20 00:01:21,879 --> 00:01:25,920 because you know, that's been one of a very main 21 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:30,159 interests of mine ever since my daddy and a professor 22 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:33,480 took me in a room and blew my mind, told 23 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,959 me stuff that it took me twenty years to understand, 24 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:45,840 but led me on an interesting path. So, Jake, psychological warfare. 25 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,799 What got you interested in psychological warfare? 26 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: I didn't know what that was until probably college. I 27 00:01:54,519 --> 00:01:58,200 remember I'd watched a lot of movies that I liked 28 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,519 growing up in high school. And I remember, you know, 29 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,439 enjoying Oliver Stone films and you know, stuff like that, 30 00:02:04,879 --> 00:02:09,520 and conspiracy movies like Vic Donner's Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson. 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,080 And I remember when I got to college, I took 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:17,000 some classes on the connection between Hollywood and the history 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,919 of Hollywood, some film classes as well as straight up 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,800 history classes, and I remember that coming up in some 35 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,280 of the classes. And I remember somehow I got a 36 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,800 hold of one of the Trying Day books back when 37 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,039 I was an undergrad, and I remember reading Sutton's You 38 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,919 published Sutton Skull and Bones book, and I remember you 39 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,199 published the Lavenda trilogy, and I got a hold of 40 00:02:42,199 --> 00:02:45,960 that trilogy. Somebody bought me that, I think for my birthday, 41 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,800 and I read that whole trilogy and I thought, this 42 00:02:48,879 --> 00:02:53,080 is this is crazy, this is wild. So that got 43 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,479 me interested in psychological warfare. And at the same time, 44 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,199 I was taking these you know, college classes, and I 45 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,919 had a professor who was an old old school leftist. 46 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:05,159 Uh he was a history professor, and he told he 47 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,319 taught us a lot about uh CIA operations, Latin South America, 48 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,199 that kind of stuff. So that was kind of my 49 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,199 introduction was undergrad college. I didn't I still you know, 50 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,280 I don't consider myself an expert, but that got me 51 00:03:17,319 --> 00:03:20,520 interested in just this whole domain of the overlap of 52 00:03:21,039 --> 00:03:25,199 what the military and what intelligence agencies and what corporations 53 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,960 are interested in. And then you've got this other realm 54 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,439 over here of you know, movies and Hollywood and even 55 00:03:31,479 --> 00:03:34,719 fiction writers, British intelligence fiction writers they did the same 56 00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:37,800 stuff where they would you know, put their some of 57 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,280 the some of the elements of their operations into the 58 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:43,919 novels that they wrote. So that was what got me interested, 59 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,800 was just a combination of books and uh, you know, 60 00:03:47,879 --> 00:03:50,280 some of your materials that you had published back in 61 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:53,199 the day, and college classes and movies. 62 00:03:53,919 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean psychological warfare comes from the 63 00:03:58,039 --> 00:04:01,639 German term meaning you know warld world view warfare in 64 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,439 other words, you want to get people in, you know, 65 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,159 invested into your worldview and different things. And we've had this, 66 00:04:09,319 --> 00:04:15,840 you know, geopolitical things have been going on well before 67 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:21,199 we were all born, you know, and now it's very 68 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:25,680 interesting too. You know. I had the the executive producer 69 00:04:26,399 --> 00:04:30,439 of twenty four, you know, call me up one day 70 00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:35,800 and say, hey, you know, I think that our you know, 71 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,639 this series is being used to propagandize the American people. 72 00:04:40,959 --> 00:04:44,120 I mean, those were his words to me. And and he, 73 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,680 you know, he had felt that, and so he went 74 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,240 out on the internet and started looking around and he 75 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,600 found a bunch of our books and and so you know, 76 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:59,720 he tried to make him into movies and he was stopped. Okay, 77 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,240 I mean, I'll tell just a little bit of the story. 78 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,399 I mean he called me up one time and you know, 79 00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:09,639 he said he was being chased around town by a 80 00:05:10,079 --> 00:05:13,399 white suv and he couldn't he couldn't shake it, and 81 00:05:13,439 --> 00:05:17,000 he was this guy was driving a Ferrari. Another time, 82 00:05:17,079 --> 00:05:19,680 he calls me up and says, you know, we've got 83 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,720 to redo all of our banking things because most of 84 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:28,720 their money was coming from a Mexican national and so 85 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:32,879 because of some laws. They had to really change it, 86 00:05:32,959 --> 00:05:38,079 but they kept on working on these books. Michael Rupert 87 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,079 walked into their office and said, you can't make these movies. 88 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,319 And we hadn't even talked about it, okay, and says, 89 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,319 you got to make a movie about me? Okay, Rupert. 90 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,399 And then and then he finally calls me up one 91 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,839 day and says, you know, well, another time he called 92 00:05:53,879 --> 00:05:56,360 me up and says, they're trying to get me fired. 93 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,160 They're saying that, you know, I'm out on sunset that 94 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,439 selling OxyContin at night. My boss knows that's not true. 95 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,040 So they kept on working on him. Finally he calls 96 00:06:08,079 --> 00:06:09,519 me up and says, well, I've got to go on 97 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:14,279 a sabbatical for two weeks. And I say, okay, what's 98 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:17,720 going on? He says, somebody met his wife on a 99 00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:21,680 street corner and said, you know, if you don't stop 100 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,160 what you're doing, we're going to kill your husband. And 101 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:28,439 then you what are your children going to do? Okay? 102 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,959 And I said okay. And he went on a sabbatical 103 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,560 and called me back up in about two weeks and said, well, 104 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:43,959 I guess we're just making Will Ferrell movies. So obviously 105 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,720 there are some people that have some vested interest on 106 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:55,879 what comes out from Hollywood and what comes out from Hollywood, Jay. 107 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 3: A lot of propaganda. I think you summed it up 108 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:03,680 right there. I didn't, of course, you know, most of 109 00:07:03,759 --> 00:07:05,720 us didn't know this growing up. I know you had 110 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,000 an oss you know, father or is there father or grandfather, 111 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:11,120 I don't remember what it was. 112 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: It was father. He was C O I O S 113 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,439 S G C I A. 114 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,839 Speaker 3: Did you You probably knew a lot of this before 115 00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:18,560 everybody else. 116 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: I would assume, well, I had an inkling. I mean, 117 00:07:22,279 --> 00:07:25,759 he told me about his intelligence career and and he 118 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:32,639 basically he gave me some information that that led me 119 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,639 to look into the subject I call C I A drugs, 120 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,519 which then led you to all kinds of different places 121 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,360 because those people were involved in a lot of the corruption. 122 00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 4: Right. 123 00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had a similar situation. I know this is 124 00:07:48,839 --> 00:07:51,560 not on the topic of the question, but my uncle 125 00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:55,560 had a really interesting career. He was an Air Force 126 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,439 intelligence person. And my family didn't tell me this until 127 00:07:58,639 --> 00:08:00,639 way later on, and they told me all this stuff 128 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:03,399 he was involved in, which I had an inkling of 129 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:04,920 that too, but they didn't tell me until I was 130 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,079 much older about I think I was about age thirty 131 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:10,120 five before they told me all that, but there was 132 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,680 some you know, similar things there with I don't know 133 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,120 about drugs, but there was definitely some operations that were 134 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,120 being done that he did in the Cold War out 135 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,519 of Turkey in regard to the Soviets. But regardless, when 136 00:08:25,519 --> 00:08:28,480 you go back into the forties and the fifties, one 137 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,800 thing I learned more recently that I think is really 138 00:08:30,839 --> 00:08:33,919 fascinating is a lot of these A list people were 139 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,039 recruited into the OSS, especially you know, famous Hollywood people 140 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,360 working in different capacities and doing different things with the OSS, 141 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,639 and you then obviously into the CIA as well. So 142 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,000 when I learned that, that kind of shocked me. I 143 00:08:48,039 --> 00:08:50,480 was kind of surprised by that. And that's maybe just 144 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,879 one element of the angle of the propaganda. You know, 145 00:08:53,879 --> 00:08:57,360 you've got people within Hollywood spying on each other during 146 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,519 World War Two and then into the Cold War, and 147 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,000 then you've got people at the production level working with 148 00:09:04,279 --> 00:09:06,639 people from the OSS and CIA as well. 149 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 4: The OSS help. 150 00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 3: For example, John Ford, if I recall, win some of 151 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,200 his awards, he would not have won those awards if 152 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,200 he had not had such such help from the OSS. 153 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,840 So that's an element of excuse me, a propaganda that 154 00:09:19,919 --> 00:09:23,240 was going on there. I believe it was Burnet's that 155 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,159 said Hollywood is the greatest engine of propaganda the world's 156 00:09:27,159 --> 00:09:29,879 ever seen. And then of course you've got a lot 157 00:09:29,919 --> 00:09:33,679 of influence from foreign countries. We could imagine what foreign 158 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,120 countries Israel, in other countries as we get into the 159 00:09:38,159 --> 00:09:41,200 Cold War, they have a lot of influence in Hollywood, 160 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,879 especially when it comes to productions about the Cold War. 161 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,320 I'm not pro Communist or Soviet, but I definitely think 162 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,519 there was exaggeration going on. So, you know, World War Two, 163 00:09:51,799 --> 00:09:54,759 you've got Corda Circle, You've got Hitchcock, You've got those 164 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:57,799 guys putting out propaganda, You've got Cold War, You've got 165 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,919 you know, CIA putting out consulting on movies, recruiting actors. 166 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,600 You know, there's no end to the propaganda. And corporations 167 00:10:05,639 --> 00:10:08,360 as well. The corporations of course, have a lot of 168 00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:12,559 influence and interest as we get closer to you know, 169 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,399 where we are now, more so maybe than governments, even 170 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:22,919 determining what themes films will will have, what narratives, what 171 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,320 product placement. You know, think of something like the CIA 172 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,679 consulting on Ben Affleck's Argo, which you know won the award, 173 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,440 the Academy Award that year, and that was of course 174 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,039 based on this CIA operation to have a fake movie 175 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,039 being filmed during the nineteen to what is seventy nine 176 00:10:43,879 --> 00:10:47,279 hostage crisis in Iran. So these are just windows into 177 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,039 you know, the propaganda at different levels that we're talking about. 178 00:10:51,639 --> 00:10:57,879 Speaker 2: Right. So now it's it called Lookout that studio that 179 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,080 was up at the top of the canyon, and you know, 180 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,159 that was an obvious facility that they were using to 181 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:10,480 produce and then also to uh, you know, integrate the 182 00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:13,080 Hollywood people in there. And I mean, you know, it's 183 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,559 very interesting that you know, Ronald Reagan all the like 184 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,559 the training films for for World War two and whatnot, 185 00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:26,399 he was basically the narrator for those, okay, which gave 186 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:30,240 his voice, you know, into a lot of people, so 187 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,519 they would trust him in blat of blah blah blah. 188 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,399 And then you had, you know, for the CIA films, 189 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,399 who was the narrator for that but Moses Heston you 190 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,840 know and whatnot. So what do you know about that 191 00:11:44,919 --> 00:11:48,480 facility and what is it doing today? 192 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,919 Speaker 3: Yeah? Of course, just from an artistic perspective I enjoy. 193 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,519 I don't think I've ever watched a Ronald Reagan movie, 194 00:11:56,519 --> 00:11:59,200 but I definitely enjoyed a lot of those Trump Hess 195 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,600 movies growing up up. But I wouldn't be surprised, you know. 196 00:12:02,639 --> 00:12:05,000 I think he was friends with doctor Jillian West, which 197 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:07,519 is an odd connection, but I think, you know, Charlton 198 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,799 Hesson probably had some of those ties, shall we say, 199 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:17,399 as do many A listers still to this day. But yeah, 200 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,559 you're talking about Lookout Mountain Studios, which was if you 201 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,440 drive up Wonderland Avenue up into like if you're coming 202 00:12:26,519 --> 00:12:29,200 from LA and you drive up into Tepanga Canyon, you 203 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,480 can go up up that route and you get up 204 00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:34,799 to the very top. We've gone up there many times 205 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,000 since I wrote the first book, and you can still 206 00:12:38,039 --> 00:12:40,639 see some of the elements of the old Air Force 207 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,759 stuff that the different owners I think has passed from 208 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:46,679 various Hollywood celebrities have owned this facility now, the last 209 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,320 being Jared Ledo. There's still some of the old Air 210 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,559 Force memorabilia there that you can see over his fence. 211 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,159 I wasn't stalking him, right, but you can peek over 212 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,399 the fence. You can peek over the fence and see 213 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,440 like some of the old Air Force stuff there. But yeah, 214 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:00,960 this was the most cutting edge studio of its time 215 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,120 back in fifties and sixties, and all of these Hollywood 216 00:13:05,159 --> 00:13:09,879 executives had access to it. Walt Disney, starlet's like Merilyn 217 00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:13,000 Monroe could go there. We don't even know all the 218 00:13:13,039 --> 00:13:15,759 films that they did produce there, what always produced there, 219 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:17,840 but some of the things that have come out you 220 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,480 can still find on YouTube that we have some of 221 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,120 the propaganda movies that Jimmy Stewart did. He boy did 222 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,840 all of the voiceovers he's in a lot of the 223 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,799 those were pro FBI type films. He actually started in 224 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,360 a few of those FBI propaganda films back in the day. 225 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,159 So yeah, I mean, that's that's a great one to 226 00:13:36,279 --> 00:13:42,919 demonstrate just this key tie in between corporations and Hollywood, 227 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,480 the studio system, the deep state government system, and you 228 00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:50,320 know what they're churning out, and you know, you've got 229 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,559 basically the top people at the time driving up here 230 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,440 to that and then driving back to you know, the 231 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,080 other studios. So it's a big complex that's all intertwined. 232 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,919 And that's one of the key ways to prove that 233 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:02,679 right now. 234 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: Uh, you know, you you do a lot of uh 235 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:09,720 explot well, I don't know about expose a's, but expositions 236 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:13,240 I would say about about different movies in your in 237 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:16,279 your books. And you know one thing that you know, 238 00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:19,480 just I like movies, you know, I thought they were great. 239 00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:22,759 You know, they'd be on TV. You know, you'd watch 240 00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:25,559 them and different things. And and one thing that I 241 00:14:25,919 --> 00:14:29,519 started thinking about, you know, because when you look at 242 00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:32,320 Hollywood and la I mean, there's always been a lot 243 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,600 of cults and interesting people around there. And you know, 244 00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:40,399 when you've got when you're making a movie and you're 245 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,720 making a movie about some of these occult and you know, 246 00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:48,600 devil type themes, it seems to me that, you know, 247 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,600 the whole movie set becomes to a certain extent a 248 00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:58,679 place to have rituals and to do quote unquote workings 249 00:14:58,879 --> 00:15:01,840 when they're doing these movies. Do you have any thoughts 250 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:02,360 about that? 251 00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:04,399 Speaker 4: Absolutely? 252 00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:09,279 Speaker 3: I think I think it might have been Sensor Force's 253 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:12,120 trilogy where I first heard that idea, or maybe it 254 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,159 was some other article somebody had written a long time 255 00:15:14,159 --> 00:15:19,840 ago to remember, But when you look into the way 256 00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:22,440 that people who do ritual magic, who are interested in 257 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,399 that subject matter when they see their actions or even 258 00:15:25,399 --> 00:15:28,919 their artwork. Even something like a film could be seen 259 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,360 as a ritual action. So you're putting your will and 260 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:34,600 your intention out there into the world through this product 261 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,399 to try to get your worldview accepted. You mentioned, you know, 262 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,159 velten schungskriga worldview warfare earlier. That's kind of what is 263 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,600 going on from a propaganda perspective with movies. But also 264 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:51,759 you could be trying to put out your worldview in 265 00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:55,960 a more symbolic occult way like you're talking about. And 266 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,200 so the first chapter or section of the third book, 267 00:15:59,639 --> 00:16:02,759 I call that Hollywood is Megas or magician, because there's 268 00:16:02,799 --> 00:16:06,320 a great there's a classic novel that's in the canon 269 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,639 and Western Canadon literature called The Megas by John Fowls, 270 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:14,399 and he's famous because he wrote a really well known. 271 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 4: Serial killer story. 272 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: But The Vegas is interesting because you have this character 273 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:23,440 who's kind of an Aristotle of Nassas billionaire guy who 274 00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:27,759 kind of can engineer everything in regard to this one 275 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,879 guy's life that he's kind of messing with. So he's 276 00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:32,799 this wealthy guy who has nothing else to do other 277 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,240 than to kind of mess with young idiotic guys and 278 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,879 bring them to your billionaire island and sort of tweak 279 00:16:40,919 --> 00:16:43,279 their worldview and see what you can get them to 280 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,519 believe and not believe. And so I said, you know 281 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:51,799 that character. I think his name is a Conchiese. He's 282 00:16:51,879 --> 00:16:54,600 kind of an image of the way Hollywood works. You, 283 00:16:54,679 --> 00:16:57,519 Hollywood's is the same kind of a thing, where it's 284 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,080 kind of giving us this world you throughout all these stories, 285 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,559 a lot of propaganda, a lot of bad messages, some 286 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,680 good messages here and there slipped through, but probably fewer 287 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,279 good than bad. But yeah, I think you also have directors, 288 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:18,240 to be more precise, who are explicitly into ritual magic, 289 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:21,519 who you have the idea that they're actually participating in 290 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:26,160 ritual workings. Somebody like Darren Aronofsky, who pretty clearly is 291 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,079 into Kabala. Kubrick, you could debate that. I've had some 292 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,359 discussions with Vivian and his daughter, and I keep trying 293 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,160 to get her to come to an interview, but she's 294 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,400 real hesitant to do that. But I think that clearly 295 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,880 Kubrick included some of these themes. How serious he took 296 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,680 any of that is up for debate. But other directors 297 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,279 are more well known. I think David Lynch definitely included 298 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,160 Tibetan Buddhist themes. You know, he included transital meditation themes. 299 00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:59,160 So in those examples, it's clear. More recently, Robert Eggers 300 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,640 that directed The Witch and those fraw two, I mean, 301 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,119 I think he's pretty clearly a Crollian of some kind. 302 00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:08,480 So yeah, that's what's going on at multiple levels once again. 303 00:18:09,079 --> 00:18:13,319 Speaker 1: Right, I love that whole like vampire thing that became 304 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:13,960 really big. 305 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, all occult things, aren't you know. You know, it's 306 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,880 a it's a thing like a gun. I mean, it's 307 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,400 not you know, evil or bad. It's what it's what 308 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,079 people do with it because it is it is a 309 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,319 reality of what uh you know, happens in our in 310 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,839 our life. And I'd like to just go to a 311 00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:41,400 different place here just for a little bit. I'd like 312 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:47,000 to talk about advertisements that we see on TV. Okay, 313 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,480 because I think that's one of the main ways that 314 00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:57,160 they're radicalizing people and getting people into camps, and one 315 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,759 of the main ways that they're messing with us is 316 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,559 advertisements on TV. Do you have any thoughts about that? 317 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 3: You know, it's a good one that I didn't really cover. 318 00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:11,680 You know, I focused on sort of major films, TV 319 00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:16,759 shows and some independent films and B movies. But yeah, 320 00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:19,319 I think that's actually a good overlooked point at music 321 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,799 industry too, music videos, which are not as popular as 322 00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:26,759 it used to be. But you know, it's funny. I 323 00:19:26,839 --> 00:19:31,799 got rid of quote TV probably fifteen to twenty years ago. 324 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,400 I just got rid of it, and so I don't 325 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,079 see a whole lot of TV. Yeah, like when I 326 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,039 go over to somebody's house or if we're eating at 327 00:19:39,079 --> 00:19:40,880 a restaurant, Well, that's really annoys me too. You can't 328 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,319 go to a restaurant now without TVs everywhere, which is 329 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,359 that to me is dystopian. We should be able to 330 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,279 have a meal without having to watch you know, sports 331 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:51,240 and ads. So I do see ads here and there. 332 00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:53,200 And one thing I noticed, at least in the last 333 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,920 ten years is pharmaceutical ads everywhere. I mean, it's just 334 00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:03,000 like you're just you can't even turn the channel without 335 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,839 you seeing just in you know, constant pharmaceutical, which to 336 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,079 me is very brave, New world, very dystopian. The idea 337 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,400 that there's a pill for every single, you know, thing 338 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,799 going on in your life. I think we're meant to 339 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,039 have depression at times in life. We're meant to have 340 00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:22,640 bad experiences that you know, helps balance out with the 341 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,440 good experiences. So the idea that you should medicate yourself 342 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,720 at all times to have no experiences is kind of 343 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,519 you know, uh, kind of crazy to me. But you know, 344 00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:38,039 advertisements also have a lot of odd themes of men 345 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,759 are usually in this sort of women role, or they're subservient, 346 00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:43,839 the women are always bossing the men around. The men 347 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,039 are all idiots, they're all Homer Simpson, they're all you know, 348 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:55,400 Albundi type characters who are just total idiots. Advertisements probably well, 349 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,480 I mean they just kind of further the whole idea 350 00:20:57,559 --> 00:21:01,000 of just endless, infinite, you know, consumption and consumerism. So 351 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,880 I think you're absolutely right that advertisements are overlooked and 352 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:05,599 ads to. 353 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 4: A lot of the directors who. 354 00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: Became kind of prominent directors, many of them began with advertisements. 355 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,640 David Fincher, I think he went from ads and music 356 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,960 videos to being you know, one of the top sort 357 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,559 of directors that it's pretty nihilistic. Most of his movies 358 00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:29,279 are pretty dark and nihilistic. So yeah, that's a good point, Chris, 359 00:21:29,319 --> 00:21:30,640 I should have I should have. 360 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,079 Speaker 1: And then and then they also got into things like 361 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,599 subliminal messaging. I remember that by Jim Keith. What was 362 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,039 that book Jim Keith put that book out about mind 363 00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:41,319 control I have over here. 364 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but they did mass control, mask control that. 365 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: Right, right, yeah, right, and it just you know, it's 366 00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:56,359 part of the whole toxic soup. Okay. But then movies, 367 00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:59,680 you know, I mean it's like you know, the the 368 00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:03,799 quote unquote powers that be have you know, tried to 369 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,119 stop me many times and try to put us out 370 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,480 of business because you know, they don't like us publishing books. 371 00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:16,440 But you know, it's hard to stop stubborn people sometimes. 372 00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:20,880 And then also but when it gets to movies, they 373 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,160 move in with the big guns and stop it because 374 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,839 everybody goes to the movies. I mean, you know, we 375 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,640 have kids and we try and raise them and whatnot, 376 00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:35,799 but you know, uh, they listen to the movies more 377 00:22:35,839 --> 00:22:38,319 than they listen to the parents most of the times. 378 00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:41,960 And then you know, you'll see how the movies take 379 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,839 a life of their own in the society where people 380 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,839 are relating what's going on in the world to the movies, 381 00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:52,960 you know, and and and so they're making you know. 382 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:59,720 So it's it's really quite a toxic soup. So Adam, 383 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:02,559 you know what what what are your thoughts and all 384 00:23:02,599 --> 00:23:05,319 of this and comments. 385 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I I'm like him. I got rid 386 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,599 of my TV a while back, and I started I 387 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,200 just read all the time, like I love books, and 388 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,119 you know, talking to other people, it's just it became 389 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,039 apparent to me people are so used to having the 390 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,519 TV and stuff. It's that a lot of people can 391 00:23:25,559 --> 00:23:27,920 hardly even read a page. They're just like, oh, I 392 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,240 don't you know. It's like we've been really just kind 393 00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:37,319 of dumbed down and almost like a trance. The TV 394 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,920 kind of puts them into a trance. And yeah, I 395 00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:44,599 just said, it's it's it's something else. I mean I 396 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,759 like movies though, you know, I do watch movies and stuff. 397 00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:50,519 It's just I have a TV here, but it's never on, 398 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,599 like I've never I. 399 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 4: Barely even use it. 400 00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:58,519 Speaker 1: I'm always reading and I keep a long list of 401 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,599 every book I read. I keep and that's my way. 402 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,000 But yeah, some people just. 403 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,279 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, my daddy, my daddy told me, he said, 404 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:14,319 you know, read it all, so you know, I look 405 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,119 at it now. I mean, I'll watch the news from 406 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,559 the from the different uh you know, outlets to see 407 00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:23,400 what they're saying, because you know, he told me, you 408 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:28,000 learn so much from missing disinformation about where they're trying 409 00:24:28,039 --> 00:24:31,000 to send you and why, and then what they're not 410 00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:36,359 telling you too. You know, So Jefferson had he said, 411 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,519 you know, he did a little bit more flowery, but basically, 412 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,759 you know, you have to do your homework because if 413 00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:45,200 you don't do your homework, good chance you're going to 414 00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:51,640 be played, you know, and and and whatnot. So, uh, now, Jay, 415 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,920 you came from a philosophy background to you know, you 416 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:03,160 studied a lot of philosophy in college. What what can 417 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:08,160 we learn from philosophy? Why should we care about philosophy? 418 00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:12,359 What does it mean to today's world? 419 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 4: That's a good question. 420 00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 3: So the key issue of philosophy is what is the 421 00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:21,119 meaning of life? 422 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 4: What is the examined life? Right? 423 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: So, if you go back to Socrates and Plato, Socrates 424 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,559 made a lot of people mad in Athens because he 425 00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:34,079 went around asking questions. And the classic dialogue is Plato's Apology, 426 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:38,960 which is about this story of Socrates walking around and 427 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,720 asking everybody, you know, what's the meaning of this? Why 428 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,079 are you doing this? What's the meaning of life? And 429 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,240 he went to all the different people in Athens, including 430 00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:50,519 politicians and craftsmen and tradesmen, and everybody has the same 431 00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:53,359 answer that whatever they're interested in or whatever they do 432 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:55,759 is the answer to life, and that's the meaning of everything. 433 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:58,240 So the politician, of course, says, well, life is politics, 434 00:25:58,839 --> 00:26:01,759 and then the you know, the tradesmen says, well, life 435 00:26:01,799 --> 00:26:04,119 is about you know, your craft and your your trade. 436 00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:08,160 And eventually it goes to the oracle Delphi and says, 437 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,559 you know, who's the wisest man? And the oracle says 438 00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:13,160 you are, and he says, well, why am I the 439 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,200 wisest man? I don't know anything. And the point was that, well, 440 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,480 you're the wisest man because you ask the questions why. 441 00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:20,319 Speaker 4: Right. 442 00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: So one of the things that philosophy does, it's sort 443 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,319 of its essence, is getting us to ask why is 444 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:27,960 this happening? 445 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 4: What is this? What's the meaning of life? The examined life. 446 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 3: As Socrates says, as Plato says, is the only life 447 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,200 worth living. So that's the basics. And then as you 448 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,319 get into more advanced modern types of philosophy, you get 449 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:47,440 the idea of critical thinking and logic and analysis which 450 00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:51,680 points out things that don't make sense, contradictions. So, although 451 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,039 we might not think that philosophy has much to do 452 00:26:54,160 --> 00:27:00,000 with advertising or propaganda, if we recognize fallacious argument's bad argument, 453 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,960 and they help us to identify the propaganda. For example, 454 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,799 go back to weapons of mass destruction, the story, for example, 455 00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:15,599 of that propaganda firm that Bush Senior was involved in 456 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,400 that had the Iraqi ambassador daughter go up there and 457 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,880 say that he's doing. 458 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: The babies out of the incubators. 459 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,599 Speaker 3: So we got to go to war because supposedly there's 460 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,400 weapons of mass destruction, balls of gas that Saddam has 461 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,240 and he's throwing babies out of incubators. Well, on the 462 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,599 surface of it, it's kind of absurd. Why would Saddam 463 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,440 walk through and just throw babies out of incuba? It 464 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,839 doesn't make any sense. And then of course, if we 465 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,440 knew a little bit of the history, we'd know that, well, 466 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,039 Saddam has a history of being trained by the CIA, 467 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,440 and he's pictured in Buddies with Rumsfeld the Pentagon, So 468 00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:54,240 it's like we would know that there's something about that 469 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,720 doesn't make any sense, and it's it's an absurd story 470 00:27:56,759 --> 00:27:59,440 on its face. And then we would have we'd be 471 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,079 able to notice contradictions in the narrative, well, why would 472 00:28:03,079 --> 00:28:05,240 we be friends with Saddam or why would we be 473 00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:07,720 friends with the Mujahadin? And then suddenly there are enemies 474 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,880 the next day, So something doesn't make sense there, something 475 00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:14,200 else is going on. And philosophy just helps you kind 476 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,160 of at a really basic level, use critical thinking to 477 00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:22,839 not be duped by advertising tricks or propaganda which plays 478 00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:25,599 on your emotions. Right, you hear this story of babies are. 479 00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:26,039 Speaker 4: Thrown out of. 480 00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:29,279 Speaker 3: We Got to Go after saying they did the same 481 00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:32,480 thing with a sad right Asad is gassing his own people, 482 00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:35,960 and the BBC puts out this story and later, oh, 483 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,240 it turns out that BBC story wasn't true. And so 484 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,519 you know, wartime propaganda always utilizes these really hyped up 485 00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:50,240 emotional sensational with stories, and philosophy could help recognize how 486 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,440 that doesn't make sense. And movies push the propaganda. They 487 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,119 pushed the pull on your heartstrings through the stories, and 488 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,880 you identify the bad guys through these through these movies 489 00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:05,359 that unknowingly propagandizes you against you know, X, Y Z enemy. 490 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,759 Speaker 5: I would say that philosophy kind of also helps you 491 00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:13,480 put yourself in your own story, kind of like we've 492 00:29:13,519 --> 00:29:16,759 been talking about with those round tables about putting yourself 493 00:29:16,759 --> 00:29:19,480 in your own story, writing your own story for your life. 494 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,200 And philosophy helps, I guess, helps you gravitate to where 495 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,160 you kind of need to be at. 496 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 2: Right, and so it in conspiracy literature, h you know, 497 00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:35,160 there's a lot of talk about Hegel and and you 498 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,519 know they think Hegel is a bad guy, and you 499 00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:42,880 know Hegel was really just you know, trying to explain things, 500 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,839 and can you can you talk about Hegel a little 501 00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:50,240 bit so people can hopefully understand a little bit more 502 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,200 rather than just going for a quick bullet point. 503 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 504 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,799 Speaker 3: I think with most with most philosophers, there's good and 505 00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:03,400 bad pros and con you know, with Plato, he could 506 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,799 be used for the idea of the individual coming to 507 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,000 enlightenment through rational you know, process and thinking and dialectics. 508 00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,519 And it could also be turned into the Plato's Republic 509 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,839 becoming some kind of proto you know, communists, super state. 510 00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:24,240 You know, philosophers can be used in different ways. Hegel 511 00:30:24,359 --> 00:30:30,000 is very dense, it's very abstract, it's very idealistic, not 512 00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:34,160 in the sense of an idealistic, revolutionary, but idealistic in 513 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,599 the sense of everything that exists is mind, geist or 514 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,960 idea or spirit, as he says, So he's somewhat similar 515 00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,279 to Plato. But one of the things that he wanted 516 00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:50,359 to do was reconcile the idea of change or process 517 00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:57,160 versus everything being in a pure, static, immobile sense that 518 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,519 Plato thought about the real world or the forms. So 519 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,079 for Plato, this is a changing, fluctuating world, and the 520 00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:08,079 real world is the ideal realm of the forms. So 521 00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:10,839 Hegel has to be understood in a context of wanting 522 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,640 to reconcile and fix some of what he saw as 523 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,480 old philosophical problems that were still lingering. So if Hegel 524 00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:22,400 thinks that dialectical process in terms of the world itself, 525 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,799 helps to explain where the world is going, what's happening, 526 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,279 how everything is mind or spirit at root, and in 527 00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:34,960 his mind in some way, eventually everything would sort of 528 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,359 culminate into some sort of what he called an omega point, 529 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,319 which is some kind of everything becoming one. It's kind 530 00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:47,680 of mystical, it's kind of unclear. But Hegel's used then 531 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,200 by people like Carl Marx who just sort of flips 532 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,559 Hegel and gets rid of all the spirit geist stuff 533 00:31:55,599 --> 00:31:58,480 and says, Hegel's right about all the stuff he's talking 534 00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:02,519 about about dialectics furthering the whole process of the world 535 00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:07,240 moving towards its purpose. But it's not spirit and all 536 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,000 this mystical mombo jumbo. It's just matter in motion. So 537 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,000 that's where Marx takes Hegel and turns him on his head. 538 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,400 But at root, Hegel is just a kind of process 539 00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:23,319 philosophy or theology that is rooted ultimately in elements of 540 00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:27,440 Hermeticism and Kabbala' that's actually been demonstrated now in some 541 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,279 recent academic literature. 542 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 4: Who are Hegel historians and philosophers? 543 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 3: So that's the process philosophy that So Hegel's philosophy is 544 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,799 a bunch of little triangles where thesis and antithesis come 545 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:47,400 together to produce a higher order of synthesis, which is 546 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,000 a more true revelation than the previous partial knowledge. Right, 547 00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:55,400 So that might be a little abstract, but that's really 548 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,240 the whole Hegelian system. And Hegel doesn't just think that 549 00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:01,359 you or I interacting right now in that way is 550 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,079 further into dialectic. Everything in the world is operating to 551 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,640 further this dialectic towards ultimate synthesis at some future endpoint 552 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,880 in time. Thus, Hegel could be used by a Nietzschean, 553 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,160 he could be used by a communist, He could be 554 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,599 used by a transhumanist. Any of these philosophies could sort 555 00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:23,640 of take that and say, hey, this is our end goal. 556 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 4: I mean the Reich. 557 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,519 Speaker 3: Some of the philosophers of the Reich liked the idea 558 00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:30,000 of Hegel, and they said, hey, what Hegel's saying is 559 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,960 our Reich is the end goal of history. Marx could 560 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,039 say the you know, whither away the state is the end. 561 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 4: Goal of history. So he could be used by various. 562 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 2: People right right now. I don't know rightly or wrongly, 563 00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:49,400 but I look at a dialectic basically as one of 564 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,680 our failed safe devices that we have all as a group, 565 00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:55,119 because you know, I'll say some things I know are 566 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,920 true about secret societies, drug running and intelligence agencies. And 567 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:03,440 now I'll find somebody that's a spook saying something you 568 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,279 know a little bit more outrageous. He'll put lives in it. 569 00:34:06,319 --> 00:34:10,960 Because by controlling the extremes, you control the middle, yes, 570 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,840 and whatnot. So thank you, I really appreciate all this 571 00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:20,320 talk about philosophy. It always helps me to understand things 572 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,079 and U. But let's get back to your books. Esthetary 573 00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:28,400 Hollywood one, Esthetary Hollywood two, and the soon to be 574 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,880 when I come out Esotery Hollywood three. And now how 575 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,159 do people find you? And and what all are you 576 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,920 doing out there? You have some pot you do interviews 577 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,760 and whatnot. How do people find you and whatnot? 578 00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm on the major social media outlets except for Facebook. 579 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,159 I'm not a huge fan of Facebook, so I kind 580 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:51,639 of I mean, there's still a page there, but I 581 00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:53,199 don't really pay much attention to it. 582 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 4: I'll update it every now and then. 583 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,119 Speaker 3: Mostly I'm on YouTube now, and that's kind of the 584 00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:02,559 biggest platform, so I do live streams and videos almost 585 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,880 every day, maybe every other day. That kind of became 586 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,400 the main outlet for me. But I'm also on Instagram 587 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,880 and I'm on Twitter, so people can find me on 588 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,960 all those places, and now TikTok as well. But yeah, 589 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,159 so you can find me there. You can get access to, 590 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,840 you know, the previous books in the shop at my 591 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,800 website jaysonalysis dot com. All my stuff is there, are 592 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,840 all the archived lectures and interviews and talks the last 593 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,519 ten years or so, and the shop you have to 594 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,760 click on the shop tab and you get the two 595 00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,400 st CALLAB one and two. But yeah, I mean it's 596 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,400 been a it's been a wild ride for the last 597 00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:44,199 you know, eleven or almost almost ten years. The first 598 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,400 one came out in twenty sixteen, so we're nine years 599 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,719 out of Callywood one. I'm really thankful to you for 600 00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:56,360 you know, seeing the potential of that and and you know, 601 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,480 publishing that. I think it went. It went for a 602 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,880 great run. And then Part two was great as well. 603 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,960 It was a little bit different. So one we we 604 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,039 focused on a lot of the directors like Kubrick, Hitchcocks, Bilberg, 605 00:36:09,639 --> 00:36:12,039 so the main players in terms of directors. 606 00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 4: And then in part. 607 00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:16,119 Speaker 3: Two it was more thematic, where I talked about organized 608 00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:19,400 crime and I talked about mafia, you know, we talked 609 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,960 about intelligence agencies in Hollywood, of geoengineering, even how that's 610 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,960 portrayed in film. And then this more recently Part three 611 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,639 will be focusing on some of the same material. But 612 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,360 I decided to divide it up into areas that I 613 00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:39,920 never really got to in the first two that were 614 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,960 really important. So we've got comic books. I had so 615 00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:46,039 many people messaging and dming over the lead years. Hey, 616 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,400 you're not covering comic book movies. Those are really big, 617 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,760 those really important, and you know, comic book films took 618 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,599 over Hollywood maybe for the last twenty years. When it 619 00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:58,920 comes to the blockbusters Marvel films. I liked comic books 620 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,800 when I was a kid. I'm not not a huge 621 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,639 comicbood fan anymore as an adult, but for whatever reason, 622 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,559 this just took over, and then Disney bought out Marvel, 623 00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:11,079 so it's you know, it's just a massive thing. And 624 00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:14,599 they're pretty heavy with propaganda. I would say back in 625 00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:18,920 the two thousands they were a little more revelatory in 626 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,280 terms of good, good ideas, and then as we got 627 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,639 you know, more and more up to where we are now, 628 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,559 they're pretty much almost unwatchable. 629 00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 4: So I haven't watched a lot of the. 630 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,519 Speaker 3: More recent, you know, three or four years of comic 631 00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:35,199 book movies, but I did watch throughout the twentys and 632 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,119 twenty tens most of them. So I try to pick 633 00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:41,480 out some of the ones that were really interesting, including 634 00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:43,920 the Christopher Nolan films. I think he's a pretty good 635 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,159 director hit and miss when it comes to some of them, 636 00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:49,920 but you know, he has a lot of union themes 637 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,880 that we highlight in his Batman trilogy. 638 00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 4: And then we go into. 639 00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 3: Dystopian films that I never got to, Mad Max, that 640 00:37:57,559 --> 00:38:01,199 kind of stuff, and then a numbering archetype I wanted 641 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,400 to cover that not a lot of people have noticed 642 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,679 except for some of my friends that the SYSA podcast, 643 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,679 they have highlighted this theme of this sort of dark 644 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,239 goddess that's emerging through a lot of films in the 645 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,119 last twenty or thirty years. So we did a whole 646 00:38:16,119 --> 00:38:20,519 section on that, the whole section on independent and B 647 00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:23,880 movies that I thought were worth people's viewing if they 648 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,280 were interested in this idea of truth in B movies, 649 00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:31,360 and then Hollywood Alchemy, horror Trauma that was I wanted 650 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,199 to hit some of the classics. Electory Detective which was 651 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:39,679 pretty dark, had obvious you know, Krollian satanic cult themes there, 652 00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:44,800 and then it's some more on key propaganda in Tom 653 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,880 Cruise's Mission Impossible stuff, all that's based on the Howard Hunt, 654 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,159 you know, in his his background, his history, and then 655 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,639 some elements of Hollywood spies, actors, who've been recruited into 656 00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:59,920 intelligence work, and then a little bit on Hollywood and 657 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,920 christ and how that's been portrayed in various films. I 658 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,079 think we're kind of at the end of the old 659 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,320 model of the studio system. I mean, you've had a 660 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,199 lot of directors like Spielberg, you others coming out saying 661 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,960 the old studio system is pretty much done, it's going away. 662 00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:20,880 Nowadays it's Apple Studios, Amazon Studios, so the tech companies 663 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,679 are kind of buying out and taking over old Hollywood. 664 00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:29,199 And also, movies are a lot less popular with gen Z. 665 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,559 The younger people. They watch scroll TikTok all day and 666 00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:37,039 they play video games, so I think that they don't 667 00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:41,840 care as much about movies. So it's kind of synchronicity. 668 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,039 I guess you could say that, you know, this last 669 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,199 one that we wrote that I wrote here, well there 670 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,960 might be more, I don't know, but you know, Part 671 00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:51,000 three ends up being sort of the end of at 672 00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:53,880 the end of the old Hollywood system. So it's apocalyptic. 673 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,280 It's an end of the era. So I think it's 674 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,960 a fitting kind of title. 675 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,079 Speaker 2: Right right, And well, you know, I do think that 676 00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:05,360 they are moving some of that propaganda stuff into the 677 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,119 video games, and so let me let me ask you 678 00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:14,920 a question here, what would you now you know you've 679 00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:18,239 gone through all this and this research, what would you 680 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,599 tell your your your own self, you know, ten fifteen 681 00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:27,199 years ago, what have you learned that you know, really 682 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:28,719 profoundly affected you? 683 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 4: I think another good question. 684 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,199 Speaker 3: I think so in the first series of essays, in 685 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,039 part one, there was a lot of speculation and a 686 00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:44,280 lot of symbolic interpretation that it's not that it's bad, 687 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,920 it's just a little kind of kind of speculative, shall 688 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,960 we say. And I think nowadays I would have found 689 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,880 it a lot more interesting to have written more about. 690 00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:57,480 But you know, at the same time, there wasn't a 691 00:40:57,519 --> 00:40:59,639 whole you know, ten fifteen years ago, there was even 692 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:05,599 less information out about people in Hollywood and their their 693 00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:08,599 ties to intelligence. I would have focused more on some 694 00:41:08,679 --> 00:41:13,000 of the stuff that that I put towards the end 695 00:41:13,039 --> 00:41:15,679 of this third book, had I known about it. I 696 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,960 think that's more interesting, maybe even than some of the 697 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,119 propaganda in the films. 698 00:41:20,119 --> 00:41:21,599 Speaker 4: But I think that comes with age two. 699 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,639 Speaker 3: You get a little more mature, you're more interested in 700 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,360 you know, well, it's actually more interesting that you know, 701 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,320 Julia Child's working with the OSS or you know, somebody 702 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:37,280 like Jimmy Stewart, you know, working for the FBI. That's 703 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,039 a little more interesting than you know, this movie over 704 00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:43,400 here with this symbol over here, which is not that 705 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,079 that's not interesting, It's just I would have focused more 706 00:41:46,119 --> 00:41:49,360 on that. I would have looked more at, you know, 707 00:41:50,159 --> 00:41:52,880 modern people. You know, I think some of these big 708 00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:59,320 some of these big A listers themselves have been perhaps 709 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,159 doing you know, I think people like Sean Penn or 710 00:42:02,199 --> 00:42:05,480 people like George Clooney, you know, those kind of a 711 00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:07,880 list people could have been more interesting as a focal 712 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,719 point even back then if I'd known about it, maybe 713 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,679 some of the production companies, some of the actual operations 714 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,400 that were done and apparently about using movies as covers, 715 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:25,079 that could have been I think a better approach, less 716 00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:25,840 of the speculation. 717 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 4: I guess. 718 00:42:26,559 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, somebody comes up and tugs on 719 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,159 people's patriotic heartstrings, and you know you can get them 720 00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:41,679 to do most anything. Adam, you have any last thoughts 721 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,000 here about this interview? 722 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,639 Speaker 1: This was a really this is a great time. Hopefully 723 00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:49,079 maybe I can get you on Try and Day Treasures. 724 00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:52,800 I do a new podcast for trying day authors and stuff. 725 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:53,920 Maybe down the line we. 726 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 2: Can do it. 727 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,079 Speaker 4: Sure anytime. 728 00:42:55,679 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 2: Okay, well, Jay, I want to thank you very much 729 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,599 for your time. And you know, people, if you want 730 00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:06,679 some education, you know, check out j on YouTube and 731 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,480 check out his books and anything. And onwards to a 732 00:43:10,519 --> 00:43:12,320 better future for our children.