WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.040 Oh Hi, it's the crusty plant you never suspected would thrive. 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:08.119 Ali Ward, I'm here, I'm here with you. I'm here 3 00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:12.519 with us. Let us ologize. Okay, it's September. It's the 4 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:16.000 time of year when people in Los Angeles pray for 5 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.440 a day that dips into the sixties. So we can 6 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:22.039 wear a scarf and drive ninety minutes to find an 7 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:26.280 orchard to pretend fall exists. No, I've done it. I've 8 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.760 cried looking at gords. So we're getting into the beverage 9 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.159 that is the apple of our eyes. Cider. What is it? 10 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.560 How old is it? Which ones are delicious heavenly nectar, 11 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:40.159 and which one's tastes like butts? We have answers for you. 12 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:45.079 So this guest is the leading cider expert on planet Earth, 13 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:49.000 and he calls himself like accurately, the Ciderologist. He has 14 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.799 had his hands in or around cider for over fifteen years, 15 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.719 having brewed and judged and championed and even taught cider 16 00:00:56.759 --> 00:00:59.679 courses at the Beer Insider Academy of London he has 17 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:02.320 at There are two books on the topic, the twenty 18 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:06.480 eighteen debut Siderology From History and Heritage to the Craft 19 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:10.760 Cider Revolution and just released a week ago a follow 20 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.599 up called Modern British Cider. So he also co hosts 21 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:18.480 a cider podcast, Neutral Cider Hotel, and he is lovely 22 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.359 and passionate about cider and speaks of it with such 23 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:26.439 mustachioed enthusiasm. But before we meet him, you can be 24 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:29.519 a patron just fyi at patreon dot com slash Ologies 25 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:31.719 a buck a month. Let's use some bit questions to 26 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:34.599 experts like this for no money. You can rate us 27 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.040 on your podcast app if you don't mind, And for 28 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.280 my undying affection, you can leave a review because I 29 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:42.480 read all of them and I prove it with a 30 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.719 just juiced, foaming fresh ee. So this week thank you 31 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.319 to Mohope sixteen, who wrote, recently I needed to hire 32 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:53.200 an employee. My favorite ending interview question is what are 33 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:55.920 you a nerd about? One of the candidates began listing 34 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:58.599 topics of the most recent episodes and I asked them 35 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:00.280 if they listen to Ologies and they said it's our 36 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:02.840 favorite podcast. That's all I needed to know in order 37 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:06.319 to hire them. Whoa mo Hope sixteen. I hope you 38 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:11.159 start merch Monday's at the office ologiesmerch dot com, okay, ciderlogy. 39 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:15.439 Cider comes from the Hebrew sekhar for strong drink, and 40 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:18.840 this ologist is the guy When you google cider expert, 41 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.400 he's the dude. His mustache and his book comes up, 42 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:23.120 and he will happily talk to you about cider for 43 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:25.039 as long as you want, which is why this interview 44 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:27.639 was like pulling up to a picnic table with an 45 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:30.360 old friend I had just never met. So please belly 46 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:33.879 up and prepare for a crisp cup of applely knowledge 47 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:39.639 from the history of cider, How wars impacted cider demand, dipping, 48 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:44.439 babies in taboos, frankin trees, glass vessels, what made Queen 49 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:48.960 Elizabeth scowl at him? How to diy cider, plenty of flipflam, 50 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:53.280 and the best cider We've ever sipped With ciderology author, 51 00:02:53.639 --> 00:03:11.680 podcaster and beloved international cider ologist Gabe Cook. 52 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:19.879 Hi, Hello, how are you? 53 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:23.080 I am very well, Thanks Sally. How's it going with you? 54 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:26.240 You sound great. It's almost as if you have your 55 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:27.400 own podcast or something. 56 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:30.960 That's almost as if I invested in a modest priced mic. 57 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:35.240 What a professional Well, you're making my job too easy. 58 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.000 Hardest question I'm going to ask, can you say your 59 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.080 first and last name and then also whatever pronounce use. 60 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:46.639 Yes, my name is Gabe Cook and I am he him. 61 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:48.800 Cool Colban's and you're a siderologist. 62 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:51.000 I am the Siderologist. 63 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:58.199 Oh I didn't realize the article was so definitive, capital 64 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:01.719 T capital c the siderologist as. 65 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:05.400 A full time profession a little over four years. 66 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.639 I imagine that you were a very enthusiastic dilettante before that, 67 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:10.919 right I was. I. 68 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:17.560 I was using siderologist as my email address for about 69 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.720 since about oh, I think about two thousand and eight 70 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:25.040 or something like that. So the idea and the concept 71 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:28.480 of the ologist of cider had been around for a while, 72 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:31.120 but it took a while for it to become fully 73 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.680 fledged and for actual you know, for it to actually 74 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:38.680 become a career, as it were. The Siderologist is my 75 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.079 is my company, it's my brand name. It's trademarked in Europe. 76 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.120 Getting hands off, nobody has tested it. That was a waste, 77 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.519 the tune shifted, quid, wasn't it. My role within the 78 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:53.240 cider industry is to be a vocal champion because you know, 79 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:56.839 cider doesn't always get the love or the appreciation or 80 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:01.759 the awareness of other drinks. Agreed, the entire industries based 81 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:06.160 around the specialized knowledge and serving of beer and of wine. 82 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:09.439 We've got Somelia's, We've got fantastic servers, We've got critics, 83 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:13.600 we've got writers. I am, to my knowledge, the world's 84 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:16.920 only full time independent cider advocate. 85 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.000 Just for context, I'm team cider all the way I 86 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:23.439 have been since I turned of cider sipping age, which 87 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:25.920 is a debatable age, as you will find out later 88 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:30.240 in the episode. But despite our twenty eighteen episode on Zimology, 89 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.160 which is the science of beer brewing, I have finished 90 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.480 exactly one beer in my whole life and I did 91 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.199 not like it. I don't like beer. I'm sorry. I 92 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.199 would be happy to appear on a debate team or 93 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:47.079 a mock trial tournament representing cider. Fight me. I'm ready. 94 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:50.319 Cider sits in this really interesting and unique space. First 95 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:54.279 of all, you make cider like you make a wine. 96 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.279 You do not brewsider. Brewing is the application of heats 97 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.519 to extract something normally like sort of sugars, all these 98 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.399 kind of characters. That's why you brew beer. It's while 99 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:08.600 you brew tea and coffee. Et cetera. You make cider, okay, 100 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.240 like you're making wine. This is taking a fruit, in 101 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.519 this case apples rather than grapes. You're squeezing them, You're 102 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.959 extracting the juice, which is sugar rich. Really really easily 103 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:22.319 readily fermentable sugars yeast, whether they be wild juice or 104 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:27.399 introduce cheese, convert that sugar into alcohol. So in the 105 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.000 same way that the selection of the apple variety, the 106 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.120 yeast strain, the vessel that you ferment in, how long 107 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.199 you mature, under what conditions you you undertake all this process, 108 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:41.800 that is what is going to give you this unique 109 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:45.240 range of different sort of flavors and styles of cider 110 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.920 that can exist. But the fact is that over the 111 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:51.519 course of the last sort of fifty sixty years, cider 112 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:57.079 has been predominantly tweaked and made and certainly packaged and 113 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:01.439 presented considerably more like a beer. You know, the average 114 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:05.079 alcohol content is closer to your average beer, whatever that is. Then, 115 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.360 let's say an average wine. It's normally carbonated, it comes 116 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.079 you know, on tap, you can have it as a pint, 117 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.800 it comes as a single serve bottle or can. These 118 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:18.399 or cues very readily associated with beer, but it is 119 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:23.040 its own, unique, wonderful and amazing drink, and it's got 120 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:27.439 so many awesome things going for it. Firstly, it's naturally 121 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:31.319 gluten free to anybody who's who's off the gluten, you know, 122 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:34.399 as a lifestyle choice or because it's been really beneficial 123 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:39.079 for their health, naturally gluten free. Unlike a considerable proportion 124 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:43.000 of beers and wines out there which use animal based 125 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:46.240 finding agents in order to reduce so take that sort 126 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.439 of clarity and certain like phonolic and other kind of characters. 127 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:53.199 Cider is very very easily clarified and there's no need 128 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:55.519 for those kind of finding agents. So it's almost to 129 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:57.360 a tea will be vegan friendly as well. 130 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:00.920 Wait, the stuff they used to clarify beer isn't vegan. 131 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:04.639 I look this up and apparently finding agents can include 132 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:09.879 you're ready for this, egg whites, milk, desicated fish bladders, 133 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:15.000 and blood bottoms up. Perhaps that's a big decider for vegans. 134 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:16.240 You know. 135 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.480 It's just this most amazing drink there is, I say, 136 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:22.439 ali a cider for everybody, and it's just trying to 137 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:30.560 get people knowledgeable and enthused about it. Hello of lost. 138 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.279 Yea so yes a Leprechaun put a curse on me 139 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.799 via a loose my cable. So in the lull, Gabe 140 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.799 Ciderologist cracked open a cold one as I sorted out 141 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:45.360 my tectiffs. Dude is truly living his best life. Get 142 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:46.519 ready for some ASMR. 143 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.080 Now that's a good sound. Come on, that's awesome. And 144 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:03.639 do you know what, I'm gonna have a sip. 145 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.879 That's good. I think I have a loose cable. 146 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.480 You know, even the microphone is overwhelmed by some power 147 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.120 of the cider. Do you see who knew that cider 148 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:19.240 oology was so powerful? 149 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:19.399 Oh? 150 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:19.960 My good? 151 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.399 Okay, Mike cable fixed on we go. So to recap, 152 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.919 cider is wine. The legal definition of wine is any 153 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:32.799 alcoholic beverage obtained by the fermentation of the natural sugar 154 00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:36.840 content of fruits or other agricultural products like honey. So 155 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:41.120 I repeat, cider is wine. Cider's wine. It's a type 156 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:44.320 of wine. Really. Mc gabe had mentioned that he hails 157 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:46.200 from a part of the UK that has a rich 158 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:51.120 and bubbly cider history, and that geographically cider is cool 159 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.799 because it tends to be very location based like wines, 160 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.480 whereas beers can have hops and grain from all over 161 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:00.519 the damn world. Also, did he intend to make this 162 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.519 a beer versus sider episode. No, but that's just my 163 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.960 transparent pro cider agenda seeping through what I love cider. 164 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:09.360 Cider deserves more love. 165 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:14.120 And another really crucial aspect is from a sustainability point 166 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:16.559 of view, is that you know the way that you're 167 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:19.519 making cider. It doesn't you know in its most basic 168 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:22.039 not the most basic form, like the fantastic sider that 169 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.320 I'm drinking and the siders that I make, insiders I've 170 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.120 been involved with and side as I champion. You get apples, 171 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.840 you squeeze them. It ferments, that's it, that's it. Unlike 172 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:32.639 you know with the brewing process, where there's a huge 173 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:36.679 amount of energy is needed to heat this liquid to 174 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:39.559 get you know, the enzyme change for the for the sugars, 175 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:41.399 and then obviously when you're boiling it as well, and 176 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:43.320 if you're making a largae you then need to chill 177 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:45.360 it right down as well. There's a lot of energy 178 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.720 and this is an important thing for you know, consumers 179 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.080 increasingly today. And then when it comes to the orchards, 180 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:55.159 these magical, magical places, even if they are really kind 181 00:10:55.159 --> 00:11:00.399 of commercial and commercial orchards. They are still considerably better 182 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:05.720 land uses than monocultures of wheat or maize, and they 183 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.399 support by diversity. They are sucking carbon and locking it 184 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.720 into the ground. They're fantastic places for people to socialize 185 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:15.919 as well, whether that be for walking the dog or 186 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.159 going for a run, or just a bit of mindfulness 187 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.639 and peacefulness and tranquility, learning new skills, community cohesion. There's 188 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.039 just there's just so much. It's just lush. 189 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.639 Oh my god. 190 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:29.200 I was just prepared to like shit talk beer because 191 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:31.799 it tastes bad, but you're like, no, those are really 192 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:32.360 bad plight. 193 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.879 See see this is really good. You know, if if 194 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:39.879 if we're being really really stereotypical here, you could say 195 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.080 that the attitude you know, spirits and let's say whiskey 196 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:47.000 become things is sort of you know, very quite sort 197 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.600 of gentrified and set to their wing back chair and 198 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.519 wine comes in or sort of like elegant and kind 199 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.320 of fern and beer it's kind of like cool and 200 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.440 brash cider. We're just we're just like the we're just 201 00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:00.519 the nice people in the corner. Actually often quite it's 202 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:06.000 like yeah i'm beer. It's like, yeah, I'm cider, and 203 00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:09.120 it's because it does sort of sit as this slightly 204 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.919 sort of not lost or forgotten drink. But you know 205 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:15.960 it's not. It's just not as broadly understood. And so 206 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:18.559 cider's general way, or maybe that's just my way, is 207 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:20.559 that I don't need to bad talk. There's other drinks. 208 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.559 I like beer. I used to make wine in New Zealand. 209 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.440 They're really really cool drinks. It's just it's just giving 210 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:30.039 sider this this platform that it that it can be 211 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.480 an absolute equal to any of those drinks, all of 212 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:36.000 the character, all of the attitude, all of the elegants, 213 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:39.200 all of the finesse. It's yeah, trying to get past, 214 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.720 certainly from a UK point of view, a lot of 215 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:46.360 old stereotypes which are generally quite negative, associated with cider 216 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.840 for various various reasons. You know, on your side of 217 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:51.320 the pond, it's more a case of you know, what 218 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:56.120 is cider or the confusion between you know, unfermented fresh 219 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:59.960 press sort of farm juice, the sider versus the hard sider. 220 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.279 But hard is the you know, the USA is the 221 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:04.679 only nation in the world that uses the prefix of hard, 222 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:08.600 so that, yeah, absolutely, it's all a prohibition thing. 223 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:10.960 Oh, I didn't know that. 224 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:14.639 There is a very very long history of cider associated 225 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:17.639 with the USA, and it generally, you know, it comes 226 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.200 with founding fathers, which isn't necessarily something that is always 227 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.279 as boldly celebrated as it might have been once before. 228 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.279 But it is a fact that cider really was the 229 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:32.720 first commercial drink of you know, the new colony within 230 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:35.440 the within the far northeast of the US, and huge 231 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.240 amounts of cider was made made in you know, in 232 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:41.279 Connecticut and in Maine and in Vermont, and then in 233 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.279 New York and Pennsylvania. Lots of cider was made. And 234 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.000 it was only really with the introduction the big wave 235 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.000 in the sort of the end of the eighteenth century 236 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.279 and into the nineteenth century of Czech and German immigrants 237 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:55.399 to beer really started to come in and gain a 238 00:13:55.559 --> 00:14:00.480 real stronghold all across all across the States. And when 239 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:05.960 prohibition came in nineteen twenty, unlike you know, beer and 240 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.600 sort of like moonshine went underground and hidden the sheds 241 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.720 and things like that. It's quite hard to hide an orchard. 242 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.519 They so they got burnt, you know, a lot of 243 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.600 them got burnt, like or chopped or burnt down, and 244 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.639 those that were left were eating apples, because you know, 245 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:22.360 those apples that were being grown then, like the apples 246 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.320 that are grown in the western parts of England, northern 247 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:28.240 parts of France and northern parts of Spain would be 248 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.320 called cider apples by both people in those areas. These 249 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:34.879 are varieties grown specifically for the sole purpose of making 250 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.120 cider and have been done so for hundreds of years. 251 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.759 So they got rid of all those. What that was 252 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:42.240 left were there's the eating apples, which a bit of 253 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.720 juice was made from, and so the term cider got 254 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:48.080 appropriated to mean that sort of fresh preas juice. So 255 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.000 when probition came to an end in the thirties and 256 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:54.960 booze and sider, you know, fermented cider was allowed, they 257 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.559 needed a new name, so they added the prefix of 258 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.320 hard and hard cider, and that's how that ha come 259 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.440 to pass. But nowhere else in the world needed or 260 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:06.639 had the cultural heritage as to why that was a necessity. 261 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.440 So yes, if you clicked on this episode and thought 262 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.679 that it would be all about Martinelli's or cloudy apple 263 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:16.759 juice from the farmer's market, blame prohibition, not me. Now, 264 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.279 in the eighteen hundreds, cider was the most popular beverage 265 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:23.720 in the US. The century before that, seventeen hundreds, people 266 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.919 in the colonies drank on average a barrel a year each, 267 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.879 So that's a pint a day for everyone. Everyone had 268 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.519 pint a day, and really quick. Let's have a rundown 269 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.759 of types of cider. So there's farmhouse sider, which is 270 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.639 pretty much like what you could make if you were 271 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.879 stranded on an island with just apples and jars. It's 272 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:47.360 fermented juice, pretty dry because the yeast has gobbled up 273 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.039 all the sugars, and it's not super sparkly. Now you 274 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:53.279 can make a farmhouse sider with nothing but raw apple 275 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:56.000 juice and about a week or two worth of patience 276 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.200 and a lot of thirst. So draft cider is what 277 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.080 you're used to seeing on restaurant menus. It's clear, maybe 278 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.759 cut with juice to lower high alcohol content. It's sweet, 279 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.799 it's sparkley. It's kind of like a soda pup. And 280 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.519 then there's a French seed, which is a little more 281 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.960 complex and it involves a process called kieving, which we're 282 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:16.919 going to get into in a bit. It has a 283 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:19.960 low alcohol content and you drink it out of a beret. 284 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.279 That's not true. But let's back up, Well, what about 285 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:28.320 before that head cider or you know, fermented apple juice 286 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.639 existed long long before that. I mean, is it called 287 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:33.960 cider if an apple just rots on the ground and 288 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.159 it's kind of boozy. At what point did we start 289 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:39.279 understanding what cider was. 290 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.879 It's an interesting one. You know, apples as we know 291 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.679 them for eating and making cider and cooking and all 292 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.480 those kinds of things that the ancestor of that can 293 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:53.960 be traced back to the Tienshan Mountain range, which sort 294 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:55.639 of sits sort of just to the northwest of the 295 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:59.759 Himalayas on the sort of Chinese Kazakh Kyrghyzstani kind of border. 296 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:02.080 At the end of the ice say, last ice Age 297 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.880 ten thousand years ago, in these valleys, in the foothills 298 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.599 of these incredible mountains, you had then the last sort 299 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.440 of refuges of these wild apple forests, which when the 300 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:13.960 ice Age came to an end and everything got a 301 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.720 little bit warmer, they started to flourish and grow a 302 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.359 little bit. But it also coincided with also, you know, 303 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:23.319 humans also flourishing and growing, and you know, undertaking this 304 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:27.640 amazing you know, trans continental journey from the east to 305 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.799 the west along the Silk Road. And so people and 306 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:33.279 animals started to pick up these apples and take them 307 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.240 along the way, and they'd eat and they'd poop and 308 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:37.119 it would pips would go on the ground, and the 309 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:40.440 sort of the apples started to get taken west and 310 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.160 it underwent this amazing sort of you know, genetic sort 311 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.759 of diversity, kind of like journey along the way. Because 312 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.480 if you plant the pip of an apple of let's say, 313 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.000 what's your favorite eating apple. 314 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:57.319 Alley, Oh my gosh, I would probably say I'm going 315 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.400 to go Grannie Smith. I'm just going to go super tart. 316 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:01.359 Don't judge me. 317 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.480 Yeah, yeah, lovely, lovely and crisp, lovely and zingy awesome. 318 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:08.359 If you planted a pip from a Granny Smith into 319 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.319 the ground, the apple variety that will pop up will 320 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.240 be guaranteed to not be Granny Smith. 321 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:17.839 Right, Okay, so this is grafting. Is this the magic 322 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:18.839 of grafting? Okay? 323 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.319 It is. It is. Imagine that the like that you've 324 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:25.799 got the mother tree, that Granny Smith tree gives that 325 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.599 fruit and it's got the pip inside, but they're not 326 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:29.880 self fertile. In order to be able to produce that fruit, 327 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:33.279 you have to have pollen from another variety, often brought 328 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:36.599 over by pollinating insects like the wonderful bees. That's why 329 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.640 we love bees very very much. They bring over the 330 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.240 pollen on there lex it pollinates the blossom that turns 331 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.039 into the apple, and the pip inside has got the 332 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:49.240 genetics the DNA of both the mother tree that Granny 333 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.960 Smith and whatever pollinated it, it won't be the variety 334 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.960 that you've got. And so this obviously is a little 335 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.559 bit of a problem. Yeah, if you really like Granny 336 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:00.400 Smith and you want to continue. So this is when 337 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:05.799 the Mesopotamians circa three something thousand years ago just somehow 338 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:08.720 worked out that if you snip the end off a 339 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:11.279 growing tip and you know, fuse it onto something that's 340 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.000 already into the ground, they will hold and it will 341 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.240 take and you can have one tree two different varieties 342 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.400 or intended variety at the top and the rootstock at 343 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:19.880 the bottom. 344 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:22.119 Can you imagine if you were like, Wow, I really 345 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.440 like my kid, but who knows what the hell kind 346 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:26.279 of grind kids I might have? So then you just 347 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.640 hacked off their limb and sewed it onto another body. 348 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.960 Some apple rootstock trees straight off at the chopped mid trunk, 349 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.759 and then they get a new head grafted on, which, 350 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:38.839 if that's not horticultural gore fit for spooky season, I 351 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:39.960 don't know what the hell is. 352 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.720 The idea of sort of cultivating apples. It's been around 353 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:45.759 for a long time, but the evidence of actually making 354 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.599 cider is probably about two thousand years old. There's first 355 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:51.279 sort of talks in sort of, you know, in the 356 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.880 Greek literature, in the Roman literature, about about references to 357 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.720 cider making or like the wine of apples and pears, 358 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.200 things like that, whereas wine and you know, very strong 359 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.599 evidence of that being made considerably further back. The primary 360 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:08.240 difference is around the structure of grapes and apples. My grapes, 361 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.240 they're lovely and small and lovely and soft, and you know, 362 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.039 you want to extract the juice, and you could literally 363 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.200 do that by treading them underfoot, and lots of people 364 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.920 do still that today. You try treading some apples, and 365 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.160 you're going to get some fairly bruised feet quite quickly, 366 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:25.759 aren't you. Yeah, it's this really strong cell structure what 367 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.359 sider still needs today. Is it's a two step pro 368 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:31.640 so you don't just press apples, you have to mill 369 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:32.759 the apples first. 370 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:35.319 This mill can do the same amount of work that 371 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:38.359 took many nights with my juicer in simply a matter 372 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.680 of hours. The crusher works by spinning times like, grab 373 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:45.359 the apples and mash them through a set of blades. 374 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:47.920 And then you've got to press them. So this extra 375 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.640 bit of technology that is needed to turn these solid 376 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.079 apples into something mushy enough that you could then easily 377 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:56.279 extract the juice from that didn't really come around until 378 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.400 sort of olive milling technology was also developed right about 379 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.359 two thousand years go and sort of shed into that 380 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.599 sort of Mediterranean area around that time. 381 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.480 Just a side note, I looked it up. Milling is 382 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.200 just crushing up the apples any which way you can. 383 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.640 People do this with various levels of force. Some just 384 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:19.640 smash apples with mallets in what looks like a wooden bathtub, 385 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:23.640 or you can bean apples with a stone wheel dragged 386 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.640 by a horse or a donkey or something. There's also 387 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.680 mechanical mills, and they chew the apples into a really 388 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:32.400 fine pulp, and then all that apple mash has to 389 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:37.759 be squeezed until it cries delicious juice. And sometimes that's 390 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:40.839 done in sacks. It used to be strained through straw. 391 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.759 No thank you. Now what happens to that giant cake 392 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.720 of compressed apple pulp? What do you do with it? 393 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.839 Can you sit on it like a cushion? Maybe that's 394 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.920 not my business, but it gets fed to livestock. You 395 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:56.079 can also do a second wash and make a really 396 00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.119 weak sider with it, but it's called apple mash. But 397 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:05.240 it's also according to our friend Workipedia, cake math POWs 398 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:09.319 mirror or homage. So who knew cider making came with 399 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:13.079 such a big, frothy mugga slang? Not me, but back 400 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.240 to history. So cider has been around for centuries because 401 00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:19.680