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Speaker 2: Hostadian You are now listening to True Murder, the most
Speaker 2: shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that
Speaker 2: have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK.
Speaker 2: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 2: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 2: your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 5: In the midst of Pennsylvania's Amish Country, on a peaceful
Speaker 5: summer night in two thousand and eight, the body of
Speaker 5: forty five year old Jan Roseboro was found at the
Speaker 5: bottom of her backyard pool. Her husband, Michael, a successful
Speaker 5: business and a member of a prominent family, showed no
Speaker 5: emotion as he learned of her death, but the next day,
Speaker 5: in autopsy revealed Jan had been savagely beaten and strangled
Speaker 5: before being tossed in the water to drown. Soon, Michael's
Speaker 5: secret lover, pregnant with his child, stepped into the media spotlight,
Speaker 5: and a horrifying true story of illicit pass and passion,
Speaker 5: deadly deceit, and cold budded murder unfolded Love Her to
Speaker 5: Death is the book we were going to be speaking
Speaker 5: about tonight with my special guest investigated journalist and author
Speaker 5: M William Phelps. Thank you very much for agreeing to
Speaker 5: this program, and welcome to the program. M William Phelps,
Speaker 5: Hey Dan, how are you.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me on, appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Matthew.
Speaker 5: Why don't you set the tone for this here? And
Speaker 5: we spoke of Pennsylvania's homage country in a place called Denver, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5: Tell us a little bit about the community and the
Speaker 5: kinds of people that live in this community.
Speaker 6: Well, when we talk small town in which kind of
Speaker 6: a cliche they are almost to talk small town nowadays
Speaker 6: where everybody knows everybody. Denver is essentially a small town.
Speaker 6: And surrounding Denver you have Mennonites, you have the Amish,
Speaker 6: and you know, there's probably, I don't know, four thousand,
Speaker 6: five thousand people in this community, but it seems like
Speaker 6: a lot less because it's so rural, so hilly, it's
Speaker 6: so spread out, and it's just quintessential Armis country. You know,
Speaker 6: green landscapes, you know, cows, horses, corn I mean, there
Speaker 6: are sections of this town. I'm driving through with one
Speaker 6: of the police officers and I was there during right
Speaker 6: before they were chopping all the corn, and literally you're
Speaker 6: driving around in a tunnel of corn. You can't see
Speaker 6: you can't see the roads anywhere but where you're driving,
Speaker 6: and it's really eerie a little bit and really strange.
Speaker 6: And so I think the point I'm trying to make
Speaker 6: is for a murder to take place in a town
Speaker 6: like this, it's not only rare. I mean, I think
Speaker 6: the only other murder that took place in town that
Speaker 6: these cops investigated was twenty years before, and they had
Speaker 6: salvad I think that day or something. So this was very,
Speaker 6: very strange and very rare for this community.
Speaker 5: Now, one of the main characters of this story, of course,
Speaker 5: is Jan Roseboro and Michael Roseboro. Maybe you can tell
Speaker 5: us first about Jan Roseboro and how she met Michael,
Speaker 5: and tell us a little bit about Jen Roseboro, her family,
Speaker 5: her upbringing, where she grew up, tell us a little
Speaker 5: bit about Jan Roseboro place.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, they all grew up right in that
Speaker 6: Pennsylvania area there, maybe not in Denver, but certainly in
Speaker 6: and around that area. And Jan came from a pretty
Speaker 6: well to do family of bankers. Our father was, you know,
Speaker 6: her father, as describe in a book A little bit
Speaker 6: was that James stort character in Uh, It's a wonderful life.
Speaker 6: Who you know, if you didn't have the collateral or
Speaker 6: if you didn't have really the credit, he gave you
Speaker 6: the loan because he knew you and he trusted you,
Speaker 6: you know, and he was that banker. And uh, later
Speaker 6: on in life, when the kids grew up, Jan her
Speaker 6: sister's brother, the the he sold the bank to a
Speaker 6: big corporate bank, and so they had some money, sure
Speaker 6: and Jan, but but Jan didn't grow up in a
Speaker 6: family that flaunted it or that you know, showed off,
Speaker 6: you know, the wealth that the family had. She she
Speaker 6: didn't indulge herself in in you know, all kinds of luxuries.
Speaker 6: I mean, she had money, so she had things in
Speaker 6: life like anybody. And and and she was just when
Speaker 6: she married Mike Roseborough, who was again another person who
Speaker 6: came from a well to do family. Michael Roseboro's family
Speaker 6: had been into mortuary undertaking business burying people for over
Speaker 6: a century. I mean his great great grandfather's great grand grandfather.
Speaker 6: And then Michael took over the company and it was
Speaker 6: a one man operation. Basically they had some help, but
Speaker 6: it was you know, I got a hold of the
Speaker 6: financial records and they were making you know, they were
Speaker 6: bringing in over a million dollars a year in that
Speaker 6: little town, burying people, you know, and so you had basically,
Speaker 6: if I hasten to say it, but like a power
Speaker 6: couple in this little community, this would be it. I mean,
Speaker 6: but by no means that they flaunt it. You know,
Speaker 6: Mike did later, but not early on in you know,
Speaker 6: they were they were just two people who fell in love,
Speaker 6: came from similar backgrounds as far as financial et cetera,
Speaker 6: and education wise. Both went to college, et cetera. And
Speaker 6: they fell in love and started having kids and Jan
Speaker 6: and this is where Jan's true character started to shine.
Speaker 6: She loved being a mother, She loved taking care of
Speaker 6: those kids. She she was her vocation. She was at
Speaker 6: every swim meet, every little league game, soccer game, and she,
Speaker 6: you know, she took those kids around. And you know,
Speaker 6: Mike worked, you know, and there was nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 5: Sure. Now, what was Michael Roseboro's upbringing. You talk about
Speaker 5: that he had a wealthy family and they were in
Speaker 5: the funeral home business, and then he inherited that mantle
Speaker 5: and went on to be a successful operator of this
Speaker 5: funeral home. Roseboro funeral home. So tell us about his
Speaker 5: upbringing and whether there's any siblings. Tell us a little
Speaker 5: bit about his early life and what was he really
Speaker 5: like according to the people that knew him best.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I spoke to lots of people about
Speaker 6: Michael Roseboro and they all said the same thing, that
Speaker 6: he was that jock guy. You know, he was that
Speaker 6: mister popular guy who for many girls in high school
Speaker 6: basically was unapproachable and that sort of thing. But deep
Speaker 6: down he was a shy guy, you know, and thought
Speaker 6: he was mister it, et cetera, et cetera. And his
Speaker 6: whole life he worked at a funeral home. I mean,
Speaker 6: that was his life. He was groomed from high school
Speaker 6: to take over the business. And one of the quotes
Speaker 6: in the book talks about, you know, he was mortified
Speaker 6: by death. He said, he hated death, but yet it
Speaker 6: became his life, so he learned to accept it. And
Speaker 6: he said the best part of my job is sitting
Speaker 6: with families in their time and need and being compassionate
Speaker 6: to them. And I found this to be one of
Speaker 6: the most bizarre strain, you know, stunning part of this
Speaker 6: for me that I talked to couple after a couple,
Speaker 6: person after person who said, Mike came into my home
Speaker 6: to pick up my father or my son or whomever
Speaker 6: had died, and he was the most compassionate, caring for
Speaker 6: He made me feel like I didn't have a worry
Speaker 6: in the world. He was going to take care of everything.
Speaker 6: He picked up the body, put it in, you know,
Speaker 6: in a body bag, took it out, and prepared it,
Speaker 6: and he took care of everything. So he did end
Speaker 6: up embracing his job, you know, and really really understanding
Speaker 6: what it took to be a good undertaker.
Speaker 5: Now, what was the what was their roseboo marriage characterized
Speaker 5: by was from everybody that knew from the kids? What
Speaker 5: was it from all appearances? What was their marriage like?
Speaker 6: Well, the marriage went through you know a series of
Speaker 6: ups and downs, if you will. I mean started out strong, obviously,
Speaker 6: they had four kids, you know, one basically one after another,
Speaker 6: couple of years in between, maybe while he built up
Speaker 6: the business, uh and I should say he built up
Speaker 6: the business while he built up the house. I mean
Speaker 6: they ended up taking a little house that Jan was
Speaker 6: raised in and and and where she lived as a child,
Speaker 6: and Mike and Jan built this into a just like
Speaker 6: ah An estate. Really, Uh, they just kept adding on
Speaker 6: and adding on and adding on to this thing until
Speaker 6: it was like the shape of like an L shaped
Speaker 6: you know sprawl, you know, and and you know the
Speaker 6: marriage was you know loving from all indications. I mean,
Speaker 6: all the relatives people friends that I spoke to, you know, said,
Speaker 6: you know, Mike and Jan loved each other. I mean
Speaker 6: they weren't arm in arm and you know, constantly embracing
Speaker 6: all the time, but you know they did enjoy each
Speaker 6: other's company when was a party or something. But then
Speaker 6: you know, later on, and I start to talk to
Speaker 6: some of their close friends, later on, it becomes apparent
Speaker 6: that Mike is sort of a womanizer. He's sort of
Speaker 6: a player. He's sort of a flirt. He likes to flirt,
Speaker 6: you know, if there's a barbecue, if there's a party,
Speaker 6: he always wants to be the bartender. He always wants
Speaker 6: to be the one who's feeding the ladies the drinks
Speaker 6: and laughing with them and joking with them. And this
Speaker 6: becomes utterly apparent to lots of people that Mike is
Speaker 6: perhaps you know, stepping out on Jan. And and then
Speaker 6: he gets into the grits of the rumor gossip mill,
Speaker 6: in tower and it starts churning and people start to talk.
Speaker 6: You know, Mike's seeing here, Mike's seeing there, Mike's with
Speaker 6: this one, Mike's.
Speaker 3: With that one.
Speaker 5: Okay, Now, how much does Jan know about his infidelities.
Speaker 6: She told a couple of she told a couple of people,
Speaker 6: you know, that she believed Mike was stepping out on her.
Speaker 6: She caught him once. She you know, from the phone bill.
Speaker 6: She caught him once going because Jan used to take
Speaker 6: care of the phone bill. So his cell phone bill
Speaker 6: or something came in and there's all these numbers on it,
Speaker 6: and she approaches him. And someone in the family and
Speaker 6: I didn't say who in the book, but someone in
Speaker 6: the family. Jan was talking about it one day and
Speaker 6: someone on Mike's side of the family says to her, look,
Speaker 6: that's the Roseboro male way. You suck it up and
Speaker 6: you move on. You know, you do your duty as
Speaker 6: his wife and his mother and the mother of those kids,
Speaker 6: and you suck it up because that's the Roseboro way.
Speaker 6: That's what you do. And you know, Jan wasn't that type.
Speaker 6: You know, she wasn't that type, although she did stay
Speaker 6: in the marriage. I should say right.
Speaker 5: Now, the Faithful Day is in July two thousand and eight.
Speaker 5: But before that, I thought very interesting, Michael Roseboro decides,
Speaker 5: and I guess along with the family, decides to construct
Speaker 5: something in the backyard. What does he build sometime well
Speaker 5: before July two thousand and eight for his wife and
Speaker 5: himself and in their backyard.
Speaker 6: Well, he builds this beautiful in ground pool with you know,
Speaker 6: stellar landscaping and all the additions and anything you could imagine,
Speaker 6: and tiki torch lamps that are not the kind of
Speaker 6: buy at you know, the local grocery store. These are
Speaker 6: ones that are implanted in the ground and fed by
Speaker 6: natural gas. And there's there's stone and beautiful trees, and
Speaker 6: there's this beautiful pool that's lit up at night. And
Speaker 6: you know, I start to talk to the neighbors around
Speaker 6: the house and they're telling me, you know, this place
Speaker 6: was lit up every night and there was a party
Speaker 6: out there, not necessarily a drinking but a party with
Speaker 6: the family or someone every single night that summer after
Speaker 6: that that that that edition was finished, and they would
Speaker 6: they just really lived out there for that summer of
Speaker 6: two thousand and eight, the first year that they had
Speaker 6: to pool, and uh, you know it brought them together
Speaker 6: in many ways, you know, the kids, Jan, Mike, and
Speaker 6: and the one the one thing that everybody said that
Speaker 6: I talked to which becomes significant later as you know
Speaker 6: you read the book, is that that backyard was lit
Speaker 6: up like a football field every single night, you know.
Speaker 6: And I think what's significant to me is is, uh,
Speaker 6: the testimony that I got from the fireman. There's a
Speaker 6: firehouse like diagonally from their house, maybe two or three
Speaker 6: hundred yards away from the house, and these firemen would say,
Speaker 6: every time we went on a call, we would we
Speaker 6: would take a look over there because we like to
Speaker 6: look at Jin because she was a looker, and she'd
Speaker 6: be in her bikini or whatever, and she'd be out
Speaker 6: by the pool and they would remember this. This was
Speaker 6: something they remembered because there'd always be lights on outside.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very significant. Now what was happening in Michael
Speaker 5: Roseborow's life at that time didn't have any financial problems.
Speaker 5: It looks like that you said, you're making a fair
Speaker 5: amount of money and it was a one man in operation.
Speaker 5: But what is going on in Michael Roseborow's life unbeknownst
Speaker 5: to his wife Jen and his family and maybe a
Speaker 5: lot of his friends.
Speaker 6: Even he's making a fortune. I mean, he's not making
Speaker 6: a fair in mind, he's making a fortune. He's bringing
Speaker 6: home you know, paper, I mean serious paper, and you know,
Speaker 6: not much overhead for him, you know. So what happens is,
Speaker 6: you know, he starts to get an eye for this
Speaker 6: woman who lives across the street from the funeral home.
Speaker 6: She starts walking by the funeral home, walking one of
Speaker 6: her kids. They eye each other. He sees her at
Speaker 6: a local town fair. They eye each other. He finds
Speaker 6: out where she goes for coffee every morning up the street.
Speaker 6: He starts going there. They bump into each other. They
Speaker 6: start talking, and one thing leads to another, and next thing,
Speaker 6: you know, you know, they're sharing what one hundred, one
Speaker 6: hundred and fifty emails and texts a day, and Michael
Speaker 6: Roseboro quickly, quickly becomes obsessed with this woman.
Speaker 5: Now, you said that this woman lives right down the
Speaker 5: street or across the street from the funeral home, and
Speaker 5: the funeral home is.
Speaker 6: Downtown Denver, Downtown Denver.
Speaker 5: Now how does he go about? You say, there's emails?
Speaker 5: So what first off, let's hear what is very quickly
Speaker 5: the content of those emails. Is this a sexual relationship?
Speaker 5: Is he upfront about his marriage? What does he have
Speaker 5: to say about his marriage? What is the what's the
Speaker 5: tone of this relationship.
Speaker 6: I mean, he really doesn't have to say that he's married,
Speaker 6: because everybody in town knows that he's married. I mean,
Speaker 6: he's Michael Roseboro. In fact, the woman, the woman who
Speaker 6: he had this eye out for, had been eyeing him
Speaker 6: before he even presented himself to her and asked her
Speaker 6: out on a lunch date. I mean, she said, I've
Speaker 6: been eyeing you for a long time. I mean, I
Speaker 6: think you're attractive. She told one of her girlfriends, I'm
Speaker 6: going to marry that guy someday. That's what she told
Speaker 6: one of her girlfriends. And here she is married herself
Speaker 6: with kids. She knew Michael Roseboro was married. He didn't
Speaker 6: keep it a secret. They're in this small little town.
Speaker 6: She was directly across the street from You know, when
Speaker 6: I say down the street, I'm talking, you walk out
Speaker 6: the back door of the funeral home and you look
Speaker 6: to the right and boom, there's her house. In fact,
Speaker 6: she lived right next door to Michael Roseborough's parents, who
Speaker 6: ran the funeral home before him. So this is that
Speaker 6: small of the town, and these emails become heated immediately,
Speaker 6: you know, they the sexual energy between these two it
Speaker 6: just is enormous and it starts building and building and
Speaker 6: building until you know, he cannot take it anymore. He's
Speaker 6: got to He's got to get her somewhere alone where
Speaker 6: he can you know, he can make love to her
Speaker 6: or have sex with her. And you know, I go
Speaker 6: through the email and I go through the relationship. I
Speaker 6: don't be labored in the book, but I go through
Speaker 6: it in detail to show the build up, you know,
Speaker 6: the build up to all of this.
Speaker 5: Now you talked about they have to find a place
Speaker 5: to to to provide and know where it's incredible. Where
Speaker 5: do they decide, at least sometimes to have sexual relations.
Speaker 6: Well, one time they had sexual relations right in the
Speaker 6: funeral home where a while while he was preparing a body.
Speaker 6: I mean, and and and the paragraph. I'll never forget
Speaker 6: this paragraph. I think about it often in the book
Speaker 6: that I wrote. And you know, I can only think
Speaker 6: that the person who is at home grieving, right the
Speaker 6: person at home who had hired Michael Roseborough to take
Speaker 6: care of their dead son, dead daughter, whatever, they're at
Speaker 6: home crying getting ready for this funeral. He is in
Speaker 6: there banging his mistress who lives across the street. And
Speaker 6: and you know, and this guy presented himself as this classy,
Speaker 6: classy businessman, you know, so he's living this double life,
Speaker 6: you know. But then they he Angie. His mistress is
Speaker 6: in charge of cleaning apartments and preparing apartments for a
Speaker 6: family apartment building, you know, almost an hour away. So
Speaker 6: they start to rendezvew in that empty apartment, the any
Speaker 6: empty apartment they can find after that, and then you know,
Speaker 6: they even go to a monastery, parking lot of park
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, anywhere they can basically inside the car,
Speaker 6: the suv. It's it becomes an obsession for him. I mean,
Speaker 6: he just has to have this woman all the time.
Speaker 5: Now there is other talk besides just the sexual passion
Speaker 5: that they have for each other, because he talks about
Speaker 5: the relationship and how serious they believe the relationship is
Speaker 5: so tell us I thought was fascinating as well. Mixed
Speaker 5: in with a lot of sexual tension and energy, is
Speaker 5: also this other conversation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and we're not talking you know, we're talking here, Dan,
Speaker 6: We're talking about as you know, we're talking about a
Speaker 6: period of like from May thirtieth to like, you know,
Speaker 6: May sixteenth, May thirtieth to like middle of June. Okay,
Speaker 6: we're talking about a couple of weeks there where he
Speaker 6: starts talking about marriage already, she starts talking about marriage.
Speaker 6: They both start emailing each other about we found the
Speaker 6: love of our lives. We're going to get married. They
Speaker 6: start planning in the wedding. He starts picking out gowns,
Speaker 6: he starts picking out places to They're gonna get married
Speaker 6: on the beach. All their kids are going to be there.
Speaker 6: You know. They start talking about all of this, this
Speaker 6: this life they're going to build together, and and and
Speaker 6: he never once mentions this one anomaly in all of this.
Speaker 6: There's one anomaly in all of this, at least for
Speaker 6: him we're talking about. And that is what. That's his wife,
Speaker 6: whom at the time he is what. He's going home
Speaker 6: telling his wife, I'm taking you to North Carolina. We're
Speaker 6: going to renew our wedding vows for our twenty fifth
Speaker 6: wedding anniversary this coming summer. So he's playing both sides
Speaker 6: of the coin. Now, you know, he's telling Angie, his mistress,
Speaker 6: he loves he wants to marry. He's telling his wife,
Speaker 6: I'm taking you and you know twenty of our friends
Speaker 6: to North Carolina to the outer Banks to renew our vows.
Speaker 6: So this is a narcissist. I mean, if you study
Speaker 6: these things, and I've written twenty books about you know,
Speaker 6: murders and and this type of murder is the classic
Speaker 6: textbook case narcissist who believes a no one he's ever
Speaker 6: gonna catch me. Be I'm smarter than everybody else. And see,
Speaker 6: I can get out of this anytime I want to.
Speaker 6: I'm Michael Roseborough.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. Now to add to this incredible
Speaker 5: mix and this confluence and unsustainable non reality that this
Speaker 5: guy's going through, all the delusions that he can maintain this,
Speaker 5: what does his mistress tell him, inform him, which makes
Speaker 5: a story going in a particularly different directions. Suddenly, well, yeah.
Speaker 6: There's a there's a there's a big shocker here. I mean,
Speaker 6: there's a surprise here. All of a sudden, she becomes pregnant.
Speaker 6: The mistress becomes pregnant. The worst case scenario that could
Speaker 6: happen for them happens. And you know I heard they
Speaker 6: sorted to heard such varying stories about this, that she
Speaker 6: she trapped them, that she says the condom fell off.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's all kinds of different stories about this.
Speaker 6: So we don't know the facts because she wouldn't talk
Speaker 6: to me. She had no trouble talking to CBS forty
Speaker 6: eight hours going on camera and crying, but she would
Speaker 6: not speak to me. But let me tell you, I
Speaker 6: spoke to some people and her family, and I spoke
Speaker 6: to some close people to her, and as you know
Speaker 6: from that book, I got in deep with her life.
Speaker 6: And also you know, there was a lot of documents
Speaker 6: that were never released that I got my hands on.
Speaker 6: So so she becomes pregnant, and you know, the pressure's on.
Speaker 6: I mean, the pressure is on. He needs to you know,
Speaker 6: everything's coming to a head here. He needs to do
Speaker 6: something about the wife, you know, or she needs to
Speaker 6: do something about the wife, one of the two of them,
Speaker 6: do you know, Because she's prepared. She is prepared to
Speaker 6: walk into her house at any day and tell her husband,
Speaker 6: get out divorcing you, of marrying him. She's got no
Speaker 6: trouble doing that, you see. And Mike, for some reason,
Speaker 6: because he's a narcissist, cannot do that, you know. One
Speaker 6: of the motivations here that they would they talked about
Speaker 6: during the trial, which I don't necessarily know if I
Speaker 6: believe it, if I agree with her or not, was
Speaker 6: the financials. You know, if he divorced jan he'd have
Speaker 6: to give her half of everything, He'd have to pay
Speaker 6: her alimony, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, he was
Speaker 6: with her twenty five years. She deserves, you know, every
Speaker 6: penny of that. And one of the motivations the DA
Speaker 6: you know, and God bless him. I mean, that's his job.
Speaker 6: Argued was, you know, Mike didn't want to do that,
Speaker 6: didn't want to share his wealth, and so he you know,
Speaker 6: he chose you know, murder instead of sharing his wealth.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I mean it, this is textbook narcissism.
Speaker 5: It also presents a problem for the good reputation of
Speaker 5: this person that, like you say, this family, it's owned
Speaker 5: a funeral home for one hundred years, and you're in
Speaker 5: a pretty pretty deep religion country here. I mean, this
Speaker 5: is some serious religious people in around that area.
Speaker 6: And a mistress we should say it comes from a
Speaker 6: Mennonite background, sure, I mean she has family ingrained in
Speaker 6: the Mennonite community. She you know, practiced the Mennonite culture
Speaker 6: herself at one time. So so this is how close
Speaker 6: it is. I mean, she wasn't a Menonite quote unquote
Speaker 6: when he met her, but you know, as close as
Speaker 6: you could get without being one sure.
Speaker 5: Now, on the day in question, what was happening just
Speaker 5: previous to that, involving the Mike text or a friend
Speaker 5: of Sam, the the Jan and Mike's oldest son. What
Speaker 5: were they doing previous to that? And it's very important
Speaker 5: later on in the story. So tell us that day
Speaker 5: in question, and then the evening where the two friends
Speaker 5: of Sam and his friend are backyard speaking with the parents.
Speaker 5: Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, And that's why there's a build up
Speaker 6: in the book, you know, the day before Jan was murdered,
Speaker 6: the day of Jan's murder two hours, because that's why
Speaker 6: there's this thumping metronome of how this is all building up,
Speaker 6: because it's so important to to talk about what happens
Speaker 6: that whole day. Mike and his mistress take off on
Speaker 6: a rendezvous and they end up in that apartment building
Speaker 6: most of the afternoon, having sex and having lunch and
Speaker 6: talking about when they're gonna get married and talking about
Speaker 6: the beach and white horses and white gowns and how
Speaker 6: beautiful her hair's gonna look and you know, and they're
Speaker 6: talking about all of these things, and Jan meanwhile goes
Speaker 6: into the bank us, makes a few deposits here and there,
Speaker 6: does a couple of things, runs into a friend in
Speaker 6: the bank, talks to the friend. This is all caught
Speaker 6: on you know, bank surveillance. And then Jan goes home,
Speaker 6: and then Mike goes home, and the whole family gathers
Speaker 6: at the pool for a while, and the you know,
Speaker 6: dinner time comes and they're still all at the pool
Speaker 6: for a little while, and then things get a little
Speaker 6: bit rough with with what happens. People start leaving, kids
Speaker 6: start going to sleep. Mike's son and his friends show
Speaker 6: up and see Jan and Mike in the pool together.
Speaker 6: And then Jan ends up in the bottle in the
Speaker 6: bottom of the pool a couple hours later, dead. And
Speaker 6: you know, we have some very significant pieces of evidence
Speaker 6: that come to light, uh in the coming days after that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 4: That Okay brown two, name something that's not boring.
Speaker 6: Laundry, book club, computer solitaire.
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Speaker 4: plus condition of.
Speaker 5: Retails Michael's demeanor at that time when he called nine
Speaker 5: to one. Maybe maybe you can just tell us what
Speaker 5: his call was to police and what his demeanor was like.
Speaker 5: And it's the how the story slowly unravels to reveal
Speaker 5: the truth. Tell us where it starts with his call
Speaker 5: to nine one one.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean he calls nine one one and
Speaker 6: he comes out of the uh house. He calls nine
Speaker 6: one one. Well, well, well, backtrack. He comes out of
Speaker 6: the house, he claims, comes out of the house, and
Speaker 6: he says, all the lights are on out on the
Speaker 6: back in the backyard. The tiki torches her on, and
Speaker 6: he said he fell asleep. He left Jan out in
Speaker 6: the pool areas. She was reading or watching the stars
Speaker 6: or whatever, and he left her there and he went
Speaker 6: to bed with the kids, and all of a sudden
Speaker 6: he gets up to go to the bathroom. He sees
Speaker 6: the lights are all on and he goes out there
Speaker 6: to shut the lights off, because it's very rare that
Speaker 6: she would leave the lights on. And he looks in
Speaker 6: the pool and boom, there she is. So he claims
Speaker 6: that he jumps in the pool, grabs her, pulls her
Speaker 6: to the surface. You know, she's in the deep end
Speaker 6: of the pool. He dives in, swims down, picks up
Speaker 6: this body, drags her to the side, pulls her out
Speaker 6: of the pool, and calls nine one one and says,
Speaker 6: I think my wife just drowned. He doesn't say, oh
Speaker 6: my god, oh my god, I found my wife in
Speaker 6: the bie. I don't know what's wrong. He doesn't say.
Speaker 6: He says, hello, I think my wife's just drowned. And
Speaker 6: from there, the nine one one call gets more interesting,
Speaker 6: uh after every line that he says. And I would
Speaker 6: encourage your listeners to go online and just google, you know,
Speaker 6: Michael Roseboro nine one one call and listen to it.
Speaker 6: It's online all over the place, and listen to that
Speaker 6: call in the context of, you know, the story as
Speaker 6: it unfolds in the book and and and the call
Speaker 6: is very telling to police when they hear it later.
Speaker 6: And Mike's demeanor, as you mentioned, he's very stoic, he's
Speaker 6: very calm, he's very nonchalant. I mean, it's like my
Speaker 6: wife drowned, you know, can you help me? You know?
Speaker 6: So red flags start going up all over the place.
Speaker 5: Right now, I understand that you've got to go right now?
Speaker 5: Or can you hang around for a few minutes.
Speaker 6: I can give you a couple more minutes? And then
Speaker 6: I got Then I really have I have to run.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry. I didn't know it was an hour. I
Speaker 6: thought it was a half hour. Was told so by Mikey.
Speaker 5: Probably, Well, you just let me know when you got
Speaker 5: to go. We'll ask you another question, just to get
Speaker 5: people a little bit more abreast of this fascinating story. Now,
Speaker 5: how long does it? Initially the police believe that this
Speaker 5: may be just a routine drowning. They have no obviously,
Speaker 5: this Michael Roseboro has no criminal records, so there's no
Speaker 5: initial suspicion. Suspicion, But what happened soon after and what
Speaker 5: do police conclude as a result of the We'll say
Speaker 5: the medical examiner's examination of the body tell us what
Speaker 5: the police soon conclude and where the investigation is headed towards.
Speaker 6: It's really it really starts with the ambulance ride to
Speaker 6: the hospital because the paramedics take her Jan and there's
Speaker 6: no blood or nothing anywhere. I mean, it's just her
Speaker 6: and Mike, and she's looks like maybe she drowned. I mean,
Speaker 6: they cannot a paramedic cannot call her dead at the scene.
Speaker 6: A doctor has to do that. So for all intents
Speaker 6: and purposes, she's still alive. At the scene. They're pumping
Speaker 6: or humpinger. There's no response. But so they put her
Speaker 6: into the ambulance, all right, And Mike doesn't go with her,
Speaker 6: number one in the ambulance. Number two, he doesn't even
Speaker 6: get in his own vehicle and drive to the hospital.
Speaker 6: In fact, no one in the whole entire family ends
Speaker 6: up at the hospital, but Jan by herself and the
Speaker 6: cops and some medics. Nobody now on the way the hospital.
Speaker 6: Medics are working on her in the back of the
Speaker 6: ambulance and they're pumping her chest and they're giving her CPR.
Speaker 6: What happens, what that does is it gets to heart
Speaker 6: walking again. She may be dead, but the heart's still pumping, right,
Speaker 6: And what does the heart do It pumps blood. Well,
Speaker 6: they start pumping her heart and blood starts spurting out. Basically,
Speaker 6: the back of her head because she has this big
Speaker 6: mane of blonde hair. You know, no one could see
Speaker 6: anything before blood starts coming out of the back of
Speaker 6: her head and she got this huge gash in the
Speaker 6: back of her head. Well, now we've got a different scenario. Now,
Speaker 6: you know, the autopsy comes, they do the autopsy, they
Speaker 6: peel her scalp back. Okay, they peel it back, just
Speaker 6: like a rubber mass, and the the detective is right there,
Speaker 6: and you know, I talked to him about it. He's like,
Speaker 6: I knew. I knew right there that she had been
Speaker 6: beaten savagely because you could see these white spots under
Speaker 6: her scalp, and that's an indication of trauma. And sure enough,
Speaker 6: I mean they you know, the autopsy proves that she
Speaker 6: had been severely beaten, strangled, and she had froth. She
Speaker 6: had water in her lungs, so that means means that
Speaker 6: a lot of this happened in the water, and that
Speaker 6: she drowned to death. Really she would have you know,
Speaker 6: she was beaten, but she drowned to death. And there's
Speaker 6: no blood around. There's no blood anywhere anywhere in the house,
Speaker 6: outside anywhere. And who better a person? And I think
Speaker 6: I'll end it here. Who better of a person to
Speaker 6: clean up blood than what an undertaker. So the cops,
Speaker 6: the detectives, and the detective that really investigated the case
Speaker 6: had never investigated the murder in his whole career. They
Speaker 6: begin asking questions, you know, and Mike just tells this
Speaker 6: same story over and over again. And remember, they don't
Speaker 6: know about Angie yet, they don't know about the mistress.
Speaker 6: He doesn't tell him about the mistress, but that comes
Speaker 6: out later, and you know, it's interesting how it all
Speaker 6: unfolds from there.
Speaker 5: Absolutely well. I want to thank you very much, Matthew
Speaker 5: for a very interesting of you. We could go on
Speaker 5: for a long time, and I'm hoping you're going to
Speaker 5: come back when you're not so busy and uh and
Speaker 5: grace us with your presence again on our show and
Speaker 5: a great book. And I want people to know that
Speaker 5: they've been listening to m William Phelps with his book
Speaker 5: Lover to Death.
Speaker 6: We didn't even get to my show. I have a
Speaker 6: That's why I'm so busy. I'm right in the middle
Speaker 6: right now production. I'm filming a series that I created
Speaker 6: for Investigation Discovery, which will air probably end of this year.
Speaker 6: Or beginning of next year. What's the title for that, Well,
Speaker 6: it's there's the the working titles Hunting Justice, but we'll
Speaker 6: we'll be changing that. It's it's me, uh, chasing down
Speaker 6: unsolved serial killer cases with a major a couple of
Speaker 6: major twists in there that we're keeping close to the
Speaker 6: vest at this point. But yeah, it's it's you know,
Speaker 6: with a television show, you don't just get in front
Speaker 6: of a camera and start talking. There's so much work
Speaker 6: that goes on pre production and even before the film
Speaker 6: starts rolling.
Speaker 5: That is just.
Speaker 6: Enormous.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm really looking I'm really looking forward to that
Speaker 5: because I know that this is in your blood. You're
Speaker 5: a serial killer expert. You've done so much investigative work
Speaker 5: writing these books, and I look forward to a true
Speaker 5: to life. I mean, there's so much fiction that everybody
Speaker 5: seems to be enamored, but it's really coming from the
Speaker 5: even more horrific and gruesome and surprising true crime. And
Speaker 5: so I congratulate you on this program. Even before it
Speaker 5: comes out, I look forward to watching it, and it's
Speaker 5: great to have you doing something like this. I think
Speaker 5: is very important. I could really advance the true crime
Speaker 5: genre to where you know, it's former status, and I
Speaker 5: think people are going to be looking at true stories
Speaker 5: much more seriously in the future.
Speaker 6: Well, hey, thanks Dan, and you know I'll keep you
Speaker 6: up the date and when i can announce some stuff
Speaker 6: and come back on when I'm done with the film,
Speaker 6: and I'll be glad to Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely come back on and talk about the program
Speaker 5: and talk about any new work that you're doing, So
Speaker 5: that'd be great. All right, thank you, Thank you very much, Matthew,
Speaker 5: have a good night.
Speaker 3: Okay, bye bye, bye bye, good evening, Good evening.
Speaker 2: Color.
Speaker 5: Do you have any other question you might want to ask? Well,
Speaker 5: I guess not. Anyway. What I wanted to discuss with
Speaker 5: our audience this evening is some upcoming books that I'm
Speaker 5: going to be showcasing in the very near future, especially
Speaker 5: next week. Next week's show is Michael Benson and Michael
Speaker 5: Benson is the author or co author of fifty books,
Speaker 5: including the Pinnacle true crime books, Betrayal in Blood and
Speaker 5: Hooked Up for Murder and Lethal Embrace with Robert Mahladinich.
Speaker 5: As well. He's the author of Inside Secret Societies, Who's
Speaker 5: Who in the JFK Assassination and The Complete Idiot's Guide
Speaker 5: to Nassau, National Security, the CIA, Submarines, and Modern China.
Speaker 5: His other works include presidential biographies and true crime books
Speaker 5: for young readers. The book that be featured next week
Speaker 5: is Burned Farm by Michael Benson, and in this tale,
Speaker 5: Sheila Lebarre liked to troll the personal ads and homeless
Speaker 5: shelters looking for men whom society had rejected for one
Speaker 5: reason or another, men she could easily dominate, both verbally
Speaker 5: and sexually. One by one, she invited them to her
Speaker 5: remote New Hampshire farmhouse, where she engaged them in s
Speaker 5: and m but over time sex gave way to brutal
Speaker 5: acts of torture as she mercilesslly flogged and beat her
Speaker 5: captives until they confessed to committing unspeakable acts. Once satisfied
Speaker 5: that they had paid for their sins, Sheila savagely slaughtered
Speaker 5: them and burned their remains on her farm. From the
Speaker 5: disturbing audiotapes Sheila made of her victim's confessions to her
Speaker 5: own bizarre statements in which she claimed to a return
Speaker 5: from the dead to be God's avenger. The burn Farm
Speaker 5: takes you behind the scenes of the scandal that rocked
Speaker 5: a quiet New England town and into the twisted, depraved
Speaker 5: mind of a manipulative, cold blooded murderer. That's Burn Farm
Speaker 5: with Michael Benson next week. I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 5: It is one heck of a story Burn Farm. After that,
Speaker 5: we have a number of guests that haven't been on
Speaker 5: the program as of yet. In the near future, we
Speaker 5: will be having an author named Ronald J. Watkins with
Speaker 5: his book Against Her Will, And this is talking about
Speaker 5: Richard and Victoria Tinges feared the worst when their thirteen
Speaker 5: year old daughter, Kelly Ann, vanished from their quiet suburban
Speaker 5: community of Valley Stream, New York on March third, nineteen
Speaker 5: eighty nine. The nightmare to come was worse than they
Speaker 5: could ever imagine. Only five doors away, in the home
Speaker 5: of John and Elizabeth Golub, police found Kelly Ann's body
Speaker 5: stuffed in a plastic garbage bag. She'd been brutally beaten, stabbed, strangled,
Speaker 5: and mutilated. After weeks of intense investigation, police arrested the
Speaker 5: Golob's twenty one year old son, Robert, a reclusive young
Speaker 5: man obsessed with body building and given to fits of rage.
Speaker 5: The sensational trial and subsequent conviction of Robert Golub shocked
Speaker 5: the nation and tore the once peaceful community apart. Neighbors
Speaker 5: took sides, so did the media, and no one who
Speaker 5: lived on Horton Road would ever be the same. This
Speaker 5: is acclaimed journalist Roger J. Watkins. He takes you into
Speaker 5: the dark heart of an idyllic American suburb where the
Speaker 5: savage murder of a young girl shattered the innocence of
Speaker 5: a town forever. And he's another Pinnacle author. After that,
Speaker 5: we have a person named Wensley Clarkson, and this person
Speaker 5: also goes by the pen name John Bellini spelled Joen
Speaker 5: John Bellini, and this book is called Child's Prey. The
Speaker 5: Rampage that shocked the Nation. One raging teen killer, ten
Speaker 5: innocent victims. On eight am on Wednesday, October first, nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety seven, nerdy, overweight, outcast Luke Woodham, sixteen entered his Pearl,
Speaker 5: Mississippi High School to settle some scores. Armed with a
Speaker 5: thirty thirty hunting rifle, he opened fire and then calmly
Speaker 5: walked out of the school door, leaving teenage girls dead
Speaker 5: and another seven students seriously wounded. Police soon discovered that
Speaker 5: Woodham's eleven minute rampage had actually begun hours before at home,
Speaker 5: where they found his mother, Mary Anne, brutally beaten with
Speaker 5: a baseball bat and then stabbed to death. Luke Woldham
Speaker 5: Woodham may have been the assassin behind his horrifying act,
Speaker 5: laid the shadowy hand of a twisted mastermind. Grant boy
Speaker 5: at eighteen, Bible student turned hitler, lover and devil worshiper,
Speaker 5: was a diabolical pied piper who used a fantasy role
Speaker 5: playing game to program six high school students with hate, satanism,
Speaker 5: and animal torture. Those were the chilling words of Luke Woodham.
Speaker 5: Murder is gutsy and daring. Now he is serving three
Speaker 5: consecutive life sentences. The horror he unleashed serves as a
Speaker 5: disturbing reminder of today's shocking epidemic of high school shootings
Speaker 5: and that the one place America's kids are supposed to
Speaker 5: be safe has become the most dangerous place of all.
Speaker 5: That's child's prey. With John Bellini. At the end of
Speaker 5: this month, one raging team killer, ten innocent victims, the
Speaker 5: rampage that shocked the nation. After that, we are going
Speaker 5: to have a book. Who discussed a book called King
Speaker 5: of the Godfathers by Anthony M. D'estefano. This was previously
Speaker 5: published as the Last Godfather. This is another Pinnacle title,
Speaker 5: The Deadliest Mafia don of them All, King of the Godfathers,
Speaker 5: Big Joey Massino and the Fall of the Banano crime Family.
Speaker 5: So it's something I normally don't do, but I'm going
Speaker 5: to be doing a lot more of I have written.
Speaker 5: Pardon me. I've read a lot of true crime books
Speaker 5: involving organized crime, and I want to get some of
Speaker 5: these storytellers on the program because some of these books
Speaker 5: are just fascinating when you get the real story, not
Speaker 5: so much the Hollywood story of how these people really lived,
Speaker 5: and the true and horrific stories behind some of these
Speaker 5: not so much serial killers, but definitely mass murderers. So
Speaker 5: that's going to be Anthony M. D'estefano and the King
Speaker 5: of the Godfathers. For more than twenty years, Joseph Big
Speaker 5: Joe Massino ran what was called the largest criminal network
Speaker 5: in the US, employing over two hundred and fifty made
Speaker 5: men and untold numbers of associates. The Bonano family was
Speaker 5: responsible for over thirty murders, even killing a dozen of
Speaker 5: its own members to enforce discipline and settle scores. He
Speaker 5: would be brought down by Salvatory Good look in sal Vitally,
Speaker 5: the underboss, who was not only Messino's closest and most
Speaker 5: trusted friend, but also his brother in law. In the end,
Speaker 5: facing the death penalty in the prospect of leaving his
Speaker 5: family penniless, Massino started talking to the FBI, the first
Speaker 5: mafia godfather to break the sacred code of omerata omar omerta,
Speaker 5: pardon me, and the end of a century's old tradition.
Speaker 5: This book is written by Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Anthony M.
Speaker 5: De Stefano, who interviewed Massino's family and friends, as well
Speaker 5: as law former law enforcement officials, and confidential sources. King
Speaker 5: of the Godfathers is the story of the brutal mob
Speaker 5: war that made Messino head of the Bonano family and
Speaker 5: the most powerful gangster in America. Another author that we'll
Speaker 5: be dealing with in the near future, I'm hoping, is
Speaker 5: Aphrodite Jones, a New York Times bestselling author very familiar
Speaker 5: to most people reading True Crown and are familiar with
Speaker 5: Aphrodite Jones. This is a book called Cruel Sacrifice from
Speaker 5: a few years ago, Teen Girls, Mean Girls, Killer Girls,
Speaker 5: Cruel Sacrifice by Aphrodite Aphrodite Jones. We've had a guest
Speaker 5: named Burl Bear on and he ended up being one
Speaker 5: of the Encore programs because it's because he's such a
Speaker 5: great interview. Burl Bear with his Edgar Award winner. He's
Speaker 5: an Edgar Award winner, and his book that we would
Speaker 5: be discussing in the near future is Fatal Beauty. She
Speaker 5: was a rodeo star, a seductress, and a killer, and
Speaker 5: that Fatal Beauty by Edgar Award winner Burl Bear should
Speaker 5: have him on in the next oh six weeks eight
Speaker 5: weeks or so after that, I got a particularly interesting
Speaker 5: book from Pinnacle as well. It's called The Measure of
Speaker 5: Madness Inside the Disturbed and Disturbing Criminal Mind by Cheryl
Speaker 5: Parody and it's got a forward by the very famous
Speaker 5: Catherine Ramsland. So this is the Measure of Madness Inside
Speaker 5: the Disturbed and Disturbing Criminal Mind. A forensic psychologist reveals
Speaker 5: the dark and troubling human mind the measure of Madness.
Speaker 5: So I'm having a little bit of a hard time
Speaker 5: getting hold of her, just because the website does not
Speaker 5: lead me to be able to leave a message for her,
Speaker 5: but by hooker by Crook, I'll be able to get
Speaker 5: a hold of her through Pinnacle and we'll have an
Speaker 5: interview with Cheryl Parody very soon after that. We have
Speaker 5: another author named Ron Francell that a lot of people
Speaker 5: might be familiar with, and his latest book Delivered from Evil.
Speaker 5: And Delivered from Evil is accounts from survivors of mass
Speaker 5: murder who have lived to tell the story. So it's
Speaker 5: written from a little different perspective and be very interesting
Speaker 5: to talk to Ron Francell. He is the author of
Speaker 5: quite a few true crime books. One of the most
Speaker 5: popular is called The Darkest Night by Ron Francell. So
Speaker 5: tune in in April. I think it's April thirteenth for
Speaker 5: Ron Francell. As we discussed his book, Delivered from Evil
Speaker 5: sounds very interesting.
Speaker 3: We have.
Speaker 5: Kevin Sullivan is going to come back on the show
Speaker 5: and talk about his book, Bundy Murders. We had him
Speaker 5: on very early on in the show last year, but
Speaker 5: I found that not enough people had a chance to
Speaker 5: listen to the interview. And because Bundy is one of
Speaker 5: the if not well, one of the most fascinating serial
Speaker 5: killers and most fascinating deviant human minds that the world
Speaker 5: has ever known. I think it deserves to have Kevin
Speaker 5: come back on and talk about the Bundy murders again,
Speaker 5: because it's a fascinating book and Bundy is a fascinating
Speaker 5: case for all those people that think they know about
Speaker 5: Ted Bundy. There have been a few books, of course,
Speaker 5: the classic Stranger Beside Me by Anne Rule, written by
Speaker 5: the person that worked and was friends with Ted Bundy,
Speaker 5: so it's an incredible, incredible story that she was that
Speaker 5: close to one of the worst killers on the face
Speaker 5: of the earth. Kevin Sullivan has a different approach and
Speaker 5: has uncovered some information that wasn't found maybe thirty years ago,
Speaker 5: and has done some more investigative work and obviously presents
Speaker 5: a different perspective to the Bundy story. But of course
Speaker 5: the crimes that Bundy committed are obviously included and spoken
Speaker 5: about in his book as well. But Ted Bundy deserves
Speaker 5: as many programs as anybody would want to talk about
Speaker 5: because he's such a fascinating an example of the criminal mind.
Speaker 5: For those that have been looking at the show page
Speaker 5: and wondering where and where is the Terry Sullivan interview
Speaker 5: that John Wayne Gacy story the Killer Clown. I apologize
Speaker 5: for even if I'm misleading people about having Terry Sullivan on.
Speaker 5: It's just that the interview was scheduled, then postponed, then rescheduled,
Speaker 5: and it's just Terry has a very busy law practice,
Speaker 5: and he's a practicing lawyer and owns his business and
Speaker 5: so his time is very precious and had to a
Speaker 5: couple times reschedule or cancel at the last minute. But
Speaker 5: I promise you and I assure you that Terry is
Speaker 5: very interested in coming on the program and discussing Killer Clown.
Speaker 5: The book. I think that is just a true crime
Speaker 5: classic and that everyone should go out and read this book.
Speaker 5: Killer Clown is just an incredible book, one of my,
Speaker 5: if not my favorite true crime book of all time.
Speaker 5: Killer Clown John Wayne Gacy, by the prosecutor and the
Speaker 5: author of the definitive story about John Wayne Gacy, Killer Clown. So, anyway,
Speaker 5: we will have Terry Sullivan, the prosecutor of John Wayne Gacy,
Speaker 5: on the program and some point in the near future,
Speaker 5: I promise you, and it'll be one heck of a program.
Speaker 5: And do not miss it, absolutely not. Well, we have
Speaker 5: about ten minutes left. I'm going to also say that
Speaker 5: I want to thank everyone that's listening to me. Sometimes
Speaker 5: stumble through some things and some rough beginnings, but I
Speaker 5: want to thank the people that routinely and regularly and
Speaker 5: even people have just come on to listening to the
Speaker 5: show in the last little while. I want to thank
Speaker 5: you all for listening because the program now has turned
Speaker 5: into a bona fide hit, with about thirty five thousand
Speaker 5: people listening and downloading programs each and every month since
Speaker 5: around October. We had about twenty five thousand in October,
Speaker 5: so now we're up about thirty five thousand and always
Speaker 5: per month, growing with a few new people, more people
Speaker 5: becoming following the program, and more people contacting me and
Speaker 5: commenting on the programs themselves. Feel free to contact me
Speaker 5: too about any books that you have read and you
Speaker 5: found fascinating that I might not know about. I certainly
Speaker 5: try to keep up, but there are so many great
Speaker 5: stories by great authors that I haven't heard about. Keep
Speaker 5: in mind, though, I mean, I would want to know
Speaker 5: about any story that you thought was really, really good
Speaker 5: and warranted being on the program, But lots of the
Speaker 5: authors would like to come on and talk about their
Speaker 5: latest release. So especially if you read something that's fairly
Speaker 5: new and you really are moved by that book, please
Speaker 5: contact me. I will take the word and a good
Speaker 5: explanation on why this program should I should discuss this
Speaker 5: book on my program. I will do the necessary research
Speaker 5: to see if it fits, in which any really good
Speaker 5: book about murder will certainly qualify for this program. So
Speaker 5: please give me your ideas and suggestions and I'll be
Speaker 5: more than happy to check those out and see what
Speaker 5: we can do and getting some of those authors that
Speaker 5: you find really fascinating to come on the program and
Speaker 5: talk about their works. So I appreciate again everybody's participation
Speaker 5: in making this show a hit, and that is why
Speaker 5: we're getting the caliber of why this program is getting
Speaker 5: the caliber of authors that we are getting. Ron Francel,
Speaker 5: we just had listened to m William Phelps and as
Speaker 5: you noticed, he didn't realize he said that the program
Speaker 5: was an hour He's going to come on again and
Speaker 5: talk about his program is a television program where my prediction,
Speaker 5: I think has come true. I've been talking for a
Speaker 5: couple of years that the only thing left in television
Speaker 5: is the true story. And there's so many fascinating authors
Speaker 5: with so many incredible stories that the amount of plots
Speaker 5: and stories that they could do in well done true
Speaker 5: crime formatted show. If people are interested in fiction, and
Speaker 5: all the fiction really comes from nonfiction from some of
Speaker 5: these stories, I think that the next thing that viewers
Speaker 5: will be really interested in is true crime stories brought
Speaker 5: to television and brought to film. So I really applaud
Speaker 5: m William Phelps Matthew for his work because he's really
Speaker 5: a successful true crime author. He's a great writer. I
Speaker 5: think with his book he's pushing the boundaries of having
Speaker 5: a running commentary throughout the book is unusual. I think
Speaker 5: it's good to break whatever rules you feel are necessary
Speaker 5: to break in this genre, just making sure that you're
Speaker 5: bringing to the public interesting stories and well written and
Speaker 5: that's what we get. A lot of our true crime
Speaker 5: fans are constantly looking for the next fascinating story, and
Speaker 5: by virtue of these remorseless psychopathic killers and the crazy
Speaker 5: stories and circumstances that we live in, we're getting these
Speaker 5: fascinating stories month after month and year after year, and
Speaker 5: there are many many people lining up good writers to
Speaker 5: write these stories, to chronicle of these tales, and to
Speaker 5: have these stories told and known throughout the world as
Speaker 5: they surely should be. So again I want to thank
Speaker 5: you very much for listening to the program, and I
Speaker 5: want you to tune in next week for Michael Benson
Speaker 5: with his book Burn Farm. And after that we will
Speaker 5: have Ronald Jay Watkins Against Her Will, and we will
Speaker 5: have The King of the Godfathers by Anthony M. DeStefano,
Speaker 5: and we will have ron francel with Delivered from Evil.
Speaker 5: And so in the next six weeks, please tune in
Speaker 5: and listen to the programs, and any comments and any
Speaker 5: suggestions are absolutely well received and welcome. So I want
Speaker 5: to bid everybody a good evening and thank you very
Speaker 5: much for listening, and join me next week for True Murder,
Speaker 5: the most shocking killers in true crime history and the
Speaker 5: authors that have written about them. Have a good evening,
Speaker 5: Good night,