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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for tuning in to another show in the next

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<v Speaker 1>Real family of film podcasts, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Want to skip those ads and get early.

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<v Speaker 1>Access, become a member at true story dot fm, slash Joint,

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<v Speaker 1>and discover all the other great perks that come with it.

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<v Speaker 2>The film board gathers. The Gang of Thugs is here

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<v Speaker 2>to take on a movie currently in theaters and this month.

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<v Speaker 2>What if someone you loved became something else? What if

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<v Speaker 2>that loved one became something else? After locking you all

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<v Speaker 2>in Oregon together? Forget full moons and silver bullets. Lee

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<v Speaker 2>one LL's latest Universal remake, wolf Man, is a story

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<v Speaker 2>of family drama, generational trauma, and oh yeah, turning into

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<v Speaker 2>a terrifying Wolfman monster thing. It's part horror, part body horror,

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<v Speaker 2>part marriage horror, and part parenting horror. All of it's

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<v Speaker 2>gone horribly horribly wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, could anyone hear me?

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<v Speaker 2>WHOA, we were in an accident.

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<v Speaker 3>Daddy, we're gonna die. No, it's my job to protect.

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<v Speaker 1>You and we we were at to act.

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<v Speaker 2>I think my husband was infected. What daddy, daddy? What's

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<v Speaker 2>wrong with daddy?

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<v Speaker 1>She got sick?

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<v Speaker 3>What is happening to me?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you understand me? You're you're hearing you're scaring me.

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<v Speaker 2>That is me, Hurry, Mommy is coming. I'd beat right

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<v Speaker 2>in joining me to mark their territory all over this film.

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<v Speaker 2>Or Tommy meets the Third and Steve Sarmento Hello, gents, Hello, Hello,

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<v Speaker 2>A rude to you. The transformation from stay at home

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<v Speaker 2>dad to feral beast raises some questions. Can you protect

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<v Speaker 2>your family when you are the danger? Does the film's

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<v Speaker 2>emotional bite match its monster mayhem? Or is the reboot

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<v Speaker 2>all bark and no bite. It's a real doggy dog World,

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<v Speaker 2>don't you agree, Tom, Doggy Dog World. That's right, Doggy

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<v Speaker 2>Dog Classic.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's let's get some just opening thoughts. Where where do

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<v Speaker 2>I feel? I feel like I want to start with

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<v Speaker 2>Tom because Steve comes into the meeting tonight having renamed

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<v Speaker 2>himself not Steve Sarmento, but Sad Steve, and that scares me.

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<v Speaker 2>So I like to start with somebody who I think knows.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I know where he's coming from on the movie,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you?

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<v Speaker 3>I was not excited about this movie until I found

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<v Speaker 3>out who directed it, because, as I've mentioned maybe before,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not a huge wolf person, wolfman person, or traditional

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<v Speaker 3>universal monster person but this guy lay one out lay

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<v Speaker 3>one l I've always said Lee Lee Lee Weel directed

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<v Speaker 3>the Invisible Man remake, which was outstanding, so that made

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<v Speaker 3>me really excited for this. I wanted to see if

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<v Speaker 3>this would be a sort of a reconstructed, deconstructed horror

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<v Speaker 3>movie that's really about something else instead of just turning

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<v Speaker 3>into wolves. So with that, I was looking forward to it.

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<v Speaker 3>And yeah, that's how I went into this movie. Overall,

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<v Speaker 3>I think this movie has two really really outstanding ideas,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's more than some movies have. Is that enough?

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<v Speaker 3>Is that enough to warrant the entire screen time? I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not exactly sure. I think it got some things really

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<v Speaker 3>right in some things were lacking enough where I was

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<v Speaker 3>a little disappointed because the parts that were good made

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<v Speaker 3>me want the parts that were lacking to be so

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<v Speaker 3>much better.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh so I'm right there. I'm right there with

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<v Speaker 1>Tommy because I knew this was part of that Lumhouse.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to reconceive these universal classic monster movies and

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to really present them different. I love Invisible Man,

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<v Speaker 1>so I thought, Okay, I'm looking for this reinvention. I

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<v Speaker 1>know I'm not going to get the traditional wolf Man,

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<v Speaker 1>which I was fine with. I do love the nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>forty one. The wolf Man's my favorite classic monster movies,

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<v Speaker 1>so I knew I wasn't going to get that I

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<v Speaker 1>was going to get a twist on it. So I

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<v Speaker 1>was really intrigued by what would be that end to

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<v Speaker 1>that story. What is that twist that they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>do that's going to allow them to leverage that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of mythology of that wolfman, you know, dual nature of man.

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<v Speaker 1>Do something with that. And I there were some there

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<v Speaker 1>were some parts of this that I really enjoyed. There's

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<v Speaker 1>some sequences that really, wow, this is I like this direction.

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<v Speaker 1>I liked some of these things. But ultimately, by the

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<v Speaker 1>time I left the movie.

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<v Speaker 3>I was very sad.

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<v Speaker 1>And then as I read a little bit more about

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<v Speaker 1>what the writers were trying to do with this story,

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<v Speaker 1>the spin they were trying to take, I got actually

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<v Speaker 1>angry with this film because I have some strong feelings

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<v Speaker 1>about what they felt they were trying to say with this,

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<v Speaker 1>and I have sharp disagreement with that. So I've said

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<v Speaker 1>and angry about this film. Sad and angry, Yeah, sangry, Wow, angry.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't read anything about this movie, so I'm just

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<v Speaker 3>skipping around, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I so I went into it. I think maybe I was.

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<v Speaker 2>I was ambivalent going into it. I wasn't not excited

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<v Speaker 2>about it. I be in HVISI Man was great, obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>Leewan l I like and and so I was excited

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<v Speaker 2>to see what he could do revisioning this this property,

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<v Speaker 2>just because I've watched a bunch of other Wolfman movies

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<v Speaker 2>and I tend to be a fan of a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of more recent ones. When animals dream, ginger snaps, I

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<v Speaker 2>like very much, And so I like the idea. And

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<v Speaker 2>I also like that the fact that that werewolves are

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<v Speaker 2>just such a easy metaphor for so many different kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of things. And I think that's where this movie sets

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<v Speaker 2>up a lot right right that. You know, we have

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<v Speaker 2>themes of parenthood and family and generational trauma and loss

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<v Speaker 2>of humanity and identity, and of course we've got survival

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<v Speaker 2>and sort of the Sophie's Choice, uh kind of stuff

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<v Speaker 2>in here in an isolated, sort of confined space. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I like all of that stuff, All of the intention

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<v Speaker 2>around those big themes absolutely hit home with me. And

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if there's a single one of them

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<v Speaker 2>that I feel like made good on its promise in

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<v Speaker 2>the setup of the movie, and that's the disappointment. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think I'm sad or angry. I'm not sangry. I

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<v Speaker 2>am disappointed that I feel like the movie had so

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<v Speaker 2>much promise and ended up being ultimately a little bit empty.

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<v Speaker 2>That it would be a terrible movie if it were

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<v Speaker 2>not for a few really interesting things that they did

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<v Speaker 2>with the actual making of it that I loved. Like there,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like blown back in my seat watching some

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<v Speaker 2>of the choices that they made. And I know we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to talk about those in a little bit, but first,

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<v Speaker 2>if you will indulge me a brief overview of the story. Blake,

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<v Speaker 2>a writer and stay at home father living in San Francisco,

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<v Speaker 2>inherits his childhood home in a place I like to

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<v Speaker 2>call rural Oregon in name only, Reino. After his estranged

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<v Speaker 2>father is presumed dead. Blake's having a tough time at

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<v Speaker 2>home and wants to use this trip to visit his

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<v Speaker 2>dead dad's place to reconnect with his wife Charlotte and

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<v Speaker 2>daughter Ginger. They don't think it's a good idea, but

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<v Speaker 2>narrative propels them all to Roino anyway. As they approach

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<v Speaker 2>the farmhouse at night, they are attacked by an unseen creature.

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<v Speaker 2>Because sometimes this movie goes hard on pace. The family

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<v Speaker 2>foreshadowingly barricades themselves inside together and Blake begins to exhibit

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<v Speaker 2>strange behavior. Charlotte has just start doing a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>work around the house because her husband does an increasing

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<v Speaker 2>amount of sitting about and eventually licking and chewing on himself.

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<v Speaker 2>That is the story of wolf Man.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not bad. You're exactly right, yep, well play.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh so, let's let's dig in just just a bit

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<v Speaker 2>on some of those themes, because I want to hear Steve,

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<v Speaker 2>what pissed you off so hard?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you want me just go angry?

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<v Speaker 2>Holl on it.

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<v Speaker 3>Wolf men aren't real?

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<v Speaker 2>So wolf aren't real?

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<v Speaker 3>Aren't real?

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<v Speaker 2>About point of order?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so it started with so I have to get

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<v Speaker 1>into the movie a little bit one of the twists,

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<v Speaker 1>and we can talk about pot points all that, but

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<v Speaker 1>I felt by the end of the movie we had

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<v Speaker 1>a sense that Blake had lost his humanity, and Pete,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you alluded to that, and there's various ways

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<v Speaker 1>in which that happens, which we can discuss later. But

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<v Speaker 1>to get to my point about angry. So at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the movie, he's lost his humanity. So that

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<v Speaker 1>when I read that Whenell said in the story they

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<v Speaker 1>were inspired by a close friend's battle with als, which

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<v Speaker 1>took away her mobility and ability to communicate in a long,

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<v Speaker 1>slow process, it was terrifying to watch, thinking, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a movie about people with a disease like that where

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<v Speaker 1>communication can break down, or Alzheimer's dementia, things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>And to then extend that metaphor to say, oh, when

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<v Speaker 1>that happens to you, you are losing your humanity. You

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<v Speaker 1>are becoming a monster. That is very problematic to me,

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<v Speaker 1>because if Blake had kept his humanity and had a barrier,

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<v Speaker 1>he could not overcome. But we lose all sense of

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<v Speaker 1>who he is. We don't see his perspective anymore, so

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know what his thoughts are, we don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what his motives are, so he becomes monster less than human.

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<v Speaker 1>And to say that someone suffering from one of these

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<v Speaker 1>horrible diseases loses their humanity because of their inability to

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<v Speaker 1>communicate is really offensive to me and makes me very angry.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's really interesting, and it gets to the

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<v Speaker 2>visual conceit that the movie uses to define perspective that

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<v Speaker 2>I was so blown away by Oh I loved it, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's equally frustrating. So we're at Tom, do you

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<v Speaker 2>want to describe it? You liked it too, right? We

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<v Speaker 2>texted about this part.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, wolf eyes, wolf vision, I don't know what to

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<v Speaker 3>call it, but yeah, when we start to see from

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<v Speaker 3>his perspective, he's able to classic Wolfman stuff, like he

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<v Speaker 3>smells things that no one else is able to smell.

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<v Speaker 3>All of his senses are heightened. But then visually, his

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<v Speaker 3>ability to see in the dark is greatly enhanced, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's almost sort of like this. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 3>it's infrared, but it's like that you see like light traces,

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<v Speaker 3>you know. He can There was one time when I

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<v Speaker 3>thought it was too much. Was the spider? I thought

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<v Speaker 3>it was it was too much because it was just

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<v Speaker 3>like the spiders are too loud, Like it's like someone

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<v Speaker 3>like pushing over a bunch of paint cans. And it

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<v Speaker 3>turns out he's just looking at a spider, yeah, with

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<v Speaker 3>a boombox, so that, you know. But the afilion to see,

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<v Speaker 3>to hear, see, smell out things is really graphically well played.

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<v Speaker 3>Not graphically visually in ways that we haven't had a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Usually it's a lot of sniffing and it's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of hearing, and we can talk about the sound design

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<v Speaker 3>for this movie, but yeah, to be able to in

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<v Speaker 3>one shot, we will see the perspective of what the

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<v Speaker 3>family is seeing in their limited abilities and what is

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<v Speaker 3>he seeing in his heightened abilities, And it really makes

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<v Speaker 3>for a great comparison.

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<v Speaker 2>And the transition the first time they used that trick

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<v Speaker 2>was brilliant. It was suddenly, we're speaking Russian in red

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<v Speaker 2>October right like. It was a really neat bit of

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<v Speaker 2>awareness that you didn't know you were in his perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's why he suddenly couldn't you know, his family

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't talking to him anymore, even as he was talking

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<v Speaker 2>to them. I thought that was such a fantastic reveal.

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<v Speaker 2>The problem I have with it when you talk about

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<v Speaker 2>promises that they did not make good on, is exactly

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<v Speaker 2>to your point, Steve. I would have loved it if

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<v Speaker 2>we'd had a diving bell in the butterfly experience, where

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<v Speaker 2>he is trapped in this perspective and he still deeply

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<v Speaker 2>wants to communicate but can't, and the rage is that

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<v Speaker 2>metaphor for werewolf, you know, the werewolf monster, because otherwise

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<v Speaker 2>you're right, he loses everything and the metaphor falls apart.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I would have been frustrated by

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<v Speaker 2>it had I not read the same thing you did,

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<v Speaker 2>like what they had said. Had I not known any

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<v Speaker 2>of that, I probably wouldn't have given it much thought

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<v Speaker 2>other than wouldn't it have been cool? But the fact

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<v Speaker 2>is that to know that was kind of intentional and

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<v Speaker 2>not seeing the other side of what that communicates, I

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<v Speaker 2>think is hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that's what made me sad walking out of

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<v Speaker 1>the movie at first. Was I put in my notes,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, Blake has lost his humanity apparently, but I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know when that happens in his transformation, or if

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<v Speaker 1>we were to assume that, are we to assume that

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<v Speaker 1>he does maintain his humanity Because of the final moment

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<v Speaker 1>where the daughter communicates what she senses he is thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that's accurate or not, And I

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<v Speaker 1>think maybe I'm to assume that, but I haven't been

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<v Speaker 1>given enough along the way to really solidify that that

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<v Speaker 1>there's a deeper understanding of what he's trying to do.

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<v Speaker 1>By the daughter and we as an audience have no

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<v Speaker 1>sense of why he's acting certain ways. If we could

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<v Speaker 1>get into his perspective, it is that I need to

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<v Speaker 1>tell you something, or I'm trying to get you to

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<v Speaker 1>someplace safe, or I'm trying to push you away from

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<v Speaker 1>me because of these these urges I'm having, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to gnaw on flesh or whatever that is, and we don't,

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<v Speaker 1>we just it just becomes monster versus you know, final

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<v Speaker 1>girl and daughter running through the woods. And I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know why we are given that other than that is

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<v Speaker 1>the tropes of the genre as oh, you're getting chased

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<v Speaker 1>by the monster. But I had been built up to expect, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>this shifting perspective. It was a great balance back and

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<v Speaker 1>forth of their frustration, his frustration or overcoming this barrier

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<v Speaker 1>of how do we fix this? And we've got a

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<v Speaker 1>ticking clock of you know, is this getting worse? We're

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<v Speaker 1>in a confined space. All those great moments to come

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<v Speaker 1>to a boiling point of something and to just cop out.

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<v Speaker 3>At the end.

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<v Speaker 1>It made me very sad because it could have been

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<v Speaker 1>so powerful.

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<v Speaker 3>But he doesn't spend a lot of time just hunting them, right,

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<v Speaker 3>He's protecting them for mostly from the ogol. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's his fatherly, that that's the humanity that's there.

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<v Speaker 3>I do agree with Steve that it's it's like, at

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<v Speaker 3>some point it feels like there is a missing part

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<v Speaker 3>of this movie. You see him after he's he gets

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<v Speaker 3>almost pulled under the door by og wolf monster, and

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<v Speaker 3>then he has some sort of like a weird fit,

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<v Speaker 3>and then they do a practical thing where all the

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<v Speaker 3>lights go out and he is Then that's very cool.

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<v Speaker 3>But then when we're next a lot has happened, and

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<v Speaker 3>it seems like, why was that off screen? He has

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<v Speaker 3>now lost the ability to understand any language he is

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<v Speaker 3>writing that he's dying. I mean that just seemed like

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<v Speaker 3>a pretty key part to be able to see the

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<v Speaker 3>warping of things.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw it two days ago, Tom check me out

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<v Speaker 2>on order of things because the og door event happens,

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<v Speaker 2>lights go down, when he wakes up, he's on the

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<v Speaker 2>couch he's been sleeping, and then he makes his way

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<v Speaker 2>downstairs to hear his wife on the ham radio. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>is that the next thing that happens? I think that

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<v Speaker 2>sounds right, Yes, yes, yes, So I walked out with

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<v Speaker 2>that question of how long was he asleep because clearly,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is what gets to I think the movie's

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<v Speaker 2>sort of divergence from lore, which is this it seems

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<v Speaker 2>to be treating this disease, wolf face disease as a

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<v Speaker 2>disease or an infection, something that can be spread through

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00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:33.840
<v Speaker 2>cuts obviously, and not through any you know, timey wymy

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<v Speaker 2>cycle of the moon stuff anymore. We're just this is

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<v Speaker 2>just what happens when you get sick in Oregon.

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<v Speaker 3>Which I really liked when I said there are two

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00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.440
<v Speaker 3>great ideas in the movie. One of them for me

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00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:48.840
<v Speaker 3>is making this a bottle episode that not having you

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<v Speaker 3>go through days and days of I think I can

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00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:53.960
<v Speaker 3>smell with that Spider's thinking or whatever. Having it sped

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00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:58.679
<v Speaker 3>up so fast made it really compelling to me. Now

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<v Speaker 3>I know I'm talking outside of my mouth because I said,

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00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.120
<v Speaker 3>sped it up so fast, great job. But there also

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00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.480
<v Speaker 3>is a function. There's a part of the movie missing

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00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.559
<v Speaker 3>that seems like they Tyler durdin it that like so

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00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.759
<v Speaker 3>much happens apparently when he's asleep, that all a project

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<v Speaker 3>mayhem happens.

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00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well I took that as I mean, yeah, we

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00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.359
<v Speaker 1>need to cut out some time so that I'm assuming

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00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:21.559
<v Speaker 1>since it all takes place overnight, and I want to

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00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:24.319
<v Speaker 1>say it's it's maybe an hour or two at most

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00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:27.599
<v Speaker 1>that it could could possibly be. So I took that as,

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00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, that's the virus acting, you know, so that

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00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:32.480
<v Speaker 1>when he wakes up, we don't have that he's lost

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00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.599
<v Speaker 1>that sense of progression of slowly, although we do get

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<v Speaker 1>a hint of it earlier on when he's barricading the

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<v Speaker 1>door and he turns and talks to his wife and

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<v Speaker 1>he talks to his daughter and they're just sort of

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<v Speaker 1>looking at him.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, which we find out later it's because he's speaking Russian.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's speaking. And the other aspect that I thought

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00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe you were alluding to Tommy about two aspects of

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00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.279
<v Speaker 1>this is it's the fact that it's the return to

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00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.599
<v Speaker 1>his home and the movie starts with the whole thing

319
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:03.039
<v Speaker 1>with his his father and all that we know he's conflicted,

320
00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:05.000
<v Speaker 1>and he has that speech to his daughter about sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>you know, his parents were so focused on protecting our

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<v Speaker 1>kids from the things that scar them that we become

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00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.599
<v Speaker 1>the things that end up doing the scarring. About his

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00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:16.319
<v Speaker 1>relationship with his father, the fact that I mean we

325
00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:17.880
<v Speaker 1>can get into I don't know how much of a

326
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.480
<v Speaker 1>spoiler this is but og Wolf is his father, so

327
00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.240
<v Speaker 1>everything coming back to where he grew up. The source

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00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.720
<v Speaker 1>of this infection is his father. It's all this fear

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<v Speaker 1>of am I becoming my father? Am I creating this

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<v Speaker 1>barrier between me.

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<v Speaker 3>And my child?

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<v Speaker 1>Aspect of that I thought was, you know, before I

333
00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:39.000
<v Speaker 1>read about disease things, I thought, oh, this guy is

334
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.960
<v Speaker 1>returning to his home. He's becoming more in touch with

335
00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:44.799
<v Speaker 1>who his you know, who he was raised to be,

336
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:48.000
<v Speaker 1>his roots. Because we have that friction between the wife

337
00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:51.519
<v Speaker 1>and him, which is really ill defined about what that

338
00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:53.440
<v Speaker 1>friction is in their marriage. But now that he's back

339
00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:56.200
<v Speaker 1>to who he is, he's sort of embracing this is

340
00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.480
<v Speaker 1>my true identity, which is going to create more in

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00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the marriage. And I thought that's an interesting metaphor, but

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<v Speaker 1>again I don't have Once he kills og Wolf aka Dad,

343
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.880
<v Speaker 1>according to my notes that I took as I was

344
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<v Speaker 1>watching this, that's when we no longer see his perspective anymore.

345
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<v Speaker 1>We no longer see anything from Break's point of view

346
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<v Speaker 1>because he's become his father, fully animal, fully defiant, whatever,

347
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:23.960
<v Speaker 1>and so we don't know what he's thinking, and he's

348
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.279
<v Speaker 1>lost that humanity because he's become we're all, you know,

349
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:31.680
<v Speaker 1>crazy woodsman guy living off the grit. He's fully embraced

350
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<v Speaker 1>that by killing the father.

351
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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's there's no there's no real functional book of

352
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:40.160
<v Speaker 2>the vampire in this like there's no real exposition dump

353
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:46.240
<v Speaker 2>in the middle that explains what's happening. But I think that's,

354
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:50.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, that comes from sort of internalized lore. Once

355
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:54.039
<v Speaker 2>you actually exercise your new abilities by you know, your

356
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.880
<v Speaker 2>first kill really cements it. And now you're a werewolf.

357
00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:00.960
<v Speaker 2>We kind of know that, right. Do we have any

358
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:06.680
<v Speaker 2>idea on because there are actually three wolf's men in

359
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.720
<v Speaker 2>this movie. We know our protagonist Blake is a wolfman.

360
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:13.960
<v Speaker 2>We also know that Dad is now a wolf man.

361
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<v Speaker 2>But arguably there's a very long yeah, there's a ooh yeah,

362
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.599
<v Speaker 2>no o g wolfman from the beginning that Dad and

363
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:27.079
<v Speaker 2>young Blake were out hunting. Who was that?

364
00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:29.759
<v Speaker 3>He was the hiker that went missing?

365
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the hiker that went missing in the That's that's

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<v Speaker 1>what I assumed.

367
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<v Speaker 2>That was the opening title card, right, that was what

368
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I was assuming too. But I thought, maybe the movie's

369
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.400
<v Speaker 2>getting a little cheeky and it's actually Grandpa. What do

370
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:44.880
<v Speaker 2>they want me to believe? Because it's so circular, right, Like,

371
00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:48.279
<v Speaker 2>this comes back to the exact same thing in the

372
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<v Speaker 2>in the Deer Blind that happens to the beginning in

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning happens at the end. But this time she

374
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:58.839
<v Speaker 2>closes the loop, right she does. The werewolf doesn't get away.

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<v Speaker 2>And when you think about what her taking action, what

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00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:06.359
<v Speaker 2>does that represent closing the loop? Had dad closed the

377
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.920
<v Speaker 2>loop before, the entire family lineage would change in ways.

378
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<v Speaker 2>So there's some interesting stuff going on there.

379
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:14.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh there is, yeah, that.

380
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<v Speaker 3>And it sounds better how you just did it than

381
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<v Speaker 3>I think it was portrayed. I think one of the

382
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:25.240
<v Speaker 3>things that's missing is some pretty serious chemistry with this

383
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.519
<v Speaker 3>family that usually you not do a bottle episode until

384
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.599
<v Speaker 3>you have really defined all of your relationships because then

385
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.079
<v Speaker 3>by definition, you can sit them down in a room

386
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.559
<v Speaker 3>and have them all talk. To your point. You already said,

387
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.599
<v Speaker 3>we don't know nothing. We don't know nothing. We don't

388
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.720
<v Speaker 3>know anything about this marriage. We do so little about

389
00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:49.119
<v Speaker 3>I mean, she says, I don't know how to talk

390
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.599
<v Speaker 3>to my daughter. Okay, so thanks for telling us that

391
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.039
<v Speaker 3>and not showing us. They have no chemistry. Husband and

392
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.000
<v Speaker 3>wife has almost no chemistry. There's not a lot to

393
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:04.200
<v Speaker 3>root for in this story about families falling apart in

394
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:09.200
<v Speaker 3>generational trauma. That one scene with him and his daughter

395
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:10.720
<v Speaker 3>when he's like, I'm sorry, I don't want to be

396
00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.920
<v Speaker 3>my dad, Like, it's pretty telegraph. There's a lot of

397
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:19.000
<v Speaker 3>telling in this movie. Yeah, for as quick as it moves,

398
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.200
<v Speaker 3>sometimes there's also a lot of time just sort of spent,

399
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.119
<v Speaker 3>and it needed to be more. I think maybe this

400
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.400
<v Speaker 3>movie was potentially miscast and I don't know why, but

401
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:33.240
<v Speaker 3>there's just not a real There's no electricity between all

402
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:38.559
<v Speaker 3>three characters. I believe that they're a family, and I

403
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.680
<v Speaker 3>think the daughter's lisp gets stronger and stronger at different

404
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:43.960
<v Speaker 3>times of the movie. At the end, she says, is

405
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.720
<v Speaker 3>daddy thick? And I was like, you didn't say that

406
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.319
<v Speaker 3>in the first half of the movie. Daddy is not thick.

407
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.640
<v Speaker 2>I had no comment on a child's lisp, but I'm

408
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>going to let that go. Carried that, but I will say,

409
00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:03.880
<v Speaker 2>I think you're exactly right. Even though I found the

410
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Ginger adorable, I thought she was she was great as

411
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.759
<v Speaker 2>a kid. I never once felt like she was the

412
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:13.119
<v Speaker 2>child of her parents, and I most of the time

413
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.720
<v Speaker 2>felt like Blake was some sort of an opair care

414
00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:20.640
<v Speaker 2>person for the child, and that he had barely met

415
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.839
<v Speaker 2>his wife, like when she walked in, they looked so

416
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.319
<v Speaker 2>wrong for each other, Like I would have been the

417
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.960
<v Speaker 2>friend saying, don't ever marry the don't ever marry right right,

418
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:32.799
<v Speaker 2>like they're just they should not they they shouldn't have

419
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:37.079
<v Speaker 2>been been together. And I struggle with that now. Neither

420
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:39.160
<v Speaker 2>of them are people that I know too much about.

421
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:42.079
<v Speaker 2>The only thing I've seen Julia Garner in is the

422
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:47.799
<v Speaker 2>Delvy show that she did. Do you remember the Oh

423
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:50.400
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, you guys and a Delvi She was in

424
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:53.000
<v Speaker 2>what was it called? Well, she was in Martha Macy,

425
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Martha Barcy May Marlin, which was terrific, terrific, terrific. Apartment

426
00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:02.359
<v Speaker 2>seven A apparently was pretty good. But the thing she

427
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.640
<v Speaker 2>was in Inventing Anna was Oh.

428
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:08.079
<v Speaker 3>About that woman that had the talk crazy and just

429
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:08.960
<v Speaker 3>sort of made up a life.

430
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, she made up a life, and she's now out

431
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:14.079
<v Speaker 2>of jail. And I think she was on Dancing with

432
00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:16.799
<v Speaker 2>the Stars. I could not bring myself to watch it

433
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:22.119
<v Speaker 2>because it was such a it just felt dirty. But

434
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:27.759
<v Speaker 2>apparently she was very good. Julie Garner was very very

435
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:33.319
<v Speaker 2>good as this horrible woman. And so that's the only

436
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:35.359
<v Speaker 2>thing I really knew about her was I liked her

437
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:39.319
<v Speaker 2>as a cultist and that i'd heard she was very good.

438
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:42.839
<v Speaker 3>And they're both both husband and wife were both in

439
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:47.240
<v Speaker 3>Martha Marcy May Marlene. So maybe that's how it all

440
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.039
<v Speaker 3>came together. I don't know. I didn't think that they

441
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:51.440
<v Speaker 3>were a good fit. And I know they're not supposed

442
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:53.279
<v Speaker 3>to be a great fit, but you're supposed to at

443
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:56.880
<v Speaker 3>least have the feeling of there was such a spark

444
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.400
<v Speaker 3>that is now gone. This was there a drag And

445
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:02.880
<v Speaker 3>even before he becomes a sad wolf man, he's already

446
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.279
<v Speaker 3>kind of a sad sack. He's a writer to what end.

447
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:10.559
<v Speaker 3>She's a journalist who cares like they don't see their

448
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:12.319
<v Speaker 3>life does not feel real.

449
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:17.039
<v Speaker 1>No, we we know that is when he shows up

450
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.519
<v Speaker 1>at you know, she's walking out of the office building,

451
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:22.000
<v Speaker 1>right he's sitting there and they sit down to have lunch,

452
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:23.640
<v Speaker 1>and it's like, oh, we haven't done this in a while,

453
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.599
<v Speaker 1>like done what spent time with each other? He had

454
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:32.359
<v Speaker 1>lunch together steps but I don't know or even when

455
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.359
<v Speaker 1>when they're in the apartment, she comes on the phone

456
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.400
<v Speaker 1>and he's asking her to take that, you know, take

457
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.440
<v Speaker 1>that call someplace else, Like, why, what's the issue? You

458
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:46.440
<v Speaker 1>know what, there's there's clearly some friction there, but in

459
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:50.599
<v Speaker 1>a working couple and comes home on an important call

460
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Speaker 1>like okay, that it wasn't disrupting anything he was trying

461
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.480
<v Speaker 1>to do. I don't see what what was rubbing him

462
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:58.720
<v Speaker 1>the wrong way? I was never given enough information to

463
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.799
<v Speaker 1>know why they rub each other wrong so much? And

464
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:05.640
<v Speaker 1>why are they so different? And if they are so different,

465
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:08.000
<v Speaker 1>what was the magic that brought them together? What was

466
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:10.640
<v Speaker 1>that little meat cute that brings them together that they

467
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:13.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh they had this and it's now gone and lost?

468
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:15.519
<v Speaker 1>If it was something to have to do with the

469
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.799
<v Speaker 1>woods of like, oh, that's the reason to go back.

470
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.039
<v Speaker 1>But I don't see the draw for him, because clearly

471
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.039
<v Speaker 1>he got out of there as soon as he could.

472
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:25.960
<v Speaker 1>What's the draw to go back other than the pack

473
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:28.480
<v Speaker 1>up dad's stuff? But what's so valuable that he needs

474
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:31.480
<v Speaker 1>to go back there to reclaim? Do they need the money?

475
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:33.519
<v Speaker 1>There were so many things I thought, what's the I

476
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:36.119
<v Speaker 1>don't understand the reason for going there? Just do weekend

477
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:41.279
<v Speaker 1>get away to revisit your traumatic childhood? Yeah, I just

478
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:43.079
<v Speaker 1>too many unknowns.

479
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:47.400
<v Speaker 2>I actually I'll disagree on the scene where he asked

480
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.880
<v Speaker 2>her to stop or to take the call elsewhere, because

481
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:54.160
<v Speaker 2>I felt like that in and of itself was a

482
00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:58.079
<v Speaker 2>little capsule of marital strife that you know, they're in

483
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.680
<v Speaker 2>the middle of some sort of law term relationship struggle,

484
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:06.519
<v Speaker 2>and he has asked her in an air of disrespect. Right,

485
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:10.720
<v Speaker 2>he is saying, quite loudly, please leave. He's interrupting the

486
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:13.759
<v Speaker 2>call to ask her to leave the kitchen, and she

487
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.720
<v Speaker 2>is with great disrespect, completely ignoring him, which is a

488
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:19.799
<v Speaker 2>sign of a marriage in trouble. It's like a little

489
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.079
<v Speaker 2>like it's a bluepill for marriage and trouble or red pill. Yeah,

490
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:25.279
<v Speaker 2>it's a red pill for marriage and trouble. I didn't

491
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:28.599
<v Speaker 2>mind that. I think it would have been more It

492
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:31.359
<v Speaker 2>would have carried more weight if it had been between

493
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.200
<v Speaker 2>two people that I could ever believe liked each other.

494
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.680
<v Speaker 2>But because I never really got that point, I felt

495
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.680
<v Speaker 2>like it was a relationship that was like there was

496
00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:44.799
<v Speaker 2>no believable faith in a backstory between those two. I

497
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:46.599
<v Speaker 2>think that's where it kind of fell apart from me.

498
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.799
<v Speaker 3>Right, this movie thinks that if a man and a

499
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:54.119
<v Speaker 3>woman are together at some point, they deserve and should

500
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:58.400
<v Speaker 3>be together no matter what, and that's just not true, right,

501
00:27:58.400 --> 00:27:59.400
<v Speaker 3>people should be together.

502
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, so that's okay. So that's interesting. That's that's

503
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.599
<v Speaker 2>relationship dynamics don't don't play very well, and that's problematic

504
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:09.160
<v Speaker 2>for the movie if you want to believe that there's

505
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:12.200
<v Speaker 2>any sacrifice at the end, especially because there's.

506
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:14.680
<v Speaker 3>No one else in the movie. Yeah, you need to

507
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:17.559
<v Speaker 3>have rock solid characters if you're not going to have

508
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.079
<v Speaker 3>my she's not going to go to lunch with her

509
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.359
<v Speaker 3>friend and be like we used to be so great,

510
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:24.319
<v Speaker 3>you know, like all of those ways that you get

511
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:28.440
<v Speaker 3>information without doing flashbacks. They haven't given themselves the keys

512
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.839
<v Speaker 3>to do any of that, which I like because it

513
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:32.440
<v Speaker 3>speeds it up, but you gotta meeel it.

514
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:35.559
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, now the only other character we get is what

515
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:39.559
<v Speaker 1>a childhood friend Derek, when they're on the way there,

516
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:44.160
<v Speaker 1>and clearly she's uncomfortable letting this strange man who's got

517
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.640
<v Speaker 1>a gun in the car, and Blake's like, no, no,

518
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:50.079
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be okay. And again it's the to

519
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:53.039
<v Speaker 1>PE's point, it's showing the you know, the relationship is

520
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.440
<v Speaker 1>in trouble that he's going to move forward with something,

521
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.799
<v Speaker 1>knowing that it bothers her. He doesn't really make an

522
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:01.960
<v Speaker 1>attempt to like allay her fears or concerns of like, oh, no,

523
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I grew up with this guy. I don't really remember

524
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:08.039
<v Speaker 1>him that well. But there was nothing, just like he's

525
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.200
<v Speaker 1>going to get in the car, moved to the back

526
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:15.359
<v Speaker 1>and thought, oh, here's an interesting opportunity to really play

527
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:17.480
<v Speaker 1>out the dynamics of this relationship, give us a little

528
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:20.079
<v Speaker 1>bit more about Blake or what is going on? You know,

529
00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:23.519
<v Speaker 1>who is this guy? He's playing nice? Okay, what's this

530
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:28.839
<v Speaker 1>going to do for the family dynamic to introduce this outsider? Nothing,

531
00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:30.359
<v Speaker 1>because we're just going to kill him off in the

532
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:31.160
<v Speaker 1>next two minutes.

533
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:34.799
<v Speaker 2>So that was fast. Again, this movie goes hard on

534
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:36.039
<v Speaker 2>pace sometimes.

535
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.160
<v Speaker 1>But I loved the crash though. The crash the way

536
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>that was filmed, that was the other standout for me.

537
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:46.599
<v Speaker 1>It was just the spinning, twirling camera that really disoriented,

538
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.480
<v Speaker 1>but I still had a sense of I wasn't confused.

539
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.279
<v Speaker 1>I just was like rolling and moving and twisting with

540
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.680
<v Speaker 1>things in a way that I hadn't seen before that

541
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:57.480
<v Speaker 1>I really really enjoyed visually for.

542
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:01.079
<v Speaker 2>That, and you stay disoriented with that set piece for

543
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:02.920
<v Speaker 2>the duration of the movie. The fact that it's a

544
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:06.920
<v Speaker 2>moving truck sideways in the trees was so cool. I

545
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:09.880
<v Speaker 2>thought that was really cool. And having to go back

546
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:12.319
<v Speaker 2>to it, the fact that they introduced the wolf face

547
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:15.759
<v Speaker 2>crawling on the side of the truck in that first

548
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:20.359
<v Speaker 2>like minute after they reached the forest was I thought

549
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Speaker 2>really great and threatening and propulsive, and I thought, this

550
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.640
<v Speaker 2>is I'm feeling like I'm in pretty good hands. It

551
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:29.359
<v Speaker 2>was a surprise. Let's talk about the wolf Man. There's

552
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:32.200
<v Speaker 2>been some consternation about the Wolfman, that he is diseased

553
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:35.640
<v Speaker 2>and doesn't always look like a wolf. What did you

554
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.759
<v Speaker 2>think about the wolf Man? Did it bug you?

555
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.440
<v Speaker 3>No? No, I was fine. I mean I was grossed

556
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 3>out by it, which I guess is supposed to be

557
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:46.160
<v Speaker 3>the point. But no, I thought he was wolf and doggish. Wait,

558
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.599
<v Speaker 3>what are people? Maybe? I don't know. The complaints that

559
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:52.440
<v Speaker 3>they're not all like hairy and like actual wolf like.

560
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, that he's not more wolfy than he is.

561
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:58.440
<v Speaker 1>He los his hair rather than gaining hair. He has

562
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.400
<v Speaker 1>a big underwright, you know, I mean that dislocating the jaw.

563
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.319
<v Speaker 1>There was a lot of a lot of Kronenberg. The nails,

564
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:09.400
<v Speaker 1>those things, which I thought, oh, perfect, we're going practical,

565
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:13.519
<v Speaker 1>we're going with this, and it's it's it's it's more

566
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.200
<v Speaker 1>realistic than like, oh, my entire face is going to

567
00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:20.359
<v Speaker 1>transform into something then revert back. So it's something that

568
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:24.000
<v Speaker 1>is like, yeah, you could have some physical alteration like that.

569
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:30.720
<v Speaker 1>That seemed reasonable, somewhat realistic. So I didn't really you know,

570
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 1>knowing that this was sort of a deconstruction, you know,

571
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:36.000
<v Speaker 1>unraveling of the wolf Man tail, I didn't expect a

572
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:40.400
<v Speaker 1>traditional same thing with the Invisible Man, right. It wasn't like, oh,

573
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.279
<v Speaker 1>we got the magic formula. So I I know some

574
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>people may have been upset that it's not about the

575
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.559
<v Speaker 1>moon and all that, but again, if we're gonna reinvent it,

576
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:53.519
<v Speaker 1>let's tie it into something. So I was I was

577
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.440
<v Speaker 1>fine with that. There was good practical stuff. I didn't

578
00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:00.359
<v Speaker 1>need him running around on all fours, you know, we

579
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:05.000
<v Speaker 1>do get a little bit of that, but yeah, yeah.

580
00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I gotta say I thought those were some great choices,

581
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:09.720
<v Speaker 2>and that was some stuff that I had never seen

582
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.880
<v Speaker 2>in a movie like this, where he's injured, he's caught

583
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:16.759
<v Speaker 2>in trap and he chews off his own foot to

584
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:20.000
<v Speaker 2>get out. Of the trap, very wolfy he is. You know,

585
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:24.720
<v Speaker 2>he gets his arm is cut and gets grossly disgustingly infected,

586
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:28.519
<v Speaker 2>and you realize, oh my god, she needs to put

587
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.279
<v Speaker 2>a cone on his head so he doesn't live a century.

588
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:35.599
<v Speaker 2>That's what is missing in this movie. That would have

589
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.240
<v Speaker 2>been a fantastic thing. You gotta know, there's going to

590
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:40.640
<v Speaker 2>be a lampoon of that scene. And she puts a

591
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:41.440
<v Speaker 2>cone on his head.

592
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:44.319
<v Speaker 3>She's putting his antibiotics like a piece of cheese.

593
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I found that stuff really fun.

594
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:53.319
<v Speaker 3>I prefer the disease. I mean, I know that we

595
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:57.880
<v Speaker 3>were upset understandably about some of the aims of the filmmakers,

596
00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:59.920
<v Speaker 3>but I prefer the idea of it being more of

597
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:05.799
<v Speaker 3>an infection than a supernatural, lee controlled, lunar controlled kind

598
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:07.599
<v Speaker 3>of a thing. It resonates more.

599
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely, you can do a lot

600
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.920
<v Speaker 1>more with that because of things that could be pasted

601
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.079
<v Speaker 1>or transmitted that way of that, and it is it

602
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:20.319
<v Speaker 1>does make sense for then a ticking clock. It's not

603
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:21.880
<v Speaker 1>like we have to wait till the next full moon.

604
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:24.839
<v Speaker 1>It can be a rapidly progressing disease that's going to

605
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.119
<v Speaker 1>transform and have physical effects within you. Know hours, So yeah,

606
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:30.599
<v Speaker 1>I was fully on board, but that even the disease

607
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:35.640
<v Speaker 1>aspect separate from you know, writer's intent, you know, yeah,

608
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:40.000
<v Speaker 1>made sense for a way to reinvent this particular type.

609
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:42.799
<v Speaker 3>To not go back to man, right is really the

610
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.440
<v Speaker 3>thing that separates this from every other one that I

611
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.119
<v Speaker 3>remember seeing is there's no coming back. There's no regression, right.

612
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, which is to say this isn't a mood right right, yeah.

613
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:56.720
<v Speaker 3>Which makes sense with the idea of generational trauma, which

614
00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:01.119
<v Speaker 3>makes the idea of these things that you can't I guess,

615
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:03.880
<v Speaker 3>I mean you can sort of escape that if you

616
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.799
<v Speaker 3>try hard enough. I don't know. Again, I brought up

617
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:11.039
<v Speaker 3>the lack of character development originally to complain and be

618
00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:14.320
<v Speaker 3>a real b word about that. I didn't feel like

619
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:18.639
<v Speaker 3>the generational trauma played enough. I was told what it is.

620
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:19.880
<v Speaker 3>I didn't feel it.

621
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.119
<v Speaker 1>There was a lot of telling. As you said, there

622
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 1>was just so much telling and not following through on

623
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.960
<v Speaker 1>things that we were given and hinted at. Coming back

624
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.920
<v Speaker 1>to the spider thing, very cool, but then we get

625
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:38.159
<v Speaker 1>when they're on the little garden greenhouse thing and the

626
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:40.400
<v Speaker 1>staples are popping out, I'm like, that should be like

627
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.039
<v Speaker 1>bullets ricocheting in his ears. He should know that, like,

628
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:46.599
<v Speaker 1>she's in danger of this plastic fallowing through because the

629
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:50.159
<v Speaker 1>staples are pulling out, and I thought everything should be

630
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:53.000
<v Speaker 1>triggering those senses. Unless we get a sense that, oh

631
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I can, like Peter Parker, I can control it. Right,

632
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.119
<v Speaker 1>we don't get that. We just know that this spider

633
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.079
<v Speaker 1>sounds like someone he was hearing the spider.

634
00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:04.719
<v Speaker 3>I can't figure out what's going on.

635
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:09.280
<v Speaker 1>That spider's because he can't put stuff in his ears,

636
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:10.199
<v Speaker 1>like get the cotton.

637
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Someone gave that spider a drum kit the the Actually,

638
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.239
<v Speaker 2>the interesting thing about that is that there is some

639
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:23.559
<v Speaker 2>supposition that they that characters can hide from Og dog Man,

640
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:26.760
<v Speaker 2>and the movie had already taught us that that is

641
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:30.280
<v Speaker 2>functionally impossible, because he can hear a spider in a

642
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 2>closet in a room upstairs. So the og dog Man

643
00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:36.000
<v Speaker 2>who's chasing them should have been the one to hear

644
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:38.840
<v Speaker 2>all the staples and the plastic and everything. I mean,

645
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:42.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know car starting the works. It should have been,

646
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:46.559
<v Speaker 2>but but the movie can't handle that kind of stress testing.

647
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:48.840
<v Speaker 2>That's not the kind of movie this is, right, So

648
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.519
<v Speaker 2>at least they didn't turn into giant wolves and you know,

649
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:56.119
<v Speaker 2>glisten in the sun vampires like that. It's it's more

650
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:59.119
<v Speaker 2>grounded than that. And and I think that's that's fine.

651
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Uh it's this movie was not filmed in Oregon. As

652
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 2>an Oregonian, I just have to say that was filmed

653
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.119
<v Speaker 2>in New Zealand. And there's a lot about New Zealand

654
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.840
<v Speaker 2>that we and Oregon would love to have. And so

655
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:15.440
<v Speaker 2>I just want to say, hats off to you in

656
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.079
<v Speaker 2>New Zealand. You're doing great.

657
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:21.559
<v Speaker 3>That explains the world's giant spider. Yes, right, that's the

658
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.960
<v Speaker 3>much more of a New Zealand Australian.

659
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:31.239
<v Speaker 2>Thing than because it was wearing a hat and hell yeah,

660
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:35.920
<v Speaker 2>uh Lee one L, what have we What have you

661
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.320
<v Speaker 2>seen from? You know we've already dropped Invisible Man? What

662
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.519
<v Speaker 2>else do you love about Lee one L? If anything?

663
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:45.079
<v Speaker 3>I honestly, if I'm being completely honest, I get him

664
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.880
<v Speaker 3>confused with what he has done versus what James Wan

665
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:50.800
<v Speaker 3>has done, because I know that they are co conspirators

666
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:53.159
<v Speaker 3>a lot, right starting with us aw.

667
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yep, yep.

668
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:57.719
<v Speaker 3>So I don't know, but I think I like enough

669
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.519
<v Speaker 3>of what he's done. And I loved Invisible Man one

670
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:02.760
<v Speaker 3>thing about this one. I didn't think this movie was

671
00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:07.280
<v Speaker 3>very scary. And this movie also had like big jump

672
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.960
<v Speaker 3>scares that didn't work, and I couldn't figure out why,

673
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:15.320
<v Speaker 3>like thumps that came out of nowhere, or you're waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting,

674
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:19.039
<v Speaker 3>and you see the breath over the deer blind and

675
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.320
<v Speaker 3>then the scene there's a big crash, but it doesn't work.

676
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Something about it. When there was some really good stuff

677
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:30.039
<v Speaker 3>in Invisible Man that worked as jump scares and stuff,

678
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:33.679
<v Speaker 3>this movie just wasn't very scary, which I was surprised by.

679
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, agree, I think it. Yeah, it failed to deliver

680
00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:41.639
<v Speaker 1>on scares. It had a little bit of the gore

681
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.639
<v Speaker 1>with that, but yeah, I never felt even you would

682
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:47.800
<v Speaker 1>think with the ticking clock in a confined space that

683
00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:50.880
<v Speaker 1>I would be really on the edge of my seat,

684
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:53.519
<v Speaker 1>some tension and all of that, and I just never

685
00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:57.840
<v Speaker 1>got wound that tight. And I don't know if that

686
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:00.440
<v Speaker 1>was a choice to not do that because of the

687
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.199
<v Speaker 1>story trying to be told that. I don't know, but

688
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:09.840
<v Speaker 1>I knew that it wasn't what I expected overall, you know,

689
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:13.760
<v Speaker 1>in many ways, And coming back to Lee wentel because

690
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a big fan of like horror and all that.

691
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.760
<v Speaker 1>But I know his first the first or second film

692
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:25.280
<v Speaker 1>he directed, Upgrade from twenty eighteen is a great movie.

693
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:27.719
<v Speaker 1>I've heard great things about that and saw that it

694
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:33.159
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, this is really really creative. Loved that movie.

695
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:37.079
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that Invisible Man, I felt like, yeah, I

696
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.440
<v Speaker 1>like you know the projects he's directed. So this was

697
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:43.079
<v Speaker 1>a bit of a stumble for me. You know, overall,

698
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:46.719
<v Speaker 1>I was expecting something that was going to push some boundaries,

699
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:50.079
<v Speaker 1>or reinvent some things, or take familiar turf in a

700
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:52.599
<v Speaker 1>new direction, and it just didn't get there this time.

701
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.920
<v Speaker 2>He I like everything this is he's one of the

702
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:00.000
<v Speaker 2>rare directors right now that I maybe it's not rare.

703
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I've never done the study. I've seen

704
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:05.199
<v Speaker 2>everything he's directed, I haven't seen everything he's acted in

705
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:09.639
<v Speaker 2>or written. But Insidious Chapter three was a fine entry

706
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:15.519
<v Speaker 2>in the Insidious story. Upgrade was great Invisible Man and Wolfman,

707
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.760
<v Speaker 2>and he's got Upgrade the TV show, which it looks

708
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:21.280
<v Speaker 2>like he's directing at least some of and the Green

709
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:26.599
<v Speaker 2>Hornet and Cato coming at some point, which could be

710
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:31.079
<v Speaker 2>interesting and maybe as racist as the original. Who knows

711
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.679
<v Speaker 2>You're Crost, So I really like what he's going for.

712
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:37.440
<v Speaker 2>And I think if you go back to Upgrade, you

713
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:41.519
<v Speaker 2>see exactly the kind of propulsive direction that he's capable of.

714
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:47.559
<v Speaker 2>And I think that plays in The Invisible Man and

715
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:53.480
<v Speaker 2>in this movie. It's it may be weirdly inconsistently applied

716
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.199
<v Speaker 2>in the pacing of this movie. Sometimes it really does,

717
00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:58.760
<v Speaker 2>but you're right. Sometimes there are these action choices or

718
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.199
<v Speaker 2>these choices that are that are imbued with threat and

719
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:05.800
<v Speaker 2>fear and they're neutered for lack of a better word.

720
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:11.840
<v Speaker 3>There's one fantastic scare and unfortunately the uh trailer give

721
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.880
<v Speaker 3>it away, which was a real drag because he does

722
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:18.119
<v Speaker 3>the three different times. This movie is very big into

723
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:21.360
<v Speaker 3>that West Late with Wes Craven open up a thing

724
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.719
<v Speaker 3>so you can't see behind you, and they close it

725
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.159
<v Speaker 3>but there's no one there. That was the new that

726
00:40:26.199 --> 00:40:29.039
<v Speaker 3>he really brought in with like scream and stuff. After

727
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:31.079
<v Speaker 3>so many people, you know, there was always someone on

728
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.760
<v Speaker 3>other side of the door. During the entire charging up

729
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:37.880
<v Speaker 3>the car sequence that happens three different times, and each

730
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:41.519
<v Speaker 3>time you're like I that was when I was leaning forward.

731
00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:44.880
<v Speaker 3>I was like, I have you, you have me in

732
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.039
<v Speaker 3>the palm of your hands. Shoot, I saw the trailer

733
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:49.400
<v Speaker 3>and I know as soon as the car starts the

734
00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:52.360
<v Speaker 3>it's the Winshield lifer. See, that's the thing that was

735
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.079
<v Speaker 3>missing with the other jumps. Jump scares aren't just jump

736
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:59.639
<v Speaker 3>scares anymore. This is like things like in Smile and

737
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 3>Smile to the jump scare also does something to break

738
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:07.199
<v Speaker 3>your brain. It can't just be loud and there. It

739
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.039
<v Speaker 3>has to be loud and there and upside down, like

740
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:15.599
<v Speaker 3>you can't immediately identify what you're seeing in the direction

741
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:18.719
<v Speaker 3>and the physics involved. That's how jump scares have progressed.

742
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:22.840
<v Speaker 3>The idea version of that is three hidden things and

743
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:25.320
<v Speaker 3>then it being revealed from outside of the car but

744
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:29.320
<v Speaker 3>through this dirty windshield. That's a brain breaker. That's a

745
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:33.840
<v Speaker 3>really exciting time for jump scares. But this movie needed

746
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:37.159
<v Speaker 3>to bring that more. Just having a real loud thump

747
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 3>after a couple seconds of silence, I think unfortunately we've

748
00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:42.119
<v Speaker 3>moved past.

749
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:44.159
<v Speaker 2>That now I can I totally see that, and I

750
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.519
<v Speaker 2>think that is one of those sequences in this movie

751
00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:48.159
<v Speaker 2>that I think is a real highlight in terms of

752
00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:51.199
<v Speaker 2>pacing of a scene. Because you're right and it and

753
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 2>it still got me, even though I knew it was coming.

754
00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:55.159
<v Speaker 3>It's still right.

755
00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:57.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's right. It's really really great.

756
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:01.239
<v Speaker 3>Sound design out of seas apart from apart from this

757
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:04.719
<v Speaker 3>Spider just for me personally, apart from this Spider drum kit,

758
00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:09.480
<v Speaker 3>this movie begins, it lives in sound, and there's actually

759
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:13.639
<v Speaker 3>it seems like dramatically little amount of music, and even

760
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:16.159
<v Speaker 3>so much so that when it did show up sometimes

761
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:19.519
<v Speaker 3>I was like, oh music, And usually I don't feel

762
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:23.320
<v Speaker 3>that way, but there was so much just creepy crawling,

763
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:27.559
<v Speaker 3>I mean whenever. That was also big in the Wolf Vision,

764
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.719
<v Speaker 3>for lack of a better phrase, things that you would

765
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:35.159
<v Speaker 3>he would be hearing and feeling, the entire forest just

766
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:38.800
<v Speaker 3>come to life. I thought that the sound design was incredible.

767
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:44.280
<v Speaker 3>It seems so dense without seeming just loud. I loved it.

768
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:48.760
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely agree. I think Stevid Waalfish did the did

769
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:52.159
<v Speaker 2>the score for you know, it's an austere score. I

770
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:56.360
<v Speaker 2>want to pile on the Wolf Vision stuff. Stephan Douccio

771
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:01.239
<v Speaker 2>did the cinematography, and I think just lighting camera was

772
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:05.840
<v Speaker 2>absolutely better than competent. Like, I think the film looked

773
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:09.840
<v Speaker 2>really good, and particularly in contrasts like when You're going

774
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:13.719
<v Speaker 2>from the incredibly lit wolf vision to what they were

775
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:18.440
<v Speaker 2>experiencing in the dark was haunting. I thought it was great,

776
00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:19.599
<v Speaker 2>like you can.

777
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Get so close to them and they have no idea.

778
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.440
<v Speaker 2>That barn sequence at the end when he was right

779
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.760
<v Speaker 2>there sitting on that bear was incredibly cool.

780
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:30.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm so glad that it that it feed that way

781
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:32.159
<v Speaker 3>because I was like, oh no, they forgot to light

782
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:37.320
<v Speaker 3>this entire sitnin and like maybe like a robe, and

783
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.239
<v Speaker 3>I was like, this isn't working. And then it's purposeful

784
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:45.119
<v Speaker 3>to show that. I when we were texting Pete, I

785
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:48.679
<v Speaker 3>brought up Pitch Black, the when we all met in

786
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:52.159
<v Speaker 3>Diegel where he had those like his night vision kind

787
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:55.880
<v Speaker 3>of things. The big difference that this movie does really

788
00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:58.400
<v Speaker 3>update that idea. Ay, it looks better, but then be

789
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:04.599
<v Speaker 3>showing both in one uncut shot I've never seen that

790
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:08.480
<v Speaker 3>much before, which was again one of the two to

791
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:11.679
<v Speaker 3>three really outstanding ideas in this movie. It makes sense

792
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:13.880
<v Speaker 3>that he'd be like, oh I cracked it. Yeah, yeah,

793
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:18.519
<v Speaker 3>absolutely one night wolf vision spider trope kit, let's go,

794
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:25.559
<v Speaker 3>well this I'm I am.

795
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:29.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna say. I know Steve is sad and angry,

796
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:33.119
<v Speaker 2>but I think this movie is better than what we

797
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:34.400
<v Speaker 2>talked about last month.

798
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:37.599
<v Speaker 1>So well, so I'm going to talk about first Shot,

799
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:40.039
<v Speaker 1>Last Shot for a second because they really please with

800
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.079
<v Speaker 1>how I felt about this movie. Because first shot you

801
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:49.320
<v Speaker 1>get out we probably not yes, lots of lots of noise,

802
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:52.280
<v Speaker 1>lots of noise in black, and then you get the

803
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:57.760
<v Speaker 1>wasp that's being just attacked and swarmed by the ants.

804
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:01.840
<v Speaker 1>So but I thought, okay, what is that telling It's okay,

805
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:03.880
<v Speaker 1>we're in the woods, but there's something else If you're

806
00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:05.920
<v Speaker 1>gonna do something like that, what is that telling me?

807
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.599
<v Speaker 1>Like the big thing being taken down by the little

808
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:09.840
<v Speaker 1>thing something? You know?

809
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:10.239
<v Speaker 3>Is it?

810
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:14.199
<v Speaker 1>Is it metaphor for virus cells attacking something? You know?

811
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I thought, okay, there, what am I to make of this?

812
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:19.400
<v Speaker 1>I thought, that's a compelling image. That's gonna I'm gonna

813
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:22.199
<v Speaker 1>try to make some meaning out of give me something

814
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.280
<v Speaker 1>to wrestle with. In the contrast that with the end,

815
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:28.920
<v Speaker 1>which is we're told you know earlier on oh yeah,

816
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:30.119
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna go to Oregon.

817
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:31.480
<v Speaker 3>It's this not.

818
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:34.599
<v Speaker 1>Far from the farmhouse I grew up on. There's this valley.

819
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:36.480
<v Speaker 1>You can go stand there and just know everything's gonna

820
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.440
<v Speaker 1>be okay, and so what is our last shot? Mom

821
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:41.239
<v Speaker 1>and daughter are standing there looking at the valley. Everything's

822
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:45.480
<v Speaker 1>gonna be okay. It was just to do on the nose.

823
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:48.440
<v Speaker 1>I was like, come on, you, you open with some intrigue,

824
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.480
<v Speaker 1>with something compelling, enigmatic, and end with just like, let

825
00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:53.440
<v Speaker 1>me hitch you with in the head with this a

826
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:54.280
<v Speaker 1>little bit harder.

827
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:57.000
<v Speaker 2>That's so funny. That's not what I got from the

828
00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:01.440
<v Speaker 2>last bit at all. Uh, Like, I guess there's a

829
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:04.079
<v Speaker 2>certain sort of maternal everything's going to be okay. But man,

830
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:08.119
<v Speaker 2>when they pull back and you reveal that giant New

831
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:15.239
<v Speaker 2>Zealand earthscape, all I could think about was you were

832
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:18.199
<v Speaker 2>ill equipped to go from where you are to where

833
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:20.320
<v Speaker 2>you need to be. You are, Like, what you just

834
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:24.639
<v Speaker 2>dealt with was a just a microcosm of what the

835
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:27.239
<v Speaker 2>earth can do to you in this sport. You don't

836
00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:31.760
<v Speaker 2>belong here, mother and daughter, and I guess you're about

837
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:34.159
<v Speaker 2>to be tested. So for me, it was a deeply

838
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:35.239
<v Speaker 2>morose ending.

839
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:40.159
<v Speaker 3>Oh oh, I have to agree with Steve that we

840
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:45.360
<v Speaker 3>were shown that exact view twice and both times I'm sorry.

841
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:47.960
<v Speaker 3>And the first time, yeah, you're shown that this is

842
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.840
<v Speaker 3>a place of comfort, this is a place of but wait, no,

843
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.679
<v Speaker 3>you're not. He literally says, everything's going to be okay. Yeah,

844
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:58.840
<v Speaker 3>and this is the daughter and yeah.

845
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.719
<v Speaker 2>And everything's not okay. Hey, you guys like he lies

846
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:05.480
<v Speaker 2>to his son. He says everything's gonna be okay, and

847
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:10.760
<v Speaker 2>then the earth destroys them both. He turns into Dogface

848
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Man and then his son turns into dog Face Man

849
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:18.119
<v Speaker 2>and they're both dead. Everything was not okay. That's the

850
00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:22.519
<v Speaker 2>metaphor of this movie. You don't belong here, you'll be dead.

851
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.199
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's what is so morose about it.

852
00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:28.920
<v Speaker 2>The circularity is not hopeful, it's hopeless.

853
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:31.159
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

854
00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:35.679
<v Speaker 1>Sure, when the character says, when you stand there, you

855
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.039
<v Speaker 1>have this feeling you know that everything's gonna be okay,

856
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:41.280
<v Speaker 1>and you put characters there, then they've endured this and

857
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:45.280
<v Speaker 1>that they've killed the monster. So mother and daughter have

858
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:49.760
<v Speaker 1>now magically bonded and all of that, and they're there.

859
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:51.679
<v Speaker 1>And when the character says, when you stand here and

860
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:53.599
<v Speaker 1>look at this, you know everything's gonna be okay. I

861
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:57.480
<v Speaker 1>have to take that at its word with this film, so.

862
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:02.840
<v Speaker 2>And its word is bogus. That's what everyone had.

863
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:04.719
<v Speaker 3>Just stayed and looked at the view.

864
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:06.039
<v Speaker 1>They would have exactly.

865
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:11.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I if I had to tie a rope between

866
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:13.079
<v Speaker 3>the two and say what it is, it's two different

867
00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:17.320
<v Speaker 3>versions of nature. It's beautiful gracefulness and then a complete

868
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:21.440
<v Speaker 3>lack of grace, the beginning being just the monstrosity of nature,

869
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:24.320
<v Speaker 3>and the ending being the beauty that nature can present.

870
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:28.199
<v Speaker 3>But I don't feel good about that because I didn't

871
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:30.639
<v Speaker 3>even see the first image. But I was able to

872
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:33.639
<v Speaker 3>see it just enough. But like, I'll give it that,

873
00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:36.000
<v Speaker 3>but no, I don't think it terribly works.

874
00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.440
<v Speaker 2>The only thing that's hopeful about it is the fact

875
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:41.280
<v Speaker 2>that they broke the cycle, right, that that she did

876
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:45.760
<v Speaker 2>kill the the their predator, And so if I'm giving

877
00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:48.119
<v Speaker 2>it any grace that it could be hopeful, it's because

878
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:52.960
<v Speaker 2>that's the one thing that's different this time, right, Yeah,

879
00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:54.960
<v Speaker 2>oh maybe, but I still think they're both dead.

880
00:48:56.920 --> 00:48:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Well how do they get out of there?

881
00:48:58.559 --> 00:48:58.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

882
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:00.039
<v Speaker 1>I don't They've got.

883
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.599
<v Speaker 3>And the magazine she apparently writes for is Shotgun Monthly.

884
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:08.079
<v Speaker 2>She's immediately good at a lot of things, That's true.

885
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:12.119
<v Speaker 3>While we're in mom Jean's like she adapts, well, yeah,

886
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:12.920
<v Speaker 3>all right.

887
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.599
<v Speaker 2>Well this was a treat, but you know what we

888
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.599
<v Speaker 2>have to do now? This is where things get serious.

889
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:20.800
<v Speaker 2>This is where we have to uh, we have to

890
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:26.000
<v Speaker 2>carve our opinions in the stone that is letterboxed. We

891
00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:29.320
<v Speaker 2>are at letterbox letterbox dot com, slash the next real

892
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:32.119
<v Speaker 2>That's where you can find our HQ page, and we

893
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:35.280
<v Speaker 2>are gonna out of five stars half stars count, We're

894
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.280
<v Speaker 2>going to say what we think of this movie. Steve,

895
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:39.239
<v Speaker 2>would you like to start at the bottom because I'd

896
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:40.679
<v Speaker 2>like to know if I have more stars to work

897
00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:41.320
<v Speaker 2>with for mine.

898
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:43.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh, you probably have a lot for stars to work

899
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:48.400
<v Speaker 1>with on your end, because I am gonna say it

900
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:49.840
<v Speaker 1>just gets worse.

901
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.239
<v Speaker 2>And we're supposed to have booied it, now.

902
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:56.639
<v Speaker 1>Booied it by saying it's it's horrible and it details

903
00:49:56.679 --> 00:50:00.559
<v Speaker 1>in so many ways that I'm now Yeah. I debated

904
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:02.079
<v Speaker 1>because I had to look back at what we did

905
00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:05.039
<v Speaker 1>last month and how I felt about that film and

906
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:10.320
<v Speaker 1>where this compares and all that, and I'm I'm gonna

907
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:13.320
<v Speaker 1>go with two stars and no heart on this. Two

908
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:17.199
<v Speaker 1>stars and that's it. That's a generous two stars. There

909
00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:20.280
<v Speaker 1>was almost one and a half. But I do have

910
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:23.559
<v Speaker 1>to give some credit for the technical aspects, because if

911
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:27.679
<v Speaker 1>we didn't have that wolf vision transition, the sound design,

912
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:30.760
<v Speaker 1>some of those things, the way the crash was filmed.

913
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:35.679
<v Speaker 1>I thought those really saved this film for me from

914
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:36.760
<v Speaker 1>being a complete mess.

915
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:39.599
<v Speaker 2>So two stars, all right, and we did y two

916
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:40.480
<v Speaker 2>k last month.

917
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:43.159
<v Speaker 1>We also know, I know this was this was worse

918
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:44.039
<v Speaker 1>than that.

919
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:47.159
<v Speaker 2>That's stunning to me right now that that's this is

920
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:51.599
<v Speaker 2>the conversation we're having Gladiator too. Before that. You remember,

921
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:53.599
<v Speaker 2>we didn't love Gladiator too, No.

922
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:55.679
<v Speaker 1>I know, and this was that was too. I give

923
00:50:55.719 --> 00:50:57.239
<v Speaker 1>that two and a half stars, and I think this

924
00:50:57.320 --> 00:50:59.480
<v Speaker 1>is worse than that because at least there was a

925
00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:03.159
<v Speaker 1>flamboyt Denzel and his scarves and see that.

926
00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:05.360
<v Speaker 3>I guess just sort of repeat what I said in

927
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:10.440
<v Speaker 3>the beginning. It has real problems, and it has enough.

928
00:51:11.239 --> 00:51:14.360
<v Speaker 3>The sound design is great, the creature thing is great.

929
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:17.199
<v Speaker 3>I love the idea of generational trauma. I do not

930
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:19.840
<v Speaker 3>believe it paid off, but I like that idea of

931
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.599
<v Speaker 3>trying to how Invisible Man was actually about domestic abuse.

932
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:27.320
<v Speaker 3>This is actually about passing down sicknesses. I didn't read

933
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:32.639
<v Speaker 3>what Steve read, and so i'm I don't like that idea,

934
00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:35.760
<v Speaker 3>but I didn't see it. I never would have thought

935
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:38.440
<v Speaker 3>of it that way. With that, and so with all

936
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:41.079
<v Speaker 3>of that, then I will give it a three. I'll

937
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:45.000
<v Speaker 3>say a three, and maybe it should be three point five.

938
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:47.239
<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure, but I think that maybe I'll be

939
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.039
<v Speaker 3>a three, because I'm grumpy enough to say that if

940
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.760
<v Speaker 3>you're gonna put your people in a real small area

941
00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:53.719
<v Speaker 3>for a long amount of time, you've got to nail

942
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:56.679
<v Speaker 3>the characters first and then start thinking about how you're

943
00:51:56.679 --> 00:52:00.360
<v Speaker 3>going to get the moving truck on its side, and

944
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:03.840
<v Speaker 3>then go from there. Because I just there was an unfortunate,

945
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:08.159
<v Speaker 3>real emotional hole in this movie and it's character development.

946
00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:10.840
<v Speaker 3>But that being said, there's a lot that is strong

947
00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:14.159
<v Speaker 3>and I don't like wolf Men, and I watched this

948
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:15.760
<v Speaker 3>whole movie and I was glad that I saw it,

949
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:16.920
<v Speaker 3>So three three in.

950
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:20.000
<v Speaker 2>A art I stand with you, Tom. I feel like

951
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:22.840
<v Speaker 2>this movie has more going for it than going against it.

952
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:26.760
<v Speaker 2>And while I wasn't necessarily scared, I don't think the

953
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:30.760
<v Speaker 2>movie had to be scary to actually execute on its metaphor.

954
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:34.199
<v Speaker 2>That unfortunately is the challenge for me. That it's set

955
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:37.320
<v Speaker 2>up so much, it aspired to do so much that

956
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:40.039
<v Speaker 2>it didn't make good on all of its promises. But

957
00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:43.559
<v Speaker 2>it looked good. It sounded great. It did some really

958
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:46.519
<v Speaker 2>interesting things with camera and production that I thought were

959
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:54.960
<v Speaker 2>just wonderful on screen. And the cast is actually quite good, right.

960
00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:58.280
<v Speaker 2>I think Christopher Abbott is great. I think that they

961
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:03.000
<v Speaker 2>are miscast together as a family, but individually they're really

962
00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:05.639
<v Speaker 2>very good, talented people. I think this was a good

963
00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:09.159
<v Speaker 2>swing for Lee Wan l. I don't think he lived

964
00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:12.920
<v Speaker 2>up to necessarily Invisible Man level of reboot, but I

965
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:16.119
<v Speaker 2>am excited to see what comes next. I think, give

966
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:19.320
<v Speaker 2>give them more. Let's see what he can do with

967
00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:22.119
<v Speaker 2>something with something else. So I'm three stars in a

968
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:24.519
<v Speaker 2>heart on this movie, which I know Tom and I

969
00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:27.960
<v Speaker 2>are kind of the island based on what I've read.

970
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.039
<v Speaker 2>Others don't like. The others are sad stems.

971
00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:32.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh really, I haven't looked.

972
00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, well, let me just tell you the text

973
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:42.199
<v Speaker 2>I had told our you know, our friend Andy. I'd said, hey, Andy,

974
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:44.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't because he told me he was going to

975
00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:46.880
<v Speaker 2>see the movie yesterday even though I had seen it

976
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:51.400
<v Speaker 2>on Friday, and I said, I don't think you'll regret it.

977
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:55.159
<v Speaker 2>And he writes back to me after he saw it,

978
00:53:55.719 --> 00:54:00.599
<v Speaker 2>this is it. One line? Wow, period, that was terrible good.

979
00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:04.599
<v Speaker 3>He needed to go check out that view.

980
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't believe he gave him one point five stars.

981
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:10.400
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

982
00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah huh yeah, So I you know, I am. I'm

983
00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:18.400
<v Speaker 2>excited about it. Now we have to talk about what

984
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:21.840
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about next month, and I think because of

985
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:25.800
<v Speaker 2>your predisposition to these kinds of movies, Tom, I think

986
00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:27.840
<v Speaker 2>you should introduce what we're talking about next month.

987
00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:32.639
<v Speaker 3>Oh, this is one that I was not on my radar,

988
00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:36.800
<v Speaker 3>but I think that the trailers have been very good

989
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:40.239
<v Speaker 3>and they make it seem like this is a genre

990
00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:42.320
<v Speaker 3>that is not for me, but every once in a while,

991
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:45.800
<v Speaker 3>like how Guardians of the Galaxy was more like a

992
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:50.000
<v Speaker 3>big group comedy and Civil No, Civil War was a great,

993
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:54.480
<v Speaker 3>big group thing, and Winter Soldier was more like a

994
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:57.039
<v Speaker 3>seventies paranoia film.

995
00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:59.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, comedy, buddies.

996
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:04.639
<v Speaker 3>We are going to be seeing Captain America. Now it's me,

997
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:08.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what's the family is Captain America. Now

998
00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:08.320
<v Speaker 3>it's the.

999
00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Brave New World.

1000
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:14.360
<v Speaker 3>No, it's Captain America, Brave New World. And the trailer

1001
00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:17.599
<v Speaker 3>it has Harrison Ford in it and some red guy

1002
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:19.440
<v Speaker 3>shows up in the trailer. I don't know what that's about.

1003
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:22.159
<v Speaker 3>I honestly do not, but it looks like it could

1004
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.079
<v Speaker 3>be really good. It looks like they're taking us a

1005
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:29.320
<v Speaker 3>real swing and sort of bringing it down, giving it

1006
00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:31.360
<v Speaker 3>the right things to write people, and not just trying

1007
00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:34.639
<v Speaker 3>to put butts in seats. So I am surprisingly interested

1008
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:37.599
<v Speaker 3>in seeing Brave New World with Captain America. I think

1009
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:38.320
<v Speaker 3>I got the name wrong.

1010
00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:41.760
<v Speaker 2>You get totally. You did great, It's absolutely fine, and

1011
00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:43.800
<v Speaker 2>you got a month in practice. That's our February pick.

1012
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:45.440
<v Speaker 2>We're excited to be there. Don't forget to do all

1013
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:47.920
<v Speaker 2>the things you love to do for podcasts. It really

1014
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.960
<v Speaker 2>helps us if you head to you know, if you

1015
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:52.639
<v Speaker 2>share the show with people you think will like it.

1016
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:56.119
<v Speaker 2>That's that's the bread and butter of all of our podcasts.

1017
00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:00.280
<v Speaker 2>So you know, like share sing praises from roof to ups,

1018
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:04.159
<v Speaker 2>anything that works for you. And thank you Steve, Sad,

1019
00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Steve and Tom for doing this movie with us this month.

1020
00:56:09.639 --> 00:56:12.679
<v Speaker 2>We'll see you next month. Everybody meeting adjourned.

1021
00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:33.519
<v Speaker 3>Oh I