WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.560 Why do atheats spend so much time and energy arguing 2 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:05.440 about something they don't even think exists. Well, I can 3 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:07.879 think of a few answers off the top of my head. One, 4 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.480 talking to people that have fundamental disagreements with you can 5 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:14.960 help you practice the lost art of civil conversation and 6 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:17.839 can help maintain channels of communication that are frequently under 7 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:22.359 attacked these days. Two, As philosopher David Hume said, truth 8 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:26.079 springs from argument amongst friends. That means, among other things, 9 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:28.359 that the truth is more likely to be found when 10 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:32.280 all sides are vigorously represented. Three And this one's actually 11 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:36.159 pretty common among atheists because many people do believe in 12 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:39.200 a god and they bring those beliefs to bear when 13 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:42.000 doing things like voting and doing other things that influence 14 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:46.880 our laws, employment expectations, and social norms. And I'm sure 15 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:49.399 there's plenty of other reasons as well, But in my opinion, 16 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.240 the best answer is who cares? Why does that matter 17 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:56.320 at all? Quit deflecting and just back up the claims 18 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:58.359 that you make. In fact, you can do that right 19 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:00.920 here on Talk Heathen, because that's what the show is 20 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.520 all about, and it's starting right now. 21 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.840 Welcome everybody. Today is April thirteenth, twenty twenty five. I 22 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:18.079 am your host, Doctor Ben, and with me today is 23 00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:21.200 the wonderful Scott Dickey. How are you doing that? 24 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:23.400 Doing very well? Doctor Ben? How about yourself? 25 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.599 You know I'm doing okay. It is Palm Sunday, I 26 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:31.519 believe for people who celebrate that, or at least it 27 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:35.359 is in the non orthodox side of Christianity. I know 28 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:39.439 their calendar is a bit different, but I want to 29 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.359 hear some calls today related to that. I know we 30 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:47.239 have a pretty heavy Christian presence in this country, and 31 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:50.120 in the side shot of this show, I want to 32 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.680 hear you bring some evidence for your claims of the 33 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:59.239 resurrection for Jesus, even going to Jerusalem for the importance 34 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:03.400 of Good Friday. There's so much to unpack, and if 35 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:07.359 I remember correctly, you all have a duty per your 36 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:11.319 scripture that you should be spreading the word of Jesus Christ, 37 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.879 and this is your time to do it. We have 38 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:22.919 open lines. We're also here happy to talk about secular humanism, cosmology, philosophy, science, history, life, 39 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:26.199 anything else that's kind of going on your in your 40 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:30.159 mind today related to religion and all of that. So 41 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:33.639 get your calls in talking Then is a product as 42 00:02:33.639 --> 00:02:35.960 a production of the Atheist Community of Austin, a five 43 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:39.719 oh one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion 44 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:43.800 of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of 45 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:46.759 religion and government. If you would love to get your 46 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.400 call in, we want to hear from you. You can 47 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.280 call five one two nine nine one nine two four two, 48 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.400 or you can use your computer browser at tiny dot 49 00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:00.520 c c slash call thh and get your halls in. 50 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:03.520 Earlier on in the shows that we have enough time 51 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:08.280 to address all of that conversation. But in the meantime 52 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.199 we have our favorite segments of the week talk Heathen 53 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:14.199 to me. I'm gonna bring up our good friend Richard 54 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.800 Gilliver to take us away. 55 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:22.000 Jared Hello, Hello, Hello today I've come up unmuted. Unlike 56 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:23.879 last week where I did a Jonny p Angel and 57 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.400 came up muted, It's time for ok then to me 58 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.240 segments where we get into the questions of the weekend. 59 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:33.680 Last week we asked you what what atheists heaven look like? 60 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:38.919 And here top three answers. So number three comes from Kaimore, 61 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:43.520 who says, what would atheist heaven be? Free access to 62 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:49.039 entire groves of the Tree of Knowledge. Yeah, maybe maybe, Gents, 63 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:50.000 what do you think of that one? 64 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.400 So there'd be like a variety of all different kinds 65 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:55.479 of knowledge and you could go to the tree. Like 66 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:57.960 it's kind of like Neo and the Matrix. Right, He's like, 67 00:03:58.199 --> 00:03:59.800 you go to the tree and you're like, I know 68 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:00.520 kung Fu? 69 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:02.199 Now, right? Is that how that works? 70 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:04.360 It'd be cool. Yeah, I think I could. I think 71 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:05.120 we could live with that. 72 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.919 Number two comes from If I'm reading this correctly, there's 73 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.439 probably some weirdy moticon thing going off here, but to me, 74 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:16.279 it looks like it says why Sally b Unfortunately Etheist 75 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:19.720 seven is mostly empty. We all end up in LDS 76 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:27.720 heaven because of course humoussion is. So let's hope we 77 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:32.879 don't have to wear silver suits like Joseph Smith. Joseph 78 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.839 Smith predicted on the moon there were people living who 79 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.480 had so looked kind of like us. We're around the 80 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:40.920 same eye of us. But I had silver suits on 81 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:42.959 another great thing you got wrong. 82 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.199 Imagine if imagine if you tried to go to atheist 83 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.439 heaven and you're like, oh, man, I studied so much 84 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:52.879 philosophy in life. I committed so much blasphemy in life. 85 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:57.040 I'm ready to go drink mountain dew and play video 86 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.360 games for all maternity and then you just end up 87 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.319 having a turn old spirit babies for the rest of forever, 88 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:07.079 Mormon babies let down there. 89 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:13.920 And number one goes to Miranda Rensberger, who says it 90 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:19.959 is heaven is unlimited doughnuts and no diabetes. I think 91 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:23.000 myself and Ben have this sing way we talked about 92 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.519 food a lot is done so today in the pre 93 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.240 show because we want to help himself on the right 94 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:34.319 fo here and again the feeling we could really really 95 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:37.240 go with that one the question of the week. 96 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:40.000 Before you hold on, before you get to the new question, 97 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:44.879 I noticed that the the number three entry there you 98 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:49.160 said the name with a very convincing Welsh accent. 99 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:50.519 Could you say that again for us? 100 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:55.439 Yeah, we are convinced. So here's our new conspiracy, and 101 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:59.000 I are convinced that Richard is actually secretly Welsh. 102 00:05:59.120 --> 00:05:59.839 I think that's the. 103 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:01.480 Last year down from this. 104 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:07.759 And sorry for the interruption they're carrying just at that point. 105 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.439 That is actually I mean, it could be Irish gallic, 106 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:13.560 but it looks very much like Scott's gallic to me. 107 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.920 And that would be pronounced if I'm correct kai more 108 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:19.920 and it doesn't look like that rich gallic and none 109 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:23.160 of the words look like how they are pronounced. And 110 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:26.759 I am not Welsh. Just let's just set the record straight. 111 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:29.680 I love Welsh people. I've got nothing against Welsh people. Hello, 112 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.639 all our Welsh fans. You are a little of people. 113 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.720 Despite the joke I made last week about shinning sheep, you. 114 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:38.439 Are of people. 115 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:42.399 I am not Welsh. Let's just get that very very clear. 116 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.680 So the prompt of the week for next week, why 117 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:51.279 is Easter on twenty four twenty this year? I'm doing 118 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.040 it the wrong way around because we don't use it. 119 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:56.439 So why it's Easter on four twenty this year? So 120 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.199 you two, I'm going to throw it open to you. 121 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:03.079 Why why is Easter on fourth on the fourth, on 122 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:05.879 the twentieth of the fourth this year? This is confused? 123 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:06.279 In the hell? 124 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:07.519 How of me this premiated this way? 125 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:08.319 Why are you chased? 126 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.639 You on the twentieth of the fall this year? 127 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.279 I'm going to take a ray comfort argument today, which 128 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.439 is something will probably be clipped out of context and 129 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:20.879 sent all around the internet that I'm making a ray 130 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:26.000 comfort argument. But in his you know banana argument, where 131 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.079 if the human hand was not meant to hold the banana, 132 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:33.560 or like if the banana was not designed to be 133 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:36.600 the perfect shape to be held in a human hand. 134 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:39.439 You know, all of that is it's just evidence of 135 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:42.720 a creator, right, And so four twenty it's like, if 136 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:46.720 God did not want us to smoke pot, then why 137 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:48.879 would he create it in the first place. If everything 138 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:54.519 is so intelligently designed, why are these plants so wonderfully smokable? 139 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:59.360 So it's on four twenty obviously, because there's an intent 140 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:02.120 that you should be doing this, you should be combining 141 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:03.279 these holidays into one. 142 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:08.040 We don't dr Goose on this showly, but I think 143 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:08.519 we're seeing. 144 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:10.720 I think we're seeing a conversion of Doctor Ben into 145 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.759 Rastafarianism right here in front. 146 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:13.199 Of our eyes. 147 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.600 But I would say that Easter's on four to twenty 148 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:22.199 this year because I think somehow the universe knew that 149 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:25.240 we would need a little bit extra help maintaining our 150 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:29.120 chill at family get togethers in twenty twenty five. So 151 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.360 I think that's why that Easter happens to fall on 152 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:34.399 fourt I can't wait to see where Christmas is going 153 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:34.759 to fall. 154 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.080 Yeah, it is not by chance? 155 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:38.519 Is not by chance? 156 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:39.480 Great answers, guys. 157 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:42.840 If you want answer that question without endolse and drug 158 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:45.639 goose in any way, shape or form, please do so 159 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:50.279 in the comments in the YouTube section and we will 160 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:52.159 video once is out next week. 161 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:54.559 I have a great show, guys. I'm off scar see 162 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:59.200 you Lisa. All right, thank you Richard. And with that 163 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:02.240 as well, we're going to highlight some of the amazing 164 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:06.919 people working behind the scenes, working on the editing, working 165 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.799 on audio video, all of that. So let's throw it 166 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.519 to the crew cam. Thank you so much to the 167 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.320 mods and the side chat, all the call screeners. We 168 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:19.480 greatly appreciate what you do. And an attractive bunch we 169 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:23.440 got there. Oh definitely. Yeah, all right, are you ready 170 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:25.399 to take the first call of the show. 171 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.240 I am ready to take the first call of the show, 172 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:28.279 Doctor Ben, let's hit. 173 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:33.679 It all right, let's talk to Steve pronounce him from Florida. 174 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:36.320 What topic do you have for us today? 175 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.200 Kind of thrown in this really quick, but I have 176 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:46.639 a problem with this atheism and this selfish looking at 177 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:51.000 your navel and hedonism and the long term effects of 178 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:54.720 society as everybody's going secular. We can see birth rates 179 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:59.639 going down, and as if everybody embrace this selfishness society. 180 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.320 Because I have a lot of questions, Yeah, I have 181 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.960 a lot of questions. Do you think that atheism is 182 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:11.759 equivalent to hedonism? Are these like synonymous philosophies? 183 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.240 Well, where does atheism have any oughts not to be hedonistic? 184 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:16.039 Say that again? 185 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:19.360 Are you Are you saying that anything that doesn't explicitly 186 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.600 say to not be hedonistic automatically promotes hedonism? Is that 187 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:26.080 what you're suggesting there? It's because it seems like you're 188 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:29.519 that's a really big stretch you're making there. How many 189 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:32.039 atheists do you know? Just out of curiosity? How many 190 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:34.039 atheists have you actually met and talked to? 191 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:36.679 I watch all these channels, a lot of these. 192 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:38.840 Channels, and you see us promoting hedonism? 193 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:40.360 Well, what is doctor ben? 194 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:43.120 Okay? Can you I don't like where this is going. 195 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:47.120 If you are going to call it individual people and 196 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:51.320 make targeted statements on something that's not really related, we're 197 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:53.279 not going to continue this conversation. So we're gonna we're 198 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:56.399 going to talk about hedonism and atheism. Can you define 199 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.639 hedonism and how you are using the term. 200 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:00.759 Doing whatever you want to do with yourself. 201 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:03.639 So bodily autonomy is hedonism? Is that what you were. 202 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:06.559 Saying in this case? Yes? Because if everybody was to 203 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:09.879 do exactly what you're doing, how long will society last? 204 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:11.000 How long will we manage that? 205 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.399 Specifically? What are you talking? I feel like I know 206 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.159 where you're going with this and I'm about to mute 207 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:16.759 your ass. 208 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:18.159 Well, but that's my point. 209 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:23.399 You're so, how is bodily autonomy hedonistic? How is that hedonistic? 210 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:24.799 What have you done to yourself? 211 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.240 I do not want to engage in this conversation related 212 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.240 to trans people. Can you stick on the topic of 213 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:34.360 hedonism and atheism? What is what is hedonism other than 214 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.639 like bodily autonomy? Because are you going to suggest that 215 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.919 people who are religious don't have bodyly autonomy? Do you, 216 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:46.080 in your every day to day life do you just 217 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:48.799 let other people make decisions for your body or do 218 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:50.200 you have some agency in that? 219 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:52.399 Well, let's hold on a second. I'm getting kind of 220 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.480 a little confused on here is body of autonomy the 221 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:57.159 right to kill your child in your womb? 222 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:01.759 Were are getting kind of on a tangent. We can 223 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:03.720 talk about do you want to talk about abortion or 224 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:06.440 do you want to talk about hedonism because you are 225 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.000 dodging the subject right now that. 226 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:12.039 What that would call hedonism, and and just being all 227 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:13.159 involved with your say. 228 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:16.320 You're calling you're defining. The way you're defining hedonism is 229 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:20.639 not a way that most philosophers would define that term. 230 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:25.159 So if hedonism is that drink and be merry because 231 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:27.080 you're going to die at some point, if that's what 232 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:30.799 we typically define as hedonism, that is a separate discussion 233 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:34.159 from what you're going on with h with autonomy. 234 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:36.320 And so your claim is. 235 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:40.279 That atheism is the same as hedonism, which I will 236 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:43.360 point out right now that there are many atheists that 237 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.919 don't agree with bodily autonomy arguments. There are plenty of 238 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:51.440 atheists who are transphobic, homophobic, There are plenty of atheists 239 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:54.559 who do not agree with the same things that Scott 240 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.639 and I do, and yet they're still atheists. So if 241 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.879 you want to say that these two are the philosophy, 242 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.240 you can't. You can't use the arguments that you're using, right, 243 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.960 So I'm a bit confused about what your understanding is 244 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:10.799 of these philosophies and how you are asserting that they 245 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:11.759 are one and the same thing. 246 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.720 If I could interject here for a second, real quick here, sorry, Steve, 247 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.600 are you it says here that you're a theist or 248 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:20.759 are you a particular flavor of theists. Are you a 249 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.720 Christian or are you something else? Or what kind of okay? 250 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.399 And so are you? Are you a Christian? Against your will? 251 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.399 Are you being forced to worship the God of Christianity 252 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:32.519 or are you choosing. 253 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:32.559 To do that? 254 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:34.399 No? I'm not being forced, okay? 255 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.200 So so then are you being hedonistic because you're doing 256 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:40.279 what you want according to your definition of hedonism? I 257 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.879 mean doing what you want? I mean, wasn't isn't free will? 258 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.720 Isn't that a key part of the relationship between the 259 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:49.600 Christian God and Christians? 260 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:50.000 Right? 261 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.000 Isn't that part of it? Isn't don't Christians do what 262 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:52.519 they want? 263 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:52.879 Or? 264 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:54.799 Are you forced to do things that you don't want 265 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:55.000 to do? 266 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:55.399 Well? 267 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:57.799 I've got commandments and things like that limiting what I 268 00:13:57.840 --> 00:13:58.159 can do. 269 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.879 Well, I mean that they they're limit maybe what you 270 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.279 think you should do. But just because the commandment isn't there, 271 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.440 Just because there's a commandment that says thou shalt not kill, 272 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.320 doesn't mean that Christians can't kill. It means that it 273 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.320 might motivate a Christian to choose to not kill, but 274 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:16.600 they're still doing what they want, right, Isn't that? 275 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:17.919 In fact, isn't. 276 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.879 That a major part of committing yourself to your God 277 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:25.360 is choosing to devote your life to live this lifestyle. 278 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:28.000 So you're doing exactly the same thing that you were 279 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.240 just saying is equivalent to atheism. You're doing what you 280 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:31.799 want to do. 281 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.519 Atheism has no rules of aughts, but. 282 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.360 That doesn't affect whether what you do. You're still choosing. 283 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:42.600 If that's the case, if Christianity has shoulds and aughts 284 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.320 built into it, you still choose to do that. You 285 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:50.159 still want to follow those those strictures, right, those limitations 286 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.480 you voluntarily. In fact, that's a major part of being Christianity. 287 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:58.600 Being a Christian is giving yourself into that. You're choosing 288 00:14:58.679 --> 00:14:59.120 to do it. 289 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.440 Yeah, using to follow a hierarchy, which. 290 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:03.960 Okay, so as a hedonist. 291 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:06.879 Then as a hedonist, since you're doing what you want, 292 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:08.919 why aren't you an atheist? 293 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.919 Then okay, so then we're all heathenists then, right. 294 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:13.639 According to the definition. 295 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:17.559 Yeah, because your definition of hedonism is not very consistent 296 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.879 with the way that it's typically used, and I reject 297 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:25.639 the idea that there's supposed to be a like a 298 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.720 set of moral arts or a set of rules for 299 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:35.120 every single philosophical system that you're adopting. Like so, according 300 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.279 to you and many Christians that would say Christianity includes 301 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.440 your beliefs in a higher power or your beliefs in 302 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:47.399 like the origin of the universe, et cetera, and also 303 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:52.159 includes a moral system, Atheism is not like that. It 304 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.519 does not encompass both sides of that. It is only 305 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:00.159 it's only for your beliefs on you know, where we 306 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.320 came from, what is the universe? Where does it come from? 307 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:05.840 All that? And like is there a higher power? Is 308 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:09.000 there not? Like that's really the only question that atheism addresses. 309 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:14.519 There's no claim in atheism to address morality, Like none 310 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:17.919 of that is encompassed within atheism itself. So I think 311 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.039 you're making an assumption that it does cover all of 312 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:23.799 this when we're not making that claim at all. So 313 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.919 if you're an atheist, you probably have some other moral 314 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:31.600 framework that you go by. For us, it's secular humanism, 315 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:34.480 which yes, kind of fits into atheism in that it 316 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.080 is secular and does not rely on a higher power. 317 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.080 But not all atheists are secular humanists. There are probably 318 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.840 atheists who are hedonists, but that is separate from their atheism. 319 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:50.440 Does that make sense, like they're separate categories of belief systems. 320 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:53.360 There's all different flavors. Yes, But if we look at 321 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.519 the overall picture of the secularism in the secular West, 322 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:59.960 the birth rates are going down. The selfishness is going up, 323 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:01.720 the hedonism is going up. 324 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.799 The birth rates are going down everywhere on the globe. 325 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.200 So you can't say that this is just related to 326 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.839 primarily atheist areas. There's can you think of some reasons 327 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:16.519 that are not religiously based why birth rates might be 328 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.880 going down. It's a multivariate problem. 329 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:22.279 Right, Well, the biggest thing is is everybody wants to 330 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.240 do what they want to do. 331 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.279 Steve, let me ask you a question, because it sounds 332 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.119 like you do have children, Steve, yes, too, grown children. 333 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.319 How much money have you spent on your children? First 334 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.920 of all, like how expensive was it to even deliver children, 335 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.640 like in a hospital setting? And along with that, how 336 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.519 expensive is it to feed your kids, to clothe your kids, 337 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.359 to give them education if you're not going through a 338 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.359 public school. But even if you are going through public school, 339 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:55.400 like their school supplies, they're like sports for your kids, 340 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.559 like activities for your kids. It's expensive to raise children, right, Steve. 341 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.599 But I'm not so concerned about the materialism. 342 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:06.319 But here's the thing, Like, should people bring children into 343 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:08.240 the world if they cannot provide for them. 344 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:09.559 If they're a materialist? 345 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:13.400 Probably not in general. I want to know, Steve, if 346 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.839 you had the option to have children and you had 347 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:19.640 no money, you had no way to support a family, 348 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.480 would it be a good decision. Would it be a 349 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.279 responsible decision to have children and bring them into the world. 350 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.119 Do you think that that is Do you think that 351 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:28.880 that is ethical for you to do that? 352 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.640 If you kind of look at the statistics, the poorest 353 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.240 people are having the most children. 354 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:34.559 That's not what I asked you, Steve. 355 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.599 Answer my question, well, I don't like the materialist argument. 356 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.680 You're not talking about materialism, Steve. Stop saying that it's materialism. 357 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.640 I'm asking you if it is ethical to bring a 358 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:50.599 child into the world knowing that you cannot financially support them, Like, 359 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.039 is it okay to bring somebody into the world if 360 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.279 they are going to have a life of suffering where 361 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:59.160 they are not provided for, where they don't have access 362 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.839 to care, access to food, access to clothing, Is that 363 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.400 okay to bring them into the world. And people might 364 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:07.319 have different takes on this, like I'm not necessarily saying that, 365 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.640 like I'm anti natalist, but there are plenty of reasons 366 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:14.200 beyond self interest to not have children, and a lot 367 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.319 of people, especially younger people now, are faced with an 368 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:21.440 economy that cannot really support their needs. How can they 369 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.960 support other people? Like that's that's a conundrum that a 370 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.440 lot of people are put in, and it's a conundrum 371 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:31.680 globally as well. There are there are plenty of people 372 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:37.119 around the world who cannot support children, and so it 373 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:41.440 is a multivariate problem that you are limiting yourself to 374 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:43.960 such a black and white lens and focusing only on 375 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.960 whether or not it's materialistic, and you're missing some nuance here, Steve. 376 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.200 I'm agreeing with you. The world is very materialistic and 377 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.839 that's what the economy's like, and it's but that. 378 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.400 Is not individuals. That's not individuals for the most part 379 00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.599 making that decision. That is like, do you think that 380 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.759 individ vidual people are responsible for what their governments do? 381 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.240 Individual people will know because we're kind of a democracy 382 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:08.839 right now. So it's all mob. 383 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.200 Rule like globally, Yeah, and globally too. Do you think 384 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:16.759 people like in rural Iran are responsible for what their 385 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.279 country is doing politically? Well, are they responsible for their 386 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:23.440 economic situation? Well, no, no, they're not. They're not. They 387 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:26.359 have no control over they have no control over the 388 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.759 economy that they are born into. They have no control 389 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.759 over those rules governing them for the most part. Like, 390 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:38.119 it's very it's very intellectually dishonest to suggest that lower 391 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:42.440 birth rates are solely related to secularism. Right, so that 392 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.039 points debunked. What else you got? What other evidence do 393 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:46.720 you have that atheists are hedonistic? 394 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.079 Have we moved more towards secularism in the last fifty 395 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.440 years than theism? 396 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.279 Where? Where are you talking about? Are you talking specifically America? 397 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.079 Are you talking globally? 398 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.319 Basically, the secularism is taking over the whole planet. 399 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:05.920 Which I don't have specific statistics. I would think, based 400 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:09.119 on trends that there is an increase in secular people 401 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:13.839