Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasikos. I'm Dan Favalley coming at you
with another twenty twenty five twenty twenty six NBA season
look ahead. We're onto the Oklahoma City Thunder. You may
have heard of them. They just want something. I can't
remember what it was, but I think we'll talk about it,
which means I get the distinct pleasure to talk with
some members of the uncontested crew. This year, we have
Taylor Peterson making his triumphant return. I think this is
year four. Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 2: It's been a long time and the works. We're excited
to have you back on the pod as well. Maybe
get granted, but we always appreciate you guys having us on. Obviously.
It's kind of crazy to think back exactly a year ago, Dan,
when we were Jacob Niffin and I were on this podcast.
Uh just you know, all the excitement what can be
for the Thunder. But I don't think any of us
thought we'd be here a year later.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure a lot of people thought that we
could be having But anyway, follow Taylor on the Social
Machines at Taylor Underscore fifteen. Ian Taylor re spelled t
A Y L. E R Underscore fifteen and making his
Hardware Knox debut. So it's not his fault yet Taylor.
It's like he's doing this on purpose. He knows what
he's saying for. But we have JD Silva for the
first time ever follow him on the socials at JD
Silva Underscore. That's at j D s I l Va Underscore.
Welcome JD. How heck RT? We just met for the
fort in quotes. We did quarters remotely for the first
time off air. You seem fantastic just because we align
with a lot of what Chet is doing apparently. How
are you doing, man?
Speaker 3: Man, I'm doing great. I'm getting ramped up for this season.
We're kind of doing a bunch of previews on our
side in the same way to kind of get the
get the wheels turned and get back into the swing
of like thinking about basketball and being on here is awesome.
I wanted to be on last year, but it's there's
so many of us, were all.
Speaker 1: I still haven't met all of you know? Yeah, Justine,
I think it's just justin now though. Is that the
only one I haven't met? Okay, that's exciting.
Speaker 3: What our listeners don't know is that anytime we have
an opportunity to go on and be a guest for
a podcast, we actually fight each other. Uh Like with
boxing gloves on, whoever wins they get to comes out.
Speaker 1: So Jacob just has a broken jaw and like Justin's
yeah right, yeah. I appreciate you guys scrapping and Cline
because we had a two we obviously have a two guest.
Max is what it was. Yes, I appreciate.
Speaker 3: That's why Nick hasn't been on. You just loses every time.
Speaker 1: So uh oh, And I'll just remind live because I'm
terrible reminding people beforehand. I'm not texting during the show.
I'm time stamping. So if you see me looking down,
I promise I'm listening.
Speaker 2: I'm just use it for so I feel you there.
Speaker 1: I have to begin here, and I will start with you. Taylor,
the Thunder, we know what they looked like on paper.
They were I think they were a lot of people's
titles picked last year. I don't even remember I had
them in the finals against Boston. Was there a moment though,
or was it before the scene, But was there a
moment last season that you point to it? It can
be their season debut where they just trucked Denver. But
was there just a moment where you're like, like, no,
this team is wow? This is it?
Speaker 3: Like this is the team? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually there is for me, And it's actually more
of a period than a moment. But I mean sure,
like we obviously had a ton of excitement heading into
the season. We knew that they were going to be
in contention for the title. But it still just feels
surreal afterwards, right, getting to experience that for the first time.
But I think the time for me si bad. I'm
curious your thoughts is that stress during the holidays when
our buddy carried came down and we have to go
to a handful of games with him, and I believe
we saw that they beat the Knicks in that crazy
air in Wiggans fourth quarter game.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, sorry, you're not a fan anymore. You said,
it's cool.
Speaker 1: You know what, if Aaron Wiggins goes off, it's allowed.
Speaker 2: He stayed basketball and he saved that fourth quarter. A
couple of days later, they played the Boston Celtics at
home and beat them on like a ABC twelve pm
Central time game. I think during that stretch as well
as like Minnesota, or maybe it was Denver, trying to
remember they rid a lost some really impressive wins, went
on a really big win streak there, and just the
way that they were winning games in it just felt
incredibly impressive. Like this is sustainable and we still don't
have Chet yet, That's what we kept saying. It became
an inside joke on the podcast or listeners. We'd say something,
they go, but we don't even have Chet yet, you know.
So it was that stretch for me, I think where
I thought this really could happen.
Speaker 1: What was it for you?
Speaker 3: I was actually that Boston game was gonna be one,
I pointed out, Actually I was at that game. That's
where to close it out, Chet like block Tatum on
one end, through it to iHeart, who threw it to
someone else for an alley oop to like close out
the game. And it was just like they started doing
this thing that elite teams do where they flip a
switch and kind of channel like what their best at,
and for them, it's it was the defense all year.
Usually that involved deploying Alex Caruso for his twenty insane
minutes every game and they just it's like every team
that wins a title needs to have some skill that
puts them above the rest. And for the Thunder, it
was an extra gear, extra gear of defense that just
makes it impossible for the other team to score. And yeah,
that period was it. And in that period, especially without
Chet there, like when Chet got hurt, we were all like, okay,
Chet's at that time, we were like, Chet's second best player.
What are they gonna do? Like, are they gonna be
fighting for a playing spot? We don't know. There's still
the youngest team in the NBA. And then it just
didn't matter, like it didn't really, it didn't matter, and
they just kept winning and winning and winning, and yeah,
it felt too good to be true the entire season,
to be clear, until it happened, until I was at
Game seven watching them go up to the podium, like
it always felt too good to be true because they're
so young and it's just such a like outlier season
in the NBA.
Speaker 1: I don't think I had a moment for them, but
the development was where they're just so injured and j
Dubb is just guarding centers And there was a point
at the time last year we talked about on this
podcast where he among any rotation player in the league,
like regular rotation player was like contesting the largest percentage
of opponent shots while on the floor, and Grant and
I were talking, and I think the question post was
we might just be overthinking the championship race at this point.
It was like fairly early, they were so banged up.
It was just like this doesn't fucking matter, Like it
just doesn't feel like it matters. So I am so
interested to see what they do next year and what
we're gonna get into because of just we've had the
seven consecutive different champions and this is the age of parody,
and they feel like they're built to just crap all
over the Age of parody right now. But I want
to ask you one more thing each about last year.
I'll starry you this time, JD. What was like kind
of the biggest takeaway lesson learn revelation or whatever it
is about last season that still kind of sticks with you,
aside from okay, they have the title banner.
Speaker 3: Obviously, there's there's a basketball one and there's a personal one.
I guess I can go. I'll go with the basketball one.
Is that good? Regular season? Three? Point shooting does not
mean you're gonna be a good playoff three point shooting team,
and it's it's more about you have to be a
good three point shooting team, and to be a certain
you have to have certain archetypes of three point shooters
to like be good the playoffs, and a lot of
the thunder guys they shoot too slowly, I think, and
that's something like they struggled from shooting from three all
playoffs and it was like the females frustrating thing in
the world to watch because it's like they were good
all season. Why is this happening now? One part was
because Jadab had a messed up wrist, which didn't know
about it. That would have helped. But the rest of
the guys like Isaiah Joe just vanished and it's like
what happened to this team? So yeah, there's just there's
development still to be had there. You have to be
able to shoot a certain type of way. That was
my biggest basketball takeaway personal takeaway was that playoffs, when
you're when you're going that far in the playoffs, extremely stressful.
I've had a I tweeted something along the lines of
and everyone talks about like how cool it is to
see like an all time playoff series, but no one
talks about how it is like being in hell when
you're a fan of that team. And that happened with
the Denver series and the Pacers series. All of Twitter
was like, this is an all times series. I love it.
I can't wait to watch the next game. And I'm like, you,
sons of bitches, live a high.
Speaker 2: We've been away for two straight weeks.
Speaker 1: But I apologize that your goals shoes were too tight.
Speaker 3: I really, guys, I feel like I'm like a rich
guy complaining about getting fined like Balmer's about to. But it's, uh,
it's it's tough. You know, it was stressful in the moment.
Speaker 1: Tell what about you think?
Speaker 2: For me, the biggest takeaway from this past season, and
even just taking into like the entire championship run from
the full on rebuild, uh until the championship this past season,
it's just the sustainability of sam Pressy has built. And
when we talk about that, when we talk about it
on our show, you talk about Presse's system or style play,
mark day Nult's system of SiO play, you're talking about
versatile players at each position, just like JW mentioned, being
able to guard literal point guards all the way down
to the center position Alex Caruso for example, defending up
and or sorry defending yeah, defending down and guarding Yolkic
there in that game seven like, it's players with high IQ,
high feel for the game on the offensive side of
the ball, positional size, and then also obviously players who
can defend as well, like for example, we talked about
Aaron Wiggins. There was times there, especially in the finals,
where Mark they don't have to pull him because he
wasn't competing defensively. And so those are kind of the
things we look at when we're talking about the kind
of basketball that Sam and Mark want to play, the
kind of team they want to construct, and what players
potentially fit that style play. Obviously Alex Crusso and I
Heart were great fits. The players that they've brought in
through the draft were very curious to see how they
fit in all that, which I know we'll get into.
But the sustainability of what they built just kind of
you mentioned it. Could they could keep doing this for
years to come. That's what was so impressive South the
most of me, and.
Speaker 1: That's you know, Taylor, you touch on. What I think
is really interesting is because after the extensions for Chet
and Jay Dubb, it felt like there was a lot of, oh,
this team is going to have to break up eventually
and there will be pieces that they have to trade off.
But we've talked, we've poop pooed over that idea a
lot on this podcast. But from your perspective, what is
like the biggest misconception about the Thunder's future together.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could dive into stats here. We've done that,
you know, pull up the numbers. We've done all that
on our podcast. I know you and Grant have as well,
and I've done a really good job doing so. So
I think just big picture for the sake of this podcast,
it's just it's incorrect. It's not true. Now, Like I
think there was a comparison that it was like, Okay,
see thunderstats. It's like a status account tweet out each
team's roster, all the championship contenders or previous championship teams,
and it's like, yeah, they're three best players take up
like twenty five percent of the cap. This isn't anything new.
But what's different about this Thunder team is the young
pieces that they've brought in already that can come in
and contribute. Like the caseon Wallace is we talked about
Aaron Wiggins, even if he's not quite as young. You
have Nicola Topich coming back this season, We'll talk about
aj Mitchell. Those are just examples as well as one
of the biggest treasure trows and draft picks in NBA history,
And that allows for so much flexibility. So yes, like
on paper, in theory, it'd be perfect to just be
able to have j dub Chett and share on yourster
builds around them, just keep bringing in new young guys
that are on Rooie skilled contracts and keep continuing for championships.
But we know that's onlike as well. And so even
then you trade away some of those young guys, bring
in maybe another Alex Gruso or a veteran role player,
you can still pay a guy like that because of
the way this team's constructed and the flexibility that Sam
has has given this team with the player options, the
way contracts are constructed, and just how he's built for
the future.
Speaker 1: The other thing too, that I don't think people talk
enough about is that if you're good enough, the second
apron is not like it feels like it will function
as a hard cap, and I won't push back against that,
but like, if it's just you're in it like two
out of every four or five years, like that's the
goal to make sure that your first round draft pick
isn't moved to the end of the draft.
Speaker 2: Like, well, if you have a god, that's a great point. No,
it's a great point. And because our guy Jacob isn't
here and Stillbell'll let you go. But that made me
think of what Jacob's been harping on on our podcast.
Who cares if the Thunder's own first round pick goes
to the end because it's probably gonna be there anyways,
and they're gonna have multiple first round picks for the
re seeable future, So that's not really a big deal.
It just comes down to the luxury tax and owners
want to pay that. But to your point, Dan, if
you're only in it once or twice, you know, every
four or five seasons, it becomes much more manageable.
Speaker 1: JD. What did you did you have any standout surprises?
We knew that Chet, j Dubb, We're gonna get Max's
I guess there was some question about Chet even Sham's
had trouble getting the amount straight as he always does.
It seems like, did anything stand out to you about
like the extensions that they got specifically, maybe you know
Chet not having the language that Jay Dubb has in.
Speaker 3: His Yeah, Presty is a guy that will take advantage
of every little nook and cranny he possibly can within
the CBA. And I'm not a CBA guy, like like
Jacob and Nick are kind of who dies and Taylor
do that, and I'm more of a ViBe's based analysis guy.
So I've never really dug any love it.
Speaker 1: That's sum guy. He shot four percent from threes and
you said they're a good shooter. I'm just going off
vibes the.
Speaker 2: But see how fun it was watching him shoot.
Speaker 3: But I knew I knew Presty has Pressy's always spoken
with confidence in terms of navigating the CBA, and I
didn't know how he was going to do it until
the details came out and you saw, like we all know,
there is at this point in time, there is a
separation between how good Jadab isn't how good Chet is.
And I think the way he did it was like amazing.
It's like chd is only going to get only going
to get the regular max, and Jadab has got the
same thing with some opportunities to get higher he deserves.
It sucks that the he made All NBA last season,
but that doesn't count towards him getting this next one,
Like he has to make All NBA again.
Speaker 1: Stupid one of the stupidest rules.
Speaker 3: Yes, but no, I figured pressy would be creative and uh,
this is awesome. It's like, if Jadab does hit all
of those qualifiers, great, that means he's That means he's
gotten even better than he is and he's like a
top to fifteen guy at that point. But no, it's
it works, It'll work out everyone. Like I've had moments
of panic with like, oh God, is this only gonna
last for another two years? What's gonna happen? I think
the Thunder, you know, I've I've read all the Bobby
Marx videos, I've listened to all kinds of salary cap
experts break it down, and the Thunder have a plethora
of ways to navigate it. At some point, we'll have
to say goodbye to players that that we love. That
happens on every I get it right. That happens to
every championship contender. That's that's that exists for a long
period of time. You know, Sean Livingston didn't stay on
the Warriors forever. It's guys like that, like you have
to you have to say goodbye to so that'll be tough,
but we enjoy them while they're here.
Speaker 1: I also am surprised that when you look at how
some of these teams this summer are operating on such
thin margins, where like trying to separate themselves from certain aprons,
the fact that you don't have like player options in
the jub or Chet deals. So let's just say they're
on the flat twenty five percent max deals. You've saved yourself,
Like you're paying them eleven plus million less in the
final year of their contracts than you could be if
they were just free agents or had been able to extend.
And the other thing there is if both of them,
which is not impossible, or else we'll sign the larger maxes.
At that point, you've delayed thirty plus million dollars in
expenses another year. And yes, that's just kicking the can,
kicking camp fucking matters like margins met Like I don't
mean to bring up the Knicks about this, but they're
like three cents under the second apron or whatever. That's
not actually what it is. So like they're gonna have
trouble filling out their roster. They can't sign two more
veteran players. It's like those margins matter. And I think
it was I guess people could say, well, you know,
player options, they're not part of rookie extensions really anymore.
It's like Pallo got one in Orlando. You tell me
j Dubb wanted a player option, the thunder aren't gonna
give it to him. I don't credit Sam pressI for
negotiating it, but I also just look at it as
a good harbinger of like the culture that they've built
there to where do I think Jay Dubb even tried
to push like he and his camp tried to push
her player option. Probably not like they might have. This
just might have been presented and the compromise was we'll
give you the all NBA language and you don't get
a player option, and like that's a win win for everybody.
But I think it's just it matters, and it's also
it doesn't matter just financially, just the emotional component of people.
I think we're going to enter the error where people
are gonna start to get annoyed by the Thunder because
now there are title team, so those postgame interviews won't
be as just like you know, cute Sea to people,
but like it matters that this team has that level
of camaraderie from It's not just like on the corp,
but it seems like really from top to bottom in
your absolution, that's.
Speaker 2: What you hear and have always heard ever since the
Thunder came to Okay see Dan, it's literally from the
top with the Sam Presty to the janitor staff in
the building. And that sounds funny, but there's actual stories
about some of that, and like Sam has his hand
on all these things. Everything is so structured. Like even
the way they bring in people into like their sales
department is a very similar process to how you see
they treat their young players going through the NBA G
League with OKC Blue and rising up with the Thunder,
getting some playing time here, getting some playing time there,
different positions. But I think you nailed the two biggest
things here. One and that Sam historically has never really
given out player options on rookiees engines. That includes Shay Russell, Westbrook,
Kevin Durant. Obviously the whole James Harden situation probably led
to some of that, you know, him being traded, lots
of reasons there, but historically has never given off that
player option. The other thing is, like you said, doesn't
matter jdb Chet, they could decline that want to go
into free agency here in another season or two or whatever,
or force a trade out of Okac And there's probably
twenty five ish she other teams that would absolutely give
each of them that player option, the full escalators when
it comes to their bonuses for making the incentives, but
they obviously are bought in and believe in what Sam
Pressy has built. Shay Gilds Alexander is the same way,
and like you said, just shows they truly built something special.
And Okay, see, Jad.
Speaker 1: I have an actual basketball question for you now, and
it's the one that I think everyone wants to know.
Why didn't the Thunder trade for you? Honest? This often?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, they have lost Yeah people, Thunder fans
would have been going nuts for that.
Speaker 1: Probably Chet is still one of the most fascinating players
in the league for me because relative to I mean,
what now he's extended for and what we see him
do the sample size just like isn't huge yet. And
then also specifically at the start of last season, he
looked like we were tracking towards is Chet more important
of this team than Jail when it was his Chet
better than Jail Williams long term whatever you want to
frame it, which is a question I will post to
you guys in the second, but like, what do you now?
I guess how what were your impressions of him like
at the start of last season, then based off how
he finished it post injury and everything, and then what
are you watching most closely for as he goes into
year quote unquote year four, but year three, whatever you
want to say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, from from year from rookie year to sophomore year,
he was he was transformed. Like at the beginning of
last season, he looked much bigger but also faster. He
was just more decisive in like every part of his game.
Sometimes he can he has a pretty deep offensive bag
for a guy as weirdly built as him, but that
that sometimes means he's just sifting through that bag for
too long and doesn't have like a go to move.
But everything he was doing last season was just more decisive.
He was getting up threes faster, hitting them off the
dribble as well. All that was there. He looked like
an All Star. I was like, oh, there's a second
All Star like it. It was just an obvious thing
right away. He was amazing. But a guy built like
Chet you have to be in he has to work
really hard to get to that point, and he did.
But then the hip injury happened and he just like
mid season, you can't regain all that strength you lost
by being on your ass for what was a two months, Taylor,
he couldn't walk like he could not walk for two months.
So it's just you lose all that muscle through atrophy
and that player wasn't there anymore. And he's gone on
like IG Live and talked about that recently and how
he's he's now back to the point physically he thinks
where he was at the beginning of last year, and
I expect all those things to come back. He just
needs to not get a freak injury, like no one
gets that injury he got last year. That's an injury
you get from getting into a car accident like and
then the the freak injury that derailed his what would
have been his rookie year. That's also just an insane,
freak accident. So I still have hope. Some people kind
of that don't watch chat as much, We're like, why
is he getting the max contract? He was horrible in
the finals, Like well, because of the player that we
know he can be when he is given the time
to get healthy. And he was still amazing on defense,
even it's the offensive ceiling that that is so reliant
upon his like physicality and being in health. Yes, that's fair.
Speaker 1: Also, if we've paid players based off one playoff series,
I don't know which would have made throughout Yep, Taylor,
what's like the one I guess developmental arena that you're
going to be tracking with him most closely? Is it
just we want more three point volume? Is it like
getting to more of those pull ups just because he's
so tall and being able to rise and fire over
those guys? Is it something else? What are you looking for?
Speaker 2: So I'll give you an honorable mention. I'll give you
my answer, honorable men with three point shot, Like Silva said,
he was off to a great start before that hip
injury against Golden State to start the season last year
was hitting him at a higher clip. His shot had
a little more arc there, his release was quicker, and
a lot of that was because he had his legs
under him. So when he came back post injury, like
Silva just talked, just talked about, he could just tell
his legs were shot. He's still trying to get back
into game shape, but also just doesn't have that strength.
So if you look at a lot of his shot
attempts in the finals and throw out the playoffs, a
lot of them were kind of like lying drives. I
think he even had like a brick. I'm trying to
remember what series that was, but it was just way
off right. So Honorable mentioned to the three point shot.
But I think something that we've talked about with chet,
you know, Silva mentioned getting to watch him. We talked
pre podcast, pre recording about getting to go and watch
him in summer league, his rookie year before that injury
against Lebron in the Pro Am. And one thing that
stood out to us then that is still true today
is he does struggle handling the ball, and that means
getting downhill to the basket, that means distributing. But he's
also player, and again talk so much about press ball,
but the type of player you want to have the
ball in his hands, let him just rip it off
the rim, start pushing the ball. In transition, you also
want him attacking the rim at the top of the
key when he gets the ball in his hands. And
so what you've seen opposing teams and coaches go to
is putting a smaller guard defender on him that allows
them to be able to pick his dribble right results
in steals and turnovers. But during that same stretch where
the three point shot also looks better, his handle was
as well, and the strength that he was going to
the rim getting to the free throw line was significantly improved.
So the hope is after this offseason of full health,
we'll get back to that level and be able to
continue to improve at it. But I think for me
that's the next big step, and chet's a big next
evolution in chess offensive game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you have to be right, just because
like even the pump and go stuff that he would
be able to do if the handle's better, and just
the chaots you don't even need a great handle part
of the Thunders offense because the chaos that they'll be
able to inflict on the defenses. But I also think
like the getting to the rim element would be great.
But I think he could leverage just his size and
like can he turn those pumping drives but like he's
pulling up in those drives or it's like can you
even do like the christaps porzingis thing? Where's the stand
still pull up catching shit? I don't need to see
chet on the block for thirteen fourteen possessions a game,
But like, I think that that's something he could probably
lean a little bit more on. And I also wonder
if like those are the types of shots that maybe
would be easier on his body. Then where if you
are going to try and drive or roll and get
all the way to the basket like that is going
to extract a physical toll. And he just as Jad
said before, he's dealing with these freak injuries. I'm just
trying to keep him out as harm's way as long
as possible at this point. Yeah, how worried Taylor are
we about the JDub wrist issue? Just because it was
to his shooting hand, was it not?
Speaker 3: It was?
Speaker 2: And so again J Dub he does these YouTube blogs
that him and his like kind of inner circle put out,
and because it was mentioned in Sam Presci's Sexy interview,
he went ahead and address it because he was getting
so many questions about it. He was like, I wasn't
gonna say anything, but here's the deal. It happened in
Phoenix late in the season, right before the playoffs. I
had to start playing through it. It was brutal. I'm
getting multiple shots each game that I can I'm you know, numbing,
like all the different things. He's like going through different
wraps trying to find the right thing. And he said
basically like, thank goodness we swept Memphis because I needed
that extra time with the training staff to readjust and
relearn how to shoot the basketball. He was like, instead
of like catch and shoot, like using your fingertips like
you usually do with your you know, your wrist positioned,
he basically had to like use his arm to position
his hand under the ball to be able to get
enough arc and to be able to get a shot off.
Just some crazy stuff like that dribbling with one hand.
So it's incredible what he was able to do with
one wrist. I'm not overly concerned though. It's an injury.
I think that he's already progressing through going through his rehab.
Even saw him like post a video of him already
taking his his cast or his wrap off or whatever.
It will take some time, but he's got that time.
So long as he stays healthy, I think he'll get
right back into form. And based off what we saw
those last couple of rounds of the playoffs, especially the finals,
that is scary for the rest of the league. If
you have a Jadab two hands ready to go.
Speaker 1: Jad what's the next step for Jill was and also
is he's just gonna come back and like just be
a whiz with his left now.
Speaker 3: I have to think that him like still being very
effective with only like one and a half hands has
to give him at least like some confidence that he
can score in a number of different ways. That was
kind of my biggest thing for Jadab as a point
of improvement, was like being a go to scorer. That is, like,
if you're a star player, which he has become, you
do have to be It's like, if Sja is getting
triple teamed, what can you do for us in this?
Can you manufacture a bucket out of nowhere? That's kind
of the stuff I still look for with him, and
I was looking for all last playoffs before I realized,
oh yeah, he doesn't have one one of his hands
his numb and not working. So it was still amazing
what he was able to accomplish. But that would be
it for Jada. It's scoring off the dribble, taking more
threes especially, uh, that was I was complaining all playoffs.
Why an't you take going more threes? Why it makes sense?
But yeah, he is. He has all the talent in
the world to be more of like the earlier Paul
George shot archetype of guy of like guys jumbo wing
jumbo wing, like his Judy mechanics look amazing, just take
take more. But he is more of a power player
than Paul George. Ever, yeah, sure, he's more in like
the Jimmy Butler archetype. I think.
Speaker 2: Well, and speaking of power, Silva, that's my biggest thing
for Jadab. We taught we had the same exact conversation
about Shae Guilis Alexander here a couple of seasons ago
before the season on our show and said, for Shay
to reach stardom, he's going to have to find a
way to get to the free throw line. People are
going to laugh at that as they're listening to this
right now in hindsight, but that was the truth, and
he did that that next season and was then the
MVP conversation for the first time. Jadab has to be
able to utilize that size. He has the ball handling
ability in comparison like Chet that we just talked about.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He obviously has the power to get downhill. He's got
to find a way to be able to draw contact,
to get the calls and be all finish your contact
to get to his free throw line.
Speaker 1: I do it just feels like if his pull up
jumper and I think, what was he like forty eight
percent on pull up twos last year, it feels like
his pull up jumper could just be like a little
more efficient that there's just gonna be some like really
inflammatory talk about and I mean from beyond the arc too.
I think he was at thirty percent on pull up
threes last year. If that's like a number, whereas effective
field goal percentage is like in the mid fifties or
higher than that, I feel like there's gonna be a
lot and we've already had them on this podcast because
Grant is like in love with Jada, they might have
gone that they might have the same Alma Mado. Who knows,
but that like, it feels like we're very close to Oh,
is Jalen Williams a top ten player type of talk?
If that's something that he does, which does kind of
leave me my next question though, and I'll throw it
to you first, Taylor, will there ever be like, is
the debate between Chet and Jalen? Is it already over?
Is there room for it to continue? Is it one
that even thunder fans are gonna like have or is
this what people like myself are going to talk about
where we have that ten thousand foot view of everything.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll give you my pres d speak, my thunder speak,
just in case anybody's listening. They don't care internally, right,
Jadub and Chet, neither of them care. Shay Gillis Alexander
doesn't have a preference. Nobody on the roster, nobody on
the coaching staff has a preference. It doesn't matter whoever
has the ball they trust to make the right decisions,
to make the right plays on any given night. And
sometimes it's going to be Chet Hungren. Sometimes it's going
to be SGA. Sometimes it's going to be jadab or
like we saw I believe game five of the Minnesota
Timberwold series. Sometimes it's going to be all three internally,
not debate amongst Thunder fans. Yeah, I mean, there's always
going to be some of that who do you prefer more?
But it's all in good fun. But as national narratives do,
and like we know with the big outlets, media outlets,
those conversations are always going to happen. But I will
say this, Grant's going to love me for this. I
am on record on the uncontested I believe two summers
ago now saying that whenever the Thunder won their champion,
their first championship with this era of the Thunder, Jaylen
Williams would shake Giles Alexander's one bee on the team
like up there tied for best player. What I failed
to also predict was Gills Alexander becoming one of the
best players in the world. So I think there's still
a pretty clear divide between number one and number two
on the Thunder. But that being said, it's just incredible
what ch he has been able to develop into. And
just like you mentioned with his shooting, his shot creation
is still whenn't surprise me if he's the second best
player long term for this era of the Thunder.
Speaker 1: What about you, j d Where are you out on that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked pretty pod about how much I loved
Chet and that's just something so enticing about a player
of his archetype on a seven footer that can dribble, pass, shoot,
be one of the best defenders in the NBA. Like
I think Chet is like a top five defender in
the NBA, And if he could just channel the offense
and continue to develop his slender man esque body, that's
where it's like, yeah, he could be better than Jada
is higher, but we're also seeing that the floor is lower.
Jada does feel like more of a sure thing at
this point in time. And I think your average thunderfan
would say, yeah, Jadab's second best guy, and we hope
Chet can stay healthy. That's kind of it's kind of
the thing there. But I'm still fascinated by by Chat personally.
Speaker 1: As you should be. I would probably, uh, I wouldn't.
Probably I lean towards j Dub because I'm always going
to gravitate towards people that have more control over the offense. Yeah,
it's just something that I like, That's just what my
eyes are attracted to, I guess. And then also, as
you mentioned, the floor with Chet and the injuries like that,
stuff can all get kind of bizarre, and I there's
room for him to improve as a passer though, and
he is I think the art Maybe the strongest argument
for him is Chet's the bigger anomaly for what he is.
Like Jay dubb is, Okay, what he could do defensively
is just yeah, that stands out for someone who's six
five sixty six whatever he is. But like Chet is
a seven footer who in theory on offense like can
just play like a wing.
Speaker 3: Or a Yeah, he's a more rare archetype of player.
And that's that's gonna be uh, it's that's the more
fascinating player. Jadab is like obviously amazing and has already
made an NBA team and an All Star team and
an All Defense team. But you have seen more Jadabs
throughout history than you have jets. What did you make
of year one of the Isaiah Hartenstein experience. I was
so surprised, pleasantly surprised by Hartenstein. I was actually I didn't.
I didn't watched much of him before he got there,
and I remember his first free throw line floater made
me like jump. I was like, what the hell is that?
Because it was because he's a lefty and you don't
see many lefty big like no one else does that
really unless you're like Jokic. He's a very strange, fascinating player.
He's like a combination of guys that we have loved
throughout Thunder history. I always said he's like some combo
of Nick Collison and Steven Adam in like a more
modern version of that, which is amazing, Which is amazing.
Those are two like cult heroes in Thunder fandom. And
I wish he and Chet had more time together because
I think that could have been better. They really only
played How many games did they play together? Taylor twenty? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Was it that I was about to say, because I
was one of my questions is I was like, so
we're gonna get a chance, assuming they're healthy together this year, Well,
we get a chance to see more interplay. I'm a
sucker to sucker for big to big passing.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely the two off each other. I mean, we
saw it start to flourish there in the playoffs as
they got a little more comfortable with some of those
big to big lobs which are just so fun. You
throw the ball down to iHeart and like the high
post of the free throw line, you got check hunting
back door. He throws a lob up between two defenders
for an ali up, Like, it doesn't get more pretty
than that.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's gonna become more of a ste
Like even during the non Shay minutes is just where
people were getting a lot of the stuff wrong, Like
they took on early season, it felt like the Thunder
were struggling. They were so short handed without Hay on
the floor offensively, but as the season went on, like
those numbers were progressively improved. And that's like, I don't
know how much they want to play Chet and Isaiah
Harnt signed together when Shay's off the floor, but that
feels like one of the valves they could have. You
don't think you have anyone other than Jadub on the
roster who could help you shoulder some of the scoring
an offensive generation.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I do think we will definitely see more
of that. It's kind of funny we like had the
big debate after, you know, heading into the season about
this time last year, where because they did bring in
iHeart and they did bring in Cruso, it was like,
what's the starting five going to be? We all took
guesses and we were all wrong. And not only that,
we talked so much about how Mark Dagano always has
his starting five. He hasn't really changed it up much,
and it was different throughout the entire season. But what
we did see there towards the end of the season
is the double bigs were who started, and obviously that
led to some conversations during the playoffs and they switched
it up a little bit. But I know, like Jacob
our Guy, Jacob myself, we'd really see Cason Wallace slide
in there potentially to a starting lineup, but knowing Mark,
he might just go ahead and start them anyways and
then try and stagger, so you have one big at
all times depending on the lineup.
Speaker 1: JD. I think when you look at and I know
this scales too far ahead, but Isaiah Hartenstein's team option
for twenty six twenty seven has been one of the
examples uses well, this is how the thunder can help navigate.
Like the quote unquote financial crisis that might be coming
for them. And while I do think like there could
be something, Okay, decline of team option, try and get
him back for cheaper is he I know you have Chet,
I know you have Big jaywill there too, but like,
is he really that expendable when you're looking at a
lot of the things he does, especially when it comes
to his presence on the glass, the physicality he brings
up front, the way he can insulate Chet against some
of those defenses. I just feel like people are kind
of writing off the Yeah, like the thunder can just
get rid of him, and like that's how they're going
to navigate some of this financial crunching.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you make a really good point, and that has
been kind of the biggest, my biggest concern, where like
you said, like, yeah, we can, we can avoid it
by just declining the player option and see a lady, iHeart,
we loved you while you were he don't need you anymore.
It is more complicated than that, though. He is super
super valuable to the team, and that's why they spent
what was it fifteen sober was picked fifteen I believe, Yeah,
that's why they picked him because it's like he's gonna
be our next Heartenstein in two years. Well maybe not,
we'll see, but no, I mean, with Chet's history, you
do need a different guy. It's the peanut butter and
jelly scenario. Iheart's peanut butter. Jada Check can be the jelly,
and I love Jay, will love him to death, But
I don't know if he's a high minute backup center
in that way, he works better as a third big
I think agreed.
Speaker 1: Let's talk Kayson Wallace. I don't know if you guys
have heard the latest Zach Lowe episode, and I was
just shocked to hear this name come up. And to
be fair, it was in the tier of players who
he could see having an outside chance of doing this.
Cason Wallace was a most improved player can for him? Yeah,
that just I assign a lot of value to opportunity
when it comes to that award, And I just don't
see Case and Wallace ever having it, at least the
way it's currently constructed, or unless catastrophe strikes in the
form of injuries. But what is the actual next I
think it's easy to boil it down to a case
watch just hit your corner threes again. And like we're
golden here, but Taylor, like what is the next what
are the next steps for him or what is his
ceiling within this core?
Speaker 2: So I think you nailed that. The biggest factor here
is just the way that this team is constructed. It
does make it difficult to not only find playing time
for all these prospects, but also to get the ball
in their hands. That's exactly case and Wallace's next evolution,
especially offensively, we know he's a great defender. We know
he'll continue to improve. He's never going to be a
Jada that can guard one through five, but he's going
to be a lockdown you can guard one through the
wave of exactly not versatile enough, sorry, Case, but he's
absolutely going to be a lockdown defender, maybe an elite
definit perimeter defender who can guard went through three. We
know that's going to improve. Offensively, I think he's always
going to be the guy who probably can be a
little streaky from outside, but like you said, can always
fit that three and d roll. But I think with
the thunder really see with him. And if you look
back at his high school tape and then you look
back to that Kentucky season, his rookie year or his
freshman year where they have the injury, so Cason was
forced to play a little more point guard like he
did growing up. That's the next evolution and we saw
a little bit of that down the latter part of
the season, a little less in the playoffs, but him
bring the ball up and actually initiating getting Shae freed
up so that way he can come up and get
the ball. I mean, you talked about Dan, but those
second units when you don't have Shay and he went
dub to be the primary score and maybe he's taken
on a little too much responsibility being the primary distributor
with the ball in his hands. Like having a player
like at Cason Wallace or an Aj Mitchell which we're
about to get into who can step up and do
that for this team is huge. So I think for me,
that next step in Cason's evolution, I mean, we know
he can.
Speaker 3: Get to the room.
Speaker 2: He's explosive as well, it's going to be the ball handling.
Now to your point, can he get enough reps to
really be able to take that leap this season?
Speaker 1: Jad? Do you think he's able to get there? When
looking at and I would agree with all the playmaking stuff.
Taylor said, do you think he can be like if
he's going against a defense that's tilted or he's in transition.
I have no question when you're looking at him trying
to run a half court offense, do you think that
he has that in him? Is it still? We haven't
seen enough of that? I mean, like he had some
good moments in Summer League this year, but like, where
do you, like, do you see that level in him?
Speaker 3: I don't know if I see like the primary initiator stuff.
He's always been in the Drew Holliday archetype of guard.
Where he is if he's your second guard out there
doing the secondary playmaking. Hell, yes, we're feeling good. And
I don't think he's gonna be the primary ballhanded if
he was, if he was able to do that, that's
a player I worry about being able to afford, to
be honest, if he can do so much other stuff.
And I think the Thunder might also feel that way,
and that's why they've added a couple of other guys
that are really good off the dribble and really good
at the playmaking aspect that I know we'll talk about
later in this show. Yeah, I love Cason Wallace. Amazing defender,
amazing transition player, amazing just attacking closeouts. The shooting is
streaky playmaking. I'm not totally sold on, and I think
that's okay, that's okay he can be I mean, Caruso
doesn't do that for us now. He could be an
iteration of that. Lou Dort doesn't do that now, and
he can be an iteration of that.
Speaker 1: I feel like lou Dort thinks he can do that
though he does.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, he does that.
Speaker 2: Man has the utmost confidence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he Jady, you mentioned being worried about if Caseon
Wallas does actually become like his highest end outcome affording him.
I think one of the things that really helps out
the Thunders at this point, AJ Mitchell is going to
pay them to play for the team for the next
like three four years.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also want to I'm gonna do a victory lap
for Taylor, Jacob and myself. We did last year Taylor
like three to four minutes on AJ Mitchell. I want
to know what other national podcast in the preseason did
even thirty seconds Mitchell. Yes, we did it. We did it.
Speaker 2: Not Hardwood Knocks, but.
Speaker 1: JD, where are you at with like the AJ Mitchell experience?
And I just I have to every time I say
his name, I just have to reiterate for his injury.
I know the Thunder were banged up. He was in
the rotation of what became the NBA champion Like that
was like insane, that's just insane.
Speaker 2: The same time and Game one of the NBA Finals,
coming back from his injury, We're all like, wait, is
that aj.
Speaker 1: Kevi It' said? You know, he wasn't in there the
rotation the entire time teller. So I'm just wondering if
he's a bus and if they're better off trading him. Right, So,
but Jad's so, where are you kind of at with
your early impressions of him and like what you see
for him as a ceiling or best fit long term
with this team.
Speaker 3: I it feels a little silly because the Thunder just
keep It feels like they just keep finding these guys
where most teams don't pick an AJ Mitchell when they're
already as good as as as the Thunder. Because I'm
very high on aj Mitchell, Like I think he's really good.
I've made comparisons and he is not this player in
any way at this one time. To be very clear,
Andrew Nemhart, I think they are similar archetypes of players, right, No,
I could, I could go higher, but that's like the
archetype I see him as which down the road when
Caruso and maybe a Dort aren't here anymore. If you
have Casin and aj that's amazing like that, that's that's amazing.
And this guy is on you know, part of navigating
uh the salary cap and things of that nature. Something
you don't think of that much is sometimes Presley gets
players on scam contracts. Because a J. Mitchell is making
like two percent of the cap over the past few years.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if it's that.
Speaker 3: Like one point five to two percent of the cap.
And Aaron Wiggins another guy on a scam contract, like
he's making like eight mill a year over the next
three years, I think, and declining and declining. He can
make so much, he can make so much more. Isaia
Joe is another guy. But yeah, it's a J. Mitchell
I see. I want to see a bunch of minutes
from him, and it's tough because there's like twelve guys.
I want to see a bunch of minutes for but
he's awesome and he showed it in summer league. He
was a he was in the too good for Summer
League camp. In my opinion, he.
Speaker 1: Was I had. I did a redraft. I was a
month into the season and I had him as a
lottery pick. To my redraft, I caught so much shit,
and that redraft looks awful. Now. You should see some
of the stuff I got wrong. And I look back
at that particular. I look at that and I'm like,
you know, I don't know if number eleven was high
enough for a J Mitchell in that trap now or whatever.
Speaker 3: It's awesome, Yeah, not. I've not heard hardly anyone talk
about him on national podcasts.
Speaker 1: So it was just funny because I don't even remember
we said something about I forget what it was, but
I just remember specifically that Taylor and Jacob were able
to talk to me for a few minutes about AJ Mitchell,
and it was just, you know what, thought it ended
up working out. That wasn't just us covering our bases.
Speaker 2: We were, I think we were saying after seeing him
in Summer League, and so you like you do what
you always do and ask incredible questions. I think it
was like, what guy are we not talking about? And
we started rubbing her hands and we were like, hey,
Mitchell time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like waiting for the Uzman jang renaissance to start,
and you guys are like, well, let's talk about Mitchell.
So these two guys, I think when you look at
the I think Jad mentioned Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins
just kind of in the same breath there. If you
want to keep the top of this roster together while
Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins are on these steal of
a deals, that might also be where you start to
cut ways with certain players. Is there anything that could
happen this season or to start this season tailor that
accelerates that process in anyway from the Thunder's perspective, with
one of those guys one who would be most likely
to but like two, what is that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Why are they doing that? Like what happened with Cason
Wallace and our aj Mitchell that would compel them to
do that? And for anyone listening, I'll only asking this
question because if you're the Thunder and you're worried about
I lean more towards Isaiah Joe here, But like, if
you're worried about finding these guys minutes, you move them
while they might still have value, rather than if it's
next offseason and they barely played, their value is gonna
have drop.
Speaker 2: Correct. And so I think the first step of that,
I think was the first part of your question, would
be just like you mentioned, especially earlier in the season,
and we see the Thunder do this all the time.
This happened last year, Dan, I mean Aaron Wiggins obviously
played a critical role for the Thunder, especially in the
latter part of the regular season and in the playoffs
as we saw, but there were so many times throughout
the season. Thus Thunder fans are sitting there, even more
casual Thunder fans who do get to watch every single
game or sitting there like I just watched that Aaron
Wiggins guy from Maryland drop like you know, he say
basketball or something. He dropped like twenty something points yesterday
or two days ago, and he's not playing tonight. Well,
the reason for that is because they wanted to see
players like a Dylan Jones may he rest in Washington,
which is that's.
Speaker 1: So funny because they traded the pick that was Dylan
Jones only to reacquire it, only.
Speaker 2: To the dump it a year a year later exactly,
And they were targeting him two drafts ago before he
decided to stay at Weaver State and all kinds of
stuff there. When Pressey wants somebody, he'll go get him,
just like we saw him maneuver up in the second
round last year to go up and get a j
Mitchell in the second.
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's just all there book today.
Speaker 2: There we go, dud you guys next year so so.
And also, like you mentioned Oscott some early playing time
last year as well, and that was at the expensive
players like I mean, Isaiah Joe still got playing time,
but Wiggins and others. So that's going to be the
first step. Do they trade a guy like Isaiah Joe
Air Wiggins this year? Maybe if the right opportunity comes
across Pressy's always opportunistic, but it's not something I don't
think he's going to be searching for. I think when
we're talking about Isaiah Joe and Wiggs stopping on this roster,
players of that caliber, we're talking more of like this time,
well maybe not this time, but like early offseason next year.
And the second part of your question. The reasoning for
that is guys like Cason Wallace and aj Mitchell stepping
up like they have and also just being able. I mean,
that's one that's some of the beauty of having any
two games in the season, those games in January, especially
when you have the great team that you do, maybe
you're kind of securely in the like a top four
seed in the West. In a random Tuesday night game
in January, you can kind of see what you have
in nicolotopitch, or you can kind of like let Aj
Mitchell expand his role and completely run the second unit,
or you can let Cason Wallace get some more reps
on ball, like we talked about earlier. So that's kind
of why I think how that thunder envisioned these thinks
and how it all kind of comes together. But to
your point, does that result in Isaiah jo or Wiggins
being moved off at some point or even them wanting
a new opportunity elsewhere it could?
Speaker 1: Is there like a challenge though, i'llow that's run to
j D where it's like looking at Isaia Joe specifically,
they just prove that he doesn't have to play X
amount of minutes for them to win the title. But
he also in theory, like who else is going to
provide the type of offensive pressure that Isaiah Joe does
for what he's able to do off the ball just
with his shooting, It doesn't feel like that guy's on
the roster. And I don't think I don't see aj
Mitchell or case and Wallace becoming that guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's not another archetype of Isaiah Joe on the
team at this point in time. Aaron Wiggins is the closest.
Is the closest thing that So it does feel like
in the playoffs, usually one of them would play, you know,
because you need one of those spark plug offensive guys.
But we saw it wasn't Isaiah Joe most of the playoffs,
and I think that was for defensive reasons a lot
of the times, but he also couldn't make shots for
some reason when he was in there.
Speaker 2: Well, so a little inside Baseball I guess that we
can share on a national podcast. Isaiah Joe was also
he Jalen Williams was not the only player on the
Thunder battling of risk injury to his shooting hands. Now
nothing's come out after the season to be fair. I
don't think Sam even really planned until he was kind
of fired up during his exit interview talked to even
bring up Jadubb's rist.
Speaker 3: Injury shock.
Speaker 1: Information exactly, and.
Speaker 2: Then he was fired up after the championship wanted to
and and look, there's been nothing announced. For all we know,
isaia Jo hasn't had a procedure on that wrist or anything.
In fact, he was at Shay's. He he's up in
Toronto right now, Thunder kind of doing their their players
only mini camp during Shay's NBA basketball camp. He's throwing
up back home in Ontario and didn't look like he
had a splint or a rapper anything on that risk.
But all that being said, I think he was battling
an injury, which I think contributed to his poor shooting.
But even then, he's not like an incredible lockdown defender.
He tries very hard, he has good instincts, he just
doesn't fit that archetype. And like Silva said, if I
mean he's he's streaky, He's very streaky. You look at
his overall streaming percentage. I had this earlier in the
offseason on our podcast, but it's something great, like it
was something like you know, thirty seven inch percent on
the season, but the majority of those would come, but
it'd be game to game. He'd go oh five. One game,
the next night, he goes three of five. The next night,
maybe he goes eight of ten, and then he'll have
like a couple of games of five oh four. Just
a very streaky shooter. He's either hot or cold.
Speaker 3: So he's a bit of a luxury player for the
Thunder at this point.
Speaker 2: He have a handful of those.
Speaker 3: You don't need to like, you don't need to play
him really like, he is a guy, just an innings
eater kind of in the regular season. It's kind of
how I see him. Like if you just need, like,
if you're trying to develop Cason Wallace's playmaking, it does
help to have a guy like Isaiah Joe out there
who can provide some spacing for you hill screen too.
Speaker 1: That's why I just like players like it. But you're right,
You're totally right about the streakingness. That's like, that's for sure.
Tell her you mentioned this before. I want to ask
you guys about some of the other younger guys, But
does it get harder or easier now that they're at
this level to continue developing talent while remaining like in
the let's win a bunch of championships stage of their
competitive life cycle.
Speaker 2: That is an incredibly difficult, difficult question. That's a really
good question. I think you could argue both sides. Probably
in some instances, like you said, the pressure is kind
of off. You know, you have these really good players
in Shay and Jadab and Chet, so that may allow you,
like I said, a random game in January, February whatever,
the dog days of the NBA season, to let some
of these guys kind of expand and grow and give
them those reps. At the same time, it does become
more difficult because as much as we want to talk
about Chet, Shay, Jada being the next quote unquote big
three of the league, they're all super young. Also, that
includes Shake Gills Alexander who could still im prove as
crazy as that sounds. Obviously, Jada we talked about his improvement,
We talked about chess improvement to begin all this, right,
there's other guys on this team who could kind of
step into a starting role long term for the Thunder.
Because they continue to improve, you still have to invest
in their internal development also, right, and so how do
you balance all of that, And that's a challenge that
Mark Danel and his coaching staff and Sam pressI have
done so incredible that we have to give them all
all the props. But to your point, it's just it's
only getting more difficult. It feels like, to me.
Speaker 1: Jadi, what are your early impressions of Nicola Tope healthy?
Nicole topish?
Speaker 3: Excuse me, the hides are really high, but it does
look like a guy who hasn't played basketball in like
two years almost, So it's going to take some time.
On the discussion, Taylor was just having, like I, I
think there are going to be shorter leashes on players
in terms of giving them time to develop in this
era of the Thunder, because guys on rookie contracts are
going to have to contribute with than those rookie contracts.
With the way this team is constructed, you know, Jade
Sgachad are going to be eighty five percent of the
cap basically moving forward, So those guys are going to
have to perform. That's why you saw Dylan Jones get
shipped out already after one year. I don't think they
would bring in an Usman Jang style of player again,
because he's I mean, Usban's in what year four and
we're still like, what's this guy going to be? But Topich,
I don't think Topich is that level of prospect. I
think his feel for the game is way higher. I
think he is pretty strong already, but he just he
does need reps. I wouldn't be shocked if he got
a bunch of G League reps for the OKC Blue
just to like give him minutes, get him out there.
Speaker 2: And get the ball in his sands, like already today.
So you're spot on. And when we say that, you
often think of teams to just send a player down
to the G League for a period of time and
then they bring him back up see if they're ready,
that kind of thing. I don't think that's going to
be the case, and that hasn't been the case previously
with some of these under players we're talking. That's the
luxury of having. And this is why Sam Presty fought
to keep the Blue playing and pay com Center. This
means Nicole a uh toepitch plays, you know, twelve pm
that day during the lunch hour with the Okay See
Blue and then later that night still suit up with
the Okay See Thunder. That's kind of how they treat
these things.
Speaker 3: Happened a bunch last year with Dylan Jones and people
like this. Mm hm.
Speaker 1: Topig is fascinating though, because I get well, I guess
the Thunder would have an opening to give someone more
on ball reps, but are you going to give them
to a rookie? And so he's gonna need to like
if you want to see him have a role with
the big club like their needs. He was you mentioned
the strength before j D. He was like better defensively
in Summer League than I thought he was going to be.
I'm just wondering, like what would be his off ball
impact on offense if you're trying to put him anywhere,
like game him anywhere within this current core. And that's
what I struggle with. It's not a bad thing. Like
you said, they have the Okay see Blue like they can,
They'll be able, They'll he will get plenty of action
on the ball, but like that's not the role that
he would necessarily have with this version of the Thunder,
at least not anytime soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's gonna be. I mean they before
they traded Josh giddy. They proposed Josh a bench role
because they did value that type of player, and I
think it's gonna kind of be like that for topic,
where he's connective, passing drives and kickouts, shoot when you
have it, when you have an opening, and I think
he's going to be a better shooter in his career
than than Josh. I think that's that's gonna be it.
And it might it might look a little awkward at times,
and then we'll have moments where he is, you know,
the five minutes here, be the on ball guy. I
think that will work. Now there's a this is a
deep cut player, but Vasilier Meetsich was a guy they
had on the team season and a half ago, yep.
And his minutes with his minutes with Jadub and Chet
and Vasilier kind of being the main creator there. We're
pretty sick and I would like to see that type
of thing again.
Speaker 1: What are your early impression of the injured Thomas sorber Taylor.
Speaker 2: The impressions come purely from scouting. Obviously, our guide, Nick
is very big into the NBA draft space. I'm an
NBA draft nerd, so I don't write about it like
Nick does. But I still like to dive in early,
so we watched Sorber. We actually were doing a bonus
pod on our Patreon NBA Draft. We like to kick
things off like in the fall and just kind of
give up preview what to look for for the college
basketball season and some targets to look at, and I
mentioned some of the guys like Derek Queen at that point,
some of the other centered prospects that the Thunder could
potentially be looking at to your earlier question Dan to
potentially be a Nheart replacement. And Nick looked at me
and he said, dude, you got to check out Thomas
Sorber from Georgetown. He is fun. And I did, and
I watched him the next two weeks and then he
got hurt and didn't play again. But what you see
from Sorber is obviously a very big physical specimen, especially
for being as young as he is. He's only like
eighteen or nineteen years old. Still very big, very powerful.
Not the best rebounder necessarily or the quickest office feet,
but a great shop blocker has has good instincts in
that regard. He's not going to be a big that
can defend him a perimeter necessarily, but on the offensive side,
and they're playmaking hub. He's a player who's able to
make some pretty sick passes. He's good at getting offensive rebounds,
getting put backs. I think he would fit in very well,
kind of in that iHeart role, especially with like a
second unit, but not quite as versatile probably or as
much of a playmaker. I kind of buy his three
point shot, although it was if you look up his
his numbers last year, like it was terrible. Just the
mechanics in the forum. I think he can eventually developed that.
And the other thing about Sorber shout out loud dort.
He's got that loud dort in talt. He's not afraid
to pull the trigger, especially being a big like he is.
So that's kind of like an overview of Sorber. That's
kind of how I envision him, like I said, almost
like a poor man's iHeart to start his career. But Dan,
you know this as much as we do. Multiple injuries,
multiple lower body injuries for such a young big, it
legitimately makes you concerned about his NBA career long term,
And that's just the truth of the matter.
Speaker 1: That's also why I know nothing, so because I don't
really dive into anyone who's not like a top prospect
until summer league because he's not in some league and
gets injured zero priors with him. But when I see
them take a big j D, I'm like, you know,
they just they have a lot of injuries up front.
Like just looking at Chet's history, if I say Heartenstein's
ever dealing with anything like that's someone who could technically
actually play. Not anymore though, So like that's like kind
of a bummer too. And so then when you stack
on as Taylor was saying, the lower body injuries, I
guess that's a that's definitely a red flag.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. So you're gonna see more J J.
Will Jalen Williams this season. You're going to see more
Kenwick Williams at the five, which is still crazy if
they do that and they're good at.
Speaker 1: The statue built yet what's his status?
Speaker 3: There's the plans are in place, it'll be a couple
of years from now. Yeah, and you might even see
there's a guy we might talk about a bit later.
I think it'd be cool if he saw him at
the five. But actually I could see him playing some
ran like five minutes at the five every once in
a while. Yeah, it sucks for Sorber. Dude, I was
I was pumped because he's a really exciting style of
player in the Thunder. It feels like, I just I
feel good when Presty drafts somebody he's had so many hits,
I'm like, hell, yeah, I can just be excited about
this guy and it'll probably go well. You have seen
more videos of Thomas Silber dancing on TikTok than I
have seen him playing basketball.
Speaker 1: At this point, I have seen zero Thomas Sober dancing
on TikTok videos. It's look, it's not as big of
a deal to this team, So I'm not trying to
sound the alarm there. But when you're really trying to
make sure that you can continue replenishing, like the rotation
with these younger guys, when you lose an entire year,
like it increases the urgency with which you develop them
when they come back, or like you just need to
be prepared to make a decision on them after two
years worth's of samples rather than whether it's the GV
or the NBA, rather than retire three years, because like
that's the way the extension of eligibilities work JD. How do
you feeling about Brooks Barnheiser. He was a summer league
favorite of mine. I'm not gonna lie, so no pressure
to just, you know, throw a bunch of platitudes out.
Speaker 2: I saw some of the praise you and grant were
thrown at him.
Speaker 3: Pretty good, damn it. He's pretty exciting. I hope he
gets minutes. I hope he gets minutes, and I hope
he studies under at the altar of Kenrich Williams because
I think they could be similar archetypes of players long term.
You know, Brooks brings physicality that the team still needs
because it is the Thunder, a pretty thin, more agile
than than powerful team top to bottom, and Brooks and
Kenrick Williams they can bring that necessary energy. I think
he's gonna play a lot in the G League. I
say this, I said this about aj Mitchell, so I
could be totally wrong. I don't know how many minutes
he's actually gonna get this season, but I I like
the shot is the shot needs a lot of work.
That's kind of the the big thing for him. But
he's exciting.
Speaker 2: He's just physical and like Sylvia you mentioned, he has
the dog mentality. He's not afraid to muck it up
on the defensive end of the floor. He's obviously not
afraid to drive to the rim. He's explosive. We saw
some big time dunks from him in Summer League, but
the three point shot is a little brutal. So he's
definitely a guy that you're going to see play with
the OKC Blue quite a bit the majority. But he's
also a guy that probably is going to get a
random game now and then where he has like ten
minutes off the bench, just depending on the opponent and
the development plan that the coaching staff and the organization
puts in place for he shoots players. So they'll be
fun to just watch his growth and improvement and see
where he could potentially fit long term. When we're at
this point now, you know, a year from now.
Speaker 1: If you can trust him to hit a set three
point shot, I will say some incandesc and things about yes,
I just and even now, it's just like he's probably
the rookie who's most likely to play fewer than twenty
minutes but still finished with zero fouls and five steals
or something like that. Yeah, So I don't watch a
lot of G League stuff, So I hope that he
just gets some random run with the thunderver so I'll
go back and check it out. I think that's the
one I didn't know. Again, I wouldn't need I'm gonna neat.
Speaker 2: The Brooks Barn alert turn it over.
Speaker 1: To I think he's going to be just someone that
we look back, we meeting people who aren't in like THEO. Okay,
so he'd be like fucking thunder did it again. I
really think that he's gonna end up being that type
of player.
Speaker 3: They seem to have found an archetype of guy. They
guy they like like the chaos ball, can get you
three steals in two minutes type of guy. We'll figure
out the offense down the road. But that they I mean,
if he can. Caruso was like, I know he's another
white guy, but like, can you can you just study
under Caruso and Kendons Williams and do some of that
when when you come in, Like that'd be amazing.
Speaker 1: I was putting together my notes for this podcast and
I just didn't have anything on Shay. So I when
I ask a question about Shay that has nothing to
do with Shae, it still feels like there's room for
improvement on this offense where things can still get boggy
sometimes when he's floor a lot of the times when
he's off Taylor, what does that look like for this
team next year? And I present that with the caveat
of like some of the numbers without Shay by the
end of last year were really offensively ended up being
really really good when you started mixing and matching the
J Dub chet Isaiah Hartenstein of it all.
Speaker 2: When Check came back, things changed dramatically. We have a
caliber of that a player of that caliber to be
able to insert back into that second lineup and also
being able to stagger two players and two bigs and
I Heart and Chet that changed a lot. Also, I'm
glad you mentioned that, Dan, because a lot of the
times it felt like the player who was kind of
being staggered. I mean, we saw some Chet, but I
Heart would come in with with J Dubb in that
second unit, and that provided, even though it wasn't at
the point guard position, another facilitator on the floor to
help free up JDub. So that's definitely something to keep
an eye on. But like I mentioned, with guys like
I mean, I don't know if Cason Wallace necessarily is
going to be like lead point guard when Jadub's in
the game, They're going to have JDub bring the ball up.
But Aj Mitchell, for example, we've talked a lot about him,
like that's just another ball handler to be able to
bring the ball up. Get JDub off ball so that
you can free him up and allow him to score
more easily. That in itself is going to improve the
efficiency obviously of those second units are of those non
shade minutes. And then just Chet improving offensively. I mean,
like you said you have it here in the notes,
Really it's going to come down to internal development and
then just finding the right fits and the right schemes,
which we trust Mark to do.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: I think the internal development of guys like the big
dogs like Chet and j Dubb, but also the improvement
of guys like we've talked about with AJ Mitchell's and
Case and Wallace's could really help those non shave minutes.
Speaker 1: Jady, are we stilling our responded Jangstock officially? Or what's
says that? Is he still on this team after the
trade deadline? What happens here?
Speaker 3: I stold my stock two years ago. I get me
out of there. Yeah, no, I wouldn't be shocked if
he gets traded this season or moved, they move on
from him. At some point in Presti's end of season conference,
he still seemed high on him. He was like, yeah,
we knew would take a long time for Usban. It's like,
I'm tired of it. I hate watching him play.
Speaker 2: Just Pressy's also notorious for like doing those shoutout intentionally
and then I don't want to say a mind game,
but it's like how he kind of us it as
motivation to help like Busto's kind of players, while also
like when you have like Russell Westbrook for example, sometimes
like trying to bring him back down to earth a
little bit because he already has that mentality guy like
Usmann Jeny, you really kind of have to fire up
a little more. And I think that that external encouragement
maybe it was a form of encouragement for him.
Speaker 3: Sola. Yeah, I get frustrated watching players that it just
seems like they're not trying hard enough, they're not playing
with enough physicality, they're not buying in in the same
way everyone else is, and it just feels like it's
like he's never jumping as high as he can, or
running as fast as he can, or doing anything as
hard as he can. So I just like, get me
out of here. I hate it.
Speaker 2: I think that's kind of the consensus we've come to
on the podcast with Oose and and to his like,
it's not a discredit to him as a person or
I don't know, I'm not trying. He's a great character guy,
Like he's great in the locker room. It's like it's
not like he's out there not trying. He just unfortunately,
there's certain traits that can't just be learned. Physicality is
a part of that, especially with a player of his size,
has to be more physical. He's going to be able
to compete and be out there on built ins of
the court. You see it in flashes. He's trying, but
it just doesn't come natural to him, and unfortunately he's
not going to get playing time on the Thunder if
he's unable to do that.
Speaker 1: Me from twenty twenty three is good it right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, both I Swawann jaying hype train.
Speaker 1: Yeah. After his rookie season, I was still like I
was in on him in the draft and I remember
talking to you and Jacob tail Or after his rookie season.
I was like, oh, like the thunder did it again,
Like this is going to be someone who ends up
being really good. I hope they trade him soon. I
just want to see what he would be like with
more of an opportunity, because I still maintain that that
I agree with everything you guys said, and like the
physicality with his size and not really knowing what he
could do if he doesn't like if he's not gonna
be able to shoot, Like, I don't really know what
he's going to be able to do. If you're not physical,
you're not going to be trustworthy a shooter. But there's
like kind of some feel there sometimes at least I
think that that's really absolutely you can't teach that. Is
that what the cliche says? So I just want to
see him somewhere where he can just kind of play
through the muck and like you can't do that in Okay,
see right now, because they have like nineteen guys that
all deserve minutes on this roster? Are you too ready
to enter the cookie Cutter Lightning Round portion of the podcast?
Do it?
Speaker 3: Hell? Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, So when you look at this roster. Let's start
with you, JD. What do you view as its single
biggest need Shooting?
Speaker 3: I would say shooting that I can't just have the
lower volume pretty good shooting in the regular season. I
need more in the postseason because we it dried up
completely last year in the playoffs and who lost games
because of it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, who aside from Isaiah Joe is going to be
best equipped to Is this a Jup and Chet only situation?
If you're looking at just supporting cast players, like who
are you looking towards more than an Isaiah Joe to
help kind of remedy.
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, it's got to be Chet like. It kind
of has to be Chat and Chad and Jade f Yes, so.
Speaker 2: In I mean, lou Dort had a drastic improvement from three.
Struggled some of the playoffs, obviously has some huge threeses
that he made a swell, but lou Dort continuing his
trajectory even if he just is capped out now being
able to maintain what he did this past year. And
then we talked about Cason Walls Dan, like you said,
he has some really good stretches the past two seasons.
From three, He's going to have to find consistency. But
if he does that, that's going to be a huge
boost as well.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that they should run Barnheiser off pinned
downs and that's over over. Uh, Taylor, what's something in
so far as there can be anything about this team
that storyline, strength, weakness, concern whatever, that's flying under the
radar right now you think deserves more of a spotlight.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, flying under the radar. That's tough because they did
just win the championship, so it feels like everything kind
of is magnified.
Speaker 1: But maybe just about how they're going to break up
in twenty twenty seven, I was.
Speaker 2: Gonna say, yeah, nobody's talking of that salary cap. Nobody's
talking about that. I think maybe people are just overlooking
the young players at the Thunder, bringing in that we've
talked so much about already. I think there are going
to be some games where opposing teams and er sorry,
posing cool teams. Yes, but also fan bases are just
gonna get pissed off because Aj Mitchell goes for twenty
points off the bench. You're just like, what, who's this kid?
Or Nicole Topich comes in and is making big time plays.
You're like, my team's been looking for Nicole Topich for
two seasons now. Like I think it was Nikai is
Duncan or somebody similar, maybe with Steve Jones. One of
them tweeted out like, you know who the Bucks need
to go out and get right now. They need need
to go and get aj Mitchell. They need a point guard,
facilitator and somebody who can score off the bench for them.
And it's like the Thunder just have him kind of
chilling and can throw them in whenever they need to.
They're trying to find minutes for him, you know, Like
I think maybe that's the most underrated aspect is the
just the depth that Sam Pressy has built.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything different on that front?
Speaker 2: JD.
Speaker 3: No, that is it. It's it was gonna be. You know,
the top of the West improved via transactions, you know,
like Houston got KD, Denver got Cam Johnson and other
depth pieces. Thunder didn't make any moves like that. But
the youngest team in the NBA is gonna continue to
develop and get better and they'll be still at the top.
I think.
Speaker 1: So this is a question for the two of you
to hash out. You have to narrow down the rotation
just to ten players. I don't care about matchups. Who
are the ten most used players on this team?
Speaker 3: I like it?
Speaker 2: Okay, starting let's go with the original starting five to
end the season Silva, So the big three.
Speaker 1: Barneiser, AJ Mitchell, Shay.
Speaker 2: So we got Shaye, dub chet Low and I heart
because they started the double bigs yep.
Speaker 3: And then you gotta go Cason Wallace, correct Alan Cruso,
and then Aaron Wiggins.
Speaker 2: That's where it gets interesting.
Speaker 1: So Alex stuff started get after seven, which is insane.
Speaker 2: Hayson Wallace at seven. So now we go Aaron Wiggins?
Do we go a J. Mitchell?
Speaker 3: I would like to go a J. Mitchell, But there's
also J. Will Oh yeah, he could be there.
Speaker 2: So basically our last spot or the last two spots
Kenrich Williams A J. Mitchell.
Speaker 3: I have not mentioned Isaiah Joe at this point.
Speaker 2: We have mentioned Isaiah Joe and so and that's the thing, Like,
that's the answer to this is Mark's going to rotate
those last handful of rotations pieces.
Speaker 1: That wasn't the question.
Speaker 2: But that wasn't the question. Exactly who do we want
to go with? Give me.
Speaker 3: That's fine, I'm cool. Give me and then we have
one more?
Speaker 2: Right? Or was that ten?
Speaker 1: So you have your starting five, you have Cason Caruso,
you threw a j in there, you put Wiggins and
then didn't you have j will So that would be ten.
Speaker 3: I would like Jay will in there.
Speaker 2: I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1: I love Kenrick Williams so much.
Speaker 2: How do we What is the hardest should be such
a TIDS player?
Speaker 3: Well, not anymore?
Speaker 1: The next last, what is the single biggest like or Jenny,
what's the hardest rotation decision? You think on a night
to night basi of that Mark Day. No, it's gonna
need to make whether it's something about their style or
more so about like, well, is this guy ever really
gonna get consistent playing time?
Speaker 3: It's gonna be who's gonna be? In addition, it's gonna
be Sga, Jada Chat and then a lot of times
Hartenstein to end kind of to end games. Who the
hell is gonna be the other guy? Is it going
to be? There's so many good options. It could be Caruso,
it could be Dort, it could be Cason Wallace.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 3: If you need more playmaking, maybe you get nuts and
thro toopitch in there, it's like, who's the other Stark,
who's the other guard. It's kind of my my biggest question, which.
Speaker 1: Is funny because that is a question of what would
be their most used crunch time units, So like, how
do you round out the fifth spot tailor if it's like,
who do you think ends up getting the line's share
of like that fifth wheel?
Speaker 2: I think Silva is spot on. It's probably going to
be iHeart when you look at just the physicality, the
way those lineups play together, and just going off the
sample size we saw after Tich got healthy again. But
the other underrated aspect of this, we all know how
important Alex Crusoe is to this team and how incredible
he is. He was literally a playoff game changer, like
maybe as good as Shaye was, the best player, most
impactful player for the Thunder and the Denver Nuggets seven
game series second round. Yeah, that being said, the reason
he was able to play like he did in the
playoffs stand which we were complaining about earlier in the
regular season, that it was because he wasn't playing in
the regular season. I mean, yes, he'd play, but he
wasn't playing. Like this is the Celtics. Why aren't we
playing him twenty five to twenty six minutes a game
he only played twenty Well, because guess what, February games
against the Celtics don't matter as much in the granch
scheme of things as playoff games. And so because of that,
I don't think we're going to see Alex Gruzzo those
closing lineups. They're going to use that as development opportunities
sometimes for guys like Kason Wallace. I think overall, your
your right, So that's going to be iHeart you.
Speaker 1: Look, Taylor, you and Jacob were We Actually our biggest
disagreement in quotes of the pop last year was I
insisted Alex Caruso was going to close more games than
Isaiah Hearten, I said, or play more minutes than Isaiah Hart.
And so now the injury is hard and signs of
availability and then what happens in the playoffs. But Alex
Caruso was I underrated or underestimated how much they were
going to try and preserve him for the postseason stretch.
And that's kind of like a really big oversight in hindsight,
because it's they had the depth. We know Alex Caruso's
injury history. It makes all the sense to the white of.
Speaker 2: Them to do that. Because I was on the podcast,
I was on Twitter like tweeting like, are you play
Alex Scrucimore. He's healthy? Why aren't he's so impactful? Why
aren't you playing him more? We want to see these
lamps together, And it's like, oh, yeah, because you're gonna
play him thirty minutes for or twenty six, twenty seven,
twenty eight minutes per game in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: H j D.
Speaker 1: I have this theory that your answer to this next
question will tell us a lot about who you are
as a human being. So what is the weirdo lineup
you want Mark Dagnall to try this year?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's that's a fun question. Okay. Any weirdo
lineup has to have Chet at center, has to have
Chet at center.
Speaker 1: Or lineup Chet at center. I know where's barn High?
You had Barnheiser there before.
Speaker 3: Could be there? We could, And I'm gonna go Chet.
I'm gonna go Topitch in a weirdo lineup. I'm gonna
go Jada Shay cannot be in my weirdo lineup? Who
else is gonna be there? Chet Hop pitch, Jada Chet
what's gonna get maybe? Maybe, No, I'm gonna throw Barnheiser
in there for the hell of it. He can be our.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're you're getting to the closing unit
of the twenty twenty nine Thunder title team.
Speaker 3: You're kind of right, You're kind of right.
Speaker 2: And then Shay's moved back to Toronto to finish his
career after three rings, like and.
Speaker 3: Then Isaiah Joe, will we ever see that lineup? If
we do, someone give me a call because I I
cannot miss that, but hope it Isaiah Joe, Jada Brooks,
Barnheiser and Chat.
Speaker 1: That is you know what that is weird? Once you
put Chat at center, I was concerned, but I now
know enough to know that you're a good person. So
as the question, Uh, Taylor, what would your pick?
Speaker 2: This one's easy for me. And shout out to Jacob
as well. Give him another shout out on this podcast.
We we love this equivalent. We we we call it
the equivalent of the Thunder's death lineup. So, uh, you
got lou Dort, you got Jay Dubb, probably Shay Cason Wallace,
Al Scruso, All Defense, Jesus Christ one through five small ball. No, Chet,
we're just going out there and we're just hounding you
for like ten minutes, just transition basketball.
Speaker 1: I think mine would. Oh my god, that these lines,
the fact that Thunder just have these lineups is I
want to see J Dub at the five with like
I guess, plus kids I'll call, even though J Dub
is the kid himself. So give me a J. Mitchell,
Give me a J. Dub younger than a J. Mitchell.
Speaker 3: No, probably not. It might be close to the same,
good point, but.
Speaker 1: J Dub a J Mitchell, Barnheiser toepitch and I guess
let me go Caseen Wallace there. So that's that's what
I want to say. Who's the tallest players that's six toepitch,
the tallest player in that unit? Maybe, Yeah, So I
want to see that. That's like the that's the fuck
you look how deep and versatile we are lining up? Yeah,
that's also the fuck you outcome lineup because I don't
know what that looks like. You know, on the glass.
Speaker 2: We're resting, Chet in my heart tonight because we can lineup.
Speaker 1: We're resting not only yeah, no, Kenrick Williams is out
to and j will he's gonna get it. He's gonna
get a little bit of a break. So before I
get you guys to make some predictions, is there any
one anything else about this team? We haven't discussed that.
You think Warrant's uh conversation. Oh man, I know if
you had a little time on Shaye, but we're just
kind of at the You want to talk about why
he takes too many free throws and how the Thunder
free throw merchants even though they were bottom ten and
free throw tenth th eight. Right.
Speaker 3: My only thing is I hope people appreciate Sga more.
It does feel like a lot of the Shay conversation
and the mainstream was clouded by the free throw stuff,
which I always thought was stupid. Yeah, but I mean,
look at what he did last year. Admired the player
that's in front of you, all the Hoopers, all the
Kobe lovers, the d Wade lovers. You should love this guy.
You should love this guy. He plays the same way
that they did. He plays a very mid two thousand
style of.
Speaker 1: Ball, style of basketball.
Speaker 3: He plays an unethical style of ball. But he's just
a bucket getter and weird, Weirdly, the biggest shot in
the arm for his pr was that Brett Usher video
that had like sixty k likes. It was just a
montage of shade like getting buckets, and all the replies
on there were like, this looks like Kobe, this guy
looks amazing. I've never realized it was this good and
it was just a random video in like late July.
I think that Brett Usher on Twitter posted it was like, yeah,
he's been doing this all year. Guys, I don't know
why you're just now realizing, right, But I.
Speaker 2: Think in a similar vein Silva the Thunder's defense as well.
Those are the two things you heard so much from
a posing fan basis they just hound you and they
get away with all these fouls and you just can't
even play against them because it's so poorly officiated. And like, look,
a lot of this has comes down to even a
bigger picture, like even outside of sports, which we don't
have to dive down that rabbit hole or we'll be
here another three hours, but just the reactions.
Speaker 1: Hold on, let me get our fact checkers. Those guys off.
Speaker 2: Grants on vacation, I think that's just the primary like
go to an eight reaction to things. He says, right
stright and tear something good down because my team isn't
this good or I want this, I want my team
to win, whatever it may be. Just appreciate greatness for
what it is, not the Thunder. Like, I understand the
league is in a weird situation, but there's never been
more talents in the NBA before. Like, think about all
the incredible people you've had, and then somehow he got
stuck with us Dan during your previous.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna meet all of you at one point, we
got the uncontested people.
Speaker 2: We'll have justin on next year. We'll make it happen.
Just appreciate it for what it is. But I think
you're exactly right Silva with with SGA and it makes
her think of the Thunders defense as well.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying this just because you guys are
on the pod. I don't I dismiss when fan bases
complain about my star isn't getting enough calls throughout the season,
the game was rigged because it's just like I've tried
to engage sometimes people in our discord know this, like
there's a running bit with it, but just it's maybe
there's a there's at some point there are going to
be lopsided whistles in games. But I just don't that
is not why your team is where they are because
Zion Williamson is refereed differently than everybody else, or Kay
Cunningham is referee differently. Like, it's just I don't have
the patience for that stuff. So the complaining about the
thunder defense or the complaining about and especially like the
team in general, where it's just look at where they
are and free throw at tenph th eight. So it's
not just the thunder. If you're gonna talk about like,
I'll be equally dismissive of Like if you're complaining about
like yo kitchen, like oh, like he's bleeding on his arms,
you can just say he wasn't fouled or whatever, Like
I don't know what to tell you. So predictions time,
where do you see this team landing in the West
really isn't fun unless you guys think that they're just
gonna punt on the regular season all together. How many
games do you think they win this year?
Speaker 3: I would pick I don't think they win sixty eight. Again,
that's that's pretty if they do. Coward genius I think
it's between sixty two and sixty five probably if I
had to guess.
Speaker 1: Brow you at Taylor.
Speaker 2: I that's kind of where I lean as well, Silba,
in the sense I don't think they're going to hit
sixty eight wins on the contract, like playing Devil's advocate.
If Nick Crane we're here with us as he would
be doing, you could argue that if the Thunder have
full health, I mean they're one of the most statistically
one of the most injured teams last year during the
regular season. If they have full health and these guys
are taking leaps like we say they should be, like,
why couldn't they surpass sixty eight? So and I understand
that the reason I agree with Silva, I'm sigdning with
Silva thinking it's closer to the sixty sixty two wins
and still probably leading the Western Conference in the one seed.
I know you have that here as well. The reason
I think that's because of what we talked about with earlier,
with balancing these young players and getting them reps. You
know you have a championship contender. You know you have
guys like Alex Cruso who are kind of a iHeart
who are kind of finished projects soon extent. You want
to keep them healthy long term, even guys like chet
who you just want to preserve until the playoffs. Even
if he doesn't have a serious injury, like you said Dan,
like he's smaller, he's not afraid of contact. He's going
to be battling down low for eighty two games. It
makes sense to wrest him for ten of those games
and try and keep him fresh, you know, or or
help him kind of get through some some nagging ankle injuries,
whatever it may be. For all those reasons, I'm with.
Speaker 3: You, Sila.
Speaker 2: I think it'll be closer in that like low sixties range.
Speaker 1: Silva who And this is a fun question to ask you, guys,
because every team I asked this for in the West
of what's a playoff matchup that is either most concerning
or fascinating to you? I just say non Thunder Division.
I don't have to say that to you too, So Silva,
what is it? And this one's fun too, because the
Nuggets proved a lot to me going up against the
thunder last year. But then like you look at what
Houston kind of did and just like the West at
the top is still really stacked. So who do you
view is either whether it's again from the perspective of
the most concerning or just most fascinating playoff matchup Denver.
Speaker 3: I still wake up in a cold sweat at night
thinking about playing against Yoki.
Speaker 2: So very commercial with made Lebron.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's that Denver is Denver's up, definitely, dude.
I mean, Yogi's just is unbelievable gained. I already had
a ton of respect for Jokic, but watching him play
against the defense as good as the Thunders, it's like
he still is generating an open look on every single possession.
Somehow it's them. Houston will be interesting. I think Houston's
defense could give us some trouble.
Speaker 1: They have a lot They might try to put Chet
in the hospital. They might.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. It's like they have a lot of beefy,
a lot of beefy dudes there. They have like a
nice combination of your your IM and Thompson's the hyper
athletic and guard SGA as well as anyone. And they
have like your bruising SHNG goons, Steven Adams types and
both of those. I think against the Thunders more frail
players I'll say, like a chet could cause could cause
some issues if there was a if there was a
third team, it's not the Timberwolves. I don't think that's
what I'm looking at.
Speaker 2: Is Lakers.
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I don't really believe.
Speaker 1: Exceptionalism.
Speaker 3: I don't really believe in that. I mean, those are
the it's markets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, the team that you didn't mention, I think
Houston or Denver the natural answers. I don't know what
they're gonna look like at this point. I assume they're
gonna look the same and that everyone's gonna play if
they're healthy. But the Clippers like they can run some
interesting from courts now, Yeah, like because of John Collins Zubats,
who's probably the most underrated player in the NBA of
the past half decade, and then having Brook Lopez there too.
So that's the day. Like if you tell me Kawhi
is healthy and you know, still allowed to play.
Speaker 2: WHI I mean where this is like the nursing home
for NBA players right now?
Speaker 1: Like twenty one is so excited right now if you have.
Speaker 2: Gosh, our championship contender right Actually.
Speaker 1: I think they're they could be I think they're like
one of four best teams in the West at full strength,
Like the depth is there. When I started to think
about it, my first inclination was they lean too far
into offense. But then I started going through their bench
and I'm just like Derek Jones, Junior brook Lopez, like
they have enough tea, yeah, Chris Dunn and so I
don't know how much those guys are gonna play, but
like they have plenty of defense still. So I think
this team, if it's healthy, they would be an interesting matchup.
But I think it's I think you both hit it
with Denver. It's probably the team that I'm most interested.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and last year my answer would have been my
answer last year would have included the Lakers. It would
have included the Timberwolves, the Warriors, just because those are
teams that if you if if you're a young team
and you're playing against Lebron or Steph or Ant in
that defense, you're you're afraid of what's gonna happen. But
last playoffs kind of showed me they can problem solve
enough to where those guys aren't quite as skill.
Speaker 2: And then the timber Wolves lose, nah, and they don't
really they re sign like nas Reed and Julius Randall,
but they don't really make significant improvements.
Speaker 1: So that's why I think I don't think they're gonna
miss Naw that much. I think Terren Shannon Junior is
gonna be ready. Maybe they'll miss his shooting if that's
like not shooting hasn't really translated to the playoffs just yet.
You know, you mentioned Dallas would be interesting. I don't
know if they're gonna make the playoffs, but like their
point guard might be bigger than OKC Center at one point,
Like if you have flag as your point guard and
you're gonna run small as the thunder, that would be gosh.
Speaker 2: Guys, speaking of sickle lineups, can you imagine Cooper and
Chet guarding each other full court, like both running point
of tax.
Speaker 3: Lots Dallas fans. We see Dallas fans a lot still
kind of living in the embers of the Luca team
that was they were like our biggest rival back then,
and they're still like PJ. Washington owns you and they
still kind of think we can They can compete and
Dallas defensively, yes, but offensively, I just don't know. You're
starting you need Anthony.
Speaker 1: Davis to want to play center, so like that's already
and then Kyrie's heard. I don't know what to make
of that team other than they're huge, and I think
they'll be really good defensively.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're fun. They're fun again, like they have Cooper there,
they'll be they'll be fun.
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is an interesting question to ask you, guys,
from your perspective, who's the most to you menacing team
in the Eastern Conference like the Thunder in the finals.
Who do you want to face the least coming out
of the East.
Speaker 3: This weird? Is this weird?
Speaker 2: This year is so weird in the Eastern Conference with
the Celtics Beam banged up with Tatum and.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I don't want to go to MSG and
play basketball in the place. I don't want to go
to MSG.
Speaker 1: I think if you're trying to play Kate the host,
that's the answer. I kind of wonder if the actual
answer is Orlando, Yes, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: They feel like the Thunder from like two years ago.
They're about to make a really big leap, so you could.
Speaker 1: Go the whole Maybe they're not ready factor because I
really like Cleveland. I think they're gonna be my pick
to come out of the East. Yea, but just like you,
I talked about this with Justin Rowan. I talked about
this with Philip Rossman Wright, who covers the Magic Yep.
Like you just feel or Land. They could lose a
series four to zero and you might come out of
it limping still. That's what. Yeah, that's a that's an
excellent point. So to wrap this up before I let
you to go, can I get one other prediction about
the thunder for this coming season from each of you?
Will begin with the first timer, JD you have for me?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I'm gonna go Chet Homegrin is an all star.
I think I like that.
Speaker 1: I have to wear my it'd be weird if you
didn't tailor if you're just like you're gonna like you
predict Jadub making all NBA, and I was like, God,
I hope not. What about what about the wallet? His
contract's gonna go up?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: I don't really like that.
Speaker 3: So I love Chat. I'm gonna continue to believe in him.
That's good.
Speaker 1: Well is there if you don't believe in Chet? I'm
just talking in general, it'd be weird to just say
I'm out on chat like, I like, what would be
the basis for that? I guess injuries, but that's not
really one. Yeah no, no, no, What about you, Taylor?
What's your prediction?
Speaker 2: So, now that Jay Dubb's emerge into stardom, I can't
say super stardom yet, but stardom on his way, I
have to pick a new underdog and we already have
talked about him a couple of times on the podcast
so far. If you guys have listened to us over
the past season or so, we're all really high on
this player. But Cason Wallace is my guy. I think
there's so much on tap potential. I think Cason Wallace
is closing games in the playoffs come a year from now.
Speaker 3: Hell yes, that's fun.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that producer.
Speaker 2: I couldn't say that earlier because I do think like
I do stand by my question earlier. We specifically asked
that question Dan that it is going to change, but
I think when push comes to shove, I think at
that point the season another year development for Cason Wallace.
I think he's going to be too important defensively and
when he brings offensively as well to leave off the court.
Speaker 1: God, this team just might be so insane. Are you
able to tell our listeners, watcher subscribers, audience where they
can find you, guys, and all the work that you
do will begin again with you, mister Silva.
Speaker 3: Yes, you can find me at JD. Silva Underscore. On Twitter,
you can find the un contested Twitter. What the hell's Taylor?
What the hell is our at Underscore?
Speaker 2: The uncontested at the Underscore and Contested Boom.
Speaker 3: Yep, We're on YouTube, We're on Twitter, of course, We're
on TikTok Facebook. We have a Patreon where you get
access to bonus episodes. Sometimes it's like non basketball related
mail bag questions, which are always fun. Sometimes it's draft breakdowns.
You also get access to our discord where it's about basketball,
or we have like a it's like every week one
of our subscribers is like, can we have a channel
for this, And it's like, now we have a fishing channel.
Speaker 2: And us go to it's the outdoor channel.
Speaker 3: He always have I joke. Now, yeah, we have a
good It is a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Hey, So, speaking of that plugging both the Patreon, but
also our good friends over here Hardwood Knocks. Like Dan said,
we've known each other since a very very early Blue
Wire days when we both joined kind of when the
network was just starting, Kevin Jones just started, everything started
doing collapse and stuff. We long overdue for us to
get either Dan Grant or hopefully both on and was
thinking to be kind of cool, maybe to do something
where we record like a podcast like this. We dropped
the first part in front of the play payroll paywall,
just you know, on a normal, normal distribution, and then
maybe for the patron subscribers, have a little bonus content
with Dan and Grant, So hopefully you guys will be
seeing them on our pod as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully, Well, I'll definitely, I'm definitely in hope we
will be able to work out with Grant. You guys
do great work. The links to their podcast, the open
feed as well as the Patreon will be in our
podcast and YouTube description. Going there and talk about fishing.
We turn there's every year, which is kind of tradition
we just started in our discord. We identify one team
where it's that's not going to be about the actual
team because they're either so bad or just they're going nowhere.
So last year it was the Pelicans became the movies
and TV shows this year it's the Celtics. It was
chosen to be the Celtics. So that's what you can
get in our discord. Is we we purposely bullied one
fan base apparently, or we don't bully, we just exo
communicate them from existence.
Speaker 2: Apparently you talk about your team.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, awesome. You guys do great work at the
Young Contest. And so again everybody, if you're not already
and listening to this and made it this far, my god,
go subscribe already. Thank you guys for being so generous
with your time as always, and as you know by now,
I will be pestering you again in the future.