1 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:18,399 --> 00:00:21,800 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The 3 00:00:21,839 --> 00:00:26,480 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,760 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,039 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at fbr LST, 6 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,840 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,359 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:41,759 --> 00:00:44,799 Our guest today is Tevy Troy, Senior Fellow at the 9 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,960 Ronald Reagan Institute, historian and author of What Jefferson Read, 10 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:54,960 Ike Watched, and Obama Tweeted? Two hundred years of popular 11 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:58,560 culture in the White House as we celebrate the birth 12 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,880 of this great nation and we take a closer look 13 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,719 at the men who have led it. Devy, thank you 14 00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:06,400 so much for joining us on this edition of the 15 00:01:06,439 --> 00:01:07,480 Federalist Radio Hour. 16 00:01:08,079 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Matt. I'm really excited about the conversation. 17 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: I am too. I always enjoy talking to you. You 18 00:01:13,599 --> 00:01:17,079 have a wealth of knowledge as a historian, particularly your 19 00:01:17,079 --> 00:01:20,159 focus has been presidential history. A number of great books 20 00:01:20,159 --> 00:01:22,159 on this subject. We've talked about some of them in 21 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:25,040 the past, and we will touch upon others as well, 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,079 but I really wanted to focus on the culture the 23 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,760 times of these presidents, you know, going back to our 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,319 founding days and the first president, all the way up 25 00:01:35,359 --> 00:01:40,480 to how we communicate and how we live our lives, 26 00:01:40,519 --> 00:01:45,959 our societies today, cultural norms, and all of those sorts 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:51,640 of things. But this country was, in many ways, obvious 28 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:57,120 to anyone, a very different country than it is today. 29 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:01,840 And I wanted to start off with that. Obviously, where 30 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:08,000 it all began, that founding generation, and what life was 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,400 like for the first president of the United States. And 32 00:02:12,439 --> 00:02:16,840 you and I have talked about George Washington and how 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,759 he set the president for just about everything our presidents 34 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,360 do today. But what was life like in the latter 35 00:02:26,439 --> 00:02:30,319 part of the eighteenth century for George Washington, the president, 36 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:30,800 the man? 37 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: Well, Matt thinks it's such a multifaceted question. We can 38 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,360 go in many directions, but I would just like to 39 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,639 talk in terms of the entertainment options available to people 40 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,960 and presidents. They weren't very different. I mean, if you're 41 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,879 president or person back in the eighteenth century, you had 42 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:51,439 two options for entertainment. That was live entertainment and you 43 00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:54,280 can go to the theater, you a concert, or you 44 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:58,039 could read books on the printed page. And the thing 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,120 about books is they are wonderful. I love books, but 46 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,400 they're also inert. The words on the page do not 47 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,960 change when you see them. The thing about the theater 48 00:03:06,479 --> 00:03:09,000 is it's limited in where it can be. It can 49 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,080 only be seen in that one place. So our current 50 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,520 popular culture are things that are in motion like film, 51 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,280 but also can be seen universally all around the world 52 00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:22,120 at the same time. So those are big, big differences. 53 00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:27,639 And because books were the primary form of entertainment at 54 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,560 the time, the American people were very well read. Americans 55 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:34,199 were much more literate than people in Europe, and they 56 00:03:34,199 --> 00:03:38,319 had a few books that you could almost be assured 57 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:40,960 that people would have read, including the Bible people if 58 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,439 you made a biblical illusion. Back then, people knew what 59 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,199 you were talking about. And the founders were incredibly well read, 60 00:03:48,639 --> 00:03:52,560 especially Adams and Jefferson, who had enormous libraries. Jefferson famously 61 00:03:52,599 --> 00:03:55,800 said I cannot live without books. Adams may have been 62 00:03:55,919 --> 00:03:58,840 an even bigger reader than Jefferson. He had an active 63 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:02,840 engagement with books. He would write, scrawling all over the 64 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:05,439 margins of his books, and he would get angry as 65 00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:09,680 if having agitated arguments with the authors. 66 00:04:09,719 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: So wait, wait a minute. John Adams was known to 67 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,800 get angry, a little hot under the collar. I find 68 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:16,519 that hard to believe. 69 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: He was the same with people as he was with books. Sure, 70 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,439 sure point. But Washington was seen as less of a 71 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,680 reader than those two. But he's still had a library of 72 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,680 over nine hundred books. He had books on agriculture and 73 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,040 military history, and he was a reader like the rest 74 00:04:33,079 --> 00:04:35,199 of them, just might maybe not quite as much as 75 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:39,199 Adams Jefferson, but books were important to him like everyone else. 76 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,319 Also theater. He showed Addison's Cato to the troops aid 77 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:48,920 Valley Forge. He was hoping to lift their morale during 78 00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:53,240 a very very difficult winter. So Washington understood the power 79 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:53,800 of culture. 80 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt about those soldiers, those early soldiers needed 81 00:04:58,519 --> 00:05:03,600 some morale lifting. It's interesting in reading the life and 82 00:05:03,639 --> 00:05:07,399 times of George Washington about just like all of the 83 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:14,600 colonists and New Americans, how much they depended on the 84 00:05:15,079 --> 00:05:20,480 mother country for you know, their their culture, those sorts 85 00:05:20,519 --> 00:05:25,439 of things. And if George Washington were around today, would 86 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,519 it be safe to say that he would be an 87 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:35,199 adamant Amazon user a lot of stuff coming in too 88 00:05:36,759 --> 00:05:41,800 to his Virginia home from overseas, from from London, from England. 89 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,279 He purchased a lot of things that the newest things 90 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:51,079 from coming over from from England during his lifetime. 91 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: But yeah, that's a really good point. Americans did look 92 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,639 to the colonies. There was a book that said when 93 00:05:56,639 --> 00:06:00,680 London was capital of America, and it said if you 94 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:03,079 were an American and let's say South Carolina and in 95 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,639 New York, the most likely place in the world you 96 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,040 were to meet was London. No place in the colonies 97 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,839 were you likely to meet. You were most likely to 98 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,639 meet in London because that was the capital and people 99 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,480 would converge on there, kind of like Washington, d c. Today. 100 00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:18,360 But the other thing is that books were incredibly expensive, 101 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,639 and a book could cost the equivalent in today's dollars 102 00:06:23,639 --> 00:06:26,959 of hundreds of dollars, and you had to be a 103 00:06:26,959 --> 00:06:29,879 wealthy person to get books. Now obviously today you can 104 00:06:29,879 --> 00:06:32,600 get an iPad with thousands of books loaded on it. 105 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,639 It's just a very different environment in terms of information. 106 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:39,839 And yes, books were coming from England, which meant the 107 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:42,839 ideas were coming from England. I mentioned Addison's Cato obviously 108 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,560 a British play. But they were reading the founders were 109 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,920 reading the works of the Enlightenment from the Scottish thinkers 110 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,800 and some French thinkers, and that was very important in 111 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,560 shaping their worldview. They also looked to the Classics, to 112 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,439 the Romans and the Greeks for ideas about what makes 113 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:06,240 a great society and how you construct the correct polity. 114 00:07:07,639 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: Newspapers too, were a big and more emerging form. In fact, 115 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:21,399 do you think that the newspapers and the growth of 116 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:27,560 these newspapers, these broadsheets at the time, had a good 117 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,360 deal to do with stealing the will of the colonists 118 00:07:32,399 --> 00:07:37,160 to become Americans, I should say, to become their own 119 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:38,240 free people. 120 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,879 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course. I mean. Look, Franklin made his 121 00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:46,319 fortune and his fame as a printer, and he printed 122 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,839 a lot of pro revolutionary writings. Also, he had the 123 00:07:49,879 --> 00:07:55,240 writings of Thomas Paine, which were incredibly influential. His pamphlet, 124 00:07:55,279 --> 00:08:00,319 Common Sense, was this brilliant pamphlet. It sold in less 125 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:04,120 than three months from its publication in seventeen seventy six, 126 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,560 over one hundred thousand copies. So that's one for every 127 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,399 twelve every twenty five residents equipalment to a book selling 128 00:08:12,439 --> 00:08:16,680 twelve million copies today, amazing founding number. As a nonfiction writer, 129 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,319 it'd be great if my book bought by twelve point 130 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,480 five million people. So, yes, that had huge impact. 131 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:24,519 Speaker 1: Well, let's see what we can do with this podcast. 132 00:08:24,639 --> 00:08:28,040 Huh right, get the word out there. But it is 133 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:33,200 amazing that Thomas Paine, of course, became one of the 134 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:39,879 first big celebrities of the emerging new United States of America, 135 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,039 and he was very much part of the culture where 136 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:48,480 you started to get household names. You know that the 137 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:55,159 as you said before, the early Americans didn't you know, 138 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,559 get to the different portions of the colonies. Very often 139 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,840 they stayed in their own spaces. But as we were 140 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,679 getting closer to the revolutionary war times, we started to 141 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:13,840 see these emerging personalities come out. Obviously, George Washington and 142 00:09:14,159 --> 00:09:18,000 Thomas Jefferson and John Adams were certainly part of all 143 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:20,159 of that, but the Thomas Pains of the world played 144 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:20,879 a big part too. 145 00:09:21,919 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you do start to have the rise of celebrities, 146 00:09:25,399 --> 00:09:27,919 and a lot of celebrities in the eighteenth and nineteenth 147 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,320 centuries were literary people, not just Thomas pain but going forward, 148 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:35,399 you'd have Harriet Beecher Stowe and her novel Uncle Tom's 149 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:41,799 Cabin was incredibly important in girding the abolitionists for the 150 00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:44,600 fight against slavery. Mark Twain became one of the most 151 00:09:44,639 --> 00:09:46,639 famous people in America in the world because of his 152 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,799 literary output. So authors really became super famous because of 153 00:09:51,879 --> 00:09:54,320 what they were writing, which is you still have some 154 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,120 famous authors today, but today you really look more to 155 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,919 movie stars or rap stars. Those are the more fam 156 00:10:00,039 --> 00:10:00,840 as people, I guess. 157 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: Certainly, as America grew and expanded west and as it 158 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:11,679 staked its own future got out of those European entanglements, 159 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,840 at least for a time. The technology changed as well, 160 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,840 the growth of newspapers as we just talked about. But 161 00:10:17,919 --> 00:10:21,879 all of a sudden, this interesting new invention, this interesting 162 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:28,759 new technology comes about along with transportation, the railroads of course, 163 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,600 changing the manifest destiny of the country. 164 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:33,759 Speaker 2: If you will. 165 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,919 Speaker 1: But the telegraph, you know, that starts to emerge and 166 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,159 changes conversation communication in the White House, does it not. 167 00:10:44,159 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, we think about the technological changes in the twentieth century, 168 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,639 but really there are amazing technological improvements in the nineteenth century, 169 00:10:51,639 --> 00:10:54,840 including steam power, which could mean you could have a 170 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:57,799 power press and produce a lot more output in terms 171 00:10:57,799 --> 00:10:59,919 of the number of copies you could produce. The tele 172 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:05,399 good spread ideas around the country. The railroad could bring 173 00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:09,799 things from two different places much more quickly. So ideas 174 00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:12,600 disseminated much more quickly because of the development of these 175 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,759 new technologies, no doubt about it. 176 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: What were some of the first telegraphs sent by presidents? 177 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,360 Who was I guess who was the first president who 178 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:26,840 sent or received a telegraph? 179 00:11:26,919 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: Well, and I think of telegraphs, I think of Abraham Lincoln. 180 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,399 I do too. In the Civil War, I mean, he 181 00:11:32,519 --> 00:11:39,159 was notified that he had won the Republican nomination by 182 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,639 there was a kid who went to the telegraph office, 183 00:11:41,639 --> 00:11:43,639 found the news, and ran across the street and told Lincoln. 184 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,759 Because at the time you did not by custom, the 185 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,799 candidates did not attend the convention. They were just notified 186 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,320 of what happened, and so he learned via telegraph. And 187 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,480 then during the Civil War he would spend a lot 188 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,519 of time in the telegraph office at the War Department 189 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,480 getting dispatches about what was going on. There are also 190 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,759 military aids would come to his bedroom to give him 191 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,320 updates about battles late at night. It was just a 192 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,879 completely different thing. You found out about battles and what 193 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,399 had happened in real time, and that just changed the 194 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,440 way you acted in terms of the president could have 195 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,559 a lot more to do about how battles have to 196 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,039 think about the famous story about Andrew Jackson where he 197 00:12:24,519 --> 00:12:28,000 wins the Battle of New Orleans after he eighteen twelve, 198 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,279 it ended right, they had signed the Treaty of Ghent 199 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,720 to end the war, and he's still fighting this war. 200 00:12:32,759 --> 00:12:35,080 And really he really gave it to the British in 201 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,120 that battle, but the war was over. That that doesn't 202 00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:40,320 happen once you had the admin of the telegraph. 203 00:12:40,519 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrew Jackson could have used a text at that time, 204 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,600 but of course the technology was not there. Speaking of 205 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:50,600 the technology and the telegraph, you know, in many ways, 206 00:12:51,799 --> 00:12:56,840 the telegraph for Abraham Lincoln in particular, was like the 207 00:12:56,919 --> 00:13:01,440 version of Twitter, you know, the nineteenth centuries version of Twitter. 208 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,519 And he spent at times more time in the telegraph office, 209 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:12,159 particularly during critical campaigns, than he did at the White 210 00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:16,840 House or at his soldier's home in the summertime. I mean, 211 00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:21,120 he was glued to that telegraph. 212 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, and he developed a rapport with the 213 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,320 soldiers there who manned the office, and he would joke 214 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,960 around with them, and they really built a great bond 215 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,879 because he did spend so much time there. Yeah, no 216 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:32,720 doubt about it. 217 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:38,919 Speaker 1: As we move further into the expansion of America, the 218 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,360 growth of America, the technology at the times, the communications 219 00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:48,799 of course change and then we have the advent of 220 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:55,120 the telephone and then ultimately the radio. What was the 221 00:13:55,159 --> 00:13:59,679 first conversation at the White House with the new telephone? 222 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,320 Each only so far, but that would quickly change. 223 00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:05,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually there's a great joke about this that 224 00:14:06,159 --> 00:14:08,960 the first telephone goes to the White House in eighteen 225 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,360 seventy seven, Rotherford Behayes the first president to have a telephone, 226 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,080 and a joke, well, who did he call? Yeah, exactly 227 00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:18,919 nobody else had a telephone. But it's really it's interesting 228 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,559 not tell Herbert Hoover in the nineteen twenties does a 229 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,960 president actually bring the telephone into the Oval office on 230 00:14:26,039 --> 00:14:28,320 his desk. And that was a sign of that he 231 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,240 was going to be an activist executive. So yeah, the 232 00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:34,799 telephone was a technology that took a long time to 233 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,519 really be the ubiquitous thing that it is today because 234 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:38,919 it was so expensive. I mean, you and I are 235 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,200 old enough to remember that he wanted to call a 236 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,799 friend outside your immediate area, and that was a long 237 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,440 distance call. Parents would look over the phone bill to 238 00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:49,759 see how much time you were spending on these long 239 00:14:49,799 --> 00:14:50,440 distance calls. 240 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,679 Speaker 1: Yes, I got a lot of questions about some of 241 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,159 those phone calls. And we used to have I don't 242 00:14:56,159 --> 00:14:57,720 know if the kids know this, but we used to 243 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,320 have something called a phone booth where you could put 244 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:05,120 in a dime eventually a quarter and make a phone call. 245 00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:08,759 I know it sounds strange, but it is. It is true. 246 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:12,840 I am told that Rutherford B. Hayes first the first 247 00:15:12,879 --> 00:15:16,320 call he made was to order a pizza. He got 248 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:19,799 it in thirty minutes or less. So that's a little interesting. Yeah, 249 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,639 that's a little interesting history. I don't know if you 250 00:15:21,919 --> 00:15:26,639 know about but yeah, no, no, I'm sure a little 251 00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:30,639 obscure history, that's for sure. At the same time, during 252 00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,600 that time, the use of the telegraph expanded too, and 253 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:39,240 so eventually we have this underground cable where we have 254 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:44,240 as we have throughout the country. We now have immediate 255 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:51,159 correspondence across the world or at least into Europe at 256 00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:55,639 a certain point. How did that define America's growing role 257 00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:56,399 in the world. 258 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,519 Speaker 2: Well, of course, you know, the first transcend atlantic transmission 259 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,000 was a message from Teddy Roosevelt to England's King Edward 260 00:16:06,039 --> 00:16:09,799 the seventh and actually, let me read it. In taking 261 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,840 advantage of the wonderful triumph of research and ingenuity which 262 00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:16,039 has been achieved in perfecting a system of wireless telegraphy, 263 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,879 I extend on behalf of the American people, most cordial 264 00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:21,679 greetings and good wishes to you and all the people 265 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:24,000 of the British Empire. I love that level, those last 266 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,960 two words, the British Empire. Yes, obviously it doesn't really 267 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,840 exist anymore, but yeah, I mean you can imagine without telegraph, 268 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:35,399 probably don't have America entering World War One. I mean, 269 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,840 it's not just the Zimmerman message that the Germans sent 270 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,559 to the Mexicans that if we defeat the Americans, you 271 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:46,120 can have all your territory in America back, but also 272 00:16:46,279 --> 00:16:49,360 just America keeping up to date on what was happening, 273 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:52,279 and you were just more invested if you know what's happening. 274 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, this becomes a much closer world. Of course, at 275 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:02,960 the time, and it in some ways isolationism much more difficult. 276 00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:07,279 How did that inform? As you mentioned World War One, 277 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,839 the days going into it, and then ultimately the prosecution 278 00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:15,920 of that war by the President of the United States, 279 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,480 which Row Wilson at that time. 280 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, every American reads about the sinking of Louisana, 281 00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:25,640 which is a passenger ship that was sunk by the 282 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,279 Germans that had a lot of Americans on board, and 283 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,599 there's collective outrage across the country because the word travels 284 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:33,839 quickly and everybody hears about. 285 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing too. And you mentioned speaking of 286 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:42,519 big ships. The Titanic story became a Titanic story thanks 287 00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:47,799 because of that immediate communication, the immediate form of communication 288 00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:48,160 as well. 289 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Look, everybody knows about it, and that just 290 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,960 shapes it. And obviously the Titanic becomes an important part 291 00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:58,079 of our culture, even too through the you know, one 292 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,400 of the best selling movies of all time. Yeah. 293 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: Absolutely, How did uh? How did our presidents monitor communications 294 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:13,279 and stay informed? What over the years? What were their 295 00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:16,160 their means, their choices, those sorts of things. 296 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's interesting. You know, some presidents were more 297 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,960 active than others on this front. Uh, you know, I 298 00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:30,240 recall that you know, Franklin Roosevelt had contacts across the 299 00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:32,400 country and he would always be keeping up to date 300 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,799 by telephone with what was happening Teddy. Roosevelt loved books 301 00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:39,599 and his his big source of information with books, although 302 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,920 he did install a telephone in always Oyster Bay at 303 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,680 his vacation home, so even when he was away on vacation, 304 00:18:45,799 --> 00:18:47,400 he could be kept up to date on what was 305 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,400 happening in Washington. So presidents just make different choices about 306 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,680 how they're going to get their information. 307 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 3: Why has the housing market absolutely tanked? The Watchdout on 308 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:07,920 Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps 309 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,559 unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how 310 00:19:10,599 --> 00:19:13,000 it affects your wallet. When is the right time to 311 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,799 buy a house? Market uncertainty is everywhere, including AI tariffs. 312 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:21,039 Is the FED lowering interest rates? Don't expect the housing 313 00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:23,880 market to recover anytime soon. Whether it's happening in DC 314 00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:26,680 or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. 315 00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:28,880 Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris 316 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,960 Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 317 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: You note in the book, it's in the title, it's 318 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,720 what Jefferson read, Ike watched and Obama tweeted. Obviously, we're 319 00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:52,799 talking about the changes of our culture and the times 320 00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:57,880 and the technologies. I am curious because of the advent 321 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:03,480 of television when Eisenhower was in the Oval office, what 322 00:20:03,559 --> 00:20:07,440 did Ike watch? I think it is fascinating to think 323 00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:10,079 back at the early age of television and what Ike 324 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,119 had the opportunity to watch. And obviously, compared to today, 325 00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:17,319 his choices were quite limited. 326 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: Oh yes, and no, I mean in some senses they're 327 00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:25,920 limited compared to our infinite number of cable channels today. 328 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,160 But he was as president, he had access to all 329 00:20:29,279 --> 00:20:33,799 kinds of movies and there are multiple networks. And you know, 330 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,079 I'm glad you mentioned this with the title, because the 331 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:39,400 title what Jefferson read, I watched and Obama tweeters to 332 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,200 show the progression of the technologies that disseminate our culture 333 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,000 from these things like books that I said that you 334 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,000 just you're it's a solitary activity that you're reading it. 335 00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:52,519 Whereas when Ike's watching I Love Lucy, which is one 336 00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:54,680 of the shows he watched, he's watching it along with 337 00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:57,920 millions of Americans at the same time, and then Obama tweeted, 338 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,079 it's a different relationship because he is projecting. He's creating 339 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:05,680 the information and the entertainment that people are seeing, so 340 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,759 that progression is important. But in addition to watching shows 341 00:21:09,759 --> 00:21:12,559 like I Love Lucy, Ike loved westerns. He would watch 342 00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:17,359 Westerns all the time, and he even watched westerns with 343 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:24,680 Soviet leader Nikita Krushev and told him that that Dollin 344 00:21:24,839 --> 00:21:27,319 would watch Westerns with him and then he would denounce 345 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,640 them as this decadent capitalist tripe, and then the next 346 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,160 day he'd want to watch another Western. So yeah, Stalin 347 00:21:34,319 --> 00:21:37,079 Rush watched watched the Westerns too, But b I watched 348 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,720 just about every Western, and the White House usher who 349 00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:43,119 would provide the films kind of ran out of Western 350 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,319 new Westerns to pride to. I also had some standards. 351 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,880 I guess you can say that the actor Robert Mitcham 352 00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:55,319 was convicted from marijuana possession and I would not watch 353 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,880 a Robert Mitcham film as a result. Could you mention, Wow, yes, 354 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,400 you wouldn't watch it. Any movie today with the stars 355 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,480 and engaged in any problematic behavior. I know, I'd never 356 00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:07,720 watch a Seth Rogan movie for sure. 357 00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,559 Speaker 1: That's for sure. Yeah, and he'd have a heck of 358 00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:15,839 a time buying ditty music, that's for sure. It is 359 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,039 fascinating to me to think that Joseph Stalin's guilty pleasure 360 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:27,359 was gun smoke. That is absolutely amazing. Did Kruz Jeff 361 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,440 slam his shoe at any time during the watching? 362 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: No, he didn't seem to enjoy the Westerns. But Harold McMillan, 363 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,880 who is the British Prime Minister, found the Westerns that 364 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,400 he would watch with Ike incredibly boring. So really, maybe 365 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,519 Villan was tempted to slam his shoe. 366 00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:48,559 Speaker 1: Well, to each his own, Yeah, that's a good question. 367 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:54,079 Over the years, Ike obviously was a dedicated TV watcher. 368 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,960 What other presidents love to tune in for mussy television? 369 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting that most presidents didn't really seem 370 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,279 beyond after I didn't really seem captivated by the small screen, 371 00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:14,400 meaning you don't really have a sense that, you know, 372 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,799 Richard Nixon felt, oh I got to watch the new 373 00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:19,720 episode of All in the Family or anything like that. 374 00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:22,240 I think the crush of the job made it harder 375 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,920 to take that approach, but a lot of them did 376 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,640 watch movies and then more serious movie watching. Jimmy Carter 377 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,039 watched four hundred and eighty movies in his single term 378 00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:33,359 in office. Astouni, Right, so that's you know, two to 379 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,200 three a week as president. 380 00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: Well that explains a little something tavvy. That explains some 381 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,319 of the gas lines that we experienced. 382 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 2: Yes, to watch the movie Manhattan twice in a three 383 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,680 week period when the gas lines were at their worst. 384 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,559 So it does make you wonder where Carter's priorities were. 385 00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:54,319 And he did say to Gerald Refshoon, who was one 386 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,799 of his communications aids, after the crush of the seventy 387 00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:02,240 six campaign, which Carter started in seventy four, so we 388 00:24:02,319 --> 00:24:06,440 started running for office two years in advance after that crush, 389 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,319 Carter said to Refshoon, now that we're in the White House, 390 00:24:09,319 --> 00:24:11,240 we're going to have the opportunity to make up on 391 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,799 all the movies we Minched missed in the last few years. 392 00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:15,359 And he sure made up for it. 393 00:24:16,519 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: Well, they called Eisenhower the caretaker president. Right, it sounds 394 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,400 like Jimmy Carter was the movie binge. He's a binge watcher. 395 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,759 It sounds like to me, we are enjoying some conversation 396 00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:33,759 about the presidents and their times, their culture and how 397 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:38,640 they you know, how they enjoyed their culture, how they 398 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,640 became part of their culture and certainly invested in their culture. 399 00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:46,920 Our guest today is Tevy Troy, Senior Fellow at the 400 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,039 Ronald Reagan Institute, historian, an author of What Jefferson Read, 401 00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,680 Ike Watched, and Obama tweeted two hundred years of popular 402 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,160 culture in the White House. Speaking of television, and we 403 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:04,160 go back to rape. The electronic media now is really 404 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,559 defining the presidency, and of course with radio that began 405 00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:13,839 to really boom in the twenties, but then it was 406 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:23,519 FDR that used radio where Americans were again connected. He 407 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,599 used that to his benefit ultimately, did he not. 408 00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:29,559 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course. And that's a really good point 409 00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:34,759 to FDR is famous for the fireside chats, these radio 410 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,160 addresses with the American people, but he had started using 411 00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:41,440 radio long before that. He was the first person to 412 00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:44,880 recognize that. At political conventions, propularly the Democratic Conventions of 413 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,200 nineteen twenty four nineteen twenty eight, his primary audience was 414 00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:52,119 not the people in the hall, but the nationwide audience 415 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,759 on radio, and he crafted his speeches for the larger 416 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,200 radio audience rather than the people in the hall, and 417 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,240 that was a transformative site. And then as governor of 418 00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:06,359 New York and your listeners will love this, he used 419 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,400 radio to go over the heads of the Republican editors 420 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,400 of the major newspapers. So he felt he wasn't getting 421 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,079 a fair shake from the report how to go straight 422 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,799 to the American people via the use of radio. So 423 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,960 I know we don't have a lot of Republican newspaper 424 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,039 editors and writers today, but that's how was the in 425 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:30,519 the thirties and the sorry go ahead, yeah. 426 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: I was going to say that that does sound familiar 427 00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:35,720 with other modes of technology of course today. 428 00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, you know the use of Twitter, for example, 429 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,640 to go straight to the American University selling that Donald 430 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,680 Trump used very effectively. But then he becomes when when 431 00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:47,640 FTR becomes president, he does use these fireside chats, and 432 00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:50,559 the way it comes down in history, you think he's 433 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,720 doing it all the time. He actually was very selective. 434 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,160 He tried not to do them too frequently because he 435 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,039 felt he would kind of wear out his welcome with 436 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,200 the American people, and he was very cautious about how 437 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,039 he did them. He put a lot of prep into them. 438 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,880 He would go through the text very carefully to make 439 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,880 sure that they weren't what he called the five or 440 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,759 ten dollars words, and he used the special paper that 441 00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:17,400 didn't rustle, so it sounded like he was speaking off 442 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,920 the cuff even though he was speaking from a very 443 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,599 carefully prepared text. He even had a gap between his 444 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,960 teeth that created a slight whistle when he talked, so 445 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,400 he would plug that gap with a false tooth during 446 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,119 his presentation. So he really took the preparation and the 447 00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:37,319 delivery very seriously. Those for those radio addresses. 448 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: Well, I had no idea about the gap between the 449 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,960 teeth and the whistle. I suppose that could be maybe 450 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,759 a little off putting on the radio. 451 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: Those microphone, as you know, picks up everything. 452 00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: It certainly does. So you have FDR really using radio. 453 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,359 And then television starts to come into its own and 454 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,519 the true and the Ikes of the world are not 455 00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:07,440 only watching their favorite westerns on TV, they are becoming 456 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:14,319 stars of TV. They are becoming, you know, more widely 457 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,119 seen because of this new media. How did that inform 458 00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,119 these mid century presidencies. 459 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it really happens with Ike because Ike 460 00:28:25,839 --> 00:28:30,279 in his first campaign launch, he actually does terribly. He 461 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,039 doesn't know how to look at the camera. His bald 462 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,920 head is kind of shiny, and he realizes afterwards that 463 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,400 he needs to improve his game with TV. He brings 464 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,680 it a TV actor named Robert Montgomery to advise him 465 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,160 on or TV gets better lighting and better makeup. And 466 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,559 he's actually the first person of televised press conferences. They're 467 00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:53,519 not live televised press conferences. They would they would provide 468 00:28:53,559 --> 00:28:56,000 excerpts for them as Kenny who does the first live 469 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,720 press conferences, but eyes now understood the power of television. 470 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,680 Obvious famous Farewell address about the military industrial complex is 471 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,640 televised and he is really more than anyone else, the 472 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,039 first TV president, even though Kennedy kind of gets credit 473 00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:15,200 for it because of his Kennedy was better at it. 474 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,240 Kennedy when he wins the election in nineteen sixty, he 475 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,119 sees a TV and he says to one of his 476 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,519 age we went about a prayer without that gadget. 477 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: I love. 478 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 2: They're still calling it a gadget. 479 00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like the talkies one day will go out 480 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:36,359 of fashion, right, that's the new technology. Of course, in 481 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,880 the late nineteen fifties in the early sixties. Speaking of Kennedy, 482 00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:44,559 television played, of course a huge role, as you said, 483 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:50,839 as Kennedy said that Gadget was absolutely critical to him 484 00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:54,400 in the debates with then Vice President Richard Milhouse Nixon 485 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,440 for the election of nineteen sixty. Is the has that 486 00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:04,759 been over hyped over the years, this idea that Nixon 487 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,640 won the debate on radio but lost it on television 488 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,000 because he was sweaty and flustered and all of those 489 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:11,680 sorts of things. 490 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,279 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I mean, remember Kennedy was 491 00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:17,960 even though he and Nixon brought the same age and 492 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,519 both of the came to commerce at the same time. 493 00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:23,720 Nixon had been vice president and Kennedy was seen as 494 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,960 somewhat youthful, perhaps callo, and he really held his own 495 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,880 against Nixon, especially on TV. He just looked more ready 496 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,640 to be president. Nixon was very substantive and did do 497 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,759 better on radio. But Nixon didn't prepare as much for 498 00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:42,640 the debates as he should have. He also didn't rest up. 499 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,000 Kennedy would take naps so that he looked right. He 500 00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:49,240 was tan well. Nixon looked pale. Nixon didn't use makeup, 501 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,799 and he obviously had a very heavy five o'clock shadow, 502 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:57,000 So Kennedy understood the visual aspects of campaigning in the 503 00:30:57,039 --> 00:30:59,880 television era better than Nixon did. Yeah. 504 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,039 Speaker 1: Kennedy also during his presidency, as we know, had other 505 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,720 extracurricular activities. Not that he was the only president to 506 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,680 have such extracurricular activities. I think of some of the 507 00:31:13,799 --> 00:31:18,319 starlits involved in his activities and other things. Would Kennedy 508 00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:25,079 have survived thirty forty years later in the immersion of 509 00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:30,519 constant news cycles. I guess this is the question. There 510 00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:33,000 were a lot of presidents over the years. I think 511 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,519 of Warren G. Harding as one of them who had 512 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:47,079 certain proclivities and those proclivities were kept silent by a 513 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,079 cooperating news media a lot of times. Same thing happened 514 00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:53,599 with Kennedy in the television age. Do you think he 515 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,640 would have fared the same later on with the proliferation 516 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,519 of instantaneous media. 517 00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question, and you know, maybe more 518 00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:04,839 about it would have gone out. But I think about 519 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,119 Joe Biden and his age infirmity, and obviously the media 520 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,240 is still pliing to cover it up. So you know, 521 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:15,640 the kind of activities you're talking about are done in private, 522 00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:17,839 so it is possible to keep them secret. You know. 523 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,640 I even think about Bill Clinton, and yes, the Lewinski 524 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,400 thing came out, but they wouldn't have come out. It 525 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,200 wouldn't have come out if not for the bizarre coincidence 526 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:30,319 of Linda Tripp being her friends recording the conversations. And 527 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,440 there was just so much that went into that thing 528 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,319 becoming public. And you know, I can't promise you that 529 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,720 none of the presidents since have had affairs. I don't 530 00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:43,440 think so, and I certainly haven't read about it in office. 531 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:43,799 Speaker 3: You know. 532 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: Obviously we've read some stuff about Trump before being on 533 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,960 an office, but you just don't know. And so I 534 00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:55,759 and with the media being you know, I think they've 535 00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:59,319 chosen a side. So I think it's possible presidents can 536 00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:01,519 get can still get away with things. Amic Kennedy was 537 00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:05,319 somewhat egregious, and I think even a Kennedy would have 538 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,000 to be more careful today, but I'm not ruling it out. Yeah. 539 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:14,599 Speaker 1: Well, the president who defined the nineteen eighties, and I 540 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:21,240 think the emergence, the re emergence of the American spirit, 541 00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:25,680 of course, is the president who bears the name of 542 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,519 the institute you work for, the Ronald Reagan Institute. This 543 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,960 was a man who fully understood the power of television, 544 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,279 maybe even more than Kennedy did. Yeah. 545 00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:44,359 Speaker 2: Look, Reagan was a brilliant communicator in that he understood 546 00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:47,839 multiple media. Obviously, he was a film star, so he 547 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,039 knew how to appear on the big screen. He got 548 00:33:50,079 --> 00:33:53,920 his start in radio, so he knew how to perform 549 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,319 orally and to radio. He was an early guy on 550 00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:02,039 television with Death Vally Day and GE Theater, and then 551 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,480 he went around the country for GE and would give 552 00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:07,640 speeches to g So he was kind of a Baseballly 553 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,960 talked about a five tool player, but he knew how 554 00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:13,039 to give a speech, he knew how to appear on TV. 555 00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:14,800 He knew how to appear on big screen, he knew 556 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,400 how to be charismatic in person. So he really brought 557 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,039 together a whole bunch of communication skills and obviously they 558 00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:21,960 served him really well. 559 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,519 Speaker 1: And it all started. I have to say this because 560 00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:32,280 I'm just amazed. It's all started in his radio, early 561 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,599 radio career in places like Des Moines, Iowa, where we 562 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:43,920 have I've heard the clips before from who Radio of 563 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:50,199 Reagan talking about when he would call Cubs games from 564 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,719 Des Moines, Iowa. He would call the action at Wrigley 565 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,239 Field on a warm summer day by getting you know, 566 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,559 the teletype coming in, and he would talk about how 567 00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:04,440 he would have to you know, wait a moment before 568 00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:06,960 the you know, the next pitch. It was a pitch 569 00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:10,480 by pitch kind of thing. So so this guy really 570 00:35:10,519 --> 00:35:16,199 didn't he he had full on media training before he 571 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,760 entered politics years before, of course. 572 00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:21,039 Speaker 2: You know. And I think that particular experience you talked 573 00:35:21,039 --> 00:35:23,679 about speaks to his ability to extemporize. And there's the 574 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,679 famous story where the teletype breaks down for a while 575 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,559 and there's a batter up, and you talked about how 576 00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:33,519 many pitches that guy fouled off because Radian just had 577 00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:35,880 to keep the conversation going even though he wasn't getting 578 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:36,719 any new information. 579 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a forty seven pitch at a time. 580 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,039 That's what happens. When you know, we always in radio, 581 00:35:46,119 --> 00:35:49,159 we always worry about the fear of dead air. I 582 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,719 don't think Dutch ever worried about dead air, did he? 583 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,119 Speaker 2: No. I mean, if you can talk, if you have 584 00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:56,039 the ability to speak off the cuff, which is a 585 00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:59,480 great ability, then do it. You know, you talk about Obama, 586 00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:03,920 for example, who was a great speech giver when he 587 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,079 had a prepare text, he wasn't as good off the 588 00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:10,119 cuff now. Sometimes people just have different skills and they 589 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,519 appear differently. George W. Bush, for whom I worked, I 590 00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:16,519 don't think it was a great speech giver. But in 591 00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:19,079 a room, he was very charismatic, and he was never 592 00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:22,719 at a loss for words, and he was just super sharp, 593 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,320 and he was really impressive when a one a Karl 594 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,280 Rove said when he first met George W. Bush, he 595 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,960 had more charisma than any one man should be able 596 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,559 to have. So different people have different skills. 597 00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:38,159 Speaker 1: And then there's Donald Trump. And Donald Trump takes us, 598 00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:41,960 obviously to the present age. In fact, he has defined 599 00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:46,360 the age of the twenty first century president. He becomes 600 00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:54,519 the first president since Grover Cleveland to become you to 601 00:36:54,559 --> 00:36:59,400 serve a second non consecutive term in these very wild 602 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:07,320 political times. But the explosion of Twitter during certainly the 603 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,000 Obama years and then the early Trump years ultimately define 604 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,360 a great deal of what's happening with the presidency. 605 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny that you call Trump a twenty 606 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,280 first century presidency and obviously he is, but so many 607 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,679 of his cultural references are twentieth century sure, things that 608 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:31,480 really grabbed him, and he's constantly making twentieth century cultural references, 609 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,400 and I think his twentieth century cultural appearances are really 610 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,119 what helped make him. Obviously, he's got the best selling 611 00:37:39,159 --> 00:37:43,199 book in the late eighties, He's appearing in movies like 612 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,159 Home Alone two where he's in the Plaza Hotel and 613 00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:48,599 he runs into Kevin Or TV shows like Sex and 614 00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:50,559 the City, or his own TV show, which is this 615 00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:53,159 is already the Prentice in the early twenty first century. 616 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,119 But it is that establishment of himself as a figure 617 00:37:57,159 --> 00:38:01,800 in the public consciousness that I think really shapes him 618 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,480 and shapes him with the American people, so that when 619 00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:10,360 he becomes a political candidate and all the terrible things 620 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,239 are said about him, the American people say, well, you know, 621 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,079 I know you're saying all these bad things about him, 622 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,960 but I know that guy from the Plaza Hotel with 623 00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:20,360 Kevin Or. I watched him on his TV show, and 624 00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:23,360 the American people had their own independent relationship with him 625 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,480 in their own minds, and I think that helped blunt 626 00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:28,440 some of the worst criticism and in some ways. The 627 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,280 same thing is true with Reagan. People would say terrible 628 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,840 things about Reagan, and the American people say, well, no, 629 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,280 he was that guy in bedtime for Bonso or sure 630 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:43,239 Rockney story. So having that pulp cup culture inoculation in 631 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,679 a way, I think it served both of those men 632 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:46,159 very well. 633 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: How can a guy who appeared in a movie with 634 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,679 a chimpanzee be bad? 635 00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 2: Right? 636 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,519 Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it. You mentioned before that FDR 637 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,079 did what Trump did many years ago. He went around 638 00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:06,239 the Republican controlled press at the time when he was 639 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,000 a New York governor. 640 00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 2: Correct. 641 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so he goes around them. Trump does the 642 00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:16,880 same thing with the new emerging social media and he 643 00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:22,039 really that's that is your modern day fireside chat, isn't it. 644 00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,159 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he goes directly to the American people. You 645 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,599 can mean, he's got I don't know exact mamny followers, 646 00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:29,199 but one hundreds of millions of followers. I don't know. 647 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,000 You can't skip it. I mean, he just he goes 648 00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,199 straight to the people, and then the media they cover 649 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,159 what he tweets or now that he truth socials, so 650 00:39:38,599 --> 00:39:42,000 he is driving the conversation even when they get outraged 651 00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:44,960 at something he said, they're still talking about what he said, 652 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,239 and the message of what he said also gets across 653 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:48,920 in the stories. 654 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: Where do you see the future of the presidency with 655 00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:59,800 the technologies? Gosh, you know, you know, we talk about 656 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:05,280 the rapid advancement of communication technologies in general, but where 657 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,719 we where do you think we go from here? After 658 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:15,480 two hundred or so years of going from books and 659 00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:20,360 broadsheets to Instagram and in Twitter. 660 00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:25,039 Speaker 2: Look, you know, my book is barely ten years old, 661 00:40:25,559 --> 00:40:28,480 and we already have new things that weren't anticipated at 662 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,800 the time, like TikTok, you know, the collapse of newspapers. 663 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,079 In some ways, the people aren't getting stuff from TV. 664 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,480 Netflix wasn't really a thing when you know, it was 665 00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:43,320 a thing, but you would getting discs when I wrote 666 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,760 the book, and now you're getting everything on streaming. So 667 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,559 pop culture is constantly evolving as we have technological improvements, 668 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,360 and I think the presidents that catch the wave early, 669 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,239 that recognize how they can take advantage of the new 670 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,039 technologies are usually the ones who are successful. I mean, 671 00:40:59,079 --> 00:41:00,599 you look at this last election. They called it this 672 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,519 the podcast election. The previous election in some ways defined 673 00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,920 by Facebook and media and what they decided not to 674 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,239 cover and let's say the Hunter Biden laptop twenty sixteen. 675 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,800 Trump uses Twitter and Facebook very effectively. In twenty eight 676 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:21,639 and twenty twelve. Obama has all the social media executives 677 00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:25,519 shaping his campaign, and he uses a lot of technologies, 678 00:41:25,519 --> 00:41:29,360 including Facebook but also MySpace at the time, very effectively. 679 00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:32,960 Bush in two thousand and four uses micro targeting to 680 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,320 figure out where his voters are. So a lot of 681 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,639 the twenty first century elections have really been governed by 682 00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:46,320 the campaign that first recognizes the new technologies and how 683 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,039 it can be used for political purposes. 684 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson could not live without books. What do you 685 00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:58,800 think Thomas Jefferson would say of the Information super Highway? 686 00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think Jefferson overall would be a huge 687 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,239 fan some of the excesses that we see and some 688 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,639 of the non serious thinking. But boy, would he like 689 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,119 the ability to access every book ever written? And I 690 00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:17,239 think he you know, he famously bankrupted himself by getting 691 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,679 all these books imported from England. And I mentioned earlier 692 00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:24,039 how a typical book would cost hundreds of dollars in 693 00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:28,639 today's dollars, so he might still bankrupt himself getting books 694 00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:31,480 on Kindle. He would buy so many books, so I 695 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,400 think he would see the benefits to it, even as 696 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,039 he disliked the disruption of the quiet agrarian life that 697 00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:38,800 he seemed to prefer. 698 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: And it is it's the final question for you, overall 699 00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:45,639 the technology, the culture, the times, the changing times. The 700 00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:52,760 president was a man of his times, and historians really 701 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,079 do have to and I hope they continue to assess 702 00:42:56,199 --> 00:43:01,679 history on that front. Unfortunately, we've kind of seen recriminations 703 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,320 against presidents who lived in certain times under certain you know, 704 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,280 cultural norms and all of those sorts of things that 705 00:43:10,559 --> 00:43:15,239 aren't cultural norms now obviously, and we've seen a lot 706 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,360 of burning the attempts of burning down of history because 707 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,239 of that. But now that we are just about to 708 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:29,000 celebrate two hundred and fifty years of this nation, what 709 00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:34,199 do you think our founding fathers would say about America 710 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,360 twenty twenty five? 711 00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,199 Speaker 2: Well, I always think of the famous Ben Franklin lyone 712 00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:42,960 when asked at the end of the Constitutional Convention, mister Franklin, 713 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,400 what do we have? And he says, a republic if 714 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,599 we can keep it, and we've kept it for these 715 00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:50,159 two hundred and fifty years, which is a really impressive achievement. 716 00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:54,800 There are threats, there are challenges, people complain that, you know, 717 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,559 maybe this is the death of democracy or that is 718 00:43:56,559 --> 00:43:59,400 the deathment of democracy. But we're still here and we're 719 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,119 still going in. I think that is their most impressive achievement. 720 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,119 And there is no government on earth that has existed 721 00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:08,280 in the same way as ours at this point two 722 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,360 hundred and fifty years, and certainly no free democratic government. 723 00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:15,760 And long may it continue is my wish to all 724 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,039 of you on July Court. 725 00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:23,280 Speaker 1: Indeed, as Lincoln said, it is the world's last best hope. 726 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,800 And it was then it remains that today. Thanks to 727 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,880 my guest today, Tevy Troy, Senior fellow at the Ronald 728 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,599 Reagan Institute, historian, author of What Jefferson Read, Ike Watched, 729 00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:40,039 and Obama tweeted, two hundred years of popular culture in 730 00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:42,639 the White House, You've been listening to another edition of 731 00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:46,320 The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent 732 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,800 at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, 733 00:44:50,119 --> 00:44:52,960 stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the frame. 734 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,519 Speaker 2: The boy thund