WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:15.080 Don't bit, it's the Internet. You're busy. Let's do this 2 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:18.359 for January twenty three, twenty twenty five. For the next 3 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:20.640 hour or so, let me help you sort through the 4 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:22.960 world of gaming on Game Mess Mornings Live with me 5 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:26.760 Jeff Grub. Today, EA underperformed and it's pinning the blame 6 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:30.120 on Dragon age and soccer, and Insomniac has a new 7 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:33.359 boss that also won't tell us anything about Wolverine. But first, 8 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:35.479 please join me and welcome in today's co host to 9 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:39.159 Game Mess Mornings. It's Matt Piscatella. Matt, how are you doing? 10 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:43.560 What? Hello? Jeff Grub, Hello, chat. This is a lot 11 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:45.039 of fun. I'm very excited. 12 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:49.159 Yeah, glad to have you here. Analysts from the from 13 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:51.399 Sircana group. Right, I'm still not used to it. Have 14 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:52.359 you gotten used to it? 15 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:53.560 No? 16 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:57.399 And everyone still says the MPDE group, which you know, 17 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.280 technically I'm supposed to get smacked if I say so, 18 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:03.960 I won't. But yeah, we merged with IRA a couple 19 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.799 of years ago and now we are Sirkana, the super 20 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:07.760 research company. 21 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:10.359 Yep, there it is all right. So yeah, whenever we 22 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:13.799 do those reports about a an analyst to send this 23 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:16.000 how many games sold the United States. Met does all 24 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.920 that work, has all the spreadsheets, gives us all those 25 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:22.280 little fun tadbits to talk about. Also, you know, occasual 26 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:24.359 insights into other things happening in the market as well. 27 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:26.319 Always appreciate it when we can talk about any of 28 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:28.799 the stuff you offer us, Matt. But very excited to 29 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:30.920 have you on the show. This is awesome. Anything you 30 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:33.840 will think people should know about yourselves before about yourself 31 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:35.000 before we get started. 32 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:38.680 Yeah, very quick. Rundown been doing this about seven years. 33 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:42.840 Prior to doing this, I spent about fifteen years in publishing. 34 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.719 Started at Activision Publishing at the time away back in 35 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:50.879 two thousand and five. Left publishing as the vice president 36 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:54.640 sales Planning at Warner Brothers Games right around twenty seventeen. 37 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:58.719 So spent a long time and everything touching numbers, from 38 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:03.879 trade marketing to demand planning, the business intelligence everything, green 39 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:09.039 light forecast modeling. If you ever said, hey they dropped 40 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:12.159 the price of a game by whatever, or hey they 41 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.479 put that game on sale, I was they for a 42 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:16.360 very long time. 43 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:20.360 So when people would say don't they like money, were 44 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:22.400 you the one that they were like probably talking about that, 45 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:24.199 Like he was deciding whether or not they like that 46 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:24.919 money or not. 47 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.080 Yeah, you know what, publishers turns out that they like 48 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:29.800 money a lot. 49 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:34.919 Yeah, fair enough, excellent. Yeah, so Matt, I think, God, 50 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:37.080 we've only met a couple times in person, but I 51 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:39.000 did meet you with like the one time I remember 52 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.280 for sure was at a PlayStation like Mixer, and that 53 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:43.840 was a good time. They had some good food and 54 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:47.560 drinks there. When you do get out to industry events, 55 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.039 like what part of the industry are you normally mingling with? 56 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:55.400 Are you going to meetings with executives or is it 57 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:57.800 just like you know, you're free to go roam the 58 00:02:57.840 --> 00:02:59.599 show floor at a summer games fest. 59 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:04.919 Usually it's at publishing events or retailer events. So I'm 60 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:07.599 always talking with folks about where the business is going, 61 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:11.360 what games are coming out, what's happening with consumer trends, 62 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:16.680 everything from specific behavior to what might be happening in 63 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.199 credit card debt or income levels or employment, like everything 64 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.719 about what might impact this market. I get to chat 65 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:26.120 about and it's a lot of fun. 66 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:28.520 Excellent, All right, Well, we do have a lot to 67 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.400 get into, so we should probably explain what we do 68 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:32.719 here most weekdays. I Jeff Grub will help piece your 69 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.919 gaming life back together. That includes breaking news and maybe 70 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.439 even some of our own original reporting. For all these topics, 71 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:41.479 I'll get the input of a bona fide expert who 72 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:44.319 will make me look smart. If you're watching live on 73 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.800 twitch welcome, You can always listen to the show later 74 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.960 on podcast feeds by searching for Game Mess Mornings, or 75 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.639 find the RSS on GiantBomb dot com. You can also 76 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.840 catch the show later with chapters and timestamps on YouTube. 77 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:00.000 Hello YouTube, All right, we have a lot to get 78 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:03.639 so let's start the Morning Mess with EA does in 79 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:07.639 fact blame underperformance of dragon Age and EA Football Club 80 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:10.479 twenty five as it lowers forecast. This is from Andy 81 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:14.960 Robinson at BGC. Electronic Guard says lowered its revenue forecast 82 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.240 for its current business year partly due to what it 83 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:20.920 called the underperformance of FC twenty five and dragon Age 84 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.959 of the Veilguard. EA's initial guidance for its current fiscal 85 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:28.279 year ending March thirty first anticipated mid single digit growth 86 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:31.959 from its live service games, including Football Club twenty five. However, 87 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.519 the company warned the market on Wednesday that it now 88 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.240 expects a mid single digit dcline with an FC twenty 89 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:40.959 five slow down during the Christmas period, accounting for the 90 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.639 majority of that change. Separately, EA said on Wednesday that 91 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.160 dragon Age of the Veilguard, released in October engage around 92 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:50.800 and engaged in quotes is how they put it, around 93 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.199 one point five million players during the three months into 94 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:56.160 December thirty first, twenty twenty four, which it said was 95 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:01.000 at nearly half of its expectations. EA now netbookings of 96 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.480 around two point twenty one billion for its third quarter 97 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.720 and an updated range of seven to seven point one 98 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:09.079 to five billion for the fiscal year. That is down 99 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.680 from seven point five to seven point eight billion that 100 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:16.920 they were expecting originally during Q three. We continue to 101 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:21.399 deliver high quality games and experiences across our proortfolio. However, 102 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.839 dragon Age and EA Sports FC twenty five underperformed our 103 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:30.120 netbookings expectations, said EA CEO Andrew Wilson. He does go 104 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:31.399 on here, I want to read this quote and then 105 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:34.000 we'll start discussing it. This month, our teams delivered a 106 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:37.560 comprehensive gameplay refresh in addition to our annual Team of 107 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:41.040 the Year update in FC twenty five. Positive player feedback 108 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:44.319 and early results are encouraging. We remain confident in our 109 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.839 long term strategy and expect a return to growth in 110 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:51.360 fiscal year twenty six as we execute against our pipeline. Matt, 111 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:52.879 I want to ask you what does it mean when 112 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:55.600 a CEO says they want to execute against their pipeline? 113 00:05:57.759 --> 00:05:59.920 And it means that they have a lot of play 114 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.600 in place that they expect to perform above where the 115 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:07.360 current situation is. So there's there's a lot in the hopper. 116 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.759 I might come down, but of course, you know, the 117 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.519 best laid plans always come out in the wash, and 118 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.319 consumers always have the ultimate final say. But yeah, that 119 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:21.480 just means that that they've got stuff in store, But 120 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:23.120 of course they're not going to tell you what that 121 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:24.199 stuff is quite yet. 122 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:29.439 Yeah, let's start with football club. You know that one 123 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:31.839 is just going to sort of wax and wane. As 124 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:35.279 interested in the game, It's probably hard to put the 125 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:37.000 finger on the pulse of something like that. There's so 126 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:40.319 many people playing it at any one time. They're always 127 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:42.720 making constant changes to the game, always trying to add 128 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:46.199 new stuff, like making a change, and then suddenly there's 129 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:50.480 a fewer people playing or spending money than expected. It's 130 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.600 hard to say if that's because they're less happy with 131 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.480 the game, or they're just spending time doing something else, right, 132 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.199 it's got to be difficult to sort of measure something like. 133 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:02.839 That, it is, and this is really where the crux 134 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:07.279 of the myss probably lies. Live services for EA is 135 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:11.800 the biggest deal, Yes, far bigger than any individual game 136 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:14.560 or full game that you would sell. So this is 137 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:16.879 probably where the bulk of this is coming from. It 138 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:20.560 And look, and we were talking about AFC. It's a 139 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:23.399 live service game. It's one of the live service games 140 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:26.120 competing with all of the other sports games and all 141 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:28.319 of the other live service games in the market, right, 142 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.480 so it's even up against like a Marvel Rivals or 143 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:35.240 a Fortnite or even a Rollblocks for that time and 144 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.600 time is really the most important bit. So you know, 145 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:42.680 that's what really matters, is how the players are engaging 146 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:46.519 with the title and monetizing, and that will be subject 147 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:48.720 to what else is going on in the market, both 148 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:50.920 within gaming and externally as well. 149 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.040 Yeah, and it's i mean not just the games, right, 150 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.279 It's always say people are spending more time on TikTok, 151 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:58.319 so that is also taken away from a live service game. 152 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.040 That's something that seems to be happy more frequently as 153 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:05.560 these companies recognizing that they're competing outside of games. But 154 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:08.959 you're right, FC twenty five very likely the bulk of 155 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:13.480 this that is their breadwinner for the most part, and 156 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.199 that doesn't mean they haven't looked for growth elsewhere. They 157 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:20.560 were like, okay, we will separate EA Sports from sort 158 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:23.240 of EA publishing. Let EA Sports do its thing, and 159 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:25.600 then E Publishing can focus on stuff like Dragon Age 160 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:29.439 the Veil Guard. I'm sure their expectations were higher for 161 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:31.560 that game than it actually performed. It seems like it's 162 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:34.799 another one of these big games that, while fine in 163 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:39.000 many regards, just slightly missed the mark and consumers. I 164 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:40.600 don't know. It seems like they punished it for it 165 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:42.279 for that, you know, punished as much as you know, 166 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:43.919 we're not going to spend our time on that is 167 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:44.559 a punishment. 168 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:49.559 Yeah, And it's been a challenge with most single player games, 169 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.960 even the hits this year. They come in for a 170 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.320 month or two and then they fade away as people 171 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:59.799 fall back into their live service or other comfort games. 172 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.679 It's kind of something we're seeing not just in gaming, 173 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:07.360 but across the board. This like turtling in towards comfort 174 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:09.840 like you know, when you turn on when you turn 175 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:12.320 on TV if you have TV, when you turn it 176 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:14.039 on or you turn on a streaming service, what does 177 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.039 it feed you? It feeds you friends or the office 178 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.120 right these comfort shows. It's similar to what we're seeing 179 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:21.840 at games right now, where people are continuing to fall back, 180 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:25.759 whether they're playing Madden or they're playing Fortnite, like they're 181 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:29.279 falling back into these comfort games rather than really taking 182 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:32.559 big risks or trying new things or or you know, 183 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.080 spending big dollars for a game that they may or 184 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.120 may not end up liking. And it's a real challenge. 185 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:42.240 And I mean you're seeing that every single month in 186 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:45.919 this market where these big new single player games, you know, 187 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:47.960 even the hits, they don't stick around too long. 188 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:52.240 Do you when you do talk to companies and when 189 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:54.720 you're looking at the data, do you get the sense 190 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.879 that this the state of things as it is now, 191 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.480 with the black Hole game taking up so much people's 192 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.360 time and energy and money, is just how it has 193 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.320 to be going forward forever? Or is it a trend 194 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:12.799 that will eventually break and create space for another new innovation, 195 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:17.080 whether that is a game design innovation or a game 196 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:18.159 business innovation. 197 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.000 Yeah, one of those two things has to happen. If 198 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.440 I knew which of those two things were going to work, 199 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:27.120 I'd be out doing that rather than of course looking 200 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:29.720 at sales numbers. Right, I'd be out making that game 201 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.559 or making that innovation. But it has to happen. But 202 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:34.320 when you look at this market, you know, if you 203 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:37.480 look at something like Call of Duty, Call of Duty 204 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:39.080 Black Op six, which is the best selling game of 205 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:42.519 the year in the US this year, the franchise itself 206 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:45.559 has been the number one selling franchise in the US 207 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.720 for sixteen straight years, and that you know, Call of 208 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.240 Duty really was one of those games that really started 209 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:56.120 this live service revolution. How do you get people I 210 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:58.720 would know, something like a Fortnite or a Rowblocks or 211 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.759 a Grand Theft Auto when they've spent so much time 212 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.559 and put so many dollars and have built not only 213 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.799 like a relationship with the game, but a relationship with 214 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:10.279 other people that play the game. Like these are people's 215 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:14.519 social hubs, especially in this world, right, people really fall 216 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:18.360 back into those comfort areas. How do you how do 217 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.879 you encourage people to leave that try new things? I mean, 218 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:25.159 that's that's just been one of the biggest challenges in 219 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:25.960 the market today. 220 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:29.799 Yeah, And I mean, as someone who has been playing 221 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:32.759 games a long time and and enjoys live service games, 222 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.399 definitely gets into them occasionally, not like I once did. 223 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.440 Like I was once very much into Call of Duty 224 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.360 and was playing one thousand hours per copy of those games, 225 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:41.919 like everything put out one a year, I'd play another 226 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.080 thousand hours. I'm not that way anymore. I definitely am 227 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:48.120 like kind of looking for the game I could spend 228 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:50.720 some time with, have an adventure with, and move on. 229 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.679 Part of me is accepting that I am that the 230 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.200 industry is. I feel like the industry is putting me 231 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:58.840 a little bit on an ice flow and sending me 232 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:00.879 out to sea and being like, we don't really need 233 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.799 you anymore. And then I'm like, Okay, well, there's plenty 234 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:05.480 of indie games for me to take up my time, 235 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.600 and I will focus on them. But I mean, is 236 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.480 that a feeling that is reasonable that the Triple A 237 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:13.440 publishers are not necessarily interested in the kinds of things 238 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:14.879 that I'm interested in anymore. 239 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:19.080 Well, there's really a fragmentation going on in the player base. 240 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:22.879 Like everyone watching this stream, every member of Giant Bomb, 241 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.399 you'd be very much into that core enthusiast community of 242 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.720 people that really want to know and love video games 243 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.559 as they've always been new adventures, new ways of playing, 244 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:37.919 new things to do. This is a small but very important, 245 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:41.919 incredibly important version of the market. But when you look 246 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:45.519 at the market as a whole, what we're seeing is 247 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.440 a big presence of people that will just play mobile. 248 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.879 A fifty percent of content spending on video game products 249 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.679 this year came from mobile. We also have a really 250 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.720 big portion of the market which we call easy accessors 251 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.559 and transitionals and what that means in terms of gamers 252 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:09.399 segmentation or basically looking at the psychographic profiles of who's 253 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:12.480 playing games. These are people that'll play things that are 254 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:16.879 easily accessible, like they have their Chromebook or some other 255 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:18.840 type of PC that they already have, What can I 256 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:20.440 play on it? What can I play on my mobile 257 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:23.279 device that I can jump into for free and just 258 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.840 kind of mess around? And transitionals people who used to 259 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:31.000 be more of the core audience that now because they 260 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:34.080 have jobs and kids and everything else, we're transitioning away. 261 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:39.039 So that traditional poor gaming audience that was basically the 262 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.120 gaming audience, say in the early two thousands, it's really changed. 263 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.639 Gaming is broadened in so many ways. But what that 264 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.960 means is that there are different needs for being met 265 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.559 for different groups of people, and those other groups of people, 266 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:56.600 while they're not spending as much time or money as say, 267 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:00.480 the core group, for so many of them that it 268 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.080 kind of makes up for it. So, you know, back 269 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.600 in the day, the only way to play a video 270 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.120 game was to buy a console, buy a disc game 271 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.120 and put it in the in the console and play it, 272 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.519 you know, or a PC. But now there are so 273 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.320 many ways to play, so many ways to engage with 274 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.919 content that publishers are really having to pick and choose 275 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:23.080 where they allocate their resources, and they're going to go 276 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:27.720 to where the biggest return is going to lie until 277 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:29.879 that changes. Like this is just kind of what we're 278 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.720 probably going to see for a while, which a very 279 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:41.679 long winded way of saying yeah. 280 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:42.159 No, perfect, yes, that it represents how I'm feeling about 281 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.360 all of it, And then I might just think about 282 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:51.200 the culture war stuff and entitled entitledness and the finickiness 283 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:55.639 of gamers. We're fickle. The core audience I'm specifically talking 284 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:58.039 about the broader audience does seem to be like, oh, 285 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.360 I'm Anopoly game. Okay, yeah, we'll play that. And I'm 286 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:04.679 sure there's plenty of drama within the Facebook page of 287 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.039 Monopoly Go. I'm sure that exists, absolutely, but it doesn't 288 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:10.879 seem to come from the same place of of like 289 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.639 of entitlement that we seem to be dealing with in game, 290 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:15.679 where it's like, these publishers, don't they know that we 291 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.080 pay their bills, so shouldn't they be listening to us? 292 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.639 And we're mad about this and it's got to get exhausting. 293 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:24.480 You said they will go where the biggest return is, 294 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:26.759 and it's well, we're not the biggest return, and we're 295 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:29.919 also kind of annoying to deal with. At a certain point, 296 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:32.279 it has to break them where it's like, why did 297 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.279 we spend all this time trying to get Dragon Age 298 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.639 the Vail Guard right? For these people? They were never 299 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:38.039 going to be happy with it in the first place. 300 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.039 Maybe we would have, but that's how it has to 301 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:40.840 feel at this moment. 302 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:45.399 Right, Well, it's it's high risk, right, Not only do 303 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.799 you have to deliver a great game, and however you 304 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.960 want to defind what makes a great game. You know, 305 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.799 it's up to whether it's a high metacritics score or 306 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.919 or whatever way you personally think that is. Yeah, have 307 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.120 to not only deliver a great game, but every single 308 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:02.759 point of your mess has to be perfect. And like, 309 00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:06.399 for example, you know, back in the day, Assassin's Creed 310 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:10.120 came out and and uh, that image, the screen shot 311 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:13.120 came out of the character whose face disappeared, and all 312 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:17.159 that were we're floating eyeballs, right, one screenshot like that 313 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:20.080 comes out and all of a sudden, you're you're really 314 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:24.759 fighting just to get the games message across, right, and 315 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:26.759 and you're you're mentioning a couple of those points we've 316 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.039 seen in recent in recent months where one small thing 317 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.200 can kind of blow up into a much bigger thing 318 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:36.639 and you know, really make your life difficult to try 319 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.200 to bring a game to market, even if it's a 320 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.600 great game. You're already up against the messaging, you're up 321 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.639 against the social media aspect of it. And yeah, it's 322 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:48.000 it's very, very tough. And and you know, there is 323 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:50.799 a lot of potential reward for making those kind of games, 324 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.120 but they come with a lot of risk as well, 325 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.279 and that's kind of the balance you're you're trying to 326 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:57.559 do right, all right. 327 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:00.799 Uh, Let's uh, let's move on from e a plenty 328 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.600 of other things to talk about. Let's get into Celestev's 329 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.039 cancel next game after falling out and difficult development. This 330 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:10.359 comes from Ethan Gotchak Kotaku. Earth Blade was going to 331 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.359 be the next game from the creators behind two D 332 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.160 pixel art action hits TowerFall and Celeste, but on Wednesday, 333 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.799 designer Mattie Thorson announced the project was quietly canceled last 334 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.119 month after a fallout between some of the team's members 335 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.319 and the realization that the game's protracted development had become 336 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:29.880 a real slog. The quote here from them is for 337 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.200 us on the inside. We've had some time to process, grieve, 338 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.240 and work toward accepting this. They made the decision in December, 339 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:39.559 I believe, although this process is nonlinear and still ongoing. 340 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.039 Thorson wrote, for those only reading this now who might 341 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:45.880 be emotionally invested in this project, we're sorry to disappoint you. 342 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.960 Earth Blade was announced by indie team Extremely Okay Games 343 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.240 back in twenty twenty one, and revealed its first gameplay 344 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.079 trailer at the Game Awards in twenty twenty two. Originally 345 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:56.960 set to come out as early as twenty twenty three 346 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.759 development didn't progress as quickly as the team had expected. 347 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.119 A planned twenty twenty four launch was eventually delayed as well. 348 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.519 In the cancelation announcement today, Thorson writes of a falling 349 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.839 out with pixel artist Pedro Madarios, whose visual art style 350 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.960 defined the aesthetic of the upcoming project, over a dispute 351 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.079 related to IP rights for Celeste, the beloved twenty eighteen 352 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:20.079 Game of the Year contender. We eventually reached a resolution, 353 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:22.400 but both parties also agreed in the end that we 354 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.839 should go our separate ways. Earth Blades director wrote, Pedro 355 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.039 is now working on his game Never Way, which you 356 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.519 should check out. We've played it and it's very promising. 357 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.160 You know, this is human Drama is in every sort 358 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:40.359 of you know, corporation and small team, big team, little team, 359 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.960 across any sort of creative endeavor. That doesn't mean it's 360 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:47.519 not a shame that this happened. I really really love Celeste, Matt. 361 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.640 Not surprising though, when you know, something like a legal 362 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.160 dispute breaks up a small team, Gonna be hard to 363 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:54.839 see through that next game, right. 364 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.440 Yeah, I mean, any video game getting made is a 365 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:02.039 bit of a miracle's and you know, these type of 366 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.359 things happen quite a bit, whether in small teams are 367 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.960 big teams. Usually they don't they don't come out to 368 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:10.799 the public quite like this, but these kind of conflicts 369 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.480 are happening all the time. And yeah, it's a real 370 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:16.759 shame and I feel bad for everyone involved, Like it's 371 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.799 not a good scene when you have that kind of conflict, 372 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:21.680 and it's a real shame that it's going to impact 373 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.480 this game as well as the people involved. 374 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:26.640 Yeah, I think Maddie, a lot of the people involved 375 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.559 have said they are reassessing and the plan now is 376 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.119 to kind of work on smaller games. And I to me, 377 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.160 I'm like, yeah, if you are an indie developer, I 378 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.240 think that is where your head should be at right now. 379 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.839 I read in this message from Maddie that they were 380 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:45.039 saying one of the problems with earth Blade is it 381 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.640 got so ambitious and after the success of Celeste, they 382 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.920 wanted to do something bigger and better. And my reaction 383 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.720 to that is is, please don't feel that way. That 384 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.440 is not actually what we want from you is to 385 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:01.119 feel like you have to one up yourself every time 386 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:03.799 as a small indie team. We kind of just are 387 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.720 happy that you made that game, and if you want 388 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.359 to make more of that game, go back and just 389 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:10.640 keep making Stardew value you want to put haunted chuckleate 390 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.279 here to the side over there over there at the 391 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.680 what the ape? I can't remember the name of the developer, 392 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.160 and it was like, yeah, okay, yeah, go back, keep 393 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.039 working on Star to Star. Do if you want to 394 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.000 spend ten years making a Stardew two that's a lot 395 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:25.960 like Star New one, we will also probably be pretty 396 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.160 happy with that. The idea that you have to like 397 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.720 kind of get into this ever ever increasing growth on 398 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.400 the indie side of things is probably causing a lot 399 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.559 of undue stress for a lot of these teams. So, 400 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:41.160 I mean, you know, I don't know. Again, maybe the 401 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.039