Speaker 1: Don't bit, it's the Internet. You're busy. Let's do this
Speaker 1: for January twenty three, twenty twenty five. For the next
Speaker 1: hour or so, let me help you sort through the
Speaker 1: world of gaming on Game Mess Mornings Live with me
Speaker 1: Jeff Grub. Today, EA underperformed and it's pinning the blame
Speaker 1: on Dragon age and soccer, and Insomniac has a new
Speaker 1: boss that also won't tell us anything about Wolverine. But first,
Speaker 1: please join me and welcome in today's co host to
Speaker 1: Game Mess Mornings. It's Matt Piscatella. Matt, how are you doing?
Speaker 2: What? Hello? Jeff Grub, Hello, chat. This is a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. I'm very excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, glad to have you here. Analysts from the from
Speaker 1: Sircana group. Right, I'm still not used to it. Have
Speaker 1: you gotten used to it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: And everyone still says the MPDE group, which you know,
Speaker 2: technically I'm supposed to get smacked if I say so,
Speaker 2: I won't. But yeah, we merged with IRA a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago and now we are Sirkana, the super
Speaker 2: research company.
Speaker 1: Yep, there it is all right. So yeah, whenever we
Speaker 1: do those reports about a an analyst to send this
Speaker 1: how many games sold the United States. Met does all
Speaker 1: that work, has all the spreadsheets, gives us all those
Speaker 1: little fun tadbits to talk about. Also, you know, occasual
Speaker 1: insights into other things happening in the market as well.
Speaker 1: Always appreciate it when we can talk about any of
Speaker 1: the stuff you offer us, Matt. But very excited to
Speaker 1: have you on the show. This is awesome. Anything you
Speaker 1: will think people should know about yourselves before about yourself
Speaker 1: before we get started.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very quick. Rundown been doing this about seven years.
Speaker 2: Prior to doing this, I spent about fifteen years in publishing.
Speaker 2: Started at Activision Publishing at the time away back in
Speaker 2: two thousand and five. Left publishing as the vice president
Speaker 2: sales Planning at Warner Brothers Games right around twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: So spent a long time and everything touching numbers, from
Speaker 2: trade marketing to demand planning, the business intelligence everything, green
Speaker 2: light forecast modeling. If you ever said, hey they dropped
Speaker 2: the price of a game by whatever, or hey they
Speaker 2: put that game on sale, I was they for a
Speaker 2: very long time.
Speaker 1: So when people would say don't they like money, were
Speaker 1: you the one that they were like probably talking about that,
Speaker 1: Like he was deciding whether or not they like that
Speaker 1: money or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, publishers turns out that they like
Speaker 2: money a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, excellent. Yeah, so Matt, I think, God,
Speaker 1: we've only met a couple times in person, but I
Speaker 1: did meet you with like the one time I remember
Speaker 1: for sure was at a PlayStation like Mixer, and that
Speaker 1: was a good time. They had some good food and
Speaker 1: drinks there. When you do get out to industry events,
Speaker 1: like what part of the industry are you normally mingling with?
Speaker 1: Are you going to meetings with executives or is it
Speaker 1: just like you know, you're free to go roam the
Speaker 1: show floor at a summer games fest.
Speaker 2: Usually it's at publishing events or retailer events. So I'm
Speaker 2: always talking with folks about where the business is going,
Speaker 2: what games are coming out, what's happening with consumer trends,
Speaker 2: everything from specific behavior to what might be happening in
Speaker 2: credit card debt or income levels or employment, like everything
Speaker 2: about what might impact this market. I get to chat
Speaker 2: about and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Excellent, All right, Well, we do have a lot to
Speaker 1: get into, so we should probably explain what we do
Speaker 1: here most weekdays. I Jeff Grub will help piece your
Speaker 1: gaming life back together. That includes breaking news and maybe
Speaker 1: even some of our own original reporting. For all these topics,
Speaker 1: I'll get the input of a bona fide expert who
Speaker 1: will make me look smart. If you're watching live on
Speaker 1: twitch welcome, You can always listen to the show later
Speaker 1: on podcast feeds by searching for Game Mess Mornings, or
Speaker 1: find the RSS on GiantBomb dot com. You can also
Speaker 1: catch the show later with chapters and timestamps on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Hello YouTube, All right, we have a lot to get
Speaker 1: so let's start the Morning Mess with EA does in
Speaker 1: fact blame underperformance of dragon Age and EA Football Club
Speaker 1: twenty five as it lowers forecast. This is from Andy
Speaker 1: Robinson at BGC. Electronic Guard says lowered its revenue forecast
Speaker 1: for its current business year partly due to what it
Speaker 1: called the underperformance of FC twenty five and dragon Age
Speaker 1: of the Veilguard. EA's initial guidance for its current fiscal
Speaker 1: year ending March thirty first anticipated mid single digit growth
Speaker 1: from its live service games, including Football Club twenty five. However,
Speaker 1: the company warned the market on Wednesday that it now
Speaker 1: expects a mid single digit dcline with an FC twenty
Speaker 1: five slow down during the Christmas period, accounting for the
Speaker 1: majority of that change. Separately, EA said on Wednesday that
Speaker 1: dragon Age of the Veilguard, released in October engage around
Speaker 1: and engaged in quotes is how they put it, around
Speaker 1: one point five million players during the three months into
Speaker 1: December thirty first, twenty twenty four, which it said was
Speaker 1: at nearly half of its expectations. EA now netbookings of
Speaker 1: around two point twenty one billion for its third quarter
Speaker 1: and an updated range of seven to seven point one
Speaker 1: to five billion for the fiscal year. That is down
Speaker 1: from seven point five to seven point eight billion that
Speaker 1: they were expecting originally during Q three. We continue to
Speaker 1: deliver high quality games and experiences across our proortfolio. However,
Speaker 1: dragon Age and EA Sports FC twenty five underperformed our
Speaker 1: netbookings expectations, said EA CEO Andrew Wilson. He does go
Speaker 1: on here, I want to read this quote and then
Speaker 1: we'll start discussing it. This month, our teams delivered a
Speaker 1: comprehensive gameplay refresh in addition to our annual Team of
Speaker 1: the Year update in FC twenty five. Positive player feedback
Speaker 1: and early results are encouraging. We remain confident in our
Speaker 1: long term strategy and expect a return to growth in
Speaker 1: fiscal year twenty six as we execute against our pipeline. Matt,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you what does it mean when
Speaker 1: a CEO says they want to execute against their pipeline?
Speaker 2: And it means that they have a lot of play
Speaker 2: in place that they expect to perform above where the
Speaker 2: current situation is. So there's there's a lot in the hopper.
Speaker 2: I might come down, but of course, you know, the
Speaker 2: best laid plans always come out in the wash, and
Speaker 2: consumers always have the ultimate final say. But yeah, that
Speaker 2: just means that that they've got stuff in store, But
Speaker 2: of course they're not going to tell you what that
Speaker 2: stuff is quite yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's start with football club. You know that one
Speaker 1: is just going to sort of wax and wane. As
Speaker 1: interested in the game, It's probably hard to put the
Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of something like that. There's so
Speaker 1: many people playing it at any one time. They're always
Speaker 1: making constant changes to the game, always trying to add
Speaker 1: new stuff, like making a change, and then suddenly there's
Speaker 1: a fewer people playing or spending money than expected. It's
Speaker 1: hard to say if that's because they're less happy with
Speaker 1: the game, or they're just spending time doing something else, right,
Speaker 1: it's got to be difficult to sort of measure something like.
Speaker 2: That, it is, and this is really where the crux
Speaker 2: of the myss probably lies. Live services for EA is
Speaker 2: the biggest deal, Yes, far bigger than any individual game
Speaker 2: or full game that you would sell. So this is
Speaker 2: probably where the bulk of this is coming from. It
Speaker 2: And look, and we were talking about AFC. It's a
Speaker 2: live service game. It's one of the live service games
Speaker 2: competing with all of the other sports games and all
Speaker 2: of the other live service games in the market, right,
Speaker 2: so it's even up against like a Marvel Rivals or
Speaker 2: a Fortnite or even a Rollblocks for that time and
Speaker 2: time is really the most important bit. So you know,
Speaker 2: that's what really matters, is how the players are engaging
Speaker 2: with the title and monetizing, and that will be subject
Speaker 2: to what else is going on in the market, both
Speaker 2: within gaming and externally as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's i mean not just the games, right,
Speaker 1: It's always say people are spending more time on TikTok,
Speaker 1: so that is also taken away from a live service game.
Speaker 1: That's something that seems to be happy more frequently as
Speaker 1: these companies recognizing that they're competing outside of games. But
Speaker 1: you're right, FC twenty five very likely the bulk of
Speaker 1: this that is their breadwinner for the most part, and
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they haven't looked for growth elsewhere. They
Speaker 1: were like, okay, we will separate EA Sports from sort
Speaker 1: of EA publishing. Let EA Sports do its thing, and
Speaker 1: then E Publishing can focus on stuff like Dragon Age
Speaker 1: the Veil Guard. I'm sure their expectations were higher for
Speaker 1: that game than it actually performed. It seems like it's
Speaker 1: another one of these big games that, while fine in
Speaker 1: many regards, just slightly missed the mark and consumers. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It seems like they punished it for it
Speaker 1: for that, you know, punished as much as you know,
Speaker 1: we're not going to spend our time on that is
Speaker 1: a punishment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's been a challenge with most single player games,
Speaker 2: even the hits this year. They come in for a
Speaker 2: month or two and then they fade away as people
Speaker 2: fall back into their live service or other comfort games.
Speaker 2: It's kind of something we're seeing not just in gaming,
Speaker 2: but across the board. This like turtling in towards comfort
Speaker 2: like you know, when you turn on when you turn
Speaker 2: on TV if you have TV, when you turn it
Speaker 2: on or you turn on a streaming service, what does
Speaker 2: it feed you? It feeds you friends or the office
Speaker 2: right these comfort shows. It's similar to what we're seeing
Speaker 2: at games right now, where people are continuing to fall back,
Speaker 2: whether they're playing Madden or they're playing Fortnite, like they're
Speaker 2: falling back into these comfort games rather than really taking
Speaker 2: big risks or trying new things or or you know,
Speaker 2: spending big dollars for a game that they may or
Speaker 2: may not end up liking. And it's a real challenge.
Speaker 2: And I mean you're seeing that every single month in
Speaker 2: this market where these big new single player games, you know,
Speaker 2: even the hits, they don't stick around too long.
Speaker 1: Do you when you do talk to companies and when
Speaker 1: you're looking at the data, do you get the sense
Speaker 1: that this the state of things as it is now,
Speaker 1: with the black Hole game taking up so much people's
Speaker 1: time and energy and money, is just how it has
Speaker 1: to be going forward forever? Or is it a trend
Speaker 1: that will eventually break and create space for another new innovation,
Speaker 1: whether that is a game design innovation or a game
Speaker 1: business innovation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of those two things has to happen. If
Speaker 2: I knew which of those two things were going to work,
Speaker 2: I'd be out doing that rather than of course looking
Speaker 2: at sales numbers. Right, I'd be out making that game
Speaker 2: or making that innovation. But it has to happen. But
Speaker 2: when you look at this market, you know, if you
Speaker 2: look at something like Call of Duty, Call of Duty
Speaker 2: Black Op six, which is the best selling game of
Speaker 2: the year in the US this year, the franchise itself
Speaker 2: has been the number one selling franchise in the US
Speaker 2: for sixteen straight years, and that you know, Call of
Speaker 2: Duty really was one of those games that really started
Speaker 2: this live service revolution. How do you get people I
Speaker 2: would know, something like a Fortnite or a Rowblocks or
Speaker 2: a Grand Theft Auto when they've spent so much time
Speaker 2: and put so many dollars and have built not only
Speaker 2: like a relationship with the game, but a relationship with
Speaker 2: other people that play the game. Like these are people's
Speaker 2: social hubs, especially in this world, right, people really fall
Speaker 2: back into those comfort areas. How do you how do
Speaker 2: you encourage people to leave that try new things? I mean,
Speaker 2: that's that's just been one of the biggest challenges in
Speaker 2: the market today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, as someone who has been playing
Speaker 1: games a long time and and enjoys live service games,
Speaker 1: definitely gets into them occasionally, not like I once did.
Speaker 1: Like I was once very much into Call of Duty
Speaker 1: and was playing one thousand hours per copy of those games,
Speaker 1: like everything put out one a year, I'd play another
Speaker 1: thousand hours. I'm not that way anymore. I definitely am
Speaker 1: like kind of looking for the game I could spend
Speaker 1: some time with, have an adventure with, and move on.
Speaker 1: Part of me is accepting that I am that the
Speaker 1: industry is. I feel like the industry is putting me
Speaker 1: a little bit on an ice flow and sending me
Speaker 1: out to sea and being like, we don't really need
Speaker 1: you anymore. And then I'm like, Okay, well, there's plenty
Speaker 1: of indie games for me to take up my time,
Speaker 1: and I will focus on them. But I mean, is
Speaker 1: that a feeling that is reasonable that the Triple A
Speaker 1: publishers are not necessarily interested in the kinds of things
Speaker 1: that I'm interested in anymore.
Speaker 2: Well, there's really a fragmentation going on in the player base.
Speaker 2: Like everyone watching this stream, every member of Giant Bomb,
Speaker 2: you'd be very much into that core enthusiast community of
Speaker 2: people that really want to know and love video games
Speaker 2: as they've always been new adventures, new ways of playing,
Speaker 2: new things to do. This is a small but very important,
Speaker 2: incredibly important version of the market. But when you look
Speaker 2: at the market as a whole, what we're seeing is
Speaker 2: a big presence of people that will just play mobile.
Speaker 2: A fifty percent of content spending on video game products
Speaker 2: this year came from mobile. We also have a really
Speaker 2: big portion of the market which we call easy accessors
Speaker 2: and transitionals and what that means in terms of gamers
Speaker 2: segmentation or basically looking at the psychographic profiles of who's
Speaker 2: playing games. These are people that'll play things that are
Speaker 2: easily accessible, like they have their Chromebook or some other
Speaker 2: type of PC that they already have, What can I
Speaker 2: play on it? What can I play on my mobile
Speaker 2: device that I can jump into for free and just
Speaker 2: kind of mess around? And transitionals people who used to
Speaker 2: be more of the core audience that now because they
Speaker 2: have jobs and kids and everything else, we're transitioning away.
Speaker 2: So that traditional poor gaming audience that was basically the
Speaker 2: gaming audience, say in the early two thousands, it's really changed.
Speaker 2: Gaming is broadened in so many ways. But what that
Speaker 2: means is that there are different needs for being met
Speaker 2: for different groups of people, and those other groups of people,
Speaker 2: while they're not spending as much time or money as say,
Speaker 2: the core group, for so many of them that it
Speaker 2: kind of makes up for it. So, you know, back
Speaker 2: in the day, the only way to play a video
Speaker 2: game was to buy a console, buy a disc game
Speaker 2: and put it in the in the console and play it,
Speaker 2: you know, or a PC. But now there are so
Speaker 2: many ways to play, so many ways to engage with
Speaker 2: content that publishers are really having to pick and choose
Speaker 2: where they allocate their resources, and they're going to go
Speaker 2: to where the biggest return is going to lie until
Speaker 2: that changes. Like this is just kind of what we're
Speaker 2: probably going to see for a while, which a very
Speaker 2: long winded way of saying yeah.
Speaker 1: No, perfect, yes, that it represents how I'm feeling about
Speaker 1: all of it, And then I might just think about
Speaker 1: the culture war stuff and entitled entitledness and the finickiness
Speaker 1: of gamers. We're fickle. The core audience I'm specifically talking
Speaker 1: about the broader audience does seem to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm Anopoly game. Okay, yeah, we'll play that. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's plenty of drama within the Facebook page of
Speaker 1: Monopoly Go. I'm sure that exists, absolutely, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to come from the same place of of like
Speaker 1: of entitlement that we seem to be dealing with in game,
Speaker 1: where it's like, these publishers, don't they know that we
Speaker 1: pay their bills, so shouldn't they be listening to us?
Speaker 1: And we're mad about this and it's got to get exhausting.
Speaker 1: You said they will go where the biggest return is,
Speaker 1: and it's well, we're not the biggest return, and we're
Speaker 1: also kind of annoying to deal with. At a certain point,
Speaker 1: it has to break them where it's like, why did
Speaker 1: we spend all this time trying to get Dragon Age
Speaker 1: the Vail Guard right? For these people? They were never
Speaker 1: going to be happy with it in the first place.
Speaker 1: Maybe we would have, but that's how it has to
Speaker 1: feel at this moment.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, it's it's high risk, right, Not only do
Speaker 2: you have to deliver a great game, and however you
Speaker 2: want to defind what makes a great game. You know,
Speaker 2: it's up to whether it's a high metacritics score or
Speaker 2: or whatever way you personally think that is. Yeah, have
Speaker 2: to not only deliver a great game, but every single
Speaker 2: point of your mess has to be perfect. And like,
Speaker 2: for example, you know, back in the day, Assassin's Creed
Speaker 2: came out and and uh, that image, the screen shot
Speaker 2: came out of the character whose face disappeared, and all
Speaker 2: that were we're floating eyeballs, right, one screenshot like that
Speaker 2: comes out and all of a sudden, you're you're really
Speaker 2: fighting just to get the games message across, right, and
Speaker 2: and you're you're mentioning a couple of those points we've
Speaker 2: seen in recent in recent months where one small thing
Speaker 2: can kind of blow up into a much bigger thing
Speaker 2: and you know, really make your life difficult to try
Speaker 2: to bring a game to market, even if it's a
Speaker 2: great game. You're already up against the messaging, you're up
Speaker 2: against the social media aspect of it. And yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's very, very tough. And and you know, there is
Speaker 2: a lot of potential reward for making those kind of games,
Speaker 2: but they come with a lot of risk as well,
Speaker 2: and that's kind of the balance you're you're trying to
Speaker 2: do right, all right.
Speaker 1: Uh, Let's uh, let's move on from e a plenty
Speaker 1: of other things to talk about. Let's get into Celestev's
Speaker 1: cancel next game after falling out and difficult development. This
Speaker 1: comes from Ethan Gotchak Kotaku. Earth Blade was going to
Speaker 1: be the next game from the creators behind two D
Speaker 1: pixel art action hits TowerFall and Celeste, but on Wednesday,
Speaker 1: designer Mattie Thorson announced the project was quietly canceled last
Speaker 1: month after a fallout between some of the team's members
Speaker 1: and the realization that the game's protracted development had become
Speaker 1: a real slog. The quote here from them is for
Speaker 1: us on the inside. We've had some time to process, grieve,
Speaker 1: and work toward accepting this. They made the decision in December,
Speaker 1: I believe, although this process is nonlinear and still ongoing.
Speaker 1: Thorson wrote, for those only reading this now who might
Speaker 1: be emotionally invested in this project, we're sorry to disappoint you.
Speaker 1: Earth Blade was announced by indie team Extremely Okay Games
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty one, and revealed its first gameplay
Speaker 1: trailer at the Game Awards in twenty twenty two. Originally
Speaker 1: set to come out as early as twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: development didn't progress as quickly as the team had expected.
Speaker 1: A planned twenty twenty four launch was eventually delayed as well.
Speaker 1: In the cancelation announcement today, Thorson writes of a falling
Speaker 1: out with pixel artist Pedro Madarios, whose visual art style
Speaker 1: defined the aesthetic of the upcoming project, over a dispute
Speaker 1: related to IP rights for Celeste, the beloved twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: Game of the Year contender. We eventually reached a resolution,
Speaker 1: but both parties also agreed in the end that we
Speaker 1: should go our separate ways. Earth Blades director wrote, Pedro
Speaker 1: is now working on his game Never Way, which you
Speaker 1: should check out. We've played it and it's very promising.
Speaker 1: You know, this is human Drama is in every sort
Speaker 1: of you know, corporation and small team, big team, little team,
Speaker 1: across any sort of creative endeavor. That doesn't mean it's
Speaker 1: not a shame that this happened. I really really love Celeste, Matt.
Speaker 1: Not surprising though, when you know, something like a legal
Speaker 1: dispute breaks up a small team, Gonna be hard to
Speaker 1: see through that next game, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, any video game getting made is a
Speaker 2: bit of a miracle's and you know, these type of
Speaker 2: things happen quite a bit, whether in small teams are
Speaker 2: big teams. Usually they don't they don't come out to
Speaker 2: the public quite like this, but these kind of conflicts
Speaker 2: are happening all the time. And yeah, it's a real
Speaker 2: shame and I feel bad for everyone involved, Like it's
Speaker 2: not a good scene when you have that kind of conflict,
Speaker 2: and it's a real shame that it's going to impact
Speaker 2: this game as well as the people involved.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Maddie, a lot of the people involved
Speaker 1: have said they are reassessing and the plan now is
Speaker 1: to kind of work on smaller games. And I to me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, if you are an indie developer, I
Speaker 1: think that is where your head should be at right now.
Speaker 1: I read in this message from Maddie that they were
Speaker 1: saying one of the problems with earth Blade is it
Speaker 1: got so ambitious and after the success of Celeste, they
Speaker 1: wanted to do something bigger and better. And my reaction
Speaker 1: to that is is, please don't feel that way. That
Speaker 1: is not actually what we want from you is to
Speaker 1: feel like you have to one up yourself every time
Speaker 1: as a small indie team. We kind of just are
Speaker 1: happy that you made that game, and if you want
Speaker 1: to make more of that game, go back and just
Speaker 1: keep making Stardew value you want to put haunted chuckleate
Speaker 1: here to the side over there over there at the
Speaker 1: what the ape? I can't remember the name of the developer,
Speaker 1: and it was like, yeah, okay, yeah, go back, keep
Speaker 1: working on Star to Star. Do if you want to
Speaker 1: spend ten years making a Stardew two that's a lot
Speaker 1: like Star New one, we will also probably be pretty
Speaker 1: happy with that. The idea that you have to like
Speaker 1: kind of get into this ever ever increasing growth on
Speaker 1: the indie side of things is probably causing a lot
Speaker 1: of undue stress for a lot of these teams. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I don't know. Again, maybe the
Speaker 1: economics does make it so they do have to grow
Speaker 1: each time, but I don't know is that the case, mat.
Speaker 2: I mean, it really depends on the state of their
Speaker 2: their financial backing, what the expectations are of any investors
Speaker 2: they might have. But this is a I mean, this
Speaker 2: is a problem. That's that it has impacted so many teams.
Speaker 2: You look at any franchise, you know, take a look
Speaker 2: at something like Arkham, right, Arkham Asylum comes out, it's
Speaker 2: a it's a kind of a metro Vania. It's a
Speaker 2: ten hour experience. City gets bigger, it's open world night,
Speaker 2: it's even bigger, and then all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 2: the sales can't sustain the traditional cost the additional time.
Speaker 2: You know, looking at an indie studio like this, it's
Speaker 2: the same, but just in a in a smaller scale
Speaker 2: where you know the feeling that you kind of always
Speaker 2: have to be getting bigger, doing more. We made X
Speaker 2: on this small game. If we made a big game,
Speaker 2: we can make why how do we do that? And like,
Speaker 2: that's the trap, right, If you're really good at what
Speaker 2: you do, keep doing it until it doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 2: It's lower risk. Sure the potential upside might not be
Speaker 2: as high, but you're more likely to reach it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a it's different in every case, but it's a
Speaker 2: trap that we see so many developers and publishers fall into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I remember there was a period there
Speaker 1: are on the Sci Fi Channel in the early two thousands,
Speaker 1: they were just doing a Planet of the Apes marathons
Speaker 1: all the time, and they started having like little documentaries
Speaker 1: on there and that there was talk about how the
Speaker 1: producers were just like looking at the line or like
Speaker 1: this move this. The last one made this much and
Speaker 1: it costs this much, and the second one made less,
Speaker 1: but it costs less, and we're just gonna keep doing that.
Speaker 1: And they ended up making five of those things over
Speaker 1: the course of a decade or so. And that's a
Speaker 1: decade where a lot of people were employed to make
Speaker 1: some pretty fun movies for a very like just a
Speaker 1: very long time and it's like, yeah, more of that,
Speaker 1: Let's do more of that. And again I get that
Speaker 1: public traded companies and they feel like they just do
Speaker 1: not have that as an option. But you're an indie studio,
Speaker 1: you should hear us when we say we want you
Speaker 1: to keep doing the thing you're very good at and
Speaker 1: don't feel like you got to come back with I mean,
Speaker 1: the earth Blake looked fantastic, Matt, It really did. You know.
Speaker 1: The promises there were were enticing, but they were promises
Speaker 1: that were causing problems at the studio because they felt
Speaker 1: like we weren't. This was a slog to work on
Speaker 1: in their words, So yeah, I feel like, try to
Speaker 1: avoid this trap where possible.
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, yeah, it's important. I think the one
Speaker 2: other piece on that is that you know, when you
Speaker 2: make a great game as a developer, or you publish
Speaker 2: a great game as a publisher, you always think like, well,
Speaker 2: if we had more time or more dollars, we could
Speaker 2: have made it even better, right, And so you're always
Speaker 2: having this thought about how can we do bigger and better?
Speaker 2: And oh, I wanted this is the game I always
Speaker 2: wanted to make, And it turns out that it didn't
Speaker 2: doesn't really resonate with an audience as much as the
Speaker 2: first game did. Yeah, it's, of course, it's like any
Speaker 2: video game getting made as a miracle.
Speaker 1: Yep. Absolutely every time. Yep. Yeah, And there's it's kind
Speaker 1: of no avoiding some of these traps no matter which
Speaker 1: direction you go. All right, let's see here. Wolverine Dev
Speaker 1: refuses to comment on twenty twenty five release date, acknowledges
Speaker 1: pent up demand. This comes to any MCOO at game Spot.
Speaker 1: This is of course a follow up we talked yesterday.
Speaker 1: It happened live during the show that that Ted Price,
Speaker 1: longtime CEO head of Insomniac Games, is retiring too handsome
Speaker 1: to working games anymore. Always felt that way for him.
Speaker 1: He is going to be stepping down fully in March,
Speaker 1: they have some other people stepping into his position, and
Speaker 1: some of them have begun talking. One of the new
Speaker 1: Insomniac bosses, Chad Desern, told Variety that the studio would
Speaker 1: love to talk more about Wolverine, but it can't yet.
Speaker 1: We have to be like a logan today and remain
Speaker 1: very stoic until it's time to pop the claws down
Speaker 1: the road. He said. As much as we have pent
Speaker 1: up excitement, we got to hold we have to hold
Speaker 1: on to that. So that's about as much as we
Speaker 1: could say about our upcoming projects today. Zeren also refused
Speaker 1: to confirm or deny if the new Wolverine game will
Speaker 1: release in twenty twenty five. You know, this seems to
Speaker 1: go back a little bit to the message of like
Speaker 1: they have to be so careful with everything they say
Speaker 1: right the video game to moment's not linear, and then
Speaker 1: any one wrong thing can cause major problems for everybody involved,
Speaker 1: or major headaches that they feel that they are in
Speaker 1: fire so that they feel that they have to put out.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, Insomniac has been on a breakneck
Speaker 1: pace with delivering these games, uh, and it feels like
Speaker 1: Wolverine could be something that does pop up this year. Uh,
Speaker 1: you feel like that's possible.
Speaker 2: I mean, it could, it's it's if it didn't, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised. I have no idea either way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, what a hell of a run for him
Speaker 2: and that team. Yeah, but they've been able to accomplish
Speaker 2: the consistency of the studio with him there has been
Speaker 2: remarkable what they've been able to accomplish. So, I mean,
Speaker 2: if if you have faith in any studio, that's a
Speaker 2: studio to have faith in, even with a leadership transition.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's you know, in this market at this time,
Speaker 2: with the scale of development we're talking about, like you know,
Speaker 2: when a game comes out, it's when it comes with
Speaker 2: when it's able to come out, or you know, it
Speaker 2: comes out when the budget runs out, either way. But
Speaker 2: fortunately they seemed to have no problem making sure that
Speaker 2: they have the budget they need, so hopefully it all
Speaker 2: comes out great.
Speaker 1: One thing I have noticed over the last several years,
Speaker 1: A lot of people in chat and the audience have
Speaker 1: noticed this as well, is the shrinking time that marketing
Speaker 1: gets takes from like okay, well the game gets announced
Speaker 1: maybe a long time ago, but when we're really going
Speaker 1: to start pushing this game in a marketing way against two, three,
Speaker 1: four months maybe before a game is actually coming out.
Speaker 1: What led to that?
Speaker 2: So you have a number of factors. Now you're talking
Speaker 2: about an attention span that's gotten a little bit narrower.
Speaker 2: With the shift towards more of a digital first strategy.
Speaker 2: You don't need the long lead ups that you used
Speaker 2: to need to have with physical retail doing physical pre orders.
Speaker 2: Of course, we don't have E three anymore where that
Speaker 2: used to be a big touch point for these kind
Speaker 2: of marketing events. We do have Summer Games Fest, but
Speaker 2: it's it's not the same when it comes to this
Speaker 2: kind of thing, and we have the you know, the
Speaker 2: the development budgets that have gotten so big continue to grow.
Speaker 2: I guess the console market that has not grown at
Speaker 2: the same rate. Right, So you're looking for areas to
Speaker 2: have some savings and you're trying to thread the needle
Speaker 2: make sure that your marketing is done at the right
Speaker 2: spend and the right places at the right time to
Speaker 2: generate the best impact. Now, no one has the formula
Speaker 2: to perfect a marketing plan, and what marketing plan might
Speaker 2: work for one game won't work for another, and Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: marketing is one of those areas that is first looked to.
Speaker 3: If some additional funds.
Speaker 2: Need to be recovered for something like additional production time
Speaker 2: or other factors. I don't know what the case is
Speaker 2: in this particular case or what might be happening with
Speaker 2: this game, but generally what you're finding is leaner, meaner,
Speaker 2: and trying to hit harder where the folks that might
Speaker 2: play your game are in a shorter timeframe. Is it
Speaker 2: working as well as it used to? I don't know.
Speaker 2: Some cases it will, some cases it won't. But if
Speaker 2: you look at some of the biggest hits this year, right,
Speaker 2: Hell Divers two, Power World, no one knew they were
Speaker 2: coming out, and then they come out in the biggest
Speaker 2: games of the world for.
Speaker 3: A while, So who the hell knows?
Speaker 1: Right, That's probably a big part of it is like
Speaker 1: who the hell knows? And when we look at it,
Speaker 1: when we do try to have a shorter time frame
Speaker 1: that we spend on marketing, we kind of can't tell
Speaker 1: the difference. It seems like the game did justice fine,
Speaker 1: or maybe even better than it would have done. It's
Speaker 1: again hard to measure, so they are probably just like
Speaker 1: if we could save the money. Why not? Right?
Speaker 2: In some cases? Yeah, every game that comes out has
Speaker 2: different things hitting it, impacting it, of course before launch,
Speaker 2: and all kinds of decisions are made for all kinds
Speaker 2: of reasons.
Speaker 1: Fair enough. Oh right, let's see. Actually, you know what,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. We'll get right back into it.
Speaker 1: We have news about the Power World of developers becoming publishers,
Speaker 1: and maybe Nintendo share prices at an all time high. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about that right after this. All right, we are
Speaker 1: right back into it. As promised. Power World's developer is
Speaker 1: entering publishing and its first game is from Tales of
Speaker 1: a cancerra team Surgeon. This from Jordan Miller at VGC.
Speaker 1: Tales of Canzero developer Surgeon Studios is announced they will
Speaker 1: partner with Power World publisher Pocket Pair for its next project,
Speaker 1: which will be a short horror game. The project won't
Speaker 1: be set in the Tales of Canzera universe and won't
Speaker 1: be related to Project USO, the in development title that
Speaker 1: studio bus Abu Bakar Salim showed off to VGC last year.
Speaker 1: The new horror game is set to be released later
Speaker 1: this year. The game will be the first title published
Speaker 1: by Pocket Pair publishing a new label from the power World. Developers,
Speaker 1: both Surgeon and Pocket Pear are well versed in taking
Speaker 1: risks set out. Excuse me, I said Abu Bakar Salem,
Speaker 1: CEO of Search and Studios. We noticed a pattern in
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry, and Pocket Pair has given us the
Speaker 1: opportunity to make a horror game about it. It will
Speaker 1: be short and weird, and we think players will be
Speaker 1: interested in what we have to say. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: this first from Salem's point of view and the folks
Speaker 1: over there at Surgeon Studios. I played through Tales of
Speaker 1: Canzera Zal really liked it. I really thought it was
Speaker 1: a very solid Metroidvania game that actually gave me a
Speaker 1: little bit of a gut punch with its its storytelling
Speaker 1: and it's it's themes of loss and dealing with loss.
Speaker 1: Very well done. Uh. And then I, you know, I
Speaker 1: look up from enjoying a game and seeing a bunch
Speaker 1: of people again culture war stuff taking it because it
Speaker 1: was a game about black people, made by black people,
Speaker 1: and it was attacked by racists. I was worried this
Speaker 1: would scare off Abubakart Salim and he'd be like, why
Speaker 1: am I again, Why am I dealing with these people?
Speaker 1: Why am I trying to make things for them? But
Speaker 1: he's he's still here, and he's he's he's popping up
Speaker 1: having a conversations we had him on our countdown to
Speaker 1: the Game Awards and things like that. He's ready to
Speaker 1: continue making games and now he's got a partner in
Speaker 1: Pocket Pair to keep doing exactly that. I find that
Speaker 1: pretty inspiring. I'm happy to see that, how about you?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and seeing people continue their creative vision in this
Speaker 2: with this kind of challenge is super inspiring, and I
Speaker 2: hope all the best for them in the team. You
Speaker 2: hate seeing what I hate seeing what we're seeing through
Speaker 2: some parts of gaming community in recent months and in
Speaker 2: the country at large for that matter, And I sure
Speaker 2: hope this is a huge success for them.
Speaker 1: Yep, exactly same as far as Pocket Pair goes. This
Speaker 1: move has happened frequently we see a developer get into publishing.
Speaker 1: What's usually the thinking there is it just we have
Speaker 1: We've built up these tools and these resources and these
Speaker 1: teams inside of our company to help us publish our game,
Speaker 1: and it kind of makes it make We can kind
Speaker 1: only make that make sense if we start publishing other
Speaker 1: people's games, or is it like we can make a
Speaker 1: lot more money if we start publishing other people's games.
Speaker 2: I mean, when it comes to smaller teams like this,
Speaker 2: I don't know particularly about the motivations of the power
Speaker 2: world of folks here, but you know, when these kind
Speaker 2: of things happens, usually it's say, hey, we want to
Speaker 2: help We want to help fellow developers out and really
Speaker 2: help get game out and use the knowledge that we've
Speaker 2: acquired to not only help them but also you know,
Speaker 2: find some return on that. Generally, these come from a
Speaker 2: very good place. When smaller groups start publishing, it doesn't
Speaker 2: always work out, And I hope that's the case here
Speaker 2: at sure it seems like I could be which would
Speaker 2: be great, but I don't know for sure. But yeah,
Speaker 2: take the expertise you achieved and putting out a hit
Speaker 2: game and you know, build on that and that's great.
Speaker 1: Yep. Absolutely, And it's like it seems like it makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Seems like it. It has worked
Speaker 1: pretty frequently. I mean, going back to Team seventeen, who
Speaker 1: we're not gonna that story is not one of the
Speaker 1: headlines Team seventeen. The group changed their name to like
Speaker 1: ever play group or something like that. But Team seventeen
Speaker 1: Publishing is staying Team seventeen Publishing. They made Worms forever
Speaker 1: go and then they're like, let's get into publishing, and
Speaker 1: they've been doing that ever since, while still making like
Speaker 1: worms games here or there and make a few games
Speaker 1: themselves here there, And yeah, it really I mean even
Speaker 1: like like to a certain extent, valve being like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're a developer, and then we built these tools to
Speaker 1: help other developers, and that kind of just takes over
Speaker 1: becomes Steam takes over the world. Is a certain point,
Speaker 1: it feels kind of like a natural evolution of someone
Speaker 1: learning this business and being like, we have to share
Speaker 1: what we've learned and make it easier for other people
Speaker 1: to do the same thing. That does kind of feel
Speaker 1: like what this always is. People will point out Pocket
Speaker 1: Pair that there's some concerns there. The CEO or one
Speaker 1: of the heads there very into AI and generative AI. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's the case, and I'm sure that's something
Speaker 1: that probably is coming up in conversations, or at least
Speaker 1: I would imagine it is, But that they're not alone
Speaker 1: in that right, That's got to be across the industry.
Speaker 1: Right now, a bunch of publishers are having those same conversations, right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, everyone's gonna try to look for an edge,
Speaker 2: try to look for a way to cut costs. Whether
Speaker 2: it works or not, it's very much open to debate.
Speaker 2: What we've seen so far is certainly not super convincing
Speaker 2: audience will react positively to that kind of content. We'll
Speaker 2: have to see how things develop. But of course people
Speaker 2: are going to look into every possible way of gaining
Speaker 2: an edge when you're putting games out, so it's not
Speaker 2: a surprise and we'll have to see how it goes.
Speaker 1: Excellent's all right, let's talk about Nintendo. Nintendo's share prices
Speaker 1: have reached an all time high one week after Switch
Speaker 1: to reveal. This is from Jim Norman at Nintendo Life.
Speaker 1: It was all doom and gloom last week, as Nintendo'
Speaker 1: share price took a slight tumble immediately after the long
Speaker 1: awaited switch to reveal. But ever one's everyone's to every
Speaker 1: once in a while, these things all hit a rebound.
Speaker 1: Big In has bounced back in style, temporarily hitting the
Speaker 1: company's highest recorded share price since listings began. And then
Speaker 1: Jim writes here, Mama Mia as flagged by Automaton. Nintendo
Speaker 1: stock temporarily rose to a tasty and seventy five Japanese
Speaker 1: yen on January twenty third, setting a new all time
Speaker 1: high for the company and reportedly beating the previous record
Speaker 1: word by three hundred and seventy one yen. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: these things that they happen because at the whims of
Speaker 1: investors they see something new and shiny. They're like, all right,
Speaker 1: this is the We'll build in the expectations now. And
Speaker 1: then I think in my head it's like, well, this means,
Speaker 1: you know, as they build in the expectations, any sort
Speaker 1: of stumble here from here on out, it's really going
Speaker 1: to ding this this share price. What does Nintendo need
Speaker 1: to do or what can they do to sort of
Speaker 1: ensure that they can maintain this and keep investors happy
Speaker 1: and then still see some growth going forward.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things I'm very glad to do
Speaker 2: is not look at stock stuff too much, because what
Speaker 2: you're seeing in those markets and what's actually happening in
Speaker 2: the real world in terms of consumer don't always align.
Speaker 1: Yes, the stock market is the imagination of investors a
Speaker 1: lot of times, right, and that's a weird, dirty place
Speaker 1: you don't want to be.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be there particularly. But what Nintendo
Speaker 2: has to do is what they've always done, which is
Speaker 2: focus on Nintendo. They kind of operate in their own
Speaker 2: vert Sure, there is some competition between what they're doing
Speaker 2: and something like a PlayStation or a PC, like you're
Speaker 2: always competing for time, but in terms of what they do,
Speaker 2: they kind of do what they do and no one
Speaker 2: else does quite what they do, and they move with
Speaker 2: their own pace, and they come with their own decisions,
Speaker 2: and they come with their own innovations. So they just
Speaker 2: have to keep doing what they've been doing. They've been
Speaker 2: very successful for a very long time. Anticipate them to
Speaker 2: continue to be that way, even if I can't always
Speaker 2: predict what the hell they're going to do, because no
Speaker 2: analysts ever got rich correctly predicting what Nintendo will do,
Speaker 2: and I ain't going to be the first. But yeah,
Speaker 2: as long as they keep focusing on what they do,
Speaker 2: they'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. You know. I've gotten the sense that
Speaker 1: Nintendo is one of the few companies that can sort
Speaker 1: of dictate to its investors what they should be expecting
Speaker 1: from Nintendo, where a lot of other companies in at
Speaker 1: least in the gaming space, the places I pay attention
Speaker 1: to seem a little bit like they they are afraid
Speaker 1: of their investors and and and shy or like shy
Speaker 1: away from their building their own identity because they have
Speaker 1: to have these meet these expectations with people that control
Speaker 1: the stocks. Is that one of the strengths of Nintendo
Speaker 1: is that they kind of can ignore the concerns and
Speaker 1: anxieties of the people invested in them.
Speaker 2: Well, they certainly don't ignore them, but they they react
Speaker 2: to them in in a in their own type of way, right, okay,
Speaker 2: And they've built that credibility over decades.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: Even when they stumble, they come out of it the
Speaker 2: other side with with something amazing, right, or something that
Speaker 2: that performs exceptionally well. Until they stop doing that, they'll
Speaker 2: they'll have the rain and the license to continue to
Speaker 2: being what they what they are, and what they do,
Speaker 2: and hopefully that stays the case for a.
Speaker 3: Very long time.
Speaker 1: Uh. When we were dealing with seeing like the the
Speaker 1: sort of dip in video game sales and a lot
Speaker 1: of layoffs through twenty twenty four, one of the things
Speaker 1: that people are saying is like let's wait for switch To,
Speaker 1: Let's wait for GTA six. See what happens then coming
Speaker 1: out of the switch To revealed. Do you feel like
Speaker 1: that is going to be a fertile ground for enabling
Speaker 1: a lot of developers and publishers to find some newfound success.
Speaker 2: Sure, hope. So, I mean, Nintendo hardware is made primarily
Speaker 2: to play Nintendo content, but you know, there could be
Speaker 2: a significant opportunity for third parties on a Nintendo platform.
Speaker 2: We'll have to see exactly who's there on day one,
Speaker 2: But yeah, twenty five is all about switch To, It's
Speaker 2: all about Grand Theft, Auto six. If both of them
Speaker 2: show up next year, if both of them are what
Speaker 2: people expect them to be, we're looking at, you know,
Speaker 2: low to mid single digit growth for an industry that's
Speaker 2: really been struggling to get past those twenty twenty one
Speaker 2: highs that were, of course fueled by all those stay
Speaker 2: at home activities associated with a pandemic. So, you know,
Speaker 2: we had a market that's been that had been growing
Speaker 2: for decades all of a sudden reach a peak in
Speaker 2: twenty one, and while you know, the market's basically been
Speaker 2: stable since then. A stable video game market isn't what
Speaker 2: investors expect are accustomed to. So if we can start
Speaker 2: getting back to some growth, it would be a very
Speaker 2: good thing. And you know, for better or worse, all
Speaker 2: of the eggs are in those two baskets when it
Speaker 2: comes to switch to and grand theft Auto six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did twenty twenty four end up? Like, I
Speaker 1: think you were expecting a little bit of a decline
Speaker 1: Instead it was stable, But that is still not good enough,
Speaker 1: Like the industry is not built to not grow.
Speaker 2: Right, So what we saw we just published results this morning.
Speaker 2: Total spending for the US for the year was down
Speaker 2: about one point one percent, which, on its face, you're like,
Speaker 2: that's not that bad. Why the heck is so much
Speaker 2: chaos happening with the decline of only one point one percent.
Speaker 3: Well, you know.
Speaker 2: That that drop was really helped by the mobile side
Speaker 2: of things, which you know, mobile from our friends over
Speaker 2: at Censor Tower, who we partner with to track the
Speaker 2: mobile space really outperformed expectations, really helped by Monopoly Go.
Speaker 2: On the console side, it was a really tough year.
Speaker 2: Console hardware sales in terms of spending was down twenty
Speaker 2: five percent. Of course, that was a little bit expected
Speaker 2: swhich is you know, getting up their age. Yeah, PlayStation
Speaker 2: five and Xbox series are both over their cyclical sales peaks.
Speaker 2: You know, we're on the downside of their curves. So
Speaker 2: hardware was expected. Console content was also down double digits
Speaker 2: in terms of percentage, and you know, we had a
Speaker 2: lighter slate. We have the you know, the aging devices,
Speaker 2: and you know, so when you look at the total market,
Speaker 2: you're like down one. That's fine. Well, it's because we
Speaker 2: saw some shifting or round of dollars towards the mobile side,
Speaker 2: more towards PC. We had a little growth and non
Speaker 2: mobile subscription spending, helped by a call of duty on
Speaker 2: game Pass, but in general, console content had a really
Speaker 2: tough year. So if we get grant that f Auto
Speaker 2: six and we get it switched to you know, all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, that starts turning around next year. This year,
Speaker 2: hopefully that becomes more appealing to investment, we start getting
Speaker 2: more studios funded, and we start kind of reversing these
Speaker 2: really negative trends we've seen over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: And that'll be a really big deal if it can
Speaker 2: happen this year.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the console sales peak. Is this normally when
Speaker 1: the console's peak in terms of the trend, or did
Speaker 1: it happen maybe a little bit sooner because so many
Speaker 1: people rush to get consoles during the pandemic. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I was trying to like map that out in my head,
Speaker 1: like it was it sooner than normal? Or is it like,
Speaker 1: you know, about four fourish years in we get on
Speaker 1: the other side of that bell curve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty normal in terms of now. What's not
Speaker 2: normal is the size of the decline this year compared
Speaker 2: to last year for PlayStation five n Xbox series, where
Speaker 2: we're a little bit heavier and I thought we should be.
Speaker 2: But you have to take into account the chaos of
Speaker 2: the first couple of years of this generation not having
Speaker 2: any units for a couple of years, then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden we had all the units. You know, big increases,
Speaker 2: big drops based on supply because of how crazy that was.
Speaker 2: But generally now we're kind of selling it into where
Speaker 2: we should be, and the question is how do these
Speaker 2: two boxes kind of ride out the rest of this
Speaker 2: gen u into PS six And if there's another Xbox,
Speaker 2: who the hell knows or what they decide to do
Speaker 2: with that product.
Speaker 3: You know, it's.
Speaker 2: It's what happens with the next couple years now, Grand
Speaker 2: Theft Auto six could significantly impact that right in a
Speaker 2: number of ways, right, And that's what everyone's kind of
Speaker 2: sitting on. And you know, you never want to put
Speaker 2: all the eggs in one basket, but we are.
Speaker 1: We have. Yeah, that's like, well we just really beat
Speaker 1: that one basket super bad right now. Okay, so everyone
Speaker 1: who's waiting for that, you know, a couple more stories,
Speaker 1: we'll get to them here in a second. But just
Speaker 1: the last question on this, uh GTA six does come out,
Speaker 1: and it's everything everyone hopes it will be. It does
Speaker 1: bump up the console sales. Is is there really an
Speaker 1: expected sort of reverberation for everyone else to get a
Speaker 1: sales bump or is this another one of those games
Speaker 1: that takes all the oxygen out of the room.
Speaker 2: I mean, sure, not going to help the live service
Speaker 2: issue or the challenge that the games are facing, But
Speaker 2: what it could do is bring investors back in to
Speaker 2: start funding other games. If we have more interest on
Speaker 2: the console side, we have more people playing for a
Speaker 2: lot more hours, and all of a sudden there's you know,
Speaker 2: a reversal of some of the declines we've seen in
Speaker 2: the console side for the last year or two. You know,
Speaker 2: switch to would help that as well. Then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, you know, investors are looking to fun studios
Speaker 2: fund development, and that would be a positive snowball effect
Speaker 2: that could help things. And you know, the more games,
Speaker 2: the kind of games that will you know, appeal to
Speaker 2: a mass audience, could significantly help. And that's kind of
Speaker 2: what the hope is.
Speaker 1: Excellent, all right, let's get on back on track here.
Speaker 1: Nintendo bags GLAD nomination for Paper Mario's trans representation. This
Speaker 1: comes from Ali Reynolds at Nintendo Life. Nintendo has received
Speaker 1: a nomination for the upcoming thirty sixth annual Glad Media
Speaker 1: Awards for its trans representation in twenty twenty four's Paper
Speaker 1: Mario The Thousand Year Door the Switch remake. Then, this
Speaker 1: comes via Eurogamer. The game, launched on the twenty third
Speaker 1: of May twenty twenty four, feature the inclusion of dialogue
Speaker 1: from the two thousand and four game Cuba version version
Speaker 1: that had originally been altered for its release in the West,
Speaker 1: focused on Mario's ghost companion Vivian. The change effectively restored
Speaker 1: the characters trans identity. The Thousand Year Door joins nine
Speaker 1: other nominees in the Outstanding Video Game category, alongside Bloomhouse
Speaker 1: Games wonderful horror title Fear of the Spotlight, which explored
Speaker 1: the relationship between the titles two protagonists, Amy and Vivian
Speaker 1: as well. Uh, this was one of those things where
Speaker 1: it's like people were very happy to see this. The
Speaker 1: character is beloved and as actually probably the best character
Speaker 1: in the game, regardless of any other feelings about this,
Speaker 1: but had to have the trans storyline restored, something really
Speaker 1: nice to see, especially from Nintendo. I remember Tomadaccia Life
Speaker 1: coming out to three DS in the United States and
Speaker 1: and you know globally. Actually it had the same problem
Speaker 1: where it's like, it's a character it's a game about
Speaker 1: character relationships, and you make all your mees and set
Speaker 1: you set their genders, and you set their age, and
Speaker 1: if they are two adult men, they can't be in
Speaker 1: a relationship with one another, not that kind of relationship.
Speaker 1: It is. The game just does not enable that, does
Speaker 1: not empower that, and it's like it empowers so much stuff.
Speaker 1: The fact that it didn't do that was noticeable, and
Speaker 1: Nintendo didn't have really great answers at the time, said
Speaker 1: I guess we'll con try to do better and for
Speaker 1: them to just like kind of move through time and
Speaker 1: the game pops back up from the you know, a
Speaker 1: GameCube game that had to been altered originally and they
Speaker 1: fixed this. It's just nice to see, refreshing to see
Speaker 1: and it wasn't some lightning rod because it was just
Speaker 1: well done, a good character and no one cared. It
Speaker 1: was very nice to see. How do you feel about it?
Speaker 2: I think it's great. I think any opportunity that you
Speaker 2: have to expand the scope of your potential audience is
Speaker 2: also great for the business. Allowing people to be to
Speaker 2: see themselves reflected and the media they're interacting with is
Speaker 2: always a good thing, and it's great to see this
Speaker 2: kind of positive recognition for something like that on top
Speaker 2: of the positive business aspects of it. So yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2: And the more representation the better, and the bigger the
Speaker 2: funnel in terms of allowing people to engage in ways
Speaker 2: that they find positive and empowering is great.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, since you did work in publishing
Speaker 1: for so long, how aware are people inside of these
Speaker 1: companies of awards like this of you know, and then
Speaker 1: like the big awards as well, like are they going
Speaker 1: for these things or is it just like kind of okay,
Speaker 1: nice to put it on the shelf. We gotta get
Speaker 1: back to making money.
Speaker 2: They're not going for them, you know, they're so busy
Speaker 2: trying to make a game that they don't think about that.
Speaker 2: But when this happens, it's a huge deal. Like people
Speaker 2: take a tremendous amount of pride and delivering a product
Speaker 2: that brings joy or that people really resonate with. Like
Speaker 2: you know, there's this feeling or this sentiment out there
Speaker 2: that you know, everyone in publishing are these suits that
Speaker 2: sit behind desks and they're just doing these hardcore math
Speaker 2: things to screw over people. And it couldn't be anything
Speaker 2: farther from the truth. Like they're just people that generally
Speaker 2: love games too, And if a game is a hit, fantastic.
Speaker 2: If a game gets this kind of recognition, that's that's amazing, Like,
Speaker 2: and everyone takes a great deal of pride in it.
Speaker 2: You know, these things are generally you know, put right
Speaker 2: up in the front of the office as soon as
Speaker 2: you walk in. Yeah, it's it's a big point of
Speaker 2: pride for folks.
Speaker 3: And so it's a big deal.
Speaker 1: Excellent all right, time to get onto the Adam Boys news.
Speaker 1: Adam Boys launches Vivrado is how I'm gonna say it,
Speaker 1: like a vibrato Vivrado consultancy to help manage big game problems.
Speaker 1: This comes from Dean Takahashi at Game Speed, who did
Speaker 1: a very long, in depth interview with Adam about the
Speaker 1: future and his companies got here, but I did a
Speaker 1: shortened version here. Adam Boys, a gaming industry veteran, has
Speaker 1: launched Vivrado, an advisory company aimed at fostering a more collaborative, sustainable,
Speaker 1: and thriving gaming future. Boys's vision for Vivrado stemmed from
Speaker 1: conversations with a bunch of executives where he identified a
Speaker 1: need for a consultancy firm that addresses the industry's foundational
Speaker 1: changes and helps companies navigate these challenges. Yeah, hey, a
Speaker 1: consultancy consultancy firm is something that you know a lot
Speaker 1: of companies work with. Is my understanding, Matt? Kind of like,
Speaker 1: what is the company usually looking for when they do
Speaker 1: go to a consultant?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean great for Adam. By the way, I
Speaker 2: never really got the chance to meet him. I saw
Speaker 2: him at a PlayStation event back in the day. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you remember those that in Scottsdale they
Speaker 2: had all the retailers come in. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you ever heard about.
Speaker 3: It was a good time.
Speaker 1: They still do that, right, they do something like that,
Speaker 1: but it's not maybe it's not exactly that, not for retailers.
Speaker 2: Nowhere near the scale. It was a good time. But
Speaker 2: that's another story, but great form. Yeah, when this happens,
Speaker 2: you're generally looking for some guidance on how to react
Speaker 2: to situations that, say, you're publishing leadership team might not
Speaker 2: have experience with, and someone like Adam has tremendous experience with.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're you're bringing in.
Speaker 3: Folks to help.
Speaker 2: I have suggestions to think about. No consultant of any
Speaker 2: kind is rolling into a publisher, I mean, of any
Speaker 2: kind is rolling into a publisher and saying you're gonna
Speaker 2: do this. Of course, that does not happen. They come in,
Speaker 2: they say, hey, here's some things that think about, and
Speaker 2: you think about them, and then do you make whatever
Speaker 2: decision you think is best. Like some of the stuff
Speaker 2: you read about what people think of consultancy firms is
Speaker 2: just absolutely wild anyways, But yeah, you're bringing someone in
Speaker 2: to give you some perspective that you don't have in
Speaker 2: the organization. But you know, you take it or leave it,
Speaker 2: and and that's fine. You know, you're just looking for
Speaker 2: ways you're trying to improve, You're trying to provide the
Speaker 2: best product you can and so you're open to all
Speaker 2: ideas that can help do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's uh yeah, the dunning Krueger of people
Speaker 1: who think they understand how this stuff works is always
Speaker 1: impressive to see how can you how can you even
Speaker 1: have this sort of imagination in your head that is
Speaker 1: so incorrect? Ata Boys for people that might be wondering
Speaker 1: at a Boys is the guy from that video where
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, how do you share games on the
Speaker 1: PS four and enhance at the shoe? Hey, Yoshida, and
Speaker 1: then the video ends and then he's been at Iron
Speaker 1: Galaxy for a long time. He was a co CEO
Speaker 1: at Iron Galaxy for for years and years, left them
Speaker 1: recently and now he's doing this. He's also a former
Speaker 1: patient at the Midway Asylum, which was at Midway's EA
Speaker 1: big and I'll never stop bringing up the Midway Asylum.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you worked on a bunch of like Midway
Speaker 1: Sports games and stuff like that. That.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's I'll drink of water.
Speaker 1: All drink of water. Indeed, exactly. Yes, he's got great
Speaker 1: stories from the time working at Midway when I think
Speaker 1: they were working on Blitz the League or something like that,
Speaker 1: and they had f the NFL written all over their
Speaker 1: office and then someone from the NFL was coming in
Speaker 1: so they had to like run around and tear all
Speaker 1: these things down. I'm like, oh, that's that's a good time.
Speaker 2: Midway back in the day is one of those places
Speaker 2: I sure would have loved to have been able to visit.
Speaker 1: Yes, same, I would love to get like some fly
Speaker 1: on the wall footage of what it was like at
Speaker 1: that place, for sure. Chicago Game Developers Man. All right,
Speaker 1: last thing here, reminder, Xbox Developer Director is happening today
Speaker 1: at ten am Pacific time one pm Eastern about and
Speaker 1: out sixty five minutes from now. If you were watching live,
Speaker 1: if you're watching later, and if you're watching live, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do a talkover. We're gonna, We're gonna, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk over. This event should be some pretty good announcements.
Speaker 1: Seems like it's gonna be pretty cool looking forward to
Speaker 1: it myself, so that'll be up on the website, up
Speaker 1: on streaming service and stuff like that. So definitely check
Speaker 1: out that and come hang out with us. This was
Speaker 1: so we got the switch to reveal they're gonna they're
Speaker 1: promising more. In April. Xbox has their Developer Direct happening.
Speaker 1: It's gonna set up kind of what's happening this year.
Speaker 1: PlayStation probably has something pretty soon. Uh, these companies gone,
Speaker 1: they still have to like make these announcements, even though
Speaker 1: it does still seem like a lot of times people
Speaker 1: are waiting for GT six to do what GT six
Speaker 1: needs to do, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we we'd used some surprises this year
Speaker 2: when it comes to the market. There's always a few
Speaker 2: that pop up out of nowhere. We're seemingly nowhere. I
Speaker 2: can't believe they announced one versus one hundreds coming back
Speaker 2: at Xbox. I don't know if that's true, but I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna put that out there in the universe and
Speaker 2: hope it manifests. But yeah, like we're gonna have some
Speaker 2: surprise hits, We're gonna have some surprise failures. Like this
Speaker 2: is just kind of what happens, and this is all
Speaker 2: just part of the wonderful River of gaming. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I look it forward to it.
Speaker 1: Yep, it rushes ahead without us, whether we wanted to
Speaker 1: or not. Yeah, I had one, Versus wondered I. At
Speaker 1: one point I heard it was in development, but it
Speaker 1: was at a team that has since been sort of disbanded,
Speaker 1: so I don't know. I yeah, oh no, Oh, he's
Speaker 1: thrown his desk out the window. Everybody stand back, all right,
Speaker 1: Paul questioned, From yesterday, we got it right here. Let
Speaker 1: me get this set up there we go, news s
Speaker 1: sets move that over there. Okay. Do you have you
Speaker 1: ever spent more than ten dollars to buy a game
Speaker 1: on your mobile device?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I think I bought one of those like Final Fantasies
Speaker 1: or or Chrono Trigger at one point. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I ever played it, So I will say yes,
Speaker 1: and thirty two percent of people said yes, sixty eight
Speaker 1: percent said no. This is the kind of thing where
Speaker 1: it's like yes, some people might have it might be
Speaker 1: like me, where it's like years and years ago, I
Speaker 1: bought one game for that price and then Super Mario
Speaker 1: Brothers Run and I'm ma Maria fan and I didn't
Speaker 1: even buy that. So we've just got brought up Matt
Speaker 1: because of the reporting that when they look at the numbers,
Speaker 1: seems like resideval too, and all those residuaval games that
Speaker 1: got reported to iPhone didn't sell much more than ten
Speaker 1: thousand copies. And it's like, yeah, it just seems like
Speaker 1: that audience not interested in those games, Like what that
Speaker 1: That's just it's that simple, right, At a certain point,
Speaker 1: it's like they're just they're happy with the games they
Speaker 1: have on their phone for free, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Mobile players want to play games designed for mobile devices.
Speaker 2: Console players want to play games designed for console devices.
Speaker 2: Like it's not hard. That means two things just don't mix.
Speaker 2: The way people play on mobile, how they play on mobile,
Speaker 2: what they want when they play on mobiles entirely different
Speaker 2: than what you would want to do to play like
Speaker 2: a really intense survival horror game, like come on, what
Speaker 2: are we doing here?
Speaker 1: Yep? It's uh. I just remember conversations and quotes from
Speaker 1: the past where people like it. So, you know, people
Speaker 1: the device that's as powerful as a console in their
Speaker 1: in their pockets. So we got to make sure that
Speaker 1: these games will be on those devices if we want
Speaker 1: to keep getting games like this and it'say, oh, that's
Speaker 1: that's not going to work. That's they just want games
Speaker 1: made for those devices. All right, let's see here new
Speaker 1: poll question. We'll get to that here in a second.
Speaker 1: Before we do that, though, Matt Piscatella, why don't you
Speaker 1: tell people where they can find you on the internet
Speaker 1: if you want them to find you on the internet
Speaker 1: and what you have going on and all that other
Speaker 1: good stuff.
Speaker 2: I am on the Blue Sky Matt Piscatella with one
Speaker 2: T because it was the seventies and my mom was
Speaker 2: drugged up and she forgot how to spell Matthew. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm Matt Piscatella and Blue the Sky. Don't yell at
Speaker 2: me about video game sales. I'm just trying to help
Speaker 2: you out. It's all good. But come hang out there,
Speaker 2: and you know, look for us every month we're talking
Speaker 2: about the market and trying to give context and help
Speaker 2: people understand this wacky world. So yeah, I really really
Speaker 2: love everyone who follows me over there, have great interactions,
Speaker 2: So yeah, come.
Speaker 3: On out and hang out.
Speaker 1: Yep, Matt's a great follow just good vibes and good information,
Speaker 1: So definitely go hang out. Say nice thanks to them,
Speaker 1: all right, Pull question for tomorrow's show. Do you think
Speaker 1: Insomniac's Wolverine releases in twenty twenty five? I this one.
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know, so I could really go either way.
Speaker 1: I think I would hope, be hopeful and vote. Yes,
Speaker 1: we'll see what everyone comes up with. But you can
Speaker 1: vote now if you go to YouTube dot com slash
Speaker 1: at giant Bomb, go to that community tab right there,
Speaker 1: you know, vote get the results on tomorrow's show here
Speaker 1: on Giant Bomb. Speaking to Giant Bomb, as I mentioned
Speaker 1: the Xbox Developer direct happening in about an hour. We'll
Speaker 1: talk over that later today. Voicemail, dump truck, plenty of
Speaker 1: fun calls. I don't know, Jan, if you haven't gathered
Speaker 1: up the calls yet, you might get a bunch about
Speaker 1: how many syllables are in the word oil and fire.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna have to We're gonna have to deal
Speaker 1: with this. It's gonna be a problem. And Matt, how
Speaker 1: many syllables is in the word oil.
Speaker 3: That'd be one syllable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go. So it's gonna be a fun
Speaker 1: one and let's see, Oh tomorrow we will I don't know, God,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I do we have stuff planned for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: People are mad, Matt, I say it with two. Although
Speaker 1: I recognize the technicality of it being one oil ol,
Speaker 1: it's how I say it, and so I just feel
Speaker 1: like that's too.
Speaker 2: If you're a dream brother, don't let people tell you
Speaker 2: how to say oil.
Speaker 1: That's the right way, that's right. Actually, never mind, we
Speaker 1: don't have to do any of these calls, Mad, I
Speaker 1: already answered it. Yeah, an anything else met before we
Speaker 1: get out of here.
Speaker 2: Now, this is really a fun, lifelong dream to hang
Speaker 2: out with you on this like, really really cool.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: hanging out with me talking about video games. I really
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Thank you to everybody who is watching
Speaker 1: and listening. You are the best audience in gaming. Until
Speaker 1: next time, have a good one, Take care of yourself
Speaker 1: and oil