WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.879 --> 00:00:02.439 Disclaimer. 2 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:04.599 We'd like to know before the start of this interview 3 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:07.120 that the opinions about to be expressed by the guest 4 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:10.039 of tonight's Getting Salty Experience Podcast are that of the 5 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:13.320 guest and do not directly or necessarily reflect the views 6 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:17.160 of the host of the Getting Salty Experience Podcast. 7 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.560 You're listening to the Getting Salty Experience Podcast. 8 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:46.719 Hello, Hello, Darren DeFries. Who's gonna be busy tonight. He's 9 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:49.039 gonna be my head on a swivel looking for guys 10 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:51.719 who get out of line and kick out of this job. 11 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:55.359 Welcome back to Get Experience Podcast. It's the only one 12 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.079 that brings the firehouse kitchen table to you. And tonight, 13 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:03.159 doozy man, we got a doozy. We got a guy 14 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:05.959 on here who's I got more emails and texts. But 15 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.560 you know how the brothers are bro right? Yeah? What 16 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:11.680 of the What are the brothers like? But one of 17 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:13.719 the brothers. Two things that the brothers. 18 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:17.439 They don't they would hate the way things are and 19 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:18.280 they don't like change. 20 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:22.480 Right, That's the brothers. That's it. I was. I was 21 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.719 on the beach after Louis posted that on our social 22 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:30.359 media and guys would send it in these ship on Facebook. 23 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:33.079 My wife is looking on him like these guys are 24 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:34.920 man babies? What is going on? 25 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:37.040 I put the disclaimer too, you. 26 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:40.319 Did, right, I'm just gonna put a disclaimer right now. 27 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:41.599 That was a lot. There was a lot of good ones, 28 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:44.640 a lot of you know, that's what everybody, You're not 29 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:46.439 gonna we're gonna get. This is what we do. We're 30 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:49.159 gonna we're gonna talk to the guy. We're gonna get 31 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:52.799 some of the questions that people had asked answered because 32 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.959 he's not afraid to answer the questions. Does I don't know? 33 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:58.319 In fact, the guy were trying to get on. Chief 34 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:00.840 Pritchard said that he has no problem. I'm asking questions. 35 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:02.239 He's gonna be tuned in. I don't know if he's 36 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:04.239 in the chat right now. I'd love to put him 37 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:05.680 against you know, right up to him and say, hey, 38 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:08.360 you coming on the show. What Chief Richard? But he 39 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:11.719 was saying, the guy answers questions. So every side has 40 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:14.560 two stories. Every story has two sides. Right, just wait 41 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.120 here to hear the man's side of the stories. Three 42 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:21.759 sides that actually happened. Well, that's what happens, that happens 43 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:23.280 with your wife. I don't know if it happens with 44 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:28.520 the commission. So I'm just gonna tell you right now. 45 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.319 If you get disrespectful, I will boot your ask right 46 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:34.319 out of this chat. I will not allow you to 47 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.879 hijack Louis and and Gonzo show. It's not happened. You 48 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:41.599 got a question, ask it respectfully. Otherwise beat feet, You're 49 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:42.400 gonna get kicked out. 50 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:43.439 Pay for it, you cheap. 51 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:45.919 Yeah, if you got a question, put it up there 52 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:47.800 and pay for it, will you. I'm on a fixed income. 53 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:52.479 Paycheck to paycheck you, Speaking of which, Gonzo play some 54 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:54.080 of the commercials so I can get paid. I can 55 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:55.840 put food on the table for crying out. 56 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:58.599 Me too, Me too. We're gonna do New Jersey Fire first. 57 00:02:58.599 --> 00:02:59.000 Here we go. 58 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:03.520 Established in nineteen thirty and under the current ownership since 59 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:07.439 nineteen eighty seven, the New Jersey Fire Equipment Company handles 60 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:11.680 a complete line of fire department equipment and supplies. Headquartered 61 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:15.719 in Greenbrook, the company operates full three M Scott service 62 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.960 facilities in Ridgefield Park and Tom's River staff by ten 63 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:24.120 fully authorized Scott's certified technicians with a fleet of six 64 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:28.039 fully equipped service fans. All New Jersey Fire technicians and 65 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:33.240 sales representatives are active or retired firefighters, officers or chief officers, 66 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.280 career and volunteer. They understand the business and. 67 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:38.639 The importance of their work. 68 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.719 New Jersey Fire has represented Scott since Earl Scott entered 69 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:44.680 the SCBA business at the end of. 70 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:45.400 World War II. 71 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:49.280 Among other leading manufacturers represented by New Jersey Fire, Art 72 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:54.680 Globe and Fiedex, Turnout, Gere, Mercedes Hose, task Force, Tips 73 00:03:54.680 --> 00:04:00.080 and Akron Brass, hi Genol, fire hooks, Arctic Impressors, MSA, 74 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:05.599 Carnes Helmets, Keemguard, Phone, Alcoholite and Duo safety ladders, BA 75 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.560 Face shield Protectors, Truckman's Choice saws, Groves, gear racks and 76 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:16.720 washer driders, Supervac Fans, RPI stream Light, and many others. 77 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:20.439 A New Jersey incorporated and based company. Sales and service 78 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:22.959 are limited to the state of New Jersey. Find us 79 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:27.360 now at www dot nj f E dot com. That's 80 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:36.040 www dot nj f E dot com. 81 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.279 All right, all right, we'll roll one more. The commissioner 82 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:42.399 knows that you know what's fine colt coins, So we 83 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.040 got to do what we can. We got to scratch 84 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:46.079 out some money. 85 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:47.439 These smirking emails. 86 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:52.199 Here we go Armor to firehouse Forlorn was recently installed 87 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:55.720 in Station number seven, the newest of the Dacab County 88 00:04:55.720 --> 00:05:00.360 fire stations in Decatur, Georgia. Meeting Deputy Chiefs Myth of 89 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:05.399 Support Services, Vince explained that Armour Tough interlocking flooring is 90 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:07.879 the only floor that is tough enough to withstand the 91 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.800 abuse of fire apparatus along with fire personnel at a 92 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:16.560 very busy station. Chief Smith explained the flooring in all 93 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:19.720 of our stations over the years gave us multiple problems. 94 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.240 We need a floor that can last as long as 95 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:25.720 the walls and the roof. That's why we chose Armour Tough. 96 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:29.240 The installation team came from New Jersey and in three 97 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:32.759 days they had completed their work without any disruption to 98 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.600 our daily operations. We were very impressed with not only 99 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.199 the product, but with the workmanship as well. I highly 100 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:44.439 recommend Armour Tough for your station's floor. Call Vince today 101 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.839 for a no obligation quote at nine oh eight nine 102 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:50.680 one seven seven six nine seven. 103 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:57.399 There we go, guys. You're asking how how you made 104 00:05:57.439 --> 00:05:58.680 out in the storm guns. 105 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.079 Yeah, I got stuck. Wy don't you tell him? 106 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:03.399 He made that really good? He stayed with me for 107 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:12.800 about a week. The kids will call him Uncle Gon's album. 108 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.079 It was a permanent fixture at the kitchen table for 109 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:15.639 a little while. 110 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:16.199 That's all right. 111 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:17.319 You have a lot of water. 112 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:21.639 No, uh, you didn't. 113 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:22.879 You didn't get hit that over by you? 114 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:23.120 Then? 115 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:23.759 No, it was. 116 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.800 It flooded the north part of Florida and the and 117 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:29.519 the Big Bend as they call it up there. But 118 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.040 that's that area always gets bombarded. Man, when the storms 119 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:32.600 come up that way. 120 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:36.000 It's I guarantee you that the hurricane wouldn't blow your 121 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:37.639 hair out of whack, bro, that's for sure. 122 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:40.079 Trying to make sure I appreciate the comments. 123 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.279 By the way, I can feel you. All right, remind 124 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.720 me we got to do health and safety tip towards 125 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.439 the end. Yes, I'm leaving that with you, gotcha. All right, 126 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:53.160 let's say it for I don't want to call him Tom. 127 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.319 You want to call him the commissioner. You want to 128 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.680 miss the commission. You're like Tom though, like you call 129 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:02.199 kill Duff and right, I got to bring him in there. 130 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:07.680 You bring him in all for fd N Y commission 131 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:08.480 to Tom von Essen. 132 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.480 He wanted. 133 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:21.800 To keep He said he had to keep his wits 134 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.000 about him. He didn't want to get off to uh. 135 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:27.639 You know a bet you started up. You started off 136 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:29.839 with a good name. Then killed Uf was top of 137 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:30.240 the line. 138 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:31.120 There you go. 139 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:33.399 See, and I like to call him Louis. 140 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.720 Louis calls him and I call him chief killed Uff. 141 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:37.360 I don't know throwing whatever you want. 142 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.040 I n felt funny calling you Tom, he said, call 143 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.480 me Tom. I don't know about him. 144 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.120 It's the voice. All right, let's do the uh. 145 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:49.439 Patriot, we gotta patriotic quick, here we go. 146 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:56.519 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States 147 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:01.079 of America and to the Republic, for which it stands, 148 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:09.199 one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 149 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:21.079 And one other thing we haven't done for a while. 150 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:25.240 That commission von Essen brought to our attention is our 151 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:29.759 word of the day guns. Yes, today, his word of 152 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:30.480 the day is. 153 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:36.919 I think that's what he said in the pre show. 154 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:38.960 He's not going to drink tonight because he might use 155 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.360 that word fifty times tonight, so cool is probably going 156 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:43.000 to be tipsy and about. 157 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:46.519 I'm right there with you, so hopefully. 158 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.120 How many guys told you not to do the show, Commissioner. 159 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:53.440 Well, I told you my brother who always gave me 160 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:56.240 good advice. He was three thirty two engine a delegate, 161 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:58.000 and when he drove me for a long time, he said, 162 00:08:58.039 --> 00:08:59.720 do not do that show. 163 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:00.720 He said. 164 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:02.840 Those guys are do to show are good guys, he said, 165 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.240 but you get some real blockheads and. 166 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:06.320 What about hairbags? 167 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:10.000 And he oh, all right, let's take it easy. 168 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:16.440 You just got here. First of all, thanks were coming 169 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:18.639 on the show, even though your brother told you not 170 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.759 to come on the show. Well, you appreciate it, Commissioner. 171 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:26.759 He was always right too. This time he's wrong. We're 172 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:29.919 gonna make sure his time he is wrong. All kyla, Shoot, 173 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:31.759 I was watching too. He probably not watch I don't 174 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:34.919 see him anyway. Let's go. Let's go back a little 175 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:36.720 bit to the beginning, because guys probably don't know. Let 176 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:40.440 me find you a little bit about your history on 177 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.039 the job. Commissioner, Uh, tell us about what made you 178 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:44.960 want to be a finman. 179 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.679 Was anybody in a family of fiming or No, I 180 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.679 didn't come from a firefighter family. I was uh in 181 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:54.120 college and I was a real screw up. Screwed up 182 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:56.039 a couple of times, got thrown out a few times. 183 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.639 I joined an officers program. They threw me out of 184 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.519 the officers program. I was in Submarines. So I went 185 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:04.279 in Submarines for a couple of years, had a wife, 186 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.840 a baby, another baby on the way. I came out. 187 00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:09.240 I really needed a job, so I went on thinking 188 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.919 I'll go back to school now and study and leave 189 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.159 and get another job. But then when I finished college 190 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:18.159 on the job, I really loved it. It was so 191 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.840 much fun. The guys in the South Bronx that I 192 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:23.639 worked in were just a really great company, a lat 193 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:26.840 of forty two, and so I stayed. I loved it. 194 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.440 The guys were just great, and it kind of ruined 195 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.960 me for you know, the rest of my thirty two 196 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.360 years on a job, because I never had any patience 197 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:41.200 with hairbags. I'll try to use the sound the fact 198 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.120 after working with such phenomenal guys in in South Bronx 199 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:45.399 all those years, well he. 200 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:48.879 Got out in seventy, which was like the middle or what 201 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:50.840 was that like over the war years? How was it 202 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:52.440 over there? It was crazy. 203 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:54.600 I mean they say that the worst years were sixty 204 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.320 five to seventy five. Those are the worst years I 205 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:59.639 think in the fire service as far as fire doing 206 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:02.799 so caught five you know, quite a few good years, 207 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:04.879 and then you know, they were the worst years. But 208 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:07.440 it was busy for a long time. The company I 209 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:10.960 was in was an occupied area in sixty five, and 210 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.480 then it became more and more and more vacant as 211 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:17.399 the neighbors deteriorated. So it was the South bronx Halem 212 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:20.720 parts of Brooklyn. That's where you know, all the crazy 213 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.960 work was at the time, and that's where everybody you 214 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:28.000 know made their bones. It was just good places. The 215 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.559 good guys stayed. The other guys realized they were in 216 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:34.120 the wrong place, and it was It was a terrific experience. 217 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:36.200 I think for a young guy. 218 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:38.440 Some of the guys you had to weed out, right, 219 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:41.480 they didn't know necessarily that they were in the wrong 220 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:45.279 place maybe, or that those guys just you know, you know. 221 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:47.679 The funny thing. The funny thing about the fire duty 222 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:50.039 you didn't have to weed anybody out because it was 223 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.240 real easy to get out of those units. 224 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:52.720 At the time. 225 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:55.399 It's hard to get in, so when you got in one, 226 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.440 you could easily get out if it was wrong for you. 227 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:03.639 It wasn't all the guys that that left weren't bad guys. 228 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:06.080 Some of them just thought like, well, what's the point here. 229 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.679 You know, I'm getting paid a dollar a guy in 230 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.720 slow houses getting paid the same dollar. What am I doing? 231 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:13.919 You know, taking all the risks and everything. So the 232 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.240 guys had to be a little nuts, But I enjoyed 233 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.720 being with guys a little nuts with some of the guy. 234 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:21.440 You remember, Okay, I was just gonna say that. 235 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.120 You seenior guy there was? You know who was you 236 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:26.399 seeing the guy was? Were there a lot of World 237 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:28.440 War two vets that were seeing the guys there? 238 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:32.080 Yeah, yeah, well they were They weren't that old, you know, 239 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:34.960 they weren't World War two vets. It was one of 240 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.519 two guys. They kind of left. It was so busy 241 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:39.080 that the older guys really left. 242 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:39.320 You know. 243 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:42.759 The old guys were like thirty five and forty an 244 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:45.480 old guy. Then it was just so much fire duty. 245 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:47.200 And they called the house the Elephant house at the 246 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.360 time because the guys were so big. I was about, 247 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:52.320 you know, six foot, like one ninety and I was 248 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.240 tiny at the time, and guys are really powerful and 249 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.679 strong guys. The house next to it, we were the 250 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:05.279 Elephant house. The engine was Latasa Kaka, right, Yeah. The 251 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:07.679 guys in the truck, you know, it was really a 252 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.399 German guys. Everything was clean and spotless. The guys in 253 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.639 in the engine I think deliberately kept the place as 254 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:16.519 shitty as possible just to annoy the guys. 255 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:19.120 That sounds about right. 256 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:22.960 Yeah, nothing changes, you know, that's it. 257 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:28.159 But did you stop becoming interested in the union and 258 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:29.559 representing the guys? 259 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.320 You know? I I finished college, I finally got my 260 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:34.679 act together, and then I got a graduate degree and 261 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.039 I was going to teach. And then I started teaching, 262 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:39.120 I realized I didn't like kids as much as I 263 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.039 like my own kids. So I said, you know, the 264 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.480 guys in the Union had asked me to run, and 265 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:49.399 I said, you know, oh, I tried it, and I 266 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:52.399 wound up winning. They were like eight guys that ran 267 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:54.720 for Trustee and it was a runoff and then I won, 268 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:57.679 and it was just I guess, just for a change, 269 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.399 you know. Yeah, and I liked it. There's a lot 270 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:03.480 of parts of the Union you don't like. You know, 271 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:06.240 you don't like all the work you have to do 272 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:11.240 for the hairbags, but you do like, you do like 273 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:13.639 what you do for the good guys, because a lot 274 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.399 of good guys get jammed up and you want to 275 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:18.720 help them, So that was the fun part of it. 276 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:21.679 The other guys that if you had a business, you 277 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:24.120 would have fired them too. But that's the union's job 278 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:25.320 to represent everybody. 279 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:28.080 So were you were? You were a delegate before you 280 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:30.720 ran for trustee though, right, so what yeah, what made 281 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.399 you want to you know? Where did that come from? Though? 282 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:34.000 Just time? 283 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.879 I didn't I didn't want to be a delegate. The 284 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:39.679 delegate was a senior man. His name was Werner van Helsing. 285 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:45.399 He was about he's about up there, man. Yes, yes, 286 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:47.120 he came up to me one day and he said, 287 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:48.879 you're the new delegate. 288 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:50.600 And that was it. 289 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.120 He didn't want he didn't want to do it anymore. 290 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:57.879 So I was a delegate. 291 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.360 Yeah, I know those I used to get all that, 292 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:03.120 like eleven o'clock at night, Hey, keV, because I was 293 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.720 a delegate. Listen. I went down to the quartermaster. I'm 294 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.000 supposed to get two pairs of shorts. The guys only 295 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.080 gave me one pair of shorts. I'm like, you call 296 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:17.440 me eleven o'clock, call me a eleven o'clock, me one 297 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:22.360 pair of shorts. It really is a factless job. Man. 298 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:24.840 You get to the union and you see another side 299 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:27.399 of the job. You know, right, So then you ran 300 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:31.919 for what Brooklyn trustee. No, it was a Bronx trustee box. 301 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:32.440 I'm sorry. 302 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.399 Then it ran for secretary and uh. That's when I 303 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:39.200 started getting involved in safety, which was really an eye 304 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:42.440 opener for me because I always thought that as busy 305 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:46.159 as we were, we really weren't interested in safety. We 306 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:50.960 were we were very aggressive. We enjoyed the excitement, and 307 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.000 I saw so many injuries and everything, and I thought unnecessary. 308 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:56.720 I saw you know that, and we mentioned we talked 309 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.320 about it before. The good chief, the conscientious chief, the 310 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:02.320 major do woll things to keep you safe. You didn't 311 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.200 like him. You like the other guy who drank with 312 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.240 you and let you do whatever you wanted to do, 313 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.480 and he was the popular guy. So I got kind 314 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.039 of I turned off on it. I started to visit 315 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.240 all the fight departments around the country, and I found 316 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.960 out that the safest fight departments the ones who were 317 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.639 able to train and equip and everything else, So the 318 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:23.759 ones that didn't do any fire duty. And it was 319 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:26.879 really hard to keep guys safe because even if you 320 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:28.960 don't do fire duty, you're going to get a fire 321 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.399 once in a while, and you really have to be prepared, 322 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.679 and I don't think odd job worried about that years back, 323 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:39.120 training everybody and keeping everybody sharp because they thought all 324 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.159 the guys were doing fire duty. Well they knew what 325 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:42.879 they were doing. They didn't have to bother with them, 326 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:45.799 you know what I mean, So you kind of let go. 327 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:48.639 All the people would need the most training. The people 328 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.240 will be getting friars infrequently. So it opened up my 329 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:57.000 eyes and I for me it became safety became like 330 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.919 a mandate for the rest of my time on the 331 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.240 job and for my you know, rise up in the 332 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.759 department and or the union and then president and then 333 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:08.119 five mission. 334 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:10.359 Right, well you when did you get to when were 335 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.359 you in the union? From what years? You remember? 336 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:16.440 Like yes, eighty three to the ninety. Wow, we all 337 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.839 got thrown out because we had an arbitration that we 338 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.319 warned the guys not to go to. 339 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:23.039 Uh. 340 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.200 Nick Mancuso as the president at the time, he begged 341 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.519 the guys not to go. Bruce Simon was a really 342 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.599 bright labor attorney. He begged the guys he used to 343 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:33.880 come to the meeting. Do not go to arbitration. Do 344 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.599 not go to arbitration. You have so many perks in 345 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.319 your contract that you know, you aren't even aware of. 346 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.279 When you go to an arbitrate, all that all that 347 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.480 shit disappears, and then you you're almost starting all over. 348 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.519 We had battalion detailing. I mean, what a perk that was. 349 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.920 You you never got detailed out of your battalion, right, 350 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:54.559 So that was a lot of money for the guys 351 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.480 in the pocket because you had to detail more people 352 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.640 in every battalion because you you couldn't take guys from 353 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.279 one battalion and detail them to so things like that. 354 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.720 So we went to arbitration, we got crucified. Of course, 355 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.039 the members blamed Nick and all of us. They threw 356 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.319 all of us out, which was pretty funny. I went 357 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:16.640 back to the firehouse and almost retired, and then I thought, 358 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:18.519 you know what, I'm gonna run for president. I went 359 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:21.839 back and ran for president after that nineties. 360 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:25.039 I want to touch on one thing that we spoke 361 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.559 about a little briefly when you were talking about the chiefs. 362 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:31.640 You know that the guys love like we talked about 363 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.720 my brother a little bit, Chief Steve, and you wouldn't. 364 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:36.960 You can't find a guy who loved the job more 365 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.680 you did, like forty two forty three years, oh, there 366 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:45.319 we go. And he was a professional. He loved the job, 367 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:47.440 he loved that fun. But he was a professional. He 368 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.519 wanted you away to the right uniform. He wanted you 369 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:52.359 to drill. He did not put up with any drinking 370 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:53.880 in the fire house and nothing like that. And the 371 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.319 guy couldn't stand him for that. They like the guys 372 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:58.839 who they think is a great guy, you know, the 373 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.359 great guy who hangs out with you or you know, 374 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.720 let you get away with ship. So that's that's the 375 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.680 whole misconception on this job that drives me fucking crazy. 376 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:10.880 The guys that that the brothers deem as really great guys. 377 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:12.960 Me and Louis say it all the time. Are they 378 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.279 really great guys? Ben? You know, like when I got 379 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.839 on the job I used to write things down in 380 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.640 a little journal about how I would check the rate. 381 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:22.480 The guys took it and tore it up and threw 382 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.200 it in the garbage on me. So I mean, you know, 383 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.200 or you know, if you wore your rope or whatever 384 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.079 it was the guys used to hide on me. I 385 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:31.799 don't wear that. We don't we don't, we don't wear that, 386 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:32.240 you know. 387 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:34.920 So well, hold on, you could still have You could 388 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.839 still have a good a guy who's less what's the 389 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.680 word down the line or you know, and still yeah, 390 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.680 less strict, and he could still be sure a great guy. 391 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.440 I mean, it's not one or the other. But I 392 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:52.200 get to bear somebody just because he Because what I 393 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.920 say all the time is I know Steve not for 394 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.039 I grew up in Kevin's house, Like I was in 395 00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:58.880 his house every day he had, His father was on 396 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:00.920 the job, his two brothers were on the job. So 397 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.400 I know Steve as a ball breaker, funny guy, you 398 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.519 know what I mean. Like, but in the fire department 399 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.799 he was you know, like you said, he was straight 400 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:10.319 on the money. You know. I would see him at 401 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.000 jobs and it was all business. 402 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.880 You know, if he did the right thing, you never 403 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.240 had to worry about the guy. But they didn't like him, 404 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.880 So I don't I never understood that logic. 405 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.759 Yeah, well it's I think it's pretty much systemic, and 406 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:26.440 I think it's pretty much always been like that. I 407 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:28.599 don't know the answer to it. All I can say 408 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:33.359 is you the more work you have, the easier it is, 409 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:35.640 I think to manage the guys, you know what I mean. 410 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:38.880 It's when you have nothing going on that the guys 411 00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:40.640 become more of a problem, like they don't know what 412 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.119 to do with themselves. He gets stuff more in trouble, 413 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.039 and then there's more of stuff that the chief has 414 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.920 to react to, and then they're annoyed at him because 415 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.240 he's he's putting a hammer down on him and stuff. 416 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.079 So when there's plenty of work, you know, years ago 417 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.319 you came back, you had a beer after a job, 418 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.440 and you thought nothing of it because now lady had 419 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.839 another job. You can't have a beer and a beer 420 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.160 and a beer and a beer and have twelve beers 421 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.400 and have no work and then get a call face. 422 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.400 So you know. 423 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.039 That is different. When we're really busy, you could have 424 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:17.440 a few beers. I mean, so you didn't. You can 425 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.960 understand the chief turning his head to that a couple 426 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.240 of beers. You know, a guy's sitting in a place 427 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.880 that doesn't have a run for twenty four hours and 428 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:28.480 he's having drinking every time somebody says heir bag, you know. 429 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.359 You know, Oh, so I've got a real block. 430 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:35.480 You got my own problem. Keep the guys safe. You 431 00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:37.559 gotta have that balance. I think you got to care 432 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.680 about them. You got to care about the training and professionalism. 433 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.839 You got to think about the you know the excessiveness 434 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:45.880 of injuries and everything else. 435 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:47.519 But you can still be a good guy. I mean 436 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:48.880 you don't have to buy Oh listen, you got to 437 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:50.559 take care of the guys in the end. I mean 438 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:52.000 we'll just talk. We were talking about it in the 439 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:55.720 pre show with you about you know, Kevin's particular situation 440 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:59.160 and other guys like that's not by the book, right, 441 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.440 So you all took care of the guys. You still 442 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.319 took care of business, you know, and not to be liked, 443 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.039 but that's what you felt was the right thing to do, right, 444 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:08.559 So you know. 445 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.319 You know guys like killed off, guys like Pete Gancy, 446 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.920 you know, they were there were a lot of good 447 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.599 chiefs uh uh downy. I mean those guys that they 448 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.119 knew the difference, you know, and then all of the 449 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:24.119 other guys that were really strict that the guys were, 450 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.160 you know, less popular. I mean Callan's in that picture. 451 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.000 Calln was a phenomenal chief Alturi. Really they were good chiefs, 452 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.440 you know, like and they were liked guys, I mean 453 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:38.400 hand they were. They weren't disliked or anything. They managed 454 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.880 and they still understood the camaraderie and the spirit you 455 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:44.880 need to ask people to do some of the things 456 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.640 we asked the guys to do, you know what I mean. 457 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:50.119 It's not just a regular job sometimes, you know, like 458 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.799 I said to Steve before the you know, everybody wants 459 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.759 to be the man until it's time to be the man. Well, 460 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:56.960 it's just like going to a job, right, you know, 461 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.599 this job is great except for you know, getting hurt 462 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.119 and really laying it all out there. So it's not 463 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.559 just mutuals in time off. You know, sometimes you got 464 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:09.279 to you got to put it out there. And the 465 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.920 good chiefs will always get more out of the guys, 466 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.319 I think than the bad ones. 467 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.359 You know, I think, Yeah, that's come to any officer 468 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:18.599 is like that, right. When did you feel like when 469 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.200 you were in like it was like a wake up 470 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:23.839 call to you in the union when you would whether 471 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.599 you were the delegate or when you became the trustee, 472 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.640 When did you start waking up to that? You know 473 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:30.440 the political side of all of that. 474 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:33.759 You know, the first couple of years there were just 475 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.880 you know, servants and the guys. The trustee really gets 476 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:40.039 down and dirty, just running all the injuries and hospitals 477 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:42.799 and stuff. The drunks and and all that stuff, and 478 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.920 then the secretary gets more involved. I got involved, like 479 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:50.599 I say, with well, I met Chief Brunusini. I was 480 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.319 working on getting back demanding that we lost even when 481 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:55.279 I was secretary, that we were able to get back 482 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.680 when I was president. So it was probably a couple 483 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:02.519 of years into being secretary that I realized that you 484 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:04.240 could really do a lot, you know, you could do 485 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:05.119 a lot of good stuff. 486 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.400 Yeah, so now we were talking about like you were 487 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.640 talking about, like you know, Guanty and all those other 488 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.160 chiefs Calendar right, like you thought they were really good chiefs. 489 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.319 But there are some guys who think that you have 490 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:20.559 a disdain overall for chiefs. What do you say to 491 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:21.240 something like that. 492 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.240 No, I just I don't get it, you know, I 493 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:26.880 see it now. I look at people in Congress, right, 494 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.000 you take an oath, you swear you're going to do 495 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.559 the job, and then you don't do it. I don't 496 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:35.240 get that, you know, I take an oath I'm going 497 00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:37.240 to be a commissioner. Well, I'm going to do stuff 498 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.240 is commission The commissioner's job is not to make you 499 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.559 happy every day, to bring you a nice warm blanket 500 00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:46.400 and hot shalutput. The commissioner's job is to keep eight 501 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:49.480 million people safe and get you to do your job, 502 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.200 but keep you safe along the way. That's the main 503 00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:55.720 job of the commissioner. So there are an awful lot 504 00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:57.920 of chiefs in my opinion, as managers. 505 00:24:58.200 --> 00:24:59.319 Horrible, horrible. 506 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.920 I think I think that I sent you guys a 507 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.240 picture of that one where I got the headquarters and 508 00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:08.039 I got rid of half of them. They as people 509 00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:12.039 in headquarters running the job, in my opinion, terrible. I 510 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:13.839 think that you can do a much better job with 511 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.440 a young pure No. No, there was another one with 512 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:20.200 von Essen becomes commissioner, gets rid of half of eighth floor. 513 00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:22.079 That kind of oh the article. 514 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:28.519 Anyway, I had guys, I had a PhD in physiology 515 00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:31.359 that I had out in at a division of training. 516 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.440 I had guys who who loved you know, who loved 517 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:38.640 the technology, who loved the part of the of the 518 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.240 job that we could help modernize it. Would you rather 519 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:44.640 have a lieutenant with who's a marathon runner and he 520 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.079 has a PhD in physiology? Would you rather have him 521 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:50.240 running physical fitness at training? Or would you rather have 522 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:53.680 some forty year old chief forty year chief who just 523 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.279 wants to you know, on his way out, wants to 524 00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:59.039 be ahead of training. That was my point that you 525 00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:00.759 can make the job is but the police do a 526 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.119 much better job, but that they don't have the four ranks. 527 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:05.960 They have three, we have four, we have deputies. I 528 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.119 wanted to do away with the deputy rank and just 529 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:10.839 pick the best battalion chiefs in a job. Get the 530 00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:13.720 look at the pool of battalion chiefs and take the 531 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:17.240 best ones. There's hundreds are terrific battalion chief There's hundreds 532 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.640 are terrific. I see the guys in the job now, 533 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.400 there's a lot of military guys, lieutenants and captains, and 534 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:24.599 they're spread out through the squads and stuff like that. 535 00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:26.640 Those are the guys you want to lead the job 536 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.799 because when they're in the military, they were accountable. You 537 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.559 don't get you don't just coast in the military, and 538 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:35.720 when you got twenty five years in the military, they 539 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.799 tell you you're going nowhere, you probably should retire it. That 540 00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:42.079 doesn't happen in the fire department. It's a civil service. 541 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.279 You're here forever. You can coast, or you can or 542 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:48.079 you can give it a thousand percent. I wanted everybody 543 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:49.880 to give a thousand percent or else just go back 544 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:52.519 to the fire house or retire. That's my feeling about 545 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.759 the chiefs. I think they are allows the managers in general. 546 00:26:55.079 --> 00:27:00.839 I think this bologna about having a chief that's is silly. 547 00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:02.680 I think one of the best ones we ever had 548 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:06.160 was Safer. He walked in there and he said, Holy mackerel, 549 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:08.839 this guy is. You guys are a rinky think operation here. 550 00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:11.240 I'm gonna we're gonna get a headquarters. We're gonna do this, 551 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:13.240 We're gonna modernize, We're gonna do this. I was in 552 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:15.880 the Union and I realized, like, Wow, we don't have 553 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.200 to be sick and fiddled to the cops. We can 554 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.240 really get emergencies. We can do this, We can do that. 555 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.119 We were always like behind the cops because we've always 556 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:28.119 pissed off every mayor we've ever had. We figured a 557 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:31.319 way to have him hate us, and Juliani was the first. 558 00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:33.599 Juliani was the first one that didn't. He loved us, 559 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:36.119 He loved me, he loved the guys, and he gave 560 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.279 us so many things other than the two zeros that 561 00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.279 you guys will always whine about that. Juliani has said 562 00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:43.759 to me, I'm so sorry I did two zeros. I 563 00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.079 should have just done one. 564 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.000 You know what I mean. But you. 565 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:50.920 Before we get too fat, I just want to say 566 00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:52.559 one question because I think get be wound up. 567 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:53.440 I'm sorry, I don't. 568 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.960 So commission, let me ask you this. So when you 569 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.240 get back to the story with the chiefs. So it's 570 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.160 the system. It's not it's not the guys so much. 571 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:04.759 It's the system, right or no? 572 00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:08.599 Some of those guys are great guys. Are you kidding me? 573 00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:08.359 You know? 574 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:09.960 I mean, you want to hang out. 575 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:11.200 With them, You want to be with them at a 576 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:13.799 fire You want to you don't you know, you don't 577 00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:17.839 need somebody that's running the Office of Information Technology and 578 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:21.279 just say, well, you know he knows how to do Firefox. 579 00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:23.640 And well that's what I'm saying. He's thirty years in 580 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:26.119 the fire, forty years in the firehouse, he's in front. 581 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:28.240 You know, he knows how to deal with guys men. 582 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:30.200 You know, he knows how to do it. Now all 583 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:32.559 of a sudden he's in charge of this. That doesn't 584 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:34.759 make any sense to me, right, So it's not it's 585 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:37.960 not their fault so much like I don't know why 586 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:40.359 guys would say that you had dislike for those guys 587 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.559 if it really isn't their fault because they've kind of 588 00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:44.440 that's the path, right, isn't it. 589 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:44.680 No? 590 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.680 Of course, well, of course the chiefs are gonna say 591 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.119 on us and hates us because they just got rid 592 00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.359 of half of them in fire quarters, you know what 593 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.240 I mean after September eleventh. They just went back to 594 00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.200 the way it was. So you guys haven't witnessed any 595 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.880 changed in improvement and management. But you don't have to 596 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.880 in the fire house. You just want you just want 597 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:06.759 to be left alone and have fun and go lift 598 00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.119 weights and train and and have and have pone with 599 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.119 the guys. When the commissioner's job is to make sure 600 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:15.799 overtime's not abused. He's to make sure medical leave is 601 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.400 not abused. He's to make sure that everybody is safe, 602 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:21.519 that all the all the all the all the procedures 603 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.880 and everything are in place, that there's that there's not 604 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.160 a prejudice or there's not all these things that can 605 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.279 go on in the fire house. So you need people 606 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.559 to help you do that. The civilians do a much 607 00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.480 better job with that stuff. The chiefs belong, in my opinion, 608 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:37.920 and you know, people don't agree, and that's fine. They've 609 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:41.359 never run the department or or seen what I've seen 610 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:44.400 in the Union. The best, the best people are guys 611 00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.319 like Sayer. Joe Bruno is a great commissioner, but he 612 00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:50.039 had a horrible time with the mayor. You know, you 613 00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:51.640 have to have the support of the mayor. I mean 614 00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.960 I was very fortunate. I mean, Nigro spent eight years 615 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.960 with the worst mayor in the history of mayors. I mean, 616 00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:01.319 has ever been anybody worse than uh de Blesio? I 617 00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:04.119 don't think so. So you gotta you can only do 618 00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:08.039 so much when you have a mayor that really is horrible. 619 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:11.359 And now Adams seems to be, you know, on the 620 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:13.720 same track. They've got Banks, who is running in the 621 00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:16.480 fire department of police bomb It's it's not a good 622 00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:18.759 way to go. They well, that's another thing. You guys, 623 00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:19.960 what's your next question? 624 00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:22.359 Let me let me just he's wound up. 625 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:23.920 Well, he's wound up. 626 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:24.079 Man. 627 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:27.119 I'm gonna just push back a little bit. Like you said, 628 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.480 they should get rid of the deputies. But there are 629 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.599 some good deputies at that. Like to think my brother's 630 00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:35.240 a good deputy who did not put up with overtime abuse, 631 00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:39.079 did not put up with medical leave abuse. Uh and 632 00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:42.200 and he and he ran a fire because I drove 633 00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.400 him my last year before I got out. I thought 634 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:49.319 he was a great chief. So I think sometimes they 635 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.000 feel like you're painting with a wide brush, like like 636 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:53.039 all the deputies. 637 00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:55.839 No, So it's that's the point. 638 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.720 It's not. 639 00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:58.920 It's not the individual deputy. 640 00:30:59.039 --> 00:30:59.200 Right. 641 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.960 Let's say there's forty deputies, right, those guys could be 642 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.319 forty senior battalion chiefs and you could take the best 643 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.160 battalion chief instead of having to take a deputy. That's 644 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.279 the point. It's not the individual. It's a system. Now, 645 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.079 your brother's a great guy. Added the forty deputies, there's 646 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.559 probably thirty great guys. That's not the point. They were 647 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:23.559 great guys maybe in managing the firehouses and managing the field, 648 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.759 manning the operations at a fire. That doesn't mean that 649 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.519 they're going to do a great job as the assistant 650 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:34.640 commissioner for diversity or the Assistant Commissioner for planning and 651 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:39.720 programming incident management teams or anything like that. That's the point. 652 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:42.559 But what I hear you saying is that that leaf 653 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.119 to staff chief where they find little nooks and crannies 654 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.480 to hide out. And that's the problem at the front light. 655 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:50.359 It's at the front line guys who will going to 656 00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:53.920 fires absolutely okay. 657 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.279 And that was money. 658 00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.480 Those guys are great guys. Those guys you have to 659 00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.480 have them for fires. I mean, God, you got to 660 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.519 have those your chiefs who have been around. I would 661 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:05.559 imagine a big problem in the department today is that 662 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:09.519 there's so few chiefs that actually have fire experience, right, right, 663 00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.279 I mean I see a lot of the guys they 664 00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:14.960 came on in two thousand, they came on in nineteen 665 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.720 ninety eight. Well since nineteen ninety eight, you haven't had 666 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.640 a lot of fire experience. So that means it's all 667 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:25.559 book learned, and it's all you know, learned from whatever 668 00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:27.839 wherever they're learning all this stuff. It's not the same 669 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:30.920 thing as you know, being in combat. So it's much 670 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.240 harder for them, I would think. But they but a 671 00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.640 lot of them are going to do a great job. 672 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.519 But it doesn't mean that they need to be running, 673 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.559 you know, operations on fire state. I mean when I 674 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:41.160 was when I came on a job, they used to 675 00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:46.319 call fire prevention luids, right, because anybody who was there 676 00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:50.000 on light duty and fire prevention. They had a miracle, 677 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:56.119 they were cured. So the work lewis you know what 678 00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:00.519 I mean. I can't see myself absolutely, but I mean 679 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:04.440 that's the point. That's the point. Fire prevention is very important. 680 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.160 We should be so you guys can laugh like you 681 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.680 don't want to prevent fires, you want to go to fire. 682 00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:16.440 If you're the commissioner, you should be trying to prevent fires. Duh, right, 683 00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:20.279 I mean that's your job as commissioner. It's not to 684 00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.279 let you guys have fun twenty four hours a week. 685 00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.000 It's to prevent fires. Have you ever seen a commissioner 686 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.319 come out and say he really wants to prevent fires? No, 687 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.039 because the guys are get pissed off. 688 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:33.000 It's nuts. 689 00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:36.759 It's not so we started fire safety education and fire prevention. 690 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:41.200 Try to bring a civilian in to run fire prevent 691 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:46.759 You can't have fire guys running fire prevention. There should 692 00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:49.440 be a fire chief there to make sure that this 693 00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:54.680 crazy civilian engineer doesn't do anything stupid to put firefighters 694 00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:58.640 in danger. Absolutely, But all these processes and everything else, 695 00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:01.039 that's a big business. Fire it's a big business. It 696 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:02.559 should be run like a big business. 697 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:03.000 You know what. 698 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:05.160 They came up to me one day when at five inventions. 699 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.719 They said, Commissioner, I said, I got a call. I 700 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:10.519 told them, I said, I got a call that you 701 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:13.760 guys won't let the Secretary of Navy land on the Intrepid. 702 00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:18.800 They said, yes, Commissioner, it's it's a museum. So I said, 703 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.639 the Intrepid is a museum. Yeah, I said, so I'm 704 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:24.840 going to tell the Secretary of Navy that he can't 705 00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:28.559 land his helicopter on the interpret because you guys say 706 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.679 it's a museum. Get out of here. Put an engine 707 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.599 there with a charge line. If he crashes and burns, 708 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:38.320 put the flavor. What are you kidding me? This is 709 00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:39.719 the mentality. 710 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:41.800 So this was the thing I wanted to ask you. 711 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:45.400 It kind of segues into this so, I mean, even 712 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:48.039 for myself, I think before you even came on, when 713 00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.079 we had the little issue with the with the computer, 714 00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:53.639 I was talking to Gonzo and I'm like, I'm like, 715 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.039 why would they wouldn't they take Faifa? They took Tucket, right, 716 00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:59.440 And that comes back to your point, like do you 717 00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:03.960 feel like the guy who's the field is the commissioner 718 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:07.639 or gal is the commissioner should be outside of the 719 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:11.559 fire service. Is that What do you think about how 720 00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:13.159 that generally works out, because the way you were just 721 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.000 explaining it, you feel like it might work better for 722 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.400 that type of scenario. 723 00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.920 I think, first of all, it's hard to generalize, okay. 724 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.800 I mean, I'll take Safe for an example. He's comes 725 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.079 to witness Protection and after Julian he gets elected, they 726 00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:29.480 bring me in and they say, we're going to do 727 00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.280 you a favor. We're going to give you chief what 728 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:35.079 the hell is his name, good guy, nice guy. We're 729 00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.119 going to give you Chief so and so as fire commissioner. 730 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.079 I said, oh my god, he's horrible. I don't want 731 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:42.000 that guy. I said, he's a great fire chief, nice man. 732 00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:46.079 He's a what his name it was with dinkins and stuff. 733 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:48.039 I forgot his name anyway. So he said, well, who 734 00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:50.079 do you want? I said, I don't have anybody. I said, 735 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:51.960 I'd like somebody who thinks big. And he's a friend 736 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:55.079 of the mayas well. A month later, Safer arrived. He 737 00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:58.920 was exactly very full of himself, you know, bigger than life. 738 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:01.679 You know, didn't on a listen to anybody, think he 739 00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.440 knew everything. But he didn't put up with anybody's shit, 740 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:07.920 and all he did was ask questions. When he sat 741 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.039 in the room with a bunch of chiefs, he would 742 00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:12.840 call me. We had a great relationship, he say, he said, 743 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.199 these guys, he said, what is it with these guys? 744 00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.559 They just whenever you ask them something, they say, well, 745 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:19.920 that's the way we always did it. Does that mean 746 00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:21.719 you got to keep doing it that way? Because he 747 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.320 always he used to ask why, and they couldn't give 748 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:28.679 good answers. He couldn't wait to clean house. They hated him. 749 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:30.599 It's just that he was only that two years, so 750 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:33.360 they were really ready. When I got there, he hated 751 00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:36.559 me even more. But I got rid of most of them. 752 00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:39.960 But after September eleventh, you know, Scopetita didn't have the 753 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.760 stomach to do anything. And then Cassano was the chief 754 00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:44.760 and I was a chief. You know, it's hard for 755 00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:47.480 the chiefs to stand up to them. I always thought 756 00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:49.800 it was like the Catholic Church. You know, the Catholic church. 757 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:51.840 You get a priest that fools around the little boys. 758 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.360 They sent them to a girls school, you know what 759 00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:57.400 I mean. The fight apartment is like that. You guys, 760 00:36:57.519 --> 00:36:59.320 you get a guy that's really bad in the South 761 00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:03.480 Bronx of the queens. Well after twenty years, After twenty years, 762 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.239 you had some really bad chiefs and queens. So what 763 00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:08.039 do you think is going to happen? Are they breaking 764 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:10.239 the guys in the right way? Are they teaching the 765 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:12.000 guys the way it should be, the way they do 766 00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:13.320 it in Harlem, the way they're do it in the 767 00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:16.199 South Bronx and Brooklyn and all the good No, Manhattan, 768 00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:18.719 Manhattan is a you know, they never had a lot 769 00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:22.320 of fire duty, but they had tough jobs, really tough 770 00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.920 job you don't want to go to. The chiefs were 771 00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.119 really good chiefs and they would discipline. Why because they 772 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.320 want to walk into a building, you know, and look 773 00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:33.880 like the way we used to look and bron I mean, 774 00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:36.119 we couldn't figure out a way to look more shitty 775 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:40.000 with holes in the you know, the quartermaster at least 776 00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:43.760 made us start to look like we're professionals until the quartermaster. 777 00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:46.039 I mean, you got a uniform allowance and use it 778 00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:50.079 for Christmas, Christ Christmas time. You never don't spend any money, Yeah, 779 00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:52.119 it came in good. You never spend any money on you. 780 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:53.840 So you feel like you would go that way, like 781 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:57.000 you would lean more towards not having somebody that's been 782 00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:57.800 involved in the fire. 783 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:03.440 Absolutely, absolutely, but you need somebody who's compassionate and understands emergencies. 784 00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.880 I would have gone to military. I had recommended to 785 00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:10.719 Bloomberg and to Adams to go with a former military guy, 786 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:14.039 because the military guys are accountable, but they also understand 787 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:18.480 warrior mentality. They also understand people who put their lives 788 00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:20.920 at risk. I mean, she was she was a bad 789 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:23.199 choice from the beginning. She was at the Blasio person. 790 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:27.360 She took no advice. She she just hit her hete. 791 00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:30.000 She hid in the office every day. I think she 792 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.599 was afraid, you know, she just she was a disaster. 793 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:35.840 But they said her planner, that's what her resume was. 794 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:36.920 She was a party planner. 795 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.920 She was just a real political You can have a 796 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.679 political appointee, you know. I mean they used to be 797 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.360 like that. Joe Bruno was was a judge. She became 798 00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:49.880 a judge leader on. Joe Spinando was a big commission somemer. 799 00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:53.800 Joe Hines was an attorney general additionrict attorney. So you've 800 00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:57.840 always had political people, but they also understood, you know, 801 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.440 how to manage things. I don't think she ever managed anything. 802 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:04.400 You know. No, let me ask you a question, Commissioner. 803 00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.519 I'm now speaking about the optics of it. When you 804 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.400 went from the head of the union to the commissioner. 805 00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:15.320 Do you think that that was bad optics? Do you 806 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:17.639 think that was I mean, how would guys look at 807 00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:19.320 that as going from. 808 00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:20.440 Well, how did that even happen? 809 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:21.960 Yeah? Okay. 810 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.320 So one of one of the reasons I thought I 811 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:31.000 would do this show, one of these that before. One 812 00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.159 of the reasons I actually agreed to do your show, 813 00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:37.000 against the advice of my brother. I saw some of 814 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.320 the comments. I saw some of the comments on a 815 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:41.679 letter I had written to the Post, and one of 816 00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:44.639 them talked about how I committed treason, you know, And 817 00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:46.880 I thought to myself, you know, this guy might be 818 00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.559 a nice guy. He might he might have an IQ 819 00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:53.559 higher and forty, but he might not. So I thought 820 00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:55.400 I should at least be able to explain to you 821 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.679 guys what happened. We did a tremendous amount of work 822 00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:04.039 for Juliani, mostly because the city was in a toilet dinkins. 823 00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.239 Our guys hated him. They hated him out and out 824 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.960 hated them. I became president, and I said, well, even 825 00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:14.679 that even the screaming uh union guys on my board 826 00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:18.480 all were in favor of supporting Juliana. So we support him. 827 00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:22.239 We really support him. We got five hundred uh they 828 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:24.960 call him pole watchers. They were certified by New York State. 829 00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:29.679 Danny DeFranco did an unbelievable job organizing everybody. My brother 830 00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:31.639 was doing it in Brooklyn. We had a lot of 831 00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:35.239 guys that really helped out in every borough. So after 832 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.719 he gets elected, he's very appreciative, and I guess he 833 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:40.960 brings me in, finds out who I want to be commissioner, 834 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.639 They bring in Safer. Safer and I had a great 835 00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.639 relationship for the two years. And then he calls me 836 00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:50.679 one morning and he says, and I heard the rumors 837 00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:52.559 that he was going to PD. He always wanted the 838 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:52.840 p D. 839 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:53.199 He was. 840 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:56.239 He was basically a copy he was and he took 841 00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:58.159 I guess he took the fight upon it as you know, 842 00:40:58.440 --> 00:40:59.719 second choice. 843 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:01.199 But he was great for us, I thought. 844 00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:03.719 And then so he calls me, it's like seven o'clock 845 00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:05.599 in the morning and he says, I'm going to PD. 846 00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:07.880 I start cursing at him. I don't want to curse now, 847 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:11.519 and you can and I said, you fuck. I said, 848 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:15.039 I can't believe you. You're doing all that. I said, 849 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.400 but you've been great for us. I really appreciate all 850 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.480 you've done. I wish you good luck. He said, there's 851 00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:23.199 another part to this. We want you to become fire commission. 852 00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:25.239 I said, what are you crazy? You're going to get 853 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:28.440 me killed. I said, I'm running for election. I'm running 854 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.920 for election in August. I said, guys are cruc I 855 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:32.400 don't throw my name out there because I know what 856 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:35.119 they do. They always throw three names out there. They 857 00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.440 know who they want, but they throw three names out 858 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:39.480 there just to see what the press and the reaction is. 859 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:41.840 So he said, no, you're the only you're the only one. 860 00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:44.280 I said really. So he says, yeah, if you want 861 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.679 it to, May is going to call you. I said, yeah, yes, 862 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:49.280 you know. I went in my room. My wife said, 863 00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:50.840 what's that? I said, they want me to be fire 864 00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:54.079 COMMISSI And he says, what you know? We were like nobody. 865 00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:56.719 I mean, the people that hate you don't believe that. 866 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:58.559 What's That's a stack of money in there, That's what 867 00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:01.800 it was. 868 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:04.039 It was. It was weird. So anyway, then I go 869 00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.079 over there, they they vet me out you know, down 870 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.320 the basement all day and there's some really good stories 871 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.880 about what happened that day. And the guys in the 872 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.760 union were drinking all day and they weren't using the 873 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:19.039 word hairbag, but they were drinking. Thing there was, there 874 00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:21.280 was a lot, We had a bar in my office, 875 00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:25.679 so you know, then I'd hit commission, and like you say, 876 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.280 half the guys, UH thought it was the best thing 877 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.039 that ever happened, because now the fox is in the henhouse. 878 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:33.679 The other half thought you sold out. So you couldn't 879 00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:37.480 You couldn't possibly please everybody. I remember UH going like 880 00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:40.880 this taking my hat off at my swearing in, and 881 00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:43.039 Tommy Lamancha says to me, the word in the Bronx 882 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:44.559 was the litter is off. 883 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:50.320 Oh boy, I was gonna say, God, I had to 884 00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.000 believe the Bronx was on your side. 885 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.000 No, but I mean drink yeah. 886 00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:59.519 Yeah, So you know, no matter, you couldn't please everybody, 887 00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:01.679 but I knew, and I think I sent you guys 888 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:04.639 this one. You know, this talks about all the stuff 889 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:10.039 that we didn't that didn't happen to us, because you know, 890 00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:13.280 there were so many perks that we got from me 891 00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:15.960 being in a position like that that the fight Department 892 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:18.519 didn't suffer from and the mayor loved the fight apartment, 893 00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:21.480 you know, he really did. And you know, I think 894 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:22.400 it was all positive. 895 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:22.599 To me. 896 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:25.920 It was the greatest job ever until September eleventh, and 897 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:27.840 it was the worst job ever. 898 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:30.639 And why do you think they looked to you like 899 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.880 you're sitting on the other side of the table, right, 900 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:35.800 Why why do you think that they thought that you 901 00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:37.719 would be the best guy for that job? Oh? 902 00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:39.920 I think they thought, first of all, I was smart, 903 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:44.480 I was honest, I had balls, and they were The 904 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.800 merger for EMS was in March, right, that I supported 905 00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.000 as a union president because I thought it was good 906 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.679 for the guys, money wise, training, safety, everything else. So 907 00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:58.000 it happens in March. I get appointed in April, So 908 00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:02.719 they I think they want I think they wanted to 909 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.440 reward us, the fire department me, and they also wanted 910 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:08.639 somebody who could make it work, because the guys did not, 911 00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:11.960 you know, as much as they've I voted, I put 912 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.519 out a ballot and everything when I was president about 913 00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:17.239 doing EMS work, and they said the guys voted yes, 914 00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:19.880 But when it really came, they didn't want to do it. 915 00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.320 You know, the busy engine companies now had too much 916 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:27.280 to do, and then the camps didn't want to do anything. 917 00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:31.039 So it was a mix. But I think in a 918 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:32.920 long run, and that was one of the things that 919 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:36.320 I talked before about going around the country as a 920 00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:39.039 as a secretary, I found that that's where all the 921 00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:43.880 departments were going because they really fired. Duty was going down, down, down, down, 922 00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:45.920 and it was a way to protect jobs. 923 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:46.440 For me. 924 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:49.920 I did it for selfish reason. I thought it would 925 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.559 make our guys safer. I thought, if if someone was 926 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:55.440 having a heart attack, if someone I saw how shitty 927 00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:59.760 an operation EMS was when they were at Health in hospitals, 928 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.400 they were terrible. Tum Fitzpatrick a terrific Deputy Commissioner, and 929 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:07.239 I went over to meet with Health and hospitals after 930 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:10.760 I was commissioner. You would have thought they did everything, 931 00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:12.519 but ask me what EMS. 932 00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:13.280 You know what I mean? 933 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:16.719 Like they had They were clueless on how difficult the 934 00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:20.679 job that people in EMS had and how little support 935 00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:22.960 they had, how they didn't have good amblers, how they 936 00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:25.559 didn't have good training. Most of them, I shouldn't say 937 00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:27.079 most of them, but an awful lot of people were 938 00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:29.679 really out of shape too. And so we tried to 939 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.440 raise the whole level of EMS as we called out 940 00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.079 a lot of people. We started giving more training, make 941 00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.880 it harder to get on. And the EMS people have 942 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.519 been screwed because they never got the right money that 943 00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:44.719 they were supposed to get. We made promises to them 944 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:48.079 that and it's like twenty five years ago more than that, 945 00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:50.719 that they would not We didn't promise parody, but we 946 00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.599 promised that they would sometimes get to like where sanitation 947 00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.760 was eighty percent. I can't believe how much what those 948 00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:00.519 guys make. It's incredibly terrible. It's terrible. But the starting 949 00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:03.880 em T guy makes and du Blasia. When I was 950 00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:05.840 at FEMA, you guys got me on a roll here 951 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:10.320 when I was at it. When I'm at FEMA, the 952 00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:12.599 Blazer said to me one day, he says, what can 953 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.320 I do for you? Because now everybody loves you? When FEMA, 954 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:17.920 because I had a checkbook, I was just given everybody. 955 00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:20.360 I mean, when I was at FEMA during COVID, I 956 00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:22.239 really gave a lot to the city. I got in 957 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.360 trouble with Cuomo for andever that's another story. So the 958 00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:27.000 Blaiser said to me, what can I do for you? 959 00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:29.079 I said, or you can really wanted do something for me, 960 00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:31.559 take care of the MS, because I made them promises 961 00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:34.199 twenty years ago when nobody's delivered. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna 962 00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:36.199 do it. He's done shit for them too, So they 963 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:38.239 have really been screwed. And what I saw them do 964 00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:43.119 during COVID phenomenal. What they did, the doctors and nurses 965 00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:46.119 and the emergency rooms and the EFTs and paramedics going 966 00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:50.119 to and from the emergency rooms for remarkable. What they did. 967 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:54.719 They deserve every award or nobody wants awards, they want 968 00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:59.119 better salaries. They really deserve to be compensated and reward 969 00:46:59.199 --> 00:46:59.880 for what they've done. 970 00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:04.559 In my opinion, MS saved firehouses too, right, Oh, I. 971 00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:07.599 Was just gonna say that, cheap chief, I mean, commissioner, 972 00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:11.679 that was we would we would have been closing firehouses, 973 00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:15.000 no doubt. But during your tenure, I believe that you 974 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:20.880 that you start one thirty three. Uh you also uh 975 00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:24.960 Jamaica Avenue too, Jamaica Avenue, that was my next one. Yeah, 976 00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:30.440 and let me get back a one new division and 977 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:36.840 two new companies added rights two ninety four in Richmond Hill. 978 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:38.119 And the fire and the fifth Man. 979 00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:43.519 Thirteenth Division yeah, right, So do you think that because 980 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:47.159 we were doing more now with the MS that allowed 981 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:48.480 you to open these companies? 982 00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:53.000 Absolutely? Juliani was so supportive. First of all, I was 983 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.719 able to make a good case because I mean, I mean, 984 00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:58.639 you can you can see I mean, you can hate me, 985 00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.400 but you gotta believe I'm telling you the truth. I mean, 986 00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:04.960 you know, I've never had a reputation for being anything 987 00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:08.079 but an honest guy. Maybe not that smart, but not 988 00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:11.679 stupid and honest, okay. And I could make cases to 989 00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.280 Julianni and everybody else for stuff that I was able 990 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:18.440 to convince them. I mean Whenihan came up with the idea, 991 00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:21.519 I think it was Bill or the heml fits about 992 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:25.559 changing uh slow engine companies into squads, which is something 993 00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:29.320 you guys, thank you the squad the squads to me, 994 00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:33.199 other than the fact that you know, losing ninety guys 995 00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:36.880 on September eleventh at a special operations, which is like, 996 00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:47.039 so that's a separate thing. But the creation of them 997 00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:51.360 was phenomenal. Right, So we get these camps and some 998 00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:55.400 weren't that slow. One was was. They were pretty slow. 999 00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:56.559 So we come up with the. 1000 00:48:56.519 --> 00:49:00.519 Idea was really slow. Yeah, you could say, you can 1001 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:05.519 say and again and again. So it starts because some 1002 00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:07.840 of the chiefs are telling me, he said, boss, you 1003 00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:10.880 know I can have a fire and have nobody at 1004 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:11.920 the fight and sell. 1005 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:14.840 They're doing. This is really he says, yeah, and and 1006 00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:17.119 and it's always in the best neighborhoods. It wasn't in 1007 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:20.159 the shitty neighborhoods. It's always in the good neighborhood The 1008 00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.639 good neighborhoods always got the worst. Yeah, worst, excellent, I said, 1009 00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:26.599 when we were when we were crazy in nineteen sixty five, 1010 00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.880 where was the worst fire companies? College Point, white Stone, 1011 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:36.480 Staten Island, North Bronx, Eastern Queens. Really good, those are 1012 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.119 the places. They got the oldest piece of equipment, they 1013 00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:42.480 got the oldest firefighters, they got the least motivated firefighters, 1014 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:45.280 and then all the good stuff was happening where the 1015 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:47.920 poor people were. So how do you how do you 1016 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.559 help the chiefs get good people at the jobs. So 1017 00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.840 the idea was, let's create the squads, and it was. 1018 00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:57.679 It was a big investment, but not like having five 1019 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:01.599 new companies, because we're just we had the people, we 1020 00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:04.159 had the engine, but we you know, we gave him 1021 00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:06.960 more equipment more training, everything else. They were an awful 1022 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:07.599 lot of training. 1023 00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:10.360 Well that's how it was sold. That's how you solved it. 1024 00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:12.639 Yeah, it sold it. It was it was strictly it 1025 00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.800 was all me selling it because no matter how much 1026 00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:18.679 we we uh, I used to go through this at 1027 00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:20.360 the union. You know, we used to sit with the 1028 00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:22.840 ten guys on the board and we'd make all these 1029 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:26.480 arguments and we'd say like, okay, well we've convinced ourselves. 1030 00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:29.239 Now we just have to go and convince the city. 1031 00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:30.000 You know what I mean. 1032 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.519 It's it's it's great to sit in the firehouse and 1033 00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:34.880 have all these solutions, but then somebody's got to go. 1034 00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:37.480 The mayor ultimately is the guy who says yes and 1035 00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:39.960 no for all this stuff. So we convinced them to 1036 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:42.559 do it, and it was just it was for now. 1037 00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:44.840 And the best part of the squad is the way 1038 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:46.559 we did it. I don't know if I told you 1039 00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:50.360 guys that, but we we picked five captains, right, good guys, 1040 00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:54.800 Tommy Richardson, Dennis Uh you know really, uh, what's the 1041 00:50:55.159 --> 00:50:59.480 training guy? Tracy? Terrific guys. Terrific guys. Right, So then 1042 00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:02.280 we bring him in and we say, okay, I'll give 1043 00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.920 you guys one pick. It was like a little league drafted. 1044 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:09.559 They could pick lieutenant so and so each one got 1045 00:51:09.559 --> 00:51:12.039 a pick and then they would trade, you know, and 1046 00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:16.000 then we allowed them. The best part, the best point 1047 00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:19.920 was the tryouts we had. So we have uh Terry Hatton. 1048 00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:23.320 We put him in charge of the tryouts. Terry, he 1049 00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:25.480 was a phenomenal guy, but he was he could really 1050 00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:28.480 be you know, he could be rough. So anyway, he 1051 00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:31.559 has the tryouts. So the Union sues me right away. 1052 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:34.320 They said they wanted the tryouts. 1053 00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:38.239 On it, right, Yeah, we were, That's what we were were. 1054 00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:43.039 Godde the Union wanted. So what did I do? I 1055 00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:45.920 had it really fast before they could get to the arbitrator. 1056 00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:48.519 So I had the tryouts real quick. 1057 00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.199 Terry and Ray Downey are over there saying that guy's 1058 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:55.360 he's slowly ship, he's fat, he's that. We don't want 1059 00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:57.199 that guy, we don't want it. So they pick all 1060 00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:59.559 these guys and we wound up with a great group 1061 00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:02.400 of people. I mean people who wanted to be in 1062 00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:05.440 a busy place, people who wanted to go for more training, 1063 00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.360 who wanted to work for Tommy Richardson or Jerry Tracy 1064 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.880 or Dennis which I don't know anybody that wouldn't want 1065 00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:14.280 to work for those guys. I forget who the other 1066 00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:17.960 two camps, but we're all really solid, wonderful guys, you know, 1067 00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:22.920 And it was just the greatest experiment that I can remember, 1068 00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:26.360 except for you know, who would you think you're going 1069 00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:31.719 to have higher and further into harm's way on September eleventh, 1070 00:52:31.719 --> 00:52:36.360 But those guys, you know. So anyway, it was one 1071 00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:37.400 of the best things I did. 1072 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:40.280 Betch let me tell you something. You just said something 1073 00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:43.840 that just struck a chord with me. When I went 1074 00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.559 to what we all went to the squad, Dennis Murphy 1075 00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:49.679 sat us down and just said said to us, listen, 1076 00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:53.800 I love you guys. You guys are very motivated, but 1077 00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:56.679 I just want you to understand you just put yourself 1078 00:52:56.920 --> 00:53:01.519 in that much more harm's way because you're going to 1079 00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:03.920 be going to everything. So that fact that you just 1080 00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:06.119 said that, now, I'm like, holy shit, I can't believe 1081 00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:09.719 that's the conversation that Dennis Murphy had with us. But 1082 00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.960 you know, he had a whole roster of motivated guys 1083 00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:15.360 who just wanted to work. 1084 00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:17.880 We talk about like on the other podcast, like in 1085 00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:20.639 your career I'm sure it's even similar for you. You 1086 00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:23.280 have like these sweet spots. You know, not every year 1087 00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:25.519 and not every time is great, right, but there's a 1088 00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:27.000 couple of times in there where it's a couple of 1089 00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:29.440 years you're working with the same guys before people get 1090 00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:32.920 promoted or they get retired or whatever, and you just 1091 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:36.519 have these sweet spots. And we say all the time, 1092 00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:38.719 like from nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and one 1093 00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:42.280 was like such a special time, especially for us because 1094 00:53:42.280 --> 00:53:45.400 we had, you know, the whole the whole company changed 1095 00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:47.280 over a lot of places. Some of the guys stayed, right, 1096 00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:50.079 but our whole company was twenty five new guys, all 1097 00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:53.320 new officers, and everybody was on the same page, and 1098 00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:56.440 we had a good mix. We had seen a couple 1099 00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:59.000 of senior men. Hank Mauley, we still call him senior dude. 1100 00:53:59.000 --> 00:53:59.719 He's always in the chat. 1101 00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:02.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we still, uh. 1102 00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:04.800 We still you know, we were really into the job, 1103 00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:08.199 and uh, you know, we talk about how special that 1104 00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:11.039 time was because you don't get that, you know, the 1105 00:54:11.119 --> 00:54:13.559 career is great, but there's really some good times every 1106 00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:15.559 once in a while that you really look back and say, 1107 00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.719 until you're you're done, right, you look back and you say, 1108 00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:20.280 oh my god, that was such a special time. And 1109 00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:22.000 so you know we were talking about Joe Hunter in 1110 00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:24.840 the pre show, right, he was one of our favorite guys, 1111 00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:28.639 you know, missus Hunter, you know, real Irish brogue, you know, 1112 00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:30.519 all the time in Brockville Center. So it was just 1113 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:31.199 a great time. 1114 00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.639 But let's just throw this up. Here's a guy who 1115 00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:36.480 doesn't want to put his own name in there. He 1116 00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:40.039 just puts Hughes name. They didn't close firehouses, they just 1117 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:44.039 pulled the fifth man. I mean, here's the guy that 1118 00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:48.880 they didn't. You're right, they didn't close firehouses bro and 1119 00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:51.239 they didn't pull the fifth man from every company? Right, 1120 00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:53.159 How did that work out cheap? 1121 00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:55.199 That was based off of medical leave? I think if 1122 00:54:55.239 --> 00:54:56.400 I remember, what are. 1123 00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:57.719 You talking about? I don't know what you're talking about. 1124 00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:00.000 Some guy just wrote in the chat, who was not 1125 00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:02.320 of who's not does not the balls enough to put 1126 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:05.119 his own name in there, said they didn't close firehouses, 1127 00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:06.519 they just pulled the fifth man. 1128 00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:11.519 Oh you mean when we looked when we went to arbitration, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1129 00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:15.920 we lost uh one hundred and thirty companies. I think 1130 00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:18.519 lost the fifth man. No, we didn't they didn't close firehouse. 1131 00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:22.000 I mean they were closing fire houses separate from the arbitration, 1132 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:26.199 you know. Uh, and even catch apologize for the way 1133 00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:27.840 they closed the tin house that time. 1134 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:28.960 Remember they sent them out. 1135 00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:32.840 Oh my god, we've had a few guys on the 1136 00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:35.360 show from that. Yeah, that was just there there. They're 1137 00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:38.480 a little pissed off about strategy. That was bad, bad 1138 00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:39.480 plan strategy. 1139 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.000 I mean, when did that happen that they pulled the 1140 00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:47.000 fifth man? Did this guy's ross the staffing? So it 1141 00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:51.800 was an I guess in ninety Yeah, I guess it 1142 00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:54.840 was ninety right with the arbitration, I think it was 1143 00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:57.960 then the roster staffing was. 1144 00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:02.079 They kept sixty sixty of the busiest companies, right, kept 1145 00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:08.519 the fifth man unless medically went down to like some ridiculous. 1146 00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:09.719 So Usana, who throwing that out there? Tell me what 1147 00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:11.920 you what? You what your elevance is right there? Because 1148 00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:17.239 you know it was ninety you weren't even the commissioner then, right? No? 1149 00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:19.360 No, I know, I had no, No, that was just 1150 00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:21.920 you know, you're I was part of the union. Like 1151 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.400 I say, Bruce Simon, the attorney told all the guys, 1152 00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:25.760 do not go, do not go. 1153 00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:26.679 We didn't. 1154 00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:28.760 And I give you some advice to the guys that 1155 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.880 are listening. Whether or not you think your union guys 1156 00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.480 are terrific or they're horrible, listen to them. 1157 00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:36.519 You're better. 1158 00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:40.239 They're better to listen to them than to the kitchen table, 1159 00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:43.760 because the advice you get at the kitchen table. And 1160 00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:46.719 you know what I did when I was the secretary, 1161 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:49.320 I decided, you know what, I'm going to start sending 1162 00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:52.440 the fire lines to the home because I wanted the 1163 00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:55.880 wife to see it. Because my experience was that when 1164 00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:59.440 you when you got the guys individually, very intelligent guys, 1165 00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.320 a lot of our guys, you know, when you sit 1166 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:03.119 down in the kitchen with them, with ten of them, 1167 00:57:03.159 --> 00:57:06.079 you say, holy shit, what what is it? Is this 1168 00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:06.960 Jurassic call? 1169 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:12.519 I say all the time, the end of I remember going. 1170 00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:14.760 I remember when I first got involved with the unions. 1171 00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:17.559 And you know, Nick was terrific, Jimmy Boy was terrific. 1172 00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.559 Jimmy Boy was surrounded like with morons, but he was 1173 00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:23.000 a good guy himself. You know, But you go to 1174 00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:25.440 a union made it be four hundred guys, and it'd 1175 00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:27.960 be a hundred guys, you say, like, holy shit, these 1176 00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:31.679 hundred guys really are stupid. But the other guys were 1177 00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:34.719 just laughing. In other words, they would never call a 1178 00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:36.840 guy out and say, you know, you know you were moron, 1179 00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:39.119 but they would just laugh at them. So you didn't 1180 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:43.159 accomplish anything. The hundred guys are driving the driving the meeting, 1181 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.280 I mean, so it's just and the kitchen is like that. 1182 00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:49.239 You know, you get a couple of guys that listen. 1183 00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:51.199 If you want to be negative, right, it's like anything, 1184 00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:55.760 let the negative steed. You're gonna get negative right here. 1185 00:57:56.039 --> 00:57:58.840 The guy that didn't close fires and just pull like 1186 00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:02.159 that guy could be nice, you know, if you didn't 1187 00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:03.800 have the balls to put it out right. 1188 00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.039 Put So I had to be nineteen ninety three because 1189 00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:09.800 I got on in ninety three, and that's when we 1190 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:12.519 lost the twenty five group shot and we or the 1191 00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:16.159 twenty We went to the twenty five, twenty five, twenty 1192 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:19.599 four yeah right, and then we lost the mini vacation 1193 00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:21.559 and some other shit, if I remember right, like right, 1194 00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:23.239 I only had that for like a couple. 1195 00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:24.840 Of he wasn't the commissioner. 1196 00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:26.320 Then, No, no, I understand, no, I got it. 1197 00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:29.159 I got half of it back when I was commissioner 1198 00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:31.480 and that's a good story. You want to hear that one. 1199 00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:32.320 Yeah. Sure. 1200 00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:38.159 So we go to arbitration and Safer is Safer as 1201 00:58:38.199 --> 00:58:46.039 the commissioner. I'm the union president. So we get this arbitrated. 1202 00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:48.920 A guy named Arthur Gelhun, really distinguished old guys. I 1203 00:58:48.920 --> 00:58:52.039 think he had been in the vers Sign meeting or something, 1204 00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:55.159 I don't know. It was a real arbitrator, really smart guy. 1205 00:58:55.239 --> 00:58:57.480 So he says to me one day, he said, you 1206 00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:00.480 didn't convince me that all your guys, that you five 1207 00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:03.639 men and all your companies. And it looks at Safer. 1208 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:07.840 Uh no, he said it to me, and then he 1209 00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:11.800 said it to Safer. He said, you haven't convinced me 1210 00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:15.079 that they don't need five men and some of the company. 1211 00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:17.599 So he said, work it out. So we work it 1212 00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:20.599 out where I get sixty companies back, We get you know, 1213 00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:25.400 a medical leave range that if we were abusing it, 1214 00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:27.519 we were going to lose the stuff, which never happened 1215 00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:30.280 until a couple of years ago. I think they took 1216 00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:35.000 some of the engines back because of medical leave. But so, 1217 00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:39.400 and then what happens. So Gelhoun dies and uh so 1218 00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:41.719 I hear it that he died and I told Safer, 1219 00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:46.400 I said, my guys got there and I have the decision. 1220 00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:49.639 It was at his bedside, and I won the decision. 1221 00:59:49.960 --> 00:59:50.159 You know. 1222 00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:52.960 So he says to me, full of shit. My guys 1223 00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:55.960 got there and we I got the decision and we 1224 00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:01.400 won a decision. What he could have easily just shit 1225 01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:03.639 candid and we would have to start all over again. 1226 01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:05.679 He went to the mayor, and the may said make 1227 01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:07.519 the deal, and we made the deal. We got back 1228 01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:11.559 fifty companies, which was how was the phenomenal when one 1229 01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:12.880 that's how that goes? 1230 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:13.199 Huh? 1231 01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:18.760 Absolutely absolutely Gil Hunt died and they could have screwed 1232 01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.480 us good, but they didn't. Again, wow, because of the 1233 01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:25.079 relationship that that that we had, you know. So it's 1234 01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:26.880 just you know, for a guy to say, you know, 1235 01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:30.000 it's trees and this and that, they just they just 1236 01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:30.760 don't get it, you know. 1237 01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:33.559 Oh yeah, listen from the brothers to get it. 1238 01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:36.800 So there was another one that I think we talked 1239 01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:38.280 about it in the in the pre show. I was 1240 01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:40.920 I wanted to ask you because that was like a 1241 01:00:41.079 --> 01:00:43.639 hot topic in the chat and some of our social 1242 01:00:43.719 --> 01:00:46.119 media things. And it seems like so long ago, but 1243 01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:48.880 obviously it's still pertinent because there was some guys who 1244 01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:53.679 died about the ropes. Right, So when when I had 1245 01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:55.519 my I got my rope in nineteen ninety three, I 1246 01:00:55.559 --> 01:00:57.199 don't remember. I was trying to look for it. I 1247 01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.840 couldn't remember when they when when they took the ropes away, 1248 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.800 the personal safety harness, right, what do you remember those years? 1249 01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:03.400 Oh? 1250 01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:08.760 Yeah, yeah, we The criticism afterwards was that I took them. 1251 01:01:09.079 --> 01:01:11.079 I got rid of the ropes because of money, and 1252 01:01:11.119 --> 01:01:13.920 that wasn't true. You can look if you look at 1253 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:17.639 any of the records from my six years as a commissioner, 1254 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:21.280 there was more money spent on on so many things 1255 01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:25.360 that you you could never really think that it was 1256 01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:27.719 because of money. The ropes weren't that expensive. We had 1257 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:29.599 spent all the money on bunker gear, We had spent 1258 01:01:29.639 --> 01:01:35.760 all right on the everything, I mean, thermolimity, integrated trucks. 1259 01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:37.599 There were so many things that we spent money on. 1260 01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:38.360 The ropes. 1261 01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.440 I got rid of them because doctor Bizan at the 1262 01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:43.039 time and some of the experts were saying, you want 1263 01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:45.039 to make the guys as light as possible. As light 1264 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:47.360 as possible, they were bulky. A lot of guys weren't 1265 01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:50.719 using them. They it wasn't say that again. 1266 01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:54.440 Say that again. A lot of guys weren't using them. 1267 01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:59.239 Absolutely nobody was using it was used a fact, and you. 1268 01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:01.840 Guys can say otherwise. But a lot of guys weren't 1269 01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:03.559 using them. I don't want to say nobody was using them. 1270 01:02:03.559 --> 01:02:05.760 I'm sure there were a lot of guys using them, 1271 01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:07.920 and a lot of animalts of guys use them even 1272 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:11.639 when I got rid of them. Okay, But the unfair 1273 01:02:11.719 --> 01:02:15.000 part of this was that was I think in so 1274 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:18.960 I left in December of two thousand and one, or 1275 01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:22.079 let's say January first, two thousand and two. That fire 1276 01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:24.119 was in two thousand and five, if I remember right, 1277 01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:27.679 that's three years later. It was two thousand and five. 1278 01:02:27.960 --> 01:02:32.119 So Scorpettita even said he was interviewed afterwards and he said, 1279 01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:35.239 there wasn't one person in the department that asked me 1280 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:39.079 to reinstitute the ropes. Not one person, not one chief, 1281 01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:43.480 not one firefighter, not one anybody went to scopetit. Unless 1282 01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:45.840 he's lying, and I don't have any reasona believe he was. 1283 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.360 He's lying, and he said nobody asked me to put 1284 01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:50.719 the ropes back in. So now they have this fire, 1285 01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:52.119 which was a total cluster. 1286 01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:52.480 Fuck. 1287 01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:55.400 Let's remember if anybody's ever looked at that fire with 1288 01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:59.920 frozen hydrants, illegal partitions throughout the apartment, guys being a 1289 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:03.039 of the fire, without a line, all, all lots of 1290 01:03:03.159 --> 01:03:06.639 issues that were that were wrong, like many of our fires, 1291 01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:09.559 like Watch Street, like Deutsche Bank, like many of the 1292 01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:15.760 fires that go bad. Horrible tragedy happens. So let's blame somebody. Well, 1293 01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:18.559 the best guy to blame is the the old fat 1294 01:03:18.559 --> 01:03:22.639 guy who is uh former commissioner. You know, it's just 1295 01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:25.840 it's it's sad, like I had to testify it was, 1296 01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:28.760 it was, it was terrible. I felt so bad for 1297 01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:31.880 you know, one of those guys that commented last week 1298 01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:34.840 he lost his friend, he lost his buddy. I get that. 1299 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:37.800 That doesn't mean you have the right to distort what 1300 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:38.639 really happens. 1301 01:03:38.679 --> 01:03:41.960 You know, what was that ever plans to get a 1302 01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:47.000 better bag like at that time or was it always 1303 01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:49.880 pushed after like obviously after after the guys jumped, and 1304 01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:52.119 you know, we had you know a lot of scenarios 1305 01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:53.800 coming with you know, I have. 1306 01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:56.760 No idea, you know, uh, First of all, like when 1307 01:03:56.800 --> 01:03:59.360 I made a decision, he was already were already I was, 1308 01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:01.599 you know, when I was gone, And so now it 1309 01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:03.559 happens in two thousand and five, they have all these 1310 01:04:03.639 --> 01:04:06.360 lawsuits and everything else, and I think they've they've gotten 1311 01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:10.840 a lighter, better one since I hope, I hope it's good. 1312 01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:14.559 But I don't know anything about all that stuff, right. 1313 01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:17.440 Yeah, Kevin was saying, like I know, I carried mine. 1314 01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:20.159 It was a brick, you know, from Provo school, and 1315 01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:21.800 I had it in my old turnout coat, and then 1316 01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:24.159 when we got the new turnout coat, it was it 1317 01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:26.239 was a brick, and to the point where I actually 1318 01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:29.079 made my own rope, you know, set up. We talked 1319 01:04:29.079 --> 01:04:31.719 about this. I appreciate Kevin and I A lot of 1320 01:04:31.719 --> 01:04:33.840 guys made their own setups with their own little aides 1321 01:04:33.920 --> 01:04:37.119 or whatever, just like you said, for that fact. But 1322 01:04:37.159 --> 01:04:39.360 I never thought about, you know, writing to the job 1323 01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:41.159 or doing any of the other stuff. I just did, 1324 01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:43.800 you know, what I wanted to know for myself. 1325 01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:48.119 I can't tell you like I had my own setup, 1326 01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:50.599 which guys made fun of me all the time, bro 1327 01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:54.360 other companies. When I used to carry the personal rope, 1328 01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:56.840 guys used to hide it on me. You don't need that. 1329 01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:57.400 What are you doing? 1330 01:04:57.480 --> 01:04:57.639 Man? 1331 01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:03.000 You know So I used to see guys who just 1332 01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:06.960 take the personal rope. They'd be tied up their boat 1333 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:10.039 with it. They'd be highing and stuff in their garage 1334 01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:13.480 with it. I mean, did some guys carry it? Yeah, 1335 01:05:14.079 --> 01:05:15.239 a lot of guys carry it. 1336 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:15.440 No. 1337 01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:20.360 I had my own system worked out. My friend Matt Neary, 1338 01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:22.800 who've had on the show, who was a volley, He 1339 01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:24.920 helped me put together my own system, which I carry 1340 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:27.079 all the time. And I didn't care. Even when I 1341 01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:29.800 carried that, guys used to break my balls from other things. 1342 01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:34.239 Yeah, I would never criticize guys for taking an extra 1343 01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:37.840 safety precaution if you don't feel I mean, some guys 1344 01:05:37.880 --> 01:05:41.119 are lighter and quicker than other guys. Some guys don't 1345 01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:44.519 want an extra five six seven pounds to worry about. 1346 01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:47.800 It makes it makes a big difference. Maybe you get older. 1347 01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:50.280 I remember as commissioner. You know, I used to go 1348 01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:52.440 to a lot of fires and I'd be going up 1349 01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:55.039 the stairs and you know, chiefs would be running by 1350 01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:57.480 me to go up the stairs and you okay, commission Yeah, okay. 1351 01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:02.199 Then I'd slip into a stairway and you know, trying 1352 01:06:02.199 --> 01:06:06.639 to catch my breath. So everybody's in different levels of conditioning. 1353 01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:08.440 So maybe they don't want the rope, maybe they don't 1354 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:10.239 want this, they don't want that. I get it. We 1355 01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:12.559 used to wear work shoes instead of boots because it 1356 01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:15.480 was lighter, and if you had the roof, used to 1357 01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:17.920 wear dungaree jackets. There was a lot of things that 1358 01:06:18.039 --> 01:06:21.880 weren't as safe. But if you had, you know, twenty 1359 01:06:21.960 --> 01:06:25.119 runs a day and you run into the roof looking times, 1360 01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:27.039 you know you you had to. You had to make 1361 01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:30.280 it work for you. So I get guys using not using. 1362 01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:35.360 What I don't like is this misrepresentation. Money was never 1363 01:06:35.559 --> 01:06:36.239 an object. 1364 01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:37.599 Well, that's all I was going to ask you, just 1365 01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:40.679 now was it? What what was the reason that to 1366 01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:44.639 get If guys were just keeping it well, then what 1367 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.599 was the reason like to stop it like altogether? Was 1368 01:06:47.639 --> 01:06:48.039 it just. 1369 01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:49.960 You know, I. 1370 01:06:51.639 --> 01:06:55.400 We well, I guess it was. We had a we 1371 01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:57.760 had to buy them, right, and we've made a decision 1372 01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:00.599 not to buy them because they were too clumb, they 1373 01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:02.719 were too heavy. The amount of guys used, so you 1374 01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:05.679 made that decision. So if somebody, if somebody already had them, 1375 01:07:05.719 --> 01:07:08.400 they had them or whatever. It wasn't I don't remember 1376 01:07:08.519 --> 01:07:11.599 us going around telling everybody. You can't do it. I 1377 01:07:11.639 --> 01:07:14.000 don't remember that, but I wouldn't blame a guy. I'm 1378 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:18.639 not trying to take any blame away from, you know, anybody, 1379 01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:20.760 except for the fact we did. We didn't get rid 1380 01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:22.639 of it. I mean I got rid of scaling the 1381 01:07:22.719 --> 01:07:25.280 scaling ladders and the guys were breaking my chops. 1382 01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:30.559 Remember the scaling ladderader. Yeah, only in probably school. That's 1383 01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:30.960 the only time. 1384 01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:34.199 Yeah, the only time you ever used So what you do, 1385 01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:37.920 somebody's got something to say. Unfortunately for the ropes, we 1386 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:41.880 had that horrible tragedy. And uh, I guess the ropes 1387 01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:44.599 would have been helpful at that particular job. I guess. 1388 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:46.800 I don't know. I don't I never knew why there 1389 01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:50.840 wasn't a regular roof rope rescue, you know, come over 1390 01:07:50.920 --> 01:07:53.320 the side of the building whatever. So it was just, 1391 01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:58.000 you know, when those kinds did, they were just too they. 1392 01:07:57.840 --> 01:07:58.320 Didn't do it. 1393 01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:01.920 Chief Ibby, Chief Commission. Here's a guy who was he 1394 01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:04.199 was at that job, Jeff Coole. He said the ropes 1395 01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:07.159 and harnesses were taken away in ninety nine. There were 1396 01:08:07.199 --> 01:08:10.039 thirty three documented cases that the ropes were being used 1397 01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:13.039 before they were taken away. If they saved one guy's life, 1398 01:08:13.039 --> 01:08:16.439 then it was worth it. That's just from a guy 1399 01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:19.199 who's coming from who was there at that job. 1400 01:08:19.399 --> 01:08:22.159 No I, And he's the guy, if I remember right, 1401 01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:25.680 that said I committed treason. But he's also the guy 1402 01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:29.279 that said that he lost someone who really he really 1403 01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:31.760 loved and he cared about at that fire. And I 1404 01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:35.399 totally understand that. I'm sympathetic to that. All I'm saying 1405 01:08:35.479 --> 01:08:38.600 is the thirty three times that that rope was used, 1406 01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:42.079 I would like to see the documentation of the thirty 1407 01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:46.119 three times. Was it somebody going up a portable ladder 1408 01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:49.159 and he hooked on to help him raise a hose 1409 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:51.800 or was it somebody that actually went out a window, 1410 01:08:52.239 --> 01:08:54.880 you know, using it. So we made a decision. It 1411 01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:58.239 wasn't just me, it was people that we talked to 1412 01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:03.079 before we made these decisions that for twelve thousand guys 1413 01:09:03.159 --> 01:09:05.920 at the time, we didn't think this was a smart 1414 01:09:05.960 --> 01:09:08.680 way to go. The guys would be better off not 1415 01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:12.000 hav any extra weight until somebody could come up with 1416 01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:15.840 a with a better way to do it. 1417 01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:18.000 And even the system now the guys aren't using the 1418 01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:20.880 thing all the time, Okay, I mean, I mean I've 1419 01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:23.479 seen in her cases where guys aren't you know, now 1420 01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:25.319 they have different systems. I think it's in the coat 1421 01:09:25.720 --> 01:09:26.640 because it's a little. 1422 01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:28.479 Bit on the on the hip. If I'm not mistaken. 1423 01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:31.039 It was on the half. Yeah, it was on the half. 1424 01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:32.640 Now it's in the coat, I think. 1425 01:09:32.800 --> 01:09:33.760 Okay, so. 1426 01:09:35.199 --> 01:09:38.680 I'm not gonna you know, I feel very bad that that. 1427 01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.159 No, it's a bad situation, right, no win situation. 1428 01:09:41.319 --> 01:09:41.479 Right. 1429 01:09:41.560 --> 01:09:45.079 I mean, you know, Jeff that texted me and I understood, 1430 01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:48.880 you know, he's pissed off, but we want to make 1431 01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:50.359 sure that we know what the facts are. And I 1432 01:09:50.359 --> 01:09:53.439 don't know what a good answer is that, even even 1433 01:09:53.479 --> 01:09:55.239 after hearing both sides of the story, it's still not 1434 01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:55.840 a good answer. 1435 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:56.079 You know. 1436 01:09:56.119 --> 01:09:58.520 Well, if someone really wants to look at that job, 1437 01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:01.199 I think they ought to look at some of the 1438 01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:04.199 other parts of that job, you know, the the hydrant, 1439 01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:09.359 the the illegal petitions, the then not having a line 1440 01:10:09.399 --> 01:10:11.319 up floor. But there were a lot of things that 1441 01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:14.920 were you know that they don't mention any anyway, I 1442 01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:16.439 don't I don't want to get into No, yeah, we 1443 01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:18.760 don't have to go the law suits and all that stuff. 1444 01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:23.239 It was it's a horrible horrible thing. You know, I'm 1445 01:10:23.319 --> 01:10:24.319 very sorry for that guy. 1446 01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:25.079 Cool. 1447 01:10:26.680 --> 01:10:28.560 You know, he may not think that I care, but 1448 01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:29.279 I do. 1449 01:10:30.439 --> 01:10:36.439 Hmm, what's the other question I had? Yeah, hold on, I. 1450 01:10:36.319 --> 01:10:39.319 Saw him as I have on your thing here the 1451 01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:41.039 bone marrow program. What was that? 1452 01:10:41.399 --> 01:10:45.119 Oh man, that's a great that's a great program. You 1453 01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:48.439 know that started because I I lost a nephew with leukemia. 1454 01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:51.239 And then a guy named Mark kulwats that came to 1455 01:10:51.279 --> 01:10:55.079 me one day. He actually started with Safer and uh, 1456 01:10:55.119 --> 01:10:57.479 he went the Safer and he said he lost I 1457 01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:00.239 think a sister with leukemia and he was in rest 1458 01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:03.600 in starting this bone marrow program. And I don't know 1459 01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.800 if they officially started it with Safer, but then Safer 1460 01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:10.279 left and I got involved and we really went with it, 1461 01:11:10.359 --> 01:11:13.520 and uh, what happened was we it's now the biggest 1462 01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:16.439 program I think in the country, I think more. And 1463 01:11:16.600 --> 01:11:19.720 we're the perfect group you know of guys, because we 1464 01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:22.680 got balls. We're not afraid of a little pain. They say, 1465 01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:26.199 it's like it's like a real I've never been selected 1466 01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:28.600 to give bone when you're old. They don't want it, 1467 01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:32.239 but nobody wants your bone marrow when you're. 1468 01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:36.239 Yeah, it's pickled. 1469 01:11:37.399 --> 01:11:38.600 I don't have anything left. 1470 01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:43.640 That I can donate, but uh, but we started the 1471 01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:45.760 program and I even have a picture right here. 1472 01:11:47.560 --> 01:11:49.479 Holy Patsos did the bone marrow. 1473 01:11:49.520 --> 01:11:56.920 And yeah, he was on the plaque, so this is yes, 1474 01:11:57.039 --> 01:12:00.119 he was. He was the first one, so he is 1475 01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:04.640 that right, he gives the marrow. And a year later 1476 01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:08.159 she comes. She was in Las Vegas. And a year 1477 01:12:08.239 --> 01:12:12.199 later she came and safer. You know, we paraded her 1478 01:12:12.239 --> 01:12:14.520 around everything and I was there and oh guy. 1479 01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:14.920 Was it was. 1480 01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:17.439 So they used to call she for a year. You're 1481 01:12:17.439 --> 01:12:20.159 not supposed to tell a person who gave you the ball, 1482 01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:22.920 so she used to call him miss the nice man. 1483 01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:26.000 I guess her parents there was a nice man that 1484 01:12:26.199 --> 01:12:29.079 uh all the missing It was just one of the 1485 01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:30.439 most rewarding things. 1486 01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:31.319 I think. 1487 01:12:31.359 --> 01:12:33.159 I have a deal a lot of guys. 1488 01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:35.479 There's a plaque in when you go to the medical 1489 01:12:35.479 --> 01:12:37.159 office or whatever, there's a plaque there that it has 1490 01:12:37.199 --> 01:12:38.880 like all the guy's names. I remember a guy from 1491 01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:42.359 the squad Polyipatzos. Uh he did it, and I remember 1492 01:12:42.439 --> 01:12:44.039 always looking at his name when I used to go 1493 01:12:44.079 --> 01:12:46.119 on there. But there was always more names every year, 1494 01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:46.520 you know. 1495 01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:49.560 Great, great program. So one of the One of the 1496 01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:53.960 best stories for me was, which was pine of part 1497 01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:54.640 of my m O. 1498 01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:56.039 I used to speak to. 1499 01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:59.359 The Proby's every year, every every class, you know, so 1500 01:12:59.439 --> 01:13:01.000 I speaks to them. I would say, you know, we 1501 01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:04.800 have a voluntary program to join. If you can join 1502 01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:06.960 the Bone Marrow program, you you know, give a sample 1503 01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:10.199 and everything. And then I said, it's voluntary, but I 1504 01:13:10.359 --> 01:13:13.199 use the list when I decide where people are going 1505 01:13:13.279 --> 01:13:15.880 from provary school, like what units they're going to. So 1506 01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:18.359 the lawyers come to me and they said, you can't 1507 01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:22.039 do that. You know, you can't keep threaten number of value. 1508 01:13:22.079 --> 01:13:23.960 You're not going to get a company you want if 1509 01:13:23.960 --> 01:13:27.279 they don't join this voluntary program. But I kept doing 1510 01:13:27.319 --> 01:13:29.279 it anyway because I didn't try. 1511 01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:33.479 We'll put the thumb on them, you know what I meant. 1512 01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:35.439 Pressure great program, Great I got. I got a couple 1513 01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:37.520 of questions here. The guys set me here, so I'm 1514 01:13:37.520 --> 01:13:40.640 gonna just shoot them to you, all right. One of 1515 01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:43.199 these is have you ever spoken to any member of 1516 01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:47.039 the current executive staff or are you just speculating on 1517 01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:48.880 why Capital left the department. 1518 01:13:53.560 --> 01:13:57.399 Well, I've spoken to a couple of people. I don't 1519 01:13:57.399 --> 01:14:00.680 want to mention their names. But and I spoke in 1520 01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:04.039 the Kavanaugh and I don't believe that she left for 1521 01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:07.600 the reasons that she said she leaving. I think she 1522 01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:10.800 realized that this wasn't the job for her. They had 1523 01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:13.479 set her up, I think, with some really bad advice, 1524 01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:16.239 and besides that she did a lousy job. I had 1525 01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:18.720 offered to help her with a couple of things with 1526 01:14:19.319 --> 01:14:21.199 I don't know if you guys ever heard of Peter Onell, 1527 01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:24.520 but he's a genius in brand marketing and stuff. When 1528 01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:26.920 I was commissionedly helped me with candle fires. We had 1529 01:14:26.960 --> 01:14:33.039 a program, and we had a program throughout the city 1530 01:14:33.079 --> 01:14:34.840 with billboards and everything else, and we were able to 1531 01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:37.880 make a big difference in the candle fires immediately. Now, 1532 01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:40.720 candle fires were a lot simpler problem, I think than 1533 01:14:41.119 --> 01:14:43.960 lithium batteries. But I offered to help her with Peter 1534 01:14:44.079 --> 01:14:47.119 Onell back, Oh, she's over a year ago. And then 1535 01:14:47.479 --> 01:14:50.159 Peter Onell gets me on a phone call one night 1536 01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:53.960 and he's got snoop dogged on it, and I said what, 1537 01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:56.920 I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe the guy's unbelievable. 1538 01:14:57.199 --> 01:14:59.800 And then we get somebody I want to mention her name, 1539 01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:05.159 and we're offering to do help them with minority recruiting 1540 01:15:05.199 --> 01:15:08.239 for the firefighters exam and Snoop Dogg wants to do it, 1541 01:15:08.319 --> 01:15:10.640 you know, pro bono is gonna help us and everything else. 1542 01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:14.880 We told him about that and he never even followed up. Guys, 1543 01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:16.880 I think he just they paid him a million dollars 1544 01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:19.720 to do the Olympics, but we were like too backward 1545 01:15:20.079 --> 01:15:23.560 to even think of using him for minority recruiting in 1546 01:15:23.600 --> 01:15:26.840 the fight, Bob. So I think she just did not 1547 01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:30.159 listen to anybody. I think she got stand bagged, you 1548 01:15:30.199 --> 01:15:32.840 know with some of those meetings that she had early 1549 01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:34.880 on when they were taping and all the other stuff. 1550 01:15:35.279 --> 01:15:38.079 But I do think that she was the wrong person 1551 01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:39.680 for the job, did a lousy job. 1552 01:15:40.159 --> 01:15:43.840 Right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna just throw this out there, 1553 01:15:44.039 --> 01:15:48.880 and just for perspective. So when she got in there, 1554 01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:52.520 there was obviously thought she was doing a lousy job. 1555 01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:54.880 So obviously you think that the chiefs thought she was 1556 01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:57.239 doing a lousy job. Is that is that a correct statement? 1557 01:15:58.319 --> 01:16:00.159 Well, the chiefs are supposed to help her do a 1558 01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:02.560 good job, right, Well. 1559 01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:04.640 A lot of them took a lot of them took 1560 01:16:04.720 --> 01:16:08.199 demotions because they didn't think she was she was doing 1561 01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:13.279 the right job, right. That is that is that if 1562 01:16:14.399 --> 01:16:15.079 you like I'm. 1563 01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:22.159 One of the chiefs actually took a demotion because he 1564 01:16:22.239 --> 01:16:25.039 couldn't stand the job she was doing and he went 1565 01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:27.319 back and you know, gave it up for the regiment, 1566 01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:29.680 then knock yourself out. 1567 01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:32.960 You know. Well, I know a couple of guys that 1568 01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:35.520 some of them are really good guys, but good. What 1569 01:16:35.560 --> 01:16:41.279 I'm going to say to you is you had some 1570 01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:46.359 chiefs that are outstanding, right, I mean yeah, and they 1571 01:16:46.439 --> 01:16:51.640 never took a demotion because you were the commissioner of 1572 01:16:51.680 --> 01:16:52.640 the job. Correct. 1573 01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:55.640 Well, I mean I had a couple of chiefs. Frank 1574 01:16:55.640 --> 01:16:59.159 Polini was one of them, phenomenal chief. Phenomenal chiefs. Pete 1575 01:16:59.159 --> 01:17:02.720 Hayden was another, really good chief, good fire officers. They 1576 01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:06.960 did not want to take on the brotherhood, you know, 1577 01:17:07.039 --> 01:17:09.840 the the inefficiencies and all the stuff. So they just 1578 01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:11.560 wanted to stay in the field. That's what they did. 1579 01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:13.600 So I totally respect that. 1580 01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:15.439 I was gonna say, there ain't nothing wrong with that. 1581 01:17:15.479 --> 01:17:15.640 Man. 1582 01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:19.800 If you realize that absolutely. 1583 01:17:20.319 --> 01:17:23.600 Put yeah, will buy on the sword for the guys. 1584 01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:28.079 I mean that, Yeah, absolutely as a whole. What I'm 1585 01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:31.960 saying to you, you had Guancy. You had Guancy. I 1586 01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:34.479 mean you had all those chiefs who never said, hey, 1587 01:17:34.520 --> 01:17:37.000 I don't want to work with this guy, right right, 1588 01:17:37.319 --> 01:17:40.960 But she had a bunch of chiefs who said, I 1589 01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:43.960 can't do this. I mean, she's she's not doing a 1590 01:17:43.960 --> 01:17:46.680 good job. Right. So I'm trying to draw the contrast 1591 01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:49.399 between the job that she was doing the job that 1592 01:17:49.479 --> 01:17:53.920 you were doing. Because guys that we respect, like you know, Guancy, 1593 01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:56.920 had no problem working with you. Correctly. 1594 01:17:57.880 --> 01:18:07.720 Yeah, I'm different. Never, never in a million years put 1595 01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:09.800 up with the ship that she put up with. Not 1596 01:18:09.920 --> 01:18:12.039 in a million years. And if you don't want to 1597 01:18:12.039 --> 01:18:13.960 work for me, that's fine. I would be glad. Like 1598 01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:15.680 I said, I was really glad to get rid of 1599 01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:16.520 a lot of those guys. 1600 01:18:17.159 --> 01:18:19.479 Well, it's something to be said about that having balls, right, 1601 01:18:19.520 --> 01:18:21.640 you respect people in a position like that. You don't 1602 01:18:21.640 --> 01:18:22.880 want to have wishy washy ship. 1603 01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:26.720 Absolutely, you need you need people around you. I wanted 1604 01:18:26.760 --> 01:18:29.239 people to tell me how the really felt. And when 1605 01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:31.079 Felini came in my office to day, he said, you know, 1606 01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:32.920 he said, I don't want to do this. I don't 1607 01:18:32.920 --> 01:18:34.960 want I said great. And I remember him as a 1608 01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:38.079 fire officer and a bron terrific, terrific, you know. And 1609 01:18:38.119 --> 01:18:40.560 there were guys that that didn't like some stuff. I 1610 01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:43.239 remember one of the one of the assistant chiefs one time, 1611 01:18:43.279 --> 01:18:44.920 won't mention his name is. He was a great guy. 1612 01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:46.960 He goes down in the field. He comes back to 1613 01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:48.960 me one day and he said, boy, they're mad at 1614 01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:52.000 you out there. And I and I thought to myself, 1615 01:18:52.199 --> 01:18:54.800 they made at me. They're not made at us. 1616 01:18:55.239 --> 01:18:55.800 You know what I mean? 1617 01:18:56.239 --> 01:19:00.359 Are you you know you're you're on this. I mean, man, 1618 01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:04.520 I'm taking trapped here, taking game. You're on the team, 1619 01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:06.880 you're you're and but they made it me. And I 1620 01:19:06.920 --> 01:19:10.239 thought to myself, Okay, here's a real loyal soldier. 1621 01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:12.079 I'm taking grenades here. 1622 01:19:12.119 --> 01:19:12.279 Man. 1623 01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:15.920 Yeah. So I mean disagree, you can disagree, but you 1624 01:19:16.039 --> 01:19:17.920 want to. I mean, I think there's a lot that 1625 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.359 The first of all, I never heard the unions complain 1626 01:19:20.399 --> 01:19:23.560 about huh. And they usually the first one to complain. 1627 01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:26.760 So from what I can, from what I can you know, 1628 01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:30.399 put together, the unions thought she was she was doing 1629 01:19:30.439 --> 01:19:33.760 deals and everything with them, and she was okay, if 1630 01:19:33.800 --> 01:19:35.800 you guys know otherwise, I don't know. 1631 01:19:35.880 --> 01:19:37.000 I don't I don't know much. 1632 01:19:37.359 --> 01:19:40.319 I only heard good stuff. Not They didn't go around 1633 01:19:40.399 --> 01:19:42.319 and they're not going to go around saying everybody are 1634 01:19:42.319 --> 01:19:44.760 great she is and then they'll never do that. But 1635 01:19:44.840 --> 01:19:48.279 I didn't hear them knocking her Brosie or Ansbrono's guys. 1636 01:19:48.279 --> 01:19:50.479 So I don't want to speak for them, but ask them, 1637 01:19:50.680 --> 01:19:53.079 you know. So if they thought she was decent, why 1638 01:19:53.079 --> 01:19:55.479 couldn't these guys jump on and support her? You know 1639 01:19:55.520 --> 01:19:57.880 what I mean? Come on, guys, you know you can 1640 01:19:57.960 --> 01:20:00.800 make a difference out there. You have the ear of 1641 01:20:00.840 --> 01:20:03.399 the troops and stuff. So, and I think she just 1642 01:20:03.439 --> 01:20:06.239 wanted She had complaints that it was the same old 1643 01:20:06.279 --> 01:20:09.319 stuff with them, that they weren't looking to make any 1644 01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:13.079 change and everything. She she told me a few scenarios, and 1645 01:20:13.079 --> 01:20:16.279 I dond, oh my god, nothing's changed. But but you 1646 01:20:16.359 --> 01:20:18.560 have to Yeah, we can disagree on that. 1647 01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:22.239 On them, all right, we can. I want to throw 1648 01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:24.199 out a couple of things that some guys sent to me, 1649 01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:29.840 some emails, because a lot of guys, as many negative 1650 01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:33.760 emails I got, I got a lot of positives. So 1651 01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:38.359 let me see, Yeah, let me try to start training 1652 01:20:38.399 --> 01:20:43.359 begins at for Totten new squads eighteen sixty one two eight. 1653 01:20:43.359 --> 01:20:47.600 Purchased lighter Scott cylinders for the brothers. Created a lot 1654 01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:50.079 of one thirty three first new company in ten years, 1655 01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:55.520 created Soccer Italian. Purchased individual face piece. Uh May, Julie. 1656 01:20:55.560 --> 01:20:57.800 That was a big thing, man, Yeah, that was a 1657 01:20:57.840 --> 01:20:58.800 big freaking thing. 1658 01:20:58.920 --> 01:20:59.119 Man. 1659 01:20:59.600 --> 01:21:01.479 You know that might not seem like a big thing 1660 01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:04.520 when I remember getting on the job and putting that 1661 01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:07.199 face piece on for the first time. Didn't fit, no, 1662 01:21:07.239 --> 01:21:10.840 but it was like scratched up. You couldn't even see dude. 1663 01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:12.640 Look at his face. Yet they used to call me egghead. Right, 1664 01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:15.199 No face piece fit me until I got my own 1665 01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:17.439 personal face piece. Yeah, I forgot. 1666 01:21:17.479 --> 01:21:20.359 I forgot about that. That was like I say, money 1667 01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:23.199 was never the object. You know. We always tried to 1668 01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:25.600 like come to me with stuff, come to me with stuff, 1669 01:21:25.680 --> 01:21:27.960 and you know, talk about Okay, you want me to, 1670 01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:28.720 can I say something? 1671 01:21:28.840 --> 01:21:29.680 You got another question? 1672 01:21:31.439 --> 01:21:34.479 So I'm thinking about Downey, right down He's a perfect example. 1673 01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:36.800 So I'm in the Union and all I hear these 1674 01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:39.720 guys complaining about Downey and they're telling me like he's 1675 01:21:39.760 --> 01:21:43.520 got horrible These guys from Rescue too, they come, they 1676 01:21:43.520 --> 01:21:47.000 take the line away from us, and they do this, 1677 01:21:47.079 --> 01:21:49.680 and they do that, bottles off. So now I'm in 1678 01:21:49.720 --> 01:21:51.760 the Union. I'm in the Union. So of course you 1679 01:21:51.800 --> 01:21:55.279 know this is bad. So I become commissioner. And so 1680 01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:58.439 I said to Fie and I said, you know, this downy, 1681 01:21:58.520 --> 01:22:00.600 I don't know, I don't know who he thinks he is, 1682 01:22:00.640 --> 01:22:03.840 Like he's running a department or you know, just running 1683 01:22:03.880 --> 01:22:06.760 soccer or whatever. So we go out to sock to uh. 1684 01:22:06.880 --> 01:22:09.399 So he makes the presentation to us right when he 1685 01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:11.640 was finished, and I said, to the end, we got 1686 01:22:11.640 --> 01:22:15.399 to get more guys like this guy. This is this 1687 01:22:16.640 --> 01:22:20.239 is my achieve I want. The guy was making deals. 1688 01:22:20.479 --> 01:22:22.760 He's he's doing stuff for the guys that rescue that 1689 01:22:22.880 --> 01:22:25.199 the fight upon wasn't doing. Where did every where did 1690 01:22:25.239 --> 01:22:27.319 the rescue guys all get these cameras from? I said, 1691 01:22:27.319 --> 01:22:29.439 what where'd they get these cameras? Where'd they get the 1692 01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:31.560 where they get the money for it? He was making 1693 01:22:31.600 --> 01:22:34.000 his own deals, he was making his own he was 1694 01:22:34.479 --> 01:22:36.479 a one man band. He could have had his own 1695 01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:39.439 fight apartment. It was phenomenal. So I said, and that's 1696 01:22:39.439 --> 01:22:41.319 when we decided to do the square. Let's give this 1697 01:22:41.359 --> 01:22:43.600 guy more guys. You know what I mean, Let's not 1698 01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:46.000 make them small, let's make them bigger. But you know, 1699 01:22:46.079 --> 01:22:48.119 I mean I also had a You also had to 1700 01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:50.359 rain him in it a little bit too, because I 1701 01:22:50.359 --> 01:22:54.439 mean he would he he was a leader, There's no 1702 01:22:54.520 --> 01:22:55.159 question about that. 1703 01:22:55.239 --> 01:22:57.239 And when I think of in the pre show, you 1704 01:22:57.279 --> 01:22:59.920 look like Walter Cronkite, Eddie Rooney. 1705 01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:01.079 Yeah, I mean. 1706 01:23:02.560 --> 01:23:05.239 I remember him. Boy. He remember in the day of 1707 01:23:05.239 --> 01:23:07.720 September eleventhies walking by me and he say, boss, you 1708 01:23:07.760 --> 01:23:08.800 know these buildings can. 1709 01:23:08.720 --> 01:23:10.319 Come down, just like that. 1710 01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:14.560 I was like, wow, you know you only I wasn't 1711 01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:17.760 thinking like that up that point. And but I knew 1712 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:19.840 when he looked at me, you know, with a good 1713 01:23:19.840 --> 01:23:23.159 looking guy or those eyes and stuff. And he didn't 1714 01:23:23.399 --> 01:23:25.760 he didn't say, Tommy, get the f out of here. 1715 01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:28.159 You know, these buildings are coming down. It wasn't like that. 1716 01:23:28.880 --> 01:23:31.880 I never believed that he thought in one hundred and 1717 01:23:31.880 --> 01:23:34.119 two minutes from beginning to end, both those buildings are 1718 01:23:34.159 --> 01:23:35.720 going to come down. And we had some of the 1719 01:23:35.720 --> 01:23:37.960 best chiefs. You talk about chiefs and talking about my 1720 01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:41.960 problems with the chiefs, but I mean you had Callen 1721 01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:44.239 in that lobby, had Hayden in the lobby, you had 1722 01:23:45.079 --> 01:23:48.680 the Burns in the other lobby. So many guancy out 1723 01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:51.560 in the street. You had so many good guys, so 1724 01:23:51.640 --> 01:23:55.079 many good chiefs. And I remember speaking in India one 1725 01:23:55.119 --> 01:23:58.680 time for Honeywell, and some guy says to me, you 1726 01:23:58.720 --> 01:24:01.800 should have known the those buildings are gonna gonna come down. 1727 01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:06.000 You know, he's like a little engineer type. My first 1728 01:24:06.039 --> 01:24:07.800 reaction was I wanted to go back in the room 1729 01:24:07.840 --> 01:24:11.159 and bang his head on the frigging concrete floor. I 1730 01:24:11.239 --> 01:24:13.800 controlled myself, you know, and I said, you know, like 1731 01:24:14.039 --> 01:24:17.079 I said, you're in a frigging in a room with 1732 01:24:17.159 --> 01:24:17.720 a computer. 1733 01:24:18.199 --> 01:24:19.199 I said, these guys are. 1734 01:24:19.119 --> 01:24:21.520 In a lobby. We didn't We didn't know anything that 1735 01:24:21.600 --> 01:24:24.840 was going on. We had no clue. Everybody knew much 1736 01:24:24.880 --> 01:24:27.560 more than us, the guys in the lobby. Nobody in 1737 01:24:27.840 --> 01:24:30.840 we didn't know anything. What we knew was this is 1738 01:24:31.079 --> 01:24:33.600 this is bad. That's all we knew. A. Hayden and 1739 01:24:33.680 --> 01:24:35.920 Kalan Kalen was trying to get everybody out of there 1740 01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:36.720 from the beginning. 1741 01:24:37.159 --> 01:24:37.359 You know. 1742 01:24:37.399 --> 01:24:39.239 It just we had so many guys that got so 1743 01:24:39.359 --> 01:24:41.720 far up it just took them so long to get down. 1744 01:24:41.760 --> 01:24:44.119 We just couldn't do it fast enough, you know. But 1745 01:24:44.920 --> 01:24:47.960 when it comes to like stuff like that, these chiefs 1746 01:24:47.960 --> 01:24:50.560 are great, you know, so many really terrific guys, but 1747 01:24:51.199 --> 01:24:53.479 you know, you want to run physic uh, you know, 1748 01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:56.840 fitness that the training, it's probably not the right guys. 1749 01:24:57.159 --> 01:24:58.920 What was he like? What was Bush like? 1750 01:24:59.720 --> 01:25:03.640 You know Bush that day? And I saw him a 1751 01:25:03.680 --> 01:25:06.720 bunch of times after that too. He was you know, 1752 01:25:06.720 --> 01:25:09.640 I always thought it later on, maybe a lot of mistakes, 1753 01:25:09.640 --> 01:25:12.560 you know, going at Iraq and Afghanistan all that stuff, 1754 01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:15.880 But as far as feeling for our guys, I had 1755 01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:18.560 seen him like two years before that, he came to 1756 01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:22.840 one of our memorial ceremonies up in the Central Park 1757 01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:27.279 and not Central Park, Riverside, and he was phenomenal and 1758 01:25:27.319 --> 01:25:29.239 you could see it, like I had to pull him away. 1759 01:25:29.560 --> 01:25:31.520 The Secret Service guy says to me, a boss, can 1760 01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:33.079 you get my guy out of here? You know, it 1761 01:25:33.159 --> 01:25:34.920 was I think he was one of running for president. 1762 01:25:35.039 --> 01:25:39.000 I was, and I was in the Union, and he 1763 01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:42.319 was just so legit, you know, like he cared so 1764 01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:47.319 much about our guys and about everybody there. I just 1765 01:25:47.359 --> 01:25:51.159 found him to be totally sincere and totally upfront, honest, guy. 1766 01:25:51.159 --> 01:25:53.000 I always thought, this is a regular guy. I felt 1767 01:25:53.039 --> 01:25:54.520 like he was. He was like me. I didn't think 1768 01:25:54.560 --> 01:25:57.199 he was the smartest guy in the world, but he 1769 01:25:57.680 --> 01:26:01.880 certainly was. He certainly cared, you know, and and and 1770 01:26:01.880 --> 01:26:04.880 and you could feel it. You can feel the compassion 1771 01:26:05.680 --> 01:26:07.600 when them, you know. I don't know if you guys 1772 01:26:07.640 --> 01:26:09.760 heard that story. When I was in the call with him, 1773 01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:12.199 I said, we'll meet you over with the thing, and 1774 01:26:12.239 --> 01:26:14.039 he said, no, why don't you right with right with us? 1775 01:26:14.079 --> 01:26:14.279 You know. 1776 01:26:14.359 --> 01:26:15.640 So I get in the call with him and he 1777 01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:18.239 looks at me and he says, commission, you look beat. 1778 01:26:18.359 --> 01:26:21.039 He said, you're getting any rest? I said, well, my 1779 01:26:21.079 --> 01:26:23.079 wife came home last night. I got lucky, so I'm 1780 01:26:23.119 --> 01:26:29.039 feeling better. Yeah, he did. 1781 01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:30.199 He looks to me. 1782 01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:31.359 So now. 1783 01:26:32.920 --> 01:26:38.560 I thought attacking shoot his pants. But Julianne knew me. 1784 01:26:38.680 --> 01:26:41.520 Gulianne knew I was crazy. So he's just shaking his head, 1785 01:26:41.560 --> 01:26:44.720 you know. And so the president says, you're the only 1786 01:26:44.760 --> 01:26:48.760 guy in this car. I got lucky last night. So 1787 01:26:48.760 --> 01:26:51.479 so then a couple of weeks later, I go to, uh, 1788 01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:52.680 what's it sink? 1789 01:26:52.720 --> 01:26:52.920 Want? 1790 01:26:53.159 --> 01:26:54.199 Was it fourteen engines? 1791 01:26:54.199 --> 01:26:54.960 Some? Uh? 1792 01:26:56.680 --> 01:26:59.399 What call it forty four? Well, anyway, the engine that's 1793 01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:02.359 a single engine. And so he's he's there, he's having 1794 01:27:02.720 --> 01:27:04.680 pizza with the guys. So I was there late. I 1795 01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:06.600 got there late. I walk in and one of the 1796 01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:09.520 guys says, sit over here, Boston, and the President said, no, 1797 01:27:09.560 --> 01:27:11.439 come over here, committ He grabs a chair, he puts 1798 01:27:11.439 --> 01:27:13.680 it next to him. He says, how are things at home? 1799 01:27:15.760 --> 01:27:22.600 I mean that kind of guy, the check fifty, he 1800 01:27:22.640 --> 01:27:25.760 could make it in the firehouse. You know, he was 1801 01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:28.880 that kind of guy. You know, he you could see him, uh, 1802 01:27:29.199 --> 01:27:32.439 you know, dealing with the craziness of that we deal 1803 01:27:32.479 --> 01:27:34.680 with and the and the people are the heroes, and 1804 01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:35.840 I know he. 1805 01:27:35.880 --> 01:27:37.880 Could had to be the following year. It had to 1806 01:27:37.880 --> 01:27:41.560 be the following year. I did h whatever. It was 1807 01:27:41.640 --> 01:27:44.399 something at the U N right, they had. I ended 1808 01:27:44.479 --> 01:27:46.359 up going with one of the deputy chiefs, a friend 1809 01:27:46.359 --> 01:27:48.560 of mine, and we were in like the main area. 1810 01:27:48.640 --> 01:27:51.079 So there was two firemen, two fire department guys, two 1811 01:27:51.119 --> 01:27:54.000 secret service too, cops the issue all you know, swat guys. 1812 01:27:54.039 --> 01:27:57.600 Everybody's in this central hub right and all the you know, 1813 01:27:57.600 --> 01:27:59.560 you see all the limousines coming in and you know, 1814 01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:01.920 people from you know, presidents and whatever from all around 1815 01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:04.359 the of the world, and all of a sudden, somebody 1816 01:28:04.399 --> 01:28:08.199 says President Bush is here. So everybody gets up and 1817 01:28:08.239 --> 01:28:10.520 we kind of all, you know, just come outside the room. 1818 01:28:10.520 --> 01:28:13.239 And you know, they had the rope there and everybody 1819 01:28:13.279 --> 01:28:14.840 was kind of lined up waiting for him to come in. 1820 01:28:14.920 --> 01:28:19.439 And he's like walking in and everybody starts going, you know, hey, 1821 01:28:19.640 --> 01:28:23.760 what's up us USA? Whatever. He looks There had to 1822 01:28:23.800 --> 01:28:26.600 be fifty people he and I was in my class 1823 01:28:26.600 --> 01:28:30.239 as he looked right in my face, he was walking 1824 01:28:30.319 --> 01:28:35.079 like this, he went like this. He came right over 1825 01:28:35.199 --> 01:28:37.920 to me and shook my hand and he says, you 1826 01:28:37.960 --> 01:28:39.840 know whatever, thank you for your service or something. I'm like, 1827 01:28:39.920 --> 01:28:42.800 holy shit, man, like the freaking president. Man, awesome. 1828 01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:44.800 You know, I went he saw you on the bill 1829 01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:45.840 He saw you on the billboard. 1830 01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:48.159 I think he said. 1831 01:28:48.920 --> 01:28:51.319 I had a call from the Secret Service right after 1832 01:28:51.359 --> 01:28:54.279 that that like, uh, yeah, we want you to come 1833 01:28:54.279 --> 01:28:57.640 to the Catholic Charities. President Bush is gonna be there 1834 01:28:57.680 --> 01:29:00.600 with his wife. We're gonna have dinner. I'm like, all right, like, 1835 01:29:00.600 --> 01:29:02.640 what's your show security number? What do you asked me 1836 01:29:02.680 --> 01:29:05.720 fifty questions. I went there and we had dinner with 1837 01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:08.279 there was probably about fifty guys from the Union. I 1838 01:29:08.279 --> 01:29:10.000 think it was from the Union because I was a delegate, 1839 01:29:10.720 --> 01:29:14.560 and uh, I love his wife. She was the bomb bro. 1840 01:29:14.760 --> 01:29:15.680 She was awesome. 1841 01:29:16.199 --> 01:29:16.800 Yeah, he was. 1842 01:29:16.880 --> 01:29:19.359 He was a cool dude too, Like he sat down. 1843 01:29:19.439 --> 01:29:21.000 I got a picture. I don't know what were looking 1844 01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:23.960 for it now. I got a picture with him. His wife. 1845 01:29:24.039 --> 01:29:25.560 They were just real people, you know. 1846 01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:28.760 Yeah, she was. She came to a lot of the 1847 01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:32.880 firehouses with me and her and Libby Pataki also really 1848 01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:37.439 nice ladies. Really you could feel like they weren't phonies, 1849 01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:39.880 you know, they really you could see it. They can't, 1850 01:29:39.920 --> 01:29:41.159 you know, they really can't. 1851 01:29:42.039 --> 01:29:45.520 Let me finished, Let me finish these hold lot of 1852 01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:48.800 a minute, let me find it right here, right here. Second. 1853 01:29:50.079 --> 01:29:54.439 I like the library that tom Yeah. 1854 01:29:54.319 --> 01:29:57.680 Yeah, keep slipping down here in front of it. I 1855 01:29:57.760 --> 01:30:00.000 actually read. I actually read one of those books. 1856 01:30:00.279 --> 01:30:02.119 There we go, What do you do? 1857 01:30:03.159 --> 01:30:03.479 All right? 1858 01:30:03.560 --> 01:30:06.600 May and Giuliani funded a forty four million dollar renovation 1859 01:30:06.680 --> 01:30:09.439 of the Fire Academy of Randalls Island, including a car 1860 01:30:09.520 --> 01:30:12.239 simulation and a burn building, turn the Academy into the 1861 01:30:12.239 --> 01:30:16.079 premiere fire training facility in the country. FDI provided a 1862 01:30:16.079 --> 01:30:19.319 faster relief and a health support for units fire scenes 1863 01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:22.880 to reduce the stress at the fire scenes. There's another one. 1864 01:30:23.760 --> 01:30:27.359 Uh Juliani secured purchase of the thermal imaging cameras. 1865 01:30:27.439 --> 01:30:29.439 Wait, wait, wait, let me give you one thing. Let 1866 01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:33.079 me get one story on the training academy. Okay, so 1867 01:30:33.319 --> 01:30:35.800 we go through all kinds of hoops and we get 1868 01:30:35.840 --> 01:30:39.520 for Totten, which Tommy Fitzpatrick and some of the guys, 1869 01:30:39.520 --> 01:30:41.279 I don't know how they did it from the federal government. 1870 01:30:41.319 --> 01:30:43.880 It was I don't know. I don't remember all the details, 1871 01:30:43.880 --> 01:30:45.520 but it was a nightmare trying to get it. So 1872 01:30:45.560 --> 01:30:49.000 we're gonna move our training academy to Fort Totten. So 1873 01:30:49.319 --> 01:30:51.960 the mayor is gonna support it. We're gonna give us 1874 01:30:51.960 --> 01:30:54.000 all the money for it and everything. We're gonna get 1875 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.640 a brand new training academy at four time. So now 1876 01:30:56.640 --> 01:30:58.920 we sit down and we actually say, okay, what are 1877 01:30:58.920 --> 01:31:00.520 we gonna do a four ton And then they find 1878 01:31:00.520 --> 01:31:02.600 out we can't do this, you can't burn, you can't 1879 01:31:02.640 --> 01:31:04.880 do this because it's like a lot of rich people 1880 01:31:04.880 --> 01:31:06.600 live over there and they don't want anything to do 1881 01:31:06.680 --> 01:31:09.520 with characters like us. The federal government owns this, so 1882 01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:12.000 you're gonna deal with derbureaucracy and all these other things. 1883 01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:15.039 So I go back to Juliani and I said, I 1884 01:31:15.159 --> 01:31:17.560 changed my mind. I don't want for Totten. He said, 1885 01:31:18.119 --> 01:31:21.399 what are you nuts? And this is the relationship that 1886 01:31:21.439 --> 01:31:23.359 we had. You know, I still love the guy today 1887 01:31:23.520 --> 01:31:26.399 with all the ship that he's been through. I still 1888 01:31:26.960 --> 01:31:29.279 I can't believe it what he's gone through. But anyway, 1889 01:31:29.520 --> 01:31:31.920 at that time, so he says, you know, what, are 1890 01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:34.600 you crazy? We just went through all the sud I said, Boss, 1891 01:31:34.680 --> 01:31:37.960 it ain't gonna work there. I said, you gotta let 1892 01:31:38.000 --> 01:31:41.279 me rebuild a new academy at at Randall's Island. I said, 1893 01:31:41.279 --> 01:31:43.600 this is the place for us. You know, it's it's 1894 01:31:43.640 --> 01:31:47.439 already said. It's next to the waste water place. Here. 1895 01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:51.760 We can do whatever ship we want at Randall's Island. 1896 01:31:51.760 --> 01:31:55.239 Nobody's going to say anything. So he says yes, And 1897 01:31:55.279 --> 01:31:57.359 then we decided we got to get a shovel in 1898 01:31:57.399 --> 01:32:00.600 the ground right away because we're running out of time. 1899 01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:03.439 If you if when you're in the city like that, 1900 01:32:03.600 --> 01:32:05.880 or I think feds are probably just as bad. If 1901 01:32:05.880 --> 01:32:08.760 you don't get a project started, the new guy comes 1902 01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:11.079 in and it ain't gonna happen, you know, what I mean. 1903 01:32:11.399 --> 01:32:15.800 So we start in December of two thousand and in 1904 01:32:15.880 --> 01:32:18.039 two thousand. December of two thousand, we put a shovel 1905 01:32:18.079 --> 01:32:20.239 in the ground and he gave us fifty million. I 1906 01:32:20.279 --> 01:32:22.479 think they did it for forty four and it was 1907 01:32:22.760 --> 01:32:29.399 it's a phenomenal Uh. Great, and we still have four time. 1908 01:32:29.600 --> 01:32:31.239 I still don't know what the hell they're doing out there. 1909 01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:32.159 Looks like an ambulance. 1910 01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:33.880 Yeah, it's a little weird. 1911 01:32:34.199 --> 01:32:38.880 Talk about the buildings. That's a great example of inefficiency 1912 01:32:39.000 --> 01:32:41.560 four times and getting it pretty. They gave everybody a 1913 01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:42.479 little house to hang out. 1914 01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:45.159 Yeah, little house scuba. 1915 01:32:46.119 --> 01:32:49.199 Let me finish with the rest that got secured the 1916 01:32:49.279 --> 01:32:52.359 purchase of thermal imaging cameras for the FDNY given a 1917 01:32:52.479 --> 01:32:55.079 fight as disability to see the fires beyond the walls 1918 01:32:55.600 --> 01:32:56.800 and locate victims. 1919 01:32:57.199 --> 01:33:01.680 Uh thought it would ray downey and then we just 1920 01:33:01.760 --> 01:33:03.079 expanded it to everybody. 1921 01:33:03.319 --> 01:33:05.279 Yeah, that was a game changer. You know what the 1922 01:33:05.279 --> 01:33:09.800 best plot was, Tom, You know what the best plot was, 1923 01:33:10.640 --> 01:33:18.920 My wife made that sale to the FDM. I like apples. 1924 01:33:19.359 --> 01:33:22.840 You like apples, like the apples sounds to me like 1925 01:33:22.880 --> 01:33:24.680 you have a conflict of interest doing. 1926 01:33:31.800 --> 01:33:32.119 All right. 1927 01:33:32.720 --> 01:33:33.760 One of the questions you got. 1928 01:33:34.159 --> 01:33:36.880 I got one one, and I asked him before that 1929 01:33:36.920 --> 01:33:39.039 if you wanted to talk about it. I actually wanted 1930 01:33:39.039 --> 01:33:40.199 to make it the word of the day, but he 1931 01:33:40.239 --> 01:33:43.439 said that's no good. So, uh, you know what I have, 1932 01:33:45.840 --> 01:33:49.039 all right, so the suck it up? Okay, all right? 1933 01:33:49.960 --> 01:33:51.760 How did that? When did that come about? I remember 1934 01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:53.399 it as a fireman, but I don't really remember too 1935 01:33:53.479 --> 01:33:53.920 much about it. 1936 01:33:54.279 --> 01:33:57.319 This is the perfect example of when people want to 1937 01:33:57.359 --> 01:34:00.800 take you down, how they can just you know, uh, 1938 01:34:01.119 --> 01:34:04.119 change shit around. So I go on David Lettiman. After 1939 01:34:04.159 --> 01:34:08.239 September eleventh, Juliani was like a control free in his administration. 1940 01:34:08.319 --> 01:34:11.119 He never wanted us to do press or anything after 1941 01:34:11.159 --> 01:34:14.119 September eleventh. He wanted us, everybody to do as much 1942 01:34:14.159 --> 01:34:17.119 as possible to get the worried out there. What a 1943 01:34:17.119 --> 01:34:19.600 great job all of our guys have done, how much 1944 01:34:19.640 --> 01:34:22.039 support we need, how much money we need to rebuild 1945 01:34:22.039 --> 01:34:24.840 the city, visit you know. He we just couldn't do 1946 01:34:24.960 --> 01:34:27.439 enough press. So they invite me to go on David 1947 01:34:27.479 --> 01:34:29.399 let Himan, And I go on David let Himan, you know, 1948 01:34:29.479 --> 01:34:32.279 and he's so he's saying to me, like, how do 1949 01:34:32.399 --> 01:34:34.520 you do it? You know, how do you go through 1950 01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:37.520 it all these funerals day after day after day. And 1951 01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:40.199 I said, well, you know what I mean, the guys 1952 01:34:40.319 --> 01:34:42.760 just have to they have to suck it up. And 1953 01:34:43.159 --> 01:34:46.000 it's all about the families. You know. We don't have 1954 01:34:46.079 --> 01:34:50.199 the luxury of, you know, worrying about ourselves at this point. 1955 01:34:50.520 --> 01:34:54.000 Everything we do is about the families, and we just 1956 01:34:54.039 --> 01:34:56.520 need to you know. And that suck it up. And 1957 01:34:56.560 --> 01:34:58.840 that turned around into you got kid me. 1958 01:34:58.960 --> 01:34:59.800 That's how that went. 1959 01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:02.760 You guys can get the tape from David let him 1960 01:35:02.760 --> 01:35:04.680 and that's exactly how it went. So then I had 1961 01:35:04.680 --> 01:35:07.399 been on sixty minutes and that guy and you mentioned before, 1962 01:35:07.399 --> 01:35:09.640 I think his name was Harry Resoner. He calls me 1963 01:35:09.760 --> 01:35:11.800 up and he says, what is all this stuff with 1964 01:35:11.880 --> 01:35:14.479 the suck it up? I saw what you said. He said, 1965 01:35:14.479 --> 01:35:16.840 there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I said, no, 1966 01:35:17.159 --> 01:35:21.000 but that's that's what happens when you know, Can I 1967 01:35:21.079 --> 01:35:21.960 read something. 1968 01:35:21.680 --> 01:35:24.239 To you guys, Yeah, absolutely. 1969 01:35:24.000 --> 01:35:26.039 Because I saw this. You know, I was trying to 1970 01:35:26.159 --> 01:35:27.239 prepare you believe. 1971 01:35:27.119 --> 01:35:29.560 That's that's that was like, that's like worse than what 1972 01:35:29.600 --> 01:35:31.760 they're taking out of context with Trump, for God's sake, 1973 01:35:31.920 --> 01:35:32.439 Like that's. 1974 01:35:32.319 --> 01:35:36.000 Exact, and I swear to you. I swear to you, guys, 1975 01:35:36.119 --> 01:35:38.319 that's exactly how I happened. But check it out if 1976 01:35:38.319 --> 01:35:41.680 you don't believe me. So I had done his chapter 1977 01:35:41.880 --> 01:35:44.920 for a book and some at some college, and it 1978 01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:46.920 was like how to fight upon the COPD. So I 1979 01:35:47.039 --> 01:35:49.000 was looking at it the other day and I saw this, 1980 01:35:49.159 --> 01:35:51.600 and I said, I I like the guys to see this. 1981 01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:56.039 So this is just on page sixteen. We mistakenly began 1982 01:35:56.199 --> 01:35:59.319 to deal with the deaths as as we always had 1983 01:35:59.720 --> 01:36:02.399 when our ceremonial unit met. During the first few days, 1984 01:36:02.479 --> 01:36:04.479 we were clear and the changes we would have to 1985 01:36:04.560 --> 01:36:07.840 implement because of the vast numbers, but felt that we 1986 01:36:07.880 --> 01:36:10.239 would somehow get it done. There was a few weeks 1987 01:36:10.279 --> 01:36:12.600 later that it really hit us. We brought in a 1988 01:36:12.720 --> 01:36:16.520 disaster assistance company. Kenyon was the name of it. I 1989 01:36:16.600 --> 01:36:18.920 wish we had called them the first day. They are 1990 01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:22.479 experts in the psychology of sudden public death. We learned 1991 01:36:22.560 --> 01:36:24.600 many things from them. These are some of the things 1992 01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:27.479 we learned. It would be two years before some families 1993 01:36:27.520 --> 01:36:30.640 would even begin the grieving process. We could write down 1994 01:36:30.680 --> 01:36:33.119 our own rules because it would be difficult to find 1995 01:36:33.199 --> 01:36:35.600 any and ask the truth. There was no you know, 1996 01:36:35.680 --> 01:36:39.279 there was no playbook. Nope, the families would organize. They 1997 01:36:39.319 --> 01:36:42.800 would demand investigations and information. They were a cry of 1998 01:36:42.920 --> 01:36:46.640 funding and get legislation. They would build memorials, some certainly 1999 01:36:46.680 --> 01:36:49.399 were not relevant for right now. But they also warned 2000 01:36:49.479 --> 01:36:52.359 us of being prepared for unbridled anger. They would be 2001 01:36:52.520 --> 01:36:56.119 terribly exacerbated by not recovering remains of their loved ones. 2002 01:36:56.720 --> 01:36:59.039 They would need an outlet for that anger. They would 2003 01:36:59.079 --> 01:37:02.119 come at us. We can only manage our reaction to it. 2004 01:37:02.560 --> 01:37:04.880 We would never be able to satisfy them because what 2005 01:37:05.000 --> 01:37:07.399 they wanted, the return of their loved ones, we could 2006 01:37:07.439 --> 01:37:10.199 never give them. And that's exactly what the guys from 2007 01:37:10.279 --> 01:37:14.039 this disaster management company came. And you know it was 2008 01:37:14.439 --> 01:37:16.920 it was something that I just I just realized, like 2009 01:37:17.039 --> 01:37:19.239 there was no matter what we did. I mean, we 2010 01:37:19.319 --> 01:37:21.479 gave them pensions, we put I was the first one 2011 01:37:21.560 --> 01:37:24.439 to promote somebody it was dead, you know, I put 2012 01:37:24.479 --> 01:37:27.640 them on even I even promoted somebody and I won't 2013 01:37:27.680 --> 01:37:30.399 mention who it was, who wasn't even on the list, 2014 01:37:30.920 --> 01:37:33.600 but we promoted them anyway. And then the tops and 2015 01:37:33.640 --> 01:37:36.760 everybody had been doing that ever since. But there was 2016 01:37:36.920 --> 01:37:39.720 nothing that we could do. The money, the pensions, that 2017 01:37:40.279 --> 01:37:44.520 there was nothing, and then it was worse. It wasn't 2018 01:37:44.600 --> 01:37:47.600 bad enough that you told missus so and so that 2019 01:37:48.239 --> 01:37:51.680 her husband is gone. It was it was even worse 2020 01:37:51.760 --> 01:37:54.800 because you told missus so and so her husband is gone, 2021 01:37:54.920 --> 01:37:57.560 but I don't know, I can't give you his remains. 2022 01:37:57.960 --> 01:38:00.960 So there was nothing worse than that there was nothing 2023 01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:03.359 we could do. And the guys from the union, you know, 2024 01:38:03.600 --> 01:38:05.600 some of them were stand up and some of them 2025 01:38:06.079 --> 01:38:08.760 supported us and everything, and as other guys just said, hey, 2026 01:38:08.840 --> 01:38:11.439 you know, they just it was much easier to just 2027 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:13.319 you know, let them blame us. 2028 01:38:13.479 --> 01:38:16.199 Then I remember there was a freaking bumper stick and 2029 01:38:16.279 --> 01:38:19.720 that said suck it up. Oh god, I still can't 2030 01:38:19.720 --> 01:38:20.239 get over there. 2031 01:38:20.319 --> 01:38:22.399 That we should make a T shirt that says suck 2032 01:38:22.479 --> 01:38:22.760 it up. 2033 01:38:23.159 --> 01:38:25.560 That's like so, I mean, that is like, what do 2034 01:38:25.640 --> 01:38:26.279 we have to give you? 2035 01:38:26.319 --> 01:38:27.399 What do we gotta give you that. 2036 01:38:28.960 --> 01:38:31.520 For that? It was totally it was terrible. 2037 01:38:32.239 --> 01:38:33.039 That's ridiculous. 2038 01:38:33.600 --> 01:38:37.159 And talk about you know management. If you remember, right 2039 01:38:37.239 --> 01:38:40.159 when they had that incident at thirty three and seventy. 2040 01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:43.920 Five, there was you know that's yeah, yeah, that thing right. 2041 01:38:44.319 --> 01:38:47.479 Anyway, anyway, that was just one of the one of 2042 01:38:47.560 --> 01:38:49.680 the hot hart things that had to deal with. 2043 01:38:50.720 --> 01:38:53.039 Let me let me bring something up to it up. 2044 01:38:53.319 --> 01:38:56.680 Hold on, yeah, yeah all I thought so in appreciate 2045 01:38:56.760 --> 01:38:59.279 you said that one of your things that you enjoyed 2046 01:38:59.640 --> 01:39:01.680 the most about the job was that you were able 2047 01:39:01.760 --> 01:39:05.800 to make those kind of decisions quote unquote you know 2048 01:39:06.039 --> 01:39:08.760 that weren't like by the book or whatever and make 2049 01:39:08.840 --> 01:39:10.000 things kind of go away, right. 2050 01:39:10.079 --> 01:39:13.880 I mean that you Roofi, good brother. 2051 01:39:15.319 --> 01:39:18.119 So I'm gonna bring this this and again there's a 2052 01:39:18.199 --> 01:39:21.119 lot of guys out there probably who made some poor 2053 01:39:21.239 --> 01:39:25.279 decisions and uh and uh you know made the call. 2054 01:39:25.399 --> 01:39:27.239 I wasn't going to bring this up, but I'm gonna 2055 01:39:27.239 --> 01:39:27.720 bring it up. 2056 01:39:27.880 --> 01:39:31.000 But everybody forget they suck it up right here was 2057 01:39:31.279 --> 01:39:32.239 this is what happens. 2058 01:39:32.279 --> 01:39:35.880 And I told uh, uh, mister van Essen here in 2059 01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:41.159 the pre show, I had gotten jammed up something. Here 2060 01:39:41.239 --> 01:39:43.079 we go, Here we go. I got jammed up. 2061 01:39:43.880 --> 01:39:45.880 I got look at him chuckling. 2062 01:39:45.960 --> 01:39:49.319 I got thrown in. I got thrown in jail, and 2063 01:39:49.680 --> 01:39:53.800 uh I did something stupid. Uh I got locked up. 2064 01:39:54.399 --> 01:39:57.079 And the lawyer for the union came and said to me, 2065 01:39:58.760 --> 01:40:01.159 you remember Clegman yeah, sure, sure right. 2066 01:40:01.840 --> 01:40:05.159 He was the criminal guy he was. You must have 2067 01:40:05.239 --> 01:40:05.920 really done something. 2068 01:40:05.920 --> 01:40:11.760 It was crazy, he says to me. He says to me, listen, 2069 01:40:12.159 --> 01:40:14.079 mister cool, this is what's gonna happen. You're gonna go 2070 01:40:14.119 --> 01:40:18.119 on the department order. You're gonna you're gonna lose your vacation, 2071 01:40:18.600 --> 01:40:21.000 you're gonna get a rip, and you probably you might 2072 01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:24.359 lose your job. I'm like, all right, good talk. So 2073 01:40:24.520 --> 01:40:27.359 I go to my captain, Captain Dennis Murphy, and I 2074 01:40:27.439 --> 01:40:31.199 tell him what happened, and he calls von Essen and 2075 01:40:31.760 --> 01:40:34.039 von Essen said one thing to him, is he a 2076 01:40:34.119 --> 01:40:38.119 good guy? Is he worth saving? And Kat Murphy said absolutely. 2077 01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:41.479 And I never heard another word about it in my life. Bro. 2078 01:40:42.079 --> 01:40:45.800 And what I want to say is, that's not the 2079 01:40:45.880 --> 01:40:48.640 first guy that I've heard. I talked to Hank Mullay. 2080 01:40:48.880 --> 01:40:52.479 I talked to Hank Mullay, I talked to Paul harsh Hagen, 2081 01:40:52.640 --> 01:40:55.760 and they brought guys to the same thing. Uh. And 2082 01:40:56.680 --> 01:40:59.159 when I got on the show, Tom didn't even know 2083 01:40:59.239 --> 01:41:00.920 who I was. He doesn't know who I am from 2084 01:41:00.960 --> 01:41:02.439 a hole in the wall. But I said to him, 2085 01:41:04.000 --> 01:41:06.279 not only did he save my job, he created the 2086 01:41:06.319 --> 01:41:09.760 squads in which I went to the squads and then 2087 01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:12.960 my wife was selling from MSA the cameras and whatever 2088 01:41:13.039 --> 01:41:14.920 that has been. I met her in the firehouse, so 2089 01:41:14.920 --> 01:41:17.079 I had not I saved my job, went to the 2090 01:41:17.159 --> 01:41:20.720 squads that he created and was working in the day 2091 01:41:20.760 --> 01:41:24.000 that my wife would. The man changed my life single handedly, 2092 01:41:24.279 --> 01:41:28.039 and that's something that I hear was not something that 2093 01:41:28.359 --> 01:41:31.479 was irregular to him, that he saved a lot of 2094 01:41:31.560 --> 01:41:34.479 guys shops. So I wasn't going to bring this up 2095 01:41:34.479 --> 01:41:36.359 because I don't like to say I like to try 2096 01:41:36.399 --> 01:41:38.960 to be impartial, but you know the amount of heat 2097 01:41:39.000 --> 01:41:40.680 mail and I got, I gotta say the guy did 2098 01:41:40.720 --> 01:41:41.239 some good things. 2099 01:41:41.359 --> 01:41:46.359 Yet you definitely have a conflict of interest. But I 2100 01:41:46.439 --> 01:41:49.560 don't tell you the reason I didn't remember it was 2101 01:41:49.720 --> 01:41:53.079 because I don't want to brag about it. But it 2102 01:41:53.199 --> 01:41:56.399 had happen, I don't know twenty five times in my time. 2103 01:41:56.479 --> 01:41:59.439 It just so many. And I told you a story 2104 01:41:59.479 --> 01:42:02.479 of a guy in to it at the event, at 2105 01:42:02.520 --> 01:42:04.239 one of the Fight Upontment events, and he told me 2106 01:42:04.319 --> 01:42:06.600 the same story. You know, he punched the cop and 2107 01:42:07.079 --> 01:42:09.199 they weren't going to hire him, but he turned his 2108 01:42:09.319 --> 01:42:11.800 life around, and you know, just to me, and I 2109 01:42:11.920 --> 01:42:13.720 told you that I was a screw up and I 2110 01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:16.359 got away with a lot of stuff. And I always 2111 01:42:16.399 --> 01:42:19.600 felt like, you know, the second and third time, well 2112 01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:21.560 that's different. Now we got to fight the guy, but 2113 01:42:22.359 --> 01:42:25.920 second chance, you got to give people a chance. And 2114 01:42:26.159 --> 01:42:28.159 then I found this letter I was reading to you 2115 01:42:28.239 --> 01:42:30.920 guys before about a guy. They called me up and 2116 01:42:31.000 --> 01:42:33.600 they said, you know, they just closed out the Captain's 2117 01:42:33.640 --> 01:42:36.119 list and the guy who was left number one has 2118 01:42:36.199 --> 01:42:39.640 seven kids. And I said, really, they said, and they said, yeah, 2119 01:42:40.119 --> 01:42:43.319 you know, it's terrible. And then somebody said that's horrible, 2120 01:42:43.319 --> 01:42:46.960 and I said, well make them. And then you know, 2121 01:42:47.039 --> 01:42:49.199 he said letters to me and sell me, thanking me 2122 01:42:49.279 --> 01:42:49.680 and stuff. 2123 01:42:49.720 --> 01:42:49.880 You know. 2124 01:42:50.239 --> 01:42:52.520 It just it was the best part of the job, 2125 01:42:52.640 --> 01:42:54.680 being able to do things like that. 2126 01:42:55.000 --> 01:42:55.159 You know. 2127 01:42:55.520 --> 01:42:57.560 I thought maybe you guys would bring up the famous 2128 01:42:58.079 --> 01:43:01.039 ty story too, So we've I had some guy for 2129 01:43:01.199 --> 01:43:04.520 not wearing a tie, right, Louis Gotcia comes in to 2130 01:43:04.640 --> 01:43:06.960 me and he says, I got this fire Marshal. He's 2131 01:43:07.000 --> 01:43:10.239 a complete mutt. He does everything, you know, blah, I 2132 01:43:10.279 --> 01:43:12.960 got a million things. I can't stand him. I haven't 2133 01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:15.399 able to nail him down. And I just had him 2134 01:43:15.399 --> 01:43:17.239 at a meeting and you didn't have a tie on. 2135 01:43:17.720 --> 01:43:20.520 I told him you doesn't where a tie, he's gonna 2136 01:43:20.520 --> 01:43:22.880 get fired. So I said, all right, let's fire him. 2137 01:43:22.880 --> 01:43:31.039 So we fired him. All the lawyers wrong, all the 2138 01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:33.479 lawyers came to me. He said, you can't fire a guy. 2139 01:43:35.319 --> 01:43:39.680 Oh yeah, well it's done now. So of course he 2140 01:43:39.760 --> 01:43:41.960 went to court. He won, he got his back pay 2141 01:43:42.039 --> 01:43:43.439 and everything other. But we had an awful lot of 2142 01:43:43.520 --> 01:43:46.479 fun fire in this guy firing. 2143 01:43:47.079 --> 01:43:47.800 Don't worry about it. 2144 01:43:48.800 --> 01:43:50.520 It was like that part. I like that part of 2145 01:43:50.640 --> 01:43:53.479 the little bit of because you're saying to yourself, there's 2146 01:43:53.520 --> 01:43:55.319 no way it could be all like straight on. You know, 2147 01:43:55.399 --> 01:43:57.800 there's like those little conversations like, yeah, this guy's a mutt, 2148 01:43:58.840 --> 01:44:01.039 what can we do? Yeah? Talking to my guy all. 2149 01:44:02.600 --> 01:44:06.479 It was so much, so much fun. Help guy, you 2150 01:44:06.560 --> 01:44:09.520 know if you can. But you know, I can't win 2151 01:44:09.600 --> 01:44:10.079 a walk. 2152 01:44:10.840 --> 01:44:13.319 What So this was this was the other question. I think, 2153 01:44:13.359 --> 01:44:17.079 I uh, chief digar with this. If you had to 2154 01:44:17.119 --> 01:44:19.279 do it all over again, would you would you would 2155 01:44:19.319 --> 01:44:21.560 you do it? Would you take the jump? Would you 2156 01:44:21.600 --> 01:44:23.640 take the would you go sell real estate like you 2157 01:44:23.720 --> 01:44:26.199 were going to do, or retire out and have no 2158 01:44:26.279 --> 01:44:27.439 aggravation and be you. 2159 01:44:27.479 --> 01:44:31.359 Know, no, I wasn't gonna sell real estate, was managing 2160 01:44:31.680 --> 01:44:34.800 a building in Manhattan, but I would definitely do it. 2161 01:44:34.960 --> 01:44:35.680 Super crystal. 2162 01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:38.960 To me, it was the best job I ever had, 2163 01:44:39.600 --> 01:44:41.239 you know, it was it was It had all the 2164 01:44:41.359 --> 01:44:45.119 combinations of the craziness, the fun of the firehouse. I 2165 01:44:45.239 --> 01:44:47.119 got to go to fires once in a while. Even 2166 01:44:47.199 --> 01:44:50.319 that audible talks about, you know how he was in 2167 01:44:50.439 --> 01:44:53.000 the fire for an hour and a half as commissioner. 2168 01:44:53.039 --> 01:44:55.000 Commissioners don't go in fires, you know what I mean. 2169 01:44:55.079 --> 01:44:58.199 It's but I was a fireman, so I enjoyed it. 2170 01:44:58.279 --> 01:44:59.039 It was fun, you know. 2171 01:44:59.560 --> 01:45:01.760 So I thought it was the best job in the 2172 01:45:01.800 --> 01:45:04.119 world for me. I got a chance to really help 2173 01:45:04.199 --> 01:45:08.039 a lot of people. And then, if you's it, I 2174 01:45:08.279 --> 01:45:12.319 really thought as horrible as September eleventh was. And I'm 2175 01:45:12.359 --> 01:45:15.159 saying this, maybe maybe it's you guys will say it's 2176 01:45:15.199 --> 01:45:17.720 my ego, whatever, but I thought I was the best 2177 01:45:17.800 --> 01:45:21.560 guy to do it at the time because I cared 2178 01:45:21.640 --> 01:45:25.600 so much about the guys and the wives and the kids, 2179 01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:28.960 and you know, bringing the city back and everything. I 2180 01:45:29.039 --> 01:45:33.319 think that so that was a sacrifice for me. You know, 2181 01:45:33.399 --> 01:45:35.319 people say how did you how could you do it? 2182 01:45:35.399 --> 01:45:37.560 How'd you get through it? And I say, like, was 2183 01:45:37.600 --> 01:45:38.199 I supposed to do? 2184 01:45:38.359 --> 01:45:38.520 Quit? 2185 01:45:38.800 --> 01:45:42.479 You know, it's it was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. 2186 01:45:42.600 --> 01:45:47.199 But the relationships, the things that we could do for 2187 01:45:47.319 --> 01:45:51.319 the families and for you know, the guys, and we 2188 01:45:51.479 --> 01:45:54.399 did them, and the things we couldn't do, you know, 2189 01:45:54.520 --> 01:45:57.159 we suffered from and they suffered from. You know, if 2190 01:45:57.199 --> 01:45:58.880 I was doing it again, I would do a lot 2191 01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:01.560 of that very differently. I think I would. I wasn't 2192 01:46:01.640 --> 01:46:05.239 in charge of, you know, the mitigation, you know, as 2193 01:46:05.319 --> 01:46:07.359 far as you know, some of the things that the 2194 01:46:07.479 --> 01:46:10.119 job and everything. But I think we probably made a 2195 01:46:10.199 --> 01:46:13.960 mistake by leaving the guys in there way too long, 2196 01:46:14.319 --> 01:46:17.439 especially when we knew there was no nobody was alive, 2197 01:46:18.199 --> 01:46:22.079 you know, just to find remains as important as remains 2198 01:46:22.960 --> 01:46:26.920 are too loved ones to put all those people that 2199 01:46:28.199 --> 01:46:34.039 these answers today, But again that's Monday morning quarterbacking. I'd 2200 01:46:34.079 --> 01:46:38.039 never criticized the chiefs for the way to handle the 2201 01:46:38.119 --> 01:46:40.399 fire that day, because I don't think it's that's fair, 2202 01:46:40.800 --> 01:46:43.560 But I do think it should be done differently if 2203 01:46:43.600 --> 01:46:46.439 it happens again. I think when I saw what happened 2204 01:46:46.479 --> 01:46:49.840 with Deutsche Bank. I was totally in shock. I thought, 2205 01:46:49.880 --> 01:46:52.319 how could we be sending all these people up in 2206 01:46:52.439 --> 01:46:55.880 a construction elevator without any way of getting them out? 2207 01:46:56.279 --> 01:47:00.319 I mean that that sound like good planning. So you 2208 01:47:00.359 --> 01:47:01.920 know you've got to be you should be able to 2209 01:47:02.000 --> 01:47:05.239 get out of something you're sending people in. I mean 2210 01:47:05.319 --> 01:47:09.720 that's like one O one, right, So yeah, the question 2211 01:47:09.880 --> 01:47:12.159 I would I would do it all again. I I 2212 01:47:12.720 --> 01:47:16.800 My latest emergency was COVID with FEMA. I really enjoy 2213 01:47:16.920 --> 01:47:20.479 getting back in it. It was a horrible, horrible time 2214 01:47:20.560 --> 01:47:22.960 for New York City. I was glad to be able 2215 01:47:22.960 --> 01:47:26.199 to make a difference, and I may even have one 2216 01:47:26.239 --> 01:47:27.319 more emergency left to me. 2217 01:47:27.399 --> 01:47:29.119 But I was gonna say, how old are you know? 2218 01:47:30.560 --> 01:47:34.039 Almost nine, almost seventy nine, So like, I'm really old. 2219 01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:40.439 I'm falling acros good hair. You still say that, bro 2220 01:47:41.079 --> 01:47:42.720 just goes back any further. It will be in the 2221 01:47:42.760 --> 01:47:43.319 back of my head. 2222 01:47:43.399 --> 01:47:46.119 Yeah, you don't have this. You don't have this going on, right, 2223 01:47:46.159 --> 01:47:49.680 you don't have I don't look yet. 2224 01:47:51.479 --> 01:47:51.920 Good for you? 2225 01:47:52.560 --> 01:47:54.439 Yeah yet? 2226 01:47:55.119 --> 01:47:56.359 Uh commissioned. 2227 01:47:56.399 --> 01:47:58.800 If there is anything that you could change about yourself 2228 01:47:59.199 --> 01:48:01.039 and the way you hand something, what would it be. 2229 01:48:01.960 --> 01:48:02.680 That's a good question. 2230 01:48:03.279 --> 01:48:04.399 Well, I'm thick as ship. 2231 01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:08.000 I've heard that from quite a few guys. But it's 2232 01:48:08.079 --> 01:48:09.600 a good heart thickish. 2233 01:48:10.560 --> 01:48:12.960 Yeah, I am thick. I mean, you know, I hear 2234 01:48:13.279 --> 01:48:15.039 from people that care about me a lot. 2235 01:48:15.319 --> 01:48:18.479 But I don't know other way other. 2236 01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:21.239 Than that change man what. I'm kind of like that too. Man, 2237 01:48:21.279 --> 01:48:23.199 Once you have your own ideas, it's not an easy 2238 01:48:23.279 --> 01:48:24.119 thing to other than that. 2239 01:48:24.640 --> 01:48:26.279 I'm almost perfect. 2240 01:48:28.000 --> 01:48:31.119 Good for you. Oh, I know, I want to ask 2241 01:48:31.199 --> 01:48:33.479 you if somebody told me this, because we're gonna we're 2242 01:48:33.479 --> 01:48:38.640 getting close, is it like a fifty rate that commissioners 2243 01:48:38.720 --> 01:48:40.079 don't last their full tenure? 2244 01:48:40.239 --> 01:48:40.359 Is that? 2245 01:48:40.640 --> 01:48:43.720 Is that a full Is that any we're gonna ask about? 2246 01:48:43.760 --> 01:48:46.279 Yeah, well, yeah, I forgot about it. I don't I 2247 01:48:46.359 --> 01:48:46.680 don't know. 2248 01:48:47.600 --> 01:48:51.479 I know Lowry they crucified he was the first black guy. 2249 01:48:51.680 --> 01:48:54.800 They crucified him. They call him you know. They were 2250 01:48:54.880 --> 01:48:57.359 saying he was selling drugs and everything else. So they 2251 01:48:57.439 --> 01:49:00.800 came after him. Oh, Hagan was when I was a 2252 01:49:00.880 --> 01:49:03.079 young firefighter, I used to tell me o'hagen was a 2253 01:49:03.199 --> 01:49:05.359 drunk and he was this, and he was that. As 2254 01:49:05.399 --> 01:49:07.479 I get older, I found out o'hagen was probably the 2255 01:49:07.520 --> 01:49:15.239 best commissioner we've far as like making making improvements in 2256 01:49:15.640 --> 01:49:18.720 places like I mean, Manhattan is a very safe place. 2257 01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:21.479 All the all the buildings in Manhattan the very safe. 2258 01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:24.840 The ones that we regulate, I mean we can regulate 2259 01:49:24.920 --> 01:49:27.439 them because we can hit all those companies up for money. 2260 01:49:27.680 --> 01:49:31.159 We can't regulate a six family in the South Bronx 2261 01:49:31.640 --> 01:49:34.720 or in BEVs Ivesant. So we were able to regulate 2262 01:49:34.800 --> 01:49:37.880 people that have money. So that's why Manhattan is so safe. 2263 01:49:38.039 --> 01:49:41.039 I think because of people like o'hagen, Bill fi Han 2264 01:49:41.560 --> 01:49:44.439 when you know he was early on. They they they 2265 01:49:44.560 --> 01:49:47.640 passed a lot of laws. It was a great fire commissioner, 2266 01:49:47.720 --> 01:49:51.560 young smart uh you know, chief of department then fire commissioner, 2267 01:49:52.199 --> 01:49:56.199 Like I say, Lowry got crucified, Bruno got crucified. We'd 2268 01:49:56.279 --> 01:49:58.840 be out of outside his office saying jump Joe Jump. 2269 01:49:58.920 --> 01:50:02.039 I was there in the union and he was and 2270 01:50:02.199 --> 01:50:04.800 he was a good guy, a good a good commissioner, 2271 01:50:04.920 --> 01:50:08.319 but no support from the mayor. Horrible budget. Cities in 2272 01:50:08.399 --> 01:50:12.119 a toilet. So really a lot depends on the conditions 2273 01:50:12.159 --> 01:50:17.239 of the city. To get conditions of the city, you know, Scoppetta, 2274 01:50:17.600 --> 01:50:20.279 when I was leaving Bloomberg had asked me to stay, 2275 01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:23.640 and I was, you know, you guys can probably see emotionally, 2276 01:50:23.760 --> 01:50:27.680 I'm uh, you know, I have some tough issues with 2277 01:50:27.760 --> 01:50:30.000 this stuff. So I had to go, you know, but 2278 01:50:30.039 --> 01:50:32.680 Bloomberg had asked me to stay. And if I had stayed, Man, 2279 01:50:32.720 --> 01:50:35.880 we would have really solidified a lot of these changes 2280 01:50:35.920 --> 01:50:37.720 that we got in place. I mean, we started a 2281 01:50:37.800 --> 01:50:40.439 comstat in the fight department. As soon as I left, 2282 01:50:40.479 --> 01:50:42.119 they got rid of it. They don't want to be 2283 01:50:42.279 --> 01:50:45.399 managed or accountable, you know, they just don't. They just 2284 01:50:45.520 --> 01:50:49.039 don't have that mentality of a business mentality. I remember 2285 01:50:49.079 --> 01:50:52.439 working for Honeywell, and Honeywell the president says, he says, 2286 01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:54.600 we're not the government. We don't have to be inefficient, 2287 01:50:55.039 --> 01:50:55.239 you know. 2288 01:50:55.239 --> 01:50:55.600 What I mean. 2289 01:50:56.359 --> 01:50:59.560 There's a there's a civil service mentality that you know. 2290 01:50:59.600 --> 01:51:01.640 I saw it a FEMA. You see the fight upon 2291 01:51:01.760 --> 01:51:05.359 we see any city agency, there's they just wait for 2292 01:51:05.720 --> 01:51:08.239 people to you know, wear them out, you know what 2293 01:51:08.279 --> 01:51:10.319 I mean. And even a good chief keep trying to 2294 01:51:10.680 --> 01:51:14.199 change stuff, change stuff, and finally uh they gave Yeah. 2295 01:51:15.039 --> 01:51:19.239 I mean Cassano, uh, you know, had his time. Dandy 2296 01:51:19.319 --> 01:51:21.640 lasted eight years. Like I say, with the worst mayor 2297 01:51:21.680 --> 01:51:23.720 and history of mayors. I don't think he accomplished much. 2298 01:51:24.279 --> 01:51:27.640 But you know, I don't know. I don't know if 2299 01:51:27.680 --> 01:51:31.279 the history, I don't remember the leabody. 2300 01:51:31.000 --> 01:51:32.319 Somebody gave me that call. I don't know if it 2301 01:51:32.479 --> 01:51:32.720 was sure. 2302 01:51:33.880 --> 01:51:36.399 Yeah, well my dad drove Gus Beatman. 2303 01:51:37.359 --> 01:51:37.680 Okay. 2304 01:51:37.920 --> 01:51:39.399 Did he leave before his term was up? 2305 01:51:39.439 --> 01:51:40.159 I don't know. 2306 01:51:40.319 --> 01:51:41.439 But he was a good guy man. 2307 01:51:41.520 --> 01:51:42.159 He was a good guy. 2308 01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:45.319 Yeah, yeah, I got a picture him with Until. He's 2309 01:51:45.319 --> 01:51:45.840 a nice man. 2310 01:51:45.960 --> 01:51:47.479 Good companies too. 2311 01:51:47.520 --> 01:51:48.880 I think he was up in Halem right. 2312 01:51:50.399 --> 01:51:52.720 Uh, yeah, he was one of them, A good fights 2313 01:51:52.920 --> 01:51:54.439 that The name I was tarted to think of before 2314 01:51:54.479 --> 01:51:55.279 was Charlie Rivera. 2315 01:51:55.600 --> 01:51:58.039 He was a yeah, yeah, yeah. We've had a lot 2316 01:51:58.079 --> 01:51:59.840 of pictures of him, like we've had guys on the 2317 01:51:59.880 --> 01:52:02.560 sh show show pictures of the early days. I forget 2318 01:52:02.560 --> 01:52:04.920 what companies, but and he was in there, you know, 2319 01:52:05.079 --> 01:52:08.079 and and you know in some legit companies, you know. 2320 01:52:08.239 --> 01:52:11.039 Good good fire ups. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, doesn't mean 2321 01:52:11.039 --> 01:52:12.079 you're going to do a good job. 2322 01:52:12.560 --> 01:52:12.720 You know. 2323 01:52:14.239 --> 01:52:17.359 Politics are rough, you know, because they're not honest. The 2324 01:52:17.399 --> 01:52:22.199 finous is pretty honest. They may they may not be honest, Yeah, they. 2325 01:52:21.920 --> 01:52:22.680 May not be right. 2326 01:52:23.079 --> 01:52:25.760 But I think that's what I would take away from 2327 01:52:25.840 --> 01:52:26.399 this podcast. 2328 01:52:26.479 --> 01:52:29.600 That's how that's how they mean that they're right. 2329 01:52:29.760 --> 01:52:32.640 But that's what's that rough I would say I would 2330 01:52:32.640 --> 01:52:34.560 take that away from the podcast, is that I can't 2331 01:52:34.960 --> 01:52:38.159 just because you it's not an easy thing to to 2332 01:52:38.880 --> 01:52:41.920 to work the politic area, you know, it's an easy thing. 2333 01:52:42.000 --> 01:52:43.880 I mean, even the union is not an easy thing 2334 01:52:44.239 --> 01:52:46.079 to do, you know what I mean. And that's it. 2335 01:52:46.359 --> 01:52:49.239 That's like the minor leagues, right, that's not that's not 2336 01:52:49.399 --> 01:52:53.000 even like the major leagues. That's like a ball, you 2337 01:52:53.079 --> 01:52:56.600 know what I mean, like in comparison doing political wise anyway. 2338 01:52:56.720 --> 01:52:59.079 Right, So that would be maybe a good question to 2339 01:52:59.119 --> 01:53:01.359 maybe give some advice for somebody maybe looking to fill 2340 01:53:01.479 --> 01:53:05.239 your shoes someday in fd U, Y or even anywhere 2341 01:53:05.279 --> 01:53:05.880 in the world. 2342 01:53:05.960 --> 01:53:07.960 And Tucker, what would you tell Tucker right now? 2343 01:53:08.039 --> 01:53:08.600 Yeah, what would you. 2344 01:53:08.600 --> 01:53:15.520 Tell What would you tell Tucker? Well, he probably already did. 2345 01:53:17.000 --> 01:53:20.880 Well, then you can share with us. I hope, I hope. Yeah. 2346 01:53:20.960 --> 01:53:25.239 I want to help him succeed, you know, and I 2347 01:53:25.319 --> 01:53:28.439 think he can. He's a I think he really loves 2348 01:53:28.520 --> 01:53:31.159 the guys, he loves the job. I think he'll be 2349 01:53:31.279 --> 01:53:34.720 shocked at how poor poorly it's managed. When he gets 2350 01:53:34.960 --> 01:53:37.840 when he really gets into the weeds. But he's a businessman, 2351 01:53:38.239 --> 01:53:41.039 he's uh, he's around a long time. He's a smart guy, 2352 01:53:41.520 --> 01:53:43.000 and I think he's got an opportunity. 2353 01:53:43.199 --> 01:53:44.000 He can go either way. 2354 01:53:44.239 --> 01:53:46.479 He can just be uh you know, the guy that 2355 01:53:46.560 --> 01:53:49.720 goes around uh, you know, having some fun and making 2356 01:53:49.760 --> 01:53:51.800 the guys feel good. Or he can actually go in 2357 01:53:51.880 --> 01:53:54.399 there and you know, maybe make a difference. And that'll 2358 01:53:54.439 --> 01:53:56.960 be up to him. And he's got to watch out because, 2359 01:53:57.000 --> 01:53:59.640 like I say, they stand begged her at city Hall 2360 01:54:00.079 --> 01:54:02.319 and they could easily stand bag him too. 2361 01:54:02.439 --> 01:54:04.600 You know, you can't do it. 2362 01:54:05.159 --> 01:54:07.680 Yeah, you can give you some hairbags to work. 2363 01:54:09.840 --> 01:54:14.159 Alcohol. You did it. 2364 01:54:15.720 --> 01:54:16.760 I can't feel my face. 2365 01:54:18.439 --> 01:54:21.000 If he doesn't get a good team, uh he, he 2366 01:54:21.119 --> 01:54:21.720 won't succeed. 2367 01:54:22.359 --> 01:54:23.399 Why why is that? 2368 01:54:23.680 --> 01:54:27.920 Why is it that the hot road, the hotter road 2369 01:54:28.039 --> 01:54:31.239 to tow is to do the right thing? Don't Is 2370 01:54:31.319 --> 01:54:33.000 that backwards in this job? No? 2371 01:54:33.279 --> 01:54:36.039 No, But you when you use the expression, like I 2372 01:54:36.439 --> 01:54:38.640 remember that expression in the union, do the right thing? 2373 01:54:39.199 --> 01:54:39.560 What is that? 2374 01:54:39.720 --> 01:54:42.399 What is exactly does that mean? Do the right You 2375 01:54:42.439 --> 01:54:45.039 know when you hear the teachers Union say it's about 2376 01:54:45.119 --> 01:54:50.359 the kids. You really believe that that's a bullshit? Is 2377 01:54:50.439 --> 01:54:55.079 it true with a particular teacher. Absolutely, I've seen teachers. 2378 01:54:55.119 --> 01:54:57.720 I mean, it's just like, oh, guys, they love their job, 2379 01:54:57.880 --> 01:55:03.039 they love the kids. For every one of those guys, 2380 01:55:03.199 --> 01:55:05.479 or every five of those guys, there's one guy that'll 2381 01:55:05.600 --> 01:55:06.920 just screw the system. 2382 01:55:06.960 --> 01:55:07.760 Right and left. 2383 01:55:08.119 --> 01:55:10.720 So do the right thing for who. The union is 2384 01:55:10.840 --> 01:55:14.000 like a like a defense attorney. The defense attorney doesn't 2385 01:55:14.000 --> 01:55:16.560 walk into the room and say, listen, lou is a 2386 01:55:16.640 --> 01:55:20.159 really good guy, but he's guilty of sin, so give 2387 01:55:20.199 --> 01:55:23.039 him a break. That's not the lawyer comes in, he 2388 01:55:23.119 --> 01:55:26.079 lies his bullsoff to get you off. And that's what 2389 01:55:26.159 --> 01:55:28.079 the union does. So the union's got a hard job, 2390 01:55:28.319 --> 01:55:31.239 you know, But that's not the commissioner's job. The commissioners 2391 01:55:31.279 --> 01:55:33.279 job is to is to run a bill and run 2392 01:55:33.359 --> 01:55:37.079 a department with seventeen thousand people as efficiently as possible 2393 01:55:37.159 --> 01:55:39.800 for nine million citizens that are that are trying to 2394 01:55:40.319 --> 01:55:43.800 You know, the guys are funny because there was a surplus. 2395 01:55:43.880 --> 01:55:46.119 One time when I was some time in the union, 2396 01:55:46.159 --> 01:55:48.399 they said there's a surplus of a million dollars. So 2397 01:55:48.479 --> 01:55:50.760 immediately our guys thought, oh good, we're gonna get it, 2398 01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:53.800 you know what I mean. Forget about the bridges, forget 2399 01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:57.520 about the subways, forget about the school sanitation talks, forget 2400 01:55:57.560 --> 01:55:57.800 about it. 2401 01:55:57.880 --> 01:55:59.079 I'm getting zero. Come on. 2402 01:56:00.039 --> 01:56:01.720 Yeah, it was with terurrific. 2403 01:56:01.840 --> 01:56:02.000 You know. 2404 01:56:02.479 --> 01:56:04.560 It was those two zero's when you said that before. 2405 01:56:04.800 --> 01:56:08.640 Oh my god, I remember that. I remember that, like 2406 01:56:09.000 --> 01:56:12.920 uh and again I had, you know, I just I 2407 01:56:13.000 --> 01:56:15.319 guess I remember where I. 2408 01:56:15.600 --> 01:56:19.000 Was when the guys told this Juliani. It was two zeros. 2409 01:56:19.039 --> 01:56:20.359 I remember exactly where I was. 2410 01:56:20.439 --> 01:56:23.960 But remember he gave it every city employee, not just us. 2411 01:56:24.039 --> 01:56:27.079 Yeah yeah, yeah no, but that didn't matter. Why would 2412 01:56:27.079 --> 01:56:28.079 you let the facts matter? 2413 01:56:28.399 --> 01:56:30.119 But you got to remember too, it was a five 2414 01:56:30.199 --> 01:56:32.239 year contract. It was a five year contract. 2415 01:56:32.279 --> 01:56:34.640 It was zero zero two right, two three or something? 2416 01:56:34.720 --> 01:56:35.159 Right? Yeah? 2417 01:56:35.279 --> 01:56:38.239 No, I think it was fifteen or fourteen the other 2418 01:56:38.359 --> 01:56:41.319 three years you know between. I think so so it 2419 01:56:41.479 --> 01:56:43.760 was the fourteen percent contract for five years. 2420 01:56:43.920 --> 01:56:45.520 I think I remember saying that he would have been 2421 01:56:45.560 --> 01:56:47.560 better off if he went two two three, it just 2422 01:56:47.760 --> 01:56:49.840 spread it out over five. Nobody would have said shit, 2423 01:56:50.079 --> 01:56:50.600 you know what I mean? 2424 01:56:51.520 --> 01:56:54.239 I think I think I said that before Giuliani said 2425 01:56:54.279 --> 01:56:56.239 that to me one time. He said, I really screwed up. 2426 01:56:56.239 --> 01:56:58.960 I should have just done one zero. You know, he 2427 01:56:59.039 --> 01:56:59.560 admitted that. 2428 01:56:59.720 --> 01:57:02.279 You know, somebody said zero, there are three, three, six. 2429 01:57:02.479 --> 01:57:05.439 Yeah, you talk about optics, you know, and now you talk. 2430 01:57:06.079 --> 01:57:07.720 You know. That was a tough way to start with 2431 01:57:07.880 --> 01:57:10.119 all you all of your employees. You know. 2432 01:57:10.439 --> 01:57:12.119 I really thought he made it up to us in 2433 01:57:12.199 --> 01:57:14.720 so many other ways though, But I was you know, 2434 01:57:14.880 --> 01:57:16.640 for me, I was on the inside, so I knew 2435 01:57:16.800 --> 01:57:18.840 what he was doing, what I was doing. Yeah, rich 2436 01:57:18.920 --> 01:57:21.359 guy in the Fai house, Like I said, they they 2437 01:57:21.399 --> 01:57:22.239 don't know who to believe. 2438 01:57:22.359 --> 01:57:25.000 You know. I gotta tell you if being an outside 2439 01:57:25.039 --> 01:57:28.199 and not knowing Julianni and this speaks for even the cops, Bro, 2440 01:57:28.600 --> 01:57:31.640 you always felt no matter what, that guy really legitimately 2441 01:57:31.760 --> 01:57:35.000 had your back, no matter what happened. He believed you 2442 01:57:35.239 --> 01:57:37.279 before he believed what happened to the city. 2443 01:57:37.399 --> 01:57:39.199 I mean, look what the what happened to the city 2444 01:57:39.239 --> 01:57:41.560 when he came in. I remember my first year or 2445 01:57:41.600 --> 01:57:44.319 second year, right, he wasn't in And I went on 2446 01:57:44.560 --> 01:57:48.359 on the July fourth on independence. They went at fourth 2447 01:57:48.399 --> 01:57:50.000 of July. I went to like seven jobs or some 2448 01:57:50.159 --> 01:57:53.119 ridiculous thing. He came in like that was it fought. 2449 01:57:53.159 --> 01:57:56.560 The July was done. It was like zero, right, were like, 2450 01:57:56.640 --> 01:57:58.960 come on, you're killing me here, you know what I mean? 2451 01:58:00.119 --> 01:58:03.079 You know, like Tom was saying like he was he 2452 01:58:03.199 --> 01:58:05.079 was a tough though, like even with the cops, like 2453 01:58:05.239 --> 01:58:07.520 he supported the cops big time, but as soon as 2454 01:58:07.600 --> 01:58:10.000 he were a bad cop, he crucified you. So right, 2455 01:58:10.439 --> 01:58:13.800 But I always gave you Remember the black face and 2456 01:58:13.920 --> 01:58:17.680 Howard Beach, Ye remember something? So I had that one. 2457 01:58:17.800 --> 01:58:19.640 So the lawyer comes out to me as a good 2458 01:58:19.640 --> 01:58:21.640 friend of mine, Mike Block, who just recently died. 2459 01:58:21.680 --> 01:58:24.000 He said, oh, he just died. I don't know, he 2460 01:58:24.119 --> 01:58:24.479 just died. 2461 01:58:24.560 --> 01:58:26.479 Really good guy. He says, man, I want to talk 2462 01:58:26.479 --> 01:58:27.359 to you about these guys. 2463 01:58:27.439 --> 01:58:27.560 You know. 2464 01:58:27.600 --> 01:58:28.680 I said, yeah, okay, come on in. 2465 01:58:29.039 --> 01:58:29.640 So he comes in. 2466 01:58:29.760 --> 01:58:31.680 Of course he doesn't come in just me and him. 2467 01:58:31.720 --> 01:58:33.479 We could talk off the record. He brings in like 2468 01:58:33.800 --> 01:58:35.720 a whole bunch of other people at Sam bagged me 2469 01:58:35.840 --> 01:58:38.119 later on, but I told him, like, I don't think 2470 01:58:38.119 --> 01:58:40.840 we should fight these guys. They're just morons, you know, 2471 01:58:41.399 --> 01:58:43.039 fight every moron holy ship. 2472 01:58:43.119 --> 01:58:46.279 We have like six guys. We have like six guys. 2473 01:58:48.000 --> 01:58:51.760 So Julianni calls me up and he says, what are 2474 01:58:51.760 --> 01:58:53.920 you talking about. You have to fight these guys. I said, 2475 01:58:53.960 --> 01:58:56.439 boss that I'm wanna fight them. They're good guys. They're 2476 01:58:56.520 --> 01:58:59.920 just ship heads, you know. Mistake, he said, Tommy, He said, 2477 01:59:00.000 --> 01:59:02.079 that's not how it works. It's the city of New York. 2478 01:59:02.399 --> 01:59:05.359 We have a tremendous population of minorities. We have to 2479 01:59:05.479 --> 01:59:08.359 show them support. We can't do so, I said, you know, 2480 01:59:08.640 --> 01:59:11.319 he convinced me. So of course, now the guy's criticized you. 2481 01:59:11.399 --> 01:59:14.239 You rolled over. You know you didn't care, I said, 2482 01:59:14.520 --> 01:59:16.640 I said, I didn't roll over. I think he's right 2483 01:59:16.760 --> 01:59:18.479 to tell you the truth. And I wasn't going to 2484 01:59:18.520 --> 01:59:21.840 give up my job for these two morons, you know 2485 01:59:21.840 --> 01:59:23.920 what I mean. I mean, I don't want to fire them, 2486 01:59:24.159 --> 01:59:26.479 but if it comes to firing them or and not 2487 01:59:27.079 --> 01:59:29.680 and having all these lawsuits of people, you know, with 2488 01:59:29.760 --> 01:59:32.840 the minorities that they insulted them so much, that's what 2489 01:59:32.960 --> 01:59:34.880 you have to do. Anyway, they won the case, they 2490 01:59:34.920 --> 01:59:36.960 got back on the job done. The city appealed and 2491 01:59:37.039 --> 01:59:37.840 they lost the case. 2492 01:59:37.880 --> 01:59:39.039 And I was like, did they. 2493 01:59:40.680 --> 01:59:44.199 Yeah, it was like the case in My daughter's a lawyer, 2494 01:59:44.199 --> 01:59:47.199 and she said they actually was a case and that 2495 01:59:47.359 --> 01:59:49.880 they studied you know, all the you know, whether or 2496 01:59:49.880 --> 01:59:52.000 not you have the right to say whatever you want 2497 01:59:52.119 --> 01:59:54.119 even though you're not in uniform and all that kind 2498 01:59:54.119 --> 01:59:56.880 of stuff. So you know, it's not easy to be 2499 01:59:56.960 --> 02:00:00.520 the mayor of the city in New York. It's to job, 2500 02:00:00.840 --> 02:00:04.920 you know. I feel bad for, you know, people who try. 2501 02:00:05.039 --> 02:00:07.239 I mean I think I think Juliani really tried, and 2502 02:00:07.239 --> 02:00:09.359 I think he did a great job as a man, true. 2503 02:00:10.159 --> 02:00:13.000 Putting out like legitly putting out fires every day, Like 2504 02:00:13.199 --> 02:00:15.720 every day there's some ship that you don't like, even 2505 02:00:15.760 --> 02:00:18.039 if you're personally having a bad day, like yourself and 2506 02:00:18.079 --> 02:00:20.720 your own life, Like you got to hear some shit about. 2507 02:00:22.039 --> 02:00:25.600 Black face or some ship like this guy urinating in 2508 02:00:25.760 --> 02:00:30.560 public fighting right, Oh my god, we are our own 2509 02:00:30.720 --> 02:00:32.159 worst enemy. I don't know how. 2510 02:00:32.239 --> 02:00:33.680 I don't think I would. I don't think I would 2511 02:00:33.720 --> 02:00:35.079 have done it. I don't. First of all, I don't 2512 02:00:35.079 --> 02:00:37.239 think I could do it. Like I was thinking about 2513 02:00:37.239 --> 02:00:39.520 that before when you said, when they called you and said, hey, listen, 2514 02:00:39.560 --> 02:00:42.720 we want you to come for but a commissioners thing, 2515 02:00:42.960 --> 02:00:44.520 and you were like, you know, and then you talk 2516 02:00:44.560 --> 02:00:46.199 to your wife. I'm like, I don't think I could 2517 02:00:46.279 --> 02:00:49.199 really do that job. Like, I don't know if I 2518 02:00:49.319 --> 02:00:52.159 had it, like how it worked. I mean maybe because 2519 02:00:52.159 --> 02:00:53.880 you were in the in the politics for so long 2520 02:00:54.000 --> 02:00:54.960 it was a little bit easier. 2521 02:00:55.039 --> 02:00:57.520 But you know, I was going to say that coming 2522 02:00:57.600 --> 02:00:58.439 right from the firehouse. 2523 02:00:58.560 --> 02:00:58.920 Forget it. 2524 02:00:59.199 --> 02:01:01.720 No, they eat your life. I mean, I think the 2525 02:01:01.920 --> 02:01:04.319 biggest education I ever got was in the Union. Like 2526 02:01:04.399 --> 02:01:06.199 a lot of the chiefs criticized me when I got 2527 02:01:06.279 --> 02:01:08.119 the job, He's not a chief, he's a dope. 2528 02:01:09.439 --> 02:01:12.279 Failed to the can man. 2529 02:01:12.399 --> 02:01:14.520 That's when I heard the can man I never studied for, 2530 02:01:14.560 --> 02:01:16.840 lieutenant says, see I failed him. I would have failed 2531 02:01:16.960 --> 02:01:18.600 twenty of them if I took them, because I never 2532 02:01:18.720 --> 02:01:21.239 studied for You know, I had gotten a graduate degree 2533 02:01:21.279 --> 02:01:24.039 and everything I was I knew after ten years in 2534 02:01:24.079 --> 02:01:27.399 the Union. I really knew the department better than any 2535 02:01:27.520 --> 02:01:29.720 chief in the department, you know what I mean? Except 2536 02:01:29.800 --> 02:01:32.720 fee hand. And you know that's funny because when Sayer 2537 02:01:32.840 --> 02:01:36.000 call me that morning, the only condition they had, he said, 2538 02:01:36.079 --> 02:01:36.880 there's one condition. 2539 02:01:36.960 --> 02:01:37.520 I said, what is it? 2540 02:01:37.960 --> 02:01:39.960 That figure they were going to start, you know that stuff, 2541 02:01:41.159 --> 02:01:43.119 you got to keep fee in. I was going to 2542 02:01:43.239 --> 02:01:45.920 ask you that, I said, keep fee in geez, I 2543 02:01:46.119 --> 02:01:49.760 sure hope he stays. You know, he's a phenomenal guy, 2544 02:01:49.880 --> 02:01:52.640 a phenomenal leader, and he had the respect of of 2545 02:01:52.800 --> 02:01:55.560 all the people. And he admitted to me later on, 2546 02:01:55.680 --> 02:01:57.239 he said, you know, I was really pissed off when 2547 02:01:57.279 --> 02:01:59.439 you got the job. You know, I thought I deserved it. 2548 02:01:59.640 --> 02:02:01.760 You know, I was older than you. I knew more 2549 02:02:02.079 --> 02:02:05.319 at the experience and everything, he said, but he was 2550 02:02:05.399 --> 02:02:07.439 mad enough to say it to me. He always supported me, 2551 02:02:07.520 --> 02:02:10.479 He was totally loyal, gave me such great advice, never 2552 02:02:10.680 --> 02:02:13.560 tried to take me down and embarrass me. And a 2553 02:02:13.600 --> 02:02:15.119 couple of years later he said to me, you know 2554 02:02:15.439 --> 02:02:16.920 they were right. He said, you know you had the 2555 02:02:17.000 --> 02:02:19.640 balls to take all this stuff on. He said, I 2556 02:02:20.279 --> 02:02:22.359 didn't want to do that, you know, he was he 2557 02:02:22.520 --> 02:02:25.079 was fine with just trying to keep the guys safe 2558 02:02:25.159 --> 02:02:27.439 and putting out fires and stuff like that. He didn't 2559 02:02:27.439 --> 02:02:29.840 have the stomach for, you know, dealing with all the 2560 02:02:30.000 --> 02:02:30.640 dirt bags. 2561 02:02:30.640 --> 02:02:37.680 And I went to provy school with his son, Johnny 2562 02:02:37.720 --> 02:02:39.159 f Hen. He's a great guy too. Man. 2563 02:02:39.479 --> 02:02:40.239 He's a chief now. 2564 02:02:40.319 --> 02:02:41.680 I think, yeah, he's a chief too. 2565 02:02:42.399 --> 02:02:44.600 He's probably the reason you talk about the squads. He's 2566 02:02:44.640 --> 02:02:47.039 probably the reason, one of the main reasons. 2567 02:02:47.119 --> 02:02:48.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was at two fifty two, right, 2568 02:02:49.279 --> 02:02:49.479 he was. 2569 02:02:49.479 --> 02:02:51.560 Probably home whining to his father on a. 2570 02:02:53.920 --> 02:02:54.800 Daddy whiner. 2571 02:02:55.800 --> 02:02:58.920 God's a good man, he's a good guy. I haven't 2572 02:02:58.920 --> 02:02:59.840 seen him in a long time. 2573 02:03:00.319 --> 02:03:03.760 Yeah. So is there anything else, Chief, that you want 2574 02:03:03.840 --> 02:03:09.319 to just get out I'll be Chief stupid. Anything else 2575 02:03:10.159 --> 02:03:12.199 commission about acid that you want to get out there? 2576 02:03:13.399 --> 02:03:13.760 I don't know. 2577 02:03:15.119 --> 02:03:15.439 It was. 2578 02:03:16.279 --> 02:03:18.760 It was fun and it's painful and it's dead and 2579 02:03:19.199 --> 02:03:21.600 it's it's all rolled up into one for me. So 2580 02:03:22.600 --> 02:03:27.239 I'm very proud of my time as Commissioner, very proud 2581 02:03:27.279 --> 02:03:30.640 of it, and uh defended stand up to anybody for it. 2582 02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:32.760 I spent a lot of time, you know. I was 2583 02:03:32.920 --> 02:03:36.000 blessed afterwards. I was in busied with Giuliani for a 2584 02:03:36.039 --> 02:03:39.159 while and that ended, and I was working for Honeywell 2585 02:03:39.159 --> 02:03:41.600 and Underwriter's Laboratories, and I was all over the world 2586 02:03:42.119 --> 02:03:45.439 talking about improvements and safety and communication. And I had 2587 02:03:45.479 --> 02:03:47.800 a chance that everybody would say, oh, you would have 2588 02:03:48.000 --> 02:03:51.079 you would have fired commissioner on September eleventh, andah, and 2589 02:03:51.159 --> 02:03:56.159 I had a chance to tell everybody, you know, you 2590 02:03:56.319 --> 02:03:59.359 have great The guys were about what a job they 2591 02:03:59.439 --> 02:04:03.479 did that day. And I felt that people would say 2592 02:04:03.479 --> 02:04:05.039 to me, do you think anything good came out of 2593 02:04:05.079 --> 02:04:07.319 September lefth And I always said no, I couldn't think 2594 02:04:07.359 --> 02:04:11.920 of anything good except the fact that the people around 2595 02:04:11.960 --> 02:04:13.880 the world understood then. 2596 02:04:14.279 --> 02:04:17.720 How great, how brave? Yeah, how brave those guys, we. 2597 02:04:17.840 --> 02:04:21.159 All guys did that day was they raised the boat 2598 02:04:21.560 --> 02:04:25.479 of every for every firefighter throughout the world, because everybody 2599 02:04:25.600 --> 02:04:29.479 then so like, holy shit, they ran to that building 2600 02:04:29.520 --> 02:04:31.920 and they and they couldn't get out in time. And 2601 02:04:32.880 --> 02:04:36.640 so that to me, being a spokesperson, you know, and 2602 02:04:36.960 --> 02:04:39.960 to spread that word, that message all around the world, 2603 02:04:40.159 --> 02:04:42.560 and I'd love to travel too, it. 2604 02:04:42.640 --> 02:04:44.319 Was like a win win, you know. 2605 02:04:44.600 --> 02:04:46.960 And I mean you just got out of that. I mean, 2606 02:04:47.000 --> 02:04:49.119 you what I've seen videos of you and you know 2607 02:04:49.800 --> 02:04:52.039 in in the lobby. I mean it must have been 2608 02:04:52.119 --> 02:04:54.439 by the you know, skinny your teeth that you know, 2609 02:04:54.600 --> 02:04:56.439 just wasn't your time, right, Obviously. 2610 02:04:56.720 --> 02:04:59.520 I felt so good that nobody I was in the 2611 02:04:59.600 --> 02:05:03.640 lobby got killed. Nobody, you know, Chief Callen Hayden. 2612 02:05:03.960 --> 02:05:04.520 They were old. 2613 02:05:05.880 --> 02:05:08.000 They were trying to get everybody out, Get him out, 2614 02:05:08.000 --> 02:05:11.000 get him out. Julianna was calling me. He was paying 2615 02:05:11.000 --> 02:05:14.159 the ass. He always wanted his commissioner to be with him, 2616 02:05:14.239 --> 02:05:17.520 you know. And I was there and I missed him 2617 02:05:17.640 --> 02:05:19.520 on West Street and I could open them up on 2618 02:05:19.760 --> 02:05:23.000 West Broadway, and uh, I left, and but all of 2619 02:05:23.079 --> 02:05:25.279 those guys got out of the lobby, you know, and 2620 02:05:25.399 --> 02:05:28.079 went across the street. And then uh, you know, the 2621 02:05:28.159 --> 02:05:32.720 South Tower fell and then the North tewl fell first, Yes, 2622 02:05:33.640 --> 02:05:37.039 north Town fell, No, South TELI fell then, yeah, and 2623 02:05:37.119 --> 02:05:41.239 then Pete moved everybody north and Pete and uh Fian 2624 02:05:41.359 --> 02:05:44.880 stayed and then uh, they got killed when Northel fell. 2625 02:05:45.640 --> 02:05:47.479 So yeah, but all those people that I was with, 2626 02:05:47.760 --> 02:05:51.680 I didn't. I never had that level of the next 2627 02:05:51.800 --> 02:05:55.319 level of guilty guilt survive with a bunch of guys 2628 02:05:55.359 --> 02:05:57.279 and you're the only one that survived, Like I saw that, 2629 02:05:57.800 --> 02:06:00.359 but one of the fireman. That's just horrible to to 2630 02:06:00.520 --> 02:06:02.960 live with that, you know, because you're always second guessing yourself. 2631 02:06:03.039 --> 02:06:04.600 And I never had that. 2632 02:06:04.720 --> 02:06:08.239 I never had those feelings of anything that I did 2633 02:06:08.840 --> 02:06:13.239 was you know, hurt, you know anyway, you know, I 2634 02:06:13.359 --> 02:06:15.239 got you the ship Sandwich. 2635 02:06:15.720 --> 02:06:19.960 Yeah, that sums it up and just never gets twenty 2636 02:06:20.000 --> 02:06:22.399 something years, it's still is not easy. Somebody worked the 2637 02:06:22.479 --> 02:06:23.119 mutual for me. 2638 02:06:23.279 --> 02:06:25.880 It took my overtime actually, and he died on an 2639 02:06:26.000 --> 02:06:27.520 to eleven, so I dealt with that for a while. 2640 02:06:27.600 --> 02:06:30.359 So I know what that ship sandwich. Yeah, and it's 2641 02:06:30.439 --> 02:06:31.800 it's this time of year every year. 2642 02:06:32.279 --> 02:06:33.800 Yeah, it just doesn't anybody. 2643 02:06:33.840 --> 02:06:35.920 You know, you seem you know, you're you seem tense. 2644 02:06:35.960 --> 02:06:38.479 You see this and they say, oh jees it's August first, 2645 02:06:38.520 --> 02:06:40.760 you know. You know, it just comes every year. 2646 02:06:40.880 --> 02:06:41.000 You know. 2647 02:06:41.600 --> 02:06:43.720 I go to the ceremony every year, and I stand 2648 02:06:43.800 --> 02:06:47.720 there and watch these phony politicians and I wish I 2649 02:06:47.760 --> 02:06:49.720 could get a bag over their heads and choke. 2650 02:06:49.640 --> 02:06:53.199 Them and hold back hold. 2651 02:06:54.720 --> 02:06:56.279 Really, I don't get it. 2652 02:06:56.760 --> 02:07:00.319 I love it, but I mean, you know, some of them, 2653 02:07:00.479 --> 02:07:03.479 uh it's an They respect the guys, so they come. 2654 02:07:03.560 --> 02:07:06.000 So that's a good thing. You know. See the President 2655 02:07:06.000 --> 02:07:07.800 of the United States say, that's that's a big deal. 2656 02:07:08.359 --> 02:07:11.439 That's to honor the families, you know, so that's important, 2657 02:07:11.479 --> 02:07:11.640 you know. 2658 02:07:12.359 --> 02:07:14.800 But anyway, so you know what you tell you, brother, 2659 02:07:14.960 --> 02:07:17.159 he's wrong for telling you not to come on this 2660 02:07:17.239 --> 02:07:17.880 show to today. 2661 02:07:18.600 --> 02:07:19.960 I thought you were going to have a good time. 2662 02:07:20.079 --> 02:07:24.479 Someone you know, he'll be He's probably plastered by now 2663 02:07:25.159 --> 02:07:25.760 not for him. 2664 02:07:26.199 --> 02:07:27.399 Yeah, because he was waiting. 2665 02:07:28.319 --> 02:07:34.119 I app I'll give you one more listen. As as 2666 02:07:34.199 --> 02:07:36.840 I told you, I appreciate you. I know it wasn't 2667 02:07:36.840 --> 02:07:39.079 going to be easy for you. And you know you 2668 02:07:39.199 --> 02:07:43.000 were answered every question that uh we we brought up 2669 02:07:43.039 --> 02:07:45.720 to you, so uh you know, good and bad, you 2670 02:07:45.800 --> 02:07:47.760 know what I mean. So I appreciate that. That's I 2671 02:07:47.840 --> 02:07:48.600 know as well. 2672 02:07:48.640 --> 02:07:52.720 I appreciate you coming on and just you know, there's. 2673 02:07:52.560 --> 02:07:56.079 No easy answers to some stuff, but nobody's gonna go 2674 02:07:56.439 --> 02:07:56.600 with you. 2675 02:07:56.760 --> 02:07:58.880 That's what That's why we wanted to spelled a lot 2676 02:07:58.960 --> 02:08:01.239 of myths out there, all be from the brothers to 2677 02:08:01.359 --> 02:08:05.000 get Let the facts get yeah. 2678 02:08:07.199 --> 02:08:08.239 Man, just the facts man. 2679 02:08:08.359 --> 02:08:12.079 Excellent. Yeah, everybody happy. I just appreciate it. I enjoyed 2680 02:08:12.119 --> 02:08:13.319 the show. I appreciate the end. 2681 02:08:13.359 --> 02:08:14.960 That's what we wanted you to do, is to come on, 2682 02:08:15.359 --> 02:08:17.800 tell your side of the story. Listen to your your 2683 02:08:17.840 --> 02:08:20.760 life story. You had a great career and uh, like 2684 02:08:20.880 --> 02:08:23.720 you said, you look like Walter Cronkite. Man, that's really crazy. 2685 02:08:23.800 --> 02:08:26.880 Well, Louie Bunker was the other name that was. 2686 02:08:28.520 --> 02:08:36.600 Get me. I appreciate your positive comments with the other guy. 2687 02:08:36.720 --> 02:08:39.399 He's obvious conflicts of interest. I would expect. 2688 02:08:43.119 --> 02:08:50.920 You might be getting another call tomorrow morning, right out loud. 2689 02:08:52.399 --> 02:08:54.960 I listened. I also, I also appreciate it putting up 2690 02:08:55.000 --> 02:08:57.800 with the shaky phone like he's been probably like yeah, 2691 02:09:00.119 --> 02:09:04.359 in front of it. So it's my fault. He had 2692 02:09:04.359 --> 02:09:05.279 a hot time with the computer. 2693 02:09:05.359 --> 02:09:07.239 I'm a dinosaur technology. 2694 02:09:07.560 --> 02:09:08.239 But you did find it. 2695 02:09:08.319 --> 02:09:11.000 No great, he looks smart. With all those books in 2696 02:09:11.039 --> 02:09:11.520 the back. 2697 02:09:13.279 --> 02:09:14.800 I got to find out whose books they are? 2698 02:09:16.079 --> 02:09:17.159 Whose office are you using this? 2699 02:09:17.279 --> 02:09:19.439 Somebody old Juliani's books on it. 2700 02:09:20.760 --> 02:09:23.199 There was a joke with Juliani when they said that 2701 02:09:23.840 --> 02:09:26.680 a book that he did not sign would be more valuable. 2702 02:09:26.800 --> 02:09:32.039 Because yes, now you got to make me out get 2703 02:09:32.119 --> 02:09:33.760 your book. I gotta read your book. 2704 02:09:34.479 --> 02:09:38.119 Loud, you guys, if you guys could push one book, 2705 02:09:38.159 --> 02:09:40.279 I'm telling you this book. 2706 02:09:40.920 --> 02:09:42.520 Where the hell is that one? 2707 02:09:43.079 --> 02:09:43.960 Is it the chief book? 2708 02:09:44.479 --> 02:09:44.520 No? 2709 02:09:44.840 --> 02:09:46.199 No, I don't like ade. 2710 02:09:46.359 --> 02:09:48.680 I got my phone on top of it. I got, oh, yeah, 2711 02:09:49.279 --> 02:09:52.880 that's hash Hagens that that book is the best. 2712 02:09:53.000 --> 02:09:54.680 That is not Paul Hashagen's book. 2713 02:09:54.920 --> 02:09:58.920 Yes, well his book. I mean there's a great story 2714 02:09:59.000 --> 02:10:01.439 with that. When you guys are old enough back in 2715 02:10:01.920 --> 02:10:05.239 a long time ago in the union hired a company 2716 02:10:05.319 --> 02:10:08.479 to do a yearbook. Right, So they go around and 2717 02:10:08.520 --> 02:10:11.039 they start trying to take pictures at the firehouses, and 2718 02:10:11.159 --> 02:10:14.279 they went broke because it's impossible to get the guy. 2719 02:10:14.359 --> 02:10:16.319 You know, you tell the guys in too eighty eight, 2720 02:10:16.439 --> 02:10:19.600 you know, come to the you know, the firehouse on 2721 02:10:19.720 --> 02:10:21.960 Thursday at two o'clock, going to take pictures. So now 2722 02:10:22.000 --> 02:10:24.479 the guy sends a photographer there. Half the guys show 2723 02:10:24.560 --> 02:10:26.119 up at two, Half the guys show up. 2724 02:10:26.079 --> 02:10:29.039 At four to see the stupid pictures I have of 2725 02:10:29.279 --> 02:10:32.800 guys before that picture was taken, of what was of 2726 02:10:32.920 --> 02:10:33.640 what was going on. 2727 02:10:34.079 --> 02:10:37.720 Yes, it was probably a great day. They turned it 2728 02:10:37.760 --> 02:10:46.079 into probably a great day. Absolutely make good decisions, okay, 2729 02:10:46.399 --> 02:10:50.079 so good choices. So the union, the union, the company 2730 02:10:50.119 --> 02:10:50.880 goes out of business. 2731 02:10:50.920 --> 02:10:53.079 A lot of guys had given like I forget the number, 2732 02:10:53.159 --> 02:10:56.000 maybe it was a seven dollars depositive. Well, for years 2733 02:10:56.079 --> 02:10:58.720 in the union, the guys at every union meaning somebody 2734 02:10:58.760 --> 02:11:02.840 would say, that's seven dollars. I never got my seven 2735 02:11:02.920 --> 02:11:05.520 dollars back. The guys would be bitching about that seven 2736 02:11:05.600 --> 02:11:08.000 dollars for years and years and years. So now I'm 2737 02:11:08.039 --> 02:11:10.039 in the union, I said, I'm going to do the yearbook. 2738 02:11:10.319 --> 02:11:13.600 So I start the process, right, I'm gonna loan money 2739 02:11:13.680 --> 02:11:15.800 from the union that we did to put out the money, 2740 02:11:16.039 --> 02:11:18.039 so then they get to be commissioner. So I said 2741 02:11:18.079 --> 02:11:19.960 to the guys in the union, you want to do this? 2742 02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:24.399 You know, every one of them said, I'm not doing this. 2743 02:11:24.880 --> 02:11:27.680 So then I did it as commissioner. This book is 2744 02:11:27.760 --> 02:11:31.479 the best I'm talking. It has a picture of thousands 2745 02:11:31.560 --> 02:11:35.439 of guys, and most of the guys showed. 2746 02:11:35.199 --> 02:11:38.039 Up, you know whoever showed up anyway, Yes, yes, most 2747 02:11:38.079 --> 02:11:38.920 of the guys showed up. 2748 02:11:38.920 --> 02:11:41.960 And that said a lot about it, and Paul did 2749 02:11:42.000 --> 02:11:45.520 a history of it. It just loaded usself. Just a great, 2750 02:11:45.560 --> 02:11:47.920 great book. I don't think it's in print anymore, but 2751 02:11:48.079 --> 02:11:50.159 it's really a terrific and it talks about all of 2752 02:11:50.479 --> 02:11:52.840 everything that we did for the department and all the 2753 02:11:52.880 --> 02:11:56.399 accomplishments and and what people before us did, the O'Hagan's 2754 02:11:56.399 --> 02:11:58.960 of the world. It's a really great hit. Paul did 2755 02:11:59.000 --> 02:11:59.520 a great job. 2756 02:12:00.079 --> 02:12:02.119 Hey, Tom, I gotta ask you a quick question because 2757 02:12:02.319 --> 02:12:04.159 one of the guys just texted me and I was 2758 02:12:04.199 --> 02:12:06.359 in two ninety one oh three for a while and 2759 02:12:07.079 --> 02:12:09.319 they were saying that there there was a scenario I 2760 02:12:09.359 --> 02:12:12.760 guess with Timmy Stackpole his first tour back or something 2761 02:12:12.880 --> 02:12:16.600 like that, and the guys were like, yeah, we almost 2762 02:12:16.680 --> 02:12:18.560 killed him. I don't know what happened. The rig was 2763 02:12:18.600 --> 02:12:21.039 pulling out and something happened. Do you remember that? Do 2764 02:12:21.079 --> 02:12:21.439 you remember? 2765 02:12:22.520 --> 02:12:24.680 First of all, I mean, I can talk about Stackpole 2766 02:12:25.039 --> 02:12:28.800 for another hour. So he finally comes back to work, 2767 02:12:28.920 --> 02:12:32.600 which after September eleventh, I regretted him coming back to work, 2768 02:12:32.640 --> 02:12:34.960 but Tara says, I couldn't have stopped him and everything. 2769 02:12:35.079 --> 02:12:36.960 They had a special boot made for him and everything. 2770 02:12:37.159 --> 02:12:39.479 So I think it's a Sunday in July or June. 2771 02:12:40.000 --> 02:12:43.439 So I go out there and I'm riding the rig right, 2772 02:12:43.520 --> 02:12:47.079 I'm in like the seat behind you, officer. So they're 2773 02:12:47.079 --> 02:12:50.359 going through red lights on a run. I said to 2774 02:12:50.439 --> 02:12:56.359 them like, I'm having commissioner, I'm sitting in the rig. 2775 02:12:56.960 --> 02:12:59.640 You guys don't even think you should go by the rules, 2776 02:13:00.199 --> 02:13:02.760 even with the commissioner on the truck. And they just 2777 02:13:02.840 --> 02:13:05.720 looked at me like I was from another planet. I'll 2778 02:13:05.760 --> 02:13:08.840 never forget it. And then and after they they had 2779 02:13:08.920 --> 02:13:12.560 we had that horrible fire. Uh, what the hell was 2780 02:13:12.600 --> 02:13:16.399 the one where they they two ninety was using uh 2781 02:13:16.560 --> 02:13:21.399 INChO three quarters, Yeah, Vandalia. So now carothers wanted to 2782 02:13:21.520 --> 02:13:24.439 fire all and I'm using inch and three quarters. And 2783 02:13:24.560 --> 02:13:26.479 I said to him, these are the guys. They've been 2784 02:13:26.560 --> 02:13:29.039 using inch and three quarters since I came on the job. 2785 02:13:29.199 --> 02:13:32.199 I always heard about them violating all the rules using 2786 02:13:32.239 --> 02:13:34.720 into three borders. I said, none of the chiefs noticed 2787 02:13:35.000 --> 02:13:37.479 they've been using into three quarters the last twenty years, 2788 02:13:38.039 --> 02:13:40.439 you know. So that was the stuff they used. 2789 02:13:40.279 --> 02:13:41.079 To drive me crazy. 2790 02:13:41.079 --> 02:13:43.560 And I wanted to lifting the chiefs, not the guys, 2791 02:13:44.039 --> 02:13:46.600 not the I thought. I thought the fire fighters in 2792 02:13:46.720 --> 02:13:49.199 two ninety one or three were crazy, but good they were. 2793 02:13:49.520 --> 02:13:52.199 They were my kind of crazy. I loved the guys 2794 02:13:52.279 --> 02:13:54.880 that were crazy, but I mean, you gotta you gotta 2795 02:13:55.000 --> 02:13:57.039 temper it with safety. 2796 02:13:56.720 --> 02:13:58.439 Too, you know about the guys that didn't do bi 2797 02:13:58.640 --> 02:13:59.880 you like, get anything for those guys. 2798 02:14:01.319 --> 02:14:06.439 I always did commission I. 2799 02:14:08.680 --> 02:14:11.640 Always, I mean, I was one of them as a firefighter. 2800 02:14:11.960 --> 02:14:14.199 But then when you be commissioner, you've got to try 2801 02:14:14.279 --> 02:14:17.840 to fix it. You know, There's that there's that difference. 2802 02:14:17.920 --> 02:14:21.560 You know, remember sitting you know, instead of we we'd 2803 02:14:21.600 --> 02:14:25.199 been sitting in our district. The worst buildings would the 2804 02:14:25.479 --> 02:14:27.640 the city owned. So it wasn't really a lot of. 2805 02:14:27.960 --> 02:14:29.600 Right, and you can never write them anyway, right, you 2806 02:14:29.720 --> 02:14:31.119 never ordered anything anyone. 2807 02:14:30.920 --> 02:14:34.359 Talk about inspection. How about the Father's Day fire? Those 2808 02:14:34.439 --> 02:14:37.640 guys died that day because that was a hardware supply. 2809 02:14:37.880 --> 02:14:41.399 That wasn't a hardware store. The people who are inspecting 2810 02:14:41.479 --> 02:14:44.359 that building and doing building inspection didn't notice that that 2811 02:14:44.600 --> 02:14:47.720 was a hardware supply. That's why I exploded like that. 2812 02:14:47.960 --> 02:14:50.000 You know what that guess heater went or whatever? 2813 02:14:50.239 --> 02:14:50.399 You know. 2814 02:14:50.560 --> 02:14:53.159 So these are the things that we joke about. Fire 2815 02:14:54.119 --> 02:14:57.359 prevention and inspection and stuff like that. When you're the boss, 2816 02:14:57.800 --> 02:14:59.880 you know, it's like being a parent. You're trying to 2817 02:15:00.039 --> 02:15:03.560 keep everybody alive. You can't keep everybody alive. If everybody 2818 02:15:03.640 --> 02:15:07.880 thinks it's okay for for me firefighter Tom von Essen 2819 02:15:07.920 --> 02:15:10.720 to be laughing about building inspect it's not okay for 2820 02:15:12.399 --> 02:15:12.960 laughing about it. 2821 02:15:13.399 --> 02:15:16.359 Right, Hey, I got a question for you, a guy 2822 02:15:16.399 --> 02:15:20.359 who's fucking busting my balls and thinks we didn't ask 2823 02:15:20.439 --> 02:15:23.600 any tough questions. How did Building seven burned down? Was 2824 02:15:23.680 --> 02:15:24.880 it the OEM office? 2825 02:15:24.960 --> 02:15:26.359 I don't even know what the funk that means, why 2826 02:15:26.399 --> 02:15:27.439 do you even answer that question? 2827 02:15:28.319 --> 02:15:29.319 Well? Irritating me? 2828 02:15:29.520 --> 02:15:31.319 Wait wait, wait no, So there was a story to 2829 02:15:31.399 --> 02:15:34.119 that one. So it wasn't the OEM office. From what 2830 02:15:34.279 --> 02:15:37.720 they said later on, there was uh Secret Service or 2831 02:15:37.840 --> 02:15:42.079 FBI if somebody had auxiliary tanks there and that they 2832 02:15:42.600 --> 02:15:45.720 they caused the building to explode and burn down or whatever. 2833 02:15:46.039 --> 02:15:49.640 But the decision, right, the right decision I think was 2834 02:15:49.760 --> 02:15:53.439 made that day that building. I came out and I 2835 02:15:53.520 --> 02:16:00.079 went in involved, right, involved, Yeah, and they decided, the 2836 02:16:00.199 --> 02:16:04.079 chiefs decided everybody was out. The super that building made 2837 02:16:04.079 --> 02:16:06.520 a decision early on to evacuate that building. I give 2838 02:16:06.560 --> 02:16:09.039 him a lot of credit. He had the courage to 2839 02:16:09.640 --> 02:16:11.560 OEM was in there. We couldn't even get in there, 2840 02:16:11.600 --> 02:16:14.399 to the OEM office. He made the right decision. Whoever 2841 02:16:14.840 --> 02:16:18.159 made it to evacuate that it's a conspiracy theory this thing. 2842 02:16:18.640 --> 02:16:20.920 Yeah, this guy's asking ask a tough question. 2843 02:16:21.199 --> 02:16:22.359 That's the question question. 2844 02:16:22.720 --> 02:16:23.560 That's the one he asked. 2845 02:16:23.600 --> 02:16:24.319 What's the matter with you? 2846 02:16:24.520 --> 02:16:26.199 Did I tell you to stop reading the chat? 2847 02:16:26.359 --> 02:16:28.000 I should stop, right, I should stop. 2848 02:16:29.119 --> 02:16:30.680 I want to choke the ship out of this guy. 2849 02:16:30.960 --> 02:16:32.399 That's not that's Tom. 2850 02:16:32.559 --> 02:16:36.079 I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you answer questions. 2851 02:16:37.360 --> 02:16:40.680 In the world, stop reading the chat, get me your 2852 02:16:40.760 --> 02:16:41.600 health and safety tips. 2853 02:16:42.360 --> 02:16:44.680 All right? Well, wait, we gotta do with health and safety. 2854 02:16:47.239 --> 02:16:47.799 We picked out. 2855 02:16:49.799 --> 02:16:52.120 The First Responder Center for Excellence is a not for 2856 02:16:52.239 --> 02:16:55.719 profit organization dedicated to protecting the lives and livelihoods of 2857 02:16:55.920 --> 02:16:59.399 first responders. Their education and research initiatives aim to bring 2858 02:16:59.520 --> 02:17:03.639 greater away aareness and understanding the challenges to help safety 2859 02:17:03.760 --> 02:17:06.959 and well being of firefighters, EMS personnel, and other first 2860 02:17:06.959 --> 02:17:10.120 responders too. They are an affiliate of the National Fallen 2861 02:17:10.280 --> 02:17:11.559 Firefighter Foundation. 2862 02:17:13.360 --> 02:17:17.040 All Right, tonight's health and safety tip is never store 2863 02:17:17.079 --> 02:17:20.440 your bunkie gear inside of your car or at home. 2864 02:17:20.479 --> 02:17:24.239 When bunky gear must be transported, use a gearbag or 2865 02:17:24.280 --> 02:17:27.319 a clear path plastic bag. I can't tell you how 2866 02:17:27.319 --> 02:17:30.319 many guys I see going on details just throwing their 2867 02:17:30.360 --> 02:17:32.000 ship in the car man, and then they got their 2868 02:17:32.159 --> 02:17:36.000 kids freaking cost seat right next to it. BROB, don't 2869 02:17:36.000 --> 02:17:38.920 be silly, don't be putting no contaminated ship. You call 2870 02:17:39.000 --> 02:17:40.840 where your kids are, Don't be bringing it home to 2871 02:17:40.879 --> 02:17:43.159 your kids. You know what I'm saying to thank you 2872 02:17:43.280 --> 02:17:45.399 very much again, we appreciate it, all right? 2873 02:17:45.520 --> 02:17:46.680 I'm gonna go have a scotch. 2874 02:17:46.959 --> 02:17:47.959 Go ahead, you know what, you can. 2875 02:17:47.920 --> 02:17:49.399 Tell you brother he's wrong. 2876 02:17:54.159 --> 02:17:55.079 What's your brother's David? 2877 02:17:55.120 --> 02:17:58.399 Yet? I forget We're just said, Roddy, Roddy, Roddy, do 2878 02:17:58.520 --> 02:18:01.879 me a favor? Fuck it? Oh, look it up. 2879 02:18:02.719 --> 02:18:04.159 Oh you're gonna be getting a call tomorrow. 2880 02:18:04.200 --> 02:18:05.799 Well yeah, what was it about that thing? 2881 02:18:06.200 --> 02:18:10.319 You know you'll be like, yeah, we'll see. 2882 02:18:10.479 --> 02:18:13.079 Dis for coming on. What do we got next Thursday? 2883 02:18:13.200 --> 02:18:14.600 Roof You know, I don't even know. 2884 02:18:14.799 --> 02:18:17.760 I don't even care this, but who cares? Whatever? Nobody 2885 02:18:18.799 --> 02:18:20.920 to stop it? Then disould tell us your side of 2886 02:18:20.959 --> 02:18:21.399 the story. 2887 02:18:21.559 --> 02:18:23.959 Next Thursday is Chief Downy from Miami. 2888 02:18:24.040 --> 02:18:27.719 Deed, he signed off already, he signed off. 2889 02:18:28.520 --> 02:18:29.040 Have a scotch? 2890 02:18:30.239 --> 02:18:33.040 Is all right? Guys, We will see you next Thursday. 2891 02:18:33.200 --> 02:18:37.319 Until then, stay long ago and Tuesday, look out for 2892 02:18:37.440 --> 02:18:38.680 a cup of joy with Fago. 2893 02:18:39.280 --> 02:18:41.639 You know what you gotta remember. We'll see it the 2894 02:18:41.680 --> 02:18:42.440 big one, everybody. 2895 02:18:42.520 --> 02:18:44.120 That was a good show, guys, that was a good show. 2896 02:18:44.200 --> 02:18:46.159 Great show. All right, guys, have a great night. Real 2897 02:18:46.200 --> 02:18:46.440 heavy