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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Chris, I'm Lorenzo.

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<v Speaker 1>And Lorenzo, we're continuing this discussion that we started last

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<v Speaker 1>Monday on the kind of the backlog of questions that

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<v Speaker 1>we have from our listeners on things that were important

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<v Speaker 1>to them that they reached out, and you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>are kind of going through that list and kind of

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<v Speaker 1>airing it all out and answering the questions as best

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<v Speaker 1>as we can, and we we typically do this throughout

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<v Speaker 1>the year and answer questions that listeners send in if

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<v Speaker 1>if they are questions about a person's you know, personal

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<v Speaker 1>experience or something they need advice on. Right now, these

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<v Speaker 1>are more questions that are not related to an individual person,

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<v Speaker 1>but more related to, you know, what what is leadership

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<v Speaker 1>going to be looking like or what is important to

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<v Speaker 1>these particular listeners from a leadership standpoint. And we started

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<v Speaker 1>it last Monday, We're continuing this Monday, and it'll go

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<v Speaker 1>for the about a total of five episodes. The first

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<v Speaker 1>question I want to answer from our listeners is how

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<v Speaker 1>can leaders build high performing teams when it seems like

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<v Speaker 1>there's constant talent shortages and skill gaps? And I thought

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<v Speaker 1>that was an interesting one because I know organizations who

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like they are always trying to deal with

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<v Speaker 1>a talent shortage or a skill gap, and I know

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<v Speaker 1>other organizations in the same industry that don't seem to

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<v Speaker 1>suffer from it or don't seem to have those impacted

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<v Speaker 1>as much. So there's got to be differences in what

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing, but they may not always be clear looking

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<v Speaker 1>in from the outside.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's it's a great kind of topic

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<v Speaker 2>in question because it's such an important thing that's happening

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<v Speaker 2>right now. Around the speed of which we're seeing in

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<v Speaker 2>different industries in different places with technology, with AI, with

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<v Speaker 2>whatever is causing this kind of new and very quickly

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<v Speaker 2>quick moving approach to how we're getting work done. And

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<v Speaker 2>with that comes the possibility that they're going to get

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<v Speaker 2>some skill gaps things that your people and the teams

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<v Speaker 2>are not, you know, they maybe they don't know today

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<v Speaker 2>or they're learning kind of as things are coming out,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're seeing this across all different industries, and so

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<v Speaker 2>the ability of the leader to peek around the corner

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<v Speaker 2>to see what's going on, to be able to predict

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<v Speaker 2>to a degree where things are going. What are you

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<v Speaker 2>seeing in your industry from the organizations and the idea

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<v Speaker 2>makers that are kind of on the razor's edge of it,

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<v Speaker 2>the ones that are really pushing a different approach, a

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<v Speaker 2>different take, They're utilizing new technologies, they're they're kind of, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just shaking up the norms. If you're not

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<v Speaker 2>aware of that and watching that and then thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>if we go down this way or if we go

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<v Speaker 2>down this route, how can I best prepare my team

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<v Speaker 2>for that, That's where I think you start to see

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<v Speaker 2>this massive skill gap continue to grow over time. And

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<v Speaker 2>that is definitely a part of leadership because even if

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<v Speaker 2>you're not necessarily in the same role that you have today,

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<v Speaker 2>in two years or five years, if you're in that

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<v Speaker 2>same industry, if you're doing that same level of work,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're elevating yourself in your own career, you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to have larger responsibilities. You're going to have larger influences

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<v Speaker 2>on the decisions that are being made down the road here.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you can get ahead of it now and

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<v Speaker 2>think about how are you how are you making sure

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<v Speaker 2>that you're building skill with your team and that you're

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<v Speaker 2>building the talent that you need while also being aware

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<v Speaker 2>of what talent is out there. If you're not doing that,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to find yourself in a really tough spot

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<v Speaker 2>being behind and not having a you know, an attractable

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<v Speaker 2>offer or value proposition to bring people to your team

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<v Speaker 2>or your organization.

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<v Speaker 1>Right right. I look at companies when it comes to this,

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<v Speaker 1>and they kind of fall in three different categories, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you don't necessarily have to be in the

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<v Speaker 1>top category, but you really can't be in the bottom category, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>And this is that there are companies who are creating this.

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<v Speaker 1>They're they're the ones who are driving what skills are

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<v Speaker 1>going to be needed in the future. They're the companies

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<v Speaker 1>that they they have first grabs at who that talent

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<v Speaker 1>is because they're the ones creating the things that need

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<v Speaker 1>that talent to begin with. And so it is what

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<v Speaker 1>it is. There's not much you can do to be

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<v Speaker 1>in that group if you if your your role and

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<v Speaker 1>your industry is not one that creates those things. But

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<v Speaker 1>then there's the back group, the one you know, leading

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<v Speaker 1>up the rear, where they don't even know what those

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<v Speaker 1>skills are, they don't even know what those trends are,

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<v Speaker 1>and so all the decisions they are making with regard

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<v Speaker 1>to talent and hiring and recruiting, and you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>lessening skill gaps are all done from a reactive standpoint.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, let's let's address a skill gap that's already there.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's address a talent shortage that's already there. We're not

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<v Speaker 1>we're not doing well here. We need to hire some

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<v Speaker 1>people who can have these skills. It's like, if that's

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<v Speaker 1>the way you go about this, you're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>fighting a lo using battle that will become harder and

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<v Speaker 1>harder to play as time goes on. The sweet spot

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<v Speaker 1>for a lot of organizations and a lot of teams

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<v Speaker 1>is the middle ground, which is you know that you're

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<v Speaker 1>not defining where things are going. You know that you

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<v Speaker 1>that you don't have a lot of influence on what

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<v Speaker 1>skills will be needed from a technological standpoint or or

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<v Speaker 1>a or an industry standpoint. But you know enough about

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<v Speaker 1>the industry, and you know enough about who those top

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<v Speaker 1>players are and what they're doing, and you and you

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<v Speaker 1>kind of keeping abreast of what they're doing to the

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<v Speaker 1>point where when when you see something coming, you can

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<v Speaker 1>start reacting to it immediately. You can start, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>reaching out and hiring for those skills, you know, looking

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<v Speaker 1>for the talent in places where other people aren't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>looking yet because they don't have that skill necessarily on

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<v Speaker 1>their radar yet. You know, that's the place that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of organizations should be at, because that's how you

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<v Speaker 1>get talent before it becomes so such in short supply

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<v Speaker 1>that you end up, you know, with with people who

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<v Speaker 1>don't actually have the skills necessary to to do a thing. So,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, find a way to get into that middle ground,

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<v Speaker 1>even if you can't necessarily define the industry. The next

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<v Speaker 1>question I want to answer for our listeners relates to

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<v Speaker 1>the importance of storytelling. I like this question a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>We've gotten something similar to this from probably half a

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<v Speaker 1>dozen people over the over the last couple of years

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<v Speaker 1>on why storytelling is important. You know, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that I did when I got my start in

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<v Speaker 1>leadership was around storytelling and the importance of storytelling. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it is a I think it's an invaluable skill

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<v Speaker 1>to have as a leader, is the ability to tell stories.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think it's it's still just as important today

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<v Speaker 1>as it was before that that level of necessity from

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<v Speaker 1>a leadership standpoint to be able to do this is

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<v Speaker 1>not going away, it's just getting stronger. Especially in the

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<v Speaker 1>era of you know, leading remote teams and having to

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<v Speaker 1>find ways of connecting with your people. Storytelling is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the best ways to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think that there's

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<v Speaker 2>such a huge element in the idea of storytelling, and

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<v Speaker 2>I tend to think about it around like professional leadership

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<v Speaker 2>testimony is kind of how I frame it because I

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<v Speaker 2>think that when you have leaders that are capable of

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<v Speaker 2>sharing a message and a vision through analogies, through personal experience,

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<v Speaker 2>through their own mistakes, like that, by definition, I think

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<v Speaker 2>is what we would say is like storytelling, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>not a story in the fact that it's like as

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<v Speaker 2>a fiction story, you know, it's just this ability to

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<v Speaker 2>grab people's attention, to bring them along on a journey

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<v Speaker 2>of maybe learning and discovery and help to say it's

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<v Speaker 2>not like a great storyteller makes you feel like it's

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<v Speaker 2>not just about like the thing that you're going through,

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<v Speaker 2>but that this is a thing that everyone goes through.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a thing that we've all had to learn,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, through From a leadership standpoint, they're great at

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<v Speaker 2>providing you with different ways of thinking about uh, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>a situation or a problem or an issue. And they're

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<v Speaker 2>really really good at considering the language that they use

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<v Speaker 2>and how they use it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I've I've had a great you know, honor of having

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<v Speaker 2>amazing leaders that were great storytellers over my entire career,

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<v Speaker 2>and and they just pull my attention. They they tell

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<v Speaker 2>me things in such a way that that I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like there's something to learn from that I want more.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to go deeper into whatever that analogy was

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<v Speaker 2>or that example was, or it helps me to reflect

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<v Speaker 2>on my own kind of learning and growth as a leader.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I've seen some not great storytellers, right, They're

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<v Speaker 2>all over the place, and it's hard to figure out,

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<v Speaker 2>like where are we going here and how are we

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<v Speaker 2>looping this back around to the theme or the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that we want people to walk away with. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>been so impactful for me as a leader that I

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<v Speaker 2>always start any type of strategy or meeting or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>time that I'm bringing leaders together, I always start with

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<v Speaker 2>the end in mind and think about, like when they

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<v Speaker 2>walk away from this, what do I want them to

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<v Speaker 2>feel and what do I want them to be thinking about?

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<v Speaker 2>And then how do I tell a story through all

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<v Speaker 2>of the things that we're going to do to get

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<v Speaker 2>them there. So I think it's such an important thing

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<v Speaker 2>that everybody talks about, we say on the surface, but

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<v Speaker 2>then when you start to ask people like, well, then

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<v Speaker 2>how do you tell a story? You know, like, how

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<v Speaker 2>do you do that? That's where it starts to get

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit shaky for a lot of people because

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<v Speaker 2>it takes a lot of thought and purpose to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of script those things. Over time, you get better at it,

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<v Speaker 2>you need to do less and less preparation. But initially

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<v Speaker 2>to become a great storyteller, you have to take the

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<v Speaker 2>time to learn how to actually you know, create eight

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<v Speaker 2>you know, impactful stories.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I agree, And you know, I look at this

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<v Speaker 1>from a standpoint of like, you know, my kids are

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<v Speaker 1>in elementary school and they you know, go through their

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<v Speaker 1>you know, reading in English classes. And if you think about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the the elements of a good story. There

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<v Speaker 1>the five elements of a good story are pretty largely

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<v Speaker 1>agreed upon in the area of education, and that is character, conflict, plot, setting,

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<v Speaker 1>and theme. So a good story has all of those things.

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<v Speaker 1>They have characters, which if you're a leader and you're

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<v Speaker 1>telling a story, you hopefully you are one of the

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<v Speaker 1>characters in the story because you're talking about from personal perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>but there are other people as well. There's a conflict,

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<v Speaker 1>there's there's something to overcome, something happens you have to overcome,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's where the leadership lesson comes from. There's a plot,

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<v Speaker 1>So this happened, then this, then this, then this. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a setting, so you have to kind of bring people

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<v Speaker 1>back to where you were at the time. How you know,

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<v Speaker 1>how old were you, Where in your career were you?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, how how many years into your career were you?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, what have you done? What had you done before?

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<v Speaker 1>The things that kind of of set the stage of

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<v Speaker 1>where of where you are. And then it has to

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<v Speaker 1>have a theme. And the theme basically is the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of the learning from it. What is the purpose of

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<v Speaker 1>telling the story. What are you trying to impart upon

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<v Speaker 1>the person that is listening to it? What is that theme?

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<v Speaker 1>And so a good storyteller understands that their stories have

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<v Speaker 1>all of those things. And I like what you said

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<v Speaker 1>about you know you become better at it over time.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the thing that makes you become better at

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<v Speaker 1>over time is you just have more things to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about like you have more experience, so you have more stories.

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<v Speaker 1>But there are a lot of leaders out there who

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<v Speaker 1>have a ton of experience, but they've never taken the

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<v Speaker 1>time to put that experience in the format of a

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<v Speaker 1>story that can be used to, you know, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>help the next generation of leaders, or to or to

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<v Speaker 1>help you know, train or coach or or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>impart a learning on somebody who's having a difficult time.

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<v Speaker 1>They have those stories, they almost don't know they have them,

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<v Speaker 1>or they have never you know, kind of figured out

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<v Speaker 1>how to say that in a way that that is impactful,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they kind of live in their own head

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<v Speaker 1>and that's a waste. So if you're a leader, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and you don't have this ability or you don't feel comfortable,

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<v Speaker 1>start looking at some very short stories and what they

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<v Speaker 1>have in them, and start thinking about things that have

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<v Speaker 1>happened to you and how you can tell them in

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<v Speaker 1>a story that is a short anecdote or something that

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<v Speaker 1>includes character, conflict, plot setting, and theme, so that you

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<v Speaker 1>can kind of impart the knowledge onto the you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the people that you're interrusted with leading. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>go over one more question in this episode before we

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<v Speaker 1>end but first I want to go up toward one

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<v Speaker 1>of our sponsors. All Right, the last question I want

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<v Speaker 1>to answer on this episode revolves around data and analytics.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there are a lot of people out there

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<v Speaker 1>who are very data driven, They're very analytics driven, and

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of people out there who are

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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of driven by the human aspect of

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<v Speaker 1>the decision making process. And I think the the the

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<v Speaker 1>ways that leaders fail are in only looking at one

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<v Speaker 1>or the of those and not taking into account both.

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<v Speaker 1>And so the question that I kind of want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about here that we've gotten from several people is

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<v Speaker 1>there are people feeling frustrated that decisions seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>being made by leaders all you know, from a human

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<v Speaker 1>aspect side of things, without taking into account actual data

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<v Speaker 1>and analytics, and that can lead to you know, poor outcomes.

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<v Speaker 1>But they don't want to go the opposite route by

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<v Speaker 1>you know, having the data and the analytics come in

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<v Speaker 1>there and all of a sudden it throws out the

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<v Speaker 1>human aspect of it too. And that's a very real fear.

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<v Speaker 1>It can happen in organizations that see the poor outcomes

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<v Speaker 1>of making decisions from one side or the other. And

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<v Speaker 1>then because we are natural pendulum swingers as as a species,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we we tend to swing wide the other

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<v Speaker 1>way instead of getting it right in the middle. And

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<v Speaker 1>a big failure could be, you know, seeing the failures

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<v Speaker 1>from only seeing one side of that and then switching

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<v Speaker 1>all to the other side and using that first element.

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<v Speaker 1>I think they're both important.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is one of the places where I'm actually

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<v Speaker 2>okay with using the word balance. I think sometimes I

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<v Speaker 2>challenge that because it's kind of like these things are

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<v Speaker 2>opposing forces. But and again I don't think that these

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<v Speaker 2>things are opposing forces in the act of like the

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<v Speaker 2>human aspect of decision making and data and analytics. But

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<v Speaker 2>there is a balance of the two that you need,

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<v Speaker 2>and whether you call that EQ and IQ or whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>it might be, like, there's a piece of this where

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<v Speaker 2>you need data and analytics and it is the ultimate

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<v Speaker 2>measurement of the outputs of what you are doing, Like

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<v Speaker 2>are we doing the things to impact an actual outcome?

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<v Speaker 2>At some point you need to have that information. The

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<v Speaker 2>human aspect, in my mind of that is understanding that

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<v Speaker 2>there are behaviors and there are approaches that are more

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<v Speaker 2>likely to get you the data and the analytics that

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<v Speaker 2>you are looking for and taking into account that there

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<v Speaker 2>are many times with the data and the analytics on

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<v Speaker 2>paper may seem like they are correlated in a positive way,

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<v Speaker 2>but in reality they are two sides of the spectrum

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<v Speaker 2>here and going, you know, like focusing too heavily on

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<v Speaker 2>one of them will have an impact on the other ones.

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<v Speaker 2>And the human part of that is understanding where and

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<v Speaker 2>how do we lean into different aspects of the data

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<v Speaker 2>and analytics to get the information that we need to

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<v Speaker 2>help us to build the strategies versus sometimes what I

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<v Speaker 2>think we only look at data analytics and then we

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<v Speaker 2>make assumptions about some of the human aspects of decisions

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<v Speaker 2>that were made without spending any time understanding why those

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<v Speaker 2>decisions were made or what other factors might have been

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<v Speaker 2>involved in those decisions. So, you know, I think leaders

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<v Speaker 2>really really have to become more comfortable and more competent

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<v Speaker 2>with both of those things. You have to understand the

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<v Speaker 2>data and the analytics because that's going to be the

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<v Speaker 2>ultimate way of measuring the work that you're doing. But

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<v Speaker 2>you have to be present and you have to be

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<v Speaker 2>available to be able to spend time seeing the human

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<v Speaker 2>aspects of decision making that are happening that can be

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<v Speaker 2>discussed in either adjusted or you can educate people, or

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<v Speaker 2>you can help to connect the dots between the behavior

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<v Speaker 2>and the data and the analytics. So it's one of

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<v Speaker 2>those things where you really have to have both, and

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<v Speaker 2>as a leader, I think you have to have a

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<v Speaker 2>balanced approach in sometimes the balance goes one way. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>you need to lean more into the data analytics when

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<v Speaker 2>you have people that are making decisions without them, and

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes you have to lead the other way when all

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing is you're looking at the data analytics and

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<v Speaker 2>they're not using any observable behavior as an input for

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<v Speaker 2>the strategies that you're trying to implement.

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<v Speaker 1>I think where I have tried to find this balance

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<v Speaker 1>in my life and where I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>leaders who I really respect as leaders, you know, where

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<v Speaker 1>they do this too, is the human aspect of the

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<v Speaker 1>decision making is what drives them, and the data and

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<v Speaker 1>the analytics are things that they are wholly aware of,

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<v Speaker 1>and sometimes they use that data and those analytics and

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes they throw it out and instead of letting it

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<v Speaker 1>own them and knowing when to be able to do

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<v Speaker 1>that as opposed to just putting your head in the

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<v Speaker 1>stand and saying I'm not gonna I'm gonna ignore the

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<v Speaker 1>data and the analytics because the human aspect of this

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<v Speaker 1>is so important that it doesn't matter what the data says.

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<v Speaker 1>That's never a good thing. It does matter what the

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<v Speaker 1>data says, it does matter what the analytics say. And

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes the right decision is one that flies in the

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<v Speaker 1>face of what that data and analytics say because the

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<v Speaker 1>cost to the human aspect of the decision is too

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<v Speaker 1>great to let the data and the analytics. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>control or be the final decision maker on this, but

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<v Speaker 1>not knowing where you know what what the data and

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<v Speaker 1>the analytics are is a a great recipe for making

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<v Speaker 1>a decision based solely on the human aspect that ends

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<v Speaker 1>up having broader and far more detrimental consequences to the

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<v Speaker 1>business as a whole because you went into it not

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<v Speaker 1>knowing what that data was or what those analytics were.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the it's the difference between you know you you

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<v Speaker 1>if you if you want to invest in stocks, you

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<v Speaker 1>know you can. You can read the Yahoo Finance page

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<v Speaker 1>and and you may not know everything that the that

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<v Speaker 1>the insiders know, but you make a better decision that

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<v Speaker 1>way than throwing a dart at a dart board on

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<v Speaker 1>what to invest in, obviously, and so on. One is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, not even knowing what the data and the

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<v Speaker 1>analytics are is the equivalent of throwing a dart at

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<v Speaker 1>the dart board to figure out what to invest in.

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<v Speaker 1>Having the data and the and the analytics, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>is the equivalent of you know, reading the the yahoos

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<v Speaker 1>you know finance page before making an investment, but but

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<v Speaker 1>making sure that you understand that just because something says

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<v Speaker 1>something on a bulletput on Yahoo Finance doesn't mean that

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<v Speaker 1>the outcome is going to exactly what they say. That

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<v Speaker 1>there are other elements at play here that are that

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<v Speaker 1>are equally, if not more important, and they have to

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<v Speaker 1>strike a balance. So I think they're they're both necessary.

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<v Speaker 1>But but again, if you if you want to be

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<v Speaker 1>a leader whose people believe that you have their best

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<v Speaker 1>interests at heart, you need to know how to articulate

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<v Speaker 1>your decision making in a way that says the human

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<v Speaker 1>aspect of this decision making process is very very important

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<v Speaker 1>to me as a as a fiduciary of the organization

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<v Speaker 1>and as someone in a leadership role who has a responsibility.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't ignore the data altogether. I have to take

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<v Speaker 1>into account.

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<v Speaker 2>Both absolutely and with that it brings us at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of this episode, this is hacking leadership. I'm Lorenzo

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all next time.