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Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 45 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.680 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 46 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:37.960 infamous killers in true crime history, True Murder with your 47 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.159 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 48 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:56.280 Good evening From the cornfields of Nebraska to the top rung. 49 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:59.960 As a rising star of the adult film industry, Timothy 50 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.240 John Boham had everything a young man could ask for, 51 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:07.159 including a beautiful young daughter. The fall from the top 52 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:09.479 of the ladder to the depths of prison was short 53 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.919 and steep, as in one rash moment, with one wrong decision, 54 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:18.039 Boham lost it all season. True crime writer Donna Thomas 55 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:22.759 spent countless hours with the subject Timothy John Boham. Thomas 56 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:24.919 also worked for a period of time for the deceased 57 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:29.319 victim John Paul Kelso. As only a gifted author such 58 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:32.599 as Thomas ken, she takes the readers on this sometimes 59 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:36.680 very perilous, but fascinating and entertaining journey of adult film 60 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:41.240 star Timothy J. Boham aka Marcus Allen, as his thirst 61 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:46.360 and hunger for fame and adulation explodes into chaos, love, loss, 62 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:49.680 and murder. The book that we're featuring this evening is 63 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:53.919 intended for mature audiences. The Rise and deadly spiral of 64 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.520 adult star Timothy J. Bohim was my special guest journalist 65 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.439 and author Donna tom Thus, welcome to the program, and 66 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:05.479 thank you for agreeing to this interview. Donna Thomas, thank 67 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.560 you so much for having me. 68 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:07.520 I really appreciate it. 69 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:10.639 Dan, thank you very much. Finally, we have you on 70 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:17.000 with this wild wild tale. Now you spent considerable time 71 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:23.680 with the former Marcus Allen or the aka Marcus Allen 72 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:29.920 Timothy J. Bulham. But let's take the audience back to 73 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:34.160 where he grew up in this little town in Nebraska. 74 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:38.519 Tell us about his parents, his family life so we 75 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:41.759 can see how what his early life was and what 76 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:45.360 really shaped this man that became Marcus Allen. So tell 77 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.759 us a little bit about sure Timothy J. Buhem's life. 78 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.800 He grew up in Stuart, Nebraska, which is on the 79 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:55.959 northern slope of Nebraska. It's about three thousand people. Even 80 00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:59.879 today there's only four thousand, so it's really really small 81 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:05.519 even now. And he had, you know, very working class parents. 82 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:08.000 His father was a long distance truck driver. He had 83 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:11.680 an older sister named Catherine, and the mother and father 84 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:17.199 were both very very religious, you know, fundamentalist Christians. And 85 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:21.399 his father was extremely abusive. He was an alcoholic and 86 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.480 he spent you know, he had a very very difficult childhood, 87 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:27.199 and the religion was you know, he had a real 88 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:30.839 hard time with the religion. He told me that he 89 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:35.439 always felt very out of place there in Nebraska. He 90 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.959 was very small for his age, so he was teased 91 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:41.199 a lot in school. He didn't gain his height until 92 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:43.959 he was thirteen. He was always the smallest one in school. 93 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.079 He was pushed in lockers, all of that kind of thing. 94 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:48.160 And then when he went home, his father, you know, 95 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:50.160 would come home from a long trip and he was 96 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:53.279 very abusive to not only him, but to the mother 97 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:56.279 and the sister, to all of them. He was beaten 98 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:01.360 terribly so and then the father, his Tim's father, died 99 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:04.399 in a truck driving accident when he was only thirteen, 100 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:09.600 and the mother, Susan Strong, Susan Bohim, met a man 101 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:14.279 that was from Denver named Walter Strong, and she eventually 102 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.160 would remarry him, and then the family relocated to Denver. 103 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:22.000 So then by the time he was in Denver. By 104 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.959 the time he moved to Denver, he was just right 105 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.959 out of high school. Now I skipped a little part there. 106 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.680 He had a girlfriend that he was very seriously involved with, 107 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:37.360 and she was African American and that caused a lot 108 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.600 of strife in the family. That she was one of 109 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.920 very few there in Nebraska. Even now there's very few 110 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:48.839 black people. Then it was, you know, thirty three years back, 111 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.600 thirty years back, it was really a big no no there. 112 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:56.759 I mean, they frowned upon those kind of interracial relationships. 113 00:06:57.079 --> 00:06:59.680 Not only did he have a girlfriend, he went ahead 114 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:03.240 and had a child with this girl who was terribly 115 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:08.439 addicted to drugs and wound up dying shortly after childbirth. 116 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.319 Now this was he was in Denver, and then he 117 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:13.639 got a pregnant. You know, he'd go back and forth 118 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:15.920 between Denver and Nebraska to visit her. It's not that 119 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:19.199 far in the car to make the drive, and so 120 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:21.480 then she got pregnant, and then he was left at 121 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.399 that point when she died, there was no one else 122 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:25.240 to care for him. So by the time he was 123 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:30.920 nineteen years old, he was a single father with a baby. 124 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:35.560 Now start at the wheels turning. Yes, Now, in terms of. 125 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.480 His future career, what was he what was his transformation 126 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:45.360 like from this sort of smaller than normal sort of kid. 127 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.680 How did he blossom? What did he look like? What 128 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.639 was this transformation like? And when did this happen that 129 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:54.839 he became this guy that you know that he wasn't 130 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:56.480 when he was younger. Let's put it that way. 131 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:59.319 Right, in high school, he gravitated towards the theater because 132 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:02.480 he said people in the theater were just more accepting, 133 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:04.720 you know, they were more open minded. So he started 134 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:07.800 to do plays in high school. He started to get 135 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:10.399 into that. People told them, you know, you're really nice looking, 136 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:12.759 you have a really nice look. And then he started 137 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:15.000 doing modeling when he moved to Denver, because there really 138 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:19.120 wasn't any anything and that small part of Nebraska would 139 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:20.519 have had to go to Omah. He didn't want to 140 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:22.560 do that. He was already in Denver, so he started 141 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:26.240 modeling in Denver, and so that's where he started. He 142 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:30.000 found himself in the arts, modeling, doing that kind of thing. 143 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.080 And then he really had to amp it up because 144 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.440 after the girlfriend died, he had this child that he 145 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:40.440 was responsible for. So that I believe, I believe that 146 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.960 if he wouldn't have the child, you and I wouldn't 147 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:46.679 be talking right now. That's just what I think. I 148 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.120 think that caused a lot of the roads that he 149 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:51.639 took at that young age that he kind of was 150 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:53.720 in a panic. He didn't know what to do basically, 151 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.120 and didn't have a lot of support from the family. 152 00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:59.080 He just didn't have it. He was basically on his 153 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.679 own with the child. That's hard for anyone, but a 154 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.840 nineteen year old kid, that's a male. Very hard. 155 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.120 Now you say he was you say he was doing 156 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:11.919 some modeling, and so tell us what type of modeling 157 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:13.960 he started off with. And then when you say he 158 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:17.039 became you know, he realized he was a single father 159 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.679 at nineteen years of age and had to really was 160 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:24.799 responsible for the child now and himself. That might have changed. 161 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:27.000 That changed obviously. So tell us what kind of modeling 162 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:30.039 he started off with and what kind of things he 163 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:32.440 was entertaining as he became more desperate. 164 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:34.559 As you say, he was signed. He was signed in 165 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:37.679 Denver with maximum talent and they're still there now, just 166 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.120 doing you know, legitimate modeling runway where a catalog work 167 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:44.120 for like sea years and that kind of thing. Lots. 168 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:46.639 I mean, he's I mean, you see his picture there. 169 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.039 He's very phologetic. He's a very good looking person, and 170 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.159 he's tall. He was, you know when he got his hide, 171 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.519 he was six' one. He's had a perfect model look. 172 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:56.919 Back in the day. So that's what he was doing. 173 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.879 He was doing legitimate modeling at first. That's how it started. 174 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:04.000 But you know, they told him, you know, Tim, people 175 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:05.799 would tell him, you know, you have a really good 176 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.360 look in Denver, but they said, to really get anywhere 177 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:10.720 and to really make money in this business, you've got 178 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.159 to be either in New York or in la I mean, 179 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.039 you're not gonna really, You're gonna get as far as 180 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:19.720 you can go here regionally, but to really get to 181 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:22.000 a bigger place, you have to be in a bit 182 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.879 in one of those cities. So that's how that started. 183 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.559 But he started to get into the escort business in Denver. 184 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.720 He started he became a male escort there. That was 185 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:36.360 before the porn So that's where the escorting and the 186 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:40.399 kind of underbelly CD world that he found himself in 187 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:44.200 started in Denver, which a lot of people think it's 188 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:47.600 this small little city of Denver is a big metropolitan 189 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:51.639 city with all of that stuff too, and between the 190 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:56.559 people with the suburbs. So that's where that all started. 191 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:00.639 The the blue stuff that he was doing, it's harder 192 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:04.480 than Denver, but it was mostly men that he had. 193 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.279 Mostly it was male customers that he had. I mean, 194 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:10.200 you know, women don't have to know IR escorts, so 195 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:12.159 it with mostly men that he was catering to. 196 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:18.360 Sure was it what was his own sexual orientation officially? 197 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.519 And you know that's a great debate when the when 198 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:25.200 the incident had, I mean, he was he had a girl, 199 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:27.759 he had a baby, he had always had a girlfriend. 200 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:33.360 But I think that's part another issue with what made 201 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.399 him so angry. I believe that he's that. I mean, 202 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:38.639 it's hard to get. It was very difficult to get 203 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.840 a straight answer out of him as far as because 204 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.159 we discussed that a great detail because when he went 205 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:49.159 in did his porn, it was gay porn primarily, and 206 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.759 he said that, you know, I think it was gay. 207 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.120 I mean, to do what he did, you have to 208 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.440 be gay. That was a big issue and when it 209 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.039 went down, everybody said that he hated gays, and it 210 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.480 was there's a whole a lot of stuff with that. 211 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:03.679 I don't think he hated gays. I think he hated 212 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:05.919 the fact that he was gay. That's what I think. 213 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.200 I mean, he probably would say he was bisexual. That's 214 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:14.639 what he's going to say, right, I just leave me. 215 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:16.799 I don't say I don't say what he is or 216 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:18.559 what he's not. I mean, if you watch some of 217 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.799 his movies like I have, it's hard to see this 218 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:24.200 person as a straight man when you see what I've 219 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.240 seen that you know, that's up to the reader. 220 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.440 Now you talk about the CD element of this, and 221 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:34.480 really you really do bring the reader into that CD 222 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:37.600 element at Underbelly, no matter how legit it may look 223 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.960 at anyone's viewpoint. But we're what we're talking what kind 224 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.120 of money were we talking about when he's doing escorts 225 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.120 and this is before he gets to California, so we're 226 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.639 talking about Denver kind of money we're talking about with this. 227 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:55.879 Scene hourly, right, he had hourly clients when he was 228 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:59.120 an escort, so it was probably around one hundred and 229 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.360 one hundred and fifty was an hour. And we're talking about, 230 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.480 you know, years back here. He was maybe nineteen twenty 231 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:06.919 when he was doing that, when he was an escort, 232 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.039 so we're going back, you know, fifteen sixteen years, so 233 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.960 it's about one hundred and twenty five dollars an hour. 234 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.960 And then he said he had overnights like with he 235 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.240 would stay overnight with someone and it was you know, 236 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:20.960 but it was a lot more than he could make 237 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.600 doing a regular job, you know, and a straight job 238 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:26.559 is what he called it. He said he just could 239 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:28.759 not make enough money in doing any kind of straight 240 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.600 work to sport a child. He couldn't do it, That's 241 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:34.080 what he said. And just you know, reporting what he said. 242 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.080 Now with this is he's making good money and he's 243 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.720 making steady money. How does he handle that money? What's 244 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.679 his lifestyle like? Is he is he an arrogant person 245 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.360 with via this money? How does he what's his personality 246 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:49.840 was going? 247 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:52.799 Right now? He drove a pickup truck, you know, the 248 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.000 same pickup truck that he had all through high school. 249 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.799 He got himself a little tiny apartment. His family did 250 00:13:59.799 --> 00:14:03.399 he I mean, his mother helped a little, his sister 251 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:05.639 helped a little, but you know, they all had to work. 252 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.440 Nobody in that family was independently wealthy. Everyone worked, so 253 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.159 they all had to work. And to have an infant, 254 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.759 a small child is a full time thing. Nobody could 255 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:19.080 really sit there and say, okay, here, I'm gonna watch 256 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:22.200 the child. Either they couldn't or they didn't want to. 257 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.879 And you go work, or you go back to school, 258 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:27.399 or you do whatever you have done. And no one 259 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:29.679 really said that. And he said when he got down 260 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.600 to looking at daycare what daycare would cost for an infant, 261 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.399 he said, he just felt that he needed to make 262 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:37.399 a certain amount of money. He got himself a little 263 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:40.840 tiny apartment like a studio for himself and the baby, 264 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.399 and he went and did he did modeling, and then 265 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.279 he did his escorting. And that's basically he just was 266 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:48.519 to pay the bills. He didn't go and buy himself 267 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:50.600 a nice car. He didn't go and do a flash 268 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:55.519 and desh. He lived very simple, meager lifestyle, just to 269 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:59.440 support his child in the beginning. That's what it was. 270 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.559 Did he have a history in high school developed at 271 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:06.759 some point a drug problem? Was this an issue? 272 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.000 No, there was no drugs or alcohol. The girlfriend was 273 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.919 a drug addict, which was interesting to me when I 274 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:17.080 was you know, because you would think he wouldn't be 275 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.559 involved with somebody that was a drugs and he said 276 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:21.120 it was a term. I mean he would he said 277 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:22.840 he would drink, he'd go down and have a beer, 278 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.480 but no drugs. And he begged her every which way 279 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.480 and Sunday for her to stop, to go to rehab, 280 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:31.960 and she would stop and she would get cleaned up. 281 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:34.559 She managed to stay clean enough while she was pregnant 282 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.879 through most of it, not to you know, transfer anything, 283 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.519 because the baby was born healthy. But right after she 284 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:43.759 delivered the baby, he said, a few days later, she 285 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:48.639 was doing drugs again. And we're talking about hardcore drugs, cocaine, math, crack, 286 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.440 all of that stuff. She was doing dust. But he 287 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.519 didn't do that. He never He did not have a 288 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.879 drug or alcohol problem him ever and never had any 289 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.360 kind of legal problems, never was arrested. Never. 290 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.840 Now, when does he make a decision to go to 291 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.399 California and why does he make that decision? And based 292 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:13.799 on what well, there were. 293 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:17.720 A few things he's really hated himself, and for being 294 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.440 an escort. He hated it. He hated being an escort, 295 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.600 so he felt and everybody kept telling him. And he 296 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:25.759 was still doing the modeling when he was an escort. 297 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.799 He was still a model, so everybody was telling him 298 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:30.600 in the industry that if you just go out of 299 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.360 LA or New York, you can do better. So that's 300 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.120 why he did it. He wanted to get out of 301 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:37.840 being an ascort. He was trying to, you know, be 302 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:40.960 an actor, be a model and do it successfully in 303 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.120 a legitimate market, but just make more money. He just 304 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:47.240 wasn't making enough in Denver as a model. So that's 305 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:49.080 when he decided to go. And he decided to go 306 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:51.960 to California because it was it was old, that geography, 307 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.080 it was closer, you know, if he wanted to make it. 308 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.879 The drive, it's a twenty four hour drive, it's you know, 309 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.840 it's an hour and a half playing my versus New York. 310 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.320 It's further so. And he had a few friends that 311 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.519 were living in Las that he met while he was 312 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:08.240 a model that went on to LA to model, so 313 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:10.519 he knew where. He had a few places where he 314 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.960 could stay. So he just thought it would be easier 315 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.079 from the Goats to LA. So that's what he did. 316 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:16.079 He went to LA. 317 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.319 And then how old was he at that time? Roundabouts? 318 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:28.799 How old was he. He was twenty one when he 319 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.359 went to LA, twenty one, so he was in LA. 320 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.880 He settled in West Hollywood, which, if you know LA, 321 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:40.000 that's kind of a predominantly gay area. A lot of 322 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.680 gay people live in West Hollywood. I asked him why 323 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.440 he lived in LA, why he would go to West Hollywood. 324 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:47.079 I mean, there's a lot of places you can go 325 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:50.160 because I've lived in LA for a long time too, 326 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.519 And he said, well, that's where I knew someone that 327 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:54.720 was living there. So I went there, went and stayed 328 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:57.680 with them. And he said, I gave myself three months. 329 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:00.759 That's all I could manage, So all I could get 330 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.359 a commitment for to watch his daughter was three months. 331 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:06.759 Because he didn't have money to go back and forth 332 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.599 for the three months. He had to stay there and work, 333 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.599 you know, and try to work. So he said, I 334 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.519 gave myself three months to make it, to get some 335 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.720 kind of work in a movie, a TV show, get 336 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.599 some modeling work, get any kind of work that I 337 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.599 could make money with. So he gave himself three months. 338 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:27.119 So he tried. I mean, he went on auditions, he 339 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:29.559 went on cattle calls, he did all of that stuff 340 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.799 that actors and models do and got nowhere. He parked cars, 341 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.039 he tried to work in a restaurant. He did have 342 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.480 an anger problem, no drug problem, but a very bad 343 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:42.400 anger problem. And he wouldn't last long when he tried 344 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:44.960 to get like a job to supplement his acting or 345 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.640 whatever he was doing. He wouldn't last at a restaurant 346 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.559 or driving or whatever it was. He just he would 347 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:53.160 have flare ups, and he would have those kinds of problems. 348 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:58.319 Now on the last part of the three months, like 349 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:00.000 the last few days when he was getting ready to 350 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:04.920 go back to Denver. There's varying stories of what happened next. 351 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:09.319 So that's another thing. I mean, I know my side. 352 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.480 You're gonna ask him what he says. It's a different 353 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.000 side than you ask a third person. It's another story. 354 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.799 It's very hard to corroborate this particular story because him 355 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:20.319 has a problem with the truth. You know, a lot 356 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:23.119 of it was helpful to me in this particular case 357 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.720 because I knew the victim. That then we're getting back 358 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:29.200 to when he's back in Denver. But I wouldn't have 359 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.480 been able to get at the truth in this case 360 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.640 of what actually happened with the murder if I wouldn't 361 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.519 have known the victim. And that's only because he's such 362 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.799 a liar, this kid. He lies like it's like it's nothing, 363 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.519 like it's drinking water. I was only able to tease 364 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:46.960 together what happened in this particular case because I knew 365 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.640 the victim, Because I personally knew the victim. If that 366 00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:52.880 makes sense right, well. 367 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.039 Well you'll be able to explain that, because that's a fascinating, 368 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.440 fascinating element of this story, just adding another incredible twist 369 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.039 to this. So now I wanted to ask about this, 370 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.359 and I think the audience would ask this as well. 371 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.720 This guy's a real muscular guy. Part of the industry 372 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.440 is that these guys got to look real buff. Maybe 373 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.559 back in the day they didn't, but I think they 374 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:19.160 always had to, as he's always had to. So this rage, 375 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:24.039 these these fits of rage, they have anything to do 376 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:25.079 with steroid juice? 377 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:25.599 Was that him? 378 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.079 I asked? And he's not. You know, if you see 379 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.279 him in person, I mean by the time I saw 380 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.559 him in person, you know, he was out of the 381 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:35.759 porn business for a long time. But even if you 382 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:39.079 watch his films, he's not like roided up on steroid juice. 383 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:42.039 He doesn't have the very very sand I mean, but moscular. 384 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:43.680 I mean he worked out in a gym and he's 385 00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:45.920 he's mu sure enough that you can buy that he's 386 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:47.480 going to a gym, he's working out. He's not. He 387 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.319 was never Arnold Schwarzenegger muscular or even slider than that. 388 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.359 I mean, his didn't look fabricated. His muscles they looked 389 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:56.519 real from working out, and he worked out every day 390 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:58.920 and twice a day, and a lots of protein and 391 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.519 knew how to lean. I mean, but I don't think 392 00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.440 it was any kind of I think there was some 393 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:07.680 mental illness, and the mental illness was part of He 394 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:09.960 was abused, he was beaten, and then a lot of 395 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.640 those types of people grow up to be very violent 396 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:14.680 people themselves. And I think that's what it was a 397 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.200 matter of why he was so violent. That and a 398 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.480 lot of self loathing. But I think why he was 399 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:23.839 so angry and violent was a lot of different relations 400 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.759 and things that he did was because that's what he 401 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:29.160