WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.040 You see something's going to happen. 2 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:10.599 What What's gonna happen? 3 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.519 What? 4 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:29.480 Help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode, we got myself, 5 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.520 Nick the Occult reject, we got Lisa the Occult reject, 6 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:37.280 mad Scientist, we got Ethan Indigo the Fourth Initiate, and 7 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:39.280 we got Jin the Ninja. 8 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:39.640 Uh. 9 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:42.960 Thank you all very much for joining me today and 10 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:47.200 the special guests that we have. We've got Julia Gordon Ramer. 11 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:50.560 But before we get to the guest, real quick, I 12 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:53.320 am gonna have the other people plug this stuff fast, 13 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:56.560 gin Please, sir, let everybody know where they can fund 14 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:56.920 your show. 15 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:01.560 Sure, thanks, boss. Okay, So, so I'm really excited for 16 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:04.000 this episode. Let me say I even I usually name 17 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:07.000 my own episodes after poetry, and I do have an 18 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:10.920 episode named Fire and Flowers, So don't call me out. 19 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.719 I'm owning it right now. And of course, thank you Lisa, 20 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:17.879 and thank you Ethan and Beg each of a guest 21 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.640 for also having me on. And you can find me 22 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.200 Twitter at Wukan Reborn or. My show is called Threshold Saints. 23 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:28.519 I have two episodes Onlina del Rey aside from the 24 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:31.719 episode on Fire and Flowers. So if people are interested, 25 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:32.519 they can check that out. 26 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:34.680 Awesome, thank you very much, and Neil, thanks will be 27 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.359 in the bottom. Ethan Indigo, sir, can you please let 28 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:39.280 everybody know where they can find your amazing work as well. 29 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:44.280 I'm honored to be here with you all as always, 30 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:48.120 and I have a couple of books that I've written, 31 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:51.480 and I tried to put articles out, just put one 32 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:57.079 out on a co research institute. And I am honored 33 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.439 to be here with Julia and here your insight. It's 34 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:02.040 into Sylvia Plath. 35 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.239 Thank you very much, sir. Again, his links will be 36 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:07.359 in the bottom. And last but not lease, Lisa the 37 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:11.000 ocult rejective mad scientist. How are you? What's going on? 38 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:12.840 I'm good, I'm good, thank you. 39 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:14.759 The only thing I have to plug is exactly what 40 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:17.560 Ethan was saying, is the Occult Research inst dot org, 41 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:22.919 where many, many of our wonderful contributors have contributed great 42 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.759 work in a literary form. So check us out there 43 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:27.400 Occult Research inst dot org. 44 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:32.039 All right, thank you. And finally to the guest Julia 45 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:37.000 Gordon Bramer. Real quick, I'll just put this in there myself. 46 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:39.560 She is a professional tarot card reader. She's a scholar 47 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:44.520 and an award award winning winning writer and poet and 48 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:49.360 former professional professor for the Graduate Writing program at Lyndenwood University. 49 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.840 So also the author of Fixed Stars, govern a Life, 50 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:58.319 Decoding Sylvia Plath, Taro Life Lessons, and The Occult Sylvia Plath. 51 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:02.759 Today we'll be talking about the occult Sylvia play. Thank 52 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.680 you again Julia so much. I guess if you want 53 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.360 kind of like plug yourself, let people know who you are, 54 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:11.599 what your deal is, and I guess after that, you know, 55 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:14.360 we'll get right into what got you doing this? So 56 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:15.199 thank you again? 57 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:21.159 Great? Hi, Yeah, plug myself. Wow. Uh, put me on 58 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.479 the spot there. I am, as you said, a professional 59 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:26.840 tarot card reader. I have clients all over the world. 60 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:31.199 I do readings by phone and by video. I do events, 61 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:35.719 so sometimes people fly me to events. Sometimes we do 62 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.800 events on video that can be fun and where they 63 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:43.439 stream me in much like we're doing this interview. And 64 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.719 uh yeah, So if anyone wants to hire me in 65 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:50.599 any capacity, they can look me up at Julia Gordon 66 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:54.520 Bramer dot com has that and then you know, the 67 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:58.039 writer thing is a whole other thing. But but yeah, 68 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:00.240 I make I make my living as a professional arrow 69 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:02.840 card reader, I'm one of Saint Louis's top ten psychics. 70 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.840 And yeah, I've been doing this for over forty five 71 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:07.960 years now. 72 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:11.000 Listen, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you do have an impressive, 73 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.280 impressive resume on there. And that was another thing too, 74 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:16.519 when I even I when I had tried to contact you, 75 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.240 I had even told the other person I was dealing with, 76 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:21.959 I was like, I'm actually interested in her herself because 77 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:26.000 of the Taro. So hopefully, hopefully in the future you'll 78 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.600 also be back on for that. But yeah, Sylvia Plaid, 79 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:33.759 and I spoke to you earlier, fifteen years of research 80 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:35.040 this lady has done in. 81 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:41.040 Yeah, yeah, so so the occult Sylvia Plath. This was 82 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.600 specifically fifteen years of archival research. There was more time 83 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:48.480 that went into it in the writing and editing and 84 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:52.480 all of that. But when I was back in graduate school, 85 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:55.480 which I started in two thousand and seven, and I 86 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.279 had a poetry class, and I was getting my MFA 87 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:03.519 and create of writing in both poetry and fiction because 88 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.279 I write in both genres. And I went to my 89 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:10.759 poetry professor and I was looking at Platt's work and 90 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:16.399 Aerial in particular, and I said to my professor, doctor Schreiner. 91 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:19.879 I said, what's the deal. You know, there's taro all 92 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:23.560 over this. You know, here's the Night of Swords, and 93 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.079 here's the Ace of Copes, and here's this and here's that. 94 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:31.480 And I start pointing out and he just looks at me, bewildered, 95 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:34.120 and he says, I don't know what you're talking about. 96 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:37.519 And that was when I realized you had to be 97 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:40.920 both a Tarot scholar as I am. As I've been 98 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.759 doing this since I was sixteen years old. I'm sixty 99 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:49.319 one today, and you know, it was you know, and 100 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:54.319 a Plats scholar to connect the dots. But it's screamingly obvious. 101 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.959 And really, I mean, her poem Daddy, which is one 102 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:01.560 of her most famous poems, even says she's got a 103 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.519 line with my gypsy ancestress and my weird luck and 104 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:09.519 my taroq pack and my tarok pack. I may be 105 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:13.399 a bit of a Jew, that's the part of the poem. 106 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.800 And tarok is another word for taro. And what most 107 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.839 people don't understand is that the taro comes from the 108 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:27.399 Jewish cop Kabbalah, the Jewish mysticism. And so you know, 109 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:31.279 for me, it was like boying, like just out there 110 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:36.120 screamingly obvious, and then I realized all of this stuff 111 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.319 that Plat has literally been persecuted for. You know, what's 112 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:43.480 this Boston white girl identifying with Jews in the Holocaust, 113 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:46.319 and you know, like people just got it all wrong. 114 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:51.480 And she was working different levels of meaning because she's 115 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.720 a poet, and that's what poetry does. You know, we 116 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.920 have many metaphors, but she stacked the metaphors. You know. 117 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:03.839 She was a genius is genius and so anyway, as 118 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:08.800 my semester end project, it really became my life's work. 119 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:15.360 But I found her book Ariel, specifically Ariel, the restored edition, 120 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:18.920 which came out in I believe it was two thousand 121 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:22.639 and eight, and that was the ordering of the poems 122 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:27.439 that Plath had intended when Ariel came out back after 123 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:31.480 she died in the nineteen sixties or maybe even seventy, 124 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:35.319 I can't remember now, but the first publication of Ariel, 125 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:41.040 her husband Ted Hughes, had rearranged and so had I 126 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:46.720 seen the original publication, it might not have been so 127 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.199 obvious to me, but what Plath had done was each 128 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:54.519 poem and Ariel went in perfect correspondence with the Tarot 129 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:58.040 deck and so we've got the major Arcana, and then 130 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.959 we have the minor ARCon and the suits, and then 131 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:05.519 we have four cards at the end, which is that's 132 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.240 the four suits specifically, you know, But yeah, I mean, 133 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:13.839 it's just brilliant what she did. And each poem is 134 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:18.319 a reflection of the Tarot card. Many times it shows, 135 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:23.519 you know, she's describing even the beauty of the card, 136 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:26.959 and the colors and the symbols and the meanings of 137 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:30.439 the card of course are woven into each poem. And 138 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:34.559 so when you see the correspondence, all of a sudden, 139 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:39.919 it expands Plats poetry so far beyond what anybody has read. 140 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:44.840 And you know, and I got so excited, and I 141 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:49.879 immediately brought it to academia, into the Plath scholars, to 142 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:55.000 which I thought it would be really well received. But 143 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:01.159 they've built their careers on her being a pressive suicide 144 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:03.360 and they don't want to see anything else but that. 145 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:08.679 And they sure don't want anybody without a PhD. You know, 146 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:10.759 I've got an MFA, but that's not quite good enough. 147 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:11.000 You know. 148 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:15.399 They don't want anyone without a PhD to you know, 149 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:20.360 to usurp their research here. They believe they would have 150 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:23.000 found it first if it was there. I was told that. 151 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:27.159 In fact, even though they know nothing about Taro, and 152 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:32.159 Academia is by and large very atheistic, so they want 153 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:35.240 no part of any kind of faith or especially a 154 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.799 cult which is you know, very creepy in out of 155 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:45.600 their comfort zones. Even though Sylvia Plath was wildly fascinated 156 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.879 with the occult, and anybody who studied her knows this. 157 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:52.039 I mean the picture on my book, The Occult Sylvia Plath, 158 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:56.320 that's actually her with a crystal ball. And you know, 159 00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:59.519 and she's had lots of She's got a long poem, 160 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.919 several poems referring to the wija board in different ways, 161 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.840 but a long poem called Dialogue over a wija Board. 162 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:10.559 And you know, there's there's just a lot in her 163 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:16.759 writings on Ontaro, on astrology. Her husband, Ted Hughes, who 164 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:20.320 she worshiped for much of their seven year marriage until 165 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.200 it all fell apart. He was, you know, he's been 166 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:30.080 vastly studied for his Kabbalah and his witchcraft and his 167 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.840 alchemy and all of this, and yet and and and 168 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:38.200 everyone knows he mentored her in every way, and everyone 169 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:42.320 knows they did hypnotizing together, and they did all these. 170 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:47.039 Meditative studies too, right anything, Yeah, yeah, they. 171 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.080 Did everything like this and and so nobody connected the 172 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:56.159 dots and it's just bizarre to me. And and they're 173 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:00.200 still not, you know, over over in academia. Uh so 174 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:04.720 all of the best response. I mean, I've been I've 175 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.080 been touring this book, and I was in the UK 176 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:12.519 last summer and I had two standing room only events 177 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:17.279 in Watkins' books where Plath and Hughes actually bought tarot 178 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:22.679 cards and some witchcraft books back in the day, and 179 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.440 also tread Wells, which I am very fond of tread Wells, 180 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.960 and I may be going back this summer actually. But 181 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.960 but you know, the London crowd is definitely more open 182 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:40.440 to mysticism, and they're readers too. They love Plath, they 183 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.360 embrace her as their own because she lived there in England, 184 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:50.159 and yeah, they have the open mindedness that Americans not 185 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.000 so much. It's it's real interesting to see how different 186 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:55.039 the audience is. 187 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:58.759 Something I did want to just bring up those two things. 188 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.159 One it's kind of like a little bit off the topic, 189 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:03.639 but it was something that you said that I was 190 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:06.879 kind of glad that you mentioned me and Jin. I 191 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:09.240 think maybe even ethan As might even have said this before. 192 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:10.720 But I know for a fact me and Jin have 193 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:13.759 brought it up with Taro, and I would consider you 194 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.039 probably know way more about Taro than I do. And 195 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:22.159 you said it's associated with Kabbala. Yeah, I For some reason, 196 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:24.879 in the Taro community, this seems to be like people 197 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.840 don't even want to think about that or even admit that, Yeah. 198 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:34.559 It's interesting. I mean, Kabbala is a very intimidating subject, 199 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:39.039 that's right, And so I would never have even you know, 200 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.919 what I knew about Kabbala before I began my Plath 201 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:48.159 work was that, you know, Madonna and Britney Spears supposedly 202 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.759 wore red bands around their wrist, which meant something about it. 203 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.080 That was what I'd heard, you know, and that was 204 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.080 like the extent of it, you know. But I actually 205 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.679 got introduced to k through the plathwork, even though I 206 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:06.320 had been reading Taro since I was sixteen years old. 207 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:12.120 So most Tarot card readers probably are like how I 208 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:17.519 started Plath made me a much better Tarot card reader, honestly, 209 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:22.240 because when I got into Kabbala, which think of Kabbala 210 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:25.960 as sort of like the blueprint for all the occult sciences. 211 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.360 So it's kind of the structure of how they all work. 212 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:36.799 And if anybody can look up online, you can google 213 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:42.000 the Tarot Kabbala and you can see lots of pictures, 214 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:45.320 lots of diagrams of how there's a tarot card for 215 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:49.960 each station called the sefero in the Kabbala try of life, 216 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.559 and a card for each pathway that connects them, and 217 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:58.360 it works out perfectly. The Hermetic Order of the Golden 218 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:02.159 Dawn who did our most modern version, the Writer Weight, 219 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:09.639 they switched two cards in the original tarot to better 220 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:14.200 conform to the kabolotry of life, the number eight strength 221 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.360 and number eleven justice. They reversed it just to fit 222 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.559 the tree better. It's kind of interesting. Purists do not 223 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:26.759 do that. Plath in Hues did not do that, and 224 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:29.320 which I write in my book, and in my first 225 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:35.360 book I explained that. But but yeah, it's it fits 226 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:40.440 really well and and the kabolotry of life. You know, 227 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:45.799 you can apply astronomy astrology. I say astronomy too, because 228 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:52.600 back in the old days it was very intertwined mythology numerology. 229 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.879 It all fits and it all tells this sort of 230 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.840 same story with the same uh you know, human ind 231 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.919 visuation journey as Carl Jung would have called it the 232 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.720 hero's journey as of Campbell called it. Uh. 233 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.879 The other thing I wanted to bring up to I 234 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.759 could be wrong, but wasn't her parents kind of also 235 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:18.559 like practitioners are involved in the Yeah. 236 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:24.279 So you know, when I did all of the research, 237 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:30.279 I comed through lots of memoirs, lots of other biographies 238 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:35.000 to start, because initially I wanted to just put all 239 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:41.080 the information collectively together because people knew, okay, her father 240 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.960 was a freemason. I saw that somewhere they knew her 241 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:50.360 mother studied in graduate school. Parilsis the alchemist they and 242 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.519 they knew that Plath read all her mother's school books. 243 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.639 You know, they all the all the scholars know all 244 00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:00.240 this stuff, but they hadn't put it all together. She 245 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:04.000 went to a Unitarian church, and if you go into 246 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.759 the archives, and that's where it really got fun, was 247 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.600 in the archives because I was going through her school 248 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.879 work and you know, her Sunday school work, which her 249 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.240 mother had saved everything and given it to the University 250 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:20.480 of Indiana's Lily Library, which is so it's pretty amazing 251 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:24.320 to see all this stuff. Her her elementary school Sunday 252 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.080 school work was on the zodiac. 253 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:31.600 You know, so she when she was in high school. Yeah, 254 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.799 when she was in high school summer camp, she carved 255 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.240 a hermetic Caducius, you know, the alchemical wand of Hermes, 256 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.840 which I actually owned that today, that that she carved. 257 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.080 It's it's kept in a safe. It's very prectaice. To me, 258 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.519 it probably is worth more than my house. 259 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:59.639 And I was lucky enough to be contacted by doctor 260 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.840 Richard Larshan, a family friend of the Plats, who had 261 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.039 inherited it. CC's had been written about just this object 262 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:12.880 and excuse me, and doctor Larshan wanted someone who understood, 263 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.599 who had the passion for plaths but understood that mystical side, 264 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.519 to be the one to possess it because he's getting 265 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:23.680 to be very old now. So so I lecked out there. 266 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:27.200 But yeah, the book pulls together all of these facts. 267 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:31.599 That is great. Good for you, nice Lisa or Jin. 268 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.839 Do you guys have any questions before you continue? 269 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:37.079 Jane, go ahead. 270 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:39.960 I just want to say that Julia, I'm so glad 271 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:42.599 you said that, and I'm so glad that Nick obviously 272 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:47.599 the Cabala boss asked that question because this is something 273 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.160 that is recurrent, Like I think when whenever I'm on 274 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.519 at least, this is something that we always talk about. 275 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:58.000 Is Kabala is the map, Like whatever you think of it, 276 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.960 it's a great map, and it makes a lot of sense, 277 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:04.279 and it goes with everything, and you can use it 278 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.480 as like a common language to just discuss magical experience 279 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.680 or more like historical call text. You can do both 280 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.440 things with it, and that's what makes it so great. 281 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.680 And I highly encourage people to study it if they 282 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.839 are so inclined, because I just feel very strongly that 283 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.599 it gives you like a whole different understanding of. 284 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.440 The world, not to not to keep going on it, 285 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.640 but like I even remember for myself, I used to 286 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.640 be a member of the Auto Temple Orientus THEOTO, and 287 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:38.559 I remember when I first started going, I was like 288 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:41.000 sitting on I was like sitting on the couch or whatever, 289 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:43.240 like waiting, you know, waiting for the temple to open. 290 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.519 And I'm like staring there looking at this big picture 291 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.599 and it's like the tree of life and it shows 292 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.359 you all the cards on it. I'm looking at it, 293 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.000 and I even remember at that time, it was like 294 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.920 I was intimidated by Kabbala for sure, and I was 295 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:59.000 even intimidated by Taro. So I really wasn't trying to 296 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:01.240 look at either one of them. But when I looked 297 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.279 at that, I was like, huh, maybe if I like 298 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:05.880 kind of look at it like that, And for some 299 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.079 reason that clickedon got me interested looking at it With 300 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.160 the Kabbalah. I started looking into the Cabala and I 301 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:11.839 was like, oh my god, why did I wait years 302 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:13.680 to look at this? I like fell in love with 303 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:15.960 it right away. And then once I started attributing tarot 304 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.599 to it, I was like, oh, this kind of almost 305 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.119 makes sense now a little bit. 306 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:24.640 Yeah, you know what, my first introduction to up to Kabbala, 307 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:28.119 I didn't know I was being introduced to Kabbala. And 308 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.799 when I was in my twenties, I read a book 309 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:35.160 by Hermann Hesse called The Glass Bead Game also known 310 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:42.480 as Manchester Has Time, and it's about this young monk 311 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:47.359 and he studies and he finds this formula and essentially, 312 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.240 you know, this great work of art. Let's say, you know, 313 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:57.680 the mona lisa equals a bach concerto, which equals something else, 314 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.960 and he realizes this formula is through all the great 315 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.160 things and and so I read it in my twenties. 316 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:09.359 I don't think Hesse ever said anything about Kabbala, but 317 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.279 it was. You know now that I look back as 318 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:14.559 a as a more mature person who's done a little 319 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:18.200 bit of studying. So so that's a fun way to 320 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:23.720 get an idea of this sprawling concept that's woven through everything. Uh. 321 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.240 And it's uh. And he did an excellent job of 322 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.400 that through fiction. If anyone's interested. 323 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.920 Awesome, Yes, all right, so I guess back to play. 324 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.279 Sorry I tore you took of a tangent with. 325 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:38.440 That was fun. Yeah, the only ones who asked me that. 326 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:41.960 No, I just think. I just think it is, like 327 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:44.559 I just a side I use like labyrinthos something whatever 328 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.920 I come across, and I use that a lot. It 329 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.559 always attributes it to the tree. It just makes sense 330 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:51.920 to me that way, Like I could see, well, I mean, 331 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.400 first off, I can't write, so I could never even 332 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.920 think about trying to write poems on all the Tarot cards. 333 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.720 But I could see if you did the twenty two 334 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.039 major kind of on the Tree of Life, that would 335 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.400 give you stories if you looked at the yard and 336 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.799 maybe your ideas of the tree that would definitely give 337 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.400 you work to work with to write poems for sure, 338 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.480 you know, so that's she did that. 339 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.279 And can I just interject, Really the thing about it, 340 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:21.440 Cabal you had said, I'm so glad you said, like 341 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.839 Jen and Nick were saying, I never really associated with Kabala. 342 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.799 With her, I knew about the taro and how layered 343 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.279 and in depth her poetry was, and it was like 344 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:35.720 almost like a stack telling a story and the ability 345 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:40.880 to channel or basically project all of her emotion that 346 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.839 she was going through through all of her poetry in 347 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.960 this kind of layered way. But what struck me interesting 348 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.279 and when you say Kabala, it makes sense now in 349 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:54.880 that there was some sort of methodology to it. And 350 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.519 I think she got that from her parents, because like 351 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.200 you had said, they were academics, and the way she 352 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.960 approached some of the occult topics, even though they were 353 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.599 just so kind of on the fringes, they were like 354 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:10.519 the viewers of her poetry. It was it was almost 355 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.759 as this academic tying it all in together. And when 356 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.519 I read that about her mom having done work on paracelsius, 357 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.319 as we have looked into some of these old occultists 358 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:27.000 or occultis of history that tend to side with Paracelsius. 359 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:31.359 They have these occultive tight leanings, and they're looking at Kabala, 360 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.880 they're looking at all these mysticisms, and so it just 361 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:36.200 now that you say that, it totally fits in. 362 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.319 Yeah, so thank you, thank you for saying that. Yeah, 363 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.240 oh sure, yeah, no, it's it's just so exciting to me, 364 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.119 you know, and what Plath did. And I haven't really 365 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.480 gotten into this, and it's a little too deep to 366 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.079 go into my first book, which is now out of print, 367 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.319 but I do sell it as a PDF, so anyone 368 00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.480 can reach out to me if they're interested. But it's 369 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.160 called Fixed Stars governor Life Decoding Sylvia Plath and I 370 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.440 go through the major arcana. I have yet to publish 371 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.079 on the minor, but Plath took each poem. It has 372 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:18.279 six different meanings working along with Kabbala within each set 373 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.759 of words. So if you can imagine, I mean, I 374 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:26.759 had a mathematician say, what is the possibility that this 375 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:31.960 is coincidence? And it's just not possible. It's like one 376 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.319 in a Google or something that it could have just 377 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.960 randomly corresponded in every way But so what Plath did 378 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.119 was each each aerial poem, you can read it sort 379 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:48.640 of on the Tarot kabbala. You know level, this is 380 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.920 beyond her personal level. Okay, everyone's been reading it. It's 381 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.880 just her personal autobiography. But you can read it in 382 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:58.680 accordance with taro kabala. You can read it astrology and 383 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:02.480 astronomy because she reflects a lot of that. You can 384 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.559 read mythology component, you can read history in the world, 385 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.359 and you can read arts and humanities, and she reflects 386 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:15.799 all of this within each poem in alignment with that 387 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:20.640 tarot card. Like I mean, it's rather mind boggling, and 388 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:23.960 yet it makes her poems, you know, a lot. She 389 00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:26.920 has a lot of very challenging poems in aerial, like 390 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:32.279 the Couriers, which people just don't get until they understand 391 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:36.680 the magician tarot card. And you know, the word of 392 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.440 a snail on the plate of a leaf, and you know, 393 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.680 and there are things that are being shown in the card. 394 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.240 There are things the card represents. There are you know, 395 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:52.319 there's the mythology behind the card, there's the the you 396 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:54.720 know all of it. I mean, you know, like I said, 397 00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.519 it goes deep and I could go on just I 398 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.319 could do, you know, an hour on each poem, So 399 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.519 we won't go through that. But but she was a 400 00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:10.039 genius's genius. And it's my goal, you know, if I 401 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:14.400