Speaker 1: Welcome to the crime Pace. My body doesn't pocket. I'm sorry,
I was just feeling a music there for a minute.
Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers Chinese Rocks originally written by
Dde Ramon, so I believe. Anyway, today we've got a
very special episode for you. We're talking with a crime
Pace field correspondent who just returned from Florida to talk
about the American phenomenon known as the car slam. Now
this is also this phenomenon is also apparently mimicked in
a very few certain localities in Mexico, many localities in Canada,
a couple other first world localities. I've seen this kind
of garbage in Australia as well. Europe. There's not really
enough land for it, but but it is. It's an
amazing phenomenon from an anthropological standpoint, It's just it is
so soul crushing, it crushing and depressing that we thought
we would give it a closer look, especially from someone
who's never I can stop talking in that fucking whitewashed
news caster voice for now, I guess, especially from someone
who's never experienced before Will has never been to the
sun Sun Belt. Okay, our crime Pace Field correspondent will
will Dorin. He's never been to the sun Belt before,
so this was the first time he's actually spent any
grandiose amount of time. I wouldn't say grandiose. It was
only a few days, but that's a lot of time
to spend in Florida car slums. Okay, but this is
the first time he spent you know, he lives in
Chicago's he doesn't even own a car. He's spent his
whole life living in a city, and now he goes
down to this spot, you know, to the lower the
sun Belt, the lower latitude the United States, which is
dependent on air conditioning and driving and completely eradicates most
natural or native plant landscapes within the metro area. Okay,
and is now coming for the farmland that used to
exist in these places. Uh, don't think about There's no
sense in thinking about water shortage issues in places like
Texas or Arizona, those parts of the Sunbelt, because that's
not you know, we're just kind of like a short
term burn everything, short term gain, long term loss, burn
everything down, cash out the bank empty that you know,
cashing the chips mentality, economic mentality. But either way, this
is this was new to him, So this was and
I thought it was. I've been, you know, seeing it
for a while now, so I was. I was enchanted
when he called me for emotional support the other day
to talk about his experiences. He was fucking blown away.
And I said, I got you, buddy, this is you know,
I've got extensive experience with this kind of shit. I'd
be happy to talk to you about it. And so
that that's what that's what I did. So, uh then
I figured I would just go into it, you know,
break it down. So if you live in any of
these places, don't feel bad. There's ways out. You just
have to make sure you're staying away from things like
excessive video game playing, booze, smoking too much weed. Those
things will make you. They will fucking draw energy out
of you. Okay. The thing you want to, you know,
immerse yourself in is is art, in science, in nature
quote unquote. I don't even like the word nature because
it's just the real world. Okay, uh, but you know
what I mean right there. So there's an answer. You
just art, science, learning nature meant the exercise and finding
a way to get some physical activity in these places
without having to go to a fucking gym and rot
and listen to bad you know, bad techno or pop music,
whatever shit they play in there, and smell it an
off gassing plastic, you know. So maybe I don't I
don't know. Maybe you could find an irrigation, an irrigation
or drainage canal, or a power line he's meant to
go jog on or something. But you could still be healthy.
My point is, you could still be healthy, but you
live in these anti cultural car and retail slums. So
don't despair. There's a way out, Okay. You just got
to make sure you stay on You stay on point.
That's all. So anywhere we're gonna get into it, we're
gonna reach out to our field correspondent and talk about
the all American phenomenon, okay, because this is where it originated,
all right, just like hot dogs that hot dog. I
don't think hot dogs Regina here. But you need to
catch my point, okay, And this is so, this is
the all American carum, car slum, the all American phenomenon
of the car and retail slum, okay, and the lawn
in between the fucking twelve lane roads, the driving being
trapped in a car, forced car ownership, all that fun stuff.
All right, anybody who doesn't know what this is. If
you're listening and we have some listeners from Australia, from Europe, Okay,
maybe some residents of New York City, you know, who
will be unfamiliar with this, this will be a real
eye opener for you. And so I'm happy to present
this turd on a paper plate for you so you
can listen to it and dissect this landscape, probably the
ugliest landscape in the first world. Here we go, Hi,
and welcome to the Crime Pays Field Correspondent session, where
we are in the field with our Crime Pays correspondent
Will Dorn, who just returned from America's sun Belt. Now,
for those of you who don't know, America's sun Belt
is a very spiritually depraved region in the lower latitude
United States, basically stretching from southern Florida up through Atlanta,
west through Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Fort Worth, Phoenix through
to Los Angeles. And it's basically one big car slum.
And as the human tumor, as we like to call
it here on Crime Pays that's a trademark term, grows
is the huge and tumor grows.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: It's basically going to become one continuous metropolitan area, similar
to the Bama the Boston to Atlanta metropolitan area. And
i Will grew up in Chicago. He gets around predominantly
by public transportation and bike and doesn't even own a car.
Though he can drive, he just chooses not to. And
this was very shocking for him. So we are here
to talk with him about his experiences and probably one
of the most terrible and ugliest landscapes in the first world.
Will are you there, I'm here, Yeah, so tell us
will tell us what you saw? You're back in Chicago, now,
I bet that feels nice. What did you see in Florida?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I mean, it's just it reminds me of
where my grandma lived in oak Park or in Yeah
or oak Brook, rather like it's just the same house
kind of over and over all these developments, not dense
lawns everywhere, you know, like these big arterial streets that
are just jammed up with traffic with just just the
worst Ruby Tuesdays and Starbucks and and publics and I
don't know, man, it was just some of the most
depressing soul crushing environments I've ever been to. And the
weather was so nice. I mean, it's just.
Speaker 1: The weather's really nice down her in a lower latitude US.
That's true. Yeah, And what did you.
Speaker 2: I mean, especially in the winter, this is this is
when it should be, you know, really enjoyable. And there's
no one outside. Everyone's just in their car and I
don't even know where they're going, you know, they're just
going from place to place.
Speaker 1: Now, you were down there, what were you? You were
visiting family down there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. My so, my girlfriend's parents live in
a town called Claremont, and it's you know, it's it's
just like a housing development, I guess. Or it's one
of many down there.
Speaker 1: Probably didn't even exist, I don't know, forty years ago,
thirty years ago.
Speaker 2: It didn't exist, fifteen years ago. It's brand new. And
everything's brand new. I mean there's literally nothing that's There's
this one someone built a folly there in the fifties.
That's like a tower. It's called the Citrus Tower, but
it's got to be the oldest thing around there. Everything
else is just just brand new, low density developments. They
used to live next door to an Orange grove, which
I'm sure is like its own kind of ecological disaster. Yeah,
but like, but they they just clear cut all those
they're all down. Oh and that's the crazy thing too.
When they put in these new developments, they take out
all the trees, even all the old trees and stuff.
Speaker 1: You got to get rid of all that stuff.
Speaker 2: It's in a way I don't get do you know
why they do that? I mean, I don't you like
living in a place where there's a little bit of shade.
Speaker 1: No, this is will This is a This is a
culture that has no respect for any thing that could
be considered nature or the living world. It's just in
the way, there's no use for it. It's the you know,
the only purpose to land. The only purpose for land
use is either agriculture, which is now done somewhere else,
maybe China, Okay, maybe you know, lots of importing, thanks
thanks NAFTA Global trade uh. And the only purpose for
land use is for is for driving and shopping. And
you need a spot to you know, to house employees.
But that's gonna be obsolete soon too due to AI.
So I don't even know where where they're thinking. Most
people are gonna get money anymore. It truly is dystopic.
I mean, there's no this is a this is a
type of infrastructure that makes obsolete the purposes of going outside.
You're just going outside to travel from one building to
another because it's so fucking hot most of the year
and it's completely dependent on AC and you know, the
good thing about Florida is probably most of it will
be destroyed at some point or underwater. There's there's multiple hurricanes.
Hurricane frequency goes up as temper worms because these you know,
the energy for these hurricanes is driven by hot, warmer
ocean water. You know, I was in the ocean off
the coast of Miami, UH last year, and it felt
like being in a vata of urine. You know, it
was literally it was warmer than urine. It was like
one hundred degrees water temperature. So will this is this
is a landscape that didn't exist, could not have existed until,
you know, fifty years ago. You know, humans spent most
of our our recent history outside interacting with land and
plants and animals, and now we live in these you know,
led the fluorescent light, the fucking boxes and then take
getting another box to drive to another box. You know,
So this is I just I.
Speaker 2: Don't get it's so joyless. I don't know where the
humanity is.
Speaker 1: It's oh, it's hell. Yeah, it's hell. And it's what
do you mean community, like interacting with people or what?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that that, but I mean like like ecologically,
it's an interesting part of Florida. It's on a it's
the highest point of it where we were outside of
Orlando there, and it's it's like, you know, like a
big limestone shell. So they got sinkholes and stuff going
on there.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It just it just breaks my heart because I would
like to see it, you know, one hundred years ago,
you know, and explore, you know, but but they just
made it look like like no play, there's no there there.
Speaker 1: You know, there's just there's nothing. It's just it could
be anywhere. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. It's a
I think there was actually a Dead Kennedy song. This
could be anywhere, but anyway. Yes, Well, it's it's exciting
for me to hear this from me because you sound
so so fresh faced and innocent, whereas I've been experiencing
this hell and trying to philosophically digest it for I
don't know, fifteen years, probably since I first started going
to desert areas in the sun Belt, and then I
would have to pass through places like Phoenix, and I
I thought, this is, this is what hell would be
like for me. I'm surrounded by people mostly pigs, no offense.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, especially a place like Phoenix, like it's
like a it's like a botox cesspool, giant parking lot.
You know, it's it's a really horrible place for me.
For people that like being outside and looking at plants
and and you know, feel a sense of freedom from that,
it's the antithesis of that. And for you someone who
enjoys cities, specifically walkable cities, because I like cities too,
I think with cities, when done right, are the only
hope for humanity, for human culture and progress and advancement.
This is why when these these you know, rural folk
are just shitting on cities all the times. You just
haven't been to a good one. And you probably have
some social issues where you're afraid of people or whatever
and you haven't really dealt with yet. I get that
you grow up in a load density area, but but
you're gonna have to get over that at some point.
Cities can be really great. But you know, for you,
for someone who likes cities, I'm sure it's terrible because
it's it's the antithesis of city. It's the antithesis of place.
There is no culture, there's no regional culture that's specific
to that place. It's all garbage.
Speaker 2: Well, like you know, you know, I know you're not
a city guy, but I you know, it's like the
exit the existence of a city. Though. You want to
have all that humanity in a dense place so that
you can preserve nature, so that we can go out
there and visit exactly know, and visit the rest of
the world. But but these places they've created it somehow
has the worst of being in the country and the
worst of being in the city. There's there's there's people, people,
there's too many cars, and yet there's no there's no
no nature everything that that that should be there, you know,
like her parents are talking about, there's less and less
birds every single year, you know. And and they they
got to go down there, that's where that's where the
birds go down to winter in Florida. But they they
scraped the ear of everything that sustains them, you know, And.
Speaker 1: Oh, they can't use the crape myrtles. They can't use
the crape myrtles in the parking lots outside the fucking
Loubi's or the raws dress for less. It's yeah, there's
no habitat and that's what that's what blows the minds
of people. There's no connection. People are so disconnected. And
I'm not shitting in anyone who chooses to live for
people don't know better. And this is all that's offered
in the area. There is no alternative, you know. But
it's crazy. I mean, you talk to kids.
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't It makes me sad for them.
Speaker 1: You know. It's horrible, it's tragic. It's the American tragedy.
We've we've taken we had too much land and we
didn't know what to do with it, and we've we've
used it for the absolute dumbest shit. But I you know,
I don't I don't implore people to despair who live
in these places. I I implore them to just figure
out a way to philosophically deal with the depression is
not the answer, you know, this is all this will
be gone. That's how I take it, you know, reach
some existentialist philosophy, read some fucking nihilism. Embrace it, remember
what you love and what gives you hope. But you
have to kind of live like a fucking madman. You know,
you have to admit, you have to. You're living in
a place that you know is poison and you're but
you're finding a way to not sweep it under the rug,
but to deal with it in laughter, you know, like,
which requires a mild degree of insanity. But it could
be a positive thing. You can make it positive, you know.
Speaker 2: I like, but even as a crass like capitalist, these
places are totally unsustainable. You know, they got to build
infrastructure for all this. It's it's all gonna be just
a suburban ghetto in thirty years when they're not shiny
and new.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Are you saying it's a
Ponzi scheme? Are you saying the suburban sprawls a Ponzi scheme?
Speaker 2: I know, who could ever think a land speculation scheme
in Florida. They've only been doing that for a century
and a half. But I can't believe they continue to
do it. It's just it's it's breathtaking and its stupidity
and monstrosity.
Speaker 1: I think I think most people there, I think most
of the investors and developers and leaders there know that
it's going to be gone soon and so this is
all just a short term empty the bank, cash in
the chips, you know, uh, fuck all the holes until
it's done and that's you know, and just and then
just it's get rid of it. I don't, I don't,
but I don't understand. What really surprises me is I
see people who live in these places getting defensive about it,
and which like they get pride about it.
Speaker 2: Some of them, especially what act do you hear them like?
Speaker 1: There's no logical they can't. I mean, anyone who's seen
what like what a pleasant life can be like, you know,
where you have public space that doesn't require shopping, and
you've got places to go outside and look at other
life forms. I mean, I don't understand how people can't
enjoy quote nature. I'm calling it nature because I mean,
I hate that word, but I don't know what else
to call it. For lay people the living world I
call I mean, I don't understand people who don't appreciate
that that's what we fucking evolved with, you know, for
hundreds of thousands of years. I don't understand how people
can not care about it and be so disconnected and
think that it doesn't matter. But these places don't have
The only nature that's left is what's able to exist
on the margins of this garbage, you know, like in
a drainage ditch or a power line esement there on
the margins of the agriculture. But now all the agriculture
is getting scraped away. So these marginal spaces where you know,
snakes and cool lizards and birds and whatever fucking plants
could you know, could could survive the original land scraping
one hundred fifty hundred years ago, fifty years ago. That's
those places are all getting destroyed now too, because they
take everything when they build a fucking housing slum. And
then the kids that grow up in these places have nowhere.
I mean, there's you don't get to be a kid.
You're stuck inside, you're on fucking TikTok in video games.
There's no purpose to going outside, and it's hot as
fuck most of the time, and so and the other
thing that drives me nuts here. So if you need exercise,
because everyone still wants to look good, right, because we're
you know, primates, trying to fucking whatever. If everyone's still
trying to look good. So what you do You go
to the gym where you're inhaling plastic off gassing and
in there with other slobs listening the horrible music. It's
not like a gym is not that's not like a
good way. It's it's a it's a necessity in some places,
but it's not the preferred way to get physical activity
or exercise. If you live in a place where there's
public transit and walking, you're getting exercise, you're burning calories
just by existing. But not in the car slum, you're
trapped in a car. The only walking you do is
through the parking lot.
Speaker 2: I saw I saw commercial down there. I couldn't believe
it was real, that it wasn't like an SNL send
up or something. But it was two people. It was
a commercial for a cars and it was two people
talking about talking about why they're to buy this forward truck.
And uh, the one the guy goes, he goes. You know,
I drive to work every day and I hate my job.
He goes, but driving to work is the best part
of my day. And I was like, oh.
Speaker 1: God, Can you fucking imagine can you fucking imagine it?
Speaker 2: That's the tack they're using the cell cars, like people
relate to that, like you know, I mean, going going
to work isn't my favorite part of the day, but
I ride my bike five miles to work, and you know,
at least my blood's moving a little bit, and and
you know, when I get there, even during the winter,
I'm warm already.
Speaker 1: But also also when you're getting fucking physical activity, after
ten minutes, you get dop dopamine and serotonin being released.
That's a that's an that's an adaptive benefit, that's a
that's a result of evolution. So it keeps us moving,
you know. So when we're fucking evolved hunting and chasing
things or foraging food whatever, that kept us wanting to
do it. You know, it's this idea of like I'm
just gonna go to the jim and run on the
treadmill and listen to this horrible techno music they play
in here, and hopefully hope that like people check me out.
You know, I'm gonna go lift weights. So now I
got those fucking chicken legs, but I'm all jacked up
up top. I mean it's it's horrible. It's a horrible life.
And then you think about you mix this with the
culture of heavy religion, in this case Christianity, right, because
in the Sun Belt especially, there's a lot of deranged,
especially the Baptist shit, like the really you know, the
fucking intense evangelical Jesus is the only reason. You live
in a make believe world made by people. There's no reality.
You have no awareness of how the ground beneath your
feet was formed, how you came to be, natural selection, evolution,
how old the earth is, what any of the life
forms are around you. It's a fucking you're you're living
in a pod, You're living in a matrix. It's fucking
unreal that this is.
Speaker 2: You know, Joe, you sound like you need a spa
day and maybe, you know, like a health ty. You know,
maybe they'll get your head right.
Speaker 1: That's what I think about these like these kids, like
if you live in if you grow up in a
place like that, why not do drugs? Why not just yeah,
why not just smoke your life away, smoke yourself into
a comba every night and smoke weeds so you can escape,
you know, at least that's gonna be more sustainable than alcohol.
The alcohol is really important though, especially in many of
these Southern stakes, because alcohol numbs you from feeling any
of this. I mean, your life can be miserable, but
you can just drown yourself in booze. You don't have
to really deal with it, and then your life span
is gonna be, you know, twenty years shorter probably anyway.
You might get the UIs along the way, but you're
gonna you know, you're you're basically numbing yourself and shortening
your lifespan so you don't have to deal with this
kind of life some more so, I would just implore
people to drop out, start riding fucking freight ranks, become
a bum more pleasant, to spray your shit under a
bridge and then hop on a fucking box car and
ride around town, you know, occasionally doing minor stints in
jail for misdemeanors. Not to participate in this shit, right, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Better than you know. I mean that they get you
in a loop there too, because if you do drink,
you know, you got to drive ten to ten miles
away to where you can drink, and then you get it.
You get a dewey on the way back right, and
then you're in You're in a car cereal loop, you know.
So you owe money in your car, you owe money
to your lawyer for the Dewey. You can't live anywhere,
that's that you can't that you cannot drive to. I
mean it's just they and there's no bus, you know,
there's no train. So they've just got you in this
this debt and depression cycle. You know, it's would.
Speaker 1: You would you you wouldn't bike in any of these areas?
Would you just explain to us what the what the
sun Belt road infrastructure looks like?
Speaker 2: Good lord, So I saw a couple like bike lanes,
and you know it's it's you know, we say in
the biking community, paints and protection. It's just a painted lane,
no ballards, no curbs along a fifty mile an hour road.
And and as a biscuse, I can tell you at
least in Chicago any given day, a third of people
are looking at their phone. And you smell weed everywhere too,
And I don't think that's different down in Florida. So
you've got distracted drivers. Cars are getting bigger and bigger.
These electric cars weigh eight thousand pounds you know, they
might not even feel you if they run into you
down there. I would never bite down there, except on
the sidewalks.
Speaker 1: Well, was that I both the road over a bug? Right?
Speaker 2: Was that a turtle?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Fuck it, we're on the way to the liquor store.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this speed limit on somebody'se fucking just municipal
roads is insane. And in Texas we have the Frontage Road.
It's a one way frontage road that's about five lanes,
and the speed limits seventy. It's about the you know,
maybe it's fifty, but everybody goes seventy or eighty, and
everyone drives like a pig, like they're just riding your
ass to get to the red light that's two hundred
feet in front of you. I mean, this whole this
infrastructure encourages pig behavior. It encourages slob behavior. It's why
when Europeans or someone else sees Americans, you know, behaving
in a certain way, and we do have a reputation
as pigs and slobs. They you know, this is why.
It's we are doing our patriotic duty by being pigs
and slabs. We're doing what this is what society produces
garbage in garbage. Oh, you've got a infrastructure like this.
This is the type of person and it's not even
their fault because they're not thinking about who they are,
and no one's got any insight in these places, right,
They're just products of their environment. And so this is
you know, this is where it comes from. This explains
the American mentality. Now you're in a city like Chicago,
which is very old, it's got you know, the blocks
were already built before all this miserable shit was mainly
created in the fifties and sixties, so there's only so
much they could do. I was amazed that people drive
in Chicago. I mean, it's a it's fucking horrible driving
in Chicago. Parking is a pain in the ass, takes
longer to get work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone I work with drives, you know, and they
you know, they always they're always offered me rides and
you know, it's it's too cold. But if you know,
if you take a ride to where I live, I
can get there much faster biking, you know, and it's
more enjoyable. I mean, it's you are putting your your
life of risk a little bit, you know, with the
distracted driving and everything like that. But you know, have
you've been doing it for long enough you kind of.
Speaker 1: I used to look up the rhythm. I used to
love bike. I didn't even own a car until I
was like twenty five. I used to love I got
in a bike when I was like twenty and I
was like, this is fucking great. It's free. It feels amazing.
I would smoke weed and then bike to Milwaukee from
Chicago along that Lakefront trail, and that was when I
first realized, like, wow, this feels good. It's like addictive.
This is the closest you can get to flying, like
feeling that breeze in your hair. You know.
Speaker 2: But and I don't get why the libertarians don't like it.
You know, it doesn't require a license, you know, you
gotta be individual.
Speaker 1: They lean right, and it's oil company propaganda, and they
probably since they lean right, they're probably you know, it's
the meathead mentality, is that like biking is for pussy's
I think, you know, it's just this kind of anti
intellectual more of this anti intellectual you know, yunkhead brutish shit.
It's crazy though, did you did you ever see that
guy Joey love that Puerto Rican bike messenger. I ever
tell you about him in Chicago? Is he still around?
I don't know.
Speaker 2: I gotta I gotta look him up. That's a good question.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He used to bike with the full hockey regelia
and a football him and he'd take those Neon zip
ties and tie him through his ship, you know, so
that like if anyone hit him, he would completely fuck
up their car, you know. Yeah, it was shoulder pads
and shipped too. Was great. It's kind of what you
gotta done. You gotta do here, you know, But I can't.
You can't. For me. It's hard because I get I
get mad. I've spent a lifetime full of you know,
hate for authority and very you know, salty. But and
so I'm trying to dial that down. And that's why
I think the nihilism approach was very important. You know,
nihilism will also praying that all this shit collapses at
some point, you know, if it doesn't remedy itself. And
I don't think I don't think it's going to. I
can't see anything that would be bad for the economy
that we've created.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like, and what is the economy?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: People? No, it's something else.
Speaker 1: I think it's make believe. It's make it's make believe.
I think it's it's uh. And they can be constructed
on different things. But you know, that's the way I
used to say that stop humanity should all. I mean,
I still do, but it's I meant stop humanity from
taking over the world. But I would always get these
comments from these you know, like fucking twenty five social
just twenty five year old social justic kids, be like,
it's it's capitalism, it's not humanity, Like, okay, well, but
humanity invented capitalism. This is the current state. The dominant
number of humans do this. It's second. I mean, first off,
it's a joke, but second, you know, this is where
do we go? For me? Like, there's no better system
that we have right now than anybody's invented that I
can point to, you know, I mean there could be there,
There certainly could be. I could think of some, but
but it's it's an anthropocentric mentality. That's the Capitalism is
anthropost centrism. Capitalism is fucking pure poison, especially when you've
deregulated it to the fact like we have.
Speaker 2: But it's gonna be a fun four years, you know, deregulation.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be it's gonna be Reagan two point oh,
it's gonna be I don't think, you know, you hear
people being like, he's got to bring back the constat trash.
I think it's gonna be Reagan two point oh. But
it's gonna be good for the eventual collapse of the
United States. Like the dumber you make people, the richer
you make the one percent, the more inequality. There's probably
gonna be a couple more CEO whackings, you know, or attempts.
It's gonna be massive civil unrest will probably be like
South Africa at some point, like razor wire on all
the you know, rich people living in these compounds with
razor wire and stuff. But uh, you know, I'm I'm
really sad for the extinctions. Will. Probably this sounds really negative. Will,
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to implicate you on this,
but you negative. I'm really sad for the for the
extinctions that are probably coming. It's why it's important to
document it all now and preserve it as much as
you can. Learned to grow it and everything.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, it's the people responsible are never the
ones that face the consequences at all. The people that
get hurt are you know, the little people.
Speaker 1: They've got enough wealth to insulate themselves from any of
the consequences of their actions. You know, I think that
the hope is in educating people on what you know,
these motherfuckers are doing, uh, and the foolishness of it all,
and how we can provide an antidote, like what would?
What would? I couldn't believe the this was this was
not maybe so loud, but I certainly saw markings of it.
But like the right wing response to the fifteen Minute City,
they were like that, this sounds like authority, This sounds
like tyranny, This is tyrannical. I was like, it sounds
tyrannical to be forced to own a car and not
be able to do what you've evolved to do, which
is walk outside. You can't fucking walk anywhere. You're trapped
in a bubble. You might as well be on Mars. Like,
that doesn't sound like tyringy to you. You're forced to
own this thing that takes so much fucking healthy you know,
car insurance payments, you know, the fucking money. It's such
a huge industry, that all the fucking maintenance, the oil changes,
the fuel, the fucking you're forced to do this shit
like you have no alternative.
Speaker 2: Have you ever gotten into uh you know, like uh,
you know, a kerfuffle on the road. People aren't happy
that are driving, They're not happy there. I've seen the
angriest people.
Speaker 1: It's it.
Speaker 2: It it'll take like really nice people and make them
furious and say things that you couldn't believe that that
little old lady said.
Speaker 1: You know, it's something that's a primate brain. It's crazy.
It's fucking crazy.
Speaker 2: But maybe that's all part of the right wing outrage engine,
you know, is that they there, there's there's you know,
I guess you get energy from being furious all the time.
You know, that's a certain kind of energy you get.
Speaker 1: Well if everybody's mad all the time though too, and
there's I mean there's plenty on the left that are
mad all the time as well. True, but you know,
if if if people are mad all the time, then
that's good for the oligarchy and it keeps people distracted.
And you know, it's uh, it's I mean, it's crazy.
It's crazy that it's like that, and it's It's also
good for the algorithms. It keeps them focused on ship,
that keeps them mad, and it keeps them paying attention.
And then you sneak ads in. You know, it's a
it's the way to be. It's and no one's am
into it. It's like I see left and right doing
it all the fucking same. Uh. What we need is
for left and right to come together, you know, and
point out how fuck this is, and that they're being
deprived of things that humans evolved to do, which is
bond with land and other life forms and spend time outside,
you know, not be forced to get your exercise with fucking.
Speaker 2: Gym, with with the with the at least a little
bit optimism and to blow a little smoke up your
ass is that your crime pace is very popular at
the uh the bougie school where I work with the
high school students, Well they got into it through Chancosaurus,
but now they're now they're into crime pace. So you know,
that gives me great hope, you know, because you know
a lot of those people will have real power, you know,
be making decisions going forward, you know, and just I
hope they remember, Oh god, I hope they do better.
Than you know, than our generation, of the generations before.
Speaker 1: But well they're there. I mean that's nice to hear
because you know, I grew up being bullied by rich kids.
There's a fucking plant check group dominated by rich kids
that fucking hate me. But but but it's no one
listens to them anyway. But anyway, but there, you know,
these people are in northern latitudes. This is a this
is a sun belt issue. This is where the culture
of the car slum is most dominant. It's most dominant
in the the lower latitude US and I think parts
of Mexico are trying to emulate this ship. You know,
Mexico has a very materialistic culture, or can have in
certain places, you know, very materialistic and wealth worshiping and
class stratified, especially in the cities, not of course in
like you know, indigenous indigenous mountain communities. But I don't see.
And this is in Canada too. This is certainly there's garbage,
Like I've seen Canadian landscapes like around Toronto that look
as hideous as this sun belt shit. But it really
takes changing the added you know, I think people associate
cars with freedom, and if you're going on a road, trip.
That makes sense, but there's no freedom in these car slums.
It takes forever to get places, and they're so they're
spread so far apart, you know, And I remember living
in cities. You know, your fucking day would be filled
with so much activity because everything's so dense, and you
could bike everywhere. If you let a fulfilling life, you
would bike to work and you'd stop at a fucking
coffee shop, or you'd stop to get a fucking stop
at a bakery, and there's people walking around, and there's
you know, it's active, full fulfilling life. You don't get that.
You're waiting at stoplights in this ship. You're sucking on
the tailpipe emissions of the pig in front of you.
You're disconnected from people. It's you know, if you see
someone on a bike, if they're probably a poor person
or someone some immigrant going to work, or somebody with
the uy's right, and there's no I mean, there's not
even bike lanes where I live. That's ridiculous, and you'd
be mad to use to use them, you know. I mean.
The the least they could do in these car slum
shitholes is build I saw this in like college, Park,
Maryland's build a trail, have like a bike trail in
between two of the major roads, like you know how
like major roads will be spaced the same direction, parallel,
major roads spaced two miles apart, and then in between
them you'd have a you know, only bike trail that
you could get you know, used to get around, so
that at least you've got the emissions on either side
of you and the beautiful view of a highway. No no, no,
the bike trail. No no, no. Like in College Park, the
bike trail was surrounded by a green buffer zone. That's
the other thing. There were no cars. It was really cool.
It was a nice model. Yeah. I was like, this
is amazing. Why don't and they just had it there
because it's college kids probably, But you could use that
as a model everyere Now. I don't expect that to
happen because there's no way to make money off of it,
and there's you know, biking is inherently you know, anti
consumer because it doesn't require all of it.
Speaker 2: But is it though, Like you know, I like over here,
you know, they've done studies here in Chicago where it's
if you can walk or bike to the little shops
and stuff. People spend money, you know, and it it
takes a lot. People don't actually.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the activity of biking doesn't require fuel
and all changes and tires, and there's not a hole
you're not driving this thing that requires three hundred dollars
monthly payments, you know, like there's a whole such a
huge economy built around car ownership, you know, because we
don't make anything here anymore. It's all just tech garbage
and service service economy and selling people subscriptions online like
service you know, online service subscriptions and shit. So I
don't know where do you see what do you think
will happen? You? Where do you see this all going?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we're doomed. But you know, I
hopefully if we could frame you know, walking and biking
as like rugged and individualistic, you know, if they could
rebrand it somehow and not make it so politicized, you know,
or politicize it in the way that that it's like
you know this, you know what this is a little
trick that doctors don't want you to know. If you
walk in your.
Speaker 1: Stuff, it'll never happen. It'll never happen because especially the
I think like the macho and this just plays into
evolutionarily speaking, where humans come from, and especially where the
roots of American culture is rooted in this this macho
mouth breather. And you could be all that. You could
be like macho and fucking what you know without having
to and still be an intellectual. But that's not the
American way. It's anti pragmancy. You can sell you can
literally sell people poison as long as you tell them
it makes them look tougher, at least men American men.
You know, Yeah, you could sell them things that will
kill them in twenty years off if you tell them
it makes them look tougher. Just suck it up. This
whole fucking culture, this anti intellectual culture. It's crazy. It's
fucking wild that you know. This is why like environmentalism
and climate change. You see these fucking chads online, they're
like twenty five Joe Rogan Bros. Just parroting oil company
propaganda because environmentalism and all this is seen as like
a weak. It's it's crazy to me. It's it's such
a like they're being hoodwinked, you know, I mean like.
Speaker 2: In kids too, you know, because I when we were
in high school and stuff. We were like, maybe it
was the music we were listening to and stuff, but
we were anti corporate, you know, like anti all that stuff.
And it just seems so, I don't know, anti young
to be parroting the AstroTurf talking points of a fucking
multinational conglomerate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean you got to be a moron
to do it. I think that's definitely part of you
can't be like, you can't be thinking about you know,
I don't know, it's this whole repackaging of like conservatism
is somehow rebellious. Is fucking wild to me, but that's
what's been done. You've repackaged, you know, being a fucking
seventy year old, angry white guy is somehow rebellious, and
then you package it in a way that you get
twenty five year old kids and twenty year old kids
sucking it up and buying it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had never seen this before, but it's this is
the thing now, especially in Texas. It's fucking crazy. And
then you try to argue with any of these fucks,
they don't have shit to say, they could, you know,
they fall apart and then probably just result the you know, uh,
ad hominem attacks. I don't know, but I've never heard
anything intelligent like I'm not I'm not. I'm certainly not
one to just go with the crowd with my herd.
You know, I'm gonna if someone's saying stupid shit, it's
gonna feel weird and me, it's gonna feel icky to me.
I can't go with it. That's why I couldn't, you know,
I couldn't really end up standing around with all the
fucking quote unquote woke social justice self flagellating white progressives.
You know that I was around in the Bay Area,
you know, like the fucking identitarians that kind of ruined leftism,
ruined the American I couldn't. It just felt phony after
a certain point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's there's joylessness in that too, you know.
It's it's like I I think, I think that's you know,
a big part of a big part of this whole,
you know, like moving your body and being out there
it brings me joy. And I think joy is an
act of rebellion, especially when you're not when you're not
paying for.
Speaker 1: Joy and genuine freedom. Yeah, that's why that's why I
go to wild habitats. And try to fucking interact with
other living organisms. Is because I get a sense of
freedom for that. But my point is that you can
manipulate anybody left or right by exploiting the traits of
the human animal. And the traits of the human animal.
The human primate is conformity, needing validation from peers, wanting
to be our social dynamics, wanting to feel part of
a group. No one wants to feel ostracized from the group,
you know, they want They might feel ostracized from the
large group, but they feel out, they feel part of
another group, and so nobody wants that, you know. So
that's why I like a lot of the these movements
are held together by people that are afraid of what,
you know, being fucking ostracized or shunned or shamed. But conversy,
you can convince people to do shit that's bad for
them as long as you validated somehow socially, you know,
like live in a car slim and defend the car
slum lifestyle, and be against biking and be against walking outside,
and you know, and and defend the lawn and all
this shit. Oh, this garbage, the the.
Speaker 2: The worst, the worst of all of it, I think,
And this wasn't even in this was in Georgia. We
stopped at a BUCkies, and uh, if you wanted to
still the worst parts of all of American culture and
the sun Belt and everything, it's right there at the BUCkies.
It's like it's butts to nuts in there. It was
so crowded. There's one hundred gas pumps. Everyone's being rude.
There's no there's no you know. And then they're selling
these like right wing like trinkets in there, you know,
like mugs with uh with uh don't tread on Me flags,
And I was just like, I mean, to their credit.
I got a big iced tea there for ninety nine cents.
That was quite good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've only been in one once, but it seems
like a lovely place to witness like a road raide
shooting or something, or like yet two large, you know,
obese suburban men beating each other with pipes or something,
you know, because somebody got that they took their place
in line at the gas pump. That would be a
wonderful thing to see at a BUCkies.
Speaker 2: It was upsetting. I'm my antidote today. I'm gonna go
walk over and look at the lake. Go look at
Lake Michigan and just meditate on that is.
Speaker 1: What's it like right there here on December twenty ninth.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's beautiful and there's not that many people down there.
So I'm gonna go over to Montrose Beach and it's
it's about thirty five forty right now, not too bad,
but it's sunny.
Speaker 1: God, it's so much warmer than it's been for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's real, man. The winners are getting warmer.
And well, it's like the seasons have been pushed back,
so like November is pretty warm now, and we get
the winter more like December, January, February, but it's more
like Seattle asque a lot of days, you know, it's
kind of rainy and yeah, dreary, you know, but not
the big not as many of the big snowstorms that
we used to get.
Speaker 1: So but then then spring comes earlier too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this fan the spring is really nice. The summers.
Summers are hotter now, a little bit hotter than they
used to be.
Speaker 1: They got beavers, They got beavers at Montrose Beach.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a I I haven't seen him, No,
my brother's seen him. Out there. He goes there all
the he goes there every day, he goes to take
a walk there. He lives right by the.
Speaker 1: It was a fucking river ouder in the Chicago River too,
I guess. I know.
Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing that that the remediation efforts on the
river are really I mean, I went kayaking in the
Chicago River about fifteen years ago and it's stunk. And
it's now they've got these like rafts of vegetation they've
put in. They put in this whole river walk on
the north side that it's it's like, I think they
only had three species of fish there thirty years ago,
and now there's dozens and dozens.
Speaker 1: So that's better.
Speaker 2: The more it gives you a little bit.
Speaker 1: Of hope, I want people to start doing doing what
Urban Rivers is doing. I want like gorilla projects where
they're creating floating habitat match on the Chicago River, just
some fucking random group of kids or something that would
be amazing.
Speaker 2: And they're doing that more around. There's a school right
by here too, where the the kids have put in
like a prairie garden. So it's all it's all, you know,
because this where we are right now used to be dunes.
We're on a ridge right here by the ancient lake
shoreline where I live, and so it's like the perfect
environment for prairie grasses, all kinds of cool flowers and stuff.
And I think people are kind of wisen up to
that and bringing that back. I mean, there's not a
ton of you know, space for it, but but you know,
every every little one you know, is something, and that's
you know, like you've been to my folks and they've
got a natural lawn and it's an oasis during during
the summer. Everyone else's lawn is dead, and they've got
there's dragonflies, there's butterflies, they've got lizards, they've got frogs,
there's insects buzzing over it all the time. But just
that little patch, and everyone else you know in the
town are like, oh, is you're is that an abandoned
house or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: I can't but see that needs to change too, Like
that's part of the thing is changing culture. You need
to change the culture by normalizing this shit. I can't
there's no there's no point for a lawn. It's just
a spot for a dog. This shit, I can't understand that.
You know, you create a little ten foot by ten
foot patch if you get enough property, you know, or
you take them to the park, or if you're doing
you know, playing fucking some sort of sport or something.
But I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just seems a point we got the kids,
you know, or whatever. But you know, I mean, that
was the thing. I mean, I told you down there,
down there in Claremont, Florida, I took an hour and
a half walk I saw. I saw two people walking.
One of them was walking a little toy dog, a
little a man walking a toy I think most people
just walk to walk their dogs. And then I saw
one kid playing basketball in their driveway. But but everyone else,
all these all these perfectly manicured lawns. No one's doing shit.
And this is the time of the year with seventy
eight degrees, it was perfect.
Speaker 1: There's no point going outside though. What is there to see? Right,
There's nothing to see, there's nothing to interact with. If
you've got like a little patch of woodlands behind the house,
it's well maintained and not filled with invasive species, you
could have a trail back there. You can go walk
through there there's trees, to look at bugs, to look
at birds, to look at plants, there's But in these
these fucking sun Belt communities, these car slums, there's nothing
to look at. You can walk through a residential or
you can walk through a strip mall, you know, and
then risk getting killed by some you know, seventeen year
old texting in a fucking Yukon or a Giant f
one fifty and their dad's f one fifty. But and
then look at the stores. Maybe I guess you go
into Best Buy in Perus through shit you don't need.
But that's that's life. There's no there's no, there's nothing
to look at. It was like you're in a dense city.
You can go to the park, there's cool little independent
shops close together you can look at. You could just
look at public life, you could people watch. But in
these places it's nothing. I can't and you think about
how many millions of people live in these places and
live like this. And again, we're not faulting, I'm not
shitting anybody. But it's it's all that's there. It's the
only option. It's fucking crazy, it's so sad, it's such
a fucking horrible way to live. And then you wonder, Yeah,
of course, I wonder why so many people are miserable
and depressed and shooting up schools and there's nothing to
live for are we live? We're in a no man's
land in terms of human existence, Like the things like
this landscape didn't exist before. It couldn't have existed before.
We've created this completely artificial landscape and we're fucking lost
in it. We don't know what to do. It's just
shopping and working. There's nothing else, and going to the gym,
you know, maybe, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going back for a while. I'll tell
you that.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was that you called me for
moral support when you were there, and I said, I
got this. This is I think about this every day
because I fucking live in a region like this. And
then you see there's i mean, no one has any
there's no awareness. There's so little aware. I mean, there
are people, but it's such a microcosm. There's people that
have an awareness of the wild places and the life
forms around them, but they're very, very small, and there's
not many places. There's like maybe a state park every
twenty miles if that.
Speaker 2: It's Yeah, are young people gonna want to live live there.
That's the other thing. I thought people were moving back
to cities. I thought that was a trend. There are
young people gonna want to like stay out there.
Speaker 1: Well you've got to You've got to dupe them into
into it somehow with either religion, you know, which kind
of tells you to stay the course and stay on
this miserable life and ignore your anxiety and suffering and
depression because God will fix it. Or you've got to
sell them, you know, the daily grind kind of David Goggins,
work hard, you know it, don't be a pussy type
thing and you.
Speaker 2: Just grind, grindset mindset.
Speaker 1: Yeah, life is supposed to to suck and there's nothing else, Like,
how could you think that there's another way to live,
you fucking pussy? Like that's what you sell them. And
then they they do that, and uh, you know, and
there's just life is still meaningless. But they feel that
they maybe they have a nice truck or a you know,
a trophy. Wy for maybe someone's you know, getting botox
at age thirty because she doesn't want to wrinkle and
so she looks really good. She puts a lot of
energy into how she looks so that men find her
attractive and then everyone's going to the gym. I don't know.
I mean, this is just what I see. It's just
what I I guess. I mean anthropologically what I'm looking at.
I mean, you live to impress other people, and you
live to acquire status symbols. But there's no inter fulfillment.
You know, there's nothing you're not getting like inter fulfillment
from fucking making art or doing a painting, playing piano.
I don't see a lot of art in these places. Certainly,
I don't see a lot of music. I don't see
a lot of creativity. There's no nature. You're not getting
fulfillment from going out and feeling good looking at you know,
living green things around you. So you've got to You've
got to create meaning somewhere. Video games are very important
in these landscapes too. Video games are a necessity.
Speaker 2: Have you ever have you ever like helped clean up
a house when when someone's died, to like all this
stuff that people collect their whole life there the next
to kin just whip it all into a dumpster. You know,
you take a couple of things and but this whole
life of of gathering like shiny things like a magpie.
You know, it all just gets whipped into a dumpster,
right right.
Speaker 1: See, I would say, I would say, I would say
life is meaningless, but you can add meaning to it
and make it meaningful and nice, but you still die
and turn to dust. And I'm okay with that. That's
a nice You know, they've done enough psychedelics to be
cool with becoming part of it.
Speaker 2: I think it's incumbent on on on you to create meaning,
and I think it's hard to create meaning in in
these kind of.
Speaker 1: You can't space, you know, you can't do anything. There's
no there's no tools to there's.
Speaker 2: No cultural exchange. Everyone's living in in you know, like
a fortress that has one ingress and one egress out
of it. You don't even have people passing through biacks.
Speaker 1: Now you're in a matrix. You're in the matrix you
don't and it's it's video games, the gym, a job
that you mostly barely find tolerable or can only tolerate
through drinking and smoking weed. And then it's it's lots
of driving. There's no natural areas around you, and if
they are, you know the forces that be are continuously
trying to destroy them and take them. If they're not
you know, already conserved or put into public land, they
will be taken eventually because the tumor is not going
to stop growing. Uh So that, yeah, there's no meaning.
There's it's a meaningless life. That's why you know, drugs
and what not become very appealing. Or religion. Religion, and again,
like I said, is very important. Yeah, and impressing your
primates like other primates around you, you know, trying to
look good, have an expensive vehicle, very very bottom of
the brain stem existence. There's no insight, there's no philosophy,
there's no creativity, there's no search for a deeper truth
or meaning. So that's what we have. And I'm in
the lower of the United States especially. I think it's
very great to talk about these things. Put it out
there and just put this bloated carcass of this pig
on the table for everyone to see, because I think
about it all the time. And then you think about
that this is what is going in when all the
habitat gets cleared and destroyed and taken out, like especially
in a place like Florida, like they're still doing this
they just demolished some pine rocklands in Miami three or
four years ago to put in a fucking Walmart.
Speaker 2: Well, if you if like what you know your listeners
are living in that area, I would say, go to Orlando.
Go to the Vietnamese neighborhood. It's very cool, like the
food's awesome, nice peace people. It's like the neighborhood where
you start seeing rainbow flag stickers and pro Palestine stickers.
It was like, you know, it's like that's my little signal.
It's like, oh, there's you know, this is going to
be a more nurturing environment.
Speaker 1: For someone like theft style, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we went over to the low gardens
there too, which is like, you know, it's like an
old you know, some rich guy had a plantation out
there and donated it, and so you can see some
neat plants and stuff over there in the low gardens.
So and we my my girlfriend is a rule follower,
so we paid to get in, but it would be
very easy to jump a fence to get into there
for free.
Speaker 1: Of course, support them if you can, but if you're
young and don't have much money, that's another option too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So I so around there's cool stuff. You
know that. That's the thing about the States. You can
find those little pockets where there's cool stuff and cool people.
And so it's down there in Orlando. My my my
girlfriend spent some time down there, so she found the
cool spots. So you know, there is you can find
the community, you can find little pocket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's little pockets of hope. Right, yeah, don't listen
to me. I'm not fucking I mean, thing is you
what do you do? You're hopeful, Get on a box car,
you know, spray your shit under a bridge, start traveling,
leave town, you know, do a couple of minor stints
in jail every now in a while, just as a
byproduct of lifestyle. But you know where yours you are
actually giving pragmatic and hopeful alternatives. I like that. That's good,
thank you, because I failed. But seriously, I think there's
ways again. Yeah, I think, you know, getting interacting with plants,
finding out what was native in a spot, what the landscape,
you know, little hints at what the landscape may have
looked like two hundred years ago, the case of Florida,
even eighty years ago, and start trying to find little
you know, residual patches of that grow those things, plant
them out, get involved with like public parks, create a
native plant movement, something like that. Plants are always the
fucking answer. The living world is always the answer. It's
not just in the escape. It's the fucking answer to
this garbage. If you interact with these things, it will
humble you, will make you a more enlightened person. It
will It's an antacote to the death cult. It's not
just an escape.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's that's the thing. It's a
death cult, right, like human humans are part we're part
of nature, and we we coexisted with it. We we
we live with it because we we are it, and
you just kind of have to get back to that
and away from this. I mean, it's just like any
other death cult. There's been death cults throughout history when
when people are hopeless they turn to stuff like that.
But but you know, you've got to get back to that,
you know, remembering that that you know, we are stewards
of this, we are of this. You know, we're not separate,
we're not aliens, we're not machines.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. The consumer death cult is is it's not
going to last too long. It can't. I don't think
there's no way that it can. It's going to burn
itself out. It could expand a lot and grow a
lot and turn more of the earth into an ashtray
than it already has, but it's going to burn out eventually.
And I think there's just I think it's just a
miserable way to live, too. And I think once people,
once people, once you wake people up to that that
like this is you're miserable, like you are, like face it,
you're this is a miserable way to live, and there's
an alternative. Once people wake up to that, they can
it becomes you know, there's there's a lot more hope.
That's why I do what I do. You know, even
though I'm not helpful, I think there is hope, and
it I getting people to wake up to the living
world is the most important thing to do it really,
is it?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 1: Even if you're not that into plants, you know, everybody
can be a little bit into it and appreciate being
around it. We need to stop seeing it is messy
or you know that it needs to be hedged, or
that the native plants are messy or they're you know,
invite pests or whatever it's. Now you learn to live
with it and steward it. Yeah, whatever your feelings may
be on that word. But anyway, well, well, thank you
so much for coming on to talk on a podcast
about this. I think it's very important. I'm sorry. I
know it must have been emotionally shocking for you and traumatizing,
and it is for me to see this stuff, this
single serving, single use, you know, blown out the spiritual landscape,
but this void, this emptiness, but you know there's there's hope.
That's the point. So anyway, we'll have a good ride
rest of your you know time today on Mantras Beach
and let me know if you see any any of
a beaver, you know, they've been chewing on those fucking
I think it's hackberries or whatever's out there, but you'll
see like beaver gnawings, you know, closer to the lake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's pretty amazing, you know. And they, you know,
we've got the the the piping plover come to visit
every summer now and they've become like celebrities, and I
think that's you know there, if you want to twist that,
you know, our perverted culture make make endangered bird celebrities
that seem to work. They got left alone, you know,
they they actually this is amazing. They were going to
have a music fastiball on the beach and they move
it because of the piping plovers. So that gives me
great hope, because they they the plovers needed a place
lay their eggs, and so they they actually shut down
this huge portion of the beach. Uh, it's not for
humans at all anymore. And Andy they strictly enforce it,
and actually it gets enforced by the birders that are
out there. Really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you pick a species or two. I mean in
fucking New Zealand, they got like some of their fungi
species on the fucking currency. You know, you make these organisms.
You pick a certain organism of plant or animal or
bird or whatever the fuck, and you put it on
the you know, you you put it and you inject
it into the culture so that people are aware of it.
They may not know plants, but everyone will know a
certain bird in an area because they see the fucking
logo everywhere and they see people talking about it, and
they see it. Fucking informational kiosk at a park explaining
the importance of this thing whatever, you know, and.
Speaker 2: It's a it's like a gateway drug into you know,
waking up, you know about what you can do and
what we could have, so you know there is there is,
there is hope and and uh you're more hopeful than
you let on too, so.
Speaker 1: I p well, thank you. Yeah see I think so too.
But it's it's beneath the thick crust of spines and
you know, caustic exodents. So well, thank you, will thank
you so much. Until next time, our Crime pace field
correspondent Will Dorn all right, thanks Joey cool Man