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Speaker 1: Welcome to the crime Pace. My body doesn't pocket. I'm sorry,

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I was just feeling a music there for a minute.

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Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers Chinese Rocks originally written by

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Dde Ramon, so I believe. Anyway, today we've got a

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very special episode for you. We're talking with a crime

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Pace field correspondent who just returned from Florida to talk

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about the American phenomenon known as the car slam. Now

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this is also this phenomenon is also apparently mimicked in

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a very few certain localities in Mexico, many localities in Canada,

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a couple other first world localities. I've seen this kind

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of garbage in Australia as well. Europe. There's not really

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enough land for it, but but it is. It's an

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amazing phenomenon from an anthropological standpoint, It's just it is

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so soul crushing, it crushing and depressing that we thought

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we would give it a closer look, especially from someone

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who's never I can stop talking in that fucking whitewashed

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news caster voice for now, I guess, especially from someone

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who's never experienced before Will has never been to the

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sun Sun Belt. Okay, our crime Pace Field correspondent will

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will Dorin. He's never been to the sun Belt before,

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so this was the first time he's actually spent any

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grandiose amount of time. I wouldn't say grandiose. It was

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only a few days, but that's a lot of time

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to spend in Florida car slums. Okay, but this is

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the first time he spent you know, he lives in

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Chicago's he doesn't even own a car. He's spent his

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whole life living in a city, and now he goes

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down to this spot, you know, to the lower the

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sun Belt, the lower latitude the United States, which is

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dependent on air conditioning and driving and completely eradicates most

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natural or native plant landscapes within the metro area. Okay,

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and is now coming for the farmland that used to

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exist in these places. Uh, don't think about There's no

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sense in thinking about water shortage issues in places like

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Texas or Arizona, those parts of the Sunbelt, because that's

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not you know, we're just kind of like a short

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term burn everything, short term gain, long term loss, burn

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everything down, cash out the bank empty that you know,

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cashing the chips mentality, economic mentality. But either way, this

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is this was new to him, So this was and

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I thought it was. I've been, you know, seeing it

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for a while now, so I was. I was enchanted

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when he called me for emotional support the other day

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to talk about his experiences. He was fucking blown away.

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And I said, I got you, buddy, this is you know,

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I've got extensive experience with this kind of shit. I'd

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be happy to talk to you about it. And so

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that that's what that's what I did. So, uh then

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I figured I would just go into it, you know,

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break it down. So if you live in any of

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these places, don't feel bad. There's ways out. You just

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have to make sure you're staying away from things like

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excessive video game playing, booze, smoking too much weed. Those

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things will make you. They will fucking draw energy out

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of you. Okay. The thing you want to, you know,

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immerse yourself in is is art, in science, in nature

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quote unquote. I don't even like the word nature because

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it's just the real world. Okay, uh, but you know

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what I mean right there. So there's an answer. You

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just art, science, learning nature meant the exercise and finding

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a way to get some physical activity in these places

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without having to go to a fucking gym and rot

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and listen to bad you know, bad techno or pop music,

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whatever shit they play in there, and smell it an

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off gassing plastic, you know. So maybe I don't I

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don't know. Maybe you could find an irrigation, an irrigation

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or drainage canal, or a power line he's meant to

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go jog on or something. But you could still be healthy.

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My point is, you could still be healthy, but you

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live in these anti cultural car and retail slums. So

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don't despair. There's a way out, Okay. You just got

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to make sure you stay on You stay on point.

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That's all. So anywhere we're gonna get into it, we're

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gonna reach out to our field correspondent and talk about

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the all American phenomenon, okay, because this is where it originated,

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all right, just like hot dogs that hot dog. I

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don't think hot dogs Regina here. But you need to

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catch my point, okay, And this is so, this is

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the all American carum, car slum, the all American phenomenon

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of the car and retail slum, okay, and the lawn

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in between the fucking twelve lane roads, the driving being

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trapped in a car, forced car ownership, all that fun stuff.

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All right, anybody who doesn't know what this is. If

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you're listening and we have some listeners from Australia, from Europe, Okay,

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maybe some residents of New York City, you know, who

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will be unfamiliar with this, this will be a real

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eye opener for you. And so I'm happy to present

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this turd on a paper plate for you so you

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can listen to it and dissect this landscape, probably the

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ugliest landscape in the first world. Here we go, Hi,

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and welcome to the Crime Pays Field Correspondent session, where

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we are in the field with our Crime Pays correspondent

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Will Dorn, who just returned from America's sun Belt. Now,

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for those of you who don't know, America's sun Belt

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is a very spiritually depraved region in the lower latitude

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United States, basically stretching from southern Florida up through Atlanta,

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west through Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Fort Worth, Phoenix through

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to Los Angeles. And it's basically one big car slum.

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And as the human tumor, as we like to call

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it here on Crime Pays that's a trademark term, grows

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is the huge and tumor grows.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's basically going to become one continuous metropolitan area, similar

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to the Bama the Boston to Atlanta metropolitan area. And

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i Will grew up in Chicago. He gets around predominantly

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by public transportation and bike and doesn't even own a car.

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Though he can drive, he just chooses not to. And

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this was very shocking for him. So we are here

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to talk with him about his experiences and probably one

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of the most terrible and ugliest landscapes in the first world.

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Will are you there, I'm here, Yeah, so tell us

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will tell us what you saw? You're back in Chicago, now,

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I bet that feels nice. What did you see in Florida?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I mean, it's just it reminds me of

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where my grandma lived in oak Park or in Yeah

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or oak Brook, rather like it's just the same house

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kind of over and over all these developments, not dense

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lawns everywhere, you know, like these big arterial streets that

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are just jammed up with traffic with just just the

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worst Ruby Tuesdays and Starbucks and and publics and I

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don't know, man, it was just some of the most

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depressing soul crushing environments I've ever been to. And the

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weather was so nice. I mean, it's just.

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Speaker 1: The weather's really nice down her in a lower latitude US.

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That's true. Yeah, And what did you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, especially in the winter, this is this is

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when it should be, you know, really enjoyable. And there's

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no one outside. Everyone's just in their car and I

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don't even know where they're going, you know, they're just

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going from place to place.

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Speaker 1: Now, you were down there, what were you? You were

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visiting family down there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. My so, my girlfriend's parents live in

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a town called Claremont, and it's you know, it's it's

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just like a housing development, I guess. Or it's one

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of many down there.

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Speaker 1: Probably didn't even exist, I don't know, forty years ago,

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thirty years ago.

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Speaker 2: It didn't exist, fifteen years ago. It's brand new. And

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everything's brand new. I mean there's literally nothing that's There's

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this one someone built a folly there in the fifties.

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That's like a tower. It's called the Citrus Tower, but

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it's got to be the oldest thing around there. Everything

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else is just just brand new, low density developments. They

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used to live next door to an Orange grove, which

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I'm sure is like its own kind of ecological disaster. Yeah,

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but like, but they they just clear cut all those

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they're all down. Oh and that's the crazy thing too.

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When they put in these new developments, they take out

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all the trees, even all the old trees and stuff.

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Speaker 1: You got to get rid of all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's in a way I don't get do you know

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why they do that? I mean, I don't you like

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living in a place where there's a little bit of shade.

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Speaker 1: No, this is will This is a This is a

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culture that has no respect for any thing that could

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be considered nature or the living world. It's just in

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the way, there's no use for it. It's the you know,

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the only purpose to land. The only purpose for land

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use is either agriculture, which is now done somewhere else,

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maybe China, Okay, maybe you know, lots of importing, thanks

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thanks NAFTA Global trade uh. And the only purpose for

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land use is for is for driving and shopping. And

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you need a spot to you know, to house employees.

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But that's gonna be obsolete soon too due to AI.

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So I don't even know where where they're thinking. Most

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people are gonna get money anymore. It truly is dystopic.

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I mean, there's no this is a this is a

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type of infrastructure that makes obsolete the purposes of going outside.

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You're just going outside to travel from one building to

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another because it's so fucking hot most of the year

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and it's completely dependent on AC and you know, the

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good thing about Florida is probably most of it will

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be destroyed at some point or underwater. There's there's multiple hurricanes.

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Hurricane frequency goes up as temper worms because these you know,

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the energy for these hurricanes is driven by hot, warmer

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ocean water. You know, I was in the ocean off

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the coast of Miami, UH last year, and it felt

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like being in a vata of urine. You know, it

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was literally it was warmer than urine. It was like

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one hundred degrees water temperature. So will this is this

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is a landscape that didn't exist, could not have existed until,

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you know, fifty years ago. You know, humans spent most

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of our our recent history outside interacting with land and

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plants and animals, and now we live in these you know,

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led the fluorescent light, the fucking boxes and then take

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getting another box to drive to another box. You know,

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So this is I just I.

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Speaker 2: Don't get it's so joyless. I don't know where the

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humanity is.

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Speaker 1: It's oh, it's hell. Yeah, it's hell. And it's what

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do you mean community, like interacting with people or what?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that that, but I mean like like ecologically,

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it's an interesting part of Florida. It's on a it's

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the highest point of it where we were outside of

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Orlando there, and it's it's like, you know, like a

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big limestone shell. So they got sinkholes and stuff going

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on there.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It just it just breaks my heart because I would

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like to see it, you know, one hundred years ago,

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you know, and explore, you know, but but they just

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made it look like like no play, there's no there there.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's just there's nothing. It's just it could

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be anywhere. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. It's a

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I think there was actually a Dead Kennedy song. This

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could be anywhere, but anyway. Yes, Well, it's it's exciting

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for me to hear this from me because you sound

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so so fresh faced and innocent, whereas I've been experiencing

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this hell and trying to philosophically digest it for I

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don't know, fifteen years, probably since I first started going

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to desert areas in the sun Belt, and then I

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would have to pass through places like Phoenix, and I

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I thought, this is, this is what hell would be

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like for me. I'm surrounded by people mostly pigs, no offense.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know, especially a place like Phoenix, like it's

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like a it's like a botox cesspool, giant parking lot.

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You know, it's it's a really horrible place for me.

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For people that like being outside and looking at plants

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and and you know, feel a sense of freedom from that,

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it's the antithesis of that. And for you someone who

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enjoys cities, specifically walkable cities, because I like cities too,

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I think with cities, when done right, are the only

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hope for humanity, for human culture and progress and advancement.

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This is why when these these you know, rural folk

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are just shitting on cities all the times. You just

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haven't been to a good one. And you probably have

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some social issues where you're afraid of people or whatever

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and you haven't really dealt with yet. I get that

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you grow up in a load density area, but but

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you're gonna have to get over that at some point.

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Cities can be really great. But you know, for you,

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for someone who likes cities, I'm sure it's terrible because

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it's it's the antithesis of city. It's the antithesis of place.

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There is no culture, there's no regional culture that's specific

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to that place. It's all garbage.

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Speaker 2: Well, like you know, you know, I know you're not

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a city guy, but I you know, it's like the

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exit the existence of a city. Though. You want to

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have all that humanity in a dense place so that

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you can preserve nature, so that we can go out

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there and visit exactly know, and visit the rest of

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the world. But but these places they've created it somehow

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has the worst of being in the country and the

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worst of being in the city. There's there's there's people, people,

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there's too many cars, and yet there's no there's no

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no nature everything that that that should be there, you know,

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like her parents are talking about, there's less and less

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birds every single year, you know. And and they they

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got to go down there, that's where that's where the

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birds go down to winter in Florida. But they they

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scraped the ear of everything that sustains them, you know, And.

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Speaker 1: Oh, they can't use the crape myrtles. They can't use

255
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the crape myrtles in the parking lots outside the fucking

256
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Loubi's or the raws dress for less. It's yeah, there's

257
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no habitat and that's what that's what blows the minds

258
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of people. There's no connection. People are so disconnected. And

259
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I'm not shitting in anyone who chooses to live for

260
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people don't know better. And this is all that's offered

261
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in the area. There is no alternative, you know. But

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it's crazy. I mean, you talk to kids.

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Speaker 2: Like it doesn't It makes me sad for them.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's horrible, it's tragic. It's the American tragedy.

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We've we've taken we had too much land and we

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didn't know what to do with it, and we've we've

267
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used it for the absolute dumbest shit. But I you know,

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I don't I don't implore people to despair who live

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in these places. I I implore them to just figure

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out a way to philosophically deal with the depression is

271
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not the answer, you know, this is all this will

272
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be gone. That's how I take it, you know, reach

273
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some existentialist philosophy, read some fucking nihilism. Embrace it, remember

274
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what you love and what gives you hope. But you

275
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have to kind of live like a fucking madman. You know,

276
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you have to admit, you have to. You're living in

277
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a place that you know is poison and you're but

278
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you're finding a way to not sweep it under the rug,

279
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but to deal with it in laughter, you know, like,

280
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which requires a mild degree of insanity. But it could

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be a positive thing. You can make it positive, you know.

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Speaker 2: I like, but even as a crass like capitalist, these

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places are totally unsustainable. You know, they got to build

284
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infrastructure for all this. It's it's all gonna be just

285
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a suburban ghetto in thirty years when they're not shiny

286
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and new.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Are you saying it's a

288
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Ponzi scheme? Are you saying the suburban sprawls a Ponzi scheme?

289
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Speaker 2: I know, who could ever think a land speculation scheme

290
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in Florida. They've only been doing that for a century

291
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and a half. But I can't believe they continue to

292
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do it. It's just it's it's breathtaking and its stupidity

293
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and monstrosity.

294
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Speaker 1: I think I think most people there, I think most

295
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of the investors and developers and leaders there know that

296
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it's going to be gone soon and so this is

297
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all just a short term empty the bank, cash in

298
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the chips, you know, uh, fuck all the holes until

299
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it's done and that's you know, and just and then

300
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,399
just it's get rid of it. I don't, I don't,

301
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but I don't understand. What really surprises me is I

302
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,600
see people who live in these places getting defensive about it,

303
00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:33,960
and which like they get pride about it.

304
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Speaker 2: Some of them, especially what act do you hear them like?

305
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,519
Speaker 1: There's no logical they can't. I mean, anyone who's seen

306
00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:45,840
what like what a pleasant life can be like, you know,

307
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where you have public space that doesn't require shopping, and

308
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you've got places to go outside and look at other

309
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,600
life forms. I mean, I don't understand how people can't

310
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enjoy quote nature. I'm calling it nature because I mean,

311
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I hate that word, but I don't know what else

312
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:03,759
to call it. For lay people the living world I

313
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,039
call I mean, I don't understand people who don't appreciate

314
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that that's what we fucking evolved with, you know, for

315
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,359
hundreds of thousands of years. I don't understand how people

316
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can not care about it and be so disconnected and

317
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think that it doesn't matter. But these places don't have

318
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The only nature that's left is what's able to exist

319
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on the margins of this garbage, you know, like in

320
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a drainage ditch or a power line esement there on

321
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the margins of the agriculture. But now all the agriculture

322
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is getting scraped away. So these marginal spaces where you know,

323
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snakes and cool lizards and birds and whatever fucking plants

324
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could you know, could could survive the original land scraping

325
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one hundred fifty hundred years ago, fifty years ago. That's

326
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those places are all getting destroyed now too, because they

327
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take everything when they build a fucking housing slum. And

328
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then the kids that grow up in these places have nowhere.

329
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I mean, there's you don't get to be a kid.

330
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You're stuck inside, you're on fucking TikTok in video games.

331
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There's no purpose to going outside, and it's hot as

332
00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:05,519
fuck most of the time, and so and the other

333
00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:08,240
thing that drives me nuts here. So if you need exercise,

334
00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:10,559
because everyone still wants to look good, right, because we're

335
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,640
you know, primates, trying to fucking whatever. If everyone's still

336
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,160
trying to look good. So what you do You go

337
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,720
to the gym where you're inhaling plastic off gassing and

338
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:22,559
in there with other slobs listening the horrible music. It's

339
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:25,039
not like a gym is not that's not like a

340
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,720
good way. It's it's a it's a necessity in some places,

341
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but it's not the preferred way to get physical activity

342
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,920
or exercise. If you live in a place where there's

343
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public transit and walking, you're getting exercise, you're burning calories

344
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just by existing. But not in the car slum, you're

345
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trapped in a car. The only walking you do is

346
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through the parking lot.

347
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Speaker 2: I saw I saw commercial down there. I couldn't believe

348
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,839
it was real, that it wasn't like an SNL send

349
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,720
up or something. But it was two people. It was

350
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a commercial for a cars and it was two people

351
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,480
talking about talking about why they're to buy this forward truck.

352
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,960
And uh, the one the guy goes, he goes. You know,

353
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I drive to work every day and I hate my job.

354
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He goes, but driving to work is the best part

355
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,119
of my day. And I was like, oh.

356
00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:17,319
Speaker 1: God, Can you fucking imagine can you fucking imagine it?

357
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Speaker 2: That's the tack they're using the cell cars, like people

358
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,480
relate to that, like you know, I mean, going going

359
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,160
to work isn't my favorite part of the day, but

360
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,000
I ride my bike five miles to work, and you know,

361
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at least my blood's moving a little bit, and and

362
00:19:31,319 --> 00:19:32,839
you know, when I get there, even during the winter,

363
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,720
I'm warm already.

364
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 1: But also also when you're getting fucking physical activity, after

365
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,480
ten minutes, you get dop dopamine and serotonin being released.

366
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That's a that's an that's an adaptive benefit, that's a

367
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,559
that's a result of evolution. So it keeps us moving,

368
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,200
you know. So when we're fucking evolved hunting and chasing

369
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,839
things or foraging food whatever, that kept us wanting to

370
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,240
do it. You know, it's this idea of like I'm

371
00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:01,799
just gonna go to the jim and run on the

372
00:20:01,839 --> 00:20:05,359
treadmill and listen to this horrible techno music they play

373
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,880
in here, and hopefully hope that like people check me out.

374
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,599
You know, I'm gonna go lift weights. So now I

375
00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:13,799
got those fucking chicken legs, but I'm all jacked up

376
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,160
up top. I mean it's it's horrible. It's a horrible life.

377
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,119
And then you think about you mix this with the

378
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,400
culture of heavy religion, in this case Christianity, right, because

379
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,400
in the Sun Belt especially, there's a lot of deranged,

380
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,119
especially the Baptist shit, like the really you know, the

381
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:36,160
fucking intense evangelical Jesus is the only reason. You live

382
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,480
in a make believe world made by people. There's no reality.

383
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,039
You have no awareness of how the ground beneath your

384
00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:45,359
feet was formed, how you came to be, natural selection, evolution,

385
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,599
how old the earth is, what any of the life

386
00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:51,079
forms are around you. It's a fucking you're you're living

387
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,839
in a pod, You're living in a matrix. It's fucking

388
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,119
unreal that this is.

389
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 2: You know, Joe, you sound like you need a spa

390
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,279
day and maybe, you know, like a health ty. You know,

391
00:21:00,519 --> 00:21:01,519
maybe they'll get your head right.

392
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,519
Speaker 1: That's what I think about these like these kids, like

393
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:04,960
if you live in if you grow up in a

394
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,000
place like that, why not do drugs? Why not just yeah,

395
00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:10,640
why not just smoke your life away, smoke yourself into

396
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,039
a comba every night and smoke weeds so you can escape,

397
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,440
you know, at least that's gonna be more sustainable than alcohol.

398
00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:20,680
The alcohol is really important though, especially in many of

399
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,000
these Southern stakes, because alcohol numbs you from feeling any

400
00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:26,079
of this. I mean, your life can be miserable, but

401
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,400
you can just drown yourself in booze. You don't have

402
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,680
to really deal with it, and then your life span

403
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:33,440
is gonna be, you know, twenty years shorter probably anyway.

404
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,960
You might get the UIs along the way, but you're

405
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,000
gonna you know, you're you're basically numbing yourself and shortening

406
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,480
your lifespan so you don't have to deal with this

407
00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:43,319
kind of life some more so, I would just implore

408
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,759
people to drop out, start riding fucking freight ranks, become

409
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:48,880
a bum more pleasant, to spray your shit under a

410
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,240
bridge and then hop on a fucking box car and

411
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,279
ride around town, you know, occasionally doing minor stints in

412
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,359
jail for misdemeanors. Not to participate in this shit, right, Yeah, it's.

413
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: Better than you know. I mean that they get you

414
00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:03,559
in a loop there too, because if you do drink,

415
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,200
you know, you got to drive ten to ten miles

416
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,319
away to where you can drink, and then you get it.

417
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,319
You get a dewey on the way back right, and

418
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,880
then you're in You're in a car cereal loop, you know.

419
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,960
So you owe money in your car, you owe money

420
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,960
to your lawyer for the Dewey. You can't live anywhere,

421
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,960
that's that you can't that you cannot drive to. I

422
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,799
mean it's just they and there's no bus, you know,

423
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,480
there's no train. So they've just got you in this

424
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,359
this debt and depression cycle. You know, it's would.

425
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: You would you you wouldn't bike in any of these areas?

426
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,400
Would you just explain to us what the what the

427
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,960
sun Belt road infrastructure looks like?

428
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: Good lord, So I saw a couple like bike lanes,

429
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,400
and you know it's it's you know, we say in

430
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,279
the biking community, paints and protection. It's just a painted lane,

431
00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:56,240
no ballards, no curbs along a fifty mile an hour road.

432
00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:58,519
And and as a biscuse, I can tell you at

433
00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:01,720
least in Chicago any given day, a third of people

434
00:23:01,839 --> 00:23:05,240
are looking at their phone. And you smell weed everywhere too,

435
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,599
And I don't think that's different down in Florida. So

436
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,720
you've got distracted drivers. Cars are getting bigger and bigger.

437
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:14,119
These electric cars weigh eight thousand pounds you know, they

438
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,000
might not even feel you if they run into you

439
00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:18,279
down there. I would never bite down there, except on

440
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:18,960
the sidewalks.

441
00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: Well, was that I both the road over a bug? Right?

442
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:23,559
Speaker 2: Was that a turtle?

443
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: You know?

444
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: Fuck it, we're on the way to the liquor store.

445
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this speed limit on somebody'se fucking just municipal

446
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,960
roads is insane. And in Texas we have the Frontage Road.

447
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,359
It's a one way frontage road that's about five lanes,

448
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:38,160
and the speed limits seventy. It's about the you know,

449
00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:41,799
maybe it's fifty, but everybody goes seventy or eighty, and

450
00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:45,359
everyone drives like a pig, like they're just riding your

451
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,359
ass to get to the red light that's two hundred

452
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,720
feet in front of you. I mean, this whole this

453
00:23:49,839 --> 00:23:55,079
infrastructure encourages pig behavior. It encourages slob behavior. It's why

454
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,799
when Europeans or someone else sees Americans, you know, behaving

455
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:02,799
in a certain way, and we do have a reputation

456
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,039
as pigs and slobs. They you know, this is why.

457
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:09,519
It's we are doing our patriotic duty by being pigs

458
00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:13,160
and slabs. We're doing what this is what society produces

459
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:17,759
garbage in garbage. Oh, you've got a infrastructure like this.

460
00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:20,079
This is the type of person and it's not even

461
00:24:20,079 --> 00:24:22,200
their fault because they're not thinking about who they are,

462
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,119
and no one's got any insight in these places, right,

463
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,039
They're just products of their environment. And so this is

464
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,400
you know, this is where it comes from. This explains

465
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,440
the American mentality. Now you're in a city like Chicago,

466
00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:36,440
which is very old, it's got you know, the blocks

467
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,039
were already built before all this miserable shit was mainly

468
00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:43,440
created in the fifties and sixties, so there's only so

469
00:24:43,519 --> 00:24:45,480
much they could do. I was amazed that people drive

470
00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:48,640
in Chicago. I mean, it's a it's fucking horrible driving

471
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,960
in Chicago. Parking is a pain in the ass, takes

472
00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:52,920
longer to get work.

473
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone I work with drives, you know, and they

474
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,319
you know, they always they're always offered me rides and

475
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,440
you know, it's it's too cold. But if you know,

476
00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:03,720
if you take a ride to where I live, I

477
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,119
can get there much faster biking, you know, and it's

478
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,759
more enjoyable. I mean, it's you are putting your your

479
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:11,519
life of risk a little bit, you know, with the

480
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,079
distracted driving and everything like that. But you know, have

481
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,839
you've been doing it for long enough you kind of.

482
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: I used to look up the rhythm. I used to

483
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,440
love bike. I didn't even own a car until I

484
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,319
was like twenty five. I used to love I got

485
00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:23,599
in a bike when I was like twenty and I

486
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,319
was like, this is fucking great. It's free. It feels amazing.

487
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,759
I would smoke weed and then bike to Milwaukee from

488
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:33,440
Chicago along that Lakefront trail, and that was when I

489
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,480
first realized, like, wow, this feels good. It's like addictive.

490
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:39,079
This is the closest you can get to flying, like

491
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,759
feeling that breeze in your hair. You know.

492
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: But and I don't get why the libertarians don't like it.

493
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,599
You know, it doesn't require a license, you know, you

494
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,119
gotta be individual.

495
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: They lean right, and it's oil company propaganda, and they

496
00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:56,400
probably since they lean right, they're probably you know, it's

497
00:25:56,759 --> 00:25:59,440
the meathead mentality, is that like biking is for pussy's

498
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:01,680
I think, you know, it's just this kind of anti

499
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,960
intellectual more of this anti intellectual you know, yunkhead brutish shit.

500
00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:09,319
It's crazy though, did you did you ever see that

501
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,400
guy Joey love that Puerto Rican bike messenger. I ever

502
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,440
tell you about him in Chicago? Is he still around?

503
00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:16,279
I don't know.

504
00:26:16,279 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: I gotta I gotta look him up. That's a good question.

505
00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. He used to bike with the full hockey regelia

506
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,359
and a football him and he'd take those Neon zip

507
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,279
ties and tie him through his ship, you know, so

508
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,279
that like if anyone hit him, he would completely fuck

509
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,960
up their car, you know. Yeah, it was shoulder pads

510
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,319
and shipped too. Was great. It's kind of what you

511
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:34,640
gotta done. You gotta do here, you know, But I can't.

512
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,880
You can't. For me. It's hard because I get I

513
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,000
get mad. I've spent a lifetime full of you know,

514
00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:44,119
hate for authority and very you know, salty. But and

515
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,799
so I'm trying to dial that down. And that's why

516
00:26:46,839 --> 00:26:49,720
I think the nihilism approach was very important. You know,

517
00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:53,359
nihilism will also praying that all this shit collapses at

518
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,039
some point, you know, if it doesn't remedy itself. And

519
00:26:56,039 --> 00:26:58,640
I don't think I don't think it's going to. I

520
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,720
can't see anything that would be bad for the economy

521
00:27:02,319 --> 00:27:03,079
that we've created.

522
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like, and what is the economy?

523
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: Is it?

524
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: People? No, it's something else.

525
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:11,759
Speaker 1: I think it's make believe. It's make it's make believe.

526
00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:15,440
I think it's it's uh. And they can be constructed

527
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,240
on different things. But you know, that's the way I

528
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,279
used to say that stop humanity should all. I mean,

529
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:24,240
I still do, but it's I meant stop humanity from

530
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:25,839
taking over the world. But I would always get these

531
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:29,000
comments from these you know, like fucking twenty five social

532
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,000
just twenty five year old social justic kids, be like,

533
00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:34,279
it's it's capitalism, it's not humanity, Like, okay, well, but

534
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:37,799
humanity invented capitalism. This is the current state. The dominant

535
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,359
number of humans do this. It's second. I mean, first off,

536
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,480
it's a joke, but second, you know, this is where

537
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:47,640
do we go? For me? Like, there's no better system

538
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,559
that we have right now than anybody's invented that I

539
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:54,720
can point to, you know, I mean there could be there,

540
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,680
There certainly could be. I could think of some, but

541
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,720
but it's it's an anthropocentric mentality. That's the Capitalism is

542
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,240
anthropost centrism. Capitalism is fucking pure poison, especially when you've

543
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,880
deregulated it to the fact like we have.

544
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,799
Speaker 2: But it's gonna be a fun four years, you know, deregulation.

545
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:13,039
Speaker 1: It's gonna be it's gonna be Reagan two point oh,

546
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:16,279
it's gonna be I don't think, you know, you hear

547
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:18,400
people being like, he's got to bring back the constat trash.

548
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,960
I think it's gonna be Reagan two point oh. But

549
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:23,319
it's gonna be good for the eventual collapse of the

550
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,839
United States. Like the dumber you make people, the richer

551
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,039
you make the one percent, the more inequality. There's probably

552
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:33,519
gonna be a couple more CEO whackings, you know, or attempts.

553
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,680
It's gonna be massive civil unrest will probably be like

554
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,519
South Africa at some point, like razor wire on all

555
00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:41,799
the you know, rich people living in these compounds with

556
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,960
razor wire and stuff. But uh, you know, I'm I'm

557
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,519
really sad for the extinctions. Will. Probably this sounds really negative. Will,

558
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:51,240
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to implicate you on this,

559
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:54,200
but you negative. I'm really sad for the for the

560
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:56,960
extinctions that are probably coming. It's why it's important to

561
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,599
document it all now and preserve it as much as

562
00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:01,119
you can. Learned to grow it and everything.

563
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,799
Speaker 2: But but yeah, it's the people responsible are never the

564
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:08,119
ones that face the consequences at all. The people that

565
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,279
get hurt are you know, the little people.

566
00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:13,799
Speaker 1: They've got enough wealth to insulate themselves from any of

567
00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:16,960
the consequences of their actions. You know, I think that

568
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,039
the hope is in educating people on what you know,

569
00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:26,599
these motherfuckers are doing, uh, and the foolishness of it all,

570
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,880
and how we can provide an antidote, like what would?

571
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,599
What would? I couldn't believe the this was this was

572
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,680
not maybe so loud, but I certainly saw markings of it.

573
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,039
But like the right wing response to the fifteen Minute City,

574
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,440
they were like that, this sounds like authority, This sounds

575
00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:47,400
like tyranny, This is tyrannical. I was like, it sounds

576
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,240
tyrannical to be forced to own a car and not

577
00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:52,640
be able to do what you've evolved to do, which

578
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,160
is walk outside. You can't fucking walk anywhere. You're trapped

579
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,880
in a bubble. You might as well be on Mars. Like,

580
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,519
that doesn't sound like tyringy to you. You're forced to

581
00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:05,680
own this thing that takes so much fucking healthy you know,

582
00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:11,880
car insurance payments, you know, the fucking money. It's such

583
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,799
a huge industry, that all the fucking maintenance, the oil changes,

584
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:17,319
the fuel, the fucking you're forced to do this shit

585
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,279
like you have no alternative.

586
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:23,759
Speaker 2: Have you ever gotten into uh you know, like uh,

587
00:30:24,519 --> 00:30:27,319
you know, a kerfuffle on the road. People aren't happy

588
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:30,359
that are driving, They're not happy there. I've seen the

589
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:31,880
angriest people.

590
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: It's it.

591
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: It it'll take like really nice people and make them

592
00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:38,759
furious and say things that you couldn't believe that that

593
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:39,839
little old lady said.

594
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,759
Speaker 1: You know, it's something that's a primate brain. It's crazy.

595
00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:43,880
It's fucking crazy.

596
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: But maybe that's all part of the right wing outrage engine,

597
00:30:47,559 --> 00:30:50,920
you know, is that they there, there's there's you know,

598
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680
I guess you get energy from being furious all the time.

599
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:56,359
You know, that's a certain kind of energy you get.

600
00:30:56,559 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: Well if everybody's mad all the time though too, and

601
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,519
there's I mean there's plenty on the left that are

602
00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:03,720
mad all the time as well. True, but you know,

603
00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:06,000
if if if people are mad all the time, then

604
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,359
that's good for the oligarchy and it keeps people distracted.

605
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,480
And you know, it's uh, it's I mean, it's crazy.

606
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:16,359
It's crazy that it's like that, and it's It's also

607
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,799
good for the algorithms. It keeps them focused on ship,

608
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,200
that keeps them mad, and it keeps them paying attention.

609
00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:25,720
And then you sneak ads in. You know, it's a

610
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:27,960
it's the way to be. It's and no one's am

611
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,720
into it. It's like I see left and right doing

612
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:32,839
it all the fucking same. Uh. What we need is

613
00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:35,960
for left and right to come together, you know, and

614
00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:39,279
point out how fuck this is, and that they're being

615
00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:42,359
deprived of things that humans evolved to do, which is

616
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,359
bond with land and other life forms and spend time outside,

617
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:48,519
you know, not be forced to get your exercise with fucking.

618
00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,519
Speaker 2: Gym, with with the with the at least a little

619
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:54,759
bit optimism and to blow a little smoke up your

620
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:57,559
ass is that your crime pace is very popular at

621
00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:01,559
the uh the bougie school where I work with the

622
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,680
high school students, Well they got into it through Chancosaurus,

623
00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:10,839
but now they're now they're into crime pace. So you know,

624
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,279
that gives me great hope, you know, because you know

625
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:18,319
a lot of those people will have real power, you know,

626
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,319
be making decisions going forward, you know, and just I

627
00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:25,720
hope they remember, Oh god, I hope they do better.

628
00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:29,039
Than you know, than our generation, of the generations before.

629
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: But well they're there. I mean that's nice to hear

630
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:34,440
because you know, I grew up being bullied by rich kids.

631
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,920
There's a fucking plant check group dominated by rich kids

632
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,359
that fucking hate me. But but but it's no one

633
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,160
listens to them anyway. But anyway, but there, you know,

634
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,359
these people are in northern latitudes. This is a this

635
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,640
is a sun belt issue. This is where the culture

636
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,200
of the car slum is most dominant. It's most dominant

637
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,039
in the the lower latitude US and I think parts

638
00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:00,799
of Mexico are trying to emulate this ship. You know,

639
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,759
Mexico has a very materialistic culture, or can have in

640
00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:09,359
certain places, you know, very materialistic and wealth worshiping and

641
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:14,359
class stratified, especially in the cities, not of course in

642
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,039
like you know, indigenous indigenous mountain communities. But I don't see.

643
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:22,519
And this is in Canada too. This is certainly there's garbage,

644
00:33:22,559 --> 00:33:25,440
Like I've seen Canadian landscapes like around Toronto that look

645
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,359
as hideous as this sun belt shit. But it really

646
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,200
takes changing the added you know, I think people associate

647
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:35,880
cars with freedom, and if you're going on a road, trip.

648
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,079
That makes sense, but there's no freedom in these car slums.

649
00:33:40,319 --> 00:33:43,319
It takes forever to get places, and they're so they're

650
00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:46,960
spread so far apart, you know, And I remember living

651
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,799
in cities. You know, your fucking day would be filled

652
00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:54,160
with so much activity because everything's so dense, and you

653
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,720
could bike everywhere. If you let a fulfilling life, you

654
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,839
would bike to work and you'd stop at a fucking

655
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,599
coffee shop, or you'd stop to get a fucking stop

656
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,799
at a bakery, and there's people walking around, and there's

657
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,599
you know, it's active, full fulfilling life. You don't get that.

658
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,320
You're waiting at stoplights in this ship. You're sucking on

659
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,559
the tailpipe emissions of the pig in front of you.

660
00:34:16,559 --> 00:34:19,519
You're disconnected from people. It's you know, if you see

661
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:22,840
someone on a bike, if they're probably a poor person

662
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,000
or someone some immigrant going to work, or somebody with

663
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:29,599
the uy's right, and there's no I mean, there's not

664
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,599
even bike lanes where I live. That's ridiculous, and you'd

665
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,800
be mad to use to use them, you know. I mean.

666
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,119
The the least they could do in these car slum

667
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,239
shitholes is build I saw this in like college, Park,

668
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,880
Maryland's build a trail, have like a bike trail in

669
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,599
between two of the major roads, like you know how

670
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,840
like major roads will be spaced the same direction, parallel,

671
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,800
major roads spaced two miles apart, and then in between

672
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,599
them you'd have a you know, only bike trail that

673
00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:00,320
you could get you know, used to get around, so

674
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,280
that at least you've got the emissions on either side

675
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,760
of you and the beautiful view of a highway. No no, no,

676
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,880
the bike trail. No no, no. Like in College Park, the

677
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,239
bike trail was surrounded by a green buffer zone. That's

678
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,679
the other thing. There were no cars. It was really cool.

679
00:35:14,679 --> 00:35:16,360
It was a nice model. Yeah. I was like, this

680
00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:18,199
is amazing. Why don't and they just had it there

681
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,800
because it's college kids probably, But you could use that

682
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,800
as a model everyere Now. I don't expect that to

683
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,840
happen because there's no way to make money off of it,

684
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,920
and there's you know, biking is inherently you know, anti

685
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,000
consumer because it doesn't require all of it.

686
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:37,639
Speaker 2: But is it though, Like you know, I like over here,

687
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,239
you know, they've done studies here in Chicago where it's

688
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,880
if you can walk or bike to the little shops

689
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,719
and stuff. People spend money, you know, and it it

690
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,760
takes a lot. People don't actually.

691
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the activity of biking doesn't require fuel

692
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,920
and all changes and tires, and there's not a hole

693
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,840
you're not driving this thing that requires three hundred dollars

694
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:00,960
monthly payments, you know, like there's a whole such a

695
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,119
huge economy built around car ownership, you know, because we

696
00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:08,039
don't make anything here anymore. It's all just tech garbage

697
00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:14,000
and service service economy and selling people subscriptions online like

698
00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:19,719
service you know, online service subscriptions and shit. So I

699
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:20,880
don't know where do you see what do you think

700
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,800
will happen? You? Where do you see this all going?

701
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,079
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we're doomed. But you know, I

702
00:36:26,119 --> 00:36:30,039
hopefully if we could frame you know, walking and biking

703
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:33,840
as like rugged and individualistic, you know, if they could

704
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,519
rebrand it somehow and not make it so politicized, you know,

705
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,719
or politicize it in the way that that it's like

706
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,800
you know this, you know what this is a little

707
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,039
trick that doctors don't want you to know. If you

708
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:46,920
walk in your.

709
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,079
Speaker 1: Stuff, it'll never happen. It'll never happen because especially the

710
00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:55,000
I think like the macho and this just plays into

711
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:58,599
evolutionarily speaking, where humans come from, and especially where the

712
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,440
roots of American culture is rooted in this this macho

713
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:04,800
mouth breather. And you could be all that. You could

714
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,239
be like macho and fucking what you know without having

715
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,320
to and still be an intellectual. But that's not the

716
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,639
American way. It's anti pragmancy. You can sell you can

717
00:37:14,679 --> 00:37:18,239
literally sell people poison as long as you tell them

718
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,760
it makes them look tougher, at least men American men.

719
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,239
You know, Yeah, you could sell them things that will

720
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,199
kill them in twenty years off if you tell them

721
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:29,679
it makes them look tougher. Just suck it up. This

722
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,639
whole fucking culture, this anti intellectual culture. It's crazy. It's

723
00:37:33,679 --> 00:37:37,159
fucking wild that you know. This is why like environmentalism

724
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:40,280
and climate change. You see these fucking chads online, they're

725
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,000
like twenty five Joe Rogan Bros. Just parroting oil company

726
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:47,920
propaganda because environmentalism and all this is seen as like

727
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,159
a weak. It's it's crazy to me. It's it's such

728
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:55,639
a like they're being hoodwinked, you know, I mean like.

729
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 2: In kids too, you know, because I when we were

730
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,360
in high school and stuff. We were like, maybe it

731
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,039
was the music we were listening to and stuff, but

732
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:06,119
we were anti corporate, you know, like anti all that stuff.

733
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:10,679
And it just seems so, I don't know, anti young

734
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:16,039
to be parroting the AstroTurf talking points of a fucking

735
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:17,960
multinational conglomerate.

736
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean you got to be a moron

737
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,480
to do it. I think that's definitely part of you

738
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:25,960
can't be like, you can't be thinking about you know,

739
00:38:26,119 --> 00:38:29,840
I don't know, it's this whole repackaging of like conservatism

740
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,519
is somehow rebellious. Is fucking wild to me, but that's

741
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:37,280
what's been done. You've repackaged, you know, being a fucking

742
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,199
seventy year old, angry white guy is somehow rebellious, and

743
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,880
then you package it in a way that you get

744
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,480
twenty five year old kids and twenty year old kids

745
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,320
sucking it up and buying it.

746
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

747
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,039
Speaker 1: I had never seen this before, but it's this is

748
00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:56,159
the thing now, especially in Texas. It's fucking crazy. And

749
00:38:56,199 --> 00:38:57,840
then you try to argue with any of these fucks,

750
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,960
they don't have shit to say, they could, you know,

751
00:39:00,039 --> 00:39:04,400
they fall apart and then probably just result the you know, uh,

752
00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:07,119
ad hominem attacks. I don't know, but I've never heard

753
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:10,280
anything intelligent like I'm not I'm not. I'm certainly not

754
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,119
one to just go with the crowd with my herd.

755
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,079
You know, I'm gonna if someone's saying stupid shit, it's

756
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:18,079
gonna feel weird and me, it's gonna feel icky to me.

757
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:20,039
I can't go with it. That's why I couldn't, you know,

758
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:22,880
I couldn't really end up standing around with all the

759
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:29,400
fucking quote unquote woke social justice self flagellating white progressives.

760
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,960
You know that I was around in the Bay Area,

761
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:35,599
you know, like the fucking identitarians that kind of ruined leftism,

762
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,440
ruined the American I couldn't. It just felt phony after

763
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:40,159
a certain point.

764
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's there's joylessness in that too, you know.

765
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,719
It's it's like I I think, I think that's you know,

766
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,559
a big part of a big part of this whole,

767
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:53,599
you know, like moving your body and being out there

768
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,039
it brings me joy. And I think joy is an

769
00:39:56,039 --> 00:39:58,320
act of rebellion, especially when you're not when you're not

770
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:58,880
paying for.

771
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: Joy and genuine freedom. Yeah, that's why that's why I

772
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,719
go to wild habitats. And try to fucking interact with

773
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,000
other living organisms. Is because I get a sense of

774
00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:10,920
freedom for that. But my point is that you can

775
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,840
manipulate anybody left or right by exploiting the traits of

776
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,000
the human animal. And the traits of the human animal.

777
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:22,239
The human primate is conformity, needing validation from peers, wanting

778
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,599
to be our social dynamics, wanting to feel part of

779
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:28,519
a group. No one wants to feel ostracized from the group,

780
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:31,239
you know, they want They might feel ostracized from the

781
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,280
large group, but they feel out, they feel part of

782
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,760
another group, and so nobody wants that, you know. So

783
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,880
that's why I like a lot of the these movements

784
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,400
are held together by people that are afraid of what,

785
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:49,519
you know, being fucking ostracized or shunned or shamed. But conversy,

786
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:51,440
you can convince people to do shit that's bad for

787
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,519
them as long as you validated somehow socially, you know,

788
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,000
like live in a car slim and defend the car

789
00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:03,159
slum lifestyle, and be against biking and be against walking outside,

790
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,159
and you know, and and defend the lawn and all

791
00:41:07,159 --> 00:41:10,559
this shit. Oh, this garbage, the the.

792
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: The worst, the worst of all of it, I think,

793
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,039
And this wasn't even in this was in Georgia. We

794
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,360
stopped at a BUCkies, and uh, if you wanted to

795
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,159
still the worst parts of all of American culture and

796
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:24,639
the sun Belt and everything, it's right there at the BUCkies.

797
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,360
It's like it's butts to nuts in there. It was

798
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,880
so crowded. There's one hundred gas pumps. Everyone's being rude.

799
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,840
There's no there's no you know. And then they're selling

800
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,199
these like right wing like trinkets in there, you know,

801
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,159
like mugs with uh with uh don't tread on Me flags,

802
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,079
And I was just like, I mean, to their credit.

803
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:48,159
I got a big iced tea there for ninety nine cents.

804
00:41:48,159 --> 00:41:48,920
That was quite good.

805
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've only been in one once, but it seems

806
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,559
like a lovely place to witness like a road raide

807
00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:56,920
shooting or something, or like yet two large, you know,

808
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,159
obese suburban men beating each other with pipes or something,

809
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,960
you know, because somebody got that they took their place

810
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,320
in line at the gas pump. That would be a

811
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,079
wonderful thing to see at a BUCkies.

812
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: It was upsetting. I'm my antidote today. I'm gonna go

813
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,719
walk over and look at the lake. Go look at

814
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,119
Lake Michigan and just meditate on that is.

815
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: What's it like right there here on December twenty ninth.

816
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: Oh, it's beautiful and there's not that many people down there.

817
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,519
So I'm gonna go over to Montrose Beach and it's

818
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,480
it's about thirty five forty right now, not too bad,

819
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:29,119
but it's sunny.

820
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: God, it's so much warmer than it's been for.

821
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's real, man. The winners are getting warmer.

822
00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:39,360
And well, it's like the seasons have been pushed back,

823
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,480
so like November is pretty warm now, and we get

824
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:47,519
the winter more like December, January, February, but it's more

825
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,280
like Seattle asque a lot of days, you know, it's

826
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,679
kind of rainy and yeah, dreary, you know, but not

827
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,639
the big not as many of the big snowstorms that

828
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:57,480
we used to get.

829
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: So but then then spring comes earlier too.

830
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:04,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this fan the spring is really nice. The summers.

831
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,599
Summers are hotter now, a little bit hotter than they

832
00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:07,000
used to be.

833
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: They got beavers, They got beavers at Montrose Beach.

834
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:15,039
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a I I haven't seen him, No,

835
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:17,199
my brother's seen him. Out there. He goes there all

836
00:43:17,199 --> 00:43:18,639
the he goes there every day, he goes to take

837
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:19,880
a walk there. He lives right by the.

838
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: It was a fucking river ouder in the Chicago River too,

839
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,840
I guess. I know.

840
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,519
Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing that that the remediation efforts on the

841
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:30,440
river are really I mean, I went kayaking in the

842
00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:34,639
Chicago River about fifteen years ago and it's stunk. And

843
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:38,199
it's now they've got these like rafts of vegetation they've

844
00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:40,719
put in. They put in this whole river walk on

845
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,559
the north side that it's it's like, I think they

846
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:47,679
only had three species of fish there thirty years ago,

847
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,280
and now there's dozens and dozens.

848
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: So that's better.

849
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 2: The more it gives you a little bit.

850
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: Of hope, I want people to start doing doing what

851
00:43:55,519 --> 00:43:58,679
Urban Rivers is doing. I want like gorilla projects where

852
00:43:58,679 --> 00:44:01,880
they're creating floating habitat match on the Chicago River, just

853
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,639
some fucking random group of kids or something that would

854
00:44:04,679 --> 00:44:05,719
be amazing.

855
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,599
Speaker 2: And they're doing that more around. There's a school right

856
00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:12,360
by here too, where the the kids have put in

857
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,159
like a prairie garden. So it's all it's all, you know,

858
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,719
because this where we are right now used to be dunes.

859
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,719
We're on a ridge right here by the ancient lake

860
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,159
shoreline where I live, and so it's like the perfect

861
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,920
environment for prairie grasses, all kinds of cool flowers and stuff.

862
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,760
And I think people are kind of wisen up to

863
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,079
that and bringing that back. I mean, there's not a

864
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:41,320
ton of you know, space for it, but but you know,

865
00:44:41,519 --> 00:44:44,639
every every little one you know, is something, and that's

866
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,880
you know, like you've been to my folks and they've

867
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,360
got a natural lawn and it's an oasis during during

868
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,840
the summer. Everyone else's lawn is dead, and they've got

869
00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:59,199
there's dragonflies, there's butterflies, they've got lizards, they've got frogs,

870
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,480
there's insects buzzing over it all the time. But just

871
00:45:02,519 --> 00:45:05,719
that little patch, and everyone else you know in the

872
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,079
town are like, oh, is you're is that an abandoned

873
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:09,719
house or you know whatever.

874
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: I can't but see that needs to change too, Like

875
00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:14,480
that's part of the thing is changing culture. You need

876
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:17,119
to change the culture by normalizing this shit. I can't

877
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,639
there's no there's no point for a lawn. It's just

878
00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:22,480
a spot for a dog. This shit, I can't understand that.

879
00:45:22,519 --> 00:45:24,159
You know, you create a little ten foot by ten

880
00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:26,880
foot patch if you get enough property, you know, or

881
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,599
you take them to the park, or if you're doing

882
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,800
you know, playing fucking some sort of sport or something.

883
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:32,679
But I can't imagine.

884
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just seems a point we got the kids,

885
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,960
you know, or whatever. But you know, I mean, that

886
00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:38,880
was the thing. I mean, I told you down there,

887
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,400
down there in Claremont, Florida, I took an hour and

888
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,440
a half walk I saw. I saw two people walking.

889
00:45:44,519 --> 00:45:46,400
One of them was walking a little toy dog, a

890
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,440
little a man walking a toy I think most people

891
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,800
just walk to walk their dogs. And then I saw

892
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,559
one kid playing basketball in their driveway. But but everyone else,

893
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,000
all these all these perfectly manicured lawns. No one's doing shit.

894
00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:01,360
And this is the time of the year with seventy

895
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,159
eight degrees, it was perfect.

896
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: There's no point going outside though. What is there to see? Right,

897
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,159
There's nothing to see, there's nothing to interact with. If

898
00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:10,880
you've got like a little patch of woodlands behind the house,

899
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,239
it's well maintained and not filled with invasive species, you

900
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,000
could have a trail back there. You can go walk

901
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:17,239
through there there's trees, to look at bugs, to look

902
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,280
at birds, to look at plants, there's But in these

903
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,840
these fucking sun Belt communities, these car slums, there's nothing

904
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,480
to look at. You can walk through a residential or

905
00:46:26,519 --> 00:46:28,719
you can walk through a strip mall, you know, and

906
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,199
then risk getting killed by some you know, seventeen year

907
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,519
old texting in a fucking Yukon or a Giant f

908
00:46:35,559 --> 00:46:39,559
one fifty and their dad's f one fifty. But and

909
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:41,519
then look at the stores. Maybe I guess you go

910
00:46:41,559 --> 00:46:44,000
into Best Buy in Perus through shit you don't need.

911
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,760
But that's that's life. There's no there's no, there's nothing

912
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,519
to look at. It was like you're in a dense city.

913
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,679
You can go to the park, there's cool little independent

914
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,480
shops close together you can look at. You could just

915
00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:58,320
look at public life, you could people watch. But in

916
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,079
these places it's nothing. I can't and you think about

917
00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:04,360
how many millions of people live in these places and

918
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,760
live like this. And again, we're not faulting, I'm not

919
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,360
shitting anybody. But it's it's all that's there. It's the

920
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,639
only option. It's fucking crazy, it's so sad, it's such

921
00:47:13,639 --> 00:47:16,960
a fucking horrible way to live. And then you wonder, Yeah,

922
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,320
of course, I wonder why so many people are miserable

923
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,800
and depressed and shooting up schools and there's nothing to

924
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,039
live for are we live? We're in a no man's

925
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:31,679
land in terms of human existence, Like the things like

926
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,960
this landscape didn't exist before. It couldn't have existed before.

927
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,039
We've created this completely artificial landscape and we're fucking lost

928
00:47:39,039 --> 00:47:40,599
in it. We don't know what to do. It's just

929
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:43,840
shopping and working. There's nothing else, and going to the gym,

930
00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:46,559
you know, maybe, yeah, that's it.

931
00:47:46,679 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going back for a while. I'll tell

932
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,559
you that.

933
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,199
Speaker 1: I just thought it was that you called me for

934
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,880
moral support when you were there, and I said, I

935
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,880
got this. This is I think about this every day

936
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,199
because I fucking live in a region like this. And

937
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,199
then you see there's i mean, no one has any

938
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:09,480
there's no awareness. There's so little aware. I mean, there

939
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,440
are people, but it's such a microcosm. There's people that

940
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,000
have an awareness of the wild places and the life

941
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,440
forms around them, but they're very, very small, and there's

942
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,320
not many places. There's like maybe a state park every

943
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:22,519
twenty miles if that.

944
00:48:23,639 --> 00:48:28,199
Speaker 2: It's Yeah, are young people gonna want to live live there.

945
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,039
That's the other thing. I thought people were moving back

946
00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:31,639
to cities. I thought that was a trend. There are

947
00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:33,639
young people gonna want to like stay out there.

948
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 1: Well you've got to You've got to dupe them into

949
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,079
into it somehow with either religion, you know, which kind

950
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:40,960
of tells you to stay the course and stay on

951
00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:44,800
this miserable life and ignore your anxiety and suffering and

952
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,920
depression because God will fix it. Or you've got to

953
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:53,639
sell them, you know, the daily grind kind of David Goggins,

954
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,559
work hard, you know it, don't be a pussy type

955
00:48:56,599 --> 00:48:57,199
thing and you.

956
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: Just grind, grindset mindset.

957
00:48:59,039 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, life is supposed to to suck and there's nothing else, Like,

958
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,400
how could you think that there's another way to live,

959
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:07,639
you fucking pussy? Like that's what you sell them. And

960
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:11,159
then they they do that, and uh, you know, and

961
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:14,280
there's just life is still meaningless. But they feel that

962
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,840
they maybe they have a nice truck or a you know,

963
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,880
a trophy. Wy for maybe someone's you know, getting botox

964
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,960
at age thirty because she doesn't want to wrinkle and

965
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,519
so she looks really good. She puts a lot of

966
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,599
energy into how she looks so that men find her

967
00:49:28,639 --> 00:49:30,719
attractive and then everyone's going to the gym. I don't know.

968
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,079
I mean, this is just what I see. It's just

969
00:49:32,159 --> 00:49:36,000
what I I guess. I mean anthropologically what I'm looking at.

970
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:39,400
I mean, you live to impress other people, and you

971
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:44,239
live to acquire status symbols. But there's no inter fulfillment.

972
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,559
You know, there's nothing you're not getting like inter fulfillment

973
00:49:47,639 --> 00:49:53,280
from fucking making art or doing a painting, playing piano.

974
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,239
I don't see a lot of art in these places. Certainly,

975
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,280
I don't see a lot of music. I don't see

976
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,559
a lot of creativity. There's no nature. You're not getting

977
00:50:01,559 --> 00:50:05,760
fulfillment from going out and feeling good looking at you know,

978
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,079
living green things around you. So you've got to You've

979
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:11,920
got to create meaning somewhere. Video games are very important

980
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,119
in these landscapes too. Video games are a necessity.

981
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 2: Have you ever have you ever like helped clean up

982
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,880
a house when when someone's died, to like all this

983
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,800
stuff that people collect their whole life there the next

984
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,280
to kin just whip it all into a dumpster. You know,

985
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,800
you take a couple of things and but this whole

986
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,639
life of of gathering like shiny things like a magpie.

987
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,280
You know, it all just gets whipped into a dumpster,

988
00:50:36,599 --> 00:50:37,119
right right.

989
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:39,199
Speaker 1: See, I would say, I would say, I would say

990
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,199
life is meaningless, but you can add meaning to it

991
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:45,280
and make it meaningful and nice, but you still die

992
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,079
and turn to dust. And I'm okay with that. That's

993
00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:49,559
a nice You know, they've done enough psychedelics to be

994
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:53,159
cool with becoming part of it.

995
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: I think it's incumbent on on on you to create meaning,

996
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,599
and I think it's hard to create meaning in in

997
00:50:59,679 --> 00:51:00,519
these kind of.

998
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: You can't space, you know, you can't do anything. There's

999
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,719
no there's no tools to there's.

1000
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:10,639
Speaker 2: No cultural exchange. Everyone's living in in you know, like

1001
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,840
a fortress that has one ingress and one egress out

1002
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,039
of it. You don't even have people passing through biacks.

1003
00:51:16,159 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: Now you're in a matrix. You're in the matrix you

1004
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,960
don't and it's it's video games, the gym, a job

1005
00:51:22,039 --> 00:51:26,840
that you mostly barely find tolerable or can only tolerate

1006
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:31,960
through drinking and smoking weed. And then it's it's lots

1007
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,199
of driving. There's no natural areas around you, and if

1008
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,400
they are, you know the forces that be are continuously

1009
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,719
trying to destroy them and take them. If they're not

1010
00:51:44,119 --> 00:51:47,760
you know, already conserved or put into public land, they

1011
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,360
will be taken eventually because the tumor is not going

1012
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,360
to stop growing. Uh So that, yeah, there's no meaning.

1013
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,199
There's it's a meaningless life. That's why you know, drugs

1014
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:00,440
and what not become very appealing. Or religion. Religion, and again,

1015
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,119
like I said, is very important. Yeah, and impressing your

1016
00:52:04,199 --> 00:52:06,679
primates like other primates around you, you know, trying to

1017
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:10,679
look good, have an expensive vehicle, very very bottom of

1018
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,360
the brain stem existence. There's no insight, there's no philosophy,

1019
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,440
there's no creativity, there's no search for a deeper truth

1020
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:20,639
or meaning. So that's what we have. And I'm in

1021
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,599
the lower of the United States especially. I think it's

1022
00:52:23,679 --> 00:52:26,159
very great to talk about these things. Put it out

1023
00:52:26,159 --> 00:52:29,000
there and just put this bloated carcass of this pig

1024
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,679
on the table for everyone to see, because I think

1025
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,599
about it all the time. And then you think about

1026
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:36,639
that this is what is going in when all the

1027
00:52:36,679 --> 00:52:39,840
habitat gets cleared and destroyed and taken out, like especially

1028
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,639
in a place like Florida, like they're still doing this

1029
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,960
they just demolished some pine rocklands in Miami three or

1030
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000
four years ago to put in a fucking Walmart.

1031
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: Well, if you if like what you know your listeners

1032
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,239
are living in that area, I would say, go to Orlando.

1033
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,679
Go to the Vietnamese neighborhood. It's very cool, like the

1034
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,519
food's awesome, nice peace people. It's like the neighborhood where

1035
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:05,760
you start seeing rainbow flag stickers and pro Palestine stickers.

1036
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,880
It was like, you know, it's like that's my little signal.

1037
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,000
It's like, oh, there's you know, this is going to

1038
00:53:10,039 --> 00:53:13,480
be a more nurturing environment.

1039
00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: For someone like theft style, right.

1040
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we went over to the low gardens

1041
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,320
there too, which is like, you know, it's like an

1042
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,039
old you know, some rich guy had a plantation out

1043
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:26,639
there and donated it, and so you can see some

1044
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,960
neat plants and stuff over there in the low gardens.

1045
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,000
So and we my my girlfriend is a rule follower,

1046
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:35,760
so we paid to get in, but it would be

1047
00:53:36,039 --> 00:53:38,280
very easy to jump a fence to get into there

1048
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:38,719
for free.

1049
00:53:40,119 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: Of course, support them if you can, but if you're

1050
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,079
young and don't have much money, that's another option too.

1051
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So I so around there's cool stuff. You

1052
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,960
know that. That's the thing about the States. You can

1053
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,599
find those little pockets where there's cool stuff and cool people.

1054
00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:56,800
And so it's down there in Orlando. My my my

1055
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,079
girlfriend spent some time down there, so she found the

1056
00:53:59,079 --> 00:54:02,239
cool spots. So you know, there is you can find

1057
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,920
the community, you can find little pocket.

1058
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's little pockets of hope. Right, yeah, don't listen

1059
00:54:07,519 --> 00:54:10,360
to me. I'm not fucking I mean, thing is you

1060
00:54:10,599 --> 00:54:13,280
what do you do? You're hopeful, Get on a box car,

1061
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,920
you know, spray your shit under a bridge, start traveling,

1062
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,199
leave town, you know, do a couple of minor stints

1063
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,199
in jail every now in a while, just as a

1064
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:23,400
byproduct of lifestyle. But you know where yours you are

1065
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,320
actually giving pragmatic and hopeful alternatives. I like that. That's good,

1066
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,960
thank you, because I failed. But seriously, I think there's

1067
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,719
ways again. Yeah, I think, you know, getting interacting with plants,

1068
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:38,239
finding out what was native in a spot, what the landscape,

1069
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,000
you know, little hints at what the landscape may have

1070
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,639
looked like two hundred years ago, the case of Florida,

1071
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,440
even eighty years ago, and start trying to find little

1072
00:54:46,559 --> 00:54:49,920
you know, residual patches of that grow those things, plant

1073
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,320
them out, get involved with like public parks, create a

1074
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,639
native plant movement, something like that. Plants are always the

1075
00:54:56,639 --> 00:54:58,840
fucking answer. The living world is always the answer. It's

1076
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,840
not just in the escape. It's the fucking answer to

1077
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,199
this garbage. If you interact with these things, it will

1078
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,320
humble you, will make you a more enlightened person. It

1079
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,880
will It's an antacote to the death cult. It's not

1080
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:10,920
just an escape.

1081
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's that's the thing. It's a

1082
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:18,039
death cult, right, like human humans are part we're part

1083
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:22,239
of nature, and we we coexisted with it. We we

1084
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,000
we live with it because we we are it, and

1085
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:26,760
you just kind of have to get back to that

1086
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:28,719
and away from this. I mean, it's just like any

1087
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,119
other death cult. There's been death cults throughout history when

1088
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,280
when people are hopeless they turn to stuff like that.

1089
00:55:35,679 --> 00:55:38,280
But but you know, you've got to get back to that,

1090
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,039
you know, remembering that that you know, we are stewards

1091
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:44,400
of this, we are of this. You know, we're not separate,

1092
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,039
we're not aliens, we're not machines.

1093
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. The consumer death cult is is it's not

1094
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,599
going to last too long. It can't. I don't think

1095
00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:54,639
there's no way that it can. It's going to burn

1096
00:55:54,679 --> 00:55:57,679
itself out. It could expand a lot and grow a

1097
00:55:57,679 --> 00:56:00,920
lot and turn more of the earth into an ashtray

1098
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,920
than it already has, but it's going to burn out eventually.

1099
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,519
And I think there's just I think it's just a

1100
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:07,760
miserable way to live, too. And I think once people,

1101
00:56:08,119 --> 00:56:10,920
once people, once you wake people up to that that

1102
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:13,800
like this is you're miserable, like you are, like face it,

1103
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,519
you're this is a miserable way to live, and there's

1104
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:19,360
an alternative. Once people wake up to that, they can

1105
00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:22,880
it becomes you know, there's there's a lot more hope.

1106
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,440
That's why I do what I do. You know, even

1107
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,400
though I'm not helpful, I think there is hope, and

1108
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,639
it I getting people to wake up to the living

1109
00:56:31,679 --> 00:56:34,119
world is the most important thing to do it really,

1110
00:56:34,199 --> 00:56:34,519
is it?

1111
00:56:34,559 --> 00:56:34,760
Speaker 2: Really?

1112
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: Even if you're not that into plants, you know, everybody

1113
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,760
can be a little bit into it and appreciate being

1114
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,920
around it. We need to stop seeing it is messy

1115
00:56:42,519 --> 00:56:45,119
or you know that it needs to be hedged, or

1116
00:56:45,199 --> 00:56:48,360
that the native plants are messy or they're you know,

1117
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,920
invite pests or whatever it's. Now you learn to live

1118
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,320
with it and steward it. Yeah, whatever your feelings may

1119
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:55,880
be on that word. But anyway, well, well, thank you

1120
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,920
so much for coming on to talk on a podcast

1121
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,400
about this. I think it's very important. I'm sorry. I

1122
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,159
know it must have been emotionally shocking for you and traumatizing,

1123
00:57:05,519 --> 00:57:08,159
and it is for me to see this stuff, this

1124
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:14,119
single serving, single use, you know, blown out the spiritual landscape,

1125
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:19,400
but this void, this emptiness, but you know there's there's hope.

1126
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,719
That's the point. So anyway, we'll have a good ride

1127
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,679
rest of your you know time today on Mantras Beach

1128
00:57:24,719 --> 00:57:26,400
and let me know if you see any any of

1129
00:57:26,519 --> 00:57:29,000
a beaver, you know, they've been chewing on those fucking

1130
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,679
I think it's hackberries or whatever's out there, but you'll

1131
00:57:31,719 --> 00:57:34,519
see like beaver gnawings, you know, closer to the lake.

1132
00:57:34,679 --> 00:57:37,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's pretty amazing, you know. And they, you know,

1133
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:41,119
we've got the the the piping plover come to visit

1134
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:43,719
every summer now and they've become like celebrities, and I

1135
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:47,519
think that's you know there, if you want to twist that,

1136
00:57:47,639 --> 00:57:51,400
you know, our perverted culture make make endangered bird celebrities

1137
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,280
that seem to work. They got left alone, you know,

1138
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,719
they they actually this is amazing. They were going to

1139
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,920
have a music fastiball on the beach and they move

1140
00:58:00,119 --> 00:58:03,360
it because of the piping plovers. So that gives me

1141
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,320
great hope, because they they the plovers needed a place

1142
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,800
lay their eggs, and so they they actually shut down

1143
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,599
this huge portion of the beach. Uh, it's not for

1144
00:58:13,719 --> 00:58:17,880
humans at all anymore. And Andy they strictly enforce it,

1145
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,199
and actually it gets enforced by the birders that are

1146
00:58:20,239 --> 00:58:21,920
out there. Really cool.

1147
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you pick a species or two. I mean in

1148
00:58:24,079 --> 00:58:27,280
fucking New Zealand, they got like some of their fungi

1149
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:32,159
species on the fucking currency. You know, you make these organisms.

1150
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,719
You pick a certain organism of plant or animal or

1151
00:58:34,719 --> 00:58:37,039
bird or whatever the fuck, and you put it on

1152
00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:39,239
the you know, you you put it and you inject

1153
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,159
it into the culture so that people are aware of it.

1154
00:58:41,199 --> 00:58:43,639
They may not know plants, but everyone will know a

1155
00:58:43,679 --> 00:58:46,360
certain bird in an area because they see the fucking

1156
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,519
logo everywhere and they see people talking about it, and

1157
00:58:48,519 --> 00:58:51,880
they see it. Fucking informational kiosk at a park explaining

1158
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,920
the importance of this thing whatever, you know, and.

1159
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: It's a it's like a gateway drug into you know,

1160
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,960
waking up, you know about what you can do and

1161
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,599
what we could have, so you know there is there is,

1162
00:59:03,719 --> 00:59:06,559
there is hope and and uh you're more hopeful than

1163
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:07,559
you let on too, so.

1164
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:10,199
Speaker 1: I p well, thank you. Yeah see I think so too.

1165
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,039
But it's it's beneath the thick crust of spines and

1166
00:59:13,199 --> 00:59:16,800
you know, caustic exodents. So well, thank you, will thank

1167
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,519
you so much. Until next time, our Crime pace field

1168
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:24,360
correspondent Will Dorn all right, thanks Joey cool Man