Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Shruly you Can't Be
Serious Podcasts. This is part two of our Superman versus
Man of Steel episode. I just want to say thank
you to all the support you guys are giving us.
We truly appreciate it. Thank you to all our Facebook fans,
Matt Farmer, I'm looking at you. And thank you to
Joey Jarvis who sent us an email suggesting a matchup
between Gooni's and Grimlins and Ferris Bueller's Day Off and
Breakfast Club. Excellent suggestions. If you all have any suggestions,
please email them to us or hit us up on
Twitter or Facebook. Next week we will begin Synchronousity by
the Police and Frontiers by Journey, So please hit subscribe
on your podcast app now so that you're sure not
to miss those episodes. So, without further.
Speaker 2: Ado, Hello everybody, welcome to the Surely you Can't Be
Serious podcast, discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten
of eighties and nineties pop culture with your co hosts
James D. Graves and Jason Holliday Live.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, we're back for part two of the Superman
one and two versus Man of Steel debate once again.
John Reid from the thirty something Movie podcast is joining us.
Speaker 3: Hey John, Hey guys, I'm really excited. Thank you so
much for having me back here. I am I'm ready
to throw down like that that Muhammad Ali Superman think.
I'm ready to throw down. Mite this out. You know,
May the best Superman win, all right.
Speaker 4: I know that in Man of Steel there is no
Lex Luthor, but I think we should talk about Gene
Hackman for just a second.
Speaker 1: Gene Hackman is maybe, next to Christopher Reeve, my favorite
part of the Superman one and two series. He is
not the mustache twirling villain at all. Anything that you
get from him that's evil is just dialogue that he's speaking.
In all other respects, he seems kind of like a
funny guy and easy to get along with, other than
he's so full of himself.
Speaker 4: When he was hired, he had a mustache.
Speaker 1: This is like mustache Gene Hackman. Yeah, the original posters
had a picture of Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman, and
Gene Hackman had a full on Mustache's crazy and he
didn't want to shave.
Speaker 4: Didn't want to shave his mustache. Number one didn't want
to shave his head either. But Dick Donner called him
and he said, all right, listen, dude, if you if
you'll shave your mustache, I'll shave my mustache. So Hagman's like,
all right, Well, Dick Donner didn't have a mustache.
Speaker 3: Not only that, he when he said I'll shave my
mustache if you shave yours, he actually had a fake
mustache on.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then after Gene Hackman, Yeah, after Gene Hackman shaped
his he's like all right, He's like, okay, cool and pep.
And that's the story why Gene Hackman didn't come back
for the sequel.
Speaker 4: I think it's funny that, like Sluther' is supposed to
have all these hair pieces. But I mean, anybody you
know who were there's a two bay that has a bultiplier.
So anytime you see Hackman, it's bald. It's a bald cat.
But I love Gene Hackman. He's charming, he's funny. I
talked to you the other day and I'm like, when
he first meets Superman and kind of lures him too
his layer by making that vague thread about toxin gas
or whatever. He doesn't have a plan to commit any
kind of crime, and yet he has instant credibility and
Superman shows up and not kicks in his door.
Speaker 1: I'm like that happens every day on Twitter. In addition
to Lex Luthor, we didn't have Otis, who was played
by Beatie, who was fantastic.
Speaker 3: It means mister luthworw it.
Speaker 1: Just aside real quick. The officers, the police officers and
Superman one not only know who Lex Luthor is, but
know who his goons are because they see Otis inside
to start following. That scene when the guy gets pushed
in front of the train was draumatic for me as
a kid. I remember that. But his partner, the other
I guess he must have done pretty well because he
ends up being the police chief for Riggs and murdoffin
that sign says Riggs, Yeah, but I don't give up.
Speaker 4: You don't have Miss Testmaker in a Man of Steel either, No,
you don't.
Speaker 1: Valet Perene, oh my word.
Speaker 4: Her cleavage caused the entire US military.
Speaker 1: To fall apart at the end of Superman One, Right,
I mean the I Dream of Jeanie Guy had some
five transferred over to the Army branch, and he was
high enough in command to be solely responsible.
Speaker 4: She literally lays down, shows her boobs, and he assumes
control of nuclear weapon.
Speaker 1: I can remember it's so I have it. He's ten
years old right now, and this has been five years
because he has been five four or five years old.
And I had Superman on a tablet of some kind
and he was sitting with me, and we're watching Superman
for the first time, and it gets to that scene
where she's in the green bathing suit and she's laying
down and you know, her chest is just in her arms,
and my four to five year old son pushes pause
on the tablet, stops stops going, and goes dad, when
I grow up and get married, I'm going to marry
a girl like her, all right, Drell? Okay, so Durell.
We've got Marlon Brando, who we've talked about, and Russell
Crowe from Man of Steel. Marlon Brando was paid three
point and there's some rough estimation on the figures here,
but somewhere between three point five and three point seven
million dollars for his performance in this which is less
than twenty minutes long, and then got an absurd percentage
on the back end of like eleven and three quarters
and still sue to get more money. And then before
they started shooting, he called and tried to convince Dick
Donner that instead of having him appear on screen, that
they could do a talking suitcase or a bagel of
some kind, because nobody knows what Kryptonians really look like,
so why not just use his voice. It's funny to
listen to an interview with him about the amount of
money that he was paid. People pay what they deem
something is worth, and some things are worth more than others.
Cars are worth more than hula hoops, which I listened
to it, I laughed out loud just because of the idea.
And then I watched the movie. I was like, oh
my gosh, there's actually hula hoops in his scene. Yeah, yeah,
the hula hoops that are keeping the criminals from escaping.
Speaker 4: And in fairness to him, though, he's absolutely right and
he was the key piece to getting this done.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, I mean, certainly he had the star
power to demand what he got, and you know, Dick
Donner and his interview says, I was really skeptical of
the idea of paying Marlon Branda this much money, but
once I started working with him, I realized, yeah, he's
worth it. Well what about Russell Crowe? Where are we
with Russell Crowe? Okay, so I know you love Russell,
love us. We've had this talk. I didn't like him
and Gladiator, but I thought he did fantastic in this.
I thought he was a compelling drill who was smart
and active and had a plan, and he was great.
He's great as a hologram. This part was a little confused.
Speaker 4: I always have this the AI, you know, can they
hear me?
Speaker 1: Can they understand me? Are they thinking? This whole thing
is a little bit confusing to me. But I like
both the actors. I just I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think you could almost make a case that Man
of Steel that you didn't really need all this stuff,
but you could start with Clark.
Speaker 1: On The Deadliest Catch. Well see, now that's an interesting comparison.
I've got that over here. So when I watched Man
of Steel, I was like, Wow, they are really spending
a significant amount of time on Krypton here, right, You're
getting a whole lot more story than you got with Superman.
I mean, they fleshed out the place. You get a
better understanding of why z Odd is rebelling against the people.
You get a better trial scene. Durrell has an entire
storyline that goes along with why he's doing what he's doing,
has time to dive into the water and get the
Codex to take I mean, this is I was like, Wow,
they must have spent like a ton of time. I looked,
it's twenty minutes from beginning of movie until Krypton explodes
in Man of Steel. In Superman, it's twenty one minutes. Wow.
And I thought they gave you so much more detail
and depth in Man of Steel about what Krypton was
like and why these characters were doing what they were
doing than you ever got in Superman.
Speaker 4: Did you know that that's roughly the same amount of
time that the kid who fell off with the Niagara
Fallers as he fell took about twenty minutes for Superman
to get us act together and go rescue that kid.
Speaker 1: And when he you know, after he appears, saves Lowis
Lane for the first time and thinks, think I'll shoot
the rest of the night away fighting minor crime, and
he confronts the cat burglar who's crawling up up the windows,
and that guy starts to fall once again. Superman's got
a time to smirk, shake his head.
Speaker 5: Oh well, I guess zoom down and get him all right.
Speaker 4: I do want to throw in real quick Kevin Costner
and Diane Lane as mol and Paul Kent.
Speaker 1: I love what they did in this, absolutely love it.
With the Superman movies, you've got, you get a very
brief glimpse of Martha and Jonathan Kent. They have a
great little you know bit where they discover him, and
you have the falling truck, which I think will live
in everybody's memory forever as the little kid lifts that
truck up. A quick side note on that guy. The
guy's name is the little kid, you know, the little
kid who's naked and then who's lifting up the truck.
His name is Aaron Smolensky, and he is the only
actor who has been in Superman one, Superman three, and
Man of Steel. He was remember in Superman three where
he goes into the photo booth and like it has
pictures of him changing from Clark kend to Superman. He
played the kid at the photo booth on that one.
And then of course he's an adult now and so
he played a communications Officer and Man of Steel. And
there's some sort of fan film that there is in
development right now called Superman Versus Doomsday, and if it
gets made, he'll be Lex Luthor in that he's bald now,
so it looks like it could go to looks Lex Luthor.
But what an interesting life that guy has to have
had it so far. But back to mon Pap Kent,
Jonathan and Martha Kent. You don't get much from him,
I mean, especially mock Kent. You don't get much at all.
She's just kind of there, yeah, homely, she's old man,
she's a little silver headed old woman. You don't get
much from her other than you know, I love you,
don't forget, I'll never forget. But you got way different
parents in this one. Martha Kent is fan for fantastic.
I love her. Diane Lane. You know she can pull
off young and old very easily. I bought her being
old enough to be his mom and then obviously beautiful. Yeah,
she's still still can pull off being very young as well.
Speaker 4: And Kevin Costner does a great sort of midwestern you know,
I kept waiting for him to ask him if you
want to have a catch, you know, I mean he's great.
He's mister Field of Dreams, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And people had a problem with Jonathan Kent when
Clark Kent says, should I just have let them die?
Him saying maybe, but you've got to have that in
order to establish within Clark. How critical the idea of
people cannot know what you can do.
Speaker 4: I totally agree with that. I've heard the criticism. But
I mean, you and I have teenagers, John, I mean
your kids are not teenagers.
Speaker 3: Yet, but no, my oldest is twelve.
Speaker 4: Okay, even if for a twelve year old to have
godlike powers at that age and the decision making abilities,
and Kevin Costner is, why is telling him let's wait,
Let's wait until you're ready to become the greatest being
on this earth.
Speaker 3: When people were making such a big deal out of that,
I kept thinking the same thing was, well, first of all,
it's a movie. Second of all, put yourself in that
person's place. You get the portrayal of Manpa Kent is
in the original Superman movie is very much your classic. Well,
it's a kindly old farm couple and they've raised this
boy to be their own and they, you know, good
Midwestern United States values, and everybody. You know, it's all
very pure, and it's all there's not a whole lot
of complication here, And you put yourself in the character
of what Jonathan Kent as a human would have been like,
and I feel like, well, I can't imagine I would
be any different, Like I would be a little paranoid,
and I would be concerned that if I let this slip,
somebody's taken my son away and they're going to experiment
on him and they're gonna do all this other crazy stuff.
Speaker 4: And not to mention, you have people start asking questions
about how you illegally adopted a child.
Speaker 3: Right to me, I didn't have a problem with that
when that whole thing came out, and I remember seeing
that in the trailer, and I remember having a discussion
with it. Might be might have been Jeff, one of
the other guys that's on the podcast with us sometimes
we might have had a discussion about that, and he
was like, well, how do you feel about that? And
I was like, you know what, First of all, it's
in a trailer, so it could be completely out of context.
So let's actually watch the movie and see and he's like,
that makes sense. And even watching the movie and that line,
it's like, you know, should I should I have let
them die? Maybe? Well, okay, So watching this as an
audience member watching a movie, I can sit there and
have the luxury of saying, oh, Jonathan, no, no, no,
bad advice, bad advice. But as a person, like if
I'm living in this world and if that's me, I
probably would say something like that. I might regret it
later on and they're like, Okay, I made a mistake.
Never mind. You know, we don't let anybody ever die.
But in the moment when I've got a scared kid
that's asking me questions, and like you said, he's got
this godlike power at age thirteen or whatever he was, yeah,
i'd probably be a little freaked out too.
Speaker 1: Another detail touch just you don't even notice it. I
know this because I watched them behind the scenes. When
he ultimately shows Clark the spaceship that he came to
Earth in, you get these extreme close ups of the
desk behind him, and it's all his research on alien
life and you know, Extraterrestrial's UFO sightings, all of this.
They went to the trouble to get all of that
prepared for that tiny little scene that you don't even see.
It's she's kind of kind of crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, before we jump ahead, I did want to say
one thing about Diane Lane's Martha Kent is to me,
that's and I'm fine with the kindly old Martha Kent too.
I mean that's traditionally, that's how she's portrayed in nearly
everything else. But this Diane Lane Martha Kent, like she
stands up to Zod And if you're a mother who
has raised the child and he eventually, someday is going
to become Superman, that's the Martha Kent that I would
expect to see, like someone who You've got this alien
in front of you that has ridiculous power. He's you know,
there's a couple of the other theres too. They've thrown
a truck into your house, and you're still going to
stand up to the guy. Like, to me, that Superman's mom.
Speaker 1: He has powers as we do, certainly, but oh, magnificent one.
He is just one, or you are three or four
if you're counting twice.
Speaker 3: You know, in terms of the character of Non they've
introduced him into the newer comics and he's got a
much more tragic story I think that his story in
the newer comics is he was friends with Joelle and
he was he was a member of the Kryptonian Council,
and he he was likebotomized. Yeah, he was lobottomized. And
so every time you know, Joel sees him up until
the destruction of Krypton, like it breaks his heart because
that was a very close friend of his. And so
it's obviously got a little bit more of a backstory
when when you add that piece into it. One of
the one of the characters that I was hoping that
we would mention but didn't get mentioned. He's only in
the original Superman for one or two seconds. The actor's name,
I believe is Bo Rucker, and he played the pimp
in Superman exactly. That's and I didn't want to. I
didn't want us to go beyond the actors and the
characters without mentioning the pimp, because that is possibly the
best line in the movie. And there have been times,
and I love that my children have no idea what
I'm quoting up until they see the movie and they're like, oh,
so you didn't make that up, that's where you got
that from. But there are times where if my kids
will come in the room, they'll be like, Dad, this
is what I'm wearing to church today?
Speaker 1: Is this okay?
Speaker 3: Or or Dad, this is what I've got on? Is
this all right? A lot of times I'll go say, Jim,
that's a bad outfit, but that is the best. I
mean just and seeing that as a kid, that completely
blew over my head of how funny that is. But
as an adult and Christopher Reeve his response to the
whole thing, that is probably one of the most hilarious,
like three or four seconds in the entire movie, because
he does the whole revolving door thing, steps outside and
the pimp says his line, say Jim, that's a bad outfit,
and Superman just goes, excuse me, puts one finger and
that flies away, just like that. You could just have
played me that four seconds and I would have said,
you know what, Superman's the greatest movie. It's ever That's
all I need to see.
Speaker 1: Young Clark in Superman movies was played by Jeff East. Now,
when I watched these movies, I was like, holy cow,
they've got a guy who sounds exactly like Christopher Reeve
to play the young Christopher Reeve. I mean it doesn't
look like in that much, but his voice is identical.
No wonder they picked this guy. Yeah, so I was dumb.
Chris Reeve dubbed all those lines. Yeah, and they did
it was that Jeff East's knowledge. Now, Jeff East has
been in a few other movies. Do you guys remember
the old Tom Sawry movie with the red headed Tom
Sawyer and Jodie Foster was He played Huck Finn in
that movie, like a big bet y'all, what's doing on
the good?
Speaker 4: Drubbing in the bottom of the mud, happy good and
we don't give.
Speaker 1: A hoot a. He was really upset when he saw
the movie and saw that his lines had been dubbed
over by Christopher Reeve. He didn't know, the producers didn't
tell him that was going to happen. He didn't know
what was gonna happen. So he was a little irritated.
And then another interesting story for him. You know they're
doing he does the train race where they've got him
kind of an absurd running thing, but I loved it
when I was a kid. His gait is a little strange,
It is a little a little bit weird, but they
do that scene where he jumps in front of the
train just at the last second, and they're using a
real train, and he said he almost died at some
point as they were trying to film this because one
of the cables didn't do the like one of the
cranes didn't do the right thing, and he swung back
around and Richard Hackman, Gene Hackman's brother, who was the
stunt guy on the scene, grabbed him before he swung
back in front of the train and died.
Speaker 3: Now, since you brought it up, that was one of
the things that I really liked about how Man of
Steel handled the young Clark Kent piece was and I
thought it was a pretty It was a fresh take
on it that I just had not seen before watching
that and thinking, you know what, the way he's dealing
with these powers and these sensations that he just can't understand,
it really reminded me of you know a lot of
times when a student will get diagnosed with some kind
of a learning disability or whatever it might be, and
I thought, you know, what, is that the route that
they're going to kind of take with this is that,
you know what, if we think of Superman as or
what if we think of Clark Kent as he was
a child that from the outside world he grew up
with some kind of a disability like that would be
an interesting take that I've never seen or heard of before.
And just the way that you know his mom, you know,
he panics because he you know, sees through his teacher,
which would freak out anybody. I'm glad he didn't stop
and be like pink, that would make pink that the
teacher says, that's all awkward. But and then you know,
he runs and locks himself in that closet, and then
his mom has to come and kind of talk him
through the whole thing, and he can hear all the
kids making the comments about him outside the room, and
the way she's just calming him down and trying to
get him kind of back out of this panic that
he's in. I mean, I've seen students who actually do that.
They just the world just overwhelms them so much. The
sensory stuff that's coming in just gets to them so
much that they just cannot they don't know how to
process it.
Speaker 1: His life is a lonely existence, and the story of
young Clerk Kent in Man of Steel, I mean real
informs who he is as an adult. And even going
back and watching the original Superman movies with Christopher Reeve,
you get that loneliness as well. There's this scene where
he's tried to get Lois to go out with him,
and she won't go out with him, and then he
tries to say hi to the guys in the hall
as he's waiting for the elevator, and he gets ignored,
and then he's just kind of standing there waiting on
the elevator, and there's this sense of loneliness of this
is what comes with being Superman. It's not you know,
we all think, oh gosh, I just want to be Superman,
but there's this huge isolation that comes with the job
that it's tough. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 4: Though, Superman as a strange child or a lonely man
as a whole lot better than Superman as a stalker.
That you get and Superman returns when he breaks into
that person's house. And I mean, if you got Superman
as an intruder, you got a problem.
Speaker 1: I'm bullying. I've got a full note on this one.
Bullying is a huge part of this. And John, I
feel like and I could be totally making this up
in my head, but I feel like you posted maybe
an article a few months ago on kind of the
notion of bullying and that sometimes it makes gids stronger.
And Chris Rock's got a comedy specialist on Netflix right now,
where like he finds out that they have a no
tolerance policy for bullying at his daughter's school, and he's like,
I almost pulled her out right Then he says, bullies
made me who I am, And so it's you know,
bullying is a huge part of the backstory of a
Superman in both movies. You get more of it in
the original trilogy with the Smallville guy. What was that
guy's name? Brad? What a slimee ball? But then in
the Man of Steel when you get I mean you
imagine if you were able to hear every ugly thing
that people said about you.
Speaker 3: Right, what would that turn you into? If you had
if you could hear everything in town? Yeah, when you
heard every rumor, you heard every kid whispering about you.
Speaker 1: That idea is what is the driving force behind the
whole beginning story for Man of Steel? I mean, the
whole story really for Man of Steel? Is this unspoken
question for Clark, which is is humanity worth saving? Because
you get Seen after Seen, where you've got humans being
despicable followed up by humans doing the right thing. You've
got the guy saving his life on the what were
they doing on the boat? Yeah, catch man? You know,
he saves his life and then he calls you know
these calls him a dumba. But this kind of means like,
you know, even though he thinks I'm an idiot, He's
still saved me, which then leads to him, you know,
saving all those guys on the oil ricord. You've got
the kids being mean to him, and then his mom
comes in and it's nice to him. You've got p
Ross being mean to him on the bus before Lana
is nice to him, which leads to him saving peace.
Then you got the bully, you know, picking on him
while he's reading Plato, and and who is it that
shows up to be nice? It's Pete Ross who he's changed,
you know, it's it's this you got.
Speaker 3: You got the guy at the bar later on that
throws the beer at him, right, and.
Speaker 1: The waitress who's you know, He's like, it's not worth it, honey,
And then and then it all culminates with Lois who
you know, she's going to get the story. She's going
to get the story. She finally figures it out, but
when she realizes what's at stake, she drops it. She
doesn't let him go, which then gives you those lines
later on where he says thank you and she says
for what and he says for believing in me and
she said it didn't end up meaning very much and
he says it did for me.
Speaker 3: That's She's She's the humanity that's worth saving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the whole question. And you talked about
this in your podcast. And this was a huge deal
for me. When I saw Manfteel the first time, I
was kind of heavily into reading the Bible at that point,
and so when I saw Man of Steel, I was like,
holy smokes, there's a lot of Christ references in this
in this movie. I was like, I learned about You know,
that was Donner's intent, and you can see it in
the Donner cut, but it was kind of Donner says,
nobody's going to put as many Christ references in as
I will in a Superman movie, and ex Tider says,
hold my beer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that was. My wife was surprised. The first
time we watched she had never seen I mean it
was several years ago now, but she had never seen
the original Richard Donner Superman. And the first time we
sat down and watched it together is she like part
way through the movie, she goes, so, is Richard Donner
a Christian?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Is he like a pastor or something? Because there's a
lot of stuff in here, like, I mean, that's pretty
much straight out of the Bible. Is that like most
of the stuff jory Elle is saying, I mean, it
really sounds like it's right out of the Bible. And
I said, it's just that's just how they chose to
do it.
Speaker 1: But the father becomes the son. Yeah, yeah. And with
Man of Steel, he's thirty three years old. At the
point that he's trying to decide whether to give up
and save humanity or not, he goes to the church
and right behind him as he's talking to the preacher
is Jesus praying in the garden of Cassemone. I was like, Okay,
that's that is that is amazing And I don't know
how many other people are seeing what I'm seeing right now.
And then of course at what he right after, Jorell
says you can save her, you can save all of them,
and he busts out of the ship and does his
nest plunge in the Jesus on the Cross. I was
just like, wow, let me just make a comment on
the seat real quick. Yeah, we can compare uniforms.
Speaker 4: But the original Superman movie, they wanted it to be darker,
but they had to make it louder because they were
losing them in the in the effects, like when they're
flying around at night. I liked how in Man of Steel,
you know, they always talked about Superman flying around in
blue underwear. In Man of Steel, well red underwear griefs right,
But Durell actually takes off his battle armor and he's
wearing that blue suit underneath, and so it actually is
an undergarment, yeah, which I think is really cool.
Speaker 1: Turns out it is underwear.
Speaker 4: I do like how it looked like a super small
like chain metal, like it was protective. You know.
Speaker 1: I don't mean to steer us off course on the uniform,
but there's a great interview out there between Christopher Nolan,
you know, who is the producer on Man of Steel
and Dick Donner, and he said, he told Dick Donner,
this is interesting story. Number one. Christopher Nolan, of course
grew up in England. He got to go and see
this set for Superman wanting when he was like six
years old. And then when he he pitched his idea
to Warner Brothers, he said, I want to do for
Batman what Dick Donner did for Superman back in seventy
eight when he was pitching his Dark Knight. But they
note in that interview, you know everything's done on green
screen now, but back when they were doing Superman, it
was blue screen, right right, Well, Superman's in a blue suit.
How do you make him not invisible? That was tough,
like they had to go through several different colors to
finally find one that was a blue that you could
see that looks right, but was not one that was
going to make Superman invisible.
Speaker 4: Superman one into You've got to go back to the
seventies in real These are all practical effects, so projection
and wires and stuff like that. You know that the
cape in Man of Steel is one cgi yep.
Speaker 1: I expect better matters from my guests.
Speaker 3: Related to the Superman suit itself. I was just a
little disappointed man of steel that he didn't tear that
emblem off and turn it into a cell phone as
that he could throw at people. I was so looking
forward to that, but just it just never happened.
Speaker 4: The cell as the cellfen ass. Okay, So let's get
into that, because a lot of people like to point
out that this even the family Guy had a little
thing about this, how it was just a minor inconvenience
to non didn't really do anything, and it wasn't based
in any comic book as kind.
Speaker 1: Of a weird thing the selfane.
Speaker 4: But that's not the biggest problem.
Speaker 1: From the Superman one and two movies.
Speaker 4: Can we get into the reversal and the superkiss.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to dive into this, Okay. So I love.
Speaker 4: Superman one and two. I am going to defend Superman
one and two. But it has problems. So let's talk
about number one, the ending to Superman one, which was
originally supposed to be ending for Superman two. The time reversal.
So they were filming this movie, there's film two movies
at the same time, when they realize, man, we're running
out of money. We're not sure we're going to have
enough money to finish Superman two, so let's finish Superman one.
But they had this ending that they liked, and so
they took the ending that was supposed to end at
Superman two and put it at the end of Superman one.
If he flies backwards around the Earth, Earth stop spinning
and actually starts paying backwards, which causes time to reverse.
People at the equator are spinning at approximately two thousand
miles per hour, and if the Earth suddenly stopped spinning,
those people would continue to.
Speaker 1: Move at two thousand miles an hour.
Speaker 4: So the reverse seeing the Earth on its access would
kill tons of people and destroy the Earth. It's not
going to reverse time, but I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I was like, oh, man, wow,
I can't figure out how he manages to go in
a circle around the Earth about one hundred times in
a few seconds, but he can't get from one side
of the United States to the other in ten minutes.
That he's got to give both of the missiles. I
saw one of those. How it should have ended things right.
Speaker 3: Right now you can't catch both of those. Oh wait, Now,
there was something that I read a while ago, and
it actually made because this scene always bothered me too,
like the whole time reversal stuff. And I will get
into the time reversal piece of it two because I
think that's that's still a problematic way to try to
solve your problems. But this scene where he flies, and
I too have always kind of assumed, well, wow, he
flew fast enough that it turned the Earth backwards and
it reversed the rotation of the Earth. And then I
read something and the person said, well, what if he's
not actually exerting any kind of force on the Earth.
What if we're just seeing him fly so fast that
he's flying backward in time and we're seeing the Earth
turn backwards, because that's time turning backwards, not that he's
actually turning the Earth backwards. And I'm like, oh, well, okay,
I mean, I guess I'm I'm I'm feel a little
bit better about that. Then if we're just watching the
Earth rotate backwards because he's traveling back in time, as
opposed to he's actually forcing the Earth to turn backwards,
I'm like, all right, well, I clearly didn't get that
as a kid. Like as a kid, I was like, wow,
he can turn the Earth backwards. That's pretty rare. But
I also know that you've got all kinds of paradoxes
when you deal with time travel, and so I'm looking
at that. I'm like, okay now as an adult. As
a kid, I was just like, all right, he turned
back to time, we say Lois, everything all good? But
then I'm also thinking about it now as an adult,
I'm like, oh, wait a minute. If he turned back time,
then did he catch the missiles? And where is he
when the what if? Wait a minute now, okay, so
where is current Superman when he's turning back the time
to catch the missiles? And how could he still get
back to where Lois was? And was wait? How is
she okay?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: Because if he turned back time, the missiles would still
have hit because he didn't go stop the missiles earlier.
As an adult, if somebody were to do that now
in a movie, I'd be like, all right, that's kind
of a cheap way to undo everything.
Speaker 1: It's cheap, But I don't think it's as cheap as
the amnesia kiss.
Speaker 3: Oh no, that yeah, that's.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's talk about Okay, the super kiss is an
underrated superpower, all right, I am telling you if.
Speaker 1: They're so underrated. It's non existent men in this world.
Let's again, I know.
Speaker 4: Every man alive would like the power to fly and
have X ravation.
Speaker 1: I want to start answering that question that way. Now, Hey,
if you could have any superpower, what would it be?
Amnesia kiss? That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 4: If you could have a relationship and then be able
to super kiss your way out of that relationship, that's
a pretty good superpower. Yeah, but I told I told
you this yesterday. At the end of the movie Science,
when Lisa causes Gary's dad to forget that she was
over there because she's acting a little bit too hard.
What if you kiss the girl a little bit too hard?
What if he kiss Lois too hard? And now she
has no recollection at who Clark is. But that's not
even the biggest problem with the movies.
Speaker 1: Very delicate thing. Yeah, when they get into the Fortress
of Solitude and all of a sudden there's eighteen different
new powers that we've never seen before, including stuff coming
out of your finger. What's the deal with the white beams?
I mean? Yeah, and how does he how does he
push the rays to the outside that turn you into mortal? Man?
How does that happen. I'm just gonna push real hard
on the glass here and everything will go out and
I'll be safe inside. Okay, so Superman two is easy
to pick on. Yes, it's it's very easy to pick on.
There's a lot of a lot of lester things that
you can just get. Well, that was really dumb.
Speaker 3: It's also the most fun, right it is.
Speaker 1: Well, but I'm gonna go ahead and pick on Superman one.
At this point. I enjoy the camp I enjoy the humor.
But there are some things in Superman one that I
was just like, what just happened? Just now? When Lex Luthor,
in a matter of about a minute and thirty seconds,
not only figures out what kryptonite can do, but where
to get it by going around on his four shelf bookshelf,
it's absurd. He's like, oh, well, you know he said
he's from another galaxy. Well, I think he said that.
I was feeling that meteorite, which means that a piece
of his planet had to hit Earth. No, No, that's.
Speaker 3: Not what happens. It's a really big universe.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to go ahead and scoot on over here,
pull out a book. Here's a guy with a meteorite.
Here's a picture. I'll tear it out, you can look
at it. We know where he is, and how do
we know that this is from Crypton? We don't, we don't.
I'm going to poke the bear and then oh my gosh.
And then somehow he makes it out there, picks up
his steals the because he steals it from a museum.
I know that news report's going on, steals it from
the museum, then manages to make it back in time
to set all the stuff up with the missiles, and
then manages to make it out to the area where
the land deals are going on. It's just all I'm
just like, oh, guys.
Speaker 3: Well, but I mean, he's the greatest criminal mind of
our age.
Speaker 1: Lex Luster. How about that?
Speaker 4: He he says, where does he go?
Speaker 1: Miss test Baker? Uh north r North?
Speaker 4: So he wanders around vaguely until he finds the Fortress
of Solitude, and then when he gets there Superman spent
at least was it twelve years from time he was
eighteen till the time he was about thirty learning about
Kryptonian history.
Speaker 1: It's a nice way to dodge Vietnam.
Speaker 4: By the way, I'm just gonna hang out in the
Fortress the Ice Disco, but Lex Luthor shows up in
about five minutes. He's got it all figured out, right, Yeah,
the crystals and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: Again, greatest criminal mind of our age. Yeah, I think
you guys are really struggling with something you don't need
to struggle with. He's the great criminal mind of our age.
That's all you need to know. It's like the I
don't know if you've seen lately, I've seen people put
up these gifts or this image on Twitter, the meme
for Batman being the Greatest Detective. Yeah, and it's from
the episode of when he was trying to figure out
the identity of the Joker and he's got a picture
of this like gangster that the face kind of resembles
the Joker, and he's but he's in like a picture
with like twelve other people and Batman in the animated series,
he takes his red marker and he just draws a
red smiley face and he's like, that's the Joker. I'm like, really,
you know, the Great Dark Knight Detective. All it took
was a red sharpie for you to figure out who
the Joker was.
Speaker 4: But you know, what that. The superkiss is not the
biggest problem. The turning the time back is not the
biggest problem. Wandering around and finding the fortress salty is
not the biggest problem. The biggest problem for me is
when Clark trips over the bare head and falls into
the fire and reveals himself to be Superman. First of all,
Superman would kick that bear through the wall. I mean,
the fact that he would trip is ludicrous. And then
I mean he fights fights, fights Lois, and then he
reaches in and grabs the glasses real quick, and you know,
as soon as she confronts him, well you are Superman.
Speaker 1: He's just like, yeah, yeah, tell him sorry about almost
letting you drowned earlier. I'll just go ahead and pass
up now now that your life's not in danger at all.
Speaker 4: The reveal is ludicrous, but the donor reveal was just
as bad. She pulls a gun on him. I'm like,
I feel bad for this guy. She fires at him,
which he then takes his glasses off.
Speaker 1: Hey I'm Superman, and he's like, that was a really
dangerous and risky game for you to play. She's like,
with blanks, have blanks, right, which then then you go Okay,
so Superman doesn't feel bullets at all when he gets shot.
There's no feeling whatsoever. There's got to be at least
a tickle.
Speaker 4: See if that was you, though, and somebody pulled a
gun on you, and I fired an actual gun you're
trying to seduce, you'd have to change your shorts. The
seduction would be over at that point. The reveal is
my biggest problem with these two movies.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're moving into judgment stage here, so let's we've
talked about the problems with Superman one and Superman two,
let's talk about problems with Man of Steel. Okay, Jason,
you have the floor. Okay. My biggest problem is when
he executes.
Speaker 4: Zod, the killing of Zoon, and I know that they
try to make the case compelling that he's going to
X ray vision these innocent civilians, and that's kind of
Clark's last chance.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what he has to do. But for me,
when I.
Speaker 4: Saw this movie in theaters, I thought, man, I just
I don't know if I want Superman killing I don't
know what you think.
Speaker 1: Well, he killed Sod and Supermo as well, and just
to just to draw the distinction here, at least he
struggled with the decision a little bit in Man of Steel,
and when it happened, he cried out in agony, like,
oh no, I've just killed the last Trypton Kryptonian member
of our race Krypton.
Speaker 4: I like how you say it, like Krypton.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't. He didn't smile and wink at him
before I threw him into the chasm.
Speaker 1: I mean it was in in Superman too, as he's
coming up and he's acting like he doesn't have his powers,
and he kneels down. He has got the biggest frown
I've ever seen in my life, like I've got to
hide what's about to happen because I'm just gonna nails out,
so I'm gonna look super super sad. And then he
doesn't just kill him. He crushes his fan and then
throws him, screaming in pain, down a bottomless pit. It's
of the two deaths, I think the quick next step
is what I would choose.
Speaker 3: So that was, you know, when Man of Steel came out.
I'm the person in my circle of friends that whenever
a Star Wars movie comes out, whenever a Superman movie
comes out, people always like go to me first, like,
what'd you think? Right, well, we need to know what
you thought, because if you loved it, then that probably
means it's pretty good and you know all this stuff.
And so I was like the first person people get
into debates with and they were like, oh, man, he
just he let the whole city get trashed and Superman
would never do that, and you know and all that stuff.
He's like, oh, super he snapped his neck. He'd never
you know, Superman would never do that. I'm like, uh,
have you read a Superman story? Like there's times all
the time where somebody dies or or something happens like that,
And the exact same thing. When that came up and
people are like, well, he Superman would never snap his
neck like that, I said, well, have you watched Superman two,
because not only does he, I mean these people are powerless,
Like he has reversed this process, so these are it's
not like he's fighting a super villain in Superman two.
He's now fighting disco Zod and Ursa and Non and
he's just letting them die. And I'm like that to
me now that I think about that as an adult.
As a kid, I was like, yeah, you go Superman,
crush his hand, you do all this stuff, you know,
and wrong again Zod. And as a kid, I was like,
this is awesome. I love this. He's finally getting back
of these people. And I look at that now and
I go, that's that's really sadistic, Like he could have
if the guy can go catch a missile, you know,
if he can fly halfway across the United States and
catch a missile and then possibly fly back and get
the second one and be like, hey, I got both
of them, then I have a feeling that super Superman
could probably zip the what was it fifteen feet to
go like, you know, catch Non before he falls into
the chasm. He could then zip the fifteen feet to
go catch Ursa. He could even let Lois you know,
do her thing and punch Ursa. Right, I'm fine with that,
But then he could go catch her so she doesn't
die and he doesn't have to throw Zod into the
thing and kill him. These are he's killing humans. So
that to me now as an adult and kind of
comparing those situations, that's way more problematic for me when
I actually think about how those villains were done way
with in that movie and knowing the history of the comics.
Actually killing Zod in the comics was something that defined
Superman for many, many, many years. There were moments in
the Superman comics for the next after two to three decades,
after the mid eighties, where Superman would aways bring that up.
He's like, well, the reason I don't kill is because
I did kill Zod. I executed Zod and his generals,
and it tore me up and it made me value
life once I realized what I had done, and there's
always got to be a better way. So that, to
me was that kind of moment is what makes him,
you know, it's it's what's building that character. It's what
makes him the Superman that he will later become. And
when that happened in Man of Steel, I didn't have
a problem with it because I looked at that as
you've got Superman who's been I mean, he's been raised
on Earth. He's a civilian, he's been raised on Earth,
and he's fighting someone that has the exact same power
as he does. With military training, you know probably you know,
self defense, military type training, and so he's not going
to have the same tactical knowledge, the same kind of
fighting skill. You know that and he's he's doing what
he can. Like this is still a very young super
he's only been Superman for what a day, maybe a
couple of days, And so I'm looking at that and
I'm going, well, putting myself in that shoes, Well, what
would I do in that situation? If I saw a
family about to get killed? This guy who is base said,
you've wiped out all the rest of my people. I
have nothing left. I will kill every person on this
earth to get back at you. So he said, I'm
gonna murder everyone. I'm just letting you know. I'm gonna
murder everyone. And I look at that, and I go,
put in that situation, I mean, I would never kill
anyone me personally, and like, no, I would never kill anyone.
But if you put me in that situation, would I
struggle with it? And if push came to shove, would
I snap the guy's neck to save a group of
other people, a family and possibly the rest of the earth. Yeah? Probably? Yeah,
So that scene it doesn't bother me. And what bothers
me more, and this is not necessarily the scope of
our discussion, but what bothers me more is that we
didn't get a man of Steel two to be able
to explore that further. But no, that scene doesn't bother
me because I compare that now with Superman two and
I think, well, actually that seems more callous and a
little bit more sociopathic than you know, the events of
Man of Steel.
Speaker 4: You know, we were talking about this.
Speaker 1: This has been a few weeks ago.
Speaker 4: It had never even occurred to me that Superman killed
all three of those villains in Superman two, because I'm
still looking at it through a child's eyes. Apparently there's
rumors of some cut out there that shows that these
criminals were arrested and taken to jail.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that didn't you you did some research
on that, like there was I saw it that where
they he arrested Lex Luthor. Right, the Arctic Police come
in and arrest Lex Luthor, the Arctic Arctic Police who
happened to also get access to Fortress so Solitude. I
think Lewis called nine one one.
Speaker 3: In the in the there's a superphone they have. They
have a little it's it's under a glass jar. It's
like what used to have you just you pick up
the glass jar. It's like a it's like a you know,
Kryptonian crystal jar.
Speaker 4: The that's one of the things that he did in
the molecule chambers were called nine to one.
Speaker 1: One, right, But apparently the rumor that the through Kryptonian
villains get arrested and put in human jail is just that,
it's just a rumor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, but I will say this when we talked
about this, so and I'm moving in towards my final
judgment here, but after rewatching these Man of Steel is
better than I remember it being initially, Superman two is
worse than I remember it being originally. But at the time,
Superman two did a great job of manipulating my feelings
as a little boy. Yeah, and I was telling indeed
that when he goes into the molecule chamber and there's
red on the outside rather than the inside, I didn't
catch that when I saw it in the theater.
Speaker 1: And so when he starts crushing his hand, I'm like, wait,
what what? And then I'm like yes, So that scene
charged me up.
Speaker 4: When los Lane punches out Versa that I got fired
up about that.
Speaker 1: I was so excited. We didn't touch on this, but
this is a major factor in what's going on in
those scenes. And how you feel emotionally at the time
of the day of Zod and his hinchment with Superman.
You've got John Williams score, which I mean, arguably the
best superhero score in all of history, right, And I
will tell you that, you know, I heard about Dick
Donner coming in and hearing this for the first time,
and he said something that made that that gave me
vindication because I will sing Superman to my kids whenever
we're putting it on in the car and I go Superman,
I mean, I love it. And but apparently that was
exactly Dick Donner's reaction when he heard William's theme for
Superman was you are saying it with the music and
it's fantastic. When he crushes his hand, you get that
score coming in with d and you're like, yes, it's
a victory, We've got the victory theme. But when he's
having to decide to kill Zod, it's agonizing. You've got
You've got Zimmer's intense, emotional, non automatic music just pulling
at you, and it's yeah, it totally changes your perspective
to where you think, oh gosh, this is horrible, this
is horrible. Superman's killing somebody, Well, that's what they want
you to think, because it is horrible. It's just that
in Superman they made it funny and.
Speaker 4: Justified and John I thought for a second the d
was going to sing can you read my line?
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely the most awkward moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, horrible that Margaret did.
Speaker 3: Yeah. In terms of the music, I mean that since
since we're talking music, I have a really hard time
with this one. As I was, as I was doing
my back and forth of all right, well, okay, you
get John Williams on Zimmer, let's go back and forth
with it. And then who did they replace John Williams
with for to ken Thorn. Yeah, And you know, I
and I spent the last few days I had my
Spotify playlist up and I just put I put all
the soundtracks together and I was like, I'm just gonna
listen to this, back and forth, back and forth, back
and forth. And you know what, the John Williams you
can't argue with that. It's it's iconic, it is it
is Superman. It's I mean, that's been for ever since
nineteen seventy eight Hans Zimmer's score. Nobody's going to do that.
When my son was really really little still in his
car seat, I'd put on like the planet Krypton theme
from Superman, and when it would when it would get
to the point where it just crescendoed, he'd like, I'm
not eve going to do it right, but he'd like
throw both arms up in the air back in his
car seat, and I was like, okay, I've raised you well,
Like I really could just stop now because you know
this has been successful. But you know you've got that,
You've got the John Williams, you know, had that very
kind of synthesizer creepy, you know, the almost like the
little the Kryptonian zod theme that got continued on through
Superman to I will say though that overall as an
entire movie, As an entire film, I think that the
Hans Zimmer score did a little bit better job for
me of filling in the filling in the atmosphere of
that movie. Like if I look at the if I
look at the original Superman and Superman to score, I
can probably in my mind I can probably pick out,
oh yeah, there's like three pieces of music that I
can remember, right, And that's if I ignore the can
you read my mind part, which I'm constantly trying to
do I wish, I wish there was some kind of
a super kiss that could get that one out of
my mind. But then I think about the Hans Zimmer
score and I'm like, Okay, is there anything in there
that's as memorable as the Planet Crypton theme as the
John Williams Superman theme. No, but in the movie as
a whole overall, that that fills that movie so much
better than the John Williams score does.
Speaker 1: They did some neat things with Hans Zimmer's score musically,
like he Superman, being as an American as he is,
he wanted to take something that was a uniquely American instrument,
which is the pedal steel guitar, which you typically hear
in like bluegrass and country music. But he changed it
in such a way that it becomes the string section.
So you've got a really unique sound of those strings
that you can recognize from from the Man of Steel score.
And then on those intense scenes, it's all drums, and
for that one we get like nine different.
Speaker 4: Drums, like twelve of the world's greatest drummers, yeah, including
Sheila e and Jason Bonham.
Speaker 1: And so he puts them in a. He puts them
in a circle, puts the microphone in the middle of
the circle, and to give the effect of being surrounded
by these intense primal drums.
Speaker 4: All right, so final judgment, I'm with Superman one and
two over Man of Steel.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I got to say that after watching these movies again,
I had the same reaction you did. I liked Man
of Steel better than I did at the beginning, and
I loved it at the beginning. I gotta say Man
of Steel is a better movie. It's plot structure is better,
the character development is better. The setting for Smallville, the
setting for Krypton, the struggle that Clark has are all better.
And so as much as it pains me as much
of a fan of the original movies as I am
and was, Man of Steel is a better movie. Now,
I'll say this, Superman will always be. Christopher Reeve to me,
if you say Superman, that's the first thing that I
want to think of. And he brought something to the
character that Henry Cavill did, and Henry Cavill did a
great job, and especially the moment that he's standing watching
his father about to die, that is an emotionally moving
moment for me and a fantastic performance had the same
feeling I felt whenever Superman Christopher Reeve finds Lowess dead
and cries out. Both of those were emotionally impactful performances.
But whereas Christopher Reeve will always be Superman in my mind,
I've got to say Man of Steel some better movie, John.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I all right, I truth. I almost wanted to
pull in Eric Cartman that I hate you guys so much. Jason,
you kind of you reference or one of you guys
referenced early on that in in my episodes, I did
where I talked about like the history of Superman, and
and I did my ranking of it. I think I
said that Superman one was number one for me, Man
of Steel was number two, and Superman two was number three.
And so, having rewatched these movies, having talked it out
with you guys here, having taken copious notes, you know,
and scared my family because they thought I was turning
into a serial killer, like all these composition notebooks full
of tiny handwriting, I think I've come out the other
side of this with James. I think I'm very much
on the same page you are. That nothing will ever
replace Superman one and two. For me, I mean far
and above. Christopher Reeve will always I always look at
him and think Superman. Nothing can ever replace the times
that I had, you know, watching these movies with my dad,
with my family, and just the memories that are attached
with those. I love Superman one, I love Superman two.
But that being said some of the things that we've
said here too, I think that Man of Steel, and
I know that this is a this is an unpopular
opinion because a lot of people don't like Man of Steel.
Man of Steel has always been my favorite of the
more recent DC movies, even including I think the Batman movies,
the Christopher Nolan Batman movies. I Man of Steel is
my favorite. I guess you wouldn't even call those DCEU
because that was we weren't there yet. But it's my
favorite DC movie of the last, you know, probably a
couple of decades. And I think for some of the
very similar reasons that it's just I get more backstory,
I get more emotional involvement in the character of Clark
and the character of Superman, the character of Lois, even
the character of Zod. I have more of a emotional
visceral reaction to what's going on in this movie. I
care more about these characters. Not that I didn't care
about them when I was a kid watching the other ones,
but it was very much. Sometimes it's the difference between
Sometimes people that are like Marvel fans of DC fans
will make this distinction. Marvel will say, well, our stuff
is grounded in reality. We have our characters in Boston
and New York and San Diego, whereas you guys made
up towns like Gotham and Metropolis, and we're you know,
our characters, we have a scientific reason why they have
powers and and you know, so there's a difference between
like your grounded explanation for superheroes and more of like
your godlike legends. And I think that Superman and Superman
two fall into that very comic book centric, godlike legend
of Superman. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and
I absolutely love that about those movies. But I think
for someone who wants to dig into the story and
understand why these characters are doing what they're doing, why
does he become the Superman that we all know and love,
Why does he fall in love with Lois? Who are
the parents that raised him to think this way and
to be this way. Who's the villain that just I
mean almost perfectly matches with what he's struggling with at
the time in this movie and how he has to
I mean, like we said, he is agonized when he
kills Zod at the end, because all he's ever wanted
is to belong. All he's ever wanted is to fit in.
He's finally found his people, and he has had to
kill the last of his other than himself, he's had
to kill the last of his people, so he's had
to completely destroy the one thing that he has wanted
his entire life is just to fit in. And so
I think for those reasons, I kind of I have
to go Man of Steel in this case, you know.
But it's it's really a struggle to say that because
it just I love the other Superman movies so much,
and you know, the next time I watch him, it
might be like I might watch Superman again and be like,
oh no, you know what original Superman is number one again?
You know, to me, I get more emotional involvement in
Man of Steel. We get to see him develop as
a kid, we get to see him develop as a hero.
That's one of the things. Even as a kid. One
of the things that I didn't I understood the reason
for it. You know, in trying to fit in like
the Biblical imagery, that you would have a stretch of
time where well, we don't know what happened to Clark
in this stretch of time, you know, from eighteen to thirty.
We don't know, Like he just disappeared for an amount
of time and then he came back and started his
for lack of a better term, started his ministry of
being Superman. And you know, that's fine, and that's fine
for that movie, but I'll take another line for the Bible.
That was fine when I was a child, and now
that I'm older, I put away a childish things and
I want more explanation. I want more of that story.
I want to know my characters and I want to
make that connection with them. I want to see a
Lois that my Superman would fall in love with, that
he would look at her and say, this is the
humanity that I'm here to say, I will. I wanted
to before we ended, I did want to pull these
out that I love. This is This is the part
I love about both of these movies is just the
kind of ideal that this is trying to build up.
And I love both of these speeches from Joel, and
so I didn't want to, you know, skip being able
to read these or take a look at these. And
in his speech in the Fortress of Solitude, and he says,
you know, live as one of them, kell El, discover
where your strength and your power are needed. Always hold
in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They
can be a great people, Kelll if they wish to be.
They only lack the light to show the way. For
this reason, above all their capacity for good, I have
sent them you, my only son. And then I also
wrote down the one from Man of Steel, and I
just I love both of these. You know, Jorel says,
you will give the people of Earth an ideal to
strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble,
they will fall, but in time they will join you
in the sun cal In time you will help them
accomplish wonders. And I think that's part of where I
hit that difference is I love the speech by Marlon
Brando Jorel, But I will say I teared up in
the theater when I listen to Russell Crowe deliver that speech.
They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall,
but in time they will join you in the sun.
And it actually comes from a Superman comic where it's
a story in which Superman his life is coming to
an end. He's actually going to send himself into the
sun and that's going to be his final resting place.
And so Jorel's speech and that's actually where a Man
of Steel took it from his speech, and that one
is your work is done. You have shown them the
face of the man of tomorrow. You have given them
an ideal to aspire to, embodied their highest aspirations. They
will race and stumble and fall and crawl and curse,
and finally they will join you in the sun. Call el.
In time you will no longer be alone. And I
think that that like bringing that piece into Man of Steel,
and just the way that speech is delivered and what
that speech says, like it's it makes me even now,
like makes me emotional to think about that. You know,
the father speaking that to his son, and that's that
emotional piece. I get that emotional piece every time I
watch Man of Steel. I love Superman one and two
but I don't get the emotional connection to those. So
I think for that reason and just because of some
of the other things we've said about how I think
there's just more there's more meat to Man of Steel.
I got to go Man of Steel.
Speaker 1: The speech by Russell Crowe. They used it for the trailer,
and I can remember really distinctly when the trailers came
out for Man of Steel before the movie came out,
because the visual that you had and both trailers were
the same, but in one you had that speech from
Jirell and then the other one you have an admonishing
speech from Jonathan Kent.
Speaker 3: You have to decide what kind of man you want
to grow up to be.
Speaker 2: Whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's going
to change the world.
Speaker 1: I can remember seeing those commercials and it is the
scene from the movie where they're looking at nine year
old Clark Kent and he's playing around in the yard
and he's got a cape on and he you know,
you see him stand up tall, put his chest out,
put his hands on his hips in the iconic Superman pose.
And I remember watching the first time, and I think
my wife was next to me, and I said, even
Superman wanted to be Superman when he was a boy,
and that's the way it is. I think for all
all young men, it's that that ideal to strive for.
We are always striving to be Superman. Okay, well I
think that does it for this episode or all likelihood episodes. John,
I really appreciate you coming out and being with us
for all of these episodes. It's been great fun to
have you and so inspiring to hear your input on
these great, great stuff. Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you guys for having me out. I
can't wait to I mean, obviously when this comes up
in my feed, Like I said, I jumped to you
guys first, I like block all of the podcasts. Got
to find out what they're going to argue about this time.
So I'll be looking forward to this one too. Oh.
Speaker 4: Thanks man, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to all our listeners, please, if you haven't already,
go check out thirty something movie podcast. You can find
them on Twitter at thirty Podcasts on Twitter. And is
it the same on Facebook?
Speaker 3: John, Yeah, it's pretty much. If you do three zero
and podcast, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, you know there's probably something
that's come out in the next three days that I'll
sign up for. But yeah, thirty podcasts wherever.
Speaker 1: Thank you all again. We're overwhelmed by the support that
we've been getting for our podcast. We really love that
you love what we're doing and we're just going to
keep on going as long as you're listening.
Speaker 4: All right, we'd love to have five star review, five
star review for thirty seven podcast. We'll give you a
big old fat superciss.
Speaker 1: We won't even give you amnesia.
Speaker 3: And then here and you know what, and once we
give you that supercass, you'll forget that you left a
five star review, so then I can go leave another one.
Speaker 1: All music images and movie clips are used for the
purposes of commentary and education in conjunction with the fair
Use agreement under the US copyright law. Come here and
kiss your mom.