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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Shruly you Can't Be

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Serious Podcasts. This is part two of our Superman versus

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Man of Steel episode. I just want to say thank

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you to all the support you guys are giving us.

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We truly appreciate it. Thank you to all our Facebook fans,

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Matt Farmer, I'm looking at you. And thank you to

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Joey Jarvis who sent us an email suggesting a matchup

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between Gooni's and Grimlins and Ferris Bueller's Day Off and

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Breakfast Club. Excellent suggestions. If you all have any suggestions,

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please email them to us or hit us up on

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Twitter or Facebook. Next week we will begin Synchronousity by

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the Police and Frontiers by Journey, So please hit subscribe

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on your podcast app now so that you're sure not

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to miss those episodes. So, without further.

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Speaker 2: Ado, Hello everybody, welcome to the Surely you Can't Be

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Serious podcast, discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten

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of eighties and nineties pop culture with your co hosts

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James D. Graves and Jason Holliday Live.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, we're back for part two of the Superman

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one and two versus Man of Steel debate once again.

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John Reid from the thirty something Movie podcast is joining us.

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Speaker 3: Hey John, Hey guys, I'm really excited. Thank you so

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much for having me back here. I am I'm ready

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to throw down like that that Muhammad Ali Superman think.

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I'm ready to throw down. Mite this out. You know,

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May the best Superman win, all right.

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Speaker 4: I know that in Man of Steel there is no

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Lex Luthor, but I think we should talk about Gene

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Hackman for just a second.

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Speaker 1: Gene Hackman is maybe, next to Christopher Reeve, my favorite

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part of the Superman one and two series. He is

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not the mustache twirling villain at all. Anything that you

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get from him that's evil is just dialogue that he's speaking.

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In all other respects, he seems kind of like a

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funny guy and easy to get along with, other than

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he's so full of himself.

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Speaker 4: When he was hired, he had a mustache.

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Speaker 1: This is like mustache Gene Hackman. Yeah, the original posters

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had a picture of Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman, and

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Gene Hackman had a full on Mustache's crazy and he

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didn't want to shave.

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Speaker 4: Didn't want to shave his mustache. Number one didn't want

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to shave his head either. But Dick Donner called him

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and he said, all right, listen, dude, if you if

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you'll shave your mustache, I'll shave my mustache. So Hagman's like,

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all right, Well, Dick Donner didn't have a mustache.

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Speaker 3: Not only that, he when he said I'll shave my

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mustache if you shave yours, he actually had a fake

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mustache on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then after Gene Hackman, Yeah, after Gene Hackman shaped

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his he's like all right, He's like, okay, cool and pep.

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And that's the story why Gene Hackman didn't come back

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for the sequel.

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Speaker 4: I think it's funny that, like Sluther' is supposed to

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have all these hair pieces. But I mean, anybody you

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know who were there's a two bay that has a bultiplier.

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So anytime you see Hackman, it's bald. It's a bald cat.

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But I love Gene Hackman. He's charming, he's funny. I

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talked to you the other day and I'm like, when

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he first meets Superman and kind of lures him too

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his layer by making that vague thread about toxin gas

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or whatever. He doesn't have a plan to commit any

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kind of crime, and yet he has instant credibility and

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Superman shows up and not kicks in his door.

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Speaker 1: I'm like that happens every day on Twitter. In addition

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to Lex Luthor, we didn't have Otis, who was played

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by Beatie, who was fantastic.

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Speaker 3: It means mister luthworw it.

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Speaker 1: Just aside real quick. The officers, the police officers and

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Superman one not only know who Lex Luthor is, but

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know who his goons are because they see Otis inside

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to start following. That scene when the guy gets pushed

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in front of the train was draumatic for me as

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a kid. I remember that. But his partner, the other

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I guess he must have done pretty well because he

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ends up being the police chief for Riggs and murdoffin

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that sign says Riggs, Yeah, but I don't give up.

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Speaker 4: You don't have Miss Testmaker in a Man of Steel either, No,

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you don't.

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Speaker 1: Valet Perene, oh my word.

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Speaker 4: Her cleavage caused the entire US military.

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Speaker 1: To fall apart at the end of Superman One, Right,

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I mean the I Dream of Jeanie Guy had some

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five transferred over to the Army branch, and he was

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high enough in command to be solely responsible.

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Speaker 4: She literally lays down, shows her boobs, and he assumes

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control of nuclear weapon.

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Speaker 1: I can remember it's so I have it. He's ten

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years old right now, and this has been five years

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because he has been five four or five years old.

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And I had Superman on a tablet of some kind

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and he was sitting with me, and we're watching Superman

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for the first time, and it gets to that scene

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where she's in the green bathing suit and she's laying

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down and you know, her chest is just in her arms,

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and my four to five year old son pushes pause

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on the tablet, stops stops going, and goes dad, when

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I grow up and get married, I'm going to marry

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a girl like her, all right, Drell? Okay, so Durell.

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We've got Marlon Brando, who we've talked about, and Russell

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Crowe from Man of Steel. Marlon Brando was paid three

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point and there's some rough estimation on the figures here,

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but somewhere between three point five and three point seven

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million dollars for his performance in this which is less

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than twenty minutes long, and then got an absurd percentage

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on the back end of like eleven and three quarters

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and still sue to get more money. And then before

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they started shooting, he called and tried to convince Dick

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Donner that instead of having him appear on screen, that

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they could do a talking suitcase or a bagel of

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some kind, because nobody knows what Kryptonians really look like,

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so why not just use his voice. It's funny to

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listen to an interview with him about the amount of

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money that he was paid. People pay what they deem

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something is worth, and some things are worth more than others.

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Cars are worth more than hula hoops, which I listened

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to it, I laughed out loud just because of the idea.

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And then I watched the movie. I was like, oh

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my gosh, there's actually hula hoops in his scene. Yeah, yeah,

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the hula hoops that are keeping the criminals from escaping.

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Speaker 4: And in fairness to him, though, he's absolutely right and

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he was the key piece to getting this done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, I mean, certainly he had the star

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power to demand what he got, and you know, Dick

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Donner and his interview says, I was really skeptical of

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the idea of paying Marlon Branda this much money, but

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once I started working with him, I realized, yeah, he's

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worth it. Well what about Russell Crowe? Where are we

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with Russell Crowe? Okay, so I know you love Russell,

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love us. We've had this talk. I didn't like him

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and Gladiator, but I thought he did fantastic in this.

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I thought he was a compelling drill who was smart

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and active and had a plan, and he was great.

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He's great as a hologram. This part was a little confused.

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Speaker 4: I always have this the AI, you know, can they

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hear me?

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Speaker 1: Can they understand me? Are they thinking? This whole thing

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is a little bit confusing to me. But I like

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both the actors. I just I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think you could almost make a case that Man

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of Steel that you didn't really need all this stuff,

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but you could start with Clark.

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Speaker 1: On The Deadliest Catch. Well see, now that's an interesting comparison.

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I've got that over here. So when I watched Man

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of Steel, I was like, Wow, they are really spending

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a significant amount of time on Krypton here, right, You're

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getting a whole lot more story than you got with Superman.

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I mean, they fleshed out the place. You get a

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better understanding of why z Odd is rebelling against the people.

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You get a better trial scene. Durrell has an entire

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storyline that goes along with why he's doing what he's doing,

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has time to dive into the water and get the

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Codex to take I mean, this is I was like, Wow,

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they must have spent like a ton of time. I looked,

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it's twenty minutes from beginning of movie until Krypton explodes

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in Man of Steel. In Superman, it's twenty one minutes. Wow.

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And I thought they gave you so much more detail

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and depth in Man of Steel about what Krypton was

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like and why these characters were doing what they were

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doing than you ever got in Superman.

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Speaker 4: Did you know that that's roughly the same amount of

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time that the kid who fell off with the Niagara

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Fallers as he fell took about twenty minutes for Superman

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to get us act together and go rescue that kid.

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Speaker 1: And when he you know, after he appears, saves Lowis

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Lane for the first time and thinks, think I'll shoot

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the rest of the night away fighting minor crime, and

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he confronts the cat burglar who's crawling up up the windows,

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and that guy starts to fall once again. Superman's got

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a time to smirk, shake his head.

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Speaker 5: Oh well, I guess zoom down and get him all right.

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Speaker 4: I do want to throw in real quick Kevin Costner

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and Diane Lane as mol and Paul Kent.

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Speaker 1: I love what they did in this, absolutely love it.

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With the Superman movies, you've got, you get a very

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brief glimpse of Martha and Jonathan Kent. They have a

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great little you know bit where they discover him, and

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you have the falling truck, which I think will live

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in everybody's memory forever as the little kid lifts that

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truck up. A quick side note on that guy. The

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guy's name is the little kid, you know, the little

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kid who's naked and then who's lifting up the truck.

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His name is Aaron Smolensky, and he is the only

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actor who has been in Superman one, Superman three, and

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Man of Steel. He was remember in Superman three where

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he goes into the photo booth and like it has

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pictures of him changing from Clark kend to Superman. He

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played the kid at the photo booth on that one.

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And then of course he's an adult now and so

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he played a communications Officer and Man of Steel. And

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there's some sort of fan film that there is in

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development right now called Superman Versus Doomsday, and if it

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gets made, he'll be Lex Luthor in that he's bald now,

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so it looks like it could go to looks Lex Luthor.

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But what an interesting life that guy has to have

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had it so far. But back to mon Pap Kent,

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Jonathan and Martha Kent. You don't get much from him,

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I mean, especially mock Kent. You don't get much at all.

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She's just kind of there, yeah, homely, she's old man,

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she's a little silver headed old woman. You don't get

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much from her other than you know, I love you,

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don't forget, I'll never forget. But you got way different

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parents in this one. Martha Kent is fan for fantastic.

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I love her. Diane Lane. You know she can pull

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off young and old very easily. I bought her being

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old enough to be his mom and then obviously beautiful. Yeah,

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she's still still can pull off being very young as well.

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Speaker 4: And Kevin Costner does a great sort of midwestern you know,

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I kept waiting for him to ask him if you

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want to have a catch, you know, I mean he's great.

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He's mister Field of Dreams, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And people had a problem with Jonathan Kent when

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Clark Kent says, should I just have let them die?

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Him saying maybe, but you've got to have that in

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order to establish within Clark. How critical the idea of

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people cannot know what you can do.

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Speaker 4: I totally agree with that. I've heard the criticism. But

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I mean, you and I have teenagers, John, I mean

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your kids are not teenagers.

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Speaker 3: Yet, but no, my oldest is twelve.

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Speaker 4: Okay, even if for a twelve year old to have

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godlike powers at that age and the decision making abilities,

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and Kevin Costner is, why is telling him let's wait,

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Let's wait until you're ready to become the greatest being

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on this earth.

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Speaker 3: When people were making such a big deal out of that,

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I kept thinking the same thing was, well, first of all,

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it's a movie. Second of all, put yourself in that

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person's place. You get the portrayal of Manpa Kent is

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in the original Superman movie is very much your classic. Well,

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it's a kindly old farm couple and they've raised this

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boy to be their own and they, you know, good

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Midwestern United States values, and everybody. You know, it's all

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very pure, and it's all there's not a whole lot

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of complication here, And you put yourself in the character

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of what Jonathan Kent as a human would have been like,

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and I feel like, well, I can't imagine I would

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be any different, Like I would be a little paranoid,

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and I would be concerned that if I let this slip,

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somebody's taken my son away and they're going to experiment

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on him and they're gonna do all this other crazy stuff.

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Speaker 4: And not to mention, you have people start asking questions

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about how you illegally adopted a child.

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Speaker 3: Right to me, I didn't have a problem with that

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when that whole thing came out, and I remember seeing

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that in the trailer, and I remember having a discussion

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with it. Might be might have been Jeff, one of

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the other guys that's on the podcast with us sometimes

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we might have had a discussion about that, and he

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was like, well, how do you feel about that? And

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I was like, you know what, First of all, it's

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in a trailer, so it could be completely out of context.

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So let's actually watch the movie and see and he's like,

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that makes sense. And even watching the movie and that line,

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it's like, you know, should I should I have let

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them die? Maybe? Well, okay, So watching this as an

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audience member watching a movie, I can sit there and

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have the luxury of saying, oh, Jonathan, no, no, no,

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bad advice, bad advice. But as a person, like if

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I'm living in this world and if that's me, I

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probably would say something like that. I might regret it

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later on and they're like, Okay, I made a mistake.

264
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Never mind. You know, we don't let anybody ever die.

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But in the moment when I've got a scared kid

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that's asking me questions, and like you said, he's got

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this godlike power at age thirteen or whatever he was, yeah,

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i'd probably be a little freaked out too.

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Speaker 1: Another detail touch just you don't even notice it. I

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know this because I watched them behind the scenes. When

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he ultimately shows Clark the spaceship that he came to

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Earth in, you get these extreme close ups of the

273
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desk behind him, and it's all his research on alien

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life and you know, Extraterrestrial's UFO sightings, all of this.

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They went to the trouble to get all of that

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prepared for that tiny little scene that you don't even see.

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It's she's kind of kind of crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, before we jump ahead, I did want to say

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one thing about Diane Lane's Martha Kent is to me,

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that's and I'm fine with the kindly old Martha Kent too.

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I mean that's traditionally, that's how she's portrayed in nearly

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everything else. But this Diane Lane Martha Kent, like she

283
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stands up to Zod And if you're a mother who

284
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has raised the child and he eventually, someday is going

285
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to become Superman, that's the Martha Kent that I would

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expect to see, like someone who You've got this alien

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in front of you that has ridiculous power. He's you know,

288
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there's a couple of the other theres too. They've thrown

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a truck into your house, and you're still going to

290
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stand up to the guy. Like, to me, that Superman's mom.

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Speaker 1: He has powers as we do, certainly, but oh, magnificent one.

292
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He is just one, or you are three or four

293
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if you're counting twice.

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Speaker 3: You know, in terms of the character of Non they've

295
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introduced him into the newer comics and he's got a

296
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much more tragic story I think that his story in

297
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the newer comics is he was friends with Joelle and

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he was he was a member of the Kryptonian Council,

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and he he was likebotomized. Yeah, he was lobottomized. And

300
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so every time you know, Joel sees him up until

301
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the destruction of Krypton, like it breaks his heart because

302
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that was a very close friend of his. And so

303
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it's obviously got a little bit more of a backstory

304
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when when you add that piece into it. One of

305
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the one of the characters that I was hoping that

306
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we would mention but didn't get mentioned. He's only in

307
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the original Superman for one or two seconds. The actor's name,

308
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,799
I believe is Bo Rucker, and he played the pimp

309
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in Superman exactly. That's and I didn't want to. I

310
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didn't want us to go beyond the actors and the

311
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characters without mentioning the pimp, because that is possibly the

312
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best line in the movie. And there have been times,

313
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and I love that my children have no idea what

314
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I'm quoting up until they see the movie and they're like, oh,

315
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,720
so you didn't make that up, that's where you got

316
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that from. But there are times where if my kids

317
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,639
will come in the room, they'll be like, Dad, this

318
00:16:49,679 --> 00:16:50,840
is what I'm wearing to church today?

319
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Speaker 1: Is this okay?

320
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,279
Speaker 3: Or or Dad, this is what I've got on? Is

321
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,840
this all right? A lot of times I'll go say, Jim,

322
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,320
that's a bad outfit, but that is the best. I

323
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mean just and seeing that as a kid, that completely

324
00:17:04,039 --> 00:17:06,920
blew over my head of how funny that is. But

325
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as an adult and Christopher Reeve his response to the

326
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whole thing, that is probably one of the most hilarious,

327
00:17:13,759 --> 00:17:17,039
like three or four seconds in the entire movie, because

328
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he does the whole revolving door thing, steps outside and

329
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the pimp says his line, say Jim, that's a bad outfit,

330
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and Superman just goes, excuse me, puts one finger and

331
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that flies away, just like that. You could just have

332
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played me that four seconds and I would have said,

333
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you know what, Superman's the greatest movie. It's ever That's

334
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all I need to see.

335
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Speaker 1: Young Clark in Superman movies was played by Jeff East. Now,

336
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when I watched these movies, I was like, holy cow,

337
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they've got a guy who sounds exactly like Christopher Reeve

338
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to play the young Christopher Reeve. I mean it doesn't

339
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look like in that much, but his voice is identical.

340
00:17:54,079 --> 00:17:57,480
No wonder they picked this guy. Yeah, so I was dumb.

341
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Chris Reeve dubbed all those lines. Yeah, and they did

342
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,960
it was that Jeff East's knowledge. Now, Jeff East has

343
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been in a few other movies. Do you guys remember

344
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the old Tom Sawry movie with the red headed Tom

345
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Sawyer and Jodie Foster was He played Huck Finn in

346
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that movie, like a big bet y'all, what's doing on

347
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:15,640
the good?

348
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Speaker 4: Drubbing in the bottom of the mud, happy good and

349
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we don't give.

350
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Speaker 1: A hoot a. He was really upset when he saw

351
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the movie and saw that his lines had been dubbed

352
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over by Christopher Reeve. He didn't know, the producers didn't

353
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tell him that was going to happen. He didn't know

354
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what was gonna happen. So he was a little irritated.

355
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And then another interesting story for him. You know they're

356
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doing he does the train race where they've got him

357
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kind of an absurd running thing, but I loved it

358
00:18:42,599 --> 00:18:45,480
when I was a kid. His gait is a little strange,

359
00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:48,319
It is a little a little bit weird, but they

360
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do that scene where he jumps in front of the

361
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train just at the last second, and they're using a

362
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real train, and he said he almost died at some

363
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point as they were trying to film this because one

364
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,039
of the cables didn't do the like one of the

365
00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:06,359
cranes didn't do the right thing, and he swung back

366
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around and Richard Hackman, Gene Hackman's brother, who was the

367
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stunt guy on the scene, grabbed him before he swung

368
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back in front of the train and died.

369
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Speaker 3: Now, since you brought it up, that was one of

370
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the things that I really liked about how Man of

371
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,759
Steel handled the young Clark Kent piece was and I

372
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thought it was a pretty It was a fresh take

373
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on it that I just had not seen before watching

374
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that and thinking, you know what, the way he's dealing

375
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with these powers and these sensations that he just can't understand,

376
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it really reminded me of you know a lot of

377
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times when a student will get diagnosed with some kind

378
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of a learning disability or whatever it might be, and

379
00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:51,480
I thought, you know, what, is that the route that

380
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:52,960
they're going to kind of take with this is that,

381
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you know what, if we think of Superman as or

382
00:19:55,559 --> 00:19:57,200
what if we think of Clark Kent as he was

383
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a child that from the outside world he grew up

384
00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:02,200
with some kind of a disability like that would be

385
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,440
an interesting take that I've never seen or heard of before.

386
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:09,000
And just the way that you know his mom, you know,

387
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:11,839
he panics because he you know, sees through his teacher,

388
00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:14,079
which would freak out anybody. I'm glad he didn't stop

389
00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:19,519
and be like pink, that would make pink that the

390
00:20:19,559 --> 00:20:23,880
teacher says, that's all awkward. But and then you know,

391
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,880
he runs and locks himself in that closet, and then

392
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,960
his mom has to come and kind of talk him

393
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,440
through the whole thing, and he can hear all the

394
00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:32,279
kids making the comments about him outside the room, and

395
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:35,519
the way she's just calming him down and trying to

396
00:20:35,559 --> 00:20:38,240
get him kind of back out of this panic that

397
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he's in. I mean, I've seen students who actually do that.

398
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,519
They just the world just overwhelms them so much. The

399
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,680
sensory stuff that's coming in just gets to them so

400
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,400
much that they just cannot they don't know how to

401
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:51,920
process it.

402
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,039
Speaker 1: His life is a lonely existence, and the story of

403
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,880
young Clerk Kent in Man of Steel, I mean real

404
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,279
informs who he is as an adult. And even going

405
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,839
back and watching the original Superman movies with Christopher Reeve,

406
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,279
you get that loneliness as well. There's this scene where

407
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:15,000
he's tried to get Lois to go out with him,

408
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:17,000
and she won't go out with him, and then he

409
00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:18,839
tries to say hi to the guys in the hall

410
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,119
as he's waiting for the elevator, and he gets ignored,

411
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,839
and then he's just kind of standing there waiting on

412
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:30,240
the elevator, and there's this sense of loneliness of this

413
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:33,200
is what comes with being Superman. It's not you know,

414
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,279
we all think, oh gosh, I just want to be Superman,

415
00:21:35,319 --> 00:21:39,680
but there's this huge isolation that comes with the job

416
00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:41,799
that it's tough. I'll tell you what.

417
00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 4: Though, Superman as a strange child or a lonely man

418
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,799
as a whole lot better than Superman as a stalker.

419
00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:52,839
That you get and Superman returns when he breaks into

420
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,559
that person's house. And I mean, if you got Superman

421
00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:57,359
as an intruder, you got a problem.

422
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:01,519
Speaker 1: I'm bullying. I've got a full note on this one.

423
00:22:01,599 --> 00:22:04,480
Bullying is a huge part of this. And John, I

424
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:06,720
feel like and I could be totally making this up

425
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,359
in my head, but I feel like you posted maybe

426
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,640
an article a few months ago on kind of the

427
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,960
notion of bullying and that sometimes it makes gids stronger.

428
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,279
And Chris Rock's got a comedy specialist on Netflix right now,

429
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,119
where like he finds out that they have a no

430
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,960
tolerance policy for bullying at his daughter's school, and he's like,

431
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,319
I almost pulled her out right Then he says, bullies

432
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,240
made me who I am, And so it's you know,

433
00:22:35,319 --> 00:22:39,279
bullying is a huge part of the backstory of a

434
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,680
Superman in both movies. You get more of it in

435
00:22:43,759 --> 00:22:47,240
the original trilogy with the Smallville guy. What was that

436
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:52,160
guy's name? Brad? What a slimee ball? But then in

437
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,039
the Man of Steel when you get I mean you

438
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,519
imagine if you were able to hear every ugly thing

439
00:22:57,599 --> 00:22:58,839
that people said about you.

440
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 3: Right, what would that turn you into? If you had

441
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,079
if you could hear everything in town? Yeah, when you

442
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,599
heard every rumor, you heard every kid whispering about you.

443
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: That idea is what is the driving force behind the

444
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,240
whole beginning story for Man of Steel? I mean, the

445
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,480
whole story really for Man of Steel? Is this unspoken

446
00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:23,680
question for Clark, which is is humanity worth saving? Because

447
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,200
you get Seen after Seen, where you've got humans being

448
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,640
despicable followed up by humans doing the right thing. You've

449
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,640
got the guy saving his life on the what were

450
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,279
they doing on the boat? Yeah, catch man? You know,

451
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,359
he saves his life and then he calls you know

452
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,240
these calls him a dumba. But this kind of means like,

453
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,279
you know, even though he thinks I'm an idiot, He's

454
00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:47,480
still saved me, which then leads to him, you know,

455
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:50,000
saving all those guys on the oil ricord. You've got

456
00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:52,519
the kids being mean to him, and then his mom

457
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:55,119
comes in and it's nice to him. You've got p

458
00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:58,039
Ross being mean to him on the bus before Lana

459
00:23:58,079 --> 00:23:59,960
is nice to him, which leads to him saving peace.

460
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,000
Then you got the bully, you know, picking on him

461
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,079
while he's reading Plato, and and who is it that

462
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,759
shows up to be nice? It's Pete Ross who he's changed,

463
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:12,119
you know, it's it's this you got.

464
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:13,839
Speaker 3: You got the guy at the bar later on that

465
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,799
throws the beer at him, right, and.

466
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: The waitress who's you know, He's like, it's not worth it, honey,

467
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,680
And then and then it all culminates with Lois who

468
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,880
you know, she's going to get the story. She's going

469
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,240
to get the story. She finally figures it out, but

470
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,920
when she realizes what's at stake, she drops it. She

471
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,839
doesn't let him go, which then gives you those lines

472
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,839
later on where he says thank you and she says

473
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,839
for what and he says for believing in me and

474
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,200
she said it didn't end up meaning very much and

475
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:44,240
he says it did for me.

476
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,759
Speaker 3: That's She's She's the humanity that's worth saving.

477
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:51,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the whole question. And you talked about

478
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:53,279
this in your podcast. And this was a huge deal

479
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,279
for me. When I saw Manfteel the first time, I

480
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,480
was kind of heavily into reading the Bible at that point,

481
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:02,039
and so when I saw Man of Steel, I was like,

482
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:06,119
holy smokes, there's a lot of Christ references in this

483
00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:09,440
in this movie. I was like, I learned about You know,

484
00:25:09,599 --> 00:25:11,440
that was Donner's intent, and you can see it in

485
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,720
the Donner cut, but it was kind of Donner says,

486
00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:16,920
nobody's going to put as many Christ references in as

487
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,759
I will in a Superman movie, and ex Tider says,

488
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:20,400
hold my beer.

489
00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that was. My wife was surprised. The first

490
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,759
time we watched she had never seen I mean it

491
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:28,839
was several years ago now, but she had never seen

492
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,680
the original Richard Donner Superman. And the first time we

493
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,119
sat down and watched it together is she like part

494
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,960
way through the movie, she goes, so, is Richard Donner

495
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:37,480
a Christian?

496
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: Like?

497
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: Is he like a pastor or something? Because there's a

498
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,279
lot of stuff in here, like, I mean, that's pretty

499
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:44,880
much straight out of the Bible. Is that like most

500
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,279
of the stuff jory Elle is saying, I mean, it

501
00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:47,880
really sounds like it's right out of the Bible. And

502
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,720
I said, it's just that's just how they chose to

503
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:50,960
do it.

504
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: But the father becomes the son. Yeah, yeah. And with

505
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,480
Man of Steel, he's thirty three years old. At the

506
00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:00,319
point that he's trying to decide whether to give up

507
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,279
and save humanity or not, he goes to the church

508
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,480
and right behind him as he's talking to the preacher

509
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,480
is Jesus praying in the garden of Cassemone. I was like, Okay,

510
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:13,160
that's that is that is amazing And I don't know

511
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,079
how many other people are seeing what I'm seeing right now.

512
00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:18,960
And then of course at what he right after, Jorell

513
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:22,160
says you can save her, you can save all of them,

514
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:24,440
and he busts out of the ship and does his

515
00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:28,200
nest plunge in the Jesus on the Cross. I was

516
00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:33,240
just like, wow, let me just make a comment on

517
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,680
the seat real quick. Yeah, we can compare uniforms.

518
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 4: But the original Superman movie, they wanted it to be darker,

519
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,240
but they had to make it louder because they were

520
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,000
losing them in the in the effects, like when they're

521
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,000
flying around at night. I liked how in Man of Steel,

522
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,079
you know, they always talked about Superman flying around in

523
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:53,920
blue underwear. In Man of Steel, well red underwear griefs right,

524
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,880
But Durell actually takes off his battle armor and he's

525
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,400
wearing that blue suit underneath, and so it actually is

526
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,480
an undergarment, yeah, which I think is really cool.

527
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: Turns out it is underwear.

528
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 4: I do like how it looked like a super small

529
00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:11,279
like chain metal, like it was protective. You know.

530
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: I don't mean to steer us off course on the uniform,

531
00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,359
but there's a great interview out there between Christopher Nolan,

532
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,119
you know, who is the producer on Man of Steel

533
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:25,039
and Dick Donner, and he said, he told Dick Donner,

534
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,599
this is interesting story. Number one. Christopher Nolan, of course

535
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,640
grew up in England. He got to go and see

536
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,720
this set for Superman wanting when he was like six

537
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:37,400
years old. And then when he he pitched his idea

538
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,519
to Warner Brothers, he said, I want to do for

539
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,640
Batman what Dick Donner did for Superman back in seventy

540
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,000
eight when he was pitching his Dark Knight. But they

541
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,039
note in that interview, you know everything's done on green

542
00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:54,599
screen now, but back when they were doing Superman, it

543
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,160
was blue screen, right right, Well, Superman's in a blue suit.

544
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,200
How do you make him not invisible? That was tough,

545
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:04,400
like they had to go through several different colors to

546
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,960
finally find one that was a blue that you could

547
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,200
see that looks right, but was not one that was

548
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,680
going to make Superman invisible.

549
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:13,559
Speaker 4: Superman one into You've got to go back to the

550
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:17,400
seventies in real These are all practical effects, so projection

551
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:20,920
and wires and stuff like that. You know that the

552
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,119
cape in Man of Steel is one cgi yep.

553
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: I expect better matters from my guests.

554
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:33,519
Speaker 3: Related to the Superman suit itself. I was just a

555
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:35,599
little disappointed man of steel that he didn't tear that

556
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,799
emblem off and turn it into a cell phone as

557
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:40,839
that he could throw at people. I was so looking

558
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,440
forward to that, but just it just never happened.

559
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 4: The cell as the cellfen ass. Okay, So let's get

560
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:48,880
into that, because a lot of people like to point

561
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,279
out that this even the family Guy had a little

562
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,440
thing about this, how it was just a minor inconvenience

563
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,559
to non didn't really do anything, and it wasn't based

564
00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:00,440
in any comic book as kind.

565
00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: Of a weird thing the selfane.

566
00:29:01,799 --> 00:29:03,599
Speaker 4: But that's not the biggest problem.

567
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:05,279
Speaker 1: From the Superman one and two movies.

568
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,079
Speaker 4: Can we get into the reversal and the superkiss.

569
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm ready to dive into this, Okay. So I love.

570
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:15,319
Speaker 4: Superman one and two. I am going to defend Superman

571
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:17,839
one and two. But it has problems. So let's talk

572
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,880
about number one, the ending to Superman one, which was

573
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,720
originally supposed to be ending for Superman two. The time reversal.

574
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,359
So they were filming this movie, there's film two movies

575
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,920
at the same time, when they realize, man, we're running

576
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,519
out of money. We're not sure we're going to have

577
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,640
enough money to finish Superman two, so let's finish Superman one.

578
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:36,920
But they had this ending that they liked, and so

579
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,119
they took the ending that was supposed to end at

580
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,160
Superman two and put it at the end of Superman one.

581
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:44,599
If he flies backwards around the Earth, Earth stop spinning

582
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,279
and actually starts paying backwards, which causes time to reverse.

583
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,119
People at the equator are spinning at approximately two thousand

584
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:55,440
miles per hour, and if the Earth suddenly stopped spinning,

585
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,720
those people would continue to.

586
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,119
Speaker 1: Move at two thousand miles an hour.

587
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 4: So the reverse seeing the Earth on its access would

588
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,640
kill tons of people and destroy the Earth. It's not

589
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,160
going to reverse time, but I'm okay with it.

590
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I was like, oh, man, wow,

591
00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:15,680
I can't figure out how he manages to go in

592
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,039
a circle around the Earth about one hundred times in

593
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:21,039
a few seconds, but he can't get from one side

594
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:23,960
of the United States to the other in ten minutes.

595
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,400
That he's got to give both of the missiles. I

596
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,599
saw one of those. How it should have ended things right.

597
00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 3: Right now you can't catch both of those. Oh wait, Now,

598
00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:40,079
there was something that I read a while ago, and

599
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,119
it actually made because this scene always bothered me too,

600
00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:45,759
like the whole time reversal stuff. And I will get

601
00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:47,880
into the time reversal piece of it two because I

602
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,079
think that's that's still a problematic way to try to

603
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:53,359
solve your problems. But this scene where he flies, and

604
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,119
I too have always kind of assumed, well, wow, he

605
00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:59,240
flew fast enough that it turned the Earth backwards and

606
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:01,759
it reversed the rotation of the Earth. And then I

607
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:04,240
read something and the person said, well, what if he's

608
00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:06,839
not actually exerting any kind of force on the Earth.

609
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,839
What if we're just seeing him fly so fast that

610
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,960
he's flying backward in time and we're seeing the Earth

611
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,000
turn backwards, because that's time turning backwards, not that he's

612
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,799
actually turning the Earth backwards. And I'm like, oh, well, okay,

613
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:19,920
I mean, I guess I'm I'm I'm feel a little

614
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,720
bit better about that. Then if we're just watching the

615
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:25,160
Earth rotate backwards because he's traveling back in time, as

616
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,839
opposed to he's actually forcing the Earth to turn backwards,

617
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,599
I'm like, all right, well, I clearly didn't get that

618
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,079
as a kid. Like as a kid, I was like, wow,

619
00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:36,319
he can turn the Earth backwards. That's pretty rare. But

620
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,319
I also know that you've got all kinds of paradoxes

621
00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:42,160
when you deal with time travel, and so I'm looking

622
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,880
at that. I'm like, okay now as an adult. As

623
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,240
a kid, I was just like, all right, he turned

624
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,960
back to time, we say Lois, everything all good? But

625
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,519
then I'm also thinking about it now as an adult,

626
00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:50,160
I'm like, oh, wait a minute. If he turned back time,

627
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:53,720
then did he catch the missiles? And where is he

628
00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:57,079
when the what if? Wait a minute now, okay, so

629
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,880
where is current Superman when he's turning back the time

630
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:01,799
to catch the missiles? And how could he still get

631
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:04,200
back to where Lois was? And was wait? How is

632
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:04,720
she okay?

633
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: Now?

634
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:07,559
Speaker 3: Because if he turned back time, the missiles would still

635
00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:09,640
have hit because he didn't go stop the missiles earlier.

636
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,359
As an adult, if somebody were to do that now

637
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,079
in a movie, I'd be like, all right, that's kind

638
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:14,279
of a cheap way to undo everything.

639
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: It's cheap, But I don't think it's as cheap as

640
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,240
the amnesia kiss.

641
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: Oh no, that yeah, that's.

642
00:32:18,319 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 4: Okay, let's talk about Okay, the super kiss is an

643
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:28,799
underrated superpower, all right, I am telling you if.

644
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:34,079
Speaker 1: They're so underrated. It's non existent men in this world.

645
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:35,400
Let's again, I know.

646
00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: Every man alive would like the power to fly and

647
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:39,559
have X ravation.

648
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,759
Speaker 1: I want to start answering that question that way. Now, Hey,

649
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:44,599
if you could have any superpower, what would it be?

650
00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:47,000
Amnesia kiss? That's what I'm thinking.

651
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 4: If you could have a relationship and then be able

652
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,559
to super kiss your way out of that relationship, that's

653
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:58,160
a pretty good superpower. Yeah, but I told I told

654
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,599
you this yesterday. At the end of the movie Science,

655
00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:03,920
when Lisa causes Gary's dad to forget that she was

656
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,079
over there because she's acting a little bit too hard.

657
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:07,799
What if you kiss the girl a little bit too hard?

658
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,960
What if he kiss Lois too hard? And now she

659
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:12,440
has no recollection at who Clark is. But that's not

660
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:14,200
even the biggest problem with the movies.

661
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,319
Speaker 1: Very delicate thing. Yeah, when they get into the Fortress

662
00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:20,480
of Solitude and all of a sudden there's eighteen different

663
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:23,480
new powers that we've never seen before, including stuff coming

664
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:25,759
out of your finger. What's the deal with the white beams?

665
00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:29,039
I mean? Yeah, and how does he how does he

666
00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:32,640
push the rays to the outside that turn you into mortal? Man?

667
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,680
How does that happen. I'm just gonna push real hard

668
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,720
on the glass here and everything will go out and

669
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:43,920
I'll be safe inside. Okay, so Superman two is easy

670
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,440
to pick on. Yes, it's it's very easy to pick on.

671
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,880
There's a lot of a lot of lester things that

672
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,000
you can just get. Well, that was really dumb.

673
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:53,759
Speaker 3: It's also the most fun, right it is.

674
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,599
Speaker 1: Well, but I'm gonna go ahead and pick on Superman one.

675
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,759
At this point. I enjoy the camp I enjoy the humor.

676
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:02,640
But there are some things in Superman one that I

677
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,880
was just like, what just happened? Just now? When Lex Luthor,

678
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:09,800
in a matter of about a minute and thirty seconds,

679
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,880
not only figures out what kryptonite can do, but where

680
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,320
to get it by going around on his four shelf bookshelf,

681
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:22,079
it's absurd. He's like, oh, well, you know he said

682
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:25,039
he's from another galaxy. Well, I think he said that.

683
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:28,880
I was feeling that meteorite, which means that a piece

684
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,440
of his planet had to hit Earth. No, No, that's.

685
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,199
Speaker 3: Not what happens. It's a really big universe.

686
00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: And I'm going to go ahead and scoot on over here,

687
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,079
pull out a book. Here's a guy with a meteorite.

688
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,000
Here's a picture. I'll tear it out, you can look

689
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:44,920
at it. We know where he is, and how do

690
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,400
we know that this is from Crypton? We don't, we don't.

691
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,199
I'm going to poke the bear and then oh my gosh.

692
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,280
And then somehow he makes it out there, picks up

693
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,840
his steals the because he steals it from a museum.

694
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,719
I know that news report's going on, steals it from

695
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,880
the museum, then manages to make it back in time

696
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,280
to set all the stuff up with the missiles, and

697
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,639
then manages to make it out to the area where

698
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,920
the land deals are going on. It's just all I'm

699
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,559
just like, oh, guys.

700
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:15,559
Speaker 3: Well, but I mean, he's the greatest criminal mind of

701
00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:16,639
our age.

702
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: Lex Luster. How about that?

703
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 4: He he says, where does he go?

704
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: Miss test Baker? Uh north r North?

705
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: So he wanders around vaguely until he finds the Fortress

706
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,039
of Solitude, and then when he gets there Superman spent

707
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,880
at least was it twelve years from time he was

708
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,639
eighteen till the time he was about thirty learning about

709
00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:39,599
Kryptonian history.

710
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,079
Speaker 1: It's a nice way to dodge Vietnam.

711
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 4: By the way, I'm just gonna hang out in the

712
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,639
Fortress the Ice Disco, but Lex Luthor shows up in

713
00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:52,440
about five minutes. He's got it all figured out, right, Yeah,

714
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,039
the crystals and all that stuff.

715
00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:57,079
Speaker 3: Again, greatest criminal mind of our age. Yeah, I think

716
00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:58,840
you guys are really struggling with something you don't need

717
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,440
to struggle with. He's the great criminal mind of our age.

718
00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:04,719
That's all you need to know. It's like the I

719
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,639
don't know if you've seen lately, I've seen people put

720
00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:10,119
up these gifts or this image on Twitter, the meme

721
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,400
for Batman being the Greatest Detective. Yeah, and it's from

722
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,559
the episode of when he was trying to figure out

723
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:18,320
the identity of the Joker and he's got a picture

724
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,639
of this like gangster that the face kind of resembles

725
00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:23,960
the Joker, and he's but he's in like a picture

726
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,920
with like twelve other people and Batman in the animated series,

727
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:28,960
he takes his red marker and he just draws a

728
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,400
red smiley face and he's like, that's the Joker. I'm like, really,

729
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,199
you know, the Great Dark Knight Detective. All it took

730
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,039
was a red sharpie for you to figure out who

731
00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:38,639
the Joker was.

732
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,519
Speaker 4: But you know, what that. The superkiss is not the

733
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,039
biggest problem. The turning the time back is not the

734
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:48,360
biggest problem. Wandering around and finding the fortress salty is

735
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,320
not the biggest problem. The biggest problem for me is

736
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,159
when Clark trips over the bare head and falls into

737
00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:01,119
the fire and reveals himself to be Superman. First of all,

738
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,320
Superman would kick that bear through the wall. I mean,

739
00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:09,360
the fact that he would trip is ludicrous. And then

740
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,840
I mean he fights fights, fights Lois, and then he

741
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,239
reaches in and grabs the glasses real quick, and you know,

742
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,880
as soon as she confronts him, well you are Superman.

743
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: He's just like, yeah, yeah, tell him sorry about almost

744
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:23,039
letting you drowned earlier. I'll just go ahead and pass

745
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:25,000
up now now that your life's not in danger at all.

746
00:37:25,199 --> 00:37:29,199
Speaker 4: The reveal is ludicrous, but the donor reveal was just

747
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,840
as bad. She pulls a gun on him. I'm like,

748
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,440
I feel bad for this guy. She fires at him,

749
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,320
which he then takes his glasses off.

750
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,599
Speaker 1: Hey I'm Superman, and he's like, that was a really

751
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,960
dangerous and risky game for you to play. She's like,

752
00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:46,800
with blanks, have blanks, right, which then then you go Okay,

753
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,000
so Superman doesn't feel bullets at all when he gets shot.

754
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:53,199
There's no feeling whatsoever. There's got to be at least

755
00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:53,599
a tickle.

756
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:56,599
Speaker 4: See if that was you, though, and somebody pulled a

757
00:37:56,639 --> 00:37:58,760
gun on you, and I fired an actual gun you're

758
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,440
trying to seduce, you'd have to change your shorts. The

759
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,239
seduction would be over at that point. The reveal is

760
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,159
my biggest problem with these two movies.

761
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,599
Speaker 1: Okay, we're moving into judgment stage here, so let's we've

762
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:16,960
talked about the problems with Superman one and Superman two,

763
00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:20,039
let's talk about problems with Man of Steel. Okay, Jason,

764
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,559
you have the floor. Okay. My biggest problem is when

765
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:24,760
he executes.

766
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,199
Speaker 4: Zod, the killing of Zoon, and I know that they

767
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,000
try to make the case compelling that he's going to

768
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,000
X ray vision these innocent civilians, and that's kind of

769
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:35,280
Clark's last chance.

770
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what he has to do. But for me,

771
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:38,320
when I.

772
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 4: Saw this movie in theaters, I thought, man, I just

773
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:43,199
I don't know if I want Superman killing I don't

774
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:43,719
know what you think.

775
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: Well, he killed Sod and Supermo as well, and just

776
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,119
to just to draw the distinction here, at least he

777
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:55,760
struggled with the decision a little bit in Man of Steel,

778
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,920
and when it happened, he cried out in agony, like,

779
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,880
oh no, I've just killed the last Trypton Kryptonian member

780
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,079
of our race Krypton.

781
00:39:04,199 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 4: I like how you say it, like Krypton.

782
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:10,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't. He didn't smile and wink at him

783
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:11,719
before I threw him into the chasm.

784
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean it was in in Superman too, as he's

785
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:18,559
coming up and he's acting like he doesn't have his powers,

786
00:39:18,599 --> 00:39:22,119
and he kneels down. He has got the biggest frown

787
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,880
I've ever seen in my life, like I've got to

788
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,320
hide what's about to happen because I'm just gonna nails out,

789
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,639
so I'm gonna look super super sad. And then he

790
00:39:31,679 --> 00:39:36,480
doesn't just kill him. He crushes his fan and then

791
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,039
throws him, screaming in pain, down a bottomless pit. It's

792
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,760
of the two deaths, I think the quick next step

793
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:45,719
is what I would choose.

794
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 3: So that was, you know, when Man of Steel came out.

795
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,280
I'm the person in my circle of friends that whenever

796
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,480
a Star Wars movie comes out, whenever a Superman movie

797
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,199
comes out, people always like go to me first, like,

798
00:39:54,199 --> 00:39:55,800
what'd you think? Right, well, we need to know what

799
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,360
you thought, because if you loved it, then that probably

800
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:58,920
means it's pretty good and you know all this stuff.

801
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,480
And so I was like the first person people get

802
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,639
into debates with and they were like, oh, man, he

803
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,159
just he let the whole city get trashed and Superman

804
00:40:06,199 --> 00:40:08,599
would never do that, and you know and all that stuff.

805
00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:10,360
He's like, oh, super he snapped his neck. He'd never

806
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:12,360
you know, Superman would never do that. I'm like, uh,

807
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,760
have you read a Superman story? Like there's times all

808
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,840
the time where somebody dies or or something happens like that,

809
00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:21,599
And the exact same thing. When that came up and

810
00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:23,840
people are like, well, he Superman would never snap his

811
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,079
neck like that, I said, well, have you watched Superman two,

812
00:40:27,199 --> 00:40:30,559
because not only does he, I mean these people are powerless,

813
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:34,599
Like he has reversed this process, so these are it's

814
00:40:34,639 --> 00:40:37,239
not like he's fighting a super villain in Superman two.

815
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:43,159
He's now fighting disco Zod and Ursa and Non and

816
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:45,559
he's just letting them die. And I'm like that to

817
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:46,960
me now that I think about that as an adult.

818
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,639
As a kid, I was like, yeah, you go Superman,

819
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,320
crush his hand, you do all this stuff, you know,

820
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,119
and wrong again Zod. And as a kid, I was like,

821
00:40:55,159 --> 00:40:57,519
this is awesome. I love this. He's finally getting back

822
00:40:57,519 --> 00:40:59,360
of these people. And I look at that now and

823
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,480
I go, that's that's really sadistic, Like he could have

824
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,039
if the guy can go catch a missile, you know,

825
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:07,079
if he can fly halfway across the United States and

826
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:09,079
catch a missile and then possibly fly back and get

827
00:41:09,079 --> 00:41:11,199
the second one and be like, hey, I got both

828
00:41:11,199 --> 00:41:15,199
of them, then I have a feeling that super Superman

829
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,199
could probably zip the what was it fifteen feet to

830
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,000
go like, you know, catch Non before he falls into

831
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,400
the chasm. He could then zip the fifteen feet to

832
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,280
go catch Ursa. He could even let Lois you know,

833
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,199
do her thing and punch Ursa. Right, I'm fine with that,

834
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,199
But then he could go catch her so she doesn't

835
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,480
die and he doesn't have to throw Zod into the

836
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,280
thing and kill him. These are he's killing humans. So

837
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,440
that to me now as an adult and kind of

838
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,079
comparing those situations, that's way more problematic for me when

839
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:46,039
I actually think about how those villains were done way

840
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:48,960
with in that movie and knowing the history of the comics.

841
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,360
Actually killing Zod in the comics was something that defined

842
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:55,679
Superman for many, many, many years. There were moments in

843
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,239
the Superman comics for the next after two to three decades,

844
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,599
after the mid eighties, where Superman would aways bring that up.

845
00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:02,760
He's like, well, the reason I don't kill is because

846
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,840
I did kill Zod. I executed Zod and his generals,

847
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,039
and it tore me up and it made me value

848
00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:10,760
life once I realized what I had done, and there's

849
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,920
always got to be a better way. So that, to

850
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,039
me was that kind of moment is what makes him,

851
00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:18,280
you know, it's it's what's building that character. It's what

852
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,400
makes him the Superman that he will later become. And

853
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,519
when that happened in Man of Steel, I didn't have

854
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:25,440
a problem with it because I looked at that as

855
00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:28,880
you've got Superman who's been I mean, he's been raised

856
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,920
on Earth. He's a civilian, he's been raised on Earth,

857
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,639
and he's fighting someone that has the exact same power

858
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:36,679
as he does. With military training, you know probably you know,

859
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,800
self defense, military type training, and so he's not going

860
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,480
to have the same tactical knowledge, the same kind of

861
00:42:42,559 --> 00:42:45,360
fighting skill. You know that and he's he's doing what

862
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,440
he can. Like this is still a very young super

863
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,360
he's only been Superman for what a day, maybe a

864
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,800
couple of days, And so I'm looking at that and

865
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,159
I'm going, well, putting myself in that shoes, Well, what

866
00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:57,079
would I do in that situation? If I saw a

867
00:42:57,079 --> 00:43:00,719
family about to get killed? This guy who is base said,

868
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,679
you've wiped out all the rest of my people. I

869
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,079
have nothing left. I will kill every person on this

870
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:08,840
earth to get back at you. So he said, I'm

871
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,760
gonna murder everyone. I'm just letting you know. I'm gonna

872
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,360
murder everyone. And I look at that, and I go,

873
00:43:13,519 --> 00:43:16,039
put in that situation, I mean, I would never kill

874
00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:20,400
anyone me personally, and like, no, I would never kill anyone.

875
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,079
But if you put me in that situation, would I

876
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:25,679
struggle with it? And if push came to shove, would

877
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,679
I snap the guy's neck to save a group of

878
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,639
other people, a family and possibly the rest of the earth. Yeah? Probably? Yeah,

879
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,800
So that scene it doesn't bother me. And what bothers

880
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,440
me more, and this is not necessarily the scope of

881
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,400
our discussion, but what bothers me more is that we

882
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,719
didn't get a man of Steel two to be able

883
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,440
to explore that further. But no, that scene doesn't bother

884
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,199
me because I compare that now with Superman two and

885
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,440
I think, well, actually that seems more callous and a

886
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,480
little bit more sociopathic than you know, the events of

887
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:56,079
Man of Steel.

888
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,599
Speaker 4: You know, we were talking about this.

889
00:43:58,599 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 1: This has been a few weeks ago.

890
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:03,639
Speaker 4: It had never even occurred to me that Superman killed

891
00:44:03,679 --> 00:44:07,320
all three of those villains in Superman two, because I'm

892
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:14,719
still looking at it through a child's eyes. Apparently there's

893
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,280
rumors of some cut out there that shows that these

894
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,320
criminals were arrested and taken to jail.

895
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:23,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that didn't you you did some research

896
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:25,679
on that, like there was I saw it that where

897
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:30,000
they he arrested Lex Luthor. Right, the Arctic Police come

898
00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:33,760
in and arrest Lex Luthor, the Arctic Arctic Police who

899
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,800
happened to also get access to Fortress so Solitude. I

900
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,199
think Lewis called nine one one.

901
00:44:41,159 --> 00:44:43,039
Speaker 3: In the in the there's a superphone they have. They

902
00:44:43,079 --> 00:44:46,519
have a little it's it's under a glass jar. It's

903
00:44:46,519 --> 00:44:48,719
like what used to have you just you pick up

904
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,639
the glass jar. It's like a it's like a you know,

905
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:51,880
Kryptonian crystal jar.

906
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 4: The that's one of the things that he did in

907
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,159
the molecule chambers were called nine to one.

908
00:44:56,119 --> 00:45:01,039
Speaker 1: One, right, But apparently the rumor that the through Kryptonian

909
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,719
villains get arrested and put in human jail is just that,

910
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:06,559
it's just a rumor.

911
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, but I will say this when we talked

912
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,320
about this, so and I'm moving in towards my final

913
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,119
judgment here, but after rewatching these Man of Steel is

914
00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:20,199
better than I remember it being initially, Superman two is

915
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,880
worse than I remember it being originally. But at the time,

916
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,760
Superman two did a great job of manipulating my feelings

917
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,239
as a little boy. Yeah, and I was telling indeed

918
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,760
that when he goes into the molecule chamber and there's

919
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,760
red on the outside rather than the inside, I didn't

920
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,199
catch that when I saw it in the theater.

921
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: And so when he starts crushing his hand, I'm like, wait,

922
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:45,079
what what? And then I'm like yes, So that scene

923
00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:45,880
charged me up.

924
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 4: When los Lane punches out Versa that I got fired

925
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:50,360
up about that.

926
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,519
Speaker 1: I was so excited. We didn't touch on this, but

927
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:56,000
this is a major factor in what's going on in

928
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,239
those scenes. And how you feel emotionally at the time

929
00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:03,079
of the day of Zod and his hinchment with Superman.

930
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:09,639
You've got John Williams score, which I mean, arguably the

931
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:14,119
best superhero score in all of history, right, And I

932
00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:16,159
will tell you that, you know, I heard about Dick

933
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,440
Donner coming in and hearing this for the first time,

934
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,440
and he said something that made that that gave me

935
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:25,400
vindication because I will sing Superman to my kids whenever

936
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,880
we're putting it on in the car and I go Superman,

937
00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:32,360
I mean, I love it. And but apparently that was

938
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,360
exactly Dick Donner's reaction when he heard William's theme for

939
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,719
Superman was you are saying it with the music and

940
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,320
it's fantastic. When he crushes his hand, you get that

941
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:48,000
score coming in with d and you're like, yes, it's

942
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,559
a victory, We've got the victory theme. But when he's

943
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:55,880
having to decide to kill Zod, it's agonizing. You've got

944
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:02,960
You've got Zimmer's intense, emotional, non automatic music just pulling

945
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:07,239
at you, and it's yeah, it totally changes your perspective

946
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,639
to where you think, oh gosh, this is horrible, this

947
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,840
is horrible. Superman's killing somebody, Well, that's what they want

948
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,639
you to think, because it is horrible. It's just that

949
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,199
in Superman they made it funny and.

950
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,199
Speaker 4: Justified and John I thought for a second the d

951
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,199
was going to sing can you read my line?

952
00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely the most awkward moment.

953
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:36,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, horrible that Margaret did.

954
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. In terms of the music, I mean that since

955
00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:40,719
since we're talking music, I have a really hard time

956
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,559
with this one. As I was, as I was doing

957
00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:44,440
my back and forth of all right, well, okay, you

958
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,639
get John Williams on Zimmer, let's go back and forth

959
00:47:46,679 --> 00:47:49,440
with it. And then who did they replace John Williams

960
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,599
with for to ken Thorn. Yeah, And you know, I

961
00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:57,039
and I spent the last few days I had my

962
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,400
Spotify playlist up and I just put I put all

963
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,239
the soundtracks together and I was like, I'm just gonna

964
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:03,719
listen to this, back and forth, back and forth, back

965
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:08,719
and forth. And you know what, the John Williams you

966
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,519
can't argue with that. It's it's iconic, it is it

967
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:15,159
is Superman. It's I mean, that's been for ever since

968
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,920
nineteen seventy eight Hans Zimmer's score. Nobody's going to do that.

969
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,719
When my son was really really little still in his

970
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,679
car seat, I'd put on like the planet Krypton theme

971
00:48:23,039 --> 00:48:25,440
from Superman, and when it would when it would get

972
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,920
to the point where it just crescendoed, he'd like, I'm

973
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,320
not eve going to do it right, but he'd like

974
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,280
throw both arms up in the air back in his

975
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,000
car seat, and I was like, okay, I've raised you well,

976
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,559
Like I really could just stop now because you know

977
00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:39,679
this has been successful. But you know you've got that,

978
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,400
You've got the John Williams, you know, had that very

979
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,760
kind of synthesizer creepy, you know, the almost like the

980
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,159
little the Kryptonian zod theme that got continued on through

981
00:48:51,159 --> 00:48:55,559
Superman to I will say though that overall as an

982
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,119
entire movie, As an entire film, I think that the

983
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,639
Hans Zimmer score did a little bit better job for

984
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:08,239
me of filling in the filling in the atmosphere of

985
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,280
that movie. Like if I look at the if I

986
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,480
look at the original Superman and Superman to score, I

987
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:16,800
can probably in my mind I can probably pick out,

988
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,239
oh yeah, there's like three pieces of music that I

989
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,039
can remember, right, And that's if I ignore the can

990
00:49:22,079 --> 00:49:24,519
you read my mind part, which I'm constantly trying to

991
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:26,519
do I wish, I wish there was some kind of

992
00:49:26,519 --> 00:49:27,960
a super kiss that could get that one out of

993
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,119
my mind. But then I think about the Hans Zimmer

994
00:49:32,199 --> 00:49:34,599
score and I'm like, Okay, is there anything in there

995
00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:38,239
that's as memorable as the Planet Crypton theme as the

996
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,280
John Williams Superman theme. No, but in the movie as

997
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,719
a whole overall, that that fills that movie so much

998
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,679
better than the John Williams score does.

999
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:53,679
Speaker 1: They did some neat things with Hans Zimmer's score musically,

1000
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,639
like he Superman, being as an American as he is,

1001
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,119
he wanted to take something that was a uniquely American instrument,

1002
00:50:01,159 --> 00:50:04,480
which is the pedal steel guitar, which you typically hear

1003
00:50:04,599 --> 00:50:07,559
in like bluegrass and country music. But he changed it

1004
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:09,559
in such a way that it becomes the string section.

1005
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,880
So you've got a really unique sound of those strings

1006
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,480
that you can recognize from from the Man of Steel score.

1007
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:23,039
And then on those intense scenes, it's all drums, and

1008
00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:26,639
for that one we get like nine different.

1009
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 4: Drums, like twelve of the world's greatest drummers, yeah, including

1010
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:33,760
Sheila e and Jason Bonham.

1011
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,159
Speaker 1: And so he puts them in a. He puts them

1012
00:50:36,199 --> 00:50:38,239
in a circle, puts the microphone in the middle of

1013
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,000
the circle, and to give the effect of being surrounded

1014
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,400
by these intense primal drums.

1015
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:55,639
Speaker 4: All right, so final judgment, I'm with Superman one and

1016
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:57,559
two over Man of Steel.

1017
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. I got to say that after watching these movies again,

1018
00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:06,880
I had the same reaction you did. I liked Man

1019
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,880
of Steel better than I did at the beginning, and

1020
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,880
I loved it at the beginning. I gotta say Man

1021
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,199
of Steel is a better movie. It's plot structure is better,

1022
00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:21,400
the character development is better. The setting for Smallville, the

1023
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:28,119
setting for Krypton, the struggle that Clark has are all better.

1024
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,320
And so as much as it pains me as much

1025
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,159
of a fan of the original movies as I am

1026
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,840
and was, Man of Steel is a better movie. Now,

1027
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:42,199
I'll say this, Superman will always be. Christopher Reeve to me,

1028
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,559
if you say Superman, that's the first thing that I

1029
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:47,039
want to think of. And he brought something to the

1030
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:49,960
character that Henry Cavill did, and Henry Cavill did a

1031
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,599
great job, and especially the moment that he's standing watching

1032
00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:57,760
his father about to die, that is an emotionally moving

1033
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,599
moment for me and a fantastic performance had the same

1034
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:05,880
feeling I felt whenever Superman Christopher Reeve finds Lowess dead

1035
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:11,000
and cries out. Both of those were emotionally impactful performances.

1036
00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:15,119
But whereas Christopher Reeve will always be Superman in my mind,

1037
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:18,280
I've got to say Man of Steel some better movie, John.

1038
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:28,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I all right, I truth. I almost wanted to

1039
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:35,280
pull in Eric Cartman that I hate you guys so much. Jason,

1040
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:36,960
you kind of you reference or one of you guys

1041
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,039
referenced early on that in in my episodes, I did

1042
00:52:40,039 --> 00:52:42,639
where I talked about like the history of Superman, and

1043
00:52:42,639 --> 00:52:44,599
and I did my ranking of it. I think I

1044
00:52:44,599 --> 00:52:47,320
said that Superman one was number one for me, Man

1045
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,480
of Steel was number two, and Superman two was number three.

1046
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,280
And so, having rewatched these movies, having talked it out

1047
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,119
with you guys here, having taken copious notes, you know,

1048
00:52:57,159 --> 00:52:59,000
and scared my family because they thought I was turning

1049
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,239
into a serial killer, like all these composition notebooks full

1050
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,199
of tiny handwriting, I think I've come out the other

1051
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,039
side of this with James. I think I'm very much

1052
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:10,440
on the same page you are. That nothing will ever

1053
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:14,840
replace Superman one and two. For me, I mean far

1054
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,280
and above. Christopher Reeve will always I always look at

1055
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,320
him and think Superman. Nothing can ever replace the times

1056
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,760
that I had, you know, watching these movies with my dad,

1057
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,440
with my family, and just the memories that are attached

1058
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,239
with those. I love Superman one, I love Superman two.

1059
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,360
But that being said some of the things that we've

1060
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,239
said here too, I think that Man of Steel, and

1061
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,000
I know that this is a this is an unpopular

1062
00:53:37,039 --> 00:53:38,840
opinion because a lot of people don't like Man of Steel.

1063
00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:40,960
Man of Steel has always been my favorite of the

1064
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,400
more recent DC movies, even including I think the Batman movies,

1065
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,280
the Christopher Nolan Batman movies. I Man of Steel is

1066
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,400
my favorite. I guess you wouldn't even call those DCEU

1067
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,679
because that was we weren't there yet. But it's my

1068
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,000
favorite DC movie of the last, you know, probably a

1069
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,639
couple of decades. And I think for some of the

1070
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,000
very similar reasons that it's just I get more backstory,

1071
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:04,679
I get more emotional involvement in the character of Clark

1072
00:54:04,679 --> 00:54:07,440
and the character of Superman, the character of Lois, even

1073
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,239
the character of Zod. I have more of a emotional

1074
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,559
visceral reaction to what's going on in this movie. I

1075
00:54:14,639 --> 00:54:17,760
care more about these characters. Not that I didn't care

1076
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,280
about them when I was a kid watching the other ones,

1077
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,320
but it was very much. Sometimes it's the difference between

1078
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:27,039
Sometimes people that are like Marvel fans of DC fans

1079
00:54:27,039 --> 00:54:29,920
will make this distinction. Marvel will say, well, our stuff

1080
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,360
is grounded in reality. We have our characters in Boston

1081
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,480
and New York and San Diego, whereas you guys made

1082
00:54:36,519 --> 00:54:39,119
up towns like Gotham and Metropolis, and we're you know,

1083
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:41,519
our characters, we have a scientific reason why they have

1084
00:54:41,639 --> 00:54:45,039
powers and and you know, so there's a difference between

1085
00:54:45,039 --> 00:54:48,880
like your grounded explanation for superheroes and more of like

1086
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,719
your godlike legends. And I think that Superman and Superman

1087
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:57,199
two fall into that very comic book centric, godlike legend

1088
00:54:57,639 --> 00:55:00,119
of Superman. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and

1089
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:03,280
I absolutely love that about those movies. But I think

1090
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,599
for someone who wants to dig into the story and

1091
00:55:06,679 --> 00:55:09,480
understand why these characters are doing what they're doing, why

1092
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,360
does he become the Superman that we all know and love,

1093
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,719
Why does he fall in love with Lois? Who are

1094
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,559
the parents that raised him to think this way and

1095
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:21,320
to be this way. Who's the villain that just I

1096
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:25,159
mean almost perfectly matches with what he's struggling with at

1097
00:55:25,199 --> 00:55:27,400
the time in this movie and how he has to

1098
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,920
I mean, like we said, he is agonized when he

1099
00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:32,639
kills Zod at the end, because all he's ever wanted

1100
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,920
is to belong. All he's ever wanted is to fit in.

1101
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,519
He's finally found his people, and he has had to

1102
00:55:38,599 --> 00:55:41,000
kill the last of his other than himself, he's had

1103
00:55:41,039 --> 00:55:43,400
to kill the last of his people, so he's had

1104
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,679
to completely destroy the one thing that he has wanted

1105
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,440
his entire life is just to fit in. And so

1106
00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:51,320
I think for those reasons, I kind of I have

1107
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,599
to go Man of Steel in this case, you know.

1108
00:55:53,679 --> 00:55:56,480
But it's it's really a struggle to say that because

1109
00:55:56,599 --> 00:55:59,159
it just I love the other Superman movies so much,

1110
00:55:59,639 --> 00:56:01,119
and you know, the next time I watch him, it

1111
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:03,039
might be like I might watch Superman again and be like,

1112
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:06,360
oh no, you know what original Superman is number one again?

1113
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,960
You know, to me, I get more emotional involvement in

1114
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,199
Man of Steel. We get to see him develop as

1115
00:56:14,199 --> 00:56:16,039
a kid, we get to see him develop as a hero.

1116
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,480
That's one of the things. Even as a kid. One

1117
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,679
of the things that I didn't I understood the reason

1118
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,079
for it. You know, in trying to fit in like

1119
00:56:24,119 --> 00:56:26,840
the Biblical imagery, that you would have a stretch of

1120
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,639
time where well, we don't know what happened to Clark

1121
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,920
in this stretch of time, you know, from eighteen to thirty.

1122
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,559
We don't know, Like he just disappeared for an amount

1123
00:56:34,639 --> 00:56:36,920
of time and then he came back and started his

1124
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:39,400
for lack of a better term, started his ministry of

1125
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,119
being Superman. And you know, that's fine, and that's fine

1126
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,039
for that movie, but I'll take another line for the Bible.

1127
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,440
That was fine when I was a child, and now

1128
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,199
that I'm older, I put away a childish things and

1129
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,199
I want more explanation. I want more of that story.

1130
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,880
I want to know my characters and I want to

1131
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,320
make that connection with them. I want to see a

1132
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,719
Lois that my Superman would fall in love with, that

1133
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:04,480
he would look at her and say, this is the

1134
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:07,599
humanity that I'm here to say, I will. I wanted

1135
00:57:07,639 --> 00:57:10,239
to before we ended, I did want to pull these

1136
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,880
out that I love. This is This is the part

1137
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,519
I love about both of these movies is just the

1138
00:57:16,679 --> 00:57:19,239
kind of ideal that this is trying to build up.

1139
00:57:19,239 --> 00:57:22,079
And I love both of these speeches from Joel, and

1140
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:24,519
so I didn't want to, you know, skip being able

1141
00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:27,119
to read these or take a look at these. And

1142
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,920
in his speech in the Fortress of Solitude, and he says,

1143
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,119
you know, live as one of them, kell El, discover

1144
00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:34,800
where your strength and your power are needed. Always hold

1145
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,159
in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They

1146
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:39,280
can be a great people, Kelll if they wish to be.

1147
00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:41,800
They only lack the light to show the way. For

1148
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,559
this reason, above all their capacity for good, I have

1149
00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:47,519
sent them you, my only son. And then I also

1150
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:50,400
wrote down the one from Man of Steel, and I

1151
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,000
just I love both of these. You know, Jorel says,

1152
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,519
you will give the people of Earth an ideal to

1153
00:57:54,559 --> 00:57:57,519
strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble,

1154
00:57:57,639 --> 00:57:59,760
they will fall, but in time they will join you

1155
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,440
in the sun cal In time you will help them

1156
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,039
accomplish wonders. And I think that's part of where I

1157
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:10,760
hit that difference is I love the speech by Marlon

1158
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,599
Brando Jorel, But I will say I teared up in

1159
00:58:13,639 --> 00:58:16,719
the theater when I listen to Russell Crowe deliver that speech.

1160
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,000
They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall,

1161
00:58:19,039 --> 00:58:20,719
but in time they will join you in the sun.

1162
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,360
And it actually comes from a Superman comic where it's

1163
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,960
a story in which Superman his life is coming to

1164
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,639
an end. He's actually going to send himself into the

1165
00:58:29,639 --> 00:58:31,800
sun and that's going to be his final resting place.

1166
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,119
And so Jorel's speech and that's actually where a Man

1167
00:58:34,159 --> 00:58:36,320
of Steel took it from his speech, and that one

1168
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,079
is your work is done. You have shown them the

1169
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:41,199
face of the man of tomorrow. You have given them

1170
00:58:41,199 --> 00:58:44,760
an ideal to aspire to, embodied their highest aspirations. They

1171
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,360
will race and stumble and fall and crawl and curse,

1172
00:58:48,719 --> 00:58:50,880
and finally they will join you in the sun. Call el.

1173
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,639
In time you will no longer be alone. And I

1174
00:58:53,679 --> 00:58:56,840
think that that like bringing that piece into Man of Steel,

1175
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,760
and just the way that speech is delivered and what

1176
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,920
that speech says, like it's it makes me even now,

1177
00:59:03,079 --> 00:59:06,320
like makes me emotional to think about that. You know,

1178
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,800
the father speaking that to his son, and that's that

1179
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,320
emotional piece. I get that emotional piece every time I

1180
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,599
watch Man of Steel. I love Superman one and two

1181
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,519
but I don't get the emotional connection to those. So

1182
00:59:18,559 --> 00:59:20,679
I think for that reason and just because of some

1183
00:59:20,719 --> 00:59:22,599
of the other things we've said about how I think

1184
00:59:22,599 --> 00:59:25,960
there's just more there's more meat to Man of Steel.

1185
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:27,360
I got to go Man of Steel.

1186
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:33,199
Speaker 1: The speech by Russell Crowe. They used it for the trailer,

1187
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,639
and I can remember really distinctly when the trailers came

1188
00:59:36,679 --> 00:59:38,880
out for Man of Steel before the movie came out,

1189
00:59:39,239 --> 00:59:43,199
because the visual that you had and both trailers were

1190
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:46,519
the same, but in one you had that speech from

1191
00:59:46,639 --> 00:59:50,159
Jirell and then the other one you have an admonishing

1192
00:59:50,239 --> 00:59:52,960
speech from Jonathan Kent.

1193
00:59:53,519 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 3: You have to decide what kind of man you want

1194
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:56,039
to grow up to be.

1195
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:03,079
Speaker 2: Whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's going

1196
01:00:03,119 --> 01:00:04,159
to change the world.

1197
01:00:04,639 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: I can remember seeing those commercials and it is the

1198
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:12,199
scene from the movie where they're looking at nine year

1199
01:00:12,239 --> 01:00:16,159
old Clark Kent and he's playing around in the yard

1200
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,920
and he's got a cape on and he you know,

1201
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:23,039
you see him stand up tall, put his chest out,

1202
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,159
put his hands on his hips in the iconic Superman pose.

1203
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,639
And I remember watching the first time, and I think

1204
01:00:31,639 --> 01:00:33,880
my wife was next to me, and I said, even

1205
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:37,920
Superman wanted to be Superman when he was a boy,

1206
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:40,559
and that's the way it is. I think for all

1207
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,360
all young men, it's that that ideal to strive for.

1208
01:00:45,039 --> 01:00:51,000
We are always striving to be Superman. Okay, well I

1209
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:58,079
think that does it for this episode or all likelihood episodes. John,

1210
01:00:58,199 --> 01:01:01,320
I really appreciate you coming out and being with us

1211
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:05,039
for all of these episodes. It's been great fun to

1212
01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:07,760
have you and so inspiring to hear your input on

1213
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,639
these great, great stuff. Thank you so much for coming.

1214
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you guys for having me out. I

1215
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:14,920
can't wait to I mean, obviously when this comes up

1216
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:16,679
in my feed, Like I said, I jumped to you

1217
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:20,000
guys first, I like block all of the podcasts. Got

1218
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,960
to find out what they're going to argue about this time.

1219
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,639
So I'll be looking forward to this one too. Oh.

1220
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 4: Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

1221
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to all our listeners, please, if you haven't already,

1222
01:01:29,159 --> 01:01:32,519
go check out thirty something movie podcast. You can find

1223
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:37,159
them on Twitter at thirty Podcasts on Twitter. And is

1224
01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:38,199
it the same on Facebook?

1225
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 3: John, Yeah, it's pretty much. If you do three zero

1226
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,199
and podcast, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, you know there's probably something

1227
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:46,559
that's come out in the next three days that I'll

1228
01:01:46,599 --> 01:01:48,960
sign up for. But yeah, thirty podcasts wherever.

1229
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,719
Speaker 1: Thank you all again. We're overwhelmed by the support that

1230
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,840
we've been getting for our podcast. We really love that

1231
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,280
you love what we're doing and we're just going to

1232
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,159
keep on going as long as you're listening.

1233
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 4: All right, we'd love to have five star review, five

1234
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,880
star review for thirty seven podcast. We'll give you a

1235
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:05,880
big old fat superciss.

1236
01:02:06,239 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: We won't even give you amnesia.

1237
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 3: And then here and you know what, and once we

1238
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,320
give you that supercass, you'll forget that you left a

1239
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:16,079
five star review, so then I can go leave another one.

1240
01:02:20,079 --> 01:02:22,239
Speaker 1: All music images and movie clips are used for the

1241
01:02:22,239 --> 01:02:25,559
purposes of commentary and education in conjunction with the fair

1242
01:02:25,639 --> 01:02:28,519
Use agreement under the US copyright law. Come here and

1243
01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:29,199
kiss your mom.