1 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon 3 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:12,480 to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,719 want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,239 my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,640 go to dpeteclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,719 smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:34,399 your support. So over the weekend Memorial Day weekend been 10 00:00:34,439 --> 00:00:40,280 a news occurred with the ongoing scandal of the police 11 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:47,039 chief's payoff by the Charlotte City Council. He announced he's 12 00:00:47,079 --> 00:00:50,880 retiring at the end of the year and the settlement 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,799 quote unquote, the settlement was really more of a severance package, 14 00:00:56,039 --> 00:01:03,320 you see, and he allowed the settlement to become public 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,040 and the city manager did the same. Now I think 16 00:01:06,079 --> 00:01:10,599 they actually lined up this interview on Thursday with Michael 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:16,480 Graff and it published at the Charlotte Optimist and The Assembly. 18 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,159 The ASSEMBLYNC dot com published in both places. It is 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,879 a very lengthy article. It took me about half an 20 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:29,040 hour to read it, but I'm kind of a slow 21 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:37,120 reader and there's one glaring omission from the report, and 22 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:38,879 I don't know if it was intentional or not. I'm 23 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:44,079 not trying to to besmirch or to drag Michael Graff. 24 00:01:44,159 --> 00:01:46,959 I don't know who he is. I thought the piece 25 00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:49,439 was well written and did have a lot of the 26 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,640 information in it, and I appreciate that. But there was, 27 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,760 in my view, there was a pretty big omission, which 28 00:01:56,799 --> 00:02:02,120 is the ethics complaint, the ethics complaint that was filed 29 00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:07,040 against now former Charlotte City Councilman Tark Bookari. That ethics 30 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,120 complaint was filed by the local chapter president of the NAACP, 31 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:20,319 Corn Mac, and the reporting was from WSOCTV that she 32 00:02:20,479 --> 00:02:27,840 had coordinated with two of police Chief Johnny Jennings's top people, 33 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,400 his right hand in his left hand, I call him 34 00:02:30,479 --> 00:02:35,479 the Chief's hands, and they had worked with Mac on 35 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:40,919 the language on what she should submit for the ethics 36 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,919 complaint against Bookari. Because Bakari had had this battle with 37 00:02:47,039 --> 00:02:53,400 the chief over the outer carrier ballistic vests for rank 38 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,400 and file cops. That wasn't a dressed anywhere in here. 39 00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:03,080 Did he coordinate with her when she did a Freedom 40 00:03:03,159 --> 00:03:06,199 of Information Act request with the city to get text 41 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:14,240 messages that were between tarc Bookari and Chief Jennings. How 42 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,560 did she know the keywords to search for under the 43 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:22,000 Foyer request? How did she get that? I think the 44 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,879 reporting has been that Jennings coordinated with her directly on 45 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,560 that that was not covered. The ethics complaint was not covered. 46 00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:37,599 And that's important because the ethics complaint was a precursor 47 00:03:37,639 --> 00:03:42,080 to the settlement, and the ethics complaint was dismissed by 48 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:45,599 this city attorney, Anthony Fox, through the interim city attorney, 49 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:48,439 not the former mayor Anthony Fox, but the interim city attorney, 50 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:54,120 Anthony Fox, and he dismissed the complaint, but then did 51 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:59,560 the settlement. And they're now saying, well, see what people 52 00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:03,879 didn't know. Oh, and there's all this inaccurate information out there, 53 00:04:03,879 --> 00:04:09,080 But this is basically a severance deal. That's what this is. Well, yeah, 54 00:04:09,199 --> 00:04:14,199 you know what would have probably advanced this narrative a 55 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,720 lot more quickly. It would have been just to say, hey, 56 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,680 Chief Jennings is retiring and we're paying him out a severance. 57 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,240 We put together an exit package. Why wouldn't you just 58 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:35,639 do that? Why wouldn't you just do that? But instead 59 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,560 we get the secrecy. The closed session votes we can't 60 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,240 talk about it, threatening people with criminal charges if they 61 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,920 tell anybody about the settlement, which the terms of the 62 00:04:45,959 --> 00:04:55,720 settlement have to be reported. So he amends the separation agreement, 63 00:04:55,759 --> 00:05:00,480 that's what they're calling it, a separation agreement, and he 64 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,800 amends it to waive the whatever is confidential, so now 65 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,879 we can know the details of it. But you don't 66 00:05:08,879 --> 00:05:11,800 have to waive that. See, he says. In this interview, 67 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:17,199 Jennings says he wanted to share the terms of this settlement. 68 00:05:18,519 --> 00:05:21,560 He wanted to share it because quote, the benefits of 69 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:27,319 releasing it outweigh protecting my information on a personal level. Yeah, 70 00:05:27,399 --> 00:05:33,319 there isn't any personal information in it. It's an agreement. 71 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,199 And the city says, we're not admitting to anything. We 72 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,160 didn't do anything wrong. Chief Jennings isn't admitting to anything. 73 00:05:43,399 --> 00:05:45,279 You could have just done this as a severance deal, 74 00:05:45,439 --> 00:05:49,839 but you made it into this huge thing, probably because 75 00:05:49,879 --> 00:05:55,439 that's actually what it was. He says. We're all still sorry. 76 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,199 Let me let's start this again. This is a quote. 77 00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:00,639 We're all sitting in a chair with a bomb in it. 78 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,920 We just hope to get up before it goes off. 79 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,959 That's what Jennings relayed to the reporter that a close 80 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,360 friend in the organization often says, this is the Major 81 00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:20,160 Cities Chiefs Association. So the police chiefs recognize that they 82 00:06:20,199 --> 00:06:27,079 are in these large city chief positions and it's not 83 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:31,199 a matter of if, it's a matter of when you're 84 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,079 gonna get shown the door. And he talks about it 85 00:06:35,079 --> 00:06:36,920 in the piece, and I think he is exactly right 86 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:42,639 that he's he's got the rank and file morale of 87 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,079 the police that he's trying to keep high, you know, 88 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,480 keep your numbers up, be seen as a cops cop. 89 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,319 You know, I'm one of you. I'm going to be 90 00:06:52,399 --> 00:06:54,600 your advocate and all of that. You're my employees, and 91 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:57,279 I'm going to protect you and all of that. And 92 00:06:57,319 --> 00:07:00,399 then if you don't, then they get mad at you 93 00:07:00,439 --> 00:07:02,959 and they lose confidence in you. And then on the 94 00:07:02,959 --> 00:07:09,000 other side you have activists and they just savage you 95 00:07:09,319 --> 00:07:12,000 if like when there was a police shooting, and they 96 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,480 go after the police, they go after the chief. And 97 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:19,000 so these are these two competing sort of constituencies, if 98 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,480 you will. And then you add in the politicians, the 99 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,360 city council members. They are also particularly Democrats with the 100 00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:31,040 activist crowd. They are, you know, they are susceptible to 101 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,600 this form of activist persuasion, shall we say, But this 102 00:07:36,759 --> 00:07:38,639 is the analogy. You're sitting in a chair with a 103 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:42,600 bomb in it, and you're just hoping that you get 104 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,199 up off the chair before it goes off. Jennings is 105 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,000 now getting up. He'll retire from CMPD after thirty three 106 00:07:50,079 --> 00:07:55,240 years of service on January one, twenty twenty six, and 107 00:07:55,279 --> 00:07:59,680 the reporter says, he told me this Thursday Thursday. So 108 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,959 this story came out on Saturday, the twenty fifth Memorial 109 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,720 Day weekend. That date was signed as part of a 110 00:08:08,759 --> 00:08:12,399 widely speculated agreement with the city, which he also released 111 00:08:12,399 --> 00:08:16,560 to me. In a wide ranging three hour conversation, the 112 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:21,720 embattled but still idealistic CMPD leader discussed the dispute over 113 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,360 outer carrier vests that led to the severance agreement, his 114 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,920 ups and his downs as police chief since taking the 115 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,639 job during the summer of unrest in twenty twenty mostly peaceful, 116 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,840 sometimes fiery. His career as well was covered, his upbringing, 117 00:08:36,879 --> 00:08:40,559 his family, a little fishing. Even notably, he never mentioned 118 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,480 the name of former councilman Tark Bocari referring to him 119 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,039 only by the title. When I asked specific questions about 120 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,799 the year long dispute over whether patrol officers should be 121 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,440 allowed to wear outer carrier vests as part of their uniform. 122 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,120 We took a forty five minute break in the middle 123 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,759 of the interview, during which he signed an amendment to 124 00:08:59,799 --> 00:09:03,399 a settlement agreement that granted him permission to release his 125 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,000 personnel information. The original agreement, which he signed May eighth, 126 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,519 after council approved it in a closed session three days earlier, 127 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,279 included a clause that said he in the city could 128 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,159 not disclose it. He said he wanted to share it 129 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,960 because the benefits of releasing it outweigh protecting my information 130 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,120 on personal level. Again, there was not personal information in there, 131 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,320 just the terms of the severance package, and that is disclosable. 132 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:37,320 So why did this Why did this gag order clause 133 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,440 or the gag clause? Why did this thing even exist? 134 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,440 Who wanted it in there? Don't know? Did all parties 135 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,759 want it in there? Did somebody object? Seems like some 136 00:09:47,799 --> 00:09:54,399 city council members objected. Three hundred five thousand dollars is 137 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:57,080 what he's going to get paid out. He says it's 138 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,759 more like a severance package. See, but people have been, 139 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,399 you know, misreporting on it, misstating what it is. Yeah, 140 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,759 well that happens when nobody says what's in it? That's 141 00:10:08,799 --> 00:10:11,600 what happens, all right. If you're listening to this show, 142 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:13,200 you know I try to keep up with all sorts 143 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,240 of current events, and I know you do too. And 144 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,759 you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources. 145 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,519 Why Well, because it's how you detect media bias, which 146 00:10:22,519 --> 00:10:25,440 is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's 147 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,960 an app, and it's a website, and it combines news 148 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,919 from around the world in one place so you can 149 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,360 compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out 150 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,000 at check dot ground, dot news, slash pete. I put 151 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,960 the link in the podcast description too. I started using 152 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,879 ground News a few months ago and more recently chose 153 00:10:44,919 --> 00:10:46,879 to work with them as an affiliate because it lets 154 00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:50,519 me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. 155 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:53,720 The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored 156 00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:56,679 by the left and the right. See for yourself check 157 00:10:56,799 --> 00:11:01,240 dot ground, dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link 158 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,200 and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use 159 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,360 the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. 160 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,320 Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it 161 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,519 also supports ground news as they make the media landscape 162 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,279 more transparent. Jerry, welcome to the program. 163 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 2: How are you hey, I'm great, Pete. I just wanted 164 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,799 to say I heard that he got a twenty five 165 00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:29,840 thousand dollars money a lot for legal fees. Yeah, what 166 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:34,759 legal fees? There was no attorneys, there was no lawsuit brought, 167 00:11:34,879 --> 00:11:37,879 So what legal fees are they talking about? 168 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: So they do not describe that in detail in the 169 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:47,240 agreement or in the article, but there is a chronology 170 00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:51,480 in the article, and it says by August twenty twenty four, 171 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,840 Jennings had relented and changed the vest policy. Bakari thanked 172 00:11:56,919 --> 00:12:01,799 Jennings for doing so publicly and privately, but Jennings didn't 173 00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:06,000 let it end there. Wfae's report on the text messages 174 00:12:06,039 --> 00:12:09,159 didn't come out until November, following a public records request, 175 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,639 but by then, Jennings had already retained legal counsel. Okay, 176 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,960 so he hired the lawyer before the text messages were public. 177 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,720 He says, it wasn't about the text messages. I keep 178 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:26,000 hearing that oh, you know, the chief had his feelings 179 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:29,879 hurt over some text messages. I'm a former college football player. 180 00:12:29,919 --> 00:12:32,639 I've had my feelings hurt by coaches, but certainly not 181 00:12:32,759 --> 00:12:35,759 by words written down in text messages. It was more 182 00:12:35,799 --> 00:12:39,279 about what happened after. Everybody focused on the texts, but 183 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,120 not the other things. What other things. The push for 184 00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:46,039 me to be fired, the push for the city manager 185 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,720 to be fired, the push for the petition for people 186 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:51,519 to go online and sign up for my termination or 187 00:12:51,519 --> 00:12:54,960 forcing the manager to fire me. That's what he retained 188 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:55,799 legal council for. 189 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: Okay, that's just still to me. Feat come on, I mean, 190 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,799 let's be realistic. Twenty five thousand dollars, you know for 191 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,519 for something like that, that's to me, that's ridiculous. I'm 192 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,679 a retired police officer, okay, and that that to me, 193 00:13:12,799 --> 00:13:13,679 that's a lot of money. 194 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:14,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. 195 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:15,879 Speaker 2: Sorry, that's just a lot of money. That is a 196 00:13:15,879 --> 00:13:18,320 lot of it, and that just seems ridiculous to me. 197 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:21,159 Speaker 1: It's a nice whole number too him. That's a nice 198 00:13:21,159 --> 00:13:26,679 whole number, which is weird for legal fees, legal bills 199 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,559 and such, because they bill you by time, you know, 200 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,679 the lawyers do, and so right, right, and then they 201 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,120 also say that they're going to be that each party 202 00:13:34,159 --> 00:13:38,559 is responsible for paying their own legal fees. So it's 203 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,200 a so it's a twenty five thousand dollars check, but 204 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:45,639 then Jennings takes the check and then he writes whatever 205 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,600 or he reimburses himself out of that for whatever legal 206 00:13:49,759 --> 00:13:53,039 fees that he paid for or you know, or O's 207 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,679 and so, okay, I seriously doubt that the legal bill 208 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,240 is twenty five k on the button. You know, it 209 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,240 seems like there may be a little bit of padding 210 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:04,559 on that. 211 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree, Pete, and I appreciate you 212 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,720 covering it. Yeah, that's great because I got a lot 213 00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:13,600 of friends that's still working there and that are very 214 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,879 upset with this situation with Chief Jennings. 215 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, a lot of a lot of residents, non 216 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,120 law enforcement are upset about it also. And I think 217 00:14:24,159 --> 00:14:29,440 the FOP is they're they're proceeding today right there. Online 218 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,639 voting began yesterday and there in person voting began today 219 00:14:34,679 --> 00:14:37,279 for the no confidence vote in the in the chief. 220 00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:40,200 But now he's going to be retiring, So I mean, 221 00:14:40,279 --> 00:14:44,120 you know what different, right, but I mean it is 222 00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:47,080 you're laying down the Marker. So at least you're conveying 223 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,279 the sentiment of you know, the FOP, So there is 224 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,679 that there is a benefit of doing so, Jerry, I 225 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:55,039 appreciate the call, buddy, thank you. Thanks for your service. 226 00:14:54,759 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: Too, Yes, sir, thank you, Peter. 227 00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:00,399 Speaker 1: Take care. Yeah, So this to me was an interesting 228 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,480 part of the story, the TikTok, not the app but 229 00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:10,799 the chronology, the timeline. See, it's so many So much 230 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,799 of journalism is about just keeping track of what happened 231 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,879 and when right, just keeping a calendar, keeping a timeline 232 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:22,759 of this stuff so you can see the way the 233 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,320 story develops over time. 234 00:15:25,399 --> 00:15:25,759 Speaker 2: And so. 235 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: The chronology is very helpful. Again, it omits the part 236 00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:37,159 about the ethics complaint, and I almost wonder if there 237 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:41,360 was something going on there with the legal fees that 238 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,000 was connected to the ethics complaint. But I don't know. 239 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:52,279 Did he consult an attorney on the defamation charge, like, oh, 240 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,200 I'm going to sue for defamations, I'm going to go 241 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,919 and get a consult with an attorney. Maybe you had 242 00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:00,080 to pay a twenty five thousand dollars retainer or something. 243 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,120 I don't know. When Jennings took the job in twenty twenty. 244 00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:08,559 He continued a long running department rule that restricted patrol 245 00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:13,519 officers from wearing the outer vest carriers or ballistic vests 246 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,080 over the uniform unless the officer had a medical exemption. 247 00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:22,080 The three previous police chiefs all had the same policy. 248 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:27,039 They believed the vests did not align with community oriented 249 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,759 policing philosophies, which attempt to bridge gaps between officers and 250 00:16:31,799 --> 00:16:36,200 the people they serve. Jennings had made customer service central 251 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,879 to his administration, and he kept the uniform policy. He said, 252 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,759 that's not the look that I want for our police department. 253 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:50,600 But Councilman Bokari, who represented South Charlotte until April, as 254 00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:55,240 well as the local FOP, believed all officers should have 255 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,200 the option to wear them, and this was not a 256 00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:00,759 new position for them either. Bakari had been advocating for 257 00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:03,799 the vests for more than two years. He often cited 258 00:17:03,799 --> 00:17:07,519 research that showed the vests improved officer comfort and conversations 259 00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:11,759 with officers who said that they wanted the vests. And 260 00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:15,000 so he tries to put it in the budget, he 261 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,680 doesn't get the votes. Chief Jennings opposes it. It's an 262 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,079 aesthetic decision, that's it. Like, oh my gosh, I'm so 263 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,839 intimidated because this officer is wearing a vest with stuff 264 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,839 on the outside of it. Ah, you know, like this 265 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,400 is that was the argument. I don't buy it. By 266 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:38,319 the way, I don't buy it. So then August rolls around, 267 00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:42,359 they're in there, they do the budget. Then August hits 268 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,160 Bokari has now gone public with this campaign. He can't 269 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,079 get the budget money from the city council, who rely 270 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,799 on the chief to say no, don't do it, so 271 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:57,240 they basically make the chief the public face of the 272 00:17:57,279 --> 00:18:01,880 no policy. Bakari raises me, honey, privately, gets a bunch 273 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,599 of vests donated, and then the chief relents and says, okay, 274 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,359 if anybody wants them, they can request him. And then 275 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,880 he goes and hires a lawyer, and now he's going 276 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,839 to go after Bakari. That's what it sounds like. Here's 277 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,440 a great idea. How about making an escape to a 278 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,000 really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina just 279 00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:23,640 a quick drive up the mountain and cabins of Ashville 280 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,480 is your connection. Whether you're celebrating an anniversary a honeymoon, 281 00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:29,759 maybe you want to plan a memorable proposal or get 282 00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:32,680 family and friends together for a big old reunion. 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Anyway, 303 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,079 do the Charlotte City Council and Chief Jennings truly expect 304 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,519 anybody to believe this severance story is anything but a 305 00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:52,640 cover up, especially at this point. How many weeks has 306 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,960 it taken them to come up with it? So I 307 00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:01,519 think this was drawn up, well, the package was drawn 308 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:08,599 up back on May eighth, and or yeah, or well 309 00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:10,240 I guess he signed at May eighth because it was 310 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:13,599 drawn up on May fifth or something. City council. This 311 00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:16,640 is what they approved. So and they call it general 312 00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:22,279 I'm sorry, Uh yeah, General Waiver, Release and Separation Agreement. 313 00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:30,000 And then they have the the amended version which says, 314 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,880 you know, mutual confidentiality is deleted from the title such 315 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,480 that it is now titled non disparagement. And this is 316 00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:43,160 pretty standard in contracts when people are leaving. It's like, 317 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,680 don't talk any crap about me, and I won't talk 318 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:51,640 any crap about you, you know. And apparently, according to 319 00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:56,359 Jennings in this interview, he had been looking to retire 320 00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:00,920 for a while and he didn't even need to take 321 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,079 the job. This was another part of it. It's like, 322 00:21:04,319 --> 00:21:07,720 I mean, I understand this is part of his thinking 323 00:21:07,839 --> 00:21:10,960 on this stuff, and maybe he's a little salty about it, 324 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,640 like I didn't even have to be here. Was that 325 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,079 movie Clerk's right where he's like, this is my day off, 326 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:18,519 I don't have to be here. So and maybe he 327 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,000 just he comes across as kind of salty about this. 328 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,279 He believed it was his duty on behalf of other 329 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,160 current and future department leaders in the city to stand 330 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:38,160 up to a public pressure campaign mounted by Bakari. See 331 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,079 he's looking at it like the next chief that comes in, right, 332 00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:46,480 he's gonna he's gonna be dealing with, you know, whatever 333 00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:50,400 norms have been adopted under my watch. So he's like, 334 00:21:50,599 --> 00:21:54,039 I'm gonna push back against this because, as you know, 335 00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:56,160 I talked to Pat McCrory the other day about this, 336 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,400 and he said they always had this rule of let 337 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,200 the chief be the chief, let him do his job, 338 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,680 don't micro manage the police chief, right, And so this 339 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:12,440 is what Jennings seems to be channeling, this idea let 340 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,559 me do my job. And I'm saying no vests back off, 341 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,039 and then Bookari's like, well, no, I'm going to, you know, 342 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,000 do a very public campaign. I'm going to raise the 343 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,920 money and I'm going to basically turn cops against the boss. 344 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,519 And then it worked, and that's what the chief was 345 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:36,039 trying to stop from happening. And then after he relented 346 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,279 and let them have the vests, that's when he then 347 00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:43,480 hires a lawyer, and I suspect that's when they started 348 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,920 to try to go after Bookary with an ethics complaint. 349 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,599 And then when that didn't work, he said, I'm gonna 350 00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:55,559 sue and I'm gonna quit. I guess that's what happened. 351 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,039 He says, I want to make sure that when you 352 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,799 hire a leader to a certain department within our city, 353 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,640 then let them run the department. And then the reporter. 354 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,759 This is over at the Charlotte Optimist as well as 355 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,079 the assemblyanc dot com, and the piece is written by 356 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,160 Michael Graff. It's in some ways, excuse me, it's in 357 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,240 some ways a story as old as time. I don't 358 00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:24,039 know if it actually is, but anyway, an exemplary public 359 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,200 servant rises in the ranks only to encounter frustration in 360 00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:31,440 dealing with the politics of the top job. The more 361 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,000 public the disputes became, the more he stowed internally over 362 00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:38,839 how he spent thirty three years in policing only to 363 00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:42,680 end up in the chair with the bomb. Right, That's 364 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,400 the analogy he gave earlier in the interview. Later, he 365 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:53,240 mentioned multiple times in our conversation Jennings did that he 366 00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:55,799 could have made more money if he had just retired 367 00:23:55,839 --> 00:23:59,240 when he became eligible five years ago, or if he 368 00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:05,000 had left for a private sector job. So he keeps 369 00:24:05,039 --> 00:24:08,519 saying this, like, I didn't have to take this job, right, 370 00:24:08,599 --> 00:24:11,440 but you did. This is like people who run for 371 00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:14,839 office and then, you know, complain about all of the 372 00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:18,039 the problems and the impact that the job has and 373 00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:20,279 oh there's so much downside, all of this stuff. You know, 374 00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:24,319 But you asked for the gig, right, you asked for it. 375 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,279 You didn't have to take this job you wanted to take. 376 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:34,240 To take the job, he apparently was also offered the 377 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,799 police chief job down in Greenville, South Carolina, but he 378 00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:43,279 took the chief job here. And he says he could 379 00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:46,359 have collected his pension in Charlotte and then taken that 380 00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:54,079 job in another city. Okay, Like that's that's not our fault, 381 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,279 that's not the taxpayer's fault. You you made your choice. 382 00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:03,400 You had Arlotte or Greenville, and you chose Charlotte. You 383 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,279 wanted to be the chief of this department. He talked 384 00:25:08,319 --> 00:25:14,359 about how he saw former well then Chief Rodney Monroe 385 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,440 say that a CMPDEE officer would be charged with voluntary 386 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,359 manslaughter in the death of Jonathan Ferrell or Farrell in 387 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:30,400 September twenty thirteen. While people in the community praised Monroe 388 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,880 and his investigators for acting swiftly, the chief lost the 389 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,359 faith of many rank and file officers. Later, three years later, 390 00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:44,759 police Chief Kerk Putney he handled a different police killing differently. 391 00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:49,200 This was the shooting of Keith Lamont Scott, and Putney 392 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:55,519 kept emphasizing that Keith Scott had a gun, contrary to 393 00:25:55,599 --> 00:26:01,039 social media lies, it's not rumors, they were lies. Putney's 394 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,839 blunt perspective and defense of his officers helped with police morale, 395 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,759 but it brought significant criticism from community members who filled 396 00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:14,359 city hall calling for his resignation. And then, of course 397 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,920 you have the death of Saint George Floyd in Minneapolis, 398 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:26,240 and Jennings was shadowing Putney during those protests in twenty twenty, 399 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,559 and so he saw like the way the two different 400 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,000 chiefs handled these types of explosive situations, and he was like, 401 00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:38,559 I want to try to try to thread the needle. 402 00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:40,720 I got to try to balance this. So that's where 403 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:46,319 he's identifying these pressures that are coming from his employees 404 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,880 and then the community activists, and it sounds like a 405 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,319 lot of those are the people that made his life. Hell, 406 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,119 he said, I tried to have that blend. How do 407 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,400 we regain community support, how do we keep morale? How 408 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,480 do we keep our officers doing the job that they're 409 00:27:05,519 --> 00:27:08,759 here to do? Right? So, like this is the challenge 410 00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:12,559 that is the politics of being a big city police chief. 411 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,880 It is a political role, and it sounds like he 412 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,920 did not like it all right, So spring is here 413 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,160 a time of renewal and celebrations. You've got graduations, weddings, 414 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,200 anniversaries and the special days for mom and dad. Your 415 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,559 family's making memories that are going to last a lifetime. 416 00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:34,319 But let me ask you, are all of those treasured 417 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,039 moments from days gone by? 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Creative Video Preserving Family 428 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,279 Memories since nineteen ninety seven, located in mint Hill, just 429 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,440 off four eighty five. Mail orders are accepted to get 430 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,480 all the details that create a video dot com. I 431 00:28:24,519 --> 00:28:29,480 got an email here from Thomas who says, I've been 432 00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:31,599 kind of following this story and I guess they are 433 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,000 really going to pay off this loser. Ha. I think 434 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:39,799 they already did. Of course they are. They are the 435 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,920 one party government. Insanity like this is why we moved 436 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,559 out of Charlotte twelve years ago and why after eleven 437 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,720 years of service, our son resigned from CMPD. One party rule, 438 00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:53,519 all their lies and Charlotte's crazy politics makes our move 439 00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:57,319 to South Carolina look better and better every loving day. 440 00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:01,039 All we can say is Charlotte and enjoy the ride. 441 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:10,079 You are paying for it. So in this article at 442 00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:17,519 the Assembly, Johnny Jennings said that he had considered not 443 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,160 taking the job five years ago, and that in April 444 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,680 of last year, twenty twenty four, he was planning to 445 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,599 announce his retirement, but he had not settled on a date, 446 00:29:31,119 --> 00:29:34,640 and then there was the murder of the four law 447 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,799 enforcement officers, including a CMPD officer, in East Charlotte while 448 00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:41,960 they were trying to serve a warrant. So he told 449 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,599 his wife he wanted to delay his retirement to see 450 00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:52,240 the city through this tragedy. He says he hopes releasing 451 00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:57,519 the agreement himself will help with public trust. It will, Yes, 452 00:29:57,599 --> 00:30:00,000 it will, which is why I said, y'all should do it. 453 00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:03,039 The chief could do it, City council could do it. 454 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,079 They should have done it. Everybody should have done this. 455 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,000 Y'all should have done this from the beginning. But the 456 00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:15,759 way you went about it did not inspire trust, particularly 457 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,640 when you have council members that are at the time 458 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,359 came out and we're talking about the way this was 459 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,880 done and what is it for and not being made 460 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,079 aware that an ethics complaint was filed and dismissed. May. 461 00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:36,599 He's still haven't address that, He says. He wants to 462 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,839 be clear that he is retiring because it's time to retire, 463 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:43,599 not because of all of this. He could have retired 464 00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:45,839 in twenty twenty, he says, but he stayed on. He 465 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,200 planned to retire in twenty four and stayed on. He 466 00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:54,359 already has his next career lined up, and he planned 467 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,319 to step into it earlier this year, but will stay 468 00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:01,119 on for seven more months to assis assist with the transition. 469 00:31:01,559 --> 00:31:06,920 Despite the lingering controversy and reputational damage see once again, 470 00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:13,359 show me the actual harm. But we don't get that 471 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,799 we get. According to the agreement, the City of Charlotte 472 00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:22,559 denies any and all of the allegations ever made against 473 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:26,599 them by Jennings, including but not limited to the allegations 474 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,079 set forth in this dispute and dispute that they are 475 00:31:29,119 --> 00:31:32,079 in any way liable to Jennings for anything or for 476 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,000 any reason. So they're saying none of that's true. We 477 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:39,480 don't agree to any of it, and none of this. 478 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,640 All the parties acknowledge and degree that the allocation of 479 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,839 the funding is made for purposes of settlement and is 480 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,559 not intended to and should not be deemed an admission 481 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,640 of any liability for any such damages. The City of 482 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:03,880 Charlotte specifically denies any liability whatsoever. Right, but we don't 483 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,240 know what you're even denying because we didn't get any 484 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,000 kind of a lawsuit filed. We don't have any information 485 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:18,720 about why this was needed, why you came to this agreement, 486 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,680 he says. I'm not worried about myself. Where I became 487 00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:29,680 enraged is the effects that it has on my wife, 488 00:32:30,039 --> 00:32:32,519 the effects it has on my kids. That to me 489 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,000 is the effect that I don't know people realize, or 490 00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:38,680 if they realize it, then they don't care. Now this, 491 00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:43,319 I totally understand this part. I completely understand this. It 492 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:51,160 is always harder on the family members, family members of politicians, 493 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,599 you know, high ranking government officials and the like, media people. 494 00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:59,880 It's always like people say stuff about me all the time, 495 00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:02,839 and I don't care they. I don't know why people 496 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,480 constantly mistake me for somebody who gives a rip about 497 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,359 their opinion of me. I do not care. Right, you 498 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,920 can call me the names, you can say all this 499 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,240 stuff and It doesn't matter to me, but it matters 500 00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:16,400 to the people that love me. They don't like that 501 00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:20,880 very much. And then sometimes they get attacked. And when 502 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,759 you are in the police chief position, right, it's tough 503 00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:27,599 on that family. So I totally get it, and I 504 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,680 sympathize with him on that, and you get to a 505 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,319 point where it's like, you know what, this isn't worth it. 506 00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:35,880 The juice is not worth the squeeze on this. Totally 507 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:41,559 understand that. This was towards the end of our conversation. 508 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:45,720 By then, it had become a parent that Jennings hasn't 509 00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:49,279 spent the past year in a conflict over tactical vests 510 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,599 or transparency or interviews. He was facing down a new 511 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:59,599 breed of confrontation and policymaking, a theater of online comments 512 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:05,000 and optimized headlines that ran counter to his nature. He 513 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,079 was ill suited, for better or worse, to tangle with 514 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:13,400 his media savvy opponents online. And I guess he's talking 515 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,320 about Tark Bakari and whatever army Bakari was able to 516 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,400 marshal in order to get the tactical vest policy changed. 517 00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:28,599 I guess I don't know what all what messages the 518 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:33,159 chief was getting from whoever was trying to do the 519 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:38,119 pressure campaign. But that's that's politics, man. 520 00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 2: And. 521 00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm at a loss to understand why. I guess this 522 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,000 is surprising, he says. I've never treated people like that, 523 00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:54,199 And to publicly try to defame someone through social media, 524 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,239 through the media, through any of that, I just think 525 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,960 there's too much of that that goes on in our 526 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,440 world nowadays, and it's a shame. Again. I don't know 527 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,360 that you were defamed nobody, Like after the vest issue 528 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,039 was settled, when you said, okay, we can let the 529 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:13,800 cops have the vests that were funded through private donations. 530 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,679 At that point, it all went away. I saw nothing 531 00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:21,760 ever since then in any media about any of this 532 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,599 stuff until the text message report came out in November, 533 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,039 and then that didn't make the chief look bad, it 534 00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:33,000 made Bokari look bad. So like I just I don't 535 00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:38,239 understand what the actual harm was. All right, that'll do 536 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,840 it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. 537 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,079 I could not do the show without your support and 538 00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:45,800 the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, 539 00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:48,280 So if you'd like, please support them too and tell 540 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,000 them you heard it here. You can also become a 541 00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:54,719 patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecalanershow dot com. Again, 542 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,480 thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything 543 00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:04,079 while I'm gone.