WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Monster House Presents.

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<v Speaker 2>If you've been listening to Munster Talk for a while,

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<v Speaker 2>you've heard a few things here and there about how

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<v Speaker 2>I served in the Navy, and my web handle is

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<v Speaker 2>usually doctor Atlantis, although I have to add that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not a doctor and I don't believe there was a

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<v Speaker 2>literal Atlantis. And maybe you thought to yourself, what if

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<v Speaker 2>there was a way that this guy could combine his

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<v Speaker 2>experience with being on a ship, his fascination in the

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<v Speaker 2>mysteries of Atlantis, and the Bermuda Triangle ooh, and his

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifth wedding anniversary all into one big cruise ship

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<v Speaker 2>themed experience that you could come along with. Well, then

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<v Speaker 2>you're in luck, because Monster Talk is combining forces with

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<v Speaker 2>the popular skeptical podcast Skeptoid as we brave the Bermuda

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<v Speaker 2>Triangle in twenty twenty five, I'll be one of the

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<v Speaker 2>skeptic celebrities participating in this adventure in the warm waters

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<v Speaker 2>off the coast of Florida. Will we find the Missing

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<v Speaker 2>Flight nineteen? Will we find proof of Atlantis? Will Sea

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<v Speaker 2>Musters pilot us through these mystery filled waters? No, but

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<v Speaker 2>I promise you there will be science and history field

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<v Speaker 2>discussions and plenty of punds if I have anything to

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<v Speaker 2>do with it. Early bird pricing is still available, so

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<v Speaker 2>come get some sun, visit beautiful places, roll your eyes

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<v Speaker 2>at my terrible puns, and raise money to fund Skeptoid

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<v Speaker 2>and Monster Talk shared mission of promoting skepticism and science

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<v Speaker 2>while still enjoying a good mystery. Plus you'll get to

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<v Speaker 2>meet my wife as we celebrate twenty five years of

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<v Speaker 2>marriage together. So maybe there's not going to be any

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<v Speaker 2>UFOs or time bor disease, but you know a thing

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<v Speaker 2>like that. At least heince that miracles can happen, So

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<v Speaker 2>sign up soon before the early bird prices go away.

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<v Speaker 2>Check the show notes for a link, or go to

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<v Speaker 2>skeptoid dot com and click events to find your way

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<v Speaker 2>onto Braving the Bermuda Triangle Hiptoid Adventure. It's actually quite

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<v Speaker 2>unlike anything we've ever seen before.

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<v Speaker 3>A giant, hairy creature. Part eight, Part mast in Luckness,

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<v Speaker 3>a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake in the

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<v Speaker 3>Highlands of Scotland. It's a creature known as the Luckness

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<v Speaker 3>Monster Monster Talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Blake Smith and I'm Karen Stolsner. When Karen asked me

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<v Speaker 2>about covering the Hackamock Triangle, I wasn't certain what she

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<v Speaker 2>was talking about, but when I figured out she was

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<v Speaker 2>talking about what I've known as the Bridgewater Triangle, it

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<v Speaker 2>all clicked. I'm actually surprised we haven't done more on

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<v Speaker 2>this topic before, but I'm sharing a conversation we had

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<v Speaker 2>with podcaster and friend of the show, Andy Driscoll, and

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<v Speaker 2>this is his stumping ground, this is where he comes from.

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<v Speaker 2>Check the show notes for a link to his show,

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<v Speaker 2>The Old Colony Cast, which he does with another Monster

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<v Speaker 2>Talk supporter who will presently remain nameless, but whose support

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<v Speaker 2>we appreciate very much. Anyway, this recording is about the

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<v Speaker 2>Bridgewater Triangle. It's an area of mystery that was defined

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<v Speaker 2>geographically by Lauren Coleman in the nineteen eighties. But clearly

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<v Speaker 2>Lauren was playing with the idea of the Bermuda Triangle.

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<v Speaker 2>And this, of course reminded me of the cruise that

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be taking the summer as part of the Skeptoid

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<v Speaker 2>podcasts Braving the Bermuda Triangle adventure, which in turn reminded

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<v Speaker 2>me the fact that the Bermuda Triangle had been very

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<v Speaker 2>rationally and systematically debunked by a librarian working at Arizona

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<v Speaker 2>State University's library back in nineteen seventy five. That was

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<v Speaker 2>Larry Kusch, whose book The Bermuda Triangle Missed Resolved explained

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<v Speaker 2>that there was no statistical significance to the many disappearances

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<v Speaker 2>in that region compared to any other regions of the

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<v Speaker 2>ocean with similar traffic volume. In other words, he made

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<v Speaker 2>the overall concept of a remuter triangle disappear itself in

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<v Speaker 2>a puff of statistical analysis. And I love that, But

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sad to report that Larry passed away July twenty second,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four. Now, he and I never spoke, but

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<v Speaker 2>I did think of him often, and I appreciate the

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<v Speaker 2>work that he put in. I put some links to

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<v Speaker 2>Larry's obituary and his Wikipedia page in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 2>Now the question remains whether the Bridge Water, or as

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<v Speaker 2>our guest refers to it, the Hockamack Triangle, would also

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<v Speaker 2>disappear if we applied similar statistical analysis. And I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not apples to apples to look at a region

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<v Speaker 2>with many reported monsters compared to other reported disappearances in

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<v Speaker 2>shipping lanes. But something tells me that when you get

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<v Speaker 2>down to it, any kind of window area or a

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<v Speaker 2>mysterious triangle or whatever regular geometrical shape you want to

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<v Speaker 2>apply to such a regionalization. At the heart of it,

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<v Speaker 2>what you'll be looking at is how obsessively a researcher

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<v Speaker 2>is willing to collect data on a place. But that's

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<v Speaker 2>just a hypothesis anyway. This is an introductory episode to

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<v Speaker 2>the concept, and we'll be lightly touching on several mysterious

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<v Speaker 2>phenomena reported there, and I hope to dive in deeper

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<v Speaker 2>on some of these this year. So thanks to Andy

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<v Speaker 2>for coming to be our local tour guide. Once he's

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<v Speaker 2>shown us the highlights, we'll dig deeper in future more instrutal. So,

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<v Speaker 2>first of all, let me say I'm just going to

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<v Speaker 2>do an intro here in the sense of welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>the show, Andy Driscoll. But I don't think I mean

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<v Speaker 2>if I told people that I know you through a

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<v Speaker 2>neebriart and that we've talked before on podcasts, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it would still be best if you introduced yourself and

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<v Speaker 2>guided people to where you'd like them to find you.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm Andy Driscoll. I run a kneebri Art.

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<v Speaker 4>It is a company based in Massachusetts and we run

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<v Speaker 4>all sorts of events at Barsbery's and restaurants, and like

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<v Speaker 4>seven or eight years ago we decided to get in

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<v Speaker 4>a podcasting and we have three different shows, was in

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<v Speaker 4>a fourth one launching in the spring, because I just

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<v Speaker 4>over commit to things. And you can find an ebri

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<v Speaker 4>Art pretty much anywhere you know you'd find podcasts where

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<v Speaker 4>there there's some four hundred plus episodes and we've had

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<v Speaker 4>a Monster Talk episode and a Karen stoles Now episode

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<v Speaker 4>and yes, I mean and then.

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<v Speaker 3>You can just find us on our website at need

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<v Speaker 3>your art dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, very cool, and we'll put links to that stuff

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<v Speaker 2>in the show notes. Now, we're gonna be talking about

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<v Speaker 2>a topic that we're calling the Hackamock Triangle. It's also

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<v Speaker 2>called the Bridgewater Triangle, and we'll actually be talking a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit about the naming along the way.

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<v Speaker 3>Cure.

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to say, this is a big topic

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<v Speaker 2>and we're just this is like the introductory episode because

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<v Speaker 2>I think we're going to come back to this and

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<v Speaker 2>dive in a little deeper in the future. So let's

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<v Speaker 2>just sort of take a let's go, let's swamping.

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<v Speaker 4>Sure, I have pretty much lived my entire life inside

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<v Speaker 4>the Bridgewater Triangle and I didn't even really know about

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<v Speaker 4>it until maybe twenty years ago, give or take.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's a massive, massive subject.

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<v Speaker 5>So, yeah, Andy, I was on your show, I think

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<v Speaker 5>it was a couple of weeks ago now, and we

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<v Speaker 5>got talking about the hock a Mock Triangle and I

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<v Speaker 5>hadn't heard of it before, and you said you lived

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<v Speaker 5>in the area, So if you could tell us a

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<v Speaker 5>little bit about I know, again, this is a huge topic,

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<v Speaker 5>but give us an overview of where this is and

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<v Speaker 5>sure what it is.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So it is a two hundred roughly two hundred

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<v Speaker 4>square mile you know, triangle that someone drew on the map,

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<v Speaker 4>and it is located probably the top point is probably

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<v Speaker 4>about Thirlready to forty minutes south of Boston, and its

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<v Speaker 4>most southern point is probably that same distance, just above

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<v Speaker 4>Cape Cod. It's effecially known as either the South Shore

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<v Speaker 4>or South Coast of Massachusetts, depending on which side of

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<v Speaker 4>Cape Cod you're on, and it's signified by three towns,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's Abington, Freetown in Rehoboth that kind of makes

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<v Speaker 4>up the the triangle. And I grew up in Whitman,

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<v Speaker 4>which is one town over from Abington, and it is

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<v Speaker 4>a hotbed of It is every possible crypto paranormal catch all.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean everything from giants, snakes and birds to alien

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<v Speaker 4>abductions and saint worshippers.

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<v Speaker 3>A great place to grow up.

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<v Speaker 2>So you said you first became a aware of I

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<v Speaker 2>guess the lore even though you were living in it

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<v Speaker 2>about twenty years ago. So how did how did you

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<v Speaker 2>come to find out about.

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<v Speaker 4>It in the most obscure way possible. I used to

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<v Speaker 4>own a comic book shop and I had gotten a

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<v Speaker 4>someone had traded in a set of trading cars. It

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<v Speaker 4>was all like paranormal stuff, and I was just kind

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<v Speaker 4>of like thumbing through the cars just you know, I

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<v Speaker 4>love paranormal encryptids and whatnot.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was curious to see what was in there.

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<v Speaker 3>And then there was.

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<v Speaker 4>A card that just said Bridgewater Triangle and I'm like, what,

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<v Speaker 4>what what is it that?

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<v Speaker 3>That's where I live?

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<v Speaker 4>And I was literally in Bridgewater at the time, and

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<v Speaker 4>so then it just kind of took me down. This

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<v Speaker 4>is like early stages of the Internet, but took me

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<v Speaker 4>down a rabbit hole and really interesting, and it kind

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<v Speaker 4>of is fairly new as as far as triangles go.

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<v Speaker 4>It is accredited to Lauren Coleman, who runs the Cryptozoology

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<v Speaker 4>Museum in Portland, Maine.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and.

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<v Speaker 4>He was living in Massachusetts in the mid to late

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<v Speaker 4>seventies and noticed that the Bridgewaters form a triangle, which

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<v Speaker 4>I think is kind of silly because pretty much any

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<v Speaker 4>three points that aren't on a straight line are going

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<v Speaker 4>to form some sort of tragle.

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<v Speaker 2>It's true, It's true.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm not a you know, geometry person,

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<v Speaker 4>but I think that's right. And in his book in

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<v Speaker 4>eighty three Mysterious Amarica, he like coined the term the

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<v Speaker 4>Bridgewater triangle because he just started searching in that area

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<v Speaker 4>for paranormal stuff and just to credit it all to

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<v Speaker 4>this triangle. And a lot of the people who buy

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<v Speaker 4>into this believe it is because of the Kings, the

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<v Speaker 4>King Phillip's War, which is considered the bloodiest war in

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<v Speaker 4>American history per capita, which I think is a weird

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<v Speaker 4>thing to put on a war, but it was between

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<v Speaker 4>the colonizers and the indigenous tribes in this area, and

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<v Speaker 4>it was really, really terrible.

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<v Speaker 5>I just wanted to make a comment about the fact

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<v Speaker 5>that you've lived there and hadn't heard of this Bridgewater

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<v Speaker 5>triangle before. That's happened to me before as well. My

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<v Speaker 5>mother's lived for decades in Queensland and Australia and she

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<v Speaker 5>lived in a place called Butterham, and it was only

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<v Speaker 5>maybe ten years ago I think that I found out

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<v Speaker 5>about claims of a Butterham beast, so a local Tasmanian tiger.

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<v Speaker 5>So I think it's interesting how you can just live

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<v Speaker 5>in a place and there are all these claims that

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<v Speaker 5>are kind of surrounding the place and people living there

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<v Speaker 5>never heard of it before.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And it's and it's one of the areas of

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<v Speaker 4>the country that you know, has been around the longest.

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<v Speaker 4>It's right up the road from Plymouth where the Pilgrims landed.

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<v Speaker 4>And even when I was kind of doing some research

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<v Speaker 4>for this, I found more claims that I had never

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<v Speaker 4>heard in relation to like giant cats, And I'm like,

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<v Speaker 4>I've heard giant dogs, but I've heard giant cats in

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<v Speaker 4>relations to this, and yeah, so it is literally kind

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<v Speaker 4>of this catch all, you know, giant cats, giant dogs, bigfoot, puck, wedgies, UFOs,

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<v Speaker 4>lots of ghost stories, thunderbirds, spirit lights. I mean, just

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<v Speaker 4>anything you can think of is kind of accredited to

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<v Speaker 4>this area. And again, yeah, and and that's part of it.

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<v Speaker 4>Is the legend is that when Metacomet.

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<v Speaker 3>Who.

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<v Speaker 4>The colonizers referred to kind of auditory wise as King Phillips,

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<v Speaker 4>when he died in that war, it was said that

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<v Speaker 4>he put a curse on the land, and that's why

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<v Speaker 4>all this kind of bad juju exists around here.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, people might be very skeptical of this

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing, but if you look at all the angles

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<v Speaker 2>of the Bridgewater Triangle, you'll do a full one eighty.

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<v Speaker 3>So that that is true. That is true. That's just mad.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'm wondering too, because I mean it's not terribly

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<v Speaker 5>far away from Salem, so there stories of witches associated

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<v Speaker 5>with the area as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they're not too far away.

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<v Speaker 4>There was a kind of witch in the Plymouth area

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<v Speaker 4>called Mother Crew, and.

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<v Speaker 3>I would have to I know we've talked.

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<v Speaker 4>About her on one of our shows, and as much

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<v Speaker 4>I hope this happens to you guys when you podcast,

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<v Speaker 4>sometimes when you're done recording, that just kind of all

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<v Speaker 4>filters out of your head.

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<v Speaker 3>And i'd have to go back and review that.

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<v Speaker 4>But I know, Mother Crew was kind of like a

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<v Speaker 4>witch of the area, and you know, cursed people and

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<v Speaker 4>kind of.

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<v Speaker 3>That whole thing.

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<v Speaker 5>I think there's that kind of bridge. Witches and things

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<v Speaker 5>like that are very common in a lot of areas.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I mean we didn't have like the witch trials,

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<v Speaker 4>but again, like that was not not far away at all.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, So it's I get I've always been troubled

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<v Speaker 2>by triangles, not not the geometrical shape, but the paranormal encapsulation.

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<v Speaker 4>Is that I agree completely, Yeah, I mean I have

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<v Speaker 4>my reason too well.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it goes back to the Remuter triangle, where

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<v Speaker 2>a statistician did the work to point out that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it is a triangle. There's a lot of weird things,

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<v Speaker 2>but not any more than anywhere else. If you just

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<v Speaker 2>do a broad analysis of the trends and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>mysterious disappearances or not mysterious disappearances, then it's no more

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<v Speaker 2>statistically dangerous in any other place. But like every place

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<v Speaker 2>that has people tends to attract folklore. So I and

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<v Speaker 2>it's not to say that there's nothing weird going on,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just to say that in collecting it all and

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<v Speaker 2>then putting some lines around. It doesn't mean it's a

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<v Speaker 2>special place. It's just a place that's got lines around it.

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<v Speaker 2>But then you know, I mean, you know, states, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but geographical borders are a human construct too,

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<v Speaker 2>so I don't know, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean I agree, And I have no problem

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<v Speaker 4>saying I don't really think there's anything going on of

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<v Speaker 4>the interest here, and I have some personal theories of

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<v Speaker 4>things that I believe are in relation to this. But

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<v Speaker 4>and yeah, it is so much that this particular guy

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<v Speaker 4>I saw that three towns made a triangle and looked

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<v Speaker 4>up a bunch of spooky stuff and marked it on

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<v Speaker 4>the map, and then people just attribute everything in that

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<v Speaker 4>area to it, even if.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just outside the triangle, because.

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<v Speaker 4>They're like, well it's close, so you get kind of

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is not the first time that Lauren has.

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<v Speaker 3>Said it is just if you do that triangle anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Is this not the first time Lauren has drawn together

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<v Speaker 2>lots of connections between stuff that may not actually be related.

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<v Speaker 2>He's really into synchro mysticism and that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And also, I mean, you look at like the Dover demon.

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<v Speaker 2>He likes to throw a catchy name on things, so

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, he's very good at that.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the better known legends around here is the

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<v Speaker 4>Red Headed Hitchhiker, and that's on a stretch of Route

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<v Speaker 4>forty four in between se Conk and Rehobeth, and even

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00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:06.599
<v Speaker 4>you know, the investigators and whatnot have said that it

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00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.920
<v Speaker 4>started off as like a ghost sighting, and now any

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00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.160
<v Speaker 4>hitch hiker lore all gets contributed to the red Headed

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00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:16.839
<v Speaker 4>Hitchhiker as like added on, like oh yeah, and if

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00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.400
<v Speaker 4>you shut your lights off and keep your horn three

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00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.559
<v Speaker 4>times and turn you know, like any hitchhiker lore anywhere

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00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:25.759
<v Speaker 4>suddenly becomes the same here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the red Headed Hitchhiker though, that's that's interesting.

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00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.119
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, it's supposed to appear in your car. It

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00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.920
<v Speaker 4>started off I think the earliest ones were that he

295
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:43.000
<v Speaker 4>would show up in your car, that your radio station

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00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:46.279
<v Speaker 4>would change, and then as time went on, more and

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00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.079
<v Speaker 4>more got attributed to him that were just kind of

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00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:53.759
<v Speaker 4>like knock off of other hitchhiking ghost lore. And it's

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00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:58.920
<v Speaker 4>always one of those you know, my friend's cousin's uncle.

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<v Speaker 3>This happened too. Yeah, oh yeah, the real direct.

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<v Speaker 2>Classic folklore friend of a friend.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:10.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah.

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00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh so this is also called the red Headed Hitchhiker

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<v Speaker 2>of Route forty four. Have you heard that before?

306
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:17.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so where's Route forty four? Sorry, I'm not local

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00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:24.079
<v Speaker 2>to Massachusetts.

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<v Speaker 4>Like, so it goes right through the Bridgewater Triangle, No

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00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:33.519
<v Speaker 4>surprise there, okay, And it is a kind of like

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<v Speaker 4>a minor highway, like it's two lanes, but sometimes it's

312
00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:42.559
<v Speaker 4>you know, with traffic lights and no center island, and

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<v Speaker 4>you can pretty much go from trying to think how

314
00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:47.960
<v Speaker 4>far north it goes, but it can take you pretty

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00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:50.039
<v Speaker 4>much all the way down into Rhode Island. And so

316
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.680
<v Speaker 4>it's a long stretch and covers pretty much that's the

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00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.839
<v Speaker 4>whole entirety of the Bridgewater Triangle and a little bit

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<v Speaker 4>beyond that. And then there's also old forty four because

319
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:03.960
<v Speaker 4>they added to it and improved it.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's even I don't think there's.

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00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:08.880
<v Speaker 4>Any law in relation to that, other than when you

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00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:12.119
<v Speaker 4>get directions from some people they say forty four and

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00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:13.000
<v Speaker 4>they mean the other one.

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00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:15.359
<v Speaker 3>But that's neither here nor there.

325
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.400
<v Speaker 2>But it's too it's math in this episode.

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<v Speaker 5>But so it seems like even though I hadn't heard

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<v Speaker 5>of the place, and you only found out about it

328
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.839
<v Speaker 5>twenty years ago. It sounds like there is a lot

329
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:35.440
<v Speaker 5>of law surrounding the place and a lot of paranormalists

330
00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:38.720
<v Speaker 5>know about the Bridgewater trying do you get a lot

331
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.839
<v Speaker 5>of visitors there and legend troopers people coming from all

332
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.400
<v Speaker 5>around the globe to check it out and test things out.

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00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:52.640
<v Speaker 4>I don't know how many people come from out of state.

334
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:55.839
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure there are some, but there's a lot of local.

335
00:19:55.640 --> 00:20:02.200
<v Speaker 4>Ghost hunting haunted tours, and everyone's trying to, you know,

336
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:09.400
<v Speaker 4>search every old building they can find. There's several mystical

337
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.359
<v Speaker 4>rocks in the area. Is another thing that we have

338
00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:18.440
<v Speaker 4>a lot of. There's Dighton Rock, There's Profile Rock. There's

339
00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.480
<v Speaker 4>Anawon Rock, which is kind of like Anaon Rock. I

340
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.000
<v Speaker 4>think is the one that is probably the most ghostly

341
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:31.359
<v Speaker 4>and has the most legend around it. Dighton Rock is

342
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.680
<v Speaker 4>more mysterious carvings and no one knows what it is.

343
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:40.079
<v Speaker 4>And then Profile Rock is one of those just natural

344
00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:43.839
<v Speaker 4>formations that look like someone's face and people attribute it

345
00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:47.640
<v Speaker 4>to you know, part of metacomics, curse or or some

346
00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:51.599
<v Speaker 4>other you know, mystical thing, and it's just a rock.

347
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:52.279
<v Speaker 3>That looks like a face.

348
00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:54.759
<v Speaker 5>Could do you, But I took a bit more about

349
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.039
<v Speaker 5>those commings because I've seen a few photographs and I'm

350
00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.799
<v Speaker 5>wondering what the story is in the claims behind those.

351
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:03.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.960
<v Speaker 4>So it's called Dighton Rock and there's it's a sizeable rock.

353
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.519
<v Speaker 4>They've actually built like a kind of gazebo around it,

354
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:16.240
<v Speaker 4>and there's all sorts of carvings on it, and some

355
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.440
<v Speaker 4>look like faces, some look like maybe some sort of

356
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:24.799
<v Speaker 4>script of some kind, but it's essentially indecipherable. No one

357
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:26.559
<v Speaker 4>really knows who did it. No one knows where the

358
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:29.319
<v Speaker 4>carvings came from. No one knows what it says. And

359
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:34.119
<v Speaker 4>there's a few they're not even sure if and like

360
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:36.960
<v Speaker 4>if there if it is language or what language, what

361
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.039
<v Speaker 4>language it is. Some say it is, you know, wamp

362
00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:43.920
<v Speaker 4>and O Egg, which is the indigenous tribe of the area.

363
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.519
<v Speaker 4>Some people think it's Portuguese, which I find very strange

364
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.920
<v Speaker 4>because I can't really understand.

365
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:55.839
<v Speaker 3>Why that would be. There's some speculation that it's like.

366
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:02.920
<v Speaker 4>Norse ruins, because the the Norse were known kind of

367
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.559
<v Speaker 4>cross the ocean and be in this area somewhat. And

368
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:07.960
<v Speaker 4>and then there's some people that kind of say, you know,

369
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.960
<v Speaker 4>it's like one on top of the other, and so

370
00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:16.680
<v Speaker 4>it's it's completely unclear yeah, what it is or why

371
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:20.319
<v Speaker 4>it's there, but it's it's a really interesting You can

372
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:23.920
<v Speaker 4>find pictures of it all over of the carving, and

373
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:28.680
<v Speaker 4>it is just kind of in discard, you know, indecipable scribblings.

374
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, those are all very different things that you're.

375
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:39.640
<v Speaker 2>There's an extensive history of of of hoaxes and fake Norse,

376
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:44.519
<v Speaker 2>fake Celtic, all these sort of fake Hebrew like, just

377
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:46.720
<v Speaker 2>so many of these things. And I noticed that, uh,

378
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.880
<v Speaker 2>friend of the show Ken Fader uh included an entry.

379
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:53.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't have this to hand, but he included an

380
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:57.559
<v Speaker 2>entry in his book called the Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology,

381
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:02.000
<v Speaker 2>So he might he might be interesting to talk to

382
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.000
<v Speaker 2>you about that one. But I mean, that is it

383
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:11.119
<v Speaker 2>is fascinating how many let's call them Europeans I have

384
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:15.240
<v Speaker 2>decided to sort of extend the archaeological record through their

385
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:16.319
<v Speaker 2>own creativity.

386
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, this everybody's got a theory about something.

387
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Most of the time it's kind of just from yeah,

388
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:28.440
<v Speaker 3>just kind of nonsense.

389
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.960
<v Speaker 4>And I always say it's the come on, bro explanation

390
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:34.759
<v Speaker 4>where when you question them, they just want to like

391
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:39.839
<v Speaker 4>not have to explain their rationale. And the other the

392
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:43.119
<v Speaker 4>other rock that I find even more interesting is Anawan

393
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:49.839
<v Speaker 4>Rock and that's in Freetown State Forest, and it is

394
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.920
<v Speaker 4>kind of directly relates back to the original like lore

395
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:59.640
<v Speaker 4>of how the you know, the Bridgewater Triangle became like

396
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:02.440
<v Speaker 4>a hot bed or cursed or whatever you want to

397
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:06.279
<v Speaker 4>call it. So Annawan was kind of like one of

398
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:12.279
<v Speaker 4>Metacomet's uh lieutenants, and Metacomet had already been killed.

399
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.519
<v Speaker 3>They cut it, They drawn and quartered him and cut.

400
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.799
<v Speaker 4>His head off and put his head on a spike

401
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.759
<v Speaker 4>outside of the.

402
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Fort in Plymouth.

403
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:25.480
<v Speaker 4>And then they had tracked down Annawan and his war

404
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:30.000
<v Speaker 4>band to this area of ana Wan Rock and he

405
00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:33.920
<v Speaker 4>surrendered to half. His name right here in front of me,

406
00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:39.599
<v Speaker 4>Benjamin Church, and uh so his his people surrendered and

407
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.480
<v Speaker 4>he was killed beheaded. His head also went on a pike.

408
00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:47.599
<v Speaker 3>And then the indigenous people that did surrender were.

409
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.319
<v Speaker 2>Separation of Church and Steak.

410
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:56.480
<v Speaker 3>And that rock.

411
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:03.720
<v Speaker 4>I mean, people people claim to see campfires here, war drums.

412
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:08.400
<v Speaker 4>People have said they've caught EVPs that were in native

413
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:10.720
<v Speaker 4>wamp and no Egg language, which I don't know how

414
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:16.640
<v Speaker 4>they know that, but that one. I know people personally

415
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:20.079
<v Speaker 4>have gone out ghost hunting there and you know, kind

416
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:23.759
<v Speaker 4>of done their little YouTube shows and whatnot, and they

417
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.119
<v Speaker 4>kind of always, you know, it's just like every other

418
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:28.720
<v Speaker 4>ghost hunting you know, there's some noise that you can't

419
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.279
<v Speaker 4>really hear that they freak out about.

420
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:32.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so what was that?

421
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:38.160
<v Speaker 2>What was that was that? Yeah, we've said the word

422
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:40.640
<v Speaker 2>lores so many times. I guess I should mention that

423
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:46.920
<v Speaker 2>I first, I believe, heard about this topic through the

424
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:52.079
<v Speaker 2>podcast Lore back in maybe twenty fifteen. Oh sure, yeah, yeah,

425
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:56.440
<v Speaker 2>And I remember this is so weird. I remember specifically

426
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:59.119
<v Speaker 2>I had just found. I guess it was twenty sixteen.

427
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.359
<v Speaker 2>I'd found. I was on a business trip in Austin

428
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.400
<v Speaker 2>and I was just wandering around the streets of Austin

429
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.519
<v Speaker 2>late at night and listening to that. And that was

430
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:10.240
<v Speaker 2>a pretty creepy episode because they got into that whole thing,

431
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:17.519
<v Speaker 2>the story of Bill something what is his name? Uh?

432
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.359
<v Speaker 2>He the guy he was a welder who Bill Russo,

433
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:27.240
<v Speaker 2>who is walking out at night and here he sees

434
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:31.079
<v Speaker 2>something and it makes these strange words at him and

435
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:32.799
<v Speaker 2>guy walking his dog.

436
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:34.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it's.

437
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.279
<v Speaker 2>It's like the the e want e Wan it is

438
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.880
<v Speaker 2>like he ultimately decides that it's you know, we want you.

439
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.559
<v Speaker 2>It's it's super creat it's a very creepy story.

440
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:48.839
<v Speaker 4>It is so uh and he is from and some

441
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.680
<v Speaker 4>people say that was a puck wedgie.

442
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:53.319
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, and which we should probably define.

443
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.519
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, so that was in Marshfield.

444
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:03.480
<v Speaker 4>So that is probably about thirty minutes where I am

445
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.680
<v Speaker 4>sitting right now, because there's no real good direct route there,

446
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:10.119
<v Speaker 4>but you would have to go down forty four to

447
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.599
<v Speaker 4>get over there. And that's so forty four really is

448
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.119
<v Speaker 4>kind of like you know that the almost like the

449
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:19.039
<v Speaker 4>spinal cord of the Bridgewater Triangle, like because it is

450
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:22.839
<v Speaker 4>just kind of right in the middle. And yeah, so

451
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.000
<v Speaker 4>it was basically this guy was out walking his dog

452
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:31.960
<v Speaker 4>and a creature stepped out of the woods and he

453
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.640
<v Speaker 4>said it was about three feet tall, kind of dark

454
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:39.759
<v Speaker 4>brown hair and like gray smooth skin, and it was

455
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:44.279
<v Speaker 4>speaking to him. You you got pretty much exactly how

456
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:47.680
<v Speaker 4>he phrased it, like E one two and I think

457
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:48.279
<v Speaker 4>the other one.

458
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:51.599
<v Speaker 3>Was like here, yeah, yeah, here, that's what I was like.

459
00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:53.160
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't like come here, but it wasn't that.

460
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.480
<v Speaker 4>So some people think it's a Puckwodgie. Puck Wedgies are

461
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:05.119
<v Speaker 4>kind of like the you know, the local sports team

462
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:09.920
<v Speaker 4>of cryptids around here, even like, but it's also weird

463
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:15.759
<v Speaker 4>because it's such a strange cryptid that even like local

464
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:19.039
<v Speaker 4>people don't really know about puck wedges. It's not real

465
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:23.119
<v Speaker 4>common knowledge. They're kind of known as tricksters. Some say

466
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Speaker 4>they're like more evil, and some say they're just kind

467
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:32.319
<v Speaker 4>of like pranksters. When I first heard about them, I

468
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:34.240
<v Speaker 4>was trying to look them up online and I couldn't

469
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:38.200
<v Speaker 4>even find, let alone photos. I couldn't even find artwork

470
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:41.839
<v Speaker 4>depictions of them. It's just it's a weird cryptid. There's

471
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:43.039
<v Speaker 4>not a lot of.

472
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:45.839
<v Speaker 3>Footage, you know.

473
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.640
<v Speaker 4>You know there's no classic bigfoot type photo of a

474
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.160
<v Speaker 4>puck wedgy right well, you know.

475
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.480
<v Speaker 2>It fits into that sort of I don't know. It

476
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:56.039
<v Speaker 2>almost feels like a special class of these things where

477
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a creature as I understand it, that is from

478
00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:04.240
<v Speaker 2>indigenous lore, but Europeans have decided to turn it into

479
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>a cryptid instead of folklore or spirit or whatever else

480
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:12.079
<v Speaker 2>it might be, So it's hybridized. I guess in a way. Culturally,

481
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:16.680
<v Speaker 2>What does that make sink syncretic. Yeah, yeah, well that too.

482
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:20.319
<v Speaker 2>But I was just thinking it's it's not always a

483
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:22.960
<v Speaker 2>one way street. These the stories, you know, they mix

484
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:27.960
<v Speaker 2>both ways, and you know, so which frustrates me because

485
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I know this is a kind of a complicated topic,

486
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:36.279
<v Speaker 2>but there's native lore around the creatures that have now

487
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:41.039
<v Speaker 2>become fully recognized as Bigfoot now and it's even changing

488
00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:44.599
<v Speaker 2>the way the indigenous people speak about Like so it's

489
00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:47.039
<v Speaker 2>they got their peanut, butter and chocolate all mixed up,

490
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.920
<v Speaker 2>is what I'm saying. This is like you can't unresis exactly.

491
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:54.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

492
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:59.200
<v Speaker 4>So they're they're the other local legend that is kind

493
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:04.599
<v Speaker 4>of integrated into all of the Bridgewater Triangle. So in

494
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 4>the center of the Bridgewaters is the Hackamock Swamp and

495
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:12.240
<v Speaker 4>that's why it's called the hacka Mock Triangle sometimes and uh,

496
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.319
<v Speaker 4>the Wampao. I believe that there was a giant shape

497
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.480
<v Speaker 4>shifting snake that can control lightning called Michigashi.

498
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.279
<v Speaker 3>Oh I'm sure I'm not getting that pronunciation correct.

499
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.200
<v Speaker 4>And that's another thing that's attributed the Bridgewater Triangles giant snakes,

500
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.799
<v Speaker 4>and you know, it's it is a complete Bengo card

501
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:32.519
<v Speaker 4>of paranormal stuff.

502
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.160
<v Speaker 5>Oh, I'm wondering how Satanic rituals got mixed in with

503
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:40.440
<v Speaker 5>all of this. Is there a story to that.

504
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.759
<v Speaker 3>The nineteen eighties nineteen eighties panic, So the.

505
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:50.240
<v Speaker 4>Whole Satanic cult thing is really based out of the

506
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:51.720
<v Speaker 4>Satanic Panic.

507
00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:55.640
<v Speaker 3>And the fact that there are parts of.

508
00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.319
<v Speaker 4>The area that are are pretty secluded, like the Freetown

509
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:05.000
<v Speaker 4>State Forests one specifically, and you know, when people did

510
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.000
<v Speaker 4>shady things, they would go to places that were you

511
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:09.319
<v Speaker 4>didn't run into a lot of people.

512
00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:10.720
<v Speaker 3>So there were there were.

513
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:15.079
<v Speaker 4>Murders there is there was a we had a serial

514
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.119
<v Speaker 4>killer in the area for.

515
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:20.839
<v Speaker 3>A while and they never determined who that was. But

516
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.119
<v Speaker 3>there was one specific.

517
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:28.559
<v Speaker 4>Kind of like the you know, the I don't hate

518
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:32.160
<v Speaker 4>the same celebrity. But the biggest case that was related

519
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:35.559
<v Speaker 4>to the Satanic cult was.

520
00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.039
<v Speaker 3>Doreen Levec and this is like nineteen seventy nine.

521
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:46.680
<v Speaker 4>She was found behind the bleachers at the Fall River

522
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.799
<v Speaker 4>High School And now Fall River to me is a

523
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:55.000
<v Speaker 4>little bit outside that triangle, but you know it's close enough, and.

524
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how thick you make the lines, that's.

525
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:05.160
<v Speaker 4>Exactly right, right right, And she was bound and was

526
00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 4>a known prostitute and the two people that were arrested

527
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.359
<v Speaker 4>in connection with her murder were Robin Murphy and Carl Drew,

528
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:21.720
<v Speaker 4>and there were reports from other people that they partook

529
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:23.079
<v Speaker 4>in satanic rituals.

530
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:26.200
<v Speaker 3>With these two. There were certain.

531
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:34.200
<v Speaker 4>Like structures found in the Freetown State Forest that people

532
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.559
<v Speaker 4>had built, and the detectives at the time that they

533
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:41.079
<v Speaker 4>were satanic in nature, which is really interesting because it

534
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:42.839
<v Speaker 4>made me think back when I was looking into this

535
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:44.319
<v Speaker 4>and maybe think back to when I was a kid.

536
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.400
<v Speaker 4>We used to like build clubhouses in the woods all

537
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.519
<v Speaker 4>the time, and I was like a big metal head too,

538
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.519
<v Speaker 4>So it's like, was it really satanic or was it

539
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:58.200
<v Speaker 4>just some kids in you know, uh, messing around with

540
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.880
<v Speaker 4>dark imagery and like into iron Maid and stuff like that.

541
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:04.440
<v Speaker 3>And so I really think it's there.

542
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:09.440
<v Speaker 4>Were a few murders with questionable people involved, and it

543
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:16.680
<v Speaker 4>was the nineteen eighties, so the the investigators just made

544
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:19.720
<v Speaker 4>of a satanic cult. One of them even claimed that

545
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:25.319
<v Speaker 4>he went undercover into one of their satanic rituals, but

546
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:27.839
<v Speaker 4>he said it was pretty much just like chanting and

547
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:31.079
<v Speaker 4>you know that sort of thing. We even had the

548
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.920
<v Speaker 4>cattle beat relations were like involved in this too.

549
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:35.640
<v Speaker 3>That was one of the last like.

550
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.720
<v Speaker 4>Animal related things they found in the nineteen eighties. I

551
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:43.599
<v Speaker 4>think it was like a dozen cows that were found

552
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:48.440
<v Speaker 4>dead just outside the Freetown State Forest, and of course

553
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:49.640
<v Speaker 4>they had no blood.

554
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:53.680
<v Speaker 5>Very common.

555
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:58.200
<v Speaker 2>It's a hodge podge of all sorts of things going

556
00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:58.680
<v Speaker 2>on up there.

557
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like I said, that's I mean, there are big

558
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 4>foot sightings, there are UFO sidings, and giant thunderbirds, and

559
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:16.239
<v Speaker 4>some of these things really have I mean, the thunderbird

560
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:20.840
<v Speaker 4>to me, I think is one of the easiest to

561
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.280
<v Speaker 4>kind of debunk and when you explain it, when I

562
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:27.159
<v Speaker 4>pitch my explanation for it, people who believe in it

563
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:29.599
<v Speaker 4>just kind of, you know, dismiss it out of hand.

564
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.920
<v Speaker 4>But we have a very large bird in this era

565
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:39.880
<v Speaker 4>called the blue heron, and it stands about I don't

566
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 4>like the last time I saw when I was probably

567
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:44.079
<v Speaker 4>like three and a half feet.

568
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're pretty big.

569
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:49.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Yeah, they're huge, and they just kind of like

570
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.480
<v Speaker 4>chill in the water and grab fish, like you know,

571
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:56.639
<v Speaker 4>they kind of that ambush type predator thing. And the

572
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:58.800
<v Speaker 4>last time I saw when someone's like, oh, there's a

573
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.239
<v Speaker 4>blue heron and I'm like where, and they pointed, like

574
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:05.559
<v Speaker 4>fifteen yards away from me, like I was almost on

575
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:07.320
<v Speaker 4>top of it. Yeah, and I was just like, oh

576
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:09.239
<v Speaker 4>my god, like I didn't see it. There they're just

577
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:11.519
<v Speaker 4>sit so still, and that I could just see someone

578
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.480
<v Speaker 4>out in the swamp that disturbs one that you didn't

579
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:17.960
<v Speaker 4>even see and it just flies up out of nowhere.

580
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 3>And there right kind of.

581
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:21.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then your perception of how big they are

582
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:23.719
<v Speaker 2>all out of whack. Yeah, exactly.

583
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:25.519
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you're gonna be scared and you're gonna be like,

584
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:27.400
<v Speaker 4>oh my god, they're like thirty feet bit, you know.

585
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.360
<v Speaker 3>And it's it's especially once you get the wingspan in there.

586
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:35.559
<v Speaker 4>It's I think that's just such an obvious source of

587
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:39.880
<v Speaker 4>that legend that I mean that I can't even really

588
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.360
<v Speaker 4>take with any grain of It's just it's just silly.

589
00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:46.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know we I'm sure you you know the show.

590
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:50.119
<v Speaker 2>You know we are. So it's like we complain about

591
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:55.559
<v Speaker 2>how that ghosts are not a mystery ghost or an explanation.

592
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>The mystery is what's causing the effects, right that you're

593
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.519
<v Speaker 2>calling it go so uh and here I think this

594
00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:06.280
<v Speaker 2>bothers me even more when you attribute all these weird

595
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:11.079
<v Speaker 2>things to this geographical region. Is it a portal area,

596
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:14.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, is it it may be ultimately is it

597
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:19.760
<v Speaker 2>somebody writing it down? Because that but what what do

598
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:21.400
<v Speaker 2>you think? I mean, what do you think is going

599
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:25.639
<v Speaker 2>on here overall? Or is anything unusual going on there?

600
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:28.599
<v Speaker 3>I don't think anything unusual is going on at all.

601
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:30.719
<v Speaker 4>Like I am a fan of the show because I

602
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:37.639
<v Speaker 4>am very science minded person, and I just don't well,

603
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.559
<v Speaker 4>you know, the ghosting, the ghosts and the hauntings are

604
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:43.199
<v Speaker 4>you know, it's the same thing like every other haunting.

605
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't think there's anything unusual there. Like Dyton Rock.

606
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:49.400
<v Speaker 4>I mean that to me is an interesting part of

607
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.599
<v Speaker 4>it because yes, someone definitely carved something on that rock.

608
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:55.440
<v Speaker 4>What it is and who it is, that's really the

609
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:01.960
<v Speaker 4>interesting part of it. The UFOs I don't buy at all.

610
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:10.480
<v Speaker 4>And like I watched a there's a pretty solid documentary

611
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:15.840
<v Speaker 4>about the Bridgewater Triangle, but definitely from a believers standpoint. Yeah,

612
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.519
<v Speaker 4>And like some of the quotes from it were like, oh,

613
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:21.599
<v Speaker 4>these lights were moving. I mean they could have been

614
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:24.320
<v Speaker 4>planes or they could have been stars, but maybe not.

615
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:28.599
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, And then there was another guy that said,

616
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:32.559
<v Speaker 4>you know, these lights were moving around and then they

617
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:34.639
<v Speaker 4>turned into a plane and flew away.

618
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:40.440
<v Speaker 3>Yes, or it was a plane yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which

619
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:42.320
<v Speaker 3>is a really interesting thing is.

620
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:47.400
<v Speaker 4>We have Logan Airport, is the Boston airport that everybody

621
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:47.920
<v Speaker 4>knows about.

622
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:50.760
<v Speaker 3>There's one in Rhode Island called T. F. Green Now.

623
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Is that also known as Wolverine Airport?

624
00:37:53.840 --> 00:38:03.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, or or or Airport acts. Yeah, but there's

625
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:08.719
<v Speaker 3>a lot of small airports around here. Yeah, there's one

626
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:09.400
<v Speaker 3>in Plymouth.

627
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:14.159
<v Speaker 4>And so in the seventies, like late seventies, mid to

628
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:16.239
<v Speaker 4>late seventies was like when most of the UFO sidings

629
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.880
<v Speaker 4>were happening. And during that time, there was a Naval

630
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:27.039
<v Speaker 4>Air Force base in Weymouth. I mean there's air traffic

631
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:29.639
<v Speaker 4>out of there all the time. And I remember specifically

632
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:33.840
<v Speaker 4>as an experience of mine, I was in high school.

633
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 4>Me and a bunch of friends friends were out in

634
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:39.760
<v Speaker 4>the woods on a Saturday night, reading from our math

635
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:44.639
<v Speaker 4>books like all respectable teenagers do out in the woods,

636
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:47.559
<v Speaker 4>and we were kind of like laying on this Traine

637
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:49.519
<v Speaker 4>bridge just staring up at the sky and my friends

638
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:53.360
<v Speaker 4>like the stars are moving and after a few minutes

639
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:57.559
<v Speaker 4>there were just there were little lights everywhere just moving around,

640
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:02.079
<v Speaker 4>and it took us a wild piece together. But that weekend,

641
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:07.639
<v Speaker 4>there was a air show at the air Force base

642
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:10.519
<v Speaker 4>and we were literally under a holding pattern.

643
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:12.079
<v Speaker 3>For these planes that we're trying to land.

644
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:17.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's constantly lights in the sky that are moving around.

645
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:19.960
<v Speaker 4>Then it's just like if you don't really know about

646
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.159
<v Speaker 4>those airports and whatnot, it's very easy to just mistake

647
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:23.440
<v Speaker 4>them for.

648
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:26.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's like the Gulf Breeze UFO flap in the

649
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:29.880
<v Speaker 2>eighties was like it's literally across the bay from the

650
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:34.199
<v Speaker 2>Pensacola Air Station. I mean, yeah, amazingly they saw weird

651
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 2>lights in the sky every night. But it's happening right now,

652
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:43.440
<v Speaker 2>the New Jersey drone flap. It's absolutely ridiculous. Like everybody

653
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:47.599
<v Speaker 2>who studies this stuff, it's like, hey, this is not

654
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:50.519
<v Speaker 2>only is this a really common phenomena of a flap,

655
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:53.760
<v Speaker 2>but everything the media is doing feeds into it, like

656
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:58.719
<v Speaker 2>absolutely feeds into it. It's it's completely avoidable, and like

657
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.360
<v Speaker 2>literally none of these people who who frigging know better

658
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:06.639
<v Speaker 2>are incentivized in any way to calm the situation, Like

659
00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:09.400
<v Speaker 2>none of them are. The politicians are getting calls, so

660
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.119
<v Speaker 2>they're going to feed into it. The media is getting clicks,

661
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:14.920
<v Speaker 2>so they're going to feed into it. It literally happened

662
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:17.320
<v Speaker 2>in England at the heath Row area, Like was that

663
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:21.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. I like, it's this is not new.

664
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:25.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's it's a Battle of Los Angeles. It's

665
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:29.039
<v Speaker 2>it's it's all these things over and over and over again.

666
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.599
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, I hate It's true.

667
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I hate it so much.

668
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:38.000
<v Speaker 4>And my friends, my friends know that I'm a hard course,

669
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:42.400
<v Speaker 4>so you know, the second I walk in, they're like,

670
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:43.679
<v Speaker 4>I want to talk to you about the drowns and

671
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:47.159
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, oh, dear God, here we go, and and

672
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.800
<v Speaker 4>it's just leads to the most silly conversations where I'd

673
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 4>be like you hear what you're saying, right, And I'm like, listen,

674
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:55.000
<v Speaker 4>I haven't had a lot of time to look into it.

675
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:59.840
<v Speaker 3>I've been really busy. It's the holidays. The only thing

676
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:04.039
<v Speaker 3>I have heard is that the FAA have loosened the

677
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:05.559
<v Speaker 3>restrictions about flying drones at night.

678
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.679
<v Speaker 4>And my buddy's like, oh, but you know, there's these

679
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:12.800
<v Speaker 4>plasmoids and I'm like what And he's like plasmoids and I'm.

680
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 3>Like, or the f FAA just loosen the like why

681
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:18.280
<v Speaker 3>are you jumping to someone?

682
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:22.079
<v Speaker 2>Why do people think there's stealth drones from other countries,

683
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:26.199
<v Speaker 2>but they've got lights on them, Like like, why would

684
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:28.360
<v Speaker 2>you put lights on a stealth drone? That doesn't even

685
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.840
<v Speaker 2>make it? Like, oh my gosh. Anyway, people are foolish,

686
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.320
<v Speaker 2>and people are easily fool the drones going to see Yeah,

687
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:40.559
<v Speaker 2>a good point, right, they're disguised, they're disguised. But I

688
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:44.840
<v Speaker 2>just I find that all very I do. I wonder though,

689
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like I this is a sort of existential

690
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:50.519
<v Speaker 2>question for us as a show. Honestly, it's like we

691
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:54.239
<v Speaker 2>can help people and we can point out the you know, explanations,

692
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:57.559
<v Speaker 2>we can point out how to train yourself to think

693
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:01.440
<v Speaker 2>critically about this stuff, but we can stop people from

694
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:04.920
<v Speaker 2>still continuing to do these things and report these things

695
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.239
<v Speaker 2>and to like find the least likely explanation and glum

696
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:13.360
<v Speaker 2>onto it. And it's it's so frustrating. It's hard. I

697
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:15.679
<v Speaker 2>want better of us.

698
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:20.920
<v Speaker 5>All people need to have a falsifying experience really thing

699
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:22.760
<v Speaker 5>about some skepticism themselves.

700
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.039
<v Speaker 4>That's the thing about the Bridge Wide Triangle is like

701
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.239
<v Speaker 4>I honestly believe that people don't want to think about

702
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:33.719
<v Speaker 4>it rationally. They want it to be real and they

703
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.960
<v Speaker 4>want the drones. They want the spooky story or a

704
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.519
<v Speaker 4>conspiracy or you know, giant thun.

705
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:43.320
<v Speaker 3>Their birds or rabid deaf dogs or whatever.

706
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:46.280
<v Speaker 4>They want that story to be real instead of just

707
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:48.800
<v Speaker 4>being like, well, hang on, like I mean, how big

708
00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:50.000
<v Speaker 4>was the giant death dog?

709
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:53.639
<v Speaker 3>You know? Are we just talking a bowl mastiff?

710
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:53.880
<v Speaker 2>You know?

711
00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:00.320
<v Speaker 3>And they just I honestly don't think they want it

712
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:01.360
<v Speaker 3>to be anything else.

713
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.119
<v Speaker 5>Absolutely, people want to believe. But I think we're gonna

714
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:08.880
<v Speaker 5>have to wrap things up here. And Andy, you're listener

715
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:10.920
<v Speaker 5>of the show, so you know where I'm going now.

716
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.760
<v Speaker 5>I want to wrap up with the final question because

717
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:17.079
<v Speaker 5>this is your first time on the show. What's your

718
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:17.760
<v Speaker 5>favorite monster?

719
00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:19.679
<v Speaker 3>Yep?

720
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.840
<v Speaker 4>So I have been thinking about this since you guys

721
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:25.280
<v Speaker 4>invited me on the show, because I'm like, oh my god,

722
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:30.800
<v Speaker 4>they're going to ask me the question, and so then

723
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:33.639
<v Speaker 4>I've really been thinking about it, and I'm like, you know,

724
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.599
<v Speaker 4>I kind of what I base my whole company around

725
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.639
<v Speaker 4>is kind of you know, support local businesses, and you know,

726
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.320
<v Speaker 4>you know, local business and artists and musicians. So I

727
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:46.360
<v Speaker 4>gotta I gotta pick the local guy. You know, it's

728
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:47.320
<v Speaker 4>got to be a puckwadgie.

729
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:47.880
<v Speaker 3>All right?

730
00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:52.480
<v Speaker 4>Oh, there we go kind of Yeah, I mean, I

731
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:55.199
<v Speaker 4>kind of feel like they are true New Englanders where

732
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:58.360
<v Speaker 4>some people think they're just pranksters and other people think

733
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:00.719
<v Speaker 4>they're evil. There's a reason why we call ourselves massholes.

734
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:03.199
<v Speaker 4>And you know, I just feel like it's a New

735
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:04.079
<v Speaker 4>Englander through.

736
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:08.480
<v Speaker 1>And through, nice, good choice and you know.

737
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:14.840
<v Speaker 2>He wants you, kre Ker. I think it's a here here.

738
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

739
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, Andy, thanks so much for talking with us about this.

740
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.239
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna You've given us a lot to unpack. We're

741
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:23.760
<v Speaker 2>gonna we're gonna have to come back to some of

742
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:25.119
<v Speaker 2>these and dive a little deeper on them.

743
00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:30.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Oh, thank you for having me. It was absolute pleasure. Monster.

744
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:35.280
<v Speaker 2>You've been listening to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters.

745
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:39.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm Blake Smith and I'm Karen Stolsner. You've been listening

746
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:42.679
<v Speaker 2>to a conversation with Andy Driscoll introducing the Hakamock or

747
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Bridgewater Triangle, a region of Massachusetts. Mystery. Is it especially

748
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:52.679
<v Speaker 2>mysterious or just the results of selection bias? Who can say, well, truthfully,

749
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:55.119
<v Speaker 2>probably us. But we'll be going deeper on that later.

750
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:57.239
<v Speaker 2>For now, we've put a pin in the map and

751
00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:01.239
<v Speaker 2>we'll be digging in more in future episodes. Around the

752
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:05.000
<v Speaker 2>world people report monsters, but are they real? Join the

753
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Detective of the Impossible, Joe Nickel as he walks you

754
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:12.880
<v Speaker 2>through investigations to reveal often surprising natural explanations behind some

755
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:16.280
<v Speaker 2>of the most famous cryptids and legendary animals ever reported.

756
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:21.519
<v Speaker 2>Using scientific skepticism, meticulous fieldwork in historical deep dives, Joe

757
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:24.719
<v Speaker 2>Nichols seeks out hidden clues and real world candidates that

758
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:29.000
<v Speaker 2>sometimes reveal that even the most unlikely monster stories may

759
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:33.159
<v Speaker 2>have a basis in reality. The Science of Monsters is

760
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:36.440
<v Speaker 2>the first book from Monster House LLC, the publisher of

761
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:40.400
<v Speaker 2>science shows, Monster Talk and in research of The revised

762
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:43.440
<v Speaker 2>edition is now on sale and includes corrections and suggestions

763
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:47.280
<v Speaker 2>from you, our listeners and now readers. Sales of The

764
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.159
<v Speaker 2>Science of Monsters directly benefits Monster House and its podcasts

765
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.159
<v Speaker 2>thanks to the generosity of its author. Pick up The

766
00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Revised Science of Monsters today at Amazon dot com, Available

767
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:02.679
<v Speaker 2>in paperback and kindle aditions. Unless You're Talks theme music

768
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:06.440
<v Speaker 2>is by Pete Stealing Monkeys and remember he wand you

769
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:09.679
<v Speaker 2>he want you Care Care.

770
00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:57.920
<v Speaker 1>This has been a Monster House presentation