Speaker 1: In a world of deceit, telling the truth is a
Speaker 1: revolutionary act. It's the David Knight Show.
Speaker 2: As the clock strikes thirteen, it's Friday, the twenty fourth
Speaker 2: of August. You're of our lord, twenty twenty six. Well,
Speaker 2: we're going to take a look at some news besides
Speaker 2: the war. But of course, the time is running out
Speaker 2: on Donald Trump. According to the law law, which laws
Speaker 2: are we going to obey? You know, there is this
Speaker 2: law that was put in. Of course, they've already ignored
Speaker 2: the constitutional requirements for having a war. They've ignored God's law,
Speaker 2: moral law. There is another law that they probably will
Speaker 2: wind up ignoring as well, and that is that he
Speaker 2: can only you know, go unilaterally into war for sixty
Speaker 2: days and before he gets congressional approval. So we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about that as well as some other strange
Speaker 2: and entertaining news first.
Speaker 3: Then we got a couple of great interviews coming up
Speaker 3: for you. We'll be right back. Well.
Speaker 2: Copyright law. Copyright law in Japan is very strictly enforced,
Speaker 2: and of course here in America it is as well,
Speaker 2: but not as strictly as in Japan. Here in America
Speaker 2: they use it frequently for censorship purposes. I pointed out
Speaker 2: the very first censorship that info Wars got was the
Speaker 2: report that I did about the creation of the Federal
Speaker 2: Reserve on the one hundredth anniversary, and it used a
Speaker 2: few clips from Its Wonderful Life because there were bank runs,
Speaker 2: there was a banker character that was patterned after JP
Speaker 2: Morgan and some other things. But there was a lot
Speaker 2: of commentary in it as well, and those clips were
Speaker 2: part of fair use, as well as the fact that
Speaker 2: the movie itself had been on YouTube for several years
Speaker 2: had over a million views. That's where I got the clips,
Speaker 2: by the way, And so it is an interesting case
Speaker 2: that happened here in Japan. A man is being sent
Speaker 2: to jail for publishing movie spoilers. He described a Godzilla
Speaker 2: movie in too much detail. Now, when I saw that,
Speaker 2: I thought, how much detail could there possibly be? And
Speaker 2: a Godzilla movie? And I remember this one scene. I
Speaker 2: thought it was a horrible movie. I don't remember anything
Speaker 2: about it except one scene. It was called One Crazy Summer.
Speaker 2: Maybe you've seen it, and there was one scene in it.
Speaker 2: I'll set it up. There's a character in it and
Speaker 2: he's they've got this big business meeting it's kind of
Speaker 2: a party and they have a big real estate project
Speaker 2: that is coming up, and they've got some Japanese investors
Speaker 2: that are there, and so they have a really big
Speaker 2: model city that they have set up to show what
Speaker 2: the project's going to look like. Well, this guy goes
Speaker 2: back into a trailer and he finds this Godzilla costume.
Speaker 2: He puts it on, he's playing around with it. Then
Speaker 2: he realizes he's got to be back in the park.
Speaker 2: There's something he's got to do. I don't really remember
Speaker 2: the movie that well remember why he had to go back,
Speaker 2: But he couldn't get the costume off. So he goes
Speaker 2: back to the party, and that's where it picks up
Speaker 2: with this clip. There's a guy sitting in a wheelchair.
Speaker 2: He's got a cigar and he's done with it and
Speaker 2: he flicks it and the cigar goes inside the open
Speaker 2: mouth of the god Zola costume and sets it on fire.
Speaker 2: Now the Godzilla character is smoking out of the mouth.
Speaker 2: It comes running out of the bushes. Now he's going
Speaker 2: through the model city. He's Tommy, looks like the real
Speaker 2: thing to me, And the Japanese guest is very impressed
Speaker 2: and very happy with that he thought they did that
Speaker 2: in his honor. So the question is, you know, these
Speaker 2: Godzilla movies are so much alike, how did he do
Speaker 2: a spoiler on that? Well, his offense was running a
Speaker 2: website the published detail spoiler heavy write ups of popular films.
Speaker 2: So the two films that they singled out were Godzilla
Speaker 2: minus one another one that covered the Overlord anime adaptation,
Speaker 2: which I think about that either.
Speaker 4: Sada certainly wasn't talking about the previous Godzilla movie when
Speaker 4: he gave me a spoiler ridden thing that got him
Speaker 4: eighteen months in jail.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: The Japanese law prohibits creating a quote new work by
Speaker 2: making creative modifications to the original while preserving its essential characteristics.
Speaker 2: So obviously this is very subjective. Anybody that does a
Speaker 2: movie review, the court could sit there and say you
Speaker 2: gave too many details. You know, are we supposed to
Speaker 2: know what that is? By the way, I looked at
Speaker 2: this and I thought Roger Ebert went and last a
Speaker 2: day in Japan. He was Corsisco and Ebert, the two
Speaker 2: guys that had thumbs up back in the day when
Speaker 2: I used to follow movie reviews because of the store
Speaker 2: that we had Roger Ebert won a Pulitzer Prize, But
Speaker 2: I've never seen a film critic that was worse than
Speaker 2: Roger Ebert in terms of giving the whole plot line away.
Speaker 2: I mean, he just everything that he'd Every review he
Speaker 2: did was a spoiler.
Speaker 3: So mentioned this before.
Speaker 4: I had thought that he was jailed for releasing spoilers
Speaker 4: about an upcoming movie, Godzilla movie, but I didn't realize
Speaker 4: it was one that had already come out, that has
Speaker 4: been out for a long time. Anyone could get this information.
Speaker 2: Anyway, in case you haven't seen the movie already, says
Speaker 2: preserving essential characteristics is exactly the kind of vague standard
Speaker 2: that gives prosecutors wide latitude to decide which writers get
Speaker 2: charged and which ones don't. The key part of this,
Speaker 2: of course, is the fact that he made money, made
Speaker 2: a good bit of money, and twenty twenty three AD
Speaker 2: revenue reportedly brought him in two hundred and thirty nine
Speaker 2: thousand dollars. Maybe we should start to hew movie reviews
Speaker 2: rust the jail time here. Mondization is the hook the
Speaker 2: copyright enforcement loves, but the logic cuts further than anybody
Speaker 2: involved seems willing to admit. Most professional entertainment journalism runs ads.
Speaker 2: Most reviewers and recaps described the plot. The question is
Speaker 2: not whether his site was tasteful, but whether or not
Speaker 2: the Japanese state should be deciding how much of a
Speaker 2: description is too much then telling people that disagree with them.
Speaker 3: So again.
Speaker 2: The reality, however, is that we've been failing people for
Speaker 2: an unconstitutional, un war on drugs for smoking weeds. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying prohibition
Speaker 2: is a horrible idea. And so that's been rescheduled, I
Speaker 2: pointed out yesterday by Donald Trump. Actually it wasn't Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: It was announced by his Attorney General, Todd blanche Yes.
Speaker 4: Before we move on from the copyright thing in Japan,
Speaker 4: it's just gonna comment that one thing I'd seen with
Speaker 4: all these new tweets from Japan with the new translation
Speaker 4: feature that they added to Twitter, is Japan has a
Speaker 4: weird obsession, fascination or not too much respect. They have
Speaker 4: a weird aversion to piracy in any form, like they
Speaker 4: have this too much respect for the copyright laws.
Speaker 2: I guess I've used a lot of respect you and
Speaker 2: I've lost a lot of respect between the what we
Speaker 2: seen in terms of censorship and the fact that they
Speaker 2: have gone so far overboard, and I've seen so many
Speaker 2: abuses of copyright, especially we go back and look and
Speaker 2: Lance and I were talking about this earlier. Go back
Speaker 2: and look at the life story of John Fogerty of
Speaker 2: CCR Credence clutter Water Revival, and you'll see an unbelievable
Speaker 2: abuse of copyright. But yeah, somebody bought his catalog and
Speaker 2: then sued him whenever we would sing or write a
Speaker 2: new song. I'm sorry, you sound too much like yourself,
Speaker 2: you know, copyright infringement. But what were you going to say, Lance.
Speaker 4: Just that it seems from what I've been seeing in
Speaker 4: these conversations that they view piracy is bad or even
Speaker 4: worse than shoplifting. And yeah, it's very foreign to the
Speaker 4: American mind.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things you were saying was a
Speaker 2: lot of times, you know, people will try something and
Speaker 2: then buy it in order to have a copy of
Speaker 2: it themselves. It was really kind of the paradigm of
Speaker 2: music until YouTube became the greatest violator of copyrights ever.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: That was the other thing that bothered me about the
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful lie. It used to be a situation.
Speaker 2: Everyone could hear music for free on the radio, right,
Speaker 2: and that would kind of what your appetite. If you
Speaker 2: liked that song, you go out and buy a copy
Speaker 2: of it. And so the real issue to me is
Speaker 2: whether or not you can If you've got access to
Speaker 2: where you're going to be able to play that right
Speaker 2: away with a streaming service or with YouTube or something
Speaker 2: like that, you have no incentive to go out and
Speaker 2: buy it. And so that's really what has changed the
Speaker 2: landscape for people, I think. But I'm sure the big
Speaker 2: studios are still making money, you know, as they go
Speaker 2: through this stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a conversation about things that were made
Speaker 4: in Japan that weren't available in the US video game
Speaker 4: and someone put up a meme of give us stop
Speaker 4: pirating our game. Then the person responds, then sell it
Speaker 4: to me, and then the hang reach Outanese faces no,
Speaker 4: and the Japanese comments are like, what's the problem with this?
Speaker 4: If we aren't ready to sell it to you, then
Speaker 4: you can't see it, you can't play it, you can't
Speaker 4: do anything with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, different cultures, I guess.
Speaker 2: Anyway, going back to this marijuana thing, this was done
Speaker 2: by an announcement on Twitter. Now, why didn't we think
Speaker 2: of that one hundred years ago.
Speaker 3: With alcohol prohbition? Right?
Speaker 2: I mean they went to all the trouble of passing
Speaker 2: a constitutional amendment to get rid of alcohol prohibition, and
Speaker 2: they passed a constitutional amendment to have alcohol prohibition. The
Speaker 2: eighteenth created prohibition, the twenty first ended it for alcohol.
Speaker 2: Why did you have to have a constitutional amendment to
Speaker 2: start prohibition and to end prohbition? Now it's just done
Speaker 2: by the wave of a pen by the acting Attorney
Speaker 2: General and he announces it on social media.
Speaker 3: Isn't that nice?
Speaker 2: I guess we've got warp speed prohibition. Just just do
Speaker 2: it without any process, right. I wish we could prohibit
Speaker 2: things the warp speed vaccine. Unfortunately we can't prohibit that.
Speaker 2: They absolutely will not prohibit that, but they'll prohibit these
Speaker 2: other issues, moving it from a Schedule one to a
Speaker 2: Schedule three. So it does at least acknowledge. The federal
Speaker 2: government has been exaggerating marijuana's dangers ignoring his potential benefits
Speaker 2: for half a century, says Reason magazine. And it talked
Speaker 2: about half a century. It's been longer than that. It's
Speaker 2: going back to reefer madness. And we had Jeff Session,
Speaker 2: and who was Trump's first attorney general was probably he
Speaker 2: was very heavily involved with the big case of reefer madness.
Speaker 2: I've never seen anybody more obsessed with it. I thought
Speaker 2: that Jeff Sessions was going to be a good Attorney general,
Speaker 2: frankly because he had come after Panera Leon Panetta. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: not Panera, but Panetta, Leon Panetta, Lion Leon Panetta, who
Speaker 2: was saying, you know, he's engaging him and saying, you're
Speaker 2: not going to put troops in Syria? Are you not
Speaker 2: about getting our approoval? Right, Well, we'll let you know
Speaker 2: what we decide. We'll talk to the UN, we'll talk
Speaker 2: to NATO, We'll let you know what we decide. He goes, well,
Speaker 2: you've been a congress man. That's not how that works,
Speaker 2: you know. And he was kind of weak in terms
Speaker 2: of he's kind of like whining about it, but it
Speaker 2: was still he exposed the fact that Lion Leon was
Speaker 2: going to do whatever he wanted, and he was absolutely
Speaker 2: contemptuous of the Constitution and of congressional approval for their war.
Speaker 2: But so I thought he was going to be a
Speaker 2: better attorney general than he was. Turns out that he
Speaker 2: didn't have all that much respect for the law when
Speaker 2: he became attorney general. It was just whatever he wanted.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: If it was something that he wanted, then he would
Speaker 2: follow the longer procedure, but if not, he'd forget about it. Well,
Speaker 2: we have some new Epstein news. It turns out that
Speaker 2: there is a woman who was a Swiss finalist in
Speaker 2: the Miss Switzerland beauty contest, and she received a personal
Speaker 2: invitation from Donald Trump to come participate in a beauty contest,
Speaker 2: a beauty contest that was organized, she says, by Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2: She was brutally sexually assaulted, she says, and thirty three
Speaker 2: years later, she was twenty two when she came. Thirty
Speaker 2: three years later, she is filing a lawsuit. She says
Speaker 2: she wants to force Trump to testify. She said that
Speaker 2: he said to her stay quiet and I'll take care
Speaker 2: of you. So there's going to be a lot of
Speaker 2: information coming out about that. I bet Beatrice k e
Speaker 2: u l cool. Anyway, she wasn't cool with what he did,
Speaker 2: So we'll see what happens with that. Meanwhile, as I
Speaker 2: pointed out yesterday, the House Oversight Committee, Republicans are split
Speaker 2: over whether or not to give a pardon to Gallaine Maxwell.
Speaker 2: And this is truly amazing. You know, we're looking at
Speaker 2: the amount of money that they spent against the Republicans
Speaker 2: spent against Thomas Massey. For example, you got all these
Speaker 2: Zionist billionaires who have lined up, you know, big Bucks
Speaker 2: to his primary opponent, and even the GOP House has
Speaker 2: their congressional fund, has kicked in lots of money to
Speaker 2: oppose Thomas Massey. These people, meanwhile, are playing footsea with Epstein.
Speaker 2: I look at this and it's like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't think even with all that money, they're going
Speaker 2: to defeat Thomas Massey in his district. People know who
Speaker 2: this guy is, and he may wind up being the
Speaker 2: only Republican left after the midterms in Congress. Wouldn't that
Speaker 2: be something? So yeah, they said, well, we don't really know.
Speaker 2: There's some people who want to do it, think it'd
Speaker 2: be really a good idea. But yeah, you think that'd
Speaker 2: be a good idea. Israel, meanwhile, is having a gigantic
Speaker 2: Pride festival. Never had one this big there before. And
Speaker 2: of course they have had pride festivals, They've had LGBT areas,
Speaker 2: big areas in Tel Aviv. They've been actually one of
Speaker 2: the pioneers of all of this LGBT debauchery and degeneracy.
Speaker 2: The Middle East largest ever LGBT Pride festival we held
Speaker 2: in Israel at the Dead Sea for four days beginning
Speaker 2: June the first. And so the point was not lost
Speaker 2: on a lot of Christians who believed that that was
Speaker 2: the area Sodom and Moore, that that had something to
Speaker 2: do with the unusual nature of the Dead Sea. And
Speaker 2: many people said, here we are, you know, recreating this
Speaker 2: right here at the site of Sodom and Moore or
Speaker 2: very near it. One person who was putting it together,
Speaker 2: the producer Aaron Cohen, said, this is not just another festival.
Speaker 2: It's the biggest thing we've done here. And so this
Speaker 2: is being organized by Aaron Cohen. I thought it was
Speaker 2: being organized by Nathan from the Edward G. Robinson character
Speaker 2: from Cecil be to Meals to ten Commandments. I wonder
Speaker 2: if they're gonna have a golden calf out there, But anyway,
Speaker 2: so it is a golden calf, proverbally and proverbally anyway,
Speaker 2: he said, So we choose to grow, We're going to
Speaker 2: take an investment of millions of dollars, purchase entire hotels
Speaker 2: for four days and build a city from scratch in
Speaker 2: the middle of the desert to celebrate debauchery. How did
Speaker 2: that work out for the original Israelites?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: But, as one pastor pointed out, Tom Askell, a Southern
Speaker 2: Baptist pastor, he connected with Mike Huckabee on social media,
Speaker 2: and he said, it's events like this one that lead
Speaker 2: Christians to neglect celebrating the modern state of Israel. He said,
Speaker 2: I'm not interested in celebrating any aspect to the modern
Speaker 2: state of Israel. Has absolutely nothing to do with Israel,
Speaker 2: he says, ambassad Huckabee. Yeah, you want to say something
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 4: I mean you want to talk about similarities between Solomon
Speaker 4: and Moora. They're the ones raining down the fire and
Speaker 4: brimstone on people just because they happen to.
Speaker 3: Want the land. That's right.
Speaker 4: Them doing this pride parade doesn't change the other things
Speaker 4: that they've done. Whether they do it or not.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: So Tom Askell, says investor Huckabee. Wickedness like this is
Speaker 2: why Christians take issue with any thought of standing sold
Speaker 2: shoulder to shoulder with and celebrating the modern state of Israel.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: And of course, you know, you see so many pastors
Speaker 2: out there say they don't need any forgiveness. It's like
Speaker 2: Paul White and this Hagey guy in San Antonio. These
Speaker 2: are spiritual advisors quote unquote to Donald Trump. They say
Speaker 2: they don't need any forgiveness. They're descendants of Abraham. Well,
Speaker 2: the reality, folks, is that God doesn't have grandchildren.
Speaker 3: It's just that simple.
Speaker 2: You will make that you'll make that relationship yourself, or
Speaker 2: you won't have it. And of course, when Jesus was
Speaker 2: there being confronted by the Jews of his day, the
Speaker 2: Jewish leaders of his day, they were coming after him.
Speaker 2: They said, well, Abraham is our father, and he says, no,
Speaker 2: your father is the devil. And clearly that is the
Speaker 2: case in many of these instances. Here meanwhile, Milania Trump
Speaker 2: is pushing AI on kids again. This time she wants
Speaker 2: to partner with Palateer. Of course, Pallateer is a pal
Speaker 2: of mine. As this person tweets out this speech of her.
Speaker 2: As he comments, he says, this is Frankie Stokes. He says,
Speaker 2: bragging about empowering America's children by partnering with Pallateer, Open
Speaker 2: Ai and others to usher kids into an AI surveillance
Speaker 2: state takeover, using the educational system to do it. And
Speaker 2: we need to put that educational system in air quotes.
Speaker 5: I'm proud that America's best technology companies, including Meta Volunteer,
Speaker 5: Open Ai, Adobe, Zoom Communications X, and Microsoft, had a
Speaker 5: chance to advance our mission to empower children with technology
Speaker 5: and education.
Speaker 2: It's almost like a rerun of Green Acres. Every time
Speaker 2: I hear her talk. It's like avagabor, you know the stores. Anyway,
Speaker 2: Trump is now worth six and a half billion dollars,
Speaker 2: up from one point four billion dollars. Since taking office,
Speaker 2: He's more than quadrupled his wealth. Don Junior and Eric
Speaker 2: each jumped from forty to fifty million dollars to three
Speaker 2: hundred to four hundred million dollars, mostly through crypto. The
Speaker 2: broader Trump family fortune has nearly doubled to around ten
Speaker 2: billion dollars. This is, I think, without a doubt, the
Speaker 2: most corrupt administration in the twentieth century and twenty four
Speaker 2: century that we've ever seen. Meanwhile, we had yet another
Speaker 2: manipulation of the commodity in stock markets by Donald Trump
Speaker 2: or people around him. Traders placed a series of bets
Speaker 2: worth four hundred and thirty million dollars on a drop
Speaker 2: in crude oil prices just fifteen minutes before Trump announced
Speaker 2: and Iran cease fire extension. Traders placed a series of
Speaker 2: bets on the drop just fifteen minutes before. It is
Speaker 2: the third time just this month, and the fourth time
Speaker 2: in total, because remember there was one back about Venezuela.
Speaker 2: What was the timing going to be of the raid?
Speaker 2: It turns out that just today they have charged a
Speaker 2: Special Forces soldier for making money off of that Venezuela bet.
Speaker 2: We still don't know who did these others. What I'm
Speaker 2: surprised at with this is that they actually investigated the
Speaker 2: one with Venezuela. I figured there'd be no investigation because
Speaker 2: I figured everybody would think that it was a Trump family.
Speaker 3: They didn't want to find out.
Speaker 4: But I guess, is this all the money that was
Speaker 4: bet or is this just the scapegoat?
Speaker 3: Well, no, there was this.
Speaker 2: I think was he bet like thirty three thousand dollars
Speaker 2: on that and he made he made over four hundred
Speaker 2: thousand dollars on it, So I don't know if he's
Speaker 2: the only one that was betting.
Speaker 4: Because I heard, you know, much bigger numbers than four
Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars. That doesn't seem like the bigger.
Speaker 2: Numbers were the first one of these Iran oil things, right,
Speaker 2: there was a big bet place in the stock market
Speaker 2: and a big bet place in the oil market. I
Speaker 2: forget which one was bigger, but there was one that
Speaker 2: was nearly a billion dollars and that was with the
Speaker 2: Iran war stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure it's not the special forces guys betting
Speaker 4: a billion dollars at a time, that's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had about thirty three thousand dollars to put
Speaker 2: into it, and he made a little over four hundred
Speaker 2: thousand dollars. So that was the fourth one that happened,
Speaker 2: and they have charged him. The soldier has been charged
Speaker 2: with He made a little over four hundred thousand. They
Speaker 2: charged him with unlawful use of confidential government information, commodities fraud.
Speaker 2: This is a wire fraud and unlawful monetary transactions. I mean,
Speaker 2: they don't really stack the charges up on you if
Speaker 2: they got it out for you. They do have it
Speaker 2: out for this guy. So they released his name, which
Speaker 2: is really not important, but he placed bets on that,
Speaker 2: so again it could be somebody in the military that
Speaker 2: placed these bets on these other markets, except the amount
Speaker 2: of money, as Lances pointing out, was much higher on
Speaker 2: these bets around the Iran war. Meanwhile, Teather has frozen
Speaker 2: three hundred and forty four million dollars of stable coins
Speaker 2: that have been flagged for illicit activity. This is one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why you don't want to go near
Speaker 2: stable coin. You don't want to go near a coin
Speaker 2: even if it is backed by gold. These stable coins
Speaker 2: are for the most part backed by treasury bills. But
Speaker 2: you don't want to go around any of this stuff
Speaker 2: because the reason that they're pushing this is because it
Speaker 2: has all of the surveillance control and all the ability
Speaker 2: to freeze the account just like a central bank digital currency,
Speaker 2: and so be aware of that these things they're trapped.
Speaker 2: As Admiral Barr says well, Meanwhile, gold demand is anchored
Speaker 2: in a mispriced risk as China is buying much of
Speaker 2: it and showing that it actually is an opportunity. It's
Speaker 2: a dip and it's on sale, folks. That's the reality
Speaker 2: of what is happening with gold right now. China is
Speaker 2: taking advantage of it, and as we were saying yesterday
Speaker 2: with Tony Ardaban, it is pretty clear that all the
Speaker 2: fundamentals that have been their driving gold in the past
Speaker 2: are all still there and much more fundamentally in favor
Speaker 2: of gold going up and the dollar going down in
Speaker 2: the long term. Well, Thomas Massey, as I said before,
Speaker 2: he's getting massive amount of money spent against him by
Speaker 2: the GOP itself.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: He had the nearly one hundred thousand dollars of his
Speaker 2: campaign funding of his opponent has come through the Republican
Speaker 2: Jewish Coalition pack that's not including the amount of money
Speaker 2: that's been given by the Jewish billionaires, simply because you know,
Speaker 2: he doesn't have anything in particular about saying, well, we're
Speaker 2: going to continue for an aid to everybody but Israel.
Speaker 2: Now he wants to get rid of it for everybody.
Speaker 2: That's the same reason they came after Pap Buchanan, and
Speaker 2: you got people like Mark Levin bragging about the fact
Speaker 2: and we canceled Pap Buchanan and we can do that,
Speaker 2: We'll do it again. You know, don't you know, give
Speaker 2: us our money. We don't care if you go bankrupt,
Speaker 2: butch you better give us our money. You know, you
Speaker 2: can't stop it for everybody. If you want to stop
Speaker 2: it for the other people, fine, maybe stop it for us.
Speaker 2: We will cut you off. And that's what they're looking
Speaker 2: at here. So, as I said before, will Massey be
Speaker 2: the only one in the up left? He said, they
Speaker 2: have wasted ten million dollars in my race already. He said,
Speaker 2: imagine if they'd used that in Virginia where they just
Speaker 2: had an election about redistricting. He said, maybe we could
Speaker 2: have stopped that in Virginia. But that's not the thing
Speaker 2: that is actually their focus. Their real reality is that
Speaker 2: they want to suck up to Trump and to Israel
Speaker 2: whatever they say. And of course Massey is speaking out
Speaker 2: about PISA as well. They were able to stop it
Speaker 2: at the last minute, a coalition of conservatives of the
Speaker 2: House Freedom Caucus, and they were able to stop the
Speaker 2: re extension of PISA. Trump wanted it extended without any
Speaker 2: reform at all. It called for it to be completely
Speaker 2: shut down when it was targeting him.
Speaker 3: But he and the.
Speaker 2: People who work for him are all about lawfair now
Speaker 2: and all about the surveillance state, and so they're back
Speaker 2: at it again. That was just a couple of days ago,
Speaker 2: and now they're pushing this whole thing again. They want
Speaker 2: to bring it up and extend it out to three years.
Speaker 6: Today we're introducing a brand new bill that's long needed. Unfortunately,
Speaker 6: it's needed because there have been so many erosions of
Speaker 6: our Fourth Amendment right to privacy. You know, there's a
Speaker 6: robust discussion right now about the feisas seven two program,
Speaker 6: but really that's just the tip of the iceberg in
Speaker 6: terms of infringement on the Fourth Amendment. There's so many
Speaker 6: other laws and Supreme Court decisions that have impinged on
Speaker 6: your right to privacy. For instance, the Bank Secrecy Act,
Speaker 6: the Right to find Outantial Privacy Act, the Patriot Act.
Speaker 6: All of these have great sounding names, but all of
Speaker 6: them created so called loopholes in the constitution. Foreign Intelligent
Speaker 6: Surveillance Act not a euphemism, but misnamed because it's got
Speaker 6: foreign in it.
Speaker 7: It's used to go.
Speaker 6: After Americans secret applications of the Foreign Intelligent Surveillance Act.
Speaker 6: I've been in a skiff last week where I saw
Speaker 6: two secret rulings interpretations of FEIS the law of how
Speaker 6: the government has created additional loopholes to spy on you
Speaker 6: that I'm not even allowed to tell you these these
Speaker 6: were classified as top secret. And finally, the third party doctrine,
Speaker 6: this is very troublesome. It's been expanded. It was a ruling,
Speaker 6: it's based on a ruling of the Supreme Court that
Speaker 6: allowed it was a six to three ruling.
Speaker 7: I think it was a bad ruling.
Speaker 6: But it's been expanded in its interpretation to include things
Speaker 6: like doctor's appointment records, bank record phone records. Who have
Speaker 6: you texted? All the metadata flock cameras for instance. Now
Speaker 6: and if you think about collecting information on bank records,
Speaker 6: that means you can get your gun records.
Speaker 7: And this was done. This is not something I've imagined.
Speaker 6: This is something that I learned about thanks to whistleblowers
Speaker 6: on the Judiciary Committee. What the DOJ did is they
Speaker 6: asked Bank of America, and Bank of America complied for
Speaker 6: all of the records of anybody who was here inside
Speaker 6: of a certain radius of Washington, DC on January sixth.
Speaker 6: They asked them for all of their bank purchase records
Speaker 6: for gun stores as well. It's completely illegal, but imagine
Speaker 6: instead of doing a query with one person, that you
Speaker 6: turn AI.
Speaker 7: Loose on these databases.
Speaker 6: Now there's virtually nothing the government can't know about you
Speaker 6: without a warrant if you believe that these infringements are legitimate,
Speaker 6: and they are not. That is we have created this
Speaker 6: bill called the Surveillance Accountability Act. This was conceived by
Speaker 6: Naomi Brockwell of the Ludlow Institute.
Speaker 7: We've been working on it for years.
Speaker 6: It's got the right provisions in it so that it
Speaker 6: doesn't impede legitimate law enforcement activity, and it's long needed.
Speaker 6: It closes these loopholes that I've explained to you. And
Speaker 6: more importantly, it creates a private right of action. You know,
Speaker 6: you can sue state employees of the government, but it's
Speaker 6: almost impossible to sue federal government employees if they infringe
Speaker 6: on your constitutional rights. So we put that that's the
Speaker 6: second half of this bill. It gives you the right
Speaker 6: to sue the government the government employee. And this is
Speaker 6: one of the most frustrating things I've run into since
Speaker 6: I've been in Congress.
Speaker 7: No accountability. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 6: We'll have accountability if when somebody goes to work, it's
Speaker 6: not just fun and games. If they infringe on your rights.
Speaker 6: Are your constitutional rights? They could be privately and personally
Speaker 6: sued for that.
Speaker 2: You know, the fundamental thing if I was in Congress,
Speaker 2: the thing that I would push for because I think
Speaker 2: it goes back to the middle of the twentieth century
Speaker 2: when you look at this, and that is the Supreme
Speaker 2: Court decision that said, well, AT and T. You know,
Speaker 2: of course AT and T is going to do whatever
Speaker 2: the federal government wanted them to do because they had
Speaker 2: a government granted monopoly on long distance service.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: They said, you know, those are your records, and if
Speaker 2: we want to get David's phone records, since that belongs.
Speaker 3: To you, you can just give it to us. And
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court went with that. Fiction.
Speaker 2: Now, it'd be very easy to fix that, and if
Speaker 2: they did that, that would undercut so much of this stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're talking about going in and getting records
Speaker 2: from all of these different businesses, all different types of things.
Speaker 2: Just go in and they just intimidate the people who
Speaker 2: are there, strong arm them. And if it's a large corporation,
Speaker 2: they're probably doing business with the federal government and so
Speaker 2: they're not going to want to damage that relationship. So
Speaker 2: what they really need to do, and they have this
Speaker 2: in terms of medical records, for example, there's all kinds
Speaker 2: of prohibitions in terms of doctors and hospitals giving out
Speaker 2: somebody's medical records. You could make the same argument, well, hey,
Speaker 2: you're doing business voluntarily with this hospital, with this doctor,
Speaker 2: and anything that they know about you, that's really their information.
Speaker 2: If they want to hand over this information that belongs
Speaker 2: to that doctor in that hospital, they can do it. No,
Speaker 2: we have prohibitions against that. They got to be prohibitions
Speaker 2: against all of this sharing by corporations with the government
Speaker 2: because it all violates your privacy. That's the bottom line
Speaker 2: I think with all of it. But it is a
Speaker 2: good point that he made in terms of how dishonest
Speaker 2: these different bills are. We've got a privacy bill they
Speaker 2: call it, which violates your privacy. You've got a Bank
Speaker 2: Secrecy Act because there's not going to be any secrecy
Speaker 2: with the you got the Patriot Act and so forth.
Speaker 2: Everything that they do is a lie. You want to
Speaker 2: say something, Lance.
Speaker 4: I was just going to say, at the time, when
Speaker 4: are they going to say that attorney attorney client privilege
Speaker 4: is something? At that point an attorney could just sell.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, yeah, or just give it away, right.
Speaker 2: You know, Hey, you know, I know you'd like to
Speaker 2: please the government, so you want to give us all
Speaker 2: that information from your client that we gave you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'd be like if Zuckerberg started a a lawyer
Speaker 4: service where sure you can get free lawyer, free legal representation,
Speaker 4: you just have to give up all your attorney client privilege.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, it really is. It's all based on that.
Speaker 2: That is all this stuff really is the fruit of
Speaker 2: that poisonous decision about the phone company owning your data. Well,
Speaker 2: the House Freedom Caucus members say they are unsatisfied with
Speaker 2: the current language being discussed. The bill includes language that
Speaker 2: a section by section summary argued compliments existing law by
Speaker 2: restarting I'm sorry, restating existing Fourth Amendment protections for Americans
Speaker 2: whose communications may be swept up as they speak with
Speaker 2: foreign targets. It also requires queries of Americans to be
Speaker 2: reviewed by the Civil Liberties Protection Officer at the Office
Speaker 2: of the Director of National Intelligence on a monthly basis.
Speaker 2: Let me just say that is nothing but a headfake.
Speaker 2: You know, the whole idea of even having it's very
Speaker 2: similar similar to what they did with the fives of
Speaker 2: Court itself, which is nothing but a star chamber anytime
Speaker 2: you've got a situation where they can surveil you, start
Speaker 2: investigating you and you don't even know it. They don't
Speaker 2: have to get a warrant for any of this kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. And that's what's happening with these secret courts.
Speaker 2: We do not want secret courts when you look at
Speaker 2: these no fly lists things like that, the fact that
Speaker 2: the government can set these things up, you know, that
Speaker 2: was the very first report that I did when I
Speaker 2: went to info Wars. Was a guy who was flying
Speaker 2: to see his flying to see his wife is in
Speaker 2: the military, and she was in Japan, and he was
Speaker 2: flying on a military plane, and he was somebody who
Speaker 2: was part of his work had been vetted by the
Speaker 2: TSA because he worked in an airport. He had been
Speaker 2: vetted for gun carry and other things like that. And
Speaker 2: he's flying to see her in Japan. He gets to Hawaii,
Speaker 2: he changes planes there, he gets on the plane, it's
Speaker 2: about to take off, and all of a sudden, they
Speaker 2: stopped the plane. Federal agents come on and say, you
Speaker 2: come with us. You can't fly, you're on the no
Speaker 2: fly list. They stranded him in Hawaii. You don't have
Speaker 2: an airplane to get out of what's he going to do?
Speaker 2: Catch a freighter or something to try to get out
Speaker 2: of Hawaii. Fortunately for him, he was able to get
Speaker 2: to some media outlets like ours, and he was able
Speaker 2: to get some publicity, and some people in the military
Speaker 2: helped him out. But he could never I talked to
Speaker 2: him after he came back stateside.
Speaker 3: He was never.
Speaker 2: Able to find out why he was put on that
Speaker 2: list or how to get off of it. This is
Speaker 2: why we have so much of the due process aspects
Speaker 2: that are in the bill. Rights to know what you
Speaker 2: were charged with, to be able to confront your accusers,
Speaker 2: to have an open and a fair trial. Everything the
Speaker 2: government does whenever they talked about being national security, it's
Speaker 2: always hidden. It's always secret. And we can see the
Speaker 2: fruit of that kind of activity when we look at
Speaker 2: the bioweapon atrocities that are being done by our own
Speaker 2: government against American people, lyme disease, and other things that
Speaker 2: I talked about yesterday. So the section bisection outline says
Speaker 2: the bill would renew Section seven oh two for three years,
Speaker 2: which is longer than they had originally talked about. They
Speaker 2: originally talked about one half years. Then the House Freedom
Speaker 2: Caucus stops it. So then they put together another bill
Speaker 2: and they extend it to three years, double the amount
Speaker 2: of time that the original one was going to be there.
Speaker 2: And so no reforms because Trump doesn't want any reforms.
Speaker 2: He wants a police state. Brian Fitzpatrick, a Republican from Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: said he was satisfied that the bill did not include
Speaker 2: a warrant requirement, something he said would grind the process
Speaker 2: to a halt. Let me just say, we don't want
Speaker 2: to have warp speed due process.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: The whole point of the Bill of Rights and the
Speaker 2: Constitution is to have a process. Which, yes, of course
Speaker 2: that's going to slow down what the government does. That
Speaker 2: is by design, just like it's going to slow things down.
Speaker 2: If we've got to actually have a debate and discussion
Speaker 2: about whether or not we're going to go to war,
Speaker 2: we should pause and think about some of these things.
Speaker 2: But everybody, oh, let's just grease it through. We heard
Speaker 2: the same thing from Mike Johnson, the Trader of the House.
Speaker 2: He was out there saying, I played the clip for
Speaker 2: he said, warrants. We can't do warrants. We don't need
Speaker 2: no stinking badges. Right, how long this would take us,
Speaker 2: Whether they're talking about the actions of Trump's gestapo ice
Speaker 2: or whether they're talking about Faiza. They don't want to
Speaker 2: have ny warrince that's too much work. It will slow
Speaker 2: things down. We got to do this at warp speed,
Speaker 2: and of course warp speed is how so many people
Speaker 2: were injured and killed because we didn't take the time
Speaker 2: to do any tests. So I talked about this briefly yesterday,
Speaker 2: but James Talerico, I got another clip I wanted to
Speaker 2: play for you. He is really doubling down. I don't
Speaker 2: know how he thinks this is going to help him
Speaker 2: in Texas. And I look at this guy. He was
Speaker 2: out there twisting and perverting the Bible saying that God
Speaker 2: is non binary. And as I said when I played
Speaker 2: the clip the other clip yesterday, I said, well, you
Speaker 2: know they're all about people's preferred pronouns. Maybe you ought
Speaker 2: to go with God's preferred pronouns. God's preferred pronouns are
Speaker 2: he and him, but he doesn't care about that. So
Speaker 2: here's what he had to say when he was on
Speaker 2: with Jake Tapper.
Speaker 8: National Republican Senate Committee is already highlighting comments that you've made.
Speaker 8: For example, they're highlighting this.
Speaker 9: God is both masculine and feminine, and everything in between
Speaker 9: between is non binary.
Speaker 8: What is your response to them using that and explain
Speaker 8: what you were talking about.
Speaker 9: Well, I understand that that comment is a little provocative.
Speaker 9: I said it on the house floor faults when the
Speaker 9: extremists in the Republican legislature were picking on school kids
Speaker 9: who were different. But I don't think it's contraard Zoologically,
Speaker 9: most Christians would acknowledge that God is beyond gender. In fact,
Speaker 9: the Apostle Paul, in his letter to the Galatians said
Speaker 9: that in Christ there is neither male nor female, and
Speaker 9: so if someone's got a problem with that statement, they
Speaker 9: shouldn't take it up with me. They should take it
Speaker 9: up with the Apostle Paul.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, God's going to take that up with you.
Speaker 2: That is such a juvenile understanding of what was being
Speaker 2: said there. What he was talking about was the differences
Speaker 2: between different people. He said, God is not a respect
Speaker 2: to a person. He doesn't care if you're Jewish or gentile.
Speaker 2: He doesn't care for your male or female. He doesn't
Speaker 2: care for your slave or free. God is not a slave, right,
Speaker 2: he wasn't talking about If you look at the context.
Speaker 2: It's amazing how he took that out of context. He's
Speaker 2: going to a seminary. I looked up the seminary. It's
Speaker 2: the Presbyterian Church of America. This is the liberal, mainline
Speaker 2: Presbyterian Church. They've split twice since then. They had a
Speaker 2: split the early part of the twentieth century. They created
Speaker 2: the People split off from it, created the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.
Speaker 2: And then you had another split in the middle of
Speaker 2: the twentieth century, again away from the PCAs they kept
Speaker 2: going to the left, other people said no, no, we're
Speaker 2: not going to go that direction. So they created did
Speaker 2: PC USA, I think is what it is. I'm not Presbyterian,
Speaker 2: but it's amazing it all began. Interestingly enough, the reason
Speaker 2: they had these splits in the early twentieth century was
Speaker 2: because the Presbyterian seminaries were saying, we can't trust God's
Speaker 2: word right, it's not infallible, and so that's the path
Speaker 2: they went down. And now they're going out there and
Speaker 2: grabbing little bits and pieces pulling them out. This is
Speaker 2: the worst contextual violation I've ever seen, the kind of
Speaker 2: nonsense that he's putting out there, and it absolutely is nonsense.
Speaker 2: But he's also said that posting the Ten Commandments is violence,
Speaker 2: it's hateful. Maybe it's because he is so intent on
Speaker 2: violating the Ten Commandments that he sees it as violence.
Speaker 2: But he is storing up wrath, there's no question about that.
Speaker 2: He and the Democrats. But again, this is the only
Speaker 2: thing that really keeps the keeps the Republican Party in
Speaker 2: business at all. I think is this insanity that's coming
Speaker 2: from the Democrats. So he says, I don't think it's
Speaker 2: controversial theologically to say this. Well, again, that reflects on
Speaker 2: the seminary that he's going to. As I said earlier,
Speaker 2: Trump has only eight days left to make up his
Speaker 2: mind about Iran, and supposedly they're then going to get
Speaker 2: serious about the law. They've never been serious about the
Speaker 2: Constitution and declaring war because they decided that they didn't
Speaker 2: want to go with the Constitution and say that Congress
Speaker 2: would declare war. They created the War Powers Act and
Speaker 2: that lets the President do whatever he wants to for
Speaker 2: sixty days. But that time is nearly up, and I
Speaker 2: don't expect that they're going to do anything to call
Speaker 2: him back in line with that as well. Meanwhile, in London,
Speaker 2: we look at the real threat to our countries. It's
Speaker 2: really the open border, and it's something that Trump doesn't
Speaker 2: really care to do anything about anymore. When you look
Speaker 2: at the bringing in people as refugees, he's actually doubled that.
Speaker 2: They've done a lot in terms of confrontation with people.
Speaker 2: I think what you see the so called immigration enforcement
Speaker 2: that Trump is doing, I think is over the top
Speaker 2: and it is far beyond a proportional response to what
Speaker 2: people have done. There are orderly ways to do this,
Speaker 2: there are simple ways to do it. They have decided,
Speaker 2: like in everything else, Trump wants to be as confrontational
Speaker 2: as possible. He wants to lay the foundation for police
Speaker 2: surveillance state, he wants to lay the foundation for IDs
Speaker 2: and so forth. And so that's where we are right now.
Speaker 2: But if you look at what is happening in London,
Speaker 2: this is a warning sign to people. London landlords have
Speaker 2: been caught advertising their flats for rent advertising Muslim only,
Speaker 2: or they put things like this for two Muslim boys,
Speaker 2: or for two Muslim girls, or suitable for Punjabi boy.
Speaker 2: Now think about if you were to run an ad
Speaker 2: to rent something here in America or in London, and
Speaker 2: you're put in their whites only would that fly. That
Speaker 2: would probably make it a national news for sure, much
Speaker 2: more so than this did, as many people are pointing out.
Speaker 2: And course this is really what is given the wind
Speaker 2: and the sails to the Reform Party in the UK.
Speaker 2: They said it is disgusting and anti British. There would
Speaker 2: be a national outrage of the table's returned if it
Speaker 2: was whites only, and they're absolutely right about that. It
Speaker 2: is the two tier system that they have set up
Speaker 2: in the UK. Well, they also pointed out the name
Speaker 2: Muhammad has also been the most popular boy's name in
Speaker 2: England and Wales for two consecutive years, with over five
Speaker 2: thousand boys given that name in twenty twenty four loan,
Speaker 2: so they should have no problem finding renters. I guess
Speaker 2: that's the reality. Uh where we are today. We're going
Speaker 2: to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 10: H m hm.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the David Knight Show.
Speaker 2: If you like the Eagles, it doesn't.
Speaker 11: The cars and Huey Lewis and the news. They say
Speaker 11: the You'll love the Classic Hits channel at APS Radio,
Speaker 11: download our app or listen now at apsradio dot com.
Speaker 2: Well, we have a couple of interviews that are coming up.
Speaker 2: The first one we're going to run is an interview
Speaker 2: that cut earlier this week. It's a book that was
Speaker 2: written not necessarily for somebody who's a seminary student that
Speaker 2: knows everything like Tolerico does, but I think it could
Speaker 2: benefit from this book. The key part, the key purpose
Speaker 2: of this book was to try to build interest in people.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people get very mechanical in
Speaker 2: terms of reading the Bible or they don't understand the context.
Speaker 2: And so what our guest did was to try to
Speaker 2: come up with a way to approach the Bible that
Speaker 2: is going to help you to establish a relationship and
Speaker 2: something that should actually read and not just set on
Speaker 2: the shelf and you know, be in awe of it.
Speaker 2: Like Trump uses the when he goes to these things,
Speaker 2: he takes the Bible and holds it up. He doesn't
Speaker 2: open it up, but he just holds it up in
Speaker 2: the air. But before we do, and then after that,
Speaker 2: we've got an interview coming up with an individual who
Speaker 2: is trying to get permit to do a large copper
Speaker 2: mine in Alaska, and we're going to talk about the
Speaker 2: obstacles to that and how the Trump administration is actually
Speaker 2: working against what it wants to do in terms of manufacturing. Yes,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of things that can go wrong
Speaker 2: with manufacturing, especially with mining and things like that, but
Speaker 2: anything that whenever you do something, whenever you build something,
Speaker 2: whenever you mind something, there's going to be some risk
Speaker 2: that there might be some pollution or something like that,
Speaker 2: but there's also an opportunity for you to do it
Speaker 2: the right way. And yet we have seen the pendulum
Speaker 2: swing too far, I think, to one side. So we're
Speaker 2: going to talk to him about the struggle that he's
Speaker 2: going through, and I think it's a very interesting commentary
Speaker 2: on where this country is and the problems that were saying.
Speaker 2: But before we do, I just want to mention some
Speaker 2: of the people who have supported the broadcast. It's a
Speaker 2: short list, it won't take too long, and thank them
Speaker 2: for supporting us. We're still not quite up to seventy
Speaker 2: five percent or three quarters on the gas gage, but
Speaker 2: I would just wanted to thank some of the people
Speaker 2: who have contributed on Zell and on cash app. On
Speaker 2: zel we have Michael P. Actually got two Michael P's
Speaker 2: a different last name.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 2: One of them said, well, this is for the Mark
Speaker 2: Levin impersonation that she did, and I don't really do
Speaker 2: Mark Levin well unless I'm really in a nasty mood.
Speaker 2: I've got to have the right kind of approach because
Speaker 2: he just comes across as such a nasty person. He
Speaker 2: used to always I would hear him on the Rush
Speaker 2: Limbaugh Show back in the day. I'd be in the
Speaker 2: car and Rush always called him the great One, and
Speaker 2: I used to say, even back then, I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: but the way you spell that is g r ate,
Speaker 2: because I always found Mark Levin to be very grating
Speaker 2: in terms of his whining, the way he speaks, but
Speaker 2: especially what he had to say. So again, Michael P.
Speaker 2: And there's two different Michael PE's, Raymond G. Susan L.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Susan Brandon, m Scott L, Darryl L. And
Speaker 2: Daryl is a new contributor, I've not seen his name before,
Speaker 2: and Sally D. And then we have one contributor who
Speaker 2: has given us some money on cash app is very
Speaker 2: generous contribution.
Speaker 12: Dave B.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. So that any
Speaker 2: further delay, we're going to go to our interviews.
Speaker 1: Us defending the American Dream. You're listening to the David
Speaker 1: Knight Show. If you like the Eagles on.
Speaker 11: The Cars and Huey Lewis and the news, they say
Speaker 11: you'll love the Classic Hits channel at APS Radio, download
Speaker 11: our app or listen now at apsradio dot com.
Speaker 2: We're joining us now is Tim mulgrew, and he's the
Speaker 2: author of a book of the story of us. It's
Speaker 2: really about helping people to read the Bible, to find
Speaker 2: it in a way that is open and engaging. We've
Speaker 2: got a lot of people who are looking with interest,
Speaker 2: and I've heard a lot of celebrity story about people
Speaker 2: like Tim Allen. I'm going through the whole Bible, you know,
Speaker 2: and it truly is amazing, he says, But you know,
Speaker 2: how do we do that. I've tried in the past.
Speaker 2: I've tried the annual Bible reading thing, and you've got
Speaker 2: to be very mechanical, and it really was counterproductive. There's
Speaker 2: different ways to look at it. So we're going to
Speaker 2: talk to Tim about his suggestions. We have a lot
Speaker 2: of people, as I said, they're looking at this. We've
Speaker 2: got Bible sales are jumping, and yet we don't see
Speaker 2: that reflected in society. We don't see that reflected in
Speaker 2: our lives in many cases, and so we're going to
Speaker 2: talk to him about what his suggestions are. Thank you
Speaker 2: for joining us, Tim, good to be here.
Speaker 13: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: You know you it's always important to talk about this.
Speaker 2: You talk about the fact that sometimes we look at
Speaker 2: the Bible as an idol. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 14: Well, it's interesting because in the book, I say, you know,
Speaker 14: how many people have actually thrown an old, worn out
Speaker 14: Bible in the trash. We kind of feel funny about that,
Speaker 14: even non believers funny about throwing a Bible in the trash.
Speaker 14: What it basically means is we elevate the book itself
Speaker 14: to be more than just bound paper put together in
Speaker 14: a in a nice envelope for our convenience.
Speaker 13: Yeah, well we never get started.
Speaker 2: Let me jump in here for a second. Is like, well,
Speaker 2: that reminds me of is Trump. You know, when you
Speaker 2: walk in and he just holds a Bible. I was like, look,
Speaker 2: I got this thing, you know, and it's like it's
Speaker 2: like a relic, you know, right, I've got holy hand
Speaker 2: grenade here. Yeah, instead of like, well open it up
Speaker 2: and read it, what does it saying?
Speaker 14: My whole thing is is that it's better to understand
Speaker 14: what the Bible says than to you know, simply read
Speaker 14: it or as most people just own it. Yeah, but
Speaker 14: we make the Bible, the book itself to be an idol,
Speaker 14: and then we basically are are harming our chances of
Speaker 14: ever understanding it because we're thinking too highly, not of
Speaker 14: what the Bible is, but the book itself.
Speaker 2: Now your title, the Book of Us, well, look at that.
Speaker 2: I had a question about that as well, because you know,
Speaker 2: Jesus said, well, you look, you search the scriptures because
Speaker 2: and then we think you have eternal life, and yet
Speaker 2: they testify of me. And that is one of the
Speaker 2: reasons one of the things that I look at when
Speaker 2: what does this tell me about Christ? But it's really
Speaker 2: was it tell me about Christ and his relationship with me?
Speaker 2: And how do you see that?
Speaker 14: So the Book of Us, it's kind of a play
Speaker 14: on words like the Book of Acts, the Book of
Speaker 14: Romans book. So generally I'm looking at the book the
Speaker 14: Bible as a whole book and trying to discover in
Speaker 14: there the human nature. In other words, you know, why
Speaker 14: did God think it was so important to capture all
Speaker 14: of these different events through history and all these different
Speaker 14: people preserve them for thousands of years for me to
Speaker 14: read today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 13: So when you go through and in.
Speaker 14: The latter half of my book, I write each of
Speaker 14: the sixty six books of the Bible, there's a summary
Speaker 14: there that talks about what the human nature of the
Speaker 14: human behavior is. God basically wrote the Bible to us
Speaker 14: for us. He doesn't need a Bible himself to tell
Speaker 14: him how to be God. So it's clearly written for us.
Speaker 13: But you know, if we can't find.
Speaker 14: The relevance, then really it's just anecdotal history of something
Speaker 14: that happened to people a couple thousand years ago.
Speaker 13: And why should I care now?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 13: Yes, yes, yeah, the idea is to find ourselves in.
Speaker 3: It, that's right.
Speaker 2: And when I look at it, you know, that is
Speaker 2: a key thing. If you see yourself in that, look
Speaker 2: at how that person reacted that.
Speaker 3: Am I like that? You know that type of thing?
Speaker 15: And well, we are some favorite subject, right right, It's
Speaker 15: kind of it's kind of funny because we look at
Speaker 15: it and I've often thought about the Bible, you know,
Speaker 15: when there's so few physical descriptions of anyone or anything, Right,
Speaker 15: there's a couple of vague descriptions.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, David has got as ruddy you
Speaker 2: know whatever that means? You have red hair? Does you
Speaker 2: have like a reddish complexion or something? What does that
Speaker 2: exactly mean? It's at a bit ambiguous. But and he
Speaker 2: might talk about Saul being really tall or something like that.
Speaker 2: But that's the first thing that humans will do is
Speaker 2: focus on the appearance. Right, You'll get a big description
Speaker 2: of the setting that's there. You'll get a description of
Speaker 2: what that person looks like, what they're wearing. Description. And
Speaker 2: yet that's not the way God puts us together. We
Speaker 2: see people unfold in terms of the way that they
Speaker 2: interact with each other and with them.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, right.
Speaker 14: If if it was intended to be a historical account,
Speaker 14: they would have given us a lot more information. But
Speaker 14: they give us enough to turn our imaginations on. And
Speaker 14: the idea that is to picture yourself in that scene.
Speaker 14: I always tell people when I'm teaching class that every
Speaker 14: time you hear Israelites or the Pharisees or any of
Speaker 14: the what we think of as villains in the Bible,
Speaker 14: you're supposed to put your name there because there's a
Speaker 14: lesson to be learned, and the lesson is more important
Speaker 14: to learn what happens to you and your behavior versus
Speaker 14: what happened to somebody thousands of years ago that you
Speaker 14: can't relate to.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's a good good point here.
Speaker 2: You talk about it not really being set up in
Speaker 2: a long timeline, and of course that's something that can
Speaker 2: be very difficult to do if you try to read
Speaker 2: it in chronological order, because the books, the books are
Speaker 2: not even laid out in the Bible in the chronological order.
Speaker 2: So like, you know, so what is the you know,
Speaker 2: this prophet when't he lived? You know, was this were
Speaker 2: they in captivity or was you know, who was a king?
Speaker 2: And what was it like in the times that he
Speaker 2: was writing? That can become kind of challenging actually try
Speaker 2: to put into a timeline. But that's not really the point.
Speaker 2: Point out that it's written in a circular Eastern style.
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 14: So Western style writing is what you're referring to, that's
Speaker 14: what we're accustomed to. It's basically what I would call
Speaker 14: a data dump.
Speaker 13: Fact fact, fact fact.
Speaker 14: You put the facts in your head and then you're
Speaker 14: supposed to figure out when to use them. But remember
Speaker 14: that the Bible is written to be timeless. Eastern style
Speaker 14: writing is more you're supposed to experience what you're reading,
Speaker 14: put yourself in that scene. Because we remember experiences, and
Speaker 14: we can apply experiences in our day to day walk
Speaker 14: without remembering what particular passage it was from. We learn
Speaker 14: and pick up the lesson behind it, and that's a
Speaker 14: usable thing. That's what makes the Bible alive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 13: Also makes it very relevant to us.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: And I think a big part of that too is
Speaker 2: when we look at this, you know, when we talk
Speaker 2: about a daily Bible reading plan, you know, and that's fine,
Speaker 2: but I tend to think of that as something that
Speaker 2: you do kind of at the start, maybe if you
Speaker 2: didn't grow up in a church or something and you
Speaker 2: don't have this kind of a background. You're trying to
Speaker 2: get what we call when we do homeschooling or classical education,
Speaker 2: we called that kind of the grammar stage. Right, you're
Speaker 2: just accumulating facts, and you know, you're like multiplying, memorizing
Speaker 2: the mulplication tables or something like that. It's hard, it's
Speaker 2: not necessarily very interesting, just accumulating facts, but it's necessary
Speaker 2: to have some of that because without that you can't
Speaker 2: start putting the bigger picture together, right. And so typically
Speaker 2: when we'll talk about classical education, we'll talk about grammar.
Speaker 2: Then we'll talk about a logic stage, and they'll talk
Speaker 2: about a rhetoric stage, and so at each of these
Speaker 2: stages you're starting to put this together. But it's not
Speaker 2: simply an academic exercise. When we are Christians, you know,
Speaker 2: things are happening in our life all the time, and
Speaker 2: God is teaching us through those things that happen in
Speaker 2: our life. And so it's kind of a mixture of
Speaker 2: the academic and the experience. And a lot of times,
Speaker 2: I remember when I was very young, I would read
Speaker 2: the psalms and it's like, this is the most boring stuff.
Speaker 3: I didn't like it at all.
Speaker 2: But now, you know, you go back as you're older
Speaker 2: and you've experienced these things said David was writing about,
Speaker 2: or whoever was writing that particular psalm, and it's like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that happened to me too.
Speaker 14: Yeah yeah, Well, and that's of course what we find
Speaker 14: is that, you know, Solomon said there's nothing new under
Speaker 14: the sun, and that still still holds true today when
Speaker 14: you can understand and see the experience that the Bible
Speaker 14: is talking about and relate to the message rather than
Speaker 14: getting hung up on the details. So you're describing what
Speaker 14: I call milk, bread and meat. Most Christians don't ever
Speaker 14: really get past the milk phase. They read the Bible
Speaker 14: through in a year. I remember, read the Bible through
Speaker 14: in eighty two was a big thing, you know, back
Speaker 14: in nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 13: And there's always.
Speaker 14: These gimmicks to get us to read the Bible. Well,
Speaker 14: it's it's interesting that a Christian should need a gimmick
Speaker 14: to read the very word that God has for them.
Speaker 14: But we do, you know, we're human and we have
Speaker 14: lots and lots of interest in life. But you're right,
Speaker 14: it's a good idea to go through the Bible cover
Speaker 14: to cover, as a lot of people say. But you know,
Speaker 14: the problem with a program that has a beginning and
Speaker 14: an end is that's how we also tend to read.
Speaker 13: Right.
Speaker 14: I started this, you know, the Book of Romans. So
Speaker 14: I need to finish the Book of Romans. And so
Speaker 14: my goal is to finish the book, not to understand
Speaker 14: the book right. Right, So you start with a passage
Speaker 14: and then you finish that passage and you go on
Speaker 14: to the next passage, but you don't have any idea
Speaker 14: what that passage means, So why go to another passage?
Speaker 13: It's just a.
Speaker 14: Passage like the passage you are on, right. In other words,
Speaker 14: we're always in a hurry to finish. That's really what
Speaker 14: Western style is as a beginning and an end, whereas
Speaker 14: Scripture doesn't have a beginning.
Speaker 13: We're an end. It always speaks to us.
Speaker 14: So the whole idea is to stop those habitual programs
Speaker 14: and say, I want to know what God has to
Speaker 14: say to me. That's what I'm interested in. That's why
Speaker 14: I'm reading the Bible, not because it's a duty or
Speaker 14: an obligation. I'm a Christian, so I have to say,
Speaker 14: as I've read the Bible fifteen.
Speaker 13: Times, what good is it? Read it if you don't
Speaker 13: understand it?
Speaker 3: Right, that's right.
Speaker 13: If you kicked up a novel, you would read it
Speaker 13: the same way.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 14: You'd be interested in the characters and the story and
Speaker 14: how it develops. And you know, Hollywood teaches us to
Speaker 14: fall in love with the character so that we feel
Speaker 14: emotions as the story plays out. And yeah, they kind
Speaker 14: of spoon feed the whole thinking process to us. But
Speaker 14: we fall in love with different things that we.
Speaker 13: Can identify with. But we don't read our Bibles that way.
Speaker 14: Like a textbook, and nobody likes textbooks.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'll read it, I guess. One of the
Speaker 2: things that I found is that I'll go through it
Speaker 2: and there'll be something that, wow, that what does that mean?
Speaker 2: You know, really strange? And and that's been the time
Speaker 2: when I really would would get something that would really
Speaker 2: hit me deeply because I'd sit there and I'd focus
Speaker 2: on it for several days. I'd be just I just
Speaker 2: stop right there, as you point out, don't just keep reading,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Stop and well what was that about?
Speaker 13: Right?
Speaker 2: And if you and if you dig deep on that,
Speaker 2: and if you look at it, and then I would
Speaker 2: do different things, like, you know, read different translations and
Speaker 2: sometimes I'd get, you know, different commentaries or whatever. But
Speaker 2: you pray about it, and after all you start to
Speaker 2: see it and you start to see it in your
Speaker 2: own life as well. It really is kind of interesting
Speaker 2: to stop on one particular thing that you don't understand
Speaker 2: and focus on that. I think that's a very rewarding thing.
Speaker 14: It is, without getting too granular on a particular passage,
Speaker 14: you have to keep it in context.
Speaker 2: That's right, And you talk about that as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: talk about context a bit. That's important.
Speaker 14: We you know, we in fact, I'm I have a
Speaker 14: couple more books in progress here, and I was just
Speaker 14: writing about that earlier.
Speaker 13: Today, we tend to love.
Speaker 14: Our legalism, and legalism goes through and it picks out
Speaker 14: certain pieces of scripture and says there's a rule, we
Speaker 14: need to enforce that rule, right, but it's completely out
Speaker 14: of context. When you roll up to the thirty thousand
Speaker 14: foot level and you look at what's being talked about.
Speaker 14: It's not a rule at all. It's never intended. We
Speaker 14: drive people away from Christianity because they say, I don't
Speaker 14: want to have to follow a list of dos and
Speaker 14: don'ts and a bunch of rule books and all that stuff.
Speaker 14: But that's not at all what scripture is. And that's
Speaker 14: the point I think most Christians are missing because we
Speaker 14: drill down, we find one little statement and we hang
Speaker 14: our hat on it without understanding in context what the
Speaker 14: writer was talking about.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 13: Yeah, that happens all over scripture.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: As some people said, a text without a context is
Speaker 2: simply a pretext after what you're reading into it, and
Speaker 2: I think that's really true. And you know, we look
Speaker 2: at it many times. We'll look at it if we say,
Speaker 2: you know, what is this telling me I've got to
Speaker 2: do right now? And it's not really about that. It's
Speaker 2: really about your relationship with God. It's not about a
Speaker 2: list of things to do to be approved by God.
Speaker 2: That's how Christianity's different from every other religion. Every other religion.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you do this, this and this, and
Speaker 2: then you get this at the end. As a result,
Speaker 2: Christ messages you can't do that. I'm going to give
Speaker 2: you some standards here that are impossible to meet. Now,
Speaker 2: there's going to be some things that if you do them,
Speaker 2: your life is going to be better. You're going to
Speaker 2: get blessings instead of curses in this life and just
Speaker 2: natural reaping what you sew, you know, good or bad.
Speaker 2: And so there's that aspect of it. But ultimately our
Speaker 2: approval with God is based on what Christ has done.
Speaker 2: That's the Christian message, right.
Speaker 14: But we would rather earn our way into heaven that
Speaker 14: way we have control over it. Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, nobody likes charity, as the Bible was.
Speaker 14: If you approach this on your own terms, you won't
Speaker 14: make it. That's right, because God is the one in charge. Yet,
Speaker 14: isn't it funny that we're still trying to do things
Speaker 14: to earn our way even though the Bible tells us
Speaker 14: it's impossible.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 13: That's our human tendency.
Speaker 14: So you know, my book is really about understanding what
Speaker 14: our human behaviors are, what our tendencies are, and we
Speaker 14: are the same as they were thousands of years ago.
Speaker 14: This is a pattern, it's recognizable. So if we can
Speaker 14: recognize it and we can control our behavior rather than
Speaker 14: trying to control scripture, we'll probably get a lot more
Speaker 14: out of scripture than we ever ever did before.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: Yes, you're talking about memorizing scripture without understanding it. And again,
Speaker 2: this is another one of these things like school level
Speaker 2: you know, it's one of the things that we would
Speaker 2: do with our kids when they're very young. You'd get
Speaker 2: them to memorize certain Bible passages. And there's a value
Speaker 2: to that. Just like you need to be able to
Speaker 2: memorize the multiplication table or you're not going to be
Speaker 2: able to do a higher level math. Same thing is
Speaker 2: true with that, And you know part of it is,
Speaker 2: you know, hiding God's word in your heart so that
Speaker 2: it comes back at times, and it will do that.
Speaker 2: It'll come back so that you understand it at that
Speaker 2: point in time when it's actually something that you're going through.
Speaker 13: Yeah.
Speaker 14: Well, the problem is is that we start to take
Speaker 14: pride in the fact that we've.
Speaker 13: Memorized all of these different things.
Speaker 14: But if we don't understand the message, how do we
Speaker 14: know when to pull them.
Speaker 13: Out and use them?
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 14: My word is a lamp and a lighted too my
Speaker 14: path and a lamp into my feet. Okay, well I'm
Speaker 14: having an argument with my spouse. How does that come
Speaker 14: in handy?
Speaker 13: Right? We don't.
Speaker 14: We're not understanding the message that's there. And to me,
Speaker 14: it's more important to understand the way to be than
Speaker 14: what to do right and wrong?
Speaker 3: Right, that's right.
Speaker 2: Yes, So you know when you talk about textbook human behavior,
Speaker 2: what do you mean about that?
Speaker 3: Throughout the Old Testament?
Speaker 14: So it works a lot like medicine. In medicine, they
Speaker 14: gather a whole bunch of people that have the same
Speaker 14: symptoms and then they try these different medications to figure out. Hey,
Speaker 14: anytime we see this group of people and we give
Speaker 14: them this, it works, and that's kind of how medicine works.
Speaker 14: It's trial and error. You talk about human behavior. Our
Speaker 14: human behavior basically is entirely predictable. When you look at
Speaker 14: how the Israelites behaved towards God in the earliest of.
Speaker 13: Days, I mean straight straight.
Speaker 14: Out of you know, God pulling them away from the Egyptians.
Speaker 14: They're hanging out waiting for Moses to come down the hill.
Speaker 13: And where they do they make a golden calf.
Speaker 14: Why because they want something tangible to worship. And that's
Speaker 14: that's the struggle we have. We need to look, touch
Speaker 14: and feel. Having a God that we can't touch with
Speaker 14: our hands is difficult for us to actually truly commit
Speaker 14: our entire lives to So we have this tendency to
Speaker 14: create things. That's like making your Bible an idol. We
Speaker 14: can even make God an idol. You can make your
Speaker 14: family and idol. It's not that the Bible and the
Speaker 14: family and these things are bad things. It's that they
Speaker 14: are getting in the way of a true, pure relationship
Speaker 14: with God. And so anything that does that is an idol.
Speaker 14: But we've been taught to think that it's a golden
Speaker 14: calf or a you know, a piece of wood or
Speaker 14: a stone or something you put on your dashboard or
Speaker 14: these types of things. But that's not it at all.
Speaker 14: It's anything good things. Most of the time people's good.
Speaker 13: Things are an idol.
Speaker 14: And it just prevents you from having a true relationship
Speaker 14: with God. What is it that God wants When we
Speaker 14: talk about restoration, what are we being restored to? We
Speaker 14: know what we're being restored from, but what is it
Speaker 14: we're being restored to. Well, if you go in the
Speaker 14: early pages of Genesis, God walked in the cool of
Speaker 14: the morning with Adam and Eve.
Speaker 13: They hung out together, they talked.
Speaker 14: Could you imagine walking and talking with God all day, all.
Speaker 13: Night, you know, hearing everything he has to say.
Speaker 14: This is what God wants to restore us too, the
Speaker 14: ability to have that kind of a relationship with him.
Speaker 13: But that's not what we do.
Speaker 14: We walk down the aisle, we say the Sinner's prayer,
Speaker 14: we convince ourselves that we're saved, we read our Bible,
Speaker 14: we go to school, to church on Sundays, and then
Speaker 14: we're waiting to die basically before we'll get to use
Speaker 14: our Christianity. And that's not the message of the Bible
Speaker 14: at all. The messages is reconciliation and restoration today so
Speaker 14: that you can have the relationship now. And scripture is
Speaker 14: all about the relationship with God, not the inheritance that
Speaker 14: comes at the end of the road.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's kind of like the lady the woman at
Speaker 2: the well, right, the smarton woman at the well, And
Speaker 2: Jesus said, if you knew who you were talking to you,
Speaker 2: it's like you're missing out of something really important here.
Speaker 2: And immediately, you know, when he tells her some things
Speaker 2: about her past, and it amazes her and it's like, whoa,
Speaker 2: you're a prophet. Okay, let's talk about religion now. And
Speaker 2: so she starts talking about, you know, whereas you Judas
Speaker 2: worship God in Jerusalem, but it Smridan's worshiping Mount Garrison
Speaker 2: or whatever. And so let's talk about something different. Let's
Speaker 2: make this a little bit distance, right. It's a little
Speaker 2: bit too personal and up close when she does that,
Speaker 2: And I think we can wind up doing that as well,
Speaker 2: you know, we can whoa this is I'm looking at
Speaker 2: all the different mistakes that you're talking about. We see
Speaker 2: this as a reading through it, and of course time
Speaker 2: is compressed quite a bit when you're reading the story.
Speaker 2: But you know, you see these amazing things happen, and
Speaker 2: people are walking really well with God, and then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden they just go into different directions like
Speaker 2: now in the world could they do that? And then
Speaker 2: you look at your own life and say, how did
Speaker 2: I do that? You know, we fall through the same things.
Speaker 14: Well, we don't like pointing the finger our direction, and
Speaker 14: that's kind of why we're resistant to reading the Bible
Speaker 14: that way, because it really does make us point the
Speaker 14: finger at ourselves. It's so much better when you read
Speaker 14: through the first part of Romans. Paul starts off and
Speaker 14: he talks about all the bad things non believers do
Speaker 14: and how they behave. But as soon as you get
Speaker 14: to chapter two, he says, now I'm talking to you
Speaker 14: people who are believers, and the crime is bigger. Why
Speaker 14: because you know better. They don't know better you do,
Speaker 14: and yet you still choose to be gave this way.
Speaker 14: So we don't like that that. You know, we're happy
Speaker 14: to point our finger at other people and say, you know,
Speaker 14: look at all the bad things these other people do.
Speaker 14: That's why we love the Pharisees and the Israelites and
Speaker 14: all that in scripture.
Speaker 13: Because it's somebody else. Yeah, that's why I say replace that.
Speaker 14: With your own name and see how that reads.
Speaker 13: And it hits close to home. It's not challenged by it.
Speaker 14: You're never gonna break down the walls that are separating
Speaker 14: your relationship with God.
Speaker 13: God is there.
Speaker 14: We're the ones that opt to stay away from him.
Speaker 14: Like you said the woman at the well, Well, I
Speaker 14: don't like the idea that you know all the husbands
Speaker 14: I've had, But let's talk about what the Jews do, right, Yeah,
Speaker 14: it's the same thing. That's a human behavior you see
Speaker 14: that you just picked up, and that's exactly what we do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's let's argue doctrine. We can push this
Speaker 2: off a little bit further out than my personal life here,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 3: Little, that's too close. And first of all, to talk
Speaker 3: about that right.
Speaker 14: Well, we hate to think it, but we do love
Speaker 14: our sin because we have the power in us to
Speaker 14: never sin again and to live the rest of our
Speaker 14: life perfectly, because that's the power of the Holy spirits.
Speaker 14: We just don't want to. It's very unpopular to think
Speaker 14: that way, but we choose to sin, and we choose
Speaker 14: the sins we like.
Speaker 13: Yes, they're not forced on us.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. So, yeah, it wouldn't be a
Speaker 3: temptation if it wasn't something we liked.
Speaker 13: That's right.
Speaker 3: Pleasure, that's right.
Speaker 2: You talk about as we're talking about sin, you talk
Speaker 2: about the age of abandonment?
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 14: So as we approach the end times, which of course
Speaker 14: everybody thinks is tomorrow, they've been thinking that two thousand years,
Speaker 14: there's these different phases where we see God less and less.
Speaker 14: If we look at kind of our society today and
Speaker 14: you relate it back to like the nineteen fifties, you know,
Speaker 14: when when married couples slept in separate beds, and you know,
Speaker 14: there's all of this, these different levels of morality, and
Speaker 14: you say, where has all the morality gone? What we
Speaker 14: see is that God is really giving us that free
Speaker 14: will he promised us. He's really allowing us to decide
Speaker 14: what we think we want in our lives. Because we're
Speaker 14: not choosing to follow him voluntarily. He's saying, Okay, if
Speaker 14: you think you know better, then let's see you go
Speaker 14: out and try.
Speaker 13: And what that's supposed to do is drive us.
Speaker 14: Back to him to say I tried it and I failed.
Speaker 14: You know, please forget about forgiveness, because that's just something
Speaker 14: we throw around. I want to be reconciled again. I
Speaker 14: don't want my own will. That's what the age of
Speaker 14: abandonon is about. It's about people who are becoming a
Speaker 14: little too high and mighty, if you will, thinking that
Speaker 14: we don't need God.
Speaker 13: Our whole premise as humans is to find anything that
Speaker 13: is not God.
Speaker 14: We don't like answering to anybody, much less somebody we
Speaker 14: can't see, touch and feel.
Speaker 13: So God is like one of those parents who.
Speaker 14: Their children are bound and determined to do something that
Speaker 14: the parent knows is bad for them.
Speaker 13: But the parent is going to say, Okay, if that's what.
Speaker 14: You really think you want, I'm going to let you
Speaker 14: do that and we'll see how it works out. And
Speaker 14: that's kind of the age that we're in now. And
Speaker 14: you can find in scripture that as the end time approaches,
Speaker 14: this is really easily identifiable in those passages.
Speaker 3: Yes, and that's.
Speaker 13: Where we are now. Well.
Speaker 2: I often think of the Prodigal Sun's story right about
Speaker 2: the guy goes out and loves this spendthrift life and
Speaker 2: father gives him his inheritance, let him go, and you know,
Speaker 2: winds up learning the lesson that is there. And I've
Speaker 2: often heard that offered out as a you know, an
Speaker 2: example to people are not Christians, But not too many
Speaker 2: people want to talk about it from the standpoint of
Speaker 2: the fact that he's already his father, you know, when
Speaker 2: this happens, and so this is kind of he's trun
Speaker 2: about it. It's like, well, I'm going to go off
Speaker 2: on my own and try this. And yet the message
Speaker 2: is that God is long suffering, and you're going to
Speaker 2: be long suffering until you return to you. So it's
Speaker 2: a good example about how I think, you know, the
Speaker 2: father does not disown him, and he's ready to accept him.
Speaker 2: But the guy's got to come to the end of
Speaker 2: himself and realize that that's really what he needs.
Speaker 14: Right, right, that his father wasn't his enemy, he was
Speaker 14: really his best friend.
Speaker 13: That's right, Which is the message that we have with God.
Speaker 14: We like to call on God when things in our
Speaker 14: world get too big for us, but we don't really
Speaker 14: like to call on him for the things we have
Speaker 14: under control. So and I always say it, and I
Speaker 14: said it in the book several times, that you know,
Speaker 14: we're made in the image of God, and so we
Speaker 14: misuse that much the way Lucifer did, where we create
Speaker 14: and become gods of our own little worlds. We pick
Speaker 14: and choose who's there, who's not, what happens, what doesn't happen,
Speaker 14: and then anytime it gets a little bit bigger than us,
Speaker 14: well then we turn to the big guns. Right, But
Speaker 14: we don't do that on a daily regular basis. We're
Speaker 14: not in a constant state of prayer.
Speaker 13: As Scripture tells us.
Speaker 14: We are a call on him when we need him,
Speaker 14: and the rest of the thing, I'll take care of it.
Speaker 13: And we often say that, well, I don't want.
Speaker 14: To bother God with all the little details, as if
Speaker 14: he couldn't handle them. Right, I'll save the big stuff
Speaker 14: for him until I really screw it up, and then
Speaker 14: then I'll bring him in and then I complain him
Speaker 14: when it goes wrong.
Speaker 2: And then you're missing out on a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: because God does inherit those little small details in our
Speaker 2: life if we actually involved him in that, so yeah,
Speaker 2: he can use.
Speaker 14: God wastes absolutely nothing. And if we understand that when
Speaker 14: we read Scripture and we understand that, when we experience
Speaker 14: a relationship with him, you know that nothing is wasted,
Speaker 14: even bad things. Are used for good.
Speaker 2: Right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, that's one of the
Speaker 2: things Karen really taught me. You know, she'll she'll she'll
Speaker 2: call on Gun for the smallest thing. I need a
Speaker 2: parking space over here, I can't find my keys or whatever,
Speaker 2: and then you see God right away, you know, when
Speaker 2: you turn to God. One of my favorite passages is
Speaker 2: this guy who's a king and he he gets something
Speaker 2: happens to his foot, and the Bible just kind of
Speaker 2: summarizes that he went to a doctor, so he died.
Speaker 3: He didn't ask God, so he died.
Speaker 2: He used to he'd rather go to a doctor and
Speaker 2: get a solution there rather than going to ask God.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the things to say all the
Speaker 2: time is that we hear people say not only as
Speaker 2: you pointed out, well that's I don't want to bother
Speaker 2: God with all the small details. He's got too much
Speaker 2: in his hands. Or we'll say, well, I guess there's
Speaker 2: nothing left now to do but to pray about it.
Speaker 3: Last resort.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is my hail Mary that is coming in
Speaker 2: at this point, and it's like, that's that's uh.
Speaker 13: That's the probable sun I came. I've come to the
Speaker 13: end of myself. Now I've got to turn back to God.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we talked about the age of abandonment,
Speaker 2: and of course we're told that people will become in
Speaker 2: the last days, people become lovers of themselves, and that's
Speaker 2: really what we're looking at here. But there's something that's
Speaker 2: a little bit hopeful.
Speaker 3: And some of the.
Speaker 2: Stats that that you've got here, there's in your email
Speaker 2: you talk about the fact that we have and I
Speaker 2: just saw an article about this as well. There are
Speaker 2: a lot more young men that are investigating and looking
Speaker 2: into the Bible, you know, curious at it. Then there
Speaker 2: are women, which is kind of interesting at this point.
Speaker 2: I think always in the past we have seen when
Speaker 2: there was a time of revival, it would kind of
Speaker 2: be mentioned that God would turn the hearts of the
Speaker 2: fathers towards their children. I always looked at that and
Speaker 2: I thought, well, I wonder if that is a sign
Speaker 2: of revival or maybe as to the extent that always
Speaker 2: in the past it was kind of assumed that the
Speaker 2: women would be thinking about the welfare of the children.
Speaker 2: Now that's not happening as much as it is men.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, how do you read that? Do
Speaker 2: you see that as a hopeful thing? The fact that
Speaker 2: we've got a lot more men. I mean, it's good
Speaker 2: when anybody of any any sex is looking for God,
Speaker 2: but it's something that is unusual in our time.
Speaker 3: We have not usually seen this in the past.
Speaker 14: Yeah, And I think that what society has done is
Speaker 14: really erased.
Speaker 13: Men as anything important.
Speaker 14: And men have lost their identity, and they've lost their
Speaker 14: honor and their respect and their hard work, ethics and
Speaker 14: all those types of things. And we've been we've been neutralized,
Speaker 14: if you will. And I think what we see is
Speaker 14: more men are seeking truth because they're starting to pay attention,
Speaker 14: you know, as the politics and all that are ebbing
Speaker 14: and flowing, you know, pro this anti that the question is, well,
Speaker 14: what's real anymore? That's what we really need to know.
Speaker 13: What's real? What can I hang my hat on?
Speaker 14: And men who've lost their identity want a true identity,
Speaker 14: they don't want to create a fake one.
Speaker 13: And I think a lot of.
Speaker 14: That drives their desire to say, well, let's try this
Speaker 14: God thing, because I haven't tried that. So, you know,
Speaker 14: you see this resurgence, and particularly in the colleges and
Speaker 14: all that, which is very interesting because you know, they
Speaker 14: always say, if you want to indoctrinate a society, you
Speaker 14: start very young.
Speaker 13: You know.
Speaker 14: I remember in elementary school they were teaching us how
Speaker 14: smoking was bad, even though you know, in fifth grade
Speaker 14: I never thought about smoking.
Speaker 13: That it was in a doctrination.
Speaker 14: They're trying to stop it before it happens, right, And
Speaker 14: so now you see these young men who have gone
Speaker 14: through and they don't even know which bathroom to use anymore.
Speaker 14: And now all of a sudden, they're in college and
Speaker 14: they're like, hey, I need to grow up now and
Speaker 14: you know, be somebody. I need to think about raising
Speaker 14: a family and getting a career or all this. But
Speaker 14: I don't even know who I am anymore. And society
Speaker 14: has kind of eliminated the male as being something good.
Speaker 14: It's been looked at as a bad thing for such
Speaker 14: a long time that nobody wants to be one anymore.
Speaker 14: But you know, short of surgery, you don't have a
Speaker 14: whole lot of choice, right.
Speaker 13: You are what God made you.
Speaker 14: So can we make something of ourselves and can it
Speaker 14: be the best that we can be?
Speaker 13: And the answer, of course.
Speaker 14: Is yes, it's just going to take a different way
Speaker 14: of thinking instead of jumping on the bandwagon with the world.
Speaker 14: We need to do what God does, go anti world.
Speaker 14: My ways are not your ways, My thoughts are not
Speaker 14: your thoughts, and basically.
Speaker 13: Restore the dignity of being male.
Speaker 14: It's not that it's superior, but it is equally important at.
Speaker 13: Least, right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, basically what the world has done, I think,
Speaker 2: And it is a kind of adversity, you know, people
Speaker 2: turning to God out of adversity. Of course, that can
Speaker 2: be a lot of different things. It can be your health, economics,
Speaker 2: it can be society in general. But in this particular case,
Speaker 2: I think there's a tremendous amount of adversity because society
Speaker 2: has decided that they're going to take away the role
Speaker 2: of man and give it to women. And so now
Speaker 2: what do I do? Right, I can't get into this
Speaker 2: college because they won't even let me in. They're going
Speaker 2: to give preference to a woman with us or whatever,
Speaker 2: or into a job. And so it creates a real
Speaker 2: system of adversity. As you point out, people are looking
Speaker 2: for the meaning in their life. You know, where can
Speaker 2: I find meaning in this? And whatever kind of adversity
Speaker 2: we're going through. Whether it's individually or you know, collectively
Speaker 2: or a group of people that are suffering from this adversity,
Speaker 2: it is something that is always that's the kind of
Speaker 2: thing that actually can be a real blessing in disguise.
Speaker 14: Right, right, Well, once we start to recognize that God's
Speaker 14: structure in the Bible talks about the man being responsible
Speaker 14: for the head of his household, and society is reversing that.
Speaker 14: Why because society always is looking for the anti God
Speaker 14: way of doing things.
Speaker 13: That's right, because that's again our human nature.
Speaker 14: Our human nature is to stand on our own two feet,
Speaker 14: and we don't need anybody, and we certainly don't need
Speaker 14: a God. And so these are the kinds of things. Well,
Speaker 14: if God's principle is to put is to make the
Speaker 14: male the head of the household, let's undo that. Let's
Speaker 14: emasculate the male, and you know, take that out of
Speaker 14: the equation because that's anti God. And anything that's anti
Speaker 14: God is seen as good because in the end times,
Speaker 14: good is bad and bad is good.
Speaker 13: Right to do that and see.
Speaker 2: That, But that's right, yeah, absolutely, So who'd you say
Speaker 2: this book is for if you're going to encapsulate this.
Speaker 14: You know, there's a lot of what I said earlier
Speaker 14: about label Christians, people who who have done the minimum
Speaker 14: requirements to be a Christian, but they aren't really.
Speaker 13: They aren't really.
Speaker 14: Advancing in their Christianity. So first and foremost most of
Speaker 14: it is because they don't understand who they are and
Speaker 14: who their God is, and so understanding and learning how
Speaker 14: to read scripture the way it's designed to be read
Speaker 14: helps that kind of person. Then you have stagnant Christians,
Speaker 14: people who have reached a plateau, either because they've found
Speaker 14: a level of satisfaction in their Christianity and they don't
Speaker 14: really want more, or they've hit the ceiling because you know,
Speaker 14: what they've been taught all along is so lightweight, milk level,
Speaker 14: and they're really looking for where is the bread? Where
Speaker 14: is the meat in this relationship? Is this really all
Speaker 14: there is? I found myself in that situation in the
Speaker 14: early days of my Christianity. I started in my teen years,
Speaker 14: so I wasn't raised in a Christian home by any means,
Speaker 14: but I was disillusioned because you know, they said, all
Speaker 14: you got to do is walk down the aisle and
Speaker 14: invite Jesus into your heart, and you know, then come
Speaker 14: to church on Sundays and it's like, wow, is that
Speaker 14: really all there is.
Speaker 13: To this deal?
Speaker 14: That seems a little too too easy, right, And if
Speaker 14: it's too good, it probably is when you're looking to
Speaker 14: go deeper and you're looking to understand and you want
Speaker 14: to figure yourself out, and you want to figure out
Speaker 14: this God thing and you want Christianity to mean something,
Speaker 14: then the book really speaks to.
Speaker 13: That level as well.
Speaker 14: But actually, you know, there's a big section in the
Speaker 14: book that talks about the Bible itself, the history of it,
Speaker 14: how it's written, how it's designed, where it comes from,
Speaker 14: and it gives you a solid understanding of the book.
Speaker 14: And that alone would cause even a non believer to say, wow,
Speaker 14: if all of this is true, there's really something substantive here.
Speaker 14: This is really something I should try to investigate. Actually,
Speaker 14: my wife and I we have a few children who
Speaker 14: aren't Christians, effectually more that aren't than are, and encouraging
Speaker 14: them to read this book if for Noah's a reason
Speaker 14: to understand what it is they're choosing.
Speaker 13: To not believe in.
Speaker 14: And so this section that talks about the Bible and
Speaker 14: it's all historical fact and it's non religious, historical fact.
Speaker 14: You know, it's archives and histories and these types of things,
Speaker 14: but written in a way that anybody can understand. So
Speaker 14: it's not heavy theological. None of my books really are,
Speaker 14: because really what I want to do is talk to
Speaker 14: the average person right in a way that they can
Speaker 14: understand and appreciate and identify. So in that sense, you know,
Speaker 14: even a non believer could read this and say, wow,
Speaker 14: I had no idea when I read this junk before
Speaker 14: in my life that it actually was talking about me.
Speaker 14: And like I said before me, that's our favorite subject,
Speaker 14: right of course.
Speaker 13: We want to read all about ourselves.
Speaker 14: So if we can learn how to do that and
Speaker 14: see ourselves in scripture. Really the book is for so
Speaker 14: many different audiences, but for different reasons.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you know, let's say it does cerly is
Speaker 2: a history book, but there's so many other aspects to
Speaker 2: it as well. You know, what, you get into science
Speaker 2: and you start looking at different things, whether it's astronomy
Speaker 2: or whether it's microbiology or all these other things, and
Speaker 2: you start seeing intelligent design either in the universe. We
Speaker 2: just had one of the astronauts who came back and
Speaker 2: he's an atheist, and he just felt like it was
Speaker 2: a religious experience for him, just to see creation. And
Speaker 2: of course we're told, but you know, day after day
Speaker 2: and night after night it pours out speech, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't you know, you don't hear it in words, but
Speaker 2: you see it that is there, and you know that
Speaker 2: there is a creator that is behind all of this stuff.
Speaker 2: And so when you look at it from that standpoint,
Speaker 2: I found over the years as I would get involved
Speaker 2: in science or different things like that, it just it
Speaker 2: kept like layers of an onion that kept going back.
Speaker 2: I remember going to SeaWorld with the kids and we're
Speaker 2: looking at the penguins swimming and they have an observation
Speaker 2: thing where you're below the water level and you can
Speaker 2: see them swimming in the water and they're actually flying.
Speaker 2: A lot about it, I thought, yeah, they're actually flying.
Speaker 2: It's just that they're going through a thicker fluid than air,
Speaker 2: is right, because you know, normally you've got to have
Speaker 2: the you know, flight is about having a big engine
Speaker 2: that's going to pull you through the air quickly enough
Speaker 2: that it's going to increase the effective viscosity of the fluids.
Speaker 2: So these are you know, they're they're flying, but they're
Speaker 2: flying in the water. And then I thought about that,
Speaker 2: and I thought, you know, now, why would Moses group
Speaker 2: together the things that fly and the things that swim.
Speaker 2: At the same time, he wasn't an engineer, he wasn't
Speaker 2: interested in aerodynamics, knew nothing about the science of aerodynamics
Speaker 2: or fluids or anything like that. So you constantly see
Speaker 2: these types of things as they come back. You know,
Speaker 2: if you've got if you've read the Bible and you've
Speaker 2: looked at some of this stuff, it'll come back to
Speaker 2: you and it's like, oh, so that's why, you know,
Speaker 2: God created the things that fly and the things that
Speaker 2: or now he classifies him as a matter of fact.
Speaker 2: You know, on this day, I create the things that
Speaker 2: are moving in this way, and on that day, I
Speaker 2: create the things that are moving in that way. And
Speaker 2: it's like, so, why would he do that? It's kind
Speaker 2: of strange classification until you look at it and then
Speaker 2: it makes sense. And so there's things like that that
Speaker 2: just keep coming back. And when I look at this
Speaker 2: and you're talking about our relationship with God and what
Speaker 2: does it say about us that it made me think
Speaker 2: to him about the Westminster Confession, which again goes back
Speaker 2: several hundred years, A lot of people use that what
Speaker 2: is the chief end of man is to glorify God
Speaker 2: and to enjoy him forever?
Speaker 14: Right right, Well, Solomon came up with the same thing.
Speaker 14: I had all the money in the world, all the
Speaker 14: wisdom in the world. Why and women in song, all
Speaker 14: those things. If the head rock music back then, he'd
Speaker 14: have had that too. He had basically everything. And how
Speaker 14: does he sum the whole thing up? Yeah, all he
Speaker 14: says in the end is ultimately all of that was
Speaker 14: just grasping at the wind, and the only thing of
Speaker 14: any value whatsoever is just to have a relationship and
Speaker 14: a respect for God. If we can't learn a lesson
Speaker 14: from the one person who truly did have everything everything
Speaker 14: a man ever dreams of, he had it all, And
Speaker 14: yet in the end he says it's all worthless. And
Speaker 14: that's true because where is all that wealth today? Where
Speaker 14: is all that gold and silver and all? Nobody knows?
Speaker 14: It evaporated? It went to you know, different kingdoms, different people.
Speaker 13: Who knows.
Speaker 14: We might even be wearing it a ring on our finger.
Speaker 13: We don't really even know.
Speaker 14: Because it wasn't about the stuff. The stuff was worthless.
Speaker 14: It was about the relationship with God. That is really
Speaker 14: the chief end to man. It's actually the chief beginning
Speaker 14: of man, because once we understand that and we can
Speaker 14: relate to God, we can actually really live. We live
Speaker 14: with a lot of fear in our lives. But if
Speaker 14: we understand that God's in control, what is it we're
Speaker 14: afraid of?
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 14: Yeah, we're not really understanding that, are we.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: Try to remind people that all the time because I
Speaker 2: covered the news, and the news is just fear based. Actually,
Speaker 2: you know, you don't see too much that's good news anymore.
Speaker 2: But there is a good news, but that's pretty much
Speaker 2: limited to Christ and to God, and you know, glorifying
Speaker 2: him in a way that is enjoying him. It's praising
Speaker 2: him and glorifying him. So that really is almost redundant
Speaker 2: there in a sense, except that.
Speaker 13: As humans, we don't want to hear the good news.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 14: He seemed to be drawn to the bad news.
Speaker 13: Why is that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 14: That's that another one of those human behaviors. It's anti
Speaker 14: God behavior.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 13: Well, it's good good news, we prefer the bad news,
Speaker 13: that's right.
Speaker 2: It's what you were talking about with you know, immediately
Speaker 2: they get delivered out of Egypt, and right away they're
Speaker 2: building an idol of golden calf or whatever. And then
Speaker 2: later on, as you point out, they want something that
Speaker 2: is tangible, that's physical, that they can focus on. That's
Speaker 2: right there. So what they do they ask for a king,
Speaker 2: right rather than having God, which you know, God is
Speaker 2: not some one that they can look at right there,
Speaker 2: So they want to replace him with a king, you know.
Speaker 2: And so he says to Samuel, they haven't rejected you.
Speaker 2: They rejected me.
Speaker 13: Even though they were warned.
Speaker 15: Yeah, what a king would do if they said, I
Speaker 15: don't care, I want him anyway, that's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I was with the Libertarian Party and we
Speaker 2: were doing stuff that that was one passage that they
Speaker 2: all knew. They said, So, you know, they asked for
Speaker 2: a king, and they said, so he's going to tax you,
Speaker 2: he's going to send your young men to war, and
Speaker 2: all the other kind of stuff that say, that's what
Speaker 2: government does. And but of course it doesn't really appeal
Speaker 2: to people. You can't really convince them anymore than Samuel
Speaker 2: could convince the Israelites at that point in time.
Speaker 14: Well, I think we prefer to sit around and complain
Speaker 14: about our government, not only Yeah, it doesn't.
Speaker 13: Matter who our government is.
Speaker 14: We'll find something to come plain about, that's right, And
Speaker 14: we'll just slip one side to the other, back and forth,
Speaker 14: back and forth. Good king's bad kings, right, because that's
Speaker 14: what we do as humans, that's right, relying on God.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can lay it off on them and if
Speaker 2: it goes bad, it's their fault, but of course there
Speaker 2: won't be any any punishment for them either. Well, it's
Speaker 2: a wonderful talking to you about this. And again, if
Speaker 2: you are somebody who's out there looking for meaning in
Speaker 2: your life, or you're going through adversity or whatever, we
Speaker 2: would recommend that you take a look at the Bible.
Speaker 2: And this is a tool I think that will help
Speaker 2: you to do that wisely, and kind of walk alongside
Speaker 2: of you and give you some pointers and how to
Speaker 2: understand it and how to really apply it in your life.
Speaker 2: That's always a good thing. Of course, you know, God
Speaker 2: is going to be our teacher. He has promised that
Speaker 2: Christ promised the Holy Spirit to Christians to guide them
Speaker 2: and to teach them. But he's also told us that
Speaker 2: iron sharp thans iron, and so I think this is
Speaker 2: something this book, the Book of Us, I think is
Speaker 2: something that would really helped to sharpen you as well. Again,
Speaker 2: Tim mulgrew is the author and the book is the
Speaker 2: Book of Us. Thank you so much, Tim. I really
Speaker 2: appreciate talking to you.
Speaker 14: It's very interesting, Yeah, very I love these kind of conversations.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, it's very important, a very important conversation to have,
Speaker 2: the one between you and God. And I think that's
Speaker 2: a key takeaway that you've got in your book. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for joining us.
Speaker 10: Thank you.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the David Knight Show.
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Speaker 2: Joining us now is the CEO of a company called Pebble.
Speaker 2: His name is John Shively and this company is focused,
Speaker 2: I believe on copper. At least that's what we're talking
Speaker 2: about in terms of this interview, the need for copper.
Speaker 3: When we'll talk about.
Speaker 2: The opposition from the Trump administration on this, which is
Speaker 2: really kind of surprising. We see Donald Trump saying we
Speaker 2: need to be completely self sufficient in the United States.
Speaker 2: And yet, as we've seen with rare earth and with
Speaker 2: many other minerals, if we don't have the fundamental building blocks,
Speaker 2: whether we're talking about copper or aluminium or rare earth,
Speaker 2: we're not going to be able to build anything because
Speaker 2: China is going to if they've got a monopoly on this,
Speaker 2: that they're going to make it difficult for people domestically
Speaker 2: to manufacture with that. So we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: the issues of the general opposition to mining that is
Speaker 2: faced in the United States with mister Shively. So thank
Speaker 2: you for joining us. I thank you, David layout for
Speaker 2: us a little bit. Where we stand in terms of copper.
Speaker 2: Do we have a lot of copper in the United States?
Speaker 2: How are we in terms of being able to produce
Speaker 2: and manufacture that and get it online even if we
Speaker 2: have it in the ground. Where do we stand on that?
Speaker 12: Well? I think we have plenty of copper in this country.
Speaker 12: You know, Bubble is the largest undeveloped copper project in
Speaker 12: the world. But you know there's a large resolution in Arizona.
Speaker 12: This is large copper deposit up in northern Minnesota, and others.
Speaker 12: So we have the copper we need if we can develop.
Speaker 12: But I think that you know, the thing that people
Speaker 12: need to understand is the role that the Chinese are
Speaker 12: currently playing in mineral development and mineral and particularly mineral processing.
Speaker 12: There's a study that was done by S and P
Speaker 12: Global recently that says that by twenty forty we'll have
Speaker 12: a ten million ton deficit worldwide of copper. And the
Speaker 12: Chinese have seen this coming for some time, so you know,
Speaker 12: they have a whole different way of doing things. You know,
Speaker 12: if they want a copper processing plant, they build it.
Speaker 12: If they need more power to run that plant, they
Speaker 12: build it. They have no processing or no environmental process,
Speaker 12: no litigation, none of that. In this country. It takes
Speaker 12: an average of twenty nine years from when you find
Speaker 12: to when you actually can be mining. It were the
Speaker 12: second worst in the world.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's regulatory hang up with that that you're talking about,
Speaker 2: because as you point out, and the materiity sent to me,
Speaker 2: Beijing is doing it in five years. So you know,
Speaker 2: it takes a while to actually build something and to
Speaker 2: exploit it. The rest of that time going between five
Speaker 2: years and twenty nine years. The rest of that is
Speaker 2: in terms of investigation and approval processes and that type
Speaker 2: of thing.
Speaker 12: And don't forget litigation, which you can add anywhere from
Speaker 12: three to ten years now.
Speaker 2: You pointed out in the op ed piece that you
Speaker 2: did that was published on Fox that Donald Trump Junior
Speaker 2: opposed this early on. He was concerned about phishing and
Speaker 2: that sport fishing. I think it was tell us a
Speaker 2: little bit about the site that's there in Alaska. This
Speaker 2: is one that we're talking about.
Speaker 12: Yeah, actually I didn't point it out Fox News conveniently
Speaker 12: for me. So well, first of all, I want to
Speaker 12: talk about that. I think, you know, he has a
Speaker 12: different view now, maybe because of the Nations and his
Speaker 12: dad's emphasis on getting critical minerals so that we can
Speaker 12: be independent of those. But we sit in a sensitive area.
Speaker 12: We've always understood that it's in the Bristol Bay area
Speaker 12: that's the largest socc fishery in the world, and we've
Speaker 12: always known that we needed to be especially concerned about
Speaker 12: the environment, and so we went through a permitting process
Speaker 12: back starting in twenty seventeen. We got an environmental impact
Speaker 12: statement that said we can do this project without harming
Speaker 12: the fish. And then politics got involved and the Corp
Speaker 12: of Engineers turned down our We appealed that decision and
Speaker 12: won our appeal. That got remanded back to the corp
Speaker 12: of Engineers. But by then the Biden administration had come in.
Speaker 12: They did nothing with it while they let the EPA
Speaker 12: come up with a decision to basic veto not only
Speaker 12: the whole project but close off mining at a two
Speaker 12: hundred and twenty thousand acre area in Alaska of land
Speaker 12: that's owned by the State of Alaska and was specifically
Speaker 12: gotten by the State of Alaska because they knew there
Speaker 12: was some mineral potential in that area.
Speaker 2: And of course you have been involved in the State
Speaker 2: of Alaska in terms of what was your position there
Speaker 2: in terms of resources.
Speaker 12: I was Commissioner Natural Resources for about six years for.
Speaker 2: The state, all right, and so the state wanted to
Speaker 2: do this, but the federal government is coming in and
Speaker 2: saying that they can't do that. And you know, we
Speaker 2: kind of I jumped ahead a little bit with some
Speaker 2: of this, but you know, we talked about the bigger
Speaker 2: picture here. You pointed out in your stats that right
Speaker 2: now we import about half of the copper that we use.
Speaker 2: I think it's forty five percent or something like that
Speaker 2: if this were to come online, that would drop us
Speaker 2: to by about fifteen points. It take us down to
Speaker 2: about so we go from about a half of the
Speaker 2: copper that we use being imported to about a third.
Speaker 2: And it's a huge amount of copper that is there.
Speaker 2: And of course why is copper so important. Well, that
Speaker 2: gets in the way of all their agendas. I mean,
Speaker 2: the Trump administration is not pushing like the Biden administration
Speaker 2: did for electrical vehicles, but everything that you electrify that's
Speaker 2: pretty much going to be copper wiring. And so if
Speaker 2: they want to have their AI data centers that they're
Speaker 2: looking down the road, they're not going to have the
Speaker 2: material to build that unless they can get it from China.
Speaker 2: And so this is kind of the it's kind of
Speaker 2: interesting when you look at it. It moves very quickly
Speaker 2: on these different agendas, and you know, if that is
Speaker 2: his agenda, he hasn't really thought it through what it's
Speaker 2: going to take to make this happen. In the same
Speaker 2: way that we saw with rare earth. The rare earths
Speaker 2: are not rare, it's just rare for anybody to be
Speaker 2: set up to process them. And yet they didn't wait
Speaker 2: until they had processing plants before they essentially cut that
Speaker 2: off with the trade wars and the terraces.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean China has a whole different system than
Speaker 12: we do. I mean they basically control the whole supply
Speaker 12: chain from getting the concentrate either from their own country
Speaker 12: or from other countries, processing that into metal, and then
Speaker 12: putting the metal into whether it's what now is a
Speaker 12: huge ev industry, refrigerators, solar panels, all of that, and
Speaker 12: when they want to do stuff, they do it. They
Speaker 12: currently do process about half the world's copper in this country.
Speaker 12: We have plenty of copper. I mean, if you look
Speaker 12: at us, if you look at resolution in Arizona, if
Speaker 12: you look at twin Metals up in Minnesota, you know
Speaker 12: the copper is there. But there's a piece of it
Speaker 12: that requires I think a lot of thought and a
Speaker 12: lot of investment, and that is the processing. So mining
Speaker 12: is basically, in my mind, three steps. You blow up
Speaker 12: the rock, you take the rock with the ore, and
Speaker 12: it you process into something called concentrate. So like for us,
Speaker 12: the ore would have a one percent minimalization, the concentrate
Speaker 12: would have about twenty six. And then you take the
Speaker 12: concentrate and make the metal. Well, we haven't built a
Speaker 12: new metal copper processing place in this country in probably
Speaker 12: three or four decades. Meanwhile, China's been building them left
Speaker 12: and right.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like coal plants, you know, we don't
Speaker 2: want to use the coal anymore. I remember one point
Speaker 2: in time, we were told that after the Opay coil embargo,
Speaker 2: we were told and I saved the magazines because I
Speaker 2: thought it was ludicrous at the time. Even they said, oh,
Speaker 2: we're going to be out of oil and asked by
Speaker 2: the mid nineteen eighties. But we've got six hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty six years of coal left.
Speaker 3: So what's the first thing they've banned coal? You know?
Speaker 12: Well, and of course we've been at quote peak oil
Speaker 12: several times since then, and right now, I don't think
Speaker 12: we've ever reached peak oil because technology keeps getting better
Speaker 12: in that decision, right, if you look minding in the investment,
Speaker 12: I mean, you know, we've spent a billion dollars already.
Speaker 12: Resolution in Arizona has spent two billion. Neither one of
Speaker 12: us have gotten announced or out of the ground to process.
Speaker 12: I mean, and eventually, if these big projects like Pebble
Speaker 12: resolution twin metals can't get going then people will stop
Speaker 12: investing in mining in the US and then to get
Speaker 12: back to processing a little bit. The other problem that
Speaker 12: we have, and it's happened with rare earths, is we
Speaker 12: start to build something up and then the Chinese undercut
Speaker 12: in price. So right now, for instance, for processing copper,
Speaker 12: China is paying people to take their concentrate and process it,
Speaker 12: which is basically unheard of. But because they can then
Speaker 12: take the metal and make all this other stuff, they
Speaker 12: don't care about that. Whereas if we start processing plants
Speaker 12: are usually they're sometimes associated with the mining companies usually,
Speaker 12: but you know, you need to make a profit, and
Speaker 12: those are billion, multi billion dollar investments. And so how
Speaker 12: the country faces that issue of getting processing, because that's
Speaker 12: the only way we become independent with metals is to
Speaker 12: be able to process it here, mine it here, and
Speaker 12: process it here.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, they've got all these grandiose plans of artificial intelligence,
Speaker 2: which a lot of those plans I don't agree with
Speaker 2: because the government's going to be using them for surveillance
Speaker 2: and other things like that that don't concern me a
Speaker 2: great deal. But they've got these big plans for AI.
Speaker 2: And yet how you're going to manufacture that. How you're
Speaker 2: going to build the data centers if we can't manufacture
Speaker 2: even the copper wire and things like that. They don't
Speaker 2: really think these things through. Everybody thinks, well, it's going
Speaker 2: to be this nice, clean software environment, but you know,
Speaker 2: there is a physical world out there that has to
Speaker 2: make that virtual world happen, and people don't really think
Speaker 2: that through. When you talk about the processing versus the mining,
Speaker 2: are you doing the processing as well as the mining
Speaker 2: or is that you know, how does that operate with
Speaker 2: your company?
Speaker 12: Well, you know, we'll do the first two steps for sure.
Speaker 12: So we'll blow up the rock and we'll take that
Speaker 12: rock and make it into a concentrate. We are looking
Speaker 12: at a way to process it in Alaska, and we've
Speaker 12: got consultants investigating that right now. We think there's a
Speaker 12: different technology. Usually the processing has been what's called smelting,
Speaker 12: which is high heat and has you know, air quality issues.
Speaker 12: There's a processing called hydro metallurgy that uses liquids and
Speaker 12: pressure basically to get the metal to come out of
Speaker 12: the concentrate. So we would like to do that because
Speaker 12: we think it's important.
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk a little bit about what their concerns
Speaker 2: are because you know, when I've looked at the coal
Speaker 2: industry for example, you know, burning coal, we can make
Speaker 2: coal power plants that are very clean. I can spend
Speaker 2: extra money to have scrubbers and things like that. But
Speaker 2: they got to the point where they labeled it as
Speaker 2: something that's dirty. We don't even want to think about that.
Speaker 2: We're not even going to try to clean that process
Speaker 2: up in any way, shape or form. We've seen it
Speaker 2: with cars that you can take car exhaust and you
Speaker 2: can spend extra money to clean it up and you
Speaker 2: can actually get those missions down to essentially zero. But
Speaker 2: again they drive the nail in the ground and say no,
Speaker 2: there will be no ternal combustion engines. Talk to us
Speaker 2: a little bit about the process with us, and what
Speaker 2: would you say to people to assuage their concerns about
Speaker 2: the environment and how it's going to impact the fishing stuff.
Speaker 2: What did your studies show and how do you operate
Speaker 2: with that?
Speaker 12: Well, the Environmental Impacts statement basically showed that we can
Speaker 12: do the process, do the mining, make the concentrate, store
Speaker 12: the tailings, which is the big issue. It's the sort
Speaker 12: of waste that sorts over from the processing. Our processing
Speaker 12: concentrate that we can do that. We have made some
Speaker 12: major design changes from what have been traditional impoundment storage facilities,
Speaker 12: water processing and things like that because the environments so
Speaker 12: sensitive there. And you know, I was approached in two
Speaker 12: thousand and eight to take the job as CEO. I've
Speaker 12: been in and out once in out and back in
Speaker 12: as CEO. But when I started, I told the two
Speaker 12: companies that were the owner companies that I didn't know
Speaker 12: at the time whether we could do this project environmentally
Speaker 12: since I had been involved in another major mining project up
Speaker 12: north of the Arctic Circle that was on Native of
Speaker 12: Alaska indigenous lands, where we got mining company to come
Speaker 12: in and develop one of the largest saint lead mines
Speaker 12: in the country, which changed the whole economics of that
Speaker 12: region because there were not economic opportunities.
Speaker 3: And that's part of it. You know, we talked about jobs.
Speaker 2: Everybody says, well, you know, we don't want the service jobs,
Speaker 2: we want the manufacturing jobs. Well, the manufacturing jobs come
Speaker 2: with some some.
Speaker 3: Issues that you have to address.
Speaker 13: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the things that China does, as you said,
Speaker 2: they just they just do whatever the government wishes. They
Speaker 2: don't really care about any pollution issues we do. That
Speaker 2: is something that we do want to do something about,
Speaker 2: and yet there are solutions that can be had to
Speaker 2: that is like a you know, we either have manufacturing
Speaker 2: and pollution everywhere, or we don't have any manufacturing. That's
Speaker 2: not the trade off. The trade off, as I've seen
Speaker 2: over and over again. I don't know about your particular industry.
Speaker 2: I haven't looked at it, but the trade off that
Speaker 2: I've seen over and over again is a trade off
Speaker 2: in terms of maybe it costs us a little bit
Speaker 2: more because we've got to go through some extra steps,
Speaker 2: but it can be done in a clean way.
Speaker 12: Yeah. I mean, you know, if you're a true environmentalist,
Speaker 12: you'd want to develop in the US because we have
Speaker 12: some of the highest standards. I mean, there are other
Speaker 12: countries that are about the same, but we're right at
Speaker 12: the top of the environmental standards. But you know a
Speaker 12: couple of things. One these things are money raising opportunities
Speaker 12: for the environmentalists. You know, they can only raise money
Speaker 12: by being negative. They cannot raise money by saying, oh, yeah,
Speaker 12: I think this mine is environmentally okay, we're all they
Speaker 12: have to be opposed to it. And the other thing
Speaker 12: is they're not held to any standards of truth. Uh,
Speaker 12: you know, if they're a pharmaceutical company, they'd be sued
Speaker 12: all the time because they do not tell the truth.
Speaker 12: And it's a problem. You know, if I were in
Speaker 12: the Chinese government, I'd be sitting over there sort of
Speaker 12: chuckling about, Gee, this is the way US is doing it.
Speaker 12: They'll never catch up with us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's kind of the sort of thing
Speaker 2: that we saw with the Southern Property Law Center. You know,
Speaker 2: they place fast and loose with the truth, and they
Speaker 2: only raise money if they come up with the problems.
Speaker 2: So you know, for them, they're gonna they're gonna fund
Speaker 2: the Ku Klux Klan. So they got a problems that's
Speaker 2: out there. But I get your point. That's exactly what
Speaker 2: is going on with it. But so tell us a
Speaker 2: little bit about what it is that you do to mitigate.
Speaker 2: You said that things have changed somewhat from the way
Speaker 2: it used to be done. I know when they were
Speaker 2: talking about the one that is the resolution one that's
Speaker 2: down in Arizona, people talking about how it was going
Speaker 2: to create a gigantic crater, and they were concerned about
Speaker 2: that because it was in the middle of a that
Speaker 2: was middle of a national park or something, as well
Speaker 2: as an area that the apaches had a large attachment
Speaker 2: to as well. So how has how has that changed?
Speaker 12: Well, I mean that isn't she With mining, I mean
Speaker 12: generally there is a you know, you're going to end
Speaker 12: up with a large crater. In the case of resolution,
Speaker 12: they're an underground mine, but you get subsidence when you
Speaker 12: take or out from underneath it. For we will start
Speaker 12: with an open pit mine. Well probably ultimately, I mean
Speaker 12: we've got seventy two hundred years of resource that we
Speaker 12: know about now, we would end up with also a
Speaker 12: large crater which would ultimately become a lake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. That's typically
Speaker 2: what happens to these It's kind of like when you
Speaker 2: got a landfill. I know in Virginia Beach where we
Speaker 2: have some relatives, they have this mount trash more or
Speaker 2: something came up. You know, you got to do something
Speaker 2: with the trash. I mean, unfortunately, it's a necessity. So
Speaker 2: you know, once they get the landfill really large, they
Speaker 2: basically they put grass over it and all the rest
Speaker 2: of that, and they've now got a large park out
Speaker 2: there with a mountain in an area where they typically
Speaker 2: wouldn't have a mountain before. So you're talking about having
Speaker 2: it be a large lake that would be their recreational
Speaker 2: lake eventually.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 12: So, and you know, our tailings and foundment facility is
Speaker 12: this is a technical thing that it is probably you
Speaker 12: don't need to spend the time on, but it is
Speaker 12: a different kind of design that both protects it from
Speaker 12: failing and also protects it from liquefying, which is one
Speaker 12: of the reasons that tailings impoundment facilities fail. And I know,
Speaker 12: as I said, we have a very sophisticated water treatment plan,
Speaker 12: but you know, I do see that, you know, some
Speaker 12: things are changing in the country for the better in
Speaker 12: this regard. I don't want to be all negative. First
Speaker 12: of all, there is now is a recognition that we
Speaker 12: are going to need these metals, and you know, whether
Speaker 12: it's for the AI. One of the things people forget
Speaker 12: about is defense. I mean, you know, jets, submarines, battleships,
Speaker 12: air carriers, I mean tons and tons of copper and
Speaker 12: also ernium, which we have, so people forget about that.
Speaker 12: But there was a sort of a positive thing last
Speaker 12: week in Washington when the Senate confirmed a resolution coming
Speaker 12: out of the House under something called the Congressional Review
Speaker 12: Act that revoked a two hundred and twenty thousand acre
Speaker 12: land set aside under the Biden administration that would have
Speaker 12: prevented the Twin Metals mine in northern Minnesota. And so
Speaker 12: that was voted. It's very close, fifty to forty nine.
Speaker 12: But in that kind of vote it only requires a majority.
Speaker 12: You don't have to get to sixty and so that'll
Speaker 12: go to the President's desk. And so I think people
Speaker 12: are beginning to understand this. But the opposition is huge
Speaker 12: and well organized, and there are people who think that
Speaker 12: the opposition has connections to China. I have never seen that,
Speaker 12: although we did have one instance with us where there
Speaker 12: was it looked like interference from the Chinese in cooperation
Speaker 12: with the with the environmental movement. So, as I said earlier,
Speaker 12: I do know they're very happy with how long it
Speaker 12: takes us to.
Speaker 2: Get a major Yeah, well that's the key. And you
Speaker 2: know this is a long term project. That's another thing
Speaker 2: that works against you. I think Americans don't think long term.
Speaker 2: We want immediate gratification. If this is something that is
Speaker 2: addressing a problem, that's going to be years down the
Speaker 2: road or decades down the road. We can't really be
Speaker 2: bothered with that. Yeah, let me think about it.
Speaker 12: I mean that's been you know. I think a problem
Speaker 12: also for investment in mining because it is difficult to
Speaker 12: get going. As I said earlier, twenty nine years average.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 12: You know, everything gets litigated that generally adds you know,
Speaker 12: three to ten years, as I said, and then constructing
Speaker 12: a mine of the size of pebble is a three
Speaker 12: to four year and you know, six to eight billion
Speaker 12: dollar investment, you know, so you go out twenty nine years,
Speaker 12: you spend as we have in resolution, have billions of
Speaker 12: dollars before you even start, and then you got to construct.
Speaker 12: And yeah, it's not something that happens overnight. And people
Speaker 12: that are used to getting electricity by hitting a switch,
Speaker 12: I think that's where it comes from. Do not understand
Speaker 12: what it takes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we used to.
Speaker 2: I used to work with a group that was based
Speaker 2: on energy and was essentially opposing a lot of the
Speaker 2: climate change stuff. And they would go around and talk
Speaker 2: to people that have a public meeting or something and say,
Speaker 2: you know what, what's your favorite source of energy and
Speaker 2: said it never failed. Somebody said electricity. That's not the source,
Speaker 2: that's the product that's produced. How do we generate though?
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, just all I know is
Speaker 2: I go to the grocery store and I buy this
Speaker 2: meat and plastic packages, you know, and that's what I eat,
Speaker 2: that type of thing. So there is no there's a
Speaker 2: real disconnect in terms of production of anything, whether you're
Speaker 2: talking about food or energy or material in this country.
Speaker 2: And there's nothing that is absolutely perfect, I think, you know.
Speaker 2: So that's really the issue, the devil's and the details,
Speaker 2: and we have a lot of absolutism. I think that
Speaker 2: comes from these different groups that we've talked about, and
Speaker 2: they don't want to consider any solutions. You know, they
Speaker 2: run into an obstacle or they see something that is
Speaker 2: on a downside, and they just want to shut it
Speaker 2: down at their reflexes, to shut it down completely and preemptively.
Speaker 2: And so I think that we need to take a
Speaker 2: closer look at some of these things and see if.
Speaker 3: There's a problem.
Speaker 2: We don't want to take the approach of the Chinese
Speaker 2: take where we just we don't care about anything, you know,
Speaker 2: that's one of the things that they have done. They
Speaker 2: don't care about pollution. They don't clean up their coal plants.
Speaker 2: They build a ton of them and they just run
Speaker 2: them cheap and dirty. We don't necessarily want to do that,
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of money. You know, the wealth
Speaker 2: of this country is really going to come from manufacturing,
Speaker 2: if you will, and so there is money in that
Speaker 2: they can pay to clean some of these things up
Speaker 2: in a way that we can still proceed forward with it.
Speaker 12: Well, and really it's cheaper to get it right in
Speaker 12: the beginning, I mean, particularly in this country. So yeah,
Speaker 12: you can get it wrong, but it's going to cost
Speaker 12: you a lot of money to get it wrong. That's right,
Speaker 12: which is a good thing. I mean, that's the way
Speaker 12: it should be.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: So as it stands right now, you are at what
Speaker 2: point in your stage? I mean you've had some preliminary
Speaker 2: approvals I think at some stage, but then they took
Speaker 2: it back and it's very political in terms of the
Speaker 2: pendulum swinging back and forth. That's not true only of
Speaker 2: your project. That is true of pretty much everything in
Speaker 2: terms of manufacturing. So where does it stand right now?
Speaker 12: Well, we're in litigation. So we sued the EPA under
Speaker 12: the Biden administration when basically vetoed US. We thought that
Speaker 12: Trump administration might want to withdraw the veto. They decided
Speaker 12: not to, so they have supported the EPA veto, which
Speaker 12: I'm not totally surprised about. It has some ramifications for
Speaker 12: them in the future because the way EPA used that
Speaker 12: VETO can be used against a lot of mining and
Speaker 12: energy projects that the Trump administration would lie. So defending
Speaker 12: the use of the VETO in a way that I
Speaker 12: think way exceeds EPA's authority I think was a mistake
Speaker 12: for them, But for us, I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 12: I think we will win that litigation. We have the
Speaker 12: State of Alaska on our side because we are on
Speaker 12: state land, so you know, it's EPA taking away you know,
Speaker 12: close to trillion dollar asset from the state. We have
Speaker 12: two indigenous organizations also suing on our behalf. So anyway,
Speaker 12: so the final briefs have been filed in that lawsuit
Speaker 12: and I think we'll win, which will be a good
Speaker 12: thing for us. There are still oral arguments which will
Speaker 12: be held on June twenty fifth. After that the judge
Speaker 12: will have everything she needs to make the decision. And
Speaker 12: then if we win, you know, our hope will be
Speaker 12: that the Trump administration decides not to appeal, and then
Speaker 12: we can get back in front of the corp of
Speaker 12: Engineers to finalize our permit process. We still have state
Speaker 12: permitting to do also after that.
Speaker 2: So if everything goes goes well for you, this pebble
Speaker 2: area here, as you point out, could cover fifteen percent
Speaker 2: of American demand just by itself of this one site.
Speaker 2: What kind of a time frame would you estimate if
Speaker 2: everything went really well, and what kind of a time
Speaker 2: frame if it was slow, that this could happen well
Speaker 2: where you still get through, but you got a lot
Speaker 2: of other new things.
Speaker 12: So I mean, if things went well, you know, and
Speaker 12: we got our permits from the state and federal government,
Speaker 12: would probably take us a year and a half or so.
Speaker 12: Then there will be litigation if the courts, you know,
Speaker 12: are expeditious, and it's getting a little harder for the
Speaker 12: environmentalists to sue because of some of the court Supreme
Speaker 12: Court decisions that have been made about the permitting process.
Speaker 12: And then you know Congress is looking at permit reform,
Speaker 12: which is very important for them to get that done.
Speaker 12: So you know, a year and a half two years
Speaker 12: or so for permitting a year or so to anywhere
Speaker 12: from a year to three or four years to get
Speaker 12: out of the courts, and then three or four years
Speaker 12: to build. So that's aggressive. So that's close to a
Speaker 12: decade on the long side of it. I mean, the
Speaker 12: permitting process could be drawn out, particularly, you know, if
Speaker 12: it doesn't get done in the Trump administration and the
Speaker 12: Newsome administration or the AOCS, you name it, they come
Speaker 12: in and you know they.
Speaker 3: Would shut down all together. That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go into the snail Darterer administration. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the case. And that's the thing. You know, we look
Speaker 2: at the proverbial snail darter that has we've seen the
Speaker 2: pendulum swing to an absurd extreme in one direction. We
Speaker 2: don't have to really want to go the absurd extreme
Speaker 2: in the other direction of China. But there is a
Speaker 2: reasonable area in the middle, I think where we can
Speaker 2: live and we can grow. And that's really what I
Speaker 2: think we're trying to achieve here. So it'd be interesting
Speaker 2: to see what happens. I had the guy on from
Speaker 2: Rare Earth, USA, and he was saying, even as desperate
Speaker 2: as the American government is to make this happen, and
Speaker 2: they're willing to you know, kick in and do what
Speaker 2: they can to help the processing of rare earth minerals.
Speaker 2: They say it's still going to take us more than
Speaker 2: five years once we get started on this thing. And
Speaker 2: so that's the key thing. We just don't plan and
Speaker 2: prepare any more in this country like we used to.
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, unfortunately it's only been well the mining industry
Speaker 12: for you know, probably a decade and a half or more.
Speaker 12: I've been telling people this is coming, and people were
Speaker 12: mostly not listening. Now at least people are listening. And
Speaker 12: I always like to say that you can't solve a
Speaker 12: problem that you've not identified. We've identified the problem. Now
Speaker 12: solving it is not going to be easy, and it
Speaker 12: is not going to be quick, and it is not
Speaker 12: going to be cheap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the key thing. Well, very interesting to talk
Speaker 2: to you about this again. John Shively as former Alaska
Speaker 2: Commissioner of Natural Resources. He is the CEO of Pebble
Speaker 2: and they have their setting on a massive supply of copper.
Speaker 2: The question is will we be allowed to get that
Speaker 2: out of the ground and process it is in a
Speaker 2: way that they say they've got a way to do
Speaker 2: it very cleanly and so, and they got some studies
Speaker 2: to back that up. You spent I think you said here,
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million dollars on environmental studies, and.
Speaker 12: Just environmental studies, we spent over a billion dollars total,
Speaker 12: like on engineering.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's pretty amazing. So well, we'll see what happens
Speaker 2: with it and appreciate you trying to get in the
Speaker 2: fight and actually produce something that is getting increasingly rare.
Speaker 2: That is the rarest of the rare earth or rare minerals.
Speaker 2: Is anybody trying to produce anything. Most of the time,
Speaker 2: it's just people saying stop and I just want to
Speaker 2: keep my lifestyle. But I don't want to have to
Speaker 2: think about how I got that lifestyle. And I think
Speaker 2: that is the key issue. We need to understand the
Speaker 2: trade offs and understand that there are going to be
Speaker 2: problems with anything that we do. That's real, but those
Speaker 2: problems can be addressed and can be solved. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for joining us, sir, appreciate it.
Speaker 14: Thank you.
Speaker 12: I appreciate you having me on.
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