Speaker 1: Hi, this is Christina and Carmen and this is another
episode of Spooky Tales. The podcast for all things is
Pooky Myths, Legends and True Crime in Latin America. And
like we said last episode, we are highlighting femicides this
month of March, and so this whole month is going
to be depressing and today is no different. Nope, it
is no different. Normally we have a listener story, but
for these episodes where we're discussing femicides, we're saving listener
stories for when we stopped doing the so after the
month of March. But if you have stories that you
want to send to us, you can email us Spooky
Tales at gmail dot com. Dm us the comment all
those ways, call this Pooky Hotline. Although after watching undertone,
I may not listen, So yeah, okay, and onto today's topic.
Across from the Machila Dora Industries headquarters in the Loma
dell Alta area of Suda, Juarez, there is an open
field and before talking about that field, let's talk about
Juatis Quadis. This part of Mexico contains the most Machila
lauras in all of Latin America. And for those that
don't know, Machilaalura is like a factory, and so yeah,
Suda Quatas has the most maculadoras in all of Latin America,
and it also has the highest number of deaths in
Latin America. I think it's gone down like right now,
but at one point it had like the highest and
this is due to many reasons, mostly the drug war
and the proximity to the border. That open field across
the Machilalora industries is a memorial site today. In it
you'll find these big pink crosses. There are eight of them,
and those pink crosses were originally put up as a
memorial to eight women who were found dead in this
field where the memorial is located, all of them having
been placed there at different times throughout the years, but
all with signs of having been raped and tortured. Their
names were Esmeraldara Montreal, Laura, Berenice Ramos, Monares, Claudia Ibelle Gonzalez,
Maria the Los Angeles A Costa Ramirez, Maira, Juliana Reez, Solis, Madeleine,
Elisave Rodriguez Signs and Maria Rosina Galicia. All were between
fifteen and nineteen years old. Oh my god, I didn't
know there was like underage under drumons on a word
stop it. I had to correct myself. I didn't even
notice underage girls. I didn't know there was under age
girls among those. Yeah, I guess fifteen twenty, oh wow,
but still very young.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Very Claudia Evel Gonzalez was twenty when she disappeared on
her way to work at a Machaila Dora on the
afternoon of October tenth, two thousand and one. One month
after Claudia went missing, police handed over to her mother
a bag of bones, which they claimed to be claudia
As remains.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Before that point, though, they there was zero effort to
search for her. Wow to do their jobs. Is Merela
Herrera Montreal, who was fifteen years old when she disappeared
on her way from her house to a house where
she worked at as a maid. Her mom reported her
missing one day after, on October thirtieth, two thousand and one,
but again the police made zero effort to search for
her until her remains were found a month later in
November two thousand and one, and the police actually told
the family of Esmeralda to look for her themselves while
why this is like the unteenthed story where or a
case where we learned that the police told the family
members that, yes, and they suggested that she probably was
like she had gone off with her boyfriend, which is
what they always say, Yeah, something of the sorts. For
Laura Berenice Ramos Monares, she was seventeen, a high school
student when she disappeared. One month after her family reported
her missing, the police again began to try and search
for her.
Speaker 2: A pattern.
Speaker 1: Yes, one could say this is a repeating pattern for
the rest of the young women who were found with Esmelda,
Laura and Clauia. And it's not just these eight women
who were found in two thousand and one. This has
been a repeating pattern for many of them, the victims
in student quadas for decades. This monument was originally made
for these eight, but it now has become the memorial
site for hundreds of women who have died in aquadis.
I will also add here that the families of these eight,
they kept fighting and fighting for justice, and the case
ended up going to the Inter American Court of Human
Rights in two thousand and two, and it took them
seven years to reach a verdict, but they did so
in two thousand and nine, and part of that ruling
was that Mexico was accountable for the murders, that they
failed to protect these young women slash teens. Then they
also failed to do their job to solve these murders,
and so they the state or the government, was ordered
to pay the legal costs to the victims' families. They
were also ordered to reopen the investigations. They were also
ordered to vestigate the government officials who were accused of
obstructing justice for all eight of these cases. And this
really obligated in Mexico to build a memorial site. Oh
so that's how the memorial site came to me exactly.
But of course, during the memorial site opening ceremony, the
family is protested, and they interrupted the ceremony with posters
of their loved ones, candles, flowers, and they chanted vivas
celas javaron, vivas las queremos. They were taken alive. We
want them back alive, and no kemos un monumento. Yes,
we don't want a monument, we want them Yeah, and like, yeah,
it is their right to do this, of course, yeah,
I mean, like how long they had to fight for justice,
and probably this just felt like a like a band aid,
like you know, type of solution.
Speaker 2: Like, Oh, everything's good now look at this memorial. Yeah,
because of reality, I mean, like what can you do?
Speaker 1: You know, Like, yes, a memorial to commemorate when on
their lives is good and a starting point. But these
families were ignored, the victims were blamed, you know exactly,
And I could not find the what ended happening with
these cases if they were like reopened back in two
thousand and nine when the ruling was made. I did
find that in two thousand and three there was a
commission to investigate the murders, like commission created, and that
back when the women were discovered their bodies were found
in two thousand and one, there was two bus drivers arrested,
but one of the bus drivers died in prison waiting
trial and the other was released due to lack of evidence.
And yeah, there's like ample evidence that these men were
innocent and unjustly arrested just because they were looking for
someone to blame. Actually, did you listen to that podcast?
That is actually my next point here. Their lawyers also
said the men were tortured into confessing, which they most
likely were tortured into confessing and then and then these
lawyers were both gunned down and seas they were both
And so yeah, there's a podcast, the one Carmen was
just about to mention, called Forgotten Women of Watas. It's
eight episodes long. There's a Spanish version and an English
version of each episode. It covers everything that I'm mentioning
right now. It covers it in way way more detail,
like across the span of eight episodes that are each
like forty five minutes long at least. But the consensus
is that, yeah, these men were scapegoats and that there
was actually a much much deeper cover up going on
that probably involved with police, cartels and politicians, and possibly
that's still the case, that there's still like some sort
of cover up. Sure they politicians, police and the cartels,
because yeah, there has continued to be deaths and murders
in this area, and that's been the case for several
victims and moment that we've covered. Yes, like we talked
about Esmeralda Cassilloon in episode one hundred and nine. This
happened in zul Cuares. We also talked about Maricella Escovedo
or Thiz in episode sixty four, and both of these
remain unsolved. When you look up femicide in sul Cuares,
you'll see that more than five hundred women were killed
between nineteen ninety three and twenty eleven, and that's like
the first official statistic you come across. But that number
is now in the thousands, and we can't talk about
any case in Sula al Cuares without talking about the machilaas.
A study was conducted in two thousand and eight on
the femicide database from nineteen ninety three to two to
one thousand and seven at the Colegio la Frontera Norte,
which documented incidents of femicide in the city, and that's
where that statistic comes from. Of the various different kinds
of murders that were analyzed, the study found two common
patterns in the data, which were classified as intimate femicide
and systemic sexual femicide. And intimate femicide refers to women
who were killed by men that were close to them.
Intimate femicide accounted for thirty point four percent of the
murders of women and girls in those years nineteen ninety
three to twenty eleven. Systemic sexual Femicide refers to systematic
patterns in the killing of women and children, which includes kidnapping,
sexual violence, torture, and body abandonment in areas such as
garbage dumps, sewage ditches, literally just streets or like desert areas. Oh, actually,
I will add because while writing about all this, like
last episode and this episode, I came, I kept coming
across femicide and feminicide. And since we're talking about femicide
right now, do you know the difference between those I've
heard feminist side, but I couldn't tell you, like from
the top of my head, like what the difference is. Okay,
So femicide has become like the murder of a woman
because she's a woman, Like that's the general, most basic
definition of it, and feminicide is the same. But then
you add on like an intentional state cover up, police
cover up of that femicide, it becomes a feminicide is
the most accepted term. So like last episode, that was
a feminicide because the cover up that they tried to do,
yes of the more locuture. Yeah, I couldn't remember for
a second. So yeah, that's the difference between those two words.
But more often than not, they're used interchangeably anyway, because
they're so tired together exactly exactly. And while there are
many factors contributing to femicides, like machismo and Mexican society,
more importantly like the rise of drug cartels, which one
of the biggest factors to the rise of drug cartels
was NAFTA.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was waiting for you to bring up NAFTA.
Speaker 1: I know you were. I was like that meme, yeah,
the one with the vein. Yeah, yeah, that's Carmen. So
NAFTA is tied to both the rise of drug cartels,
which we actually talked about in the other episode, which
with the truck drivers and the migrants in the truck,
because that's also tied to NAFTA, right, Like NATA was
just like, yeah, the rise and I forgot what the term.
What's called about commercial using commercial trucks to smuggle migrants?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like the mass.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mass something. But it's tight to NAFTA. Also tight
to NAFTA, like we said, drunk cartels, but also the
rise of machilaus. The reason there's so many factories is
because of NAFTA, and so in nineteen ninety four, the
North American Free Trade Agreepment NAFTA created the largest free
trade area in the world, integrating Mexico into an international
trade trade block characterized by neoliberal economic policies. This happened
under the leadership of President Carlos Salina Zecortari, another neoliberal presidency.
Mexico implemented a series of free market oriented policy decisions
intended to stimulate foreign investment. And like foreign investment, it
sounds like it would be good, like it would be beneficial.
It never it never works out to make deals with
especially in.
Speaker 2: The United States.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe when we talked about because we we
oh it was in Nata that I talked about then,
but when we talked about the history of board patrol
or I studies unknown.
Speaker 2: And one of the led to.
Speaker 1: A shortage of food was because Mexico made a similar
kind of like business deal with the United States and
then they started all the food that normally would go
towards the people. And then this is like the most
generalized version, but they started sending that to the United
States for whatever. I think it was like a war
for I remember exactly. But then it led to like
famine in regions of Mexico, which led to more migration,
which led to bar patrol strengthening. You know, whatever just
never never works out, it really never does. And so
this new NAFTA, it attracts it. It was like promised
the absence of tariffs, and so many were like this
sounds great. Many US owned corporations were like, wow, this
sounds great, right, and so they began making these factories
makilavas in Quadis and there was a pretty exact and
you know what, sorry, let me just add something really quick,
just because like so we know, NAFTA didn't really help
out anybody in Mexico except like the rich. And it
was the same thing in the United States because this
led to a lot of companies moving manufacturing away from
the United States. And that's why whenever like, oh, we
don't make things America anymore, well, yeah, that's because of capitalism, man, Yeah,
it really is. No, because that's what I was going
to say. US owned corporations then began moving their factories
to Quatis, like Ford Mattel, General Motors, and IBM or
a handful of the corporations that moved to the Quadis
maki lavoras during this time period they made over three
hundred factories in Quatis, and the availability of cheap labor
made it more attractive to them for just for them
to just close businesses here, factories here, and move them
down there. And because of all these factories opening and
the job opportunities, many from other parts of Mexico fluttered
into Quatas, especially women like single women who needed to
make a living, were like, well, there's work in Quatus.
An academic named Catherine Pantaleo, I like this quote of hers,
so quote NAFTA as a capitalist approach has directly created
a devaluation of women and an increase in gendered violence.
And you know what that is so poignant. I can
never say that fucking word poignant. You know it's because
I can't say it because I was listened to in an
episode of five to four and they make fun of
Amy Cornogard name co something buried, you know, the justice
because she can't say that word, and they're like, a poignant.
Speaker 2: Are what are you a cartoon character? Poignant? And I'm like, fuck,
I can't say that word either.
Speaker 1: I see. I never try to say the word, but
it's on the nose. It's just it's so fitting you know.
But yes, this quoe is so on the nose.
Speaker 2: And that is why boss.
Speaker 1: Girl feminism, capitalists feminism, white woman feminism. It doesn't work
because it only represents the rich women who, on their
path to becoming rich, step on every other woman out there.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So NAFTA was implemented and or began established
whatever in nineteen ninety four. From nineteen ninety four to
two thousand and one, the homicide rate for men increased
by three richard percent, while for women increased by six
hundred percent. Wow, I didn't know that the homicide rate
for men also increased. Oh yes that yeah, border town violence.
But that makes sense, like non, like it affects all genders,
but women are the most affected. But yes, men died too,
of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Since the increase of the Machilagra factories, more single women
with families to raise moved to quadis And because of
like the time work starts and ends, they're often walking
alone getting to and from work, right, and so that
could be one of the many reasons for the increase
in murders and disappearances. The highest number of femicides recorded
in Uarrez was after the start of Felippe Calderon so called.
Speaker 2: War on drugs.
Speaker 1: Of course it was which we have I feel like
we've discussed that. I feel like we've mentioned it here
and there. But basically it it led to so much
more violence. Yeah, which is why like war on blah
blah blah, war on this war on the cartels, like
that doesn't ever work.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: In twenty ten, there were three hundred and four murders
of women. During that time period. There was a rate
of sixty femicites per one hundred thousand inhabitants.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: The arrival of the military and federal police made gender
violence even more higher, Like it increased. Yeah, because I'm sorry,
but wherever the military goes, there's any increasing violence. Oh
my god, I was just going to say that. Wow,
we're like on the same page. This applies to all militaries. Yeah,
but the United States more than any other. Let me
clarifying them. Let us clarify that in the global South,
that violence is at the hands of the US military. Okay,
So whenever, like during this time period, when there was
a death of a woman that was like found, you know,
it was always attributed to oh the cartels. Oh, the cartels,
and oftentimes women themselves were like said to be involved
with organized crime and that's why they were killed.
Speaker 2: And it's just it's just an excuse.
Speaker 1: And I think that people want to believe they're not next,
or they would never be next, you know, and so
the ethmic excuses and be like oh boss and zo
yeah again and keepasa when that's not the reality. The
reality is that any one of us could be a
victim of femiciety.
Speaker 2: You know, yes, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And just as a state, because when I were talking
about suit Aguadas, but as a state in all, like
Chihuahua is the state with the second highest rate of
sexual assault against women wow in Mexico. According to official
data obtained through information requests to learn about the situation
of violence against women in Saguades, from twenty ten to
twenty fifteen, there was, thank you, eighteen hundred and twenty
three reports of domestic violence were filed by women between
the ages of eighteen and thirty five, and only six
point eighty seven percent of that number resulted in legal
proceedings impunity. Yes yes. During the same period, three hundred
and eleven reports of sexual harassment were filed and only
eight resulted in criminal charges.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, this is Christina from the Future. I forgot
to mention this while we were recording, but this was
a good place to mention it because it involves what is.
A little bit ago, another batch of Epstein files were released,
and Mexico did not escape being named, particularly suad What
is These are unverified allegations that were leveled against Earl
Anthony Wayne, who served as the United States Ambassador to
Mexico from twenty eleven to twenty fifteen. These allegations come
from a twenty nineteen email written by a man named
Kenneth Darryl Turner, and in the email written by Turner
to the FBI, he wrote, quote, you may want to
question the ex US Ambassador to Mexico, mister Earl Anthony Wayne,
about his involvement with an underage girl when he attended
and was arrested by the federal police. And so he
mentions this alleged arrest that occurred at a twenty fourteen
party in two Aquadis that was allegedly organized by Epstein
and Richard Marcinko, a former US Navy seal commander who
is now deceased. In the same email, Turner claims that Wayne,
the former ambassador, was sentenced in Mexico in twenty seventeen
to a life sentence for impregnating an eleven year old girl,
but that in his place an ex US marine served
the sentence as part of an agreement worked out between
the US State Department and a judge in Mexico after
a huge payoff. And again there's no evidence for that.
But that also isn't the only time that Wayne, this
former ambassador appears in the EPSTEIN finals. There's a twenty
nineteen FBI document with information provided by Turner to the
FBI where he says that the USA mbssy in Mexico
City was raided by Mexican federal police in two fourteen
while Wayne was there. And Turner also said that the
ambassador left the country immediately, which that part is true.
He did leave like suddenly. These emails from Turner to
the FBI also mentioned an alleged vault containing approximately ten
thousand videos of miners and this is all alleged, all
coming from the same person, Kenni Daryl Turner. But the
part that is true is that the ambassador did suddenly
leave Mexico in that year that Turner said twenty fourteen.
And since the Epstein files have solely been released, people
have been mentioning Epstein also because of his ranch that
is in New Mexico, which is very close to see
that Aquatis. So you can read these emails yourselves. And
again it's all alleged and not verified information. Okay, back
to the episode. All of this information leads me to
a case that I wanted to bring attention to thanks
to a listener who suggested it, the case of Isabel
Gavanias de Latore. She was born on May fifth, nineteen
ninety three. She was an artist like she did murals
and like art on clothing that she then sold, and
very active with her art on Instagram. And she was
so well known in the community. Every food vendor, specifically
burrito food vendor is apparently he we so she must
have really loved burrito. She was also an activist with
a group called Messa de Mucherez. This group focused on
gender violence. She was also a member of Puro borde
In art collective in the city, and this art collective
their statement was like to take back streets that had
been taken over by the Natco War. Through art. So
they just like spread colorful art to contrast the violence.
And some of her murals can still be found in Judas.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And she was also a member, like a member of
so many things. She was just very community or oriented.
Thank you, that's the word. Yes, okay. She was also
a member of Kassu Makileira Madre And this wasn't antiq
or is they're still around. This isn't antique.
Speaker 2: I've heard of them, have you?
Speaker 1: I don't know that, but yeah, an anti capitalist feminist
collective Fromas. Most of the members are daughters of factory workers,
hence the name, and this includes Isabel. Most of them
wore first generation what is so their mothers all came
from different parts of Mexico to work in the Macas
and so many of them were also the first to
go to university or graduate from university, including Ishabad. She
was also a mother to a four year old son.
In an interview that I found of her before she
passed away, she was asked about her art and like
why she began to paint, and she said that she
wanted to show her son that they can make beautiful
things even when things around them aren't so beautiful, they
can make beautiful things themselves and to inspire him. But
she also felt that it was very important to use
her art to call out injustices. She was carrying empathetic, strong, smart,
also described as so funny. Her friend Marte said quote,
she had what I'd call white humor rather than black,
a pure humor, simple and sensitive. She laughed and made
other people laugh end quote. Man Carlos, an elderly regular
Elane's bar in downtown wat Is, described her as charming
and as someone who took time out of her day
to chat with everyone, including like more ignored people, like
older folks. Another friend and fellow artist said quote, we
want to understood that what Isaibad was doing was rebellious
in what is in the Machista city. She was occupying
the streets with art. She was riding her bicycle home
alone at night. She was subversive of patriarchal culture. She
joined us to fight patriarchal violence in our own ways,
her own way. This is making me so sad. She
just sounds like this amazing, beautiful, joyful person who wanted
and deserves a life free of violence, as all people,
but especially women and children, who are the main victims
of violence at the handsome men. Actually men are also
victims of violence from the hands of men. They are
also victims of the patriotchans.
Speaker 2: We have said.
Speaker 1: Many chahs and people like her are targeted by men
who don't want to change their ways because they want
to be in control. So it's sad to see such
a beautiful light be I don't know, stamped out by
machismo in violence. Yeah. Yadira Cortez, a spokeswoman for Messale Mouchres,
which she was a part of. Sevan Isabel's death had
the community obviously so angry, But she said about her quote,
she represents us because she's someone who raised her voice
for justice, for the prevention of violence against women, and
for the opportunity to do community building through culture and art.
Her murder has refocused attention on the fact that women
are constantly being murdered in this community.
Speaker 2: End quote.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to get into the date. But like
for a while, all the murders that were happening in
Aquatas were like the attention of like mediap podcasts like
h what the fuck are they called? Crime Junkie did
an episode on the women of Quadas and they probably
plagiarized from the other podcasts. They probably did from the
one we mentioned Forgotten Women of Quatas. And they say
that because they have been known to have plaiarism issues.
I'm not just being a hater, okay, but no, they
do have a history of plagiarizing.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it was like not talked about for
a while except if you're Mexican, and yeah, and you're
either if you're Mexican or if you're like in at
Baso and obviously are very close in proximity to Aquadas. Actually,
I think that's where I heard about her and this organization,
because Cassandra from Bitter Problems every so often goes to
Quatas and participates in groups like that, and she does
like a ride from at Bascos Aquatas and it's like
part of like one of these groups that organized it.
And I remember she talked about her friend that was
killed and I'm pretty sure it was her. It could
have been someone else because this is common, but I
sort of remember that. And she was a big bike rider,
so that's why they liked the Like memory triggered in
my brain when you mentioned she was riding her bike. Yeah, so,
and like for us that who either paid attention to
what's going on in Mexico. This never went away, but
in a lot of places it vanished from like the media.
And so after Isabel was murdered, it felt like it
brought back the attention to the femicides in cua Aquadas
that had gotten forgotten again, you know. And like we've
been saying this episode, e Sabad was intersectional in her activism.
She defended women, immigrants, and the environment. Like whatever the
cause she was, she stood behind it. Just before her death,
she was preparing protest art against the Canadian company that
was trying to open a copper mine in Sala Mayuka,
south of where she was, not in the same place.
She also had told her friends that she felt like
she was being watched, and a lot of her art
really focused on the eyes. She told her friends that
she wanted to demonstrate they were all being watched. And
one of the murals that you could still find in
Sia quad Is is a self portrait. There's flowers. I
put the picture and I'll upload it, but there's flowers underneath,
and then there's her head outlined by like a brighter
greenish blue, but the eyes are missing. Yeah, and then
behind that is purple and eyes everywhere. And then in
the upper corner it says the Obzervan they are watching,
which just feels I don't know, it's it's eerie, definitely,
it's a powerful image. Yes, it really is, and so I.
Saibed had been hanging out with her friends at Elhenno's
bar in downtown Quadis on January eighteenth, twenty twenty, and
just past midnight, she said goodbye to her friends and
got on her old three speed road bike. She made
it less than three blocks when a bullet hit her
in the head.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And she was shot one more time in the chest.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And this happened like again January eighteen, twenty twenty. By
the time she died, there had already been more murders
than days of the year. That is too much, sixty
four murders to be specific. Her friends reported her missing
the next day, but by the time they reported her missing,
the police had already found her around three in the morning.
So like, it all happened very fast that they found
her and she was yeah. Found next to her bike
on the floor. There was two bullet casings her bike
was also fallen over because this was a Friday. So
then the Saturday after her death, hundreds took to the
streets to protest, and then the following Sunday there was
nationwide protests in all of Mexico calling for justice. And
none of her close friends or family believe that police
would properly investigate, Like when they were asked about like, oh,
do you think they're going to solve this murder, they
were like in this town, please like here, no one
of them. We even said, like impunity is the law here,
which you mentioned immunity earlier. And to this day her
case remains unsolved, and on the anniversary of her murder,
people still gather to call for justice, and on her
birthday there's also like an annual bike ride for her
to commemorate her. And like what makes us worse is
like there was cameras near where she was found, and
like they kept saying, well, there's cameras, hero, how do
you not have like information? Because for such a long
time there was no updates on her case at all,
and so many believed that she was specifically targeted. And
it feels very like very execution style, like a shot
teacher in her head. Yeah, yeah, and only twice. Like
it feels to me like the show's targeted as well
for her activism, probably right right. Five years after her
death in June twenty twenty five, she wound by staying.
Investigators searched three residences in what is from these three searches,
a fifty two year old man was arrested for firearm possession,
but they never released like names, who was searched, Who
this fifty two year old that was arrested, who he was?
Nothing was ever made public and the only things her
family and friends were made aware that the searches happened.
But again they don't know who, or well or.
Speaker 2: Any They don't know anything more than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when these searches happened, her mom, Rena de Lare, said,
we are happy because at last we see in advancement
in my daughter's case, and it's in expectation we have
in our soul that soon things will be resolved. And
at first prosecutors told her that they believe these abil's
death was drag related, which she was like, she wasn't
involved in any of that, Like.
Speaker 2: What do you mean that doesn't make sense?
Speaker 1: No, And she was the fifth woman murdered in twenty twenty,
but the same day her body was found, another woman
was killed on Juannas Avenue. Wow, and this is the
street that leads to Basil Le Norte, to the Basila
Norte part of entry to Basil in Texas. And I
forgot to type this out, but this is like not
confirmed at all, but her friends specifically which link was it?
Her friends are specifically wondering or curious about. There was
an organization of like men's rights that were active on
social media.
Speaker 2: They think that's linked.
Speaker 1: Yes, because the leader of this social media men's rights group,
that guy posted like a very weird and violent video
like just like talking nonsense really on social media, talking
about like men's rights and like how women are all
this and that and that. That guy posted that like
just before she was found dead. And so her friends
believe this is related. But there there's no like official
correlation between the two. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me,
not the first in cult type who's killed women like
that other fellow here exactly, Yeah, masterful And actually that
is how they described the group, like an insult type yeah,
and sounds like any Yeah, both men's right activism is
not really having anything to do with like any supposed
like injustices against men, you know. And now I say
suppose it because in their eyes like things that are
not actually issues or issues, you know what I mean.
Obviously there is issues that I'm in face, but most
of those issues are caused by patriarchy itself, which they
would never admit, you know. Yeah, they just want to
maintain control. Yeah, yeah, and so they think that that
is involved. That wouldn't surprise me, It wouldn't, It really wouldn't.
But yeah, to this day, it remains unsolved.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that was the a little bit about the
Machila loas, the femicides and quatus and the case of cyber. Yes, well,
I won't say it was a great episode because it's
obviously hard subjects, but I did like all the context
and because.
Speaker 2: It's all tied together, you know, Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: And I think because of the marches that happened in
Mexico every eighth March eighth, and because we are half Mexican,
I focus a lot on Mexico in these episodes that
we do about vemicience. But it's worth repeating that it
is not Mexico alone, right, this is an issue across
all of Latin America and the United States. And actually,
if you if anyone has listened to or goes to
listen to the women of Whatest episodes in that series,
there was a mention there was like a retired FBI
guy I remember his name, and I'm so sorry, but
because this is off the tope of mine, but there
was retired of BING guy who went to help them
when these women were found. And this guy FBI guy
theorized that like a certain number of the hundreds of
women who were found in quadis like in those like
a certain amount of years. He was like, this is
an American serial killarassing into the border. And there was
a some sort of Mexican like detective as well, or
I don't remember what his position was who agreed with
the FBI guy, but he thought it was someone local.
But I don't think it's a stretch to believe that
someone crossing frequently, even if they're American and not Mexican,
would know the area very well. Because the Mexican investigator
was like, well, it has to be someone local who
knows the area and knows where to leave. All these women,
so he didn't agree that it was American, but he
did think it was like this one circiller who did
a bunch of these, but not because there's so many.
And then the same podcast also theorizes that a lot
of them were just like linked to cartel members doing this,
even if the women themselves were not involved in the cartel.
They were like seeking these women out as another but
it could be both, you know. Yeah, Plus there's there
was a lot of harassment and sexual assault from employers
ad as macedels, so that's like an aspect that's tied
to this as well. Yes, exactly exactly, So yeah, that was.
Speaker 2: This episode.
Speaker 1: Well, I bet repeating feminism saves lives and we should
all be feminists because as long as we continue to
live in rachismo and not fight against my chismo on
the patriarchy, then things like this will continue to happen. Actually,
while we're here and your you just said that, I
want to add one thing that brought me so much
joy to see was a video on Instagram and that
I came across. Actually you send it to me that
I came across that you sent to me, Carmen, Yes,
old Senoras, older senoras, all saying it was their first
time at a.
Speaker 2: Women in their sixties.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at a protest Marso protests and yeah. I think
there was like six of them in the video who
were all interviewed and they were like, yep, this is
my first time and I'm here for and they all
had different reasons, but yeah, they were all there and.
Speaker 2: One of them her daughter invited her.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and that's that's.
Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful m hm.
Speaker 1: So yeah. Other than that, we'll catch you next time
with another very sad case but that we all need
to know about, you know. So yeah, bye bye. As
Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and
edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and with the
help of Don Shout out with Don. If you aren't
joying the podcast considerably, going to say five star review,
we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to
the five star review, just don't leave a review, but
don't eave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding.
You can reach out to the podcast at at spoaktos
at gmail dot com. You can go to our website
at bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form.
If you want to support the podcast, you can join
our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes.
Eight dollar members get an exclusive key chain. It's super cool.
I got new ones and these ones are huge. And
if you want to support but you can or don't
want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can
also get some merch. You can find sure Sessay, Spooky
and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love the beanie.
There's also a hat. There's a no My Miss shirt
which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options,
crap tops, sweaters. It's almost swetter weather. We're nearing a
spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're gonna need them.
If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too.
You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's
the best support that you can give us, like I
always say in our ad break and yeah, if you
like history, you can follow Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts,
and you can find a Spooky taels on all of
our socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in
the show notes, and we appreciate every single listen. Thank
you so much, stay as spooky