1 00:00:04,679 --> 00:00:08,439 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Christina and Carmen and this is another 2 00:00:08,519 --> 00:00:11,439 episode of Spooky Tales. The podcast for all things is 3 00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:16,239 Pooky Myths, Legends and True Crime in Latin America. And 4 00:00:16,679 --> 00:00:21,480 like we said last episode, we are highlighting femicides this 5 00:00:21,679 --> 00:00:25,039 month of March, and so this whole month is going 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,920 to be depressing and today is no different. Nope, it 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,920 is no different. Normally we have a listener story, but 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,520 for these episodes where we're discussing femicides, we're saving listener 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,799 stories for when we stopped doing the so after the 10 00:00:38,799 --> 00:00:40,719 month of March. But if you have stories that you 11 00:00:40,759 --> 00:00:42,359 want to send to us, you can email us Spooky 12 00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:46,039 Tales at gmail dot com. Dm us the comment all 13 00:00:46,079 --> 00:00:49,799 those ways, call this Pooky Hotline. Although after watching undertone, 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:57,200 I may not listen, So yeah, okay, and onto today's topic. 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,880 Across from the Machila Dora Industries headquarters in the Loma 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,640 dell Alta area of Suda, Juarez, there is an open 17 00:01:08,719 --> 00:01:12,920 field and before talking about that field, let's talk about 18 00:01:13,079 --> 00:01:18,640 Juatis Quadis. This part of Mexico contains the most Machila 19 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,400 lauras in all of Latin America. And for those that 20 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,519 don't know, Machilaalura is like a factory, and so yeah, 21 00:01:27,239 --> 00:01:31,000 Suda Quatas has the most maculadoras in all of Latin America, 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,519 and it also has the highest number of deaths in 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,840 Latin America. I think it's gone down like right now, 24 00:01:39,879 --> 00:01:42,319 but at one point it had like the highest and 25 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:45,040 this is due to many reasons, mostly the drug war 26 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,079 and the proximity to the border. That open field across 27 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:53,719 the Machilalora industries is a memorial site today. In it 28 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,359 you'll find these big pink crosses. There are eight of them, 29 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,599 and those pink crosses were originally put up as a 30 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,719 memorial to eight women who were found dead in this 31 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:15,159 field where the memorial is located, all of them having 32 00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:18,240 been placed there at different times throughout the years, but 33 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,439 all with signs of having been raped and tortured. Their 34 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:30,719 names were Esmeraldara Montreal, Laura, Berenice Ramos, Monares, Claudia Ibelle Gonzalez, 35 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Maria the Los Angeles A Costa Ramirez, Maira, Juliana Reez, Solis, Madeleine, 36 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:46,680 Elisave Rodriguez Signs and Maria Rosina Galicia. All were between 37 00:02:46,719 --> 00:02:49,960 fifteen and nineteen years old. Oh my god, I didn't 38 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,319 know there was like underage under drumons on a word 39 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,639 stop it. I had to correct myself. I didn't even 40 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,000 notice underage girls. I didn't know there was under age 41 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,159 girls among those. Yeah, I guess fifteen twenty, oh wow, 42 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:05,400 but still very young. 43 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 44 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,879 Speaker 1: Very Claudia Evel Gonzalez was twenty when she disappeared on 45 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,000 her way to work at a Machaila Dora on the 46 00:03:14,039 --> 00:03:17,439 afternoon of October tenth, two thousand and one. One month 47 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:22,159 after Claudia went missing, police handed over to her mother 48 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,599 a bag of bones, which they claimed to be claudia 49 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:26,240 As remains. 50 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 51 00:03:27,599 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: Before that point, though, they there was zero effort to 52 00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:35,280 search for her. Wow to do their jobs. Is Merela 53 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,800 Herrera Montreal, who was fifteen years old when she disappeared 54 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,080 on her way from her house to a house where 55 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,599 she worked at as a maid. Her mom reported her 56 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:49,840 missing one day after, on October thirtieth, two thousand and one, 57 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,199 but again the police made zero effort to search for 58 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,080 her until her remains were found a month later in 59 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,840 November two thousand and one, and the police actually told 60 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:07,360 the family of Esmeralda to look for her themselves while 61 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,080 why this is like the unteenthed story where or a 62 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,240 case where we learned that the police told the family 63 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:20,639 members that, yes, and they suggested that she probably was 64 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,480 like she had gone off with her boyfriend, which is 65 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,720 what they always say, Yeah, something of the sorts. For 66 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,639 Laura Berenice Ramos Monares, she was seventeen, a high school 67 00:04:31,639 --> 00:04:36,279 student when she disappeared. One month after her family reported 68 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,720 her missing, the police again began to try and search 69 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:41,040 for her. 70 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 2: A pattern. 71 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: Yes, one could say this is a repeating pattern for 72 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:50,879 the rest of the young women who were found with Esmelda, 73 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,000 Laura and Clauia. And it's not just these eight women 74 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,279 who were found in two thousand and one. This has 75 00:04:57,319 --> 00:05:00,600 been a repeating pattern for many of them, the victims 76 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:05,920 in student quadas for decades. This monument was originally made 77 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,120 for these eight, but it now has become the memorial 78 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:12,560 site for hundreds of women who have died in aquadis. 79 00:05:14,519 --> 00:05:16,959 I will also add here that the families of these eight, 80 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,639 they kept fighting and fighting for justice, and the case 81 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,639 ended up going to the Inter American Court of Human 82 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,199 Rights in two thousand and two, and it took them 83 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,639 seven years to reach a verdict, but they did so 84 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:34,879 in two thousand and nine, and part of that ruling 85 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,000 was that Mexico was accountable for the murders, that they 86 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:44,079 failed to protect these young women slash teens. Then they 87 00:05:44,079 --> 00:05:47,560 also failed to do their job to solve these murders, 88 00:05:47,639 --> 00:05:51,279 and so they the state or the government, was ordered 89 00:05:51,319 --> 00:05:55,480 to pay the legal costs to the victims' families. They 90 00:05:55,519 --> 00:05:59,360 were also ordered to reopen the investigations. They were also 91 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,160 ordered to vestigate the government officials who were accused of 92 00:06:02,199 --> 00:06:07,439 obstructing justice for all eight of these cases. And this 93 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,839 really obligated in Mexico to build a memorial site. Oh 94 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:15,040 so that's how the memorial site came to me exactly. 95 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,879 But of course, during the memorial site opening ceremony, the 96 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,560 family is protested, and they interrupted the ceremony with posters 97 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,040 of their loved ones, candles, flowers, and they chanted vivas 98 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,759 celas javaron, vivas las queremos. They were taken alive. We 99 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:39,600 want them back alive, and no kemos un monumento. Yes, 100 00:06:39,759 --> 00:06:43,279 we don't want a monument, we want them Yeah, and like, yeah, 101 00:06:43,319 --> 00:06:45,720 it is their right to do this, of course, yeah, 102 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:48,199 I mean, like how long they had to fight for justice, 103 00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:51,199 and probably this just felt like a like a band aid, 104 00:06:51,319 --> 00:06:53,319 like you know, type of solution. 105 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: Like, Oh, everything's good now look at this memorial. Yeah, 106 00:06:56,319 --> 00:06:58,240 because of reality, I mean, like what can you do? 107 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,079 Speaker 1: You know, Like, yes, a memorial to commemorate when on 108 00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:08,399 their lives is good and a starting point. But these 109 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:14,079 families were ignored, the victims were blamed, you know exactly, 110 00:07:15,279 --> 00:07:19,360 And I could not find the what ended happening with 111 00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:22,920 these cases if they were like reopened back in two 112 00:07:22,959 --> 00:07:27,480 thousand and nine when the ruling was made. I did 113 00:07:27,519 --> 00:07:29,079 find that in two thousand and three there was a 114 00:07:29,079 --> 00:07:33,519 commission to investigate the murders, like commission created, and that 115 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,240 back when the women were discovered their bodies were found 116 00:07:38,199 --> 00:07:40,680 in two thousand and one, there was two bus drivers arrested, 117 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:44,639 but one of the bus drivers died in prison waiting 118 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,319 trial and the other was released due to lack of evidence. 119 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,959 And yeah, there's like ample evidence that these men were 120 00:07:51,959 --> 00:07:55,360 innocent and unjustly arrested just because they were looking for 121 00:07:55,399 --> 00:07:58,319 someone to blame. Actually, did you listen to that podcast? 122 00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:02,240 That is actually my next point here. Their lawyers also 123 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:04,959 said the men were tortured into confessing, which they most 124 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,160 likely were tortured into confessing and then and then these 125 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,160 lawyers were both gunned down and seas they were both 126 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,879 And so yeah, there's a podcast, the one Carmen was 127 00:08:15,959 --> 00:08:20,079 just about to mention, called Forgotten Women of Watas. It's 128 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,600 eight episodes long. There's a Spanish version and an English 129 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,839 version of each episode. It covers everything that I'm mentioning 130 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,120 right now. It covers it in way way more detail, 131 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:32,840 like across the span of eight episodes that are each 132 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:36,559 like forty five minutes long at least. But the consensus 133 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,200 is that, yeah, these men were scapegoats and that there 134 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:42,480 was actually a much much deeper cover up going on 135 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:50,279 that probably involved with police, cartels and politicians, and possibly 136 00:08:51,159 --> 00:08:54,200 that's still the case, that there's still like some sort 137 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:59,559 of cover up. Sure they politicians, police and the cartels, 138 00:09:00,039 --> 00:09:06,480 because yeah, there has continued to be deaths and murders 139 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,720 in this area, and that's been the case for several 140 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,240 victims and moment that we've covered. Yes, like we talked 141 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,879 about Esmeralda Cassilloon in episode one hundred and nine. This 142 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:21,360 happened in zul Cuares. We also talked about Maricella Escovedo 143 00:09:21,519 --> 00:09:25,360 or Thiz in episode sixty four, and both of these 144 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:35,399 remain unsolved. When you look up femicide in sul Cuares, 145 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,399 you'll see that more than five hundred women were killed 146 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,279 between nineteen ninety three and twenty eleven, and that's like 147 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,600 the first official statistic you come across. But that number 148 00:09:45,639 --> 00:09:49,279 is now in the thousands, and we can't talk about 149 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,320 any case in Sula al Cuares without talking about the machilaas. 150 00:09:53,799 --> 00:09:55,879 A study was conducted in two thousand and eight on 151 00:09:55,919 --> 00:09:59,799 the femicide database from nineteen ninety three to two to 152 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,080 one thousand and seven at the Colegio la Frontera Norte, 153 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,759 which documented incidents of femicide in the city, and that's 154 00:10:07,799 --> 00:10:11,159 where that statistic comes from. Of the various different kinds 155 00:10:11,159 --> 00:10:13,879 of murders that were analyzed, the study found two common 156 00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:18,080 patterns in the data, which were classified as intimate femicide 157 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:23,639 and systemic sexual femicide. And intimate femicide refers to women 158 00:10:23,639 --> 00:10:25,559 who were killed by men that were close to them. 159 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:29,279 Intimate femicide accounted for thirty point four percent of the 160 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,879 murders of women and girls in those years nineteen ninety 161 00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:38,679 three to twenty eleven. Systemic sexual Femicide refers to systematic 162 00:10:38,879 --> 00:10:43,240 patterns in the killing of women and children, which includes kidnapping, 163 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,320 sexual violence, torture, and body abandonment in areas such as 164 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:57,440 garbage dumps, sewage ditches, literally just streets or like desert areas. Oh, actually, 165 00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:01,240 I will add because while writing about all this, like 166 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,440 last episode and this episode, I came, I kept coming 167 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,600 across femicide and feminicide. And since we're talking about femicide 168 00:11:08,639 --> 00:11:11,960 right now, do you know the difference between those I've 169 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,360 heard feminist side, but I couldn't tell you, like from 170 00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:16,679 the top of my head, like what the difference is. Okay, 171 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,000 So femicide has become like the murder of a woman 172 00:11:20,039 --> 00:11:23,559 because she's a woman, Like that's the general, most basic 173 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:29,759 definition of it, and feminicide is the same. But then 174 00:11:29,799 --> 00:11:32,759 you add on like an intentional state cover up, police 175 00:11:32,799 --> 00:11:37,159 cover up of that femicide, it becomes a feminicide is 176 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,759 the most accepted term. So like last episode, that was 177 00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:45,120 a feminicide because the cover up that they tried to do, 178 00:11:45,879 --> 00:11:50,039 yes of the more locuture. Yeah, I couldn't remember for 179 00:11:50,039 --> 00:11:54,120 a second. So yeah, that's the difference between those two words. 180 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,360 But more often than not, they're used interchangeably anyway, because 181 00:11:57,399 --> 00:12:02,360 they're so tired together exactly exactly. And while there are 182 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,080 many factors contributing to femicides, like machismo and Mexican society, 183 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,960 more importantly like the rise of drug cartels, which one 184 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,480 of the biggest factors to the rise of drug cartels 185 00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:14,480 was NAFTA. 186 00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:17,519 Speaker 2: Okay, I was waiting for you to bring up NAFTA. 187 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: I know you were. I was like that meme, yeah, 188 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,960 the one with the vein. Yeah, yeah, that's Carmen. So 189 00:12:27,399 --> 00:12:31,000 NAFTA is tied to both the rise of drug cartels, 190 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,720 which we actually talked about in the other episode, which 191 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,519 with the truck drivers and the migrants in the truck, 192 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,200 because that's also tied to NAFTA, right, Like NATA was 193 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:44,519 just like, yeah, the rise and I forgot what the term. 194 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,240 What's called about commercial using commercial trucks to smuggle migrants? 195 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like the mass. 196 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, mass something. But it's tight to NAFTA. Also tight 197 00:12:56,919 --> 00:12:58,960 to NAFTA, like we said, drunk cartels, but also the 198 00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:02,399 rise of machilaus. The reason there's so many factories is 199 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,919 because of NAFTA, and so in nineteen ninety four, the 200 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,679 North American Free Trade Agreepment NAFTA created the largest free 201 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,799 trade area in the world, integrating Mexico into an international 202 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:22,000 trade trade block characterized by neoliberal economic policies. This happened 203 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:28,720 under the leadership of President Carlos Salina Zecortari, another neoliberal presidency. 204 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,600 Mexico implemented a series of free market oriented policy decisions 205 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:39,159 intended to stimulate foreign investment. And like foreign investment, it 206 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:41,960 sounds like it would be good, like it would be beneficial. 207 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,240 It never it never works out to make deals with 208 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:48,200 especially in. 209 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:49,399 Speaker 2: The United States. 210 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe when we talked about because we we 211 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,000 oh it was in Nata that I talked about then, 212 00:13:54,039 --> 00:13:56,600 but when we talked about the history of board patrol 213 00:13:57,039 --> 00:13:58,200 or I studies unknown. 214 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 2: And one of the led to. 215 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: A shortage of food was because Mexico made a similar 216 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,559 kind of like business deal with the United States and 217 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,440 then they started all the food that normally would go 218 00:14:15,759 --> 00:14:18,720 towards the people. And then this is like the most 219 00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:23,559 generalized version, but they started sending that to the United 220 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,200 States for whatever. I think it was like a war 221 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,879 for I remember exactly. But then it led to like 222 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:32,279 famine in regions of Mexico, which led to more migration, 223 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:38,840 which led to bar patrol strengthening. You know, whatever just 224 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,919 never never works out, it really never does. And so 225 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:51,799 this new NAFTA, it attracts it. It was like promised 226 00:14:51,799 --> 00:14:56,159 the absence of tariffs, and so many were like this 227 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,559 sounds great. Many US owned corporations were like, wow, this 228 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:05,120 sounds great, right, and so they began making these factories 229 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,799 makilavas in Quadis and there was a pretty exact and 230 00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:10,879 you know what, sorry, let me just add something really quick, 231 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,600 just because like so we know, NAFTA didn't really help 232 00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:16,639 out anybody in Mexico except like the rich. And it 233 00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:18,519 was the same thing in the United States because this 234 00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:21,720 led to a lot of companies moving manufacturing away from 235 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,600 the United States. And that's why whenever like, oh, we 236 00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:30,120 don't make things America anymore, well, yeah, that's because of capitalism, man, Yeah, 237 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,759 it really is. No, because that's what I was going 238 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,039 to say. US owned corporations then began moving their factories 239 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:42,840 to Quatis, like Ford Mattel, General Motors, and IBM or 240 00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:47,080 a handful of the corporations that moved to the Quadis 241 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,279 maki lavoras during this time period they made over three 242 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:58,279 hundred factories in Quatis, and the availability of cheap labor 243 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:01,039 made it more attractive to them for just for them 244 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,480 to just close businesses here, factories here, and move them 245 00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:10,039 down there. And because of all these factories opening and 246 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:16,080 the job opportunities, many from other parts of Mexico fluttered 247 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,559 into Quatas, especially women like single women who needed to 248 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,039 make a living, were like, well, there's work in Quatus. 249 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,919 An academic named Catherine Pantaleo, I like this quote of hers, 250 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,840 so quote NAFTA as a capitalist approach has directly created 251 00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:35,919 a devaluation of women and an increase in gendered violence. 252 00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:40,120 And you know what that is so poignant. I can 253 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,720 never say that fucking word poignant. You know it's because 254 00:16:44,879 --> 00:16:46,480 I can't say it because I was listened to in an 255 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,519 episode of five to four and they make fun of 256 00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:53,200 Amy Cornogard name co something buried, you know, the justice 257 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,480 because she can't say that word, and they're like, a poignant. 258 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,639 Speaker 2: Are what are you a cartoon character? Poignant? And I'm like, fuck, 259 00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:00,759 I can't say that word either. 260 00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:03,559 Speaker 1: I see. I never try to say the word, but 261 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,000 it's on the nose. It's just it's so fitting you know. 262 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,680 But yes, this quoe is so on the nose. 263 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,599 Speaker 2: And that is why boss. 264 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: Girl feminism, capitalists feminism, white woman feminism. It doesn't work 265 00:17:14,759 --> 00:17:20,240 because it only represents the rich women who, on their 266 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,400 path to becoming rich, step on every other woman out there. 267 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,079 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? 268 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So NAFTA was implemented and or began established 269 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,960 whatever in nineteen ninety four. From nineteen ninety four to 270 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,640 two thousand and one, the homicide rate for men increased 271 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,559 by three richard percent, while for women increased by six 272 00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:45,640 hundred percent. Wow, I didn't know that the homicide rate 273 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,119 for men also increased. Oh yes that yeah, border town violence. 274 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,720 But that makes sense, like non, like it affects all genders, 275 00:17:54,759 --> 00:17:58,559 but women are the most affected. But yes, men died too, 276 00:17:58,799 --> 00:17:59,240 of course. 277 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 278 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,559 Speaker 1: Since the increase of the Machilagra factories, more single women 279 00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:09,200 with families to raise moved to quadis And because of 280 00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:12,960 like the time work starts and ends, they're often walking 281 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,359 alone getting to and from work, right, and so that 282 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,680 could be one of the many reasons for the increase 283 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,240 in murders and disappearances. The highest number of femicides recorded 284 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:30,680 in Uarrez was after the start of Felippe Calderon so called. 285 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,319 Speaker 2: War on drugs. 286 00:18:31,559 --> 00:18:34,039 Speaker 1: Of course it was which we have I feel like 287 00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:36,839 we've discussed that. I feel like we've mentioned it here 288 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,880 and there. But basically it it led to so much 289 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,640 more violence. Yeah, which is why like war on blah 290 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,119 blah blah, war on this war on the cartels, like 291 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,440 that doesn't ever work. 292 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 293 00:18:50,319 --> 00:18:52,839 Speaker 1: In twenty ten, there were three hundred and four murders 294 00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:57,400 of women. During that time period. There was a rate 295 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,039 of sixty femicites per one hundred thousand inhabitants. 296 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:01,519 Speaker 2: Wow. 297 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,559 Speaker 1: The arrival of the military and federal police made gender 298 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:11,039 violence even more higher, Like it increased. Yeah, because I'm sorry, 299 00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:14,279 but wherever the military goes, there's any increasing violence. Oh 300 00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:16,480 my god, I was just going to say that. Wow, 301 00:19:16,519 --> 00:19:21,119 we're like on the same page. This applies to all militaries. Yeah, 302 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,720 but the United States more than any other. Let me 303 00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:28,160 clarifying them. Let us clarify that in the global South, 304 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:34,279 that violence is at the hands of the US military. Okay, 305 00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:38,799 So whenever, like during this time period, when there was 306 00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:41,680 a death of a woman that was like found, you know, 307 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,319 it was always attributed to oh the cartels. Oh, the cartels, 308 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,000 and oftentimes women themselves were like said to be involved 309 00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:52,160 with organized crime and that's why they were killed. 310 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 2: And it's just it's just an excuse. 311 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,519 Speaker 1: And I think that people want to believe they're not next, 312 00:19:57,599 --> 00:19:59,720 or they would never be next, you know, and so 313 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:03,799 the ethmic excuses and be like oh boss and zo 314 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:08,920 yeah again and keepasa when that's not the reality. The 315 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,519 reality is that any one of us could be a 316 00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:13,480 victim of femiciety. 317 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,839 Speaker 2: You know, yes, mm hmm. 318 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: And just as a state, because when I were talking 319 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,799 about suit Aguadas, but as a state in all, like 320 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,920 Chihuahua is the state with the second highest rate of 321 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:30,559 sexual assault against women wow in Mexico. According to official 322 00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:33,839 data obtained through information requests to learn about the situation 323 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,920 of violence against women in Saguades, from twenty ten to 324 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,279 twenty fifteen, there was, thank you, eighteen hundred and twenty 325 00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:46,559 three reports of domestic violence were filed by women between 326 00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:50,400 the ages of eighteen and thirty five, and only six 327 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,039 point eighty seven percent of that number resulted in legal 328 00:20:54,079 --> 00:21:00,720 proceedings impunity. Yes yes. During the same period, three hundred 329 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,240 and eleven reports of sexual harassment were filed and only 330 00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:05,319 eight resulted in criminal charges. 331 00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:07,039 Speaker 2: Wow. 332 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, this is Christina from the Future. I forgot 333 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,519 to mention this while we were recording, but this was 334 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,519 a good place to mention it because it involves what is. 335 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,200 A little bit ago, another batch of Epstein files were released, 336 00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:27,799 and Mexico did not escape being named, particularly suad What 337 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:33,240 is These are unverified allegations that were leveled against Earl 338 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,920 Anthony Wayne, who served as the United States Ambassador to 339 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,279 Mexico from twenty eleven to twenty fifteen. These allegations come 340 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:44,519 from a twenty nineteen email written by a man named 341 00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:48,799 Kenneth Darryl Turner, and in the email written by Turner 342 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,880 to the FBI, he wrote, quote, you may want to 343 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,799 question the ex US Ambassador to Mexico, mister Earl Anthony Wayne, 344 00:21:56,839 --> 00:22:00,319 about his involvement with an underage girl when he attended 345 00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:03,720 and was arrested by the federal police. And so he 346 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,680 mentions this alleged arrest that occurred at a twenty fourteen 347 00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:12,440 party in two Aquadis that was allegedly organized by Epstein 348 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,240 and Richard Marcinko, a former US Navy seal commander who 349 00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:22,039 is now deceased. In the same email, Turner claims that Wayne, 350 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,000 the former ambassador, was sentenced in Mexico in twenty seventeen 351 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,680 to a life sentence for impregnating an eleven year old girl, 352 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,920 but that in his place an ex US marine served 353 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,400 the sentence as part of an agreement worked out between 354 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,920 the US State Department and a judge in Mexico after 355 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,519 a huge payoff. And again there's no evidence for that. 356 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,119 But that also isn't the only time that Wayne, this 357 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,880 former ambassador appears in the EPSTEIN finals. There's a twenty 358 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,240 nineteen FBI document with information provided by Turner to the 359 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,920 FBI where he says that the USA mbssy in Mexico 360 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,240 City was raided by Mexican federal police in two fourteen 361 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,839 while Wayne was there. And Turner also said that the 362 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,559 ambassador left the country immediately, which that part is true. 363 00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:17,400 He did leave like suddenly. These emails from Turner to 364 00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:23,039 the FBI also mentioned an alleged vault containing approximately ten 365 00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:26,720 thousand videos of miners and this is all alleged, all 366 00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:30,319 coming from the same person, Kenni Daryl Turner. But the 367 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,240 part that is true is that the ambassador did suddenly 368 00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:39,200 leave Mexico in that year that Turner said twenty fourteen. 369 00:23:39,559 --> 00:23:43,079 And since the Epstein files have solely been released, people 370 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,839 have been mentioning Epstein also because of his ranch that 371 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,599 is in New Mexico, which is very close to see 372 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:57,039 that Aquatis. So you can read these emails yourselves. And 373 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,319 again it's all alleged and not verified information. Okay, back 374 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:12,839 to the episode. All of this information leads me to 375 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,240 a case that I wanted to bring attention to thanks 376 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,680 to a listener who suggested it, the case of Isabel 377 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,359 Gavanias de Latore. She was born on May fifth, nineteen 378 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,920 ninety three. She was an artist like she did murals 379 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:34,480 and like art on clothing that she then sold, and 380 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,799 very active with her art on Instagram. And she was 381 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:42,559 so well known in the community. Every food vendor, specifically 382 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:46,079 burrito food vendor is apparently he we so she must 383 00:24:46,079 --> 00:24:50,279 have really loved burrito. She was also an activist with 384 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,799 a group called Messa de Mucherez. This group focused on 385 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,359 gender violence. She was also a member of Puro borde 386 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,920 In art collective in the city, and this art collective 387 00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:05,359 their statement was like to take back streets that had 388 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,759 been taken over by the Natco War. Through art. So 389 00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:14,839 they just like spread colorful art to contrast the violence. 390 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:18,480 And some of her murals can still be found in Judas. 391 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 2: Wow. 392 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,079 Speaker 1: And she was also a member, like a member of 393 00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:26,799 so many things. She was just very community or oriented. 394 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:30,279 Thank you, that's the word. Yes, okay. She was also 395 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:36,559 a member of Kassu Makileira Madre And this wasn't antiq 396 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,799 or is they're still around. This isn't antique. 397 00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 2: I've heard of them, have you? 398 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,039 Speaker 1: I don't know that, but yeah, an anti capitalist feminist 399 00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:49,680 collective Fromas. Most of the members are daughters of factory workers, 400 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,400 hence the name, and this includes Isabel. Most of them 401 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,319 wore first generation what is so their mothers all came 402 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,640 from different parts of Mexico to work in the Macas 403 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,039 and so many of them were also the first to 404 00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:07,359 go to university or graduate from university, including Ishabad. She 405 00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:09,960 was also a mother to a four year old son. 406 00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:13,279 In an interview that I found of her before she 407 00:26:13,279 --> 00:26:15,480 passed away, she was asked about her art and like 408 00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:17,839 why she began to paint, and she said that she 409 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,160 wanted to show her son that they can make beautiful 410 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,440 things even when things around them aren't so beautiful, they 411 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:29,160 can make beautiful things themselves and to inspire him. But 412 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,200 she also felt that it was very important to use 413 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:39,640 her art to call out injustices. She was carrying empathetic, strong, smart, 414 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:45,240 also described as so funny. Her friend Marte said quote, 415 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,000 she had what I'd call white humor rather than black, 416 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,720 a pure humor, simple and sensitive. She laughed and made 417 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:59,880 other people laugh end quote. Man Carlos, an elderly regular 418 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,200 Elane's bar in downtown wat Is, described her as charming 419 00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:07,799 and as someone who took time out of her day 420 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,119 to chat with everyone, including like more ignored people, like 421 00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:16,680 older folks. Another friend and fellow artist said quote, we 422 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,279 want to understood that what Isaibad was doing was rebellious 423 00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:23,640 in what is in the Machista city. She was occupying 424 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,880 the streets with art. She was riding her bicycle home 425 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,440 alone at night. She was subversive of patriarchal culture. She 426 00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:35,839 joined us to fight patriarchal violence in our own ways, 427 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,720 her own way. This is making me so sad. She 428 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:45,880 just sounds like this amazing, beautiful, joyful person who wanted 429 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,319 and deserves a life free of violence, as all people, 430 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,480 but especially women and children, who are the main victims 431 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,319 of violence at the handsome men. Actually men are also 432 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,960 victims of violence from the hands of men. They are 433 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:01,519 also victims of the patriotchans. 434 00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:02,079 Speaker 2: We have said. 435 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: Many chahs and people like her are targeted by men 436 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,079 who don't want to change their ways because they want 437 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,480 to be in control. So it's sad to see such 438 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:20,119 a beautiful light be I don't know, stamped out by 439 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:28,640 machismo in violence. Yeah. Yadira Cortez, a spokeswoman for Messale Mouchres, 440 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,480 which she was a part of. Sevan Isabel's death had 441 00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:37,400 the community obviously so angry, But she said about her quote, 442 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,440 she represents us because she's someone who raised her voice 443 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,200 for justice, for the prevention of violence against women, and 444 00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:47,880 for the opportunity to do community building through culture and art. 445 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:51,240 Her murder has refocused attention on the fact that women 446 00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,440 are constantly being murdered in this community. 447 00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:54,599 Speaker 2: End quote. 448 00:28:55,119 --> 00:28:57,359 Speaker 1: And I'm going to get into the date. But like 449 00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:01,680 for a while, all the murders that were happening in 450 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,400 Aquatas were like the attention of like mediap podcasts like 451 00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:09,599 h what the fuck are they called? Crime Junkie did 452 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,480 an episode on the women of Quadas and they probably 453 00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:16,119 plagiarized from the other podcasts. They probably did from the 454 00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:18,759 one we mentioned Forgotten Women of Quatas. And they say 455 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:21,279 that because they have been known to have plaiarism issues. 456 00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:23,200 I'm not just being a hater, okay, but no, they 457 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,920 do have a history of plagiarizing. 458 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: Anyway. 459 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it was like not talked about for 460 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,680 a while except if you're Mexican, and yeah, and you're 461 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,880 either if you're Mexican or if you're like in at 462 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,920 Baso and obviously are very close in proximity to Aquadas. Actually, 463 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,559 I think that's where I heard about her and this organization, 464 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:57,000 because Cassandra from Bitter Problems every so often goes to 465 00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:59,720 Quatas and participates in groups like that, and she does 466 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,079 like a ride from at Bascos Aquatas and it's like 467 00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:04,079 part of like one of these groups that organized it. 468 00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:06,599 And I remember she talked about her friend that was 469 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,640 killed and I'm pretty sure it was her. It could 470 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,079 have been someone else because this is common, but I 471 00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:15,640 sort of remember that. And she was a big bike rider, 472 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,319 so that's why they liked the Like memory triggered in 473 00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:22,920 my brain when you mentioned she was riding her bike. Yeah, so, 474 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,720 and like for us that who either paid attention to 475 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,119 what's going on in Mexico. This never went away, but 476 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,640 in a lot of places it vanished from like the media. 477 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,839 And so after Isabel was murdered, it felt like it 478 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:40,519 brought back the attention to the femicides in cua Aquadas 479 00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:46,480 that had gotten forgotten again, you know. And like we've 480 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,839 been saying this episode, e Sabad was intersectional in her activism. 481 00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:53,519 She defended women, immigrants, and the environment. Like whatever the 482 00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:57,680 cause she was, she stood behind it. Just before her death, 483 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,960 she was preparing protest art against the Canadian company that 484 00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:03,799 was trying to open a copper mine in Sala Mayuka, 485 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,119 south of where she was, not in the same place. 486 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,000 She also had told her friends that she felt like 487 00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:13,759 she was being watched, and a lot of her art 488 00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:17,519 really focused on the eyes. She told her friends that 489 00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:21,000 she wanted to demonstrate they were all being watched. And 490 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:23,559 one of the murals that you could still find in 491 00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:27,440 Sia quad Is is a self portrait. There's flowers. I 492 00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:32,079 put the picture and I'll upload it, but there's flowers underneath, 493 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,960 and then there's her head outlined by like a brighter 494 00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:40,559 greenish blue, but the eyes are missing. Yeah, and then 495 00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:44,680 behind that is purple and eyes everywhere. And then in 496 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,880 the upper corner it says the Obzervan they are watching, 497 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,079 which just feels I don't know, it's it's eerie, definitely, 498 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,519 it's a powerful image. Yes, it really is, and so I. 499 00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:03,359 Saibed had been hanging out with her friends at Elhenno's 500 00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:08,599 bar in downtown Quadis on January eighteenth, twenty twenty, and 501 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,400 just past midnight, she said goodbye to her friends and 502 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,319 got on her old three speed road bike. She made 503 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,599 it less than three blocks when a bullet hit her 504 00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:20,079 in the head. 505 00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 2: Wow. 506 00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:23,119 Speaker 1: And she was shot one more time in the chest. 507 00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: Wow. 508 00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:28,319 Speaker 1: And this happened like again January eighteen, twenty twenty. By 509 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,000 the time she died, there had already been more murders 510 00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:36,400 than days of the year. That is too much, sixty 511 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,799 four murders to be specific. Her friends reported her missing 512 00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:43,400 the next day, but by the time they reported her missing, 513 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,519 the police had already found her around three in the morning. 514 00:32:47,359 --> 00:32:49,519 So like, it all happened very fast that they found 515 00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:53,799 her and she was yeah. Found next to her bike 516 00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:56,680 on the floor. There was two bullet casings her bike 517 00:32:56,799 --> 00:33:01,319 was also fallen over because this was a Friday. So 518 00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:04,279 then the Saturday after her death, hundreds took to the 519 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:08,799 streets to protest, and then the following Sunday there was 520 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,440 nationwide protests in all of Mexico calling for justice. And 521 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,119 none of her close friends or family believe that police 522 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,200 would properly investigate, Like when they were asked about like, oh, 523 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,240 do you think they're going to solve this murder, they 524 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,480 were like in this town, please like here, no one 525 00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:31,480 of them. We even said, like impunity is the law here, 526 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,319 which you mentioned immunity earlier. And to this day her 527 00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:43,240 case remains unsolved, and on the anniversary of her murder, 528 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,200 people still gather to call for justice, and on her 529 00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:49,960 birthday there's also like an annual bike ride for her 530 00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:55,359 to commemorate her. And like what makes us worse is 531 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,440 like there was cameras near where she was found, and 532 00:33:59,599 --> 00:34:02,680 like they kept saying, well, there's cameras, hero, how do 533 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,799 you not have like information? Because for such a long 534 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,639 time there was no updates on her case at all, 535 00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:13,960 and so many believed that she was specifically targeted. And 536 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,320 it feels very like very execution style, like a shot 537 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,559 teacher in her head. Yeah, yeah, and only twice. Like 538 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,760 it feels to me like the show's targeted as well 539 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,480 for her activism, probably right right. Five years after her 540 00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:34,320 death in June twenty twenty five, she wound by staying. 541 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,960 Investigators searched three residences in what is from these three searches, 542 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:44,159 a fifty two year old man was arrested for firearm possession, 543 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,679 but they never released like names, who was searched, Who 544 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,400 this fifty two year old that was arrested, who he was? 545 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,599 Nothing was ever made public and the only things her 546 00:34:56,599 --> 00:34:59,599 family and friends were made aware that the searches happened. 547 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:02,679 But again they don't know who, or well or. 548 00:35:02,679 --> 00:35:04,119 Speaker 2: Any They don't know anything more than that. 549 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, when these searches happened, her mom, Rena de Lare, said, 550 00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:13,480 we are happy because at last we see in advancement 551 00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:16,800 in my daughter's case, and it's in expectation we have 552 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,519 in our soul that soon things will be resolved. And 553 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,320 at first prosecutors told her that they believe these abil's 554 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,239 death was drag related, which she was like, she wasn't 555 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:30,400 involved in any of that, Like. 556 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,119 Speaker 2: What do you mean that doesn't make sense? 557 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: No, And she was the fifth woman murdered in twenty twenty, 558 00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:41,519 but the same day her body was found, another woman 559 00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:44,880 was killed on Juannas Avenue. Wow, and this is the 560 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,920 street that leads to Basil Le Norte, to the Basila 561 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:57,079 Norte part of entry to Basil in Texas. And I 562 00:35:57,159 --> 00:36:01,039 forgot to type this out, but this is like not 563 00:36:01,199 --> 00:36:05,079 confirmed at all, but her friends specifically which link was it? 564 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:11,719 Her friends are specifically wondering or curious about. There was 565 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,719 an organization of like men's rights that were active on 566 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,480 social media. 567 00:36:18,159 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 2: They think that's linked. 568 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: Yes, because the leader of this social media men's rights group, 569 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,800 that guy posted like a very weird and violent video 570 00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:37,000 like just like talking nonsense really on social media, talking 571 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,159 about like men's rights and like how women are all 572 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,960 this and that and that. That guy posted that like 573 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,679 just before she was found dead. And so her friends 574 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,679 believe this is related. But there there's no like official 575 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,760 correlation between the two. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me, 576 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,599 not the first in cult type who's killed women like 577 00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:05,199 that other fellow here exactly, Yeah, masterful And actually that 578 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,159 is how they described the group, like an insult type yeah, 579 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,360 and sounds like any Yeah, both men's right activism is 580 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,639 not really having anything to do with like any supposed 581 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,280 like injustices against men, you know. And now I say 582 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,559 suppose it because in their eyes like things that are 583 00:37:20,559 --> 00:37:22,280 not actually issues or issues, you know what I mean. 584 00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:25,840 Obviously there is issues that I'm in face, but most 585 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,079 of those issues are caused by patriarchy itself, which they 586 00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:31,000 would never admit, you know. Yeah, they just want to 587 00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:35,679 maintain control. Yeah, yeah, and so they think that that 588 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,280 is involved. That wouldn't surprise me, It wouldn't, It really wouldn't. 589 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,920 But yeah, to this day, it remains unsolved. 590 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 2: Wow. 591 00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: And yeah, that was the a little bit about the 592 00:37:49,880 --> 00:38:00,519 Machila loas, the femicides and quatus and the case of cyber. Yes, well, 593 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,000 I won't say it was a great episode because it's 594 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,679 obviously hard subjects, but I did like all the context 595 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,920 and because. 596 00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 2: It's all tied together, you know, Yeah, it really is. 597 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: And I think because of the marches that happened in 598 00:38:18,519 --> 00:38:25,280 Mexico every eighth March eighth, and because we are half Mexican, 599 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,920 I focus a lot on Mexico in these episodes that 600 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,760 we do about vemicience. But it's worth repeating that it 601 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,480 is not Mexico alone, right, this is an issue across 602 00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:41,800 all of Latin America and the United States. And actually, 603 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,679 if you if anyone has listened to or goes to 604 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,159 listen to the women of Whatest episodes in that series, 605 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,119 there was a mention there was like a retired FBI 606 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,159 guy I remember his name, and I'm so sorry, but 607 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,800 because this is off the tope of mine, but there 608 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,880 was retired of BING guy who went to help them 609 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,559 when these women were found. And this guy FBI guy 610 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:12,039 theorized that like a certain number of the hundreds of 611 00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:15,039 women who were found in quadis like in those like 612 00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:17,599 a certain amount of years. He was like, this is 613 00:39:17,639 --> 00:39:23,360 an American serial killarassing into the border. And there was 614 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,199 a some sort of Mexican like detective as well, or 615 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,159 I don't remember what his position was who agreed with 616 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,280 the FBI guy, but he thought it was someone local. 617 00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:40,239 But I don't think it's a stretch to believe that 618 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,039 someone crossing frequently, even if they're American and not Mexican, 619 00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:49,239 would know the area very well. Because the Mexican investigator 620 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,920 was like, well, it has to be someone local who 621 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,760 knows the area and knows where to leave. All these women, 622 00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:56,400 so he didn't agree that it was American, but he 623 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,800 did think it was like this one circiller who did 624 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,800 a bunch of these, but not because there's so many. 625 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,760 And then the same podcast also theorizes that a lot 626 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:12,400 of them were just like linked to cartel members doing this, 627 00:40:12,639 --> 00:40:15,760 even if the women themselves were not involved in the cartel. 628 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,360 They were like seeking these women out as another but 629 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,159 it could be both, you know. Yeah, Plus there's there 630 00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:32,440 was a lot of harassment and sexual assault from employers 631 00:40:32,559 --> 00:40:36,159 ad as macedels, so that's like an aspect that's tied 632 00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:43,119 to this as well. Yes, exactly exactly, So yeah, that was. 633 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,599 Speaker 2: This episode. 634 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:54,199 Speaker 1: Well, I bet repeating feminism saves lives and we should 635 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,639 all be feminists because as long as we continue to 636 00:40:58,639 --> 00:41:01,519 live in rachismo and not fight against my chismo on 637 00:41:01,559 --> 00:41:05,119 the patriarchy, then things like this will continue to happen. Actually, 638 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,559 while we're here and your you just said that, I 639 00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:10,000 want to add one thing that brought me so much 640 00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:14,000 joy to see was a video on Instagram and that 641 00:41:14,039 --> 00:41:17,920 I came across. Actually you send it to me that 642 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,159 I came across that you sent to me, Carmen, Yes, 643 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,599 old Senoras, older senoras, all saying it was their first 644 00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:27,840 time at a. 645 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,639 Speaker 2: Women in their sixties. 646 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, at a protest Marso protests and yeah. I think 647 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,079 there was like six of them in the video who 648 00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:40,360 were all interviewed and they were like, yep, this is 649 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,159 my first time and I'm here for and they all 650 00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:46,679 had different reasons, but yeah, they were all there and. 651 00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:48,079 Speaker 2: One of them her daughter invited her. 652 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and that's that's. 653 00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful m hm. 654 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,199 Speaker 1: So yeah. Other than that, we'll catch you next time 655 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,760 with another very sad case but that we all need 656 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:08,360 to know about, you know. So yeah, bye bye. As 657 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,199 Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and 658 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,800 edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and with the 659 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,199 help of Don Shout out with Don. If you aren't 660 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,599 joying the podcast considerably, going to say five star review, 661 00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:21,400 we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to 662 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,519 the five star review, just don't leave a review, but 663 00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:25,840 don't eave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. 664 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,440 You can reach out to the podcast at at spoaktos 665 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,320 at gmail dot com. You can go to our website 666 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,400 at bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. 667 00:42:33,559 --> 00:42:35,519 If you want to support the podcast, you can join 668 00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:39,800 our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. 669 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,159 Eight dollar members get an exclusive key chain. It's super cool. 670 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,639 I got new ones and these ones are huge. And 671 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,079 if you want to support but you can or don't 672 00:42:48,119 --> 00:42:50,239 want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can 673 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,320 also get some merch. You can find sure Sessay, Spooky 674 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,519 and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love the beanie. 675 00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:01,280 There's also a hat. There's a no My Miss shirt 676 00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:04,599 which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options, 677 00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:07,760 crap tops, sweaters. It's almost swetter weather. We're nearing a 678 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,079 spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're gonna need them. 679 00:43:11,119 --> 00:43:12,960 If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too. 680 00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:15,679 You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's 681 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,239 the best support that you can give us, like I 682 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,880 always say in our ad break and yeah, if you 683 00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:24,920 like history, you can follow Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts, 684 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,400 and you can find a Spooky taels on all of 685 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,480 our socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in 686 00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:34,239 the show notes, and we appreciate every single listen. Thank 687 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,039 you so much, stay as spooky