WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.080 They've seen what it actually says. And we've hammered this 2 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:05.360 for months and for weeks and months. Well, but it 3 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.480 is it's true. Now they do they do worship. 4 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:13.800 Oh I thought I thought was supposed to be so clear. 5 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:15.560 And the position doesn't change. No. 6 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:17.760 You see, as Tim Gordon pointed out, you got to 7 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:25.079 know uh, Frega's linguistic theories to understand Vatican two. And clearly, 8 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:29.000 clearly anybody who has an IQ above room temperature would 9 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:32.039 see that the rate. The way to interpret Vatican two 10 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:37.200 is uh, you know Frega's linguistic arguments. You can't make 11 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:38.640 this up. That was his argument last. 12 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:47.560 Night in Romans One, doesn't Paul talk about how no 13 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.240 one can claim ignorance because they can see, like they 14 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:52.799 can observe creation and infer there is a creator. 15 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:58.439 Yeah, but it's the external witness is attested to in 16 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:02.159 their hearts. That that's why he said. And it's not 17 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:04.400 the intellect, that's what That's what we're saying, is that 18 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:09.400 it's the noetic. It's the noetic problem, not an intellectual problem. 19 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:11.640 The noos is the heart. It's not an intell The 20 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.239 intellect gets darkened too. But the only reason the intellect 21 00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:16.799 gets darkened is because the noetic faculties the heart is 22 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:18.159 are dark is darken first. 23 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.799 Just on Paul's talks that they then suppress it through 24 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:24.480 their unrighteousness. 25 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:27.040 And who does he say that they're worshiping and serving 26 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:32.879 in verse twenty five? Is it the true God? No, 27 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:39.439 it's the creation. They exchange the truth of God. And 28 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:44.040 they don't worship and serve the God anymore, the Creator. 29 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:48.680 They serve the creature. Amen, their worship is not God, 30 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.879 it's the creature Romans one, which. 31 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.040 Is what we've been seeing all the time. 32 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:56.120 It's idolatry exactly. 33 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.680 The whole passage is making our point. And it's not 34 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:03.680 the intellect that is the problem, it's the heart. As 35 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:11.840 Paul says, did they retain the true God in their knowledge? 36 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:15.960 They did not retain the true God in their knowledge? 37 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:22.759 Romans one eight. Are they worshippers of God? Romans one 38 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:26.879 thirty says they are what haters of God? If I'm 39 00:02:26.919 --> 00:02:29.039 a hater of God? Am I a worshiper of God? 40 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:31.680 Roman Catholics? 41 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.319 Well, you see, if the reference freaks according to by 42 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:41.639 freaking right thing about natural objects that don't apply to 43 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:45.960 things like God, then well of course it's worship, but. 44 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:47.479 God just doesn't accept it. 45 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:53.560 You see, well, the whole dat Vatican, the cons like, yeah. 46 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:59.560 Just because people use is a Roman Catholic professor friend 47 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:00.120 of mine. 48 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:02.919 Said, it's sort of stupidity. 49 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.240 You got to go to school to learn. Yeah, like 50 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.639 go with your heart and your intuition, like I mean, 51 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:15.280 look at the poll before this started. Of course Christians 52 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:18.639 and Muslims don't worship the same God. And then all 53 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:21.080 of you are gonna get so caught up. And I 54 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:22.319 can do I can dance. 55 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:23.000 You want me to. 56 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:27.439 Dance Frega, you know, Krypti Parsky. 57 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:28.560 I can do it. 58 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.280 It's a whole bunch of nonsense, like intuitively, listen to 59 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.919 your heart. It's absurd, and that's what the poll showed, right, 60 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:40.800 And all of y'all getting confused, right, none of you 61 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:43.800 are to even understand like the depths of these kind 62 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.520 of theories of reference. But like lean into your heart, 63 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:48.879 like you know. 64 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.879 Of course, we talked about this today at church, and 65 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:55.159 all the guys at church are like, I can't believe 66 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:58.360 that we're even having to debate this because even Protestants 67 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:03.080 just intuitively know. Of course, Muslims and Christians don't worship 68 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:06.080 the same God. Come on, it's just obvious they don't 69 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:09.960 and seeing the actions of the papacy tells us what 70 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:10.439 they mean. 71 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:16.040 Well, that's because you haven't read Crypteme and Straws and 72 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:17.839 bertrand Russell. 73 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:20.240 I have read some of them, but I don't see 74 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:23.240 how that's how that's going to help us with with 75 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:26.040 one John two when it says that if you don't 76 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:30.399 have the son, you don't have the father. So yeah, 77 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.839 here was the original poll in the midst of the debate, 78 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:38.079 seven hundred and thirty three votes, almost eighty percent agreeing 79 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:45.600 with us, and these guys were losing. That's Cameron's Catholic poll, 80 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:46.920 by the way, And. 81 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:51.000 That's amazing, especially in this Dame age when everything's just fan. 82 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.199 And everybody's fanboys and they're not honest. That's pretty amazing. Exactly. 83 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:57.040 Yeah, that's actually says a lot. 84 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.800 To remember. The gods of the nations are devils. Do 85 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:05.879 not go after the other gods. The things that gentile sacrifice, 86 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:09.360 they sacrifice to devils and not to the one true God, 87 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:12.759 the Trinity. First Grientia ten twenty Romans one, that they 88 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:21.920 exchange the worship of God for the creature and what 89 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:30.240 do the medieval papacy called the Muslims, infidels, demon worshipers, pagans, heretics, 90 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:41.360 on on dean limb ten dollars. They want to vilify 91 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:43.480 you guys so bad that they're willing to check out 92 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.319 the Superman Lowest Hill analogy. They're very deceitful and malicious. 93 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:52.360 I think that's becoming aware. See, I've been saying to 94 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.279 you guys since twenty eighteen, when all we had all 95 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:58.920 the loft In drama, all the Ibarra drama. I've been saying, 96 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:03.720 it's not me being mean. These people are devious and 97 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:09.360 they're slimy, they're snakes, And I think maybe finally people 98 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:12.879 are trying to actually figure out these something's off with 99 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:16.519 these Roman calogue dudes, the so called pop apologetic sphere. 100 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.879 Matt five dollars, Martin Luther, Uber Allas Luskiddell became remember 101 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:23.560 for four months, I love Clark Kent, but I hate Superman. 102 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:28.079 Jordan dearedof five dollars Roamed says that Muslims arnor Mary. 103 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:32.319 But how is that? They say? Is she honored by 104 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.439 saying that she will be Muhammed's wife in heaven is 105 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.160 that honorable to say that she divorced Joseph. 106 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:38.839 Yeah. 107 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:42.040 I mean they're just picking and choosing and ignoring the 108 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:48.360 ways in which Islam blasphemes and vilifies the Virgin Mary. 109 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:50.920 Straight why mel ten dollars? If a man worships a 110 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:54.560 demon disguised as the God of Catholicism, we have to 111 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:56.399 say that he is actually worshiping the same God as 112 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:59.560 we are, because they are corrupted by people infallibility. It 113 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:02.319 does seem like that right, like it would this would 114 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.439 be transversible, reversible, you know, in all these different ways. 115 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.920 And that's why Father Deacon was actually correct to say that, No, 116 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:18.959 I'm sorry, Protestants and Catholics do not have the worship 117 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.480 of the Trinity or Christ. They don't. They've lost it. 118 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:26.000 That's precisely why we don't grant that they have gracious sacraments, 119 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:30.160 because they've lost the faith. And we're not saying that 120 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.319 because we're happy or gleeful. We want them to come 121 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:37.120 back to the faith. Monarchical trinitarianism. And what you're hearing 122 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:39.839 here about Theophanes and the Trinity in the Old Testament 123 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:44.079 is the Patristic teaching. It is the Orthodox Catholic church's teaching. 124 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.920 It's the teaching of the first thousand years. The stuff 125 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.360 that Rome now teaches is the deviation, and it should 126 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.480 be evident to all for the world to see that 127 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:57.040 the papacy has deviated through the very actions of praying 128 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:03.319 in the synagogues, I mean in synagogues and moss towards Mecca. Well, 129 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:04.040 they're just suiting. 130 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:04.319 No. 131 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.879 No. In Roman Catholicism, you're not just sinning when you 132 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:11.560 do actions of apostasy, as we saw in Aquinas, those 133 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:16.399 actions cut you off from the Church and our specific 134 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.800 serious sins that automatically excommunicate you in traditional Catholic canon law. 135 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:23.879 They're not just random sens. It's not like sleeping with 136 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.560 your girlfriend. It's not like cheating at work or something 137 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:30.560 is stealing five dollars of the cash register. Yes, they're 138 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:35.080 all sins, but in Catholicism there are strata and layers 139 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:38.519 of sins. Some of the sins are so severe they 140 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.960 remove you from the mystical body. And as we saw, 141 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:46.440 one of those is heresy and apostasy. Those remove you 142 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:50.200 from the mystical body. In Catholic theology, as we already 143 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:59.559 saw tonight, that's mestichi corporus twenty three insideast conidum nine. Okay, 144 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:18.879 so who's next, tallahassee what's up? Down two to six 145 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.639 two dollars? Be careful, Jay, Superman is going to get you. 146 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.399 Sincere hypocrite five months. Mott and Bailey fallacy is that 147 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.279 Vatican two says they adorning worship the same God, but 148 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.960 then cats tray to cats repeat to well, but Muslims 149 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:38.320 misunderstand that God in worship to make the position seem agreeable. 150 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.120 Interesting it could it be a Mott and Bailey fallacy? 151 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.799 I think it is, because that's kind of just shifting 152 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:50.080 the meaning of the words, right, Probably, Deacon. 153 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:53.879 And I'll go ahead. What was the question? 154 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:57.240 We're we're investigating whether the Vatican to approach of the 155 00:09:57.279 --> 00:09:59.799 Roman Catholics might be a Mott and Bailey fallacy. It's 156 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:04.039 a ahatorical tactic where one advances a controversial claim and 157 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:08.399 then when challenge, retreats to a different, modest, easily defensible 158 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.759 position of the mott and then pretends that the original 159 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:14.559 claim was never made. I think this is a Mott 160 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:16.600 and Bailey fallacy. That's a really good I think. 161 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.799 That's I think so Father Russell was saying was the 162 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:25.919 stocking horse fallacy. I think it's similar, like you put 163 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:32.840 yourself out there and then you can retreat when the 164 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.840 deer or whatever you know in the analogy starts to 165 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:39.120 move and be like, oh no, no, no, I'm behind the. 166 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:41.519 Yeah. 167 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:45.559 Yeah, So like if I say, well, they say, look, 168 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.759 we all worship one God, right, we all worship a 169 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:53.120 unitary unity in some sense, and it's a creator living 170 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:56.399 and subsisting in himself, as Vatican two says. And then 171 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.639 the bailey is the controversial claim that we all worship it, 172 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:03.720 and it's the same reference. And then when you get 173 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:08.320 into the specifics the speaker when challenged on the bailey 174 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:12.639 the difficult part, they retreat to the mott. Well it's 175 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:16.120 the same. But what about where I show that it's 176 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.840 not the same. Well, but it's just the same because 177 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:20.080 we say the word God together. 178 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:21.240 Yeah. 179 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:23.600 Yeah, they're definitely doing this, do you. 180 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:30.240 And all these fallacies, right, do you notice the stemonic. 181 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.559 Yeah, it's a form of lying because. 182 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:35.519 Yeah, I mean, look what the devil says, Oh, you'll 183 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:40.519 become like God's or like the devil himself is always 184 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:45.480 manipulating and equivocating on the words, right, taking a little 185 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:49.480 bit of the truth, which is actually has a reference 186 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:50.240 and then what. 187 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:50.559 Does he do? 188 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:52.360 He switches it and the. 189 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:54.840 He dissolves. 190 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.320 The boundaries have been like, well, it could mean this 191 00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:59.840 and this contact and fix the reference. 192 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:04.320 Yeah, that's what they're doing. Yeah, they're they're interchanging the 193 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:07.440 definitions of the words depending upon what needs to be 194 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:10.679 argued at the time, and they're shifting. They're shifting between 195 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:15.559 specifics and generic. That's what they're doing. Misty Rain I 196 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.679 grew up in Protestant I was raised Protestant. He'd about Orthodoxy. 197 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:21.440 I thought it was Catholicism. I steered clear from it. 198 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.559 I broke away from Protestants because of unanswered questions. I 199 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.759 found your videos and knew I was on the right track. Well, yeah, exactly, 200 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:32.200 check out good you know Orthodox Church. I would avoid 201 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:36.279 the Greeks, Saint trifon five dollars Jay, I just joined. 202 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.519 Did you see that they're going to do a therapy session. Yeah, 203 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:44.240 I saw this is the They're they're crashing out and 204 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:49.159 so now that the actual issues are out there, they're 205 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.320 going to try to come after me personally and do 206 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:55.879 an exposed video. But like all it is, that's only 207 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:58.480 going to help us they don't even understand that, Like 208 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:01.399 nine percent of the comments. 209 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.559 Are if they won, why are they doing. 210 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.919 This exactly if they're confident and if they won, and 211 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:09.639 this is not but they know it's not. It's a 212 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:14.679 huge optics nightmare, which is why they've spent ever since 213 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:21.120 then just coming after me an FDA non stop midnight light. 214 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:26.919 Why would unbelievers Why should I say to non believers 215 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.000 that try to refute the Bible if they haven't read it, 216 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.559 Jesus didn't act like that he loves everybody. Well, they 217 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:35.799 have a false conception of Jesus. I mean this idea 218 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:39.919 just like Mormons, right, Mormons, I believe that Jesus Christ 219 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:44.759 is the Messiah and the divine Son of God, the Father. Yeah, 220 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:48.399 but every meaning attached to those terms is not what 221 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:49.759 orthodox Christianity means. 222 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.840 Because false conception of love as well, right, Because if 223 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:56.279 God is love. 224 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:57.279 That's one of his energies. 225 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.480 Can't not be loved. But then when he says I 226 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:06.039 came to bring the sword right Father against. 227 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:10.480 Son the second world, well that's not loving, you see. 228 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:15.639 But like, but God's always love, so that even division 229 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.759 right in rebuking and condemnation and judgment and casting out 230 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:25.960 is love. And so not only do they they not 231 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.919 have an understanding of like who Christ is, they don't 232 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:33.080 have to understand what love is, right, and so don't 233 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:39.080 ever grant that to people love is not emotional, you know, boomer. 234 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:45.159 Hippie kind of like, yeah, just be like love is. 235 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.080 Like there's an act of love in actually executing somebody 236 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:51.159 for Yeah. 237 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:54.120 Well, they think love is an affectation of being nice 238 00:14:54.159 --> 00:15:00.600 and agreeable. That's what they think love is. Yeah, and 239 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.320 by the way, they're totally dishonest about what I presented 240 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.080 in the debate. I did I present the nine different 241 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:10.480 slides of the from the Middle Ages on Islam from 242 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:14.759 the papacy. I didn't present one. And this slide for 243 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:21.240 this example here from the Council of v N. It 244 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:24.519 makes basically the same equivalent point as the very first 245 00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:30.840 one from Pope Urban about the status of Islam. Where 246 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:41.799 did it go? Islam is an infidel religion. Infidels are pagans. 247 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:52.320 Saracens are called pagans, So they're not monotheistic Abrahamic believers. 248 00:15:52.360 --> 00:16:27.240 They're pagans. Jack Jack, Oh, okay, can you hear me? 249 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:31.399 Uh yeah, yeah, I hope you guys are doing well. 250 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:36.080 I kind of missed the drama with all these discussions 251 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:38.960 the past, I don't know, going on for weeks or whatever. 252 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:43.519 But I am a Catholic and I was just interested 253 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:48.039 because my from what what I remember hearing from clergy 254 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:51.759 and whatnot, has always been that the Angel of the 255 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:58.519 Lord is the second person of the Trinity. That, uh, 256 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.360 basically every thing. 257 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.679 That you've said, well, some Catholics are better than their 258 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:08.119 the some Catholics are better than their theology. Because most 259 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:12.440 of the academic ones will deny that. But if you're 260 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.359 talking to like just you know, a local priest or 261 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.000 something like that, he might actually just think from the 262 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:21.119 Bible and the liturgical tradition that it is, because it's 263 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.200 pretty clear in the Bible that it is. I mean, 264 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.480 when Justin Marter argues against Trifle the Jew, he argues 265 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:31.640 that your text as a Jew, show the aims of 266 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.200 the Lord to be distinct from the Father, and that's 267 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.720 the Messiah. 268 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:38.759 Yeah, I think I actually recall hearing about that. 269 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.440 But the problem is that in the later Roman Catholic 270 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:47.240 medieval discussions from Aquinas and then the responses to Palamas 271 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:52.680 from Barleum define that the light of Tabor is created, 272 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:58.119 and Aquinas explicitly teaches that these are just visions. It's 273 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.680 when when Abraham, when jo Jacob's wrestling with the angel Lord. 274 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:06.240 These are visions because God cannot be in time and 275 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.079 space because he's not a body, so there's no way 276 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.759 for the Lord can't stand there. He's not a body. 277 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.519 In fact, that's yeah. 278 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:15.680 There was something today. 279 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.480 A reading we had today actually for the Peace of 280 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.559 Saint Peter and Paul was from Acts right when when 281 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.319 Peter is in jail and he has a vision of 282 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:29.000 an angel and he's being guided out of the prison, 283 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.039 and it says that Peter thought that this was just 284 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:35.000 a vision and he didn't understand that it was really 285 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:38.160 happening until he was of course on the on a 286 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.880 side street in Jerusalem, and he realized that physically happened. 287 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.799 So I mean that I don't know if that was 288 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.680 the that was Christ, that being that angel of the 289 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.920 Angel of the Lord. I don't think it was, But now. 290 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.799 I think that was just an angel. Usually it was. 291 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:57.079 Usually when it is at the Theophany, it's identified and 292 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.079 you'll notice there's a great paype. I would recommend it's 293 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:03.839 not very long because you guys have heard me reference 294 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:08.680 the Benjamin Summer book Bodies of God, which is the 295 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:14.720 Jewish text, the modern scholarly Jewish text that admits multiplicity 296 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.039 in Yahweh, in the Torah and the Old Testament. This 297 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.880 is a paper that somebody wrote at a seminar that 298 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:30.039 compares Sommer's analysis of these Theophanes, the Jewish scholar, versus 299 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:34.559 Aquinas's analysis in their Night and Day. And we are 300 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:40.160 saying that the Orthodox tradition is faithfully accurately presenting what 301 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:45.480 the Hebrew tradition is, and the tonistic metaphysic explicitly departs 302 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:45.839 from it. 303 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.200 That's interesting. Do you know if anything in the chemistic 304 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.799 philosophy has been dogmatized per se? 305 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:53.079 I think? 306 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:57.440 I know, transubstantiation and probably a million other things have been, 307 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.880 but has there been anything about the. 308 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:06.200 Yeah, I mean, I think and whatnot? There are later 309 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:10.920 statements that what you for example, Trent says that what 310 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.920 you partake of, and for the Orthodox, the uncreated light 311 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.359 is the uncreated grace that we partake of. For for 312 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.160 Roman Catholicism, at Trent it is specified that the grace 313 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:23.680 that you partake of is a creature, so it is 314 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:27.599 not an uncreated reality. 315 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:31.319 Even like like sacramentally being in like the mystery of 316 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:33.960 the Eucharist, like that would be something that would be 317 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.880 that's supposedly a creature, that would that's that's the. 318 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:42.079 Maginst We would argue that Roman Catholicism, because of its 319 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.640 divine simplicity doctrine, does not have any explanation for what 320 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.440 the divinity is in the Eucharist. 321 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.240 Hm, hm, can you expound on that? 322 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.640 Well, we all agree, we all agree, we all agree 323 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.799 that no one partakes of the essence of God. So 324 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:02.880 if you're Roman Catholic and you have a strict Fourth 325 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.680 Laddering Council Peter Lombard doctrine of divine simplicity or a 326 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:10.960 Tomistic doctrine divine simplicity as your framework, then you're going 327 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.279 to be forced to say that the grace that is 328 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:18.039 itself in the sacrament is a creature. And that's what 329 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.240 Lili God says. Lili Gott says, the grace that you 330 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.519 get in your soul is a supernatural created accident. 331 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:30.160 And why do you think Christopher, uh, doctor Christopher Thomas 332 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.920 Waswaski said, you don't experience God in the U chorus exactly. 333 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.319 Yeah, yeah, I didn't I don't. I mean, I am 334 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:39.400 not familiar with. 335 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:40.279 That individual or what. 336 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.519 Well, he's the Thomas professor. He's the Thomas professor. 337 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:45.880 I'll give him that. 338 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.519 Okay, what was So is it is there like a distinction? 339 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:55.400 I guess, I guess maybe maybe it's. 340 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:56.200 A semanticable thing. 341 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:57.720 Is it that you were not? 342 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.519 Well, I guess you are. The eu Christ would be 343 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.839 the totality, like the Trinity is president as present right 344 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:07.920 and in the the body blood salon divinity. 345 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:10.720 Well, I mean not in the same mode. So it 346 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.279 is the body and blood and soul and divinity of 347 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.319 the Son of God. But the divinity there, according to 348 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.440 Saint Cyril and the Council of Ephesus and Orthodox theology, 349 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:25.759 is the uncreated grace, light, and immortality of God, not 350 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.000 the essence of God. Cyril has two letters where he 351 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.359 talks about those, So that's the essence inerg distinction. And 352 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:32.400 Rome rejects that. 353 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:35.720 And that's why Christopher said what he said. 354 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.000 He's okay, so he said that you're not you're not 355 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.880 receiving that receiving God? 356 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:43.680 Is that? 357 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:44.200 Is it not? 358 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:46.279 For the same reason though that you said that that 359 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.039 you're you're not receiving the essence of God. Is there 360 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.359 some sort of I'm sure there there is a super 361 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.480 philosophical dichot like difference there that I'm not that I'm 362 00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:58.799 wollefully uneducated and can't understand. 363 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:01.039 But we're not that chasing them. Obviously, they want to 364 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:05.559 say that you're in some way and it's contradictory. 365 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:09.039 The essence of God is actually there because they according 366 00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:13.680 to coins, the substance of the essence of God is there, 367 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:17.640 and the substance of bread is removed, and the accidents 368 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.480 remain in the accidents that here in nothing rather than 369 00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:22.799 the substance, which is contradictory itself. 370 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.000 Well, they're not going to say that you can eat. 371 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:27.240 The essence of the actual essence. 372 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.119 So they're going to have to say that it's a 373 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:31.160 way of seeing. 374 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.160 You partake or directly experienced God. So he said what he. 375 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.359 Said, it's right here in loud with God. The sanctifying 376 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.319 grace that is in your soul from whatever source when 377 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:46.240 you're baptized or the uchus or whatever, is a created, 378 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:51.039 supernatural gift, really distinct from God. So it is not God. 379 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.319 But do you notice proposition five. It is a participation 380 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:01.599 in the divine nature those are tradictory statements because there's 381 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:03.799 no such thing as created God. 382 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:08.680 Yeah, yeah, that's that is interesting. 383 00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:14.640 Okay, yeah, good questions. I appreciate that. We always welcome 384 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:21.799 a civil Roman Catholic calling in DZ the king. What's up, 385 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:40.240 straight white male? Five dollars. Maybe Muslims can actually join 386 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:43.400 Sam Shimmun's Apostolic church exactly the one that he made 387 00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:47.279 up v Scott five dollars. They're trying to draw a 388 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:50.960 wedge between you and FDA now, saying if you look 389 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:57.319 at Jay, he was mean, but FDA was nice. All this. Yeah, 390 00:24:57.359 --> 00:24:59.279 all they have is this stuff they don't know. They 391 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:06.720 can't address sexual issues. Orthotoko's ten dollars just one second. 392 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.720 Here is a simple one for the Roman Catholic slowboys. 393 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:14.559 The Council Florence says Tranitarians are condemned unless they become 394 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:20.119 Nontrinitarians are condemned lest they convert to papalism. Vatican too, 395 00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:23.119 says Muslims worship the true God and should be esteemed. 396 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.400 That is a contradiction. Exactly what's up? 397 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.839 Hey man, Thank you for taking my call. So, yeah, 398 00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.359 I was listening to your conversation. You and father, Deacon 399 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:42.640 with Trent and the gentleman. And I believe it was trying. 400 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.440 He was trying to pay you to do a syllogism 401 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:49.359