Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasick goes, I am Dan for Valley,
coming at you with my one, my only, my certified
fantabulous go is mister Grant Hughes the time for another
round of hashtag w j AQ. We're just asking questions.
We cannot be held responsible for what those questions lead to.
The question of the week is not to be over dramatic,
but does the fate of NBA parody rest with one team? Grant?
And that one team is your Los Angeles Clippers. You're
running the Clippers, They're you're a Clippers fan. I mean
the Warriors are kind of you know, they don't defend anymore,
according to Jimmy Butler. So is that question dramatic? Is
what we need to set out and why is it
a question at all? But we probably need to start
with this is why we're asking the questions. The Clippers
are not good at the moment. They are very old.
We knew this coming in, but everyone getting and playing
very old at the same time does not seem except
for James Harden apparently, who is been by and large
spectacular this season. Not something everyone saw coming or at
least didn't expect. Oklahoma City controls the next two Clippers
first round picks, so they're going to get this season's
and they're also this isn't talked about enough either, is
they're also going to get twenty twenty seven. If it's bad,
they have the right to swap. It's part of that.
They have all these we won't complicate it for everybody,
but Denver's pick could be outgoing since they own the
right to Denver's pick in twenty twenty seven at top
five protection. But the Clippers essentially can have the twenty
six Clippers pick that's just outright no protections on it,
and then they have the ability to swap in twenty
twenty seven. So if the Clippers are bad, which as
of right now they are bad, and we're talking about
if this season ended today, they're going to have a
thirty percent chance of landing inside the top four of
the lottery ors or so there is a not insignificant
chance that the Clippers are going to end up sending
Oklahoma City a top five pick in one of the
next two drafts. Grant and what I want to start
before getting into the Clippers and whether they can turn
this around. What are the implications of that happening. And
I mean that in a sense of you can look
at it through and we should where does one of
these picks land? And looking at the twenty twenty six
class specifically, could you imagine just giving Okac cam Boozer
or aj Dibinsaz is absolutely terrifying. But it's also the
idea of just giving Okac a top ten pick is
kind of insane.
Speaker 2: It is, and so it is a hyperbolic sort of
question to ask. But I think the reason it's not
just completely unhinged is that it's not like, well, if
sure boy would be nice if T Mex got an
extra or it seems unfair that T Max is getting
just another A good team is getting another crack at
like a franchise cornerstone type guy, which is what you know,
we're talking in extremes, but like that's on the table
if you get a top what you know, if you're
high in the lottery, the thing is the thunder. This
isn't an issue if the thunder aren't like this level
of good which is coming off the title set the
point differential record, smoking that point differential record this year
so far having lost one time. As we're recording this
so like, it's not just a very good team getting
another bite at the apple. It's a team that like
as it is. If not if we didn't have any
of this draft pick stuff as a potential outcome, we'd
still be talking about have the Thunder ruined parody or
something like that, because they are so young, because they
have their three core guys locked down, because they have
movable money. Else Like, it's just that's the that's the
element of this is the Thunder are so good that
almost any little bit of help they get feels like
it might tip things into sort of uncomfortable territory for
a league that has achieved the goal of parody and
at least in terms of like who's winning titles, right,
do get some usual suspects at the top of the standings,
but that's just always going to happen. But but the league,
you know, has whether you're talking about the waiting of
the lottery odds or the play in tournament or to
discourage tanking and kind of keep more teams grouped in
the middle, like goal achieved with respect to parody and
a lot of respects, and this would potentially kind of
cut against that. So I think for me, it's just
the fact that it is this Thunder team specifically makes
this more relevant, more interesting issue than if it were
just some other team that I don't know what what
if it was the Nuggets or something, you know that
that might have a crack at.
Speaker 1: These player because they're they're already kind of seeing some
of the problems where Aaron Gordon being injured right now,
Christian Brown is younger. But you're paying these guys and
there are I think there are two dangers for the
rest of the league where you say, well, okay, s
these window is going to be open for eternity is
deliberately over the top. But then you start to sit here,
we all we me and you have preached this a ton.
Something always changes in the NBA, not like we thought
the Brooklyn Nets during the KD Kyrie error were going
to be with James, Harm're going to be inevitable at
some point, even if it was shorter. That just implodes
the Celtics. Their windows been open ended. But they're going
through a gap year. No one would have thought that
the Pacers would have to go through a gap year
immediately after making consecutive conference finals and NBA Finals appearance.
Something always happens, injuries, teams get expensive. The Thunder seem
uniquely inoculated against all of this, with these picks coming
down the pipeline for a multitude of factors. One of
them is playing out in real time. Their second best
player as we record this has yet to play this season,
and all those numbers you outlined about one of the
best starts in NBA history is still taking place. The
other thing here is they could be in the Second
Apron as soon as next season. They don't have to
be if they don't want to. They have the Isaiah
Harnstein team option, and he's integral to the team. But
one maybe you keep him cheaper, you could get rid
of other guys. You're still going to be the odds
on favorite to win a title if you're relatively healthy,
even if you lose him. The other thing, though, is
because they have these inbound picks going into the second
Apron if they're willing to pay. Isn't that, Oh, your
draft pick is frozen. Oh it gets moved to the
end of the first round. Guess where the Thunder are
going to be drafting for the foreseeable future. Anyway, Grant
the end of the first round. And then finally, so
you get to bring in these cost controlled prospects, which
should in theory, Let's say j dubb Chet and Shay
Gillis Alexander, this team isn't willing to pay all of
them over the next three to five years that you
lose someone Well, this is the higher end of it,
but if you have the chance to develop a Boozer
or Davinza, that becomes kind of terrifying. I think you
can even We've yet to see Nicola topic play during
the regular season, but that's someone else they kind of
have waiting in the wings. And you can also argue
they don't need a look at where they found a
lot of these guys. Jalen Williams was who's in All
NBA player already, they got him a number twelve, Kayson
Wallace was at number ten, and then you start to
look at kind of the moves they make on the
margins to where it's all like Chris Youngblood went undrafted
and got minutes on this team. He's played more minutes
than Carter Bryant this year. Brooks Barnhearzer was taking forty
fourth overall this past June's And if you watched him
during Summer League. He has the outlines of, oh, this
is overall a guy, AJ Mitchell. Where was he drafted
thirty eighth overall and so first overall, fourth overall, tenth overall,
forty seventh overall. The thunder have proven that they can
find dudes. And if you give them enough higher end shots,
and the Clippers are maybe going to give them two
that are in the lottery, We're not even talking top
five picks necessarily. That is harrowing. And I think you
could even you kind of alluded to this already. You
could even make the case that even if these picks
don't turn into stars because of AJ Mitchell, because of
Big Jaalen Williams just finds like that because of if
Barnheiser turns into something, or even with Kayson Wallace, does
he become cheaper than Alex Caruso on his next deal
or something. They're just built to navigate this anyway. And
the final thing before throwing it back to you, Graham,
what happens if OKC just sits here and says we're
gonna roll with check, J, Dub and Shay until the
wheels fall off and we're gonna move the parts around them.
Do you realize how much more dangerous those draft picks
that they're getting from the Clippers become then when you
don't need any of them to be the guy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's hard to I think I think maybe
just to sort of like tamp down the panic level.
Speaker 1: Sorry, do you view this as a legitimate existential crisis
for parody?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. And even even if even if
it is, that's okay. I like dynasties like so, I
kind of I'm kind of gonna win either way as a.
Speaker 1: Do you why why? Why would you say that you likednasty?
Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of kind of my favorite thing. Well,
so here's what I think. I think. One, it's very
very hard to be as good as the thunder are
right now, and so, just like law of averages, they
can't be this good for that long just because it's impossible,
Like you just can't stay at a seventy win pace forever.
What I think these extra picks might do is keep
the floor exceptionally high for way longer than it should be,
because you can use these to offload money you maybe
eventually don't want, Like what if one of your expensive
guys gets hurt and this is just dead money. Now, well,
having extra first to move that helps. What if Alex
Caruso gets old, Hardenstein doesn't fit anymore. Now those are
bad examples because their contracts are manageable and aren't forever.
But you can move things around. You You can supplement
the rest of the core with new pieces using those.
The other thing you can do is like just take
the nets in this past draft for examples, like, well,
they're not going to use all these, they'll surely trade
a couple for like more long shot down the road assets.
The Thunder could just keep rolling these things over if
they want to, right, So it's like, yeah, you know,
maybe maybe they're maybe they're a second Apron team for
too long, and they they have to sacrifice if they
surrender a draft pick or they get it frozen or whatever.
It's like, well, we can trade this year's for maybe
a higher ceiling one in three years out or four
years beyond when this one's gonna convey, Like you can
just kick the can down the road a little bit
and assure that, you know, maybe we can't stay at
a seventy five win pace for like five years in
a row, but we might be able to stay at
like fifty five indefinitely if we just keep replenishing things
and keep kind of like stretching all these extra picks
and assets out a little farther, which, like normally for
a small market team like this, you might say, like, well,
that ought to be the goal, because that's just you
want to stay relevant and be like a top five,
top six playoff team for as long as you can.
That feels like aiming low for as good as the
Thunder are now. But I do think it just extends
whatever you call this run. It doesn't have to be
like their massive title favorites every year, but it might
be like they're top four team forever just because you can,
you know, for the next ten years, because you can
just use these things to kind of extend your window
of not contention, but like relevance. Maybe I don't know
that that is like that's easy, yeah, spursy and like
where you make the playoffs all you know, every year
for fifteen or something like that. That that feels like,
which again, that was fun too. I didn't mind that
when the Spurs were just a clockwork, you know, relevant
team that it works out well Now the other twenty
nine teams might not feel the same way. But if
you don't have skin in the game, I think this
is not a bad thing.
Speaker 1: This may be one of my most incendiary takes, but
that spurs run feels like the floor the way this
team is set up. Because even with because even with
almost so the JDub injury or the injuries to start
last year too, how the development there, because one of
the questions should be moving forward, Well, it gets tough
to develop. We're seeing this in some other cases with
lower end youngsters. But how do you balance prosper development
with trying to chase the title. Well, if you're gonna
blow out a bunch of teams, you know how to
use garbage time or the Thunder have just been able
to Aj Mitchell before he got injured last year as
a rookie was part of the rotation. Yep, he was
part of the Thunder rotation. And so if they're going
to continue to be able to find the developmental opportunities
to where they're able to make calls they understand, Oh,
this is what we have in Aj Mitchell, this is
what we have in j Will. Now complications like Nicolae topitch,
maybe missing what both of his first two seasons in
the league. Those will always come up. And I'm not
saying that every draft pick they make is going to
be a home run. It's also easy for me to
sit here and say a two decade run of just
being hyper relevance to the floor when they've yet to
suffer that first bit of collateral damage of how good
they are, and that will come. We don't Josh Giddy,
I guess was the first part. But they had decided
that wasn't about money as much as we think we're
better built if we move him for Alex Caruster will
win the t They were right. I mean, Josh Getty's
played very well to start the season in Chicago this year,
but they were right to make that call. If there
comes a point to where Hartenstein might be a potential
not crossroads, but that's a pivot point. If they decide
he's too expensive to keep, perhaps the core is able
to react well to that, just because he wasn't there
from day day zero. But if Cason Wallace gets too expensive,
if aj Mitchell when that highway robbery of a contract ends,
if someone else, if it comes a time where they
decided or if they have to move on from Kenrich
Williams Grant, he's going to get a statue, I woul
assume somewhere in Oklahoma City. So that would be the
variable that we aside from banking on injuries. And I
think what the next topic would be, well, are we
forgetting about other teams that are just going to be
in the mix to challenge the peak version of thunder?
But I think the one variable we haven't talked that
yet was well, what happens when they make the first
controversial collateral damage call? They have yet to need to
do that.
Speaker 2: Maybe the segue is one of the teams that was
sort of similarly positioned and had to make decisions like
the ones you're talking about is the Houston Rockets because
like they did sign Jalen like so there were the
talk was like, how are they gonna pay all these guys?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: They Thompson, Shangoon, Green, Easton. I'm now Jabari Smith reached
there's several Jalen Green's gone. Uh Tar Easton doesn't have
a new deal yet. Jabari Smith signed up what I
think everybody, most people agree is kind of a bargain deal.
They moved one of the picks to get Kevin Durrant, Like,
so they had to kind of make some of these
shanguon they got. Now like this is a little different
because the Rockets kept getting guys on blow market deals
and the Thunder of kind of paid market rates for
their three big names. Well can I push back there
for a second, Well, are you gonna mention the Jadub thing?
Speaker 1: Well they did. They with Chat they didn't have to
get the all NBA language in there, and with with
j Dubb, they knew what was going. I know he
suffered complications, but that very much feels like they allowed
the agent to win the press release.
Speaker 2: Which great, it makes Williams look better, like, well we
thought he was a super Max guy. But so Houston
is one of those teams I think you would cite
that has a young core that might be there to
challenge the Thunder for quite a while. But they're also
an example of like you can navigate this. This also
cuts the other way because it shows the Thunder like, yeah,
you can just navigate some of these like who do
you pay and how much situations as they arise and
come out like I don't know better in the end
for it because This is again the Rockets are playing
without Van Vliet and that's forced some of the younger
guys to stretch a little bit, and so like they're
one of the first ones that comes to mind as
far as who's going to be challenging the Thunder going forward,
challenging the Thunder's efforts to destroy parody going forward?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Who is that the first team that comes to mind
for you? Or are there more?
Speaker 1: I think it's Houston just because of how high level
the because I think you could sit here and say
my answer would be Shangoun. But there be a debate
if you said, fast forward three years, who's the best
player on the Rockets? You have Aman Thompson, Reed Shepherd
maybe gets thrown into that mix. It's not gonna be
Kevin Durant, He's not their best player now, and then Shangun.
With other teams, you don't necessarily have that debate, and
the Spurs would just be the team that I would
name next because Wemby exists. But we still don't we
need more intel on Steph Castle. What does it look
like when he actually gets to play with darn Fox
and then Dylan Harper as well. But that's another team
to where it's they still have assets if they want
to go out and make another move. They have what
is a top five NBA player right now, a guy
who if he plays in sixty five games will probably
enough will probably set the record for the most defensive
players of the Year awards won in just having Wemby
and so the ability to move around that. But they're
so I know they started off the season like Gangbusters,
but don't they feel is there another team? My question,
is there another team you view on Houston's level moving
forward that you believe could consistently challenge? Okay, see, I.
Speaker 2: Mean it depends on how far forward your because you mentioned, well,
the Spurs are there because of Wembin Yama, then the
Nuggets have to be there because of Jokic. That that's
just like on a five year time horizon, like maybe
the Nuggets are there, but probably not right, it's more
like three. I think you could say Jokic three years
from now. Like if Yoki is the best player in
the world still, it's like, well, all right, yeah, of
course he is. But five gets gets a little Harry
and we start talking about five like Shay is the
only guy that's gonna be like maybe like late prime
at that point. Everybody the other I mean, you know
everybody else might still is going to still be in
their twenties. Right, Actually Jadob is like sneaky older than
you think, but like not late prime in five years. Yeah,
I you have to. You can't find another team with
like a similar collection of young players. Maybe Detroit that's
the one I was gonna say, because it's like Cunningham's
young enough during Asar Thompson takes a leap ron Holland
learns to play offense like that. That's that's close. Like
Cleveland is going to age out, probably because Mitchell h
Garland health.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Garland can't stay healthy is the big thing. That's
that's a good But.
Speaker 2: You have the MOBILEI piece where it's like, okay, he's
the type of guy you could see, not not on
the Wemby level, but like, well they have mobiley so
they're relevant and dangerous.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See, when you start to stretch it beyond the
two or three year windows where it gets done. Because
I was even gonna say Toronto with the way Scotty
Barnes is playing this year, but yeah, they're not the
youngest team.
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is though, how realistic is it
to think about anything in terms beyond a two or
three year window? Right because like you you just said,
like things always change two or three years ago, would
you how hard would we have laughed if Detroit had
entered this conversation right, Like, it's just like, I don't
I know, we're trying to look like operate on the
thunders timeline, which like that might be the maybe the Spurs,
but Wemby's health is who knows? The Thunder? Like the
only team you can think about five years from now,
everybody else else is just gonna look so different. There'll
be some team that if we mentioned them right now,
it would be laughable, like Washington, Like I don't know
in five years where who can say maybe alex aar
is a two time MVP by then or something. Just
anything's possible.
Speaker 1: It's but I think what's also tough too, is that
even if we were to stick within the more trunk
caated window, let's use this season. This season as an example,
before these picks with the Clippers have conveyed what are
the team's finals conference on whatever that you would give
a realistic chance of beating OKAC four times and seven
tries Right now, I think there's Denver, I'll give you mine,
and then I feel like Houston might belong there. They
feel is I think Rejeppard needs to like really kind
of he's been great, but probably needs to be even
better after that. I'm not taking anybody in the East
to give it. Okay, see a series right now, I
don't see the team maybe, yeah, Cleveland is the outlook
is muddy just because Darius Garland has not played enough
and they've looked bombed offensively when he's on the court.
But that's what's also so even if we're using the
two or three year window, like what are the teams
that you think are the Spurs need to make another move,
I would say before they're there or Dylan Harper, Steph
Castle go.
Speaker 2: Kaboom yeah, which and at that then you're just talking.
We're they're the puncher's chance category, right, Well, they have
Wemby and like he might just be unsolvable and you know,
with a little bit of luck. But yeah, I know,
I think you're right. I think the list is really short.
I do think, like, well, what do you think about
the idea that like how relevant are these picks in
the two to three year window we're talking about, like,
do you think they can actually like what's that?
Speaker 1: That's what's disturbing to me, is that I see because they.
Speaker 2: Don't need them in this short time horizon.
Speaker 1: And so if they're gonna so work. That's what allows
us to look ahead, is that if you believe that
they will be able to develop players while still being good,
if you give them let's say both of these picks
land in the top ten, and we need to get
to the clippers of it all now shortly. You're gonna
tell but what percentage chance let's say both of those
picks land in the top ten, what percentage chance would
you give one of them of turning it at at
least one of them turning into a Oh, that guy's
eventually going to be an All Star. I might go
over fifty percent.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing that we haven't really talked about it.
It's like there's a Nushman Jang pick in there. So
the thunder don't get them all, you know, they don't
get them all.
Speaker 1: Right, but but hashtag poku, yeah.
Speaker 2: Poku another one. So they don't always do it quite
you know, perfectly. But yeah, I mean, if you give
them two shots at it. They're getting one. They're getting
one guy that's at least like a plus starter on
a normal team.
Speaker 1: Right, Because I was gonna say, who's the top ten
pick that they've missed on, you could say Josh Giddy,
But they got Alex Caruzzo for him, and Josh might
make an All Star team.
Speaker 2: Right this year, it's hard. It's hard to find that guy.
Maybe impossible.
Speaker 1: My only final question on this, and this is a
broader stroke inquiry, could you see this reaching the level
of players are looking to join up to localize in
a location or to actively beat the thunder or do
you think because of the way that team salary structures
have become And also just I think players one when
you I think players more than ever realize when you're
playing with a cluster of stars how much it can
do to your role. And I don't think everybody wants
to be marginalized that way. But just as an example,
looking at what Golden State is right now, if these
players were in their prime, though, would this have been
our team's actively gonna or like what happened in Phoenix,
what happened in Brooklyn is at one point it felt
like Big Three's were being formed because that felt like
the model. Now I'm just wondering, even if it's two superstars,
might we see these elite mega NBA players cluster to say, no,
we need to take down the thunder. This is year
seven of them just annihilating the rest of the league.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. You mean you could certainly imagine, well, I
don't know, just to pick two guys that ran it's like, well,
Anthony Edwards or something like we were not quite good
enough in Minnesota and then I don't know, superstar. I can't.
I don't want to like start any like hypothetical, but
like you know, Kid Cunningham's like, ah, we're pretty good,
but we just we can't quite I.
Speaker 1: Need to go play with Wemby, Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think that's a possibility. I think that's
gonna happen anyway, because that's just been the way things
have happened. Regardless of what the CBA has looked like
over the last twenty years.
Speaker 1: Has it ever happened, it's a team ever actively been
built to take down one because you can't. It's not
it's the Rockets with the Warriors would be the answer,
but it's irrational to say, well, they were only built
to beat the Warriors. They were built to contend, Yes,
but they were built in the image of contending during
the Warriors era. And as we've seen teams try to
carve out these deeper rotations, in part because of the thunder,
in part because of the pacers. I think the rockets
have actually played a big role in that too. I
just think that we might see more outliers, Like there
might be a franchise that has the maybe one superstar
that has the pull to really reel and another and
they might whether it's for one or two years, they
might just do things that seem reckless and unthinkable because
of the thunder, which I don't know that Again, I
think Houston and Golden State is the closest we have
to an analog on that.
Speaker 2: Right, and like, think about what the alternative to that is, Like, Man,
the thunder are really good. We better just kind of
lay back for a while and just wait it out. Right,
Like nobody's gonna do that. Nobody, nobody's gonna like you
just you can't operate as a franchise that way. No,
And see, like I think.
Speaker 1: You're saying when you're saying teams such as the Wizards
really need like this is they have cap space this summer,
you need to go for it. That is something you
also have to consider to say, well why, I think.
Speaker 2: I think the why is because you really still don't
know what's gonna happen, Like what if Jada can never
shoot again because of the risk, and what if Check
gets I mean Chet's been hurt two of his three years, right, like, yeah,
what you know? So the thunder approving that like they
can they're fine without one of their three guys if
they lose two. So like the Wizards is the extreme
case right where it's like, you guys are so far
away quote unquote going for it is crazy.
Speaker 1: I'm also I'm not trying to advocate that regular seasons
all of a sudden can't matter because of the thunder.
I hate chess, but I like the chess element of it.
You have to try and think all these steps ahead
to figure out like what made you don't know? I
don't want to purposely pull back, but you also do
have to, I would think evaluate your moves and direction
against well, this is this is the benchmark, right, like
this is the standard bearer for title contention right now.
Speaker 2: Don't you think that we got to move on? But
don't you think that thinking about the Thunder that way
is more relevant to like, it's deadline time. We need
a guy. This needs to be someone that can be
on the floor against the Thunder and how they play,
as opposed to like these are the types of players
we're gonna draft, and like this is the type of
team we're gonna build. As a as a rebuilder, I
think it's more of a like, oh, we look like
we are gonna run into these guys. We need our
Alex Caruso, or we need someone that can slow you
know what I mean. I think that's when you see
the them thought about that way.
Speaker 1: I think in the early stages of a rebuild, sure,
because to use what's a team that, I mean the
Pelicans as an example. Maybe they don't know they're rebuilding yet,
but Derek Queen and Jeremiah Fears both look really good.
You don't take those players at the start of a
rebuild because you think that the Thunder are going to
be the standard Bear in five to seven years when
you're fully cooked and ready to go. At the same time,
I think if we're if we fast forward two or
three years, and this is just the Thunder are still
really good and it doesn't look like they've now drafted
another big name or two, or just look like they're
set up to continue doing what they're doing now. I
think it changes, man. I think it not the rebuilding teams,
but we might see more wholesale like off season stuff,
not just trade deadline decisions off season stuff. Those directions
are made then based off a lot of what the
Thunder are doing.
Speaker 2: I would normally disagree, but this is an extreme case,
so it's I don't. I think it's much more plausible
than it has been in a long time.
Speaker 1: Here's the question, then, though, Can the Clippers do their
part turn things around and not make it easier for
the Thunder to last? And I think it might be
best framed through this prison. We could look at this
season and talk about what a disaster it is, and
we absolutely should. There's why would they be any better
next year? They're not. They're not getting any younger, and
it seems like they're kind of conserving flexibility to be
be spend heavy in the summer of twenty twenty seven.
This might be the the middle I mean, the draft class. Ever,
it's vaunted, so that matters. But this could be when
you look at where the pick lands, this could be
the middle ground outcome to where all this this is
like a next year's going to be four right right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, the arrow on the Clippers is angled down
that because they're coming in there were old, they all
got older. They're slow. Like the the route out of
this is what like Zubots is the guy you would
trade that you might get, Like, do you trade Zubots
to the thunder now and just get your pick back?
Like is that they do that? Zubots is better than
Hart and Sign. I don't know, Like, but yeah, you're right,
like the I don't see a way out for the
Clippers other than the old guys just play better because
you can't, like what are you trading to improve? You're
already just all in on now based on the age
of the roster and the types of players that they
brought in. So you're not trading your way out of this.
It just the guys. And Kawai came back just a
day before we recorded this and looked like pretty close
to Kawhi, So you know you've you've got right, Yeah,
looks man imagine how good they you know, Okay, well,
we'll see if he plays three out of every five
games going forward that that would be a pretty good benchmark.
Hard but they're terrible when he's been great. So what
do you do there?
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, let's say they can trade two
first round picks. I think one of them might need
to be conditional, but twenty thirty and twenty thirty two.
You can include a swap in there as well. If
you were able to get let's say, LaMelo Ball or
Trey Young or name. I don't even know what the
I mean. The Clippers feel like they need so many things.
I don't know what other If they get Giannis, it's
a no. I'm trying to think of a player that
would be more debatable. I one don't think they have
enough to get any of those players anyone I just named.
But even if you said, if you could get Zion
from the Pelicans, I don't even know what you need
to give up a first round pick for that. At
this point, do you just do it because or no?
You have to think for them specifically. You look, no,
we've these picks, those outlays are there. We're not throwing
good money after bed because whatever you do unless you
believe that Trey Young or LaMelo Ball or Zion for
some reasons the bridge to the future, and you're going
to rebuild through free agency, which, by the way, basically
since the Clippers did it and even that required a trade,
weren't really no team is being built through free Who
was the last was it Brooklyn when they got Kyrie
and Kevin Durant the same summer?
Speaker 2: Was the last profile? For sure?
Speaker 1: Just the Knicks got Jalen Brunson is the lone name
they got in free age. So the rest is trade.
So that's the risk there is that for the rest
of the league. This feels yeah, okay, the Clippers like
let's go, Like you need to make this move, of course,
But if I'm the Clippers, I'm like, no.
Speaker 2: No, you. If they you're I agree. If if they
make a move, it has to be because wow, this
team is old and we need something to bridge us
to the next, to the post Hard and post Kawhi
stage of our existence. It can't be like making a
trade so you're better. So the pick you convey to
another team is worse, is like pure insanity. That pick's
gone like it doesn't. The KI doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Make the move.
Speaker 2: That's okay, Great, So that's how you're justifying it. Yeah, No,
I think that's not just the Clippers. You can't just say, well,
the Clippers aren't like a team that should be making trades. Sure,
but it has to be for someone. It can't. The
outgoing picks cannot have any factor. It cannot be a
factor whatsoever in the trades that they make. They're They're gone,
don't they don't exist anymore.
Speaker 1: Then this is the final question for them, just based
off how the roster's currently constructed, baking in the fact
that we don't foresee them even if they could making
what would be considered a headlining deal. Right now as
we're recording this, they've been hovering between the sixth, seventh
and eighth best lottery odds. Did you expect them to
finish the season? I'll set the over under of lottery
odds at the seventh best lottery odds, better or worse
than that?
Speaker 2: So are they the seventh word? Are they the twenty
third best team in the league at the end of
the season. I don't think I think they'll be better
than that. I do do a lot of that has
to do with other teams that I think will be worse,
that have outperformed expectations, Like I still think your Boston's
are just come on, fellas like this this respect the
restart is pretty good, but like I just you don't
want this. This isn't worth it, you know. So I
think I think, you know, Dallas is down there, but
Dallas needs to keep its pick. There's lots of teams
that I think should be much more motivated to get
real bad as soon as possible. And the Clippers, I mean.
Speaker 1: The Jazz front office has to be furious right.
Speaker 2: Now, right, I know, But the Clippers just like you know,
maybe all these maybe Brook Lopez is really truly done,
and Chris Paula has announced officially he is going to
be done. Just these they all can't stay this bad
all season. So I think Clippers will be a little better.
I think the teams around them and slightly above them
will be a little worse, and they'll they'll narrowly avoid
that seventh worst spot.
Speaker 1: And I have a quick soapboxy thing, please, I think
it's unfair to relitigate why the thunder in this position
and why the Clippers are now, if you want to,
there's the James Harden trade that that is debatable, but
if you look in hindsight, it's not unfair to say
this is going to go down as one of the
worst trades in NBA history. It absolutely is. But I
don't think we get to I mean, I appreciate the jokes,
but I don't think we get to troll the Clippers
for making the move because this wasn't even a Remember
when Kevin Durant was traded from the Nets to the Suns.
I think you and I both when we did our reaction,
pod landed on that's a lot. It's debatable. We probably
still would have made it, but we don't understand why
the Suns didn't negotiate harder when that happened with you
got Kawhi MPG that summer for the Clippers. Nobody was
saying that they recognized that it was a lot. I
think people said, well, you don't care because they'll either
still be good. Look at Kawhi and PG, look at
this is the model the two all NBA wings, or
they said you might be bad, but fuck it because
this is going to be worth it. It ended up
being a bad trade. I didn't see. And I if
you have receipts of yourself saying it, feel free to
send it to us in discorder somewhere. I don't remember
a single soul saying they would not have made that trade.
Speaker 2: I agree, And I think it's just the Shay part
of it, right because at the time, again, show me
the receipts, there were I'm sure there were people that
were like, this guy might be an All star or
you know he I really like him, he's he's he's
Quietly nobody was like, you know who the centerpiece of
this deal is. It's it's Shay, Like nobody was saying that.
Speaker 1: So if you knew that the.
Speaker 2: Right If you knew that, then great, But no one
foresaw an MVP best player on a championship team future
for him, so right, and and from the Clipper side,
it's like, yeah, you give up a guy and Shay
that you like and you pay the picks at costs
to get Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. So it's not
just it's a it's a bad trade that like full stop,
it's a bad trade because the result it was it
wasn't even like the sticker shock was there just because
of the number of picks. But it wasn't one that.
There's so many other trades that were more obviously questionable.
This one has just worked out poor for the Clippers.
And last thing I'd say is maybe betting on the
health of Kawhi and Paul. George was like that was
your core mistake. But at the time, it was like,
these guys are great and they're exactly the types of
players you need, and you get two of them, you
give up what it costs.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Oh yeah, I think that's the I
think that's the right place to land another edition of
stat padding. We're gonna be bouncing all over the spectrum
of topics here, Grant, where would you like to start
for this one?
Speaker 2: I am very very interested in some trade chatter, so
maybe we should start there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, LaMelo ball might be a little bit unhappy, So
let's play who says no LaMelo Ball? Edition will take
turns exchanging Grant. I'm gonna start, okay, who says no
LaMelo Ball? For Jonathan Kaminga, Brandon Pajemski Buddy healed Gary
Payton the second and two first round.
Speaker 2: H Man, If you wait like another two weeks, and
the Warriors keep playing like they're playing. I think nobody
says no, but I think the Warriors say yes because
that's a lot of fun. So I guess Charlotte says
no by default. But man, that's what an interest like.
Maybe they get the guy that they should have taken
way back instead of Jonathan, instead of James Wiseman. Just
everybody ends up where they're supposed to be.
Speaker 1: You don't think Joe lacub comes in and vetos this
because you're giving away two future All Stars and JK
and pods.
Speaker 2: I think LaMelo would just instantly become a Lake Up
guy and then it all be fine.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the depth would look like. You
still have the Anthony Melton, you still have Moses Moody,
Al Horford, Draymond, Jimmy Butler, Steph. I'm it's not the
most durable team, but I would absolutely but shout out
to a video editor of Hardwin Knox Andrew for coming up.
He sent that to me and said, I want to
see what your Grant's reaction is to it, and I said,
I think it's gonna break his brain. But you were
pretty on board with that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just know that what they've got right
now isn't quite enough, and they are gonna trade cominga anyway,
So why not? And what have I said has been
the Warriors' biggest limitation for a couple of years now,
just secondary creation. I think LaMelo might help, just to
touch in the shot creation department. All right, I've got
one for you, Dan, LaMelo ball for Tyler Hero, Caspres
Yacuccionis and the Miami Heat take the protections off of
the lottery protected pick they already owe Charlotte in twenty
twenty seven. Who says no?
Speaker 1: I think Miami probably says no to that. And I
think that's right because if you're Charlotte, you kind of
know LaMelo Ball's availability, and so if you know you're
gonna get an unprotected pick from the Heat next summer,
but you also kind of look at the depth they
have and they've still been pretty good without Hero this year.
I think I think maybe both sides say no. I
think both sides say I think, don't you think Charlotte
will want more than that Lamello trade.
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting. I think both sides do say no.
But I was going to go with well, I think
maybe the Heat want to see a longer stretch with
Tyler Herro before they may pull any triggers here. Plus, like,
can LaMelo ball play this new screenless style that the
Heat play? Does he need a ball screen to be
his best? I don't know. It'd be a weird, weird adjustment,
weird experiment.
Speaker 1: Who says no Lamello ball for Scoot Henderson, Robert Williams,
the third Matisse Thibel and two first round picks.
Speaker 2: I kind of think Charlotte says no to that. The
two first are intriguing, But at this point, with Scoot
and the hamstring and the underwhelming first couple of years,
we're still kind of scoot guys around here. But I
don't know if you're getting enough as Charlotte here. Williams
has his own injury concerns and thigh will is I
don't know. I don't know if that's a value at
it pure salary filler n D. I think I think
Charlotte says no there.
Speaker 1: I agree Portland shold pounds on it. If it's I
think I like Scoot.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm so glad I get to administer this
one to you. This We've got a challenge trade alert.
We need a sound effect for that Ja Morant for
LaMelo Ball, that is the trade who says no?
Speaker 1: I think the Grizzlies say no. I don't think that
they should. I think the Hornets should say no. I
Ja Morant is an exceptional player. The Grizzlies since he's
coming to the NBA have had an elite offense when
he's on the court. I have not seen his game
expand enough to think that someone who is so still
reliant on quickness and athleticism. He's a smart passer, Don't
get me wrong. I just don't think between the defense,
the shaky jumper, and what does he look like in
two to three years athletically, he's not someone that I
want to be building my team around right now.
Speaker 2: I think that's right. I think for Charlotte's kind of
longer view timeline, too, the agent curve for Jaw, which
you mentioned, has to be like just top of mind,
Like by the time Charlotte has a real team built,
what like, how good is Jaw when he's not as athletic.
I mean, he's already losing athleticism, so like, what does
that look like? I think I think Charlotte's Charlotte's gonna pass.
Speaker 1: On that one. Sound the challenge trade alert again. I'm
stealing this one. Domont is a bonus for LaMelo ball.
Speaker 2: The Kings should and would definitely should, probably would say
yes to this real quick. I think just Charlotte guards
Charlotte should say no. Well, just getting LaMelo ball in
there gives you like something to build around, and I
think that's what the King should be doing, is just
tearing it all the way down and trying to find
a new cornerstone and ball. Plenty of risk, plenty of
injury concerns. Never really seen him sustain things on a winner.
But man, that's just like you have something to sort
of orbit around as the Kings, which is what they're
gonna need. All right, I've got one for you here.
This is tough. There's a couple to look at. I'm
gonna give you the three teamer. The Chicago Bulls get
Anthony Davis, Dallas gets LaMelo Ball, Zach Collins, Charlotte gets
Deep Breath, Kobe White, Kevin Herder, Brandon Williams, an unprotected
Bulls pick, and the Lakers twenty twenty nine pick via Dallas.
Speaker 1: So Dallas is basically giving up the Lakers pick and
Anthony Davis to get LaMelo Ball That seems bizarre, But
the Lakers pick in twenty twenty nine with Luca. I
think Charlotte getting Kobe White and two and two picks
for LaMelo and then Brandon Williams is useful. I think
Dallas is probably the team that says no, right or
is it Chicago says yes, they're they're getting Anthony Davis
for a first round pick in Kobe White. I think
they wind up saying yes because it's Chicago.
Speaker 2: I think too, we need to know if Dallas still
believes defense wins championships now that Nico Harrison has gone,
and if that stance has changed, maybe we're talking a
deal here. But if not, I don't think you're well.
You could still build a pretty good defense with what
Dallas has left over at Lamello, Right.
Speaker 1: Like is insane? That's Pamelo. Yeah, I think Dallas. The
fact that you have to give up Anthony Davis in
a first round pick, though, is kind of a bummer.
If you're there. Yep, final trade idea grant. The Milwaukee
Bucks are gonna take a final swing. Kyle Kuzma, Bobby
portist an unprotected twenty thirty one first round pick and
an unprotected twenty thirty two first round swap for LaMelo
Ball and Mason Plumbley, who says, now, I.
Speaker 2: Think Charlotte has to say yes to this. So I
guess just because you're you're buying, you're buying in on
the Bucks post Giannis or extreme decline Gianni's future, and
the only thing that might keep those picks from being
really really good is LaMelo Ball is staying healthy. Like,
I think that's a bet Charlotte should be willing to
make if you're the Bucks. This is fascinating because in theory,
it's a little bit like the King's argument, where LaMelo
Balls in your new centerpiece. He's the guy that's gonna
be the guy after Giannis. I get that in theory,
but you're just the cupboards bear, and is LaMelo gonna
help Giannis chase the title in the next couple of years,
I don't that's a weird fit, right, we have to concede.
Speaker 1: If I'm the Bucks, I probably just do it. But
you know how I feel Aboutlamelo Ball. I think Charlotte
says no, just because those picks are so far out
Jeff Peterson. Is he going to be the one making
them or what is your intention of using them? There
needs to be some type of a core player or
imminent pick coming back. So I like it less for
Charlotte than I do for because even if Jannis leaves
and you're Milwaukee, you could still view LaMelo as a
tent pole guy potentially.
Speaker 2: Sure, that's how you know it's a good trade. As
we've each said, the opposite team would say no, all.
Speaker 1: Right, that does it for the LaMelo trades. Let's talk
this is. I think this is gonna be fun and
ultra difficult, difficult gramp. So, who's the one NBA player
you'd pick to guard each of the top five stars
in the league. Is Once you select a defender, he's
off the board. So the top five player pool, we'll
just go through them one by one. I'll start throwing
it to you. Who's the one player you're picking to
defend Nikola Jokic?
Speaker 2: Okay, So this will seem counterintuitive at first, but I
am choosing Alex Caruso, who I will not really most
people would know. Well, Ruy does tie in here a
little bit because the Lakers kind of offered the theory
a little bit. So the reason I'm picking Kruso ultimately
is because he's the last thing that actually worked against
Jokich because in Game seven of the Western Conference semifinals
last year, the thunder just put Caruso on Jokic instead
of kind of using him as a helper, and so
Jokic has not technically had time to solve that, which
he will, but for the moment, it's the only thing
we know that has worked relatively well against Jokic. Obviously
there's help coming, but Caruso fronting him, getting up underneath him,
nullifying the two man game with Jamal Murray, which is
critical because he can just switch it. Uh. I think
Caruso and help is just the only thing we've seen
work remotely. Uh And until Yoki solves it, that's that's
my default.
Speaker 1: That's I was not expected. I don't know who I
was expecting you to pick. It wasn't someone who's a
foot shorter than Nikola Jokic, No.
Speaker 2: And like one hundred pounds lad or two. But yeah,
sometimes you got to think outside the box with Jokic. Now,
do you want to nominate a Yokic defender? Would you
like me to give you another of the top five
that you've got to find the defender.
Speaker 1: No, I think we just have to move. That's the
gives the element. If we can't pick him twice, you.
Speaker 2: Cannot use Alex Caruso and this would be awkward if
you did. To defend Shay Gil just Alexander. So who
are you picking?
Speaker 1: Lou Dort? Can we use their own too?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm curious if this will surprise you. I'm
gonna go with Tamani Kamara because I think with I
think with Shay, it's not just you need someone who
could keep pace with him, and Tomany Kamara is basically
a five position defender. If you need someone who's not
going to come out of their shoes anytime he sort
of tries to draw contact, he's changing directions. He's just
so shifty and eccentric with the way that he moves.
I trust Tamani Kamara to be both versatile and disciplined
against him. And he's also not in fury. No, he is.
He as strong as o Gian and Obi No, but
he's not someone that shake Gilders. Alexander should be able
to because Shay's kind of sneakily strong, especially if he's
able to use his off arm YEP I like that one,
so I get to throw you Gianni's attent to Kompo.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I think it's Draymond, and the numbers kind
of back it up. Giannis has shot forty six percent
against Straymond fifty three point six true shooting in games
against Straymond. He's not being guarded exclusively by him, under
twenty points a game for Yanness, which is like, you'll
take that. And I think Draymond is obviously like at
an athletic disadvantage, but he's not someone you're successfully gonna
drive straight through over and over again, because he will
get in position. He will he will ratchet up the
physicality to the point where like it's a you can't
call all of them kind of thing. He'll make it
harder for Jannis to pass, he can stray off of
him away from the ball, because that's really what Draymond
is best at. I just think he's smart enough and
has enough length to bother Jannis. And some of the
numbers are kind of compelling, So you don't feel good
about anybody against the honest, but I think that's where I'd.
Speaker 1: Go that's a I'm I don't know. I feel like
I would have went with someone else there, but I
get the pick. It's just current Draymond. You think that's
still the.
Speaker 2: That's that's the issue is I think if I think
the Jannis numbers would look a little better if they
were all against current Draymond. So the past is doing
some work here. I just think he's I mean, you
can't there's no good choice. Like it just seees so
physically overwhelming.
Speaker 1: The board for somebody else though, which I think is
kind of important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's good. I made it hard on you,
all right. You got to guard Luka Doncic with one
player who's going to.
Speaker 1: Be Should I be tempted at all just to go
with Jaden McDaniels, because there's the proof of concept during
that one playoffs here and even this season, I think
that the Lakers offense hasn't been great when Luca's being
guarded by Jane McDaniels. But I feel in my heart
that the answer should be someone like Ogananobi because Luca
Dntrich is so big, can be physical, has a finesse
part of his game. I don't like the idea necessarily
of Og having to spend so much time defending the
point of attack and going around screens. Ah, I'm just
gonna stick with og Anobe. I feel like that's a
high reward, low floor type of pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you give any thought? I think so. My
I would have gone Aaron Gordon. Oh, just a good one.
The size, You're not gonna bait him into dumb stuff. Uh,
he's still really mobile. I mean you you have to
pick og and Gordon are kind of a piece, right,
Like you have to pick someone that is physically strong
enough to not just get put on Luca's hip and eliminated.
So Og, I mean, there's again, surprise, there's no good
option here.
Speaker 1: I think this is the only debatable player in so
to round out the top five players is Victor webin Yama?
Who are you picking to defend him?
Speaker 2: Well, So it's tempting to kind of take the Jokic
approach of we need somebody small, everybody smaller, but like
you want somebody to get underneath him, right like you
Drew Holliday used to bother Kevin Durant this way, right.
I just think I think the height and length advantage
is so profound that like Wemby will just turn around
and shoot or turn around and pass and see every angle.
So I'm gonna go with Chet Holmgren. And I think
part of that is I like the theater of We've
seen some really contentious matchups between the two of them,
and I think Chet, in his heart of hearts, believes
that he's as good as Weeban Yama, and so that
makes it as much as anything, like a fun thing
to see these guys go at each other. But he's
Chet's long, he's mobile. I think, like you know, he's
as good as you're gonna do unless you find someone
that can really just move Wemby off his spot and
is still somehow able to just like bother his length,
which I don't know who that guy is.
Speaker 1: I think that's a good call. Did you give any
thought or my overthinking this to an amen? Thompson, Well,
physicality at him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't used him, and I think if you
want someone to just make life difficult, that's probably your guy.
You could throw him at almost anybody we've mentioned. By
the way, uh so that that's a good one. And
then by extension, just why isn't it a star? Thompson like,
there's if you're gonna pick one, let's let's do both. Hey,
do you know what package deal both Thompsons.
Speaker 1: First of all, that's in real life. That's how Wemby
would be defended, is with more than one guy. Anyway,
So did you give thought to putting Wemby on any
of the other players we mentioned.
Speaker 2: Basically all of them just but then like, don't you
just want him roving a little bit more?
Speaker 1: And also he's fit, he's gotten stronger. But all the
dudes that we named Yokic that that would be Wemby die,
I don't.
Speaker 2: I would say the one I gave the most thought
to was using him on Shay because he could back
off and like the Shay getting his shoulder into you
isn't like a thing, because Wemby could just meet him
at the spot and he could if Shae wants to
shoot long two's that Wemby jumps out at great.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, it was funny. So I
didn't pick Aaron Gordon for Luka Dancic, which I kind
of like better now that you mentioned it. I was
saving Gordon and it wasn't sure how we were going
to do this. In my head. I thought Aaron Gordon
needed to be the Wemby defender and so, but there
is Yeah? Is there anyone who could slow down any
of these guys? It's the real question.
Speaker 2: No, That's why this is a fun exercise.
Speaker 1: We have a couple Grant only exercises to go through.
Are you ready for those?
Speaker 2: Perfect? I don't need to prepare anything, Grant.
Speaker 1: I am giving you a chance at redemption. Here, seven
active NBA players have at least five twenty five, five
and five seasons for their career. Twenty five points, five rebounds,
five assists, still a meaningful stat line? How many of them?
Can you name? You have three strikes and no pressure?
Make me prouder?
Speaker 2: Else, I would like to start by guessing Lebron has a.
Speaker 1: Correct and he has twenty twenty five to five and
five seasons?
Speaker 2: Can I transfer some of those over to the other
players that I will guess? That will be wrong?
Speaker 1: What does the say I will say? If this is
any help? Nobody has even half as many seasons as
Lebron of twenty five to five surprising?
Speaker 2: Okay, so how many twenty five, five and five seasons? Sorry?
Speaker 1: Seven guys have at least five of them?
Speaker 2: At least five. Okay, I think Luca's got to be
on there.
Speaker 1: Right, Luca is that's two of two.
Speaker 2: This is how I started last time, So I'm now
I'm concerned. Man. I'm gonna hope that James Harden has
the rebounds because we know he's got the points and assists.
Speaker 1: James Harden has has him and Luca both had seven
such season, So you are three of three.
Speaker 2: Hmm twenty five five? Ooh, does jannest I'm gonna say, Yannis,
I know, I don't know about the assists for him.
Speaker 1: Jannis is tied in second place with eight. You are
currently four of four.
Speaker 2: I should retire now, but yeah, the assists or the
tricky part, let's I'm sure there's some obvious ones. I
don't think Durant has the Durant is not an official guest.
I do not think he's got the assists.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler, Jimmy Butler's not on the list. Strike one,
m that hurts.
Speaker 2: Let's see, I might. I'm not gonna ask you for
hints yet, but when I get to strike two, I
definitely will. Uh well, yokich that there you go.
Speaker 1: That's number five on one strike.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think Embiid has the assists. I will
not guess him. Let's see. I don't think man, I
know there's a lot of dead air. I hope you
can edit around this.
Speaker 1: Um, he says to the viewers who will be watching
it and watch this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see. I'll just fire off some guesses like, uhine.
Speaker 1: You need to game it out.
Speaker 2: How about Jason Tatum? Is he on there that strike too?
I will say, give me a hint.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're gonna get one of them because
of something you already said.
Speaker 2: Oh well, let's see who I I I guess I'll
say Durant.
Speaker 1: How about that that is he's he's tied for second
with eight such seasons.
Speaker 2: Surprise the assist up there? So I got I got
one strike?
Speaker 1: Would you like a clue?
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?
Speaker 1: If you don't get this one, you were going to
feel terrible about yourself and everything you stand for.
Speaker 2: Okay, then Steph has to be my guess.
Speaker 1: That is correct, you did it. He has six such season.
Shout out to Steph getting those rebounds And I thought,
I thought for a second you weren't gonna yo kitch.
And that was the most aside from Lebron was the
most obvious one to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it absolutely is. They probably should have been
the second guess, But I just was thinking, once you
start with Lebron, you start thinking about the the hard
I almost said Kawhi, but I don't think he had
the assists. You start thinking about the older classic guys
that just have so many seasons that they have to
be on there. Which again, should I almost guess Lillard,
but I don't think he ever had the rebounds.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he did, but yeah, five times is a lot,
and Lebron is a psychopath. We are on guess a
player first, Guess a Player of the season. We're only
gonna do one of them. As a reminder, you can
submit them, and also if you want to submit the
type of trivia that Grant just did with the players
in stats, you can send those to us as well.
We're always wanting to take audience input from him, but
because we're pressed for time, we're only gonna do one.
It comes from Matti L. Grant, so shout out Matty L.
Are you ready.
Speaker 2: To remember who Matti L is a fan of? This
is always helpful, But that's okay.
Speaker 1: We'll go Clue number one, I was named lot Vian
League Newcomer of the Year.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, now we're speaking my language. Let's see lot
Ving League. Well again, it's been a while since we've
done this. But this doesn't necessarily mean this is a
lot Vian player. But I have to attempt the one
shot kill. We don't have a year. He was just
named lot Vian League newcomer of the year. That's it.
Speaker 1: Yep, Andre Spiadrinch, You just one shot killed it, did I?
That's insane? That's insane.
Speaker 2: Well, when you think lot Via Dan, there's only one
place to start.
Speaker 1: Now you can't. I don't know if we've ever turned
guess a player into a short I think we did.
We've Now we've been shout out to aw is doing
great work for us. You guys will meet him on
the pod soon. By the way, uh, we can't even
cut this up because no one.
Speaker 2: Here's some more clues. I just want to walk down
memory lane with Goose.
Speaker 1: We need to cut that one out, the first ten
second clip that we ever post. So clue number two
was I was drafted in the teams in the same
draft as Dwight Howard and Lewell dang, would you've gotten
it at that point? No.
Speaker 2: In my mind, bedriance is like the eleventh pick or something,
which is I guess wrong.
Speaker 1: But clue number three. I averaged three point six points,
three point nine rebounds, point eight blocks, and two point
nine foy twelve point eight minutes in thirty games during
my rookie season and was the youngest player in the league.
I did not know he was ever the youngest player
in the league.
Speaker 2: I do remember that a lot was made on Warriors
broadcast at the time of anytime he did something wrong,
there would be the excuse of he's the youngest player
in the league.
Speaker 1: I might have got there. I'm curious if you would
have known this one. In my second season, this is
clue four. I was called the one minute man for
my constant foul trouble.
Speaker 2: No, that was an issue. I don't remember that.
Speaker 1: Clue five. In my third season, I was given the
starting center spot after a changing coaching and aDNA Foyle
getting benched.
Speaker 2: I would have had it there. I think, okay, for sure.
Speaker 1: That's still five out of it. You would have gotten
a five, So we're going through. CLU six was after this.
After my fifth season, I finished fifth in Most Improved voting,
behind a teammate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if we know the year, because because Monte got
it right that year, that had.
Speaker 1: To be the I don't even remember that b Adrians
had finished that high. Yeah, these things were fun because
I'm learning in real time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're learning about like a that was ultimately a
dark but like weirdly bright stretch of Bad Warriors teams
because Beadrinch and Ellis were like, Okay, we got like
some young guys that are fun to watch, but I
mean they just weren't like winning players. But that's the
best we could do at the time.
Speaker 1: Clue seven wasn't eight oh nine. I signed a six
year contract to keep me with the team that drafted
me and was named a co captain. You definitely would
have had that. Between nine and ten and then twenty
twelve thirteen, I struggled with injury and form, constantly being
pulled out of the starting lineup for such names as
at gate Udo and Jeremy Tyler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have had it.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 2: Does he get into the free throw issues because that
became like that ruined his career. He was he was
Ben Simmons. He was terrified to get fouled.
Speaker 1: No the final two clues Clue nine. In July twenty thirteen,
I was part of a trade to the Utah Jazz
and order for my team to clear cap space for
Andrea Gadala. Include ten was I played six games with
the Jazz, with game six being my last ever NBA game.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. The only other thing I would have thrown
in there to get the full picture is he was
incredibly tanned, just a terrifically tan human being for someone
from Latvia.
Speaker 1: The skin complexion was just on point. An NBA very.
Speaker 2: Jailed hair, extreme jail user. He was a lot of fun, though.
I really the Beadrinch experience was overall positive.
Speaker 1: All right, we have one more thing to do again,
send us Guessa players more, and also send to if
you want to move from Guessa players the type of
trivia stuff, so then I could do them as well.
If you send them to grant a docs or in
our discord, Hey go join our discord. Look at that
our final one grant Are you ready and more importantly,
are you excited?
Speaker 2: I am beyond excited because I know what this is.
Speaker 1: Let's rank these groups of three NBA players according to
their current trade value. You will start us off by
going with LaMelo, Ball, John Morant, and Shrey Young.
Speaker 2: Okay, I would like to before I answer, can we
operate collectively here? Because this is these are all so difficult,
So I think I think LaMelo has to have the
most trade value of this time.
Speaker 1: Yes. This is inspired by Schmid Duovi in the Know,
who posted a question on Socials asking about it. I
just younger. The injury history is okay, yeah it's bad,
but the stuff he can do as a shooter even
if he's off the ball, and just the positional size
is up, so he's not a great defender and he
can be stiff, but you can still kind of make
plays defensively because he's so big. So I'd bet on
him and.
Speaker 2: Fun Man right, he's still on the fun Max.
Speaker 1: My controversial take would be I think Trey belongs at
number two.
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 1: Okay, good just and for me it's strictly you have
to I know John Morant's contract runs a little longer,
so maybe you're worried about Trey's player option. I just
worry about the way John Morant is gonna age, and
so he's already both him and Trey our defensive liabilities.
Tray's worse, of course, but he is despite what we've
seen this season, he's the better shooter. I think he's
the player that's gonna age better. And also the other
thing that we're not talking about is because his contract
is shorter, who's to say he's not gonna get He
might not get another max deal and so his contract
could become more team friendly.
Speaker 2: He's gonna be a real test of the league's tolerance
for max salaries. I think we have to acknowledge that
there's a I don't know how big of a chance
it is, but there is one that Jaw changes teams
and looks very much like the guy that we thought
he was two three years ago. I just like, you
can't bet on that, and that has to be priced
into the trade value thing. Got ittle, Let's see if
it sticks. All right, you and with my help, have
to order the trade value of Anthony Davis, James Harden,
and Karl Anthony Towns a very different list.
Speaker 1: This is really is this tough? This is tough? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? These are all tough.
Speaker 1: I well, I don't know who to pick. Number. My
instinct says that you should just bet on ad being
the he's still at the Adria could be a transformative player.
But am I two? And part of me is two,
blinded by what we've seen in Dallas and then the
recency biases the Clippers are awful, but James Harden is amazing.
But then should we be worried that the Clippers are
awful just by James Harden being amazing.
Speaker 2: Here's I think where we start. I think Towns is
just third because the best version of Towns is not
on these two guys level. Exclude age or whatever, like,
it's not like Towns is that young anyway.
Speaker 1: And you boil it down to you can't pay thirty
five percent of the cap to a floor spacing center
who is reluctant to space the floor and does and
can't play center that.
Speaker 2: Is not a center.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, so work our way backwards. Yeah, it's hard.
Hard has to be two because he's older. That's really
his contract. I feel better because he's already signing for less.
So there, I think they're deals. He has the player
option after this year, and Anthony Davis is gonna be
up for an extension. I just you can make a
case based on this season alone that it needs to
be hardened. But I think he's older and he's less
plug and play than a healthy a day.
Speaker 2: Right, right, If you trade for James Harden, it's very difficult.
It's just not not just any team can do that.
I think Davis is someone. Davis has to have the
highest trade value, So it's got to be Davis one,
hardened two Cat three.
Speaker 1: Our next one gonna start off with these three calling
an audible here, based off peak behind the curtain, based
off how this is going to be separated. Bam Adebayo,
Jalen Brown, and Jaron Jackson Junior. Who would you have
this is? This is another tough one.
Speaker 2: You know, this is a little easier for me. Let me.
I think has the highest trade value of the three.
I just I think you get some plug and play
elements there. They're all these guys are are portable. But
I think Bam can anchor the defense of a team
that looks a lot of different ways. I think the
playmaking he provides at center, I just I feel safe.
I feel I feel safe with Bam in ways I
don't with the other two. Do you agree that Bam
is the highest trade value there?
Speaker 1: I think that's right. He's the I mean, he is
the most versatile defender in the NBA, or at least
one of the most five, right, So when that and
then offensively, he can do things as a passer but
doesn't need to be dominating, and.
Speaker 2: The three point shot emerging this year for him makes
it so like you can't just say, well, it's Jackson
because of Because of that, I think I think Bam
on offense now is just I don't know, as good
or better than Jaron Jackson, certainly better than the version
of Jackson that's played this year so far, but who
knows what to make that Jalen Brown is, so I
think I feel like a lot of people will be like, no,
it's Jalen Brown. He's a two way wing that's career
high in efficiency in an alpha role. All of a
sudden this year, how is it not him?
Speaker 1: I think the contract makes you a little nervous. He
hasn't always been the healthiest, but I think he's more
than thinking about it. He's the clear number two, right
because Jared Jackson Junior might be a transformative defender, but
the same problems we've always kind of that feels solvable,
the rebounding, the foul trouble. Those are still the same
problems we're talking about for the better part of a
decade at this point. So he might be I don't know.
I mean it's Jalen Brown has been the more reliably
available one too his contra. The only reason to pick
Jared Jackson Junior might be the contract, and now that
he was renegotiating and extended. I don't think that argument
is strong anyway, right.
Speaker 2: And I think too you can use the reductive argument
of like finals MVP. I've seen Jalen Brown do it,
so there's huge value there. Also, like I think what
he's done this year, now, who knows if this is
going to hold up. But there was a real question
of like, so what's it look like if Jalen Brown
is your number one option? Offensively not bad is the answer? Like,
I think the contract's a huge deal because that's it's
just massive. But I think it's out of bio one,
Brown two, Jackson three.
Speaker 1: I like everything we say. I think that's right.
Speaker 2: All right. I will now force you, with my help
again to rank the trade value of Yannis, Anthony Edwards,
and Cooper flag.
Speaker 1: This one feels impossible because Giannis is three distinct phases
of career that we got to figure out. I think
I think Cooper Flag is number one. You have to
roll the dice on being and even because his rookie
year in Dallas, they've done everything they can to sabotage him,
and you know that the defense of the vision of
him defensively is going to work. What you might not
feel great about is what would he do if he
was the primary ball handler? As Jiannis has shown throughout
his career, is that you don't. You can win MVPs
without being the primary ball handler. Jannis feels safest. But
the age I'm giving up more to roll the dice
on Cooper Flag than for Yannis me is that dumb.
Speaker 2: I'm having a really hard time here. So here's how
I would try to answer the question. The Mavericks call
the Wolves and say we will give you salaries don't exist.
You can have Cooper Flag give us Anthony Edwards. I
think Minnesota says no. I think Minnesota says, we what
do you? We can't we have? It's Anthony Edwards like
you can't what else are you offering?
Speaker 1: I don't you.
Speaker 2: Imagine that's how it goes.
Speaker 1: I could see that, Well, let's work our way backwards.
Then Jannis is probably at three strictly because of the age,
And I don't know the.
Speaker 2: That's the thing these guys that this is such an
apples to oranges, to pairs like comparison. These guys are
it would this is it's a cop out. We will
rank them, but like, it depends on what stage of
your team, what stage of the evolution of your team
you're at, Cause if you're like, we gotta win immediately,
then it well, okay, Yannis, right, And then if it's
like we're kind of trying to split the difference, it's Edwards.
And if it's we'd like to be good in twenty
thirty one, it might still be Edwards, but it's more
likely going to be Flag. So I why isn't it
just Jannie's number one, and then it's Edwards and then
it's Flag. Why isn't it just the the quality of
the player today?
Speaker 1: If you're because you're trying to you're trying to scale forward,
But the way that you're framing it now makes me
think you should go. When we're talking about a multi
time MVP who can still be the best over thirty though,
I hate to frame it through that. Okay, do you
feel more comfortable giving up right now four first round
picks and three swaps for Giannis or Cooper Flag? What
makes you more comfortable?
Speaker 2: Uh? Man, I wish I'd seen more than like fifteen
games of Cooper Flag is my answer to that. So
maybe here's where I'm leaning. Why isn't it Why how
about Edwards is number one? Because you get a little
bit of the difference, right, Because honest, I agree, like
your time horizon with the honest is just too short.
I think to give up like the god just the
massive package of picks and players.
Speaker 1: And I do think you're right if you just put
Anthony Edwards, Like if you put Anthony Edwards and Giannis
Attenta Koompo on the open market at the same time.
I wonder if Anthony Edwards is gonna like that's the
the Timberwolves are getting the call first.
Speaker 2: I think so. I think so because you could imagine
the next five years you don't have Jianness declining was
a concern coming into this year, and with Edwards is
like that's ridiculous. He's still getting better and like Giannis
is a better player now, but it's like the difference
between the third fourth best player in the league and
the eighth or whatever. I think Edwards is won. I
think Edwards has the highest tree val flag.
Speaker 1: I just don't know what to do with I'm putting
him to. Okay, well, I think it's Giannis is the
safe bet at one even, but I'll go Edwards flag Jannis.
I'm going to invest more in the guy that I
think might be around for the next fifteen years. That's
just what I feel more comfortable doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to get out of this one, so
I'm gonna agree with you because this is too hard.
Speaker 1: Okay, Trade value rankings Jared Allen, Rudy Gobert, Domontes Sabonis.
Speaker 2: Boy, these feel pretty close. I kind of feel like
Alan what I wish I could remember his contract. It's
not the super cheap one. I think both. I think
Sabonis has three years left.
Speaker 1: So Jared Allen's going to start a three year extension
after this season.
Speaker 2: At what per year? Thirty?
Speaker 1: He's in the thirties.
Speaker 2: Man, is it Rudy Gobert because his contract is the shortest,
Because didn't they I don't.
Speaker 1: I would say it's absolutely not Rudy Gobert.
Speaker 2: Who do you feel good? Well, you're gonna have to
help him the collaborative side this because.
Speaker 1: I just Jared Allen's probably the clear number one for me,
and it's so he starts that so he's even under
thirty Yeah, I mean signing the contract is three years
and ninety million that starts next year. That's under eighteen
percent of the salary cap. Okay, I'm gonna go Jared Allen.
Speaker 2: It's because of that, because I think most people would
look at this list and say Jared Allen is the
third best player on it.
Speaker 1: Maybe okay, but he is. He seems easier to fit
in anywhere. Jamanti Suportis is the best player on this list.
I think not the season so far. The issue for
me is so Jared Allen has better hands than Rudy
Gobert and not the same defender, but probably a little
more versatile. Rudy is still during his minutes can kind
of be the defense under himself, but you're not. You're
giving something away on each end of the floor with
Gobert and some bonus go Bear offensively, sabonus defensively. You're
not giving too much away with Allen unless the floor
spacing element, but the screening is vertical spacing.
Speaker 2: Yep, Okay, I have it. I think I agree with you.
Allan is the number one in value. I think it's
Gobert t Sabonis three, and I think that's because of
what Gobert can be the defense. Unto himself. Sabonis has
been part of very good offenses, but like the defense
just isn't there, and you don't know what you've got
to build. Kind of creatively, I think around Sabonis on
offense and then certainly on defense.
Speaker 1: That might be. I think I might put sabonus at
two and go Bear at three. In fact, it's age
and then I just value someone who can drive your
entire offense more than I drive someone who can drive
your entire defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Me, I it's close. I think I think where
we do? I think Allen is one. I think that's
I think we've kind of officially landed there. I just
don't know, man, I think I still have Sabonis third.
The durability until.
Speaker 1: This year was a pretty big you're a bonus hater.
Speaker 2: I'm shocked.
Speaker 1: I'm shocked. I'm shocked.
Speaker 2: All Right, we have one more here, another former former King,
Diaron Fox, Laurie Markinen, and Austin Reeves. Who has the
highest trade value here?
Speaker 1: So maybe I'm galaxy braining this, but we don't know
what reeves Is next contract is gonna be, if he's
gonna be on a Max, which I'm just gonna assume, Okay,
he's on a Max. I'm I think I'm taking de
Aaron Fox one here. He's looked pretty good this Season's
is coming back from injury with the Spurs. He's the
better defender. Austin Reeves is probably I mean, who's the
better shot maker? I know Reeves can do more things
away from the ball. He does the relocate stuff really well.
I'm gonna go with Daron Fox at one. I think
he's the of this bunch that we named. Isn't he
the most bankable star? Reeves is what into his second
season as being the kind of it guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think partly because of the
sally and because he's a complimentary guy for sure. Marketing
is probably third, right, So we can start at the
end with with that.
Speaker 1: He's three, but this season he's having is that there's
a case for him to be two. He can't be one,
but two for sure.
Speaker 2: Like, what's he look like? Yeah? What is market in?
What does this version of marketing look like? With average
you know, shot creation and supporting offensive players.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. He has less than average offensive creation
and shop making around him now, and that's what he looks.
Speaker 2: That's what I mean. So is he definitely won if
if if the supporting cast is better, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that I value from scratch things a little
bit more, and so that's why I would lean Fox there.
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I think I think I think market
is three Fox and Reeves is a lot closer than
I would have thought. Reeves is a more efficient play
Reeves has more off ball value I think is fairly
well established. Right Like I think you're as a defense,
you're more worried about him being left open. Fox Is
track record is just longer though.
Speaker 1: Reeves is probably the better passer out of pick and rolls, right.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, and he's like just more creative. There's more
he could do more, there's more variety in what Reeves does.
I think on the ball, this isn't easy. And you
worry about Fox as a guy that has depended on
speed and athleticism, and what happens right when that goes
man Reeves though counter Reeves doesn't have a step to
lose athletically, but he's he might be more skilled. It's
kind of tied into like these more variety as like
as he splits a pick and roll, like what happens?
I don't know. Reeves will just like do whatever the
situation calls for.
Speaker 1: Did you just sell me on Reeves at one?
Speaker 2: I'm trying to sell myself. I think I think we
have to honor the just the body of work and
say Fox is won. But if Reeves tell me this,
if Reeves is not maxed out, if Reeves is making
thirty to thirty five a year, it's it's probably right him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's him, and that's wow. So Fox one, Reeves two,
market In three. I think So these were good. I
feel terrible about myself. Are you ready to take us
out of here?
Speaker 2: You know what we collaborated on these, and when we
are collaborating and feeling terrible about ourselves. Thanks everybody for listening,
for watching, Remember to rate, review, subscribe, Joiner discordananks for
that and they do YouTube and podcast description. Please let
us know how you would order, especially these trade values
and weigh in on any of the other stat adding
stuff we did. Because I feel like this is all
pretty ripe for discussion in the comments. That's going to
do it shouts Franklin Kin and apologies, Jared Allen