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<v Speaker 1>Imagine yourself a parent, well maybe you are one, and

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<v Speaker 1>suddenly your child starts to complain of an impending feeling

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<v Speaker 1>of doom. Then come apparitions, specters that they seem to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to see that no one else can, scaring

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<v Speaker 1>them very much, sir. And then come the shakes, the

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<v Speaker 1>fugue states, staring into the distance at something that only

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<v Speaker 1>they can perceive. You don't know what to do, so

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<v Speaker 1>you consult with the wisest person that you know, your

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<v Speaker 1>local priest, and he, with heavy heart, tells you that

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<v Speaker 1>your child has been possessed by a demon and it

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<v Speaker 1>must be exercised at all costs. Well, he says, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a demon, but we know now through medical science that

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<v Speaker 1>it's almost certainly something more like an epileptic fit. And

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it strange that so many symptoms of demon possession

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<v Speaker 1>can be explained through natural reasons? So do you believe

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<v Speaker 1>the demons really exist? That we are under threat, being

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<v Speaker 1>controlled and influenced by the minions of the Antichrist? If so,

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<v Speaker 1>please call us. We'd like to hear from you, because

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<v Speaker 1>the show's starting now.

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<v Speaker 2>As amazing Jamie, I love the I don't know and

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<v Speaker 2>you talk about demon possession and I'm on board, but

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<v Speaker 2>welcome everyone. Today is October twentieth, twenty twenty four. I

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<v Speaker 2>am your host, Sophia Spina, and joining me today is Blindlimy.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so how did you land on demons for today's discussion?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it was our producer and backup host, Richard, who

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<v Speaker 1>said that he'd been looking into demons, and I just

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<v Speaker 1>thought to myself, what angle can I come at it from?

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<v Speaker 1>And I realized that, you know, everything they always say

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<v Speaker 1>is a demon possession is either a completely explainable neurological

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<v Speaker 1>or physiological condition or just being being disobedient, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>been noughty. Therefore it must be the demons. And the

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<v Speaker 1>problem with it is is that exorcism as a practice

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<v Speaker 1>is quite traumatic. You know, of course it's completely useless

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<v Speaker 1>as far as we're aware, but much like other types

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<v Speaker 1>of spiritual healing or faith healing, it is misdiagnosing a

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<v Speaker 1>problem and providing a remedy that does more harm than

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<v Speaker 1>good and then stops a person from getting the help

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<v Speaker 1>they actually need. So yeah, serious stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I know this is like not necessarily something

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<v Speaker 2>we coordinated on, but I just watched The Exorcist for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time also, and was able to sort of

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<v Speaker 2>listen to a lecture about its cultural significance right after.

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<v Speaker 2>It was fascinating, and the idea that people didn't actually

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<v Speaker 2>ask for things like exorcisms. Prior to The Exorcist coming out,

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<v Speaker 2>that wasn't a common thing. Most Americans did not believe

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<v Speaker 2>in exorcisms. But to this day, the majority of Americans

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<v Speaker 2>do believe in exorcism. So it's really a movie that

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<v Speaker 2>created this, this cultural movement and this belief. Something else

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<v Speaker 2>I thought was really interesting was that when you have

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<v Speaker 2>a Catholic exorcism, they behave differently than when there's a

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<v Speaker 2>Protestant exorcism or a Hindu exorcism, or each faith operates

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<v Speaker 2>differently when they are I guess being exercised. And yet

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<v Speaker 2>it's supposed to be a consistent kind of demon or

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<v Speaker 2>demonic force. And I thought that was fascinating.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, again, it just shows that it's its perception and quackery.

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<v Speaker 1>And I the fact that people are now saying that

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<v Speaker 1>certain things are demonic or invite the demonic things into

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<v Speaker 1>the house, and that causes trauma to people. I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>like the New what they called it devil panic, what

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<v Speaker 1>do they.

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<v Speaker 2>Call it in the Satanic panic?

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<v Speaker 1>Satanic panic? Yes, So you've got people now taking and

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<v Speaker 1>it's usually actually partially political as well, taking things like oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I I won't have this Taylor Swift stuff in my

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<v Speaker 1>house anymore. It invites in the demons and they take

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<v Speaker 1>it all out and burn it or their Pokemon cards

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever, and it's like, come on, I thought we

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<v Speaker 1>were past this. Like they're just pieces of card with

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<v Speaker 1>cute pretend animals on them. They're not demonic.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, something that got me. I have so many thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>at once. I'm having three stooges syndrome. They can't get

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<v Speaker 2>to the door. But when I was younger, I was

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<v Speaker 2>around a lot of folks who were kind of the nice,

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<v Speaker 2>the friendly style of faith, and instead of actually saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>the demons are going to get you, they would talk about, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't know that. You know, Pokemon cards are

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<v Speaker 2>honoring to God, and we need to do things that

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<v Speaker 2>honor God, so you know, it's just best not to

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<v Speaker 2>have those in the house. Or when I asked about

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of a Ouiji board, and you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>those are obviously incredibly demonized, I guess is a word

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<v Speaker 2>that works here. And my mother, who I love very

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<v Speaker 2>much as a very smart woman in many ways, and

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<v Speaker 2>she was Church of Christ. They're not quite as they

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<v Speaker 2>don't do exorcisms really that I've heard of much, but

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<v Speaker 2>she would always just say, well, you know, it's better

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<v Speaker 2>not to not to invite anything in, not to leave

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<v Speaker 2>the door open. So I feel like a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the time we dance around to this idea of demons.

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<v Speaker 2>We're like, well, Jesus cast them out in the Bible,

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<v Speaker 2>so they exist. And they put this happier face on

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<v Speaker 2>our softer face on some aspects of Christianity because they're like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't do those crazy, big exorcisms, and yet you're

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<v Speaker 2>still instilling a fear of demons. When I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>I would wonder, if I feel a little bit sick,

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<v Speaker 2>is that a demon telling me I need to Like

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<v Speaker 2>it's tempting me to stay home. But if I go

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<v Speaker 2>to school anyway, maybe there's an opportunity to witness for

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus and the demon knows that. So I'm having this, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in my ten year old mind, this religious debate,

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<v Speaker 2>thinking is a demon telling me to stay home? Or

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<v Speaker 2>am I you know? Is that just me being selfish,

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<v Speaker 2>because also I could just be evil and bad too.

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<v Speaker 2>It was. It's sort of a cluster turkey of the

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<v Speaker 2>mind of a child to live like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can imagine. I can only imagine how traumatic

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<v Speaker 1>it could be to really have these things instilled in

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<v Speaker 1>you as real. It's one of the reasons why I

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<v Speaker 1>like media like Ghostbusters and like the Doom video games,

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<v Speaker 1>where it's like, yeah, demons are real, but we can

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<v Speaker 1>science them to death, Like I don't need an exorcist,

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<v Speaker 1>I need a chain gun and gent in my ears.

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<v Speaker 1>Then we can take on the demons. Anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is really interesting to I don't know, look back,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think I'm still unwinding what this meant for me.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know that you have the privilege of not

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<v Speaker 2>growing up fundamentally religious, and so yeah, I hope my

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<v Speaker 2>children won't have the same reactions that I did. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so real quick talk he Then is a product of

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<v Speaker 2>the Atheist Community of Austin of five oh one c

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<v Speaker 2>three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>and secular humanism, and the separation of religion and governments.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk Ethan is a live call in show and we

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<v Speaker 2>have open lines, so get your calls in at five

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<v Speaker 2>one two nine nine one nine two four to two

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<v Speaker 2>or from your computer at tiny dot cc slash call

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<v Speaker 2>t H. That's tiny dot cc slash c A L

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<v Speaker 2>L t H for Talkthen. Yeah, so we have a

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<v Speaker 2>question of the week as usual and uh called talk

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<v Speaker 2>Ethan to Me. Sorry, I'm always like a little halting

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<v Speaker 2>in my speech as I'm like reading and like look

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<v Speaker 2>at the camera. So just so everybody knows a little

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<v Speaker 2>behind the behind the scenes moment. So it is time

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<v Speaker 2>for our talk Ethan to Me a segment where we

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<v Speaker 2>get into the question of the week. Last week we

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<v Speaker 2>asked you what's really going on at Wednesday night service?

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<v Speaker 2>And here are our top three answers number three and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna get to cut to you for reaction Jamie

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<v Speaker 2>on on these after each one. Ok, number three the

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<v Speaker 2>psycho for twenty is I think how you say this

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<v Speaker 2>YouTube name? What really happens at Wednesday night services? They

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<v Speaker 2>perform rituals to summon demons. They confused with God.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, yeah, you think you're at your prayers are being

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<v Speaker 1>answered by the Almighty butle but it is perhaps the

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<v Speaker 1>Satan that is doing the fulfilling.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, I think that absolutely is possible. I think some

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<v Speaker 2>of these, particularly like Tick. If I'm gonna say I

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<v Speaker 2>believe in demons, right, I suppose there's a reality where

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<v Speaker 2>that's the case. The more I watch TikTok evangelists, the

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<v Speaker 2>more I'm certain they're listening to them.

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<v Speaker 1>It's also amazing how young they all are. They're all there,

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<v Speaker 1>they're TikTok youngsters looking for clout that they're doing with

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<v Speaker 1>a cross in their hand, and I'm like, this is

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<v Speaker 1>so weird.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's crazy the number that are shirtless too. Just

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<v Speaker 2>as an aside, like the the hot TikTok evangelists is

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<v Speaker 2>such a weird phenomenon right.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Rice.

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<v Speaker 2>All right? Number two response to what are they really

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<v Speaker 2>doing at Wednesday night services is from syrill or Siri la,

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<v Speaker 2>what are they really doing at Wednesday services? Studying up

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<v Speaker 2>on their speaking in tongues? You gotta be prepared at

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<v Speaker 2>any time to fake it, I mean channel the Holy Spirit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, gloss alalia not a not a real language. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just noises and nonsense. Like again, it's just another thing

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<v Speaker 1>that uses a physiological phenomena to induce a mind state

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<v Speaker 1>that they can use. If you're speaking tongues, you're usually

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<v Speaker 1>becoming breathless, you might get light headed, you'll start feeling

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<v Speaker 1>you fharic. That's God entering you, not the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>you're not breathing properly.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that. I feel like that's one of those

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<v Speaker 2>things that weird. A side story, I let a Bible

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<v Speaker 2>study in high school. I was that religious that I

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to convert people. And I'm sorry everyone, but

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<v Speaker 2>there was a second Bible study and we had Initially

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<v Speaker 2>we're both evangelicals, we were going to work together and

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<v Speaker 2>just do one, but we didn't agree on the importance

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<v Speaker 2>of speaking in tongues. They were way more hardcore about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So we ended up having two separate Bible studies, even

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<v Speaker 2>though we were pretty much from the same wing of Christianity,

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<v Speaker 2>just because that was such an important part of the faith.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was that was curious. Looking back. Our third

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<v Speaker 2>and final response of number one, we have here from

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<v Speaker 2>X million Wednesday night. That's ladies' night, Ama.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, it's just a it's just anoy lady's night.

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<v Speaker 1>Therefore nothing gets taught, no one speaks, because our lady

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<v Speaker 1>shall not teach the thing in the place says Bible. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like I'd like a Wednesday Night, Wednesdayight special Communion

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<v Speaker 1>where they switch out the wifers for tabs of LSD.

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<v Speaker 1>Really touch the Lord.

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<v Speaker 2>I know. I wonder how many demons you'd see. I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like, yeah, no, we've frimed people to see demons

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<v Speaker 2>in that specific circumstance. Oh yeah, don't. Don't. Maybe watch

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<v Speaker 2>this show and then do LSD. If you're religious. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess that would be my you know, the one person

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<v Speaker 2>out there that might be a problem for all Right,

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<v Speaker 2>So the prompt for next week is complete the sentence.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a mistake when God blank enter your answer

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<v Speaker 2>below the video and the comments, and next week we

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<v Speaker 2>will reveal the top three answers. But let me go

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<v Speaker 2>to our co host. All right, Jamie, So complete the sentence.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a mistake when God.

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<v Speaker 1>Made it so that we couldn't check his work because

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<v Speaker 1>we can't see before the first plank time. It's like, whoops,

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<v Speaker 1>all the proofs there, but you can't get to it.

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<v Speaker 2>My bad? Yea it Jamie? Right, that's you know, so

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<v Speaker 2>that we would have to have faith to be saved.

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<v Speaker 2>It was actually God playing forty chests.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, George Michael Faith Faith Faith Faith Faith.

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<v Speaker 2>YEP. I mean admittedly, like I do sort of love

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<v Speaker 2>that song.

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<v Speaker 3>So I do.

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<v Speaker 1>I ironically prefer the Limp Biscuit cover because I'm agreebo

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<v Speaker 1>from the nineties, don't you any want?

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<v Speaker 2>Though I've actually never heard the Limp Biscuit cover because

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<v Speaker 2>I was a child in the nineties, So maybe that's

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<v Speaker 2>something I get to look forward to now now I

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<v Speaker 2>realize I just sort of did an age age check

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<v Speaker 2>a moment there. Sorry, Sorry about that. I guess I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know should I be sorry about that. I'm sorry

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<v Speaker 2>if I made you feel old. I guess that's what

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to say.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't make me any feel any older than my knees,

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<v Speaker 1>back and ankles do every morning, anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>Fair enough? All right, Well, I love that answer. I

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<v Speaker 2>am anxious to see what our audience comes up with

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<v Speaker 2>in the comment section. Give us your best answer, and

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<v Speaker 2>tune in next week when we read our top three again.

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<v Speaker 2>That question is complete the sentence, It was a mistake

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<v Speaker 2>when God blank. So something that I also want to

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<v Speaker 2>mention is how fantastic all of the people who are

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<v Speaker 2>working behind the scene are. We have video and audio

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<v Speaker 2>people moderators, people who do notes and time stamps for

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<v Speaker 2>the show. We have call screeners. We have an enormous

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<v Speaker 2>number of people who work on the show, so I I, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>look at that.

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<v Speaker 1>They do all the hard work, so we don't really

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<v Speaker 1>have to sit here in flap argums. It's the easiest

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<v Speaker 1>part of the job.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at all those lovely people who are also so

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<v Speaker 2>kind as to have their cameras on so we can

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<v Speaker 2>see real faces and not just a bunch of icons

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<v Speaker 2>when we're going and thanking them. So I appreciate that,

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<v Speaker 2>and I appreciate the fantastic facial hair that so many

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<v Speaker 2>of them have. Man if I could grow facial hair, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean yours is. I have a lot of good

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<v Speaker 2>facial hair. I'm gonna say this on this show. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't I don't know how that happens.

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<v Speaker 1>It's where the wisdom comes from. The more you look

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<v Speaker 1>like a wizard, I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are not a lot of like dyed blonde

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<v Speaker 2>wizards in most fantasy canon unfortunately. So we have a

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<v Speaker 2>call from d who goes by them in Iowa, who

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<v Speaker 2>says that they used to believe in demons, but throughout

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<v Speaker 2>deconversion came to believe they are weaknesses in the mind

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<v Speaker 2>that can be eradicated by education, compassion, and reason. So

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<v Speaker 2>bringing d on, Hey, d I mean I love your

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<v Speaker 2>initial take on demons. Tell us what your what your

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts are?

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, Sophia, nice too, nice to finally get to speak

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<v Speaker 4>with you. Yeah, hello again, Jamie, Hello again. And yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>So in my very early twenties, I had a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of very rare types of experiences, and one that stays

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<v Speaker 4>with me that I was able to deconstruct on my

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<v Speaker 4>own was it was fairly dramatic. I had contracted pneumonia

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<v Speaker 4>and I was in the hospital and it was in

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<v Speaker 4>the middle of the night, and my hospital room door

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<v Speaker 4>opened and this little squat thing comes walking in. Definitely,

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<v Speaker 4>I mean definitely. You look at it and you think demon. Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm like, oh my god, there's a demon in my room.

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<v Speaker 4>And it walked straight up to my bed and it

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<v Speaker 4>wasn't it wasn't even tall enough for the top of

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<v Speaker 4>its head to reach the mattress. But it reached its

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<v Speaker 4>hand up to me and he said, if you take

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<v Speaker 4>my hand, your suffering will stop. Basically, come with me

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<v Speaker 4>and everything will be okay. And instead of accepting I

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<v Speaker 4>was like, no, that was all I had the strength

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<v Speaker 4>to say, but it was no, and it vanished. And

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<v Speaker 4>you know, after I'd recovered, I was out of the

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<v Speaker 4>hospital and went to my doctor with a for a

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<v Speaker 4>check up. And that was when my doctor told me

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<v Speaker 4>that I was dying. I was, I was literally dying.

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<v Speaker 4>The nurses were just waiting to call it. So that

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<v Speaker 4>sucked the hell out of me. And I started really thinking,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, about the significance of this, this creature in

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<v Speaker 4>my room. And as I thought about it and thought

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<v Speaker 4>about it, I realized, are either of you familiar with

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<v Speaker 4>dungeons and dragons?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm playing a game right now.

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<v Speaker 2>I am. I'm married to a big aficionado, and I've

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<v Speaker 2>also played a decent American.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, so do you know the cover of one of

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<v Speaker 4>the handbooks? It has this demonic statue in it with flames.

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<v Speaker 4>I'll bet your three year old books you'll find it.

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<v Speaker 1>I can I know the types of artwork that are

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<v Speaker 1>on the front. Course I can't. I can't think of

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<v Speaker 1>the exact artwork you're mentioned, but I can imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>It, and I'm not.

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<v Speaker 4>But yes, yeah, it was the spitting image of that cover.

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<v Speaker 4>And I also was an avid avid Dungeons and Dragons

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<v Speaker 4>playing player, and coupled with that, uh, coupled with that experience,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's it's the old. It's the first it's the

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<v Speaker 4>first player's handbook cover.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh right, a little bit before my time I got.

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<v Speaker 1>I got in in third edition. So so D and

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<v Speaker 1>D original and a D and D are a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit a bit old for me.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. If you just siphened first D and

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<v Speaker 2>D Player's handbook cover, it comes up right away, and

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<v Speaker 2>I can totally see what you mean. It's it's a

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<v Speaker 2>fat little dude who's got the pliny teeth and the

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<v Speaker 2>little ears. I totally see what you mean about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Looks like a conception of a team.

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<v Speaker 4>And for sure, uh huh, it was exactly that was

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<v Speaker 4>exactly the thing, except for the color was different. It

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<v Speaker 4>was kind of a muddy brown. But you know, with

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<v Speaker 4>what my doctor told me, and you know, I realized

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<v Speaker 4>at that moment it was not really a demon, that

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<v Speaker 4>it was a figment of a mind that was under

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<v Speaker 4>stress and dying, and it, for some reason, if my

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<v Speaker 4>mind was trying to comfort me, it came up with

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<v Speaker 4>the worst possible thing it could maybe that it was.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that it was an innate attempt to hang on,

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<v Speaker 4>if you see what I mean. And so that is why.

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<v Speaker 4>And unfortunately I went through many, many, many more years

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<v Speaker 4>in fundamentalist Christianity, but I never shook that feeling that

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<v Speaker 4>demons are a figment of what's going on in your

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<v Speaker 4>brain and your life, and that you need to try

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<v Speaker 4>to be reasonable and search out people who are reasonable,

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<v Speaker 4>not necessarily in your church. I turned to them less

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<v Speaker 4>and less as time went on. But yeah, compassion, reason

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<v Speaker 4>and education, that's that's what we need.

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<v Speaker 1>It is, and that's what we promote here. And as

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<v Speaker 1>I said in the cold open like, there are symptoms

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<v Speaker 1>that we can eat easily identify as coming from certain

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<v Speaker 1>maladies that are often attributed to demonic possession and that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing. One of the problems, though, is that

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<v Speaker 1>we can be as compassionate and reasonable and evidence based

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<v Speaker 1>as what as we like getting that message across and

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<v Speaker 1>having people accept it. I mean, that's why we do

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<v Speaker 1>these shows. I mean, we can say these things until

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<v Speaker 1>we're blue in the face, but until believers start actually

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<v Speaker 1>accepting that these things are just imagination fuel sparked by

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<v Speaker 1>their priming to believe in the supernatural. We can't. You

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<v Speaker 1>can lead someone to the facts, and you can lead

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<v Speaker 1>someone to the evidence, but they are the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>have to accept it. You can't force someone to let

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<v Speaker 1>go of these irrationalities. We just have to hope that

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<v Speaker 1>when people like yourself come on and give us examples

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<v Speaker 1>of your own deconversion and your own rationale around these

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<v Speaker 1>experiences that you had, that someone out there is going, man,

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<v Speaker 1>I had a very similar experience. Maybe I should start

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<v Speaker 1>asking few questions like D did. So thank you for

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<v Speaker 1>calling in for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, I'm sorry. I didn't want to cut on

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<v Speaker 2>your cut on your line, but go ahead. I think

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<v Speaker 2>about how you know, growing up in the church, and

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<v Speaker 2>you probably experienced this too. I've heard similar stories that

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<v Speaker 2>end with and that's how I know God is real.

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<v Speaker 2>A demon tried to tempt me with, you know, removing

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<v Speaker 2>my pain, and that's such a classic kind of story.

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<v Speaker 2>So I so appreciate that this story has a different

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<v Speaker 2>ending that you looked at it and we're like, I've

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<v Speaker 2>seen that demon before, though I was clearly this was

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<v Speaker 2>suggested to me, and that's why I'm seeing that we

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<v Speaker 2>have a bit of an alarm. Go I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>I'm hearing that in the spinner, I don't, okay, I

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<v Speaker 2>think Jamie's looking to see if there's something. But but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so I really appreciate that. It's like it actually made

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<v Speaker 2>you more critical instead of less critical, because it was

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<v Speaker 2>this big emotional experience, like have you ever watched BoJack

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<v Speaker 2>Horsemen of All Things? Yeah, it's a cartoon on I

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<v Speaker 2>think in Netflix, and it's it's if you struggle with

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<v Speaker 2>mental illness. I found a lot of value in it

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<v Speaker 2>because a lot it's about a sad horse who used

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<v Speaker 2>to be famous in the nineties. But there's an episode

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<v Speaker 2>where he is dying and he has quite a few

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<v Speaker 2>uh flashes into like different parts of his life, and

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<v Speaker 2>so he at one point asks, is this you know?

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<v Speaker 2>Is this the afterlife? Am I in heaven? Is this purgatory?

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<v Speaker 2>What's going on? And one of the people that he's

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<v Speaker 2>seeing turns to him and just says, no, this is

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<v Speaker 2>just what your brain doing, what it does you know

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<v Speaker 2>as you're dying, This is the pieces that are firing off.

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<v Speaker 2>And I thought that was you know, it can still

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<v Speaker 2>be meaningful and it can still have meant something, but

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have to lead to uncritical belief in God.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm curious, why do you think that others take

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<v Speaker 2>a different track, Because I know that, you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>have a background of faith. I have back in the faith,

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<v Speaker 2>so often people take this different storyline. Why do you

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<v Speaker 2>think that might be?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I think for me, I was just beginning my

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<v Speaker 4>fundamentalist journey. I hadn't tipped full tilt into it yet.

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<v Speaker 4>And while I had, I had imagery. I had a

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<v Speaker 4>children's Bible, I had imagery of Jesus around me growing up.

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<v Speaker 4>My parents were not religious. So I think that that's

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<v Speaker 4>the main thing, that the main difference there, I think,

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<v Speaker 4>And I think that maybe you know, people just handle

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<v Speaker 4>trauma differently. And yeah, I'm sorry, No, that was basically

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<v Speaker 4>my full thought.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, from my perspective, it's ironic. I actually

404
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.079
<v Speaker 1>think that some people hold onto these beliefs because they

405
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<v Speaker 1>find it more comfortable to believe that there are evil

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<v Speaker 1>entities and that causing harm. Rather than face the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that the world is just a natural place that can

408
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<v Speaker 1>be cold and cruel and uncaring and unfair. People would

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<v Speaker 1>prefer to believe in a malevolent intelligence rather than what

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be random. It's one of the reasons. I

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<v Speaker 1>think people will forgive and handwave the character of God

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<v Speaker 1>despite the fact that he's got a bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>track record of doing horrific, horrific things in the Bible.

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<v Speaker 1>They'd rather have have an all powerful despot than no

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<v Speaker 1>guidance at all. And it's that fear of the unknown

416
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<v Speaker 1>and being unable to control every aspect of the life.

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<v Speaker 1>Because if it's a demon, that means it's a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And if it's a thing, you can fight the thing.

419
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's it's something you can you can actually combat.

420
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.880
<v Speaker 1>But I just think it's weirdly as traumatic as it is,

421
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:57.519
<v Speaker 1>it's comfortable.

422
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:03.279
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well, I'm a born skeptic. You know, even some

423
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:06.920
<v Speaker 4>of the you know how watered down children's Bibles can be.

424
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.039
<v Speaker 4>Even some of the things I read in my children's Bible,

425
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:16.480
<v Speaker 4>I was like, what, you know? And the fundamentalism was

426
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:22.200
<v Speaker 4>just a search, you know, just a short a short

427
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:25.920
<v Speaker 4>run on a short highway that I was looking for something.

428
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:29.160
<v Speaker 4>I didn't know it at the time, but I was

429
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:35.200
<v Speaker 4>dealing with PTSD ADHD bipolar disease that all of that

430
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:38.759
<v Speaker 4>wasn't even diagnosed until years later. So I had a

431
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:41.880
<v Speaker 4>lot of stuff going on and I was found a

432
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:46.039
<v Speaker 4>community that I was comfortable in, but eventually sid things

433
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.880
<v Speaker 4>happened and my mindset changed and I got out of it.

434
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like something that I particularly with bipolar deserted,

435
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:01.319
<v Speaker 2>that the illusions are part of that, that actually being

436
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:06.079
<v Speaker 2>presented with evidence of paranoia somehow, or being able to

437
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:10.200
<v Speaker 2>interpret things as evidence for things that are not really there.

438
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.400
<v Speaker 2>I think people sort of forget that that's part of

439
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:15.599
<v Speaker 2>bipolar disorder a lot of the time. But I feel

440
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.240
<v Speaker 2>like it's so you see how it feels to me

441
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:20.559
<v Speaker 2>like the church takes advantage of that a lot of

442
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.359
<v Speaker 2>the time. Right, They don't bother to learn about what

443
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.839
<v Speaker 2>this could be. It's just that, oh, well, you know,

444
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:28.759
<v Speaker 2>obviously you saw a demon. It's a demon, you know,

445
00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:33.160
<v Speaker 2>not maybe it's nothing's chasing you. Maybe you're having a

446
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.759
<v Speaker 2>medical crisis. You know, that's very different. It's interesting to

447
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.960
<v Speaker 2>me too, that we, yeah, like we lean into these

448
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:44.559
<v Speaker 2>ideas of demons culturally during times when there's a lot

449
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.920
<v Speaker 2>of change. I am so not the first person to

450
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.200
<v Speaker 2>bring this up by any means, but you think about

451
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:51.559
<v Speaker 2>how much the world was changing in the eighties and

452
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:55.200
<v Speaker 2>how the Satanic panic became this big fear at the

453
00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:58.000
<v Speaker 2>same time missing children became a big fear at the

454
00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:01.160
<v Speaker 2>same time the AIDS crisis was happening. It's just a

455
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.559
<v Speaker 2>lot is changing in the world, so let's let's just

456
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:07.240
<v Speaker 2>all focus on this one thing. Yeah.

457
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.599
<v Speaker 4>Well, if you can blame it on demons, you don't

458
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:14.720
<v Speaker 4>have any responsibility. And I think that I think that

459
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.319
<v Speaker 4>in some ways that might be even more powerful than

460
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.359
<v Speaker 4>believing in a god. Believing in a demon means you

461
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:25.480
<v Speaker 4>can blame something else is happening in your life rather

462
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:27.680
<v Speaker 4>than taking a good hard.

463
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:28.160
<v Speaker 3>Look and seeing.

464
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:34.279
<v Speaker 1>It's an interesting thought in change. Uh yeah, I mean

465
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the amount of get out of get out of responsibility

466
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.480
<v Speaker 1>free cards. Again in religious doctrines, be it like a demon.

467
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Maybe do it. I was possessed by the devil. I

468
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.160
<v Speaker 1>did it, but I'm really sorry forgive me and now

469
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:50.599
<v Speaker 1>you are forgiven my son, you know, confessional and all

470
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:55.240
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing. It does you know you can

471
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.319
<v Speaker 1>once you step back and start looking at these structures

472
00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:02.240
<v Speaker 1>and these stories and these dogma, you go, yeah, this

473
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.039
<v Speaker 1>is just built so people can can control control people

474
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:13.200
<v Speaker 1>and justify the ills that they do. And and once

475
00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:15.559
<v Speaker 1>you once you see it, once you spot that you're

476
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.559
<v Speaker 1>like and it's everywhere, like all of them are doing this.

477
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:23.480
<v Speaker 1>It's it's it's nuts and and so again that's why

478
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:25.200
<v Speaker 1>we kind of do what we do here. It's like,

479
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.680
<v Speaker 1>can't you see it's like that film They Live. We're

480
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:29.559
<v Speaker 1>trying to put the sunglasses on them and we're having

481
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:33.400
<v Speaker 1>that massive back alley fight with with Roddie Roddy Piper

482
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.200
<v Speaker 1>where it's like put the glasses on. Don't you see

483
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.680
<v Speaker 1>these really obvious bad red flags in the in the

484
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.920
<v Speaker 1>things that not just in what you believe, but what

485
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.960
<v Speaker 1>your beliefs are being used to do to you.

486
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:54.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I was at I have heard in person

487
00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>a religious man that I knew during his sentencing here

488
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.240
<v Speaker 2>for child rape, say something about that he must have

489
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:10.000
<v Speaker 2>a demon inside him, and my brain glitched really hard,

490
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:15.559
<v Speaker 2>because what the hell? And my genuine thought is like,

491
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:19.839
<v Speaker 2>it's scarier to think you rape the child because you

492
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:22.400
<v Speaker 2>wanted to than it is to think that there's a

493
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.440
<v Speaker 2>demon in this person forcing them to do this bad thing.

494
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:28.839
<v Speaker 2>It's scary to say that this is something humans can

495
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:31.039
<v Speaker 2>be driven to do and can choose to do to

496
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:36.440
<v Speaker 2>one another without any extraterrestrial interference. That is horrifying. I

497
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.880
<v Speaker 2>am horrified by that. It doesn't make me feel better.

498
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:42.319
<v Speaker 2>I realize to not think it's a demon, to not

499
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:45.240
<v Speaker 2>think the devil made him do it. It gives you this

500
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.640
<v Speaker 2>out for all of humanity, that maybe if we just

501
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:52.880
<v Speaker 2>pray hard enough, just drive the demons out enough, just

502
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:57.720
<v Speaker 2>send the kids to you hardcore fundamentalist church camps enough,

503
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:02.000
<v Speaker 2>just remove things like dungeons, dragons in heavy metal, and

504
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.240
<v Speaker 2>just take away all satanic influences. If we just suppress

505
00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:08.480
<v Speaker 2>gangster wrap, then the world will be better. Then people

506
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:11.680
<v Speaker 2>will do all of the naturally good things God wants

507
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.559
<v Speaker 2>them to do instead of the demonic things that they're doing. Instead,

508
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:18.519
<v Speaker 2>when I'm like, nah, this is not it's us. It's

509
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 2>just us, and dealing with that is harder and scarier,

510
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:25.000
<v Speaker 2>but at the same time it's more real. It's the

511
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.519
<v Speaker 2>only way that it will matter what we do is

512
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.200
<v Speaker 2>if we realize it is us choosing to do these

513
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:32.200
<v Speaker 2>evil things. So that was a bit of a speech

514
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:32.599
<v Speaker 2>right there.

515
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:36.599
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, and it's also there is no divine justice.

516
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:39.000
<v Speaker 1>There is no punishment for this person after they're gone.

517
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:40.799
<v Speaker 1>They may have done the most heinous thing you can

518
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:44.000
<v Speaker 1>possibly imagine, but when they pop their clogs the same

519
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.279
<v Speaker 1>as all of us. It's blackness. There's not going to

520
00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:48.720
<v Speaker 1>be a judge waiting for them on the other side.

521
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I do have anger. Got to say in

522
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 2>my heart that's true. Okay, tell me about that, because

523
00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:58.799
<v Speaker 2>for me it's a very different reaction. So tell me

524
00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:00.200
<v Speaker 2>about it being comforting.

525
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.440
<v Speaker 4>That there's there's no forgiveness.

526
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.599
<v Speaker 1>Basically, Yeah, I still side of the coin. Yeah, he

527
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:09.519
<v Speaker 1>may not get punished, but you also can't ask for

528
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:12.000
<v Speaker 1>forgiveness either, right, And.

529
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.359
<v Speaker 4>Maybe that's kind of a bad part of me. I

530
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:15.559
<v Speaker 4>don't know.

531
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:17.079
<v Speaker 2>It's not a part of it.

532
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.839
<v Speaker 4>That some of my liberal friends are horrified that I support.

533
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:25.960
<v Speaker 4>But I mean, and I'm working on it. I'm I'm

534
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:31.279
<v Speaker 4>open to being persuaded otherwise. But I mean, if if

535
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:36.559
<v Speaker 4>we can't, if we can't do capital punishment, then at

536
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:39.920
<v Speaker 4>least we know he's not going to at least get

537
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.119
<v Speaker 4>any forgiveness out of it. I think you are the

538
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.720
<v Speaker 4>only people that forgiveness belongs to would have been the

539
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.880
<v Speaker 4>family of that little girl. They are really the only

540
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:55.880
<v Speaker 4>people that could legitimately extend it, and that's their decision

541
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:56.839
<v Speaker 4>whether they do or not.

542
00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh No, I think that sometimes you know, It's interesting

543
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.400
<v Speaker 2>because for me, I took a different perspective. I like

544
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.400
<v Speaker 2>yours because it does make me feel a little better.

545
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:10.920
<v Speaker 2>But you know, he's going to still even in present,

546
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.119
<v Speaker 2>he's going to be told by the other religious folks

547
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:16.480
<v Speaker 2>there that that's some kind of legitimate thing for him

548
00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:20.319
<v Speaker 2>to just to conceptualize this as that he will he'll

549
00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:23.920
<v Speaker 2>receive forgiveness, that that sin can be wa washed away,

550
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:27.000
<v Speaker 2>and that all sins are the same, and someone will

551
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.920
<v Speaker 2>smirk at them and say, no, one is righteous, no,

552
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.799
<v Speaker 2>not one, which has been told to me so often

553
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:35.039
<v Speaker 2>by Christians, even when I bring up something heinous like

554
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:39.920
<v Speaker 2>child rape right at verse man nikes yeah, yeah, And

555
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:40.359
<v Speaker 2>so I.

556
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.759
<v Speaker 4>Have there is yeah, I think is that if there

557
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:49.079
<v Speaker 4>is any cosmic justice at all in the universe, he

558
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.839
<v Speaker 4>may be granted just enough time to realize that it's

559
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:53.920
<v Speaker 4>all a lie.

560
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:57.839
<v Speaker 1>And the thing is like no matter what happens to him,

561
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.759
<v Speaker 1>like we said that girl kind of be unerraped, and

562
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:05.200
<v Speaker 1>that brings a sign to the whole uva of of

563
00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:09.839
<v Speaker 1>like divine punishment and divine justice being wrong in its receptions,

564
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.839
<v Speaker 1>Like God doesn't intercede in that horrific thing. It's part

565
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:17.799
<v Speaker 1>of the plan but he'll get his just desert the afterlife,

566
00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:20.319
<v Speaker 1>don't you don't you know? And I'm like, that is

567
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:25.759
<v Speaker 1>not justice, that's not fair. So yeah, yet another aspect

568
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:28.759
<v Speaker 1>of religious dogma that I can't get on board with.

569
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.960
<v Speaker 4>And you know, their favorite, their favorite argument is free will?

570
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 4>What about that little girl's free will? Don't talk about

571
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.359
<v Speaker 4>free will. That's not a thing I'm.

572
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Going to get. Like, there's there's rants I could go

573
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:45.519
<v Speaker 1>on about that. There's a there's a there's a yeah,

574
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:49.279
<v Speaker 1>there's a there's an exhibit in any music. I can't

575
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.400
<v Speaker 1>remember exactly where it was, but it's an exhibit of

576
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:58.279
<v Speaker 1>the clothes were worn bisexual assault victims in uh And

577
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 1>it's the whole like, well, she was asking for it?

578
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:05.000
<v Speaker 1>She was seven and wearing dungarees. Was she asking for it?

579
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:09.920
<v Speaker 1>How was she asking for it? And it boils my blood.

580
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.839
<v Speaker 1>I've been a step dad, I've been in charge of kids.

581
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.880
<v Speaker 1>I have had that protective kind of thing and just

582
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Speaker 1>the idea of someone Yeah, I canrdly put it into words.

583
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.880
<v Speaker 1>I can only just put it into like angry sounds basically,

584
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and to have it justified.

585
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:36.599
<v Speaker 4>Oh no, no, no, no, I got you. I got

586
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:40.400
<v Speaker 4>your demonic. I got your demonic exorcism right here, and.

587
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.079
<v Speaker 2>Do you will exercise? Yeah? I love it all right. Well,

588
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:51.440
<v Speaker 2>we've kept you on for a while.

589
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 4>I needed to share.

590
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.519
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate that a lot. Thank you so much for calling.

591
00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.440
<v Speaker 2>It was really nice to be able to chat with you.

592
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:02.839
<v Speaker 2>I've heard you the show before and I just appreciate

593
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:06.519
<v Speaker 2>your presence in many ways. And yeah, thanks for being

594
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.480
<v Speaker 2>here to have this heavy conversation with us too.

595
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.760
<v Speaker 4>Be Thank you you guys. You have a wonderful day.

596
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. It's nice to sort of hear stories of

597
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.199
<v Speaker 1>deconversion in people finding finding reason and yeah, the whole

598
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.159
<v Speaker 1>divine justice thing. It's like, I've got your law and

599
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:21.960
<v Speaker 1>order right here.

600
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.119
<v Speaker 2>I know it is interesting too, because I feel like

601
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:30.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the folks who want a physical, human

602
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:35.360
<v Speaker 2>level retribution are people who also claim to believe in

603
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:37.679
<v Speaker 2>a god, and I find that kind of interesting. I'm

604
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:41.039
<v Speaker 2>like that they don't necessarily believe. I would see it

605
00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:43.960
<v Speaker 2>as they don't actually believe this divine justice is coming.

606
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:49.480
<v Speaker 2>They also want to have their moment, and it's saying

607
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:53.280
<v Speaker 2>that Jesus forgave this person who may have committed multiple

608
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:55.760
<v Speaker 2>murders or whatever. It may be that's not good enough

609
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:58.400
<v Speaker 2>for them either, you know, so why act like it

610
00:34:58.440 --> 00:34:58.920
<v Speaker 2>is for us?

611
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:02.599
<v Speaker 1>Sorry? Is the thing as angry as I got that

612
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:05.760
<v Speaker 1>pro priest and anyone who does those heinous things, as

613
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.599
<v Speaker 1>much as I hope that they are punished for extent

614
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:12.039
<v Speaker 1>of the law, and if I mean, is rehabilitation possible,

615
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.079
<v Speaker 1>there's a big old discussion to get around that. I

616
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.800
<v Speaker 1>still don't think they deserve hell. I still think that

617
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:20.559
<v Speaker 1>hell is too extremely punishment for a crime, even that heinous.

618
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:24.800
<v Speaker 1>So again, these dogmas like oh hell, burn in hell forever.

619
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:27.840
<v Speaker 1>That's like, there's no crime I can think of, even

620
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.639
<v Speaker 1>one that bad that would deserve eternal torment.

621
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:35.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think for me it's a relief to

622
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:37.960
<v Speaker 2>not have to be deciding who deserves what and to

623
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.679
<v Speaker 2>not feel like I have any ability to determine that.

624
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:45.039
<v Speaker 2>I have the ability to help look at laws, past laws,

625
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:48.079
<v Speaker 2>discuss what is actually you know what, I have the

626
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:52.280
<v Speaker 2>ability to affect. But I don't need to have some big,

627
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 2>all encompassing idea of justice in this situation. It's I

628
00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>just need to think about how we live in a

629
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.800
<v Speaker 2>society with a we have now, And I've said before

630
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:05.280
<v Speaker 2>that it's good that I'm not in charge of all laws,

631
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.800
<v Speaker 2>because what I would feel should be done to someone

632
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.719
<v Speaker 2>who assaults a child and pretty much anyway, would be

633
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:13.280
<v Speaker 2>to have their skin graded off by a cheese grater

634
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and then throw them in a put an acid. You know, like,

635
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:18.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, that's pretty inhumane. I'm glad I'm not in

636
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:21.239
<v Speaker 2>charge of deciding that. You know, it's a good thing

637
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:24.440
<v Speaker 2>for everyone, that it's not just up to me and

638
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.079
<v Speaker 2>my feelings about what some divine dictate is giving me here, you.

639
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Know, Yeah, yeah, I think with a sort of super

640
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:33.000
<v Speaker 1>chat flasher, I think I did too.

641
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:36.760
<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen it come through on our little messages yet, and.

642
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:39.519
<v Speaker 1>This as soon as as soon as it do, we

643
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:40.280
<v Speaker 1>will read.

644
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:43.039
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we saw you. That's what we can say, we

645
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:48.079
<v Speaker 2>saw you come through real quick. Before that, we can

646
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:51.880
<v Speaker 2>talk about our cool fundraiser. As many of you know,

647
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:55.159
<v Speaker 2>we have initiated Phase two of our brick fundraiser. We

648
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:57.880
<v Speaker 2>want to highlight some of these standout orders we've received.

649
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:03.119
<v Speaker 2>This week's featured brick comes from Cassie from Louisiana. Drop

650
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:07.079
<v Speaker 2>your faith like a brick. That's so good. I'm giving

651
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:09.960
<v Speaker 2>snaps because I'm a cheesy person. But that's amazing. Thank

652
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:13.079
<v Speaker 2>you for your purchase, Cassie. You can get yours and

653
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:16.719
<v Speaker 2>put your clever little quip or something simple or whatever

654
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:18.719
<v Speaker 2>it is you want to put on it there at

655
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:23.280
<v Speaker 2>tiny dot c c slash ACA bricks. That's tiny dot

656
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:28.119
<v Speaker 2>cc slash ACA Bricks, and so yeah, it's I absolutely

657
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:30.639
<v Speaker 2>think you're making a permanent mark on the atheist community

658
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:35.679
<v Speaker 2>of Austin and where we're located, which is amazing. Not

659
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I guess that's why not all of the hosts are

660
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.320
<v Speaker 2>located there, but it's where the headquarters of this of

661
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:47.199
<v Speaker 2>this little nest of heathens. So you get to yeah,

662
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:49.920
<v Speaker 2>you get to put something there. It's really special.

663
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Actually, so yeah, something something bricked up, something something funny,

664
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:59.880
<v Speaker 1>because painous. Could you wanted to come up with a

665
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:01.679
<v Speaker 1>have a joke. I'm just going to acknowledge that there

666
00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:03.440
<v Speaker 1>is a dirty joke to be made out of that.

667
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.039
<v Speaker 2>I honestly feel like sometimes I'm just ready for that.

668
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:11.159
<v Speaker 2>Just you know, you mentioned Jenitalia, I'm I have the

669
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:15.679
<v Speaker 2>sense of humor of a middle school boy. Yeah. Available

670
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.599
<v Speaker 2>on tiny dot cc slash ACA Flyers our principal call

671
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:23.679
<v Speaker 2>in flyers as well. So post these with permission to

672
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.519
<v Speaker 2>community bulletin boards, so people know they should call our

673
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.199
<v Speaker 2>show and defend their faith. If you do post any flyers,

674
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:31.679
<v Speaker 2>make sure to snap a picture of it in place

675
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:36.480
<v Speaker 2>and send it to TV at Atheist dash Community dot org.

676
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:41.440
<v Speaker 2>That's TV at Atheist dash Community dot org. And we

677
00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:45.280
<v Speaker 2>may feature your photo on an upcoming show. So yeah,

678
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:47.880
<v Speaker 2>stick these up. Also, you know, just tell your friends

679
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:51.119
<v Speaker 2>if you get into an argument about religion or something

680
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:53.360
<v Speaker 2>like that and you're like, you should really give a

681
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.280
<v Speaker 2>call to this show and discuss it with the people

682
00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:59.800
<v Speaker 2>who have signed on to discuss this with you. That's

683
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.800
<v Speaker 2>definitely a good idea.

684
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Indeed, and have we perhaps I don't know whether I'm

685
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.039
<v Speaker 1>jumping around in the script, but maybe you should also

686
00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:11.639
<v Speaker 1>thank some patron. Is that something we can.

687
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:17.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we will get there in one moment. First, I'm

688
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:20.159
<v Speaker 2>going to tell everyone to follow talk Heathen on TikTok

689
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:25.239
<v Speaker 2>Talk Heathen, just one word, Talk Heathen and join us

690
00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:28.800
<v Speaker 2>for pre show lives at the ACA TikTok, which is

691
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Atheist Community of Bustin. So talk Heathen on TikTok, Atheist

692
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Community of Boston on TikTok as well. And those are

693
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:41.159
<v Speaker 2>pretty great okay, I see where arets are. Also, we

694
00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:44.400
<v Speaker 2>have merch get your talk Heathen merch at tiny dot

695
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:48.599
<v Speaker 2>cc slash merch Aca, tiny dot cc slash merch Aca.

696
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:51.039
<v Speaker 2>I need to get one of those wenesies. I keep

697
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:53.679
<v Speaker 2>not doing it. I need to do it. And then yeah,

698
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:55.840
<v Speaker 2>because I just had the baby and I think that's

699
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.079
<v Speaker 2>amazing and people being like, what is this logo on

700
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:02.079
<v Speaker 2>your child? Yeah, there's all sorts of goodies there. So

701
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.000
<v Speaker 2>definitely go to tiny dot cc slash merch Aca. I

702
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.239
<v Speaker 2>think I said that wrong. It's merches first. Merch Aca.

703
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Please like this video and subscribe to the channel, do

704
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:14.159
<v Speaker 2>all the things that help us enablementifications, and comment below

705
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:17.719
<v Speaker 2>on your favorite caller or your thoughts on demons or

706
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:20.559
<v Speaker 2>your favorite demon. I mean, come on, why not? And

707
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:24.159
<v Speaker 2>uh so, yeah, all right, I see there are super

708
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.679
<v Speaker 2>chats that were made in Giant Giant Fought Now so

709
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:29.800
<v Speaker 2>that I will be able to see them very obviously.

710
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm a bit notorious for missing things

711
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:36.719
<v Speaker 2>that are very clearly in our show document. So yes,

712
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:39.360
<v Speaker 2>here are some super chats we have. We have Nero

713
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 2>five dollars and says so D saw a tiny grand

714
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.480
<v Speaker 2>duke Moloch, Lord of the sixth Circle, viceroyal bells above

715
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Lucky also three point five e is that experienced superiority

716
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:58.360
<v Speaker 2>slay the gods. I love that Nero had much of

717
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:00.679
<v Speaker 2>a better idea of going on then.

718
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.599
<v Speaker 1>We us three point five edition. I bet Nero place

719
00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:06.880
<v Speaker 1>path find now. But he's one of those people anyway.

720
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:10.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, he'll have to let you send it another super

721
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:12.599
<v Speaker 2>chat to let us know. I'm like, thank you for

722
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the five dollars. We want to keep knowing more about

723
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.960
<v Speaker 2>your depth of knowledge of this particular story. We have

724
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:23.800
<v Speaker 2>less than Lucid, who sent six dollars and sixty six cents.

725
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Aah love it. Hey, quick reminder that it is Ace week.

726
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:33.039
<v Speaker 2>Asexuals are all valid. That is true. We celebrate all

727
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:36.320
<v Speaker 2>of the sexualities here on the show SLASH, at least

728
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.639
<v Speaker 2>when we're hosting. I think everybody does. But yeah, being

729
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:42.000
<v Speaker 2>ace is totally valid. I think it gets short shift

730
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:45.239
<v Speaker 2>sometimes it's it's not discussed openly, but it is totally

731
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:50.960
<v Speaker 2>possible to simply not be particularly sexually interested in folks.

732
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.559
<v Speaker 2>And there's even a spectrum within that I know, And

733
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:59.559
<v Speaker 2>so yeah, that's that's awesome. I also recommend but Jack

734
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Horseman again because as a really major ACE character with

735
00:42:01.639 --> 00:42:02.920
<v Speaker 2>a wonderful storyline about it.

736
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh, the several the several content creators on the internet

737
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:10.559
<v Speaker 1>either are ACE. I very much enjoy Jade Animations is

738
00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:14.199
<v Speaker 1>one and overly sarcastic productions. Read can recommend their content

739
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:18.360
<v Speaker 1>very good. They're also both ero ace and are awesome.

740
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:21.360
<v Speaker 1>People can recommend I love it.

741
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:23.199
<v Speaker 2>You know, all the people I know who are a

742
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:25.599
<v Speaker 2>are awesome people just as like a sage. Note, I

743
00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:26.320
<v Speaker 2>don't huh.

744
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:28.280
<v Speaker 1>This is one of the frustrating things that I see

745
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:32.880
<v Speaker 1>about Whenever the whole like anti LGBT or anti trans

746
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:37.480
<v Speaker 1>or any any sort of thing comes out, it almost

747
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.920
<v Speaker 1>seems surreal because I'm like, have you met any of

748
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.639
<v Speaker 1>these people? Because every single one I've met has been

749
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:48.840
<v Speaker 1>a singularly excellent person like and also weirdly talented.

750
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:51.159
<v Speaker 2>It's true.

751
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:56.159
<v Speaker 1>Actually, yeah, every single trans person I've known personally has

752
00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:59.119
<v Speaker 1>either been like a doctor or a physicist or a

753
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.360
<v Speaker 1>rocket sign taste or like, I mean, I don't know

754
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:05.480
<v Speaker 1>what it is. Maybe you get magic fucking powers to

755
00:43:05.559 --> 00:43:08.679
<v Speaker 1>as a as A as a compensation for all the

756
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:10.840
<v Speaker 1>horrific months since you've got to put up with as

757
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:11.960
<v Speaker 1>a marginalized person.

758
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:14.239
<v Speaker 2>But I hope so I feel like that would be

759
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:17.280
<v Speaker 2>that would be just you know, I would say though,

760
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:19.760
<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure I am sort of assuming you agree

761
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:22.039
<v Speaker 2>with this too, is that even if you are a

762
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:24.920
<v Speaker 2>total piece of shit, you deserve rights. So even if

763
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.840
<v Speaker 2>you were a transperson who also is just like I'm

764
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>just going to be a meani, then you still deserve rights.

765
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Just don't be a meani. I would recommend I have

766
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.360
<v Speaker 2>another super chat from some kind of Dicky who is

767
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:39.639
<v Speaker 2>a member of one month. Thank you very much for

768
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:43.480
<v Speaker 2>being a member, sent five dollars. If you can blame demons,

769
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.159
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to take responsibility collar D quoted for truth.

770
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I love that.

771
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Also, some kind of speaking of D and D sometimes

772
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:54.000
<v Speaker 1>some kind of Dicky is our DM. He's hard Engin master.

773
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:55.679
<v Speaker 1>So thank you, Scott.

774
00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:58.079
<v Speaker 2>That's really cool. I didn't I didn't know that actually.

775
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.760
<v Speaker 2>And then Richard, Okay, I still am not sure if

776
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:05.599
<v Speaker 2>it's Giliver or Gilver, and I'm going to feel like

777
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:09.000
<v Speaker 2>an idiot about this, but you all know him in Lovin.

778
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:13.639
<v Speaker 2>It's a member of two years who and our producers

779
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.920
<v Speaker 2>at five pounds because he's British and fancy I don't

780
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:18.599
<v Speaker 2>know why all British things are fancy. They just are

781
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to me. But I'm just going to call the keyboard

782
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:24.360
<v Speaker 2>warrior theis out, stop preaching and start calling. It's really

783
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:27.119
<v Speaker 2>really easy to do. Yes, give us some calls, you

784
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:31.760
<v Speaker 2>keyboard warriors. Yes, I'm sure your mouth can move faster

785
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.320
<v Speaker 2>than your fingers. I don't need as far. The implications

786
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:36.039
<v Speaker 2>are saying.

787
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.199
<v Speaker 1>That, I guess far easier to stand and heckle at

788
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.519
<v Speaker 1>the sidelines than suffer the spear at the point of

789
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:43.039
<v Speaker 1>at tech.

790
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:47.199
<v Speaker 2>I love it. That's hard. I like that a lot.

791
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:49.159
<v Speaker 2>What is that from?

792
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Are you paraphrasing from King Ralph? Speaking of British people

793
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.519
<v Speaker 1>and American people and royalty and stuff? So pretty funny

794
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.000
<v Speaker 1>film that once John Goodman becomes the King of England.

795
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, that sounds great. I love He's one

796
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.880
<v Speaker 2>of my celebrity presses. Weirdly, I know that's a strange

797
00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:10.639
<v Speaker 2>one for some people, but who doesn't loved Goodman anyway?

798
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:13.559
<v Speaker 2>All right, So we actually have another caller, Bruce he

799
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:18.239
<v Speaker 2>him from Alabama, on their approach to atheism. Instead of

800
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:21.400
<v Speaker 2>preaching at theis, ask questions and talk about the mechanisms

801
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:25.880
<v Speaker 2>behind their beliefs. Okay, let's talk about that. Bruce. Tell

802
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.400
<v Speaker 2>me about your approach to atheism and what's going on there.

803
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:32.320
<v Speaker 3>So, what we do a lot of times as atheist

804
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:35.719
<v Speaker 3>is we approached the subject, but the way we would

805
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:39.480
<v Speaker 3>talk to another intellect, for instance, we say, Okay, I've

806
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:42.440
<v Speaker 3>got these facts that disprove of God, or you know

807
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:44.760
<v Speaker 3>your facts that prove of God. Here, I'm going to

808
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:48.000
<v Speaker 3>show how those are fallacious. I think an approach that

809
00:45:48.039 --> 00:45:52.480
<v Speaker 3>I've used more is to say ask questions like, Okay,

810
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:56.719
<v Speaker 3>faith is a virtue, why that's not a behavior of

811
00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:59.719
<v Speaker 3>an institution is trying to give you truth. If it

812
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.559
<v Speaker 3>was truth, they would say, look at the fact, But

813
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:05.880
<v Speaker 3>rather they say they present this mechanism that you would

814
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.000
<v Speaker 3>expect to hear from a car used car salesman.

815
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:10.800
<v Speaker 2>You follow me, Yeah, I'm actually jotting that down. I'm like,

816
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:11.519
<v Speaker 2>that's a good question.

817
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:12.599
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

818
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.840
<v Speaker 3>Other examples might be, you know, people say, okay, I've

819
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:18.679
<v Speaker 3>got this proof that the world is six thousand years old,

820
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:20.440
<v Speaker 3>and we come back and say, oh, that's not proof

821
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:23.960
<v Speaker 3>because of this, Well, they have a defense mechanism that

822
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:24.920
<v Speaker 3>they've been taught against.

823
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:25.000
<v Speaker 2>That.

824
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:27.280
<v Speaker 3>So if you take it to the next step and say, okay,

825
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:29.239
<v Speaker 3>if they had to do this, if they had to

826
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:33.639
<v Speaker 3>use this fallacious argument, that's a behavior again of something

827
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.000
<v Speaker 3>that is someone that is trying to sell you something

828
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:38.320
<v Speaker 3>rather than something just trying someone is trying to give

829
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:39.000
<v Speaker 3>you a truth.

830
00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:41.880
<v Speaker 1>You follow me, I think so though I would I

831
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:45.440
<v Speaker 1>would push back slightly. I'm sorry, go ahead, I'd say

832
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.519
<v Speaker 1>I pushed back slightly, because if you're trying to convince

833
00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:51.920
<v Speaker 1>them that that that these are techniques that are given

834
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:56.119
<v Speaker 1>to them by organizations and thought process thought models that

835
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:58.599
<v Speaker 1>are not heeding towards truth, they will say, no, I

836
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:00.920
<v Speaker 1>have the truth. It has to be revealed to me.

837
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Like they are convinced they are they have the truth,

838
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.079
<v Speaker 1>and so they won't see that they're not being given

839
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:10.679
<v Speaker 1>truth seeking tools or maybe a misunderstanding.

840
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.039
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying just simply push back and say they're.

841
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Lying to no, no, no, no, no, but like, but

842
00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:20.000
<v Speaker 1>trying to convince them that they are they that the

843
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:25.960
<v Speaker 1>systems in which they work are ones that are patently

844
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:32.280
<v Speaker 1>not encouraging proper truth seeking, I think would bounce off

845
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:35.639
<v Speaker 1>most like true believers, because they are convinced they have

846
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.880
<v Speaker 1>the truth. It has been revealed to them by the Lord.

847
00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:41.159
<v Speaker 1>It is written on their hearts. How do you get

848
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:42.199
<v Speaker 1>how do you get around that?

849
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but I have had success with this argument. But

850
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:50.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to actually bypass that. Their their arguments are

851
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:53.920
<v Speaker 3>to push back the reflexes, to push back on the fact.

852
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.079
<v Speaker 3>Like if I come to them and I'd say, I

853
00:47:56.119 --> 00:47:59.639
<v Speaker 3>have this larger argument again, problem of evil. Oh but

854
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:02.559
<v Speaker 3>if you free will because you all this, and if

855
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:05.599
<v Speaker 3>you instead of saying pointing out the problems with their

856
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:09.159
<v Speaker 3>counter argument, you say why you know you approach the

857
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:13.639
<v Speaker 3>mechanisms behind their faith and say, now, honestly ask you yourself,

858
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:17.239
<v Speaker 3>why is this way? I have had some success.

859
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.039
<v Speaker 2>With that, So may I ask, oh, sorry, go ahead, what.

860
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:22.280
<v Speaker 3>Was your point?

861
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:26.039
<v Speaker 2>What is the response? How do people tend to when

862
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:27.920
<v Speaker 2>you say have had success with this? What's kind of

863
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:30.400
<v Speaker 2>their their response? How do you know you've had success

864
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:32.840
<v Speaker 2>with it? I guess I'm not questioning you. I'm just

865
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:33.920
<v Speaker 2>wondering what does that look like?

866
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:38.719
<v Speaker 3>The reaction is sometimes they shut down like you, like

867
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.400
<v Speaker 3>you said, and other times it just throws them for

868
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:43.159
<v Speaker 3>a loop. And I've had people come back to me

869
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:45.440
<v Speaker 3>later and say I've had to think about that one.

870
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:47.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, what I mean response, I have to think

871
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:49.760
<v Speaker 2>about it like it Yeah, And my.

872
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:53.159
<v Speaker 3>Point is sort of to get around that that training

873
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:55.840
<v Speaker 3>that they've had to say, oh, this is the truth

874
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:59.360
<v Speaker 3>to send your faith. I've had this apologetics training. Well

875
00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:02.639
<v Speaker 3>you look the apologetics training, you know. Another example would

876
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:06.599
<v Speaker 3>be to point out the apologists institutions are all they

877
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.320
<v Speaker 3>have these arguments that've been debunked for years and they're

878
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.639
<v Speaker 3>still presenting them. Okay, I'll push back on that, but

879
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:13.679
<v Speaker 3>then you say why is there Yeah.

880
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Kind of taking the making the picture bigger. I feel

881
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:20.280
<v Speaker 2>like I think about how when I was younger and

882
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.880
<v Speaker 2>in the church, it was a Baptist church that I

883
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.880
<v Speaker 2>frequented at the time, you were pretty much trained to

884
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:29.079
<v Speaker 2>give all sorts of arguments, and you were given all

885
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:31.800
<v Speaker 2>the books of Case Very Creator and Case for Christ.

886
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:34.840
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I actually read them, and it's a

887
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:36.840
<v Speaker 2>little embarrassing to say that when I look back at them,

888
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:40.320
<v Speaker 2>things that I thought were totally reasonable and logical, I

889
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:41.840
<v Speaker 2>would look at now and be like, how did I

890
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 2>think this? But to move on from head to head argument,

891
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:49.280
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like you're saying to say, like, well, why

892
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:52.360
<v Speaker 2>are these books all packaged? And why is this sort

893
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:54.760
<v Speaker 2>of shoved into you in youth group, like that's kind

894
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:56.840
<v Speaker 2>of an odd thing, don't you think that that's sort

895
00:49:56.840 --> 00:50:00.519
<v Speaker 2>of a weird thing to do or making looking at

896
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.360
<v Speaker 2>the context of the arguments that we're making, maybe looking

897
00:50:03.400 --> 00:50:06.000
<v Speaker 2>at the context of how this church is operating in

898
00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:09.599
<v Speaker 2>the world and questioning that maybe instead of getting into

899
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:12.960
<v Speaker 2>like a head to head argument. It also feels a

900
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 2>little bit like this is going to be maybe a

901
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:19.320
<v Speaker 2>little squishy sounding. But I think oftentimes the public faith

902
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:22.960
<v Speaker 2>of atheism is just debates. It's debates all the time.

903
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:27.559
<v Speaker 2>It's facts on facts, and atheists just like to debate facts,

904
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and they're easily marginalized or characterized as here's this, you know,

905
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:34.920
<v Speaker 2>atheist who just wants so bad to reject God that

906
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:38.119
<v Speaker 2>they're just gonna pick on all these little things, which

907
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:40.719
<v Speaker 2>doesn't feel right. As an atheist, I don't feel that's true,

908
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:43.079
<v Speaker 2>But that's how it was characterized to me when I

909
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:45.639
<v Speaker 2>was part of the church, and I bought into that,

910
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:48.039
<v Speaker 2>and that was what I saw of atheism. So to

911
00:50:48.039 --> 00:50:50.760
<v Speaker 2>have someone questioning more about I would say, almost the

912
00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:54.559
<v Speaker 2>softer bits of religion, the things that aren't here, go

913
00:50:54.639 --> 00:50:56.880
<v Speaker 2>fight for your faith. But that are like, you know,

914
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.559
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of an odd thing to do, Like,

915
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:02.719
<v Speaker 2>why do you think they're doing this? I think that

916
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:07.320
<v Speaker 2>that's I think there's some legitimacy to that for sure, personally. Anyway,

917
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:09.800
<v Speaker 2>may I ask, I know you're in Alabama, were you

918
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:13.119
<v Speaker 2>always an atheist or were you a person of faith

919
00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:13.679
<v Speaker 2>at a time?

920
00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:17.440
<v Speaker 3>It was a bizarre trip journey. I was born in

921
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:21.639
<v Speaker 3>East Tennessee and the Appalachian Mountains, which is thick Baptists,

922
00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:24.159
<v Speaker 3>so I was raised in the Baptist tradition. Had had

923
00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:28.320
<v Speaker 3>some questions was atheists when I was a teenager, actually

924
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.480
<v Speaker 3>reconverted I guess you would call it one. In my

925
00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:36.480
<v Speaker 3>twenties was went to Methodists, then converted to Catholicism. And

926
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:40.039
<v Speaker 3>then one day, you know, I'd always been questioning the

927
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:42.280
<v Speaker 3>question type and then one day, I can tell you

928
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:45.599
<v Speaker 3>the exact spot I was driving, I thought, you know,

929
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:48.400
<v Speaker 3>you just believe because you want to believe. That's the

930
00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:51.360
<v Speaker 3>only reason. And from that point on, I certain identifying

931
00:51:51.400 --> 00:51:52.039
<v Speaker 3>as atheists.

932
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:56.920
<v Speaker 1>It takes to do that, I'm sorry. It takes a

933
00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:58.599
<v Speaker 1>lot of introspection to do that. It takes a lot

934
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:04.480
<v Speaker 1>of bravery and mental honestly, honestly, thought to just realize

935
00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:05.840
<v Speaker 1>that it was.

936
00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:08.960
<v Speaker 3>A very, very long trip. Yeah, that's a very long journey.

937
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:12.920
<v Speaker 3>And today I still I still have to intellectually keep

938
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:16.719
<v Speaker 3>open the idea that theism could remotely there could be

939
00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:20.760
<v Speaker 3>for some pharmacism, especially with all of the different definitions

940
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:23.760
<v Speaker 3>of the God. I think, I think Christianity is touch

941
00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:26.599
<v Speaker 3>at the bottom of the list as far as the possibilities.

942
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:28.960
<v Speaker 3>But you know, there's all way up to the out

943
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:30.559
<v Speaker 3>of Spinosa, which.

944
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Is a nature.

945
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:38.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, that the laws of physics of the universe

946
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:41.000
<v Speaker 3>can be defined if a god. Now I kind of

947
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:42.559
<v Speaker 3>think that's a cop out.

948
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Uh, but I mean living in the time he was living,

949
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:48.960
<v Speaker 2>and I can't start of see yeah, sorry, just I'm

950
00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:53.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm a big Spinosa fan. Actually, sofia Spina comes from Spinoza.

951
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:58.239
<v Speaker 2>Spina is a version of yeah Spinosa. Anyway, I kind

952
00:52:58.239 --> 00:52:59.840
<v Speaker 2>of agree that if somebody would argue that, to me,

953
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:01.480
<v Speaker 2>it's a bit of a cop out. But I also

954
00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:03.199
<v Speaker 2>look at the time he was living in and when

955
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:06.079
<v Speaker 2>he was characterized as an atheist, he was more maligned,

956
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:10.159
<v Speaker 2>he was in more danger physically, and he was already

957
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:13.480
<v Speaker 2>excommunicated from his community at this at this point and

958
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:15.559
<v Speaker 2>they were a community of Jewish folks who'd had to

959
00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:19.159
<v Speaker 2>move to the Netherlands because they were You probably know

960
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:20.360
<v Speaker 2>all this, so I'm just saying this kind of for

961
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.559
<v Speaker 2>the record. But they had to move to the Netherlands

962
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:24.760
<v Speaker 2>because they were being persecuted in Spain. So he was

963
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:28.440
<v Speaker 2>already run out of places for the particular slant of

964
00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:32.239
<v Speaker 2>religion that his community had. So I wonder a little

965
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:34.840
<v Speaker 2>bit if his version of God was so that he

966
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:37.400
<v Speaker 2>could say I'm not an atheist. So he had a

967
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:41.480
<v Speaker 2>version of God, and maybe that was pragmatic rather than

968
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:44.280
<v Speaker 2>an earnest belief. I don't know. I cannot speak for Spinoza,

969
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:47.679
<v Speaker 2>but I definitely I would say if somebody argued that now,

970
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I would see it as a bit of a cop out.

971
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:52.199
<v Speaker 2>I agree, But I wonder about the context with that one.

972
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:54.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's the reason why I called myself an

973
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:58.000
<v Speaker 1>agnostic for a long time, because it was safer, it

974
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:02.000
<v Speaker 1>was easier, it was more accepted. It's still true, like

975
00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:05.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't know that God doesn't exist.

976
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:11.280
<v Speaker 1>I can I can define certain gods as illogical for existing.

977
00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:15.519
<v Speaker 1>Any triomne like I do not believe exists because it's

978
00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:19.760
<v Speaker 1>logically not possible to do that, like the problem of evil,

979
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.320
<v Speaker 1>problem of divine hiddenness, you know, but that's not every

980
00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:26.039
<v Speaker 1>god or every god concept. So I and I don't

981
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:30.440
<v Speaker 1>like making truth claims on gods. I much prefer to say,

982
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:33.960
<v Speaker 1>you have a belief in this this particular definition of

983
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:37.760
<v Speaker 1>a god. Can you demonstrate it to me? Is it demonstrable?

984
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:41.679
<v Speaker 1>And certain god definitions like deism, No, it isn't demonstrable,

985
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:43.400
<v Speaker 1>And all I can say to that is then then

986
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.079
<v Speaker 1>it is useless to me. It is indistinguishable from a

987
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.719
<v Speaker 1>universe that does not have a god. So it's a

988
00:54:48.760 --> 00:54:52.119
<v Speaker 1>pointless belief in my opinion. But we're geting a little

989
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:53.679
<v Speaker 1>bit off track. Is there anything else that's on your

990
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:56.400
<v Speaker 1>mind then, Chief, No, just I.

991
00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Just like to encourage people to give that approach a shot.

992
00:54:59.119 --> 00:54:59.320
<v Speaker 2>You know.

993
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:04.400
<v Speaker 3>The big question is I mean probably the most important

994
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:07.039
<v Speaker 3>question in asking that is sort of ask questions that

995
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:10.119
<v Speaker 3>lead you to stop and think about why is this

996
00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:15.559
<v Speaker 3>belief or why is questioning discouraged or seeing as something

997
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:18.119
<v Speaker 3>that needs to be fixed in the community if they're

998
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:20.280
<v Speaker 3>talking about truth. So I think that that's sort of

999
00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:22.000
<v Speaker 3>sound what I'm.

1000
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Going with this ahead, Well, I appreciate that a lot. Yeah,

1001
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:26.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say bye to you at this moment

1002
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:30.320
<v Speaker 2>because then we've got to read our patreons. But I

1003
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:33.039
<v Speaker 2>really appreciate that perspective personally. I look at it and

1004
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:38.039
<v Speaker 2>I think, like, for me in my deconversion journey, I

1005
00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:42.000
<v Speaker 2>knew so many arguments that I'd memorized, so many arguments

1006
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:45.039
<v Speaker 2>for sieccess in your Earth even at one point, or

1007
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:50.119
<v Speaker 2>that we're anti evolution, and having questions about the institutions

1008
00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:53.840
<v Speaker 2>that were teaching me did come before being open to

1009
00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:59.199
<v Speaker 2>the scientific aspects of things or like the demonstrated proofs

1010
00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:02.760
<v Speaker 2>of things. And I don't know if that's you know,

1011
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't think there's one right way for someone to

1012
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:07.639
<v Speaker 2>be deconverted. I think different things are going to speak

1013
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:10.519
<v Speaker 2>to different people. But for me, I had to be

1014
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:13.519
<v Speaker 2>open to the idea that the institution was wrong first,

1015
00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:16.440
<v Speaker 2>and then I started realizing that I had been I

1016
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:20.360
<v Speaker 2>don't know if it's lied to, but certainly misled about science.

1017
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:23.599
<v Speaker 2>I thought that Lucy was the only specimen from you know,

1018
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:28.000
<v Speaker 2>her ere that we had of something that came before humans.

1019
00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:32.639
<v Speaker 2>I thought that a six thousand year Earth, I had

1020
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:34.199
<v Speaker 2>to say that it was possible because I had to

1021
00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:35.920
<v Speaker 2>say that all things were possible through God, so I

1022
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.039
<v Speaker 2>couldn't really say it was impossible. And I'm like, if

1023
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I was able to side step that, I was able

1024
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:42.679
<v Speaker 2>to start seeing a lot more of reality, a lot

1025
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:45.719
<v Speaker 2>more truth. So I think I needed that kind of

1026
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:50.360
<v Speaker 2>approach personally also because it enabled me now as an

1027
00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:52.519
<v Speaker 2>atheist to look back and be like, oh, yeah, I

1028
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.760
<v Speaker 2>know what arguments you're making, and I can see where

1029
00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:58.199
<v Speaker 2>you're not being told things. I can see what you're

1030
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:00.719
<v Speaker 2>being lied to about, and let's discuss the lies.

1031
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Maybe yeah, I didn't know. I liked his final point,

1032
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:08.119
<v Speaker 1>like like, ask them, are you allowed to question like

1033
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:11.440
<v Speaker 1>these tenets? And if not, why not? That's an interesting,

1034
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:12.760
<v Speaker 1>interesting line of thought.

1035
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.480
<v Speaker 2>I did get the sense that this didn't fully sit

1036
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:17.159
<v Speaker 2>right with you initially. Is that?

1037
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:18.239
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1038
00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:21.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean, thinking back on some of the calls I've

1039
00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:23.599
<v Speaker 1>taken on the show and the conversations I've had with people,

1040
00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:29.920
<v Speaker 1>there are certain theists and certain theistic mindsets that are

1041
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:38.079
<v Speaker 1>completely inassailable from that kind of by having questioned their epistemology,

1042
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:40.360
<v Speaker 1>that like, why do you believe what you believe? Like

1043
00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:45.079
<v Speaker 1>any presupposition list, and it will just flat out go no,

1044
00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:48.320
<v Speaker 1>like God exists and must exist. I presuppose that God exists,

1045
00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:51.559
<v Speaker 1>therefore he does and and that's one of the reasons

1046
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:55.320
<v Speaker 1>why that they're one of my least favorite conversations to

1047
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:58.280
<v Speaker 1>have in terms of I get easily frustrated with it

1048
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:03.519
<v Speaker 1>because it just feels that it feels very you're not

1049
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:06.920
<v Speaker 1>even going to countenance like you're going to just assume

1050
00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:09.599
<v Speaker 1>you're right, you declare you're right, therefore you're right kind

1051
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:13.960
<v Speaker 1>of thing. So I think there are certain theistic mindsets

1052
00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:19.440
<v Speaker 1>and dogmas that that technique that Bruce was espousing would

1053
00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:20.960
<v Speaker 1>just bounce straight off.

1054
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:24.599
<v Speaker 2>I could definitely see that as well. Got to say,

1055
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:29.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it's like any conversion, a deconversion is going

1056
00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:32.400
<v Speaker 2>to take different things and different kinds of arguments. I

1057
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:34.559
<v Speaker 2>think that's some of the strength of this show actually,

1058
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:37.159
<v Speaker 2>is that there's people who make arguments that are so

1059
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:40.920
<v Speaker 2>different from anyone I would ever make that it speaks

1060
00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:44.519
<v Speaker 2>to a lot of different kinds of people. I guess, yeah,

1061
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:47.159
<v Speaker 2>real quick, super chat before we go to Patreon's, we

1062
00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:50.719
<v Speaker 2>have a super chat from Sydney Plaza, which sounds like

1063
00:58:50.719 --> 00:58:55.480
<v Speaker 2>a place. I love it. Five euros who also fancy youroes.

1064
00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:58.360
<v Speaker 2>I guess I'm not a rocket scientist or a doctor,

1065
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:00.599
<v Speaker 2>but as you can attest, I'm a pretty good healer

1066
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:01.760
<v Speaker 2>smiley face.

1067
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:06.119
<v Speaker 1>Because Cindy is our healer in our in our D

1068
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:10.679
<v Speaker 1>and D game has literally saved my bacon on a

1069
00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:14.199
<v Speaker 1>couple of a couple of occasions. Because I'm the main DPS.

1070
00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:16.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm a monk. So I'm in there mixing it up

1071
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:22.760
<v Speaker 1>and she's back there going heal and heal again. Will

1072
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:28.840
<v Speaker 1>you stop getting he again? I've already died once I

1073
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:30.519
<v Speaker 1>got better.

1074
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's great. I was hoping. I was reading it

1075
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:39.639
<v Speaker 2>being like, I'm guessing Jamie will know what this means,

1076
00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:41.280
<v Speaker 2>because I'm like I don't. I don't know.

1077
00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:43.960
<v Speaker 1>But that's great D and D cruise in the audience.

1078
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.159
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, prop swallow, I love it.

1079
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:48.159
<v Speaker 2>If you're a D and D person and have not

1080
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:50.519
<v Speaker 2>yet done Stormlight Archive, which is coming out with the

1081
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:55.239
<v Speaker 2>tabletop RPG next year, I would I would personally recommend

1082
00:59:55.239 --> 00:59:59.840
<v Speaker 2>that I'm obsessed. It's another epic fantasy story and then anyway,

1083
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:01.719
<v Speaker 2>I love it. So I just am going to say

1084
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:04.599
<v Speaker 2>drop this with Dandie folks, new tabletop board game, dropping

1085
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:08.880
<v Speaker 2>that I am insanely excited about as a similar mechanism anyway.

1086
01:00:08.920 --> 01:00:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Patreons Top five patreons here we have number one Oops

1087
01:00:14.199 --> 01:00:19.800
<v Speaker 2>All Singularity, two Dingleberry Jackson, three Coleevi Helvetti, which I

1088
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:21.719
<v Speaker 2>can only say if I try not to think about it,

1089
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:26.599
<v Speaker 2>Number four left in the leaves, Number five Neil the

1090
01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:29.920
<v Speaker 2>six oh four Atheist, and then an honorable mention to

1091
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Carol Lynn, the only reasonable name on this list. Thank

1092
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:38.039
<v Speaker 2>you for everyone who gives to us on Patreon. If

1093
01:00:38.039 --> 01:00:39.679
<v Speaker 2>you want to have your name right on the air,

1094
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:43.559
<v Speaker 2>then please consider supporting us at tiny dot cc slash patreon.

1095
01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Th that's tiny dot cc slash patreon th for talk

1096
01:00:47.239 --> 01:00:51.639
<v Speaker 2>even Yeah. On that note, we have started recording the

1097
01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:56.159
<v Speaker 2>Talk Heathen discord after show for all levels of paid patrons,

1098
01:00:56.239 --> 01:00:58.800
<v Speaker 2>So if you are you know, even a low levels here,

1099
01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:02.199
<v Speaker 2>you get this too. If you want more content and

1100
01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:04.440
<v Speaker 2>a more informal look at the host, then join our

1101
01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Patreon where yeah, you get to hear us chat about

1102
01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:09.440
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of things like I feel like it is

1103
01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:11.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of interesting how far afield it gets. It's not

1104
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:13.599
<v Speaker 2>necessarily atheism.

1105
01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:17.679
<v Speaker 1>And while and while it's not, it's corrolatory rather than causative.

1106
01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:22.960
<v Speaker 1>There is a big overlap in atheist and nerd. We're

1107
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:25.920
<v Speaker 1>all different stripes and nerds in the in the discord. So,

1108
01:01:26.280 --> 01:01:27.880
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to be having an after show after

1109
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:30.559
<v Speaker 1>this one. I'll be there, I believe are our producer

1110
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:32.639
<v Speaker 1>and backup host Richard will be there as well, and

1111
01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:35.039
<v Speaker 1>we will be talking all kinds of complete bollocks. It'd

1112
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:35.519
<v Speaker 1>be great.

1113
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Again. Even the swear words fancy from British people. Yeah.

1114
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.480
<v Speaker 2>So there's also one more super chat that just came in.

1115
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:50.000
<v Speaker 2>It's I think I'm going to say this, David Haxell hasor. Yeah,

1116
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:52.360
<v Speaker 2>there's some fours. So David Hacksor who's been a member

1117
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:56.119
<v Speaker 2>for two months, who gives five Canadian dollars, even though

1118
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:58.239
<v Speaker 2>my brain wants to say it's five Californian dollars, but

1119
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:01.159
<v Speaker 2>that's not the thing. When well, the Olympics except D

1120
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:03.519
<v Speaker 2>and D as an official event, maybe I'd watch them.

1121
01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I love the idea of this. I am curious as

1122
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:08.039
<v Speaker 2>to the logistics.

1123
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the only competitive thing I've seen in D and

1124
01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:15.159
<v Speaker 1>D is like who can get the GM to break first?

1125
01:02:18.199 --> 01:02:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think that's fair. That is total love and.

1126
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:25.239
<v Speaker 1>That's a seven point six from the British Churche. It

1127
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:27.880
<v Speaker 1>seems that the DM has broken down in tears as

1128
01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:30.480
<v Speaker 1>they have wandered off the meticulously made story that you

1129
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:33.119
<v Speaker 1>made for them and have started doing fart jokes.

1130
01:02:34.599 --> 01:02:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Hey, any good DM is going to know that there's

1131
01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:38.760
<v Speaker 2>probably going to be some far jokes at some point

1132
01:02:38.800 --> 01:02:42.239
<v Speaker 2>like this. You know. Maybe maybe that's just the groups

1133
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:45.039
<v Speaker 2>I play with, but yeah, I love it. I feel

1134
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:46.960
<v Speaker 2>like it would be a really good cultural study, Like

1135
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:49.639
<v Speaker 2>how would different you know, nations play with. They have

1136
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:53.239
<v Speaker 2>different strategies, different little cultures within that they tend toward.

1137
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:57.000
<v Speaker 1>And interestingly enough, because I mean this is not a

1138
01:02:57.079 --> 01:02:58.760
<v Speaker 1>D and D podcast by any times, we are still

1139
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:03.559
<v Speaker 1>talking about religion. But religion is basically science in these stories,

1140
01:03:03.559 --> 01:03:06.119
<v Speaker 1>in these fantasies, because gods are real, you can talk

1141
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:10.800
<v Speaker 1>to them and you can reliably invoke their power. It's

1142
01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:15.599
<v Speaker 1>not faith like faith is what's like you're a cleric,

1143
01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:18.360
<v Speaker 1>you're a priest, whatever, and you believe in a god

1144
01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:21.159
<v Speaker 1>and you can have divine inspiration. But it works in

1145
01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:23.519
<v Speaker 1>the same way as like just putting up a lightning

1146
01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:26.360
<v Speaker 1>rod or turning on a car engine. You say these

1147
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:30.000
<v Speaker 1>words and then magic occurs and it's like and it

1148
01:03:30.039 --> 01:03:34.239
<v Speaker 1>does it every single time, demonstrably, there's no mystery to it.

1149
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:38.840
<v Speaker 1>It's fascinating that religion in the fancy world is nothing

1150
01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:40.639
<v Speaker 1>like religion in the real world.

1151
01:03:41.719 --> 01:03:43.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh my gosh. There's so many things from a

1152
01:03:43.599 --> 01:03:45.559
<v Speaker 2>Sermlie archive I could talk about here, but I won't

1153
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:48.599
<v Speaker 2>because yeah, I guess I just jaming in particularly, I

1154
01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:49.920
<v Speaker 2>think you should read it so I can talk to

1155
01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:52.079
<v Speaker 2>you about it, because I need it so much. One

1156
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:53.880
<v Speaker 2>more D and D comment and then we will take

1157
01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:57.199
<v Speaker 2>another call because we have another super chat and it's

1158
01:03:57.239 --> 01:03:59.960
<v Speaker 2>specifically in regards to D and d's from Miranda Rensburger,

1159
01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.719
<v Speaker 2>who's been a member for six months. We love Breanda Rensberger,

1160
01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:05.519
<v Speaker 2>who sent five dollars. So Jamie is the D and

1161
01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:07.840
<v Speaker 2>D version of what we in the medical world call

1162
01:04:07.880 --> 01:04:10.079
<v Speaker 2>a frequent flyer, one who keeps showing up in the

1163
01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:12.400
<v Speaker 2>er over and over for random shit.

1164
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh it's yeah, well, it's it's the it's the life

1165
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:20.960
<v Speaker 1>of the it's the life of the frontline fighter. You're

1166
01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:24.719
<v Speaker 1>going to get mauled quite often. And yes, it's so

1167
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:27.039
<v Speaker 1>nice to have our cy India there in the back

1168
01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:30.559
<v Speaker 1>making sure I don't shuffle off the mortal coil again.

1169
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.239
<v Speaker 2>I love that I am going to recap the D

1170
01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:37.159
<v Speaker 2>and D for for a moment so we can go

1171
01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:39.039
<v Speaker 2>on to a caller. But I kind of love that

1172
01:04:39.079 --> 01:04:40.960
<v Speaker 2>this has become a theme of today. There's demons and

1173
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:43.440
<v Speaker 2>D and D. That's what we have. That's what today's

1174
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:46.519
<v Speaker 2>show has kind of been about. All right, So we

1175
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:49.960
<v Speaker 2>have a caller who is a theist whose name is Dave.

1176
01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:53.079
<v Speaker 2>He him from India, and Dave is going to talk

1177
01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:58.039
<v Speaker 2>to us about how medical metaphysical reality points toward a God.

1178
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:03.039
<v Speaker 2>All right, Dave, tell us about your thoughts on metaphysical

1179
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:07.679
<v Speaker 2>reality and God. Hey, my kid, hi, I think I

1180
01:05:07.719 --> 01:05:09.280
<v Speaker 2>could hear my own voice in the background. So if

1181
01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:11.360
<v Speaker 2>you have anything like the show playing in the background,

1182
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:13.559
<v Speaker 2>if you could mute it, that would be awesome. But

1183
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:15.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't have anything.

1184
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:19.079
<v Speaker 5>I have nothing in the background, So.

1185
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:21.039
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead and tell us, tell us what's going on.

1186
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:24.199
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I just wanted to say that there are certain

1187
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:29.440
<v Speaker 5>books for actual projections after without travels, and there are

1188
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:31.360
<v Speaker 5>a lot of people who who claim to have that

1189
01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:34.320
<v Speaker 5>achieve that kind of experience. But I just wanted to

1190
01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:37.960
<v Speaker 5>say that that experience might point towards the God.

1191
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, the word claim is big, bold, fiery letters in

1192
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:44.320
<v Speaker 1>that sentence. They claim to have done it. Can they

1193
01:05:44.360 --> 01:05:46.440
<v Speaker 1>actually demonstrate it under controlled conditions?

1194
01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:51.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Responsible, the experience can be I'm sorry, I just

1195
01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:53.639
<v Speaker 2>didn't know. If you're you keep going.

1196
01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:58.920
<v Speaker 5>So you can quantify the experience. You can measure the

1197
01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:01.760
<v Speaker 5>blood pressure level, you can make it the heartbeat, you

1198
01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:06.360
<v Speaker 5>can make it different kinds of things to quantify the experience.

1199
01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:10.159
<v Speaker 5>And once everyone is in the same state, they will

1200
01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:11.920
<v Speaker 5>have the same experience, and then we can get the

1201
01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:13.000
<v Speaker 5>message to the same way.

1202
01:06:13.239 --> 01:06:18.000
<v Speaker 1>So but I think, yeah, so, I mean, yes, we

1203
01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:21.800
<v Speaker 1>can see that they're having an experience. I mean I

1204
01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:25.440
<v Speaker 1>have an experience when I try and walk upstairs too quick.

1205
01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:30.960
<v Speaker 1>But it's it's the astral projection part that I'm talking about,

1206
01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:32.639
<v Speaker 1>Like we can Yes, you can hook them up to

1207
01:06:32.679 --> 01:06:36.320
<v Speaker 1>an EEG and see the brainwave patterns things. But it's

1208
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:40.039
<v Speaker 1>the same in secular meditation. You can achieve certain brain

1209
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:44.239
<v Speaker 1>states and body states through breathing control and mindfulness. There's

1210
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:46.960
<v Speaker 1>nothing mystic or supernatural about it. You've got to prove

1211
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:50.639
<v Speaker 1>the supernatural. You to demonstrate the supernatural aspect. Can you

1212
01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:51.840
<v Speaker 1>do that? Yeah?

1213
01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:54.920
<v Speaker 5>So, I would say too. Part to it. The first

1214
01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:58.719
<v Speaker 5>part is that when we go to like this flat

1215
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:02.360
<v Speaker 5>and you you go to some kind of bride, the

1216
01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:04.960
<v Speaker 5>expem to get when you're coming down or going up

1217
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:07.880
<v Speaker 5>all of a sudden, the feeling that they get that

1218
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:10.559
<v Speaker 5>is very similar to the experience that I'm talking about.

1219
01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:13.039
<v Speaker 5>So in that sense, it's fortifiable.

1220
01:07:14.719 --> 01:07:18.679
<v Speaker 2>There are still other ways to achieve it. I understand

1221
01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:20.519
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying. I think there's just so many other

1222
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:25.360
<v Speaker 2>ways to achieve that that aren't actual astral projection. Our

1223
01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:29.480
<v Speaker 2>brains can do a whole lot, Like what do we

1224
01:07:29.559 --> 01:07:32.000
<v Speaker 2>If we hear something or someone talk about something, we

1225
01:07:32.039 --> 01:07:35.599
<v Speaker 2>can become emotional, right, and it will actually change our

1226
01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:39.679
<v Speaker 2>physical state just from hearing somebody talk about something passionately.

1227
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:44.679
<v Speaker 2>If you're sitting and listening to music and that music

1228
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:47.400
<v Speaker 2>is emotional, it might even give you goosebumps if somebody

1229
01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:50.719
<v Speaker 2>hits a particular note and it's changing your physical state,

1230
01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:53.960
<v Speaker 2>and that can be in a really dramatic way. So

1231
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:55.719
<v Speaker 2>I look at it and I'm like, all right, people

1232
01:07:55.719 --> 01:07:58.519
<v Speaker 2>are claiming they astral projected. We have a lot of

1233
01:07:58.679 --> 01:08:02.719
<v Speaker 2>evidence that folks can have experiences that seem like or

1234
01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:06.559
<v Speaker 2>feel like they're actual projecting when they aren't doing anything

1235
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:10.079
<v Speaker 2>that is inexplicable, they are putting themselves in a maybe

1236
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:14.880
<v Speaker 2>trans like state on purpose or through meditation in some way.

1237
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Why would it be more likely that that would be

1238
01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:23.039
<v Speaker 2>proof of a god or even a metaphysical realm, then

1239
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:26.199
<v Speaker 2>that they're doing these things that we know are physically possible.

1240
01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:29.079
<v Speaker 5>Okay, we gotta we gotta hold on, hold on, that's

1241
01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:34.640
<v Speaker 5>too much in all one time. I'm not a debate

1242
01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:38.720
<v Speaker 5>or something like that. So yeah, I just want to say.

1243
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:43.199
<v Speaker 5>The first thing, which uh, which I think, uh, they said,

1244
01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:46.439
<v Speaker 5>is that the supernatural part, I agree, there is nothing

1245
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:49.439
<v Speaker 5>supernatural to it. And the second part with you are

1246
01:08:49.439 --> 01:08:52.239
<v Speaker 5>thinking is that they can feed the Google bump with

1247
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:55.520
<v Speaker 5>the new big and then you can people claim that

1248
01:08:55.640 --> 01:08:59.399
<v Speaker 5>they have a supernatural but meditative state. So I do

1249
01:08:59.439 --> 01:09:02.560
<v Speaker 5>agree to and that's where I'm stuck up to. That

1250
01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:03.560
<v Speaker 5>is exactly what.

1251
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:04.119
<v Speaker 1>I realized to.

1252
01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:08.000
<v Speaker 5>But the thing is, there are so many people in

1253
01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:11.119
<v Speaker 5>my country who claim to have gone all the day,

1254
01:09:11.319 --> 01:09:13.880
<v Speaker 5>so they know that the path is much longer than

1255
01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:16.960
<v Speaker 5>what I have already covered. So what it will be

1256
01:09:17.079 --> 01:09:20.159
<v Speaker 5>talking about is like base things, and there are much

1257
01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:22.479
<v Speaker 5>advanced things which can be a tie if you keep

1258
01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:25.600
<v Speaker 5>that the thing for the long wither with two diligions

1259
01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:27.279
<v Speaker 5>and the tenant information.

1260
01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:30.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, a lot of people in my country claim

1261
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:33.840
<v Speaker 2>that they speak in tongues and really honestly believe it

1262
01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:37.920
<v Speaker 2>and have entire complex, you know, feelings about things that

1263
01:09:37.960 --> 01:09:41.119
<v Speaker 2>they've encountered or communicated when they do. So, we're sort

1264
01:09:41.119 --> 01:09:43.199
<v Speaker 2>of just saying a lot of people said so, so

1265
01:09:43.560 --> 01:09:46.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's true, And that doesn't seem like a very

1266
01:09:46.039 --> 01:09:47.199
<v Speaker 2>strong argument to me.

1267
01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:50.760
<v Speaker 1>It is in fact a fallacy the appeal to appeal

1268
01:09:50.840 --> 01:09:53.560
<v Speaker 1>to you majority, or whatever the name of it is.

1269
01:09:54.199 --> 01:09:57.720
<v Speaker 1>But here let's take a difference act in tybe. Let's say,

1270
01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.159
<v Speaker 1>for the psych of argument, that you can prove move

1271
01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:04.079
<v Speaker 1>that astral projection actually is a real phenomena, that a

1272
01:10:04.119 --> 01:10:09.279
<v Speaker 1>person can leave their physical body and have experiences outside

1273
01:10:09.319 --> 01:10:13.399
<v Speaker 1>it in some kind of incorporeal form, be it distance

1274
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:17.359
<v Speaker 1>viewing or hearing conversations far away, or even communicating with

1275
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:22.239
<v Speaker 1>other people telepathically. I still don't see how that proves

1276
01:10:22.279 --> 01:10:25.840
<v Speaker 1>anything other than that astral projection is a phenomena in

1277
01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:29.239
<v Speaker 1>the world and therefore likely has a natural explanation and

1278
01:10:29.279 --> 01:10:31.840
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really get you any further to God, because there's

1279
01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:34.159
<v Speaker 1>plenty of things that have been ascribed to God that

1280
01:10:34.199 --> 01:10:37.079
<v Speaker 1>we have found to be natural, Like back in the day,

1281
01:10:37.439 --> 01:10:39.760
<v Speaker 1>lightning came from the gods. But I can set up

1282
01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:42.319
<v Speaker 1>a Vandergraft generator and make lightning in my own home

1283
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:44.800
<v Speaker 1>if I was bonkers enough. So what do you say

1284
01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:48.079
<v Speaker 1>to that? How does astral projection, even if it was real,

1285
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:48.960
<v Speaker 1>prove a God.

1286
01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:53.319
<v Speaker 5>So the degrees of freedom are just increasing. Day by day,

1287
01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:56.439
<v Speaker 5>we are getting more and more degrees of freedom. You

1288
01:10:56.479 --> 01:10:59.359
<v Speaker 5>are much older, older than me, You're much wiser than me.

1289
01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:02.520
<v Speaker 5>You have lived in a much advanced country than me,

1290
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:06.680
<v Speaker 5>you have much better information than me. So that's what

1291
01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:09.359
<v Speaker 5>I'm saying, that the degrees of freedom are just increasing.

1292
01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:12.720
<v Speaker 5>So if they keep increasing in the same way, ultimately

1293
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:15.640
<v Speaker 5>we'll read the point, well, everything will the domatic.

1294
01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:19.479
<v Speaker 2>So it seems like the argument here is that because

1295
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:24.680
<v Speaker 2>culture changes and we learn new things, maybe about science

1296
01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:28.880
<v Speaker 2>or technology or the world around us scientifically, that maybe

1297
01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:33.039
<v Speaker 2>that happens spiritually as well. Is that kind of what

1298
01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:33.680
<v Speaker 2>we're going with?

1299
01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:38.800
<v Speaker 5>I was, yeah, the culture will change, Yeah, okay, yeah,

1300
01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:39.479
<v Speaker 5>I would say that.

1301
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:42.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that that's a parallel that I can

1302
01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:45.800
<v Speaker 2>quite get on board with here because we can also

1303
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:49.800
<v Speaker 2>say that. I don't know, I'm trying to think of

1304
01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:51.680
<v Speaker 2>a of a good analogy because that was a little

1305
01:11:51.760 --> 01:11:53.000
<v Speaker 2>little out of left field feeling.

1306
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:55.399
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, yeah, you're still going for gold in

1307
01:11:55.399 --> 01:11:58.039
<v Speaker 1>those non secutary Olympics there, Dave. I mean, you just

1308
01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:01.840
<v Speaker 1>speed off into talking about we becoming more free. I

1309
01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:04.119
<v Speaker 1>don't exactly know what you meant by that, even after

1310
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:08.079
<v Speaker 1>you tried to explain it. My question actually was if

1311
01:12:08.199 --> 01:12:11.279
<v Speaker 1>astral projection is real, how does it prove a god?

1312
01:12:11.560 --> 01:12:14.920
<v Speaker 1>And you said we are becoming more free? That makes

1313
01:12:15.359 --> 01:12:19.359
<v Speaker 1>zero sense. So do you actually have any kind of

1314
01:12:19.399 --> 01:12:22.399
<v Speaker 1>explanation as to how, even if it was real, astral

1315
01:12:22.399 --> 01:12:23.960
<v Speaker 1>projection would indicate a god.

1316
01:12:24.680 --> 01:12:28.039
<v Speaker 5>So the thing is, look at the history that we

1317
01:12:28.159 --> 01:12:31.880
<v Speaker 5>have had at ads, with blood being shed, all of thought,

1318
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:35.760
<v Speaker 5>and even today if you go to the forest the Jungles,

1319
01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:39.239
<v Speaker 5>you will see exactly that kind of animosity.

1320
01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:42.479
<v Speaker 1>And that kind of stop stop stop stop stop stop stop.

1321
01:12:43.319 --> 01:12:46.279
<v Speaker 1>You've just completely failed to answer my question twice, and

1322
01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:48.760
<v Speaker 1>you've gone on an on secutur twice. I'm going to

1323
01:12:48.840 --> 01:12:51.239
<v Speaker 1>do it one more time and then I'm going to

1324
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:53.159
<v Speaker 1>give up, and then Sofia, you can do whatever you like.

1325
01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:59.199
<v Speaker 1>If astral projection was real, tell me how how that

1326
01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:04.760
<v Speaker 1>would indicate that God is real as you claim.

1327
01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:07.000
<v Speaker 5>Because if you go back to a certain a few years,

1328
01:13:07.039 --> 01:13:10.199
<v Speaker 5>they were completely denying these experiences blatantly.

1329
01:13:11.079 --> 01:13:14.680
<v Speaker 1>And now I'm already giving you that astral projection is real.

1330
01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Dave really starting to get me on my edge now,

1331
01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:21.920
<v Speaker 1>So I'm gonna calm down. Yeah, Sophie, So.

1332
01:13:21.920 --> 01:13:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Hey, Dave, I'm dropping you, but I'm gonna kind of

1333
01:13:25.720 --> 01:13:29.760
<v Speaker 2>finish this real quick address. I think I see a

1334
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>bit of what you're trying to go toward, which is

1335
01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:37.319
<v Speaker 2>that maybe we can sort of evolve as spiritual beings.

1336
01:13:37.319 --> 01:13:41.640
<v Speaker 2>So astral projection would eventually lead to a God. That

1337
01:13:41.960 --> 01:13:45.319
<v Speaker 2>sounds like a fantasy story to me. I also want

1338
01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:49.000
<v Speaker 2>to point out that when we talk about culture advancing

1339
01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:52.000
<v Speaker 2>or things like that, we're starting to hedge. We're like

1340
01:13:52.399 --> 01:13:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a sneeze away from eugenics basically, where we're almost saying

1341
01:13:57.039 --> 01:13:59.600
<v Speaker 2>things like, well, this, this culture is superior or better,

1342
01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:02.760
<v Speaker 2>and they're times in history we knew less about science

1343
01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:06.319
<v Speaker 2>that we knew you know less about how to you know,

1344
01:14:06.359 --> 01:14:09.199
<v Speaker 2>make sure people don't die of bacterial infection, and those

1345
01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:12.680
<v Speaker 2>those are good things. But I think to say that

1346
01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:16.920
<v Speaker 2>a culture is inherently better or more advanced in some

1347
01:14:17.600 --> 01:14:21.439
<v Speaker 2>sort of human way, are we more compassionate or more empathetic?

1348
01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:25.359
<v Speaker 2>I would actually argue that's possibly the opposite. So I

1349
01:14:25.359 --> 01:14:28.680
<v Speaker 2>think I am going to challenge that idea of cultures

1350
01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:30.800
<v Speaker 2>being able to be put on some ranking scale in

1351
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:33.840
<v Speaker 2>the same way that scientific discoveries can be built upon.

1352
01:14:34.239 --> 01:14:37.319
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't really work that way. Culture changes but not

1353
01:14:37.520 --> 01:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>always for the better. And that's kind of a strange

1354
01:14:39.800 --> 01:14:42.119
<v Speaker 2>assumption to be making, I think, or one that can

1355
01:14:42.159 --> 01:14:45.479
<v Speaker 2>be lead very quickly into saying that a people is

1356
01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.439
<v Speaker 2>superior to another people, and I don't think that's true,

1357
01:14:48.439 --> 01:14:52.520
<v Speaker 2>and I want to kind of reject that pretty outright. Yeah, Jamie,

1358
01:14:52.720 --> 01:14:53.239
<v Speaker 2>how you doing?

1359
01:14:53.479 --> 01:14:58.119
<v Speaker 1>Apologies for losing my shit. They're very unbecoming. But it's

1360
01:14:58.159 --> 01:15:02.239
<v Speaker 1>incredibly frustrating where I'm like, I'm going to grant you

1361
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:04.399
<v Speaker 1>the thing. I'm going to grant give you all the toys,

1362
01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:08.079
<v Speaker 1>astral projections. Real, fine, fuck it great? How does that

1363
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>lead us to God? And three times he just completely

1364
01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:14.119
<v Speaker 1>doesn't just goes off on a tangent, and he's done

1365
01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:15.960
<v Speaker 1>it in previous calls. He's called in before, and it's

1366
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:18.840
<v Speaker 1>always the same. You're asking a direct question and he

1367
01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:21.960
<v Speaker 1>just goes off on some baffling tangent and I'm like,

1368
01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:27.560
<v Speaker 1>can you just answer my damn question? So frustrating me.

1369
01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I definitely definitely get that, and like,

1370
01:15:31.039 --> 01:15:34.279
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you apologize for having emotions too too much,

1371
01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:36.439
<v Speaker 2>because I'm like, eh, you know, it's an emotional, it's

1372
01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:37.399
<v Speaker 2>an interesting thing.

1373
01:15:37.880 --> 01:15:40.239
<v Speaker 1>It's supposed to be the chill one. I feel like

1374
01:15:40.279 --> 01:15:42.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm derelict in duty.

1375
01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Because I'm usually very British, very chill for being British.

1376
01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:48.359
<v Speaker 2>I do the same thing to my Australian husband for

1377
01:15:48.439 --> 01:15:51.399
<v Speaker 2>being Australian, which I would argue there's a continue of

1378
01:15:51.399 --> 01:15:54.479
<v Speaker 2>British to American and Australians are closer to the British then.

1379
01:15:54.560 --> 01:15:58.640
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, I encourage people to comment about that because

1380
01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:00.680
<v Speaker 2>I feel like sometimes I say that people find it

1381
01:16:00.840 --> 01:16:06.880
<v Speaker 2>very upsetting chicile Australians for some reason. But anyway, we

1382
01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:10.520
<v Speaker 2>have one more super chat and then we're actually gonna

1383
01:16:10.560 --> 01:16:13.279
<v Speaker 2>just go ahead and wrap up for today. So we

1384
01:16:13.399 --> 01:16:18.199
<v Speaker 2>have a super chat again from David hex Or I

1385
01:16:18.199 --> 01:16:21.279
<v Speaker 2>say that right, who's been a member for two months

1386
01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:24.239
<v Speaker 2>who sent in five Canadian dollars saying, what's the difference

1387
01:16:24.279 --> 01:16:26.600
<v Speaker 2>between astral projection and zoom?

1388
01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I know, we are instantly communicating using nothing but the

1389
01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:37.560
<v Speaker 1>movement of electrons over massive distances. Right now, we are

1390
01:16:37.560 --> 01:16:39.159
<v Speaker 1>doing the magic as we speak.

1391
01:16:39.840 --> 01:16:42.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like it's interesting when I think about

1392
01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:44.279
<v Speaker 2>the fact that the argument we make against I was

1393
01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:46.199
<v Speaker 2>a Harry Potter kid, right, I grew up in that era.

1394
01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:50.479
<v Speaker 2>I disagree vehemently with many of the creator's views. However,

1395
01:16:51.239 --> 01:16:54.119
<v Speaker 2>when I think about Hogwarts and so much that you

1396
01:16:54.159 --> 01:16:56.079
<v Speaker 2>were able to do in the magical world, we can

1397
01:16:56.159 --> 01:16:59.000
<v Speaker 2>just do that now. It's not really that special. To

1398
01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:01.720
<v Speaker 2>do it with magic is to do it with science.

1399
01:17:02.239 --> 01:17:04.479
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like religion is kind of going the

1400
01:17:04.479 --> 01:17:06.640
<v Speaker 2>same way. A lot of the things people talk about.

1401
01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:10.199
<v Speaker 2>Even when there's like an amazing miracle healing, it's like, well,

1402
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:12.680
<v Speaker 2>the miracle of science has healed way more people than that,

1403
01:17:13.119 --> 01:17:17.119
<v Speaker 2>and it took you know, it's more consistent. It's not

1404
01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:20.199
<v Speaker 2>just hoping that this will work out. So we were

1405
01:17:20.239 --> 01:17:23.880
<v Speaker 2>replacing the need for religion, I would argue, yes.

1406
01:17:24.079 --> 01:17:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Let us assure you I am I am being projected

1407
01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:32.199
<v Speaker 1>into your countenances. Audience I'm not physically inside your television

1408
01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:37.880
<v Speaker 1>or room or phone.

1409
01:17:36.359 --> 01:17:39.479
<v Speaker 2>And I maybe I'm just being projected right into your hearts.

1410
01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:45.119
<v Speaker 2>So let's the prompt for this week again is complete

1411
01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:47.840
<v Speaker 2>the sentence it was a mistake when God blank. That's

1412
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:51.239
<v Speaker 2>our prompt for this week. Reply in the comments and

1413
01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:53.720
<v Speaker 2>tune in at the beginning of next week's episode to

1414
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:56.439
<v Speaker 2>hear the top three answers. And we want to thank

1415
01:17:56.640 --> 01:17:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Richard for helping out today. It's you gonna pop up,

1416
01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Richard and tell us your feelings. Okay, Jilliver or Gilliver?

1417
01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:09.760
<v Speaker 2>What kind of g It's a soft soft ge Okay,

1418
01:18:10.079 --> 01:18:11.279
<v Speaker 2>like Guppie.

1419
01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:17.119
<v Speaker 6>Liver, like like anything that's the soft gee, like.

1420
01:18:18.640 --> 01:18:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Giff not gift.

1421
01:18:25.159 --> 01:18:27.399
<v Speaker 2>I hope we get comments about that gift comment. You

1422
01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:31.800
<v Speaker 2>gotta say. Okay, thank you.

1423
01:18:30.960 --> 01:18:35.159
<v Speaker 6>You are mother than welcome. Great show, guys. We've had

1424
01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:39.199
<v Speaker 6>some good calls D as everyone knows from the other

1425
01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:41.359
<v Speaker 6>week when she made me cry. I love D.

1426
01:18:42.840 --> 01:18:44.479
<v Speaker 1>You know, a great call.

1427
01:18:44.680 --> 01:18:47.399
<v Speaker 6>I've you know, seen things in the dark. I used

1428
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:51.279
<v Speaker 6>to be the kind of residents skeptic on the ghost

1429
01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:55.880
<v Speaker 6>hunting team, so I've been in this situation where you know,

1430
01:18:56.239 --> 01:19:00.479
<v Speaker 6>things that are strange happen in that situation, But we

1431
01:19:00.600 --> 01:19:03.760
<v Speaker 6>must understand the context of that and the way the

1432
01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:08.239
<v Speaker 6>brain works. Sophia will know is that there are two

1433
01:19:08.399 --> 01:19:12.399
<v Speaker 6>parts to how we assess information. We have memory, those

1434
01:19:12.439 --> 01:19:15.119
<v Speaker 6>things that have built up, those things that we assess

1435
01:19:15.199 --> 01:19:19.319
<v Speaker 6>the world over time that we've learnt, and then we

1436
01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:22.640
<v Speaker 6>have the information which comes straight into our head via

1437
01:19:22.760 --> 01:19:26.399
<v Speaker 6>our sense organs. Now, when we are doing things like

1438
01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:30.479
<v Speaker 6>ghost hunts, or we're asleep at night, or we're in

1439
01:19:30.520 --> 01:19:35.079
<v Speaker 6>strange locations, what happens when we wake up and something

1440
01:19:35.560 --> 01:19:40.600
<v Speaker 6>kind of unusual happens is that those we're trying to

1441
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:43.560
<v Speaker 6>cross reference those things all the time. We're trying to

1442
01:19:44.239 --> 01:19:47.840
<v Speaker 6>cross reference those things we know from experience and those

1443
01:19:47.880 --> 01:19:50.640
<v Speaker 6>things which are coming into our sense organs. So what

1444
01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:53.039
<v Speaker 6>happens in a lot of cases, and we see this

1445
01:19:53.279 --> 01:19:57.119
<v Speaker 6>a lot in things like people go ghost hunting, people

1446
01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:01.199
<v Speaker 6>who are in strange locations, is our brain makes up

1447
01:20:01.199 --> 01:20:04.880
<v Speaker 6>a narrative based on what's happening. So we can if

1448
01:20:05.439 --> 01:20:09.079
<v Speaker 6>we are predisposed to believing in ghosts, if we are

1449
01:20:09.279 --> 01:20:14.760
<v Speaker 6>predisposed to believing in supernatural or non normative events, then

1450
01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:18.039
<v Speaker 6>our brain is going to put that information that's coming

1451
01:20:18.079 --> 01:20:21.239
<v Speaker 6>to that little bit of information that's coming in with

1452
01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:25.840
<v Speaker 6>that predisposition and create a narrative for it. And that

1453
01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:31.079
<v Speaker 6>is why we have these experiences of ghosts. Bruce, It's

1454
01:20:31.159 --> 01:20:35.399
<v Speaker 6>a lot more complex than that. That's a very simplified version, Bruce.

1455
01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:39.800
<v Speaker 6>I absolutely agree with him, a great call. You know, people,

1456
01:20:40.680 --> 01:20:44.279
<v Speaker 6>one of my pet hates is atheists who just dive

1457
01:20:44.359 --> 01:20:47.359
<v Speaker 6>into theists. I released a bunch of videos on my

1458
01:20:47.399 --> 01:20:50.000
<v Speaker 6>own channel recently and I only put the title in

1459
01:20:50.279 --> 01:20:54.279
<v Speaker 6>which and it was quite misleading, and it did look

1460
01:20:54.439 --> 01:20:57.359
<v Speaker 6>like if you didn't know, I might have been a theist,

1461
01:20:57.680 --> 01:20:59.840
<v Speaker 6>if you didn't see any of the if you didn't

1462
01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:02.720
<v Speaker 6>really the description or watch the sat or watch the video,

1463
01:21:03.239 --> 01:21:05.960
<v Speaker 6>it may have appeared like I was a theist. And

1464
01:21:06.119 --> 01:21:09.520
<v Speaker 6>so many people commented saying, you are wrong, take your

1465
01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:11.560
<v Speaker 6>God belief and stick it over your arse, and it

1466
01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:14.560
<v Speaker 6>was clear they'd not taken any context from it. It

1467
01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:17.319
<v Speaker 6>was clearly not watched the video, they not read the description.

1468
01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:20.920
<v Speaker 6>You know, atheists do better because you do come across

1469
01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:25.359
<v Speaker 6>as wanker evangelicals when you do that. And I'm not

1470
01:21:25.399 --> 01:21:30.239
<v Speaker 6>gonna lie. David Astro travel Projection. I don't you know,

1471
01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:32.600
<v Speaker 6>all I can say on this is I had lots

1472
01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:34.960
<v Speaker 6>of dreams when I was in my early teens about

1473
01:21:34.960 --> 01:21:39.039
<v Speaker 6>a girl who lived across the road, and in these dreams,

1474
01:21:39.079 --> 01:21:42.159
<v Speaker 6>I astro projected out of my body and visited her.

1475
01:21:42.479 --> 01:21:47.119
<v Speaker 6>Although these dreams were tremendous fun for a young teenage boy,

1476
01:21:47.560 --> 01:21:51.279
<v Speaker 6>they weren't real. You know, we have to demonstrate that

1477
01:21:51.359 --> 01:21:54.279
<v Speaker 6>these things are real. I've done, great show, guys. I'm

1478
01:21:54.319 --> 01:21:56.600
<v Speaker 6>going thank you very much for the show.

1479
01:21:57.239 --> 01:22:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much. I love all of the equips

1480
01:22:01.000 --> 01:22:04.399
<v Speaker 2>you give. And yeah, I immediately I'm like, let's talk

1481
01:22:04.399 --> 01:22:06.840
<v Speaker 2>about the nature of memory. But I can say that

1482
01:22:07.039 --> 01:22:11.399
<v Speaker 2>for another show. Honestly, this was great. I had a

1483
01:22:11.399 --> 01:22:14.800
<v Speaker 2>lovely time here with you, Jamie. I'm gonna remember love

1484
01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:20.560
<v Speaker 2>rings this time it's in giant font. It's also like highlighted.

1485
01:22:20.680 --> 01:22:23.319
<v Speaker 2>So yes, love rings, because always forget them. But we

1486
01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:25.960
<v Speaker 2>do really love the callers. We really love folks who

1487
01:22:26.000 --> 01:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>come in and uh, yeah, it's it's vulnerable to try

1488
01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:32.199
<v Speaker 2>to talk on the air. It's vulnerable to talk with

1489
01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:34.439
<v Speaker 2>people you have never met before you might disagree with

1490
01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:38.920
<v Speaker 2>and we appreciate that people are willing to do that. Yeah,

1491
01:22:39.039 --> 01:22:43.760
<v Speaker 2>So you can come see us at tiny dot cec

1492
01:22:43.960 --> 01:22:47.600
<v Speaker 2>slash a C A discord, which is where we do

1493
01:22:47.680 --> 01:22:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the after show. That's tiny dot CC slash a C

1494
01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:55.520
<v Speaker 2>A discord. If you don't believe this is your community,

1495
01:22:55.840 --> 01:22:58.279
<v Speaker 2>or sorry, yes, if you don't believe, I see I'm

1496
01:22:58.319 --> 01:23:02.920
<v Speaker 2>so bad I read. Yes, it's remarkable. I was an

1497
01:23:02.960 --> 01:23:05.479
<v Speaker 2>English teacher at one point. Can you believe it? I

1498
01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:07.319
<v Speaker 2>don't even know what a soft she is. If you

1499
01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:10.039
<v Speaker 2>don't believe, this is your community, and we appreciate you

1500
01:23:10.079 --> 01:23:13.079
<v Speaker 2>being here. If you do believe, we don't hate you,

1501
01:23:13.560 --> 01:23:14.319
<v Speaker 2>just not convinced.

1502
01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:37.680
<v Speaker 6>We want the truth. So watch Truth Wanted live Friday

1503
01:23:37.720 --> 01:23:41.760
<v Speaker 6>at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y

1504
01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:44.960
<v Speaker 6>t tw and call into the show at five one

1505
01:23:45.079 --> 01:23:50.279
<v Speaker 6>two nine four two, or connect to the show online

1506
01:23:50.479 --> 01:23:53.520
<v Speaker 6>at tiny dot cc slash call tw