WEBVTT 1 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.760 This is an interesting week we're having right now. I 2 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:26.600 am on my way to Chile, Santiago, Chile for overnight, 3 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:30.280 and I'm going to be meeting with our group for 4 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:36.920 our tour of Rapa Nui starting that weekend. And this 5 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:42.000 is pre recorded, obviously, but I am looking forward to 6 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:47.719 reporting back to you exactly what I experienced on Easter Island, 7 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.719 otherwise known as Rapa Nui. And I gotta tell you, 8 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.320 I'm excited, and I'm very very excited simply because I 9 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:59.159 never really expected to go to Easter Island ever. I mean, 10 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:02.159 I've been interested. I've talked to Graham Hancock about it. 11 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.560 I've talked to Robert Schock, who wrote extensively about his 12 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:11.480 experience there. And we're really fortunate to be going to 13 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:17.120 the island with Ed Barnhardt. And Ed, as you know, 14 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:20.760 is an archaeologist who has spent a great deal of 15 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:23.680 time there. In fact, he was there just before COVID 16 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:27.120 hit around twenty nineteen and had worked with the local 17 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:33.840 administration to survey and really plot what was known and 18 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.640 what is not known about the settlements on the island. 19 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:40.359 What he told me, and we're going to have him 20 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:43.200 back on the program. Actually We did have him talk 21 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.319 about Easter Island in the past, but if you remember, 22 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.079 he did some work with the previous administration and then 23 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:54.480 when the COVID hit, that administration left and there's a 24 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:59.519 new administration. So part of the trip that we're visiting 25 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:06.120 and going to take is including a reconnection with the 26 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.439 new administration so he can finish his work. So I 27 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:11.439 don't know what that entails, and we'll have on to 28 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.680 Ed on the program to talk more about what he 29 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:19.759 discovered during his survey, but also what he's gonna discover, 30 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.840 what he's gonna do while we're on this tour with him. 31 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.400 So it's gonna be fun. I guess what that means 32 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.960 is he's gonna do a little work along with touring 33 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:34.080 and showing us what the island's all about. You know, 34 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.199 I've always seen these amazing pictures of these moai, these 35 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:43.039 huge fifty eighty ton stone sculptures that are at the 36 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:45.719 perimeter and all over. They're skeedtered all over the place. 37 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.520 I've always wondered what they look like up close and personal. 38 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:52.159 It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. I'm bringing all my 39 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.439 equipment to show you as much details as possible, so 40 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:57.840 look forward to that. Hey, this is Cliff, your host 41 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.639 of Earth Ancients, and I hope you're doing well today. 42 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:04.560 You know, it's a great deal of fun to visit 43 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:09.240 these places. And if you've ever wondered and ever wanted 44 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:13.840 to come along with a good tour, Earth Ancients does 45 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:18.319 usually about three tours a year, and we have one 46 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:22.439 coming up in Turkey. It's June twenty second through July second, 47 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.360 and it includes a number of archaeologists, includes a number 48 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:32.800 of private visits the places like go Beckley, Teppy, Carahan Teppe, 49 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:36.199 and then we'll have a guide take us down into 50 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:40.719 the underground city of darren Kuru. So we're doing tons 51 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:43.800 of stuff on this tour. We're about halfway full. If 52 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:47.560 you're interested in touring whatsoever, and I gotta tell you 53 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.560 Earth Ancients is really a great place to start. Consider us. 54 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:58.319 Consider Earth Ancients for the Turkey tour. And also I've 55 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:03.280 just finished a dialogue with uh Lydia Di Leong and 56 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:08.080 her husband Arturo. We're going to do a Sacred Pyramid 57 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:12.039 tour in Guatemala December first, that first week of December 58 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:17.199 twenty twenty five. And this has just been somewhat completed 59 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:19.680 in terms of an understanding of what we want to do. 60 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:22.759 The itinerary won't be out for another couple of weeks, 61 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.759 but if you have interest in any of the tours 62 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.319 that we're doing, send me an email, send it to 63 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:33.319 earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com and I'll 64 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:35.319 get right back to you. Now. For all the details 65 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:39.079 on all of our tours, go to earth Ancients dot com, 66 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.160 forward slash Tours. You can see all the itinerary. This 67 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.480 Turkey tour, we only take twenty people. We don't want 68 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:46.839 to take more than that because we want to get 69 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:50.759 everybody in one bus. We want everybody to be comfortable. 70 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.040 We want everybody to be able to see all the 71 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:56.279 sites and all the details of every place we go to. 72 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.920 So check it out earth Ancients dot com, forward slash too, 73 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:04.959 and consider Earth Ancients for your upcoming tour. You know, 74 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:08.319 and let's say I'm gonna mention is that our tours 75 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:13.759 are literally half the typical price. We don't scamp. The 76 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:18.160 food is excellent, the travel is excellent, the guides are excellent. 77 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:22.240 They're a five star tour across the board, but not 78 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.079 for the typical price. And you'll be surprised. Do some 79 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:31.040 comparisons compare to compare other organizations with Earth Ancients. So 80 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:34.759 Earth Ancients dot com for Slah tour. All right, enough 81 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:40.759 about that. Today's program is with best selling author Joshua Hammer. 82 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:43.519 He wrote a book a couple of years ago called 83 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:49.240 The Badass Librarians of Timbuck II, and that was about 84 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:53.120 a historical moment in Europe. Today's program has to do 85 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:58.959 with the discovery in the eighteen fifties of these cuneiform 86 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:06.360 these clay tablets that have these spikes in them, that 87 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:10.720 they used stylists a piece of reed and they would 88 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:16.720 right into these clay tablets. It's the discovery of what 89 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:19.800 at that time was thought to be a lot of 90 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:25.759 civilization of the Assyrians. Now we've had an seriologist, Irving 91 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:31.439 Finkel on the program to describe just how sophisticated the 92 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:38.120 Assyrians were and the Babylonians the later culture. But the 93 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:42.839 Assyrians come out of nowhere and in eighteen fifty in 94 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:49.759 Iraq present day Iraq, they found a complete library of 95 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:54.959 these cuneiforms. They also found huge walls of beautiful reliefs 96 00:06:55.959 --> 00:07:01.600 and other artifacts that just blew everybody, Wait, what's amazing 97 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:07.000 and this is what the story is all about, is 98 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:13.920 the fact that the entire European collective Germany, It's Italy, France, 99 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:22.240 England and so forth, were on their seat, on the 100 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:24.959 edge of their seats with these discoveries. I mean, the 101 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:31.120 papers were publishing them. There were columns, and oddly enough, 102 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:35.079 this is just before cameras photography was in the use. 103 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:40.399 They would send out illustrators to illustrate the artifacts that 104 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:47.600 were found. They would send illustrators to show these cuneiforms, 105 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.600 and it was a fabulous period of time, you know, 106 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:54.399 even though the technology isn't anything close to what we 107 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:59.399 would consider cool. But Josh talks about this, this riddle 108 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:03.120 that they I mean, they're trying to decipher this, and 109 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.759 what they did is pure genius. So today's program is 110 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:13.759 the Mesopotamian Riddle. An archaeologist, a soldier, a clergyman, and 111 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:17.120 the race to decipher the world's oldest writing. And my 112 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:25.519 guest today is Joshua Hammer. He's coming to us from Berlin, Germany. Hey, 113 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:28.079 spring is just around the corner where there's going to 114 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.360 be getting better and better as we continue on into 115 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:33.679 the year. And this means it's time to think about 116 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:38.399 getting away on a vacation. Earth Ancients has the best 117 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:42.360 tours you could ever imagine, and we are talking about 118 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:47.480 Turkey in summer June twenty second through July second. This 119 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:51.240 is our second annual tour to this amazing city. We 120 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:54.799 all land and meet in Istanbul and for eleven days 121 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.720 we tour some of the most amazing sights in all 122 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:04.759 of Middle East. We're talking the underground city of darren Kuru, Cappadocia, 123 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:08.519 go Beckley Tepe and even Carahan Teppy. This is a 124 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:10.519 place that is very much off limits to a lot 125 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:15.759 of people except Earth Ancients. Our tours are literally half 126 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:19.840 fifty percent less than what you typically would pay for 127 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:24.559 an all inclusive Lemon Dade tour with our host Mohammed 128 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:31.039 Imbraheim and a variety of archaeologists, geologists and scientists who 129 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:34.720 are providing information on the latest discoveries in this part 130 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.639 of the world. The Earth Ancient's second annual Turkey Tour 131 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:41.279 is not to be missed. For the full light itenerary 132 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:44.799 and more information, go to Earth ancients dot com forward 133 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:47.720 slash tours. Click on the banner and you'll see the 134 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:51.360 full eight tenerary and all the details. Remember If you 135 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:55.600 want a fantastic tour at half the normal fee, think 136 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:58.559 about Earth Ancients Tours. We've been doing them for many, 137 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:02.240 many years and they are a blast. Earthanses dot Com 138 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:36.320 forward slash Tours. Come out and join us. We've got 139 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:40.159 a new one for you this week, my friends. Typically 140 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:45.840 we are dealing with historical events in real time, we're 141 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:52.120 gonna feature something quite new. It has historical ramifications, but 142 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:55.200 it's got a twist. It's a I would call it 143 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:58.080 a historical fiction, but we're gonna ask the author here 144 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.360 in the second a little more about it. But it's 145 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:04.080 got I mean, from what I've captured so far, it's 146 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:08.000 it's a good one. The author is Joshua Hammer. He 147 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:11.080 is a New York Times best selling author of six books, 148 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:15.519 including The Badass Librarians of Timbuck two, I Gotta Catch You, 149 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.159 I Gotta Find That one, and his writing has appeared 150 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:22.240 in New York Times Magazine, GQ, Atlantic, The New Yorker, 151 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:28.159 and The National Geographic. And he's coming to us from Berlin. 152 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.080 The book we're talking about today is called The Mesopotamian Riddle. 153 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.519 An archaeologist, a soldier, a clergyman and the race to 154 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.879 decipher the world's oldest writing, and we're going to get 155 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.879 into it right now. So Hey, Josh, great to see 156 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:43.480 how you doing. 157 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:44.840 Good to be here. Thank you. 158 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:50.840 Talk a little bit about constructing a historical novel that 159 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:53.679 has a fictional platform. How do you how do you 160 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:54.000 pull that? 161 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:57.919 Well, first of all, I must correct you. It is nonfiction. 162 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:02.879 Oh, it's actual. Well, the actual facts are lined up 163 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:06.639 in terms of historical events. But is it is it 164 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:09.360 a how would you describe the book? 165 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:15.320 I would describe it as a faithful rendering of what 166 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.360 actually happened. So I guess that qualifies his nonfiction. 167 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.799 Okay, so it is nonfiction. Excuse me. I'm glad that 168 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:28.080 we made that correction. It's it's fascinating to me because 169 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.279 at the time that we're talking about, we're talking about 170 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.200 the eighteen fifties, there seemed to be a hell of 171 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:38.639 a lot more interest in historical discoveries worldwide, and you 172 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:44.679 kind of capture the discovery of cuneiforms in what is 173 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.759 known at that time as Mesopotamia, which is present day. 174 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:52.679 It can be Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Iran in those areas, 175 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:54.360 So what was mostly Iraq? 176 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:56.919 I'd say mostly Iraq finds a rock. 177 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:01.960 Talk about the collection of data and how this was formed, 178 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:03.360 how this book was pulled together. 179 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:11.559 WHOA, It was a pretty complicated process. I mean, well, essentially, 180 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.519 the book is about two different quests. One was an 181 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:19.960 archaeological quest. There's been rumors about a lost civilization, great 182 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:24.759 civilization of Assyria floating around for years, decades, centuries even, 183 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.720 I mean no, actually going back to the ancient Greeks 184 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:34.120 who went by the desert around Mosul and saw sort 185 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.639 of ill defined mounds and suspected that there was this 186 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:43.159 civilization of Nineveh, the Assyrian civilization might be buried up there, 187 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:47.080 but nobody really had gotten around to it, you know. 188 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.399 Except for some peripheral digging around the edges of these mounds, 189 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:55.159 nobody really tried to explore them. Oddly enough, it wasn't 190 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:58.759 really until the eighteen forties that that archaeological quest began 191 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:02.639 in earnest thanks to one one in two individuals, basically 192 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:03.960 a Frenchman and an Englishman. 193 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:04.960 UH. 194 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.480 And then the other quest was the intellectual, the detective, 195 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:19.039 the linguistic detected detective story to UH decipher these strange 196 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.080 inscriptions and had written in some dead language that were 197 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.559 found on the inscribed on the walls of these palaces 198 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:28.960 that they were uncovering this times. So you had these 199 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.879 really these two this confluence of of quests going on 200 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:37.200 and exactly the same, well, one one catalized the other. Obviously, 201 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.000 although there had been a few, you know, over the 202 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:45.799 years of decades, there had been some qneiform inscriptions had 203 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:50.320 surfaced in various places. You know, a diplomat might pull 204 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:53.759 up some slab lying under uh, you know, in the 205 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:58.080 dust in Babylon, and and and so things were there, 206 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:03.399 you know, but they they really did not dominate thinking 207 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.879 about the ancients like the Egyptians did, you know. So 208 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.039 what really wasn't until the eighteen forties that they began 209 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.080 to discover the ruins of Assyria. This whole lost empire 210 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.559 came back to life. And that's when I was really 211 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.799 resurrected from the dead, and that's when the real effort 212 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:21.879 to figure out what these ancients were saying began. So 213 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:25.200 basically was a question of following both of these quests 214 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:29.240 and then kind of weaving the stories together structurally and 215 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:33.360 also trying to understand get my brain around how these 216 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:35.240 decipherers worked. 217 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:40.279 Right, And what I love about this story is. It's 218 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:44.879 a detective story, but it's also a race to decipher 219 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:49.759 these cuneiforms. The characters are fascinating. You have Austin Lanyard, 220 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:57.279 Henry Rawlingson, Edward Higgs Higgs as the three main figure 221 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:01.519 points that are pulling together or their knowledge, pulling together 222 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:07.639 their resources to actually begin uh deciphering this this uh 223 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.639 these cuneiform what are? What are? The countries were involved 224 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.679 in this, and we know Germany had a big hand 225 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:16.320 in this, but who else is. 226 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.039 In Which aspect are we talking about? You mean the 227 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:23.879 archaeological aspect or the actual decipherment or well, okay, so 228 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:28.320 really yeah, it's such a complicated tale because like, unlike 229 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:34.200 the hieroglyphs, which had one language and one writing system, 230 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.039 uniform was a writing system that was used to write 231 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.600 a lot of different a lot of different ancient languages. 232 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:44.039 So you have people working on all these You had 233 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.399 you had Germans, you had some Germans, you had Danes, 234 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:53.320 you had English, British, Irish, French. It was a multi 235 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.240 national effort working on a lot of different different scripts, 236 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:01.279 h and languages, but all written aostentially in these with 237 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:06.480 these weird wedge shaped characters that we now know, originated 238 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.599 in Sumer like thirty four hundred BC, and then kind 239 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:13.119 of proliferated around the Near East, you know, over the 240 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:16.359 over the millennia and really kept going for thirty five 241 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:19.119 hundred years in various forms. 242 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.799 We've had a cuneiform expert from the British Museum on 243 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.279 this program. We've had a couple of people and a 244 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:32.799 lot of these are these these tablets are daily activities, 245 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:37.759 you know, from you know, just doing you know, chores 246 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.240 and things like that had at this time when they 247 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:46.480 began deciphering deciphering them. Were there historical references that were 248 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.880 of any note in the early period of the finds. 249 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:55.519 Well, so there were there were two basic uh reference points. 250 00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:01.680 The Bible, which the Old Testament, which talked about the 251 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.039 really only discussed the Assyrian Empire in context of the 252 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:12.480 It's it's, it's attacks on the Jews in Uh, Judea 253 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:17.200 and Samaria. So there were long Book of Kings for instance, 254 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.279 Second Book of Kings has lots of passages about the 255 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:24.640 the Assyrian kings and their attempts to conquer Jerusalem and 256 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:29.480 and the the dispersal of the Ten Tribes. So that 257 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:34.039 was one point, and then the Greeks, people like Herodotus. 258 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.920 The ancient Greek historians wrote about the Assyrians, but from 259 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:40.440 the perspective of people who lived hundreds of years later, 260 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.000 so they didn't really have a contemporaneous knowledge and a 261 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.160 lot of what they wrote about. I mean, Herodotus was, 262 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:48.839 you know, the father of history, but he was also 263 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:53.960 known as a great, a great, a great fabuloust, so 264 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.160 so a lot of people didn't trust what he wrote about. 265 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.200 But that that's basically what you had. You had the Greeks, 266 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:03.519 and you had the classical historians, and that was the 267 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:05.839 sum of knowledge about these people. It wasn't very much, 268 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:08.799 but yeah, it gave it gave a ground that, it 269 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:10.480 gave some reference points. 270 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.480 The idea of a lot of civilization seems to be 271 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:19.880 a theme in the book that is grasping the imaginations 272 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.359 of the people at that time. And one of the 273 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.359 things that I found was interesting that is not really 274 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.160 a focal point for today's society is they would these 275 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:35.039 archaeologists would take huge sections, if not entire buildings Hallom 276 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:41.599 back to Europe, rebuild them and have these daily exhibits 277 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:44.039 where they you know, it's like you're back in them 278 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.319 in the Mediterranean. It's really amazing what they did. 279 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.759 Yeah, you know, the thing is about these things that 280 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.160 those like the one of the reasons that the that 281 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.920 the Egyptians maintained a greater hold on the public imagination 282 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:01.839 and the Assyrians did because you Egyptians built in stone 283 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.279 and these things lasted for you know, for thousands of years. 284 00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:10.480 The the Mesopotamians built in mud brick. That stuff disintegrated, 285 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:14.680 but they did panel these mud brick buildings with incredible 286 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:22.559 carved bar reliefs, you know, obsidia alabaster limestone bar reliefs. 287 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:25.880 Often these like thin layers spread over these mud So 288 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.599 those survived, a lot of them survived. The buildings themselves 289 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:36.880 were destroyed when they tried to recreate the lost Kingdom 290 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.400 of Assyria, you know, or Nineveh, the great capital of 291 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:43.039 Nineva back in England for like a World's Fair exhibition 292 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:46.200 in the eighteen fifties. It was all like completely complete 293 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.000 fantasy because they didn't really know what these things look like. 294 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.599 They just used you know, they used motifs, they used 295 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.759 Doric you know, Greek columns. I mean, just like a 296 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:59.200 weird mishmash of architectural ancient architectural designs that you know, 297 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.160 really came out of layers imagination and the imagination of 298 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:09.119 his architectural partner whose name mentioned in the book, but 299 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.960 a case. But anyway, but what they did have with 300 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.640 these so they had these these these alabaster bar reliefs 301 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.720 that were pretty detailed and gave kind of an amazing 302 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:24.000 view of walled cities that were conquered by the Assyrians 303 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:26.880 and battlefields and its incredible stuff. You know, really gave 304 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:29.880 you feeling for I mean, just imagine like there was 305 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.880 no not you know, really very little knowledge about these people. 306 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.480 It's certainly no pictorial evidence, right, and then suddenly they're 307 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:41.960 just digging up like voluminous images of what life was like, 308 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.240 even you know, with really incredible detail, down to the 309 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:46.759 way that these people and their enemies were dressed. I mean, 310 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:51.160 really got to find the chariots, what the chariots looked like, 311 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:54.720 their horses, the actual sacking of the city. They had 312 00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:57.400 like a cinematic sense of this stuff. So it really 313 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:01.160 opened up insight into a world it was only more 314 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.160 you know, vaguely understood or known about. But the buildings 315 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.640 themselves were gone, there was nothing left of those. 316 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.480 So so you mentioned Laird as the one who's building 317 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:17.480 these exhibits is I mean, they found these uniforms in 318 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.759 an ancient library, but it was not really a library. 319 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:22.839 It was more like a hole in the. 320 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.319 Ground because that was pretty much where it was left, right. 321 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:28.160 Yeah, because it was all this, like you said. 322 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.680 There's different there are different things. So the first things 323 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.079 they found were these stone alabaster bar releafs with these 324 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:41.880 incredible inscriptions, you know, chiseled into the stone. Right, that 325 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.720 was like the first wave of findings. And then later 326 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:50.440 Layer kept going back. He stumbled into you're kind of right, 327 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.000 it is a library. It was a repository of all 328 00:22:53.079 --> 00:23:01.240 the documents from this particular long raining power, powerful Assyrian king. 329 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:04.440 Everything was accumulated in a couple of rooms and the 330 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.319 walls had collapsed, and so Layer just stumbled into this 331 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:12.559 the remains of this of this corner of the palace, 332 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:17.599 and just found like thousands of clay tablets, broken tablets, coupled. 333 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:19.599 Some of them were intact, many of them were broken, 334 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:25.200 but like an astonishing array of of of material, all 335 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:29.079 written in the same cuneiform writing that was on the 336 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.279 walls of the temples. But that one was that that 337 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.640 was sort of much clear you know, written in stone 338 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.240 chiseled in there easier to read. This was a little 339 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.559 bit trickier. Some of these things were incredibly minial. One 340 00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:42.640 of the things that the Assyrians liked to do was 341 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:47.839 to create these cylinders like were maybe like the size 342 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:50.720 of a bowling pin a bow, and they would and 343 00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:56.640 they would chisel inscribed with these incredibly fine instruments, these 344 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:01.279 cuneiform symbols, like basically telling the same stories that were 345 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:05.079 on the palace walls, but in miniature, I mean incredible miniature. 346 00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:08.319 So and then they were and then they would bury 347 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.759 them like twenty feet or ten feet underground. It's almost 348 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:15.880 like a time capsule for future kings to discover. And 349 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.319 that they would excavate these things, and then that was 350 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:23.039 a tremendous challenge to read those ones, much more difficult 351 00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.480 than the inscriptions on the walls. 352 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:28.400 Talk a little about a bit about the cuneiform. You 353 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:33.519 describe the writing as arrows, different arrows. 354 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.279 Arrow ahead is the way they used to be called. 355 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:39.039 Yeah, and that's because the tool is a stylist, right. 356 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.039 Well, it's like it's like it's a it's a thick 357 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:46.359 read that grows in the Middle East. And then they 358 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:49.920 would pull off the stalk and they would split it, 359 00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:53.359 and it would because it was it would split naturally. 360 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:55.680 And then each one of those stalks would end. You 361 00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.880 would end up with a wedge shaped end, and then 362 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.440 you would wouldn't you weren't like Carvey. You were just 363 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:08.200 basically placing this onto wet clay. This is the wet 364 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:11.480 claim method. I'm not talking so, so the chronology is 365 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:13.440 that they came up with this wet claim method where 366 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.559 they would just just put the the wedge shaped edge 367 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.039 of the stylist, press it onto the clay and then 368 00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.079 and that's how they would write. And then later on 369 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:27.039 when they created these giant palaces in Mesopotamia, they took 370 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:29.640 those same signs and they chiseled them into the walls, 371 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.279 but the clay never really just appeared. That was always 372 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:36.960 a medium for for for for writing as well. So 373 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:38.880 this is like began and this began, you know, a 374 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:43.680 thirty four hundred b c. Or so, and evolved over 375 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:45.039 the over the centuries. 376 00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:48.240 I don't want to give the book away, but uh, 377 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:56.079 what were the references used to begin uh decipherment of 378 00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:58.079 these cuneiforms? 379 00:25:59.200 --> 00:25:59.480 Wow? 380 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.240 Okay, not that you had to do it all away 381 00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:02.799 because that's a lot. 382 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:08.319 No, no, no, I'll try to. One of the reference points was 383 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:14.359 the Rosetta Stone, which was a different, different writing, different 384 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.960 language entirely, but some of the techniques from the Rosetta 385 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.039 Stone were also employed in this. This dicipherment came next. 386 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.079 So what the Rosetta Stone was, in case many of 387 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:30.599 your people watching this don't don't quite get it, It 388 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:35.319 was a slab discovered by the French. It was a 389 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.480 proclamation about the new king, and it was written because 390 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:43.759 Egypt there was about seventy or eighty. It was a 391 00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:45.880 couple maybe one hundred couple one hundred or two hundred 392 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:49.799 years before Christ and Egypt was a Greek colony. So 393 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:53.039 you had ancient Greek written in one level, and you 394 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:55.400 had higher glyphs on another level, and you had something 395 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:59.839 called demotic script, which was like a shorthand version of hieroglyphs. 396 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.960 And ancient Greek was a living language, I mean, it 397 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.039 was a dead language, but the writing was understood, right, 398 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.160 I mean, people studied ancient Greek in class in London, 399 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:13.359 in English boarding schools all over the world. They were 400 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.279 able to take that known language and kind of match 401 00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:22.319