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Speaker 1: What's going on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It

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is heard live every day from noon to three on

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WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content

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like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily

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Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet.

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And again, thank you so much for your support. As

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we have begun doing here on our tuesdays, we want

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to welcome to the program Andrew Dunn. He is the

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publisher of long Leaf Politics longleafpol dot com and a

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contributing columnist to the McClatchy Papers, The Charlotte Observer, and

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The News and Observer.

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Speaker 1: Andrew, how are you today, sir?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing fantastic. It's great to be back with you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I appreciate it. As always, you're making the

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time for us. So, who's ready for a tax increase

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for transit right in Charlotte Mecklenberg. So, I guess. So

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there's a piece of legislation that was filed by Senators

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Raven Craven and Sawyer and so I guess for people

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who want to see the transit plan funded with an

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additional one cent sales tax in Mecklenburg County, I guess

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this is this is a positive development.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess so. I mean, this has been this

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has been in the works for years and years now.

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Charlotte's been wanting to do some big swing transit plan

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for really the past decade. The price tag keeps going up.

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The latest is something like thirteen billion dollars, and so

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they've been pushing for this one cent sales tax increase

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that would generate something like four hundred million dollars a

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year that would pay for it all. But the thing

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is that Charlotte has to get the General Assembly to

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sign off on a referendum to ask Charlotte voters if

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we're willing to pay for that increase. So yeah, I mean,

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if you're in favor of the transit plan, this is

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a good step to have the bill filed. But I

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just don't see it passing yet.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 3: Why not, Well, because there's still a really big disconnect

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between how the City of Charlotte is looking at transit

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and how the General Assembly is looking at transit. You

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know how, Speaker Dustin Hall was here the other day

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and he he had some offhand comment about when he

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takes you know, Charlotte transit to Republicans in the General Assembly,

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they basically say, well, why are why are we going

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to raise taxes so that they can buy a bunch

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of trains. Really, how they're viewing it is it's, you know,

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Charlotte wants some shiny new toys. And I don't really

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blame him because that's kind of how Charlotte has treated

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transit for the last decade decade and a half. How

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can we get some new toys that it's going to

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spur economic development? So until Charlotte comes around and starts

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talking about transit is actually transportation, how can we move

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people from point A to point B? How can we

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you know, how can we use that to build the

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city that we want? There's just going to be no

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hope with the General Assembly.

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Speaker 2: Now, you had a piece a couple of weeks ago

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with the Charlotte Observer and op ed there titled Republicans

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can save Charlotte from itself on transit, and you recommended

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that Republicans in the legislature should take control of Charlotte's

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transit plan, fix it, and then take the credit. So

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that is that realistic, especially what I just heard you

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say about the sort of general attitude that you know,

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Charlotte just wants some shiny toys. Is that a realistic

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thing that could even be attained at the legislature.

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Speaker 3: I do think it's realistic and it could happen. So

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one thing that I think is going to pass the

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General Assembly this year is some sort of transit authority

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for the Charlotte region. That's part of the big compromise

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quote unquote that Charlotte has reached with the General Assembly.

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So far as you know, Charlotte's on board with some

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sort of authority to oversee what all this money would do.

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The sticking point is going to be who gets to

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be on the authority. I mean, the City of Charlotte

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still wants it a lot of you know, local Charlotte

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political appointees, so I was arguing that it should be

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more General Assembly appointees, you know, people with expertise and

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knowledge here. So I think it's possible. The big problem

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is going to be, you know, your listeners might recall back, gosh,

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it's been ten fifteen years ago where there was a

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bill that would put Charlotte's airport under an authority, and

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that was a huge blow up. You know, WBT covered

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it extensively, So how you know, the question is how

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can the General Assembly structure it in such a way

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that Charlotte's on board with it and doesn't turn it

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into a huge fiasco.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's always a problem, whether it's the Metropolitan

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Transit Commission or the planning organizations or any of these

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sort of larger regionalized bodies, is that Charlotte doesn't want

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to seed control by vote and count basically to the

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six towns or the rounding counties. But those areas they

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don't want their votes to be ineffective either by having

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Charlotte control the entire board. So figuring out that that

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number balance has always been difficult, no matter what it seems.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is a little different

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than the airport and that you know, the airport was

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in Charlotte's control, so it was taking something away. This

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doesn't exist yet, you know, this this sales tax, so

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it's not quite the same. Hopefully it'll be a little easier,

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but you know, I guess we'll see what comes out

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of committee.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right.

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Speaker 2: So another thing that you had written over at your

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substack or your website is it are you on substack

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or is this just your own website.

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Speaker 3: It's powered by substack.

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Speaker 2: It is okay, long Leaf pol longleafpolitics dot com. And

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so you got three things North Carolina Republican clubs should

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start doing. And you gave obviously three things local club

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ubs can find can help find strong electable conservatives. And

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you said you're the focus should be on somebody who

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is normal, competent and can effectively communicate our values in

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the suburbs. So I wanted to ask you why the suburbs?

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What why that demographic?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question. And you know, the suburbs

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are really where statewide races are won and lost in

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North Carolina. You know, the rural areas are very heavily Republican.

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Urban areas obviously very heavily Democrat. Republican suburbs have the

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potential to go back and forth. They've certainly been going

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a lot bluer over the last call it eight years,

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but I don't think that's irreversible. But Republicans have really

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done kind of a poor job over the last couple

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of cycles. Really emphasizing candidates who can speak effectively in

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the suburbs. And I think, you know, the whole column

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on my website came about because I've had the privilege

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to speak to some of these Republican clubs over the

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past month, and they're really, you know, kind of hidden

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powerhouses in the Republican Party in North Carolina. I mean,

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there's a lot of smart people there, a lot of

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elected officials go and I just really see a lot

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of potential for those clubs to really increase their power

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in helping shape primaries and shape the candidates that will

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ultimately go onto the statewide ballot.

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Speaker 2: You also mentioned fundraising collecting money should be a core

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mission for these Republican clubs, and then on your third

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recommendation was that Republicans who traditionally they make it a

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rule basically to you know, stay neutral in the party primaries,

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and you're saying, no, that shouldn't be the case anymore.

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And I think that would be a very big change

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for for a lot of the party leadership.

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Speaker 3: I think it would be and you know, the North

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Carolina Republican Party has actually put it in their bylaws

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that the party is supposed to stay neutral in primaries,

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and all of these clubs are supposed to stay neutral.

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I think it's a mistake. I mean, because primaries are

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kind of, by definition, a party activity. You're trying to decide,

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you know, who the party's nominee is going to be.

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And just kind of leaving it open ended and not

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allowing these clubs to have a voice in there, it

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just makes it kind of a free for all. I mean,

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primaries are already sort of low information, low turnout races.

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So anything that we can do to make sure that

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we're getting the best, strongest candidate for the Republican Party

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I think is a necessary step.

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Speaker 2: And so that was another piece. Again, this is at

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long leafpol dot com. You had another piece, and you know,

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we're of blowing through these things because you create so

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much content that I read.

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Speaker 1: So it's a yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: The other The other piece I was reading the other

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uh yeah the other day was because it's published on

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the third Republican dads are leading by example. And this

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was one of the bizarre reactions I saw. It was

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with Elon Musk when he had his kid at the

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Oval office and they were and there was all these

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attacks against him, all he's using his kid as a

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prop or as a shield or something. And we got

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a couple examples in North Carolina that you mentioned. Dad's

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just you know, on the campaign trail or doing their

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jobs in elected office and they bring their kids around,

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and you think, this is this is a good sign,

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this is a good thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean there's kind of a broader sentiment in

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American culture right now that children hold people back. You

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know that you can't quote unquote.

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Speaker 2: Have it all.

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Speaker 3: I have a career, you have lead, have a leadership position,

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and have a family, and that's just not true. And

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I think, you know, you know, at the national level,

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Vice President jd Vance is doing a great job normalizing

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children and families. And then I highlight two people in

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North Carolina, Representative Mike Sheefzel and New Labor Commissioner Luke Farley.

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They've had their kids, they're both the fathers of young children,

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and they're both out and about, you know, openly, you know,

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being dads and public officials at the same time. And

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I think the message it sends to the broader culture

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is just so important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I encourage people to head on over subscribe long

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leafpol dot com. Longleaf Politics. You can also read Andrew's

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work at The Charlotte Observer and The News and Observer.

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And we'll talk with you again on Tuesday at noon,

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same time. Andrew, thanks for your time again. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Thank you all right.

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Speaker 2: If you're listening to this show, you know I try

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to keep up with all sorts of current events, and

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I know you do too. And you've probably heard me

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say get your news from multiple sources. Why well, because

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it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've

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been so impressed with ground News. It's an app and

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it's a website and it combines news from around the

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world in one place so you can compare coverage and

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verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground,

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dot news slash pete. I put the link in the

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podcast description too. I started using ground News a few

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months ago and more recently chose to work with them

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as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how

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stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature

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shows you which stories get ignored by the left and

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the right. See for yourself check dot ground, dot news

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slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen

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percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to

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get unlimited access to every feature your subscription. Then not

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only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground news

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as they make the media landscape more transparent. So one

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of the in going back to the transit issue here

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because we are all maybe going to vote on another

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sale tax increase for transit here in Mecklenburg County, depending

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on what happens with the legislation. And I've got a

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copy of the Senate Bill one forty five in front

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of me. I'm not going to read through all of

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the details, but don't worry, I will read through a

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piece of legislation later, but not about transit, okay, But

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a couple of the notes here that I thought were

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pretty interesting. So apparently congestion begins slowing the employment growth

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rate in a region at approximately thirty seven annual hours

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of commuter delay. And yeah, commuter delay. So that's the

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first number you're looking at, thirty seven hours of delays okay,

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per year on average in a region. Okay, growth is

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halted altogether at one hundred eighty annual hours of commuter delay.

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This is according to the Texas A and M Transportation Institute,

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the Charlotte Concord Gastonia Metropolitan Statistical Area or the MSA,

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we hit thirty eight hours, so we were above that

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thirty seven hour growth rate retardation level. And that's thirty

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eight hours we had in the year two thousand, So

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twenty five years ago we hit thirty eight annual hours

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of delays and right now or well it's probably higher now,

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but in twenty nineteen pre pandemic, which by the way,

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happy five year COVID anniversary everybody, fifty three hours is

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where we were in twenty nineteen. I have to imagine

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we're above that now. In twenty years, it is projected

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that the population of the Charlotte region is going to

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be fifty percent higher. So right now it's about two

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point six million people in the Charlotte metro which include

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that's Concord, Gastonia and Charlotte, so two point six million,

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and by the year twenty forty five, it's projected that

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will be at four point one million. And so what

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Pat McCrory always talked about when he was pitching the

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blue line, right, the McCrory line as it was referred to,

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down South Boulevard was that it's about creating options for people.

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Speaker 1: So if you don't want to.

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Speaker 2: Live on a light rail line, if you don't want to,

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you know, take the train into center city or wherever.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to.

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Speaker 2: But if you want to, there is the option to

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do that, and it will direct more dense development in

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the urban core. And that then will you know, theoretically right,

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it frees up some of the road space outside of

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the urban core. And there is no scenario that I'm

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aware of, at least where an urban core.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't have congestion. That's kind of the deal.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be loud, it's going to be crowded,

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and it's going to be congested. That's what you get

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when you live in a city, right, and in a dense

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urban area. Those are the hallmarks of it. And if

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you don't want to live there, that's totally fine. See

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I'm an options guy. I want all of the above

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options there. So I'm not trying to force people into

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living in the suburbs or out in the country or

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in the city. But that was always the argument, was

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to provide options, and according to Andrew Dunn, a lot

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of people have lost sight of that as sort of

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the guiding philosophy. Here's a great idea. How about making

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com and make memories that'll last a lifetime. Talking about

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this Charlotte transit plan, that there was a breakthrough quote

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unquote as it was described at the time over the

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summer between city and county leaders. They said they had

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achieved a breakthrough to advance the region's long stalled transit

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plan after years of delays, and according to a write

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up by Steve Harrison over at Charlotte Ledger, the main

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components are a new commuter rail to North Mecklenburg and

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maybe southern Iredale known as the Red Line, an extension

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of the Blue Line light rail into Pineville and Ballantine,

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and a new light rail line called the Silver Line

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that was originally envisioned as running from the airport all

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the way down to Matthews. But now it appears like

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Matthews is not happy. I think they've against recommendation for

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this plan because they're going to get a rapid bus

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transit line or a bus rapid transit BRT they're not

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getting a light rail line under the plan because there's

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not enough money for it. Because the legislature said, look,

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you can't do a mass transit plan and not have

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any funding in there for roads. And so they created

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this breakdown of formula where the net proceeds for the

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sales tax revenue forty percent would go to roads, forty

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percent would go to rail, and twenty percent would go

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to buses. So Matthews wants a train, they do not

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want they do not want a bus line. And then

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there is also an extension of the gold Line streetcar

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down Batysford Road to the west and down Central Avenue

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to the east. And I think it's important to note

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here that that streetcar line, I call it the Anthony

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Fox Line, because that was done in order to help

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Anthony Fox secure the mayoral win lo those many years

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ago when he was a city council member and he

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was running against a fellow city council member, John Lassiter,

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a Republican. And the plan did not call for that

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streetcar line to leap frog over other transit lines. But

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the East Side was up in arms about how they

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were being neglected. They didn't want to bus rapid transit

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line either in East Charlotte, and so they came down

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and they were, you know, beating the drum for a

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light rail line, and so the streetcar was done in

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order to and and Lasted opposed it because he's like,

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the plan is not for the streetcar line to leap

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frog over the other projects. And the Democrats behind you know,

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Anthony Fox, they made it an issue and Fox squeaked

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out the victory over John Lassiter in that mayor's race,

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the first you know mayor's race after Pat McCrory stepped

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down after what's seven years or seven terms rather fourteen

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years as Charlotte mayor. So that's sort of the background

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on that line. It never should have been built when

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it was now the Blue line, which was called by

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a lot of folks the mccruary line, because Pat was

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the you know, the lead cheerleader for the transit plan

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and for this first light rail line. You know, his

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argument was that this thing is supposed to be about

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giving people an option for transit. So if you don't

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want to drive in, you'll be able to take this

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train and you don't have to use it, but this

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will be available and it will revitalize the South end

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of the of Charlotte, which it has right, it absolutely has,

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and according to Andrew Dunn in his piece over at

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the Charlotte Observer and his op ed about this sparked

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a building boom that turned a run down manufacturing district

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into one of the most desirable places to live and

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work in the entire city ever since then. And if

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you haven't been to South End recently, it's crazy. I

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was down there like three weeks, four weeks ago or something.

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I mean, it's it's almost unrecognizable to me because I

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remember it before the train line was built over there,

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and there was really nothing down there. Ever since then,

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according to Dunn, Charlotte City Council has only seen dollar signs.

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They started looking at transit as a development strategy first

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and to transportation solution second, hence the gold Line, and

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why every single transit map since then has been determined

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on the neighborhoods it runs through and not what makes

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the most sense to alleviate traffic and stay under budget.

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The city has adopted or updated its proposal to the

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city or to the state so it includes more road funding,

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and Charlotte has also agreed to create this You know

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governing authority to manage all of the billions of dollars

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that a one cent sales tax increase would generate. The

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governance model, though, might be tricky as it has been proposed.

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00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:21,680
so the uh Mecklenburg County. Oh, hang on a second

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00:23:21,759 --> 00:23:25,039
before I go to the governance model. It's a pete

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tweet from Jonathan. Whatever happened to the cat's rail cars

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that needed wheel bearings replaced and we're supposed and we're

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supposed to be sent to California. That kind of just

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went away.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have not seen or heard any updates regarding

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that Charlie foxtrot of an operation and how they haven't

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00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,119
been maintaining the rail cars and yeah, all the problems

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and they had, although I will say I haven't heard

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of any derailments recently with the uh the blue line

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down the South Corridor. Like that's so that's a positive, right,

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that's a positive. We haven't heard of any replace any derailments.

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But yeah, that the cost when was that, Like that

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was over a year ago. But they had all the

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problems with the wheel bearings. They weren't being maintained, and

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then it created the derailments and then like they had

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to like ship the entire truck system all the way

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across to like Texas or something. Yeah, just absolute mess.

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So look, maybe under a transit authority things will improve.

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Just kidding now, oh man, I almost got through that sentence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's it's just I always feel like on these things

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where it's like you're just swapping out a different management

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structure for another, particularly when it comes to GOVC. So

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I don't expect improvements per se, You're just getting trade offs,

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right again, No solutions, only trade offs. Now, under this

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plan that was announced over the summer for a new authority,

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a transit authority, there would be twenty seven members on

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this body, which seems like a lot, right, seems like

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a lot. There would be members appointed by the City

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of Charlotte, so the city gets twelve members of the

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twenty seven. Mecklenberg County gets twelve members as well, but

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that would include six from the six towns. Okay, so

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the County Commission they would get six basically, and then

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each of the towns would get one. And so this

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obviously creates a bit of a problem because if you

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are in one of those towns and you would like to,

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you know, influence the outcome of a particular approach when

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it comes to transit plan routes or modes or whatever.

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Even if you were to band together with all of

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the other towns, you only have six votes, and the

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City of Charlotte has twelve of the twenty seven. So

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then you would need to peel off some of the

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either County commissioner votes at six, or you would need

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to peel off some votes maybe from the Charlotte City

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Council itself, right, Or you would need to peel off

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some votes from the General Assembly. They have two and

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the governor has one, So you're automatically, just by the

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nature of the way the body is constructed, you are

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already at a disadvantage if you are trying to, like,

447
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if an issue comes up, and I'm not identifying a

448
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particular issue, although I guess one could be the bus

449
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rapid transit line down to Matthews, Right, They want a

450
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light rail line, and there are reasons for that, you know,

451
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I think it there's a I don't know, there's there's

452
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,440
a certain esthetic reason to it, right, Like it's it's

453
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cooler to have a train than it is to have

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just buses, right, And the bus would operate in its

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own dedicated lane. And I'm assuming it would go down

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Independence Boulevard. The problem though, is that it is a

457
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lot more expensive right that. I think it was the

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most expensive line because there's no existing rail that runs

459
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down there, whereas the South line, the Blue line, and

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the one going up to North Mech the Red line

461
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those now like where they've been talking. I think they

462
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,039
negotiated the deal a couple of months ago where Norfolk

463
00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:45,640
Southern would would sell them that that rail line that's

464
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,319
up there, so you don't even have to pay for

465
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,359
the installation of the rail so you already and you'll

466
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,359
have the dedicated right away and all of that. It's

467
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,839
already there, so you got the you know, the grade

468
00:27:54,839 --> 00:27:58,200
crossings and everything. You don't have to worry about building

469
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,799
a brand new rail line from So that keeps the

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cost down versus the one to Matthews unless they can

471
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find another rail line that's there. But the other thing

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is that, and this is what the East Side residents

473
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were complaining about when bus rapid transit was initially slated

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for the East Line but also now down to Matthews.

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Also a bus rapid transit is that the bus stops

476
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can be moved way more easily and the way you

477
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spur development around the bus stations or these stops is

478
00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:32,759
to have permanence. Developers are not going to come in

479
00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:35,200
there and you know, blow the area up with a

480
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,039
whole bunch of apartment buildings and stuff and mixed use

481
00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:40,000
retail and all of that. They're not going to do

482
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:44,079
that if if they know that the bus stop can

483
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be just picked up and moved.

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Speaker 1: And that's the benefit of.

485
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: Bus stops is that if a route gets you know,

486
00:28:49,559 --> 00:28:51,960
low ridership, you could just move the route. You don't

487
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,720
have to worry about ripping down stations and stuff. And

488
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:59,319
so they've always wanted the train stations because you get

489
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,839
developed element around those train stations and then that increases

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00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,640
the tax base. See like, that's the play, and that's

491
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,799
what Andrew done references in his piece over at the

492
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,559
Charlotte Observer from a couple of weeks ago, and it

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00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,359
is true. But is the primary mission moving people or

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00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,680
is it development? All right, that'll do it for this episode.

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00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,039
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.

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00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,279
Speaker 2: I could not do the show without your support and

497
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,039
the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast,

498
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,480
So if you'd like, please support them too and tell

499
00:29:31,519 --> 00:29:32,039
them you heard it.

500
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:32,279
Speaker 1: Here.

501
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: You can also become a patron at my Patreon page

502
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:38,599
or go to dpetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so

503
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:45,359
much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.