1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,279 Speaker 1: What is up, fellas Echo's I Am Dana Valley coming 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,400 at you with the one and the only, this certified 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,640 fantabulous mister Grant hughes the season look Ahead offseason look 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,839 Ahead train excuse me continues to roll onward. We are 5 00:00:17,839 --> 00:00:22,440 on to the Utah Jazz, who aren't about that tanking shit. Grant, 6 00:00:22,879 --> 00:00:26,120 no more, thank you. Austin Inge, how are you doing 7 00:00:26,199 --> 00:00:27,079 before we get started? 8 00:00:27,559 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: I'm I'm ready to not tank this offseason. Lookhead either, 9 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:32,960 you're not gonna have to worry about that, just like 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,880 you don't have to worry about the Jazz losing on purpose. 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,679 They'll do it without, They'll do it naturally. 12 00:00:39,079 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: That's kind of the place to start is because you 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,359 see the Austin Ainge comments, and I think they've been 14 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:46,039 overblown because you mentioned you sort of alluded to this. 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,039 You can be the Jazz, use your picks, do whatever 16 00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:53,200 you want this offseason and try to win in the West, 17 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,880 and you will still finish fourteenth or fifteenth next year. Probably. 18 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,600 So I thought it was it felt like him trying 19 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,960 to make this show of force, and I just think 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,840 people kind of bought into it when I don't think 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,280 all right, Walker Kesler won't be taking five three pointers 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:07,879 a game at some point next like that might be 23 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,439 what he means by we're no longer tanking. But I 24 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,000 do think it lents itself to the question of do 25 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,079 the Utahazz need to take a bigger swing this offseason 26 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:19,840 because we're now three seasons into their rebuild and they 27 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,640 do not. They don't have a single person player on 28 00:01:22,719 --> 00:01:25,599 this team that is their guiding force of the future. 29 00:01:25,719 --> 00:01:27,680 I think the closest they come, if we were to 30 00:01:27,719 --> 00:01:31,519 rank them, is Will Hardy, their head coach. Then there's 31 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,359 a gap, and then it's like, is it Larry Marketing? 32 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,159 Is it Isaiah Collier? Is it Walker Kessler? Is it 33 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,480 that you could say the number five pick, that's probably 34 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,400 I guess the number five pick is the answer right now? 35 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: Right sure, unless you say any of the future first 36 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:49,159 rounders in drafts even later than this one like that. 37 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:51,079 Speaker 1: Well that's a problem then because you're just sitting here 38 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,799 waiting around for those That's what. 39 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, the core issue here is the cornerstone problem 40 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,760 and that the Jazz don't have one that that that's 41 00:01:59,319 --> 00:02:01,319 the thing to work through here. Do they need to 42 00:02:01,359 --> 00:02:04,439 take a big swing? Let's talk about like, what what 43 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,000 does that look like? What does that mean? Like? Because 44 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,800 to me, but we'll get into it here with some 45 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,840 of their their cap situation. Good this is so they're 46 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:17,599 gonna have about maybe more than thirty million in room 47 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,319 beneath the tax which will depend on some of the 48 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,840 non guarantees on the roster. That includes salaries they're gonna 49 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,639 pay the first rounders. This could be a higher number 50 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,439 before we get into so they'll have the non tax 51 00:02:28,439 --> 00:02:31,759 payermid level, they'll have the biannual. They already have thirteen 52 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,039 guaranteed contracts including those two first rounders. Got a billion 53 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,120 picks coming in the next few drafts, eleven. Actually they 54 00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:41,479 have control of the cap space thing I want to 55 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,400 ask you, and we can you can take we can 56 00:02:43,479 --> 00:02:47,120 jump around after this, like there's a possibility, given the 57 00:02:47,159 --> 00:02:49,199 number of expiring contracts they have on the books, that 58 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,759 they could be a Brooklyn Nets cap cap room level 59 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,680 team next off season. Because you've got Clarkson, You've got Collins, 60 00:02:57,719 --> 00:03:00,879 help me, you got Collin Sexton, You basically don't and 61 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,159 Marketing's deal is the only big one on the books. 62 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,879 So could you could you think as the Jazz, like 63 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,719 let's let that money come off, let's be a massive 64 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,400 free agent player. I know, stop laughing against the Jazz 65 00:03:16,439 --> 00:03:18,879 that that doesn't happen for them. Can we be like, 66 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,520 can we carve out a ton of cap space for 67 00:03:21,719 --> 00:03:26,000 next offseason? Take on assets, then be the facilitator, be 68 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:28,560 in the Brooklyn role that everybody's so envious of this 69 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,240 summer because everything goes through Brooklyn. There's there's more competition 70 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,400 probably next summer. We don't know. A bunch of teams 71 00:03:34,439 --> 00:03:36,800 could spend up with a cap space or do you 72 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,680 take on longer money? Now by trading those expirings and 73 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,560 and filling up the books, you remove the cap space 74 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:46,000 play and then you get just the conventional get assets 75 00:03:46,039 --> 00:03:48,159 for the trouble of taking stuff on. You got a 76 00:03:48,199 --> 00:03:51,680 couple options, and I don't know what the right one is. 77 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,960 So what have you have you given that? Some thought like, well, 78 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,560 I know that's this offseason, but the Jazz could really 79 00:03:56,599 --> 00:04:00,280 be gaming this for an offseason well after this one. 80 00:04:00,719 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: There will be a point in the slide show where 81 00:04:02,599 --> 00:04:04,639 it asks are they better off? How does that impact it? 82 00:04:04,639 --> 00:04:07,439 Because they could have seventy plus guy, Yes we did not, 83 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,680 So I think it's going to factor in a huge deal, 84 00:04:09,719 --> 00:04:12,520 and I'm not. I don't. What's interesting is when people 85 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:15,599 point out that capspace doesn't matter in Utah for free agency, 86 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,000 they're probably right, except they're also very wrong because two things. 87 00:04:20,319 --> 00:04:22,639 You can always do something like Indiana did with Bruce 88 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,439 Paz in twenty twenty three. It's not a star, but 89 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,319 you inflated someone's deal that you can then use in 90 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,240 a trade. Or by the way, Keith Smith of spow 91 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,240 Track says this all the time. Capspace isn't just about 92 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,079 free agents. You can use it in trades, to facilitate trades, 93 00:04:36,079 --> 00:04:38,680 to really define trades. It can be the difference for 94 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,480 if you're going out and you identify the player that 95 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,959 you want. Oh it, we gave up one or two 96 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,000 fewer first round picks than we would have because we 97 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,839 were just able to absorb a bunch of money. What 98 00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:51,399 I think is probably not being talked about enough though, 99 00:04:51,399 --> 00:04:53,480 and you mentioned it a couple of times. They have 100 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,639 so many expiring contracts this year that they could probably 101 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,959 just functionally do the same thing like if they wanted to, 102 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,319 like John collins Is, teams could look at assuming he 103 00:05:02,319 --> 00:05:04,639 picks up his player options, teams will look at him 104 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,959 or Clarkson or Colin Sexton as either relief down the 105 00:05:07,959 --> 00:05:09,839 line or someone else they could flip for more value 106 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,240 later that might appeal to teams more now. So I 107 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,879 don't think it functionally changes what they do this offseason, 108 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,399 aside from if you're on the fence about someone or 109 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:19,920 you're thinking about making a move just for the sake 110 00:05:19,959 --> 00:05:22,000 of making a move or taking on bad money. Let's 111 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,360 say I do think it could it'll it'll impact them 112 00:05:25,399 --> 00:05:26,800 there to where it's if you want them to be 113 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,439 the Jeremy Grant team or something, if Portlands want to compensate, 114 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,399 they're probably not going to be that team because they 115 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:33,519 think if they'll want to roll over, like now, if 116 00:05:33,519 --> 00:05:35,360 it's someone that has only a year left so that 117 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,839 they're an expiring contract, actually, like that's the Sam Presty special, right, 118 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,959 continuing to roll over like the expiring years. But I 119 00:05:41,959 --> 00:05:43,600 think that if you're looking at them to take on, 120 00:05:44,439 --> 00:05:47,360 you know, a player that has more than one season 121 00:05:47,439 --> 00:05:50,720 left on his contract, like or two total, that's probably 122 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,319 where like maybe they would draw the line to. 123 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: Me, okay, because that is that has been sort of 124 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,800 the conventionally discussed use of expirings, right, it's like for 125 00:05:58,879 --> 00:06:01,000 a for a team in their position, and it's like, hey, 126 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,439 we'll send you Collins's if he picks up the option 127 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,560 twenty six and a half million, send him out for 128 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,120 someone that makes roughly similar money for a longer stretch 129 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,199 of time or maybe more if you preserve enough cap 130 00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:15,120 space via other means with picks attached, Like that's that's 131 00:06:15,199 --> 00:06:19,000 the playbook for the expiring contract. So you're saying you 132 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,439 don't like the idea of that, because just keeping that 133 00:06:22,519 --> 00:06:26,959 space clear allows you to get assets potentially as a 134 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,120 facilitator and other trades that don't have the bad money attached. 135 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,399 Like that's that's like kind of plan a basically. 136 00:06:35,399 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: Right, because I just think, like even when you're talking 137 00:06:38,399 --> 00:06:41,560 about how valuable the open space is so to speak, 138 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,480 we very rarely just see like player, like a top 139 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,800 what forty player was just sent basically for cap space, 140 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,480 and like that just doesn't happen anyway, So I don't 141 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,199 think it needs to impact them too much. But at 142 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:56,040 the same time, like if you're starting to get itchy 143 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,920 or you've view next summer as kind of that inflection 144 00:06:57,959 --> 00:06:59,639 point where if the number five pick doesn't pan out, 145 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,600 like we really and he hit the turbo button elsewhere. 146 00:07:01,959 --> 00:07:04,920 That's where that becomes super valuable. So I think it's 147 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,439 I really don't I'm repeating myself. I don't think it 148 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,040 impacts that this offseason too much. Aside, and by the way, 149 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:13,839 there are just so few long term deals on the 150 00:07:13,839 --> 00:07:15,959 books that it's just like them thinking someone with two 151 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,279 more seasons we're not going to take. That list is 152 00:07:18,279 --> 00:07:20,279 so short. But like a Bradney Beal is an example, 153 00:07:20,279 --> 00:07:21,800 if he was ever to wave his no trade clause 154 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,560 to go to Utah, they probably don't want that really 155 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,240 big ass expiring contract on the books either, because those 156 00:07:27,279 --> 00:07:29,399 can be we look at them as like these really 157 00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:31,920 awesome trade chips. It's like, no, like fifty plus million 158 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,879 dollars is actually pretty hard to move in. 159 00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: A trade increase, and it's only getting harder. I think 160 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:37,160 that's right. 161 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: We will get to needs and targets as always, but 162 00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:43,480 I think we should begin with the extension eligibility of 163 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,680 Walker Kessler. This is just for reference. He's not getting 164 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,040 the max, but a four year rookie max would be 165 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,360 four years and one hundred and ninety point five million, 166 00:07:51,839 --> 00:07:53,920 or five years and two hundred and forty six point 167 00:07:53,959 --> 00:07:57,240 seven million. I feel fairly confident in saying he is 168 00:07:57,279 --> 00:08:01,720 going to sign for neither of those values. But grant 169 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,399 how much is he worth? And is he worth more 170 00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:08,439 to the Jazz given their current situation where this is 171 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,120 a player who is he's valuable. He can be the 172 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,000 base of your of a defense. It'd be nice to 173 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,319 see better talent in front of him he show. I mean, 174 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,199 he did take threes last year. He shot like fifty 175 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:20,680 four percent from floida range as well. Like, how like, 176 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,079 if you're the Jazz, what are you doing here? 177 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: Is he more? 178 00:08:22,639 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: Is it better? Because if you extend him, you're probably 179 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,240 not gonna trade him then, so is it better to 180 00:08:27,399 --> 00:08:29,439 just extend him? And if so, like, what's the number 181 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:30,959 that would get you? Yeah, we have to pounce on 182 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,840 this or is it better to like, just as an example, 183 00:08:34,279 --> 00:08:36,000 does it make more sense to hold that? Like if 184 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,679 the Lakers came with the Mark Williams special and said, 185 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,360 here's Dalton connect a twenty thirty swap and our twenty 186 00:08:41,399 --> 00:08:44,639 thirty one first for Walker Kessler? Are you turning that down? 187 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: I mean I would think pretty hard about that if 188 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,200 I'm Utah, partly because of the extension and how difficult 189 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,879 it is to figure out. He's a really dangerous player 190 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:03,600 type to extend because he is a non stretch, non 191 00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:08,320 switch big I know, I know, like you, certainly those 192 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,000 guys have more utility than they did like three four 193 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:12,720 years ago when it was like, oh, you can't play 194 00:09:12,799 --> 00:09:15,559 that guy. It's unless he's Rudy Gobert. There's just it's untenable. 195 00:09:16,399 --> 00:09:19,399 But like my first thought was, like, I don't know, 196 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,679 are we talking like yaka parole money maybe like this, 197 00:09:22,919 --> 00:09:26,039 I you know, do you go over one hundred for 198 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:30,399 four years? Like that seems crazy? But then Kessler also, 199 00:09:30,519 --> 00:09:32,399 like your list going down the list of like who 200 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,000 are their corners, Like he's I think he's their best 201 00:09:35,039 --> 00:09:37,559 young player, like by a pretty considerable margin, or at 202 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,039 least the most established of their young guys, not not 203 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,519 including market In in that group. He's he's like in 204 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,639 the middle of his career at this point. So like 205 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,639 it would be easy enough for the Jazz to say, like, yeah, 206 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:51,840 we'll do four for one forty Like that's I don't 207 00:09:51,879 --> 00:09:54,120 know that that look how far below is Max? That 208 00:09:54,279 --> 00:09:57,639 is right, He's been one of the most productive players 209 00:09:57,639 --> 00:10:01,159 of his rookie rookie class, like you could justify that. 210 00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:03,679 I would feel very uncomfortable with that, just because I 211 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,639 think he's he's maybe not quite good enough to be 212 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,919 like he's he's the reason We'll just have a top 213 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,240 five defense forever, Like he's not that level, And then like, 214 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,039 what is he doing for a team that's this bad 215 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,519 and this young and has this few like projectable really 216 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:23,159 good players, Like if you were if the Jazz had 217 00:10:23,159 --> 00:10:26,480 like sniffed the playoffs last year because their defense was awesome. Maybe, 218 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,919 but right now it's like, I think four for one 219 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,200 hundred is I don't know how you could go much 220 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:31,840 above that. 221 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: Right, And so I would say this is that I 222 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,000 probably would think because as you mentioned, like the max 223 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,240 for rookies is twenty five percent coming off the rookie scale, 224 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:42,840 it is twenty five percent of salary cap. So when 225 00:10:42,879 --> 00:10:45,360 you were just lowering it four for one forty, you've 226 00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:48,000 like basically slashed that to twenty percent of the salary 227 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,759 cap or less. And that's first starting center, which I 228 00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:53,759 believe that Walker Kesler is. That's not the end of 229 00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:55,559 the world. I don't know if you call great value. 230 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,200 That's a number maybe I'm thinking about. But if I'm 231 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,559 the Jazz, and this goes for all teams. And I'm 232 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,200 not saying I'm pro corporation here, but just the way 233 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,000 that the rules are set up, I don't understand why, 234 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,279 especially for like the non superstars, just take it to 235 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,440 restricted free agency. We just don't see offer sheets given out. 236 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:15,600 The Jazz were actually the last one to give out 237 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,399 an RFA offer sheet for Paul Reid. It was Paul 238 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:19,919 It was Paul Reid grant. 239 00:11:19,879 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: And wasn't that like weirdly like uh right tweet if 240 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,240 the Philly yeah screwed the Sixers. 241 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was just it ended up not even 242 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,840 guaranteeing anyway. So I just I'm taking it to restricted 243 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,600 free agency almost no matter what. Now, Okay, if he's like, 244 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,320 I will sign for four for eighty, yeah, I think 245 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,399 you were even four for one hundred, you probably have 246 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:45,360 to do it because like twenty five million dollars moving 247 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,919 forward to the salary cap is like what fifteen percent 248 00:11:49,399 --> 00:11:53,200 or close to it, So like, I think you have 249 00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:55,360 to do that. But if he's gonna maybe he wants 250 00:11:55,399 --> 00:11:58,360 to roll the dice too, then you just wait, because 251 00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:00,879 what's the harm. Who is is some one who's gonna 252 00:12:00,879 --> 00:12:03,639 have cap space nextually coming in and like tying up 253 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,080 their flexibility and all their cap space and Walker Kessler. No, 254 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,799 that's not what's happening. Yeah, and so it does leave 255 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,840 the am I doing the Lakers trade. Yeah, I don't think. 256 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,240 I don't want to say I don't think he's an 257 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,320 NBA player, but like the Dalton Connects stuff is just 258 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,360 I view him as like a second round flyer. I 259 00:12:19,399 --> 00:12:24,320 don't view him as his first round prospect level. I'm 260 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:28,000 thinking about it. I like, what if there's no protections 261 00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:29,960 on that first then it basically there can't be if 262 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,559 you want it to convey I probably do it, but 263 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,519 like Lucas on this team now, so it's not the 264 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,679 Lebron timeline. I think you need to factor that in. 265 00:12:36,759 --> 00:12:39,399 But I'm probably doing it just because I look at 266 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:40,840 it now and say, well, maybe I don't want to 267 00:12:40,879 --> 00:12:43,360 pay Walker Kesler fifteen to twenty percent of the salary 268 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,080 cap moving forward because I don't think I'm gonna be 269 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:45,559 good enough. 270 00:12:45,879 --> 00:12:49,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think the reluctance to pay Kessler. 271 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,159 I think for the Jazz to me has as much 272 00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:54,120 to do with the quality of the team and like 273 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:57,440 where they are in their competitive trajectory. It has more 274 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,039 to do with that than with like how good he 275 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,039 actually is if that makes sense, Like for them, it 276 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:03,960 doesn't make sense to have one hundred million dollars center 277 00:13:04,039 --> 00:13:05,799 right now like that. I just don't. 278 00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:06,039 Speaker 1: I don't. 279 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 2: It doesn't make it. I don't get it. 280 00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: Would you trade him to the Knicks for the money? 281 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,919 Could work easily, but you get both of their swaps 282 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,559 in twenty thirty and twenty thirty two, and if they'll 283 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,279 give you, like you could have Colic or Dottie and 284 00:13:19,279 --> 00:13:21,600 that Wizard's pick which is gonna be two seconds, you 285 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:22,840 would do so. Yeah. 286 00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: Well, like again, like, what's what is Kessler getting you 287 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,159 right now? As the Jazz, I'd rather just have I'd 288 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,720 rather just try to short the future of more teams. 289 00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:33,679 That's why the Lakers thing is compelling to me too, 290 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,960 even though they have Luca. It's just like, I don't know, 291 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,799 you got control of so much control of Cleveland and 292 00:13:38,799 --> 00:13:40,879 Minnesota and you could just throw another team in there 293 00:13:40,879 --> 00:13:42,799 and somebody's gonna suck. So one of these is gonna 294 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:43,399 pay off. 295 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: Lowry marketing grant. People want to know if he's gonna 296 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,320 get traded, do you want to take us through some 297 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:49,960 stuff on him. 298 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the question is what is his value? And 299 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,639 that's become harder because he's kind of slipped in from 300 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,279 his all star level of a couple of years ago 301 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,679 and has not been playing very much. Now with Austin 302 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,639 Ainge in charge, I'm sure he's gonna play all eighty 303 00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:05,759 two games, if only to avoid one hundred thousand dollars fines. 304 00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:09,600 But he is still on the books, well, not still 305 00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:12,480 thanks to the deal last summer, is on the books 306 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,080 for one ninety one hundred ninety five point nine million 307 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,960 over the next four years. Easy for me to say, 308 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,600 which takes him through this surprised me through his age 309 00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:24,200 thirty one season. Lari Markinin is not young anymore, he's 310 00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:28,200 twenty seven. Can he improve his trade value this season? 311 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,919 I think a lot of that would depend on how 312 00:14:29,919 --> 00:14:31,919 good Utah is and how much he's going to play. 313 00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:34,360 Do they have the infrastructure to set him up for success. 314 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,240 That would probably include like quality point guards. They have 315 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,799 a couple prospects on that front. They're both iffy and 316 00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,519 call you're in Kyante, George. Now, if the offers aren't great, 317 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:46,799 do you just keep him? He's not hurting the rebuild 318 00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:49,519 because a big guy that can shoot on the move 319 00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:52,200 just opens the offense up and maybe that helps your 320 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,639 young guards play better. That space is the floor for us, 321 00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:57,639 so your bigs have more room to operate inside, Like 322 00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:02,600 is a value add But if you're the Jazz, are 323 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,799 you just kind of looking around at like where we 324 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,679 are and ask if this was the same question that 325 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:09,960 we talked about last summer when he was up for 326 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,679 an extension slash potentially being traded. It's like, what use 327 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,960 do we really have for this guy that's clearly like 328 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,320 not remotely in our timeline, Like and do what do 329 00:15:19,399 --> 00:15:22,360 we risk by not trading him? Like will his value 330 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:24,440 go up? Will it go down? Like? 331 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:24,559 Speaker 1: What? 332 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,759 Speaker 2: So the pieces don't He doesn't fit here really in 333 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,759 terms of like the age bracket. But but he helps 334 00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:35,039 he helps other guys look better. So are you trading him? 335 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:37,120 Like what's that return need to look like for you? 336 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:38,279 Speaker 1: Do you? 337 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: Wait? You know, see if he ups his value with 338 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,600 another All Star season? I don't know. 339 00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:46,879 Speaker 1: I don't think you. So Here's my thing is that 340 00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:49,399 I've seen people frame it. It's like you should just 341 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,679 move him because he doesn't make sense here. That's not 342 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,000 why you move a player if he was winning you 343 00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:56,559 too many basketball games even when he was playing, that's 344 00:15:56,639 --> 00:15:59,679 one thing he was not, and so you're trading him. 345 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,639 You're the Jazz. We went over this at the top. 346 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,039 You have eleven first round picks coming to you over 347 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,679 the next like, you have extra first round picks, unless 348 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,960 those picks are gonna be super high end, And because 349 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,639 you don't kind of have a cornerstone right now, you 350 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,120 might not actually be as interested in the like if 351 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:17,320 the Miami Heat just came calling as an example, it says, 352 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:20,000 here's how my Hawks will give you the two distant 353 00:16:20,039 --> 00:16:21,919 first round picks that we could like twenty thirty and 354 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,279 twenty thirty two or twenty nine twenty thirty one. I 355 00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:28,159 don't know if that's enough, just because if I'm Utah, 356 00:16:28,279 --> 00:16:29,960 I need kind of more. And maybe you're super high 357 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,440 on how my hawk is. I don't know. So I'm 358 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,440 looking at it as unless it's at like, unless the 359 00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:37,159 team is gonna you're not getting what the Nets got 360 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:39,440 for mikel Bridge. That's not happening because the lowry marketing 361 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:41,919 is contract. I do think it's lower his value even 362 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,799 had he played well, there's value in having him under contract. 363 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:47,679 But at this number, he's no longer this super net positive. 364 00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:52,279 But like, because he's not harming the rebuild, I don't like, 365 00:16:52,559 --> 00:16:54,720 unless the offers are gonna bowl you over, this is 366 00:16:54,759 --> 00:16:56,399 you don't have to move him because you know what 367 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,960 if his value gets even lower, do you know what happens, Grant? No, 368 00:17:00,879 --> 00:17:03,879 how has that hurt Utah? Like it's at some point 369 00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:06,880 it's now his deal is only gonna have fewer years 370 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,440 left on it, So by the time you're ready to contend, 371 00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:12,480 he's either gonna have what two years are being expiring contract. 372 00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:14,480 So even if he's like the worst basketball player in 373 00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:17,640 the NBA, he's not immovable. And like spoiler alert, the 374 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,480 Jazz aren't gonna be contenders next season, and if they are, 375 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,640 it's not gonna because in spite of Larry market In 376 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:29,279 either because yeah, so I don't understand the I understand 377 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:30,839 why people look at this because they want to see 378 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,480 him on a good team and think good team should 379 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,680 make an offer. I don't think the offers are gonna 380 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,559 be commeasure it with like not even what he's necessarily 381 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:41,880 worse to Utah, but just like with the value proposition 382 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,559 of well, let's just like that guy can at least play, 383 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,880 and if you're looking at these deals, you're getting picks 384 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,279 from probably teams that will be better, and then are 385 00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:52,480 you getting salary they don't want? So I don't think 386 00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:55,240 they I'm not outright opposed to moving him. Again, if 387 00:17:55,279 --> 00:17:58,359 someone just comes with an offer that you can't refuse, yeah, 388 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,680 do it? Like if hughs came calling because Houston created 389 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,559 its own trade market and was like, we'll give you 390 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:08,000 Jabari Smith number ten other stuff for Larry Marketing. Sure, 391 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,279 like yeah, you absolutely have to listen. But like if 392 00:18:11,279 --> 00:18:13,559 you're just getting two first round picks in salary, no, 393 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,039 I don't think you move Larry Marketing. 394 00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 2: Now what what do you what do you think about 395 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,960 the idea that like, he does play really well and 396 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,079 he does hurt the tank, so you know what I mean, 397 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,079 Like you say he's not hurting the tank? Like what if? 398 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,359 What if he's the reason? 399 00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:28,559 Speaker 1: I mean this is that you trade before, but then 400 00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:30,960 you trade him for the real value that you want. 401 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,440 And it's like you you have the leverage of saying 402 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,319 we'll just shut him down and take a couple million 403 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,519 dollars worth of fines for the last like fifty games 404 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:39,880 in the season wherever it is. So I don't like 405 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,240 that is an easier problem to solve than like looking 406 00:18:43,319 --> 00:18:45,680 back and just saying like we traded Larry market In 407 00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:48,880 for the number twenty seven and number twenty one picks 408 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,039 in like alternating drafts or something. 409 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see, I could see the lot, 410 00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:56,559 Like if you have to trade him because he's hurting 411 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,000 the tank, then that's a great problem because his value 412 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:01,720 is high all of a sudden. 413 00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: And it's just I don't think you're in a position 414 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,720 to where even if this contract ages poorly that it 415 00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:09,079 hurts what vision you're on. That hurts you if you 416 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,640 need to be a contender right away, which the Jazz 417 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,359 and this is putting it charitably, or at least two 418 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,799 years away, in which case you can already see the 419 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,119 horizon at the end of the Larry Marketing deal at 420 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:21,799 that point, if it. 421 00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: Like he's you saying like, well, he's not gonna hurt it, 422 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,359 He's not gonna hurt the tank. In two years, it's like, well, 423 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,240 when he's retired, the Jazz will be ready to contend, 424 00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:33,640 Like at some point, like in the mid twenty thirties, 425 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,079 I guess like you really won't be an issue. It 426 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,039 feels that far off. 427 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:40,079 Speaker 1: Honestly, do you know what's a more fascinating conversation to me? 428 00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:41,200 And I guess this would be a good time to 429 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,880 pivot to kind of like well, what do they need? 430 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,240 What is the targets? What if you try to use 431 00:19:46,279 --> 00:19:48,839 Larry market and to accelerate your position of getting a 432 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,319 cornerstone to where you recognize you're not a contender, But 433 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,119 is there just something to that? Whereas I think preferably 434 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,240 you would use you have com sexts in Jordan Clarkson, John, 435 00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,319 you have all this expiring money, you have some prospects, 436 00:19:59,319 --> 00:20:00,960 teams might be interest it in. You have all this 437 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:04,200 extra first round equity, but you also have lowry marketing 438 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,519 like that depending on what the team is that's sending you, 439 00:20:06,599 --> 00:20:08,640 who that's sending you, what like that might be of 440 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,240 interest to them. But I want to ask you, though, 441 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,599 this goes back to the Austin Age comments, like do 442 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,519 you agree though that they were kind of being overblown? 443 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,920 First of all, the whole work like we don't do 444 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,759 that here anymore when it comes to decade. 445 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 2: I think that's the way people wanted to take it. 446 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,920 But I agree with you that it was more like, well, one, 447 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,400 it's like we're trying not to get fined, so we're 448 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,240 gonna say up front that, oh no, no, we will 449 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,640 not do you know, no Shenanigans here. But yeah, I 450 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,920 think the way I took it was like the way 451 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,119 the way I interpreted it cynically was like, yeah, of 452 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,720 course you're not gonna do that because you're just gonna 453 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,440 be really bad organically and you're not gonna need to 454 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,400 pull a bunch of you know, shifty moves to be 455 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,680 bad and he but he can't say that. It is 456 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,000 like half half projection of like we're turning it around 457 00:20:58,039 --> 00:21:01,039 and half like acknowledgment of like we're bad, then we 458 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,960 that's just where we are. I don't know. 459 00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: So I think we could talk about like actual archetypes 460 00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:08,519 or like needs to fill. But their biggest need is 461 00:21:08,839 --> 00:21:11,880 it's a cliche, but like it's important and it's really 462 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,480 important for them because we're three seasons into the rebuild. 463 00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:18,680 They need that tempole cornerstone. And so I want to 464 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,039 ask you, if you're Utah, how aggressive are you this offseason? 465 00:21:23,279 --> 00:21:25,480 And I'll like just to add a layer to it, 466 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:27,799 is it we have number five? Maybe we could look 467 00:21:27,839 --> 00:21:29,839 at moving up in the draft a little bit. Can 468 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,359 we get into the top could we? I mean, it 469 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,559 seems like the Spurs might be shopping number two as 470 00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:35,839 we're recording this, or be willing to move it. Is 471 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,960 it something like that? Are you? Is it just no, 472 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,480 We'll use number five and like that. Hopefully that pans out. 473 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,480 If not, we'll continue to remain patient, build try to 474 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,160 build through the draft. Or is there like could you 475 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,599 talk yourself into identifying the right player and saying, like 476 00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:52,279 what if it's Jahn Morant, what if it's Tree Young, 477 00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:54,240 what if it's LaMelo Ball? Do you go out and 478 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,160 try and accelerate your position by saying, no, we're not 479 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,720 trying to contend next year, we're not mortgaging, but we 480 00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:03,200 believe we can get somebody who's maybe a little maybe 481 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,000 on the lowry marketing timeline. But that gives us sort 482 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,799 of a guiding force to move forward with, like what 483 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,920 is your you're running the jazz, how are you approaching that? 484 00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 2: So I had not really ever considered option two of like, 485 00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:20,519 let's go get a second veteran star. We have marketing, 486 00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:24,319 we have Kesseler. Let's see where that gets us. And 487 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,079 I guess. I guess I shy away from that because 488 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,559 of how far away I think they are, even with 489 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,759 those other guys I just mentioned. So I still think 490 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,640 I'm playing it just sort of buy the rebuild book 491 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,960 of let's let's lose, let's collect young players and picks, 492 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,640 and hopefully this this number five pans out. If you 493 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,799 could trade up to two, I'd be very interested. Other 494 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,559 than that, like, I don't the difference between three and 495 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,119 like twelve, to me is like you read a lot 496 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,119 of draft write ups, it's like, I don't know, like 497 00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:01,319 it's it doesn't seem like there's a there's no consensus 498 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:05,240 there that there's like a clear you know, advantage to 499 00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:09,400 being third versus fourth, versus fifth versus eighth or whatever. 500 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,759 Speaker 1: You would just have to say, we're in love with VJ. 501 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,880 Edgecomb or like that's what you would need just to think. 502 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, which even even that would be somewhat encouraging, because 503 00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:20,599 it's like, Okay, they found a guy they really like, 504 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,880 maybe this is the one. Maybe they're right about this. 505 00:23:23,839 --> 00:23:26,839 Yeah it's boring, but I I think I just play 506 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,599 it straight and I just wait, I continue to wait. 507 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,880 Like they ran into bad luck. They ran into bad 508 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,400 luck really like they were too good for a couple 509 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,039 of first halves might have cost them women Yama like, 510 00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:40,519 we're just you know, like that's you can't let that 511 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,920 just short circuit the whole plan. I don't think. Maybe, 512 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,599 like because the names you mentioned like Jah Moran or whoever, 513 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,880 Like what's how good are you? Are you good enough? 514 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,359 Like I guess if you don't have to give up 515 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,440 too many of those picks you have in that giant 516 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,119 surplus for that, there's that could be compelling, especially if 517 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,480 your jazz fan that wants to watch a team that's competitive. 518 00:24:03,559 --> 00:24:06,319 I get it, but I think I'm just slow playing it. 519 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: Still, what about you, honestly, because if it was like 520 00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,920 LaMelo Ball, where it's just someone who's super young or 521 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,079 kind of early into that rookie extension, Like is there 522 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,720 a I don't think they are. And actually got trolled 523 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,880 for one of my hottest like Blazer's takes on social 524 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,920 media the other day. But like if the Blazers were 525 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,559 open and just talking about Scoot Henderson, I think he's 526 00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:28,880 gonna be better than any of the guards Isaiah Collier or 527 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,000 Keante George they have in place. Yeah, right now, he's 528 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,079 already better than them. Quite frankly to me, I know 529 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,039 Collier or the passing whatever, I'm more open to it 530 00:24:36,079 --> 00:24:38,680 than I think you are. But I don't think that 531 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,400 that's like you go into this offseas and like, no, 532 00:24:40,599 --> 00:24:42,400 that's what we have to do. I would be more 533 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,920 inclined of saying, like, would you do this as an example, 534 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,640 John Collins, and let's say Colin Sexton and number five 535 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,359 for Paul George in number three. 536 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,599 Speaker 2: Hmmm, I don't think I want that Paul George contract. 537 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,319 I think that's a good illustration though, of how it's generally. 538 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,160 I don't want to I don't want to take a swing. 539 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,640 But what I guess, what I really mean, more precisely 540 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,680 is like it's got to tell me the guy like 541 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:14,079 it's got certain guys, Yeah, like you LaMelo is a 542 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:16,480 great example. I think you do if you can get 543 00:25:16,519 --> 00:25:17,880 LaMelo for Garland. 544 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,799 Speaker 1: If I don't know why, by the way, we're gonna 545 00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,640 mention this like probably I don't know why there's reporting 546 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,519 that Cleveland would consider a move that just seems like 547 00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:25,759 such a boneheaded move. 548 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: But you can't get better by trading Darius Garland. I 549 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,559 don't think yeah, no, yeah, like LaMelo, Sure, Garland, Sure, Moran, 550 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,240 I don't know, just run down the list of like 551 00:25:36,319 --> 00:25:39,000 young Scoot that you have my you have my interest. 552 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,759 But yeah, like it would have to be pretty specific 553 00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:45,559 and none come to mind as obvious and like and 554 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,839 also like gettable, you know what about like here's it? 555 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: What about you? Alan Brown? 556 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,519 Speaker 2: So you're built around Brown, Kessler Marking in and whatever, 557 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:04,240 like young guys main you want that Brown contract? You sure? 558 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm just asking questions, grant asking questions of you. I don't. 559 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,279 I mean, it depends on the cost. But if it's 560 00:26:13,319 --> 00:26:17,960 like number five and salary, and I guess I I 561 00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:20,160 don't hate it because you have all this other stuff 562 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,440 left over. But the idea of paying Larry Marketing and 563 00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:25,480 Jaalen Brown one hundred million dollars combined is just like 564 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,440 we're not even sure we have our best player like 565 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,119 that you can consider that'd be awkward. But John Brown, Walker, 566 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,279 Kestl and Larry market is a heck of a front line. 567 00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 2: It's it's pretty good. Yeah, then then the onus is 568 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,680 really on the Jazz to final a point guard. 569 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: They tried what about two other names? We're just sticking 570 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,920 with Grizzlies. Would you like Jaron Jackson Junior or Desmond Baine. 571 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,160 Do those two do anything for you? 572 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 2: Jackson more than bain just because the him and marketing together, 573 00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:54,039 I really like up front would be would be pretty 574 00:26:54,079 --> 00:27:00,400 interesting offensively. I don't know if Jackson is like right 575 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,799 on the borderline of young enough to to like for 576 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,720 me to be excited about that. Yeah, I don't know. 577 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,880 I I Baine know, I don't. I don't think. I 578 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,519 think bain Is has proved he's like a third guy 579 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,400 on a team that is, you know, dangerous, but not 580 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,240 a real contending threat. So that that's probably that's the 581 00:27:19,319 --> 00:27:21,839 kind of guy you The bain the Baine classic player 582 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,119 at that pay raade is one I think you want 583 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,400 to avoid, right Like you need someone either younger and 584 00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:30,400 hope and or better. I think if you're if you're 585 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,559 taking the swing. 586 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: Would you do that? And I feel like they the 587 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,319 Jazz probably have close to like choose your own adventure 588 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,960 trade assets, right, like create your own market. Yeah, what 589 00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:43,279 if you just went and you were able to keep 590 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,400 lowry market as part of the process, and you went 591 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,960 to the heat and we're able to get Bam out 592 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:47,319 of Bio. 593 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,799 Speaker 2: I'm now I'm now I'm on board because he transforms 594 00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:52,640 a whole end of the floor for you, and that now, 595 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,400 like you could some things become possible with someone like Bam. 596 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think of like and he's like 597 00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,960 older too, Like he's closer to thirty than he is 598 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:04,720 to twenty three. Right, So yeah, I don't what about 599 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:07,039 Doma Sabonis. 600 00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 2: Sa Bonus and marketing together, you're not guarding anybody. I mean, 601 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:16,640 he would help with the like, if you're not sure 602 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,400 about your point guards, you can run a lot through Sabonis. 603 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,319 I I don't think it would be very on brand 604 00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:25,599 for me though, to suggest that the jet shouldet Sibonis. 605 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm assuming you're anti Tree Young for this team. I 606 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,839 would agree with you, by the way. 607 00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:32,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's a closer question than you might think, 608 00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:34,400 just because then you haven't. 609 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: You're also wondering, like what it cost basically almost nothing 610 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,640 to get not nothing, but it's like, oh, not the 611 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,440 number five pick, but it's like first rounders and expiring 612 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,599 contracts like that. Right, Yeah, that's a composition. 613 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,119 Speaker 2: Wondering what you were gonna have Boston send with Jalen 614 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,960 Brown to get him to the jest just because. 615 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: That Peyton Pritchard, Like what what I mean? What about? Why? 616 00:28:56,759 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 2: Why Peyton Prichard? 617 00:28:58,319 --> 00:28:59,599 Speaker 1: I was just you're asking for now, who do you 618 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,519 want them? You want them to get Drew Holiday too? 619 00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:04,559 Speaker 2: Like that's like saying, you suggest you've just suggested multiple 620 00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:06,200 white guys for the Jazz. 621 00:29:07,079 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: Well I'm about to suggest Am I about to suggest 622 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,119 another white guy? No? Not, Uh, I'm just would you 623 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,359 do it for Anthony Davis? 624 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:16,559 Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. 625 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: If he said I'll stay, I'll sorry my next deal here? Well? 626 00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: Was Walker Kessler? Gone? No? Walker because Ad is not center? Right? Uh, 627 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,759 that's a fun front line. If Kessler Davis Markinen gotta 628 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:33,279 be you love the three seven footers up there, that's 629 00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:36,359 kind of fun. I'm not against that. 630 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,759 Speaker 1: I don't think that team. I have no idea. Would 631 00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:42,599 you go would they be a Jamal Murray team if 632 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:43,319 he was available? 633 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 2: Oh? Man, No, I don't think that that contract and 634 00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:48,759 he's he's too old. 635 00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:50,799 Speaker 1: I think the point of this exercise is how hard 636 00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:52,880 it is to find someone who's like the exact right 637 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,920 fit for the Jazz to hit the turbo button. They're like, 638 00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:57,400 there's to use the nuggets as like the example is 639 00:29:57,519 --> 00:29:59,240 just it would make more sense for you Utah to 640 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,759 try and swoop in pick up Michael Porter Junior as 641 00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:03,440 part of a larger move for the Nuggets and get 642 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,000 compensated for doing so. Then it would be for them 643 00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:07,759 to go all out for Jamalmurray. There's a couple of 644 00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:10,400 names where I think it would work, But like when 645 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,160 we name some of those guys, LaMelo Ball is an example, 646 00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:15,039 the Hornets. Unless you're getting the kind of the same 647 00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:17,240 thing with Larry Market and this hole, they should just 648 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,279 trade LaMelo and rebuild around Brandon Miller and the number 649 00:30:20,279 --> 00:30:22,519 four pick. Okay, great, you don't just do that just 650 00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:24,759 because like you need to be bowled over by an offer. 651 00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:26,720 And so if he gets traded to the Jazz, I'm 652 00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:29,599 kind of like, all right, well, what did they give 653 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,359 up to get him? Like was it seven first round picks? 654 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,480 Or what did we not find out about LaMelo Ball? Right, 655 00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:37,759 he's like a human trafficker or something on the side, Like, I. 656 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: Don't know, there's two options, and neither of them is great. Yeah, no, 657 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,640 it is really hard and even you know some of 658 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,200 the some of the stuff you you're thrown out there 659 00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:50,359 is like, yeah, even that feels like a slow more 660 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,920 of a slow, deliberate play as opposed to like, Okay, 661 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,480 we got this guy and now we're hey, we could 662 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,880 finish sixth in the in the West. Like no, it's 663 00:30:58,119 --> 00:31:01,240 there's no magic, there's no silver bullet here. It's just 664 00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:04,400 even if even if you take the ambitious course of 665 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,440 like let's go get talent, it's still like we still 666 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,720 need to draft and develop around that to have like 667 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,480 any kind of like playoff aspirations. 668 00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: And to wrap up, I don't like getting into the 669 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,240 biggest needs with this team because I actually don't think 670 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,440 Walker Kestler is the closest they come. And I know 671 00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:23,599 they have a billion fours, including Larry Marketing. There's no 672 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,960 position or archetype that you just say there's no one 673 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,039 good enough on this roster, turn down anything. But if 674 00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:30,839 we're talking free agency, if they're at a point in 675 00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:32,440 the draft where they want to take a flyer on 676 00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:36,279 your selecting for need, they need wings, like they still 677 00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:38,039 just they they have a shit ton of what feel 678 00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:39,920 like pure fours at the moment. 679 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,519 Speaker 2: It is hardly right. 680 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: So and like they even I think you could also like, yes, 681 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,440 they need a ten poll first, and like do they 682 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,839 even have a floor general, Is it Collier? Is it George? 683 00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: Like? 684 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: Do they have enough there? I just like there's Cody Willing, Like, 685 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,920 who are the wings on this team? Cody Williams. And 686 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,599 I don't think I'm not put sense of bas more 687 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,599 of like a guard or a swing man. And Keny 688 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,519 Martin Junior is not a wing. Larry Markin is not 689 00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:06,279 a wing. It's I mean, Johnny Juzg is probably like 690 00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:08,640 Jayden Springer, So yeah, it would be if I had 691 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,039 to distilled down, it'd be wings. But they're to me, 692 00:32:11,079 --> 00:32:14,240 they're very much in talent accumulation mode. And I we 693 00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:15,960 haven't mentioned him once, and I feel like I'm obligated 694 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,359 to do PSOB because I think he could be better 695 00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:19,720 than Jaron Jackson Junior one day. I will not give 696 00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,559 up on Taylor Hendrix. Healthy. Taylor Hendrix is coming. Everybody. 697 00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:24,799 You heard it here, probably not first, but you heard 698 00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:25,119 it here. 699 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,279 Speaker 2: You heard it here again because we have talked up 700 00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:31,759 Taylor Hendricks. Yeah, no, I agree, it's just to wrap 701 00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:35,240 it like this team more than almost We've talked about 702 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,440 plenty of rebuilders, but like just to compare it like Washington, Well, okay, 703 00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:42,799 they maybe bub Carrington's something at the guard, maybe coolbal 704 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,319 Is something on the wing, and maybe Alex SR or 705 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:47,559 something in the middle. It's just like the Jazz just 706 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,599 don't It's just they just need someone that you can 707 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,039 look at and be like maybe he's the one, you know, 708 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,839 like that. They just don't have that guy, and until 709 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,400 they get him, it's gonna be justler available at all times. 710 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: Really go into this, like you can't know, like what 711 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,000 would need to happen in summer League with whoever they 712 00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:07,119 drafted number five to feel like you know that that's 713 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,519 gonna be the guy. 714 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,359 Speaker 2: H Yeah, I mean what you don't want is for 715 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,319 it to be like a Cody Williams situation where it's 716 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:17,799 clear like pretty quick, like oh no, like that that's 717 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,359 there's a long way to go for someone like that. 718 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,359 But yeah, well we didn't look. 719 00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm sorry we didn't mention this and we should have, 720 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,079 Like would you use lowry marketing to move up to 721 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,480 number two or is that like too much to get? 722 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:31,680 Like if it was number five and lowry marketing for 723 00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:34,559 number two, I don't know if the Spurs even want 724 00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:37,079 that salary when they're thinking about, Okay, we have Fox 725 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:39,160 and then Wemby in a couple of years. But they're 726 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,279 pretty they could be pretty flexible, like for the next 727 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,759 like they don't have to worry about finances probably until 728 00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:48,680 the third like with I don't know two years from 729 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:49,680 now at minimum. 730 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,039 Speaker 2: I think if if what you hear and read about 731 00:33:55,079 --> 00:33:58,519 and have seen from Dylan Harper, if you think that's real, 732 00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:00,720 if you think it is like, oh, he might really 733 00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:03,759 have like some all NBA ceiling or like several like 734 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,880 all Star games, Like I think you we've just said 735 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,039 they don't have the guy, and if there's a chance 736 00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:12,599 he's the guy, then I think you do trade whatever 737 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,480 you got to get to get him, because then it 738 00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:17,519 just organizes your whole thing. It's like you you then 739 00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:20,639 have more direction on Okay, what do we need now 740 00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:24,159 to support him? Since he's the one you know? Like that, 741 00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:27,719 that just there's added value in just having a kind 742 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,559 He gives you a direction. When you get the guy 743 00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,360 in there, that's the cornerstone, that's what you build on 744 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,599 top of and around like that. The Jazz don't have that, 745 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,840 So yeah, I think you should be willing to make 746 00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:39,880 pretty wild ass trades for that. 747 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: Why isn't has that been one that's floated around that. No, 748 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,000 I feel like that has a that's weird. Maybe it's 749 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,920 because people view fire markets deals underwater, Like could the 750 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,880 Jazz Spurs just say, why are we moving down to 751 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,280 take on that cont could be like a reasonable response, 752 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,320 So if you're including something else, But I haven't seen 753 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,440 that floated anywhere. But yeah, if I'm Utah, it's one 754 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,960 of those things where, oh, that's a risk for the Spurs, 755 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,360 but it feels like a lot for Utah. It's like, 756 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,920 move on just three spots. But I'd probably do it 757 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,519 if I'm Utah, I think. 758 00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah, A lot depends on the perception 759 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,679 of marketing this contract. That's true. Anything else on the 760 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,039 jazz Nope, all right, need a cornerstone, that's and they 761 00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:19,519 should trade. 762 00:35:19,559 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: Laura Mark, you heard it here again, Jazz in a 763 00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:23,079 quarter Zone. 764 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 2: Thanks everybody for listening, for watching, Remember to rate, review, 765 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,840 and subscribe. You're watching this on YouTube, let us know 766 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,320 what your jazz thoughts are. Should they pull off the 767 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,840 Lori market in trade that you've only ever heard here? 768 00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:36,519 Join our discord links for that in YouTube and podcast description. 769 00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:38,599 Please word of mouth help spread spread the word about 770 00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:41,320 this podcast and if you've got a friend with a 771 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,400 favorite team that we've done a look ahead for, let them, 772 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,679 let them know, help us, help us grow the podcast. 773 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,559 We got a few more look aheads to go. This 774 00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:51,840 is a good one. Thank you, Dan, thanks everybody for listening, 775 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,639 for watching. Shouts Ringing the King apologies, Jared Allen