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<v Speaker 1>Or period. Poor poor carrier pigeons. Ask not what.

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<v Speaker 2>Your country can do for you, Ask what you can

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<v Speaker 2>do for your country.

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<v Speaker 3>Mister garbashaw, tear down this wall.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the Ricochet Podcast with Rob Long, John You and

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<v Speaker 2>me James Lylyx. Today we talked to you of all

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<v Speaker 2>eleven about his new book about the Constitution, how it

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<v Speaker 2>unified America once and could do it again. So let's

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<v Speaker 2>have herselves a podcast.

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<v Speaker 4>I've known her a long time, indirectly, not directly very much,

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<v Speaker 4>and she was always of Indian heritage, and she was

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<v Speaker 4>only promoting Indian heritage. I didn't know she was black

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<v Speaker 4>until a number of years ago when she happened to

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<v Speaker 4>turn black, and now she wants to be known as black.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and two.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm James Lylyx in a beautiful summer day in Minneapolis,

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<v Speaker 2>Rob Long in Gotham, presume, and John You is joining

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<v Speaker 2>us from California. Of course, the crucible of sanity in

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<v Speaker 2>the modern world.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure he's going to tell us all about that, gentlemen.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome, Hello, well, hi, James, Johns is right, that's what

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<v Speaker 2>you do sometimes sometimes in radio and broadcasting. We like

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<v Speaker 2>to say the more dead air, the better, But oftentime

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<v Speaker 2>if we like to just kind of jump in there

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<v Speaker 2>with something that just gets the ball rolling. The ball

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<v Speaker 2>now seems to be rolling uphill for Donald Trump, downhill

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<v Speaker 2>for Kamala Harris as she's vaulted to the front of

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<v Speaker 2>the race. She's America's sweetheart and without really anybody taking

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<v Speaker 2>a look at the positions what not that she's had.

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<v Speaker 2>But perhaps over the next couple of months we'll have

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<v Speaker 2>the opportunity to revisit some old clips and see exactly

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not those old positions are still being held.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think it's going to come back to buy?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the New York Times is doing stories essentially saying,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, she makes she made fudge on the stove.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's her seven tricks to keep it from from caramelizing.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's my favorite headline was one of the

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<v Speaker 2>La Times.

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<v Speaker 5>Uh uh, Kamala Harris is a knowledge of l A

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<v Speaker 5>restaurants is large? Will that help her win the presidency?

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<v Speaker 5>So okay, you guys all need to just just take

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<v Speaker 5>a deep breath here and relax.

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<v Speaker 1>I uh it was. It still made me laugh.

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<v Speaker 6>Uh yeah, well, I thought the Times recipe would be

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<v Speaker 6>camealized onions by now.

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<v Speaker 3>Very good, very good.

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<v Speaker 6>I thought I would replace I'm sitting in for Steve Hayward.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, you know, Peter Robinson gets to sit in

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<v Speaker 6>for Steve Hayward. But now I'm sitting in for Steve.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, now that you are sitting in, let's uh, let's

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<v Speaker 2>let's put it to you. Do you think that? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you were there in California. You saw exactly what she

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<v Speaker 2>was able to do for that state. Tell us what

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<v Speaker 2>her what her California record might be, how it might

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<v Speaker 2>be introduced to the rest of the country, what it was.

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<v Speaker 6>I have a piece up this week about her record

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<v Speaker 6>as district attorney attorney general. First, I think people are

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<v Speaker 6>going to see the bad campaigner she was in twenty twenty,

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<v Speaker 6>wants all this you know, happiness, it starts to maybe

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<v Speaker 6>it won't end, but all this happiness in the media

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<v Speaker 6>starts to end. Because I think she's the typical of

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<v Speaker 6>a California politician. We live in a one party state,

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<v Speaker 6>so she's never had to run a tough race before,

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<v Speaker 6>and so I think that's why. I think that explains

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<v Speaker 6>all the malapropism, weird stame a is goofy character because

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<v Speaker 6>if you're Kamala Harris, you've never had to run against

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<v Speaker 6>a tough candidate.

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<v Speaker 3>But the broader.

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<v Speaker 6>Issue is when people start to look at her record.

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<v Speaker 6>I think it's a mistake actually for Democrats to be

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<v Speaker 6>praising her as a prosecutor, because once people see the

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<v Speaker 6>decisions she'd made back here, they're not going to be happy.

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<v Speaker 6>There are some very well known cases in California. For example,

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<v Speaker 6>there was an early in her tenure there was a

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<v Speaker 6>guy who killed a police officer, severely wounded a partner.

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<v Speaker 6>His partner, she would seek the death penalty. Another example

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<v Speaker 6>where there's an illegal alien who is an MS thirteen

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<v Speaker 6>gang member, walked into a communie store, killed the owner,

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<v Speaker 6>shot up the two sons, and she didn't seek the

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<v Speaker 6>death penalty. She had a I think she had a

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<v Speaker 6>very lax attitude towards crime. So all this talk about

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<v Speaker 6>her saying, oh, I know Donald Trump, he's a felon,

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<v Speaker 6>and I know felons, I think that it's inviting the

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<v Speaker 6>wrong kind of scrutiny. Once America's who I worried about crime,

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<v Speaker 6>particularly in California, see the kind of progressive attitude she had.

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<v Speaker 6>Plus then you can get into stuff she dies as senator,

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<v Speaker 6>where she's calling for donations to bond funk bail, fights

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<v Speaker 6>for Black Lives Matter, and so on.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think this is and where where might that

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<v Speaker 3>have been? John, Do you remember?

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<v Speaker 6>I think somewhere up there in the north somewhere I

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<v Speaker 6>know there's like white stuff that's called somewhere where the

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<v Speaker 6>people comes out of the air. It's like water falls

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<v Speaker 6>from the air in solid form, things like.

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<v Speaker 3>This, God's Dandre amazing. Yeah, that was here.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the bailphone with the people who were who

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<v Speaker 2>were burning down the streets and burning down the buildings,

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<v Speaker 2>and she was telling that we need, you.

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<v Speaker 3>Know, basically more of it.

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<v Speaker 2>That the riots shall continue until we have equity spread

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<v Speaker 2>and evil even laer across the land. So yeah, there's that.

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<v Speaker 2>But again again, if all we get is happy warrior

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<v Speaker 2>energy and smiles and no real particular investigation from the media,

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<v Speaker 2>then I think a lot of you know, the vast

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<v Speaker 2>middle that needs to be persuaded, may just say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>she looks like more fun time for a wine on

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<v Speaker 2>for for for a president.

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<v Speaker 3>Why not? And I don't want that crazy old guy.

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<v Speaker 2>So I mean yeah, Now, so Rob, where do you

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<v Speaker 2>think the Trumps, the Trump campaign goes from here?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, they better get it together.

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<v Speaker 5>It should come as no shock that you're not going

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<v Speaker 5>to find for a progressive Democrat, really incredibly aggressive need coverage.

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<v Speaker 5>That should not be surprising to them. They didn't get

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<v Speaker 5>it for under Biden. They're not going to get it

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<v Speaker 5>under when Kamala Harris is running, uh, and they need

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<v Speaker 5>to focus and she's giving them all sorts of openings

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<v Speaker 5>and they just seem to be focusing on a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of stupid stuff at this point. Look, he got on a

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<v Speaker 5>hundred days, less than hundred days, so it's sprint. You

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<v Speaker 5>don't have any time for throat clearing. Everyone in America

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<v Speaker 5>should know about every single one of those cases that

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<v Speaker 5>John just mentioned that they should.

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<v Speaker 1>The nasty term is to Willy Horton.

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<v Speaker 5>But people forget that Willy Horton story was true, that

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<v Speaker 5>he did he was fur.

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<v Speaker 1>Load from prison, and he did commit crimes, to commit murder.

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<v Speaker 5>That the reason that that worked was because there was

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<v Speaker 5>no response from the Democrats and for the candidate then,

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<v Speaker 5>and the most governor of messages is Michael Lucaucus.

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<v Speaker 1>To actually defend the the the process of furlough. He didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>He just ran away from it.

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<v Speaker 5>It is and crystallized the difference between liberal and conservative

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<v Speaker 5>voters for liberal conservtive voters on law and order issues.

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<v Speaker 5>So everyone every time that this sort of like clown

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<v Speaker 5>car of a Trump campaign starts talking about anything other

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<v Speaker 5>than her record, they are wasting time and they have

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<v Speaker 5>very little time left.

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<v Speaker 1>The problem with Trump.

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<v Speaker 5>Is it's integral to the Trump campaign. A lot of

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<v Speaker 5>people don't like him. That is a real problem for him,

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<v Speaker 5>and they know him well, and what he needs to

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<v Speaker 5>do is not remind them about all the reasons they

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<v Speaker 5>have to not like him. They should be reminding them

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<v Speaker 5>of all the reasons they can't in good conscience vote

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<v Speaker 5>for this extremely liberal, extremely progressive alternative. And they see

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<v Speaker 5>me failing at that now, which is surprising to me

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<v Speaker 5>because you know, just go you go back to the debate.

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<v Speaker 1>That debate, everybody focused on Biden.

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<v Speaker 5>I said this at the time, and yeah, you're right,

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<v Speaker 5>it's terrible for Biden, but they forgot that it was

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<v Speaker 5>absolutely terrific for Trump, not just because Biden was a

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<v Speaker 5>dottery old man, but because Trump was controlled. I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>he had a little trumpy near the end, but you know,

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<v Speaker 5>we take our wins and we can find him. But

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<v Speaker 5>he basically held the line. He argued passionately for things

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<v Speaker 5>that he believes in, and he connected with voters. And

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<v Speaker 5>I'm starting to believe that that is the singular moment

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<v Speaker 5>of campaign discipline we're going to get from this candidate

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<v Speaker 5>in that campaign. And if that's the case, it's going

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<v Speaker 5>to be a disappointing election night for him. I suspect,

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<v Speaker 5>and again always the problem to think about it. It's

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<v Speaker 5>a gift, Kamala. Harrison's got to run on a record

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<v Speaker 5>which is not great if you're a moderate or a

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<v Speaker 5>centrist or conservative, which is what most of the country is.

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<v Speaker 5>All Donald Trump has to do is just to stop

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<v Speaker 5>being a jerk and stop reminding us how what a

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<v Speaker 5>jerk Donald Trump is and how tiresome me is. That

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<v Speaker 5>shouldn't be that hard, and yet it seems to be

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<v Speaker 5>a stumbling block for this candidate.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you say that people don't like Trump, that's true,

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<v Speaker 2>but they don't like him for his personality, not necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>his politics, his policy preferences, which can.

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<v Speaker 3>Be you know here there in the other place.

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<v Speaker 2>So do we have a situation then where people say

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<v Speaker 2>I don't like him, therefore I'm going to vote for

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<v Speaker 2>the person who is completely opposed to just about everything

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<v Speaker 2>I happen to believe in, from energy policy to gun

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<v Speaker 2>policy to yeah, aliens getting to illegal aliens getting you know,

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<v Speaker 2>free healthcare, all of these things I.

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<v Speaker 3>Just don't like.

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't like this guy. So I mean, and

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<v Speaker 2>I know there is that element. I'm going to feel

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<v Speaker 2>good about myself because I feel good voting for this

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<v Speaker 2>person because it is a virtuous thing to do. But

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<v Speaker 2>you do have a fairly stark policy difference.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but I would just say, right, there is the problem,

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<v Speaker 5>and Drama was going to hear, right, there is the problem.

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<v Speaker 5>It's the problem for the Trump campaign is that when

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<v Speaker 5>you start to say that people are going to vote

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<v Speaker 5>for Kama Harris so they don't like Trump our idiots

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<v Speaker 5>or fools.

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<v Speaker 1>Emotional, I know, but that's what they are.

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<v Speaker 5>You start doing that, you stop listening to why people

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<v Speaker 5>don't like you. And that is that is exactly how

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<v Speaker 5>the liberals got in a position they're in now because

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<v Speaker 5>everybody who said I don't really like those Liberals, they

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<v Speaker 5>instead of listening to that, no Democratic party listening to America,

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<v Speaker 5>they decided to steamroll over them.

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<v Speaker 1>That is not a recipe for success at the ballot box.

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<v Speaker 6>I operationalize what Rob is saying. I think it's pretty simple.

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<v Speaker 6>They could make a quick fix, which is usually in

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<v Speaker 6>campaigns the vice president is the attack dog and the

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<v Speaker 6>president is the one who sits back and puts out

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<v Speaker 6>the positive program for the future. Right, doesn't engage directly

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<v Speaker 6>in all this identity stuff. You know, I watched that

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<v Speaker 6>black journalist conference with the interview, and Trump likes paying

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<v Speaker 6>the attack dog. They should be sending jd Vance out

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<v Speaker 6>to do that kind of stuff, and Trump should turn

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<v Speaker 6>to a more positive That's just traditionally what happens in

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<v Speaker 6>presidential campaign. Strangely, it's the reverse, right. You hear people say, oh,

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<v Speaker 6>they picked Dvance because he is the broad vision for

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<v Speaker 6>what the party is going to be in the future. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 6>the roles, it's very strange. And the Trump campaign could

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<v Speaker 6>easily change that. And I think that would have that

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<v Speaker 6>would actually take what Rob's talking about and put it

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<v Speaker 6>into sort of real campaign practice. It'd be easy, excepting

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<v Speaker 6>you'd have to have Trump to And this brings me

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<v Speaker 6>to just one other point is the Trump campaign officials,

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<v Speaker 6>they may sadly look back on the days when Trump

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<v Speaker 6>Trump was a defendant with fondness and as the good

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<v Speaker 6>old days, because then Trump couldn't speak all day. He

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<v Speaker 6>was limited to this kind of two minute sound bites

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<v Speaker 6>when he was walking into an out of court. And

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<v Speaker 6>that's when Trump was doing the best because he couldn't

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<v Speaker 6>talk that much. The court forced discipline on him. And

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<v Speaker 6>that's the hard thing is that if they could switch

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<v Speaker 6>the president and vice presidential roles and then Trump, I mean,

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<v Speaker 6>this is wishing for a candidate that's not there could

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<v Speaker 6>be more disciplined at it, then it would be a

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<v Speaker 6>Then it would be a good campaign.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, we're always looking at the candidate. We don't have

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<v Speaker 3>to go ahead run.

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<v Speaker 5>No, that's absolutely true. The structural problems are sort of

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<v Speaker 5>baked in obviously to the Trump campaign. But it's not

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<v Speaker 5>as if there isn't past performance that you can use

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<v Speaker 5>to you know, as they say, and they say they

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<v Speaker 5>won't do in the finance, but they should do in campaigns.

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<v Speaker 5>When did he lose in twenty twenty, And he did

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<v Speaker 5>lose in twenty twenty. He lost after the first debate,

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<v Speaker 5>and the campaign officials knew because they had focus groups

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<v Speaker 5>and numbers of Republican men and Republican women in Wisconsin

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<v Speaker 5>and Arizona and Georgia who turned off of Trump. That

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<v Speaker 5>is what happened, and they were perfectly. They have trained

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<v Speaker 5>the Republican voter to go into the ballot box and

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<v Speaker 5>to vote for the down ballot candidates with that are

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<v Speaker 5>by their name, and to leave the top slot blank.

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<v Speaker 5>That is a dangerous thing. You don't want. You don't

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<v Speaker 5>want your voters to be doing that. And there It

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<v Speaker 5>isn't that hard. I mean, it's not like we've seen this,

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<v Speaker 5>We've seen Trump do.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like he can't do it. It's just that

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<v Speaker 1>he won't. And that is I don't know.

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<v Speaker 5>If that was in the Trump campaign, that would worry

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<v Speaker 5>me more than the JD. Van's stuff, More than anything else.

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<v Speaker 5>It would worry me that the most disciplined days of

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<v Speaker 5>the Trump campaign seemed to be over.

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 6>One other thing about oh sorry, just one little small

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<v Speaker 6>point is he suppose Harris does great, and she is

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<v Speaker 6>doing great right now. We shouldn't like pretend it's not happening.

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<v Speaker 6>But all she's doing, if she succeeds, she will just

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<v Speaker 6>get the race back to what it was before Biden's

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<v Speaker 6>disastrous debate performance. It's still going to come down to

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<v Speaker 6>six or seven battleground states, and the country's close, and

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<v Speaker 6>it's divided, and it's going to be decided by a

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<v Speaker 6>pointer two. And so that's the other thing is Trump

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<v Speaker 6>really should be focusing just on those Midwestern states. The

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<v Speaker 6>polling I saw come out in the New York Times today,

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<v Speaker 6>it just seems to show that Harris has just come

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<v Speaker 6>back to even in all those battleground states. But I

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<v Speaker 6>don't think Trump's going to be winning Minnesota now, Sorry, James.

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<v Speaker 2>Is she doing great or is it just being announced

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<v Speaker 2>that she is great? I mean, we get this flood

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<v Speaker 2>of relief from the media that they have this wonderful, charismatic, smart, braddy,

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<v Speaker 2>confident meme, goddess gout you know who can do it?

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<v Speaker 2>So is she doing great because of anything other than

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<v Speaker 2>she's a beaming alternative to the doddering old man that

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<v Speaker 2>they had before? And I mean, yes, you're always going

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<v Speaker 2>to get a bounce when you introduce somebody new who

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<v Speaker 2>comes in who's younger, has got a little bit more,

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<v Speaker 2>it has more vibrant energy in the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Before the honeymoon fades and people get tired of it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean, doing great. I don't think right now

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<v Speaker 2>has anything to do with what she's said or she's.

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<v Speaker 6>Raised three hundred million dollars and the parties unified behind her,

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<v Speaker 6>and she's starting to restore support in the Democrat for

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<v Speaker 6>the Democrats amongst minorities women. I mean, this is I'm

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<v Speaker 6>not saying she's doing better than they did in twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 6>She's just getting them back to the same start line

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<v Speaker 6>is twenty twenty. But that's that's an achievement because Biden

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<v Speaker 6>was going to get trounced.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, look, I mean four weeks ago, I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>it's probably about eight weeks ago. It was a it

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<v Speaker 5>was absolutely de facto truth that everybody knew projecting forward

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<v Speaker 5>that either one of these parties replaced either one of

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<v Speaker 5>their top candidates with almost anybody, they would get a

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<v Speaker 5>bounce because the negatives were really high on all of

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<v Speaker 5>these candidates. And one party did it kind of halfway,

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<v Speaker 5>not really, but they kind of did it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what you're seeing.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, we would have predicted this with person X

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<v Speaker 5>at the top of the side on either side, so

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<v Speaker 5>none of this is a surprise. All of the problem

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<v Speaker 5>is it in a compressed timeline, which is what this is.

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<v Speaker 5>You don't have that much time to define your candidate.

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<v Speaker 5>And luckily for Kamala Harris, Trump defines himself in the

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<v Speaker 5>negative constantly, and instead of defining her and I get

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<v Speaker 5>you know that bill, that list of all of those

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<v Speaker 5>people that she was ill served as Attorney General of California,

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<v Speaker 5>instead of having those be household names, what about this person?

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<v Speaker 1>What about that person?

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<v Speaker 5>What about those two kids in a store? We're talking

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<v Speaker 5>about whether her father is Jamaican or whether he's like

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<v Speaker 5>half Indian. Like this nonsense, waste of time. And if

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<v Speaker 5>they brought it up, they started it. They need to

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<v Speaker 5>like get there, They need to get back into control.

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<v Speaker 1>And they are not. They do not look to me

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<v Speaker 1>like they're doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I might have not have been the best

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<v Speaker 2>way to spend the week, but at some point, since

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<v Speaker 2>ethnicity and identification and all these things are of absolute

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<v Speaker 2>critical importance. Right now, it is a fun conversation to

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<v Speaker 2>be had, but not at the moment because our guest

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<v Speaker 2>is here. You've all leven the director of Social, cultural

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<v Speaker 2>and Constitutional Studies at the American Enterprise Institute.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the AIE. Of course.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the founder and editor of National Affairs and the

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<v Speaker 2>author of seven books, The most recent, published earlier this summer,

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<v Speaker 2>is American How the Constitution Unified our Nation and could

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<v Speaker 2>again you've allved, thanks for joining.

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<v Speaker 7>Us, Thank you very much for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know that the title of the book presumes

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<v Speaker 2>that there is a period of unification behind us, in

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<v Speaker 2>a period of constitutional unification that could be before us.

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<v Speaker 2>So that would mean we are in an interregnum of

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<v Speaker 2>constitutional disunity. How would you describe where we are right

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<v Speaker 2>now Visa VI, that old piece of bellum.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it.

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<v Speaker 7>I mean we are in a moment when we are

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<v Speaker 7>not unified about or by the Constitution in the ways

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<v Speaker 7>that we ought to be. And I think a lot

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<v Speaker 7>of Americans recognize that we're very divided, but tend to

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<v Speaker 7>think that the Constitution is the reason and are frustrated

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<v Speaker 7>by the various ways in which it holds them back

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<v Speaker 7>when they win elections or when they have ambitions. And

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<v Speaker 7>rather than see that the Constitution is a solution to

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<v Speaker 7>the kind of division we have now, they tend to

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<v Speaker 7>see it as the problem, Michaal in this book is

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<v Speaker 7>to help people see that, in fact, the Constitution is

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<v Speaker 7>much more like the solution than the problem that it

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<v Speaker 7>exists to help address exactly the sort of problem we have,

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<v Speaker 7>which is the challenge of holding together a diverse and

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<v Speaker 7>divided society, and that to the extent we're living through

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<v Speaker 7>a period of constitutional failure, which I think we are

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<v Speaker 7>to an extent, it's a failure of constitutional practice and

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<v Speaker 7>not of constitutional design, and therefore it calls on us

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<v Speaker 7>to reacquaint ourselves with the structure of the system and

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<v Speaker 7>what it might have to teach us. And that's what

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<v Speaker 7>I hope this book might help to do.

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<v Speaker 5>Hey, you boy, can I try a little theory on you?

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<v Speaker 5>You can tell me if I'm bull of it.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, John already's rolling his eyes. I can see.

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<v Speaker 5>In the strength of the Constitution, this strange document that

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<v Speaker 5>we still argue and fight about.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't think there's another document.

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<v Speaker 5>Maybe since the Gospels, that people have been reading and

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<v Speaker 5>rereading and fighting over. In software engineering, right, there's this

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<v Speaker 5>two big categories of how you put together a giant

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<v Speaker 5>software project. Right. One is called agile and one's called waterfall.

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<v Speaker 5>Waterfall is you go step by step, you accomplish one component,

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<v Speaker 5>and you move the next component, and you move to

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<v Speaker 5>the next component.

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<v Speaker 1>You just kind of chip away in it that way.

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<v Speaker 5>An agile is you kind of you start before you've

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<v Speaker 5>got everything taken care of, and you just get going,

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<v Speaker 5>and you know that there are weaknesses.

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<v Speaker 1>You can have to fix those later.

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<v Speaker 5>But the idea is to keep going and you create

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<v Speaker 5>a document that is both incredibly resilient, or you create

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<v Speaker 5>a product incredibly resilient but also has problems that need

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<v Speaker 5>to be fixed over time. But the point is you

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<v Speaker 5>got it going and everybody kind of agreed on the

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<v Speaker 5>big vision. It feels to me like in terms of

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<v Speaker 5>the software, the code for the United States of America,

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<v Speaker 5>which is the Constitution, that it's an incredibly brilliant piece

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<v Speaker 5>of agile coding. And every argument we have about it,

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<v Speaker 5>when people talk about how well this is, like, well,

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<v Speaker 5>this is our problem. We're still fighting over this. We're

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<v Speaker 5>still fighting over the Second Amendment. I think that is

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<v Speaker 5>the great act, that great strength of the Constitution, right

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<v Speaker 5>that we're still going to fight over it, and our

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<v Speaker 5>grand channel will fight over it.

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<v Speaker 7>I think it's absolutely right. It's a really good metaphor

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<v Speaker 7>for how the system is meant to work, and it's

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<v Speaker 7>intentional in a lot of ways. What you see when

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<v Speaker 7>you look at the records of the Constitutional Convention is

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<v Speaker 7>that the framers of the Constitution dealt with some very

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<v Speaker 7>serious problems by containing them as tensions within the system. Right,

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<v Speaker 7>were they going to empower the large states or the

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<v Speaker 7>small states? That seems like a stark choice to make,

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<v Speaker 7>but their answer was, yes, We're going to empower the

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<v Speaker 7>large states and the small states, and the fights between

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<v Speaker 7>them are going to be essential to the political life

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<v Speaker 7>of our society. Right. Is the President of the United

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<v Speaker 7>States an elevated head of state or is the president

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<v Speaker 7>a kind of glorified clerk. Well, the answer is yes,

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<v Speaker 7>the president is both those things, even though that's obviously contradictory,

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<v Speaker 7>and the presidency is a contradictory office about which we

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<v Speaker 7>fight constantly and unendingly, and a lot of the most

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<v Speaker 7>significant and kinds of tensions that occupy us as Americans

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<v Speaker 7>in our political life are contained within the structure of

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<v Speaker 7>the Constitution. What that allows the system to do is

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<v Speaker 7>to is to shift its weight as it needs to

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<v Speaker 7>without losing its balance. It's extraordinarily precisely agile, because it

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<v Speaker 7>allows us to emphasize different things at different times. There

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<v Speaker 7>are moments when we need a strong president to respond

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<v Speaker 7>on behalf of the country to dangerous problems. There are

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<v Speaker 7>moments when we need Congress to be stronger. And a

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<v Speaker 7>lot of the arguments we can have are about how

423
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:37.440
<v Speaker 7>to rebalance and shift the weight of the different parts

424
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.640
<v Speaker 7>of the system. I think those are a lot of

425
00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:41.839
<v Speaker 7>our arguments now, and it's a sign of strength in

426
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.759
<v Speaker 7>our system. We underestimate the stability and strength of the

427
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:48.359
<v Speaker 7>American system. We've had the same institutions in America since

428
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.680
<v Speaker 7>seventeen ninety. There's no other country that can say that

429
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:53.200
<v Speaker 7>about its governing institutions.

430
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.359
<v Speaker 6>You've all. What strikes me, why it's John you, I'm

431
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:02.240
<v Speaker 6>sitting in for Steve Hayward. What strikes me is I

432
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:04.359
<v Speaker 6>could see a youngster reading this book and going, You've

433
00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:06.400
<v Speaker 6>all you don't know what time it is, right, that's

434
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.279
<v Speaker 6>their big frame. It's so you know, the both the

435
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.400
<v Speaker 6>left and the right, young people on the left and

436
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:14.920
<v Speaker 6>the right all have you know, reject the constitution. Right,

437
00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:17.839
<v Speaker 6>the left is so influenced by the sixteen nineteen project.

438
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.839
<v Speaker 6>This is the work of racist and sexist oppressors. But

439
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.359
<v Speaker 6>also on the conservative side, there's this big movement, you know, saying,

440
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.920
<v Speaker 6>you know, the Constitution is also holding us back. You know,

441
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:34.279
<v Speaker 6>we should be advancing conservative social values despite originalism and

442
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:37.559
<v Speaker 6>despite all these ideas that tried to create a neutral

443
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:39.960
<v Speaker 6>approach to the Constitution. These last week, it seems like

444
00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:43.640
<v Speaker 6>everybody wants to go beyond the Constitution. Now, how do

445
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:44.799
<v Speaker 6>you respond to them?

446
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:47.480
<v Speaker 7>You know, the book very much speaks to exactly those

447
00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:50.319
<v Speaker 7>younger people. And one thing I would say is, I'm

448
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.599
<v Speaker 7>a conservative, so I think it's always the same time.

449
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.319
<v Speaker 7>It's time to raise another generation of Americans to be

450
00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 7>decent human beings and good citizens. That's always our challenge.

451
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:02.519
<v Speaker 7>That was your grandparents' challenge, and it's going to be

452
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:04.599
<v Speaker 7>your grandkid's challenge, and it's your challenge.

453
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:05.119
<v Speaker 3>And I think a.

454
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.640
<v Speaker 7>Lot of what you don't know what time it is

455
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.039
<v Speaker 7>kind of arguments on the right now are a form

456
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.960
<v Speaker 7>of escapism from responsibility. They want to say, well, this

457
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.119
<v Speaker 7>was how we used to work, but now all the

458
00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:18.920
<v Speaker 7>rules have been broken, so we don't need to worry

459
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.039
<v Speaker 7>about the rules either. Well, no, they're still here. We

460
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.240
<v Speaker 7>still need them. They still answer questions and challenges. They're

461
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:28.359
<v Speaker 7>always with us, and we have to recognize that the

462
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:33.240
<v Speaker 7>burden of sustaining this system is the privilege of being

463
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.720
<v Speaker 7>an American citizen. But more than that, I think the objections,

464
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.359
<v Speaker 7>in a sense, the objections that you find in the

465
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.799
<v Speaker 7>Constitution on the left are familiar, and the book treats

466
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.799
<v Speaker 7>those at great length. They're the same kinds of arguments

467
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:47.799
<v Speaker 7>that the progressives have been making for more than one

468
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.160
<v Speaker 7>hundred years about the Constitution, that it's not democratic enough,

469
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.480
<v Speaker 7>that it's not sophisticated enough to govern in the modern world.

470
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:58.440
<v Speaker 7>I disagree the Constitution is more sophisticated than these critics

471
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:02.000
<v Speaker 7>are about the nature of the liberal society. The conservative

472
00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:05.559
<v Speaker 7>critiques are a little newer, and I think in some

473
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:11.240
<v Speaker 7>ways they're misguided about the character of democratic life and

474
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.759
<v Speaker 7>of our constitutional system. At the heart of a lot

475
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:17.880
<v Speaker 7>of them is this notion that the Constitution is empty proceduralism,

476
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:21.079
<v Speaker 7>that it doesn't have moral content, it's just about a

477
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.839
<v Speaker 7>set of procedures and rules. And I think the whole

478
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:29.200
<v Speaker 7>idea of empty proceduralism is completely confused. There's actually no

479
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 7>such thing as empty proceduralism. What procedures do is create

480
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:39.359
<v Speaker 7>habits and virtues and facilitate moral formation. Just think about

481
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.839
<v Speaker 7>if you want to speak for the Western moral tradition,

482
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:45.000
<v Speaker 7>which they do, and if you want to say you're

483
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.079
<v Speaker 7>speaking for the tradition, the classical Christian tradition that reaches

484
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.319
<v Speaker 7>back to Aquinas and Aristotle. In that tradition, the way

485
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.480
<v Speaker 7>in which we become morally formed is by being habituated

486
00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:00.240
<v Speaker 7>to practicing the virtues. And what is the mechanism for

487
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.279
<v Speaker 7>a bituation. It's precisely what they call procedure. It's the

488
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:06.640
<v Speaker 7>rules that govern how we engage with each other. And

489
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:12.440
<v Speaker 7>constitutional procedures make us into citizens that respect each other's equality,

490
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:15.640
<v Speaker 7>make us into people with some humility and some patience

491
00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:19.000
<v Speaker 7>and ability to deal with difference and confront one another

492
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:22.400
<v Speaker 7>in a way that points to some constructive common action

493
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.640
<v Speaker 7>that is deeply morally formative. I think the arguments on

494
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.680
<v Speaker 7>the right about the nature of the Constitution are just

495
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:28.799
<v Speaker 7>very confused.

496
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:32.640
<v Speaker 6>You just put a practical point on it as abortion.

497
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:34.960
<v Speaker 6>So it sounds to me like you would support the

498
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.960
<v Speaker 6>idea of Dobs that abortion should be sent back to

499
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.119
<v Speaker 6>the States where we can all fight about it politically.

500
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:43.680
<v Speaker 6>Because both conservatives and liberals want Congress to pass an

501
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:46.960
<v Speaker 6>abortion bill, right, just in different points of the spectrum.

502
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:52.039
<v Speaker 6>Even conservatives now are talking about passing a federal nationwide

503
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.759
<v Speaker 6>pro life bill, just in the same way liberals want

504
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:58.640
<v Speaker 6>to pass a restoration of ro versus Wade in Congress.

505
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:00.960
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and look, I think that that's the venue where

506
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.880
<v Speaker 7>we have to argue about questions like that. It's not

507
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:06.680
<v Speaker 7>up to the courts to decide what our laws should be.

508
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 7>What our laws should be is the fundamental political question,

509
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.240
<v Speaker 7>and that means we have to decide it together in

510
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:15.039
<v Speaker 7>those arenas where we can actually engage with each other,

511
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.119
<v Speaker 7>compete with each other, negotiate with each other. And that

512
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.519
<v Speaker 7>has to happen in the legislature.

513
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Hey, I have maybe a political cultural question now.

514
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:29.160
<v Speaker 5>Obviously, the first ten amendments, a first ten amendments Constitution

515
00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:31.359
<v Speaker 5>happened all kind of at once, right, and then there's

516
00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:34.240
<v Speaker 5>a bunch more kind of in a cluster. And then

517
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:36.400
<v Speaker 5>there was a couple around the Civil War periods, the

518
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:39.079
<v Speaker 5>Civil War era kinds, and then there were there's a

519
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:44.440
<v Speaker 5>bunch of them around turn of the last century that

520
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:48.880
<v Speaker 5>were with suffrage and prohibion things like that. And then

521
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:53.519
<v Speaker 5>kind of a quiet period where it just seemed like

522
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.119
<v Speaker 5>whenever you say to people, well, you could have a

523
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.400
<v Speaker 5>constitutional amendment, they kind of rolled their eyes, like, well, man,

524
00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:58.759
<v Speaker 5>that's just never going to happen.

525
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:00.759
<v Speaker 1>Two thirds of this two there's never going to happen.

526
00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:04.240
<v Speaker 5>Are we going to Are we entering a phase when

527
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.240
<v Speaker 5>that is true, that this is the idea of like

528
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:09.519
<v Speaker 5>galvanizing a giant majority of Americans to do this thing

529
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.079
<v Speaker 5>and throughout all these different houses of government state houses

530
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.440
<v Speaker 5>and uh and and federal chambers.

531
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.039
<v Speaker 1>Or is it cyclical?

532
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:21.599
<v Speaker 5>I mean, could we look at another period in the

533
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.880
<v Speaker 5>next ten twenty thirty years where we reminds us of

534
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.119
<v Speaker 5>those turn of this turn of the twentieth century spate

535
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.359
<v Speaker 5>of some of them were really dumb, but we managed

536
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:32.000
<v Speaker 5>to get him through.

537
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:32.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean nobody.

538
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:36.000
<v Speaker 5>I don't think anybody's really arguing for prohibitions, certainly not

539
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:36.759
<v Speaker 5>John Hughes.

540
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Not sure to get you up in the morning.

541
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.839
<v Speaker 6>Are you add more stuff just telcohol?

542
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:48.839
<v Speaker 7>John wants to mandate drinking exactly.

543
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.839
<v Speaker 6>I mean, how it's easier would be for us to

544
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 6>agree if we.

545
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.720
<v Speaker 5>All have the I mean, I guess that's what I'm saying,

546
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:57.839
<v Speaker 5>is like, is it I mean, is the idea that

547
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:00.759
<v Speaker 5>I always say to people when they complain of I'm like, hey, listen,

548
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:03.119
<v Speaker 5>constitutions a living document.

549
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:04.400
<v Speaker 1>You can amend it. You can amend it.

550
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:06.480
<v Speaker 5>And they'll call, you know, come on, that's not realistic.

551
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:08.839
<v Speaker 5>Is it not realistic? Or is it cyclical? Or is

552
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:12.640
<v Speaker 5>it something that happened in the past and it is

553
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:13.599
<v Speaker 5>possible to happen now.

554
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:17.079
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think the Constitution allows us for allow us

555
00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:20.119
<v Speaker 7>for a lot of room for political decision making, for

556
00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:24.039
<v Speaker 7>changing the rules that govern the workings of American government.

557
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:28.039
<v Speaker 7>Without a constitutional amendment, we've, as you say, the amendments

558
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:33.279
<v Speaker 7>of common bunches generally, and the last real bunch of

559
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.319
<v Speaker 7>amendments was the Progressive Amendments. We had a series afterwards

560
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.440
<v Speaker 7>in the middle of the twentieth century to sort of

561
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:42.680
<v Speaker 7>fix a couple of things, presidential succession and so on,

562
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.240
<v Speaker 7>lowering the voting age, and there was the final so far,

563
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.359
<v Speaker 7>the twenty seventh Amendments was almost symbolic really as part

564
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:54.279
<v Speaker 7>of celebrating the two hundredth anniversary of the Constitution. The

565
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.559
<v Speaker 7>last real amendments fifty years ago, and that is a

566
00:28:56.599 --> 00:28:57.279
<v Speaker 7>long time.

567
00:28:58.400 --> 00:28:59.000
<v Speaker 3>I have to say.

568
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:01.920
<v Speaker 7>For one thing, I'm I'm a conservative, and therefore I

569
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.839
<v Speaker 7>don't really see a lot of problems to which a

570
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.079
<v Speaker 7>constitutional amount would be a solution. I don't think it's

571
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 7>obvious now that there are some essential amendments. I think

572
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:12.640
<v Speaker 7>a lot of the problems of our political culture are

573
00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:16.559
<v Speaker 7>functions of things we can change without constitutional amendments. The

574
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:19.759
<v Speaker 7>nature of the electoral process and especially the primary system,

575
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:23.559
<v Speaker 7>the way Congress works. We don't have broad majorities for

576
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.680
<v Speaker 7>anything in American public life right now, so the notion

577
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.680
<v Speaker 7>that we would have a broad majority for a constitutional

578
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:32.119
<v Speaker 7>amendment is a little hard to imagine.

579
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:33.200
<v Speaker 3>But these things do change.

580
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.839
<v Speaker 7>American party politics work in phases, and I can certainly

581
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.079
<v Speaker 7>imagine that twenty five years from now we're in a

582
00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:44.119
<v Speaker 7>different enough place where there's public pressure for amendments. I

583
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:47.839
<v Speaker 7>shudder to think what those would be, frankly, but it's possible.

584
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:50.279
<v Speaker 7>I don't think that in this moment where we are now,

585
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.599
<v Speaker 7>those would be possible, And I think the pressures we

586
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.400
<v Speaker 7>do see actually reinforce the wisdom of the original structure

587
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.480
<v Speaker 7>of the Constitution. You know, the Biden administration wants to

588
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.079
<v Speaker 7>limit the terms of Supreme Court justices.

589
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.920
<v Speaker 5>To ask about to ask that that collection of quote

590
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.279
<v Speaker 5>reforms unquote Yeah.

591
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.559
<v Speaker 7>I mean, look, I think those ideas are exactly an

592
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:14.920
<v Speaker 7>example of why we have lifetime tenure for judges. When

593
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:17.200
<v Speaker 7>you tell people people as wise they're left time tendre

594
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:19.240
<v Speaker 7>you say, well, you want to protect them from pressure

595
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:24.039
<v Speaker 7>from the political branches that would try to kick out

596
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.240
<v Speaker 7>judges that make decisions they don't like. And people say, well,

597
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.480
<v Speaker 7>that wouldn't happen. Well, that's literally what's happening now. What

598
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.839
<v Speaker 7>the Democrats want to do here is exactly why there

599
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:35.599
<v Speaker 7>is lifetime tenure for judges, and exactly why we have

600
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.440
<v Speaker 7>to retain lifetime tenure for judges.

601
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:43.920
<v Speaker 6>I think isn't it fair to say that Donald Trump, Yes,

602
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.480
<v Speaker 6>he's accused of being a threat to the constitution or democracy,

603
00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:49.720
<v Speaker 6>even though we live in a republic not a democracy.

604
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:53.480
<v Speaker 6>But when you read about what the Democrats want to do,

605
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.400
<v Speaker 6>aren't they the ones threatening longer term damage to the constitution,

606
00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:02.079
<v Speaker 6>right term limits on the justices. Kamala Harris back in

607
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.799
<v Speaker 6>twenty twenty said she supported court packing these ideas about it.

608
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:07.720
<v Speaker 6>They also want to get rid of the electoral college.

609
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:11.200
<v Speaker 6>They talk about getting rid of the filibuster, adding Puerto

610
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.599
<v Speaker 6>Rico and Washington, DC as states. I mean, I mean,

611
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:16.599
<v Speaker 6>this is actually kind of like what Rob was talking

612
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:20.400
<v Speaker 6>about before the big burst of progressive constitutional amendments were

613
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:24.799
<v Speaker 6>designed to get rid of more guardrails pure democracy. Isn't

614
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:26.759
<v Speaker 6>that what progresses want to do again right now? And

615
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:30.000
<v Speaker 6>is it? Kamala Harris the right she is the phalank

616
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.960
<v Speaker 6>had phalanx in that movement to undo this constitutional order

617
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.799
<v Speaker 6>your favorite with It's just the Supreme Court termlament thing

618
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:38.880
<v Speaker 6>is just the first of what they have in mind.

619
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:41.519
<v Speaker 7>I think what's always been striking about the progressives is

620
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.799
<v Speaker 7>that they go at the Constitution head on. They openly

621
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:49.400
<v Speaker 7>dislike the system and want to change it in fundamental ways.

622
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:51.519
<v Speaker 7>When to undermine it fundamental ways, And I do think

623
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.079
<v Speaker 7>a lot of what they're talking about here are direct

624
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:58.680
<v Speaker 7>attacks on all of the countermajoritarian parts of the Constitution.

625
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:02.720
<v Speaker 7>The Constitution exists of balance majority rule and minority rights.

626
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:06.720
<v Speaker 7>All of the ways that restrain majority rule are under

627
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.759
<v Speaker 7>attach now the Bill of Rights, one by one who

628
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.279
<v Speaker 7>they're working their way through the first Amendment from religion

629
00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 7>to speech and on from there. They talk the same

630
00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:18.519
<v Speaker 7>way about the Senate, now about the courts the electoral College.

631
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:22.640
<v Speaker 7>As you say, it's a strategy that seems rooted in

632
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.319
<v Speaker 7>this weird notion that they're the majority, which I actually

633
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:27.680
<v Speaker 7>don't think is correct. But in any case, that's always

634
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.079
<v Speaker 7>been how the progressives have thought about it. I think

635
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.240
<v Speaker 7>there is a danger to the Constitution from the kind

636
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:35.759
<v Speaker 7>of the approach that Donald Trump had to the presidency.

637
00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:38.599
<v Speaker 7>He was just not cognizant of the boundaries on the

638
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:40.960
<v Speaker 7>president and didn't care much about them. I think that's

639
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:45.039
<v Speaker 7>bad too. But there is a kind of direct assault

640
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.319
<v Speaker 7>on the Constitution, a knowing assault on it, that is

641
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:50.400
<v Speaker 7>much more characteristic on the left. But as you said

642
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.400
<v Speaker 7>at the beginning, John, there are now threats to the

643
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:56.319
<v Speaker 7>Constitution from both left and right, and we all need

644
00:32:56.359 --> 00:33:00.119
<v Speaker 7>a reminder of what the Constitution is, for why it

645
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.759
<v Speaker 7>works the way it does, Especially the parts of it

646
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:06.279
<v Speaker 7>that are most frustrating two narrow majorities, which are the

647
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:08.680
<v Speaker 7>only kind we have now, are the parts of it

648
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.519
<v Speaker 7>that we have got to sustain and remind people about,

649
00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:15.039
<v Speaker 7>because those elements are what allow our system to keep

650
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.839
<v Speaker 7>its balance. The Constitution is meant to frustrate narrow majorities,

651
00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:23.799
<v Speaker 7>to force them to grow, and to empower only broad majorities.

652
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:26.160
<v Speaker 7>That's the distinct feature of the American system. It's not

653
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:29.119
<v Speaker 7>like parliamentary systems in that way. I think that's had

654
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:32.160
<v Speaker 7>a lot to do with its durability.

655
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.720
<v Speaker 5>I always have a problem with my friends are like

656
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:38.440
<v Speaker 5>talk about I mean, I get a lot of crap

657
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.359
<v Speaker 5>on this podcast from people like John You about being

658
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:44.440
<v Speaker 5>a rhino. But you know, when I talk to my

659
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.160
<v Speaker 5>liberal friends, my very liberal Democrat friends, always say to them,

660
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:51.720
<v Speaker 5>your MVP of the Democratic parties, Joe Manchin, the MVP

661
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.079
<v Speaker 5>of the Republican Party, are all the rhinos like me?

662
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:55.920
<v Speaker 1>You need it, That's the way the system works. You

663
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:56.400
<v Speaker 1>don't like it.

664
00:33:56.519 --> 00:33:58.039
<v Speaker 5>I guess we need a prime minister. We're not going

665
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:00.480
<v Speaker 5>to get one. This is the way the system is.

666
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.319
<v Speaker 5>And it always stolished to me how quickly we forget that.

667
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:07.839
<v Speaker 7>Absolutely. Our system does not trust narrow majorities. And the

668
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.039
<v Speaker 7>reason for that is very straightforward. Majorities can be dangerous.

669
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:11.760
<v Speaker 3>It's true.

670
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:15.119
<v Speaker 7>Majority rule is necessary to legitimate political power, but it's

671
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:19.320
<v Speaker 7>also dangerous, and the Constitution deals with that by standing

672
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:21.360
<v Speaker 7>in the way of narrow majorities so that they are

673
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:22.239
<v Speaker 7>forced to grow.

674
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:22.800
<v Speaker 1>And some.

675
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:26.679
<v Speaker 7>Of the institutions built up around it, like the filibuster,

676
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.360
<v Speaker 7>which I think is very important to protect and sustain,

677
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:33.079
<v Speaker 7>are also they work that way. All the bipartisan legislation

678
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.760
<v Speaker 7>of the twenty first century has basically been a function

679
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:39.079
<v Speaker 7>of the filibuster, and the idea that getting rid of

680
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:42.360
<v Speaker 7>it is what twenty first century American politics requires strikes

681
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:44.840
<v Speaker 7>me as just crazy. There's an assumption at the bottom

682
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 7>of a lot of progressive arguments that there's this big

683
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:50.239
<v Speaker 7>majority out there and it's being held back by the system.

684
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.119
<v Speaker 7>But the problem we have is that there's not a

685
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:57.119
<v Speaker 7>majority for anything, and we need to form majorities. That's

686
00:34:57.159 --> 00:34:58.960
<v Speaker 7>what the Constitution can help us to do.

687
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.679
<v Speaker 2>We were speaking before about the right not liking the

688
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Constitutions parts of it because it was just procedural, and

689
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:08.239
<v Speaker 2>you were right and correct to say that the entire

690
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.519
<v Speaker 2>document is suffused with the philosophy at the times like

691
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:14.480
<v Speaker 2>a building, the framework, the structure, the girders, or the

692
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.119
<v Speaker 2>spirit of Western civilization, and the procedural stuff is the

693
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:19.119
<v Speaker 2>cladding that goes up on top of that.

694
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:19.639
<v Speaker 3>We see.

695
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:24.079
<v Speaker 2>But I wonder if you had a constitutional convention, as

696
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:27.039
<v Speaker 2>so many people seem to want to, are talking about,

697
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.960
<v Speaker 2>some way of getting our arms around this thing and

698
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:34.320
<v Speaker 2>making sure that it's adaptable for its next century. I

699
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:38.719
<v Speaker 2>think that the right, I would fear less having a

700
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.039
<v Speaker 2>constitutional convention, because I think the instincts of the right

701
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:44.840
<v Speaker 2>would be still to constrain the power of the state

702
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.360
<v Speaker 2>and have rights be natural rights, and that the left

703
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:53.519
<v Speaker 2>would wish to enshrine in the Constitution any number of

704
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:57.760
<v Speaker 2>an innumerable number of little detailed rights which the state provided,

705
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:01.440
<v Speaker 2>guaranteed and was the source of. And maybe that's the

706
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:05.119
<v Speaker 2>difficulty that we're talking about here when you say that

707
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:06.800
<v Speaker 2>there's not a majority for these ideas.

708
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:07.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, they don't believe that.

709
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:10.320
<v Speaker 2>If the left may not believe that there is a

710
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:14.519
<v Speaker 2>majority for these things, but more importantly, they are correct,

711
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.400
<v Speaker 2>and therefore the things that stand in the way of

712
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.480
<v Speaker 2>all of these things being manifested in the country are

713
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:23.760
<v Speaker 2>illegitimate and immoral and possibly evil and the rest of it.

714
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:29.280
<v Speaker 2>And that's why they would shread nearly any single aspect

715
00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:32.039
<v Speaker 2>of the Constitution that got in their way, whereas I

716
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.159
<v Speaker 2>don't fear that from the right.

717
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:37.079
<v Speaker 3>So I agree with that.

718
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:42.239
<v Speaker 7>I think that well, I would be worried about a

719
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:46.239
<v Speaker 7>constitutional convention from all directions. I think that opening up

720
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:48.239
<v Speaker 7>the document in a way that some people suggest, and

721
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:50.639
<v Speaker 7>just having a free for all about what it ought

722
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:52.840
<v Speaker 7>to be would not serve ce well in this moment.

723
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.679
<v Speaker 7>But I would certainly fear the left more than the

724
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.679
<v Speaker 7>right for just the reasons you're suggesting. I think the

725
00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:01.159
<v Speaker 7>Constitution was written in a very peculiar moment in American history,

726
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.400
<v Speaker 7>where there had been five years of war in the Revolution,

727
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.559
<v Speaker 7>war against government that was seen as overly powerful and domineering.

728
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:12.599
<v Speaker 7>And then there were five years after the Revolution in

729
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.880
<v Speaker 7>which there was total pandemonium and government was too weak

730
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:20.719
<v Speaker 7>and ineffective. And the Constitutional Convention responded to both of

731
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:24.760
<v Speaker 7>those problems, and so was aware of the dangers of

732
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:28.320
<v Speaker 7>weak government and strong government at the same time, and

733
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:31.280
<v Speaker 7>sought for some kind of balance between the two. It's

734
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:33.800
<v Speaker 7>very hard to imagine that at any other moment in

735
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:37.239
<v Speaker 7>American history we would have produced quite that kind of balance,

736
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:39.400
<v Speaker 7>and so I think for that reason, it's a good

737
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.159
<v Speaker 7>thing that it's hard to amend the Constitution. Sometimes we

738
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:44.840
<v Speaker 7>need to, but we should be very wary about opening

739
00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:45.119
<v Speaker 7>it up.

740
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:46.679
<v Speaker 2>I think it's great. I mean they say the center

741
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:48.519
<v Speaker 2>to the place where the passions go to be cooled.

742
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:52.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean the Constitutional Amendment brought is it process is

743
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:55.679
<v Speaker 2>the deep freeze in which things are packed in ice

744
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:58.760
<v Speaker 2>and the good luck getting out of that. Which is

745
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:01.760
<v Speaker 2>good because, as you noted, it came out of a

746
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:04.559
<v Speaker 2>very unique time. But at the same time we seem

747
00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:08.000
<v Speaker 2>to have been blessed by not only a time that

748
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:11.480
<v Speaker 2>produced this unique document, but the temperaments the people who

749
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:14.679
<v Speaker 2>crafted it and to understood it. And that's what baffles

750
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:16.320
<v Speaker 2>me about the people who want to tear it up

751
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:18.679
<v Speaker 2>and start all over or just tinker it into oblivion.

752
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.599
<v Speaker 2>Is that human nature, what they discern, what they knew

753
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:24.960
<v Speaker 2>about human nature and human systems at the time is

754
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:28.320
<v Speaker 2>hardly irrelevant and outdated today.

755
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:29.199
<v Speaker 3>They haven't, they.

756
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Haven't changed, and they exist to this day. And there's

757
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 2>a lesson in that that an ahistorical generation seems completely

758
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:37.880
<v Speaker 2>delighted to ignore.

759
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:43.519
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think the notion that it's old and out

760
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:46.239
<v Speaker 7>of its time is the most wrong thing about the

761
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.679
<v Speaker 7>critiques that people offer about the Constitution. The Constitution is

762
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:53.440
<v Speaker 7>I think more sophisticated than its critics about the most

763
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:57.599
<v Speaker 7>difficult challenge that faces every modern democratic society, which is

764
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:02.320
<v Speaker 7>the challenge of cohesion amid diversity. The United States is

765
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:05.519
<v Speaker 7>you know, The most popular kind of critique among political

766
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.800
<v Speaker 7>scientists of the Constitution is a kind of comparative critique

767
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:11.599
<v Speaker 7>that looks at Norway or Denmark and says, well, these

768
00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:15.519
<v Speaker 7>systems are more directly representative and more proportional. The very

769
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:18.599
<v Speaker 7>idea that we could even think to compare our government

770
00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:22.920
<v Speaker 7>to Norway's is an example of how effective the Constitution is.

771
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:26.400
<v Speaker 7>The United States is not like Norway. It's like India.

772
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:30.239
<v Speaker 7>It's like it's like Brazil and Mexico, except it's much

773
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:34.199
<v Speaker 7>better governed than those places. It's a vast democracy that

774
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.360
<v Speaker 7>works so well that it could compare itself to Denmark.

775
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:40.880
<v Speaker 7>And the fact that we're able to do that is

776
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.000
<v Speaker 7>a function of the incredible sophistication.

777
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.599
<v Speaker 6>That's crazy. I don't ever want to compare anything we

778
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:53.119
<v Speaker 6>do to Denial. Yeah, well look than Denmark.

779
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.719
<v Speaker 1>This is a legit. What's a real question. I really

780
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:56.840
<v Speaker 1>I've always wanted this.

781
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:02.880
<v Speaker 5>I get that they were really smart guys. You know,

782
00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:07.639
<v Speaker 5>I was forced to read the Federalist papers in college,

783
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:09.719
<v Speaker 5>and so I get that they were smart. But the

784
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:13.119
<v Speaker 5>idea that they were the architects of this system that

785
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:17.400
<v Speaker 5>works at this scale, like at the scale that the

786
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:20.039
<v Speaker 5>United I mean, the reason that we are not like

787
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:22.119
<v Speaker 5>Norway's because we have Norway here too.

788
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:23.960
<v Speaker 1>It's up there somewhere close.

789
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.880
<v Speaker 5>To where James lips and we have a little bit

790
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:28.880
<v Speaker 5>of Mexico down there.

791
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we have everything.

792
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.119
<v Speaker 5>And the idea that these Do you think these guys

793
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:35.840
<v Speaker 5>had an idea that this country was going to be

794
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:39.639
<v Speaker 5>loud and fractious and noisy, and that we needed a

795
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:41.400
<v Speaker 5>system that was going to be able to contain that

796
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:45.920
<v Speaker 5>and channel that. Or do you think they just thought, hey, listen,

797
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.920
<v Speaker 5>you put people in a room together, no matter what

798
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 5>their background is, they're going to fight. Sometimes the most bitter,

799
00:40:57.039 --> 00:40:59.280
<v Speaker 5>the bitterest arguments are between family members.

800
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:01.880
<v Speaker 1>So so this works at scale.

801
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:04.199
<v Speaker 5>It works when we have, you know, thirteen colonies, works

802
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:06.199
<v Speaker 5>when we have a population of one million, we have

803
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:08.039
<v Speaker 5>two big cities, and it works when we have twenty

804
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:08.800
<v Speaker 5>seven big cities.

805
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Is that did they know? Well?

806
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:15.599
<v Speaker 7>I certainly think they didn't know quite how the United

807
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:18.519
<v Speaker 7>States would grow. I think I think they didn't have

808
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:20.480
<v Speaker 7>a conception of what it could be in the twenty

809
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:23.119
<v Speaker 7>first century. But I do think a number of them

810
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:25.840
<v Speaker 7>had a very strong sense that the United States was

811
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:30.719
<v Speaker 7>destined to be a great world power had a real

812
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:34.679
<v Speaker 7>sense that it was going to grow geographically and demographically.

813
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.920
<v Speaker 7>You know, Alexander Hamilton talks about the future of the

814
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.199
<v Speaker 7>country in a way that is extraordinarily modern and far seeing.

815
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:44.639
<v Speaker 7>They didn't know exactly how, but I think they were

816
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:48.320
<v Speaker 7>building for durability and growth. And they had a sense

817
00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:53.239
<v Speaker 7>that politics is always contentious, that it is about fighting,

818
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:56.880
<v Speaker 7>and therefore the system has to be built to contain

819
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:02.119
<v Speaker 7>tensions but also facilitate constructive fighting. And that is an

820
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:05.320
<v Speaker 7>insight that has served us very well. It's remained true.

821
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:08.280
<v Speaker 7>And you know the United States, I mean Americans, I

822
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:11.880
<v Speaker 7>think we always exaggerate our internal differences. We say, well,

823
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 7>we used to be, you know, this one homogeneous society

824
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.280
<v Speaker 7>back then, but now we're so diverse and different. I

825
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.199
<v Speaker 7>think we're kind of wrong on both ends of that.

826
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:23.360
<v Speaker 7>The America of the late eighteenth century was quite divided

827
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.079
<v Speaker 7>and fractious and felt diverse to itself, and the America

828
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:28.880
<v Speaker 7>of the twenty first century. I mean, look, if you

829
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:31.280
<v Speaker 7>spend a few weeks abroad and then run into an

830
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:34.840
<v Speaker 7>American somewhere, you know that person's an American in five

831
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.960
<v Speaker 7>seconds from across the room. We have a lot in common,

832
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:40.559
<v Speaker 7>and it's not only when we agree with each other,

833
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:43.960
<v Speaker 7>when we're from the same place. There is absolutely such

834
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:46.239
<v Speaker 7>a thing in the world as the American character, and

835
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:48.079
<v Speaker 7>in a lot of ways it's a function of our

836
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:50.920
<v Speaker 7>constitutional system and of our political culture.

837
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:56.280
<v Speaker 6>Thank you all. What comes next. So there's an influential

838
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:59.000
<v Speaker 6>theory out there that says, you know, American history goes

839
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:01.760
<v Speaker 6>in these kind of cycles, and where you're at the end.

840
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:04.360
<v Speaker 6>I feel like we're in one of these, Like at

841
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.119
<v Speaker 6>the end of the ancient regime, the way things have

842
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:10.559
<v Speaker 6>run for a while decades comes to an end. They say,

843
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:14.159
<v Speaker 6>you get these years of closely divided elections where nothing happens,

844
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:16.840
<v Speaker 6>people get more and more frustrated. Then some kind of

845
00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:19.960
<v Speaker 6>crisis occurs and we kind of break through that, and

846
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.840
<v Speaker 6>then a whole new system comes into existence. So they

847
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:26.440
<v Speaker 6>say Reagan was like that, FDR was like that, Lincoln

848
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:29.079
<v Speaker 6>and Jefferson going back. You know, those are the major points.

849
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:31.760
<v Speaker 6>Don you feel like we're in that now? And if

850
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:34.320
<v Speaker 6>that's true, what's going to be what's going to replace

851
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:41.039
<v Speaker 6>this kind of close elections, bitter divisions, polarization, which you know,

852
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:43.840
<v Speaker 6>what you see at the end of a cycle. What's

853
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:45.159
<v Speaker 6>the next one going to look like?

854
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.400
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think that's right. You know, Samuel Huntington wrote

855
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:50.000
<v Speaker 7>a book in the early eighties called The Promise of Disharmony,

856
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:53.719
<v Speaker 7>which is an amazing book what really underappreciated, and he

857
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:56.159
<v Speaker 7>describes this these kinds of cycles, and he even said

858
00:43:56.199 --> 00:43:59.360
<v Speaker 7>that we would be in one in this period in

859
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:04.880
<v Speaker 7>the second deck of the twenty first century. And oftentimes

860
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:06.960
<v Speaker 7>what characterizes these moments, like you say, is that there's

861
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:11.239
<v Speaker 7>not an obvious majority party in American political life. So

862
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.159
<v Speaker 7>most of the time, if you look in on the

863
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:16.639
<v Speaker 7>United States, there's a majority party that's holding together a

864
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:20.079
<v Speaker 7>complicated coalition. There's a minority party that's trying to broaden

865
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:24.960
<v Speaker 7>its coalition. They're both engaged in coalition building, and those

866
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:27.480
<v Speaker 7>phases kind of run out, and you reach a point

867
00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:30.960
<v Speaker 7>where neither party is engaged in coalition building, and our

868
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:33.960
<v Speaker 7>politics just feels totally dysfunctional. I think that's actually a

869
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:37.079
<v Speaker 7>great description of this moment. Neither party is engaged in

870
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:39.920
<v Speaker 7>coalition building. If you step back from them, they're not

871
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.920
<v Speaker 7>really trying to grow, They're trying to mobilize their existing

872
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:48.760
<v Speaker 7>base of voters, and this creates an enormous opportunity for

873
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:53.079
<v Speaker 7>political insight and political talent to build a real majority.

874
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:56.239
<v Speaker 7>I think a lot of politicians in this moment think

875
00:44:56.360 --> 00:44:58.920
<v Speaker 7>that can't be a majority again, even though they live

876
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.559
<v Speaker 7>through a paer. Look, Ronald Reagan won forty nine states

877
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:06.159
<v Speaker 7>in nineteen eighty four. Nobody imagines that's imaginable, that's achievable now.

878
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:09.960
<v Speaker 7>But a majority is absolutely achievable now.

879
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:10.880
<v Speaker 3>I think it's.

880
00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:16.079
<v Speaker 6>Something like a conservative populist working class party, Isn't that

881
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.639
<v Speaker 6>what it feels like is coming in.

882
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:21.519
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think both parties have an opportunity. I think

883
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:25.400
<v Speaker 7>Republicans have a bigger opportunity. It's easier to imagine Republicans

884
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:29.079
<v Speaker 7>being that party, but yeah, it would be the popular party,

885
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.559
<v Speaker 7>the party that speaks for the people in a kind

886
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:34.320
<v Speaker 7>of up down politics as much as left right. You know,

887
00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:37.960
<v Speaker 7>the traditional divide in democracy is the few and the many,

888
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:42.079
<v Speaker 7>and left right is a kind of modern addition onto that.

889
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:44.039
<v Speaker 7>But the few in the many is still the most

890
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:47.280
<v Speaker 7>powerful force in the life of a democracy, and our

891
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:50.719
<v Speaker 7>politics increasingly feels like a party of the elite and

892
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:54.000
<v Speaker 7>a party of the people. That obviously can be very unhealthy,

893
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:56.159
<v Speaker 7>and I think we're seeing it as unhealthy. Both the

894
00:45:56.199 --> 00:45:59.480
<v Speaker 7>elitism and the populism we have now are unhealthy. But

895
00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:03.639
<v Speaker 7>to fill a majority that somehow cuts across some of

896
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:06.920
<v Speaker 7>the familiar categories of the phase of our politics that's ending.

897
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.400
<v Speaker 7>And I'm not talking about eighty percent, but sixty percent.

898
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:13.679
<v Speaker 7>That's a big majority in American politics. I absolutely think

899
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.119
<v Speaker 7>that is achievable. And that's what the next phase looks like.

900
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:17.599
<v Speaker 6>I just want to say, I want to be with

901
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:20.000
<v Speaker 6>the elites because they all have the best stuff. But

902
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:23.199
<v Speaker 6>when the revolution comes, I'm switching. I'm going with Rob.

903
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:25.000
<v Speaker 6>Wherever Rob goes, I'm going with them.

904
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'm a I'm a survivor, John. And to push

905
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:32.440
<v Speaker 5>you off my bandwagon. Oh yeah, not that everybody. I

906
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:36.599
<v Speaker 5>can get this guy.

907
00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:42.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, we could get the entire country, forty nine states

908
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:44.559
<v Speaker 2>at least if we agreed with John Yu that the

909
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:49.039
<v Speaker 2>Mick rib should be available all year round in addition

910
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 2>to the Shamrock Shake or some of the popular menu items,

911
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that being John's thing.

912
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:52.960
<v Speaker 3>Right.

913
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Barring that, It's hard to see what issue it'll be,

914
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:59.239
<v Speaker 2>but we may find out. In the meantime, we recommend

915
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.400
<v Speaker 2>that everybody, since we are in this period a TwixT

916
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:06.199
<v Speaker 2>constitutional adherents at a national and social personal level.

917
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:08.119
<v Speaker 3>Read his book.

918
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:12.840
<v Speaker 2>The book is called American Covenant, How the Constitution Unified

919
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.320
<v Speaker 2>our Nation? And good again, I've all even thanks so

920
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:18.119
<v Speaker 2>much for joining us today. Fascinating conversation. We can go

921
00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:19.760
<v Speaker 2>on and on and on about it, and you know,

922
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:21.840
<v Speaker 2>we'll talk to you maybe before the next book.

923
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:24.119
<v Speaker 3>What is the next book? By the way, thank you

924
00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:24.519
<v Speaker 3>very much.

925
00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:25.880
<v Speaker 7>I appreciate it, though I have to said I don't

926
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:28.400
<v Speaker 7>appreciate that question because it's always a very hard question

927
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.440
<v Speaker 7>to answer right after writing this book. But time will tell.

928
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:34.039
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, I'll be in the newspaper business. Here.

929
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:34.840
<v Speaker 3>We're all about the list.

930
00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:37.760
<v Speaker 2>So i'd say that, you know, the Bill of Rights,

931
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:43.079
<v Speaker 2>pick five and five favorite five hottest rights in the

932
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:44.000
<v Speaker 2>turnat Bill Rights.

933
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:45.960
<v Speaker 6>There you go, no quartering, no quartering.

934
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Good for collects.

935
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:49.360
<v Speaker 3>Thanks you, thanks you all, thank you so much, thank

936
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:49.719
<v Speaker 3>you all.

937
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:54.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, yes, top down pleabs versus the patricians, all

938
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:57.159
<v Speaker 2>the rest of it, you know. But thanks to Marks,

939
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:01.280
<v Speaker 2>we have a we have elites work collectivists. That that's

940
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:05.000
<v Speaker 2>the strange thing, right right, prefer the old days when

941
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:06.719
<v Speaker 2>the elites would just simply leave the peasants to be

942
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:08.280
<v Speaker 2>in their fields and do what they want die as

943
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:10.199
<v Speaker 2>long as they pay their access and give.

944
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:11.880
<v Speaker 3>Their farthings and leaves to the king.

945
00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:14.960
<v Speaker 2>But no, we got to have this collective identity thanks

946
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:18.800
<v Speaker 2>to our betters and oh you know Dave os w

947
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:21.400
<v Speaker 2>EF all those places, all those crazy words.

948
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:22.639
<v Speaker 3>That we throw out there to say.

949
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:25.760
<v Speaker 2>And I don't believe that the WEF is actually anything

950
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:29.039
<v Speaker 2>more than just a sort of amusing collection of supervillains

951
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.679
<v Speaker 2>who just plot, who just tell you their stories out

952
00:48:31.719 --> 00:48:34.199
<v Speaker 2>and the the thing is that they always tell their

953
00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:37.559
<v Speaker 2>their plans about owning nothing in the fifteen minute city

954
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:40.519
<v Speaker 2>and you know, eating the bugs living in the pods.

955
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.519
<v Speaker 2>They always say these plans before they actually have James

956
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Bond strapped into the laser castration machine.

957
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right now.

958
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:50.800
<v Speaker 2>The thing about it, Yeah, you're supposed to reveal all

959
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.239
<v Speaker 2>that stuff when you got the guy where you want

960
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:54.840
<v Speaker 2>them and then you tell But no, they're out there

961
00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:57.760
<v Speaker 2>in the in the open telling us everything. In rickchhet

962
00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:59.480
<v Speaker 2>At the other day we were having a conversation about

963
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:02.239
<v Speaker 2>fifteen minut cities. I know Rob lives in one, I

964
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.000
<v Speaker 2>practically do. And the reason that I wanted to push

965
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:08.760
<v Speaker 2>back against people throwing fifteen minute cities out there.

966
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:11.920
<v Speaker 3>Maybe we talked about this before, I can't remember. It

967
00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:14.480
<v Speaker 3>has to do with that. It's not a bad idea.

968
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:17.679
<v Speaker 2>It really isn't to design places where you can get

969
00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:19.239
<v Speaker 2>around and you can walk, and you can get your

970
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:22.079
<v Speaker 2>groceries and you can go to a cafe in a

971
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:24.880
<v Speaker 2>bar drug store within fifteen minutes not having to get

972
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.840
<v Speaker 2>in your car. And the problem is a twofold one.

973
00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:33.159
<v Speaker 2>They use it as a means to bash the paradigm

974
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:35.440
<v Speaker 2>that a lot of people have happily adapted to, which

975
00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.639
<v Speaker 2>is the suburbs. People are completely content to live in

976
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:42.239
<v Speaker 2>the suburbs for a variety of reasons. And two, you

977
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:44.039
<v Speaker 2>have to be very very careful that it doesn't turn

978
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:49.440
<v Speaker 2>into a mechanism whereby this good idea, suffused with its

979
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.360
<v Speaker 2>moral purity, becomes a way of the state extracting more

980
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:56.159
<v Speaker 2>resources from you by putting, you know what, you can

981
00:49:56.239 --> 00:49:58.400
<v Speaker 2>drive out of your fifteen minute city elsewhere if you want,

982
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:00.760
<v Speaker 2>but you're going to pay a congestion stuff like that.

983
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:03.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it bothers me.

984
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.679
<v Speaker 2>How so many things that we that in your heart

985
00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:11.159
<v Speaker 2>and in your head you agree with stewardship of the environment. Uh,

986
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:14.400
<v Speaker 2>you know a end of the you know, the blight,

987
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.239
<v Speaker 2>visual blight of billboards, etc.

988
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:17.800
<v Speaker 3>All of these things.

989
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:20.199
<v Speaker 2>They've got an aspect to it that, yeah, it's good

990
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:21.840
<v Speaker 2>for all of us if we do this, But it

991
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:25.639
<v Speaker 2>becomes a dogmatic it becomes be a stocking horse for

992
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:29.400
<v Speaker 2>another ideology. See, it inevitably leads to the diminution of

993
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.760
<v Speaker 2>your freedom. And that's one of those crazy words that

994
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:34.800
<v Speaker 2>when you start throwing around, the younger generation starts to

995
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:38.039
<v Speaker 2>roll the Riyes, do you know what word is now

996
00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:41.559
<v Speaker 2>making the rounds as being sort of suss to the

997
00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:43.639
<v Speaker 2>young You guys, you have any idea? I mean, free

998
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:45.519
<v Speaker 2>and liberty. We know that that's what crazy people with

999
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the red hat say. What's a word that also gets

1000
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:48.519
<v Speaker 2>their hackles up?

1001
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:50.360
<v Speaker 3>Abundance?

1002
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:54.159
<v Speaker 5>Abundance? Yeah, that's right. I believe that. You know, there's

1003
00:50:54.199 --> 00:50:56.079
<v Speaker 5>no abundance. It's just shortages of everything.

1004
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:58.559
<v Speaker 3>We shouldn't have. No, well, we shouldn't have it.

1005
00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:00.599
<v Speaker 2>But first of all, we don't have abundance because we're

1006
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:01.840
<v Speaker 2>in a post capitalist hell.

1007
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:03.880
<v Speaker 3>But we shouldn't have abundance.

1008
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that's a philosophical question that they have.

1009
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:09.920
<v Speaker 1>It's a philosophical argument, but that's it is.

1010
00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:15.000
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it is absolutely the end product of everything

1011
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:18.480
<v Speaker 5>that we've been teaching them, which is that there's shortages

1012
00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:21.920
<v Speaker 5>so and that there's less and that the future is

1013
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:25.360
<v Speaker 5>going to be filled with challenges like the ocean's on fire.

1014
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:28.159
<v Speaker 2>You know what abundance means. Abundance means we turn the

1015
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:30.280
<v Speaker 2>light switch on, there's light. It means, and when you

1016
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:31.880
<v Speaker 2>turn the hot water on, there's hot. Well, that's what

1017
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:34.719
<v Speaker 2>abundance means. Actually we I mean, the things that we

1018
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:37.400
<v Speaker 2>take for granted are symbols of tremendous abundance and we need.

1019
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:38.480
<v Speaker 1>It also means that if.

1020
00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:42.039
<v Speaker 5>You do well right, then that isn't zero sum that

1021
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:44.719
<v Speaker 5>I could do well too. We believe that the country

1022
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:47.400
<v Speaker 5>grows and the economy grows, and rising tidle of salt

1023
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:49.239
<v Speaker 5>boats and they roll their eyes at that, but it

1024
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:53.360
<v Speaker 5>is in fact, demonstrably, unquestionably quantifiably the truth.

1025
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:53.800
<v Speaker 6>Right.

1026
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, well, Rob, we agree that is not enough. It

1027
00:51:56.320 --> 00:51:59.360
<v Speaker 2>is not enough for you and I to do well, John,

1028
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:00.440
<v Speaker 2>you must do poorly.

1029
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's the libraries.

1030
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:12.239
<v Speaker 6>Where idea, neither one other idea, James, about just trying

1031
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:15.239
<v Speaker 6>to draw from you know, what's going on in the academy. Stuff,

1032
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:17.920
<v Speaker 6>crazy stuff, I read. But you know, there's one big

1033
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:21.000
<v Speaker 6>stream of thought going into conservatives asking why do we

1034
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:23.960
<v Speaker 6>have cities at all? You know, now that we're decentralizing,

1035
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.719
<v Speaker 6>now they have worked from home, now that our economy

1036
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:29.719
<v Speaker 6>is based on the production of information, why do we

1037
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.480
<v Speaker 6>why do we need cities? Why do we all need

1038
00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:35.320
<v Speaker 6>to live together in these closely compacted, dense places with

1039
00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:39.519
<v Speaker 6>expensive housing prices. And so here's here's the alternate world.

1040
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:41.119
<v Speaker 6>And I thought You've always going to mention this, but

1041
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:45.400
<v Speaker 6>he didn't, which was the constitution actually is great for decentralization.

1042
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:48.000
<v Speaker 6>It's a great government for what Rob was saying, a

1043
00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:51.800
<v Speaker 6>large country with people all spread out and diverse communities.

1044
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.039
<v Speaker 6>And you think about the government we have now, you

1045
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:57.519
<v Speaker 6>think about the cities we have now that you're talking about, James,

1046
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.480
<v Speaker 6>that's mass production, factory style economics and society. That's not

1047
00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:06.719
<v Speaker 6>the way things organize anymore. No, maybe that's why that's

1048
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:09.239
<v Speaker 6>what I think, that's behind what you're talking about, James

1049
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:13.599
<v Speaker 6>about Well, these fifteen minute cities and suburbs, that's actually

1050
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:17.119
<v Speaker 6>a way station to going back to something that might

1051
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.559
<v Speaker 6>look an organization more like the eighteenth century again, which

1052
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:22.039
<v Speaker 6>is where Rob really wants to live.

1053
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:25.480
<v Speaker 5>Sure in a village. The villages are the most interesting places.

1054
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:28.519
<v Speaker 5>But I mean they're twin parts of the American experience

1055
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:29.639
<v Speaker 5>or just these are human nature.

1056
00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Right on the one hand, you want space. I want

1057
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:33.920
<v Speaker 1>my space. That's one of the things that people said

1058
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:34.360
<v Speaker 1>when they.

1059
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:37.800
<v Speaker 5>Left the dirty, stinking city and they went out to

1060
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:39.880
<v Speaker 5>the suburbs the first time. I mean after about like

1061
00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:42.480
<v Speaker 5>the thirties and forties and fifties, right, and like, look

1062
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:43.000
<v Speaker 5>at it.

1063
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:45.039
<v Speaker 1>I had a lawn, I got a front yard, I

1064
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:48.039
<v Speaker 1>got all this stuff, and that is incredibly powerful. That's

1065
00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:49.639
<v Speaker 1>a great thing. That's why people live.

1066
00:53:49.480 --> 00:53:51.800
<v Speaker 6>In Europe too, right, Yeah, because in Europe, the source

1067
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:53.400
<v Speaker 6>of wealth was just having land.

1068
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:56.599
<v Speaker 5>And that's some people didn't want to Some people wanted

1069
00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:58.079
<v Speaker 5>to be in the city. Actually when they were young,

1070
00:53:58.119 --> 00:53:59.519
<v Speaker 5>and they want to be with other young people. They

1071
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:00.960
<v Speaker 5>wanted to be in It's kind of crazy. They were

1072
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:03.719
<v Speaker 5>willing to put up with it. And there's these two characters.

1073
00:54:03.719 --> 00:54:06.239
<v Speaker 5>There's this you know, there's the urban dweller and then

1074
00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:10.519
<v Speaker 5>there's the suburban choice. And then there's another human person

1075
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:14.880
<v Speaker 5>that's always there and that's the hoa head, right, that's

1076
00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:20.239
<v Speaker 5>the hoa busybody, and that is more than more I

1077
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:23.760
<v Speaker 5>think than any other image is what people think about

1078
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:27.840
<v Speaker 5>when they think about the sort of the progressive left,

1079
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:30.039
<v Speaker 5>like this, these are there. They're going to walk around

1080
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:34.119
<v Speaker 5>the neighborhood and write your note because they don't like

1081
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:36.199
<v Speaker 5>your curtains or they don't like this, whether you put

1082
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:37.880
<v Speaker 5>up pum or you have a planter that's not the

1083
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:41.280
<v Speaker 5>right color. And I think that is also very human

1084
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.119
<v Speaker 5>like humans like to do that, we like to boss

1085
00:54:43.159 --> 00:54:45.920
<v Speaker 5>each other around. But that is also part of this

1086
00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:50.239
<v Speaker 5>kind of like small minded, limited mentality that if you

1087
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:53.440
<v Speaker 5>have this thing, we're all going to suffer. You look

1088
00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:54.360
<v Speaker 5>like you're having fun.

1089
00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:58.519
<v Speaker 1>That's not good. And you know, unfortunately, culturally, I.

1090
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.679
<v Speaker 5>Think think we're probably on the hope, we're on the

1091
00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:04.400
<v Speaker 5>down side of that cycle, and we're coming back up

1092
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:07.639
<v Speaker 5>to the what I think the normal American view, which is,

1093
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:10.719
<v Speaker 5>go do you do you but as quietly as you

1094
00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:12.679
<v Speaker 5>possibly can do it, because I'm trying to get you know,

1095
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:13.239
<v Speaker 5>some sleeves.

1096
00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:16.800
<v Speaker 6>If you're happy if Kamala Harris's president, you just don't

1097
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:19.039
<v Speaker 6>want it to be head of the city council of

1098
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:19.559
<v Speaker 6>your town.

1099
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:24.599
<v Speaker 5>Well, I actually think that when Americans vote. You know,

1100
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:28.800
<v Speaker 5>if you look at the best of the probably the

1101
00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:34.039
<v Speaker 5>most interesting, and see change. Political changes in my lifetime

1102
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:37.880
<v Speaker 5>happened when Bill Clinton was president and the Republicans took

1103
00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:39.840
<v Speaker 5>the House and they took the Senate. And that's when

1104
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.679
<v Speaker 5>we got well for reform, and that's when we got

1105
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:45.119
<v Speaker 5>actually institutional congressional reform in a major way. I mean,

1106
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:48.360
<v Speaker 5>it now seems like a cliche, but the Newt Gingrich's

1107
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:54.239
<v Speaker 5>Contract with America was a radically, radically influential and successful document.

1108
00:55:54.840 --> 00:55:59.159
<v Speaker 5>And you know, people kind of like this gridlock stuff,

1109
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:01.480
<v Speaker 5>but they also they do like sticking it to the

1110
00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:06.320
<v Speaker 5>guy at the top. And I you know, if Kamala

1111
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:08.320
<v Speaker 5>Harris wins, which would not be surprising.

1112
00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:11.280
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1113
00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:15.559
<v Speaker 5>I don't think that the conservative movement's dead.

1114
00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't think the conservative reforms are dead. I think

1115
00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:18.760
<v Speaker 1>they might be even invigorated.

1116
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:21.960
<v Speaker 3>I've never before.

1117
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we should lose this election because then people will

1118
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:27.920
<v Speaker 2>get really good and they'll realize that.

1119
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:29.159
<v Speaker 3>I know, I'm kidding, I'm kidding him.

1120
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:30.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying that that it's possible.

1121
00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:33.760
<v Speaker 5>The problem with both sides is they think it's inconceivable

1122
00:56:33.800 --> 00:56:36.320
<v Speaker 5>that they're going to lose either now or in the future,

1123
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:38.360
<v Speaker 5>and they think that once you vote for your once

1124
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:40.400
<v Speaker 5>you voted for my guy for president, whether it's Kamala

1125
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:43.559
<v Speaker 5>Harris or Donald Trump, if forever you're just all the

1126
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:45.039
<v Speaker 5>things are going to be fixed and you're never going

1127
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:47.960
<v Speaker 5>to have any trouble at all. And that's the ultimately,

1128
00:56:48.039 --> 00:56:49.719
<v Speaker 5>just go back to the Constitution. That's the problem with

1129
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:52.440
<v Speaker 5>our interpreting the Constitution, which people think of it, interpret

1130
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:55.039
<v Speaker 5>it only as this document that keeps them from getting

1131
00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:57.519
<v Speaker 5>what they want, when in fact, it's a document that

1132
00:56:57.599 --> 00:57:00.960
<v Speaker 5>keeps you from getting what you want. And that's kind

1133
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.599
<v Speaker 5>of how it's supposed to work, right. It restricts you

1134
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:07.760
<v Speaker 5>and not me, that's primarily what it does. So you know,

1135
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:12.199
<v Speaker 5>we should be prepared not maybe we'll win, maybe the

1136
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:14.800
<v Speaker 5>Conservatives will win in twenty twenty four, maybe they'll lose, but.

1137
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:19.199
<v Speaker 1>They are going to lose elections in the future. So

1138
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:20.559
<v Speaker 1>how do you prepare for that?

1139
00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:22.719
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1140
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:26.239
<v Speaker 2>I just do know that if we have a massive

1141
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:28.679
<v Speaker 2>attack on Israel by Iran in the next week or so,

1142
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I would really be keen to know.

1143
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:31.639
<v Speaker 3>Who's calling the shots here.

1144
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:33.679
<v Speaker 2>Something tells me I ought to be the guy who

1145
00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:36.760
<v Speaker 2>is called the president but I'm wondering if this is

1146
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.079
<v Speaker 2>going to be an opportunity for them to show count

1147
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:46.679
<v Speaker 2>Layers is foreign policy six dimensional chest shops and have

1148
00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:47.639
<v Speaker 2>her in charge.

1149
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:49.840
<v Speaker 3>Of what the American reaction to this is going to be.

1150
00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Or Biden will just get on the wrong plane again

1151
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.440
<v Speaker 2>and be whisked off to someplace and we'll never see

1152
00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:55.840
<v Speaker 2>him again.

1153
00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:56.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I don't know.

1154
00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:00.199
<v Speaker 2>I'd like a little bit more clarity at the top. Ever,

1155
00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:02.679
<v Speaker 2>it is the top of the top of the hour,

1156
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:05.039
<v Speaker 2>end of the show. Usually we tell you right now

1157
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:06.719
<v Speaker 2>where they're going to be meet ups around the country.

1158
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:08.320
<v Speaker 2>But you know what, you can go and read that

1159
00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:11.119
<v Speaker 2>att You should go and read that at Ricochet along

1160
00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:13.320
<v Speaker 2>with everything else, and you should join as well, because

1161
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.800
<v Speaker 2>on the member feed, where all kinds of friendships are made,

1162
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:19.800
<v Speaker 2>in every single discussion and object of controversy and art

1163
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:21.840
<v Speaker 2>and music and the rest of it, you'll find it there.

1164
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:24.360
<v Speaker 2>You can hear me in my podcast The Diner, which

1165
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:27.559
<v Speaker 2>is available on Saturday. I think we're talking about dogs

1166
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:30.920
<v Speaker 2>and renaming streets, two vital crackling topics.

1167
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.800
<v Speaker 6>You want to stop the presses, it's the same same subject,

1168
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:35.880
<v Speaker 6>stop the presses.

1169
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:37.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's another whole issue. Maybe I'll get a shit

1170
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:39.239
<v Speaker 3>name the streets after dogs.

1171
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:42.159
<v Speaker 2>Why didn't that occur to me? Well, you know what,

1172
00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:43.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna rip it up. I'm gonna go back. I'm

1173
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:46.840
<v Speaker 2>gonna do it the you collar me as we call it,

1174
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:48.119
<v Speaker 2>and read the show.

1175
00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:50.320
<v Speaker 6>I can totally see you living on Poodle Street.

1176
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Come on one.

1177
00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:58.440
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm off.

1178
00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:01.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm really really is.

1179
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:02.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well I think they have to have more here

1180
00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:07.039
<v Speaker 2>than I actually do, so well it's better than Pug Place.

1181
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:09.679
<v Speaker 3>Uh, John, Rob, It's been a pleasure.

1182
00:59:09.760 --> 00:59:12.280
<v Speaker 2>We'll see you both next week perhaps, and we'll see

1183
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:15.920
<v Speaker 2>everybody in the comments at Ricochet four point zero next week.

1184
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:18.239
<v Speaker 6>Bye, guys, thanks for having me.

1185
00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:21.239
<v Speaker 1>Thanks John excellent as always, absolutely so.

1186
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:28.159
<v Speaker 3>Ricochet Pea join the conversation.