1 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,079 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,839 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,239 --> 00:00:32,240 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:36,280 the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST. 6 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,840 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,039 --> 00:00:43,719 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:44,359 --> 00:00:48,799 Our guest today is Joe Abraham. He's not a politician 9 00:00:49,399 --> 00:00:55,119 or a powerful bureaucrat, an author, or a celebrity. Joe 10 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:01,119 Abraham is a dad from glen View, Illinois. In January, 11 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,159 his daughter Katie, his youngest child, was killed in a 12 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,599 car crash near the University of Illinois Orbannon. She was twenty. 13 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:13,439 The man accused of taking Katie's life and the life 14 00:01:13,439 --> 00:01:17,799 of another young woman is a previously deported illegal alien 15 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,560 who police say fled from the scene of the crash. 16 00:01:21,439 --> 00:01:24,799 He was later apprehended on his way to the southern border. 17 00:01:25,719 --> 00:01:30,920 Last week, Joe Abraham was the guest of the chairman 18 00:01:31,519 --> 00:01:36,959 of the powerful Oversight and Government Reform Committee, James Comer, 19 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,079 and that committee they had on the hot seat. Three 20 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:47,680 governors in what is viewed by most as sanctuary states, 21 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:54,959 in Minnesota, New York, and in Joe Abraham's own Illinois, 22 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:01,680 where Democrat JB. Pritzker presides as governor. All three of 23 00:02:01,719 --> 00:02:07,159 these politicians have said, or their policies have indicated that 24 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:10,919 they will not, at least at some level, work with 25 00:02:11,159 --> 00:02:19,599 federal law enforcement authorities to apprehend, detain, or bring into 26 00:02:19,719 --> 00:02:27,360 custody in general, illegal immigrants, including criminal illegal immigrants. That's 27 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,120 a difficult thing to hear for people like Joe Abraham. 28 00:02:32,479 --> 00:02:35,639 He joins us now on this edition of the Federalist 29 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:38,240 Radio Hour. Good day, sir, thank you so much for 30 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:39,639 joining us. 31 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,319 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Matt appreciate it. 32 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,599 Speaker 1: Before we get into what you saw you experienced on 33 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:50,319 Capitol Hill last week, let us go back. And as 34 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,599 I told you before we started our recorded conversation, and 35 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:57,240 I've told you many times, it hurts my heart that 36 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,479 we have to talk about this because that means we 37 00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:03,319 have to bring it all up again. But I think 38 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,840 people need to know your story, and I think our 39 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:11,400 listeners know that you are not alone sadly on this front. 40 00:03:12,039 --> 00:03:15,280 Take us back, please, what happened in January of this year. 41 00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so January, the weekend of January eighteenth, Katie and 42 00:03:21,039 --> 00:03:23,159 a friend of hers went down to University of Illinois 43 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:26,120 to visit other friends. There were five in the car 44 00:03:26,599 --> 00:03:32,159 and they were at a stoplight and Julio kugle Bowl 45 00:03:32,439 --> 00:03:36,800 driving the SUV, slammed into the car at seventy eight 46 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,439 miles an hour. Now, the electronics in the car, I 47 00:03:41,439 --> 00:03:44,800 guess the police can look at sort of almost like 48 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,400 a black box. There was no swerving, there was no breaking, 49 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,360 It was just you know, I think it was like 50 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:52,840 zero point five seconds. That might have been a break 51 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,520 put on. So he hit the car at seventy eight 52 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,960 miles an hour. Now, he was allegedly intoxicated. He's been charged. 53 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:05,000 One of the charges relate to that. So the next 54 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,680 that was early Sunday morning, we get a phone call 55 00:04:07,719 --> 00:04:13,039 from a urbanon detective that Katie's dead. You know, this 56 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,319 is what happens. 57 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: So it was, you know, it's it's the call no parent. 58 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,040 I know this is said over and over again. It 59 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,639 almost sounds trite, but when you hear it, there is 60 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,519 nothing like it. It is the phone call no parent 61 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,279 ever ever wants to get, and no parent with any 62 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,600 heart would ever want any parent to have to receive. 63 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: I don't even know how to explain it. It's something 64 00:04:37,399 --> 00:04:40,560 I've never felt before in my life. You kind of 65 00:04:40,639 --> 00:04:42,879 think about it sometimes with kids when they're out and 66 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:48,120 about Yeah it is. It is like literally no words, 67 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,480 And I wish I could tell you and your audience 68 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,199 what it's like, but there's just nothing like it. There's 69 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,680 there's literally when they say no words, that's really what 70 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,160 it was. So, you know, the sad thing is we 71 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,839 had to drive up to her sisters at Central Michigan. 72 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,319 She was going to school up there, so we had 73 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,720 to drive up there that day to tell her face 74 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,879 to face. We didn't want to hear her to hear 75 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,040 it in any other way. And you know, Katie and 76 00:05:17,079 --> 00:05:19,959 her sister were like best friend. They're year apart, they're 77 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,959 best friends, you know, they My goodness, the loss she 78 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,279 suffered with that is just heartbreak in there. So it's 79 00:05:28,399 --> 00:05:33,879 almost like Matt, it's almost going through it twice, I guess. Yeah, 80 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,839 it's so devastating to to, you know, see both of 81 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,680 them in this spot. 82 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I can, I can understand to a point. 83 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,480 It's something that I would never ever want to imagine, 84 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,680 as you say, every parent you know thinks about it 85 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,519 sometimes keeps us up at night. What if you get 86 00:05:54,519 --> 00:05:56,560 that phone call and the kids are out on the 87 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,360 highway or whatever. But so after after you get this 88 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,040 phone called, then what happens? 89 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: Did you know? 90 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: Were you informed right away that they believe the suspect 91 00:06:09,959 --> 00:06:15,920 had fled and that the suspect indeed was not legally 92 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,120 a resident of the United States of America and should 93 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,759 not have been here in the first place. 94 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to hang up when I first got 95 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:29,040 the news. I told the detective I have to call 96 00:06:29,079 --> 00:06:31,920 them back. I had the process, you're sort of in 97 00:06:31,959 --> 00:06:35,399 a fog, you don't really you can't really think straight, 98 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,639 and I didn't want any more details until I pulled 99 00:06:39,639 --> 00:06:43,319 myself somewhat together. Sure, so I called them back and 100 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,279 wanted to know, like what would happened, and they kind 101 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,959 of went through it, and I said, well, do you 102 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,519 have the suspect? What's the details around that? And when 103 00:06:52,519 --> 00:06:57,040 she said, well, the suspect fled on foot. Now knowing 104 00:06:57,199 --> 00:07:03,240 we're in the sanctuary state where ye, you know, sort 105 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,040 of well, I don't want to say welcome because it's 106 00:07:05,079 --> 00:07:08,480 not really the word it's just that we protect folks 107 00:07:08,519 --> 00:07:11,600 that probably shouldn't be in the state. So I sort 108 00:07:11,639 --> 00:07:17,079 of had the feeling and that, oh boy, he's looking 109 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,560 to get out of the country. Is that right? And 110 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:21,920 they said, well, we're getting into it, and we are 111 00:07:21,959 --> 00:07:23,920 looking at it and it looks like he may have 112 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,560 fled Urbana, and you know, we have every all hands 113 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,800 on deck. You know, they spoke to the federal side, 114 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,800 the US marshals, and indeed he was an a legal 115 00:07:35,839 --> 00:07:38,759 immigrant and they caught him sort of between Dallas and 116 00:07:38,959 --> 00:07:41,000 Mexico's my understanding. Mm hmm. 117 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting too, Joe, because you talk about and 118 00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:51,160 that's what this hearing this past week was about sanctuary states, 119 00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:54,399 but you were dealing with law enforcement officials who were 120 00:07:54,439 --> 00:07:59,639 dealing with the reality of Urbana, Illinois, being a sanctuary city. 121 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,399 I mean, several years ago, the city council voted that 122 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,240 they would in certain ways not cooperate with ice with 123 00:08:08,399 --> 00:08:13,000 Immigration Customs enforcement, and they set it up that way 124 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,480 in their vote. We're a welcoming city. We welcome you know, everybody, 125 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,920 including people who are here, as they say, undocumented migrants, 126 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,240 illegal aliens. They're welcome, and you know, we're not going 127 00:08:29,279 --> 00:08:34,279 to assist law enforcement officials in apprehending them for violating 128 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,919 the law. So I'm curious what that conversation was, like, 129 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,080 did the officer tell you right away or did she 130 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,279 have to kind of protect that information given the status 131 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,559 of the sanctuary city. 132 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:53,759 Speaker 2: So she did. The detective did say that they believed 133 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:59,399 he was undocumented and they are trying to locate him, 134 00:08:59,799 --> 00:09:02,600 you know. Other than that initially, that's sort of all 135 00:09:02,639 --> 00:09:06,000 the information they had. Look, he's and we feel he's undocumented. 136 00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:10,279 I believe he was deported back in the twenty eighteen 137 00:09:10,639 --> 00:09:12,960 sort of range. I don't know exact the exact year, 138 00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:17,360 but came back in in twenty twenty two under an alias. 139 00:09:17,759 --> 00:09:20,320 Which is frustrating because if again, you had a front 140 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:23,000 end process, regardless of the laws, if you had some 141 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,080 kind of a rational process that audited or vetted folks 142 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,519 coming in on the front end. The fact that he 143 00:09:30,639 --> 00:09:33,000 was coming in under an alias, and the FEDS knew 144 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,120 that he had this alias, that's the other thing. The 145 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,799 Feds knew that, and then that there was no I 146 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:40,000 don't know if there's communications or the state didn't care. 147 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,720 I don't know how that kind of fell through their cracks. 148 00:09:42,759 --> 00:09:45,879 But you would think that if someone using an alias 149 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:48,840 who had previously been deported, if you had a front 150 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,360 end process, you would have caught that, and Katie would 151 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:52,159 be with me today. 152 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: And of course these are not necessarily things that you're 153 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,480 thinking about at that time. Over the last several months, 154 00:09:59,519 --> 00:10:01,399 you've been thinking a lot about that. In fact, that 155 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,200 is part of what you have been talking about now 156 00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:09,440 for for some time. This front end process, you know, 157 00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:17,080 a better vetting process. But what did you think? I guess, ultimately, 158 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,879 this is the question, did it make a difference to 159 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:27,799 you the immigration status of this individual? Because ultimately, whether 160 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,240 it was an American citizen or a non citizen, the 161 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:36,240 result is the same. But I keep hearing from the 162 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:44,759 people who support wide open borders and sanctuary jurisdictions. 163 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:45,759 Speaker 2: You know that. 164 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,519 Speaker 1: The legal immigrants aren't committing crimes at higher levels than citizens, 165 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,960 which patently is false if you look at the crime statistics. 166 00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:00,600 But all of that said, they're argument is, you know, 167 00:11:00,639 --> 00:11:03,519 there are a lot of very good illegal immigrants. They're 168 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,159 only act of breaking the law, if they even accept that, 169 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:10,840 is that they came here and are undocumented, they broke 170 00:11:10,879 --> 00:11:14,519 immigration law. They're good, hardworking people, all of these you've 171 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,759 heard all of this sort of thing. But I think 172 00:11:16,799 --> 00:11:21,360 the argument that is hard to defend for these folks 173 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,159 is the crime. The crimes would not have been committed 174 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,639 had the individual not been here illegally in the first place. 175 00:11:32,519 --> 00:11:36,080 I know that that has certainly gone through your mind 176 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,759 over these last several months. 177 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the frustrating thing. I know. During the hearing, 178 00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:46,919 my governor would talk about that that you know, there 179 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,519 was a lot of contradictions, but he would say, hey, 180 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,159 you know, if you know we are sanctuary, we take 181 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,720 care of every resident, and if someone breaks the law, 182 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,480 then they will be process, they will be you know, 183 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:05,600 they'll be tried and convicted in that whole thing, right, 184 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:08,320 And to your point, my point was, you know you 185 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,360 shouldn't have been here. Why do we have to wait 186 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,279 if you pull in the people that are going to 187 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,960 do wrong? And I think you can kind of vet that. 188 00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:17,759 I think in the front end, I believe you have 189 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,279 to be able to have a process to do that. 190 00:12:19,879 --> 00:12:22,639 But why are you okay with sort of everybody and 191 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,879 anybody and then knowing or expecting some of these folks 192 00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:30,679 and it's true some of them have behaved poorly but 193 00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:33,559 now you have to deal with them and the whole 194 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,399 situation on this back end, which is so much tougher 195 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,360 as you can see, like you have lawsuits. I have 196 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:41,399 to like, I will suffer the rest of my life. 197 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,600 I don't know how much time I've got left, but 198 00:12:43,639 --> 00:12:46,080 it will never be the same Katie. And we had 199 00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:48,320 plans for you know, when I was kind of done 200 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,960 working what we would do a lot of things. And 201 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,919 that's just not going to happen anymore, right, So I 202 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:56,120 have to deal with that, and that's on the back end. 203 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,600 I really believe if you had a process, even at 204 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,879 the state level, this wouldn't have happened. So I felt very, 205 00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:09,919 very discouraged that they're saying we're just gonna let everybody in. 206 00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:13,799 You know, they don't they don't they cause crimes lesson citizens, 207 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:15,200 and if they do a crime, then we're going to 208 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,120 take care of it. And my point was, if we're 209 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,840 already having crimes and gangs and all that within the citizens, 210 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:24,240 I can't do much about that. They're citizens, right, but 211 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,919 why are we importing more that we could actually filter out. 212 00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:30,279 You can distill it down to the people that actually 213 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,480 want to be here, be productive, be good citizens and 214 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:36,519 not sort of take advantage of the system and you 215 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:41,600 know us, you know, just kind of suffering the the 216 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,039 the carnage that happens with some of the stuff that 217 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,960 happened with the undocumented. And yeah, and one other thing. 218 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,639 I was worried. So people always tell me, oh, you'd 219 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:55,440 feel better with a citizen doing it. I'd say, the 220 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,639 only thing with that is, at least I know a citizen, 221 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,519 probably very much so, doesn't have the same advantages of 222 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,279 escaping as an undocumented So at least I have a 223 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:11,000 better chance to get justice, some justice. It's not going 224 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,519 to be full justice with a citizen that I do. 225 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,759 Within he was, he was probably a few hours away 226 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,080 from getting away, right, So that's that's the other that's 227 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:20,679 the other hook. 228 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,159 Speaker 3: This is Molly Hemingway of The Federalist, Join Me My Husband, 229 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,919 Mark of Real Clear Investigations, CNN political commentator Scott Jennings, 230 00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:36,639 doctor Carl Truman of Grove City College, and others for 231 00:14:36,679 --> 00:14:40,720 the twenty twenty five Making the Case Conference Friday July 232 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,399 eighteenth and Saturday July nineteenth at Concordia University Chicago. Learn 233 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,919 more at Issues Etc. Dot org. Making the Case July 234 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,080 eighteenth and nineteenth in Chicago Issues, etc. 235 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: Dot Org. 236 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:02,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say. I mean, 237 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,200 this was an individual who was very close to escaping 238 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,919 justice or whatever justice comes. And that's the other part 239 00:15:10,919 --> 00:15:16,639 of this. When Governor JB. Pritzker, who has had some 240 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:22,879 very incendiary language for ICE and for President Trump's enforcement measures, 241 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:28,039 finally a president who is enforcing the immigration laws. That's 242 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:32,120 a departure from what we have experienced for a long 243 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,360 time in this country, particularly after four years of what 244 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,840 can only be described as an invasion of illegal immigrants 245 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:44,039 in this country. Exactly what you're talking about, no real check, 246 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,000 no audit, no vetting on the front end, and then 247 00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:52,000 on the back end. Well, we have stories of Katie Abraham, 248 00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:56,320 and we have so many different stories, say their names. 249 00:15:56,799 --> 00:15:57,519 Speaker 2: But when JB. 250 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: Pritzker in that hearing last week talks about, hey, if 251 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,759 they're criminals, if they do something, engage in criminal activity, 252 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,759 then they're going to have the go through the court system. Well, 253 00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:13,960 guess what we've learned over the past several months, as 254 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:20,120 we've actually enforced the laws. The Department of Homeland Security 255 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,639 and ICE are actually going after these violent illegal immigrants 256 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,840 it's they've been through the Chicago and Illinois court systems, 257 00:16:28,879 --> 00:16:32,480 the Minneapolis court systems, the New York City court systems. 258 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:39,960 They should have been in jail, but some leftist prosecutor 259 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,840 giving sanctuary decided that they didn't really need to be 260 00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:47,519 in jail after committing or being accused of some very 261 00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:51,600 violent crimes. I mean, we've seen so many repeat violent 262 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:56,200 offenders who are let out free. That is to me, 263 00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:01,200 the lie that we're hearing from these governs, from these 264 00:17:01,399 --> 00:17:05,920 sanctuary supporters now trying to hide as they, you know, 265 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:12,119 face the congressional panels under oath. What did you think 266 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:18,920 about that hearing and hearing other stories of Americans like 267 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:22,839 you who have lost family members to violent crimes, or 268 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:30,359 they have daughters who have been brutally raped, or the 269 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,119 stories are just horrific and they're too many. 270 00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:36,799 Speaker 2: No, I agree with you on that. I mean being 271 00:17:36,839 --> 00:17:39,599 at the hearing and not only seeing what happened in 272 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:45,240 the committee meeting, but talking to lawmakers before that, and 273 00:17:45,519 --> 00:17:48,359 you see so many stories that you like, I didn't. 274 00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:52,160 I'm not. You know, it tuned into everything that's going on, 275 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,880 but I didn't realize it was that much, right, So 276 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,839 it was like that was sort of a surprise, like, 277 00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:00,279 holy cow, this is really going on and a lot 278 00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:02,960 of places, and it's happening a lot And to your point, exactly, 279 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,720 a lot of these have gone through the court system 280 00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:08,680 and they're still out and about right, even with an 281 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,680 undocumented status. For example, not only did the person that 282 00:18:12,759 --> 00:18:16,000 killed Katie come into the country under an ALIAS, they 283 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,240 should have caught him there, but he had been pulled 284 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,960 over in Illinois with the ALIAS documentation and then driving 285 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:29,640 without a driver's license. But I don't think anything happened, 286 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,839 like like, nothing happened on that. So there was a 287 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,200 couple of chances. I think that you could have stopped 288 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,599 this guy and Katie would be alive. I suspect that 289 00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:42,240 story is similar in a lot of these other cases, 290 00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:46,279 which is again discouraging, because you know you can't. It's 291 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,160 so again I've become so cynical now, like the last 292 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,559 four years, they're telling one side's telling us that there's 293 00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:56,559 nothing we can do unless we get this new law 294 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,920 or comprehensive immigration reform, and we got to have all 295 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,039 this other stuff. But that was never true, right, and 296 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:10,160 it was completely a fake out. It was look at today, 297 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,359 the border seems to be pretty stable, right. You didn't 298 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,559 need any new laws to do that, And it's certainly 299 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:21,599 not compassionate what happened over the last four years. For example, 300 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,880 the cartel has a multi billion dollar industry that our 301 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,400 government set up for them moving people around. That seems 302 00:19:28,599 --> 00:19:31,200 very weird to me that that's okay. And then you 303 00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:33,720 have all these children. I don't know, maybe the numbers 304 00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:36,240 not three, four, five hundred thousand, maybe it's less, but 305 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,240 somewhere between zero and five hundred thousand, any number in 306 00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:45,160 between there, Matt is unacceptable. Yah, apparently that's acceptable. But 307 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,000 we were lied to for four years and then, you know, 308 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,119 folks like us have to suffer now the rest of 309 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:51,680 our lives. 310 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, you were absolutely right, Joe. We were lied to 311 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,400 on so many different fronts, but none more so than 312 00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:05,319 on the compassion project that they try to bill it as. 313 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,640 I think there are a lot of rightfully cynical people 314 00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:12,799 who believe that the past four years was nothing more 315 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,680 than trying to build a contingency for a dying Democratic party. 316 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,359 That's a topic I think that we can address at 317 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,000 another time. But you've talked to me about this, and 318 00:20:24,079 --> 00:20:29,119 you've talked to lawmakers about this and others about that 319 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:34,880 compassion element. And I want to get into that because 320 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,759 we're talking about illegal immigration, we're not talking about legal 321 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:45,000 immigration and following the law and following the process. We'll 322 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:47,839 do that in just a moment. Our guest today is 323 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:54,480 Joe Abraham. No politician, no powerful bureaucrat. He is a dad, 324 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,400 a dad who is grieving along with the rest of 325 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,960 his family and the loss of Joe's daughter, Katie, twenty 326 00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:06,759 years old. Police say she was killed along with another 327 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:12,079 young woman twenty one years old, in a car crash 328 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,519 around the University of Illinois, Urbana in January. The man 329 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:22,440 accused of taking Katie's life was a previously deported illegal alien. 330 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:27,160 We are talking obviously about the enforcement efforts now unto 331 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:34,079 the Trump administration, the mess that has been left for 332 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:39,519 America to clean up the previous four years. And I 333 00:21:39,519 --> 00:21:42,240 want to get to this. You have told me on 334 00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:46,359 several occasions. You've told other media outlets that your parents, 335 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:52,640 your dad, immigrated to this country many years ago. He 336 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,720 did so through the legal process. You have been cleared. 337 00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:01,559 You have nothing against immigration, obviously, but you have everything 338 00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:05,319 against what we have experienced in this country for so long, 339 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,240 particularly the previous four years. 340 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,759 Speaker 2: Agree, it is exactly right. It's my folks came over 341 00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:17,359 in the sixties. It took years, right, a few years 342 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,640 to get here legally, and they've sort of followed the rules. 343 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,160 And I've got no problem with that. Just again, set 344 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,519 up that process where it's not a free for all 345 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:30,599 of the Wild West, where anybody and everybody comes in 346 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,079 and you know, all of a sudden, we have more gangs, 347 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,319 we have more you know, it just doesn't make sense. 348 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:41,240 Cartels have new industries and money making schemes, and you know, 349 00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:44,960 you wonder what's it, what's it for at the end 350 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,599 of the day. Because here's my frustration, Matt, with what 351 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:51,839 happened over the last four years and and and what's 352 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,839 going to happen in the future. I think this is 353 00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:58,440 the way they behaved and the way they've lied has 354 00:22:58,519 --> 00:23:02,880 so soured the American people on immigration that people in 355 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,519 the future now are going to suffer because you thought 356 00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:08,400 you had some short term gain, that you were going 357 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,599 to lie to people, you were going to flood the zone. Right, 358 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,680 And maybe they feel okay, getting fifteen twenty million people 359 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,799 in here, they don't need any more going forward, But 360 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,559 I'm frustrated that, you know, immigrants in the future, good 361 00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:23,440 people will not be able or will be more difficult 362 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,640 to come in because of what happened over the last 363 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,119 four years. So I don't think they were playing the 364 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,359 long game. Match. Maybe you've got some insight as to 365 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,880 why they took the short end and flooded the zone 366 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,920 and made the American lied to them and frustrated them, 367 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:40,519 and they were going to continue. I think it would 368 00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:44,279 have continued another four years if Donald Trump wasn't elected. 369 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,039 So maybe you've got some insight on what that was 370 00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:50,440 all about, because I really do think now the long term, 371 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,920 I don't think you have the American people on the 372 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,799 immigration side, which is I think to me very unfortunate. 373 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: No, it would have continued, and I think about that. 374 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,720 I think about that quite frequently. What would this country 375 00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:08,480 be like right now under President Kamala Harris the borders 376 00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:11,480 are if you recall, And I do think there was 377 00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:16,559 a short term game being played, a strategy for a 378 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:22,119 long term solution to their political issues and problems. I 379 00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:25,680 do believe, and I don't think I'm alone in this position, 380 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,759 And I think if Democrats were honest in Democrats and 381 00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:34,039 position of the power. They would tell you that they 382 00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:39,119 were looking at building their base their constituency. Ultimately there 383 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:45,160 would be a sweeping amnesty because you couldn't possibly right 384 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:52,480 enforce the law, apprehend and deport illegal immigrants. Well, now 385 00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,000 they're learning that you can do that, but it always 386 00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:59,319 takes the will of the American people and what the 387 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,039 American people pople have experienced in this country, principally by 388 00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:08,440 what you and other victims have experienced in this country. 389 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,319 Americans in November obviously said on that front, among others, 390 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,079 enough is enough. I want to get to the hearing. Actually, 391 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:25,119 you had an interesting experience the night before last Thursday's hearing, 392 00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:29,079 which was quite a doozy. I understand it. I followed 393 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,039 some of it. It was about eight hours and a 394 00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:34,599 lot of testimony and these governors squirming on the hot seat. 395 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,799 You actually met with one of the governors who would 396 00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:41,000 testify it that hearing the night before. Tell us a 397 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:41,839 little bit about that. 398 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we were there Wednesday, We had phone and 399 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,160 Wednesday morning we met with some lawmakers on a lot 400 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,279 of staff and attorneys that kind of thing, and it 401 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,400 was a you know, kind of a long day. So 402 00:25:54,279 --> 00:25:56,519 my wife and I decided, you know, we're just going 403 00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:58,640 to kind of break away. Let's go have dinner, you 404 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,640 and I, you know, my wife and I alone and 405 00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:03,960 just kind of unwind and get ready for the next day. 406 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,480 So we went to a local restaurant a little bit, 407 00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:10,279 you know, not too close to the capitol, Matt. We 408 00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:12,279 thought we'd go maybe a couple of miles away so 409 00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:15,240 we wouldn't run into anybody. Sure, And we sat there 410 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,480 and we were about to eat our dinner, and then 411 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,559 the table next to us we can literally reach out. 412 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,240 Governor Walls and some of his folks sit down at 413 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,799 that table. I'm like, are you kidding me? 414 00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: We're Tim Walls. Governor Tim Walls, the governor of Minnesota. 415 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,000 He's one of the three governors, the sanctuary governors appearing 416 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,559 the next day at this hearing. And there you are 417 00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:42,079 sitting right across the table. Basically, that's right. 418 00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: So I did. I did. I told my wife, you 419 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,519 know what, I gotta get up and I've gotta talk 420 00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:49,519 to him a little bit. So I had gotten up 421 00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:53,240 and I walked over and I said, Governor, it's you know, 422 00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:56,119 good to see you, because I've uh, we'll see you 423 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,400 tomorrow at the hearings. Well, there, my daughter Katie was 424 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,400 you know, killed by an undocumented migrant. So it's an 425 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,319 unfortunate situation that I'm seeing you here and meeting you here. 426 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: And what is his face like at that point, Joe, 427 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,319 that's I talked to you recently about this, but I 428 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,400 didn't get a chance to ask you that when you 429 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,440 make this information known to him, I can almost imagine, 430 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,559 you know, just a friendly and you are very respectful, 431 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,160 very friendly man. I don't think you would go up 432 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,039 and harass a public official like so many unfortunately on 433 00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:36,039 the other side of the aisle that we've seen in 434 00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:39,480 recent months. But what was his demeanor? What was his 435 00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:41,839 face like? As I can almost imagine him, you know, 436 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,400 with a big tim Walls grin on his face, and 437 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,079 then all of a sudden you lay this information on him. 438 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I should have prefaced this by saying initially, 439 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,119 I spent a lot of time childhood wise in Minnesota. 440 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,720 I've got family up there, so got nothing but fond 441 00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:00,319 memories up in Minnesota. So I didn't mention that him. Hey, 442 00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:02,000 I just want to let you know I spent a 443 00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:04,720 lot of time in Minnesota, nothing but fond memories and 444 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:06,559 then I hit him with a I'll see it to 445 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,759 not to be rude again to I just want to 446 00:28:09,759 --> 00:28:14,079 have a conversation. And just because we don't ree policy wise, 447 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:17,519 I'm okay with balking him. And he was. He was 448 00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:19,720 a nice enough guy. But no, you could see the 449 00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:21,640 faith he stood up at that point because he was 450 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,319 still sitting. He stood up at that point, and we 451 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,160 kind of, you know, he gave me condolences. We talked 452 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,160 a little bit about that, and so all in all, Matt, 453 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,200 it was a it was a good decent conversation, which 454 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,319 I to your point, I don't know why more people 455 00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:38,559 don't do that. We don't agree at all and some 456 00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:41,720 of this stuff, and I'm not saying I blame him personally, 457 00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:44,519 but I blame some of the policies. So we don't 458 00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:46,279 have to agree. But it doesn't mean we're going to 459 00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:48,960 be at each other's throat. He's a nice enough guy. 460 00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:51,640 Should he be the president? I think from a policy 461 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,599 perspective perspective, I would say, probably not my guy, but 462 00:28:56,599 --> 00:28:59,880 certainly someone friendly enough he can talk to, you know. 463 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,799 So it didn't go poorly. As a matter of fact, 464 00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:06,400 I sat down, my wife goes, wow, you really really 465 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,559 like she said, I didn't think you'd be up there 466 00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:11,240 like confronting them, but you were really super nice. And 467 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:15,240 I said, well, you know again, we're I'm not going 468 00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:16,960 to go up there and harass the guy. I just 469 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,960 want to say hello. And here you all see it 470 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:23,559 the hearing, and you know, here's what happened in our lives. 471 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 4: There are some ugly numbers when it comes to four 472 00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:31,720 oh one k balances. The Watch doot on Wall Street 473 00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:34,640 podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack the 474 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,279 connection between politics and the economy and how it affects 475 00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:39,920 your wallet. Studies show people in their thirties have a 476 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:42,960 staggeringly low amount of money in their four oh one k's. 477 00:29:43,119 --> 00:29:46,880 Even when companies match, they're wasting free money. Millennials have 478 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,880 to put more money away. When it's happening in DC 479 00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:51,519 or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. 480 00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:53,680 Check out the Watchdout on Wall Street podcast with Chris 481 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,480 Markowski on Apples, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. 482 00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:05,519 Speaker 1: Was he wearing a flannel shirt? Spent a lot of 483 00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:10,000 time campaigning in that flannel shirt, so I wanted I 484 00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:12,240 know he wasn't at the hearing. And this is the 485 00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:14,559 interesting part. We'll get to JB. Pritzker in just a 486 00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:18,400 moment too, But Governor Tim Walls was asked a lot 487 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,799 of questions by Republicans on that oversight committee. Do you 488 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,279 really believe what you said? There were a lot of 489 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:28,839 those questions because they had a lot of text, they 490 00:30:28,839 --> 00:30:30,799 had a lot of executive orders, they had a lot 491 00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:38,000 of press releases and messages, and these three governors that 492 00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:41,200 were on the hot seat last week had to explain 493 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:44,599 a lot of their words. And most recently, of course, 494 00:30:44,759 --> 00:30:47,839 we hear the governor of Minnesota call ice agents the 495 00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:56,160 modern day gestapo. Again, there's a deep policy divide here. 496 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,079 What did you think about him? And how he tried 497 00:31:02,119 --> 00:31:05,720 to explain away this rhetoric at the hearing. 498 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:11,799 Speaker 2: I find it actually very amazing that these guys can 499 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,880 say one thing, or write one thing, or send some 500 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,279 kind of message and then completely shift and say, no, 501 00:31:20,359 --> 00:31:21,480 that's not what I believe. 502 00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: I believe it's politicians right there. 503 00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:27,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, And maybe because I'm not that politic and I 504 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,200 feel like I've got a good character that I couldn't 505 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:32,440 look at Matt, I couldn't look at you and say 506 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,319 one thing and then a minute later tell you something 507 00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:38,400 completely opposite, like I just I don't have that for 508 00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:43,160 I can't do that, right. So that's definitely like if 509 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,160 you're going to say something and you believe something, just 510 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,680 like Matt, just like the sanctuary policies, you know, own it, 511 00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,400 stand up to it. Because one minute he's saying kind 512 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,319 of complaining that Texas sent fifty thousand and he's cleaning 513 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,960 up the federal mess that they left at the border 514 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,960 and he's the one taking all the But at the 515 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,759 other time, he's saying, you know, the immigrants, whether they're 516 00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:08,160 because you're going to remember, he makes no distinction between 517 00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:11,839 legal and illegal, right or auditor or unaudited. 518 00:32:12,359 --> 00:32:15,759 Speaker 1: They can't say illegal immigrant. You know, Joe Biden had 519 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,200 a moment of Joe Biden as when he used the 520 00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:23,079 term illegal immigrant, if you recall during his last State 521 00:32:23,119 --> 00:32:26,599 of the Union address, and it cost him dearly. These 522 00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:31,079 guys don't use the term illegal immigrant. They politically find 523 00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:34,400 it anotha and horrible. And so they're up there saying 524 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:40,440 migrants and they're not even saying undocumented that often. But right, 525 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,839 I mean, they they refuse to use the terms, the 526 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,720 legal terms that we're dealing with. 527 00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, they come up with their own words. Like in 528 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,519 this case again it'd be I think we called it 529 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,119 residents a lot. They take care of all their residents, 530 00:32:55,359 --> 00:32:58,079 They do everything they can for their residence. And again 531 00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:01,279 there's no distinction, you know. So one hand he's saying, 532 00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:03,279 you know, I'm cleaning up the mess. It's we didn't 533 00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:05,559 ask for this. On the other hand, he's saying, you know, 534 00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:09,720 the margarets of the you know, backbone, and we welcome them, 535 00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:13,000 and we take care of them, and we're safer because 536 00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:15,400 of it. We're a better place because of. 537 00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:18,599 Speaker 1: It, safer because of it. What's going through your mind 538 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,720 when you hear that, because that statement came up over 539 00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:23,279 and over again at that hearing. 540 00:33:24,279 --> 00:33:26,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, definitely, because at first I think of it, 541 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,160 I'm safer. Then why isn't Katie here with me? Why 542 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:32,759 why am I here? And why isn't my youngest with me? Why? 543 00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:35,000 Why will I never see my little girl again? Why 544 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,559 is that? If I'm safer, I wasn't safer? So there 545 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,359 is definitely, like you you have to kind of sit 546 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,119 there and hold your tongue and composure and when you're 547 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,119 hearing a lot of this stuff like when he said 548 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,359 the migrants are sort of better than the citizens directionally, like, 549 00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:57,240 that's kind of odd. I thought to sort of say that. 550 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,160 But just the contradictions and the what do you call 551 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,199 the contradictions and the inconsistencies in the words just struck 552 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,880 me as like so natural for them, it's kind of weird. 553 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,559 Speaker 1: Actually, there was a moment in that long hearing last 554 00:34:16,599 --> 00:34:19,079 week that I talked to you about earlier. I'd like 555 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,679 to again get your perspective on. In fact, I wrote 556 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,519 a piece at The Federalist this week as this hearing 557 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,639 is going on in Washington, d C. Many miles away 558 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,519 on the West coast, in Los Angeles, you have the 559 00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:40,239 Department of Homeland Security Secretary Christy Nome holding a press 560 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,599 conference about the riots, the anti ICE riots taking place 561 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:49,519 in Los Angeles and the efforts of ICE to enforce 562 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:55,519 the laws, the raids on illegal immigrants, arresting violent illegal immigrants, 563 00:34:55,599 --> 00:35:03,039 and who wanders in without you know, an invitation, in fact, 564 00:35:03,119 --> 00:35:06,119 is if you look at the videos quite disorderly as 565 00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:15,000 California Senator Alex Padilla, and he is taken out of 566 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:19,800 the room, as it has been expressed, forcibly removed for 567 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:25,199 creating a disturbance. He was there to ask a question. 568 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,400 He says, it looks pretty clear to me that he was. 569 00:35:28,679 --> 00:35:32,920 Whatever happened, it was a disorderly incident, and one can 570 00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:37,639 understand why the Secret Service, given the violence political violence 571 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,679 in America today, had concerns and removed this guy. And 572 00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:49,400 then immediately it becomes this press feeding event, and one 573 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,239 could argue that was by design. This whole clip goes viral. 574 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,360 In fact, did they not the Democrats on this committee 575 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,519 at the hearing play the video clip after hearing? I 576 00:36:02,559 --> 00:36:08,480 know they certainly responded to it and began gaslighting about 577 00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:12,880 the hero that Alex Spadilla was. What went down at 578 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,599 that hearing and what did you think of it all? 579 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 2: Well, the first time we heard about it was the 580 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,360 Democratic side came in and they wanted to submit this 581 00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:26,000 video to the committee in animus consent or something they 582 00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:28,639 call it, and they wanted to play it. So they 583 00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:31,519 stopped the committee. The chairman allowed them. They played the 584 00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:33,719 video like real I don't want to say real time, 585 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,840 but it was that afternoon, so they started playing that 586 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,800 video and then the first thing that happened, or at 587 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,760 least the first thing I went through my mind, was 588 00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:45,320 I looked at my if I go, there's no way. 589 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,239 This was like a setup to derail this committee. I 590 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,280 think because the first they did, they ran in there 591 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,039 and they submitted the video, they played it for everybody. 592 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:58,760 Then they started talking about you know, what type of 593 00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:02,400 administration this is that would do this to a sitting senator, 594 00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:06,280 and you know, the committee kind of went that direction 595 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,960 for a while. So that maybe I'm cynical again, It's 596 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,360 just interesting to me that the timing and then that's 597 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,639 how this whole thing shook out within this committee hearing, 598 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,159 it just seemed very suspicious to me as all. 599 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,079 Speaker 1: So I don't think you. I don't think you're cynical. 600 00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:23,880 You may be cynical. I think you have every right 601 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:29,320 to be cynical. I think that your experience was what 602 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,440 I think a lot of people felt too. Isn't this 603 00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:39,199 interesting that this big moment where this California Democrat, leftist 604 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:45,079 senator who has been deriding the POWs and that's his position, 605 00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:49,800 that's fine, But now he's pushing himself, inserting himself into 606 00:37:50,119 --> 00:37:53,719 this press conference by the DHS secretary. Nobody knows that 607 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,039 he's coming, at least the Secret Service people protecting the secretary, 608 00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:03,159 they have no idea. And then this big show that 609 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,920 goes on in an immediate press conference on the steps 610 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,920 from the Federal Building, and then every news outlet, every 611 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,880 accomplice news outlet, a corporate media news outlet, playing this 612 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,280 over and over again. And then you have Kathy Hokeel, 613 00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:27,920 the governor of New York, who is just absolutely beside herself. 614 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,079 She's expressing absolute outrage. Toward the end of this hearing 615 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,320 about Padilla's removal from the press conference. She says, this, 616 00:38:38,199 --> 00:38:44,000 regardless of what anyone does, to have someone like that, 617 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,920 that is to say, a US senator treated like a 618 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:54,280 common criminal, as if he was a threat, shocks the conscience. 619 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:02,159 Governor Hokel said, it shocks the conscience. She did not 620 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,599 to me, though, seemed as shocked Joe by the horrific 621 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:14,119 crimes committed by illegal immigrants in New York or fellow 622 00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:16,440 blue states Illinois and Minnesota. 623 00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 2: How did you. 624 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,599 Speaker 1: Feel about that kind of rhetoric coming from these folks 625 00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,840 as someone who has experienced what you have experienced. 626 00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 2: So a couple of things sitting there watching this sort 627 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,800 of unfold and hearing some of these words like you 628 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:37,599 just mentioned with Kathy Hokeel, Governor Hokel that I don't 629 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:41,039 even think well, so I know when she's being questioned 630 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,320 a lot of these people, she's like, oh, I didn't 631 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:44,840 know about that. Oh I don't know much about that. 632 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,000 I don't know anything about that, which I find disheartening, 633 00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:51,760 Like shouldn't you as a governor when there's these tragedies 634 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,639 like this that happen and consistently are happening with If 635 00:39:55,679 --> 00:39:57,320 you want to call him on documented whatever, we're going 636 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,599 to call him here in matt But aren't you even engage? 637 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,639 Couldn't you even muster up a like I am sorry, 638 00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:08,119 this is happening. I have contacted the family let them 639 00:40:08,159 --> 00:40:11,079 know that it's unfortunate. We're trying to sort this thing out. 640 00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:13,800 We had a lot of issues over the last few 641 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,760 years and we're just trying to get this thing done. 642 00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:19,760 It not only was ignored, it was just like it 643 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,119 never happened. So yeah, it's very frustrating, Just like with JB. Pritzker, 644 00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:26,840 Governor Pritzker on my end when the committee said, would 645 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,360 you like us to ask him to apologize to you? 646 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,119 And I said, well, I really would rather not. He's 647 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,880 it's been six months. He hasn't. I haven't heard a 648 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,840 word about anything on this. I don't want him to 649 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,239 feel coerse, so I assume he just wouldn't like acknowledge 650 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,239 me and say I'm sorry, because it doesn't really mean anything. 651 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,079 We don't need to have to go through that show. 652 00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:50,559 But how they can do that? Now? The other thing 653 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,119 I've thought was really weird watching that video Number one, 654 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,840 you know, if he wants to be this common man, 655 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,599 and then you know, because he was, that's a certain 656 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:03,320 way he is behaving a certain way to me, not 657 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,880 what a senator should be doing. I mean, that's something 658 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,440 like to your point, like just some bum off the 659 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,639 street would come in Russian people and interrupting rudely like that. 660 00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:15,360 That's not good character. You're not dressed properly, you're not 661 00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:19,159 addressing anyone. Probably you're not acknowledging yourself. That's not the 662 00:41:19,199 --> 00:41:20,760 way to do. And how do you think that's going 663 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,199 to play out? Exactly? So if you're going to be 664 00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:26,519 the senator, like, how could this happen to a US senator? Well, 665 00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:30,199 behave like a US senator and I suspect nothing would happen. 666 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,039 But I don't. Again, sitting there, I don't think that's 667 00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:35,400 what they wanted. They wanted something they could come in 668 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,239 and say, oh, by the way, look at what happened. 669 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,079 What the Trump administration is doing. The other thing I 670 00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:44,840 found very disheartening was and I won't talk to anybody, 671 00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:49,840 regardless of policy or what political persuasion you're at. Not one, 672 00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:55,360 not one Democrat came to even say hello, it's not 673 00:41:55,519 --> 00:42:01,639 Illinois representatives, not any Democratic representative. One. I had a bunch. 674 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,119 I've talked to a bunch of the Republican representatives, which 675 00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:08,159 are nice. Again, I would have loved to talk to 676 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,000 the Democrats too, but not one acknowledge me, so that 677 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,400 that would sort of and I don't think I was 678 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:15,960 in a position to get out of my seat and 679 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,880 go go see them, right, that's not what you would do, right, 680 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,039 But I thought that was disappointing. 681 00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:28,679 Speaker 1: We can understand that, particularly having reported on your story 682 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,159 gotten to know you over the last several months. This 683 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,920 is more well beyond politics. It is not, I should say, 684 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,039 it is not politics for you. It is a father 685 00:42:41,199 --> 00:42:47,440 who is trying to keep his daughter's memory alive and 686 00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:52,960 fight for her now that she has no voice. You 687 00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:55,719 are trying to do what is right in the memory 688 00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,480 of your daughter, and ultimately so that no father, no 689 00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:03,239 mother has to go through what you have gone through. 690 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,480 So close with the question, because you've talked about this 691 00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:12,960 a lot. The words that you've been hearing from Democrats 692 00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:17,599 like JB. Pritzker and Kathy Hokeel and Tim Walls and 693 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,760 some of the others when they're in defense of the 694 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,400 illegal immigrants who are being apprehended and deported. The language 695 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:32,679 that they're using is that they're being disappeared, they're being taken, 696 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:38,159 they're being stolen, kidnapped. These are the sorts of words 697 00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:43,360 that they're using, of course, all pitched for the highest 698 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,000 political rhetoric that you can imagine. What do you think 699 00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:50,119 when you hear these kinds of words when basically what 700 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,000 is happening at the end of the day is federal 701 00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:57,239 law enforcement officials are enforcing the law. People broke the 702 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,840 law and they're either going to have to go through 703 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,519 the criminal justice process or they're going to be removed 704 00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:06,360 from the country because they shouldn't have been here in 705 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,159 the beginning. But you, as someone who has experienced what 706 00:44:09,199 --> 00:44:10,760 you have, what goes through your mind. 707 00:44:12,119 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 2: So I think, and we've talked about this before, I 708 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,840 think this is the one thing that really strikes a 709 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,639 nerve with me is that you know this constant. You know, 710 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,639 you probably broke three federal laws, right, I mean, you 711 00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:27,880 broke the federal law when you came into the country legally, 712 00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:30,880 you broke a law by residing, and then you broke 713 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,480 a law by getting documentation. Right, So it seems to 714 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,199 me you're zero for three. And then we expect you 715 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,719 to be and no consequences, and then we expect you 716 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,360 to be a really good citizen, so that that doesn't 717 00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:43,239 kind of connect with me. And then yes, so this 718 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,880 is the one that strikes a nerve because Katie never 719 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,519 got to do process. Katie was you know, they talk 720 00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:52,320 about disappear and snatched and this thing, and they have 721 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,760 to Katie was disappeared, she was snatched, she was taken, 722 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,719 whatever word you want to use from me. We have 723 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,360 been separated. My family's been separated. No one seems to 724 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,760 care about that or make that connection. The difference, Matt, 725 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,599 that why kind of irks me and sticks in my 726 00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:16,280 craw is that Katie has been separated from me and 727 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,320 disappeared from me. Forever. I will never see my little 728 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,400 girl again. Forever I will never see her beautiful smile, 729 00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:30,280 hear her terrific laugh, be part of her engaging personality. Ever, again, 730 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,599 she's not in a detention center. She's not in another country. God, 731 00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:35,760 I wish I was. I wish she was, because then 732 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,480 I can still see her. But she's none of that. 733 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,400 She didn't break any laws. She just got taken away, 734 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,960 disappeared forever. So yes, this is the one thing that 735 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,440 really strikes in her. And I'm sorry, I get a 736 00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:52,880 little elevated, but it strikes in her because it's not right. 737 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,119 It's not right. She got no due process and she 738 00:45:55,199 --> 00:45:58,559 has been completely taken away and disappeared from us. And 739 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,440 it seems to be like that's okay. 740 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,039 Speaker 1: You are absolutely right, you have no need to apologize. 741 00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:07,440 There were people there last week who truly do need 742 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,880 to apologize. Again, as you say, what does it matter 743 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:19,000 now your daughter, your youngest, your beloved Katie has been disappeared. Really, 744 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:24,800 there's unlike the people who have been here illegally and 745 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,679 moved back to their country of origin, their families can 746 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,000 still at some level have the ability to connect with 747 00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:37,079 them while they are on this plane. You, as opposed 748 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:40,000 to others who have broken the law here in this 749 00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:45,440 country have a life sentence, and well with all the 750 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,519 social justice warriors out there and the No King's Audience 751 00:46:50,679 --> 00:46:56,400 or the No King's movement so to speak, you know, 752 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,840 you are dealing with an absolute lack of due process 753 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,360 when it comes to a loved one. And I'm sorry 754 00:47:04,159 --> 00:47:06,800 that you have to go through this, but I am 755 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,679 hoping that people like you standing up sharing your stories 756 00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:15,119 will help the policymakers understand what's at stake so that 757 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,119 nobody has to go through this again. 758 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 2: That's the hope. Yeah, And when Governor Pritzker's in the 759 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,400 committee saying that these people who commit crimes will see justice, 760 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,400 there won't be real justice in the Illinois I mean 761 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,760 I think that that right now, law enforcement and the 762 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,039 state's attorney and the federal attorney here in Illinois are 763 00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:40,760 doing great. I'm really hopeful, but even if they get 764 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:48,480 the maximum Matt, it's not real justice. So you know, unfortunately, 765 00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:52,519 if we just have taken care of things the right way, 766 00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:55,840 have the right process, a lot of folks wouldn't be 767 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,280 going through this. That's all my point there. 768 00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: Is absolutely thanks to my guest today, Joe Abraham, as 769 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,639 I said before, he's no politician no powerful bureaucrat, author, 770 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:14,159 or celebrity. Joe is a dad from Glenview, Illinois, who 771 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:20,760 tragically lost his daughter in January in a car crash, 772 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:26,840 and police say eighties killer. His daughter's killer was an 773 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:33,400 I legal immigrant who had previously been deported. Ultimately, these 774 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:39,320 are the stories that Americans, policymakers in particular, need to 775 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:46,000 hear over and over again to arrive at whatever justice 776 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,679 looks like. Now you've been listening to another edition of 777 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,800 The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittlesenior Elections correspondent at 778 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,400 the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, 779 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,000 stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the frame. 780 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:13,960 Speaker 2: I heard the fame voice the Reason, and then it 781 00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:15,119 faded away.