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Speaker 1: I've had many people ask me because I did a

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podcast with Kevin and I called him the most interesting moran,

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and I'm not sure that that's an accurate title. He

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had many adventures and certainly did. Why are you making

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that face continue? Well, because the morning think about it,

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like you did something that I desperately wanted to do.

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But I mean, mom and dad shit a mom shit

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on it so fast. And when I went to live

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with Joe and Kay and I had taken that year

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off from Fisher and Peter and I drove out to

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Denver to look at the University of Boulder, Colorado, and

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I really wanted to go to school there. And I

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had dreams because my friend Michael Murray had been killed

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in a car accident, that I came back for the funeral.

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And I dreamt that I came back for the funeral. Yeah,

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I was out there when he died. I dreamt that

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I came back, and in my dream, I said, all right,

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I gotta get back to Utah. And Mom's like, oh, honey,

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the summer's almost over, You're not going back. And I

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woke up and like Cole sweats you know a lot.

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And then when I said to her. Hey, listen, uncle

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Joe saying, I should really go to University of Durngo

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or should go out here? I should transfer?

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Speaker 2: Do you know all the fest you know how to play?

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Tickets are blah blah blah. Now you're five years younger

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than me. But you went to the University of South Carolina.

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Now there was a reason that that worked out for you.

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But I almost wonder if in a way, it wasn't

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one of the greatest things for.

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Speaker 3: You, Oh, South Carolina, just to be that far away.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that South Carolina may or may not

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have been. I'm not sure that. But to have that

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far away, really there was no night. Now people will

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go home on the weekend.

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Speaker 3: Didn't around and go home on the weekend. Couldn't get

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mom to do your laundry exactly, I can't get mom

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to do.

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Speaker 1: Nothing there. No, But I was thinking about that, and

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but you you had You've had these obstacles come up

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along the way in your life, starting with lime, and

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that was something that you know. Lime disease is not

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real well researched, I don't think real well funded. I

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just saw a thing on maybe it was CBS Sunday

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Morning where a high school class found some way to

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neutralize lime disease.

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Speaker 3: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they came in fourth or fifth in the

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world competition, but many teams from Beijing had won. But

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it was about lime. And I often thought of you

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because you were in high school. You could hardly move right, Yeah,

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like it got that bad, and you have been an athlete.

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You were on the field hockey team and.

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Speaker 3: Yep, newspaper all but yes, And I missed half of

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my senior year of high school from because I got it.

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It got a babysitting over the summer in.

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Speaker 1: August, and they didn't know what it was.

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Speaker 3: I started getting sick pretty quickly and they didn't really

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know what it was. Yeah, and then I was pretty

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much out of school until about January. I would go

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when I could. They're very nice, let me just drive in,

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show up when I could, leave when I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: But it sucked.

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Speaker 3: It was my senior year. I couldn't. I wanted to

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retake the SATs and I couldn't. I was trying, you know,

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applying to colleges, trying to figure where I wanted to go,

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and I really couldn't visit any place because I could

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hardly walk.

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Speaker 1: What was their first choice in your mind.

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Speaker 3: No, I think.

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Speaker 1: I think at the time, we're sitting in my sister's

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couch in our living room.

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Speaker 3: Okay, in all honesty, and I'm not trying to piss

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you off, mother, because I know you listen to this.

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It was not about pissing her off. It was the

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fact that you'll understand this. We grew up in a

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very small town. Most of the people I was graduating

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high school with I had known kindergarten, old nursery school.

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I still thought of the girl who joined the class

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ahead of us in fifth grade as the new kid.

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So there just wasn't a lot of change, and things

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were very fixed, and I always felt like, you know,

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there's a lot of world out there, and maybe South

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Carolina is the best way to go if you want

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to broaden your perspective and your insights. However, I felt

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like I needed to be in a place where I

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couldn't turn around and go home easily and I had

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to figure it out. And also at a place where

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I wasn't going to turn around to see anybody that

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I knew where that new man, So then I could

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kind of maybe figure start sorting out what's me what's them?

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What's you know? Where where do I fit in?

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Speaker 1: Really really like insightful that you're saying. And yeah, like

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I think for that age, I think that's really insightful.

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Speaker 3: That was a big motivator for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, more so going far away. Yeah, so where did

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you say the top choice was or you didn't.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember. Everything was really truncated because of.

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Speaker 1: Life lime, Lime, I just remember it screwed up. I

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remember dad being so upset and getting you the schile

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ali and they gave you extra time between classes, and

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you know, I think I do think sometimes when somebody

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who's so young in percent so healthy that you're not

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believed right away. I don't know if that was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, that definitely was the case. And I

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think that's had an effect on how I, uh, I

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have handled other medical things that have come up by

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waiting to the last minute, to the last minute. Yeah,

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but because we were trying to figure out what was

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going on, I did have I think a positive line test,

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but then some doctors felt like it wasn't I don't

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know who knows. It was a long time ago, and

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so I know our doctor, what's his name, Tessero, yeah.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't.

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Speaker 3: I never had him, but yet Okay, so his daughter headline.

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He was very knowledgeable and he thought it was for

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sure line. But you know, being a good physician and

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trying to cover his basis, he did send us to

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a rheumatologist, and the rheumatologists brought us into his office

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and said that he thought I should go see a

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psychologist because there was really no medical reason.

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Speaker 1: Like this is what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, young presents,

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Well there's got to be something wrong. And I think

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they had a whole thing in Roy, New York a

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couple of years ago. Well, all of a sudden, several

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girls were presenting with ticks and they couldn't explain why

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what ticks in terms of like, oh I don't expect

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that line, My bad, But it was like ticks And

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it's really convergence, is what they say. Well, convergence is

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in your head. Well, no one wants to hear it's

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in my head. They don't because that means I'm crazy.

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But convergence isn't. It's where it's in your head in

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a manifesting in your body. But that wasn't the case

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with you.

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Speaker 3: No, it wasn't he's saying, well, you know it's not

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rheum rumatoid arthritis, thank god, Right, you really don't have

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anything anything arthritic about your joints. There's really nothing wrong

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with your joints, meaning that I still had range of motion,

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even though they were painful to me. I still had

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range of motion, which you don't have if you have arthritis.

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So he called, he had us come in his office,

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and he was saying that he thought the next step

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would be to see a psychiatrist or psychologist. And I

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at this point had been sick. I think it was

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around November or December, and I'd been six in August.

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And so I saw they had pictures.

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Speaker 1: You didn't play any sports that fall? No, I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't do anything. Yeah, I couldn't do it. I

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was sleeping all the time. I was sleeping on a recliner.

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I couldn't sleep plat in bed. I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: And I know this sounds weird, but I didn't. I

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wasn't home. I didn't live there at the time.

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Speaker 3: Right, So I didn't see a lot of this, right, Yeah.

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So I was sleeping downstairs in a recliner, DA's recliner. Yeah, yeah,

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I had a cane and a schillally. Uh, there were

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days I couldn't really walk at all. Yeah, and it

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was my senior year. So I had been really big

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in school plays. I had played field hockey, I was

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in band, I was the editor of the school newspaper.

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I wanted to take the SATs again. I couldn't do

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any of this. I was sleeping all the time. I

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was absolutely exhausted and hurt. I was in a lot

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of pain, and we were just trying to get to

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the bottom of what was going on.

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Speaker 1: So psychologically that's so tough. Yeah, Like, and that's the

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part that I don't know that anybody has ever thought of,

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because I don't remember anybody saying and it was their

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senior year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was my senior and it was very isolating.

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So where I had my core group of friends, they

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were all doing their shit, being crazy, having a good

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old time, enjoying their senior year. So when I did

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get to come back, and it was kind of slow,

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a slow ramp up, all the stuff had happened, new

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friendships had formsween people I wasn't really friends with, and yeah,

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so I was left out of a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but they did do had of silling shots right,

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and then that worked? But when did that start?

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Speaker 3: So I had I had been on massive doses of

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antibiotics for the since Tesserero thought it was lime. He

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just kept me on about two thousand milligrams of antibiotics

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a day. Oh yeah, it was sefton and by accident.

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And when those weren't working, he and we had this,

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you know, rhomatologist who said it was in my head,

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and the roomatologist right. So I left us right up.

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But when we were in his office, he had some

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pictures of his family up and I said to him,

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is that a picture of your daughter? And he nodded,

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and I said, she kind of looks like she's my age.

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I said, I'm seventeen years old, I'm senior in high school.

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I've had to give everything up. Why do you think

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this is in my head? I was on field time,

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he was the editor of newspaper. I had to lead

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in the school play. I can't do any of this.

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I'm missing my entire senior year. And you are telling

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me I'm making this up. What would you do if

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this were your daughter? And he kind of sighed like

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he was like, And I told you frustration or some

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I was like, I don't know what to do because

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in my professional opinion, you don't have in my purview,

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right in my domain of practice, you don't. You're not

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presenting with anything arthritic, and you're not showing, you know,

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a very strong positive test real line.

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Speaker 1: So you would have like a seventeen you know where

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you hear those kind of questions come out with a

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seventeen year old on some teen drama where a forty

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five year old wrote the script like you actually said

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this to the guy, this is amazing.

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Speaker 3: That said it to him and he kind of sighed

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and he said, well, why don't you see why don't

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you go to physical therapy then? And he he's like,

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at least that would at least maybe they can help you,

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they can help you whatever. I don't know. He didn't

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know what to do right, and I broke down. I

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was sobbing in this office and I was really pissed off.

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I may have yelled at him too to have to

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ask Marge. I was really pretty angry. Yeah, So but

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we kept working with Tesserero. He was very convincent with Limes.

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So around December he was saying he's like well there's one,

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he said, it could be that, so I'm not to

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get two of the weeds. But lime is like syphilis,

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which they tested me for behind my back at seventeen

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years old, is a corkscrew shape spier key, and so

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it can burrow into tissue between your joints and things

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like that and hide out. When it's not in your

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blood stream anymore. You're not producing antibodies anymore. So when

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you're taking antibiotics, they're killing off the pathogens that are

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in your blood stream. You're not producing antibodies anymore, but

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you can still have lime. This is what Testerro explained

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to us. And so just taking oral antibiotics is sometimes

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not enough to actually get to the bacteria. So he

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was suggesting intravenous antibiotics, which were going to be unbelievably expensive,

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and he said, there's one more thing we can try.

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Let's do old fashioned penicillin shots and just see what happens.

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It could be enough. So I think it was once

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a week. I think, so it's either once a week

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or once. I think it was once a week, because

237
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I remember those bruises were fresh, right in the booty

238
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pulled down, I'd get to pick. I had to pick

239
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the spot on my check and it was.

240
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Speaker 1: Pink.

241
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Speaker 3: So the penicillin was really thick. So the needle was

242
00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:39,000
really thick and you could hear it. Oh slash hurt,

243
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,480
and then you had a rub, oh, my lord, into

244
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your butt and then I'd get these big bruises and

245
00:13:44,919 --> 00:13:47,720
I would get They said, if it was working, I

246
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,120
would get a flare up of my symptoms. They'd get

247
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worse and then they'd start to get better. And that happens.

248
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,639
I got really sick after the first two fever with

249
00:13:58,159 --> 00:14:02,279
probably I don't know, okay, and then I was getting

250
00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:04,440
better and they're like, okay as soon as we were working.

251
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So we did that until I was several weeks symptom free.

252
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I don't remember what the threshold was, but that was

253
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a lot of antibiotics.

254
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and which is terrible on your system and can

255
00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:21,399
really your digestive system. You can be oh, yeah, you're

256
00:14:21,399 --> 00:14:24,240
sneezing at you. I mean, after a while, stuff, I mean,

257
00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:30,799
that's not fun. But it got better. I thought by spring, yeah,

258
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,919
you were better. And then you went to the University

259
00:14:34,919 --> 00:14:37,519
of South Carolina. And I think a lot of that

260
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,240
had to do with the fact that you couldn't go

261
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,399
see other colleges. As you said with the lime disease.

262
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,480
What happened with lime wallin college?

263
00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:48,919
Speaker 3: I would have flare ups every once in a while.

264
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,919
Worse than that, I got sick all the time. So

265
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,039
I got mono before I went to college. I was

266
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,519
really sick with mono the summer before I went to college.

267
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,519
Then when I was in college, my sophomore year, I

268
00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:08,480
got extremely sick with strapped throat. They almost hospitalized me

269
00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:10,960
because it was not responding to antibiotics.

270
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Speaker 1: And it's part of that due to the fact that

271
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you were on so many or is this how line

272
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works too?

273
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Speaker 3: That was the antibiotic resistance yea at that.

274
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Speaker 1: Point your body. Yeah wow, oh man kay I didn't

275
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,000
know any of that, or if I did, I forgot it.

276
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But I did that whoa, Oh, I thought she was

277
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:31,720
biting my crotch.

278
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Speaker 3: I thought she will mess with her mom.

279
00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:40,919
Speaker 1: I know. Uh So the rest of your life it's

280
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,480
been it'll you'll have flare ups and things, and you've

281
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:49,399
gone and there and but there's no how do I

282
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,960
say it? I think most of the doctors that deal

283
00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:57,440
with lime are considered holistic and and aren't usually covered

284
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,080
by medical insurance or PPI or whatever.

285
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it gets really tricky because, yeah, it's seems that

286
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,080
there are things that work. So I had a flare

287
00:16:12,159 --> 00:16:14,240
up when I was living in Atlanta and I was

288
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,559
in grad school about fifteen. I was longer than that,

289
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:21,279
I know, twenty years ago, and it was very weird.

290
00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:26,960
It was not like my first time with line I had.

291
00:16:27,039 --> 00:16:30,279
I got like pain on only the right side of

292
00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:34,000
my body, like extreme pain in every like my arm

293
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,360
all the way down to my fingers, my leg from

294
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,960
the hip to my toes. I could hardly walk. It

295
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,159
got worse and wor is worse, a lot of brain fog.

296
00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:47,200
Couldn't think, would be talking, and it just felt like

297
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,240
the words were falling. I could not hold a thought

298
00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:56,039
from beginning to end. The words it was like word salad. Yeah,

299
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,320
Like it was like every word was on a conveyor

300
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,000
belt and just falling off the edge of a click

301
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,960
if there was no cohesion. And I was teaching and

302
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,799
I didn't I was a grad students, so I did

303
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,440
not have good health insurance. I was taking public transportation.

304
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,559
I remember I lived upstairs, so it would take me

305
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,720
forever to get downstairs to get to the train, and

306
00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:20,960
then the train was this long hallway, and I'd just

307
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,640
stand there and be like, it's all right, just just

308
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,440
just one stuff touched one. It doesn't matter how many

309
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,400
trains passed, just one and stuff. Because I couldn't really

310
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,680
take time. I couldn't take time off. I tried to

311
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,599
see a doctor there anyway. You were asked about no.

312
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,880
Speaker 1: I think this is amazing because what I would say

313
00:17:39,039 --> 00:17:43,720
is so many people would have had lime to that

314
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:47,599
I've never known anybody to have lime. Oh and if

315
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,039
I did, they never talked about what the symptoms were

316
00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:55,119
and stuff. So to know that you dealt with all that,

317
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,240
a lot of people would would hold them back. I think,

318
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,720
I really do. I think that in some way it

319
00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:03,279
becomes something like I can't I don't know my lime,

320
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,640
and and who can mind me? If that's how you feel.

321
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:13,920
You didn't stop. I mean you didn't you.

322
00:18:14,079 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 3: Would, But I think it was like for me, this

323
00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:20,960
is why stop? My husband? Yeah, it's like, oh, well,

324
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,920
you'll muddle, You'll muddle through anything. Because I think there

325
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,359
was this thought of like, if I go to a

326
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,640
conventional doctor, they're going to test me for lime. I'm

327
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,440
not going to show up as positive. They're not going

328
00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:31,920
to know what's wrong with me. They're not going to

329
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,160
be able to treat me. And this is going to

330
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,480
go nowhere except to the fact that I'm crazy. So

331
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:42,200
I know I'm not crazy. I'm just gonna take this off,

332
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,000
you know, I'm just going to figure things out on

333
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,319
my own. When I was in Atlanta, i did because

334
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,000
you were saying, so, then you do you know, you

335
00:18:49,079 --> 00:18:54,519
find a doctor who is lime literate in quotes, right,

336
00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:57,400
but some of them are snake oil pedlers. You have

337
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,759
to be so careful, and then how do you know?

338
00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:03,319
So you've got the ones who've been they've lost their

339
00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:07,400
their license to practice medicine. But it's you know, because

340
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:13,119
the people are calling them a heretic because they are

341
00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:15,759
saying that this is real, it's not in somebody's head,

342
00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:17,279
and then it can present this way and this is

343
00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:18,920
a good way to treat it. And then there's other

344
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,319
people who are also saying that. But they're like charging

345
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,359
ten thousand dollars to shoot lasers in your veins. And

346
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,400
I'm not freaking kidding. There's a woman I went to

347
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,039
see and that was how she wanted to treat me.

348
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,000
She wanted to shoot. Maybe it works for people. I

349
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,880
don't know, but I was not paying ten thousand dollars

350
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:40,640
to have light light shot into my veins. Wow, okay,

351
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,480
but the people now the guy saw in Atlanta, did

352
00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:48,680
people think he's a total quack? And he charged in

353
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,880
an arm and a leg. They had some homeopathic things.

354
00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:56,799
One was Kat's claw, Peruvian Kat's claw, and one was

355
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,039
cemento I think it was called. And I took them

356
00:20:02,079 --> 00:20:04,680
and I would get it's called a Herkzheimer effect. You

357
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:06,920
have a flare up, you get a little better, and

358
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,759
you take it, you know, and it was you tight

359
00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:10,839
trade it up with these There were drops, a little

360
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,559
drops and they worked. So then I was like, okay, great,

361
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,440
I found some of works I found I know where

362
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,599
to get this. If this happens again, I will just

363
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,920
do this. I'm not seeing another doctor. I'm done. But

364
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,440
it did come back. I was on disability from my

365
00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:28,240
job here.

366
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I don't think. I here's the thing that

367
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:37,839
I find interesting. And I do wonder if this isn't

368
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,599
necessarily a bad thing at all that mom and Dad

369
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:46,880
were of. I don't know that they weren't not caring.

370
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:49,759
I think that there were a lot of times where

371
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,200
I feel like Dad was a little more tuned in

372
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,920
on certain things. But whatever, you understand what I'm saying.

373
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 3: I have no idea what.

374
00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:02,279
Speaker 1: All right, thank you, but I would say that that

375
00:21:02,599 --> 00:21:05,599
there I wasn't caring. But it was also like there

376
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,000
was never it was never said, don't use this as

377
00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:12,599
an excuse. It was just you just weren't going to

378
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:18,119
use it as an excuse, I think for all of us, right, yeah, yeah,

379
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:22,440
And but I mean this Jesus Christ, like, I don't

380
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,319
think I really until we're sitting here talking now knew

381
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:29,559
the gravity of this. Because I'm sitting here thinking this,

382
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,200
would you call lime disease one of the most impactful

383
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,640
things on your life to where you have been able

384
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:44,400
to almost handle a lot, maybe way more than most

385
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,680
people because you just muddle through. I don't know, Yeah,

386
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:48,079
I don't know.

387
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 3: I honestly don't think about it that often. Sure, well,

388
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,319
you know when it's not when it's not flaring up.

389
00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:58,599
You know, the kids are always like, oh, how are your

390
00:21:58,759 --> 00:22:02,359
Are we calling limeboat lime bones? Because I can predict

391
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:09,240
weather change like storms are common because yeah, changes in pressure, yeah,

392
00:22:09,519 --> 00:22:12,559
changes in pressure. And I feel much better in general

393
00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:15,319
in high pressure. In fact, it's when I'm in high pressure,

394
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:17,680
like when we're out Maui or I'm out West or something.

395
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,519
When we were in Denver that I'm like, holy shit,

396
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,680
I could feel this good all the time. Like you

397
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,960
don't even realize how bad you feel most of the

398
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,559
time until you feel so freaking good.

399
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: You lived in Denver for how long?

400
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,039
Speaker 3: Almost four years?

401
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and no real problems while you were there, No, no,

402
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:35,559
no line.

403
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,839
Speaker 3: And in fact, I had another flare up here because

404
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,720
I think it says about six seven, eight years ago.

405
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:50,240
Its ever she's thirteen, yeah, and oh yeah, and I

406
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,200
was on disability. We went the conventional because you know,

407
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,839
health insurance they don't that. That was also where the

408
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,839
person I found that was Lime Literate, who was not

409
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,039
covered by insurance when shoot laser. So we tried the

410
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,000
conventional route. We were getting Ustafa was shocked. He was

411
00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:09,359
absolutely shocked, as I was, like, I was so exhausted,

412
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,039
but I was like, I will take you on this

413
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,480
journey if this is what we're doing. He's like, it's okay, yeah, yeah,

414
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,720
We're gonna get to the bottom of this. Doctor one,

415
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,680
I don't know what's wrong with you. It's not lime disease.

416
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:21,960
Doctor two, Well go see infectious disease. There's nothing wrong

417
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,240
with you. It's not infectious disease. Doctor three, it's not

418
00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:27,440
our thrt's ghoste neurology. Neurology wouldn't even touch me. Marches

419
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,640
in the office with me. The woman was across the room.

420
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,720
He goes, it's nothing wrong with your nerves. He was like,

421
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:35,759
you gotta be kidding me. I was like, no, honey,

422
00:23:35,799 --> 00:23:37,240
I'm not kidding you. This is how it goes. Why

423
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,920
I didn't want to do this, like I just waste

424
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,160
a time and money. Wasted time and money, right, Yeah.

425
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,039
Speaker 1: But then there were some of the non uh, I

426
00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:49,640
guess we call them non conventional, the holistic doctors that

427
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,839
did work. But there were super.

428
00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 3: Expensive, super expensive, and there are some that are absolutely

429
00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:01,039
doing wonderful, wonderful work. There is someone there's as an

430
00:24:01,079 --> 00:24:04,640
Ahe Horowitz, doctor Horowitz, and I think he's based in

431
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,000
New York near There was so much line in the

432
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:10,240
Hudson Valley and he was doing a lot of work

433
00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:12,079
up there, and he's written a lot of books, and

434
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,960
so I used a lot of his protocols again on

435
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,960
my own where I would order from the you know,

436
00:24:20,079 --> 00:24:26,160
reputable not Amazon, but reputable places and follow their When

437
00:24:26,319 --> 00:24:29,640
was the Couten protocol. But you're talking thousands of dollars

438
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,039
in supplements, thousands of dollars in supplements. And also you're like,

439
00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:34,799
you know, I'm not a doctor.

440
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: Has it gotten better as you've gotten older? Do you have?

441
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:39,720
I don't know.

442
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,799
Speaker 3: It's I haven't had a bad flare up in a while.

443
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,079
Sometimes I'll have a flare up. I can tell the

444
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:54,359
difference when it's it's really hard to describe, but there's

445
00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:58,559
a difference. I can tell when it's temporary, and I

446
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:00,799
can tell when it's going to hang in for a while.

447
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:04,559
And it's something in my brain. I can feel the

448
00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:07,599
difference of my thinking and really.

449
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: So almost where they talked about with COVID, where you

450
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:13,839
get the foggy thinking and things. Yeah, and for someone

451
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:20,000
like you as a thinker, yeah, it's a because you

452
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,119
you go to the University of South Carolina. Did you

453
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,920
go overseas when you were there? Yeah?

454
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,799
Speaker 3: I did. I studied the University of Hull. You know

455
00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:33,799
where that is halfway between Dolan Hell, That's where now

456
00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:34,559
it was in northeast.

457
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was when we used to make fun of you,

458
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,880
because I know I'm still making funny, but there was.

459
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 3: H to visit the jackass.

460
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I know, I do remember, but I don't

461
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:52,839
know you went to uh oh bunch just He used

462
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,519
to call the house and Kevin and I would listen

463
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:58,200
they were going back, like because you could pick up

464
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,680
the extension and here in and we would hear him,

465
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,680
I love you so much, okay. And then I think

466
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,160
there was a time you stayed an extra week where

467
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,599
like there were a spring break or something and you

468
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,119
flew down to see him, and then when you were

469
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,839
gone for an extra week, I think. I don't know.

470
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,000
All I remember is whenever one of you did something,

471
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:17,920
and it usually Kevin just they didn't care. But if

472
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,359
it was you, I would be like, oh, yes, thank god,

473
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,839
Oh what am I paying for us? He's com for

474
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,319
it all the week. He's rent and rave, and yet

475
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,920
at the same time, I don't think he cared tremendously

476
00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:34,160
as long as you were safe. I think that he

477
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,680
was admired and maybe was a little envious that he

478
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,240
hadn't taken advantage of those kind of opportunities. I certainly didn't,

479
00:26:43,559 --> 00:26:47,160
but I thought that was pretty cool. But still funny.

480
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was a rekindled love from a pen pal.

481
00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: What yes, wait, okay, so that was like it was

482
00:26:57,039 --> 00:26:59,079
he an exchange student in Pine Plains.

483
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 3: For like for like a week when I was in

484
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,640
tenth grade. We had pen pals. My pen pal was

485
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,000
a girl and Judy. She stayed with us for two weeks, and.

486
00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: He was I missed all this great shit. I didn't

487
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,359
live at home. I was gone because I was five

488
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:16,880
years older.

489
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: This was when what was that song? Were ten inches

490
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:26,640
of Snow or something like that. I can't remember. I'm

491
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,480
getting vague memory. Anyway, So we hit it off, shall

492
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:34,000
we say, Yeah, in tenth grade, right with this budding romance,

493
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:37,119
and then we wrote love notes back and forth to

494
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,920
each other for the next five years, on and off,

495
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,440
on and off.

496
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:40,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

497
00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 3: So, when I was studying in England, I let him know.

498
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,039
The next thing, I freaking know, he shows up on

499
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:48,920
my doorsteps.

500
00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: Shut up, shit, I'm not kidding.

501
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,279
Speaker 3: He was sending me a lot of mixtapes and he

502
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,559
was saying that he was going to come, but his

503
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,680
English was so so and I didn't realize how serious

504
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:04,319
he was until he was there. Wow.

505
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh that's kind of fun. Though it was fun.

506
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,079
That's kind of fun fun. So we.

507
00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 3: We decided to take a train just for an adventure.

508
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,119
We're gonna go to another city. We're gonna go to Leeds.

509
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,119
See what leads was like, find a hostel there when

510
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,440
we got there. Okay, so we take the train to Leeds.

511
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,519
We're calling around. We can't find any place to stay.

512
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:30,640
We're a phone booths. Right, it's nineteen ninety eight, I

513
00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:35,000
think ninety seven ninety eight. We're in phoe Booths. It's winter,

514
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,880
it's freezing freaking cold, ripping pages out of the phone

515
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,880
book to try and like find place. Were calling over

516
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,960
the place, No one's we can't find a hostel. We

517
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,440
can't find we couldn't afford a hotel. Right, and then

518
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,000
we're like, all right, well, I don't know what we

519
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:52,359
should do. My freaking wallet's gone.

520
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,799
Speaker 1: On whoa you can get so many pickpockets.

521
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:58,119
Speaker 3: I didn't know what happened to My wallet was gone,

522
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,720
And I was like, I can't we go. I don't

523
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,839
even know what to do. I don't even know how

524
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,319
we're gonna get Like he had some money, but now

525
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,319
we're waiting in the train station all night long. So

526
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,519
we could get like two train tickets on the first

527
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:13,079
train back to Hall the next morning, and I don't

528
00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:16,079
know what to do because everything like all my id,

529
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,680
all my everything, like you know, I'm an international student.

530
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:24,559
It's all in that freaking wallet. And yeah, we were

531
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,119
up all night in the train station because we couldn't

532
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,079
we weren't sure if we had enough money for two

533
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,519
train tickets, so we weren't spending any money, right, like

534
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,160
we were being like really careful. And I don't know,

535
00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:40,119
I guess he didn't have a credit card. I don't know.

536
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,079
I don't know. I just remember that. So we're like freezing.

537
00:29:43,119 --> 00:29:46,519
We get out of the train, we go back for

538
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:50,240
two Yeah, okay, back to Hall, and I think we

539
00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:53,079
had to walk two miles from the train station back

540
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:53,480
to the.

541
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

542
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,839
Speaker 3: It's like really cracker early in the morning. And either

543
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,440
that night or the next day, I don't remember where

544
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,480
we got the phone call because they didn't have my number.

545
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:13,119
A woman found my wallet in the phone booth in

546
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,079
Leads and took it home with her and gave it

547
00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:18,880
to her mom, and they were looking. They found out

548
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,680
I was a student that you saw that they saw

549
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,160
everything right that was in the National Studio It's.

550
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: So weird because in nineteen ninety eight you had to

551
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,279
be a detective pretty much to find you.

552
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: Right, And she found out where I was studying, and

553
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,519
I don't know who they called because they had a

554
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:36,880
we had a it was campus housing that it was

555
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,480
like a typical British row house with one phone, and

556
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:43,480
that phone number wasn't in my wallet. So yeah, she

557
00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:45,799
did some detective work, got in touch with somebody at

558
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:47,359
the university who got in touch with.

559
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,559
Speaker 1: Me, and.

560
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: She mailed my wallet back to me with all everything

561
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,680
in it, not a dime taken out of it. It

562
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:57,240
was crazy.

563
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is crazy. And then French le go stay

564
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,000
around for a couple of days or.

565
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: Did I think so? I'm trying to remember, and then yes,

566
00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:08,920
I went for my spring break or February.

567
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: That train story. Now when you look back, right in

568
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:15,480
the moment, panic scared. I don't know what I'm gonna do,

569
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:17,079
how I'm gonna get back to the United States. I

570
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,599
don't know how we could proof who I am. Almost

571
00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:22,160
romantic in a way now.

572
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: Of course my favorite movie was Before Sunrise, so right

573
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:30,319
to me, I was living out this little you know,

574
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,839
European romantic fantasy. So I did go. Oh, it was

575
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,839
over Easter. I went to see him over Easter. I

576
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,799
don't know it was maybe it was February. It was

577
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:44,240
two weeks. That's right, it was two weeks. He was

578
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:46,880
studying in Rome. Oh my god. I had the best time.

579
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:50,000
All his friends are artists, so they were taking me

580
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,519
all around Rome. They gave me all these works of art,

581
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,200
like I had all these paintings. People had made chalk drawings.

582
00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:00,359
Everybody wanted to meet me whatever, because I was the right.

583
00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:03,160
They were giving me the backs tour of all the

584
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,920
you know, different monuments and places, and we got to

585
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,359
go see this one at night. It was so much fun.

586
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,000
It was such a good time. He had family in Rome,

587
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:14,240
and I mean it was like hot goss. That this

588
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,119
American gross. So I'm invited to everybody's house for dead,

589
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:19,839
doing the shots and doing that, and they had all

590
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,119
the food. Nobody spoke any English, was just bananas. And

591
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:28,240
then of course he wanted to take me to his family.

592
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,160
They lived in Sicily, Monica, not close to Rome. So

593
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:38,319
we took a train overnight and then the train went

594
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:38,960
on a ferry.

595
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,279
Speaker 1: Wait, the train goes on.

596
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: The ferry ferry and then you get off in Syracusa, Syracuse,

597
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,000
I think, and his family met us there and then

598
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,960
took us to his well. So we go to his

599
00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:57,319
tat ancient, medieval, beautiful little stone. Well, you know, he

600
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,799
picks eleven off the tree, pulls out his pocket knife,

601
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:02,519
hands me a slice like he's sweet, Like you could

602
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:04,920
just eat it right off the tree, and we just

603
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,519
had the best best time. But like I think a

604
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:09,799
lot of it was like, I don't know, what the

605
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,319
hell anybody like looking back on the hell anybody like

606
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,440
a parents, What the hell were they thinking of me?

607
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,519
I don't know. There was a lot of yellig and screaming,

608
00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:21,720
but I didn't know what they were saying.

609
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,039
Speaker 1: So, well, like, you have a daughter now she's thirteen,

610
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,240
When she gets to be that age, would you encourage

611
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:34,000
her to I'm not saying, to travel, Yeah, to travel,

612
00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:36,039
open yourself up to opportunities.

613
00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely yeah.

614
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: I mean they were on, well this will probably go

615
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:44,079
on a Tuesday that I'll drop this one. But they

616
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,799
they talked about all the trips you take as a

617
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,839
family and how I think that that's just amazing, how

618
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,839
much you've exposed them to the world. You didn't backpack

619
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,920
through Europe. Did you I did. I was.

620
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: Jesus Philly, I gave you brother the idea.

621
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

622
00:34:02,119 --> 00:34:06,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, So my friend Anka from Germany, who was we

623
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,840
were really good friends from Paul and yeah, I just

624
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,880
met up with her and when we were in Croatia,

625
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:14,519
which was great, head and seen her and I don't

626
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,320
even want to do that math a long time. Yeah.

627
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,119
We went all through uh, we went all through Germany,

628
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,599
we went up to Sweden, we went through you know, Netherlands.

629
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,840
I'm trying to remember. We met our friend Andreas. We

630
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,880
went through France. We spent like like three or four

631
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,079
weeks backpacking around.

632
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: How cool? What? Yeah was that during the summer? Yeah,

633
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,760
I assume. And then you you you graduate from the

634
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,360
University of South Carolina. I do remember going down to that, uh,

635
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,079
and then you go to the University of Georgia. How

636
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:57,400
did that? I don't remember? What is this a bad question?

637
00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: I know not at all, But that's I graduated from

638
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:06,880
South Carolina. So when I came back, I was ahead

639
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,920
of the game. I didn't re leave a major. I

640
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:11,880
decided to declare philosophy as my major because of the

641
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,480
way that philosophy worked in England. The courses were a

642
00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:19,280
lot longer, so they were worth more credits. So I

643
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,599
came back with a lot of credits and I could

644
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:28,920
have graduated early. I didn't. But I took a lot

645
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,920
of fun classes my last semester and then I was like,

646
00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,639
uh shit, what do I do now?

647
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: Like?

648
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 3: What do I do now? Yeah? There was a career center.

649
00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:41,639
Had I ever stepped foot in the career center? Had

650
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:44,559
I thought one thought about what I was supposed to do,

651
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,800
like when you're done with college? Crazy?

652
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's crazy.

653
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 3: I call it privilege, Yeah maybe, yeah, privilege for sure.

654
00:35:55,199 --> 00:35:58,000
So I was waiting tables and I did not know

655
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:00,239
what I was gonna do. I really had no plan.

656
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: No, never moved back home, no no, no.

657
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,199
Speaker 3: I had an apartment with a lot of roommates. And

658
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,159
I was waiting tables and I was looking around. I

659
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,079
was like, everybody's got a job, Like adults around you

660
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,599
have jobs, Like just figure out what they are. Let's

661
00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:15,920
just see what the options are. And I was flying

662
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,519
home for Easter and I was like, maybe I give

663
00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:21,000
a flight attendant. So I did that.

664
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: You were a flight attendant for how long?

665
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: Three years?

666
00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:27,599
Speaker 1: And you based yourself out of Atlanta with Delta.

667
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 3: Yes, I was in New York with Delta for a

668
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,920
little while and then I transferred to Atlanta. I was

669
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:40,800
in Atlanta and then nine to eleven happened, right, and

670
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,079
so I would have been furthered because I was pretty junior.

671
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,039
So I took a leave. They were offering you could

672
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:51,440
take a one year leave, keep your health benefits, keep

673
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,840
your flight benefits. So I waited tables.

674
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: It was perfect.

675
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 3: I went back to Delta for a while. They were

676
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,480
doing another round of furloughs. I was gonna be on

677
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:05,960
the furlough list this time. They were offering I think

678
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,960
one three in five year leaves, but no one no

679
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,119
keep your insurance right, just that you would be furloughed,

680
00:37:13,159 --> 00:37:16,239
you'd be offered your job back. So I thought about

681
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,480
going to grad school. So I figured I'll do the

682
00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:21,840
five years. That the way they can't touch me, you know,

683
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,119
if I'm in the middle of a program. And so

684
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,280
then I was like, what am I going to do? Study?

685
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,320
So that's where I had landed on. I always wanted

686
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,280
to teach in China. Yeah, why, that's a good question.

687
00:37:34,559 --> 00:37:36,280
I think it was more the travel, like I really

688
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:37,000
wanted to see.

689
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a big thing.

690
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,519
Speaker 3: A lot of people were teaching in China, so it

691
00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:48,760
seemed like a way in. So I started volunteering with

692
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,880
Literacy Volunteers of Atlanta teaching English. So I had a

693
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:59,480
two team named Genevieve Genevieve from the DRC, and we

694
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:01,800
became really good friends and I really loved it, and

695
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,159
so I kept tutoring her all through grad school. Yeah, yeah,

696
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,239
she was great and.

697
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:09,039
Speaker 1: Yeah.

698
00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:13,039
Speaker 3: So then I started the Masters in teesaw So teaching

699
00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:16,559
English as a second language. I see. I was dating

700
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,039
mister not so Nice we call him at the time.

701
00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:23,960
This was after Francesco, and he didn't like to travel

702
00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:29,760
at all, and he was really not on board with

703
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,840
the teaching in China thing. So then I was like, oh,

704
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,559
I'll be a flight attendant and then I can travel.

705
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,639
So when I went back to grad school and we

706
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,239
broke up. When I got into the PhD program because

707
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:48,800
I was after my master's degree, I had a professor

708
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,079
I really loved and she was really encouraging me to

709
00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:52,880
apply to the Oh my god, I don't think you've

710
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,599
ever heard this story. All right, so I'm dating mister

711
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,320
not so nice. He used to moved to Atlanta we

712
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,559
broke up when I was a flight attendant. We got

713
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,079
back to other we're now living together in Atlanta. We've

714
00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:04,880
been together for about seven years.

715
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: And he.

716
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 3: She said, so, I'm meeting with this professor. She's like,

717
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,880
I really think you should apply to the PhD program.

718
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,679
It's a new program. This would be really good for you.

719
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,519
You should do this and hey, and I kind of

720
00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:24,519
ignored her because I knew like this was not in

721
00:39:24,639 --> 00:39:28,320
the works if I wanted to stay with mister nosience.

722
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:34,199
So one day this we're getting close to the application deadline,

723
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,119
and she calls me into her office and she shuts

724
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:38,559
the door and she goes. She was the nicest lady.

725
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,079
She was an older woman from Alabama. She talked like this.

726
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,760
Her name was Pat Merge. Wonderful, wonderful woman. I'd never

727
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,719
seen her raise her voice ever. And she looks at

728
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,320
me and she goes, have you applied, because I have

729
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:55,599
not seen your application, And I said eh. She looks

730
00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:58,440
at me and she goes, slams her hand down on

731
00:39:58,519 --> 00:40:01,239
the desk and goes, why I won't you do what

732
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,719
I asked you to do? And I was like, huh.

733
00:40:04,039 --> 00:40:06,599
She goes, I know you think that dead beat boyfriend

734
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:09,599
of yours has something to offer you. What are you

735
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:12,800
gonna do? Move back to the middle of nowhere South Carolina.

736
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:15,559
She's like, that is no life for you.

737
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

738
00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:21,039
Speaker 3: You go home and you get that application turned in,

739
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,880
I expect to see it. And I was like, are captain?

740
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,000
I was like, I don't whatever, So I did. I

741
00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:30,960
turned the application in the day it was due. I

742
00:40:31,079 --> 00:40:33,960
actually had to hand slide it under the fucking door

743
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:38,079
because I was after the office had closed and I

744
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,920
was way past the date to mail anything anywhere. And

745
00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:48,119
I got into the program and he told me that

746
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,400
if I got in, it was over. He was in,

747
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:53,639
I'm bored for this. Did you care?

748
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:57,159
Speaker 1: I mean you do. We all do to a certain extent.

749
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,199
But I don't know.

750
00:40:58,199 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 3: I mean I shouldn't have, right. But the funny thing

751
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:03,599
was the first person I told because I knew as

752
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:05,119
soon as I told him we were going to break up.

753
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:07,519
So I was all excited. So I call my best

754
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,719
friend Mary Helen, who is in the mall in Frederick's

755
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:16,519
of Hollywood, and she goes, she was from Mississippi, so

756
00:41:16,559 --> 00:41:18,519
she had a stark Southern accent too, and she goes, oh,

757
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:20,800
my head got star I'll be right there were right there.

758
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:22,960
Where can we meet? She's like, let's listen for a

759
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,920
Drick Street, Drick don't go home, don't don't tell me,

760
00:41:25,079 --> 00:41:29,360
don't tell them. So we met at Manuel's Tavern, which

761
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,079
is this little old bar, a little it was a

762
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,760
very democratic bar they anyway, no matter, old historical bar

763
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,360
in Atlanta. And she comes in, she goes, I don't

764
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,199
know what to get you, and she throws this a

765
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,159
little bag at me. She's like, I know they're not

766
00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:47,039
your size. And I pull out this extra extra large

767
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,679
pair of fringe a fringe thong.

768
00:41:51,679 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: Do you still have it?

769
00:41:52,760 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 3: I warn't A graduation in Yeah. We had a good laugh.

770
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:03,559
And then I told him when we woke up and

771
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:05,920
I went and taught in China that summer.

772
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't I don't remember when mister sounds so nice.

773
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,159
I don't.

774
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: Uh.

775
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: And then from there you finish the PhD and then

776
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:23,880
you gotta go are you back to the same thing after? Like, well, yeah,

777
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:25,639
I mean I don't know.

778
00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:28,639
Speaker 3: Oh, I think I will be perpetually in a state

779
00:42:28,679 --> 00:42:32,559
of what am I gonna do? It comes with the ADHD,

780
00:42:32,679 --> 00:42:36,159
I think. But no, So when I was toward the

781
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,679
end of my program. And this is boring story. There's

782
00:42:38,679 --> 00:42:40,559
a lot of politics. I got caught in the middle

783
00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:43,719
of a lot of stuff. I was getting a lot

784
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:50,199
of really shitty assistantships and things. And Mustafa, who's now

785
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:55,239
my husband, and I were dating. He is the reason

786
00:42:55,519 --> 00:42:58,280
I got you know him, He's the reason I got

787
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,920
God getting all this, all the stories out of me.

788
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:04,760
So he's the reason that I was able to finish

789
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,920
my dissertation proposal. Like I had to write the proposal.

790
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,360
You have to defend I'd done the comprehensive exams. You

791
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,480
have to come up with a proposal, write that paper,

792
00:43:14,199 --> 00:43:17,960
get it approved so that you can start your your

793
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:23,719
dissertation work. So that summer I was supposed to be

794
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,360
writing my proposal. We met in October, but that summer

795
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:34,800
before I had a wild summer, just wild, and I

796
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:40,320
was having a very hard time focusing on my work. Sure, yeah,

797
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,239
and then I met Mustafa, and I remember he lived

798
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,679
in Chantanooga and he was an attorney, he was an assistant,

799
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,679
he was no he was an ak a clerk for

800
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,400
a federal judge up in Chattanooga, and so he would

801
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,320
come down on the weekends and you know, I was like,

802
00:43:55,679 --> 00:43:57,079
I have a lot of work to do, like me too,

803
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:58,800
and tons of stuff to do. Let's go to a

804
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,920
coffee shop. We'll just work. So we go to the

805
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,360
coffee shop and I'm being all cute, you know, get

806
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,679
my latte, I've got my computer around. I'm kind of

807
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,360
looking at him waiting the chit chat. I'm looking at

808
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,159
him and he's not making eye contact, and I'm looking

809
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:14,559
at him and I kind of like, you know, kick

810
00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:17,119
him under the table, and he's like, it's right back

811
00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:20,159
to work. He's just like line Us on the not

812
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,440
line us, like Schroder on the piano. Right. He has

813
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:25,239
been over that keyboard and I'm trying to, you know,

814
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,159
waste some time and flirt and all this. Nothing. I

815
00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:32,039
got nothing. So I finally cracked the book open, started working,

816
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,920
got into it, and I had the full rough draft

817
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:38,559
of the proposal done by the time we left that

818
00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:39,239
coffee shop.

819
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,559
Speaker 1: That's amazing, and you know, just we're here Christmas this year, Mustafa,

820
00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:52,920
it was it's right. Uh oh, he like stuff just happens.

821
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,920
Is it like having a magic alpha around? He just

822
00:44:57,039 --> 00:45:00,880
does everything. He really is amazing, And I I wouldn't

823
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,239
say that I had witnessed everything he was doing, because

824
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,079
you've had some surgeries and things that were holding you back,

825
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:12,159
the rotator cuff, and it's a lot to recover from.

826
00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:14,679
And he it was like, but it was like nothing

827
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:15,000
for him.

828
00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:17,559
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, I know, he is incredible.

829
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,159
Speaker 1: I it almost feels like it's magic in some way.

830
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,159
I don't know what that is, but I can see

831
00:45:25,199 --> 00:45:28,079
where sure you think you're going to go and flirt

832
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:32,639
and play and he was. He wasn't happen.

833
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: He honestly even after that. So he then got a

834
00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:41,480
job out in Colorado as an assistant US attorney and

835
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,559
he said to me, you should come and I was like,

836
00:45:46,639 --> 00:45:52,480
we're not. You know, we're dating felt serious. It felt

837
00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:54,920
like I was going somewhere, but like you, I'm in

838
00:45:55,519 --> 00:46:02,440
finishing my dissertation. I have a lot of obligations where also,

839
00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:05,960
like do you just up and move across the country

840
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,199
like all our family was on the East Coast? Like

841
00:46:09,639 --> 00:46:12,119
for a guy like and I have to admit there

842
00:46:12,199 --> 00:46:13,679
was a little bit of the what does this look

843
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,079
like to other people in my head going on too.

844
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,840
But he was like, actually, he's like I think he's

845
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,679
always told me on it. He's like, I think you

846
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,119
got it. If you want to finish your you want

847
00:46:26,159 --> 00:46:28,400
to finish your program. He's like, You've got to get

848
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,840
out of here because things were not going in my

849
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:36,679
favor within the department. So I decided toe he moved

850
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,599
in September. I finished out, I finished all of my

851
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:44,199
data collection, finished out my teaching, and in December, Marge

852
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:50,000
strove with me across country out to Colorado and I

853
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:52,880
was going to just We had this little apartment and

854
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:55,239
the apartment had like a fur hal closet with a

855
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,000
but it was supposed to be an office and just

856
00:46:57,039 --> 00:46:59,599
had no windows in. It was basically a closet. And

857
00:46:59,679 --> 00:47:00,960
I had a little ledg where he could have a

858
00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:04,800
desk but perfect right, no distractions and just get your

859
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,599
stuff done. So that was my plan, Like I was

860
00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:10,079
just going to focus on I had a ton of

861
00:47:10,159 --> 00:47:12,760
work to do because I had just collected everything. It

862
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,360
was like a lot of sorting. It ouse oh so much,

863
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:18,840
so much work to do. So he was on a

864
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,400
case and he was gone for like a week, and

865
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,719
when he came back, I found a job at the

866
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,800
University of Denver. It's like I couldn't stand not working,

867
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,360
so I started teaching there. While I was finishing my

868
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,639
dissertation and then but he was right, like, it was

869
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,440
so much easier, was it really? No? Because then we

870
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,320
got married, and then we had a baby, and then

871
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,079
I thought I was going to be able to defend

872
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,679
before she was born, and I couldn't quite crank it out.

873
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:49,039
So I have a picture of me rocking her in

874
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:51,320
a cradle one week after she was born, with my

875
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,119
foot and my computer on my lap, finishing up a

876
00:47:55,199 --> 00:48:03,679
few chapters of my dissertation. I think all in it

877
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:12,760
was almost three hundredth that h Where does the like?

878
00:48:13,679 --> 00:48:20,679
Speaker 1: So when we were kids, you were the lead in

879
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:26,199
school musicals, musicals put on by people who were in Broadway. Uh. Certainly,

880
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,239
to whether or not someone yells at you to put

881
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,239
in the application, you got to have the confidence to

882
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,480
say I can handle this, or maybe you're like me

883
00:48:36,519 --> 00:48:39,039
and you just kind of jump and see where it goes. No, okay,

884
00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:43,920
and I U but the confidence there just seems to

885
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:49,320
be like, I don't know, you have no fear of stuff. No,

886
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:51,519
I don't mean it like that, but I feel like

887
00:48:51,559 --> 00:48:54,199
there's something with As I look at a common thread

888
00:48:54,519 --> 00:48:57,320
I would say between you, Kevin and I is there's

889
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,400
very little fear in failing.

890
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,519
Speaker 3: I was terrified failing. I was always terrified failing. And

891
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:09,719
it's funny that you brought up the school play thing

892
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,760
because I saw, you know, we saw Oliver whatever, and

893
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,239
it looked like so much fun. And so when I

894
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,360
was in eighth grade, I auditioned, or in seventh grade me,

895
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,519
I auditioned and got caught, And in eighth grade I

896
00:49:22,679 --> 00:49:25,159
got a part in the chorus, and then in ninth

897
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:27,159
grade I was like the last person on the list.

898
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,159
And then when I was in tenth grade, I was

899
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,079
I had a chorus part in ninth grade. When I

900
00:49:32,199 --> 00:49:34,639
was in tenth grade, they were doing once Upon a Mattress.

901
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,440
And I don't know because it wasn't like I was

902
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:42,159
walking around the house singing, and it's certainly not belt singing, right.

903
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,039
Speaker 1: I just had a.

904
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:46,159
Speaker 3: Feeling that I might be able to do it. I

905
00:49:46,199 --> 00:49:48,239
didn't know, and you don't know how you sound to

906
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,480
other people. So I really had no confidence in my

907
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:53,400
ability to sing at all. I had really wasn't but.

908
00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: The confidence to go, I'm going to go out there

909
00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:56,320
and give it a shot.

910
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: I know what it was, Jansen Wu. So I had

911
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,159
a really good friend Jansen Wu in high school and

912
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:07,360
he was a genius choice still is a genius. Perfect pitch,

913
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:12,639
could play piano, could play anything. So he was really

914
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,199
kind of like there were the theater kids who always

915
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,599
got the leads and stuff, and he was like, we're

916
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:19,559
gonna show it to them. You can do this. And

917
00:50:19,639 --> 00:50:22,639
so he invited me over to his house and he

918
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,679
started playing and he was coaching me, and he's like

919
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,639
and he's like, yeah, he's like, you got it, like

920
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,559
ladder from the diaphragm. Like he coached me through that

921
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,039
whole thing. And so I'd go to his house and

922
00:50:33,159 --> 00:50:36,840
practice and practice my audition song, and I just wanted

923
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,400
to see what would happen if I really really like

924
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:45,079
gave it my all right. And they had a piano

925
00:50:45,159 --> 00:50:47,519
player and I asked if he could play for me,

926
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,599
and they let him play. So he played my audition

927
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,360
song and I just did it.

928
00:50:55,320 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. But I would say there's a confident. The

929
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,199
confidence is do you get cut, you come back. Each

930
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,599
year is a little bit more, a little bit more,

931
00:51:06,679 --> 00:51:10,159
But that first year of getting cut was in the

932
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,519
end for you. Do you understand what I'm saying like this,

933
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,679
So when I say like, you're not afraid of failing.

934
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,159
You took the shot, you got cut, You went back.

935
00:51:19,679 --> 00:51:21,559
You took the shot, you got the cut, you went back.

936
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:23,760
You believed you had a little bit of the ability,

937
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,360
but didn't know how it sounded. So you had a

938
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:30,159
friend who was endorsing you, who you fully felt. Well,

939
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,559
you said, perfect pitch. It's a rare thing. I think

940
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,719
the only person I've ever heard was Charlie Pooth. I'm

941
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,079
sure there's others that have it, but he has perfect pitch,

942
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:38,239
and there amazing right.

943
00:51:39,639 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 3: So to have that.

944
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:43,559
Speaker 1: But I think, like, you know, going off to England,

945
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,880
going off to South Carolina when you after this awful

946
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,760
bout with lime disease, and then to me, I just

947
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,239
I go, wow, that's a that's, for lack of a

948
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,239
better term, because I don't have the vocabulary you do.

949
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,360
That's ballsy, you know, I mean, it really is. You

950
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:00,800
don't think so.

951
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,679
Speaker 3: I mean, I've never thought of it that way before.

952
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,000
A speaking ballsy, I think, I think, yeah, I think.

953
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: About how most people by their own choice, and I don't.

954
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,519
I mean, how many times we hear mom say her

955
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:20,800
friend's kids were going into teaching and they were going

956
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,639
to be a teacher, much like and it was her

957
00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:25,119
friends were teachers and their kids are going into teaching.

958
00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:28,719
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all.

959
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,280
That's a noble thing. If you're going to take a

960
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,159
job that doesn't pay a whole lot and requires a

961
00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:38,880
whole lot, I think that's pretty amazing. But I would say,

962
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:43,920
like none of us. I don't know. I feel like

963
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:46,320
maybe dad and mom too to a degree. I mean,

964
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,159
she's certainly was somebody who got a master's at a

965
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:53,079
time when women weren't, had a mother who was grew

966
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:56,599
up in that misogynistic even more so right thinking, I mean, honestly,

967
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,760
that's a woman's job. A women doesn't do it, go

968
00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:03,760
their education is, and she pushed through all that. I

969
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,400
feel like there's you know, those things like there was

970
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:12,920
never you never were told you couldn't, and you were

971
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,000
you were never told you couldn't, and you were always

972
00:53:15,039 --> 00:53:16,159
encouraged leaders.

973
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,599
Speaker 3: I would say yeah, to a degree, they were always

974
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,199
I remember thinking like, what are they going to think

975
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:22,679
when I tell them I went to college, Now I'm

976
00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:25,760
going to be a flight attendant. They were excited they

977
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,000
got to fly, they got they used that free airfare

978
00:53:29,599 --> 00:53:32,000
they went everywhere. They went every They went to Russia,

979
00:53:32,039 --> 00:53:34,119
they went to Turkey, they went to South America, they

980
00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:35,320
went everywhere.

981
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:38,119
Speaker 1: You were young, and it was okay, and it didn't matter.

982
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:41,639
By the way, you could make a long career out

983
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:42,480
of that if you wanted.

984
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah you could. Yeah. But it was it was.

985
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,559
Parts of it were a really good time. I got

986
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:49,320
a drink named after me one time at a bar

987
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:54,239
and on Redondo Beach. They called it the Great Kate.

988
00:53:55,159 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: Why.

989
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 3: I was what's called a load factor on this trip

990
00:54:01,559 --> 00:54:04,360
meeting that I was the fifth flight attendant. The other

991
00:54:04,519 --> 00:54:08,039
four were flying together, but this particular leg out to

992
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,840
LA they needed because of the passenger list count was

993
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,039
so high they needed a fifth person, so called a

994
00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:17,000
load factor. So they were all going home. It was

995
00:54:17,039 --> 00:54:19,119
the end of their trip. I was laying over. It

996
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:21,719
had a really long layover for I don't remember. I

997
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,360
remember being long for layover twenty four hours, thirty hours,

998
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,440
something like that. And I got in in the morning.

999
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,000
We took a red eye, so I took a nap

1000
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,800
and I went down. I was in Redondo Beach, so

1001
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,960
I went down to the beach. There was a little

1002
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,760
beach bar right there I parked my happy ass on

1003
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,639
that stool and I drank all day and we had

1004
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,840
I had the best time. People were coming verily this bar.

1005
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:47,280
You earn points. I got a wardrobe because people were

1006
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,079
giving me their points and buying me clothes. I got

1007
00:54:50,119 --> 00:54:52,440
a T shirt and a sweatshirt and a hat. They

1008
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:54,639
named a drink after me. It was men and women.

1009
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,760
It wasn't like it was just a good time.

1010
00:54:57,039 --> 00:55:01,559
Speaker 1: It was a good good time and I was that's amazing.

1011
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:04,760
Speaker 3: I went back. It was all day too, because it

1012
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,559
was because I had a day layover, so I just

1013
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:10,440
drinking all day. I went, had dinner, went back to bed,

1014
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:12,000
got on my flight in the morning.

1015
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem. Wow, you don't have There must be

1016
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,400
something in the in the blood, because I think it's similar,

1017
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,679
similar stories like that. But and now you run a

1018
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,840
big program teaching English to high level learners. Writing the

1019
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:33,360
curriculum for that correct wrong, and it's close enough. I

1020
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,199
thought it was high level learners that we came to learn.

1021
00:55:38,519 --> 00:55:42,159
Speaker 3: The director of a scholarship program. So I'm not doing

1022
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,960
the curriculum or the teaching, but I'm kind of in

1023
00:55:45,159 --> 00:55:47,559
charge of a couple of subcontractors.

1024
00:55:47,679 --> 00:55:48,519
Speaker 1: We have with this.

1025
00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:54,559
Speaker 3: Program that's funded by the Department of Defense, and then

1026
00:55:54,639 --> 00:55:57,519
I do other things too, because one job's not enough

1027
00:55:57,559 --> 00:56:00,760
in a nonprofit. So the making curriculum is like something

1028
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,960
I do in house. So I'm building out online courses

1029
00:56:05,039 --> 00:56:07,440
to train teachers who teach adults.

1030
00:56:08,519 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: Do you like do you prefer the teaching?

1031
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 3: I think for me, I get bored very easily, and

1032
00:56:18,119 --> 00:56:22,280
I don't like a lot of administrative tasks and bullshit,

1033
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,320
and so a lot of what I'm doing right now

1034
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,639
is that there's a lot of liaising between groups of people,

1035
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,960
keep and everybody happy, a lot of spreadsheets, a lot

1036
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:35,199
of tracking, a lot of meetings, very very irritating. Creating

1037
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,159
the courses is more fun to me because it's a

1038
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:43,400
lot more creative. But I think, you know, it's always

1039
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,119
annoying to me to have to spend the bulk of

1040
00:56:46,159 --> 00:56:48,119
my time doing things that I don't really enjoy when

1041
00:56:48,119 --> 00:56:49,400
there's just so many things.

1042
00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 1: Well, it's you know, we talked to with your children,

1043
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,119
and I brought up the Halloween costumes and how absolutely

1044
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,800
incredible they are. I mean, these are to me. I

1045
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,199
don't know, Wasjia anything, but I would just think that

1046
00:57:05,039 --> 00:57:07,679
what do they say artists in the eye of the beholder.

1047
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:12,199
This stuff looks like it could be costume design winning

1048
00:57:12,519 --> 00:57:17,440
for Broadway shows or movie sets or whatever. I asked

1049
00:57:17,679 --> 00:57:21,079
each of your kids, Zara and Elias, which was their

1050
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:24,320
favorite costume they had, and they said, you, they come

1051
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,559
to you with the idea and then you make it happen.

1052
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:31,760
These things are outrageous. They're the coolest things I've ever

1053
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,519
seen in costumes. And you love doing that.

1054
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,119
Speaker 3: I do, I really do.

1055
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:40,079
Speaker 1: It's like, but again, the confidence, like they're coming to

1056
00:57:40,159 --> 00:57:40,760
you with an idea.

1057
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,239
Speaker 3: Confidence they told you. I break down every year and

1058
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,280
say it's not gonna happen. Kids, It's never gonna happen.

1059
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,320
I can't do it. I can't do it, and then

1060
00:57:49,679 --> 00:57:50,920
I collect myself and I do it.

1061
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,639
Speaker 1: Well, see this is what I'm saying, Like, I think

1062
00:57:53,679 --> 00:57:57,679
you're allowed to have those moments of doubt because I think.

1063
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 3: Sometimes they come up with things that are just defy

1064
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,840
the laws of physics and I just don't know how

1065
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:05,800
I'm going to do it.

1066
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, uh, Dad had was very creative like that,

1067
00:58:11,559 --> 00:58:13,679
and you know you and Dad were very similar. You

1068
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,679
still SUPERI kid, even I are the same wavelength. It

1069
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,519
was almost like it was almost like saying, tell me

1070
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:22,280
I'm stupid about out telling me I'm stupid. That was what,

1071
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,599
you know, but that's how he would say it. And

1072
00:58:24,639 --> 00:58:26,880
there were things about him like it's been a it's

1073
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,159
been an interesting year, I think more so for you.

1074
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,880
You know, we haven't talked about it, but in Iceland

1075
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,679
you had an accident that that involved a snowmobile and

1076
00:58:38,159 --> 00:58:41,039
and you being heroic right with your kid on the.

1077
00:58:41,079 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 3: Back right talking about that one.

1078
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,079
Speaker 1: I'm not asking, I certainly don't want to pry. I

1079
00:58:47,239 --> 00:58:49,280
just know that that was I mean, you've had a lot,

1080
00:58:50,039 --> 00:58:52,199
Like I would say, it's pretty heavy. When your dad

1081
00:58:52,679 --> 00:58:56,400
when when when apparentize uh, And we were all there

1082
00:58:56,719 --> 00:59:00,519
at the end. You and Kevin did more the lifting

1083
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:03,760
with him and the you know at certain points, which

1084
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:09,639
I always have appreciated greatly, but that enough is enough.

1085
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,920
And then you know, you go on a trip because

1086
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,199
that's what your family was planning to do. He had

1087
00:59:14,239 --> 00:59:17,880
already passed and the accident happit. I I but then

1088
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:22,360
it's all these you're laid up with really significant injuries.

1089
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:26,079
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I was I saved. I saved

1090
00:59:26,119 --> 00:59:29,719
my baby girl from the crushing weight of a snowmobile.

1091
00:59:30,239 --> 00:59:34,119
Wh inch of you asked her. She's like, well, it

1092
00:59:34,159 --> 00:59:37,800
didn't really hurt that much. But anyway, at the time,

1093
00:59:38,079 --> 00:59:40,840
sure we were. We were on a glacier. There's one

1094
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,559
rule with the snowmobile. We're all in an inner line,

1095
00:59:45,079 --> 00:59:47,760
and that was lean into the turns. And it was

1096
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,920
the least fun trip we had gone horseback riding, we've

1097
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,280
done all other things. It's only like day two, but

1098
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,360
we'd already been in hot springs and all sorts of things.

1099
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:02,559
The glacier was one color from earth to sky. You

1100
01:00:02,639 --> 01:00:03,639
couldn't see ship.

1101
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: That's the snow blind stuff they talk about, right, And then.

1102
01:00:06,719 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 3: It was like missing because it was August, so it

1103
01:00:09,079 --> 01:00:12,000
was like icy rain. You couldn't keep your visor down

1104
01:00:12,119 --> 01:00:14,199
because it was just constantly covered. You couldn't see you

1105
01:00:14,239 --> 01:00:16,320
could it was foggy. You couldn't see two feet in

1106
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,119
front of you. So you're trying to follow the snowmobiles

1107
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:21,920
in front of you. Why why on a you know,

1108
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:24,559
ten mile wide glacier you have to go around a

1109
01:00:24,599 --> 01:00:27,280
hairpin turn? I don't know, but they had a lot

1110
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,519
of hairpin turns in there, maybe for funzies. And baby

1111
01:00:30,559 --> 01:00:33,280
Girl forgot which when you're supposed to lean, and the

1112
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,079
whole time like I'm steering. My gosh, it's so hard

1113
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:37,840
to stear it. And I'm leaning as hard as I

1114
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,840
can into the turns. But when you have a counterweight,

1115
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:45,920
it doesn't it doesn't help. So anyway we go and.

1116
01:00:47,159 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: You're supposed to turn on the you're supposed to lean.

1117
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:50,960
It's just not intuitive, it's not right.

1118
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,239
Speaker 3: And she had never been on a motorcycle or anything

1119
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:53,719
like that, so.

1120
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: We've slipped.

1121
01:00:56,719 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 3: It was like slow motion. We like flipped over and

1122
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,079
I figured we'd you know, I was gonna just lay

1123
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:05,880
there and wait for the guides to come and pick

1124
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:10,119
that thing up. She was really screaming. She was terrified.

1125
01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:13,360
I mean, the poor thing. She was absolutely terrified because

1126
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,679
other snowmobiles are starting to whiz past us. So I

1127
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:20,360
don't know if she thought they weren't gonna stop, and

1128
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,079
so she well, the guides were there was one in

1129
01:01:24,159 --> 01:01:27,280
the front, one in the back, like their job to

1130
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,800
keep you know, keep count, and we weren't far off

1131
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,880
the trail. We were just kind of plopped right over

1132
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:34,840
on the turn. We just were on the outside of

1133
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,679
the turn, and they were going right around the Yeah,

1134
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:39,400
gesture doing wildly.

1135
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: Right.

1136
01:01:41,079 --> 01:01:43,639
Speaker 3: So she is screaming and I thought for sure her

1137
01:01:43,719 --> 01:01:47,679
leg was broken, and I'm like, I feel like absolutely

1138
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:49,719
I I wasn't even thinking. I'm trying to pick up

1139
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,400
the snowmobile because she's just screaming her head off and

1140
01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:55,559
I can't because I'm also pinned underneath it. My leg

1141
01:01:55,679 --> 01:01:59,480
is on hers. So the guides come over and they

1142
01:01:59,519 --> 01:02:02,039
start paying it up and she's like stop step step,

1143
01:02:02,079 --> 01:02:05,079
it hurts, hurts, it hurts. Next and so I thought,

1144
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,679
you know that her leg was broken, So I was like,

1145
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,360
I've got it. I've got it. Just I've got it.

1146
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,239
Get her leg, get her leg, get her leg. So

1147
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,840
I was holding it halfway up. They get her out,

1148
01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:18,280
and then they put the snowmobile up and they're helping her,

1149
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,159
and I'm like just watching her and they, you know, like,

1150
01:02:21,199 --> 01:02:22,840
can you walk? And then they get her up and

1151
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:26,000
she's walking and she's okay, and I freaking lose it.

1152
01:02:26,119 --> 01:02:29,639
I'm like I can't breathe now. I'm like hyperventilating. I

1153
01:02:29,679 --> 01:02:32,159
think I almost killed my kid. I'm like, if she

1154
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,960
broke her leg, like we're we're we're forty five minutes

1155
01:02:36,039 --> 01:02:38,960
up a glacier. And we were at halfway like a

1156
01:02:39,039 --> 01:02:41,360
base camp before that, how are we going to get

1157
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,320
her out to a hospital? Like obviously she was fine,

1158
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,880
but now like it's all sure, So I'm freaking out.

1159
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,320
And then uh, They're like she's fine, she's fine. Are

1160
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,800
you okay? And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine, but like

1161
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,599
and I, you know, I'm just I can't collect that.

1162
01:02:56,599 --> 01:02:59,360
They're like, she's okay, and then he looks at me

1163
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:00,800
and he's like, you gotta get it together. So I'm

1164
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,519
like trying to calm myself down and he's like, you

1165
01:03:02,599 --> 01:03:03,880
get to drive the rest of the way up.

1166
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:06,519
Speaker 1: I know.

1167
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 3: So I got in the back that they ditched, my

1168
01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:13,039
ditched the snowmobile. I got on the back with one

1169
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:14,719
of the guides. They zip us up to the top.

1170
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,280
We meet up with Mustafa and Alas, who now are

1171
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:20,360
like it was you. There're so many old people and babies,

1172
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,039
we thought for sure it was one of them. Never

1173
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:26,480
thought it would be you, guys. I was so humiliated

1174
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,599
as pathetic little video and I was like we flipped

1175
01:03:29,639 --> 01:03:31,920
over and I hurt my thumb and then on the

1176
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:37,000
way back down, my shoulders started hurting. And anyway, but

1177
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:38,880
you went through the rest of the trip. Right my

1178
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,000
hand blew up. It was all brother, I sent you

1179
01:03:41,079 --> 01:03:42,800
the picture and I was like, you see the other guy.

1180
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,159
My hand was all right, well, and I couldn't there

1181
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,559
was my shoulder of hurt a lot. I couldn't move

1182
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:52,639
it in certain ways. So when we got to Croatia,

1183
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,400
we went to Copenhagen for a few days and then

1184
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:56,800
we went to Croatia. We were going to be there

1185
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:00,679
for a week at least, yeah week. I stopped and

1186
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,880
got X rays. But it was like, I don't want

1187
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,920
to waste my vacation with doctors, right, So I get

1188
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:11,360
the X rays. There's no broken bones. Was forty eight

1189
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:14,920
years old at the time. Figure, it's soft tissue. It's

1190
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,760
going to take its time to heal. So I go

1191
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,119
through the rest of the trip, you know, just I

1192
01:04:20,239 --> 01:04:22,440
didn't scoo. I canceled scuba diving. There were things I

1193
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,599
couldn't do, but generally I was okay. And then we

1194
01:04:26,679 --> 01:04:29,280
come back to life and it can start school, and

1195
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,800
I'm busy, busy, busy at work, and you know, we've

1196
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:33,960
got Dad's party we're working on and all that stuff.

1197
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:38,199
And I it was like five weeks later we actually

1198
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,719
moved off, I broke his hand, and in between times

1199
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,559
and he could move his fingers, he's like, hey, I

1200
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:46,719
think I'm going to get an X ray. And then

1201
01:04:46,719 --> 01:04:48,400
we found out it was broken, and I was like,

1202
01:04:48,719 --> 01:04:50,239
because he said I think I'm going to get it

1203
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:51,840
X ray and I was like why, I'm like, you

1204
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,159
can move your and then I was like, don't listen

1205
01:04:54,239 --> 01:04:55,679
to me, honey, you want to get an X ray,

1206
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:57,639
Get it x ray like I've been walking around.

1207
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,559
Speaker 1: But that that was the mental in our house, right,

1208
01:05:02,599 --> 01:05:06,039
if the ship right, because I mean with the three boys,

1209
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,800
if it wasn't for their mom, they would have been

1210
01:05:11,679 --> 01:05:14,719
bones that probably grew back a little crooked, because that

1211
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:16,719
was just the way it was. You jumped off shit,

1212
01:05:16,719 --> 01:05:19,559
you did dumb stuff and then right right.

1213
01:05:20,039 --> 01:05:24,239
Speaker 3: So once his was broken, I thought, I'm not getting better,

1214
01:05:24,639 --> 01:05:27,639
Like I'm not. I'm not. I got better to like

1215
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:29,840
a certain extent, and I'm not getting better. And I

1216
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,360
had this weird lump of my thumb. So of course

1217
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:35,199
you can't go to one doctor for a thumb and

1218
01:05:35,239 --> 01:05:36,960
a shoulder, and of course one's on the left and

1219
01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:40,119
ones on the right. And after all of a sudden

1220
01:05:40,239 --> 01:05:44,360
done I had ruptured a ligament in my thumb and

1221
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:48,159
it had like like a rubber band snapping. The one

1222
01:05:48,239 --> 01:05:53,840
piece had herniated under the muscle, and then I had

1223
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,559
a full thingness rotator, cuffed tear, and a bicep thing.

1224
01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, fire all recovering from that in the middle

1225
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,320
of the holidays, and we come down and get drunk

1226
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,880
last night and stay extra day. Oh it's fun. But

1227
01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:12,519
I uh, yeah, I really think that sometimes when I

1228
01:06:12,679 --> 01:06:15,039
when I think about you, I go, boy, that that

1229
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,280
you're you're tough. You're tough. I know you don't maybe

1230
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:20,639
you don't see it unless.

1231
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, I don't know if it's tough.

1232
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,079
I think I just I don't know what it is.

1233
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:26,679
I don't have a good connection.

1234
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: You've been called you were crazy when with lime. I mean,

1235
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,400
I really think they were trying to tell you had convergence,

1236
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:35,880
which would be that it'll manifest in your body, but

1237
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:37,760
it's all in your head. We're not saying that the

1238
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:38,760
symptoms aren't real.

1239
01:06:39,519 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 3: But I mean I think about like I had not

1240
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,239
to get into all my medical elements, but I mean

1241
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:50,599
I had thyroid storm, which doesn't happen because people when

1242
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:52,800
they start having those kinds of symptoms. They get it

1243
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,119
checked out before it becomes a crisis.

1244
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,119
Speaker 1: You don't complain either.

1245
01:06:57,599 --> 01:06:59,199
Speaker 3: Well, I did try to have it checked out. I

1246
01:06:59,239 --> 01:07:01,079
thought it was strapped through. We had little kids and

1247
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,280
you know, and I just was, you know, it's okay.

1248
01:07:03,639 --> 01:07:06,239
I just you just keep going until I was really

1249
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:06,920
almost dead.

1250
01:07:08,639 --> 01:07:09,639
Speaker 1: That's that's true.

1251
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then like I had a lias on my

1252
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,719
bed because I didn't think the baby had dropped yet,

1253
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,679
like I was, but I do wonder.

1254
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, but I maybe you have a

1255
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:23,800
different I don't want to say higher pain toms. Obviously

1256
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,000
you recognize the pain, but maybe it's just in your mind.

1257
01:07:26,039 --> 01:07:26,880
It's not that serious.

1258
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 3: It could be worse, right, Oh, if this were like

1259
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:31,800
really close and I are really about to give birth,

1260
01:07:32,199 --> 01:07:34,000
this would be worse. I've had a baby before it

1261
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,119
hurt a lot. This hurts a lot, but like it

1262
01:07:36,199 --> 01:07:37,079
can't be that close.

1263
01:07:37,159 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1264
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 3: Then two minutes later, there.

1265
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: He is, uh. Yeah. I think though, when you go

1266
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,400
back and go, boy, what a what a confidence you had.

1267
01:07:47,559 --> 01:07:49,880
And I know you're gonna probably disagree, but that's the

1268
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,159
thing that I've I've pulled out of our conversation that

1269
01:07:52,239 --> 01:07:52,679
I don't know that.

1270
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:54,079
Speaker 3: I was aware off.

1271
01:07:54,119 --> 01:07:56,159
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously right to make the costumes and things,

1272
01:07:56,199 --> 01:08:00,480
but even more so to to say to a doctor

1273
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:05,960
at seventeen, is that your daughter and drawn analogy that

1274
01:08:06,079 --> 01:08:09,320
would really connect emotionally with someone, because a lot of

1275
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:12,280
times I would always say, like, especially with business, there's

1276
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,280
business and there's emotion. We like the people we work with,

1277
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,319
we feel bad we do this. Business is cold. It's

1278
01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:20,079
about it's about profits and losses. So that's what it is.

1279
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:23,520
It's money. Doctors are about making sense of what it is,

1280
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:25,319
and if it isn't something that makes sense, then it's

1281
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:31,840
it's not anything. And to have that I find that, like, gosh,

1282
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:37,239
that's really like insightful and a confidence to say to

1283
01:08:37,319 --> 01:08:40,560
the doctor in a way that will connect that's not

1284
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:42,520
I mean, that's why I said to you. It's almost

1285
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:44,119
as though it came out of nine oh two one

1286
01:08:44,199 --> 01:08:47,560
Ohero and a forty five year old grizzled writer wrote

1287
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,960
the line it really does. I don't know any seventeen

1288
01:08:50,039 --> 01:08:50,800
year olds that said that.

1289
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,520
Speaker 3: But I was pretty fed up at that point because

1290
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,279
we are seventeen. Yeah. Yeah, we had been to a

1291
01:08:58,359 --> 01:09:02,199
lot of doctors at that point before were that, and

1292
01:09:02,279 --> 01:09:05,640
I wasn't hearing that exactly, but it just was like,

1293
01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:09,399
you know, I'm sick and I'm actively trying to get better,

1294
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:12,359
and I don't want to be sick, you know, right.

1295
01:09:13,039 --> 01:09:16,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think that that that confidence and then

1296
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:20,199
to just go to South Carolina not come back and

1297
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:26,720
I don't well, okay, but I mean my thing too,

1298
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,600
is that But is she really because you raised an

1299
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,760
independent woman to go and have the confidence to do

1300
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:37,159
these things at a time we're still women were not

1301
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:41,640
paid as well, maybe respected as much. Whatever. Uh maybe

1302
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:46,399
the case today that you had that, I guess I

1303
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:48,960
never really looked at it from that perspective. And I

1304
01:09:49,079 --> 01:09:50,800
even remember as a as a little kid. I mean,

1305
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:52,359
you'd give it right back. By One of my favorite

1306
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:55,000
stories was the one Dad told about taking your door off,

1307
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,319
was that you were in college though, right, I.

1308
01:10:01,359 --> 01:10:03,239
Speaker 3: Don't know, I was in high school. I think I

1309
01:10:03,359 --> 01:10:06,079
was in I think I was in high school. Yeah,

1310
01:10:06,079 --> 01:10:11,199
I wasn't in college because I was still Uh no,

1311
01:10:11,399 --> 01:10:13,680
I was in high school. I actually remember the bri

1312
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,279
I was doing, so I was definitely in high school.

1313
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said, I clean this room where I'm taking

1314
01:10:18,199 --> 01:10:19,119
your door off, right, right?

1315
01:10:19,319 --> 01:10:21,560
Speaker 3: Right. I am so sickcau hearing your mother in nagamy.

1316
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,279
You got to clean your room. She's give me a

1317
01:10:23,399 --> 01:10:25,960
rasher shit. She won't stop. You're not a cleaning room.

1318
01:10:26,079 --> 01:10:28,560
And now I'm like, what was wrong with me? Clean

1319
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,479
your goddamn room? You pig like, come on, but that's

1320
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,800
not what I did. I said, I'm not cleaning my room.

1321
01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:37,279
And if you don't clean the room, I'm taking your

1322
01:10:37,319 --> 01:10:39,600
door of your hinges. And I said, fine, you're taking

1323
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,560
my door off the hinges. For every hour you have

1324
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:43,920
it off, I'm removing an article of clothing. Because how

1325
01:10:44,079 --> 01:10:48,119
old were you? Probably well I obviously I didn't have lime,

1326
01:10:48,239 --> 01:10:49,279
so I think I was sixteen.

1327
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: Holy shit, But do you see that what I'm saying

1328
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:57,119
the confidence, This isn't even like, this isn't like a

1329
01:10:57,319 --> 01:10:59,399
fuck I guess it is, but it's not a fuck

1330
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:04,520
you you know verbal thing. This is a strategic, thought

1331
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:08,520
out plan that I'm going to do this, and you

1332
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,600
are going to put the door back. And he folded.

1333
01:11:11,199 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 3: He folded, He folded because I yes, I did. I

1334
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,479
sat on my bed, took my shirt off. He walked

1335
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:22,119
by Sophy my bra I said, you win, you kinda

1336
01:11:22,119 --> 01:11:24,640
know when you loose. I got Yeah, sometimes you just

1337
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:26,560
kind of know when you loose. Put the doorway back.

1338
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,640
Speaker 1: I know, I'm sure not, but I just go. That

1339
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:41,000
is so like it's brilliant. It really is in a way, diabi,

1340
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:44,319
that's a little diabolical, but I appreciate it. I think

1341
01:11:44,359 --> 01:11:48,199
that that's pretty clever. And certainly your kids are delight.

1342
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:52,239
And uh, I think growing up we all got along fairly. Well.

1343
01:11:52,239 --> 01:11:53,680
I don't remember if I was too big a dick.

1344
01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 3: I'd like to think so, right, Yeah, uh no, we did.

1345
01:11:59,119 --> 01:12:00,640
I think for the most part we got along. We

1346
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,960
had our fights ally cat stitches, yeah.

1347
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: I do, But that was I would send Chuck in

1348
01:12:06,079 --> 01:12:10,319
to get you, beautiful hold me down. Yeah, he waw me.

1349
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:13,960
I've told you that. I couldn't remember how I went.

1350
01:12:14,239 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 3: That's right.

1351
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 1: I held you down and he would come over and

1352
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:21,560
scratch you. He had these sharp baby claws. He was

1353
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,239
still little chucky doll. That's so funny. Well, thank you

1354
01:12:25,359 --> 01:12:30,239
for a h I love this conversation. Yes, I figured

1355
01:12:30,319 --> 01:12:32,520
it was. It was, and I think insightful to who

1356
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:36,359
you are and what made you and the confidence and

1357
01:12:36,399 --> 01:12:41,439
the creativity and the just a mind of that wants

1358
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:43,520
to do a lot of things, which I think is great.

1359
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:45,600
You know, I was even saying to your your kids,

1360
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:47,960
I'm like, you don't have to do one thing. You

1361
01:12:48,039 --> 01:12:52,239
can do many, yeah, and do them well. But I

1362
01:12:52,399 --> 01:12:55,680
I it's it's great. I love thank you for allowing

1363
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,560
us to come for Christmas and letting Jackson crash and

1364
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:03,000
do all that. You have been a big champion of

1365
01:13:03,119 --> 01:13:05,159
his for a very very long time. And I think

1366
01:13:05,239 --> 01:13:08,199
he uh is it's a very special ta I know that,

1367
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:08,680
and so.

1368
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,600
Speaker 3: He'll always I don't care that he's ten feet tall.

1369
01:13:13,159 --> 01:13:18,159
He's my first little baby. He's my first little my godson,

1370
01:13:18,319 --> 01:13:19,840
my firstborn.

1371
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 1: He always uh yeah, and he's a he loves his

1372
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,279
aunt Kate. And every time he sees her, he's so

1373
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:27,680
big and he gives you a huggy practically swallows you up,

1374
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:32,640
you know. Little Yes, I always say to him, buddy,

1375
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:36,239
you fit in my forearm. He was seven pounds in

1376
01:13:36,319 --> 01:13:40,159
something else's it's not the bigger baby, yeah, little chicken. Yeah.

1377
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,239
All right, well, Kate, thank you for your your time,

1378
01:13:44,359 --> 01:13:47,119
your insight, the conversation and your kids were great and

1379
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,279
for a wonderful, wonderful Christmas. Ah fun it has been

1380
01:13:51,279 --> 01:13:54,479
a lot of fun for my sister Kate. Bill Moran

1381
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:55,960
will see you tomorrow.