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Chum chumbucasino dot com. 20 00:00:57.439 --> 00:00:59.679 Nover necessary word by long eighty plus terors the conditions 21 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.320 of plus up to Canadian. 22 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.799 You are now listening to true Murder, the most shocking 23 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:17.920 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 24 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:18.840 written about them. 25 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:24.079 Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. 26 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.799 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 27 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:32.959 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 28 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.480 your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 29 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:52.439 Good Evening, Berkeley, California, nineteen thirty three. In a lab 30 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:58.200 filled with curiosities, beakers, microscopes, Bunsen burners, and hundreds upon 31 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:01.519 hundreds of books, he sat an investigator who would go 32 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:04.120 on to crack at least two thousand cases in his 33 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:09.520 forty year career. Known as the American Sherlock Holmes, Edward 34 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:14.199 Oscar Heinrich was one of America's greatest and first forensic scientists, 35 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:20.280 with an uncanny knack for finding clues, establishing evidence, and 36 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:26.639 deducing answers with a skill that seemed almost supernatural, Heinrich 37 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.199 was one of the nation's first expert witnesses, working in 38 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:34.439 a time when the turmoil of Prohibition led to sensationalized 39 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:39.960 crime reporting and only a small systematic study of evidence. However, 40 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.599 with his brilliance and commanding presence in both the courtroom 41 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:47.719 and at crime scenes, Heinrich spearheaded the invention of a 42 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.520 myriad of new forensic tools that police still use today, 43 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:58.000 including blood spatter analysis, ballistics, lide detector tests, and the 44 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:02.000 use of fingerprints as courtroom evidence. His work, though not 45 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:06.319 without its serious some would say fatal flaws, change the 46 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:12.159 course of American criminal investigation. Based on years of research 47 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:17.159 and thousands of never before published primary source materials, American 48 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.840 Sherlock captures the life of the man who pioneered the 49 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:25.360 science our legal system now relies upon, as well as 50 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.159 the limits of those techniques and the very human experts 51 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:32.960 who wield them. The book they were featuring this evening 52 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:39.319 is American Sherlock, Murder Forensics and the Birth of American CSI. 53 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:43.439 With my special guests, journalist and author and documentary producer 54 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:48.800 filmmaker is Kate Winkler Dawson. Kate Winkler Dawson will join 55 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:55.240 us in a fifteen minutes and in the interim. Now, 56 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:57.919 this is an interview with Kate Winkler Donson that has 57 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:05.599 decided to do a flurry of media today. So this 58 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:08.840 is one of the one of the exclusive places where 59 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:12.599 you can get and speak and listen to Kate Winkler 60 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:17.519 Dawson talking about her latest book, American Sherlock, and so 61 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:22.920 I will well as we wait for Kate Winkler Dawson 62 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:26.879 to join us. I'm going to have the great privilege 63 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:35.279 of reading the prologue, which will introduce Oscar Heinrich Edward 64 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:41.839 Oscar Heinrich and a fitting introduction to the stories that 65 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.680 Kate Winkler Dawson will tell us about some of the 66 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:54.519 fascinating stories of Oscar Heinrich's life. This is tales from 67 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:59.560 the archive Pistols, job, bones and love poetry. His upper 68 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:02.160 job the bone was massive, a long curved bone with 69 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:06.959 nine tiny holes meant to hold his teeth. The remainder 70 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:09.600 of his skeleton was blackened by a fairly large fire 71 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:14.759 ignited by anonymous killer. Lifting up the jawbone, she examined 72 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.800 the small blades of grass that adhere to its exterior, 73 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.439 organic evidence from his hillside grave in El Serrito in 74 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:26.920 northern California. It was distressing to hold a bone that 75 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.800 had belonged to a murder victim, particularly one who was 76 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:36.199 never identified. Kate glanced over at the archivist, Lara Michaels, 77 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.199 who quietly stood across the wooden desk inside the massive warehouse. 78 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:48.759 What's next, Kate asked. She led Kate down a long 79 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:53.120 row of large cartons, one more than one hundred boxes 80 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.199 donated by the same owner. She had been given exclusive 81 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:01.639 access to a trove of material collected over five decades 82 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:05.720 by a brilliant man, a forensic scientist and criminalist from 83 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.759 the first half of the twentieth century, a man who 84 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:13.240 changed how crimes were solved before forensics became the foundation 85 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:19.160 of most criminal cases, America's Sherlock Holmes. She walked along 86 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:22.800 the tight corridor, scanning the labels on the cardboard boxes 87 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:28.319 for a common name, Edward Oscar Heinrich. When Heinrich died 88 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:30.839 in nineteen fifty three at the age of seventy two, 89 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:35.160 his youngest child, Mortimer, waited sixteen years to donate the 90 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:39.519 contents of his father's laboratory, a bastion of forensic history 91 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.800 that once monopolized the ground floor of Mortimer's childhood home 92 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:50.759 in Berkeley, California. In nineteen sixty eight, he bequeathed his 93 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:55.920 father's many boxes containing case files, evidence, personal diaries, letters, 94 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:59.920 even romantic poetry, to the University of California at Berkeley, 95 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:04.279 Oscar's alma mater and the college where he spent years 96 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:09.759 teaching forensic science. The archive was an incredible repository of information, 97 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.439 but given the university's limited budget for archival material in research, 98 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:19.480 the collection remained uncataloged and untouched for more than fifty years. 99 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:25.079 In twenty and sixteen, she discovered Oscar Heinrich hidden in 100 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.079 a short article that lauded one of the most famous cases, 101 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:33.639 the Siskiyou train robbery of nineteen twenty three. She was 102 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:37.199 astonished that no contemporary author had penned a book about him. 103 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:42.399 She requested that U. C. Berkeley open his collection for research. 104 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.040 Michaels agreed, and after more than a year of waiting, 105 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:49.560 she began to immerse herself in the bizarre world of 106 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:55.279 Oscar Heinrich, the most famous criminalist you've likely never heard of. 107 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:00.720 The boxes contain more than one hundred thousand pieces of information, 108 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:07.680 such as photographs, notes, letters, sketches, and trial transcripts. It 109 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.959 was an overwhelming and disorganized collection that was housed in 110 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:17.120 the school's off site processing center. Heinrich seemingly kept everything 111 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:24.000 from his life, personal and professional, manically collecting notes written 112 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:30.120 on napkins, thousands of newspapers, hundreds of bullets and financial journals. 113 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.679 Kate began jokingly describing him as a productive order until 114 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:38.799 her colleague, a psychology professor at the University of Texas, 115 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:43.399 suggested that he had in fact fit the diagnostic criteria 116 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:48.000 for obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which occurs in just one 117 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:52.360 percent of the population. People with OCPD have a preoccupation 118 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.960 with perfectionism, control, and order a neat life. They are 119 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:01.200 frequently extremely productive and successful, but their personal relationships often 120 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:07.200 suffer because their rigidity can manifest itself in righteousness even 121 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:12.679 anger when their control is threatened. Heinrich's already stressful life 122 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:17.120 was certainly complicated by his OCPD, but as an author 123 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:21.320 and researcher, Kate was thankful for his fastidious habit of 124 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:25.399 adding constantly to his collection. She was particularly grateful for 125 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:29.440 the numerous boxes of evidence he had preserved from criminal cases. 126 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:36.000 The evidence was plentiful, spanning investigations and unraveled over decades. 127 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:41.159 The archivist allowed her to examine pieces from a detonated bomb, 128 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:43.799 a locket owned by a dead woman who was run 129 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:47.159 down by her own car, a lock of hair belonging 130 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.720 to an actress who died during an infamous party, and 131 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:55.360 several pistols that required having their firing pins removed by u. C. 132 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:59.559 Berkeley police. As she picked up the first photo, she 133 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.279 was struck by something that seemed like an odd observation 134 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:06.399 at the time. Heinrich was quite handsome for a tightly 135 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:11.159 wound scientist. He was slight and not particularly tall, with thinning, 136 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.240 light brown hair. There was something about the sharp angles 137 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:18.960 of his face that made him magnetic in photos, a 138 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:23.440 confidence in his eyes as he cleaned a revolver. Kate 139 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:26.600 spent months staring at thousands of photographs, some taken by 140 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:31.720 Heinrich's assistance and others developed by the criminalist himself. He 141 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:36.440 was an avid photographer who relished documenting crime scenes. Kate 142 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:40.000 noted hundreds of details, like the way he squinted as 143 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:43.519 he adjusted the focus knob on his favorite microscope, the 144 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:46.039 way his teeth gripped the bit of a straight stem 145 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:49.240 pipe as a small stream of smoke billowed from its bowl, 146 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:53.240 The way his forehead wrinkled as he hunched over evidence. 147 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.960 The way his round, rimless glasses fit extra snugly around 148 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.480 his temples, a requirement for a chemist to much of 149 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:05.720 his time leaning over a microscope. As Kate flipped through 150 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:10.919 these portraits, she gleaned more details about his private lab 151 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:15.120 in Berkeley Hills, a lovely neighborhood overlooking San Francisco Bay. 152 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:20.679 Heinrich was surrounded by odd devices. Every conceivable type of 153 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:25.080 microscope was crammed onto a long wooden desk. Any extra 154 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:30.080 space was surrendered to test tubes, crucibles, beakers, lenses, and scales. 155 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.039 Behind Heinrich were shelves, though with hundreds of priceless books, 156 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.519 at least priceless to a chemist turned forensic scientist. There 157 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:46.440 were tomes on fingerprint identification, applied mechanics, analytical geometry, and 158 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:51.960 powdered vegetable drugs. The titles, written in six different languages, 159 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:56.759 would intrigue any intellectual. Blood, urine, feces, and moisture. A 160 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.120 book of tests read one cover Rusnik and papers and 161 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.559 fabrics read another. He even owned a tattered dictionary's slang 162 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:10.399 used by criminals. They seemed unrelated. A cache of mismatched 163 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:13.679 textbooks in the library of a brilliant madman, But each 164 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:16.759 was a tiny piece belonging to a bigger puzzle that 165 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.759 only he could assemble. The Portrait of a genius and 166 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:25.519 the tumultuous era which he lived began to emerge, and 167 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:30.480 it was a tumultuous era. The homicide rate in the 168 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:35.799 nineteen twenties, when Heinrich Heinrich's most interesting work began, had 169 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:38.200 increased by as much as almost eighty percent from the 170 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:44.440 decade before thanks to prohibition. For thirteen years, the federal 171 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:48.639 government banned alcohol and hopes of reducing crime, but extended 172 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:53.720 spawned new and more creative criminal enterprises. Varying levels of 173 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:57.200 corruption tainted local governments and police departments across the country. 174 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:02.000 Judges enjoyed immunity from arrests, and most major cities were 175 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:06.559 ruled by crime bosses. Poverty and unemployment were also responsible 176 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:10.080 for the increase in violent crimes, as many Americans became 177 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:13.399 desperate for security and safety, and there was an ever 178 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:17.879 growing backlog of unsolved crimes. BI was still the Bureau 179 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:22.120 of Investigation, a group of insufficiently trained officers and mostly 180 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:28.120 investigated bank fraud. Local police forces were underfunded, poorly instructed, 181 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:31.720 and mostly using investigative techniques that hadn't been updated since 182 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:35.679 the Victorian era. There would be no public federal crime 183 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.919 lab until nineteen thirty two. Violent bank robberies increased, while 184 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.840 murderous terrorized Americans, especially women, whose new found independence inflamed 185 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:48.840 both the passions and the anger of many in society. 186 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:52.559 The archaic methods of crime fighting in the nineteen twenties, 187 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.159 procedures depending on hunches and weak circumstantial evidence were futile. 188 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:03.080 Cops were combat a sneakier criminal, those thieves and murderers 189 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.919 who understood chemicals, firearms, and the criminal court system. Police 190 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:13.240 route manned and many times outsmarted. Footprints are the best clue, 191 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:15.440 declared one top cop at the time. There's no need 192 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.519 for any type of any other type of identification. Innocent 193 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:23.799 men were being hanged while criminals escaped justice. The complicated 194 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:26.879 crimes of the twenties demanded a special type of sleuth, 195 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.360 an expert with the instincts of a detective in the field, 196 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:34.039 the analytical skills of a forensic scientist in the lab, 197 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.240 and the ability to translate that knowledge to a general 198 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:41.720 audience in the courtroom. 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Welcome to a new way 221 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:48.399 to save more for the things that matter most. Welcome 222 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:55.519 to Millibank, visit Milli dot bank or download the milliapp Today. 223 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:03.320 Ladies and Gentlemen, author of American Sherlock, Kate Winkler Dawson. 224 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.360 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 225 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:09.960 greening this interview. Kate Winkler, My Dan, how are you fine? 226 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.519 Thank you, thank you very much for joining us. I 227 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:16.519 just took the liberty of reading your prologue where you 228 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:25.159 discuss everything about coming into your possession these incredible information 229 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:32.120 material from Edward Oscar Heinrich. Now I've done that introduction 230 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.039 to let our audience know a little bit about how 231 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.960 you came upon these materials and an introduction on who 232 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:45.120 exactly Edward Oscar Heinrich was. Now with this, let's talk 233 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.639 about two of the cases that you say in your 234 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:54.559 book shaped his career, shaped his reputation. And are two 235 00:16:54.559 --> 00:17:01.519 of the fascinating cases that Oscar Heinrich was inextricably. Let's 236 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:05.759 talk about May thirtieth, nineteen thirty three, in a case 237 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:13.559 you call a bloody mess and David Lampson in Palo Alto, California. 238 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.880 Tell us a little bit about this incredible case and 239 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:19.480 Oscar Heinrich's involvement. 240 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:24.200 Well, in this book, I start with this case and 241 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:28.160 I end with this case. So the book ranges from 242 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.279 you know, Oscar worked from nineteen ten until nineteen fifty three, 243 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:37.200 so over forty years, and I picked a time period 244 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.440 that I thought would be really fascinating, which is prohibition 245 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:44.720 Roaring twenties, and then you know, through the Great Depression. 246 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:47.880 And so I started with this Lambson case and I 247 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.319 end with the Lambson case because I wanted a sort 248 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.319 of seth stakes early. So I wanted you to know 249 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:59.000 who David Lambson was, and you know why he depended 250 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:02.920 on Oscar heine Rich so much as his expert in 251 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.440 his murder case. And then you'd go through the journey 252 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:13.839 through five or six other cases of what OSCARS developments 253 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:17.920 were personally and professionally, and then we end again with. 254 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:20.359 The Lambson case at the end of the book, so that. 255 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.000 We can see what the results were. And so the 256 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:25.640 David Lambson case was fascinating, and I'll just kind of 257 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:30.079 give you up a little brief bit. You know, Heinrich 258 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:34.319 was this professional forensic scientist. By the time nineteen thirty 259 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:39.480 three came around, he had solidified his reputation as America 260 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:44.279 Sherlock Holmes because he knew so many disciplines in forensics, 261 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:51.799 so biology, botany, handwriting, bloodstain pattern analysis, ballistics, chemistry, it 262 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.319 was really a pretty incredible toxicology, a very long list, 263 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.960 so he could walk into a crime scene and he 264 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:02.680 could determine any number of tests that he was able 265 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.119 to run that very a few other people knew this 266 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:09.119 amount of tests and that you know, would not just 267 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:13.160 solve the crime, but really rebuild the crime what happened. 268 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:17.079 And so by this point he has a pretty incredible reputation, 269 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:21.319 so the prosecutor who hired him was really. 270 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:22.960 Leaning on him to solve this case. 271 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:27.440 So the case is of a man named David Lambson 272 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:33.640 who was kind of an account executive at Stanford University 273 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:38.039 Press in pala Alta, California. He was good looking, young, 274 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.960 and he was married to a beautiful woman named Aileen 275 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:42.559 Lambson who. 276 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:44.759 Had a master's degree, which. 277 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.119 Was pretty unusual for anyone, let alone a woman in 278 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.519 the nineteen twenties and thirties. And they had a little 279 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:56.079 girl and Memorial Day Week in nineteen thirty three, which 280 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.720 were referring to the Lambsons had decided they were going 281 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.920 to go to a slew of parties and they had 282 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.680 a great time, and they sent the little girl to 283 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:10.519 go spend several nights with a grandmother and so David 284 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.079 and Aileen could be alone, and they came home Sunday night, 285 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.920 So the night before Memorial Day, and Eileen was not 286 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.839 feeling well. She came home late from one of their 287 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:24.200 parties and she went to bed with a stomach ache, 288 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.519 and David kind of helped her throughout the night. And 289 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.240 the next morning he wanted to do some yard work 290 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:34.440 and she wanted to take a bath, so he drew 291 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.240 her a bath, and he went outside of their small cottage, 292 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.400 which was in a very effluent area. It was not 293 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.279 a big house, but it was in an affluent area 294 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.200 called Faculty Row. 295 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:45.880 Where they bought this cottage. 296 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:50.880 So he went into the garden and started a bonfire 297 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:53.880 and started clipping all of the fruit trees they had 298 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.920 in the backyard, like BlackBerry bushes and apple trees, and 299 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.680 his neighbors were all kind of around him, and everybody 300 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.640 was gossiping and chatting. It was just a nice, you know, 301 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:08.680 cool morning. The Lambsons were planning to rent out their 302 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.319 cottage for the summer because their young daughter was having 303 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.319 a lot of sinus infections and they wanted to take 304 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:16.079 her to the mountains. So the doctor thought it might 305 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:19.400 help her, and so they were renting out the cottage, 306 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.880 and a real estate agent that morning popped her head 307 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.960 over and said, listen, I rang the doorbell. Your wife 308 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.519 didn't answer. I'd like to bring in a client. I'm sorry, 309 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.319 we don't have an appointment. And David was startled, but 310 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:33.920 he said sure, and he put on his t shirt, 311 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.200 said goodbye to the neighbors. Let the bonfire continue to burn. 312 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:41.039 And he went into the back and said meet me 313 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:42.640 at the front of the house and I'll let you in. 314 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:47.279 And he finds his wife dead in the bathtom and 315 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.640 there's blood everywhere, on the floor, over every wall, on 316 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.559 the ceiling, and the corner would later say that Aileen 317 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:59.000 was a very spelt young woman. She was, you know, 318 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.119 one hundred and twenty pounds at the most, and he 319 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.680 said the corner would say that she lost about half 320 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:08.519 of her blood, which is a lot, and she was 321 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:11.920 laying in the bathtub, and he screamed, and the real 322 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.519 estate agent comes in and within about fifteen to twenty 323 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.480 minutes he is under arrest for murder. And this begins 324 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:25.039 an incredibly high profile, controversial case because Oscar Heinrich comes in, 325 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:30.119 is hired by the prosecution. He walks into the house, 326 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.480 and the prosecutor says, listen, this guy beat his wife 327 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.480 to death. And Oscar looks the blood on the walls. 328 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.200 He looks at the blood pattern. He looks to see 329 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.960 if there's a void in the blood spray, was there 330 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.359 somebody behind her that would have blocked the blood And 331 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.960 he comes back out and resigns from the prosecutor's case 332 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.200 and calls the defense, and that's where the story goes. 333 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:54.480 Then it's a. 334 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:55.519 Big who done it? 335 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:59.440 What happens? Did she slip and fall or did he 336 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:03.200 beat her to day? And it became a massive case 337 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:08.200 in not just in California, but it was an international story. 338 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:13.599 What were the forensic innovations or the forensic evidence that 339 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:15.880 he brought forward in that trial? 340 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:21.720 It was really bloodstained pattern analysis. And so what's interesting 341 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:24.720 about that case and starting an ending with that case 342 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:26.799 is that I wanted to be clear in the book 343 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.119 that you know, Oscar did a lot of firsts in 344 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.559 forensics that were very important. He was the first to 345 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.839 introduce forensic geology into a criminal case in America. He 346 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.720 was the first to introduce forensic entomology. How bugs arrived 347 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:47.720 to a crime scene in America? You know, he was 348 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.000 an innovator with handwriting analysis. He was the first to 349 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.440 introduce bloodstain pattern analysis in the United States eight years 350 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:58.799 earlier in a different case, but not all of the 351 00:23:58.839 --> 00:24:03.240 science was good, and the science that he used, which 352 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.000 was blood stain pattern analysis, is junk science. Now to 353 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.400 consider junk science, there's an argument and certainly kick back 354 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.720 from from the experts in that community that differ, but 355 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:21.559 it is unreliable and it's really subjective and up to 356 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:27.000 the analyst. So Heinrich used these tools a bloodstain pattern. 357 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.960 He had a little dial that was all based on trigonometry, 358 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:34.720 so he used the measurements when of the tails and 359 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.759 the heads of the blood. So if you in this case, 360 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.039 we're just going to stick with Lambson's facts, which were 361 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.759 the prosecutor claimed that David Lambson, in a fit of rage, 362 00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:48.559 took a metal pipe and beat his wife on the 363 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:50.440 back of the head as she stood in the shower, 364 00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:56.359 and blood went everywhere. And if you could then look 365 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.880 at the drips of blood, so you know, you think 366 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:01.400 of it as kind of an exclam point, like there's 367 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.960 a head and then there's a little tail that experts 368 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.319 say that you can look at those drops and you 369 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.799 could tell how tall the perpetrator is, exactly where he 370 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:15.400 was standing, where she was, was she sitting, was she standing? 371 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.720 On all of that and that should inform us who 372 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:23.880 the killer is. And Heinrich did that and what he determined, 373 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.160 which is going to totally ruin all of this, but 374 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:30.039 what he determined was that she slipped and fell and 375 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.680 hit her head on the sink. And there are other explanations, 376 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:36.319 you know, I think there is a middle ground, and 377 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.200 I think you know that there are other explanations you'll 378 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:43.079 just have to read about in the book. But the 379 00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:46.799 techniques that he used are currently used today, but they 380 00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:49.799 are dubious at best, and they are challenged in court. 381 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.279 And what you'll find with young science that I'm sure 382 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:56.480 your audience will be interested in is is that there 383 00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:00.039 is in many cases not very much science in the 384 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:05.279 forensic science, and that experts overstate their importance in court 385 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.119 and that can sway a jury, and that's problematic. There's 386 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:12.200 also very sound science that is rooted in scientific research, 387 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:19.880 like toxicology, DNA analysis, but things like blood stained pattern analysis, 388 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:26.039 there are aspects to it that are accurate. So void 389 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:30.240 patterns if somebody is standing behind a victim and beats 390 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.880 them to death and blood comes backwards. Well, the person 391 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.559 who is the perpetrator is going to absorb the blood, 392 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:39.480 right the blood's going to go all over their clothes. 393 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.160 It's not going to go on the wall right behind 394 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:44.799 them because they're blocking the wall. So in a Lean 395 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:50.000 Lambson's case, every wall, every part was covered with blood spatter, 396 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:54.200 so nobody was standing right behind her beating her to death. 397 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:58.319 But there's so many mysteries in this case and how 398 00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:02.240 it unfolds and does was he guilty? And you know, 399 00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.039 does Oscar have any doubts about his guilt? And is 400 00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:09.000 he you know, testifying on behalf of a guilty man 401 00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:12.359