WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.720 On The Matt Gates Show in partnership with the Zero 2 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:06.000 Hedge Debates, Tonight, we are spending the entire hour with 3 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:09.560 two experts who will debate whether the United States should 4 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:13.160 use military force to overthrow Nicholas Maduro in Venezuela. 5 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:15.240 It's all next to the Matt Gates Show. Let's do this. 6 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:18.960 We're shaking up Washington, DC. We'll break in the fever. 7 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.679 If you have a watch this guy on television like 8 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:23.800 a machine. 9 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:26.039 It's great. Matt Gates. 10 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:30.879 Good evening, and welcome to a special edition of The 11 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:34.359 Matt Gates Show. In partnership with Zero Hedge Debates tonight, 12 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:36.920 we're doing something a little bit different, and in this 13 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.280 partnership with zero Hedge, a great website, we're going to 14 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:43.159 be able to have an exciting discussion. Zero Hedge Debates 15 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:46.520 brings smart folks together to challenge conventional wisdom and discuss 16 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:49.399 the major policy questions of the day on a variety 17 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:53.640 of digital platforms. Tonight, we ask this question, should the 18 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.359 United States overthrow the Maduro regime with military force? Taking 19 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.799 the affirmative in this debate is an annual rincone, founder 20 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:05.719 of Regional Renaissance Consulting taking the negative is Kurt Mills, 21 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:09.480 executive director of the American Conservative I'm former Congressman Matt Kates. 22 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:11.879 I'll be your moderator. The debate begins now. 23 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:14.719 Each side is afforded a four minute opening statement, and 24 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:16.640 we begin with the manual rincone. 25 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.120 So thank you for having me, Matt. I'm gonna share 26 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.040 some notes with you. Venezuela has the largest prove in 27 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.640 oil reserve in the world, contains seventeen percent of all 28 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:29.159 the oil in the world, is top ten worldwide in 29 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:33.040 iron reserves, in aluminum, in gold, and also have the 30 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:37.400 largest gas reserve in the region. Is geographically well positioned 31 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:40.560 to supply the US with oil and gas, and also 32 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:44.920 have an enormous rare air potential that kins also supplied 33 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:49.680 the US for technology and military capacity. But right now 34 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.200 we have Nicholas Maluro in power, of course, and Maduro 35 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.560 has given passport to his Bola terrorI Since twenty ten, 36 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.680 Maduro his Vola and hm us operating in our territory 37 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:07.040 harbor in Middle East terrorist groups. He has also given 38 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:13.439 two point five million acres to Iran, supposedly to agricultural issues. 39 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:15.360 But you know who is there and what they are 40 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:19.520 doing there. We got Russian and Cuan intelligence protecting the regime. 41 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.240 But who is sending right now in this moment eighty 42 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:27.240 one percent of the oil to China and it's also 43 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.520 sending drugs and criminals to the United States. And I 44 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:33.280 know what the other party is going to say, but hey, 45 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:36.599 it's only cocaine. I know the alternship in the cocaine, 46 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.159 but the cocaine is being mixed with the fentol and 47 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:41.319 the ventomy least the one that is killing people with 48 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:46.560 the cocaine also, So according to the FBI, according to 49 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:50.520 buy the FBI, it is only from five to eight percent, 50 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.599 but the last measure from the Trump administration in twenty 51 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.360 twenty one said that it's like twenty or twenty five 52 00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:59.960 percent of the drugs that is sent into the United States. 53 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:05.400 So I really don't get how anyone can think that 54 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.639 is in the national interest of the United States for 55 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:10.879 Maduro to stay in power in Venezuela. 56 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:14.520 Thank you, and now we'll go to Kurt Mills for 57 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:15.759 a four minute opening statement. 58 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:17.439 Kurt, you recognized. 59 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:22.439 Cool, so obviously rebut some of Whatmaniel just said as 60 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.560 we get through, but I think it's the first important 61 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:30.199 index on the obvious parallel. The last time the US 62 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:33.120 engaged in such an open regime changed posture, and that 63 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:35.439 of course was the war in I Rock. And I'm 64 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:38.199 not saying that this is necessarily going to be a 65 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:41.919 complete reducts of a rock, but history doesn't repeat it 66 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:43.639 oft in rhymes, as they say, and they say that 67 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.719 for a reason. It's a cliche for a reason. And 68 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:49.120 in some respects this already has the portense of being 69 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:53.080 potentially dumber than a rock. Some of the lying by 70 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:56.240 fastest of the administration. I don't think the president per se, 71 00:03:56.599 --> 00:04:00.159 but members of his administration is even more outrageous. The 72 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.639 main cause of spell as a manual just discussed there. 73 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.960 The fentanyl is provably false, and I think it's important 74 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:10.599 to contrast it because they say what you will. For 75 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:13.719 the Iraq war propagators, they at least believe the WMD 76 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.920 you claims. Even opponents of the war believed it. Then 77 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:20.839 number two, it's even less popular. This is openly for 78 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:24.720 elite interest groups. This is openly for frankly recent immigrants 79 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:27.399 in the United States who want to topple dictators and 80 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:31.279 places that they've fled. Imagine if European immigrants had done 81 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:34.000 this in the nineteenth century at the US foreign policy 82 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.759 have been weaponized to do regime change in London or 83 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:42.040 Rome or Berlin. That is obviously an inappropriate use of 84 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:45.079 US power. Number Three, this is actually closer to home, 85 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.839 and so the risks are considerable. We messed up in Iraq, 86 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:50.600 we messed up at Vietnam, but they were thousands of 87 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:51.240 miles away. 88 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:52.360 Four. 89 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.000 The Godfather offers, so to speak, given by Caracas seems 90 00:04:56.040 --> 00:05:00.720 even better and more open than what Saddam offered in 91 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:03.040 two thousand and two. In two thousand and three, and 92 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.879 yet we're ignoring it. If the goal is to drive 93 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:09.040 let's say, foreign hostile actors out of the region, if 94 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.800 the goal is to drive Chinese companies out of the region, 95 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.319 we have that offer now, and we're ignoring it anyways. 96 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.879 And number five, I think that people driving this in 97 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.160 the administration Hegseeth, the Secretary of War, Secretary of Defense, 98 00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:23.839 and Rubio, I just have to say, in a lot 99 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:27.240 of ways, plainly less prepared for this moment than Rumsfeld 100 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:32.000 or Colin Powell were. Hegseth is a neophi compared to Rumsfeld, 101 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.160 and I think clearly sees a means of political survival 102 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:38.120 by you know, knocking down drug boats. But knocking down 103 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.519 drug boats is one thing. Doing regime change in a 104 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:43.480 large and complex country like Venezuela is another. And Rubio, 105 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:45.920 for all of his talents, is not a veteran, is 106 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:50.279 not a former Joint chiefs of staff Sherman and Powell 107 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:54.959 had his reservations. I think also very importantly, just to 108 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:58.519 just get out of the way, you know, as I 109 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:01.759 believe he is, Manuel is going to has already advanced 110 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:05.800 foreign influence in Venezuela is actually trivial. The regime is 111 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:09.120 so incapable of effectively managing the country that countries like 112 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.399 China and Russia and Iran have already significantly reduced their 113 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:17.120 presence there. Additionally, this idea that the major regime is 114 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:20.560 provoking refugee crisis that will get worse of time, the 115 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:23.959 US border has already been slammed shot by the Trump administration. 116 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:28.759 The status quo in terms of inflow of refugees and 117 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.079 infro of migrants that the United States can accommodate is 118 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:36.720 already fine. Additionally, the idea that conducting regime change in 119 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:41.920 Venezuela will be trivial, some compare it to the Panama scenario. 120 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.959 Venezuela is many, many, many times larger than Panama with 121 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:50.319 the hw Bush administration engaged in nineteen eighty nine, and 122 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:54.000 the principal danger in Venezuela is a dramatic expansion of 123 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:59.240 cartels in the power vacuum. Finally, unless I'm being cut off, 124 00:06:59.240 --> 00:06:59.560 I can. 125 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:00.879 Know you've got about thirty seconds. 126 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:01.720 Go right ahead, okay. 127 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:07.360 In an American there's there's the argument that the an 128 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.279 American intervention in Venezuela cannot be regime changed because the 129 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:11.720 Venezuelan government. 130 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:13.199 Is already an illegitimate regime. 131 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:15.959 I have no doubt that Emmanuel is going to be 132 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.399 passionate about how illegitimate Nicholas Maduro is. 133 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:19.800 But legitimacy of the. 134 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:22.879 Regime is irrelevant in a regime change war. China is 135 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:26.279 not a democratic, democratically legitimate country, and this is not 136 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:28.439 a good reason for the US declare war on it. 137 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.959 Thank you, Emanuel, you've taken the affirmative position in this 138 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.120 debate that we should use the military to dislodge Maduro 139 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:40.040 from power. What would that military campaign look like? Would 140 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:44.680 it be Tomahawk missiles landing in Caracas, Special forces extraction 141 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.680 amphibious assault. Explain how we do the thing you're saying 142 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:49.160 we should do. 143 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.800 Listen, Matt, it doesn't necessarily have to be a military issue. 144 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.519 I mean, Nicolas Maluke in nagoshe then get a Venezuela 145 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:00.199 if he wants. The problem is that they do not 146 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:02.800 want to. And the other thing that I want to 147 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:06.199 clarify is that it's funny for me that the people 148 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.680 that are complaining about the supposed military action in Venezuela 149 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.000 are always compared in Venezuela with Libya and Iraq and 150 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.480 Afghanistan and those countries that doesn't have anything to do 151 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.720 with Venezuela. I don't know why they're not comparing Venezuela 152 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:24.199 with Panama and Chile or Colombia or these countries that 153 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:28.399 are receiving health from the US military standpoint to get 154 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:32.159 not only democracy, but but security for the for the hemisphere. 155 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:35.679 So I mean, Venezuela is a country that has right 156 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.960 now like ninety ninety five percent for population, is a 157 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:43.799 Christian country. I mean, we are not divided. We're not 158 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:47.799 going to have a civil war in Venezuela. Something blows 159 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:51.600 up in the country. So it is really fool to 160 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:55.720 say that on the other way, I mean there could 161 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:59.000 be like anything. I mean, I don't think that president 162 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.279 term has to put like foots on the ground. I 163 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:04.960 think that maybe can be some operational like why they 164 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:07.639 did with solely money. That can be something that can 165 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:10.120 be done. But I really don't know. I mean, that 166 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:14.000 is something that is in the national security very interested 167 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:17.120 and I know the one training that is going to 168 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:19.960 be like with with food on the ground. 169 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:23.879 And Kurt, you just heard a manual say there won't 170 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.120 be a civil war in Venezuela if the regime falls. 171 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:29.440 Do you have a different perspective on that? 172 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:32.440 Look, I think you can run the simulation a number 173 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:32.840 of times. 174 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:35.000 I think if we ran the Iraq simulation again, it 175 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:37.320 wouldn't be the exact same result. But the reality is 176 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:40.480 we're dealing with projecting what is likely to happen. And 177 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:43.279 you just compared it to Panama again. Venezuela is more 178 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:45.840 than a dozen times the size of Panama, significally more 179 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:50.879 difficult terrain in a much more dispersed populace. It also 180 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.039 has active threats to national sovereignty in the form of cartels, 181 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:57.519 which already exists, which can dispute control of territory with 182 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:02.559 any US backed regime, something that was not true in Panama. Again, 183 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:07.519 he said Iraq and Libya a don't hold bearing here, 184 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.960 and that you know, Iraq is wasn't a real country 185 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:14.440 and Libya wasn't a real country. Again, I urge people 186 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:17.960 to look at the history. Iraq fought a nearly decade 187 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:20.000 long civil war with Iran in the eighties. It was 188 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:23.039 a real enough country. People died for it. And Venezuela 189 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:25.960 itself is arguably not a real country anymore. In a 190 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:29.480 certain sense. It's already blending with Colombia. It has its territory, 191 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:32.720 is not fully controlled by Caracas. This isn't something that 192 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.200 I think the US should be getting involved with, especially 193 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:41.399 because the status quo negotiated deal with Maduro which is 194 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.639 on offer is fine. And then finally he just compared 195 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:46.960 to the Solomoni strike. Well, then I guess he doesn't 196 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:51.120 agree with the supposition of the debate. Solomoni assassinating him 197 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:54.360 did not collapse the Iranian regime. We are nearly six 198 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:57.039 years from that strike in January twenty twenty. So what 199 00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:58.679 exactly is he proposing, thank. 200 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:02.919 You, yeah, yeah, Manuel, What would be the decapitation action 201 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.399 in Venezuela. That would be akin to the solemony strike 202 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:07.120 in your view. 203 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.039 Excuse me, but I would like to ask Court is 204 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:14.600 if he thinks that the USA can trust in Nicolas Madu, 205 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.559 I mean, in twenty two eight can easily become that 206 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:23.080 we get again a Democratic Democrat president. So when do 207 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.799 you think that the US can trust in Maluu? If 208 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:31.080 he is literally sending drugs and criminals and receiving inity 209 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.000 thy China and Russia and Cuba on all the states 210 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:36.720 that are the enemies of the United States, that doesn't 211 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:39.039 have any sense. I mean, he can say whatever he 212 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:42.519 wants right now because he's scared that Trump is gonna 213 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:45.559 blow up the brain. But how can you think that 214 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:46.480 you can trust. 215 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:49.360 In that guy? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Kurt? 216 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.879 Do you how do you accept the argument that sure 217 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.200 Maduro has offered these various and sundry deals, but there's 218 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:58.519 no basis upon which we could enforce that in the 219 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:00.600 absence of this threat of military force. 220 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.480 I mean, respectullly, I just think that's a childish argument. 221 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.200 I don't trust Cure Starmer, which is arguably I don't 222 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:07.399 trust Benjamin YANYAHUO. 223 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.399 We have normalized relationship with all of these countries. 224 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.919 I think trust is not necessarily the currency in international relations. 225 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:16.840 International relations is defined by violence and anarchy. I think 226 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.799 Maduro knows the consequences at this point if he doesn't 227 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.080 come to some kind of accommodation with the Trump administration. 228 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.759 I think the force of arms and the leverage there 229 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:26.639 is sufficient enough to avoid a. 230 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:28.039 Hot war trust. 231 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.159 If we don't trust someone, then we should try to 232 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.960 do regime change in every country in the world. 233 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.200 I'll tell you what we're going to get back with 234 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:38.159 a lot more regarding what the day after a regime 235 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.840 change would look like in Venezuela, how all of these 236 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:44.799 foreign influences are impacting the discussion, and whether or not 237 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.720 the narco terrorism label is a fair one. 238 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:51.360 We'll be back with the manual. Manual Rincone and Kurt 239 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:52.320 Mills after quick Break. 240 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:00.879 Viewers are always asking me how can they watch Away 241 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.320 in live. The solution is simple. It's a streaming platform 242 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:11.919 called cloud tv now it's spelled KLOWDTV. Simply go to 243 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:15.679 cloudtv dot com and subscribe to watch twenty four to 244 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.120 seven live feeds of Oan. The live package is only 245 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:22.360 two dollars and fifty cents per month for all you 246 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.639 can watch again. Simply go to cloudtv dot com and 247 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:31.799 do it today. Hey, did you know that One America 248 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:34.799 News Network has launched a twenty four to seven Twitter 249 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:39.480 like social media replacement. We're calling it free Talk forty five. 250 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.000 So why is it branded free Talk forty five? Well, 251 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.919 free talk because you will not be censored for expressing 252 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:51.000 your opinion there, and forty five because forty five is 253 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.159 a really lucky number. So join us at free Talk 254 00:13:54.200 --> 00:14:03.759 forty five and express yourself with no fear of cancelation. Ever, Hey, 255 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.639 if your cable provider doesn't offer One America News Network, 256 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.519 you should get them a call and kindly demand that 257 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:15.679 they carryan Now, you're the customer, and without your feedback, 258 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.559 your cable provider will not know that there is a 259 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.559 strong demand across this country for One America News Network. 260 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:27.600 So please call your cable company today and kindly ask 261 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:31.440 or demand that they addaann to their channel lineup. 262 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.279 Hey, everyone, here's a question for you. 263 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:43.200 What does Roku TV, Apple TV, and Amazon fireTV all 264 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.720 have in common? The answer is that all three platforms 265 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.720 offer you the ability to live stream One America News 266 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.799 Network from your Roku TV, Apple TV. 267 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:54.159 Or Amazon Fire device. 268 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.679 Simply go to the app store, search out FORAAN, then 269 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:02.360 enjoy all the great program being offered by Alien, including 270 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:11.200 my show Real America. 271 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.799 Welcome back. 272 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.559 This is a special edition of the Matt Gates Show 273 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.399 in partnership with the Zero Hedge Debates. Zero hedge dot 274 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:17.840 com a place where you can get a lot of 275 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.639 interesting viewpoints about the discussions that matter to our day. 276 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:23.240 And now we are debating whether or not US military 277 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:26.080 force is necessary to take out the Maduro regime. We 278 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:28.919 welcome back Kurt Mills of the American Conservative and Emmanuel 279 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.320 ron Cone. Emmanuel, you're taking the position that Maduro should 280 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:33.840 be removed with military force. 281 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:37.600 Do me this favor. Paint a picture of what the. 282 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:42.320 Day after Maduro's departure looks like. Is at Mundo Gonzales 283 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:46.120 the president? Is there a military governance structure? What does 284 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.480 that look like to you? And how is it achievable? 285 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.720 Listen, man, the majority of the military in Venezuela is 286 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:55.399 not with the regime. The thing is that we have 287 00:15:55.600 --> 00:16:00.639 inside of our country the erosh On, his spies, the intelligence, 288 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:02.879 and they are all in favor of the Maduro regyme 289 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:06.279 for all reasons. So we have right now hundreds of 290 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:10.440 military in prisons or torture or being killed because the 291 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.240 regime are I mean, all the military is infiltrated by 292 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:18.320 their in so they cannot cook Maduro if they want so, 293 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.639 by the other side if we show away in Maduro. 294 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.200 I mean the worst cases scenario, worst cases scenario is 295 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.360 that we become what it was Colombia in the eighties. 296 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.799 What it was Columbia. Columbia was a state like controlling 297 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:35.320 like ninety ninety five percent of the territory and they 298 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:40.480 have communist real less in the borders, doing narco stuff 299 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.000 and doing terrorism and stuff like that. But we're going 300 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.080 to have a properly ordered and yes, no Consales is 301 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.200 going to become the president. American child is going to 302 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.799 become the vice president. But we're going to have order 303 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.720 because ninety percent of our population wants to become a 304 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.679 democracy and wants to become a country that is aligned 305 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:00.840 with the United States. I don't know if you're aware, 306 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:04.599 but Venezuela is the most pro American country that sees 307 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.359 in a region. I mean, we don't play soccer in Venezuela. 308 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.880 We played baseball when we grew up in Mannesuela, watching 309 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.480 US series. I mean, we are the most pro American 310 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.839 people that are in the region. The only thing that 311 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.119 happened is that we got a fucking election in ninety 312 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.480 eight that only thirteen percent of the population voted for chaos, 313 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.200 and then we became in that So you know that 314 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.119 it's easy to vote for socialism, but then you have 315 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:31.319 to shoot the hell out to get out of socialism. 316 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:33.920 So that is basically our problem. But we're not going 317 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:34.920 to have a civil. 318 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:36.160 War, Kurt. 319 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:39.720 I've heard this argument in response to the comparisons to 320 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:43.480 Iraq in Afghanistan. People say, well, Venezuela had an election, 321 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:47.039 the people will accept the person they voted for. That 322 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:51.240 wasn't the case in these other places. How would you respond, I. 323 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:52.920 Guess we should just take his word for it. I mean, 324 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:59.559 I suppose I'm dating. I'm debating Venezuela and Akmed Shalaby. 325 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.880 There there are always diaspora groups from these countries who 326 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.599 make all types of wild claims about what the people 327 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:09.720 on the street believe, uh, and what the country will 328 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:11.880 look like the day after, assuming that them and their 329 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:16.079 friends are put in charge. We don't know, and this 330 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:18.559 is not the US's business. 331 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:18.880 Uh. 332 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.799 The US does not need to stop all crime everywhere. 333 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.960 It needs to effectively prevent criminals and drugs from reaching 334 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:28.720 US soil in the most efficient way. This can be 335 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:32.000 done working with law enforcement and cooperative countries to interdict 336 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.519 transport and sealing the US border much more effectively than 337 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:38.799 a regime change war. And then additionally, Trump has been 338 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.880 about turning the page from the past the war on 339 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:44.240 drugs in a lot of ways. I mean, it was 340 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.400 fairly astonishing to see there. You know, on the one hand, 341 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.079 the US could fight a war over drugs in the 342 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:51.920 White House, and the other on the other hand, the 343 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:56.880 US might actually reschedule and have already has rescheduled you know, 344 00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.559 something that put millions of people in prison, which was 345 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:04.160 cannabis this week. The war on drugs is broadly has 346 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.640 not worked, and I don't think future administrations, Republican or Democrat, 347 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.079 should get involved with it. Does Maduro have ties to 348 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:15.599 the Russians, the Iranians, and the Chinese, Sure, I guess 349 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.480 he does. But the reality is how much have they 350 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.720 already helped him in his darkest hour. I think that's 351 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:24.519 evidence enough of how valuable they really view him as 352 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.599 a client state. I think the most likely scenario is 353 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:33.519 that our antagonists want us to repeat mistakes of other countries. 354 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:38.759 That Venezuela could become the American Ukraine, a war of 355 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.519 choice that bogs us down and in Trump's entire legacy 356 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:43.599 if he doesn't manage it. 357 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:45.039 Definitely Emmanuel. 358 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.680 Secretary of State Marco Rubio today said that he expected 359 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.359 that Russia would be supportive of Venezuela in the event 360 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:53.880 of kinetic conflict with. 361 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:54.839 The United States. 362 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.519 Does that increase the case for US military action or 363 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:00.920 should that give us some pause? 364 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.599 I mean, man, you and I know that Russia is 365 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.240 a little bit busy with the grain right now. That 366 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:10.960 is only worse. I mean that that that I mean, 367 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.920 they are providing that with intelligence and stuff like that, 368 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.759 but they're not going to work with the United States 369 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.480 for Venezuela. That that is ridiculous. On the other side, 370 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:25.759 I mean, I really cannot understand how anybody can even 371 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.839 think that it's better for the interests of the United 372 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.920 States to have Nicholas Maduro there than to have Maria 373 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.039 Kurina Machial or Munda Gonzales. I mean, it's like, what 374 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.079 do you prefer to have a profile like Javier Mile 375 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.519 or Nagibukele governing Venezuela or do you prefer to have 376 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:47.599 Maduro that you know that is in the other side 377 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:51.160 and it's giving all the resources of Minezuela to the 378 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.279 enemies of the United States. I mean, if we are 379 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:58.480 going to continue with that rhetoric or with that isolation 380 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:01.640 and stuff, why w y then we don't give to 381 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.440 China the Panama Canal on all the gas that we 382 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:07.720 have in Argentina or in all the region. I mean, 383 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:12.079 it's ridiculous. If you are going to be the superpower 384 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:16.400 of the world, you need to put order in your hemisphere. 385 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.519 If you're not going to do that, the other countries 386 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:21.319 are going to do that and you are going to 387 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.160 lose all the respect in the world. 388 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:27.039 Yeah, Kurt, I've heard this argument as well, that it's 389 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:31.480 one thing to criticize US intervention oceans away and places 390 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:34.160 where we're playing an away game, but Emmanuel says, this 391 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.160 is a home game. This is actually where we ought 392 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.720 to have this intense focus on who's running other countries, and. 393 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:41.799 That's why it's so risky. 394 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.519 I mean, the US can maintain hegelity in its region 395 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:49.480 easily the most dangerous way and the most likely way 396 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:51.720 for that not to be the case is if it 397 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:54.920 becomes a pariah in its own region, right, it would 398 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:59.559 be very cheap for the Russians the Chinese to you know, 399 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.759 subtle funded an insurgency in the country in order to 400 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:06.759 bogg us down and humiliate any American administration that wants 401 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:09.000