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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to La Not So Confidential, the premiere

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<v Speaker 1>forensic psychology podcast. My name is doctor Shiloh.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm doctor Scott, and we host a podcast that

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<v Speaker 2>explores the intersection of forensic psychology, true crime, and how

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<v Speaker 2>those concepts are represented in entertainment. We wanted to take

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<v Speaker 2>a moment and update this very first episode for anyone

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<v Speaker 2>just discovering our little pod and starting off at the

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<v Speaker 2>very beginning with us. No matter what year you're currently

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<v Speaker 2>in now. When we started this show back in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>our formula might not have been as clear as that

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<v Speaker 2>description that I just gave you our first recording of

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<v Speaker 2>our first episode. That night, we were just two best

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<v Speaker 2>friends who happened to be forensic psychologists, actively working in

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<v Speaker 2>this profession in actual forensic settings, and we saw a

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<v Speaker 2>void in the podcast space of people talking about the

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<v Speaker 2>real ins and outs of this job and how it

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<v Speaker 2>relates to true crime and the legal system.

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<v Speaker 1>We were hoping to find an audience that would be

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<v Speaker 1>interested in us sharing some real clinical research that found

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<v Speaker 1>endlessly fascinating. This has been an eight year project of

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<v Speaker 1>creative growth, professional growth, and an enormous amount of data

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<v Speaker 1>being put out into the world in these relatively small bites.

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<v Speaker 2>Starting at the beginning of a podcast can be daunting.

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<v Speaker 2>This is why we wanted to take a step back

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<v Speaker 2>and address episode one.

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<v Speaker 1>We are so happy that you're listening, but maybe with

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<v Speaker 1>some of this orientation it will allow you to get

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<v Speaker 1>even more value out of our catalog of work. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a ton of benefit you can get from

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<v Speaker 1>binge listening through our archives, and we believe that this

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<v Speaker 1>content builds upon itself, but really there's no need to

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<v Speaker 1>listen in order. There might be some repetition, but as

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<v Speaker 1>we know, when you're learning a new skill or topic,

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<v Speaker 1>it can be super helpful to have some reminders along

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<v Speaker 1>the way, and there were a number of episodes that

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<v Speaker 1>we ended up finding new research for later, and we

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<v Speaker 1>definitely go back and address that.

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<v Speaker 2>We are super excited that you're here and you're about

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<v Speaker 2>to start on a journey of getting to know what

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<v Speaker 2>the real forensic psychology world is like and also getting

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<v Speaker 2>to know us. We would love for you to subscribe

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<v Speaker 2>to the show right off the bat, but we also

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<v Speaker 2>know there's a ton of other material that lives on

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<v Speaker 2>beyond this podcast. You can visit our website, which is

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<v Speaker 2>linked in the show notes to peruse all of our resources,

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<v Speaker 2>and there are a lot of them for each episode,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as links to guest spots that we've done

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<v Speaker 2>on other shows, and just a ton of other information.

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<v Speaker 1>And you can also go over to our YouTube channel

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<v Speaker 1>where we hosted a live show called Behind the Couch,

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<v Speaker 1>where we typically talk to other people in the true

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<v Speaker 1>crime criminal justice world. Our Patreon is also still up

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<v Speaker 1>and running and anyone can join for just a dollar

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<v Speaker 1>a month to have access to all of that content

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<v Speaker 1>there as well. With that, we hope you enjoy this

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<v Speaker 1>bumbling first introductory episode to get to know who we

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<v Speaker 1>are and why we started doing this in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>We hope that you'll show us some grace with the technology,

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<v Speaker 2>the sound quality or lack thereof, and also with us

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<v Speaker 2>finding our way as hosts. Trust us, it gets better

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<v Speaker 2>with time, and we hope that you have as much

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<v Speaker 2>fun listening as we did recording. Let us know what

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<v Speaker 2>you think, thanks, folks. Hi, folks, welcome to the intro

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<v Speaker 2>podcast of La Not So Confidential. This is a podcast

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<v Speaker 2>devoted to the subject of forensic psychology. I'm doctor Scott.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a forensic psychologist working at Southern California. I'm here

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<v Speaker 2>with my amazing best friend and co hosts.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Shiloh, and I am also a licensed psychologist in

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<v Speaker 3>the state of California and a forensic psychologist.

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<v Speaker 4>So we're here because we want to.

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<v Speaker 2>Provide some education on the subject of forensic psychology. In

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast world, there's a lot of great podcasts about

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<v Speaker 2>different kinds of psychology, different.

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<v Speaker 4>Areas, different areas of study.

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<v Speaker 2>And research, but there's virtually nothing on the field of

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<v Speaker 2>forensic psychology by people who are actually working in the field.

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<v Speaker 2>This is what we hope to bring to you. We

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<v Speaker 2>hope to bring some fun as well as some maybe

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<v Speaker 2>some education. Hopefully you'll enjoy this the way we enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>the exploration of the work that we're very passionate about.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a licensed m FT. I'm also a licensed psychologist.

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<v Speaker 2>My emphasis in my doctoral studies was family forensics, so

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<v Speaker 2>I have a background of training in being an expert witness.

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<v Speaker 2>I work in the fields of family law, family and

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<v Speaker 2>child child custody, evaluation, mediation, conflict resolution, and I'm also

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<v Speaker 2>trained in crisis negotiation.

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<v Speaker 3>Shiloh, so I hold a master's and a doctorate in

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<v Speaker 3>forensic psychology and those are both from Alliant International University

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<v Speaker 3>here in Los Angeles, and as far as my expertise

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<v Speaker 3>in working with forensic clients, I've really focused on.

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<v Speaker 5>Working with offenders and so I have worked.

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<v Speaker 3>With them before they go to prison. I actually still

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<v Speaker 3>have a private practice in which I do this, and

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<v Speaker 3>then working with them when they get out of prison,

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<v Speaker 3>primarily evaluations and then treatment. So I have recently shifted

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<v Speaker 3>to working in law enforcement psychology this year and I

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<v Speaker 3>have a whole new clientele. So looking at the world

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<v Speaker 3>of forensic psychology, I think between the two of us,

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<v Speaker 3>we have quite of experience from different environments, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>what we really want to bring.

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<v Speaker 4>To this podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>We should almost mention that we both come to this

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<v Speaker 2>field from very different fields. We came to psychology as adults,

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<v Speaker 2>as opposed to some people who go right into doctoral

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<v Speaker 2>work from undergrad. I was an entertainment professional in southern

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<v Speaker 2>California for twenty years, working as an agent's assistant, a

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<v Speaker 2>casting director, a talent manager, and eventually a line producer

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<v Speaker 2>for DVD content. And Shiloh has additionally a fascinating background

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 4>Tell us about that well.

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<v Speaker 3>I worked in law enforcement for ten years and seven

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<v Speaker 3>of those ten years I was a police.

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<v Speaker 4>Officer, and you come from a.

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<v Speaker 3>Very heavy law enforcement family, So I like to tell

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<v Speaker 3>my clients now, I am a daughter, sister, wife of

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<v Speaker 3>law enforcement officer, so I have lived and breathed that

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<v Speaker 3>life for a long time, which brings a really unique perspective.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm sure, But yeah, I was just a normal patrol

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<v Speaker 5>cop for seven years.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is really going to be a fascinating perspective on

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<v Speaker 2>everything that we talk about.

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<v Speaker 5>Sure, I think you know.

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<v Speaker 3>When I came to you with this idea, it was

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<v Speaker 3>really trying to marry a few things that were interested in.

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously true crime, obviously some of the entertainment and media

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<v Speaker 3>around it, even if it is fiction, and looking at

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<v Speaker 3>the forensic psychology topics that are kind of weaved in there.

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<v Speaker 3>But I also felt like the other podcasts and other

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<v Speaker 3>entertainment outlets that I turned to are constantly asking for

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<v Speaker 3>experts in the area to come in and talk because

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<v Speaker 3>maybe they don't have that expertise, which is sometimes entirely

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<v Speaker 3>the whole point.

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<v Speaker 5>It's just entertainment based.

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<v Speaker 3>But I feel like a lot of times I'm sitting

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<v Speaker 3>in my car kind of screaming at the radio because

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<v Speaker 3>a term is wrong. I am writing letters to Karen

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<v Speaker 3>and Georgia on my favorite murder because I want to

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<v Speaker 3>just kind of set something straight. And they're so wonderful

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<v Speaker 3>by the way to read these letters and take the input,

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<v Speaker 3>but for us to really be the subject matter experts

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<v Speaker 3>and apply that.

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<v Speaker 4>To all of the above.

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<v Speaker 2>So hopefully we're going to be able to give you

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<v Speaker 2>a perspective on what we do in our work and

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<v Speaker 2>what we want to do to keep it really interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>Is we're going to vary.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to go back and forth between true crime,

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<v Speaker 2>things that are actually going on right now, that are

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<v Speaker 2>in proceedings that would be known to a larger audience,

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe some things that are kind of obscure. They

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<v Speaker 2>might be subjects or crimes proceedings trials that you don't

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<v Speaker 2>know anything about, but we think that they're really interesting,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll tell you why these are particularly interesting. It

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<v Speaker 2>may relate to how law is going to change or

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<v Speaker 2>how it's impacting culture at large. We also are going

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<v Speaker 2>to be bringing in other experts in the field. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to be bringing in law enforcement experts as well

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<v Speaker 2>as mental health experts that go even farther and deeper

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<v Speaker 2>in those certain areas of expertise than we do, because

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<v Speaker 2>we always want to challenge our own fixed notions about things.

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<v Speaker 2>We want to make sure somebody comes in and shakes

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<v Speaker 2>us up a little bit as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I think it's also important to note that because

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<v Speaker 3>we are licensed psychologists and we are not just somebody

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<v Speaker 3>starting a podcast that doesn't have any obligation to any

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<v Speaker 3>professional guidelines, we do. Absolutely, so there may be some

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<v Speaker 3>carefully worded sentences coming from us because we need to

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<v Speaker 3>make sure we are not crossing or breaking any guidelines

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<v Speaker 3>or rules or.

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<v Speaker 5>Ethics standards that we do have to abide by.

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<v Speaker 3>So we can't, as much as we're going to keep

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<v Speaker 3>this casual and kind of you make it very personal

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<v Speaker 3>and colorful, we can't just really fly by the seat

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<v Speaker 3>of our pants in a lot of different areas. We

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<v Speaker 3>may even have to stay away from certain cases that

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<v Speaker 3>are sensitive to the agencies.

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<v Speaker 4>That we work with.

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<v Speaker 2>So forensic psychologists are most commonly are licensed psychologists who

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<v Speaker 2>specialize in applying psychological knowledge to areas in the criminal

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<v Speaker 2>and civil arenas that are directly related to legal matters.

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<v Speaker 4>We hold graduate.

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<v Speaker 2>Degrees in psychology, and those are either a PhD or

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<v Speaker 2>a society. Sometimes you can have an EED which is

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<v Speaker 2>an educational psychology degree, but that's very rare.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would say the simplest way to think about

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<v Speaker 3>it is anywhere where psychology and the criminal justice system overlap, which.

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<v Speaker 5>Could be huge.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I have friends that are doing child custody

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<v Speaker 3>evaluations for courts, your experience with working in the prisons,

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<v Speaker 3>just doing evaluations for courts, competency to stand trial, insanity evaluations,

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<v Speaker 3>sexually violent predator evaluations.

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<v Speaker 5>Anywhere when those areas overlap, that's going to be your

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<v Speaker 5>forensic psychology.

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<v Speaker 2>So right, And I should have said that earlier. I

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<v Speaker 2>did work in the state corrections system for many years,

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<v Speaker 2>so in this line of work, sometimes forensic psychologists are

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<v Speaker 2>integrally involved in helping to design newer prisons. Unfortunately, that

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<v Speaker 2>does not happen enough, and a lot of what happens

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<v Speaker 2>in the prison system now is they're sort of trying

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<v Speaker 2>to use an old prison the physical design of the

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<v Speaker 2>building for treating their mentally ill inmates, and that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>work so well. We wish there was more involvement with

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<v Speaker 2>forensic psychologists and that design process. So, like Charlot said,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that juxtaposition between criminal justice in other words, law enforcement,

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<v Speaker 2>academic training, corrections, and then so criminal Yeah, you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about right.

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<v Speaker 3>So just kind of distinguishing with criminal psychology. I think

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<v Speaker 3>for the audience, probably most people think of criminal profiling

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<v Speaker 3>when they think of something like that very rare, something

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<v Speaker 3>that is, you know, probably not even done by psychologists.

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<v Speaker 5>For the most part.

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<v Speaker 3>You're going to find the most criminal profilers working with

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<v Speaker 3>the Behavioral Analysis Unit in the FBI, and they often

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<v Speaker 3>are not psychologists, and they're special agents that are specially trained.

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<v Speaker 3>But there are case specific type of consultations that law

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<v Speaker 3>enforcement psychologists can be a part of. If you're working

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<v Speaker 3>with a law enforcement a can see that want some

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<v Speaker 3>input on their cold case or their unsolved serial killer

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<v Speaker 3>or serial rape case, that they may go to somebody

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<v Speaker 3>that works with their department as a psychologist and has

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<v Speaker 3>expertise in the background.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, Labby, but because I always think I have

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<v Speaker 2>to explain to people were not Bed Wong kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like just hanging out around the Law and Order Police office,

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<v Speaker 2>those episodes where Bead just suddenly shows up and drops

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<v Speaker 2>some wisdom on.

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<v Speaker 4>When I got this most recent job.

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<v Speaker 3>My brother goes, you're that guy, That's exactly what I was

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<v Speaker 3>talking about.

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<v Speaker 4>No offense to be d wom. He's a wonderful actor.

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<v Speaker 2>We just wish it was a little bit more accurate

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<v Speaker 2>about how law enforcement psychologists are fold into that.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't worry if this part seems dry, We're gonna weave

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<v Speaker 3>in a hefty amount of entertainment.

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<v Speaker 5>For you with all of those shows that you guys

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<v Speaker 5>love so much.

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<v Speaker 4>But yeah, so, I guess I didn't say that.

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<v Speaker 3>Currently I work for a large law enforcement agency where

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<v Speaker 3>my job is divided between clinical services for law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 5>As well as training and then soon to be part

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<v Speaker 5>of crisis negotiation team.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, You're going to love that there's options for a

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<v Speaker 3>case specific consultation that I was just speaking about.

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<v Speaker 2>We're both really really lucky in that we get to

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<v Speaker 2>do some of the most amazing trainings, really hardcore trainings

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<v Speaker 2>for our job. Shiloh's about to come up on a

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<v Speaker 2>training that I got to do last year with the FBI.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm incredibly jealous because I would I would pay to

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<v Speaker 2>do it again.

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<v Speaker 5>It's the.

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<v Speaker 2>Crisis Negotiation Tactics or Christious Negotiation Team training for the FBI,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's really really amazing because the FBI has a

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<v Speaker 2>standardized protocol for or how to handle full on SWAT

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<v Speaker 2>situations and de escalation of really really tense situations, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>which can include someone you know that's a hostage situation

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<v Speaker 2>or a barricade situation, or someone that's about to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>not only cause harm to themselves, but their attempt to

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<v Speaker 2>commit suicide could cause harm to a lot of other people.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a great training we'll.

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<v Speaker 3>Share with you as we get to go to these

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<v Speaker 3>different trainings. I have lovingly referred to myself as a

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<v Speaker 3>training whore throughout my career because I think it's part

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<v Speaker 3>of just loving to learn and how much it motivates

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<v Speaker 3>me to want to put these new skills to task.

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<v Speaker 2>We call it La Not So Confidential because living in

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<v Speaker 2>a large urban area, there's a lot of crime here

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<v Speaker 2>and even though it's a better environment than it was

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<v Speaker 2>in the past, you know, this city, the juxtaposition between

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<v Speaker 2>criminality and entertainment has long existed, and there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of great material to pull from. We're both obsessed with

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of very well known cases such as Heaven's

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<v Speaker 2>Gate that was a major event that happened here years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, I think We're at the twenty year anniversary,

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<v Speaker 2>so we got to cover that pretty soon.

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<v Speaker 4>We got to talk talk about Calton involvement.

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<v Speaker 5>Southern California seems to be a breeding ground for.

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<v Speaker 4>Cults, Yeah, definitely, But just the history.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, I love the history of.

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<v Speaker 3>The city now that we're both working downtown proper in LA,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, from famous cases like the Black Dahlia case,

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<v Speaker 3>just to no locations of driving by the area where

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<v Speaker 3>USC now is and thinking, oh, that's where her body

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<v Speaker 3>was dumped, or she hung out.

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<v Speaker 5>At this bar and some of those locations.

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<v Speaker 3>Are still there, or the old architecture and buildings are

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<v Speaker 3>still there.

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<v Speaker 5>All of that I think comes into.

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<v Speaker 3>Just the interest and fascination with it all, and weaving

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<v Speaker 3>that into our title I.

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<v Speaker 5>Think is fitting as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, So I think it's really important to talk about why,

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<v Speaker 3>just leading up to doing this, how we got interested.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously we have a career that mirrors some

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<v Speaker 3>of our sort of nerdy interest in this stuff. Like

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<v Speaker 3>you had mentioned before, I grew up in law enforcement family,

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<v Speaker 3>so it was just there in front of me, parents

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<v Speaker 3>talking in code, talking about different events that had happened

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<v Speaker 3>or cases they worked. My dad worked as a child

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<v Speaker 3>abuse detective, my mom worked as a domestic violence detective.

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<v Speaker 3>My stepdad worked major narcotics crimes.

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<v Speaker 5>So yeah, it really rancam it right when.

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<v Speaker 2>You said that is like great, she's talking about coming

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<v Speaker 2>from law enforcement and I come from a family of

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<v Speaker 2>mental illness.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, just what got me into psychiogy? And yeah, right exactly, So.

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<v Speaker 3>That was always around. I don't know that necessarily sparked

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<v Speaker 3>my interest. That just felt kind of normal, but really early.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I grew up in the eighties, so my

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<v Speaker 3>parents would watch things like Unsolved Mysteries, which was the

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<v Speaker 3>creepiest shit.

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<v Speaker 4>Now, yeah, for again, Yeah, that was You're right, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Mean just and I know there's other podcasts to talk

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<v Speaker 3>about how nostalgic hearing the host's voice or hearing the music.

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<v Speaker 4>To me, it's frightening.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, I just.

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<v Speaker 3>Especially the unsolved crimes and there's people still out there,

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<v Speaker 3>and that was really scary.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and that was also very different from any other

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<v Speaker 2>show at the time, any other cop show, any other mystery,

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<v Speaker 2>any other supernatural show, because it was dark and you're

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<v Speaker 2>sitting there watching it knowing this happened.

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<v Speaker 4>These are real now, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>He made it a little bit more lurid, but really

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<v Speaker 2>I was sucked in by that as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I think another big point for me, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know if it sparked my interest or just also

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<v Speaker 3>scared the shit out of me, was I remember being

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<v Speaker 3>at my dad's house and the news coming on and

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<v Speaker 3>they had the breaking news that the night stocker, Richard Marris,

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<v Speaker 3>had been caught, and I remember being very frightened and.

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<v Speaker 5>My dad saying, no, it's okay, he's caught now.

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<v Speaker 4>But something about that.

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<v Speaker 5>News broadcast just really stuck with me.

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<v Speaker 3>And I also think that's just such a fascinating case

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00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:32.680
<v Speaker 3>and taking place in all kinds of southern California.

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<v Speaker 5>Areas and then eventually ending up in East LA was

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<v Speaker 5>really interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>When I decided to major in criminal justice and undergrad

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<v Speaker 3>I eventually got a job as a police cadet at

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<v Speaker 3>a local police department and I was put in charge

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<v Speaker 3>of property and evidence, and I really I think my

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<v Speaker 3>first obsession was the John Vaney Ramsey case. It is

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<v Speaker 3>for a lot of people, but I was on forums

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<v Speaker 3>back then when that was kind of the only thing,

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00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.319
<v Speaker 3>and talking to these other I don't know, seem like

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<v Speaker 3>housewives all over the country just kind of doing our

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<v Speaker 3>own web slewth thing and throwing theories out there, and

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<v Speaker 3>I thought it was just amazing.

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<v Speaker 5>And I still to this day if.

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<v Speaker 4>I feel like God would say, Hey, what.

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<v Speaker 5>Question do you want to answer before you die?

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<v Speaker 4>I want to know who child?

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<v Speaker 3>No money arounds because with as much research and reading,

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<v Speaker 3>and even with kind of the new look at it

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00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.720
<v Speaker 3>that was done earlier this year and the.

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<v Speaker 5>TV show they put together on that, I'm still as

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<v Speaker 5>clueless as I.

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<v Speaker 4>Was day one.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's confusing, it's completely because they I mean, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>go into it. We definitely have to do an episode

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<v Speaker 2>on that because the crime scene got so polluted. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's if we'll ever know.

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<v Speaker 5>And that's what the experts have really said.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, you look at doctor Henry Lee and he

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<v Speaker 3>has re examined that scene and just said, this will

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<v Speaker 3>never be solved, Yeah, because of the evidence being destroyed.

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<v Speaker 5>So but for me, I mean, that was a real

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<v Speaker 5>big obsession.

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<v Speaker 3>And after that I ended up graduating and getting a

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<v Speaker 3>job as a.

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<v Speaker 5>Police officer, and then you know, a couple of years

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<v Speaker 5>later started my graduate studies.

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<v Speaker 3>So it stayed with me. I remember, you know, turning

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<v Speaker 3>to podcasting. I mean that is sort of new for me.

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<v Speaker 3>I know it's not for you, but you want to

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<v Speaker 3>talk a little bit how you got.

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<v Speaker 4>Interested in true crime.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, there my intro to it was a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit different because I wasn't obviously, I wasn't from a

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<v Speaker 2>law enforcement family, and I worked in entertainment, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that there were there were two seminal things that

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<v Speaker 2>grabbed my attention. One I remember I was living in

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<v Speaker 2>Chicago back in the late eighties for a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years after I got an undergrad and I remember when

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<v Speaker 2>Oprah was not a huge show, but it was the

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<v Speaker 2>show to watch because there was always something interesting on,

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00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:10.799
<v Speaker 2>right And it was when they interviewed Ray Bucky from

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<v Speaker 2>the McMartin preschool hearings. And I had never heard of it,

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<v Speaker 2>because at that time in my life was young and

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<v Speaker 2>dumb and didn't you know, did not stay up on

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<v Speaker 2>current events. But here I am watching this show and

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<v Speaker 2>I remember I think I was eating dinner or something,

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00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:29.839
<v Speaker 2>and like the fork stopped halfway to my mouth as

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00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.880
<v Speaker 2>they were interviewing him. Because even in my ignorance of

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<v Speaker 2>world events, and you know, I was living a different life,

396
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:41.920
<v Speaker 2>then I thought, this guy's innocent wow thought, I mean,

397
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<v Speaker 2>like as clear as a bell, it came to me,

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<v Speaker 2>this guy is innocent, this is messed up.

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<v Speaker 4>And I became obsessed with that. But that was you know,

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00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:50.559
<v Speaker 4>before we had so much.

401
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Information accessible from a computer, where now you can get

402
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.279
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of stuff. But that stayed with me for years,

403
00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:02.440
<v Speaker 2>all through my other career and entertainment, just always wondering.

404
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:05.359
<v Speaker 2>And there's some other things that have recently come up

405
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.720
<v Speaker 2>about that that are really shocking, I mean shocking in

406
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:13.519
<v Speaker 2>that that family, the BUCkies, the mc martin's, they were

407
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:17.119
<v Speaker 2>completely failed by the justice system and by the mental

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00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:18.440
<v Speaker 2>health system as well.

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<v Speaker 4>And we'll talk more about that.

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<v Speaker 5>Did I ever tell you that my dad was called

411
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:23.359
<v Speaker 5>in as a special investment?

412
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:28.440
<v Speaker 3>No shit, Okay, yes, okay, we got to get your dad.

413
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<v Speaker 4>I did not know that those I know.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the other thing was a show that was

415
00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:38.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, people who aren't who are not familiar with it,

416
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:41.799
<v Speaker 2>or you know, watch a lot of reality television now,

417
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:46.440
<v Speaker 2>don't realize how little of it there was back in

418
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:52.200
<v Speaker 2>the early nineties. And you know, as cable expanded, the

419
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.880
<v Speaker 2>networks had to generate content content, you know, so one

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00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:01.400
<v Speaker 2>of the earliest ones was a show called Citydial so good.

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00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that was such a great show. And

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00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:09.279
<v Speaker 2>it was a great show, not because it was perfectly

423
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:11.000
<v Speaker 2>well done. There was a lot of holes in it,

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00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:14.000
<v Speaker 2>but it was made the most sort of run of

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<v Speaker 2>the mill crimes.

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<v Speaker 4>It turned them into the most lurid things, oh so salacious.

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00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.960
<v Speaker 3>I could sit there and lay in bed and probably

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00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.599
<v Speaker 3>watch six episodes and not even know the times.

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00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:27.119
<v Speaker 2>It's like forensics files, like forensic files, like completely addictive.

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<v Speaker 2>But the thing that hooked me in as I'm sitting there,

431
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:33.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, living in my crappy apartment in Hollywood, you know,

432
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:35.279
<v Speaker 2>with like I think it was the middle of a

433
00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:37.759
<v Speaker 2>heat wave or something and I didn't have any air conditioning,

434
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.720
<v Speaker 2>but I remember that one of the episodes came on

435
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.799
<v Speaker 2>and Paul Winfield, God rest his soul, he had a

436
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.279
<v Speaker 2>most wonderful voice. It was a voiceover artist that worked

437
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:53.279
<v Speaker 2>for years in television and film, and he had a

438
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:57.599
<v Speaker 2>grade voice. He would speak like this, and he caught

439
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.119
<v Speaker 2>me because the episode was about something that happened in

440
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:04.759
<v Speaker 2>my hometown, and the way he described my hometown, which

441
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:10.720
<v Speaker 2>is Huntsville, Alabama, was the rich upper crust of Huntsville, Alabama,

442
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:12.599
<v Speaker 2>didn't like the.

443
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:16.680
<v Speaker 4>Low life trash from Birmingham coming in which one were

444
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:17.279
<v Speaker 4>you by the life?

445
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Well that's little LEVI I was not rich, upper crust

446
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.200
<v Speaker 2>of a Hunt school. But the thing that was amazing

447
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.440
<v Speaker 2>was it was a crime. It was my optometrist, and

448
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.000
<v Speaker 2>he had been he had been murdered, and it was

449
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:35.839
<v Speaker 2>set up by his family members. And so we'll we're

450
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:38.640
<v Speaker 2>gonna explore out in a little bit later too. But

451
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:40.720
<v Speaker 2>I also like other podcasts.

452
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:41.000
<v Speaker 4>I know you like.

453
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.799
<v Speaker 5>I love my Favorite Murder. I mean my favorite Murder,

454
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:51.079
<v Speaker 5>not those women are hilarious, and yeah, I just I

455
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:51.640
<v Speaker 5>adore them.

456
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:55.440
<v Speaker 3>I adore everything about the podcast that I.

457
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:56.680
<v Speaker 4>Listened to that they are.

458
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:01.240
<v Speaker 3>There's so much entertainment value there that I don't mind

459
00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:04.559
<v Speaker 3>that podcasts don't get everything right or that they're not

460
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:08.480
<v Speaker 3>subject matter experts. And that's where we're coming in obviously, right.

461
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:11.319
<v Speaker 3>But I don't want to listen to me talk necessarily.

462
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:13.440
<v Speaker 3>It's like when I come home.

463
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:15.640
<v Speaker 4>I don't watch cop shows.

464
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:22.279
<v Speaker 3>I don't really like anything too heady. My husband loves

465
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.720
<v Speaker 3>like quantum physics, Discovery Channel stuff. I just want to

466
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.920
<v Speaker 3>veg out when I listen to entertainment or watch entertainment.

467
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:31.480
<v Speaker 4>And see I'm the opposite.

468
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:34.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm a bit of the opposite though, because I will

469
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:37.920
<v Speaker 2>get obsessed with those shows and you know, if there's

470
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:40.599
<v Speaker 2>nothing on, and how is it possible that there's nothing

471
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:42.680
<v Speaker 2>on with Netflix? I mean, we have so many options,

472
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:48.599
<v Speaker 2>but Investigation Discovery has changed the landscape for me and

473
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 2>my husband will walk through and just shake his head

474
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:54.359
<v Speaker 2>and go, you deal with this all day? Why are

475
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:56.519
<v Speaker 2>you watching these shows? Because I just I mean I

476
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:58.279
<v Speaker 2>completely get immersed.

477
00:26:57.920 --> 00:26:58.480
<v Speaker 5>And it's hard.

478
00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:00.759
<v Speaker 4>I mean, there are people out there like.

479
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:02.920
<v Speaker 5>Him that don't give a shit about true crime.

480
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:05.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh yeah, and I don't understand how those people exist.

481
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:07.960
<v Speaker 5>It's amazing and it's fascinating.

482
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.039
<v Speaker 3>But I think that's one of our questions too, kind

483
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:14.200
<v Speaker 3>of coming to the table here is why are people

484
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:15.640
<v Speaker 3>so interested in this?

485
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.559
<v Speaker 4>Okay, well my theory.

486
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean there's a lot written on this and you know,

487
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:23.839
<v Speaker 2>and I come from now the podcast you know, you like, right,

488
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.599
<v Speaker 2>my favorite murder, you know my I think Criminal has

489
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:32.680
<v Speaker 2>an amazing podcast. I mean it is short, sweet, She's

490
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.400
<v Speaker 2>a wonderful producer, does great stories. Cereal changed the landscape

491
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:42.000
<v Speaker 2>that non say Ed's trial has was just riveting for

492
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:42.920
<v Speaker 2>a year and a half.

493
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:44.200
<v Speaker 5>I remember listening to that.

494
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:47.799
<v Speaker 3>You and I were on our way to this therapist mixer,

495
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:49.960
<v Speaker 3>and You're like, have you listened to Cereal yet?

496
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:50.559
<v Speaker 4>It's great?

497
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:54.599
<v Speaker 5>And I was kind of like no, And then finally.

498
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:58.319
<v Speaker 3>I did and just burned through that baby, and then

499
00:27:58.440 --> 00:27:59.920
<v Speaker 3>ended up listening.

500
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:04.519
<v Speaker 2>To Disclosed and Discloses another Rabba Chadrey does a wonderful job. Sure,

501
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:06.880
<v Speaker 2>And then I mean I also like and then s

502
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Town or shit town, right, Okay, shit town. Also my

503
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.920
<v Speaker 2>connection to that is I went to school with that

504
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:16.599
<v Speaker 2>guy at Birmingham Southern in Birmingham, Alabama. So that is

505
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.720
<v Speaker 2>a story that is a wonderful you know, psychological profile

506
00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:22.640
<v Speaker 2>and criminal aspects to it.

507
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:24.000
<v Speaker 4>But I like some weird stuff too.

508
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I like mysterious universe right with these two wonderful Aussies

509
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:31.000
<v Speaker 2>that talk about you know, sort of high what do

510
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:31.400
<v Speaker 2>they call it?

511
00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:33.680
<v Speaker 4>High? Strangeness is all over the place.

512
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:37.559
<v Speaker 3>Laura Lore is great, We love lare coming out on

513
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:38.519
<v Speaker 3>Amazon as a show.

514
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:39.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, good job.

515
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Aaron Mankee who sounds like a teenage William Shatner Captain Kirk,

516
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:49.200
<v Speaker 2>we love him and what else? Yeah, that's kind of

517
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:52.440
<v Speaker 2>that keeps me pretty busy those fourth podcasts.

518
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.920
<v Speaker 3>So what about television now, what are you watching anything

519
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.880
<v Speaker 3>in particular that's true criming or or something that you

520
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:02.119
<v Speaker 3>would recommend.

521
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Well from a fiction standpoint. This is we're going to

522
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:05.839
<v Speaker 2>have to do a show on this in the future.

523
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Is The Sinner. It is a short form like single

524
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.039
<v Speaker 2>series that may get I guess pulled into a separate

525
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.000
<v Speaker 2>series or it's a series two, but they're kind of

526
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.799
<v Speaker 2>a lot of television shows are following the American horror

527
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.559
<v Speaker 2>story where it's a different story every season but uses

528
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:29.240
<v Speaker 2>the same actors. I cannot recommend this show enough because

529
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:33.319
<v Speaker 2>it's got phenomenal twists. But we're going to use it

530
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:41.759
<v Speaker 2>to talk about a really fascinating psychological state called dissociation.

531
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Because Jessica Biel knocks it out of the park as

532
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>an actor in this work. I mean, everybody's great and

533
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Cammy Patten heads up to Cammy Patton, Oh my god,

534
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:53.920
<v Speaker 2>great casting director.

535
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.559
<v Speaker 4>She did an awesome job with this. But we're going

536
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:57.960
<v Speaker 4>to go into depth on.

537
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.680
<v Speaker 5>Topic because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about that.

538
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.079
<v Speaker 4>There's a lot it's so exceedingly rare.

539
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:06.200
<v Speaker 2>It's so rare, but when it's real. It's real, and

540
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:09.799
<v Speaker 2>it's always it's always due to trauma, you know. But yeah,

541
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:12.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot of things get it wrong. We'll talk about

542
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.960
<v Speaker 2>some of the shows that really entrance the country but

543
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.079
<v Speaker 2>really got it wrong, like Sybil. Sybil was something that

544
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:22.319
<v Speaker 2>I watched when I was young, and we all fell

545
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:24.640
<v Speaker 2>for it right and it was all disproved and it

546
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:28.680
<v Speaker 2>made great television, made a great book one Sally and Emmy,

547
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:31.039
<v Speaker 2>but not accurate.

548
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:35.000
<v Speaker 3>I feel like there's a lot being revisited, like we're

549
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:39.240
<v Speaker 3>at the twentieth year anniversary of a lot of things.

550
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:42.000
<v Speaker 3>So I think most recently what I've been interested in,

551
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.839
<v Speaker 3>there's been recaps and kind of updates like I'm a

552
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.359
<v Speaker 3>Natalie Holloway case.

553
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.519
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, and.

554
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:51.799
<v Speaker 5>The new show that's going to come out about the

555
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:52.720
<v Speaker 5>Menandos Brothers.

556
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:55.240
<v Speaker 3>I cannot whoa that's going to be a good one.

557
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:01.119
<v Speaker 3>So we will definitely cover that. But I think we're

558
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:05.599
<v Speaker 3>probably going to focus even in our first real episode,

559
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:11.880
<v Speaker 3>on the Lacy Peterson case, which also has some updates

560
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.559
<v Speaker 3>to it and some stuff in the works, and that

561
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:15.799
<v Speaker 3>they're revisiting in a TV show.

562
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:17.880
<v Speaker 4>And we really want to touch on that.

563
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean that Scott Peterson looking at his profile as

564
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:28.279
<v Speaker 2>an example of someone who truly led a double life

565
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:30.960
<v Speaker 2>out in the open, right, that's going to be my

566
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:34.000
<v Speaker 2>trademark phrase as he read a double life, but out

567
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.680
<v Speaker 2>in the open. It wasn't like he was the BTK

568
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:39.720
<v Speaker 2>killer who had a double life, had a double life

569
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:43.359
<v Speaker 2>that was you know, completely subsumed, subsumed in night and

570
00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:46.640
<v Speaker 2>serial killing. This guy, you know, he's a special kind

571
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:49.000
<v Speaker 2>of personality that we're going to go in depth.

572
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:53.960
<v Speaker 5>On the podcast I'm late to is the Missing Mara

573
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:57.599
<v Speaker 5>Murray podcast, which is going to be the next episode

574
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.200
<v Speaker 5>or next season of Disappeared.

575
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.279
<v Speaker 3>Which was a Natalie Holloway on Oxygen and they're going

576
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:08.680
<v Speaker 3>to do a Missing More Murray season and it is

577
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.359
<v Speaker 3>for you guys that haven't heard about it. I believe

578
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:14.960
<v Speaker 3>late nineties.

579
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:17.400
<v Speaker 4>College student in.

580
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:20.079
<v Speaker 5>New Hampshire just crashed your car and went missing. And

581
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:24.079
<v Speaker 5>there's a lot of interesting, strange twists along the way

582
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.200
<v Speaker 5>that made it get not so run of the mill

583
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:28.720
<v Speaker 5>and it's still unsolved.

584
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.759
<v Speaker 4>To this day. So wow, that sounds great. People really

585
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:31.799
<v Speaker 4>like cold cases.

586
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they really do, well, I do. I mean it's

587
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.079
<v Speaker 2>fascinating and it's scary. That's I think one of the

588
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:37.079
<v Speaker 2>things that's scary about is like when there's not a

589
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:41.319
<v Speaker 2>black and white, clear cut answer for something that you know,

590
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:42.880
<v Speaker 2>it makes it uncomfortable.

591
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:45.519
<v Speaker 5>A Fester's theory, and yeah, you're right, it makes people uncomfortable.

592
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:46.640
<v Speaker 4>I think that's one of the things.

593
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:49.319
<v Speaker 2>The hallmarks of what brings those of us that are

594
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.519
<v Speaker 2>into this is that we look at it and it's

595
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:53.559
<v Speaker 2>alien to us.

596
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:53.839
<v Speaker 4>You know.

597
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:55.880
<v Speaker 2>That's why I like the more weird end of the

598
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.720
<v Speaker 2>spectrum as well as you know, some of the more

599
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:02.799
<v Speaker 2>violent crimes. Is like really understanding that there are certainly

600
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:07.599
<v Speaker 2>people who are one off criminals, that are they commit

601
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.200
<v Speaker 2>crimes of passion, But then there are other people that

602
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:16.759
<v Speaker 2>really are psychologically they are wired differently, they are formed

603
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:21.920
<v Speaker 2>differently from an internal stance, and that can be alien.

604
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's more it's getting we're getting more used

605
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:26.119
<v Speaker 2>to it because we see this stuff all the time. Sure,

606
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.599
<v Speaker 2>but that's one of the things that's continually fascinating.

607
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.400
<v Speaker 3>The average person does not have exposure to that, and

608
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:33.319
<v Speaker 3>so it's so hard to wrap your mind around that

609
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:34.759
<v Speaker 3>this is a human being.

610
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:38.119
<v Speaker 4>Doing these that makes these choices right.

611
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.519
<v Speaker 3>And so we like to label them and categorize them

612
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:46.759
<v Speaker 3>as monsters or psychopaths or evil or whatever. But the

613
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.200
<v Speaker 3>real scary part is that it's just a real person.

614
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:56.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not a supernatural monster. It actually exists, right, So, folks,

615
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:59.400
<v Speaker 2>we've been a little bit over the map in our

616
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:02.200
<v Speaker 2>introduction today and thanks for bearing with us. We're really

617
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:05.400
<v Speaker 2>excited about bringing this project to you. This is it

618
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:11.119
<v Speaker 2>for our introduction podcast. We're really excited and looking forward

619
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:15.519
<v Speaker 2>to bringing you our absolute official first episode, which is

620
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:18.400
<v Speaker 2>going to be focusing on criminals who lead double lives.

621
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 6>So we're going to definitely explore Scott Peterson and I

622
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.559
<v Speaker 6>really would like to get into some of the new

623
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.199
<v Speaker 6>theories that are out there now and developing about the murder.

624
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:33.840
<v Speaker 5>But please let us know what you want to hear about.

625
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.440
<v Speaker 4>Definitely, we want your ideas, we want your input. So

626
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:38.000
<v Speaker 4>here's a.

627
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.360
<v Speaker 5>Few ways that you can contact us.

628
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:43.079
<v Speaker 3>Our email address is LA not So Confidential at gmail

629
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:48.719
<v Speaker 3>dot com. Our Twitter handle is La not So Pod.

630
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:54.239
<v Speaker 3>You can find us on Instagram at La Not So Podcast,

631
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:56.880
<v Speaker 3>and then on Facebook you can find us on the

632
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:00.480
<v Speaker 3>page La not So Confidential. So, thank you so much,

633
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:04.239
<v Speaker 3>and this has been La not So Confidential.

634
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:05.360
<v Speaker 4>Thanks a lot, folks,