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Speaker 1: Let's talk some college football on Cougar Sports with Ben Credit.
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Let's get out to the hotline woko in What are
my favorite guests? The one, the only Matt Brown of
Extra Points Extra Points mb dot com.
Speaker 2: Matt, how you live it?
Speaker 4: Hey man, I'm doing great.
Speaker 5: I feel like it's been a minute since I've been
on here, so I'm glad to spend a little bit
more extra time with you.
Speaker 3: It's been too long, and I'm on your website right
now and I'm perusing all the stories that you've broached
and I'm sitting there, I'm like, wait a second, here, is.
Speaker 2: That is that the word? I think it is?
Speaker 3: A ski jump penis cheating scandal.
Speaker 2: What in the world is going on in the world
of skiing and Olympic sports? What's going on here?
Speaker 5: So this is a serious professional story where I try
to advance what was going on for something that wasn't
a college sports story but has a college sports connection.
Speaker 6: So hear me out.
Speaker 5: It's okay, you guys haven't heard see I haven't heard
about this. This came out about about a week and.
Speaker 6: A half ago, as the Winter Olympics are starting.
Speaker 5: That the IOC and various like skied governance organizations were
concerned about people potentially cheating and ski and ski jumping
by injecting a kind of acid into their penises that
would temporarily enlarge them. And the reason for this, I know,
I know. The reason for this is it because like
having a bigger dog makes you better at sports, but
that it would increase the size of your uniform. So
when you retreat back to normal size, you have a
little bit of extra fabric which creates a sale effect.
I can help you ski jump a little bit further,
totally against the rules. So I read about this. My
first reaction was exactly like yours. I laughed, because you
know that that's funnier than anabogic steroids. But I then
called up multiple urologists in Chicago when one of them
wanted to go on the record, but more than one
talk to me. I talked to a professor of urology
at the Northwestern's Medical School, you know, a very high
profile for uh, you know school out here in the Midwest,
to get an idea of like, all right, is this
safe and can this can this kind of stunt be
used for other sports? And what was interesting, uh as
a couple of these guys told me, like, we don't
recommend you do this. Do not inject anything into your
genitalia outside of a the clinic clinical setting.
Speaker 6: Not a good idea.
Speaker 5: However, this won't make you better at any other sport, right,
won't make you run faster or throwball further. But one
thing that could and actually I think this would matter
even more where you live than where I live, is
that via can potential can potentially help because with with
being good at sports. Because the way that the that
the urologists laid this out, that is a medication that
is meant to improve blood flow throughout the body.
Speaker 6: We could face one obvious exactly.
Speaker 5: And there's an obvious, you know, common reason why you
would take viagara to change blood flow, but there is
actually some pure reviewed research to suggest that it can
help with other cardiovascular capacity at high elevation or places
where you wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 6: Get as much oxygen normally.
Speaker 5: And uh, it's not currently an NCAA controlled substance. Like you,
you will not get in trouble if you pop some
viagara before running across country, race and elevation.
Speaker 6: Is this a good idea?
Speaker 5: I'm not here to tell you one way or the
other I have I don't. I'm not a doctor, I am.
I am here simply to talk to doctors and say
this is one potential avenue that could be explored before advan.
Speaker 6: To give you a little bit of an extra extra edge.
Speaker 5: And that is you know, this is just the kind
of hard hitting story you can expect an extra points.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it, man, I was, like I said,
I was perusing that one obviously jumped out to me.
Where of advice higheraluronic acid? I read through this article? Yeah,
day and Jay, I'm an orthopedics and sports medicine. I
mean you inject hyalouronic acid into your knees all the time,
like it improves uh uh, you know, buoyancy and decompression
of the joint, a little bit more viscosity of like
the fluids and the joint to create less friction between
your bones, right, like hyloochis is a common thing. I
had no idea that there were skiers injecting this into
their male parts.
Speaker 4: That's crazy, you know I didn't either, and this This
is one of I think legitimately one of the best
parts about my job is that I can then call
some of.
Speaker 5: These experts explain this, because when I read high hierlogic acid,
my first thought is, like, that sounds like something that
a bond villain would use to distinegra. It's somebody right,
as like a naturally producing thing in your body.
Speaker 4: Even though I know that it is.
Speaker 6: I took seventh grade science too.
Speaker 5: But then the doctors are like, no, same thing that
you said, your body produces this naturally use for around
joint therapy. I also understand it's a common ingredient and
a lot of skincare to to rehydrate and and to
and to treat you know, some skin issues.
Speaker 6: All that's great.
Speaker 5: UH, do not recommend you put it anywhere else outside
of a laboratory setting from trained medical professionals.
Speaker 2: Let's pivot, let's talk. Uh.
Speaker 3: An athletic director is stating, maybe it's time we've heard
rumors of this, right, We've heard theories on what could
happen the P four disassociatinghimself from the rest of the
college athletics world, maybe it's time to split up D
one athletics. Drawing on his experience as an athletic director
and two America East schools, Brian Burrio Uh pitches of
for a very different NC douablea what's cook in here?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So, And it's funny because I've heard very I mean,
I've known Brian for a while, and I've heard variations
of this pitch from a lot of other low major leaders.
Speaker 4: And part of the part of the crux.
Speaker 5: Of the of the argument here isn't just yeah, what
what Ohio State and Texas and by U and Utah
and then anybody else are doing financially is so dramatically
different from what low majors are doing, And it's it
seems silly to pretend that that you should all operate
under the same rules.
Speaker 7: But something else that Brian mentions, I don't know if
I agree with it, but I have heard this from
other low major ads, is that there may be value
in splitting up Division One for other sport championships besides basketball.
Speaker 5: In the name of providing a better experience for the athletes,
And the thought goes like in a sport like women's volleyball,
for example, where there are lots of mid major programs
that are really good, right like I know that Weaber.
Speaker 4: Has been you know, very you.
Speaker 5: Know, competitive for a while, and then there's there's good
volleyball in the state of Utah and in Arizona and
California and lots.
Speaker 6: Of other places.
Speaker 5: But generally, if you win a low major league with
like outside the Big West, and you get into a
first round matchup as somebody from the SEC, you're gonna get.
Speaker 6: Stomped in thirty minutes. Those aren't competitive.
Speaker 5: A lot of the softball early College World Series matchups
are not competitive. They were twenty years ago, but they're
not now as more money has flown in. And the
argument that Brian's advancing here is wouldn't it be better
if you won the America East and something that wasn't
men's or women's basketball and then had a chance to
actually win three or four other postseason games against teams
that were more like you, rather than your reward being
to get you know, plastered into the sun by LSU.
Speaker 6: That's the values question.
Speaker 5: So I can't necessarily ask, you know, answer that.
Speaker 6: But he's not the first guy that's I've talked to
in this business that have said, yes, I agree.
Speaker 5: If you quote me on it, I'll deny it political suicide,
but I agree with him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Uh, it's intriguing, there's no doubt, And I
don't know what the next steps are. And uh, and
you know these eligibility cases. Uh, you know, what's the
next problem to solve? Is it bifurcating?
Speaker 2: Is it is it?
Speaker 3: Is it dissecting you know, the different levels of athletics
within the colleges within the NC douable A maybe? Is
it figuring out collective bargain agreement? Like, what's the next step.
What's the next problem if you were to prioritize, right,
if you're the all uh, if you're the commissioner of
college athletics and let's say college football, and to pick
in particular, what's the next problem to solve?
Speaker 5: Well, it's tough because so you know a lot of
the things you're you're and we've talked about this on
the year lots of times about collective bargaining or the transfer.
Speaker 6: Portal or salary caps right.
Speaker 5: Even if I was made commissioner with dictatorial powers throughout
higher education to pitch something which I don't want that power,
it wouldn't be legal unless you're unless you're making me
the dictator of like the federal government, which case I
definitely don't want that. The problem is what can you
make among the schools that won't get you sued and
then you lose when you find a friendly local judge
like we just saw here with Trinidad, although I actually
think the facts of the case were more friendly to
him than maybe some other ones. Where you've got the
Alabama basketball I just I tweeted about this a couple
of a couple of hours ago. We have a new
case in baseball with a gentleman playing in nevad Areno
who's like.
Speaker 6: Hey, I you know, I played a year in n
ai A. I shouldn't count. I should I should get
one more year.
Speaker 5: They're always going to have those things, and I don't
know if there's a good way or even not a
good way away at all to enforce any of this
absence something changing in Congress or something changing with with
with a you know, the Supreme Court or our federal
court decision I, and you can't none of those things.
I think you can really address the stuff about maybe
splitting up to Vision one, changing how you handle championship access,
changing how you how you structure the calendar, and some
of these things schools can do that. I don't know
if there's if there's meaningful momentum to shift any of
that right now. And it's hard for me to imagine
that happening without an outside force kind of making it happen.
That's the hard thing about college sports man, right. It's like, well,
you and I and Brian Santiago and Mark Harland and
almost everybody, we all know what the problems are, right,
A relatively educated person can look.
Speaker 6: At the spreadsheets. It's not rocket science.
Speaker 5: But to make a solution, it's going to require somebody
to go against their own institutional interests. And that's just
a difficult thing to push anybody to do unless you
get somebody, you know, above them to kind of impose
it on them. And we're just not at that level.
I don't know how to make people of people's.
Speaker 6: Hearts more egalitariat.
Speaker 5: You know, that's a that's a problem for a priest,
not album for a reporter.
Speaker 3: Matt Brown extra points here on your Utah ESPN radio network.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: This, uh, you know, the the the buzz right now
around you know, Trinidad chamblers, uh finding. Yeah, a judge
you mentioned it. I can't remember exactly what you said.
A friendly A friendly judge that may be friendly towards
oh miss right.
Speaker 5: And and there's only what two law schools in.
Speaker 6: The state of Mississippi.
Speaker 5: So if you sue somebody and it's and they're there,
the chances are that the judge you're going to get
is an all miss guy, and and that that will
often make it easier to get a little bit of
home cooking.
Speaker 6: I get it.
Speaker 3: So it does seem like if you lawyer up, you're
probably I mean, there's a good bet that you're gonna
get uh you know, some sort of uh favorable outcome,
right Like, it seems like it has the NCAA won
any of these cases recently where someone's lawyered up for
additional years of eligibility.
Speaker 5: Actually, the NCAA has won the majority of them. What
they'll tell you is like, if you look at all
the people who have sued to get additional eligibility over
like the last year, the nc DOUAA has a win rate.
I think, depending on how you want to call it,
you count the case between two thirds or three quarters
of the time. The problem, though, is that you kind
of have to win all of them if the goal
is to dissuade other people from suing. And sometimes there
are cases that where there are legitimately extenuating circumstances where
maybe a waiver should or shouldn't have been applied, and
that's part of why they're they're begging for for federal aid.
You can if you lawyer up right now. Obviously it
depends on where you're located.
Speaker 6: In the specific facts. But unless you get unless you get.
Speaker 5: Tom Mars or or you have you have the facts
on your side, you'll probably lose.
Speaker 6: But there's a enough.
Speaker 5: Of a chance for you to win that it's going
to continue to attract people to continue to file those cases,
you know, I think. I think it's the same thing
for a lot of accident law. Right, it doesn't matter
if you win every time. You just have to win
enough to where it makes financial sense to keep.
Speaker 6: Filing the suits. And I don't think that's going away
anytime soon.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Indeed, as far as the state of college athletics. So
you're feeling more optimistic more pessimistic about the state of
college athletics right now.
Speaker 5: There's I mean, there's a lot of things I still like,
right and we can look at this commercially, You and
I can take a step back and go, Hey, people
are still going to the games, people are still watching
the games on TV.
Speaker 6: The games are still really fun.
Speaker 5: And in our line of work, we get to know
some of the coaches and some of the players and
some of the other stories, and there's lots of exciting,
optimistic you know, thinks about all this.
Speaker 6: If I felt really pessimistic, I'd quit and go get
a real job.
Speaker 5: And I'm not at that point yet. But I think
there is something legitimately troubling that so many, you know,
kind of basic issues in this sport are coming down
to lawyering up. Whether that's how a long can you
play college sports, whether that's can you do you have
to honor a contract between one school or anything else?
Speaker 6: Or can you lawyer up and get out of that?
Speaker 5: Do you have to honor an agreement with the particular conference,
or can a conference arbitrarily keep you out of a
conference championship game?
Speaker 6: Like we're seeing locally, well, the solution there is to
lawyer up.
Speaker 5: And you know, guys, I write about this for a living,
and it gets frustrating and.
Speaker 6: Boring for me.
Speaker 5: I can't imagine how it must feel for people who
look at college sports as an excuse to not think
about lawyers, and long term, I don't think that's healthy.
I think there are some other, you know, components of
this industry, maybe independent of just lawsuits, that I really
do have.
Speaker 6: Some concerns about.
Speaker 5: Like this, math doesn't work and I don't know how long.
Maybe maybe you can keep this going for another fifty
years because math doesn't work anywhere, or maybe it comes
crumbling sooner than that. But that but you know, in August,
they're still going to play football games and we're still
going to watch them, even if a lot of this
other stuff has some structs all rot to it, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's always intriguing to see what the next
steps are amongst the power brokers in college athletics. It's, uh,
it's not a great day to be a cougar, you know,
in a couple of different ways. But b yu in
controversy again, Matt, and it's it's not a good place
to be. Obviously, there's been a number of different honor
code violations and legal issues as well over the last year,
year and a half three in particular. So look, BYU
sets a standard, it's its own standard that it's set.
You know, student athletes don't always meet that standard from
an honor code standpoint.
Speaker 2: Where it gets.
Speaker 3: Really icky though, it is like when when legal issue
us are constantly coming up, Well, what do you make
of this? Give me your perspective on what's happening right now?
Is this is this a big issue that uh, you know,
b YU needs to maybe be a little bit more
maybe aggressive in their education on you know, in operation
now we've got babysit better.
Speaker 2: What's going on here?
Speaker 5: Yeah, this this is a tough question, and I think
I want to preface it with with the acknowledgment that
I'm in Chicago and that there's a lot of interpersonal
uh you know, facts to play with that with individuals
or what people knew and what they didn't know that
I'm not privy to, and so I don't want to
make assumptions.
Speaker 6: I don't I don't want to, I don't want I
don't want to make sweeping generalizations.
Speaker 5: The the the thing that we all kind of have
to make peace with is that if you're gonna have.
Speaker 6: An athletic department, and you want to have an athletic.
Speaker 5: Department that competes at the highest level and all the
rewards that come with that, you have to recognize that
you're going to be dealing with twenty two year olds,
twenty one year olds, twenty year olds in the United
States of America and the year of our lower twenty
twenty six, and they're going to make nucle head decisions,
and they're going to make bad decisions, whether they are
returned missionaries who are married in the temple and know
and and and you know, watch Johnny Lingo a thousand times,
or whether there are people that don't know anything about
the LDS faith or religion at all. Right, Like, I
don't I don't think. I don't think you're gonna you're
gonna prevent yourself from having bad headlines.
Speaker 2: Sure, if you make.
Speaker 5: An athletic department of just you know, assistant to the president,
return missionaries kind of guys, you know.
Speaker 4: Where I think.
Speaker 5: You have problems beyond the fact, Like, yeah, man, if
you've got a rapist on your football team. Youve got
to get that dude off the football team, like or
if you have somebody that's committed to felony, that guy
should not be on your campus. I don't think anybody
in good faith can say you can have a university
of thirty thousand people and not admit somebody who might
later make a bad choice. Sure, Like that's that, that's
part of the gig. The thing that that everyone has
to figure out is what are we doing to prevent
it from happening? And uh, what are we doing to
make sure that we're compliant with laws and our alleged
higher higher calling, Like I don't mind admitting this, and
you know, hopefully this doesn't mean I never get a
credential at DYU again, But like I had, I was.
Speaker 8: I was in my feelings a little bit yesterday when
I saw Gilbert get Get called be an apostle, and
I'm like, man, I I'm struggling with this a little
bit because I know some things that you've said about
athletics or that you've done behind the scenes that I
don't fuel line up necessarily with an apostolic call.
Speaker 6: If you're gonna, if you're gonna, if you're gonna line
up to that.
Speaker 5: Like it's one thing for a twenty year old to
make a mistake, it's another thing for somebody who should
definitely know better.
Speaker 6: And I think a challenge.
Speaker 5: For everybody, whether you're DYU or Ohio State or a
secular school or anyone, isn't just our the twenty year
olds making the right choice, since it is everybody above
them who should know better making the right choices to
to you know, get those people out of the paint
or or to hold people accountable. And that that's a
tough question, right, and and ultimately that that that's one
that people in Salt Lake are gonna have to grapple with,
or are people that are constituents of this institution. I
don't I don't think that's like department's broken, but like
it's it's if you're gonna if you're gonna say one thing,
by God, you you better make sure everybody is meeting
that standard as best as you can.
Speaker 2: You know, I'd agree with that.
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's a fair like b
a use the it sets the standard, right, sets the
bar and and and and when you set a bar high, uh,
those that when you don't. When you don't meet that standard,
the people that don't really like you setting that standard
or you know, they're gonna let you know about it,
and they're gonna hold you accountable to that that standard
that you set for yourself, especially if you know we
we put ourselves. You know, I've always discussed I don't
like Ramiumpton Mormon culture. It's not my favorite portion of
uh of the faith that I'm a part of by
any means.
Speaker 2: And sometimes we can go down that path. So I
don't I.
Speaker 3: Don't think any UH organization. I don't think any institution,
I don't think any religion.
Speaker 2: I don't think any any.
Speaker 3: Pastor, preacher, apostle, prophet is infallible, right, and I will
never ever expect infallibility. There will be follies and uh,
look if David could fall and murder and all in
the name of Bathsheba, all of us can fall uh
in some way, shape or form in life. And so
uh but you just hope, Hey, you gotta we gotta
be better man, and uh, there you are.
Speaker 2: You're gonna be.
Speaker 3: Judged according to uh the bar the standards that you set.
Speaker 2: And that's just the way that it is.
Speaker 3: And and so hopefully the way you can, uh, you know,
do a better job of of Yeah. Look I'm the
type that and and you know me pretty well. I'm like,
you know me pretty well.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: I call them red group Red group guys, right, there's
red group people.
Speaker 2: Red group guys.
Speaker 3: They need mentors, they just need more babysitters, they just
do why, they need guardrails, and they need consistency of parameters.
And you have to be able to recognize those and
who knows right? You know, sometimes you don't know that
they're a red group person, that they're gonna make bad decisions,
But you want to do everything that you can.
Speaker 2: And I understand why you're in your feels.
Speaker 3: I think there's there's plenty of people that harold the
calling that has been handed down for Clark Gilbert, and
there are those that disagree with that.
Speaker 2: And uh, you know, I.
Speaker 3: Don't know if you're ever gonna get everyone in line
that's like, we love this person. You're not even the
Savior himself. Jesus Christ was liked amongst his people.
Speaker 4: You know, unforestionably.
Speaker 5: And you know what, if anyone's listening to this, I
think you would be completely share to think why do
I care what this guy says. This dude's a fiscampalion.
He isn't get, he isn't he isn't gonna say. And
you know what, You're right, my friend, I don't I
don't get.
Speaker 6: I don't get to say.
Speaker 5: I could be totally wrong like this. It's just that
I know this guy a little bit differently than I
know some random.
Speaker 6: Bishop in France, right.
Speaker 5: Sure, And I think I think I would.
Speaker 6: I would kind of bring.
Speaker 5: This all together because I've been thinking about what you're
this dynamic a lot over.
Speaker 6: The past couple of days.
Speaker 5: Because it's not not a secret people listening to me.
Speaker 6: I've been on the show a lot. I'm from Columbus
and I went.
Speaker 5: To Ohio State, and I still like Ohio State. And
Ohio State is obviously a secular institution, but it is
supposed to stand for some level of public righteousness. It
is a moral land grant university meant to educate the
sons and daughters of toil, and it is supposed to
be for ethical.
Speaker 6: Good government everything.
Speaker 5: And guys, if you go to that campus right now,
we're all talking about this at the moment. There's like
six buildings named after Jeffrey Epstein's best friend, including like this,
this isn't a joke, right, like there's there's all. This
is a place that's done a lot.
Speaker 6: Of terrible things.
Speaker 4: And I point this out.
Speaker 5: Because I don't want people to think, like, ah, you know,
here's you know, mascot an act to grind against against you.
Speaker 6: Why, like I it's.
Speaker 5: This is this is a challenge among American institutions at
every level and especially in higher ed And I don't
know if look man if if if there's a university
in an athletic department ready to be translated right now,
it's news to me, email me that school so I
can stand at their feet, uh and learn from them.
All guys killdren got problems right now. The issue is
what are you going to do to try and six the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about it.
Speaker 3: Well, there's much good and I see a lot of
good in what you do, Matt, And love and appreciate you,
Love having you on the show. Love good you know,
conversing about all of these topics, from the most mundane
to some that are moral and ethical and spiritual. Always
appreciate our time together.
Speaker 2: I'm fine.
Speaker 3: Everyone follow Matt on X for the latest and greatest
in collegiate athletics. Check out Subscribe, I'm telling you subscribe
to Extra Points MB dot com always something to learn,
They're always something to be enriched by. And I love
our ideation sessions, Matt. I love when we talk about
all these things. I always feel like I learned something
from your brother.
Speaker 4: I do too, Bet. I don't tell you this enough.
Speaker 1: Love.
Speaker 5: I love you man, You're you, you have a, you
have a you have a great heart. I always come
away from the stuff feeling killing better here too, and
for everyone else, you know, this is the U.
Speaker 6: There aren't a whole lot of outlets out there that will.
Speaker 5: Promise to give you legitimate legal analysis, try to break
realignment news yep, and also talk to a professor of
dongs about about penile injections and viagra and sports. But,
my friends, that is the promise I'll make to you.
Speaker 6: I will do all of those things in the name
of serious professional journalism.
Speaker 2: Love it, Appreciate you, Matt. Nobody does it better. Always
a pleasure, my brother.
Speaker 6: Let me know if you need to do a good
have a good weekend.
Speaker 2: Men,