Speaker 1: Get ready for.
Speaker 2: December fourth, twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that thing
Speaker 2: we call a calendar. This is the Ocell Effective course.
Speaker 2: And you know that because you found it. You don't
Speaker 2: find my show unless you really want to. And it
Speaker 2: is Wednesday, and I'm more than happy to have the
Speaker 2: return of a guest that I haven't had on often enough. Now,
Speaker 2: could we go into the news with this guest? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Could we go into the news that you're not hearing
Speaker 2: with this guest. Surely I could talk to him about this,
Speaker 2: you know, this story that's captivating part of the corporate
Speaker 2: media at the moment regarding the healthcare guy, the guy
Speaker 2: from US Healthcare who was killed by somebody. They're trying
Speaker 2: to hunt him down in New York. It's craziness, yes,
Speaker 2: But then again, I could also discuss the healthcare system
Speaker 2: and what's going on and exactly where he might see things.
Speaker 2: An intelligent guy, a guy who might be connected to
Speaker 2: a couple of colleges, actually interesting political history from the
Speaker 2: state of New Jersey. At one point, no longer living
Speaker 2: there because who can afford to live there anymore? That's
Speaker 2: why I'm not there. But anyway, you know, why is
Speaker 2: he so interesting. Well, he was the first third party
Speaker 2: candidate to get matching funds and get himself on the
Speaker 2: debate stages with guess what the two corporate parties and
Speaker 2: actually have to be a thorn in their side in
Speaker 2: the governor's.
Speaker 3: Race in New Jersey. Not an easy task because.
Speaker 2: I don't remember who else ever did it, and libertarian
Speaker 2: by the way, And also he's got a sub stack
Speaker 2: and many other things that I'd love for him to
Speaker 2: tell you about.
Speaker 3: Murray Sabran, how are you doing, sir?
Speaker 2: First of all, and secondly, I want to find out
Speaker 2: what else you're up to besides the substack, which is
Speaker 2: constantly running, and you guys ought to go and search
Speaker 2: it out, and I'll give you a link in the
Speaker 2: show notes so you can go and hook up and
Speaker 2: subscribe to substack.
Speaker 3: But how are you doing tonight, sir?
Speaker 4: I'm doing great, Chuck. It's great to be with you again.
Speaker 5: It's been quite a while since we've chatted about the
Speaker 5: major issues of the day, and there's a lot to
Speaker 5: uncover here because we just had an election. The Republicans
Speaker 5: to control over of the Senate, barely have control over
Speaker 5: the House, and it's going to be interesting to see
Speaker 5: what Trump will be doing once he raises his right
Speaker 5: hand and gets sworn in as the forty seventh president
Speaker 5: in January twentieth.
Speaker 3: Well, see, and there's the fun part. Right.
Speaker 2: It's been a month, but I'm telling you, I'm observing
Speaker 2: what's happening regarding the let's say, the libertarian contingent in
Speaker 2: the country right where they kind of shifted over a
Speaker 2: lot of them just went well, we like the Republican
Speaker 2: candidate this time.
Speaker 3: I mean so much so.
Speaker 2: The guess what, Bobby Kennedy, who is now going to
Speaker 2: work with the Trump administration, and Donald Trump were both
Speaker 2: invited to the Libertarian convention even when the candidate was
Speaker 2: being selected for the Libertarian party. That was all happening,
Speaker 2: And nowadays it looks to me like you could almost
Speaker 2: fold most libertarians. I run into into the MAGA set
Speaker 2: with absolutely no skepticism whatsoever.
Speaker 3: Do you notice that too, I wonder, Well, here's.
Speaker 5: My take on this whole political situation. Since Iran for
Speaker 5: governor in nineteen ninety seven and subsequently rant for the
Speaker 5: US Senate as a Republican a few years later, When
Speaker 5: people ask me do you support such and such a candidate?
Speaker 5: I said, you're asking me the wrong question. You should
Speaker 5: be asking me what policies of the candidate do you support?
Speaker 4: Which ones he oppose?
Speaker 5: And I do that with Trump because there are certain
Speaker 5: things I support that he wants to do, there are
Speaker 5: certain things I really dislike that he wants to do,
Speaker 5: and then I do my substack to point out the
Speaker 5: strengths and weaknesses of his agenda. And that's what I
Speaker 5: think a good analyst does is that you don't say
Speaker 5: you you don't give anyone a blanket a blank check.
Speaker 5: In politics, you have to really discern what the issues
Speaker 5: are and are they consistent with the oath of office,
Speaker 5: which is to defend the Constitution. And for my take, Chuck,
Speaker 5: most of what the federal government does is not authorized
Speaker 5: by Article one, Section eight.
Speaker 2: See And that's why I love talking to guys like
Speaker 2: you and Jacob Hornberger who's from the Future for Freedom
Speaker 2: Foundation but also he was actually a candidate briefly Libertarian
Speaker 2: Party this year, also presented at Lancer Jacob. But you know,
Speaker 2: you guys actually do the analysis. It's not just acquiescence
Speaker 2: immediately like almost like what doesn't matter, I'll just check
Speaker 2: all the boxes down the line. You actually think about
Speaker 2: this individually and go over yes, indeed, okay, this is
Speaker 2: where there's a positive, this is where there's a negative.
Speaker 2: And it's not even personal, which I find funny because
Speaker 2: it seems like American politics is more about the personality anymore, yep,
Speaker 2: and the personal rights. It is literally like a popularity contest,
Speaker 2: even more than it was in those nineties there where
Speaker 2: ninety seven is the year, like you said that you
Speaker 2: got on the you know, on the line there in
Speaker 2: Jersey and we're the legitimate third party candidate and wow,
Speaker 2: how things have changed since then?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Well, the think the point I've been making to people
Speaker 5: since I ran as a third party candidate and was.
Speaker 4: The first third party candidate to get.
Speaker 5: Matching funds and be under debate state with the governor
Speaker 5: Whitman and state senator and mayor Jim McGreevey, who was
Speaker 5: elected a governor four years later. The point I keep
Speaker 5: on making to people is you don't have to win
Speaker 5: as a third party candidate to affect change. I wrote
Speaker 5: an article many many decades ago in about the nineteen
Speaker 5: twelve Socialist Party platform, and virtually all of it has
Speaker 5: been enacted, and we've never had a Socialist Party president
Speaker 5: or a Socialist Party Congress. And so what happens is
Speaker 5: third party's float ideas, they get debated, they lay dormant
Speaker 5: for a while, and then the Democrats or Republicans pick
Speaker 5: up those ideas.
Speaker 4: Usually the Democrats pick up.
Speaker 5: The crazy ideas of the left wing parties in the
Speaker 5: United States.
Speaker 4: And so to give you an example of what.
Speaker 5: I accomplished, even though I had a very short campaign,
Speaker 5: it was only six weeks since we were given the
Speaker 5: okay to get the matching funds.
Speaker 4: Until the election, I campaigned on getting rid of the
Speaker 4: fifty five speed limit.
Speaker 5: Believed we still had a New jerseyineteen ninety seven, and
Speaker 5: I said, we need to have a sixty five speed
Speaker 5: limit because the term New Jersey Turnpike and the Garden
Speaker 5: State Parkway Route eighty which is an interstate, our ninety
Speaker 5: five are all made to be driven at sixty five
Speaker 5: miles an hour. And Whitman emmigrieb who were posed to
Speaker 5: it because their focus group said Senior City this is
Speaker 5: wanted to keep the fifty five speed limit, and so
Speaker 5: they said, no, we got to keep the fifty five
Speaker 5: speed limit. Well after the election, six months later, Whitman
Speaker 5: increased the speed limit to sixty five because I.
Speaker 4: Think people said it's sabering.
Speaker 5: Made sense about having a sixty five speed limit, That's
Speaker 5: one example.
Speaker 3: It actually made a practical sense. I witnessed this.
Speaker 2: So I want to just comment really fast, is that
Speaker 2: it truly to drive at that lower speed on the Parkway,
Speaker 2: especially where I always lived off of the Parkway, was
Speaker 2: unsafe considering what we had going on there and the turnpike.
Speaker 2: For the interstate travelers that the trucks and stuff, they
Speaker 2: if they were trying to travel below that speed, it
Speaker 2: was actually causing problems. I know that sounds counterintuitive to
Speaker 2: some people, but it really was.
Speaker 3: I think that it improved.
Speaker 2: Things when the speed limit was raised immediately because it
Speaker 2: just was safer. It allowed traffic to flow in a
Speaker 2: more sensible way. Now that might have been according to
Speaker 2: the design, or it might have been according to the
Speaker 2: way society had moved differently by then. You know, in
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies, maybe the fifty five speed limit made sense,
Speaker 2: but by the time he got to the nineties, it
Speaker 2: did not, you know. So and senior citizens, look, they're
Speaker 2: a strong, you know, a strong voice, especially in Jersey.
Speaker 2: There there was anyway I'm not sure about today, but
Speaker 2: there was a high senior population and they were always
Speaker 2: politically active in Jersey, for sure. I've heard in other
Speaker 2: states as well. Not so sure about Georgia where I'm
Speaker 2: sitting now. It's a very different landscape here, but I
Speaker 2: mean where they are very, very strong, and they raise
Speaker 2: up their voices. They get heard, for sure, but they're
Speaker 2: not always right. Regardless of what it is they want done,
Speaker 2: it may not be best for everyone, you know, and
Speaker 2: politicians sometimes they tend to pander to one group or another.
Speaker 2: And we've got a problem here as opposed to them
Speaker 2: doing what's best for the majority of the people or
Speaker 2: for the general situation. Sometimes they're just pandering to the
Speaker 2: groups that they feel they need to get elected. And
Speaker 2: there is the biggest problem. But you were right, you
Speaker 2: were dead on right then. And of course they later
Speaker 2: on get forced into it, probably from some other study,
Speaker 2: some other group of things. And of course once the
Speaker 2: votes are cast, well, you don't really got to keep
Speaker 2: your promises, do you. So you know, here we go,
Speaker 2: and I say all these things to incite you just
Speaker 2: a touch, but go ahead and continue with your train
Speaker 2: of thought that you are on.
Speaker 5: Well, there are other issues that I campaigned on that
Speaker 5: resonate to some degree and eventually got inactive. One of
Speaker 5: the big issues in nineteen ninety seven was automobile insurance,
Speaker 5: which we had very high rates in the Jersey maybe
Speaker 5: the highest rates in the country, and we had a
Speaker 5: very highly regulated insurance automobile insurance industry, And I said, listen,
Speaker 5: Jimmy Carter, when he was president in the late six seventies,
Speaker 5: derelated a lot of the major industries in the country
Speaker 5: and that helped set off the boom of the nineteen
Speaker 5: eighties and nineties as we got more competition and lower
Speaker 5: prices in various industries. So I said, let's deregulate automobile
Speaker 5: insurance and we'll have major caloriers come into the state
Speaker 5: who had left the state because of the onerous regulations.
Speaker 5: And Whitman a Republicans, supposedly the party stood for limited
Speaker 5: government and free enterprise.
Speaker 4: She couldn't do it. Four years later, when Jim McGreevey.
Speaker 5: Was elected a Democrat, he derelated the automobile insurance industry.
Speaker 4: Geico came in and some other companies came in, and
Speaker 4: auto rates came down. And I don't think there's been
Speaker 4: a problem ever since.
Speaker 5: Another example of how you explain things as a common
Speaker 5: sense alternative to the.
Speaker 4: Regulatory mechanisms that were in place.
Speaker 5: Another issue, which sounds really quaint today is that the
Speaker 5: issue of medical marijuana was on the table and I
Speaker 5: of course was in favor of it as a libertarian,
Speaker 5: that people should be able to use whatever substance they
Speaker 5: and their doctor think his best course of treatment. And
Speaker 5: of course the Republican and the Democrats were opposed to it.
Speaker 5: And so today I don't think any state doesn't have
Speaker 5: medical marijuana. So in fact, many states have the regulated
Speaker 5: marijuana use altogether. So you don't have to be a
Speaker 5: political French candidate to make a point that eventually becomes
Speaker 5: a sort of a consensus.
Speaker 4: View in the country.
Speaker 5: In addition, here's a more personal aspect of the campaign.
Speaker 5: One day I came home from teaching and there was
Speaker 5: a note in my male box with the mail from
Speaker 5: a sergeant in town saying you violated sex and so
Speaker 5: section of the ordinance town oridents that you cannot have
Speaker 5: a political son in your own property. Well, I called
Speaker 5: up the campaign attorney. He went to the Superior court
Speaker 5: and the judge threw it out as a gross violation
Speaker 5: of our.
Speaker 4: First Amendment rights.
Speaker 5: And so that's part of case law in New Jersey
Speaker 5: that you're allowed to have a political sign on your
Speaker 5: own law and your own private property. So it struck
Speaker 5: a blow for free speech and private property rights.
Speaker 2: And that is interesting because I mean people today, certainly,
Speaker 2: if you were born after say the year two thousand,
Speaker 2: you can't even imagine a landscape anywhere that doesn't contain
Speaker 2: these signs, right, yeah, But Jersey used to have some
Speaker 2: tough regulations that were brought in and I don't know
Speaker 2: what the point of some of them were, but things
Speaker 2: like that are weird. I mean, think about that, you
Speaker 2: own a piece of property, well, you know, so long
Speaker 2: as you're not causing a hazard for other people, right, right,
Speaker 2: you should be to do with what you choose, it
Speaker 2: seems to me, but not everybody sees it that way,
Speaker 2: right for the good of the community, et cetera. And
Speaker 2: that is another aspect of this. So all right, and
Speaker 2: that's the thing, common sense stuff. This is what you
Speaker 2: talk about, and this is what you write about all
Speaker 2: the time, and not just getting swept up into the
Speaker 2: you know, the cheerleading kind of stand where you just
Speaker 2: you know, absolutely accept everything coming from well, you know,
Speaker 2: this is just the lesser of two evils. Let's just
Speaker 2: go with that. I think that's gotten to us in
Speaker 2: a lot. It gotten us into a lot of trouble
Speaker 2: in this country in general, accepting leaders and their positions
Speaker 2: and some of their actions, some of.
Speaker 3: The things they've been acted as well, this is the
Speaker 3: lesser of two evils.
Speaker 2: You know, can't we go for a higher standard than that,
Speaker 2: don't you want to?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Well? Yeah, Well, here's the thing with the Democrats.
Speaker 5: At one time, they were peace pro civil liberties, a
Speaker 5: common sense approach to governing. Of course, they believed in
Speaker 5: a big welfare state, but even that, they were gung
Speaker 5: ho in terms of supporting every single position in terms
Speaker 5: of spending money. Now the Democrats have become the biggest
Speaker 5: proponents of the welfare warfare state, and a lot of
Speaker 5: Republicans are in that camp also.
Speaker 4: And so that's why I'm writing this.
Speaker 5: Article for a book, which would be a collection of
Speaker 5: essays on taxation. And my approach is that we need
Speaker 5: a constitutional budget, federal budget. We haven't had it in
Speaker 5: my lifetime since I came to this country in nineteen
Speaker 5: forty nine. As a toddler, and I've seen the country
Speaker 5: as I became aware of the laws of the United States,
Speaker 5: that we've gone far away from Article one, Section eight,
Speaker 5: which outlines very clearly what are the authorized activities of
Speaker 5: the federal government.
Speaker 4: And you look at the federal budget could article on
Speaker 4: section eight.
Speaker 5: It is a big disconnect because most of the government spending.
Speaker 4: On welfare, on military, on foreign aid are just not authorized.
Speaker 5: And the people who want an expansive government hang their
Speaker 5: hat on the general welfare clause. But as James Madison wrote,
Speaker 5: the father of the Constitution is that the federal government's
Speaker 5: responsibilities are few and defined, which is Article on, section eight,
Speaker 5: while the states have indefinite responsibilities based upon their own constitutions.
Speaker 5: So that's the thesis of a theme of my article.
Speaker 5: And I am about two thirds done, and I should
Speaker 5: have it done next week and the book should be
Speaker 5: published next year. And what I'm going to talk about
Speaker 5: is how we can get rid of the income tax,
Speaker 5: even though the federal government is authorized to have an
Speaker 5: income tax because they mended the Constitution in nineteen thirteen.
Speaker 5: We got the sixteenth a mend which gave the federal
Speaker 5: government the authority to have.
Speaker 4: An income tax.
Speaker 5: Just as the prohibitionists realized they couldn't prohibit alcohol, they
Speaker 5: had to amend the constitution. That's how we got the
Speaker 5: eighteenth Amendment. And so the Constitution has been amended in
Speaker 5: order for people who have an agenda that they realized
Speaker 5: they couldn't pass by law. They had to amend the
Speaker 5: constitution because the Constitution had very strict limits on the government.
Speaker 5: But people like beginning with Alexander Hamilton and going all
Speaker 5: the way through other presidents till today, they think the
Speaker 5: federal government can do literally anything.
Speaker 4: In fact, in my piece I wrote, I write, can
Speaker 4: the federal government tax us to one hundred percent? Because
Speaker 4: if you believe the general welfare crowd, why shouldn't the
Speaker 4: government tax us one hundred percent if it's quote for
Speaker 4: the general welfare? Or why shouldn't the government spend all
Speaker 4: our money.
Speaker 5: And collectivize the economy or nationalize the economy in the
Speaker 5: name of the general welfare? The reductial at absurdum of
Speaker 5: the general welfare clause. People who think that the Constitution
Speaker 5: gives the government an open ended right to tax us
Speaker 5: to one hundred percent, there'd be no constitutional objection to that,
Speaker 5: because they can claim that it's needed for a national
Speaker 5: emergency or war or a better economic condition, so they
Speaker 5: could rationalize anything. And that's why we need to focus
Speaker 5: on the Constitution as binding on the federal government, and
Speaker 5: therefore the government should only do what's authorized. And so
Speaker 5: what I'm hoping to do in this article is to
Speaker 5: quote raise people's consciousness about what the Constitution is all about.
Speaker 5: Since when I became a US citizen in nineteen fifty nine,
Speaker 5: I raised my right hand in the Federal Courthouse and
Speaker 5: swore to defend the Constitution. So I think I've done
Speaker 5: my part for the last sixty five years to.
Speaker 4: Defend the Constitution.
Speaker 5: From the statist who want to just expand the federal government.
Speaker 5: And that's why we have a thirty six trillion dollar
Speaker 5: national debt, a seven trillion dollar national budget with a two.
Speaker 4: Trillion dollar.
Speaker 5: A trillion dollar deficit, and it's not going to get better,
Speaker 5: I don't think unless Trump and the Musk and the
Speaker 5: Veck come up with solid spending cuts in order to
Speaker 5: downsize the government and remove these programs, either entirely by
Speaker 5: abolishing them or saying the states, if you want to
Speaker 5: do this, if you want to tax your own people,
Speaker 5: to do subsidies to the arts, subsidies to green energy,
Speaker 5: go ahead and do it, because we at the federal
Speaker 5: level have no authority to do all these things. So
Speaker 5: that's I think the essence of what the debate should
Speaker 5: be in this country is what are the responsibilities of
Speaker 5: the federal government and how much money should we should
Speaker 5: spend on that? And the interesting thing is when I
Speaker 5: do the research, when I've been doing the research for
Speaker 5: this article, when the Constitution was first implemented, or I
Speaker 5: should say, when the federal government got on the way
Speaker 5: in seventeen eighty nine, there were only four cabinet departments,
Speaker 5: the State Department, the Treasury Department, of the War Department,
Speaker 5: which became the Defense Department in nineteen forty seven, and
Speaker 5: the Post Office.
Speaker 4: And the Attorney General was part of the cabinet.
Speaker 5: But there was no Department of Justice, which came around
Speaker 5: in the nineteenth century. So if the federal gun could
Speaker 5: function with only four departments at the beginning of our
Speaker 5: life of the republic, then why do we need Agriculture, Commerce,
Speaker 5: Housing and Urban Development HHS? Because the federal government has
Speaker 5: gotten to areas that the free market or the nonprofit
Speaker 5: sector should be dealing with and I've been writing about
Speaker 5: this for decades, that we need to get back to
Speaker 5: a constitutional republic, and that means people understanding what Art one,
Speaker 5: Section eight is all about. In in addition to Tenth Amendment,
Speaker 5: and you have the Tenth Amendment Center.
Speaker 4: They did great work.
Speaker 5: People just read that, they will realize that the federal
Speaker 5: government really has we have an unconstitutional federal government totally
Speaker 5: spending and therefore we need to reassess and do a reset.
Speaker 4: To you use a word from the world. They could
Speaker 4: have a form we need to.
Speaker 5: Reset the federal government, and that I think is doable
Speaker 5: as if people understand the nature of government and what
Speaker 5: it means to have a free society, a limit government,
Speaker 5: and a free enterprise economy.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 2: Now consolidation is going to become an issue here too,
Speaker 2: because it's going to require some to you know, in
Speaker 2: order to make things more efficient. Homeland security, a lot
Speaker 2: of people would argue, has become far too expansive, far
Speaker 2: too you know, diversified. You have seventeen different agencies, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: which are you know, allegedly.
Speaker 3: Under that umbrella.
Speaker 2: But no one would argue that homeland security is not
Speaker 2: an issue for the federal government to have to well
Speaker 2: participate in, and yet I think it's gotten way out
Speaker 2: of control. There's probably a lot of redundancy and reduction
Speaker 2: that could be done there. I don't know how I
Speaker 2: feel about Rami Swami and Musk though going in there
Speaker 2: and the priorities that they're going to set. I'm not
Speaker 2: certain about that. These guys are the people to figure
Speaker 2: out how to do that, you know, taking a look
Speaker 2: at their own personal actions, I don't really have a
Speaker 2: good indicator in my mind as to where it is
Speaker 2: they're going to take this.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4: Well, I think the.
Speaker 5: Short answer is, well, maybe the long answer is the
Speaker 5: foremost responsibility of the federal government is to protect the
Speaker 5: nation from attack and to protect the borders so we
Speaker 5: know exactly who's coming into the and that is the
Speaker 5: foremost responsibility. And if you can't do that, then anything
Speaker 5: else that you do is really disingenuous because protecting the
Speaker 5: people from attack.
Speaker 4: Mayors and police have that responsibility. At a local level.
Speaker 5: At the state level, you have state police and the
Speaker 5: governor of states to make sure that the.
Speaker 4: People throughout the state are protected.
Speaker 5: So again, police protection, national defense, and I underline the
Speaker 5: word defense, which doesn't mean protecting the borders of other
Speaker 5: countries is the primary responsibility of the federal government. So
Speaker 5: having said that, you could have homeland security under the
Speaker 5: Defense Department and just make sure that the border is secure,
Speaker 5: I think that's just again a common sense notion that
Speaker 5: we want to make sure that people come into the country.
Speaker 5: Like my family came to the country in August nineteen
Speaker 5: forty nine. My father was fully vetted in West Germany
Speaker 5: where we were living at the time. They were refugees
Speaker 5: from Poland in nineteen forty six when they came to
Speaker 5: a West Germany from Poland, and he was vetted to
Speaker 5: made sure we didn't have any illnesses, to made sure
Speaker 5: that he was not a quarter subversive, but because he
Speaker 5: was coming from Poland, which had been taken over by
Speaker 5: the Communists, so if they wanted to make sure he
Speaker 5: wasn't affiliated with any communist organization. And so he told
Speaker 5: me he was thoroughly vetted before we came here, and
Speaker 5: we got papers from his great aunt and first cousin
Speaker 5: who came to America.
Speaker 4: His first cousin.
Speaker 5: Before us, and his great aunt, I guess at the
Speaker 5: turn of the century, who raised his mother by the way,
Speaker 5: in America, which is another fascinating story. So again there's
Speaker 5: ways that people can come to America seamlessly. Go to
Speaker 5: the American consulate in your home country, apply for travel
Speaker 5: to the United States, make sure you have a sponsor
Speaker 5: like we did, that would provide you with resources so
Speaker 5: you can come here, or a nonprofit provide you with
Speaker 5: the resources so you don't become a burden on the
Speaker 5: American people. And that's the way I think people have
Speaker 5: come to America for a long long time. And when
Speaker 5: the country was young in the nineteenth century, I don't
Speaker 5: think you needed a past, but even come to America,
Speaker 5: people just came because the country was growing. There was
Speaker 5: an incredible amount of opportunity with land and other opportunities here,
Speaker 5: and so that's the great wave of migration in the
Speaker 5: eighteen forties with the Irish and the East Europeans and
Speaker 5: Asians in the second half of the nineteenth century, and
Speaker 5: then there were restrictions on immigration in the nineteen twenties
Speaker 5: and thirties.
Speaker 4: So it's a fascinating story.
Speaker 5: And fortunately we were able to come to America after
Speaker 5: World War Two, and so my parents didn't want to
Speaker 5: stay in Europe anymore, since all their family members were
Speaker 5: killed during World War Two in Poland, and so they
Speaker 5: decided to come to America. And since my father's mother
Speaker 5: grew up in America and went back to Poland got
Speaker 5: Marrick raised the family and was killed during the war,
Speaker 5: he figured, let's go to America and enjoy the benefits
Speaker 5: of what America had to offer. And as he told me,
Speaker 5: he came to America with one hundred and fifty dollars
Speaker 5: in his pocket.
Speaker 3: Right. And you wrote about this in a book, didn't you?
Speaker 4: Correct?
Speaker 5: My memoir, my latest book, which was published two years ago.
Speaker 5: And the wonderful thing about that book is it takes
Speaker 5: the reader through not only the timeline from coming to
Speaker 5: America nineteen forty nine until the nineteen ninety seven comatorial campaign,
Speaker 5: but my political journey, if you will, my philosophical journey
Speaker 5: from a liberal Democrat in the nineteen sixties to a
Speaker 5: libertarian in the early seventies and flirting with the Republican
Speaker 5: Party as well. And so I became a libertarian. Is
Speaker 5: reading about the history of the country in greater detail
Speaker 5: than I did as a history major as an undergraduate,
Speaker 5: and meeting great libertarians along the way. In the seventies
Speaker 5: like mister Libertarian himself, Murray Rothbart and others in the
Speaker 5: libertarian movement.
Speaker 4: L with a small L and.
Speaker 5: I had great hopes for the Libertarian Party, but unfortunately
Speaker 5: it hasn't lived up to it what it could have been,
Speaker 5: which is a really powerful force in American politics. And
Speaker 5: I saw this firsthand in New Jersey because the way
Speaker 5: we raised enough money to get the matching funds is
Speaker 5: that we had a copywriter send a letter to excuse
Speaker 5: me libertarians around the country and we raised one hundred
Speaker 5: and fifty thousand dollars two weeks before the deadline to
Speaker 5: apply for the matching funds excuse me. And so that's
Speaker 5: how we're able to make a dent in the two
Speaker 5: party system in nineteen ninety seven, and that momentum wasn't
Speaker 5: carried through by the Libertarian Party. And the interesting thing
Speaker 5: about that year, this is where strategy comes in.
Speaker 4: In nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 5: There were only two Gubnato races in the country, New
Speaker 5: Jersey and Virginia, so the attention of American politics was
Speaker 5: on New Jersey and Virginia.
Speaker 4: And since I became.
Speaker 5: The third party candidate that got into the matching in
Speaker 5: the debates. We were getting national press. I was on
Speaker 5: the front page of the New York Times, I was
Speaker 5: interviewed by the Time New York Times, I was on
Speaker 5: the various national shows. And so again, when you only
Speaker 5: have a six week campaign, so I could appreciate what
Speaker 5: Kamala Harris went through since she only had a three
Speaker 5: month campaign. But she was the worst potential candidate in
Speaker 5: my lifetime, maybe in all American history.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 2: Now that's something I wanted to ask you about, actually
Speaker 2: regarding this past selection. Okay, and I do keep saying
Speaker 2: selection it's not a speech impediment, all right, But the
Speaker 2: thing is, she was a way worse candidate than it
Speaker 2: seems any of the alleged analysts on the corporate media
Speaker 2: want to admit.
Speaker 3: She was terrible.
Speaker 2: She was so terrible that she didn't even make it
Speaker 2: through the primary process when she went up against guess who,
Speaker 2: Joe Biden, you know, trying to get on anyway, she
Speaker 2: was just an awful candidate, And I wanted to ask
Speaker 2: you about that. But something else came up when you
Speaker 2: mentioned that you were, you know, on the Democratic side,
Speaker 2: say in the sixties, and that is that you may
Speaker 2: have indeed been a supporter of Robert Kennedy Senior, you know,
Speaker 2: when he was making his run. And so I wondered
Speaker 2: what you might have to say about this guy who
Speaker 2: was definitely not somebody who would normally be in the
Speaker 2: Republican Party joining the Trump administration, you know, and now
Speaker 2: going into that, because there's been a lot of talk
Speaker 2: about it, and on my show there was talk about
Speaker 2: it because well, now we're finally going to get files
Speaker 2: released and all this kind of stuff. We're going to
Speaker 2: get transparency on JFK's assassination because Bobby Kennedy.
Speaker 3: Junior is there.
Speaker 2: But there's a whole lot more to it, because Bobby
Speaker 2: made a lot more sense and I do mean Junior
Speaker 2: made a lot more sense going to the Libertarian Convention
Speaker 2: in my mind than did Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: But they were both invited.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if you could speak to this kind
Speaker 2: of shift that occurred, because obviously you witnessed it. The
Speaker 2: Democratic Party in the sixties does not resemble the Democratic
Speaker 2: Party here in the twenty twenties. They are not even
Speaker 2: recognizable between each other in my mind, and the Republican
Speaker 2: Party from the nineties is not recognizable to the MAGA
Speaker 2: influence party of today. Now that could just be my
Speaker 2: sentimentality getting at me. But maybe i'm, you know.
Speaker 3: Again, not too far off. What are your thought thoughts
Speaker 3: about that?
Speaker 2: Again, I know you're going to look at the individual
Speaker 2: and you're going to weigh and measure everything. And obviously,
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, if you believe in libertarian principles at all,
Speaker 2: Kamala is not your candidate.
Speaker 3: We know that. Okay, it's just it's obvious. But what
Speaker 3: are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2: The transition from the parties and also the fact that
Speaker 2: there's this denial out there about exactly how bad of
Speaker 2: a candidate Kamala Harris was.
Speaker 3: Those two things if you wouldn't mind, well, I.
Speaker 5: Think it's fascinating if you look at the Democratic candidates
Speaker 5: from JFK to the president. I think the shift occurred
Speaker 5: with the first baby boomer president, which was Bill Clinton,
Speaker 5: who brought a lot of baggage to his candidacy in
Speaker 5: terms of his personal sexual escapades as a governor of
Speaker 5: Arkansas and allegations of rape, and so the fact that
Speaker 5: he was able to survive his presidency with all these allegations,
Speaker 5: and then you had his acolytes get on CNN at
Speaker 5: the time and other news shows and basically downplay the
Speaker 5: accusations against him, even though he paid I think Paula
Speaker 5: Jones eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars for some sexual
Speaker 5: activity that she claimed he was involved with her, namely
Speaker 5: forcing her to engage in sex. So I think that
Speaker 5: was the turning point in nineteen ninety two nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 5: And Clinton, we have to remember, was elected twice with
Speaker 5: less than fifty percent of the vote. I think forty
Speaker 5: three percent the first time and I think a little
Speaker 5: bit more of the second time. So he was a
Speaker 5: minority president in both elections and.
Speaker 3: On parole once by the way, So yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean Paro got nineteen percent and then nine percent,
Speaker 5: so he lost a lot of votes the second time around.
Speaker 4: But I think Bill Clinton sort.
Speaker 5: Of set the stage for a president no matter what
Speaker 5: his personal baggage is. Even though he lied on their
Speaker 5: oath and that's why he was impeached and not convicted
Speaker 5: by the Senate, he was able to get away with it.
Speaker 5: And and again the defensive Clinton was really absolutely uh
Speaker 5: stunning that that his activities were sort of discounted by
Speaker 5: the by the media, by his acolytes in the Democratic Party.
Speaker 5: So when you go to two thousand Gore, Gore basically
Speaker 5: distanced himself from Clinton, and he lost. And then John
Speaker 5: Kerry was a very poor candidate. And then comes along Obama,
Speaker 5: the first truly African American candidate, and people just gushed
Speaker 5: over him. There was a financial crisis, and again you
Speaker 5: had a terrible report candidate John McCain.
Speaker 4: He was just an awful candidate. He was basically saying, well,
Speaker 4: let's bomb Iran.
Speaker 5: Remember he used the song from the sixties Barbara Ann
Speaker 5: bomb Bomb.
Speaker 4: Bomb Iran. And he made Barry Goldwater look.
Speaker 5: I think like a peacenik in terms of his persona,
Speaker 5: that we should bomb Iran. So then then you get
Speaker 5: two terms of Obama and then you get Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 5: It's her turn to run for president, and she was
Speaker 5: an awful candidate and she lost because she didn't connect
Speaker 5: with people.
Speaker 4: I think people didn't like her.
Speaker 5: I think she didn't offer anything that of substance, and
Speaker 5: so she couldn't become Obama's third term. And then you
Speaker 5: get COVID in twenty nineteen, the election of Trump, who
Speaker 5: people thought would never have a chance against her because
Speaker 5: people thought his candidacy was a week. But I was
Speaker 5: on a radio show a week before the election in
Speaker 5: Connecticut and I said, given the crowds and the enthusiasm
Speaker 5: that is being.
Speaker 4: Reported, I think he's going to win. And of course
Speaker 4: he won.
Speaker 5: He won many of the blue states that supposedly she
Speaker 5: was going to win. So then COVID comes along and
Speaker 5: Joe Biden throws his hat in the ring, and what
Speaker 5: you get is a very weak candidate who comes in
Speaker 5: fifth in New Hampshire primary. Have someone who comes in
Speaker 5: fifth in New Hampshire primary gets the nomination because he
Speaker 5: goes to South Carolina and Congressman climber rallies all the
Speaker 5: minority voters in there, and he wins there, and then
Speaker 5: the rest is history.
Speaker 4: He wins the nomination.
Speaker 5: Because Bernice Sanders couldn't get any traction either, Warren, The.
Speaker 3: Thing was written really fast.
Speaker 2: Here is again, I think it was underestimated exactly how
Speaker 2: bad of a candidate she was.
Speaker 3: I mean, I famously said on this show. The only
Speaker 3: thing that made sense to me.
Speaker 2: Is that, you know, she was such a bad candidate
Speaker 2: that if the CIA stole the election, for nobody would
Speaker 2: buy it, you know, like we'd all know it was
Speaker 2: bs and that's why they couldn't stick her in there.
Speaker 2: I mean, because that's what it felt like, is that
Speaker 2: it was like an automatic thing. Even say a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks before, you know, the Democrats practically had the
Speaker 2: attitude of, well, there's no way this clown's going to
Speaker 2: beat us, and she was so bad of a candidate
Speaker 2: that yeah, and I couldn't find an honesty, goodness Hillary
Speaker 2: supporter to come on my show if they weren't working
Speaker 2: for the for the candidacy. There was no way, no independent,
Speaker 2: like somebody was excited about her being president? Could I
Speaker 2: find to come on the show. Nobody?
Speaker 4: You know, you know, you know it's really ironic. Chuck,
Speaker 4: you who elected.
Speaker 5: Donald Trump president in twenty sixteen, tell me Barack Obama nice.
Speaker 4: Because if Biden was.
Speaker 5: Obama's VP, he would think that Obama would give the
Speaker 5: nod to Biden as the as the candidate. But Hillary
Speaker 5: Clinton wanted it so badly and she thought she would
Speaker 5: win against Trump, who railroaded in the primary.
Speaker 4: I think what happened.
Speaker 5: I think Hillary Clinton had stuff on Obama because she
Speaker 5: must have ties to the FBI and CIA because she
Speaker 5: was first Lady, so she probably has people in those
Speaker 5: two organizations that had stuff with Obama, and he stayed
Speaker 5: neutral in the race. Or I think he supported Hillary
Speaker 5: but Obama. But Joe didn't run because, ye, well, the
Speaker 5: public the public reason was that his son had just died,
Speaker 5: and he didn't want to run soon after his son died,
Speaker 5: But his son really wanted him to.
Speaker 4: Both wanted him to run for president.
Speaker 5: And so I think Biden would have beaten Trump in
Speaker 5: twenty sixteen because he would have run the blue states.
Speaker 3: Well, see, that's the weird thing.
Speaker 2: That was an aberration because normally, it was just sort
Speaker 2: of a given that if you had a president who
Speaker 2: served two terms, who would run that next time around? Right,
Speaker 2: the guy who was with him, the vice president, would
Speaker 2: come out and run.
Speaker 3: It was just the normal thing to do.
Speaker 2: We saw that with you know, Bush, We saw that
Speaker 2: with Al Gore. He was, you know, the logical next
Speaker 2: running president would be the previous vice president if they
Speaker 2: had served two terms.
Speaker 3: Right, That was normal. And that was the weird thing.
Speaker 2: It was sort of like Obama got behind Hillary, not
Speaker 2: behind Biden, And okay, that was a weird sort of
Speaker 2: you know, Okay, so my son just died and a
Speaker 2: lot of people would have to say, look, if that's
Speaker 2: the real reason, Okay, you know, maybe you're not ready
Speaker 2: because it shakes you to lose a child, all right,
Speaker 2: sympathetically you could say that, but to me, it was
Speaker 2: still way too out of order. It was like clear
Speaker 2: that Hillary had this juice that was going to get
Speaker 2: her over, and the party treated her like there's no reason,
Speaker 2: you know, they meetcapped Bernie Sanders. He had an honest
Speaker 2: to goodness enthusiastic following. I mean even when I took calls,
Speaker 2: like I said, I'd never get a Hillary supporter, but
Speaker 2: I could occasionally get a Bernie supporter to come on
Speaker 2: the show or to call in or something. But nobody
Speaker 2: was enthusiastically not among the regular public was enthusiastically like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I want Hillary in there. No, it just wasn't there.
Speaker 2: And I think it's again because she, like you said,
Speaker 2: she made no connections. She should have gone with the
Speaker 2: grandma angle.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I'm a grandmother, I'm a great person, I'm a mom.
Speaker 2: She used none of those human things to say, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm part of the fabric of America.
Speaker 3: I'm one of you. She didn't do any of that nothing.
Speaker 4: Well, it just shows you her arrogance.
Speaker 5: And the thing that really is interesting about twenty sixteen
Speaker 5: is that Trump didn't think he was going to win.
Speaker 5: I stayed up all night to watch the election returns,
Speaker 5: and when it was announced that he won, he came
Speaker 5: on the stage and I said to myself, he's just
Speaker 5: was elected president, and he's probably saying to himself, holy shit,
Speaker 5: I'm president.
Speaker 4: What am I going to do now?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: And he picked the worst choices for his cabinet and
Speaker 5: for his advisors, and that shows you that he was
Speaker 5: not ready. He had no transition in place. He didn't
Speaker 5: have anything in place, so he wasn't vetting any people
Speaker 5: to find out who were the best people for these
Speaker 5: key positions. And he brought a lot of the neo
Speaker 5: cons into his administration, and that's what I think her them.
Speaker 5: In addition, he hurt himself badly with COVID because when
Speaker 5: Fauci told them, oh, all these millions of people are
Speaker 5: going to die if you don't have a lockdown, and
Speaker 5: he had the lockdown for two weeks, and then the
Speaker 5: governor's piggyback on that, and then you had lockdowns throughout
Speaker 5: the country except in Florida and some other places. He
Speaker 5: should have said to Fauci, you know what, this is
Speaker 5: such an issue of monumental importance. I think we need
Speaker 5: to convene a form to get people's perspectives on this issue.
Speaker 5: Because to have one person in the federal government or
Speaker 5: Fauci and Bricks, two people in the federal government mandate
Speaker 5: what should occur regarding healthcare.
Speaker 4: It is preposterous.
Speaker 5: So he really blew that opportunity to say, listen, I
Speaker 5: really want to have more voices on this issue, even
Speaker 5: though you're telling me really direst consequences if we don't
Speaker 5: like down the country, which of course didn't work. And
Speaker 5: now let's realize that the six feet this ends the masks.
Speaker 5: And of course the so called vaccine I never believed
Speaker 5: in because vaccines take years and years to develop.
Speaker 4: It doesn't take place in less than a year.
Speaker 5: And so now people are getting shots every three months
Speaker 5: six months, which is absurd. And so I think Trump
Speaker 5: has to be held accountable for making I think egregious
Speaker 5: decisions that really harmed the country. Because Sweden didn't lock down,
Speaker 5: and the results of Sweden were much better than countries
Speaker 5: that did.
Speaker 4: Lock down, there's a lot of evidence.
Speaker 5: Out there about it, and of course now we're seeing
Speaker 5: illnesses come up. Cancer is spiking all over the country
Speaker 5: in Mayo, karaditis against among young people. So there are
Speaker 5: a lot of bad things happening with this shot. And
Speaker 5: it was predictable based upon some people's analysis of the
Speaker 5: MR and VAC scene or the so called vaccine. So again,
Speaker 5: and of course, by not being in the primaries this
Speaker 5: time around, for his perspective, Trump did the right thing
Speaker 5: by staying out of the primaries because if you were
Speaker 5: in the primaries, he could be attacked for.
Speaker 4: His COVID policies.
Speaker 5: The question is would Christy and Santas and Nikki Hally
Speaker 5: attack him for that or would they just go along
Speaker 5: with the establishment narrative that what Trump did was basically correct.
Speaker 4: So that's one thing I really hold against Trump.
Speaker 5: If you want to be a president of the United
Speaker 5: States and there's the primary and you don't participate, that
Speaker 5: is a big f you to the voters. And apparently
Speaker 5: obviously it didn't hurt him because he still got the nomination,
Speaker 5: But because I was a candidate in the Republican Party
Speaker 5: and the Liberty and Party with no primaries. If you
Speaker 5: want to get the votes of the people, you have
Speaker 5: to demonstrate why you deserve to be the nominee of
Speaker 5: the party for whatever office you're seeking. So I think
Speaker 5: from my perspective, Trump not going to the primary to
Speaker 5: me is a big negative as far as my perspective
Speaker 5: on his candidacy because he.
Speaker 4: Think he thought he was entitled to thenomination, he had
Speaker 4: entitled to the denomination.
Speaker 5: This is this is the mindset of politicians that either
Speaker 5: they think the public's entitled to other people's money or
Speaker 5: they think they're entitled to the nomination. So that's why
Speaker 5: I think he lost a lot of support during the
Speaker 5: primaries because he didn't get one hundred percent of the vote.
Speaker 4: People wanted an alternative.
Speaker 5: In fact, people wanted an alternative to both Trump and Biden,
Speaker 5: and we just got half of that alternative change with
Speaker 5: Kamala Harris, which just shows.
Speaker 4: You how the Democrats were too smart. By half.
Speaker 5: Is Biden should have gotten out of the race a
Speaker 5: year earlier so he could have a robust primary.
Speaker 4: Right And.
Speaker 5: Again you have to blame his family, You have to
Speaker 5: blame the republic, the Democratic insiders. They should have said
Speaker 5: to Biden, listen, thank you for your service. We're going
Speaker 5: to do all we can to give you a library.
Speaker 5: But it's time that we have a new generation of leadership.
Speaker 5: I mean, the guy was declining. We saw that in
Speaker 5: twenty twenty and by twenty twenty three, he was really declining.
Speaker 5: And for people not to see it, and for this
Speaker 5: press every they say he has so much energy here
Speaker 5: runs ring around us young folks, and it's just a
Speaker 5: blatant lie. And the media didn't probe this as the
Speaker 5: way they should. They should have had stories about his
Speaker 5: cognitive ability. They should have assisted that he have a
Speaker 5: neurological test, they should have assisted his personal position, have
Speaker 5: a press conference and go over his physical and mental acuity.
Speaker 5: And that's transparency. I mean, you're dealing with the most
Speaker 5: important job in the world, certainly in the United States,
Speaker 5: and you want tobody there who's got all the faculties
Speaker 5: together and is physically able to do the job.
Speaker 4: And we now know that Biden.
Speaker 5: I think, and no one has reported on this. I
Speaker 5: think the reason he spent so much time in Delaware
Speaker 5: on the weekends is I think he was getting some
Speaker 5: sort of special therapy, whether it's oxygen therapy or injections
Speaker 5: or whatever. Because after he came back from Delaware, he
Speaker 5: seemed to be more sharp and alert.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, we never know exactly what they're going to
Speaker 2: do behind closed doors like that. But this brings up
Speaker 2: another issue though for me, And this is something that
Speaker 2: I really want to get your thoughts on because to me,
Speaker 2: it's an obscene amount of money that was spent on
Speaker 2: this presidential campaign. And I do mean, you know, take
Speaker 2: a look at all sides of this. The amount of
Speaker 2: money that was raised here is billions of dollars for
Speaker 2: what is it, the four hundred thousand dollars job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean really, you think about that.
Speaker 2: If I told you, you know, you have to spend
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars okay, to get you know, a
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars job, You're going to look at me
Speaker 2: like I'm crazy. But this is billions of dollars being
Speaker 2: spent for this presidential election. And I don't mean just
Speaker 2: the ads. I mean they spent a lot of money
Speaker 2: all across the board. One guy's got merchandise coming out
Speaker 2: of his ears, fine and dandy. But the amount of
Speaker 2: money that was spent on this exercise, okay, in elections,
Speaker 2: I mean, what about that isn't there a way to
Speaker 2: bring that back, I mean, make it so that money
Speaker 2: doesn't get I mean, to me, it's a gigantic waste.
Speaker 2: The amount of people that are suffering in this country
Speaker 2: versus the amount of money that was spent on this
Speaker 2: presidential cycle, I mean is insane.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 4: Well, I've rigged about this years and years ago.
Speaker 5: After the two thousand campaign, when I sawt the republic
Speaker 5: nomination for the Senate, right, I said, instead of having
Speaker 5: these dopey thirty second ads, each newspaper in the country
Speaker 5: should give the candidates a place in the Sunday paper
Speaker 5: to express their position, and the candidate should go around
Speaker 5: to town hall meetings in all the states that they
Speaker 5: want to campaign in and meet the people directly. And
Speaker 5: the cable company should cover this, and you don't have
Speaker 5: to spend money on these dopey ads that it wouldn't
Speaker 5: and you wouldn't have to raise all this money, and
Speaker 5: all this money that was raised Chuck could have been
Speaker 5: used to open nonprofit health centers to eventually abolish Medicaid.
Speaker 5: Because there's a wonderful nonprofit health center here in Naples
Speaker 5: called the Neighborood Health Clinic. They've been in business for
Speaker 5: twenty five years. They don't take a penny of tax
Speaker 5: payer money. It's all voluntary contributions. I helped create one
Speaker 5: in Bergen County in New Jersey. I support two others
Speaker 5: in New Jersey, even though we're no longer residents there,
Speaker 5: but they do such great work and they're basically all
Speaker 5: on voluntary contributions. That is the American way that if
Speaker 5: you want to help our.
Speaker 4: Neighbor, we do so through.
Speaker 5: A nonprofit, whether it's Habitat, the Humanity of the Red Cross,
Speaker 5: the Salvation Army, a SPCA. You just go down the
Speaker 5: list of how many nonprofits there are that are doing
Speaker 5: great work. And that's why we should reduce taxes so
Speaker 5: people can donate to their favorite charities.
Speaker 4: Saint Jews, children that go.
Speaker 5: There and their parents, they don't get a bill even
Speaker 5: for transportation and stays in the motel or hotel.
Speaker 4: So that's the American way to cancer Hoism.
Speaker 2: The cancer hospital for kids there, Yest Jews right Goohead.
Speaker 5: And the Shriners also, so there are we have everything
Speaker 5: in place to use the term that's buried about. We
Speaker 5: have the infrastructure in place to transfer virtually everything the
Speaker 5: federal government does to the nonprofit sector, whether it's arts organization,
Speaker 5: so you don't need the national arts policies in the
Speaker 5: federal government. We have so many nonprofits that are doing
Speaker 5: great work. So if you reduce people's taxes, they can
Speaker 5: help support their local nonprofit, whether.
Speaker 6: It be.
Speaker 5: Literary literacy, literacy centers, job training centers, you name it.
Speaker 5: Because the government can only spend what it taxes the
Speaker 5: people and what it borrows, what the Federal Reserve prints.
Speaker 5: That's a whole nother story about the Federal Reserve. But
Speaker 5: we need to downsize the government and that would free
Speaker 5: up resources because you have all these people in Washington
Speaker 5: that are basically paper pushes. They don't create any any
Speaker 5: any real value to the American people. All they do
Speaker 5: is collect money and spend the money. But they don't
Speaker 5: provide any services that could be done at the local level,
Speaker 5: whether it's food banks, so you don't need food stamps,
Speaker 5: snap program, and so the list goes on and on
Speaker 5: of everything that the federal government does in the welfare
Speaker 5: state can be done with a nonprofit sector.
Speaker 2: Well, there you go, and I urge people to go
Speaker 2: ahead and subscribe to your substack and you also mentioned
Speaker 2: to me you've got another thing coming up.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: You're a regular guest on a couple of radio shows,
Speaker 2: So if you want to talk about that or tell
Speaker 2: people where to find the substack, please do because, believe
Speaker 2: it or not, we've been talking for almost an hour now,
Speaker 2: and you know, I want to make sure people know
Speaker 2: where to find your work. And a lot of these
Speaker 2: things that we've just heard Murray speak about are discussed
Speaker 2: constantly on his substack, and I imagine on those radio shows.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I haven't listened to all those, but I have taken
Speaker 2: note that you're a regular guest in a couple of places,
Speaker 2: but you also have an upcoming project. So I don't
Speaker 2: know if you want to mention that, but go ahead
Speaker 2: and tell people where to find your store.
Speaker 5: I do post at murraysaberint substack dot com. I do
Speaker 5: a video post now. Instead of writing them out, I
Speaker 5: just spend five ten minutes on several topics. I link
Speaker 5: to articles that have much more detailed information about the
Speaker 5: topics I discussed. So that's Murray Saber dot subsect dot com.
Speaker 5: Every Wednesday at eleven a m. Eastern time, I'm on
Speaker 5: Gary Nolan's show in Missouri, he's a libertarian, and we
Speaker 5: discuss so whatever issue he wants to discuss.
Speaker 4: So today we discussed the economy. What's happening in the economy,
Speaker 4: And it looks like the Fed Reserve is doing what
Speaker 4: it always does, lower interest rates in order to stimulate
Speaker 4: the economy.
Speaker 5: But the economy seems to do fairly well without all
Speaker 5: the stimulations, So why the Fed is doing that means
Speaker 5: that one thing that they think the economy is going
Speaker 5: to get weaked down the road. And historically the Fed
Speaker 5: lows interest rates when a recession is on the horizon.
Speaker 5: But no one sees or recession on the horizon yet,
Speaker 5: so we'll see what happens there. Also, my memoir From
Speaker 5: Immigrant to Public Intellectual American Story is available on Amazon,
Speaker 5: and like we discussed earlier, it just gives you a
Speaker 5: good overview of my journey in America from nineteen forty
Speaker 5: nine to nineteen ninety.
Speaker 4: Seven, some personal stuff, some.
Speaker 5: Political stuff, and then it's interesting a PostScript in the
Speaker 5: book about in two thousand, Governor Whitman was going to
Speaker 5: seek the Republican nomination for the US Senate as I was,
Speaker 5: and we were going to go head and head in
Speaker 5: the primary, but she dropped out a year before the primary,
Speaker 5: and I basically got her out of the race, even
Speaker 5: though I didn't do anything except I was going to
Speaker 5: seek the nomination, and I was told by her campaign
Speaker 5: manager in June of in June of two thousand, she
Speaker 5: dropped out the Labor Day of ninety nine, that there
Speaker 5: was a poll done I guess in June of ninety
Speaker 5: nine that had me a thirty five percent of the
Speaker 5: vote a year before the primary.
Speaker 4: So it would have been an uphill battle.
Speaker 5: But could you imagine I had knocked off our sitting governor
Speaker 5: for the Republican nomination for the US Senate, I would
Speaker 5: probably have been one of the most desired Republican candidates
Speaker 5: in the country.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: Look, you could have met up with Ron Paul at
Speaker 2: that point and maybe created a great ticket.
Speaker 3: You know, that would have been excellent. Right.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we saw that too. I appreciate Ron Paul, by
Speaker 2: the way, But again, you know, when the establishment doesn't
Speaker 2: want you to go forward, a lot of times they
Speaker 2: make it so. And that is part of the problem.
Speaker 2: The establishment is not getting the job done for a
Speaker 2: lot of people, and it's because well, what are they
Speaker 2: doing but repeating the same mistakes from the past, looks
Speaker 2: like to me, Murray. So your final thought before I
Speaker 2: close this out.
Speaker 4: Well, the thing is, I appreciate being on the show.
Speaker 5: And if you go to my substack, I have in
Speaker 5: my bio section at the bottom of my substack there
Speaker 5: links to my books. I have six books published. My
Speaker 5: first book was published thirty years ago this coming January,
Speaker 5: and how to create a tax free America. So this
Speaker 5: article is basically an update, a nice summary update of
Speaker 5: what I proposed in nineteen ninety five in my book
Speaker 5: on how to Create a tax for America. Then I
Speaker 5: wrote a book on the Federal Reserve called Why the
Speaker 5: Federal Reserve Sucks that was published.
Speaker 4: In twenty eighteen. Then I've written two books on healthcare.
Speaker 5: And another one on the business cycle, plus my latest
Speaker 5: book in my memoir.
Speaker 4: So again, they're all available on Amazon. So I hope
Speaker 4: people read it.
Speaker 5: They can bundle it up and give it to a
Speaker 5: young person or a middle aged person and get some
Speaker 5: ideas about healthcare, the federal Reserve, and how to create
Speaker 5: a free economy and a limited government in Washington, d C.
Speaker 3: Well, there you go. Limited government.
Speaker 2: That's one thing that seems like you know, my listeners
Speaker 2: don't have a lot in common, but that's one thing
Speaker 2: they usually do have in common, is that you know what,
Speaker 2: this has gotten way too far out of hand and
Speaker 2: something does need to be done about it.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: We may have different solutions in mind, and if we're
Speaker 2: able to listen to each other and get the best solutions.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And you know, read things like Murray Substack again, murraysabran
Speaker 2: dot substack dot com.
Speaker 3: Go there, get the books. I'll give you links in
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 1: Notes and have the.
Speaker 3: Views expressed by caller schools.
Speaker 7: There anyone else who happens again on the aera of
Speaker 7: Jelly dot com if you've not necessarily replied the views
Speaker 7: of dot com or Kelly and we are not responsible
Speaker 7: for any stupidity which might in students.
Speaker 6: Do you like history? Real history that you were never
Speaker 6: taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War, Nuclear Bombs and
Speaker 6: Nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with
Speaker 6: new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to
Speaker 6: events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War,
Speaker 6: Nuclear Bombs and Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty
Speaker 6: five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at
Speaker 6: Amazon dot com Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swans.
Speaker 8: Something did you compt.
Speaker 1: A ex so the spirit can say?
Speaker 9: Side students says nuclear holocaust?
Speaker 4: You know what uranium is right, called nuclear weapons and
Speaker 4: other things like lots of you know what uranium is right?
Speaker 1: Bad things?
Speaker 3: Takes a uraniums are bad things? Do youse?
Speaker 7: Expressed by caller school, Is there anyone else who happens
Speaker 7: to get on the air of jelly dot com if
Speaker 7: not necessarily replet he views of jelly dot com or
Speaker 7: jolly and we are not responsible. We're getting stupid, which might.
Speaker 3: Have student you go ahead the truth about the fascination right, well,
Speaker 3: what do you want to know?
Speaker 2: His wild claim Oswald girlfriends he knew ruby and very
Speaker 2: handswer weapons. Really, I imagine I could claim I have
Speaker 2: four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon.
Speaker 1: But okay, Bilby and trying to present the murder of
Speaker 1: John Kennedy, come on now, has.
Speaker 10: A real effort on the DAFA assassination Blaim.
Speaker 2: Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her
Speaker 2: own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy
Speaker 2: of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words
Speaker 2: and the known.
Speaker 3: Evidence in the case.
Speaker 2: To get at well a different perspective, let's say you
Speaker 2: can get Judith Very Baker in her own words from
Speaker 2: the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting
Speaker 2: doctor Brown at k I A S JFK at aol
Speaker 2: dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects
Speaker 2: the many, many fantastic claims.
Speaker 3: Judith Very Baker in.
Speaker 8: Her own words, thank you for all the great information.
Speaker 6: So Chilly dot Com.
Speaker 10: The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national
Speaker 10: transformation that took place and the Kennedy presidency in the
Speaker 10: context of the Times, and reveals never before published information
Speaker 10: about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have
Speaker 10: been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago.
Speaker 10: His assassination took place in the context of the Cold
Speaker 10: War and the rise of the national security state. Before
Speaker 10: World War II, the United States was a continental republic.
Speaker 10: In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower.
Speaker 10: Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,
Speaker 10: but knew that there were short range missiles on the
Speaker 10: island armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy
Speaker 10: because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have
Speaker 10: led to a Third World War, and they wanted to
Speaker 10: go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson
Speaker 10: reveals why and will show you what President Kennedy was
Speaker 10: up against. For more information, the Warstate dot com, the
Speaker 10: Ichell dot com Radio