WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, dear listener, and thanks for joining us.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Stephen and this is a podcast all about

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<v Speaker 2>the weird and wonderful world of the dark comedy anthology

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<v Speaker 2>series Inside number nine.

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<v Speaker 1>On each episode, we'll be diving into another one of

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Pemberton and Reese Shearsmith's twisted tales, putting it under

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<v Speaker 1>a lens and examining it within an inch of its life.

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<v Speaker 2>So make yourself comfortable, grab a cup of tea, and

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<v Speaker 2>join us for the ninth degree. Hello, Hello, Hello, welcome back,

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back, another week another Inside hum Beernine, How are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm good? How are you?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm okay, well not the best actually have been

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<v Speaker 1>ill for about a week, but hoping to be over

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<v Speaker 1>it soon. Yeah, just means I'm going to be.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, bless you.

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<v Speaker 1>We're we'll have to edit a lot of those out, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>apologies if we do.

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<v Speaker 2>Here Anie, Yeah, I'm off on holiday this week. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been dreading catching something. Yes see, my parents and the

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<v Speaker 2>little nieces were there full of cold, and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>why didn't you tell me?

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<v Speaker 1>Dear?

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<v Speaker 2>But so good?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but you're looking forward to going away?

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<v Speaker 2>M Yeah, I can't wait very excited and last day

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<v Speaker 2>at worked for you? Is it? No?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I've got one week to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah I thought it thought it was one week. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exciting times, exciting and terrifying.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Change, Yeah, that fun. I wonder if you spotted our

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<v Speaker 1>hair from last.

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<v Speaker 2>Week it was twelve days of Christine.

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<v Speaker 1>Wonder if me is going to be grateful? Well, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>find out.

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<v Speaker 2>It's unlike you. We've still got like twelve days of

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<v Speaker 2>Christine and ever yeah, grateful. No, I'm in treated to

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<v Speaker 2>seeing the edit how well that turned out?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but yeah, that was that spot. Another one this

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<v Speaker 1>week if you can m m that we want hidden somewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>We are back this week with episode four of series five, Misdirection. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 2>in the Insane Number nine Wiki, we have world famous

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<v Speaker 2>magician Neville Griffin is extremely protective of his secrets, but

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<v Speaker 2>student journalist Gabriel is determined to get his interview. Nonetheless,

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<v Speaker 2>Griffin actually believes that stealing a magic trick is possibly

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<v Speaker 2>worse than murder. How could he know that? Exactly? Another

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<v Speaker 2>one that I think is quite a favorite of people's.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can understand that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's quite one of the more famous ones.

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<v Speaker 2>What are your thoughts.

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<v Speaker 1>It sums up their em doesn't it. The whole title mister,

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<v Speaker 1>I think they said, actually that misdirection could have been

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<v Speaker 1>the title of Pehole show.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it would work very well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do quite like it.

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<v Speaker 2>It does remind me very much of those sort of

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<v Speaker 2>like Jonathan Creaky type, maybe even Hustle. Maybe I don't remember,

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<v Speaker 2>like having like little flashbacks to stuff that happened.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah I get that. Yeah, I was thinking Sherlock

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<v Speaker 1>was getting very shirlocky vibe.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a good one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a good one.

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<v Speaker 1>There was another episode of Inside Umber nine that I

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<v Speaker 1>felt like this was a very close twin too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I wondered if we had the same thought at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I was wondering if we had the same one.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you thinking, Sphinx?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's all centered around a thing and sort of

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<v Speaker 2>an apprentice to the thing exactly talking you through it

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<v Speaker 2>and learning it.

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<v Speaker 1>Student and the teacher. Yeah, the teacher is an asshole. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the student has this sort of ulterior motive

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<v Speaker 1>to get revenge or something. Yes, yeah, it's very similar

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<v Speaker 1>when you look at that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and at this time, reskets the turner's being the

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<v Speaker 2>asshole exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I felt like his voice was similar to another character,

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<v Speaker 1>but I couldn't think who.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I know what you mean. Yeah, I can't

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<v Speaker 2>think who either.

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<v Speaker 1>But it might just be a kind of voice he

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<v Speaker 1>uses quite a lot. I don't know if it just

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<v Speaker 1>run out of voices. Like it's quite a Steve light episode. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a shame. Yes, it's fun while he's there.

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<v Speaker 1>I've not seen in a long time, so I was

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<v Speaker 1>quite excited to watch it again. And it started with

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<v Speaker 1>Steve as the magician. I was like, but I remember

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<v Speaker 1>it being race, Like, what's okay? Right, Yeah, we've got

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<v Speaker 1>rid of Steve. That makes more sense Willie Wonder.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can see that on the cruise ships.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, when that's the name you're given, you've only

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<v Speaker 1>got quite limited career options, haven't you.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean yeah that's what he was born as.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like the people crystal chandeliers that end up working

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<v Speaker 2>as strippers. It's like, what did you expect?

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<v Speaker 1>I love his Irish accent.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw a beau. I was reading up on

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<v Speaker 2>people's opinions and someone had comment and read it very

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<v Speaker 2>specific pet Peeve as an irishman. I hate bad Irish accents,

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<v Speaker 2>and I hate even more the drunken irishman can be

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<v Speaker 2>controlled with a bottle of whiskey stereotype. You couldn't do

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<v Speaker 2>that with any other race. Cheap shot shots. I see

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<v Speaker 2>we are okay. Yeah, it's just a joke. So the

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<v Speaker 2>chair raising experience, it's a really cool intro to the episode, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't know, is this going to be quite a scary,

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<v Speaker 2>horrory type episode, Like it opens quite I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Moodily and quite sinister. The soundtrack that's playing on the phone,

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of reminds me of the Exorcist music.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, apparently it was inspired by tubular bells. He's had

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<v Speaker 2>it kicking around and finally found an excuse to use it.

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<v Speaker 1>They said, yeah, it's the perfect thing, and yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>very I know, it's quite a weird, quite a weird trick.

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<v Speaker 2>It is weird, Like, yes, it's impossible to work out

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<v Speaker 2>how it was done, but it isn't all that impressive,

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's impressive, but it's all over and done within

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<v Speaker 2>a few seconds.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's just weird. Like you know, him with the

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<v Speaker 1>big sheet over his head. If you went to see

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<v Speaker 1>a magician and you watch that, you'd be a bit like,

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<v Speaker 1>why why's he got sheet over his head? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>So I've seen the interviews with him where they've said

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<v Speaker 2>that all the tricks in the episode are real and

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<v Speaker 2>can be done blah blah blah, except this one, which

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<v Speaker 2>was totally made up. But I want to know, like,

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<v Speaker 2>in universe, what does the sheet achieve? Why can't we

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<v Speaker 2>see his face while he's doing it?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess it's meant to be. You couldn't possibly

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<v Speaker 1>work out how it's done, so they just put in

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<v Speaker 1>something to to sort of add to the believability that

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<v Speaker 1>it could be some sort of trick. You just you

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<v Speaker 1>just don't know how it works. But it doesn't really

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<v Speaker 1>make sense.

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<v Speaker 2>But I was reading obviously it was just done with

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<v Speaker 2>the crane, yes, really, and they just painted that out afterwards.

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<v Speaker 2>But because he was technically working at height, the seat

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<v Speaker 2>had to be fitted with a safety belt like a

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<v Speaker 2>seat belt, but he had to fumble and put on

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<v Speaker 2>under the sheet, and that's why he's sort of faffing

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<v Speaker 2>about for a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm wondering if that's why they added in the

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<v Speaker 1>tapping the feet in time to do that. Yeah, they

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<v Speaker 1>could have just cut away, but the director wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>keep it fixed on him in real time, so that, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it sort of looks like a real trick.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like a trick for TV where they cut away

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<v Speaker 2>and then something has happened exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And obviously we're setting this lock up, which is

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<v Speaker 1>like Neville's magic store room basically he keeps all his paraphernalia.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, of course we've not set where we are.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's quite a cool, cool set.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Reesa' is saying how he wants to live there. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it was one of his favorite sets he's ever worked done,

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<v Speaker 2>And a lot of the props are apparently Reese's from

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<v Speaker 2>his own collection of magic stuff, like in the same

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<v Speaker 2>way that Rily the Sphinx with very much Steve's passion

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<v Speaker 2>project for being a crossword lover, this is very much Reese's.

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<v Speaker 2>Like he's a big fan of magic and does a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of magic. Apparently has a room in his attic

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<v Speaker 2>that's behind a bookcase full of magic equipment. But yeah, Neville,

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<v Speaker 2>which is Reese's character, very much enjoys the trick and

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<v Speaker 2>wants to buy it. Yes, Why also is will he

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<v Speaker 2>there because he's not selling this trick or like, no

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<v Speaker 2>is it just showing off.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm guessing they must have met and then he's like

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<v Speaker 1>enticed him back to his place with alcohol, Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>like tried to get in his good books sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I suppose he's just being nice.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess so, But yeah, more fool him. Hmmm.

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<v Speaker 2>Do we reckon when Neville produces the bottle of whiskey?

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<v Speaker 2>Is his plan at that point just to get him

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<v Speaker 2>drunk or do you reckon he's planning on killing him

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<v Speaker 2>right from that point.

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<v Speaker 1>It does seem like a spur of the moment thing

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<v Speaker 1>when he decides to hit him. Yeah, it doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>premeditated to me, So yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I reckon he's probably just trying to try and get

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<v Speaker 2>him drunk and then read his notebook.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess he sees the sheet over his head and

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<v Speaker 2>he's like, oh, well I could you know? This will

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<v Speaker 2>be quite.

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<v Speaker 1>Easy, Yeah, because I think he has to get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of him, because otherwise then if he starts doing the trick,

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<v Speaker 1>he'll know where he got it from and he'll take

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<v Speaker 1>him to court.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, although I guess, well, he's meant to be

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<v Speaker 2>quite a bit older than Steve is, like maybe he's

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<v Speaker 2>hoping that he'll just die at some point and he'll

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<v Speaker 2>be able to take the trick.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I see after he dies.

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<v Speaker 2>Because he's only performed it for like little kids and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe he can just claim it's his now or something

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<v Speaker 2>that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyhow he does kill him. Hmm, we get a

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<v Speaker 1>great comedy killing scene of trying to kill him with

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<v Speaker 1>all this trick stuff that doesn't work.

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<v Speaker 2>One thing after another, Like you've got the boat that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't work, you've got the guillotine that starts not to work.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently they cut out that he was going to attack

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<v Speaker 2>him with a sword that turned into flowers. Oh wow,

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<v Speaker 2>but have to chop it for time not intended. I

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<v Speaker 2>did wonder if, because I couldn't remember exactly how it worked,

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<v Speaker 2>whether the guillotine was how it would end, or whether

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<v Speaker 2>that was yet another one that just wouldn't because it's

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<v Speaker 2>obviously not designed to kill him.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or you've.

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<v Speaker 2>Made your guillotine very badly. In the magic trade, you

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<v Speaker 2>get through a lot of assistance that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Isn't it one of those things where they show

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<v Speaker 1>you first, like on a watermelon or something, it does work,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they flick a switch or something and it

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<v Speaker 1>goes to the fake version pretty much.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Penn and Teala do it very well with a

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<v Speaker 2>big circular sore on a bench and like make a

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<v Speaker 2>big point of being like, you know, this is how

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<v Speaker 2>it works. You get under here, and you like there's

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<v Speaker 2>a little cavity under that people can get in, and

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<v Speaker 2>it all works. It's all safe because of this metal

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<v Speaker 2>bar that stops the fingering and he pulls out and

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<v Speaker 2>waves it around, at which point Teller then drops the

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<v Speaker 2>blade on someone and like they cuts right through them

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<v Speaker 2>and got to go everywhere, and like, right, that's their

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<v Speaker 2>play on it is that it goes wrong and kills

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<v Speaker 2>the person.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but any who, we have a time.

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<v Speaker 2>Jump, we do how many years later?

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder what number did they choose? Yeah? Nine years

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<v Speaker 1>later he's now successful. He's a successful stage magician. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>he's married, still in the same lock up. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>my god, he looks ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The outfit it's horrible, isn't it. Yeah? Real bad,

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<v Speaker 2>but recognizable, I suppose. Yeah that's what you need, isn't it. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking how the wife Jenny only really exists

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<v Speaker 1>in this to be murdered.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, she doesn't really have much of a character. No,

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<v Speaker 2>and they don't really have much of a relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>No, they don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I was gonna be one of my main criticisms of

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<v Speaker 2>it that I don't really feel the characters are as

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<v Speaker 2>strong as a normal week.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I don't really believe their relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>No, this is going to be have a point for later,

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<v Speaker 2>But I didn't really know, Like he doesn't really seem

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<v Speaker 2>to care when she's murdered either.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, I literally thought that, as he seems so

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<v Speaker 1>sort of blase, He's just a bit like.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, okay, well that happened, right, what do you know?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, do we reckon? Would he actually have been

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<v Speaker 2>any success anyway? Like, is it solely this trick that's

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<v Speaker 2>made him famous? Because I was wondering that we only

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<v Speaker 2>really see him do two tricks, the second one being

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<v Speaker 2>the cards that he says is quite straightforward and he

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<v Speaker 2>makes no bones of that, and this one, the Zigzag

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<v Speaker 2>Lady is such a off the shelf trick.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like it doesn't require any any of his own thought.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think it is. I think it's the chair

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<v Speaker 1>raising experience was the gateway that allowed him to make it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which she knows so much of the show bus is

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<v Speaker 1>about luck and being in the right place at the

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<v Speaker 1>right time. So yeah, you know, if all he needed

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<v Speaker 1>was one trick to get him sort of talked about, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you kind of ride on that, don't you

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<v Speaker 1>ride on your name and everything?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the rest. He doesn't need to come up with

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<v Speaker 2>something as impressive because he's already big enough name as.

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<v Speaker 1>It is, or we just he might have loads of

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<v Speaker 1>other cool stuff but we don't see it.

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<v Speaker 2>True, true, But yeah, she's just so. I guess she

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<v Speaker 2>used to be as assistant the fella and I've got

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<v Speaker 2>married blah blah blah, and she's got bored of it

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<v Speaker 2>and has retrained and is doing something that involves staying

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<v Speaker 2>in a hotel.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I was wondering if I'd just missed it what

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00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.720
<v Speaker 1>it is. But no, they don't say, do they.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 1>And something that means she'd be very likely to know

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<v Speaker 1>what a mount weasel is. Yes, like she knows, Like

283
00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.159
<v Speaker 1>she says, that's so obviously, like oh, yeah, of course

284
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<v Speaker 1>I know what that is.

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00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, I've got that written down as a note

286
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.360
<v Speaker 2>that it just felt a bit forced, that whole explanation.

287
00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:05.679
<v Speaker 1>It was a bit Yeah, it was like, we need

288
00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:07.840
<v Speaker 1>to get this in for the plot, A bit convenient.

289
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think it would have worked better, but

290
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.919
<v Speaker 2>not as dramatic, just to have been he googled it.

291
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.559
<v Speaker 2>It would have got the same information more realistically, but

292
00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:18.759
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't have been it wouldn't have you worked as

293
00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:19.720
<v Speaker 2>well on screen.

294
00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because you can't. You've just got to read it.

295
00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:21.799
<v Speaker 1>You know.

296
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:24.879
<v Speaker 2>Hes a bit boring. But when a person says it,

297
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:29.080
<v Speaker 2>like unless it's you've called up you know, some mastermind

298
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:32.039
<v Speaker 2>person that has these sort of recall things, it just

299
00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:33.679
<v Speaker 2>feels a bit weird that she would just know that

300
00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:35.919
<v Speaker 2>off the top of her head. Yeah, I'd heard the term,

301
00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:37.039
<v Speaker 2>but I couldn't remember what it was.

302
00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, there's so many of those things that have

303
00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:41.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, little names.

304
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:42.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

305
00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.480
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, unless the fact that her job is something

306
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.039
<v Speaker 1>that like she's a journalist or a you know, she

307
00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.279
<v Speaker 1>works in publishing or something, which they could have just

308
00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:52.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, let us know, Yeah, and then it would

309
00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:55.399
<v Speaker 1>have made a bit more sense. Let's assume she works

310
00:13:55.399 --> 00:14:00.399
<v Speaker 1>in publishing, and yeah, why not it worked past tense?

311
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, so the next bit we've got Gabriel.

312
00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.759
<v Speaker 1>Turns up, Yeah to interview him.

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00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:09.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I love how he gets his awards out. Yeah, puts

315
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.000
<v Speaker 1>some strategically on the table.

316
00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Dead center, what's wad and then the way Gabrielle just

317
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.120
<v Speaker 2>swipes them all to the side. Yea, I do not

318
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.799
<v Speaker 2>care about your awards. Yeah, to get into the debate,

319
00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:30.519
<v Speaker 2>which I found interesting of stagecraft versus effect.

320
00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

321
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.399
<v Speaker 2>So I went up to the Edinburgh Fringe this year

322
00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:37.080
<v Speaker 2>for the first time and they saw a magician there.

323
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.159
<v Speaker 2>He was very Darren Brownie turned out apparently with some

324
00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.559
<v Speaker 2>relation of Debbie McGee and I think he was Paul

325
00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:47.240
<v Speaker 2>mc Paul McGann, Paul Daniels. Daniels, that's the one I'm

326
00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:54.200
<v Speaker 2>looking for. Very different person, his nephew, I think. And

327
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I just caught him on a

328
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.639
<v Speaker 2>bad day, but he was all all the short of

329
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:02.679
<v Speaker 2>stagecraft and not really any of the magic. Like it

330
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.039
<v Speaker 2>was just a great big story that didn't really lead

331
00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:08.679
<v Speaker 2>to anything at the end, and that okay, it felt

332
00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.360
<v Speaker 2>like it was the worst of both worlds. Interesting that

333
00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.440
<v Speaker 2>you're having to go through this great long story but

334
00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:15.639
<v Speaker 2>you didn't actually get any big payoff from it really

335
00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.039
<v Speaker 2>because it was sort of like this example where he's

336
00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.919
<v Speaker 2>got the two tricks. You could see the first easy

337
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:26.639
<v Speaker 2>trick in the convoluted one, right, it was like, well,

338
00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.440
<v Speaker 2>you've done this, but just talked about it for half

339
00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:32.440
<v Speaker 2>an hour. But I can totally see his point of

340
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.360
<v Speaker 2>like the effect isn't always the most important thing, it's

341
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:37.799
<v Speaker 2>how you got there and how you sold it.

342
00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I could see both sides. Really. It's he's talking

343
00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.080
<v Speaker 1>about the you know, the street magic and the close

344
00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:45.600
<v Speaker 1>up magic, like it's sort of a more modern, fast

345
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:49.000
<v Speaker 1>paced kind of thing, whereas he's very old fashioned and traditional,

346
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.679
<v Speaker 1>likes the sort of more Victorian kind of like you know,

347
00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.399
<v Speaker 1>get up on a stage and be mystical and all that, you.

348
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Know in your top pattern tails.

349
00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I can see both sides. But yeah, he

350
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.799
<v Speaker 1>seems like he's very much a purist. And obviously this

351
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.159
<v Speaker 1>is all very meta about the episode itself. Yes, and

352
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.159
<v Speaker 1>how you know he says about the narrative distracts from

353
00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:13.679
<v Speaker 1>the trick, yeah, which there's so many layers and layers

354
00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:15.799
<v Speaker 1>of deception going on in this episode.

355
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Although my main thought in that whole scene was

356
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.799
<v Speaker 2>how many cards magicians must get through? Like it's always

357
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.039
<v Speaker 2>this is a brand new deck of cards. Yeah, they

358
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.240
<v Speaker 2>must be buying packs of cards by the truckload. We

359
00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:32.679
<v Speaker 2>can only use them for one trick, true keeping bicycle

360
00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and all those sorts of card manufacturers in business.

361
00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.639
<v Speaker 1>Although isn't the idea that it's not actually brand new,

362
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:39.600
<v Speaker 1>he's pretending it is.

363
00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, it was sealed, so I don't know whether I imagine.

364
00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:45.519
<v Speaker 1>Unless they are a special like magicians kind of deck.

365
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:46.919
<v Speaker 2>But well, that's what I was wondering.

366
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.159
<v Speaker 1>He makes some comment about like a rough and smooth

367
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.519
<v Speaker 1>something around there, it's a slip force card that it's

368
00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:53.879
<v Speaker 1>been prepared. Yeah, well I think it has, but I

369
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.960
<v Speaker 1>don't know whether it's like certain brands will sell trick

370
00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>decks that are pre sealed.

371
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Then like, yeah, because I used to be a bit

372
00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:04.160
<v Speaker 2>into magic when I was younger, and you could buy

373
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.519
<v Speaker 2>bicycle of the big or a big maker of cards,

374
00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.119
<v Speaker 2>and you can buy packs of their cards where it's

375
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, all double sided or whatever without writing on

376
00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:16.640
<v Speaker 2>or you know, they've got rougher sides on one side

377
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:18.359
<v Speaker 2>than the other and all sorts of things so you

378
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:20.279
<v Speaker 2>can do tricks with them. So I assume they will

379
00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:23.759
<v Speaker 2>come with you can buy card decks that are in order,

380
00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.279
<v Speaker 2>but they have the you know, six of clubs at

381
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.680
<v Speaker 2>the top or something. Yeah, for that kind of thing.

382
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:31.599
<v Speaker 1>Then you'd need to I guess it would have to

383
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:34.039
<v Speaker 1>tell you on you'd have to know somewhere which card

384
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:35.920
<v Speaker 1>is or if it's always going to be the same

385
00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:38.960
<v Speaker 1>one then yeah, that's just too obvious.

386
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.759
<v Speaker 2>This is why I loved learning these things when I

387
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.440
<v Speaker 2>was little, But it's my memory is terrible. I can

388
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.359
<v Speaker 2>never remember all this shit that you need to know.

389
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:47.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

390
00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I had a great trick that it was really easy,

391
00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:52.720
<v Speaker 2>but it required you to be able to do some

392
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.519
<v Speaker 2>really quick maths right, to be like, if you've picked

393
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.119
<v Speaker 2>this card, then you add X number to it, swap

394
00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:00.680
<v Speaker 2>it to this suit and do this, and the next

395
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.119
<v Speaker 2>card will be that, right, and that kind of stuff.

396
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:05.400
<v Speaker 2>And it was like it all worked itself out, but

397
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:07.000
<v Speaker 2>you have to do the math to be able to

398
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.000
<v Speaker 2>say and the card will be And I was like,

399
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I can't do this quickly enough.

400
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.759
<v Speaker 1>Let me just get out of my magic calculator. Yeah.

401
00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.359
<v Speaker 1>We also then have the tarot cards.

402
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:21.839
<v Speaker 2>Which creepy as hell.

403
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this is where he's showing how you can

404
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:28.039
<v Speaker 1>do basically the same trick but make it much more theatrical. Yeah,

405
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:29.400
<v Speaker 1>with a creepy story.

406
00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:31.759
<v Speaker 2>It's always a creepy old person in the forest, isn't

407
00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:33.000
<v Speaker 2>there in these stories? Or a witch?

408
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.319
<v Speaker 1>Apparently? Yes? Do you do you have any experience of

409
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:38.000
<v Speaker 1>tarot cards?

410
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.359
<v Speaker 2>My friend used to My friend that was very intelligent

411
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.119
<v Speaker 2>person used to claim that he fully believed in them,

412
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.000
<v Speaker 2>And we had a whole debate for hours or maybe

413
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.440
<v Speaker 2>not hours, but about and he just kept demanding that it.

414
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.319
<v Speaker 1>Was real, right, but real in what sense?

415
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I think his I think the ultimate

416
00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.480
<v Speaker 2>thing I got to the conclusion was that the card

417
00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.680
<v Speaker 2>drawing be random and make no sense, But it's how

418
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:05.799
<v Speaker 2>you how you interpret it, what significance you make to it.

419
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.160
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what I was going to say, because I've done.

420
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.599
<v Speaker 1>When I was younger, I had a friend who was

421
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.160
<v Speaker 1>into tara reading. And obviously you know objectively that they

422
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:15.880
<v Speaker 1>are going to be coming up randomly. You can't. There's

423
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.640
<v Speaker 1>no relationship between how they come up and anything in

424
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.759
<v Speaker 1>the world. But I think they could be a useful

425
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.559
<v Speaker 1>mental practice just to sort of interpret them, and they're

426
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:27.640
<v Speaker 1>a tool to think about your life and stuff like that.

427
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:30.200
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I've done that before and found it

428
00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:30.880
<v Speaker 1>quite interesting.

429
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:32.759
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's a bit like the flipping a coin

430
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:34.440
<v Speaker 2>and if you're happy, you're sad with the outcome kind

431
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.880
<v Speaker 2>of thing. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, you think about yeah, so youah, no,

432
00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.319
<v Speaker 2>I think I agree with your friend. Then he didn't

433
00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:44.319
<v Speaker 2>explain himself very well at the start, okay, yeah, yeah,

434
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.240
<v Speaker 2>but there's a while to get to the conclusion that

435
00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:46.839
<v Speaker 2>I think he saw.

436
00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:49.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, I suppose it's similar to horoscopes as well,

437
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.680
<v Speaker 1>and like it doesn't matter when you were born, but

438
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:53.640
<v Speaker 1>if you read in a paper that, oh, you know,

439
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.240
<v Speaker 1>be careful before you make any big decisions this week

440
00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:59.880
<v Speaker 1>because you were born in July. It doesn't matter when

441
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:02.200
<v Speaker 1>you born, it might be worth your while to be

442
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:03.960
<v Speaker 1>careful for you making any big decisions anyway.

443
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:07.680
<v Speaker 2>True, Yeah, in which case they'll read all the horoscopes exactly.

444
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:09.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pick the one you like the best.

445
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They're a really creepy deck though, that they've got in.

446
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.200
<v Speaker 1>This Yes, everything in German.

447
00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So then Gabriel wants to show Neville one of

448
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:26.720
<v Speaker 2>his tricks. Now obviously playing around with magic a bit.

449
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:28.920
<v Speaker 2>When I was younger, I worked out how it was done.

450
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you did before they told you.

451
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:33.640
<v Speaker 1>You mean the whole thing with the track a penal

452
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.960
<v Speaker 1>all that. Yeah, Okay, I don't remember, to be honest,

453
00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:37.519
<v Speaker 1>my first time watching it.

454
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.440
<v Speaker 2>It was more more so the end bit with the

455
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.440
<v Speaker 2>blood and the number and stuff, because that's quite a

456
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.519
<v Speaker 2>common one I think of writing in wax and stuff.

457
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and.

458
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.200
<v Speaker 2>I think i'd seen someone use one of those track

459
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.079
<v Speaker 2>of pens on something that was maybe one of the

460
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.960
<v Speaker 2>pen and teala type things. But yeah, I thought you

461
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.000
<v Speaker 2>did a good job though with it. Like I know,

462
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:58.119
<v Speaker 2>obviously it's not really what he's there for, but obstensibly

463
00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.920
<v Speaker 2>at the time, considering he's making out that he's quite

464
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:02.759
<v Speaker 2>new at this, and he is telling us, you know,

465
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.519
<v Speaker 2>making a story out of it a bit like he's

466
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:07.440
<v Speaker 2>not just doing the thing, he's sort of doing a

467
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:08.480
<v Speaker 2>bit of showmanship with it.

468
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.359
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's the thing. I think this character, as we

469
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.119
<v Speaker 1>find out at the end, like what his true motivation

470
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:18.200
<v Speaker 1>was and everything, he does a very very layered job

471
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:23.920
<v Speaker 1>of you know, pretending to be incompetent enough that Neville's

472
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.640
<v Speaker 1>gonna do certain things and behave in certain ways, Like

473
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:29.440
<v Speaker 1>he pictures it so perfectly so that it's you know,

474
00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:31.000
<v Speaker 1>good enough but not too good.

475
00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it doesn't scream that he's yeah, he's bad exactly.

476
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's very clever.

477
00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:38.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he does picture at just the right level.

478
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the mistakes that he makes in the trick are

479
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.039
<v Speaker 1>not actually mistakes at all. They're deliberate, No, in order

480
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.000
<v Speaker 1>to manipulate Neville and Neville just his ego. He just

481
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:50.759
<v Speaker 1>falls for it, hook clan and sincer. Yeah, it's brilliant.

482
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:52.319
<v Speaker 2>He knows that he's not going to be able to

483
00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:55.279
<v Speaker 2>resist doing those things. Yeah, as much as a lot

484
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:58.759
<v Speaker 2>of this episode does rely on sort of things going

485
00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:01.359
<v Speaker 2>the way Gabriel wants to too, Yeah, I did think

486
00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:04.000
<v Speaker 2>that there is still an element of but he knows

487
00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:07.000
<v Speaker 2>him well, presumably research the hell out of this guy. Oh,

488
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.000
<v Speaker 2>and he knows you know, how cocky he is, and

489
00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:12.920
<v Speaker 2>there's no chance he's not going to do this. He's

490
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.640
<v Speaker 2>going to want to go, oh looking, you know, open

491
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.440
<v Speaker 2>your pocket and yeah, make a showman point of taking

492
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.200
<v Speaker 2>out himself.

493
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.160
<v Speaker 1>And yes, yeah it is. I mean, I know I

494
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.240
<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier. Reminded me of Sherlock, but it is that

495
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.759
<v Speaker 1>similar thing of like the character of Sherlock Holmes couldn't

496
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.559
<v Speaker 1>exist in real life because so much of his deductions

497
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.599
<v Speaker 1>are just very very lucky guesses that, Yes, you wouldn't

498
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:36.200
<v Speaker 1>be that lucky in real life. No, So this is

499
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:37.240
<v Speaker 1>a similar thing, isn't it.

500
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I guess we don't see the Sherlock cases

501
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:45.559
<v Speaker 2>where he just got it completely wrong. Your your wedding

502
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.319
<v Speaker 2>ring isn't polished because you're taking it on and off

503
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:49.200
<v Speaker 2>all the time, travel affairs. It's just you're like polishing

504
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:55.799
<v Speaker 2>your ring because you're Oh, that sounded wrong, polishing your

505
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.000
<v Speaker 2>wedding ring because you're just, you know, really ocd and

506
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:01.319
<v Speaker 2>like to keep things and clean. I guess I don't

507
00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:04.599
<v Speaker 2>know exactly. Yeah, there's always so many options, and he

508
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:06.240
<v Speaker 2>always happens to be the right one.

509
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So yeah, Nevill tears apart the trick.

510
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.880
<v Speaker 2>I like the flashbacks though, and like you see how

511
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:13.319
<v Speaker 2>it was done.

512
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:16.039
<v Speaker 1>That's nice, Yes, And I like it sort of in

513
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:19.319
<v Speaker 1>Neville's imagination because it's the way he thinks it was done, yes,

514
00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:21.759
<v Speaker 1>with the wax thumb tip. Yeah, and then he says no,

515
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.440
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't a wax thumtip, and then you get the

516
00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:24.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of corrected flashback.

517
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And even then it's sort of like a joke

518
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.559
<v Speaker 2>because Gabriel winks, oh, I smiles at the camera.

519
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that's quite funny there where

520
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:35.759
<v Speaker 1>he stops and he says it wasn't a wax thumb tip,

521
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.599
<v Speaker 1>it was just a candle and he just goes close enough.

522
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:42.440
<v Speaker 2>It still cats. I get the points. Yeah, and the

523
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.680
<v Speaker 2>way he calls it early Darren Brown at best, the

524
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.759
<v Speaker 2>thinking he's going to get the save code out of him.

525
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Again, that's another example, isn't it of just that

526
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:54.119
<v Speaker 1>perfect He's he's pretending that he's trying to be clever, yeah,

527
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.279
<v Speaker 1>but not clever enough. But in actual fact he's being

528
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:57.599
<v Speaker 1>very clever.

529
00:23:58.119 --> 00:23:59.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so clever that it doesn't register.

530
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, by deliberately making it obvious obvious enough. Yeah,

531
00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:07.119
<v Speaker 1>he's just on another level, very clever.

532
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:09.000
<v Speaker 2>How long has he been planning this?

533
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:12.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, So we kind of find out around this

534
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.839
<v Speaker 1>point that, well, it's heavily implied that his granddad was

535
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Willie Wando. Yes, and there's some sort of unfinished business.

536
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Presumably this was a lot meant to be remotely surprising,

537
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.000
<v Speaker 2>that you're meant to have worked this out and guess.

538
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah yeah yeah, and then Neville slips up when

539
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:30.960
<v Speaker 1>he says he took his secrets with him to the

540
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:36.079
<v Speaker 1>grave you is dead. Yeah, but he's in that place

541
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:39.119
<v Speaker 1>of like, well, I know you probably suspect me of

542
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:42.480
<v Speaker 1>mergering him, but you can't prove it. So let's just

543
00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:44.000
<v Speaker 1>get you out of here now and get out of

544
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:44.400
<v Speaker 1>my life.

545
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And like he says, he you know, he has

546
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.079
<v Speaker 2>to deal with people claiming people stole his tricks all

547
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.640
<v Speaker 2>the time, which, going by what's happened so far, is

548
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.640
<v Speaker 2>probably not far off the truth. He probably does because

549
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.519
<v Speaker 2>it's a bit like that thing of you know, every

550
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.519
<v Speaker 2>novel is just a reworker Shakespeare or whatever. There's only

551
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.119
<v Speaker 2>so many tricks you really can do that, are you

552
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:05.759
<v Speaker 2>know when you boil them down?

553
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I suppose. Yeah. And I guess that's where the showman

554
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.400
<v Speaker 1>ship comes in, isn't it, because you make it different.

555
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you sell it as a separate thing. Yeah.

556
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.400
<v Speaker 1>So Gabriel, I've put in quote Marks tries to open

557
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:20.839
<v Speaker 1>the safe. Yeah, although of course he knows he can't

558
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:24.279
<v Speaker 1>actually do it. He's just trying to freak Neville out.

559
00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Imagine if he had been clever like Neville just hadn't

560
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:29.720
<v Speaker 2>worked it out, and that was the safe code and

561
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:31.200
<v Speaker 2>it did just open, what would you have done?

562
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 1>At that Well then yeah, then yeah, everyone's a winner.

563
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:36.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, apart from not to murder anyone anymore.

564
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he spent all.

565
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.519
<v Speaker 2>That money on all the tech and he didn't need it. Yeah.

566
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.279
<v Speaker 1>I did enjoy watching this because, you know, I think

567
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:47.039
<v Speaker 1>the first time, I think you buy the fact that

568
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:50.119
<v Speaker 1>Gabriel is just being a little bit incompetent and that

569
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.759
<v Speaker 1>Neville is really ahead of him, ahead of him. Yeah,

570
00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:55.720
<v Speaker 1>and then it all gets turned on its head later.

571
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Obviously Nevill's murdered people so far, but he just becomes

572
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:01.759
<v Speaker 2>such a dick at this point. Like even the way

573
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:05.960
<v Speaker 2>he says bedwomb like really takes the piss out.

574
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Of it, is very unlikable.

575
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he's pretty much admitted at this point that

576
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.759
<v Speaker 2>he has murdered his granddad in all but saying it.

577
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you always know whenever someone says, why don't you

578
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.559
<v Speaker 1>prove it? You always know that they're basically just admitting it.

579
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:23.440
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I did enjoy the bit about how you

580
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:24.880
<v Speaker 2>can't patent magic tricks though.

581
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's interesting.

582
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.079
<v Speaker 2>So David Copperfield, a lot of his tricks got figured

583
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.759
<v Speaker 2>out because people worked out how when he patented them,

584
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:36.200
<v Speaker 2>certain bits of them. I guess under fake names and

585
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.000
<v Speaker 2>like all sorts of stuff. So you can't because the

586
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.920
<v Speaker 2>amount of patents that exist, actually finding it would be impossible,

587
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:44.400
<v Speaker 2>but people have like how he does the flying thing

588
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.279
<v Speaker 2>and various tricks he has patented, so you can work

589
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.839
<v Speaker 2>it out from that. But yeah, it's it's interesting that

590
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:53.000
<v Speaker 2>you you kind of just have to hope that no

591
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.519
<v Speaker 2>one works it out because there's nothing then to stop

592
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:58.640
<v Speaker 2>anyone from doing themselves if you haven't patented it.

593
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:02.319
<v Speaker 1>It's a very serious thing, this whole Magic Circle, the

594
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.119
<v Speaker 1>Magician's Code and all that isn't it.

595
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very seriously. Yeah, you see that you Scott a

596
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:10.559
<v Speaker 2>message from the Magic Circle. Oh no, they sent him

597
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:13.160
<v Speaker 2>a letter afterwards saying how much they enjoyed it. Oh nice,

598
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.559
<v Speaker 2>and like thanks for like you know, treating it so

599
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.880
<v Speaker 2>properly and like, you know, respectfully. Yeah, respectfully, that's and

600
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.200
<v Speaker 2>not taking the mickey out of it. I'm not more certain,

601
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:25.000
<v Speaker 2>not in a mean way anyway.

602
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:28.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, but that's like you said about it, that

603
00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:31.240
<v Speaker 1>he did for magic what Steve did for Crosswords in

604
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.640
<v Speaker 1>the other episode, so you know, it's it's something he

605
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:35.960
<v Speaker 1>cares deeply about, so it makes sense.

606
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

607
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.319
<v Speaker 1>So Gabriel leaves after having accused him of murder. And

608
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.240
<v Speaker 1>I think Nevil's a bit shaken because you know, to

609
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.440
<v Speaker 1>have to have this happen, to have this the grandson

610
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:49.640
<v Speaker 1>of this person who murdered come and say I know

611
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:50.200
<v Speaker 1>you did it.

612
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Plus like you'd expect that in the first few months,

613
00:27:54.440 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 2>but when it's got to nine years later, you've probably

614
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:57.160
<v Speaker 2>thought I've got away with it.

615
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:00.640
<v Speaker 1>I think you're safe yea yeah.

616
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:01.759
<v Speaker 2>And then someone says this, you know, okay, I'm never

617
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:03.640
<v Speaker 2>going to be safe, Like if this can come up

618
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.200
<v Speaker 2>nine years later, it could happen anytime.

619
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.279
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the lesson is don't murder someone.

620
00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, it's always a good Yeah. It's much easier

621
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:14.119
<v Speaker 2>when you don't.

622
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:18.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it is. Yeah. So yeah. He goes over as

623
00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:21.759
<v Speaker 1>the little pads where he very obviously wrote something down

624
00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:25.000
<v Speaker 1>earlier in invisible well in wax I guess or was

625
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:26.880
<v Speaker 1>it just an impression on the paper?

626
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:28.279
<v Speaker 2>I think it was just an impression through go on

627
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:30.440
<v Speaker 2>to the next year paper, yeah.

628
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.119
<v Speaker 1>And he founds out that he's written down this word

629
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.440
<v Speaker 1>mount weasel, which he doesn't ye know. So he's then

630
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:38.039
<v Speaker 1>on skype to Jenny.

631
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:39.519
<v Speaker 2>We have an awkward explanation.

632
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:44.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and apparently her hotel has been receiving dodgy messages Yeah,

633
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.400
<v Speaker 1>supposedly from Neville, Yes, which he has no memory of doing.

634
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Nope. On a first watch it, it does come across

635
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:56.000
<v Speaker 2>quite creepy, like what's happening here? I guess it's it

636
00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:59.119
<v Speaker 2>is lucky for the plot. Another coincidence that she didn't

637
00:28:59.160 --> 00:28:59.680
<v Speaker 2>take the calls.

638
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:01.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

639
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how it would have worked if she'd.

640
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.079
<v Speaker 1>Answered yeah, that's true, unless.

641
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:09.359
<v Speaker 2>Unless he's following her and knows that she's not in.

642
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:13.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or unless he's just phoning reception and just abusing them,

643
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:15.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, in the name of Neville.

644
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.240
<v Speaker 2>True, you know true? Yeah, Because he's such a he's

645
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:20.000
<v Speaker 2>such a dick of a character, Neville, that you could

646
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:21.839
<v Speaker 2>just be like, do you know who I am? And

647
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:25.839
<v Speaker 2>like make out very easily that you're pretending to be him.

648
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Yea. So she knows what a mount weasel is yes,

649
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 1>and explains it's a copyright trap.

650
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:37.119
<v Speaker 2>M This made me wonder, like, so if they put

651
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.279
<v Speaker 2>these things in encyclopedias quite regularly to check if people

652
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 2>are stealing stuff, how many people are learning fake facts? Well? Yeah,

653
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.880
<v Speaker 2>going out saying that X means why but it doesn't.

654
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:49.880
<v Speaker 1>I suppose it must. They must have to make it

655
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:55.319
<v Speaker 1>something so obscure and inconsequential. Yeah, but yeah, it is

656
00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:56.079
<v Speaker 1>a good point.

657
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:58.000
<v Speaker 2>It's the same with the whole trap street thing.

658
00:29:58.079 --> 00:29:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Matt.

659
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:01.000
<v Speaker 2>If someone ends up wanting to get between two different

660
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.119
<v Speaker 2>places and that street doesn't exist and they get.

661
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:09.160
<v Speaker 1>Lost, yeah, oh well thanks to me them. So once

662
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.759
<v Speaker 1>again he's rattled by this. He thinks, oh my god,

663
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.799
<v Speaker 1>does that mean Willi Wando left something in his notebook

664
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:17.720
<v Speaker 1>that could incriminate him? But I don't know what. I mean,

665
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:19.680
<v Speaker 1>what could that be? How can you apply Mount Weazel

666
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.039
<v Speaker 1>to a notebook of magic trick ideas? I don't really

667
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:23.440
<v Speaker 1>get that.

668
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:25.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but I guess it doesn't matter. It's

669
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:27.799
<v Speaker 2>just planting the seed that something could have happened.

670
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:28.960
<v Speaker 1>There could be something. Yeah.

671
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but so he's obviously killed Willie Wando. He's took

672
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.200
<v Speaker 2>his book. Has he then just transcribed his book? I thought, so, yeah,

673
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.240
<v Speaker 2>and given it back because I'm just a bit confused

674
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.359
<v Speaker 2>as to what happened to the book. Oh yeah, and

675
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:49.039
<v Speaker 2>Willie's body I guess presumerly just disappeared. But if his book,

676
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:51.880
<v Speaker 2>if he disappeared and presumably all of his stuff disappeared

677
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:53.839
<v Speaker 2>along with him that he had on him. Why did

678
00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:55.079
<v Speaker 2>he bother copying out the book?

679
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:56.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know.

680
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:00.319
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really get that, because he makes a point

681
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:01.759
<v Speaker 2>of as soon as he's killed him, he takes the

682
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:02.640
<v Speaker 2>book and he starts copying.

683
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he starts copying over. Yeah.

684
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:06.440
<v Speaker 2>After this mount Reel thing, he burns those pages.

685
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:08.240
<v Speaker 1>So what happened to the original?

686
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because presumably you wouldn't ever want the risk that

687
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.440
<v Speaker 2>if because that would be the worst thing. If so,

688
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:16.559
<v Speaker 2>he's had to dump the body somewhere. He dumped the

689
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:19.400
<v Speaker 2>body along with the notebook. Someone finds it, finds the

690
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.279
<v Speaker 2>notebook signs this guy's performing the tricks that apparently only

691
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:25.799
<v Speaker 2>listed in this notebook. That's pretty clear evidence that he's

692
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:26.799
<v Speaker 2>somebody should be talking to.

693
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

694
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really understand the point of the notebook being copied.

695
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I didn't have an answer for that. I have

696
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:33.759
<v Speaker 1>no idea.

697
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:37.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So he decides at that point to I guess

698
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.319
<v Speaker 2>he's wiping the security footage as well, because Gabriel was there,

699
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and if he does have something on him, he doesn't

700
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:45.720
<v Speaker 2>want evidence that he's spoken to him.

701
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:48.519
<v Speaker 1>For some reason, I thought it was because the camera

702
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:50.319
<v Speaker 1>was pointing at the safe where he was about to

703
00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:52.640
<v Speaker 1>put the code in, and he didn't want the code

704
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:53.720
<v Speaker 1>to be recorded.

705
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, I thought that. I assumed that was the reason

706
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.960
<v Speaker 2>why he turned the cameras off but deleting the footage.

707
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I assumed it was because he was there

708
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and he didn't want proof that, you know. Yeah, probably

709
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.759
<v Speaker 2>that he'd tan't amount to omitted it on video. Yeah,

710
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:12.920
<v Speaker 2>exactly with my guess. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, he

711
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.119
<v Speaker 2>takes out the pages, burns them, which I'm surprised he

712
00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:17.359
<v Speaker 2>hasn't done before really, because it's been nine years. He

713
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>probably knows all of what's in that notebook inside out

714
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:20.839
<v Speaker 2>and backwards by now, that's true.

715
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a dangerous piece of evidence.

716
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess it just adds to his whole He's

717
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:28.839
<v Speaker 2>a cocky asshole. He is the character. Maybe there were

718
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:31.359
<v Speaker 2>other tricks in there that he'd not finished, that he'd

719
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:34.559
<v Speaker 2>not worked out the rest of yet. Possibly will he

720
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:37.039
<v Speaker 2>hadn't finished making them and he hadn't finished working out

721
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.880
<v Speaker 2>how they worked. Yeah, maybe then he has another go

722
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:43.240
<v Speaker 2>at the chair trick for no real reason whatsoever.

723
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So it's the next day yeah, yeah, I don't

724
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.519
<v Speaker 1>know why. Maybe it's just because Willie Willy's on his mind.

725
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:56.839
<v Speaker 1>I know the feeling, that's why he doesn't care, that's

726
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:02.000
<v Speaker 1>why he's said yeah, and the police turn up to

727
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:02.720
<v Speaker 1>question him.

728
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

729
00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Do I Houston indeed, who I thought looked like he'd

730
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:08.599
<v Speaker 1>stepped out of his own ITV drama.

731
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:14.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's the new Death in Paradise person. Yeah, that

732
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:16.039
<v Speaker 2>programs like the Sugar Babes. I feel we're all going

733
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.559
<v Speaker 2>to get a call to be the chief inspector person

734
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:26.720
<v Speaker 2>in at some point. It's like jury duty. Yeah, yeah,

735
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:29.680
<v Speaker 2>so do I Houston asked where he's been, and he

736
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.400
<v Speaker 2>categorically says that he's been there the whole time. M M.

737
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:37.279
<v Speaker 2>Someone matching his wife's description has died, and Neville just

738
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:38.359
<v Speaker 2>does not seem to routely.

739
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Cas hasn't seem bothered.

740
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:43.640
<v Speaker 2>He's like, right, okay, and this he's just like, oh,

741
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:46.559
<v Speaker 2>she matches her description, doesn't mean it's her. Maybe he's

742
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:49.079
<v Speaker 2>just the shock of it, isn't registering that it's actually real.

743
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:52.319
<v Speaker 1>Maybe possibly it was a very bizarre moment.

744
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to give him some sort of crediting, with

745
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:56.839
<v Speaker 2>some sort of reasoning here but.

746
00:33:57.400 --> 00:33:59.200
<v Speaker 1>I think, to be honest, I think it just goes

747
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:02.680
<v Speaker 1>towards him being an even more unlikable character. You just think, well,

748
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:05.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, he he doesn't care about anyone but himself,

749
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:06.200
<v Speaker 1>even his own wife.

750
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I guess I struggled to think though, how you could

751
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:10.000
<v Speaker 2>not care at all?

752
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:11.440
<v Speaker 1>It is weird.

753
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:13.519
<v Speaker 2>I guess that's just him.

754
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's that. And I think it's also

755
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.239
<v Speaker 1>the fact that, obviously police turn up and start asking

756
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:21.000
<v Speaker 1>the questions, with all that's been going on, he automatically assumes,

757
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.280
<v Speaker 1>oh shit, I'm about to go down for murder. True,

758
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.840
<v Speaker 1>that is all that's on his mind. So maybe when

759
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:26.960
<v Speaker 1>they start telling him about his wife, it's more relief

760
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:29.119
<v Speaker 1>that actually it's not that true.

761
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a good point.

762
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.559
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, yeah still, and if he.

763
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Thought about it for a little bit, he probably would be.

764
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.719
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, and conveniently he can't prove his alibi because

765
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:39.159
<v Speaker 1>he's just deleted all the footage.

766
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, fuck it.

767
00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:45.199
<v Speaker 1>And I just I just love this when you realize

768
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:49.960
<v Speaker 1>what's been going on. Yeah, and that he's been completely played. Yeah,

769
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.760
<v Speaker 1>he thought he was getting one step ahead of him,

770
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:54.719
<v Speaker 1>but this other guy was like ten steps ahead of him.

771
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, every eventuality was worked out. Ye, Heuston gets him

772
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:02.280
<v Speaker 2>to admit that he's the only person that knows the code. Yeah,

773
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:04.760
<v Speaker 2>there's no possible way anything that's in the safe could

774
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:06.800
<v Speaker 2>have any other explanation than he put it.

775
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:10.519
<v Speaker 1>There, which is like a magic trick in itself, isn't it. Yes,

776
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.559
<v Speaker 1>you know when the magician says to you about you

777
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:14.639
<v Speaker 1>know you're the only one who knows what's on this

778
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:15.280
<v Speaker 1>piece of paper.

779
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like magic. Like oh, like a Jonathan Creek

780
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.679
<v Speaker 2>type like locked room thing.

781
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:23.960
<v Speaker 1>So we get the reveal that Gabriel got the safe

782
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.599
<v Speaker 1>combination by the same tracking chip that's in the pen.

783
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:29.440
<v Speaker 1>There's also one in the ring that he, by sleight

784
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.840
<v Speaker 1>of hand, he stole and then swapped over. Yeah, this

785
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.400
<v Speaker 1>was an example of very convenient stuff. I thought, like

786
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:38.920
<v Speaker 1>the fact that he knew he'd be where, I mean,

787
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>does he always wear that exact same ring, and that

788
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:43.039
<v Speaker 1>he could get an identical copy.

789
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.719
<v Speaker 2>I guess so he's probably that arsoly type person that

790
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:48.599
<v Speaker 2>would have talked about, oh I bought this ring for

791
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:51.400
<v Speaker 2>X number one thousand from such and such and made

792
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:53.239
<v Speaker 2>a big deal of what it is. Maybe I guess

793
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:55.400
<v Speaker 2>that's how he would have done that bit, but the

794
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.039
<v Speaker 2>fact that it's loose enough that he could palm it.

795
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Like if he'd failed to steal it, to pickpocket it properly,

796
00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:04.840
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing collapses.

797
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And what if he'd not been wearing it that day.

798
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:10.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, he's just been doing the washing up taking

799
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:10.519
<v Speaker 2>it off.

800
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And it's quite convenient as well that he wears

801
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:15.880
<v Speaker 1>it on his right index finger, the very finger that

802
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:16.719
<v Speaker 1>he's going to use.

803
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:17.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

804
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:19.239
<v Speaker 1>A lot of it's down to chance.

805
00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The more I mean, I know, it's TV and

806
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:24.239
<v Speaker 2>it's like, yeah, the boring stories don't get made. But

807
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.679
<v Speaker 2>like we see the permutation where it doesn't work. But

808
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:29.760
<v Speaker 2>the other thing for me is that's just tracking his

809
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:33.480
<v Speaker 2>finger movement. How is he like narrowed down which part

810
00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:35.920
<v Speaker 2>of his hand moving for the next you know, several

811
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 2>hours to being the bit where he put the code in.

812
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's a good point. His finger's moving all over

813
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 1>the room, all over the place.

814
00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's always moving. How has he narrowed it down

815
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:48.719
<v Speaker 2>to those little little gestures? Yeah?

816
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Convenient but a cool reveal.

817
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And the best bit is that like he'll know

818
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Neville knows what's happened, and he knows he's been set up,

819
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.840
<v Speaker 2>can't say anything because his own alibi is his own

820
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.239
<v Speaker 2>evidence for a different crime exactly.

821
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.320
<v Speaker 1>That's why it's so genius. Yeah, and so Gabriel's got

822
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:13.239
<v Speaker 1>back at him by obviously doing something just as bad,

823
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.239
<v Speaker 1>but he gets the satisfaction of knowing that he's going

824
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:16.960
<v Speaker 1>to go away for it.

825
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But the problem with these sorts of things that

826
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:23.880
<v Speaker 2>whether you have you have some sort of retribution, and

827
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.199
<v Speaker 2>it's always some innocent person that has to die. And

828
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 2>like poor Jenny, Like what does she do wrong?

829
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:29.199
<v Speaker 1>No?

830
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Nothing, like at least at least Willie was like, you know,

831
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:34.480
<v Speaker 2>he had a reason for killing him, Like, yeah, she

832
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:38.440
<v Speaker 2>just happened to be collateral damage here. Apparently considered putting

833
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Jenny's head in the safe originally but thought it was

834
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:43.880
<v Speaker 2>too like deadline, so decided that or have.

835
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Done that Okay, yeah the microwave. Yeah, so what do

836
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:49.719
<v Speaker 1>we think?

837
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.639
<v Speaker 2>I right, there are a lot of coincidences, but then

838
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:54.360
<v Speaker 2>there always are in these sorts of things. I guess

839
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:57.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. To me, it didn't quite hit as

840
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:01.360
<v Speaker 2>well because I love magic and I've read up on

841
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:03.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot of stuff, so it didn't. I saw a

842
00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:07.039
<v Speaker 2>lot of it coming, I think, right, okay, which is unfortunate,

843
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.840
<v Speaker 2>but I still really enjoyed it. I didn't. I thought

844
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:11.719
<v Speaker 2>the characters it was too. It was a little bit

845
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:15.400
<v Speaker 2>more plot heavy than character, and therefore the characters end

846
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:16.719
<v Speaker 2>up feeling a little bit like cogs.

847
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, I understand that they.

848
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:22.519
<v Speaker 2>Didn't really have as much agency and as much they

849
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.039
<v Speaker 2>weren't as well rounded as they are in some other episodes.

850
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:27.599
<v Speaker 2>Believable because there's a.

851
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Lot of money, see of events to sort of to

852
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.760
<v Speaker 1>get in, so I suppose they've just been more energy

853
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:36.519
<v Speaker 1>on that than yeah, characters, but yeah.

854
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I know we always say there's you know, not the

855
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.119
<v Speaker 2>line wasted kind of thing, but often there is just

856
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:42.960
<v Speaker 2>jokey bits that build a character up, exactly, Yeah, whereas

857
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.079
<v Speaker 2>here everything seemed to be very important for the plot.

858
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, onto rating it, yes, please?

859
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hmmm, I think I go with seven.

860
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's that's quite good. Yeah. I think I felt similarly,

861
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:03.360
<v Speaker 1>and I've written down the six so yeah, I think

862
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:07.360
<v Speaker 1>it's it's enjoyable, very good, very clever, very clever with

863
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:08.239
<v Speaker 1>the twist and everything.

864
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Yep, and as you said, emblematic of the whole series

865
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:14.480
<v Speaker 2>and that exactly. Yeah, and that was a big question.

866
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Did you spot the hair?

867
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:16.159
<v Speaker 1>I did?

868
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Well done.

869
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:19.519
<v Speaker 1>You can go quite near the beginning. I saw it

870
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:23.559
<v Speaker 1>on the draws, near where Willie puts his phone. Yeah,

871
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 1>you can see it behind them when they're talking whom

872
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:28.840
<v Speaker 1>I got one?

873
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I got one. You might win at the quiz, but

874
00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I'll win at these. And did you spot our hair

875
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:39.320
<v Speaker 2>at home? We shall let you know where it was

876
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:39.880
<v Speaker 2>next week.

877
00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:42.679
<v Speaker 1>We'll have to let you know next week. But yes, yeah,

878
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.360
<v Speaker 1>fun episode, Yeah, a fun episode.

879
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Indeed, it's a step up from last week, definitely, or

880
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:49.519
<v Speaker 2>several steps in my opinion.

881
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:55.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, very different. We got a really nice review on

882
00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts that I just wanted to share. This comes

883
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:01.159
<v Speaker 1>from Zach and it says five this is genuinely one

884
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:03.079
<v Speaker 1>of my favorite podcasts I've listened to and one that

885
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.119
<v Speaker 1>I look forward to every week. It's quite hard to

886
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:07.400
<v Speaker 1>find a great podcast about this incredible show, but I'm

887
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:10.360
<v Speaker 1>so happy I found this one. The show is informative, funny,

888
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:12.239
<v Speaker 1>and just a great time all throughout its run time.

889
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:14.719
<v Speaker 1>So excited for what's to come in twenty twenty six.

890
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys for being amazing and keep up the

891
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:17.360
<v Speaker 1>great work.

892
00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh thanks sach lovely.

893
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:23.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's very sweet. We always do appreciate, we do

894
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:27.119
<v Speaker 1>feedback and just yeah, knowing that people enjoy.

895
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that people are listening. To be honest, exactly

896
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:31.679
<v Speaker 2>when someone's listening.

897
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But yeah, we're back next week.

898
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.679
<v Speaker 2>We will for what we got next week, thinking out loud.

899
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Indeed, we'll see you then. But for now, I think

900
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:43.880
<v Speaker 1>it's time to close the door on number nine.

901
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.840
<v Speaker 2>But you never leave, do you.

902
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to the Ninth Degree. If you'd like

903
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:56.239
<v Speaker 1>to get in touch, you can find us on Instagram, Twitter,

904
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:59.679
<v Speaker 1>and TikTok at ninth Degree Pod, or email us at

905
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.079
<v Speaker 1>n degree pod at gmail dot com. You can also

906
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.400
<v Speaker 1>leave us a rating or a review wherever you get

907
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:06.239
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts.