Speaker 1: You see them in the videos for Who Can It
Speaker 1: Be Now and Down Under where they're goofing around and
Speaker 1: they look at they're like having such a good time
Speaker 1: at their friends and their buddies. But Colin says that
Speaker 1: it was pretty much at that time that it was
Speaker 1: clear to him that this was a band that was
Speaker 1: not gonna last very long. That PROCs were showing already.
Speaker 2: We're totally bummed rock and roll.
Speaker 1: I mean gotta leave you. You're reading Little Hands says
Speaker 1: it's time to rock and roll.
Speaker 2: Rock Up, I totally booked. Welcome back to book Down
Speaker 2: Rock conversations with authors, musicians, and insiders revealing the stories
Speaker 2: behind classic rocks, greatest songs, albums and artists. I'm Eric Senach.
Speaker 2: Before we get started. If you'd like to support the podcast,
Speaker 2: get episodes commercial free, sign up for the Backstage Pass
Speaker 2: from Patreon for just five dollars a month. Link in
Speaker 2: the show notesory you can go to book down Rock
Speaker 2: dot com. Now onto our guest, a returning guest, a
Speaker 2: Book Down Rock Hall of famer Greg Prater, who has
Speaker 2: a brand new book out titled Down Under The Men
Speaker 2: at Work in Colin Hayes's story. Greg. Welcome, backward to
Speaker 2: see you again? All right, Hello, everybody knows the name
Speaker 2: Men at Work, but we know little to nothing about
Speaker 2: their formative years. What became of them? Why do you
Speaker 2: think that is? Is there a lack of interest or
Speaker 2: have the band members been unwilling to talk about it
Speaker 2: other than Colin.
Speaker 1: You know, it's very strange because if you think about it,
Speaker 1: they were probably one of the most visual or most
Speaker 1: seen bands early on in MTV, with the videos for
Speaker 1: who Can It Be? Now, down Under, Bego Johnny. Also,
Speaker 1: of course, the ballad Overkill was also a very popular
Speaker 1: video on MTV. So it's funny how they were probably
Speaker 1: one of the most visual bands, the most covered bands
Speaker 1: of the time, and yet they just disappeared like pretty quickly,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, from in nineteen eighty three they
Speaker 1: played the US Festival just below headliners the Clash on
Speaker 1: the US Festival's New Waved and within about two or
Speaker 1: three years, two or three years later, they're just totally gone,
Speaker 1: finished and forgotten, which is very difficult to do, I
Speaker 1: mean with a band that was that covered and that successful,
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean, you know, it's also people
Speaker 1: know the songs, but like they don't know like, for instance,
Speaker 1: Colin Hay's name necessarily, so like they'll know men at work.
Speaker 1: They may even know Business as Usual as the album,
Speaker 1: but you mentioned Colin Hay or Greg Ham, Aron Striker
Speaker 1: and they're like who you know?
Speaker 2: Right, So it's yes, this is a band who also
Speaker 2: won a Grammy Best New.
Speaker 1: Artist exactly, and Colin a has a funny thing he's
Speaker 1: gone on records saying it's the nineteen eighty three Best
Speaker 1: New Artist Award aka Kiss of Death Award. Because right
Speaker 1: after that their career well after that, they still had
Speaker 1: some success with their second album, Cargo, which some people
Speaker 1: tend to point to that as a sophomore slump album,
Speaker 1: and it really wasn't. It was a very very good
Speaker 1: album and it did have hits on it, just that
Speaker 1: the problem with that, which I talked about in the book,
Speaker 1: they rush released it because people, some people don't know
Speaker 1: Business as Usual came out in nineteen eighty one in
Speaker 1: their native land of Australia, it didn't come out to
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two here in the States. So what they
Speaker 1: wanted to do is they wanted to show that they
Speaker 1: still had an allegiance to their homeland. So even so
Speaker 1: Business as Usual hits in the US in like late
Speaker 1: eighty two is when it starts its number one run
Speaker 1: of I believe fifteen consecutive weeks, which is insane if
Speaker 1: you think about it. But even before that starts, they're
Speaker 1: already I think they already finished work on their second
Speaker 1: album because they wanted to put it out, meaning like
Speaker 1: judging from the timeline of when it came out in Australia,
Speaker 1: so that was a year before the US. Really what
Speaker 1: should have been done, and this is what even Colin
Speaker 1: Hay admits now looking back, they should have waited and
Speaker 1: not put out Cargo so quickly. They put out Cargo.
Speaker 1: I think when Business as Usual was either still number
Speaker 1: one or it was definitely still in the top ten.
Speaker 1: I know that. And there was even like a period
Speaker 1: of time where Business as Usual was above Cargo in
Speaker 1: the top ten or even on like the charts. So
Speaker 1: it was not wise to yes, So it just wasn't
Speaker 1: wise to put it out so fast, is what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say.
Speaker 2: The opening chapter is about Colin Hay before the band
Speaker 2: even exists, so let's talk about that. Where's he from?
Speaker 2: He had a dad who owned a record store, so
Speaker 2: that was an advantage for him.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's from Scotland originally, and they had to move
Speaker 1: eventually because he had a I believe, he says, a
Speaker 1: wheezing problem. I guess he had either allergies or something
Speaker 1: like that. So I think just as he was about
Speaker 1: to be a teenage turned to turn into a teenager
Speaker 1: around that time. But he had already discovered the Beatles
Speaker 1: and his father owned a music store. He sold instruments
Speaker 1: and they also sold records. So Colin says how he
Speaker 1: always felt like he had a little bit of an
Speaker 1: in because he would always get the records. He would
Speaker 1: always hear the records before all his school chums would
Speaker 1: hear them. So he'd hear the Beatles and the Kinks
Speaker 1: and the Who and all these great and the Stones,
Speaker 1: all these classic records and bands before the public would
Speaker 1: actually hear it. So and that's when he starts learning guitar.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't I think until he moved to Australia
Speaker 1: that he and I think he moved right around I
Speaker 1: believe it was right around the time of Sergeant Pepper
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, because he says that's an album
Speaker 1: that always reminds him of like the Move and that
Speaker 1: was an album that really left the lasting impression on him.
Speaker 1: I think inspired him to start taking music more seriously
Speaker 1: and that's when we started playing with bands, and by
Speaker 1: the early seventies he's in pub rock bands, playing pubs
Speaker 1: and also hotels in Australia at the time there were
Speaker 1: a lot of pub rock type things and hotels to play.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know if I mentioned already. Yes,
Speaker 1: So from Scotland they moved to Australia where the weather
Speaker 1: where they moved was a little bit better, you know,
Speaker 1: so just to help his health problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where he meets Ron Striker. They so all
Speaker 2: this begins as those two guys an acoustic duo. So
Speaker 2: how did they meet and then how does the rest
Speaker 2: of the band meant at work come together?
Speaker 1: Yang, they just met just through playing music the local scene.
Speaker 1: I know that Colin Hay meets Greg Ham, who's the
Speaker 1: floutist and also saxophone player, through mutual friends. I think
Speaker 1: he even met Greg Ham before Ron Striker, before he
Speaker 1: met Ron Striker. But yeah, Ron Striker he meets in
Speaker 1: the early to mid seventies and they're not playing rock music.
Speaker 1: They're not playing rock music. They're playing acoustic folk type
Speaker 1: stuff and I think they were really into. Some of
Speaker 1: the bands he lists that he really liked were I
Speaker 1: think Steely Dan. He also liked Nick Drake, who is
Speaker 1: a underrated folk singer guitarist who has a tragic tale.
Speaker 1: He died early on from a drug overdose. But he
Speaker 1: became kind of like a cult figure after his passing
Speaker 1: and he has a whole moon fans. Yes, exactly, great song, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: they started playing together a bit and then by the
Speaker 1: late seventies they were in a they got involved in
Speaker 1: a musical, some like Obscure Musical in Australia, and then
Speaker 1: one by one, through also going to college, they met
Speaker 1: other people. They met the bassis, they met the drummer,
Speaker 1: and then Men at Work slowly forms and again it's
Speaker 1: playing hotels primarily and also clubs. There was like a
Speaker 1: whole circuit around the whole Melbourne area. And yeah, by
Speaker 1: seventy nine eighty they were so big that they had
Speaker 1: to stop playing hotels because it was too small for them.
Speaker 2: The name Men at Work, it's become iconic. Its origin
Speaker 2: is very simple.
Speaker 1: Right, pretty simple. Yeah, For a while they would be
Speaker 1: playing and they didn't have a name. It would just
Speaker 1: say Tonight and Colin or Colin and Ron until I
Speaker 1: forget who suggested men at work. I think it may
Speaker 1: have been someone who worked at a one of the
Speaker 1: hotels or bars that they were playing at, and they
Speaker 1: just kind of like the whole men at work thing
Speaker 1: because similar to the US, you'd always see these men
Speaker 1: at work signs with you know, people working on roads
Speaker 1: and construction and things like that. So that, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess, just made sense for them at the time,
Speaker 1: So why not, right.
Speaker 2: And it was fitting and they were working hard, right,
Speaker 2: they were playing constantly.
Speaker 1: Constantly, Yes, yeah, yeah, they were a very hard working
Speaker 1: band and that's what pretty much made them so tight,
Speaker 1: and that's what improved these songs. You know, when you're
Speaker 1: playing every night. That is what Colin says too. You
Speaker 1: get instant grad you get instant feedback from the crowd,
Speaker 1: you're playing in front of what works, what doesn't work.
Speaker 1: And he says something interesting too that I think to
Speaker 1: him he quickly realized that he wrote the best songs
Speaker 1: of the band. That he said there was like going
Speaker 1: into it, it was going to be a democracy. So
Speaker 1: if anyone had a new song they would play it
Speaker 1: in front of a band. But then he realized, at
Speaker 1: one point, we're just kind of wasting time with these
Speaker 1: other songs that aren't going anywhere, whereas he was the
Speaker 1: one that was writing all the songs that eventually became
Speaker 1: the classics. So you know, he does have a point
Speaker 1: that you know, it was it's almost like similar to
Speaker 1: the Police with you know, Sting is this insanely talented,
Speaker 1: prolific songwriter. You have Andy Summers and Stuart Copland who
Speaker 1: are also very talented, and there wrote some you know,
Speaker 1: good songs for the Police, but there's a it's a
Speaker 1: quantum leap what Sting is writing compared to what Andy
Speaker 1: Summers and also Stuart Copland is writing. And that was
Speaker 1: similar to all so the setup within men at work
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Then Colin tells you in the interviews that you've done
Speaker 2: with him, he could tell early on that the cracks
Speaker 2: start to show, even early in that first year or two.
Speaker 1: To me just as a fan at the time, and like,
Speaker 1: looking back, it's like so weird. You know, you see
Speaker 1: them in the videos for who Can It Be Now
Speaker 1: and down Under where they're goofing around and they look
Speaker 1: at they're like having such a time that their friends
Speaker 1: and their buddies. But yeah, Colin says that it was
Speaker 1: pretty much at that time that it was clear to
Speaker 1: him that this was a band that was not gonna
Speaker 1: last very long. That cracks were showing already. It seems
Speaker 1: like him and Greg Hamm were the closest ron striker
Speaker 1: in him. It seemed like they started to kind of
Speaker 1: gradually drift apart, and the bassist and the drummer they
Speaker 1: had a whole other viewpoint of how the business should
Speaker 1: be run and who they were kind of saying that
Speaker 1: certain band members should be fired and like all it.
Speaker 1: And they also didn't like the fact that Men at
Speaker 1: Works manager was a old college friend of Collins, who granted,
Speaker 1: it's a gentleman whose name right now escapes me, but
Speaker 1: he didn't go on. I give him credit that he
Speaker 1: did a good job managing Men at Work because they
Speaker 1: their career skyrocketed, but he never went on to do
Speaker 1: anything after Men at Work. So the bassist in the
Speaker 1: saying we got to get rid of him and get
Speaker 1: a real manager, and Colin Hey puts his foot down
Speaker 1: and says, no, I don't I want to stay with
Speaker 1: this manager, and that was also a main reason why
Speaker 1: they broke up is there was like a whole the
Speaker 1: bassist and also drummer. Well, I should say the bassist
Speaker 1: name is John Reese and the drummer's name is Jerry Spiser.
Speaker 1: I should put that there. But yeah, the manager he
Speaker 1: uh yeah, So Colin sticks by the manager and then
Speaker 1: by Cargo, they're already drifting apart. And then after the
Speaker 1: Cargo tour is over, the bassist and the drummer are
Speaker 1: excused from the band.
Speaker 2: That crazy, I mean, none of none of us knew
Speaker 2: that that was going on. You're watching on MTV. Just
Speaker 2: like you said, they seem like they're all get along great. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Alb's blowing up. Everything's good, right, I mean yeah.
Speaker 1: But it just it's so baffling why even like the
Speaker 1: manager wouldn't have been like look, just like let's say
Speaker 1: it's the same with of course, Van Hallen is the
Speaker 1: biggest example of this, Like, guys, just sit down, let's
Speaker 1: talk this over, let's work this out. Fine, you're not
Speaker 1: getting along, you know, we're gonna take two months off
Speaker 1: just we're doing nothing for two months. Just leave and
Speaker 1: we're gonna come back in two months and we're gonna
Speaker 1: work this out, you know, or like to use Van
Speaker 1: Helen as an example, like you know, Eddie and Dave.
Speaker 1: I want you guys just to go away for the
Speaker 1: weekend together someplace. I want you to work at your differences.
Speaker 1: Come back. When you finally work things out, we're gonna
Speaker 1: pick you know, I just little you know things like that,
Speaker 1: or you know, it just seems like it could have
Speaker 1: been worked out so easily, but who knows, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess age has to do it. They were young
Speaker 1: at the time. You don't. Maybe you think it's you know, well,
Speaker 1: we were this successful once. I'll you know, Colin maybe
Speaker 1: was thinking, oh, I could just launch a solo career
Speaker 1: and I'll have just as much success, you know, or
Speaker 1: the men at work rhythm sections like oh, we'll just
Speaker 1: you know, pick up where with some other band or
Speaker 1: you know, something like that. But of course it's very
Speaker 1: difficult when you get that type of chemistry within a
Speaker 1: band and you know, the friction, and sometimes it's not
Speaker 1: pleasant to be in a band with friction. But that's
Speaker 1: what makes your Police so great, your Van Allen's so great,
Speaker 1: the Ramones so great. Is that friction, you.
Speaker 2: Know, the Cricketer's Arms. I was looking through the skinning
Speaker 2: through the book, I was trying to remember the name
Speaker 2: of the club that that was the big place there
Speaker 2: where they really worked on perfecting their their sound and
Speaker 2: and really gelling as a band, The Cricketer's Arms. So
Speaker 2: if anybody who's listening from Australia right now or watching,
Speaker 2: I'm sure they recognize that name.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And if if you ever get the chance
Speaker 1: going YouTube, there's an interesting clip that I came across
Speaker 1: while I was doing research for the book, Greg Ham
Speaker 1: and also Colin Hey, go back and visit it around
Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty five, like right around the time they
Speaker 1: put out their third album, Two Hearts, and it's a
Speaker 1: little little tiny like bar. You know, it's pretty crazy
Speaker 1: to think that a band like men at work that.
Speaker 1: Just a few years later again they were opening up
Speaker 1: for Fleetwood Mac, opening up for David Bowie and then
Speaker 1: of course their second only Below the Clash at the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three OZ Festival on the New Wave Night.
Speaker 2: Three twenty seven Punt Road, Richmond, Victoria. You even got
Speaker 2: that in the book.
Speaker 1: Sounds right, yes, sounds great.
Speaker 2: Did your homework all right?
Speaker 1: So the Davit.
Speaker 2: The debut album Business as Usual, huge commercial and critical success.
Speaker 2: Here's some stats here. Released November ninth, nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 2: it spent fifteen weeks at number one in the US
Speaker 2: Billboard two hundred from late eighty two into early nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty three, five weeks at number one in the UK
Speaker 2: and early eighty three who Could It Be? Now? And
Speaker 2: down Under both number one singles in the US. Surprising
Speaker 2: to learn how personal who Can It Be?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Was compared to how humorous it sounds?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: What's the story behind that?
Speaker 1: Kyle Hey says he was living in a flat, which
Speaker 1: is another word for a apartment, and he was unemployed.
Speaker 1: But there was some He talks about this in the book,
Speaker 1: that there was some kind of slight scam that you know,
Speaker 1: they were playing in a band and making money, but
Speaker 1: it was probably either paid in cash so you didn't
Speaker 1: really have to report it to the attacks man. But
Speaker 1: then he didn't. He wasn't working to also get like
Speaker 1: I guess, unemployment checks on top of it, so he
Speaker 1: was always paranoid. Whenever we would hear people coming up
Speaker 1: the door, knocking on his door, there was maybe going
Speaker 1: to be someone checking to see if he was pulling
Speaker 1: a scam or if he was looking for work or
Speaker 1: something like that. He also talks about that there was
Speaker 1: a gentleman that lived right across the hallway from him
Speaker 1: that he that he thinks may have been selling drugs.
Speaker 1: So he would also get knocks at the door for
Speaker 1: people looking for that guy, which he again thinks it
Speaker 1: may have been someone selling drugs. They may confused him.
Speaker 1: So it was kind of paranoia. It was kind of
Speaker 1: like a like a paranoid type of thing, and that
Speaker 1: was pretty much an do yes. So that was kind
Speaker 1: of the inspiration for that, and the video reflects that
Speaker 1: will little bit with the classic scene where you see
Speaker 1: all these weird guys going up the hallway. There's a alien,
Speaker 1: I think, and there's a few other there's one of
Speaker 1: the men at work, gentleman dresses a woman. I remember,
Speaker 1: it's all it's all on that video.
Speaker 2: But now it makes sense. Who can it be knocking
Speaker 2: at my door? Tiptoe across the floor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can't you see? He'll knock all day? Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: be trapped in here after day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Down Under has become almost an unofficial Australian anthem.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite revelations in the book is that
Speaker 2: the famous flute intro to down Under almost never happened.
Speaker 2: Producer Peter is.
Speaker 1: It McKeon, McKeon, it's mickey.
Speaker 2: He deserves a lot of credit here on this whole
Speaker 2: album talk about this particular song though originally a bassline
Speaker 2: opened the song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, before the album came out, they actually put out
Speaker 1: a single and it was a song called Key Punch
Speaker 1: Operator on Sriday, which was never on any Men at
Speaker 1: Work albums, and the B side was actually down Under.
Speaker 1: If you listen to the now, the single version is
Speaker 1: different than the album than the album version that eventually
Speaker 1: came out, and the single version sounds almost like a
Speaker 1: completely different song. It's a slower tempo and it also
Speaker 1: begins it's not the flute playing the famous melody. It's
Speaker 1: a fretless bass, and it's not nearly as catchy and
Speaker 1: not nearly as bright and upbeat. It's almost like a morose,
Speaker 1: depressing type sound like sounding version of it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: Peter McKeon definitely has should deserves a lot of credit
Speaker 1: for saying no, we have to switch things around the
Speaker 1: same also to backup for the song called who Can
Speaker 1: It Be Now? Originally live that had a whole other
Speaker 1: beginning part of the song, and it wasn't until almost
Speaker 1: not halfway through, but like a good minute in the
Speaker 1: song that the now classic saxophone part comes in. But
Speaker 1: Peter McKeon heard that and said, no, no, no, you got
Speaker 1: to cut out. The whole minute has to start right
Speaker 1: away with a drum bit and then right into the
Speaker 1: saxophone part. And Colin Hay was like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: never thought about about that, and again that's what we
Speaker 1: remember about that song. And also with the song down Under,
Speaker 1: if it was a fretless bass, it sounds not nearly
Speaker 1: as appealing, but with the flute, that's the whole entire
Speaker 1: hook and that's what made the song such a classic.
Speaker 2: And the other single was Be Good Johnny hit number
Speaker 2: seventy eight on Billboard, and Colin talked to you about
Speaker 2: that song, which he co wrote with Greg Ham, and
Speaker 2: growing up, I always thought it was just a funny
Speaker 2: song about a mischievous kid, but after reading your chapter,
Speaker 2: I came away thinking it's really about celebrating people who
Speaker 2: don't quite fit society's expectations. Right. What was your takeaway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's pretty much.
Speaker 1: It may be also a little bit autobiographical for Colin,
Speaker 1: because he talks about that he only likes to daydream,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking maybe that would have to do it
Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe when he was younger, and maybe
Speaker 1: even moving to Australia before he made friends or something
Speaker 1: like that. Maybe that's a reflection of that. But interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: when I did research for the book, to the best
Speaker 1: of my knowledge, Be Good Johnny was never issued as
Speaker 1: a single in America, which is baffling because it had
Speaker 1: a very popular video being played all the time on MTV.
Speaker 1: I remember it was right around holidays of nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 1: It was being played a lot, and this song was
Speaker 1: played a lot on the radio, and it was and
Speaker 1: it was on the charts like for album rock whatever.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't think it was ever issued as
Speaker 1: a single in the States. It was issued elsewhere, but
Speaker 1: never in the States, which is kind of strange. Something
Speaker 1: I talk about in the book too is this was
Speaker 1: like right before albums like Thriller showed you that you
Speaker 1: could have more than one single, you could have multiple videos.
Speaker 1: Like at that point, really most albums you were lucky
Speaker 1: if you got two videos max, you know, or two singles, Max,
Speaker 1: then the record company wanted you on to the next album,
Speaker 1: and then it wasn't really until say like def Leppard Hysteria,
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, you could have like five or
Speaker 1: six singles.
Speaker 2: In video seven right seven?
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Yeah, So that then then you could really milk
Speaker 1: these albums, you know. So yeah, So an album like
Speaker 1: Business as Usual definitely, I think could have had a
Speaker 1: larger shelf life if they maybe spaced out the singles
Speaker 1: and the video. They probably could have done more videos
Speaker 1: if they wanted, But it was onto the next album.
Speaker 1: I think a little to a prematurely personally.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because there are other songs on that album
Speaker 2: that could have been hits.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and the same also with Cargo too. There's songs
Speaker 1: one of the best which we'll get to when we
Speaker 1: talked to Cargo, I think talk about Cargo. I think
Speaker 1: the best song on Cargo has never even issued as
Speaker 1: a single.
Speaker 2: That's one we will get too. Yeah, business as usual.
Speaker 2: Let's see what were the other tracks on?
Speaker 1: Oh I Can I Can See It in Your Eyes
Speaker 1: is probably one of my favorite sure men at Work songs,
Speaker 1: and and Colin says that was actually being considered for
Speaker 1: the first single off the album, but then they eventually
Speaker 1: rightfully decided to go with who Can It Be Now,
Speaker 1: which is clearly the more correct choice. But I love
Speaker 1: the song called A song called the Underground is great.
Speaker 1: Saxophone Part one has a great saxophone part I love
Speaker 1: Touching the Untouchables is great. Catch a Star is great,
Speaker 1: and then and then and then Down by the Sea
Speaker 1: is such a classic, amazing song. I love that song
Speaker 1: so much, you know, and then and something else that
Speaker 1: Colin is very uh, you got to give him credit.
Speaker 1: He's very complimentary towards smoking marijuana concerning writing a lot
Speaker 1: of these songs. Yeah, talks a lot about how like
Speaker 1: that song in particular, it had it was a certain
Speaker 1: a certain type of pot he was. It was something
Speaker 1: tripping grass, it was called. And he said, he uh
Speaker 1: smoked that. And he just was playing a chord and
Speaker 1: I forget the chord, he said, but it was like
Speaker 1: I just was sitting on this one chord and it
Speaker 1: was such a nice sounding chord. And that became down
Speaker 1: by the Sea, which is one of my favorite Men
Speaker 1: at Work songs, and when you see them play it live.
Speaker 1: There's some full length concerts from eighty two eighty three
Speaker 1: on YouTube you could find and when when they do
Speaker 1: that song, it's like a whole other epic type song.
Speaker 1: I highly recommend try to find the live versions of
Speaker 1: that song.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, vegemite sandwich has become one of those. It's
Speaker 2: it's just something that people talk about right on the
Speaker 2: back of the book.
Speaker 1: You know, I have to I have to confess something
Speaker 1: I said to myself before this book comes out. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna find vegemite and eat it just so I could
Speaker 1: say what it tasted like. And I just never got
Speaker 1: around to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a spread.
Speaker 1: It is a spread. Yes, I actually asked Colin. Hey,
Speaker 1: and it's something to do with yeast. It's a yeast extract.
Speaker 1: It's related to beer. But it's not like you know, alcohol.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's and it's not like I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a sweet tasting thing. I think you put it so,
Speaker 1: you put it on toast, and then I saw like
Speaker 1: people also put other stuff on it though now too.
Speaker 1: But I think you put bread, actually bread butter and
Speaker 1: also vegemite, I think. But there are people like I
Speaker 1: interviewed Alan Hunter, one of the original mtvvas, and he
Speaker 1: said he once ate it or someone on him, like
Speaker 1: the MTV crew tried it. They said it was absolutely disgusting.
Speaker 2: Well, he brings up. He brings up a great point
Speaker 2: in the book. Their videos were funny, they were low budget,
Speaker 2: full of personality.
Speaker 1: They never took themselves too serious.
Speaker 2: He never took themselves too seriously. And Alan Hunter made
Speaker 2: an interesting observation that the videos may have created such
Speaker 2: a lighthearted image that they overshadowed just how strong the
Speaker 2: songwriting actually was. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 1: Possibly? Possibly. I think what really hurt them the most
Speaker 1: is Rush releasing the second album. And also, I mean
Speaker 1: the manager again and again, because he's only mentioned like
Speaker 1: a few times in the book. His name right now
Speaker 1: escapes me. But I okay, yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: that if they had a manager who was maybe more experienced,
Speaker 1: he would have probably said, you know, guys, we should
Speaker 1: just take some time off, and you know, we shouldn't
Speaker 1: split up the band, and we shouldn't excuse the bassist
Speaker 1: and the drummer. We should take some time off and
Speaker 1: let things simmer for a little bit and come back strong.
Speaker 2: But Russell Deppler, Russell.
Speaker 1: Deppler there, he was a college chum of Collins who said,
Speaker 1: you know, if you ever put a band together, I could,
Speaker 1: you know, try to help out. And from that I mean,
Speaker 1: but you know, again, to his credit, he was the
Speaker 1: manager during their success, so he obviously knew what buttons
Speaker 1: to push, But as far as keeping that lineup together,
Speaker 1: didn't didn't do that that good of a job.
Speaker 2: Here's a question if MTV never existed, would Men at
Speaker 2: Work would would they still be remembered as one of
Speaker 2: the defining bands of the early eighties.
Speaker 1: That's hard to say. Probably not, because but then again,
Speaker 1: you can say the same about Duran Duran. He could
Speaker 1: maybe say the same about Quiet Ryet. Like all these
Speaker 1: bands that used MTV to their advantage, I mean, would
Speaker 1: with def Leppard, Pyro Main you have been as popular
Speaker 1: without the videos for Photograph and also Rock of Ages,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I mean even something like
Speaker 1: the Kiss Look It Up video that created such a
Speaker 1: buzz because they took off their makeup. Would would if
Speaker 1: it wasn't around, if it was just like, oh, in
Speaker 1: the next issue of Hit Parader, there's a picture of
Speaker 1: Kiss with no makeup. Would that of you know, resonated
Speaker 1: as much as they look it up? Being look it Up?
Speaker 1: Video being played as much as it was at MTV.
Speaker 1: Probably not so. There's certain bands that definitely benefited greatly,
Speaker 1: and Men at Work was definitely one of the bands
Speaker 1: that benefited the most from MTV and also their videos. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just think the songs are so good that they
Speaker 2: they outlived the video.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, the play is still being played to this
Speaker 2: day on the radio. Yes.
Speaker 1: And something else I talk about in the book, Colin
Speaker 1: Hay is a very underrated guitarist. I didn't know until
Speaker 1: or do you want to wait till we get and songwriter? Yes,
Speaker 1: and songwriter. There's a song on Cargo that I'm talking
Speaker 1: about the guitar which we wait for. Oh yeah, let's
Speaker 1: let's se' wait till we get the court.
Speaker 2: Let's get to that now. Yeah, that's I mean. The
Speaker 2: book tackles one of one of rock's classic questions, how
Speaker 2: do you follow a blockbuster debut? And they followed with
Speaker 2: Cargo in late April nineteen eighty three. What did you
Speaker 2: discover about the pressure that they felt while making Cargo?
Speaker 1: Funny enough, there was no pressure because they completed the
Speaker 1: album before the album took off. In they completed Cargo
Speaker 1: before Business Usual took off in America, so it was
Speaker 1: in the can pretty much. I personally think they would
Speaker 1: have been better served for the band not to have recorded.
Speaker 1: Then they should have completed touring for business as usual,
Speaker 1: then gone and recorded, because one thing I've met at work,
Speaker 1: they played a lot of unreleased songs live during that tour.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of live recordings out there. There was
Speaker 1: one very good album that came out a few years
Speaker 1: back called Live at christ Church nineteen eighty two, which
Speaker 1: was on Spotify for a while and they just vanished
Speaker 1: off and almost half of the album is songs that
Speaker 1: were never on any minute work albums. And you know,
Speaker 1: some of the songs are good, some of them are
Speaker 1: You could see why they weren't on albums, but you
Speaker 1: could they're all decent songs and if they were maybe
Speaker 1: fine tuned a little bit better, they could have been
Speaker 1: on albums. But yeah, so the pressure they really wasn't
Speaker 1: pressure because they were they had the album done, they
Speaker 1: had the songs done, and two the credit. It maybe
Speaker 1: wasn't as front to back exteller as business as usual,
Speaker 1: but it was maybe just like a touch less It
Speaker 1: was like, for instance, I mentioned Quiet Riot, there's a
Speaker 1: huge difference between Metal Health and then the follow up
Speaker 1: Condition Critical. It's just like, oh yeah, two totally different.
Speaker 1: Like there's one album you could see why it was
Speaker 1: such a big MTV hit and everything, and the other
Speaker 1: one it's like, oh my god, this sounds like Demo.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what, it's not the same band,
Speaker 1: whereas Cargo sounds like a follow up that maybe just
Speaker 1: would have benefited a little bit more if you just wait,
Speaker 1: made it a little bit longer.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's why this is all like reading the book.
Speaker 2: This is news to me because I always looked at
Speaker 2: that second album. I never looked at it as geez,
Speaker 2: what what could have been? Or it was a sop one.
Speaker 2: I mean, doctor Heckel and mister Jive Overkill It's a
Speaker 2: mistake are all on there.
Speaker 1: And high Wire high Wire video on MTV.
Speaker 2: Great song. That's four singles, four solid singles and two
Speaker 2: huge overkill and it's a mistake. We're two huge hits.
Speaker 1: But we also have to remember that the best song
Speaker 1: that would probably have been the biggest hit, a song
Speaker 1: called Blue for You, is never even issued as a single.
Speaker 1: And when I when I asked you, Colin, hey, not
Speaker 1: that long ago. I was like, why was that never
Speaker 1: released as a single. He's like, oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean the the label thought Doctor Heckel and mister Jive.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I mean that that's a novelty song.
Speaker 1: But to me, Blue for You has a clear reggae vibe,
Speaker 1: but it's like reggae pop. It would have totally I
Speaker 1: think the people that love down Under would have definitely
Speaker 1: gotten into that as well. It would have kind of
Speaker 1: connected the dots. I think that was a top ten
Speaker 1: single that was very easy. It should have been spotted,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't, and just sure, sure just slipped through
Speaker 1: the cracks. And then also they were playing a song
Speaker 1: on the tour called The Longest Night, which was never
Speaker 1: on a Mentwork studio album, which to me is a
Speaker 1: complete travesty because it's one of their great songs and
Speaker 1: they played it live but never never they even put
Speaker 1: on the third album, which it should have been on
Speaker 1: the third album because it was played during the Cargo tour,
Speaker 1: which I don't understand why, you know, I guess maybe
Speaker 1: if you're too if you're in the band and too
Speaker 1: close to it, you sometimes can't differentiate which songs are
Speaker 1: better than others, or like which song should make the cut,
Speaker 1: which one shouldn't you need that's I guess why you
Speaker 1: need a good a good producer or a good manager
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know this song, we need to
Speaker 1: focus on this song. Is the video et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: The Longest Night? I feel like, is that? Is that
Speaker 2: on Spotify it?
Speaker 1: Or is that, yeah, you know there's I believe that
Speaker 1: live versions. Men at Work put out a live album
Speaker 1: in the nineties called it was just simply titled Brazil
Speaker 1: and I think they what it is is they they
Speaker 1: went back and recorded a studio version, but that was
Speaker 1: a live album, was just a studio vert, just one
Speaker 1: studio track, and it was that. But that wasn't the
Speaker 1: original band anymore. It was just Colin Hay and Greg
Speaker 1: Hammett that point, with some session type guys filling in.
Speaker 2: But again, the stats, I mean they speak of themselves.
Speaker 2: The album peaked at number one in Australia three on
Speaker 2: Billboard eight in the UK. It sold three million copies
Speaker 2: in the US. Doctor Heckel and Mister Jive Number twenty eight,
Speaker 2: Overkill number three.
Speaker 1: Overkill is a very big hit.
Speaker 2: It's a mistake.
Speaker 1: Number six top ten single exactly. And the thing too
Speaker 1: that I talked.
Speaker 2: About, how many bands would kill to have that out,
Speaker 2: Like if that's a debut album, that's a success story
Speaker 2: right there.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I talk about in the book, that
Speaker 1: there's count I mean, zillions of bands would give their
Speaker 1: left arm to have their second album be that successful.
Speaker 1: I mean, they actually did the it's so difficult for
Speaker 1: bands to avoid the sophomore slump, and Men at Work
Speaker 1: miraculously did it. And they just fumble the ball, which
Speaker 1: is completely maddening, Like they actually made it over the hump.
Speaker 1: They did all the heavy lifting, they pulled off what
Speaker 1: they needed to do. And then instead of again them
Speaker 1: just saying, guys, let's just take the next year off.
Speaker 1: We're done. We'll come back in late nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 1: We're gonna come back. But no, they just, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty much pissed it all away, which is such a travesting.
Speaker 2: Well that's where we're at now. What followed was what
Speaker 2: would be the final minute work album, nineteen eighty five's
Speaker 2: Two Hearts.
Speaker 1: You know, let me just quickly jump into I also
Speaker 1: something I talk about in the book.
Speaker 2: Oh you want to talk about a solo too.
Speaker 1: It Colin Hay is besides being a great singer, great songwriter,
Speaker 1: great performer. Two we see his videos like how you Know.
Speaker 1: He's very like nutty wacky, entered hating performer, but his
Speaker 1: guitar playing is very underrated. I always assumed he was
Speaker 1: just a very good rhythm player. But in the video
Speaker 1: for the song called Overkill, that has one of my
Speaker 1: favorite guitar solos. I love that guitar solo's like a
Speaker 1: It's like a Mark Knopfler, a Dar Straits type solo.
Speaker 1: But the video all you see are just the close
Speaker 1: up of fingers, the fingers on the frets and the
Speaker 1: guy playing. So I always assumed it was Ron Striker
Speaker 1: playing it. Then going back and doing research for the
Speaker 1: book watching actual live versions, it's none other than Colin
Speaker 1: Hay playing it. So Colin Hay is a very underrated guitarist,
Speaker 1: and he also watching a lot of the live stuff.
Speaker 1: He also does other song He does other solos too.
Speaker 1: On the first album Business as Usual, a song I
Speaker 1: mentioned before called I Can See It in Your Eyes
Speaker 1: as a great guitar solo, and that's him again. It's
Speaker 1: a very melodic, tasteful Mark Knopfler type solos, and those
Speaker 1: are like my favorite types of song. I mean, we
Speaker 1: talked about, of course, the great Eddie van Haleen many times.
Speaker 1: Of course I like that he's technically gifted. But you know,
Speaker 1: my favorite Eddie Vanhalen things are when he's not shredding
Speaker 1: It's twenty. The beginning of you Know Mean Street is
Speaker 1: like one of my favorite I absolutely love that, you know,
Speaker 1: and he of course it's his song perfectly.
Speaker 2: It compliments the song and it's understated exactly.
Speaker 1: The solo in the middle of the song ain't talking
Speaker 1: about love. All it is is just one simple, single thing,
Speaker 1: and it fits the song perfectly. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be a vay Malmstein type shread thing. You know.
Speaker 2: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookednrock dot com. There
Speaker 2: you can find all the back episodes of the show,
Speaker 2: the latest episode in video and audio, links to all
Speaker 2: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
Speaker 2: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
Speaker 2: and x. Also check out the booked on Rock blog.
Speaker 2: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
Speaker 2: rock book releases, and before you go check out the
Speaker 2: booked on rock online store, pick up some booked on
Speaker 2: rock Merch. It's all at booked on rock dot Com
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty five's Two Hearts. None of those singles
Speaker 2: were big hits. Everything I Need peaked at number forty
Speaker 2: seven on Billboard, not too bad. But the other singles
Speaker 2: were Maria hard Luck story in Sale to You. Colin
Speaker 2: Hay later said that by the time Two Hearts came
Speaker 2: around quote, the band was over, even if I didn't
Speaker 2: realize it yet. So who exits the band? And why
Speaker 2: we've just got two members now on.
Speaker 1: This Yes, okay, so okay. So what happens is after
Speaker 1: the cargo tour is done, John Reese, the bassist, and
Speaker 1: also Jerry Spyser, the drummer, they're both excused via phone.
Speaker 1: I believe Colin Hay calls them and says his quote
Speaker 1: is your services are no longer needed. That's what he says,
Speaker 1: which again, I mean, you know, you would like to
Speaker 1: think the manager would have been like, Hey, you know, Colin,
Speaker 1: I think it's a good idea. Let's just try to
Speaker 1: u through. Let's work this out with everybody you know
Speaker 1: or you know meet. They could have met halfway like
Speaker 1: all right, look, you know we'll have there's bands that
Speaker 1: have two managers managed, you know, or like, you know,
Speaker 1: we can why do we bring in a manager that
Speaker 1: we all can all agree on or something like that.
Speaker 1: But no, it was either you know, that was it,
Speaker 1: and so those guys leave. Then it's Colin Hay, Greg
Speaker 1: Hammer and also Ron Stryker stay together. They work on okay,
Speaker 1: and then they also decide not to use the producer
Speaker 1: Peter McKeon on this third album, which is a big
Speaker 1: mistake because if you something else I didn't talk about.
Speaker 1: He listened back to those two albums business as usual,
Speaker 1: almost a cargo. They're not dated sounding. They have a
Speaker 1: very timeless sound about them, and that's why they have
Speaker 1: aged so well. And that's a huge part of that is,
Speaker 1: of course Peter McKeon's production. And I talk about this
Speaker 1: in the book too. It's crazy to think about. You
Speaker 1: would have thought that he would have been a much
Speaker 1: in demand producer after two huge albums. You would have thought,
Speaker 1: like big bands would try to go after him, but
Speaker 1: he never really you know, turned into a big name
Speaker 1: much so after producer. It's very strange. So and he
Speaker 1: sadly passed away, not that long ago, maybe like a
Speaker 1: year or two ago. He passed away. So it's sad
Speaker 1: they never really I mean, he of course was successful
Speaker 1: with the men at work, but you know, he never
Speaker 1: got the qul to you know, produce the cars or
Speaker 1: you know, Def Leppard or Pat Bennettar, although he wrote
Speaker 1: a song for Pat Bennettar and wrote a song for
Speaker 1: Barbara streisand but he never got to produce any other
Speaker 1: big eighties bands, which is a shame because I think
Speaker 1: he would have done a very good job and he
Speaker 1: probably would have a lot of these dated sounding eighties
Speaker 1: productions probably would have sounded better with him as the producer.
Speaker 2: You know, Greg Hammond Colin Hay produced Two Hearts.
Speaker 1: Two Hearts, And that's why Two Hearts doesn't that has
Speaker 1: a dated sound. It's very processed drums. It's that exactly.
Speaker 1: It's that horrible eighties gated drum or. It's like a
Speaker 1: cannon at which I can't stand that. It just sounds
Speaker 1: very dated. The materials not as good. There's some songs
Speaker 1: that are okay, like this song every Day I Need
Speaker 1: I like a lot YEP, that's a good song. But
Speaker 1: I can't help but here you know, if it had
Speaker 1: the Peter McKee in production, if it had the other
Speaker 1: guys on it, you know, if it had the business
Speaker 1: as usual production, it would have been so much better.
Speaker 1: And I think you needed Peter McKee in to say, guys,
Speaker 1: like half these songs aren't nearly as good. We got
Speaker 1: to you know, go back and what's again? What's crazy?
Speaker 1: They actually had songs on the shelf that were better
Speaker 1: than a lot of these songs, like the song The
Speaker 1: Longest Night should have been on this album, but for
Speaker 1: some reason it wasn't. You know, it makes absolutely no
Speaker 1: sense why you had all these other songs that could
Speaker 1: have easily been on this album and they just sat
Speaker 1: there and never got released.
Speaker 2: Well, I did give the songs a listen or over
Speaker 2: the weekend, you know, after reading the book and getting
Speaker 2: ready for the interview, and I gotta say, I gotta
Speaker 2: defend some of these songs, like Man with Two Hearts,
Speaker 2: I like thing I Need a like. I think Sale
Speaker 2: to You is a good tune. I always like Maria
Speaker 2: because they included that on.
Speaker 1: A best Yeah, Best of You.
Speaker 2: I think hard Luck's Story is another one. Snakes and
Speaker 2: Ladders I like too.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, just it's hard for me to
Speaker 1: listen to it and not think what could have been,
Speaker 1: And and also the fact that it's pretty much the
Speaker 1: sound of a band just like on its like last legs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's like one of those types of
Speaker 1: things that.
Speaker 2: But I feel like giving up is another one too.
Speaker 2: I think I might even dig I got to listen
Speaker 2: to it again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just can't. It's like one of those things
Speaker 1: I just can't help. I can't hear it without just
Speaker 1: seeing the band breaking up pretty much in front of
Speaker 1: our eyes. And also it should have they should have
Speaker 1: Peter McKeon producing have been so much better.
Speaker 2: But what I remember is getting their best of in
Speaker 2: the late eighties when I was in high school and
Speaker 2: having no clue what Maria was. I didn't know where
Speaker 2: those songs were from, you know, Snakes and Ladders, Maria
Speaker 2: man with two. I'm you know, That's how That's how
Speaker 2: disinterested I was in met at work, right, I mean
Speaker 2: in a lot.
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, what that is is that's a sneaky label
Speaker 1: ploy er, a label maneuver. A lot of times, when
Speaker 1: a band puts out an album that doesn't sell well,
Speaker 1: they'll put out a best of after it. I know,
Speaker 1: for instance, Rat did this, well not Rat, but Rat's
Speaker 1: label did this. They put out you had me on
Speaker 1: a while back talking about the book I did about Rat.
Speaker 1: They put an album called it was called Detonator, which
Speaker 1: was not one of the better albums, and they put
Speaker 1: out a best of shortly thereafter, in like half the
Speaker 1: songs almost different songs from that album. And it's similar
Speaker 1: to this Ultimate at Work thing. Is like the record labels, well,
Speaker 1: you know, why don't we pad it with songs from
Speaker 1: this album that no one really knows. Who knows maybe
Speaker 1: one of these songs will become a hit or you know,
Speaker 1: maybe you know something will happen, you know, who knows.
Speaker 1: But that just you're kind of taking advantage of the
Speaker 1: poor bastard who's buying the CD, who now isn't getting
Speaker 1: turned on to, you know, great a material. Now you
Speaker 1: have this Grade B and also grade C, do do well?
Speaker 2: What's funny is I can't even see I'm looking on Wikipedia.
Speaker 2: I can't even it might have been one of those
Speaker 2: cheesy best of compilations that wasn't even a major label deal.
Speaker 2: It was okay because I just seemed to remember getting
Speaker 2: it in the late eighties, and they didn't. They put
Speaker 2: out a best of eighty one to eighty five in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. Maybe maybe I bought that in I.
Speaker 1: Think the one you may have had was called contraband
Speaker 1: that the one they came out.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it was in the nineties that I got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that one I remember I bought for a
Speaker 1: friend and I remember listening to with him and like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a second, Like I don't even know
Speaker 1: half these things. And it was because it was Yeah.
Speaker 1: Half the songs that were on Yeah and something else
Speaker 1: to I forgot to mention men it work put out
Speaker 1: a lot of non album B sides for Cargo and
Speaker 1: also Business as Usual, and again not all of them,
Speaker 1: but a few of those songs are better than what
Speaker 1: was on To Hearts. So again they needed someone like
Speaker 1: Peter McKeon to say, you know, guys, like you know,
Speaker 1: some of these songs just they're not nearly as good
Speaker 1: as what we had before. We got to make sure
Speaker 1: at least it's up to par quality wise and material.
Speaker 1: But that never happened. Well.
Speaker 2: The album peaked at sixteen in Australia fifty on the
Speaker 2: US chart, and that was it.
Speaker 1: At that point. Honestly, I wasn't that big in a
Speaker 1: minut at Work anymore. Like I bought the two albums
Speaker 1: when it came out. By eighty five, I'm pretty much
Speaker 1: really into heavy metal at this point. But I remember
Speaker 1: still watching MTV, and I have no recollection of seeing
Speaker 1: any of those Men at Work videos from the Two Hearts.
Speaker 1: It was just like that, that album just came and
Speaker 1: went so fast. It was It's insane to think that
Speaker 1: how popular they were just a year or two before.
Speaker 1: To just it was like someone just flicked a switch.
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean, if they were playing him, it might might
Speaker 2: have been late at night, in the overnight, you know. Yeah, So,
Speaker 2: after everything that happened with Men at Work, Colin Hay
Speaker 2: made that decision to abandon the band name altogether and
Speaker 2: move forward as a soul artist. How difficult was that
Speaker 2: for him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, first it was difficult, He says he pretty much
Speaker 1: had to start from scratch, because he admits that, aside
Speaker 1: from like diehard Men at Work fans, the name Colin
Speaker 1: Hay never really you know, Sting connected with the Masses,
Speaker 1: David le Roth connected with the Masses, like their names,
Speaker 1: but for some reason the name Colin Hay never connected
Speaker 1: with the masses. I mean, people know him from his look,
Speaker 1: you know, but they don't know his you know, lesser
Speaker 1: known people don't know his name necessarily. So it took
Speaker 1: him a few years. But to his credit, he never
Speaker 1: stopped touring and putting out solo albums, so he was
Speaker 1: able to build up a solo career and also a following.
Speaker 1: And then he also, like I talked about in the book,
Speaker 1: he got the call to be a member of Ringo
Speaker 1: Starr's All Star band and he's been a regular member
Speaker 1: of that for like the past like almost decade or
Speaker 1: something like that, which in turn has brought a whole
Speaker 1: new level of interest to men at Work. And also
Speaker 1: bands and artists have covered men at work. Mentworks songs
Speaker 1: are on TikTok all the time, They're in your TV
Speaker 1: shows and things like that. So I talk about in
Speaker 1: the book men at Work. Now, maybe they're not as
Speaker 1: popular as they were in eighty two eighty three, but
Speaker 1: I'd say there are definitely second to that. Like I'd
Speaker 1: say eighty two eighty three is their peak, and like
Speaker 1: I would say, now is you know right kind of
Speaker 1: below that that just as far as people, you know,
Speaker 1: still listening to the music, it popping up, people covering it,
Speaker 1: you know, just the awareness of those songs and commercials
Speaker 1: and things like that. Sure, so you know, and then
Speaker 1: also now and also now Colin hay torres as Men
Speaker 1: at Work even though he's the only he's the only
Speaker 1: real Men at Work member from the good old days.
Speaker 2: But you got two mega hit songs that everybody knows,
Speaker 2: who Can It Be? Now? Down Under? You got at
Speaker 2: least a handful of songs that everybody recognizes. I mean,
Speaker 2: you could you know, he could throw off of that.
Speaker 2: And he's got a full right there. And I remember
Speaker 2: hearing his acoustic version of who Can Have Been Out?
Speaker 2: I don't know where that's on. He's very bad, heard
Speaker 2: it on TV show as a man.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's incredibly talented, a incredibly talented gentleman. I'm it's
Speaker 1: kind of baffling that his solo career, I mean, because
Speaker 1: he has great solo songs and solo albums. He has
Speaker 1: a great song called Waiting for a New Life to Begin,
Speaker 1: which is a classic, it's a classic song amongst his fans,
Speaker 1: and that's a solo song. And yea, you hear his
Speaker 1: solo albums, and there's always like some songs like, oh,
Speaker 1: this could have been a good men at Work song
Speaker 1: back in eighty three, or you know, or this would
Speaker 1: have been better than the Two Hearts album if they
Speaker 1: just just put this out as a menic Ark album
Speaker 1: back in eighty five.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and he's got a distinct voice too, he
Speaker 2: does to me. If you hear it, you know it's
Speaker 2: him if you're of a certain age group. So when
Speaker 2: the band was inducted into I think it's pronounced the
Speaker 2: Area Hall of Fame, it's the Australian Recording Industry Association's
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame in nineteen eighty four, it was one
Speaker 2: of the few times the original members shared a stage. Again,
Speaker 2: did that moment create any genuine hope for a full reunion?
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't all the members, it was for them.
Speaker 1: The guitarist Ron Striker did not show up, okay, but
Speaker 1: that's one of the few times that Greg Ham and
Speaker 1: also Colin Hay showed up or were in the same
Speaker 1: spot as the bassist and drummer who they split from,
Speaker 1: John Reese, and also Jerry Spiser. So yeah, they were
Speaker 1: all on the same stage and Colin Hay said the microphone,
Speaker 1: He's like, it's a shame. He said something like to this, like,
Speaker 1: it's a shame that it takes something like this for
Speaker 1: us to all be on the same stage together, which
Speaker 1: you know, you would think fans hearing that at the
Speaker 1: time must must have gotten their hopes up, saying, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe this means that the classic men at Work lineup
Speaker 1: will get back together, And it meant Meant at Work
Speaker 1: did eventually get back together a few years later, but
Speaker 1: just Colin Hay and also Greg Ham, not the other guys.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
Speaker 2: If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for your support, and make sure
Speaker 2: you tell a friend, a family member, share on social
Speaker 2: media and let people know about Booked on Rock. And
Speaker 2: if you do like the podcast, make sure you subscribe
Speaker 2: give a five star review. Wherever you listen to the
Speaker 2: Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
Speaker 2: tune In, and on YouTube music. You can check out
Speaker 2: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
Speaker 2: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
Speaker 2: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
Speaker 2: to the show. Nineteen ninety six, Colin and Greg Ham,
Speaker 2: they revived Minute Work, They toured South America with new musicians.
Speaker 2: Were there ever any serious discussions during that period, which
Speaker 2: was ninety six to ninety eight, about expanding the lineup
Speaker 2: into a full reunion or was it understood from the
Speaker 2: beginning that this was just Colin and Greg.
Speaker 1: Now I just known. It was just understood it's going
Speaker 1: to be Collin and Greg because a can make more
Speaker 1: money that way, right, you know, and then also be
Speaker 1: Colin says that well. Later later on there was some
Speaker 1: problems between Ron and also Colin. Ron was arrested over
Speaker 1: making threats or something like that against Colin, And yeah, Colin.
Speaker 1: I went into Colin about a year ago. I asked him,
Speaker 1: you know, are you still in contact with any of
Speaker 1: the surviving Men at Work members? Because sadly Greg Ham
Speaker 1: passed away a few years back. But I asked him,
Speaker 1: are you in contact with any of the other surviving members?
Speaker 1: And his answer was just no, and that was it.
Speaker 1: That's it, And it didn't expand on it. And I
Speaker 1: didn't want to, you know, pursue that because clearly he
Speaker 1: just has that behind him and he's just happy just tour.
Speaker 1: He tours with the same band as a solo artist,
Speaker 1: and also his men at Work. Just when he plays
Speaker 1: as a solo artist, he plays more solo songs with
Speaker 1: Cement at work songs of course in there men at
Speaker 1: work when he tours, his Men at Work is primarily
Speaker 1: just men at work with maybe like just one or
Speaker 1: two solo songs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Colin, he's got publishing on all these right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he wrote He either wrote or co wrote almost
Speaker 1: all the songs on those albums. All the hits he
Speaker 1: either wrote or co wrote. Yeah. Then something we talk
Speaker 1: about though, is there was a whole legal problem with
Speaker 1: down Under. About fifteen or twenty years ago, a publishing
Speaker 1: company came out of the woodwork and said that down
Speaker 1: Under had a similar melody line to a Australian children's
Speaker 1: song called Cuckoo Barra in the Old Gum Tree or
Speaker 1: something like that, which me as a United States gentleman,
Speaker 1: I never heard that song before, but you hear it
Speaker 1: in the melodies, you know, kind of similar. But I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't I think it was pretty much
Speaker 1: just someone trying to look for money and they wanted
Speaker 1: something insane like fifty or sixty percent of the publishing
Speaker 1: or something crazy. And Colin Hay was forced to take
Speaker 1: to to take him to court, and he claims he
Speaker 1: had to blow like millions of dollars in you know, fees,
Speaker 1: but he said it was worth it because he's not gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, bend over and take it just what just
Speaker 1: because a guy's threatening you, you know, so so he
Speaker 1: fought them, yeah, and then he was able to So
Speaker 1: they worked out a deal that that this publisher guy,
Speaker 1: I think something like ten percent or something like that,
Speaker 1: but not nearly as much as they wanted. But sadly,
Speaker 1: Colin has a theory that he thinks that played a
Speaker 1: role in greg Ham's depression and he also developed a
Speaker 1: drinking problem greg Ham did, and that led to his passing.
Speaker 1: Just because greg Ham was depressed that he felt that
Speaker 1: people would always think of him as the gentleman that
Speaker 1: played the flute part in dn Under and that they
Speaker 1: would think of him as like a rip off artist,
Speaker 1: which nobody would have thought. No, I know exactly.
Speaker 2: It's so sad to read about that. The lawsuit was
Speaker 2: an nine. And then Gregham died of a heart attack.
Speaker 2: I think yeah, we could look it up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was all so like depressed and he yeah,
Speaker 1: like I said, Collins said, he developed a drinking thing,
Speaker 1: was his quote later in his life.
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, he died in April of twenty twelve at
Speaker 2: the age of fifty eight, and it really devastated him, he.
Speaker 1: Did, yeah, he said, to this day. To this day,
Speaker 1: he said, it still upsets him that Greg Ham passed away.
Speaker 1: He said he always envisioned him and Greg growing altogether
Speaker 1: and yeah still you know, possibly playing music and having
Speaker 1: fun together. But yeah, it just wasn't meant to be.
Speaker 2: Sadly, well, yeah, did you feel it was important to
Speaker 2: remind readers that Greg Ham's legacy should be defined by
Speaker 2: his extraordinary musicianship rather than the lawsuit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, absolutely. Yeah. People don't know he I
Speaker 1: don't think really took He taught himself the flute and
Speaker 1: saxophone and all these things, which is crazy as you
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 2: It was his sister that said she came home from
Speaker 2: school somebody, yeah.
Speaker 1: Lived with He lived with a house full of people
Speaker 1: and there was a woman that lived there who played
Speaker 1: flute a little bit, and he would just take the
Speaker 1: flute when she wasn't there and play it. But he said,
Speaker 1: which was kind of disgusting, is after you play a flute,
Speaker 1: you got to clean it because he gets spit and saliva.
Speaker 1: And he would just take it and put it back
Speaker 1: in the case and just and when the girl, when
Speaker 1: the woman noticed it, she's like, oh, well, now you
Speaker 1: could pay me, and this is yours now, and he
Speaker 1: he paid it. But then he then took it, as
Speaker 1: I guess, a sign, to learn it. And he taught
Speaker 1: himself a flute and he was a great, great flute slo.
Speaker 1: I mean, I put him up there with Ian Anderson, right,
Speaker 1: It's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's It's just it's terrible that that that
Speaker 2: he actually that that weight on him so heavily, because
Speaker 2: it wouldn't the fans certainly wouldn't have viewed him that way.
Speaker 1: And no I would have. I mean I that would have.
Speaker 1: I never ever would have thought of that.
Speaker 2: It was it was mentioned during a game show, right
Speaker 2: that was it was just an.
Speaker 1: Oh by the way, it was I think so. I
Speaker 1: think so.
Speaker 2: I made mention of it, and and the the musician
Speaker 2: or whoever owned publishing on it was watching and said, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I think I should just sue them, you know, like
Speaker 2: there was that Yeah.
Speaker 1: What it was was the original writer of the song
Speaker 1: passed away in the late eighties, and somehow his publishing
Speaker 1: then got transferred to someone else.
Speaker 2: And that person saw the TV show.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they saw the TV show, but
Speaker 1: somehow they put two and two together, possibly that and
Speaker 1: then yeah, and then they went after they went. They
Speaker 1: didn't even go after Greg Ham. They went after Ron
Speaker 1: Striker and also Colin Hey. I believe those are the two.
Speaker 1: Let me double check that. I'm pretty sure those are
Speaker 1: the two gentlemen that wrote down under Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which made Greg probably feel.
Speaker 1: Worse yes because he played yes.
Speaker 2: They shouldn't have to. One thing I appreciated about the
Speaker 2: final chapters is that you update readers on what everyone
Speaker 2: is doing today, what did they go on to do,
Speaker 2: and which former members post minute work Journey surprised you
Speaker 2: the most, if at all.
Speaker 1: Well, probably one of surprising the most is the drummer
Speaker 1: Jerry's became a teacher, so that's what he went on.
Speaker 1: He actually after he left Men at Work, he was
Speaker 1: in a very short lived band with Peter McKeon. I
Speaker 1: forget the name of the band, but they weren't very good,
Speaker 1: and I talk about it in the book. They only
Speaker 1: put out one album and it's it sounds like Genesis,
Speaker 1: like eighties Genesis, but not nearly as good. Yeah, okay, so,
Speaker 1: which is a shame because he was actually a great drummer.
Speaker 1: That's the one thing. You you watch Men at Work
Speaker 1: shows from eighty two eighty three, they're all great musicians,
Speaker 1: great singers. You know that very sad. That's such a
Speaker 1: talented band. Just you know, it's it's one of those
Speaker 1: bands similar to my beloved Blind Melon that just you know,
Speaker 1: you wish there was more albums of that classic lineup,
Speaker 1: you know, I just wish there was more Shannon hun
Speaker 1: Blind Melon. I wish there was more of Men at
Speaker 1: Work with that business as usual lineup, you know, with
Speaker 1: Peter McKeon as the as the producer. But the Bassis
Speaker 1: still plays in a low he lives in I believe Australia.
Speaker 1: He plays in like a local band, greg Ham said
Speaker 1: deceased Colin Hey we know still plays solo and plays
Speaker 1: as part of Ringo Stars All Star Band and then
Speaker 1: and then Ron Striker. Interestingly enough, in the nineties or
Speaker 1: early two thousands, he put out an album that I
Speaker 1: never heard of until I was doing research for this book,
Speaker 1: and it's like Middle Eastern music, and it reminded me
Speaker 1: a lot of the George Harrison songs, the Middle Eastern
Speaker 1: sounding songs he did with the Beatles, and some of
Speaker 1: the songs are very interesting, very melodic, and all I
Speaker 1: could think of is, like, this would have been so
Speaker 1: interesting if like one of these songs was on a
Speaker 1: minu at work album with Colin Hayes singing. It really
Speaker 1: would have been so unique and so cool to have
Speaker 1: like one of the cause Again, it's a very unique
Speaker 1: sounding song. It's Middle Eastern, but it is melodic, has
Speaker 1: pop type things, so it's I just said that they
Speaker 1: just couldn't get along and they you know, no longer
Speaker 1: or even in kind tech with each other, because I
Speaker 1: would love to hear what Ron Streiker and Colin a
Speaker 1: could do if they were to get together and you know,
Speaker 1: collaborate again. But sadly, I think that ship has sailed
Speaker 1: a long time ago.
Speaker 2: The book Down Rock Podcast is part of the Boneless
Speaker 2: podcasting network. If you're a fan of classic rock and
Speaker 2: classic film like I am, go to Boneless dot Lovable
Speaker 2: Dot app to find over twenty great shows there that's
Speaker 2: Boneless down Lovable dot app or just go to bookdown
Speaker 2: rock dot com, the Boneless podcasting network. It is what
Speaker 2: you want to be listen with confidence. It's just great
Speaker 2: that a book is out on this band because they
Speaker 2: certainly deserved it. Down Under the Men at Work in
Speaker 2: Colin Hay Story to Cover again.
Speaker 1: By Rado Yep, yeah, Umber by Mary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's out now. It just came out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just came out. It's available as paperback, hardcover
Speaker 1: and kindle and very shortly audio version with me doing
Speaker 1: the the whole narration and yeah, you know again. The
Speaker 1: reason why I've done all my books, and especially this
Speaker 1: book is I always wanted to read a book about
Speaker 1: men at work and also Colin Hey, it really has nothing,
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny, Like all these books I've done,
Speaker 1: I've never done a book like think like oh this,
Speaker 1: I just want to do a book that's gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: supposedly make me a lot of money. Of course, I
Speaker 1: will take the money if it comes my way. But
Speaker 1: but every single under Dogs, Yeah, but every single book
Speaker 1: I've ever done. It's it's a subject that I found
Speaker 1: interesting that I wanted there to be a book about
Speaker 1: that I wanted to read about, and so yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why i've you know, what happened was I talk about
Speaker 1: in the book too. So I loved Men at Work
Speaker 1: when they first came out. I had Businesses Usual and
Speaker 1: Cargo like a lot of other people. I lost interest
Speaker 1: after that pretty much, just because I got into heavy
Speaker 1: metal at that point, you know, and just but then
Speaker 1: in the early nineties I started to listen to all
Speaker 1: styles of music, like because alternative rock and grunge kind
Speaker 1: of broadened my listening at that point. So then I
Speaker 1: started listening to, you know, jazz and funk and all
Speaker 1: other styles of music. And then there was a weird
Speaker 1: thing like, oh, you know, I you know, let me
Speaker 1: listen to some of this stuff I used to listen to.
Speaker 1: And then I remember I bought Business as Usual on
Speaker 1: CD around ninety two ninety three, and I was blown away.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I forget how good this is.
Speaker 1: And then I got Cargoing. I was like, wow, Cargo
Speaker 1: is great too, And I just never bothered to get
Speaker 1: Two Hearts because I just didn't remember. I didn't buy
Speaker 1: it when it came out, so I didn't know any
Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, listening back to it, it just
Speaker 1: never really flowed to my boat.
Speaker 2: Yep. But this book answers the question. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people were asking, what the hell happened? You know,
Speaker 2: this band was huge, and it simply was really a
Speaker 2: matter of it just wasn't a democracy as Colin a
Speaker 2: had hoped. It's just that he was the guy, he
Speaker 2: was writing the song, and there was just there's no
Speaker 2: way it was going to work. From day one. I
Speaker 2: think he had he pretty much knew.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's just crazy, how there's
Speaker 1: no way to predict if a band is gonna like,
Speaker 1: you know, looking at Men at work in eighty two
Speaker 1: eighty three, you would say, look, especially after eighty three,
Speaker 1: after they, like I said, avoid the whole a dreaded
Speaker 1: a sophomore jink, sophomore slump thing. You think, all right,
Speaker 1: well now they're just home free now, Yeah, so that's it.
Speaker 1: They were able to do it, but no, they just
Speaker 1: totally imploded. You know. It's weird how just there's no
Speaker 1: way to predict if a band is going to stay together.
Speaker 1: Not how you know, a band like Pearl Jam stays
Speaker 1: together for decades, but a band like Men at Work
Speaker 1: is only supposed to be there for two or three albums,
Speaker 1: you know, the same with you know, Jane's Addiction, Blind
Speaker 1: Melon with Shannon Hun. You know, there's certain and I
Speaker 1: you know, Van Halen with David Ly Growth was I
Speaker 1: guess only good for those albums, you know, of course,
Speaker 1: not counting a different kind of truth, but that Van
Speaker 1: Halen with Davidly Growth lineup was only meant to be
Speaker 1: seventy eight to eighty four, I guess yeah.
Speaker 2: But can you imagine, like men at we're getting Mutt
Speaker 2: Lang to do their next album?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, I know, yeah, just get in there.
Speaker 2: And really like say, hey, guys, your first two albums
Speaker 2: were great. Let's let's take us up a notch.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, that would have been great, or honestly,
Speaker 1: I mean, really they should have just stuck with Peter McKee.
Speaker 1: And I mean I feel the same way we talked
Speaker 1: about the last time I was on about Smashing Pumpkins.
Speaker 1: I think they should have just stuck with Butch vigas
Speaker 1: their producer. As soon as Butch Vig left it just
Speaker 1: I lost total interest and I never really liked another
Speaker 1: Smashing Pumpkins album. Or there were certain songs I thought
Speaker 1: were okay, but no album of the Smashing Pumpkins ever
Speaker 1: came close to what I felt about Gish and Siamy's Dream,
Speaker 1: and the same with also Meant at Work after Business
Speaker 1: as Usual and also Cargo. It was never the same. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why you got to get this book.
Speaker 2: To get the book, got to get the book, all right, Greg,
Speaker 2: thank you. Let's plug whatever people can find you online
Speaker 2: social media. Also you write for Ultimate Guitar, so.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're right for Ultimate Guitar, All Music write a
Speaker 1: little bit for all these places, and yeah, go to
Speaker 1: Amazon dot com do a search for Greg Prado. That's
Speaker 1: where you could find this book down under the Men
Speaker 1: at Work and Colin hay Story, as well as all
Speaker 1: my other books that I've talked about. Every book on
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: I think we've covered, I mean, except for the sports ones.
Speaker 2: I'll get a.
Speaker 1: Sports okay, I'll to skip over, but yeah, pretty much
Speaker 1: every single music when we've talked about. And then also
Speaker 1: you can go to x dot com slash Greg Prado writer.
Speaker 1: I'm always posting my latest articles for Ultimate Guitar and
Speaker 1: also All Music there so you can check that. And
Speaker 1: I'm also posting when I have my new books and
Speaker 1: also interviews that I do like. For instance, I'll share
Speaker 1: this link to this interview. And since I'm always about giving.
Speaker 2: You scoops, Oh boy, here we have.
Speaker 1: A book coming out for the holiday season. Because holiday season,
Speaker 1: you got to put a book out, right, you have to?
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, unfortunately, hears.
Speaker 1: Yes, Unfortunately, I cannot tell you who it is exactly,
Speaker 1: but I will give you a hint. It is it about?
Speaker 1: It is deal? It deals with a pop culture icon,
Speaker 1: an all time pop culture icon.
Speaker 2: All right, and is it music related? Do we have?
Speaker 1: There is an aspect of music? He was not a musician,
Speaker 1: but this, Oh wa wait, I said, he so, okay,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just gonna say who it is?
Speaker 1: Scott Bea Oh wow, the legendary Scott BeO. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I'd say, hey, you know, I you
Speaker 1: know I speaking of that.
Speaker 2: You remember Joni and Tracci? Right, Yes, of course I
Speaker 2: I met what was her name?
Speaker 1: Oh, Aaron Moran?
Speaker 2: Aaron Moran.
Speaker 1: Right, I went sadly, sadly passed away.
Speaker 2: I went to a horror festival once. This is like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, fifteen years ago whatever, and at the
Speaker 2: table is the guy who plays Mykel Myers in the
Speaker 2: first movie. There's like three different ones, but he's the
Speaker 2: one where like they pull them Jamie Lee pulls the
Speaker 2: mask off right right, Tony Moran. I start chatting with
Speaker 2: the guy. He's like, yeah, you know my sisters and
Speaker 2: it was an actress too, she was in The Happy Days.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what, oh, yeah, Tony Moran and Aaron Moran. Yeah, brothers, and.
Speaker 1: They're also sitting at that table. Wasn't wasn't also Gary
Speaker 1: A Sharon at that table as well.
Speaker 2: Garry Cheron was there and he's just looking around. He's like,
Speaker 2: is anybody gonna come to me and ask me to decide? No?
Speaker 2: Stop it, stop it? But yeah, okay, So it's a
Speaker 2: pop culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pop culture icon and there is definitely music elements
Speaker 1: to it. And I did interview well known musicians for it,
Speaker 1: so yeah, there is definitely a music connection. So yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to have me back on.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean we got to we're counting the
Speaker 2: days here. We're counting the days, all right, Greg, thanks
Speaker 2: as always, go out and get that book on then
Speaker 2: at work. It's out now, Greg Brado, thank you, sir
Speaker 2: as always.
Speaker 1: Thank you Eric Audios. That's it, it's in the box. M.