WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.520 You see them in the videos for Who Can It 2 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.839 Be Now and Down Under where they're goofing around and 3 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:06.400 they look at they're like having such a good time 4 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:09.039 at their friends and their buddies. But Colin says that 5 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.119 it was pretty much at that time that it was 6 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:12.919 clear to him that this was a band that was 7 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:16.800 not gonna last very long. That PROCs were showing already. 8 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:19.399 We're totally bummed rock and roll. 9 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:22.559 I mean gotta leave you. You're reading Little Hands says 10 00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:23.679 it's time to rock and roll. 11 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:32.200 Rock Up, I totally booked. Welcome back to book Down 12 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:36.920 Rock conversations with authors, musicians, and insiders revealing the stories 13 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:41.719 behind classic rocks, greatest songs, albums and artists. I'm Eric Senach. 14 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.200 Before we get started. If you'd like to support the podcast, 15 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:47.399 get episodes commercial free, sign up for the Backstage Pass 16 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:50.240 from Patreon for just five dollars a month. Link in 17 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:51.920 the show notesory you can go to book down Rock 18 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.759 dot com. Now onto our guest, a returning guest, a 19 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.520 Book Down Rock Hall of famer Greg Prater, who has 20 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:02.320 a brand new book out titled Down Under The Men 21 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:05.799 at Work in Colin Hayes's story. Greg. Welcome, backward to 22 00:01:05.799 --> 00:01:08.480 see you again? All right, Hello, everybody knows the name 23 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:11.519 Men at Work, but we know little to nothing about 24 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.120 their formative years. What became of them? Why do you 25 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.079 think that is? Is there a lack of interest or 26 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.120 have the band members been unwilling to talk about it 27 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:20.920 other than Colin. 28 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.920 You know, it's very strange because if you think about it, 29 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.319 they were probably one of the most visual or most 30 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:33.040 seen bands early on in MTV, with the videos for 31 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:37.799 who Can It Be? Now, down Under, Bego Johnny. Also, 32 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:41.159 of course, the ballad Overkill was also a very popular 33 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.079 video on MTV. So it's funny how they were probably 34 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:46.680 one of the most visual bands, the most covered bands 35 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:51.239 of the time, and yet they just disappeared like pretty quickly, 36 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.120 you know. I mean, from in nineteen eighty three they 37 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:58.319 played the US Festival just below headliners the Clash on 38 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:02.280 the US Festival's New Waved and within about two or 39 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.599 three years, two or three years later, they're just totally gone, 40 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:09.039 finished and forgotten, which is very difficult to do, I 41 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:12.639 mean with a band that was that covered and that successful, 42 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:16.199 and you know, I mean, you know, it's also people 43 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:18.960 know the songs, but like they don't know like, for instance, 44 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.439 Colin Hay's name necessarily, so like they'll know men at work. 45 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.840 They may even know Business as Usual as the album, 46 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:29.360 but you mentioned Colin Hay or Greg Ham, Aron Striker 47 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:30.639 and they're like who you know? 48 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.840 Right, So it's yes, this is a band who also 49 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:35.199 won a Grammy Best New. 50 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:39.400 Artist exactly, and Colin a has a funny thing he's 51 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:43.400 gone on records saying it's the nineteen eighty three Best 52 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:47.199 New Artist Award aka Kiss of Death Award. Because right 53 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:51.120 after that their career well after that, they still had 54 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:55.280 some success with their second album, Cargo, which some people 55 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.199 tend to point to that as a sophomore slump album, 56 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:00.439 and it really wasn't. It was a very very good 57 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:02.719 album and it did have hits on it, just that 58 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:05.159 the problem with that, which I talked about in the book, 59 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:08.479 they rush released it because people, some people don't know 60 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:11.800 Business as Usual came out in nineteen eighty one in 61 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:15.199 their native land of Australia, it didn't come out to 62 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:18.080 nineteen eighty two here in the States. So what they 63 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:20.280 wanted to do is they wanted to show that they 64 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:24.039 still had an allegiance to their homeland. So even so 65 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:27.520 Business as Usual hits in the US in like late 66 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:30.800 eighty two is when it starts its number one run 67 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:33.960 of I believe fifteen consecutive weeks, which is insane if 68 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:37.159 you think about it. But even before that starts, they're 69 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.639 already I think they already finished work on their second 70 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:44.719 album because they wanted to put it out, meaning like 71 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:49.280 judging from the timeline of when it came out in Australia, 72 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.960 so that was a year before the US. Really what 73 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:53.800 should have been done, and this is what even Colin 74 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:55.960 Hay admits now looking back, they should have waited and 75 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.639 not put out Cargo so quickly. They put out Cargo. 76 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:01.719 I think when Business as Usual was either still number 77 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:04.080 one or it was definitely still in the top ten. 78 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:06.479 I know that. And there was even like a period 79 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.560 of time where Business as Usual was above Cargo in 80 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:11.759 the top ten or even on like the charts. So 81 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.599 it was not wise to yes, So it just wasn't 82 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:17.839 wise to put it out so fast, is what I'm 83 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:18.399 trying to say. 84 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.600 The opening chapter is about Colin Hay before the band 85 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.000 even exists, so let's talk about that. Where's he from? 86 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.279 He had a dad who owned a record store, so 87 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:30.360 that was an advantage for him. 88 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.720 Yes, he's from Scotland originally, and they had to move 89 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:36.240 eventually because he had a I believe, he says, a 90 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:39.920 wheezing problem. I guess he had either allergies or something 91 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.519 like that. So I think just as he was about 92 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.199 to be a teenage turned to turn into a teenager 93 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.360 around that time. But he had already discovered the Beatles 94 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:54.560 and his father owned a music store. He sold instruments 95 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.360 and they also sold records. So Colin says how he 96 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.120 always felt like he had a little bit of an 97 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.399 in because he would always get the records. He would 98 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:06.079 always hear the records before all his school chums would 99 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:08.680 hear them. So he'd hear the Beatles and the Kinks 100 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:10.879 and the Who and all these great and the Stones, 101 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:15.879 all these classic records and bands before the public would 102 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.399 actually hear it. So and that's when he starts learning guitar. 103 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:24.759 But it wasn't I think until he moved to Australia 104 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:27.040 that he and I think he moved right around I 105 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:29.360 believe it was right around the time of Sergeant Pepper 106 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:32.560 if I'm not mistaken, because he says that's an album 107 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:34.560 that always reminds him of like the Move and that 108 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:37.319 was an album that really left the lasting impression on him. 109 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:40.240 I think inspired him to start taking music more seriously 110 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:42.600 and that's when we started playing with bands, and by 111 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:46.680 the early seventies he's in pub rock bands, playing pubs 112 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.439 and also hotels in Australia at the time there were 113 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:55.079 a lot of pub rock type things and hotels to play. 114 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:56.839 And yeah, I don't know if I mentioned already. Yes, 115 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:01.680 So from Scotland they moved to Australia where the weather 116 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:03.759 where they moved was a little bit better, you know, 117 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:05.560 so just to help his health problem. 118 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.879 Yeah, that's where he meets Ron Striker. They so all 119 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.040 this begins as those two guys an acoustic duo. So 120 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:14.319 how did they meet and then how does the rest 121 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.360 of the band meant at work come together? 122 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:20.720 Yang, they just met just through playing music the local scene. 123 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:25.279 I know that Colin Hay meets Greg Ham, who's the 124 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:29.839 floutist and also saxophone player, through mutual friends. I think 125 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:32.839 he even met Greg Ham before Ron Striker, before he 126 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:36.879 met Ron Striker. But yeah, Ron Striker he meets in 127 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.399 the early to mid seventies and they're not playing rock music. 128 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.879 They're not playing rock music. They're playing acoustic folk type 129 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:47.639 stuff and I think they were really into. Some of 130 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:49.800 the bands he lists that he really liked were I 131 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:53.360 think Steely Dan. He also liked Nick Drake, who is 132 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:58.360 a underrated folk singer guitarist who has a tragic tale. 133 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:02.519 He died early on from a drug overdose. But he 134 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:05.879 became kind of like a cult figure after his passing 135 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:10.920 and he has a whole moon fans. Yes, exactly, great song, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, 136 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:14.360 they started playing together a bit and then by the 137 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.800 late seventies they were in a they got involved in 138 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.279 a musical, some like Obscure Musical in Australia, and then 139 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:24.800 one by one, through also going to college, they met 140 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:27.319 other people. They met the bassis, they met the drummer, 141 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:32.920 and then Men at Work slowly forms and again it's 142 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:36.199 playing hotels primarily and also clubs. There was like a 143 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:40.800 whole circuit around the whole Melbourne area. And yeah, by 144 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:43.800 seventy nine eighty they were so big that they had 145 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:47.839 to stop playing hotels because it was too small for them. 146 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.519 The name Men at Work, it's become iconic. Its origin 147 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:52.879 is very simple. 148 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:56.560 Right, pretty simple. Yeah, For a while they would be 149 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:58.160 playing and they didn't have a name. It would just 150 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:04.319 say Tonight and Colin or Colin and Ron until I 151 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:06.519 forget who suggested men at work. I think it may 152 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:08.639 have been someone who worked at a one of the 153 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:11.160 hotels or bars that they were playing at, and they 154 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.120 just kind of like the whole men at work thing 155 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.759 because similar to the US, you'd always see these men 156 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:19.439 at work signs with you know, people working on roads 157 00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:22.439 and construction and things like that. So that, you know, 158 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:24.439 I guess, just made sense for them at the time, 159 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:25.680 So why not, right. 160 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:27.920 And it was fitting and they were working hard, right, 161 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:30.000 they were playing constantly. 162 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:32.360 Constantly, Yes, yeah, yeah, they were a very hard working 163 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:36.159 band and that's what pretty much made them so tight, 164 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:38.759 and that's what improved these songs. You know, when you're 165 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:41.879 playing every night. That is what Colin says too. You 166 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.399 get instant grad you get instant feedback from the crowd, 167 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.039 you're playing in front of what works, what doesn't work. 168 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.559 And he says something interesting too that I think to 169 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:55.480 him he quickly realized that he wrote the best songs 170 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:59.000 of the band. That he said there was like going 171 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:01.200 into it, it was going to be a democracy. So 172 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.559 if anyone had a new song they would play it 173 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:05.200 in front of a band. But then he realized, at 174 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:07.840 one point, we're just kind of wasting time with these 175 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.279 other songs that aren't going anywhere, whereas he was the 176 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:13.039 one that was writing all the songs that eventually became 177 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.399 the classics. So you know, he does have a point 178 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:18.840 that you know, it was it's almost like similar to 179 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:23.240 the Police with you know, Sting is this insanely talented, 180 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:26.679 prolific songwriter. You have Andy Summers and Stuart Copland who 181 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:29.039 are also very talented, and there wrote some you know, 182 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.679 good songs for the Police, but there's a it's a 183 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.360 quantum leap what Sting is writing compared to what Andy 184 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.159 Summers and also Stuart Copland is writing. And that was 185 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.759 similar to all so the setup within men at work 186 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:40.159 as well. 187 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.039 Then Colin tells you in the interviews that you've done 188 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:45.440 with him, he could tell early on that the cracks 189 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:49.759 start to show, even early in that first year or two. 190 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.919 To me just as a fan at the time, and like, 191 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.320 looking back, it's like so weird. You know, you see 192 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.639 them in the videos for who Can It Be Now 193 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.159 and down Under where they're goofing around and they look 194 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:01.159 at they're like having such a time that their friends 195 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.840 and their buddies. But yeah, Colin says that it was 196 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:06.320 pretty much at that time that it was clear to 197 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:08.279 him that this was a band that was not gonna 198 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:12.679 last very long. That cracks were showing already. It seems 199 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:16.720 like him and Greg Hamm were the closest ron striker 200 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:19.000 in him. It seemed like they started to kind of 201 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:23.559 gradually drift apart, and the bassist and the drummer they 202 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:27.519 had a whole other viewpoint of how the business should 203 00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:33.200 be run and who they were kind of saying that 204 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:35.399 certain band members should be fired and like all it. 205 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:37.639 And they also didn't like the fact that Men at 206 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:43.879 Works manager was a old college friend of Collins, who granted, 207 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:48.000 it's a gentleman whose name right now escapes me, but 208 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.039 he didn't go on. I give him credit that he 209 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:53.120 did a good job managing Men at Work because they 210 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:57.399 their career skyrocketed, but he never went on to do 211 00:10:57.399 --> 00:10:59.679 anything after Men at Work. So the bassist in the 212 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:01.799 saying we got to get rid of him and get 213 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:04.960 a real manager, and Colin Hey puts his foot down 214 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:08.159 and says, no, I don't I want to stay with 215 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.559 this manager, and that was also a main reason why 216 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:12.960 they broke up is there was like a whole the 217 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.679 bassist and also drummer. Well, I should say the bassist 218 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:20.240 name is John Reese and the drummer's name is Jerry Spiser. 219 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.879 I should put that there. But yeah, the manager he 220 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.919 uh yeah, So Colin sticks by the manager and then 221 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.879 by Cargo, they're already drifting apart. And then after the 222 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:35.879 Cargo tour is over, the bassist and the drummer are 223 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:36.799 excused from the band. 224 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.559 That crazy, I mean, none of none of us knew 225 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.759 that that was going on. You're watching on MTV. Just 226 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:44.440 like you said, they seem like they're all get along great. Yeah, 227 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.720 Alb's blowing up. Everything's good, right, I mean yeah. 228 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:50.720 But it just it's so baffling why even like the 229 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.399 manager wouldn't have been like look, just like let's say 230 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:55.360 it's the same with of course, Van Hallen is the 231 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:59.039 biggest example of this, Like, guys, just sit down, let's 232 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:01.960 talk this over, let's work this out. Fine, you're not 233 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.399 getting along, you know, we're gonna take two months off 234 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:06.720 just we're doing nothing for two months. Just leave and 235 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.320 we're gonna come back in two months and we're gonna 236 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:11.159 work this out, you know, or like to use Van 237 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.279 Helen as an example, like you know, Eddie and Dave. 238 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.840 I want you guys just to go away for the 239 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.919 weekend together someplace. I want you to work at your differences. 240 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:25.559 Come back. When you finally work things out, we're gonna 241 00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:27.879 pick you know, I just little you know things like that, 242 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.600 or you know, it just seems like it could have 243 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.320 been worked out so easily, but who knows, you know, 244 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:35.279 I guess age has to do it. They were young 245 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.320 at the time. You don't. Maybe you think it's you know, well, 246 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:42.480 we were this successful once. I'll you know, Colin maybe 247 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:44.919 was thinking, oh, I could just launch a solo career 248 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.279 and I'll have just as much success, you know, or 249 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:49.960 the men at work rhythm sections like oh, we'll just 250 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.840 you know, pick up where with some other band or 251 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:55.320 you know, something like that. But of course it's very 252 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:57.960 difficult when you get that type of chemistry within a 253 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.000 band and you know, the friction, and sometimes it's not 254 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:02.840 pleasant to be in a band with friction. But that's 255 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:06.799 what makes your Police so great, your Van Allen's so great, 256 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.639 the Ramones so great. Is that friction, you. 257 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:15.000 Know, the Cricketer's Arms. I was looking through the skinning 258 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.519 through the book, I was trying to remember the name 259 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:18.799 of the club that that was the big place there 260 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:24.240 where they really worked on perfecting their their sound and 261 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:27.600 and really gelling as a band, The Cricketer's Arms. So 262 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.320 if anybody who's listening from Australia right now or watching, 263 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:32.759 I'm sure they recognize that name. 264 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.279 Yeah. Yeah, And if if you ever get the chance 265 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.720 going YouTube, there's an interesting clip that I came across 266 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.679 while I was doing research for the book, Greg Ham 267 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.759 and also Colin Hey, go back and visit it around 268 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:45.840 like nineteen eighty five, like right around the time they 269 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:49.399 put out their third album, Two Hearts, and it's a 270 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:54.200 little little tiny like bar. You know, it's pretty crazy 271 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:56.320 to think that a band like men at work that. 272 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:59.200 Just a few years later again they were opening up 273 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:03.000 for Fleetwood Mac, opening up for David Bowie and then 274 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.720 of course their second only Below the Clash at the 275 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:10.279 nineteen eighty three OZ Festival on the New Wave Night. 276 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:14.200 Three twenty seven Punt Road, Richmond, Victoria. You even got 277 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:14.840 that in the book. 278 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:16.440 Sounds right, yes, sounds great. 279 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:17.360 Did your homework all right? 280 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:17.960 So the Davit. 281 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:23.200 The debut album Business as Usual, huge commercial and critical success. 282 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.840 Here's some stats here. Released November ninth, nineteen eighty one, 283 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:29.279 it spent fifteen weeks at number one in the US 284 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.240 Billboard two hundred from late eighty two into early nineteen 285 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.679 eighty three, five weeks at number one in the UK 286 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.720 and early eighty three who Could It Be? Now? And 287 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:42.480 down Under both number one singles in the US. Surprising 288 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.600 to learn how personal who Can It Be? 289 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:45.879 Now? 290 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.519 Was compared to how humorous it sounds? 291 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:48.759 Right? 292 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:49.960 What's the story behind that? 293 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.000 Kyle Hey says he was living in a flat, which 294 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:58.000 is another word for a apartment, and he was unemployed. 295 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.320 But there was some He talks about this in the book, 296 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.039 that there was some kind of slight scam that you know, 297 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.679 they were playing in a band and making money, but 298 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:08.399 it was probably either paid in cash so you didn't 299 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:11.000 really have to report it to the attacks man. But 300 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.000 then he didn't. He wasn't working to also get like 301 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.919 I guess, unemployment checks on top of it, so he 302 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.960 was always paranoid. Whenever we would hear people coming up 303 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.879 the door, knocking on his door, there was maybe going 304 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:27.120 to be someone checking to see if he was pulling 305 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.720 a scam or if he was looking for work or 306 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:33.759 something like that. He also talks about that there was 307 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.360 a gentleman that lived right across the hallway from him 308 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:39.240 that he that he thinks may have been selling drugs. 309 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.399 So he would also get knocks at the door for 310 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.399 people looking for that guy, which he again thinks it 311 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.639 may have been someone selling drugs. They may confused him. 312 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:50.919 So it was kind of paranoia. It was kind of 313 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.720 like a like a paranoid type of thing, and that 314 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.840 was pretty much an do yes. So that was kind 315 00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:59.720 of the inspiration for that, and the video reflects that 316 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.240 will little bit with the classic scene where you see 317 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:06.559 all these weird guys going up the hallway. There's a alien, 318 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.039 I think, and there's a few other there's one of 319 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.240 the men at work, gentleman dresses a woman. I remember, 320 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:13.279 it's all it's all on that video. 321 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.000 But now it makes sense. Who can it be knocking 322 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.279 at my door? Tiptoe across the floor. 323 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.240 Yeah, can't you see? He'll knock all day? Yeah, I'll 324 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:22.399 be trapped in here after day. 325 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:28.879 Yeah. Down Under has become almost an unofficial Australian anthem. 326 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:31.080 One of my favorite revelations in the book is that 327 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:35.159 the famous flute intro to down Under almost never happened. 328 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:37.240 Producer Peter is. 329 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.600 It McKeon, McKeon, it's mickey. 330 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.639 He deserves a lot of credit here on this whole 331 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.799 album talk about this particular song though originally a bassline 332 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:46.600 opened the song. 333 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:49.480 Yeah, before the album came out, they actually put out 334 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.840 a single and it was a song called Key Punch 335 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.279 Operator on Sriday, which was never on any Men at 336 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:00.360 Work albums, and the B side was actually down Under. 337 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.360 If you listen to the now, the single version is 338 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:05.759 different than the album than the album version that eventually 339 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:09.079 came out, and the single version sounds almost like a 340 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:12.680 completely different song. It's a slower tempo and it also 341 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:18.279 begins it's not the flute playing the famous melody. It's 342 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:22.000 a fretless bass, and it's not nearly as catchy and 343 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:25.200 not nearly as bright and upbeat. It's almost like a morose, 344 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.680 depressing type sound like sounding version of it. So yeah, 345 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:33.799 Peter McKeon definitely has should deserves a lot of credit 346 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.720 for saying no, we have to switch things around the 347 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:40.039 same also to backup for the song called who Can 348 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.079 It Be Now? Originally live that had a whole other 349 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.200 beginning part of the song, and it wasn't until almost 350 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.079 not halfway through, but like a good minute in the 351 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:54.759 song that the now classic saxophone part comes in. But 352 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:56.759 Peter McKeon heard that and said, no, no, no, you got 353 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:59.400 to cut out. The whole minute has to start right 354 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.480 away with a drum bit and then right into the 355 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.640 saxophone part. And Colin Hay was like, oh, yeah, I 356 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:07.720 never thought about about that, and again that's what we 357 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:12.880 remember about that song. And also with the song down Under, 358 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.359 if it was a fretless bass, it sounds not nearly 359 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.200 as appealing, but with the flute, that's the whole entire 360 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:21.720 hook and that's what made the song such a classic. 361 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:24.839 And the other single was Be Good Johnny hit number 362 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:28.200 seventy eight on Billboard, and Colin talked to you about 363 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.559 that song, which he co wrote with Greg Ham, and 364 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:33.519 growing up, I always thought it was just a funny 365 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.920 song about a mischievous kid, but after reading your chapter, 366 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.119 I came away thinking it's really about celebrating people who 367 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:46.160 don't quite fit society's expectations. Right. What was your takeaway, Yeah, 368 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:46.880 that's pretty much. 369 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:50.839 It may be also a little bit autobiographical for Colin, 370 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:53.119 because he talks about that he only likes to daydream, 371 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.319 and I'm thinking maybe that would have to do it 372 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.240 a little bit, maybe when he was younger, and maybe 373 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.599 even moving to Australia before he made friends or something 374 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:06.039 like that. Maybe that's a reflection of that. But interestingly enough, 375 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:07.759 when I did research for the book, to the best 376 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:10.440 of my knowledge, Be Good Johnny was never issued as 377 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:13.519 a single in America, which is baffling because it had 378 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.880 a very popular video being played all the time on MTV. 379 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:19.759 I remember it was right around holidays of nineteen eighty two. 380 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:23.319 It was being played a lot, and this song was 381 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:25.359 played a lot on the radio, and it was and 382 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.359 it was on the charts like for album rock whatever. 383 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:31.759 But yeah, I don't think it was ever issued as 384 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.960 a single in the States. It was issued elsewhere, but 385 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.680 never in the States, which is kind of strange. Something 386 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:38.519 I talk about in the book too is this was 387 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:43.359 like right before albums like Thriller showed you that you 388 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.200 could have more than one single, you could have multiple videos. 389 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.319 Like at that point, really most albums you were lucky 390 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:53.079 if you got two videos max, you know, or two singles, Max, 391 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:55.680 then the record company wanted you on to the next album, 392 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.640 and then it wasn't really until say like def Leppard Hysteria, 393 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:00.920 where it's like, oh, you could have like five or 394 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.039 six singles. 395 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.200 In video seven right seven? 396 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:07.559 Right? Yeah? Yeah, So that then then you could really milk 397 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.759 these albums, you know. So yeah, So an album like 398 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.839 Business as Usual definitely, I think could have had a 399 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:18.039 larger shelf life if they maybe spaced out the singles 400 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:19.920 and the video. They probably could have done more videos 401 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:22.279