Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What What's gonna happen?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects. I got a bunch
Speaker 2: of rejects with us here today and no Georgina Rose. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: she decided to cancel about a twenty minutes before the show.
Speaker 2: I guess she wasn't too intimidated by the people that
Speaker 2: are on the show. She needed to vet them and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. And because I said fuck twice
Speaker 2: because I was a little upset, she basically said, go
Speaker 2: fuck yourself now. She decided not to do the show
Speaker 2: at all. So unfortunately, Uh, sorry everybody. I thought she'd
Speaker 2: be coming on, but she's not. I guess she's scared
Speaker 2: of the Occult rejects. I don't know.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna kick it anyway.
Speaker 2: Fuck it. We're all here. So, uh, we got somebody
Speaker 2: else new with us today. I was very, very excited
Speaker 2: to get this woman on. She was in the oto
Speaker 2: with me. We did a lot of we did two
Speaker 2: initiations together. We spent a lot of time together at
Speaker 2: that place with other people that we were very close to. Uh.
Speaker 2: We even did a class together there on Zoom did
Speaker 2: you forget about that.
Speaker 3: Judith is Sigils class.
Speaker 2: Yeah we did that.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I just had to say.
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, one of the few real
Speaker 2: friends that I had in the Oto, and she was
Speaker 2: always just you know, a good person.
Speaker 3: So I wanted to get her on.
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, Georgina Rose was coming on and
Speaker 2: she had shown up at two Really Lodge a few times,
Speaker 2: and I thought maybe Judith had met her or whatever.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to give her that chance to meet
Speaker 2: the woman. And uh, I figured, fuck it, let me see.
Speaker 2: Uh you know, if I can get Judith on and
Speaker 2: she was able to, I hit her up. It's been
Speaker 2: a while, it's been fucking years. Actually, you're like.
Speaker 3: Yo, you just disap here, dude.
Speaker 2: I was like, yo, I had a weird magical experience
Speaker 2: and the OTO was weiring me out, so I just balanced.
Speaker 2: I just didn't know what to do, but yeah I did.
Speaker 2: I did basically just disappear. But uh yeah, we got
Speaker 2: her on, and Judith. Please let everybody you know, like
Speaker 2: what your dealer is. I know, you have your own channel.
Speaker 2: It's not really based on magic, but you know, you
Speaker 2: can plug whatever you like.
Speaker 4: Uh I I go by the loan, but Ji Swanson
Speaker 4: and yes, I I do have my own channel, and
Speaker 4: my channel is based on basically, uh more like self awareness,
Speaker 4: not into high magic, even though I still still into it.
Speaker 4: I'm still into it, but uh yeah, it's still loan.
Speaker 5: It's called a loan.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 5: I guess I'll share that link later on with Unick.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, if you give me the link, I could
Speaker 2: put it down in the show notes for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but go check out that channel, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: hopefully if things work out right, I would like to
Speaker 2: get you more and more offen with those students, so
Speaker 2: that'd be funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, even just bullshit and
Speaker 2: had about the experiences that we've had.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many things we can talk about.
Speaker 2: And finally, next we got the Headless Giant.
Speaker 3: My boy, what is going on?
Speaker 2: Sir?
Speaker 3: How are you?
Speaker 7: How you doing?
Speaker 8: You can find me on YouTube and everything else. It'd
Speaker 8: be interesting to get some stories out of YouTube. So
Speaker 8: let's see where we're going to them.
Speaker 2: All right, And then we have Arrowsop Arrows show it up.
Speaker 2: And I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: I know you're really excited for this one. That's why
Speaker 3: I feel bad.
Speaker 9: I was so excited for this, but that's all right.
Speaker 9: I'm still happy to be here with you guys, Always
Speaker 9: happy to be here with you guys. You guys are
Speaker 9: great friends. But yes, you can find me on YouTube
Speaker 9: at aerowsup and you can find me on Twitter at
Speaker 9: arrowst those. I post a lot of astrological things and
Speaker 9: her medic and neo platonist things. I'm coming out with
Speaker 9: a new video Assume that I'm really excited about about
Speaker 9: Chaos Versus Order and uh yeah, so there's gonna be
Speaker 9: some neo platonism in there.
Speaker 3: There's gonna be here, so.
Speaker 9: You know, o Cyrus raw Typhon really excited about it.
Speaker 9: Check that out hopefully Thursday or Friday.
Speaker 2: Very nice, nice, awesome. Yeah, definitely check a look out
Speaker 2: for that. And if you haven't listened to the other
Speaker 2: stuff that she has done on the show, I think
Speaker 2: you even have that up on your YouTube, correct.
Speaker 9: Yes, yep, I have some of those old presentations that
Speaker 9: I did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you want to go over to her
Speaker 2: channel and check out some of the work she's on
Speaker 2: the Legal REJACX Fucking Bangers.
Speaker 3: They were so good, That's why I brought around the
Speaker 3: t the team. So check it out.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right after me Monday, and I didn't want
Speaker 2: to put you on the spot, but I think Hella
Speaker 2: said you might have been able to come on this
Speaker 2: Thursday again with us on the mailbay. Yes, yeah, that
Speaker 2: was actually fun when you joined this. I had a
Speaker 2: good time, so look forward.
Speaker 9: Yeah it was and hopefully we get some mail, send
Speaker 9: us mail.
Speaker 2: Right, That's what I was even saying before.
Speaker 3: I've even said that before.
Speaker 2: And it's like I'm not even trying to brag, but
Speaker 2: it's like, yo, when you look at like if I
Speaker 2: was like to show the numbers how many people listen
Speaker 2: to the show and the fact that we get no mail,
Speaker 2: it's like it's fucking weird.
Speaker 3: Actually, like I was saying to.
Speaker 2: Somebody else, like you know when I was I've said
Speaker 2: this to Jim plenty of times, like I have this
Speaker 2: obsession with like wanting to change the way Thlima is
Speaker 2: seen before I die. And I did tell him, I
Speaker 2: was like, you know, the show already has more people
Speaker 2: listening to it than he's even even in the fucking
Speaker 2: oto at this point. So like when you're finding yourself
Speaker 2: in that position, like could be possible to pull that off,
Speaker 2: but like that's what It's like, come on, send us
Speaker 2: some fucking mail man. What the fuck?
Speaker 3: I'm even offering to send out free stickers.
Speaker 2: I'm sending you a seventy something something that would have
Speaker 2: a sense stamp.
Speaker 3: Plus the course of the stick is for you just to.
Speaker 2: Send us an email with your address and they I'll
Speaker 2: send you for some free stickers.
Speaker 3: So come on, man, all.
Speaker 8: Right, I think it's a conspiracy of all these other shows.
Speaker 8: They actually write their own emails to themselves, so this
Speaker 8: is actually the norm. Paranormal experiences are not that common.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: Exactly right, I mean, or even weird dreams. Fuck, I
Speaker 2: mean that. I'll be totally honest with you. I'm surprised
Speaker 2: we haven't just had bullshit sent to It's just being like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'll get some free stickers out of a bullshit story,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just go in to chat GBT.
Speaker 2: Just be like, I need a bullshit story for a
Speaker 2: paranormal tale for the Occult Rejex podcast.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: That's now we're gonnaet CHADGBT stories. Fuck all right, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna shut up, Jen, go ahead, please.
Speaker 10: Yo, what is boss mister ninety three? The true ninety three?
Speaker 10: And I just want to say so that's too bad
Speaker 10: about Georgina. But I'm I'm actually excited to be on
Speaker 10: with all of you guys, and I have read her book,
Speaker 10: and as like someone who has a journeyed the suffering myself,
Speaker 10: I feel like I'm fully capable of to talk about it,
Speaker 10: and or we'll just talk about like Macaba journeys in general.
Speaker 10: And obviously, if you really are interested in all the
Speaker 10: work that we've done on Rejects, you can listen to
Speaker 10: Matt Murra, Joshua the Branch and of course Solar Exile me.
Speaker 1: Do our have done the Kabala series.
Speaker 10: We've done all the speculative Cabala hundreds of hours on
Speaker 10: the Gray Lodge, as well as my show. And my
Speaker 10: show is really outpouring of Nick's show, not because it
Speaker 10: started because I started coming on Rejects, but it was
Speaker 10: really because Nick let me kind of train quote unquote
Speaker 10: as a podcaster, as an occult podcaster and meet fucking
Speaker 10: cool people.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that for it.
Speaker 10: I'm sorry, Nick, And so that's really so I would
Speaker 10: consider myself like part of the I'm part of the
Speaker 10: nebula of rejects in like a small way, and definitely
Speaker 10: the Gray Lodge is absolutely.
Speaker 1: Like a little brother show.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I love that, Ijax. I've wanted to say
Speaker 2: that before, but I never I wasn't sure how you
Speaker 2: would take that. But I do look at it as
Speaker 2: like a brotherlike it's almost like, you know, an extension
Speaker 2: of the occult rejecs.
Speaker 10: I would it's absolutely an extension of o'call rejects the
Speaker 10: Gray Lodge because it developed out of the idea of
Speaker 10: doing panel because I, I mean, I have my own show,
Speaker 10: so I don't like, you know, I can do whatever
Speaker 10: I want on that feed. But then to do like
Speaker 10: the thing with we all for we're hierarchical, we're trying
Speaker 10: to we're trying that out and you know, I have
Speaker 10: to be the boss a little bit, but it just
Speaker 10: do more, you know, like creative decisions and then Maths
Speaker 10: are webmaster, and then the other two bring like so
Speaker 10: much knowledge. So it's been a really exciting, like the
Speaker 10: last three years Nick, to do this with you has
Speaker 10: been like really great and thank you so much, and
Speaker 10: you've really let me allowed me to meet exceptionally interesting
Speaker 10: you know, my favorite things American magicians. Anyways, So all
Speaker 10: if people are going to get mad at me, They're
Speaker 10: going to say, I love bombing you.
Speaker 1: But that's okay.
Speaker 10: So I just want to say thank you to Matt
Speaker 10: Murra and Joshua the Branch of course, who are my brothers.
Speaker 1: And the Gray Lodge.
Speaker 10: I didn't know this until two days ago, but the
Speaker 10: Gray Lodge was actually the name of a chaote podcast
Speaker 10: from the early two thousands that was doing aonic work.
Speaker 10: So you were saying, like, how Nick, you wanted to
Speaker 10: sort of change the nature of Telema. Well, I think
Speaker 10: in a lot of ways, like the show that you've created,
Speaker 10: and then the shows that like I've gone and done,
Speaker 10: and then obviously like even like Headless and Arrows, like
Speaker 10: they're doing their like more hellenic stuff, and I think
Speaker 10: that that's it's all sort of inter working parts of
Speaker 10: like we're all working on we're all doing aonic work.
Speaker 10: We're just sort of looking at our individual sort of
Speaker 10: lenses of it. And of course I obviously I'm one,
Speaker 10: this is my thing I'm known for as am of
Speaker 10: the Daughter, so that would have never come into wish.
Speaker 10: I think I always had the idea, but I think
Speaker 10: I mean, I definitely did have the idea, but I
Speaker 10: was like, this is it? It came into manifestation through
Speaker 10: the show. So that's a great work and I owe
Speaker 10: that to you, so thank you, Nick. And if you
Speaker 10: want to check me out, check me out at Wukan Reborn,
Speaker 10: w uk O and g Reborn or at Threshold Saints
Speaker 10: on IG and Twitter. I did drop an episode with
Speaker 10: brother Greg Kaminski from a culture personality. I know, we
Speaker 10: just did a show with him as well on Rejects,
Speaker 10: but I did a like a one on one sort
Speaker 10: of like Tondraic Buddhist conversation, very discursive, very high IQ.
Speaker 10: Even I had a hard time keeping up sometimes and
Speaker 10: it was really great. And I have a really amazing
Speaker 10: interview with the writer Joe Nelly, who's also known as
Speaker 10: Pill Leader. He's very he's kind of controversial if you've
Speaker 10: ever seen his reels on IG safe sleazy. So but anyways,
Speaker 10: I have an interview with him coming out and lots
Speaker 10: of stuff coming up.
Speaker 1: So just keep him and keep him, you know, keep
Speaker 1: watch his face.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much all of you, and I'm really
Speaker 1: excited to meet you to at Fustball. Thank you.
Speaker 2: I was really excited to get a round, but uh yeah,
Speaker 2: thank you very much. And I appreciate all the kind words,
Speaker 2: but uh, you know you said something like the aon
Speaker 2: or whatever. Uh, you have to keep going on about
Speaker 2: what I was saying earlier. But like you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to push the idea with the OTO, but
Speaker 2: not even so much the OTO. Even in a lot
Speaker 2: of occult orders, the people that are the faces of them,
Speaker 2: they're getting old. Just keep it real. Lon Milo is
Speaker 2: in fucking at Spring Chicken anymore. James Wasserman wasn't. He's
Speaker 2: passed away. Unfortunately, they're not gonna have too many big
Speaker 2: faces or some of these orders anymore. Eventually, the old
Speaker 2: Aon is gonna die regardless, and people are going to
Speaker 2: have to step up and start being coming a face
Speaker 2: or doing something with it if they want to. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, just even like what you're saying, I mean
Speaker 2: even that you know, we're talking about going from one
Speaker 2: to a on to the next in so many ways,
Speaker 2: I'd even see like even the voices of the faces
Speaker 2: of what of what things can be is gonna change,
Speaker 2: you know, or has possibility.
Speaker 3: That's the possibility to.
Speaker 10: Sorry about that, No, go ahead, We're leaving the institutional frame.
Speaker 1: That's what I end up.
Speaker 10: The daughter is we're leaving both the long House and
Speaker 10: the institutional frame, so you know, the sons and daughters
Speaker 10: we get to remake it. So let's remake it in
Speaker 10: a cool fucking way.
Speaker 3: I want to get a little bit more nerdy and
Speaker 3: sciencey about it.
Speaker 2: Actually, I like Lon Milo, but his his stories it's
Speaker 2: just like, well my opinion, I think they're deeply it coulded,
Speaker 2: but you know, you know, funny stories about Grandpa fucking
Speaker 2: around with the magic isn't too deep, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. But whatever, not trying to shit on the guy,
Speaker 2: but I would like, I just think there's a lot
Speaker 2: of magic, regardless if it's the lima that is just
Speaker 2: kind of not looked at, like too intelligently right now.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I got to catch up with
Speaker 3: the tongue, man.
Speaker 8: I feel like it's out there. And what we've been
Speaker 8: doing on this show is trying to put these dots together,
Speaker 8: you know. I mean, we talk about the psychic stuff,
Speaker 8: we talk about magic, we talk about all these different
Speaker 8: esoteric ideas and then try and bring them together somewhat,
Speaker 8: you know, so you can kind of makes sense of
Speaker 8: the world.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: That's what I was like, even trying to do with
Speaker 2: like the herbs and the colors and stuff, is like
Speaker 2: even showing that there's even legit science behind how some
Speaker 2: of this stuff works. You know, maybe people may not
Speaker 2: want to listen to it and believe it, but like
Speaker 2: it's it's I hate to say it, but whatever, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot more involved. I mean, even on
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 2: I don't know if Judith knows, is yeah, I even
Speaker 2: try to get into physiology, where I do even think
Speaker 2: a lot of occult symbolism and some stuff Crowley was
Speaker 2: talking about was legit inside your fucking eyeball in your brain.
Speaker 2: I actually believe that tent, that tent that we look
Speaker 2: at him Minerval. You have to say on after that,
Speaker 2: I swear it's the optic nerve. I'm telling you that
Speaker 2: is the part of the fucking eyeball right there in Minerval.
Speaker 2: I remember James even said, Minerval shows you everything if
Speaker 2: you know what you're looking at. And I think exactly
Speaker 2: some deep shit in Minerval. Believe it or not not
Speaker 2: to keep going on about it, but I do think,
Speaker 2: I do think I actually physiology. I think you know,
Speaker 2: Crowley was actually talking about that and some stuff that
Speaker 2: may not be something you knew about the show or
Speaker 2: knew about me since the last time we spoke, because
Speaker 2: I don't think I was.
Speaker 3: Telling you sit like that when I knew you, So
Speaker 3: that's new.
Speaker 5: We had time to contemplate a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right now, Matt, sorry fucking taking over
Speaker 2: the show normally, not just talkative.
Speaker 11: It's so good.
Speaker 12: I guess this one will be in flux since we
Speaker 12: don't have really a central theme. But yeah, Matt Moura
Speaker 12: can always find me at Mattmora nineteen. That's going to
Speaker 12: be on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, YouTube, Twitch, maybe some other place.
Speaker 12: And also, like Jin said, there's the Gray Lodge. We
Speaker 12: are going to do a spaces this Friday, and make
Speaker 12: sure to go there on Twitter or you can check
Speaker 12: out the archived version both on YouTube, the Grady Latch,
Speaker 12: or our website The True Ray Lodge with the v
Speaker 12: so True The True Ray Lodge dot com. Also my
Speaker 12: website Caballa dot com, k A A B A l
Speaker 12: a h dot com lock coal stuff there. Recently, I've
Speaker 12: been doing more on the side of tarot. I'm just
Speaker 12: doing some cool experiments. Actually, I shared on Twitter on
Speaker 12: my pin profile.
Speaker 3: Very nice that I did.
Speaker 11: I want to I want to work more of that.
Speaker 12: So if you want to be a beta tester, just
Speaker 12: DM me and I'll hook you up in the details.
Speaker 12: So a lot coo stuff there. Again, happy to be
Speaker 12: here regardless. It's always good to talk with the boys
Speaker 12: and the girls. So let's ferecking go.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, thank you very much, William Barkin whatever, I
Speaker 2: don't know, whatever ulteri ego you're using right now.
Speaker 13: Well, normally for topics like this religion and esso terrorism,
Speaker 13: I usually get with the branch, but I realized some
Speaker 13: people may not know who that who I am because
Speaker 13: on Twitter I warp as an umbrella scientist. So yeah, anyway,
Speaker 13: I just wanted to say thanks for hosting, by the way,
Speaker 13: and it's nice to meet you Judas and Aeros. And
Speaker 13: if I didn't say anything else, I would just like
Speaker 13: to remind people to, you know, be you know, keeping
Speaker 13: physical media, maybe archiving shows that you like like this,
Speaker 13: so on and so forth, because as we move further
Speaker 13: into this new aon comes with that, you know, this
Speaker 13: digital realm as it intensifies as well, you know, so personally,
Speaker 13: I feel like we're in like a silver age, Golden Age,
Speaker 13: whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1: Of the Internet.
Speaker 7: We just don't realize it, you know.
Speaker 13: So these opportunities to share space together, whether it be
Speaker 13: here or on Twitter, it's very sacred. So you know,
Speaker 13: just cherish it and you really appreciate it and interact
Speaker 13: with it, you know, because it's it's a synthesis thing,
Speaker 13: you know, Otherwise you can just talk to yourself, right,
Speaker 13: So yeah, it's special. Thank you guys for being here
Speaker 13: and those in the chat as well, and all shout
Speaker 13: out to Threshold Saints. Also, we do spaces every Friday
Speaker 13: night or every other Friday perhaps We're not really sure
Speaker 13: what kind of schedule we have yet, but and then
Speaker 13: on Wednesdays I'm gonna try to maybe start doing spaces
Speaker 13: as well. So anyway, thank you so much for hosting.
Speaker 3: No, of course, no, thank you.
Speaker 2: You know, I think some people, if you don't know
Speaker 2: it too, like if you want to get like a
Speaker 2: full night of occult ism in they're normally like running
Speaker 2: their show before we.
Speaker 3: Have a go live on a Friday.
Speaker 2: If we do so, like if people haven't really listened
Speaker 2: to it, you know, suggestic go check it out regardless.
Speaker 2: But yeah, sometimes when I'm booking shows. I'm like, these
Speaker 2: motherfuckers got their show on Friday. Man, I'll get a
Speaker 2: guess And I'm like a really one gin in man whoever,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, they got You know, I can't bitch though,
Speaker 2: you know that you're doing the damn thing.
Speaker 3: But uh yeah, definitely check out this stuff. That's really good.
Speaker 13: But that's kind of what we said, was that by
Speaker 13: doing it like every other Friday, it opens up space
Speaker 13: for other opportunities to like, for instance, right there would
Speaker 13: be an example just to point it out.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, thank you for coming on. And last,
Speaker 2: but not least finally, Ethan in the go what is
Speaker 2: going on, sir Puce?
Speaker 14: Everyone always excited to share my two cents and learn
Speaker 14: from you guys. And I love the synthesis and that idea.
Speaker 14: I'm a writer frequently putting together articles or ideas that
Speaker 14: kind of bring together the East and the West, and
Speaker 14: I like to explore the esoteric and the exoteric. And
Speaker 14: I'm totally an anti institutionalist, but I love learning from
Speaker 14: veterans of whatever the institution or group might be. In fact,
Speaker 14: I'll quote headless he may not even remember that he
Speaker 14: said this. The military is full of people doing secret
Speaker 14: ship right next to people cleaning ship.
Speaker 1: I thought that was the funniest I like that.
Speaker 7: I thought that was the funniest juxtaposition.
Speaker 14: UH that only someone that is a veteran would would
Speaker 14: be able to annunciate. So I look forward to hearing
Speaker 14: Nick and Judith your you guys experiences with the with
Speaker 14: the UH form aforementioned group that you guys were met.
Speaker 3: Are no, thank you.
Speaker 2: I'm really happy you made anything. Actually I wasn't sure
Speaker 2: if you were going to make it. But sorry again
Speaker 2: that you didn't show up.
Speaker 7: But I was looking forward to seeing her.
Speaker 14: I'm I think we all have an interest in her,
Speaker 14: in her work, so that hopefully.
Speaker 2: I love monetary stuff. So I was like, fuck, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: if you look at that. We even have another author
Speaker 2: on the show. He didn't need to be vetted. This
Speaker 2: guy wrote more books than her technically. Fuck actually, well,
Speaker 2: I would you consider yourself almost a prolific writer? I mean,
Speaker 2: you write besides books, you do write a lot too,
Speaker 2: don't you know the areas I mean you do constantly,
Speaker 2: right man?
Speaker 7: I mean I mean I don't know prolific.
Speaker 2: I will you're right enough though, I mean I guess.
Speaker 14: It's getting to be a pile. But I don't like
Speaker 14: to that's that word I think is a little bit.
Speaker 7: A little bit much.
Speaker 3: It's kind of pat I.
Speaker 7: Want to write and I want to share writing.
Speaker 14: I think it's uh, you know, a good endeavors as
Speaker 14: opposed to all the other things we could be doing
Speaker 14: in the.
Speaker 1: World, like.
Speaker 7: It's the world. World gets crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh yeah that's everybody, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: And uh, I guess we'll wrap it up, Judith, if
Speaker 2: you don't mind.
Speaker 3: Will you win the service?
Speaker 11: Yes?
Speaker 3: Actually I thought that's right, true, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, headless was in the reserves, right, the reserves
Speaker 2: or something like that. Yeah, oh you muted.
Speaker 8: Yeah, twelve years.
Speaker 5: Oh to me, I did eight years actively.
Speaker 3: Where did you go? If you don't mind me asking you?
Speaker 11: Uh?
Speaker 5: Overseas.
Speaker 4: I deployed the Haiti once and then I served in Germany,
Speaker 4: my my last tour.
Speaker 3: Oh sh how was Germany?
Speaker 5: Germany was wonderful.
Speaker 4: I want to go back, well not maybe right, not
Speaker 4: right now, but I always want to go back.
Speaker 2: I loved it nice, nice, Oh my god.
Speaker 3: I would have been in awe just of the architecture there.
Speaker 5: Oh, the architecture, the culture. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been through four decks?
Speaker 5: I went through Four Dicks. Actually, when you take the the.
Speaker 4: When you come back, if you want to be cheap,
Speaker 4: then you want to go to the Army Way.
Speaker 5: You know that's well? Is it still up? Did they
Speaker 5: close up the airport?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's it's good forever.
Speaker 8: But I was through there too.
Speaker 2: Yo, this is crazy. You remember you remember, I think
Speaker 2: probably from the OTO. I think I had to like
Speaker 2: fill out paperwork to justify why I went to prison.
Speaker 2: I think you knew I went to prison, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I did federal prison time, and I did it
Speaker 2: at Fort Dicks.
Speaker 3: I was literally in the barrack. I was. I was
Speaker 3: in the prison.
Speaker 2: Why this man was on the other side getting trained?
Speaker 2: How the fuck does that happen?
Speaker 5: How did we not run into each other?
Speaker 2: He didn't see me standing on the fence, though I
Speaker 2: wish I was free standing at the fence. Hold give
Speaker 2: me a cigarette.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's wild shit, dude.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I thought when he when somebody said so, yeah,
Speaker 2: mentioned something about uh, the service, and I show you
Speaker 2: you made a face and I was like, wait, I
Speaker 2: think she was in this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, had some gangster shit. I think. I remember when
Speaker 3: you told me that. I was like, wait what, Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's pretty cool.
Speaker 4: And I actually try to work a lot with the
Speaker 4: veteran as much as I can with the veteran community because.
Speaker 5: Recently that they were forgotten.
Speaker 2: If you don't mind, I just want to ask you
Speaker 2: a few more questions, just so you try to get
Speaker 2: a little bit of remembrance or whatever. When you when
Speaker 2: you were like practicing normally, were you doing, uh, did
Speaker 2: you do like the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram?
Speaker 2: You did do that? You did that stuff?
Speaker 5: To me, that's you have to do it. It's like.
Speaker 2: Making.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure we all know people who don't but.
Speaker 2: I made.
Speaker 5: But that was the wrong face. Yeah, some people I
Speaker 5: don't need to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just cool that I actually have like
Speaker 2: a female on the show that actually did the same
Speaker 2: rituals that I did.
Speaker 4: Well, you also have to remember I also have my
Speaker 4: background also, uh entails being wicked, so it was wicked practice.
Speaker 4: So cleansing your space is very very important no matter
Speaker 4: what you do to me, no matter what path, whether
Speaker 4: you stay on this path, or not.
Speaker 8: Well, the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram and a
Speaker 8: lot of formal uh situations inside wickup too, so like, yeah.
Speaker 5: It depends on which traditions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, It's almost like sometimes I've noticed
Speaker 2: too it almost seems like a mix of the lesser
Speaker 2: and the greater, because like I've seen like somewhere the
Speaker 2: wickens will like holl the towers, but you're not doing
Speaker 2: that until you're in the greater Pentagram.
Speaker 3: You're not doing that in.
Speaker 2: The lesser Pentagram, you know what I'm saying. So I've
Speaker 2: even seen like there almost seems to be a little
Speaker 2: bit of a mixed mix.
Speaker 4: But yeah, like it all depends on what tradition you
Speaker 4: train under, that on which way you do it. So
Speaker 4: but in high magic, I feel the less benefit that
Speaker 4: banishing rituals should be automatic.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5: Do it that will?
Speaker 3: Did you did you use the middle pillar?
Speaker 5: I love the middle pillar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I used to be.
Speaker 2: I thought about actually doing that again recently because it's
Speaker 2: just a meditation.
Speaker 5: I love the metal pillar.
Speaker 4: It's uh, I don't want to say it's a quick
Speaker 4: way of doing a chakra alignment, but that's how I felt.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, you hit five out of the seven.
Speaker 2: You know, what I really liked was the visuals that
Speaker 2: you had to like kind of create, like the stuff
Speaker 2: swirling around and swirling down you.
Speaker 3: I don't know why that.
Speaker 2: I always thought like if I got it, if it
Speaker 2: started to happen, I was always like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this is so sick.
Speaker 5: The question is which version do you like doing? You know,
Speaker 5: the Hebrew version and then you have the plymic version.
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, I see. I only did the Hebrew version,
Speaker 2: and then I started fucking around with an Egyptian version,
Speaker 2: and I only did that a few times. And then
Speaker 2: around there I stopped fucking around with magic and I.
Speaker 5: Found each one gives me different results.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have heard that, especially with the thlemic one
Speaker 2: and the for the other one.
Speaker 10: I have a sorry, guys, I have a quick follow
Speaker 10: up for Judah. Just it's a personal question. If you
Speaker 10: don't want to answer you, that's totally okay. But when
Speaker 10: you were Wickan, what pantheon did you prefer? So that's
Speaker 10: question maybe A, and then question B would be I
Speaker 10: we like for the gray lodge, we called a middle pillar,
Speaker 10: specifically a middle pillar group, and so Sola and I
Speaker 10: interviewed Gregory Peters, who wrote the New a on TNTRA.
Speaker 10: He was heavily involved with a on of Mott workings
Speaker 10: in the nineties with Anemma, and.
Speaker 1: He also wrote a.
Speaker 10: Sort of his book has a ritual like a Middle
Speaker 10: Pillar ritual, and he kind of does a little TNTRA
Speaker 10: with a little new Eat and like, I didn't really
Speaker 10: fully understand it because I don't have a ceremonial like
Speaker 10: magic background, but I think that Nick should probably get
Speaker 10: him on eventually, and yeah, let's let's do that. But
Speaker 10: I'm sorry, but I wanted to know why you like
Speaker 10: the Middle Pillar because it is like just even at
Speaker 10: face value, for me, it's like even the idea is
Speaker 10: profound rather than it's like it's not edge Lord, but
Speaker 10: it's still magic, so it still has like that transgressivity
Speaker 10: of what magic is.
Speaker 5: I think once I tell you which which did I prefer?
Speaker 5: You don't understand why I like the Middle Pillar.
Speaker 4: Uh, And she's not very popular actually, but Mott, the
Speaker 4: DDY I'd love to work with is Mott, which actually
Speaker 4: falls in place because it brings everything in balance.
Speaker 10: That's interesting because that is the that's the aonic deity
Speaker 10: sort of if you use the Egyptian system.
Speaker 3: Yeah, aren't you kind of all about mott in no
Speaker 3: sense jin?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 10: I mapped it to a contrac goddess called Kurra Kula
Speaker 10: who wields a bow and arrow, but she's very It's
Speaker 10: a very similar kind of idea. And for me, I
Speaker 10: put it on Path twenty two, so the lamed path
Speaker 10: because I said the keyword, because obviously Curly didn't give
Speaker 10: a keyword, so I said that, Actually the keyword is
Speaker 10: not what Frederichad said, which is ahava, or what Nema said,
Speaker 10: which is so. So I said, it's lamed. Me'm delette,
Speaker 10: which you and I have talked about many times. Second,
Speaker 10: it's obviously love is the cause of knowledge, so love
Speaker 10: is the way to take you all the way to die. Sorry,
Speaker 10: I didn't mean to like big up myself. It just
Speaker 10: was the that is the that is sort of the
Speaker 10: owner the daughter like in a nutshell, that's the cabala
Speaker 10: that we did for the great lunch, like all four
Speaker 10: of us.
Speaker 5: You have to look into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I'm trying to think else too? Uh? Did
Speaker 2: you ever get into the hexagram me?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: You, Judith, Yes, I haven't got I never got into that.
Speaker 4: That's usually when I stepped away a little, when I
Speaker 4: when I got stuck in the Malcoo's like I told you,
Speaker 4: and I had a certain I have a strict rule.
Speaker 4: If things aren't completely correct, I can't say perfect. I
Speaker 4: don't progress. I try to fix what's going on because
Speaker 4: it's usually a sign. It's like a danger sign to
Speaker 4: me if you're you're not in the right mindset.
Speaker 5: That so I do want to.
Speaker 4: I wanted to play with the hexagram a little, but
Speaker 4: unfortunately life got in the way.
Speaker 2: No I could understand that.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just wondering, did you ever do the
Speaker 2: star Ruby I love? Oh, okay, start.
Speaker 3: All right, that's impressive. Nice, nice, Okay, that.
Speaker 11: But it's been years.
Speaker 5: It's been years.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, plus it's in fucking what Greek?
Speaker 3: Right, So for like me, i'd have to like.
Speaker 2: Read, I probably have to go watch a video and
Speaker 2: actually see someone do it to like be able to
Speaker 2: spurt all of it out. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think I think there's there's a document. I think
Speaker 4: there's a PDF somewhere where it breaks it all down
Speaker 4: for you.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's a few about the actually yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's how I learned it too. It was through out
Speaker 2: the book and the videos. But yeah, I was just wondering.
Speaker 2: I guess I was almost positive that you actually like did, like,
Speaker 2: you know, did ritual work like circles.
Speaker 3: I used that everybody.
Speaker 4: Does to be seriously into ritual work, but I approached
Speaker 4: it as if like a scientist doing experiments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I know what you mean, though, so I
Speaker 2: know exactly what you mean. There was even times it
Speaker 2: was like, you know what I'm gonna work with this,
Speaker 2: just this, I don't know. I guess to try it
Speaker 2: out right, like it's a sphere on the tree, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I know it kind of sounds like careless,
Speaker 2: but I don't know.
Speaker 12: And then when you do that and you can have
Speaker 12: both like the logic emotion thing like Jupiters, then it
Speaker 12: gets It's fascinating because because then you have the basis, right, is.
Speaker 11: What I was talking about.
Speaker 12: The tarrot experience I can share real quick, but like
Speaker 12: in short, I took seventy two weeks of doing a
Speaker 12: tarot reading for the week, and then out of those
Speaker 12: seventy two twenty four I did it daily, so like
Speaker 12: I would do it on Sunday and then I would
Speaker 12: do the week one and then Monday, the daily one, Tuesday,
Speaker 12: Wednesday and soso so on, and then I had everything
Speaker 12: and I was always like trying to note down the synchronicities,
Speaker 12: how would that relate to how.
Speaker 11: I understand the Terrordansson. But what was.
Speaker 12: Fascinating is that by the end of it, the seventy
Speaker 12: second week, I got all of them into like a
Speaker 12: data thing, and then I made a dashboard to understand. Okay,
Speaker 12: for example, what were the ones that I got the
Speaker 12: most out of the top four. I got four court cards,
Speaker 12: which were the first one being the when you match
Speaker 12: when you make the mapping would be my moon sign,
Speaker 12: my astrology moon sign, the second one my son signed.
Speaker 11: The third one the element.
Speaker 12: That I have the least and it was a page,
Speaker 12: and then the other one my ascended like my rising sign.
Speaker 12: When I saw that, I was what the fuck? Because
Speaker 12: what are the odds you know? Of all those cards
Speaker 12: and then those be exactly the ones for my map.
Speaker 12: I even run some math afterwards with the help of
Speaker 12: AI to understand it, and it was like one in
Speaker 12: fifty two million or something for my chart to be
Speaker 12: my chart and those cards to be the cards that
Speaker 12: dot out. So when you have that, it's kind of
Speaker 12: hard to say, Okay, it's not connected somehow to something right,
Speaker 12: that there is something there And that's even to me,
Speaker 12: that's just the chair on the top, because when you
Speaker 12: take into account the synchronicities that happen, and I'm using character,
Speaker 12: you can use any other definition too, you can even
Speaker 12: create one.
Speaker 11: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 12: As long as it's based on the tree than anything works.
Speaker 12: But when you notice the synchronicity is then it's crazy,
Speaker 12: like you just see how there are many more things
Speaker 12: happening in this reality that our five senses cannot just
Speaker 12: catch it.
Speaker 11: You know, you have to.
Speaker 12: Really think more broadly, more abstractly, and Swanen being a
Speaker 12: scientist about it definitely helps make sense of it all
Speaker 12: at least a little bit so, And I completely agree
Speaker 12: with what Nick and the others were talking about how
Speaker 12: more and more like technology and so on, it will
Speaker 12: be a thing more so than you know, what we
Speaker 12: had past AONs. And you can see that happening like
Speaker 12: everywhere right, Like you can see, for example, there are
Speaker 12: many things going on, many technology is going out that
Speaker 12: kind of not disprove but make it really hard for
Speaker 12: you to be a hardcore religious like, oh, I just
Speaker 12: believe the mythology because there's like literally a tool that
Speaker 12: will do the thing that the mythology was saying. Oh,
Speaker 12: it's all mystical. It's like, bro, there's literally a tool.
Speaker 12: Like now we understand more or less how it works.
Speaker 12: Sometimes it's like a black box, but we kind of
Speaker 12: know how it works, so it's not really, you know,
Speaker 12: like something mystical from the outside of this one. So
Speaker 12: it's really fascinating to see. And the more like, because
Speaker 12: I work with technology, the more you see.
Speaker 11: It, the.
Speaker 12: Crazier it gets. Sometimes we got to step down sometimes
Speaker 12: round ourselves.
Speaker 11: But three nice.
Speaker 2: Thank you man. Oh so uh headless or general whoever.
Speaker 2: I don't anybody got an idea of uh what we
Speaker 2: were saying, we're gonna talk about instead. I think we
Speaker 2: could talk about her book. That's fun.
Speaker 3: She didn't even have to come here and now we're
Speaker 3: promoting it. See that's even another thing you hear that
Speaker 3: I get.
Speaker 2: I'm sure, well, maybe not listening to it anymore, but
Speaker 2: I'm sure she was listening to make sure I didn't
Speaker 2: shuttle over Georgina Rose. If you still listen, I mean, look,
Speaker 2: come on, Jen even read your book.
Speaker 9: Come on, you know hop in here?
Speaker 3: Yeah you still got the link.
Speaker 9: Come on, I wanted to nerd out on astrology.
Speaker 2: I know that was you know, I loved the planetary magic.
Speaker 2: That was my fucking thing and all I would assign
Speaker 2: it to the Tree of Life. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: planetary theorgy. I got plenty of experience at myself.
Speaker 3: I was like, let's go.
Speaker 2: I was like, what the fuck are really I don't
Speaker 2: understand that.
Speaker 3: It's like, you, did you.
Speaker 2: Watch the show before? You said yes?
Speaker 10: Well, I'll give her props in one way is that
Speaker 10: she actually correctly recognized that the planetary names are the
Speaker 10: outermost density of the cepha, so the planets themselves are
Speaker 10: actually kleep us, which, of course, if you watch Rejects
Speaker 10: or if you watch The Gray Lodge, or if you
Speaker 10: listen to my show, you know that I agree with this.
Speaker 10: So I have to say, like, I'm not like a
Speaker 10: huge fan. I barely even knew who she was before
Speaker 10: Nick told me. But that's actually impressive in and of itself,
Speaker 10: because that is kind of a fundamental problem that a
Speaker 10: lot of people who consider themselves like magicians or pagans
Speaker 10: or anything that's A big mistake that a lot of
Speaker 10: them make is they think the planets themselves are these
Speaker 10: kinds of rulers, these fixed rulers of destiny. But I
Speaker 10: think astrology is a lot more as Matt said in Flux,
Speaker 10: and I think that we are much more agential, and
Speaker 10: I think we are much more agential in our own wills.
Speaker 10: And I think that's also what the AON is about.
Speaker 10: The new AON. It's about recognizing that not necessarily that
Speaker 10: we're more like free of the demiurge or whatever cosmology
Speaker 10: you want to use, but that we can actually say
Speaker 10: in perception, like we actually are free to choose our
Speaker 10: own destiny and we don't have to be like, your
Speaker 10: chart is not who you are. It's just an indication
Speaker 10: of your karmas. It's not fixed. And if you need
Speaker 10: proof of that, just study TNTRA because tntraposits an ontological
Speaker 10: solution for all astrological concerns.
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would say fate changes, but necessity doesn't.
Speaker 2: I'm still trying to think about the clip of being
Speaker 2: the planets. I mean, I do think there's interesting way
Speaker 2: to look at it, but like even like milanetary energy,
Speaker 2: so yeah, like that would be kind of like one
Speaker 2: of the lowest forms really going by other things.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, I guess I could see, like I
Speaker 3: see where you're going.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's not it's above that you would have,
Speaker 2: you know, archangel order of angels. So I mean, I
Speaker 2: guess it's really I mean it's not that you see,
Speaker 2: I see where I guess I can see where you're
Speaker 2: going with that to an extent, Well.
Speaker 10: It's very Hebrew, right, So maybe that's why it's like
Speaker 10: it's different in a way because the suffer are empty,
Speaker 10: so they're more and much more like stars. I'm not
Speaker 10: saying they are stars, but that is how to think
Speaker 10: of them as empty. So a planet that is composed
Speaker 10: of gravity densities, just like a sufferer, it has ice
Speaker 10: aggregation from the rock all the gases likes.
Speaker 3: Is gravity fucked already?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 3: The game over?
Speaker 9: I think into form art archetypes, right, they're like but
Speaker 9: some stuff I know, like some people relate some of
Speaker 9: them to planets, but not all of them are related
Speaker 9: to a planet. And then yeah, if you believe in
Speaker 9: the hierarchy with angels, the archangels, I mean typically those
Speaker 9: are associated with the different planets, and it's like there's
Speaker 9: like the planetary forces and then there's like the actual
Speaker 9: causality of how those forces play out or the actual
Speaker 9: decisions made, or you could almost say like the algorithmic
Speaker 9: part that tips things one way or the other. Like
Speaker 9: I feel like usually that's associated with the archangels assigned
Speaker 9: to each planet. But you know that is like highly debated,
Speaker 9: where like some neoplatonists believe in that concept, in that hierarchy,
Speaker 9: but like the Stoics, for example, wouldn't they don't think that,
Speaker 9: like the archangels are like unnecessary part of metaphysics.
Speaker 1: I think it depends.
Speaker 10: I think that, you know, like I like Ramak, I
Speaker 10: like Rabbi Cordovero, I like even Rabbi Larrius, I like
Speaker 10: all the kind of.
Speaker 1: I'm not a.
Speaker 10: Hermetic Kabala guy, so that is perhaps the difference. Is
Speaker 10: I'm really like a I hate to shout him out again, Nick,
Speaker 10: but it's a David Heimsmith kind of thing. Like i
Speaker 10: approach Kabala in a more Hebrew way, but I'm not Jewish,
Speaker 10: and I'm also like a Buddhist, so it makes more
Speaker 10: sense to me to approach it in a nondual and
Speaker 10: non theistic way. So I agree that the sepher are
Speaker 10: not archetypes per se, but there are archetypes within, bundled
Speaker 10: into the conceptual ideas, just like there are colors superficial density,
Speaker 10: and then there are inner more colors. That's how I
Speaker 10: relate to the suffer the most, is with colors and
Speaker 10: names or words if you prefer.
Speaker 9: So.
Speaker 10: The urt Changels are not the rulers of the planets
Speaker 10: in the Jewish system.
Speaker 1: They're just associated with the suffer.
Speaker 10: But the planets themselves have their own planetary rulers, planetary
Speaker 10: hosts of the planetary God.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's even like, was it the Olympic? The Olympic
Speaker 2: spirits might actually sound like that when they're described. There's
Speaker 2: a there's other I didn't even realize that there is
Speaker 2: other other planetary associations. That does make it sound like
Speaker 2: they're ruling over something. But yeah, the regular Medica Bella,
Speaker 2: the way you're talking about it does. They're just like
Speaker 2: associated with it. It's almost like that person's character fits
Speaker 2: what we're trying to tell you. Here's what you're.
Speaker 11: Trying to say, an example, an example of a good footballer.
Speaker 11: You're going to say like Bill or I'll do whatever, But.
Speaker 12: Then you wouldn't necessarily say that they are just that
Speaker 12: they are still like men and human and fathers and
Speaker 12: whatever or whatever, like their older things as well. Or
Speaker 12: there could be other people that do what they do
Speaker 12: but in like a worst way, so they wouldn't be
Speaker 12: the best example for you to give for other peoples.
Speaker 10: Of comment in the chat, sorry about Pico how we
Speaker 10: found like a Christian truth inside Kabbalah.
Speaker 1: I also agree with that.
Speaker 10: To be honest, I'm not a Christian and I'm not
Speaker 10: going to be Christian, but I'm just saying that there
Speaker 10: is an if you want to call ann of the sun,
Speaker 10: there's an an of the a a kind of of
Speaker 10: the sun truth in Kabala like you can prove, like
Speaker 10: you can prove, there's like a teperatic consciousness that you
Speaker 10: can rise up to, just like the universal hexagram. That's
Speaker 10: really what it's referring to. And then if you have
Speaker 10: your strong enough will, you can pass through. But it
Speaker 10: takes a prepared heart, a gilded heart. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3: Oh, you know what I've noticed. I found it interesting.
Speaker 2: One time I was like looking at a like a
Speaker 2: document where it was showing like I think it was
Speaker 2: like NASA had a problem with their mirrors. Yeah, in
Speaker 2: the in the in the telescope, the Hubbard telescope, something
Speaker 2: went off on their mirrors and then they decided to
Speaker 2: show a diagram about how the mirrors are supposed to reflect,
Speaker 2: and it's a universal like sagram. I was like, that's
Speaker 2: fucking If I found it, I'll send it to you.
Speaker 15: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I look for it after the show and I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, And you know, Crowley didn't come up
Speaker 2: with that either, right, Yeah, he didn't actually invent that.
Speaker 2: Somebody else did.
Speaker 5: No, it wasn't that. What didn't that come from the
Speaker 5: Golden Dot?
Speaker 3: No, it was prior to that. It's like eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: I think this guy guy did it.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's a lot of people think he
Speaker 3: came over with it.
Speaker 2: He actually did. Yeah, but uh yeah, it was interesting.
Speaker 2: I just figured i'd tell you that this is another
Speaker 2: interesting fun factor.
Speaker 4: So you know, I'm a type of person who once
Speaker 4: I hear it, I have to look it up and
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 2: To re look at it. But h Jen, I kind
Speaker 2: of understand a little bit where you're going with that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could see it's a very interesting way
Speaker 2: to look at it.
Speaker 3: It's no, it's a little different, you know. No, it
Speaker 3: is no for sure, but I mean I.
Speaker 1: Guess gnostic, a little neo gnostic.
Speaker 2: I'm putting yeah, No, I guess yeah, But I mean
Speaker 2: I guess like the way I always say, like I think,
Speaker 2: once you put in the form, you're kind of screwed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it doesn't sound great for being a human,
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 2: But like if if I look at it that way,
Speaker 2: I guess the planet's put into the phone like it's
Speaker 2: screwed too.
Speaker 10: Well, this is going to be followed away from God.
Speaker 10: I mean, you're right, but there I think that. Like
Speaker 10: what why I asked them Judith the middle pillar question
Speaker 10: right at the front was because this actually is all
Speaker 10: rectifiable in the middle pillar, Like you don't take extremes
Speaker 10: of like going say, oh I'm an antibody gnostic or
Speaker 10: I'm a hedonist kind of gnostic where you're just like
Speaker 10: enjoying the earthly pleasures. You're actually like moderating yourself in
Speaker 10: your own mind, so like in Yasode in the nine.
Speaker 10: So if you're able to do that, then you're going
Speaker 10: to be able to climb the tree a lot more easily,
Speaker 10: in my opinion. That's just my opinion. But I'm just
Speaker 10: I think that that makes sense. But you don't want
Speaker 10: to also be like I have a lot of Hebrew
Speaker 10: Cabbala friends like that are Jewish, like ascetic Jewish, and
Speaker 10: so they they tend to stay at Yesoda consciousness. I'm
Speaker 10: not putting them down. They're extremely brilliant people, physicists and mathematicians,
Speaker 10: but they tend to stay at esdic consciousness. When I
Speaker 10: say at yesodic consciousness, I get depressed. I have to
Speaker 10: be a little more dynamic than that, just for me,
Speaker 10: because everybody's a little different, right, everybody's like has their
Speaker 10: own bullshit, their own aggregations. So for me, I have
Speaker 10: to like travel the tree a little more frequently than
Speaker 10: just like stay at yasode and you know, be a receptor.
Speaker 10: So I like to actually be kind of free, if
Speaker 10: you want to call that. So of course I'm going
Speaker 10: to push the a little more of a transgressive not
Speaker 10: transgressive necessarily, but it's it's definitely I'm more ra a.
Speaker 1: Call idea of the planets.
Speaker 10: This is true in Tantra though, that the planets are
Speaker 10: minor arcons, not greater arcons. They're not they're and they're
Speaker 10: definitely not in control of our destiny. That's how we
Speaker 10: would think of it. But we're a very free agent.
Speaker 10: Like TNTRA has a very free agency kind of idea
Speaker 10: like religious framework, So it's not going to perfectly map onto.
Speaker 10: I know that there's the book on Hollenic TNTRA and
Speaker 10: like we can have a whole ten shows on that.
Speaker 10: But you know, for us, like a more central Asian view,
Speaker 10: you're very free. It's but it's all about choices, and
Speaker 10: then that is your causality. That is what makes your
Speaker 10: karma is your choices. Right now, even in your mind.
Speaker 9: I somewhat agree, because you know, that's why Prometheus kind
Speaker 9: of stole that fire to give us that free will,
Speaker 9: and that kind of pissed Zeus off because then we
Speaker 9: did have the free will to make our own choices,
Speaker 9: and you know, the cosmos, the gods no longer had
Speaker 9: full power over us.
Speaker 10: One hundred percent is Prometheus rising, Jason Georgeohnny, come on,
Speaker 10: I'll call Rey checks and threshold saints.
Speaker 12: And then imagine when that happens again. Because history is
Speaker 12: cyclical with the AI agents and stuff.
Speaker 11: So we think beyond them.
Speaker 12: Them, but at some point they're just that they control
Speaker 12: themselves and news of themselves, and what beck are you
Speaker 12: gonna do?
Speaker 11: We're gonna do that.
Speaker 2: Sort of lose that. Man, hell, has you got anything?
Speaker 2: There's gotta be something going on in that US.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I want to know did this Hellenic contra come out
Speaker 8: of Hellenic Buddhism, because there was a time period in
Speaker 8: the uh uh era after Alexander where they actually had
Speaker 8: a fusion between Buddhist and Hellenic cultures. I didn't know
Speaker 8: if that was actually related.
Speaker 1: It's a new book.
Speaker 10: I saw a PD Newman promoting it. I've read it someone.
Speaker 10: I think Gregory Peter is actually recommended. I read it,
Speaker 10: so it's not. Actually it's an interesting question what you're positing, Like,
Speaker 10: was there a Gandharvian Buddhism.
Speaker 1: I actually think you heard of it, So yeah, I
Speaker 1: just no, I think you.
Speaker 10: Can actually make a case for a Gandharan Buddhism, like
Speaker 10: in northern Afghanistan, and like, I don't think that there
Speaker 10: was Hellenic per se, but I think it was deeply
Speaker 10: influenced by certain Hellenic ideas that were like left over
Speaker 10: in the like Afghanistan, kind of cultural region the Gandhara.
Speaker 10: So I agree actually Helpless that I think it's it exists,
Speaker 10: but has there been like massive scholarship on it now.
Speaker 10: But someone wrote a book and they basically were looking
Speaker 10: at the Mediterranean basin and then they just called it tantra.
Speaker 10: But I think that fundamentally misunderstands what tantra is. Tantra's
Speaker 10: like very specifically essentral Asian formations for the very simple
Speaker 10: fact that it posits the center of the world as Kashmir.
Speaker 10: So if you understand that, you'll understand why it focuses
Speaker 10: towards that region. Like all the all the ideas, it says,
Speaker 10: this is where it's coming from, even if it's syncretic,
Speaker 10: it's coming from here. It's not looking at Greece and saying, oh,
Speaker 10: this is where it comes from. But there's absolutely like
Speaker 10: a Mahayana tradition, like Nick showing right now, grecopodism right there.
Speaker 12: So I.
Speaker 9: Had a question because I guess if you're coming from
Speaker 9: it as the planets are Arkhans, then does that make
Speaker 9: you anti order? I mean, does that make you anti mad?
Speaker 10: No, because I position it on the this is for me,
Speaker 10: eros is I always poss on the paths. So by
Speaker 10: saying that, I'm saying you have to bring it into materialization.
Speaker 10: You have to bring it into pragmatism. You have to
Speaker 10: bring it into the real world. You can't just exist
Speaker 10: in like the greater Aonic concepts like look at Croley.
Speaker 10: I'm not putting it down like I've I've come a
Speaker 10: long way in my evolution of like understanding of Tolemic
Speaker 10: ideas and Crowley and all of that. But I think
Speaker 10: that it's important that the Aon arises because they un
Speaker 10: first of all, rises in your own mind, not some skyfairy.
Speaker 10: But number two that I think it's important that arises
Speaker 10: on the paths, because we are of the paths. So
Speaker 10: Theon should walk with us, or we should walk with
Speaker 10: however you want to phrase that we should walk with
Speaker 10: the Aon rather than you know, uh, it's it's not
Speaker 10: just like a celestial being, but of course it can
Speaker 10: also be right. I'm not saying it it's not. I'm
Speaker 10: just saying that we should like make it of a reality.
Speaker 10: So like if her themes are like justice, balance, fairness,
Speaker 10: like all of these kinds of things, that that those
Speaker 10: then are the Iomic ideals, So I don't know if
Speaker 10: that directly answers your question, but I'm I'm very pro
Speaker 10: mod obviously, but I'm I would say I'm anti arconic,
Speaker 10: so maybe a syncretic nastic in a way.
Speaker 9: I come from the belief that it's just best to
Speaker 9: align to the cosmic order. But I love hearing other
Speaker 9: people's thoughts on it.
Speaker 2: Do you know you've into a lot of planetary stuff,
Speaker 2: So I obviously was planetary theory, so I figured I
Speaker 2: just said.
Speaker 10: No, it's a great question, because I think there's so
Speaker 10: much to be learned from. Like obviously, when we've done
Speaker 10: shows on it in the past, I've talked about like
Speaker 10: my early experiences of being like thirteen fourteen reading Agrippa
Speaker 10: or reading the Greater and Lesser Keys, and how I
Speaker 10: would play with all the planetary seals, like obviously from
Speaker 10: a more chaot sort of perspective of like, let's figure
Speaker 10: out how to like retechno, like reformulate the technology so
Speaker 10: I don't have to, like, as we used to call it,
Speaker 10: dress up and larp, and so I always was interested
Speaker 10: in the planetary things, So I think that actually laid
Speaker 10: the groundwork for me to have later sepharatic experiences. But
Speaker 10: I don't necessarily think that doing the planetary magic was
Speaker 10: Like if I could go back and change it, I
Speaker 10: would have actually told my younger self to study Kabala
Speaker 10: if I'm being honest.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I wish I studied it earlier.
Speaker 10: Yeah, rather than do planetary magic, because planetary magic is
Speaker 10: actually it's the first principle sort of, but it's also
Speaker 10: sort of complicated, and it's about, like you and I
Speaker 10: have talked about this so many times, like, desire is
Speaker 10: not the same as will, and when you're like seventeen,
Speaker 10: you do things of desire that you think is your will.
Speaker 10: And I wish I just would have been more grown
Speaker 10: up in my personal appraisal of it. So it's not
Speaker 10: like I dislike planetary magic, but I just think I
Speaker 10: got lost in it.
Speaker 1: So people can do as they will, as Jus said.
Speaker 10: So brilliantly, like that is kind of my theme too,
Speaker 10: like as I well, but you know, just in my perspective,
Speaker 10: I just wish I could have gone back and like
Speaker 10: shaken myself and been like, you need to figure out
Speaker 10: what your will actually is and it's not the same
Speaker 10: as like your desire.
Speaker 3: Oh you beauty to you if you're trying to say
Speaker 3: anything you don't know.
Speaker 5: I said that that is very true.
Speaker 6: People mistake their will for their wants, and that's where
Speaker 6: we tend to misstep when dealing with iron magic.
Speaker 3: I totally agree with that.
Speaker 9: True free will is what brings suffering to some extent.
Speaker 2: Hello's we you went to planetary stuff? No, not really, Okay,
Speaker 2: you're into theogy.
Speaker 8: Uh well, different forms of meditation, yeah, hypnosis and that
Speaker 8: kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: So nice.
Speaker 2: I know, I was just wondering if I could get
Speaker 2: you in on some planetary shit.
Speaker 8: But well, certainly can write a guide of meditation using
Speaker 8: you know, hypnosis and all of the imagery from planetary
Speaker 8: stuff to kind of imbue a little bit of that energy.
Speaker 8: I think it changes a perspective. Right when you're bringing
Speaker 8: different planetary energies into your life, it automatically has a
Speaker 8: shift in perception that goes along with it. So once
Speaker 8: you start to identify that, you can you can better
Speaker 8: you know, understand maybe a better path to go down.
Speaker 8: But you know, there's there's lots of different affects that
Speaker 8: go along with sort of extended periods of meditation or
Speaker 8: you know, magical practice.
Speaker 3: H yeah, even the uh.
Speaker 2: Even like I was even saying like even colors and
Speaker 2: stuff to make a difference, Like even like I noticed
Speaker 2: how on that thing that I was covering the colors
Speaker 2: that like some of them, like even when I was
Speaker 2: going over like kind of like how they looked at
Speaker 2: in science, it was like this almost kind of matches
Speaker 2: how the colors looked at like if you threw it
Speaker 2: on a several you know, or like what is match
Speaker 2: with planetary its Like it's kind of interesting. It's almost
Speaker 2: like a thing that just was cross culture.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, all these different societies would have this huge like
Speaker 8: cabinet of references that they would plug into all the
Speaker 8: different planets, all the different I mean, this was how
Speaker 8: they made associations in the world. It was all through
Speaker 8: observing these similarities and then classifying them using that kind
Speaker 8: of observational method. And that's how they got to know
Speaker 8: the spirits. It's a very superficial process. But getting to
Speaker 8: know the spirits in the meantime, so it's the outer
Speaker 8: and the inner life of of everything sort of. It's
Speaker 8: it's kind of energetic flavor.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's like intuitive dialectic and then if you really
Speaker 9: get alchemical with it, you know, then it can almost
Speaker 9: feel like uh, even prima materia. You know, it's all astrological,
Speaker 9: it's all all metaphysics is kind of tied to the
Speaker 9: twelve and too the four into the three and.
Speaker 7: Something I just learned recently.
Speaker 14: Through the Occult rejects Nick forgive me what is his
Speaker 14: last name, Jamie.
Speaker 3: Jimmie pol Yeah, Jimmie Polan.
Speaker 14: He shared a word that I have never heard before,
Speaker 14: but it really leads, I think, to me at least
Speaker 14: a fuller understanding of magic.
Speaker 7: Uh, symthemata Is that right?
Speaker 5: Is it?
Speaker 7: Am I saying it correctly? Do you remember that word?
Speaker 9: They say sympathia sometimes like the platon Yeah, sympathia, cosmic.
Speaker 7: Club, thank you else.
Speaker 14: I just thought that was such a great way to
Speaker 14: understand the coordination and the relationships and bringing together all
Speaker 14: these things that are in alignment with the pursuit of
Speaker 14: the whatever magic you're you're putting forth right, So that
Speaker 14: was a great word. And I couldn't remember maybe it
Speaker 14: was synthamata here, but we could have been something something different.
Speaker 7: It's the same thing. It's the same thing.
Speaker 8: That's the Greek version, and she was using a love version.
Speaker 9: I actually might have that open in my timis right now.
Speaker 14: Uh, helped me understand some things that I've been intuitively pursuing.
Speaker 14: But he put it in that concrete term that really
Speaker 14: you know, made it made it a stream of sense,
Speaker 14: sensible approach.
Speaker 1: That was three syncredicities.
Speaker 9: Actually, the video that I'm putting out, uh, I'm I'm
Speaker 9: starting it out by explaining sympathia and cosmic order because
Speaker 9: it seems like you have to in order to to
Speaker 9: then contrast it with chaos and stuff like that. But yeah,
Speaker 9: it's it's uh, it's the ideal forms and base pieces
Speaker 9: of matter. So like the four elements and then obviously
Speaker 9: the three the soul for mercury and help me out headless,
Speaker 9: so thank you, yes, or those also correspond to the soul,
Speaker 9: spirit and body, and so it's just like yeah, basically
Speaker 9: these ideal or yeah, these base parts. So then this
Speaker 9: idea almost like everything is happening at once. It's just
Speaker 9: unfolding into.
Speaker 10: Free body problem. That's what we call them, Buddhism tree kayah,
Speaker 10: three body problem. All things are all that's happening at
Speaker 10: one time, but you perceive them in the three worlds. Yeah,
Speaker 10: well we're obviously we're nondual, right, so we have a
Speaker 10: totally different ontological ideas.
Speaker 1: Of the world.
Speaker 10: But I just wanted to like go back to that
Speaker 10: thing that you were asking a little bit before, and
Speaker 10: I wondered if you were familiar with a Gnostic figure
Speaker 10: called Nuria, and she's a prominent character in the Epinoia
Speaker 10: of Nuria. And so in the way that I sort
Speaker 10: of formulated with obviously not just me, but in the
Speaker 10: gray Lodge that we did, it is that we said
Speaker 10: that the Aon could also be compared to this Gnostic Aon,
Speaker 10: and so she actually is kind of God's daughter, but
Speaker 10: it's not really, that's not really the story. But the
Speaker 10: idea is that she actually burns the arcs of the
Speaker 10: Arkons down. And one of the important stories in her
Speaker 10: gospel is that the angels who are of the lesser
Speaker 10: they're considered lesser angels, but in the.
Speaker 1: Gnostic cosmology they're actually higher angels.
Speaker 10: So they tell her that everything that the Arkons tell
Speaker 10: you is a lie because it's just in your mind.
Speaker 1: It's just like delusions.
Speaker 10: And so the way to cut through the bullshit is
Speaker 10: to just say, like everything that is not at that
Speaker 10: sort of place of pristine awareness or like Rigpa or
Speaker 10: diamond thunder, or however you want to describe it, sort
Speaker 10: of like that prime consciousness.
Speaker 2: The fifth.
Speaker 10: The space you could say, Akasha. If it's not there,
Speaker 10: then it's arconic. So it's not I'm not like I said,
Speaker 10: I'm not. I don't posit it as like order v. Chaos.
Speaker 10: I think it's an interplay, and I think it's like
Speaker 10: a synthesis as well as a rectification. And I think
Speaker 10: that we should always This is just my idea as
Speaker 10: a cabolysis is not I'm not teaching anyone or saying
Speaker 10: that my idea is the best.
Speaker 1: I don't think that.
Speaker 10: But I think that when we're in the tree, we
Speaker 10: should always try and be dynamic and at both differ anyisode,
Speaker 10: and it should be like a die, like you said,
Speaker 10: like a dialectical relationship between those two things, the higher
Speaker 10: and the lower consciousness, the waking and the sleeping mind.
Speaker 3: Thank you sir.
Speaker 2: Anything else you guys wanted to talk about truth.
Speaker 8: I just think it's kind of interesting how we're approaching
Speaker 8: the same sort of consciousness problem on so many different levels,
Speaker 8: and that's like it's representative of occultism. I think so
Speaker 8: you've got the standard scientist, which you know, he knows
Speaker 8: how to push one button on the elevator, right, he
Speaker 8: knows how to get to that floor, and how to
Speaker 8: do his thing. But then you've got the occult scientist
Speaker 8: who's always pushing all of the buttons in the elevator
Speaker 8: just to find out what each one of them does
Speaker 8: along the way. And I think that's that's sort of
Speaker 8: emblematic of what a lot of the Kabbala stuff really is.
Speaker 8: It's bringing all that stuff together into one synthesis.
Speaker 9: Yeah. Well, and it's it's interesting too because it's like,
Speaker 9: I think there is this big theme in the occult
Speaker 9: of order versus you know, I would say chaos. I
Speaker 9: guess where it's like to me if if you take
Speaker 9: away the you know, the the order which I associate
Speaker 9: with the good, then the cosmos falls apart. But you know,
Speaker 9: I do see a lot of these themes in magic
Speaker 9: where that is that idea where it's like, you know,
Speaker 9: your subconscious is made up of all of these patterns
Speaker 9: because we can't help but you know, do dialectic and
Speaker 9: have pattern recognition and notice these different archetypal forces and stuff.
Speaker 9: You know, some people are probably closer to it than
Speaker 9: others where they're like, oh yeah, that's so mercurial or
Speaker 9: that's so jubitterarian. But like I noticed Anhalima a lot, right,
Speaker 9: the idea is to like break up those patterns, so
Speaker 9: like you might do these rituals where it's like almost
Speaker 9: purposefully confusing your connection to these patterns, and it like
Speaker 9: causes this like disruption in your subconscious that can do
Speaker 9: all sorts of things, like it can be psych fragmenting, honestly.
Speaker 9: But his idea was like you either awaken from that
Speaker 9: and rebuild it, I guess on your own, or you
Speaker 9: go insane. But I guess he did have like this
Speaker 9: argument also that insanity is necessary to cross the abyss.
Speaker 3: So it is I think right at it? H right,
Speaker 3: So do you even think like this is insane?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean what you're saying now eros like in
Speaker 10: the latter part of your comment, I totally agree with.
Speaker 10: I don't think that the order is inherently good. I
Speaker 10: don't think chaos is inherently evil. I take a very
Speaker 10: nondual view, so I know this is very different. I
Speaker 10: know this is much more Buddhist, more contric I get
Speaker 10: that I'm not saying my view is the right way.
Speaker 10: I'm just saying for my system, this is the right way.
Speaker 10: So for me, I take it as a middle path,
Speaker 10: like not extreme right hand, not extreme left hand, but
Speaker 10: I might draw from those ideas like you were saying,
Speaker 10: chaos magic really emphasizes the idea of breaking conceptual thinking.
Speaker 10: Buddhism really emphasizes this idea of breaking conceptual thinking. Kabala
Speaker 10: at the more nondual layer really emphasizes the idea of
Speaker 10: breaking kleipas, something Matt loves to say, because we have
Speaker 10: to break kleipas because we they veil our true understanding,
Speaker 10: our true awareness of what something really is, maybe even
Speaker 10: call it its true name. So it's not that we
Speaker 10: are out to be transgressive or we're and we're not
Speaker 10: out to and inherently like prop up the status quo either.
Speaker 10: It's a little bit of both. It has a little
Speaker 10: bit of a rebellious spirit. But I think that Mott,
Speaker 10: I don't know, Judah can literally disagree with me and
Speaker 10: say like, oh yeah, Jin saying something naughty. That's okay,
Speaker 10: I'll take it. But I think it's a little bit
Speaker 10: of a rebel spirit. That is how I understand they are,
Speaker 10: but I am totally open to like pushback or people's
Speaker 10: other ideas.
Speaker 1: I'm not fixed.
Speaker 10: And this is the other thing is I try not
Speaker 10: to be fixed in my particular way that I frame everything.
Speaker 10: I try and have different frameworks when I talk to
Speaker 10: different people, So like I'll have a gnostic framework, I'll
Speaker 10: have a Buddhist framework, or I'll have a whatever, I'll
Speaker 10: just or the Egyptian one. I think that's all okay,
Speaker 10: because I think that there are different ways that people
Speaker 10: understand the conceptual ideas for themselves. They don't have to
Speaker 10: think that I'm the you know, arbiter of it. They
Speaker 10: can just take it in their own way and you know,
Speaker 10: use first principles like Helas was talking about.
Speaker 1: That's what cabal is.
Speaker 10: It's about mapping reality onto the tree and then and
Speaker 10: unpacking it, unfolding it and folding it in like a flower.
Speaker 1: I don't know, just an idea. You give me a
Speaker 1: really terrible idea.
Speaker 8: So what do you guys think about doing a golden
Speaker 8: ass kabbala, just like a full commentary breaking down the
Speaker 8: golden ass in the kabbala.
Speaker 1: I think that would be amazing.
Speaker 15: All right, we get I wanted to address.
Speaker 3: He'll be okay, sometimes it ship jobs out.
Speaker 2: Sucks.
Speaker 14: I had a quick thing I wanted to add onto
Speaker 14: the idea of or insanity to that Buddhists put forth
Speaker 14: the idea that life is a tube.
Speaker 7: And you're either going up or going down and staying
Speaker 7: still doesn't make much sense.
Speaker 14: At all, right, But I just wanted to say that, Judith,
Speaker 14: what were you gonna say?
Speaker 16: No, Actually, you hit on what I wanted to tell Jim,
Speaker 16: because I do agree with Jim's aspect, because if you're
Speaker 16: looking at the kabbala, you're not meant to stay in
Speaker 16: one place.
Speaker 5: You're meant to have that movement.
Speaker 6: The whole point in my view, in my opinion, is
Speaker 6: to not get stagnant and get stuck in one place.
Speaker 5: So I agree one hundred percent with what Jim was saying.
Speaker 5: And you actually supported that even, Thank you so much.
Speaker 12: Sorry, no, sorry, yeah, just again, Look in nature, right,
Speaker 12: Nature never stays the same. Everything changes all the time,
Speaker 12: and things live and die and change and transform and
Speaker 12: so on.
Speaker 11: So like breaking the klifas right, that can be the.
Speaker 12: Butterfly or the caterpillar that breaks itself to become the butterfly. Right,
Speaker 12: So everything is again constantly changing and removing, and if
Speaker 12: it doesn't break that cliff, it stays as a caterpillar forever.
Speaker 11: So it's just about reinventing and changing.
Speaker 12: And again seasons change, people change, but they can't stay
Speaker 12: the same at the same time.
Speaker 11: So it's it's this constant just.
Speaker 12: The the Hebrews well call the thing soon right, the movement, contraction,
Speaker 12: expansion and is one. So even the chaos and the
Speaker 12: order like you need first, so there's nothing. You need
Speaker 12: the chaos to kind of move things around and you
Speaker 12: order them to make sense of it. Otherwise you just
Speaker 12: have too much chaos and then you cannot understand anything.
Speaker 12: But then you bring chaos again to have nothing then
Speaker 12: and so on.
Speaker 11: It's like back and forth half.
Speaker 12: Of the Pliny sword in the in the serpent right,
Speaker 12: going up and down.
Speaker 11: It's one.
Speaker 9: Brilliant Nature does have these natural laws, though, and if
Speaker 9: we didn't have those laws, and I think to the
Speaker 9: I was gonna say, I guess I think to the
Speaker 9: Egyptians who all they had this feeling like chaos was
Speaker 9: something that you always had to fight back against, you know,
Speaker 9: and you could even think of like uh, like Zeus
Speaker 9: killing the chaos serpent you know. Huh yes, uh, Like
Speaker 9: some people believe that Typhon was Guya's, you know, child
Speaker 9: that was supposed to try to defeat the Olympians. Guya's
Speaker 9: like last chance at kind of fighting them for imprisoning
Speaker 9: her children. So it's just like this primal part of
Speaker 9: nature that's always going to be there, just like man,
Speaker 9: you know, is the master of nature and has to
Speaker 9: fight the beasts back and has to fight the weeds back.
Speaker 9: You know, it's kind of like that concept, like chaos
Speaker 9: is always going to be there.
Speaker 2: I would just.
Speaker 10: Follow up Ros by asking you, like a fundamental Cabala question,
Speaker 10: like how do you personally reconcile the paradox of the
Speaker 10: relationship between Gevra and Hesseid if you're at or even
Speaker 10: just you could say the right and the left pillar,
Speaker 10: because those also work in Zimsum as Matt said, like
Speaker 10: those are the two suffer that fundamentally have the strongest
Speaker 10: dialectical relationship with each other, fire and water, So they
Speaker 10: have to be reconciled, and they have to be reconciled
Speaker 10: in the middle pillar. How do you do that? I'm
Speaker 10: not I'm not putting you on the spot or anything.
Speaker 10: I'm just this is just a Cabala paradox. We often
Speaker 10: discuss it, and it's just it's a really fundamental way
Speaker 10: to sort of understand how the tree works. It's like
Speaker 10: Matt said, it's simsum. It's the zipping and unzipping. It's
Speaker 10: the breaking of the klipas of your own conceptual understanding
Speaker 10: of things. Because the person that I I'll just speak
Speaker 10: for myself, the person that I was at two years old,
Speaker 10: is not the person I am at thirty seven. So
Speaker 10: my own, my own life, my own marga has unfolded
Speaker 10: in a way that I have gained at least I
Speaker 10: think I've gained in perceptual understanding of the universe or
Speaker 10: knowledge even maybe a little bit, just maybe a little bit,
Speaker 10: but a little bit. So I have to recognize that
Speaker 10: not the way I when you Okay, so when you
Speaker 10: walk through the gateway of Malcouth first time onto your slade,
Speaker 10: you are childlike and you don't know that even the
Speaker 10: names of things, you are like fully lost in the
Speaker 10: Abyss experience, as as Nick mentioned, you don't know you're
Speaker 10: for the first time. It's like the example is like
Speaker 10: you are a virgin or a bride, So you don't.
Speaker 10: So you just call things by what you think that
Speaker 10: they are, or relate to them as you believe that
Speaker 10: they are. But as you sort of cross the I
Speaker 10: would call it the carnal ground or the abyss. As
Speaker 10: you cross those experiences, you actually gain in knowledge and
Speaker 10: you realize like, oh, I actually was wrong about the
Speaker 10: way I've perceived these things at first, so you change.
Speaker 10: So that is what I'm talking about. It's not really
Speaker 10: this dialectical arrangement between order and chaos. It's really about
Speaker 10: matter and spirit.
Speaker 1: That's more.
Speaker 10: That's more Hebrew Cabala. So I'm just I'm not saying
Speaker 10: it's different. I'm just saying that that's my perspective on that.
Speaker 10: The tree is best understood in dialectical relationship. But all
Speaker 10: the stuff for a work in dialectical relationship, hes said,
Speaker 10: has a dialectical relationship with Bina. Mercy has a dialectical
Speaker 10: relationship with understanding. You cannot understand text. That's essentially what
Speaker 10: bina is. It's the it's the black ink on the
Speaker 10: white page and the white vellum. You can call it
Speaker 10: the Torah, which obviously is the law. But you can
Speaker 10: just extend that to mean, any text, any canonical text.
Speaker 10: You have to bring that into loving kindness. That is
Speaker 10: the only way to understand that. You can't take it
Speaker 10: as literal. You're supposed to take it as part of
Speaker 10: the realm of ideas, interpretive, and then you kind of
Speaker 10: relate it to the things that we know, which is hode,
Speaker 10: which are the words that we have, the analogical sort
Speaker 10: of devices thinking that we used to describe the universe.
Speaker 10: That's all imperfect. This is just a Cabali stick thing.
Speaker 10: I'm not saying that you're understanding is imperfect. I'm saying
Speaker 10: that from a more Hebrew or David Hamm Smith, who
Speaker 10: I'm a big fan of.
Speaker 11: Obviously.
Speaker 10: Uh, that's how That's how I would That's how I
Speaker 10: would say.
Speaker 2: You do you get in touch with that guy?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: I am actually yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: He I felt so bad, like I hit me up
Speaker 2: on like every fucking platform possible. I just hadn't checked
Speaker 2: my DMS for like a few days. But no, I
Speaker 2: didn't check like my uh my inbox, I like because
Speaker 2: I wasn't following him, so it didn't show up in
Speaker 2: my regular inboox. Yeah, like I was looking for you
Speaker 2: for a minute, and he went to iike it, that's
Speaker 2: how he got your contact.
Speaker 3: Yes, think of some shit. Yeah it felt bad. I
Speaker 3: dropped the ball onto there, But I mean you got
Speaker 3: touch with them anyway.
Speaker 1: No, you didn't.
Speaker 3: Nick.
Speaker 10: It was because of me coming on the show that
Speaker 10: he even noticed who the fuck I was and was like, oh,
Speaker 10: actually Jinn's talking about cabal in a very similar way.
Speaker 1: But that's and I didn't even have read his.
Speaker 10: Books until probably two or three years ago. And it
Speaker 10: was because I'm Buddhist, because he started out as Buddhist,
Speaker 10: and then I approached Hebrew Kabala after. So that's really
Speaker 10: like where we that's our similarity is that we kind
Speaker 10: of were nondual and then we kind of were like, Okay,
Speaker 10: let's look at Hebrew Kabala in a nondual way.
Speaker 3: Remember I told you I thought he was I thought
Speaker 3: he was fake.
Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, this isn't really this isn't a
Speaker 2: real account.
Speaker 8: What the hell of a thing to a person, It's
Speaker 8: just like some random author.
Speaker 2: Yeah, protect No, you know what the thing was is
Speaker 2: that the account he messaged me from like had like
Speaker 2: nothing on it, and I'm like, who the fuck is
Speaker 2: this guy? And so like I typed his name in
Speaker 2: and he popped up on like other social media apps,
Speaker 2: and I click on it and it brings me to
Speaker 2: an actual, real account, and I'm like, wait, so it's like,
Speaker 2: does someone scamming fucking Jen or some shit like trall
Speaker 2: of him or something.
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure because it was weird.
Speaker 2: It almost looks like that guy made that Instagram account
Speaker 2: just to message me.
Speaker 1: It was really weird exactly, so.
Speaker 2: I wasn't taking it. That wasn't too of how true
Speaker 2: it was. But I mean, then he already said forget
Speaker 2: about it, already spoke to Ike. I'm like, well, if
Speaker 2: he spoke to Ike, obviously he's played real. Unless he's
Speaker 2: making that up.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 10: No, he's a you know, he's a very to me,
Speaker 10: he's the best cabalist of like the twenty first century
Speaker 10: in my opinion. It's just my opinion, but that's how
Speaker 10: I feel. I think his book. I think everybody who's listening,
Speaker 10: if you want a really great book and you don't
Speaker 10: want to buy Georgiana Ro's book, go read Blazing Dew
Speaker 10: of Stars. I think you'll learn so much about it.
Speaker 10: He talks about free agency, free will. He talks about
Speaker 10: how you can relate the Safari era to the Outer three,
Speaker 10: which I did obviously with Nick three years ago, and
Speaker 10: also we did in the Kabala series that we did.
Speaker 10: So he's talking about all the all the questions, all
Speaker 10: the important questions in modern magic, as well as a
Speaker 10: more traditional appraisal of Kabala from the middle Path. And
Speaker 10: I think that that's what my attraction to his style is,
Speaker 10: is that again to bring up exactly like it was
Speaker 10: such a perfect way for Judit to open the show,
Speaker 10: like the middle pillars essentially what life is, and we
Speaker 10: walk the past through the suphra we try and get
Speaker 10: to the Godhead, which props to Georgina Rose like that's
Speaker 10: what she said. She was saying, it's a septanatus like
Speaker 10: a seven star game. You kind of walk up from
Speaker 10: Malcouth or Sode, depending on how you count, and you
Speaker 10: sort of want to go all the way up to
Speaker 10: Ketter that Catter is also Malcouth. So the fundamental paradox
Speaker 10: is how do you reconcile that.
Speaker 11: You know something.
Speaker 12: Something I like doing when we were talking about words
Speaker 12: is going to the semantics of it, and I think
Speaker 12: it helps a lot with understanding more points of view.
Speaker 12: So for example, we go with chaos and we go
Speaker 12: to the Greek etymology, they go to a more like
Speaker 12: void for the something like open being open or something
Speaker 12: like that. And then you connect this to for example,
Speaker 12: like Aeros was saying, yes, we do have order for eximplace.
Speaker 12: If I jump, I'm in an apartment. If I jump,
Speaker 12: I als hold down, there's there's some kind of order here.
Speaker 12: But if we go to the like if we zoom
Speaker 12: into stuff, we get into a realm that there is
Speaker 12: no exact order as it has here, but it has
Speaker 12: a different order, like if you go to quantum stuff
Speaker 12: and so one there's like a it's like a different
Speaker 12: thing going on. We cannot assume the same uh programming,
Speaker 12: let's say the same software running. So it's interesting that
Speaker 12: it's almost as if before we read the from the route,
Speaker 12: it's being an abyss even or avoid like the chaos
Speaker 12: being avoided. Abyss is again the thing that leaves space
Speaker 12: for the order to come. So then I think, well
Speaker 12: both are necessary in this case, So we need to
Speaker 12: control both, and like I was saying, we need both
Speaker 12: like the hawkmdity, now we need both making the connection
Speaker 12: or even the both pillars because otherwise you have too
Speaker 12: much of one, you cannot have anything. If you have
Speaker 12: too much order, then you don't move. It's like you
Speaker 12: guys were talking about Germany right Like, it's like Europe
Speaker 12: right now. They cannot move. They're stuck because they are
Speaker 12: too ordered, they're too rigid.
Speaker 11: It cannot go away. But if you have too much chaos,
Speaker 11: on the.
Speaker 12: Other hand, maybe like us would be a good example,
Speaker 12: that could be a problem as well. Like you have
Speaker 12: too much chaos, it cannot come show it, you end
Speaker 12: up doing again, you don't know where it goes. So
Speaker 12: always always a bass the middle player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always love.
Speaker 8: To contribute to the chaos.
Speaker 9: I think too. It's that is a good point, because
Speaker 9: it's like defining chaos isn't the easiest thing to do.
Speaker 9: I almost feel like there could be two types of chaos, right,
Speaker 9: Like the primordial chaos is just like yeah, potentiality, but
Speaker 9: you know, I think that's more Uranian, whereas there's the
Speaker 9: Typhonian chaos, which is catonic and it's uh, it fragments
Speaker 9: and it dissolves, basically, it destroys.
Speaker 10: What if I told you eras that both of those
Speaker 10: things are the same, that you can reconcile both of
Speaker 10: those ideas and say, like what Kenneth Grant said, that
Speaker 10: we are in the tunnels we set, we are in
Speaker 10: the roots of the tree.
Speaker 1: But what is the tunnel.
Speaker 10: The tunnel is just the outer sort of formation of reality,
Speaker 10: and really we have all this space, as Matt said,
Speaker 10: we have all this potentiality in space. That's how Buddhism
Speaker 10: would describe even the female principle, or like the new eat,
Speaker 10: she's she's she's free in space. We don't call her
Speaker 10: new heat obviously, we call it like we call them
Speaker 10: sky witches or sky dancers or dikini's. But you know,
Speaker 10: it's it's similar, it's a similar idea or the Babylon
Speaker 10: or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's the it's that's what it is.
Speaker 10: It's like she exists there in nondual wisdom, but it's
Speaker 10: she's free in space. And so we have to sort
Speaker 10: of navigate our movement through space, just like we navigate
Speaker 10: our movement through the tree to that space that doesn't
Speaker 10: really exist, which is Malchuth to Ketter, that that doesn't
Speaker 10: really exist, but we perceive it perceptually as like being
Speaker 10: disconnected as a disconnection between like some people say it's
Speaker 10: like heart and mind. Some people say it's like spirit
Speaker 10: and body. Some people will say it's like aha and
Speaker 10: like our material body, like all these different ways or
Speaker 10: the Godhead or the outer outside of form, because a
Speaker 10: lot of Buddhism is like very obsessed with like the
Speaker 10: fourth density, like the getting like you're not coming back
Speaker 10: into cause like you So there's a lot of people
Speaker 10: who don't want to come back. So that's part of
Speaker 10: like escape from Samsar, escape from the Black cube. So yeah,
Speaker 10: you're right, there's all these different ideas of how to
Speaker 10: describe it. But I do think that the sort of female,
Speaker 10: the shocked principle of that New Week figure, I think
Speaker 10: she can be reconciled in both. She's both shatonic and
Speaker 10: like void like or spatial.
Speaker 9: That's the one as more progressive and aligned to universal law.
Speaker 9: You know, that's like a type of differentiation that could
Speaker 9: be seen as chaotic, but really it is it aligns
Speaker 9: to the laws, and it's it's progressive, whereas like it
Speaker 9: creates new things based on those universal laws, whereas the
Speaker 9: other is like it just destroys and entropies.
Speaker 10: I mean, I believe in karma very strongly, Like I
Speaker 10: think we're governed by like a cosmic principle of karma.
Speaker 10: I'm not talking about like Vedic or Vedontic karma. I'm
Speaker 10: talking about obviously Buddhist karma, which is predicated on ideas
Speaker 10: of like rebirth and free will both. But yeah, it's
Speaker 10: like the exactly what sor Ethan. It's exactly what Ethan said.
Speaker 10: It's like, that's how Buddhism posits us. We are like
Speaker 10: fish traveling up the ocean of stars. We are like
Speaker 10: swimming in the cosmic body of new eat, swimming upstream
Speaker 10: you could say, in this like endless cycle, like a spiral,
Speaker 10: and so like we kind of yeah, like it's both.
Speaker 10: It's both the formation of primordial destruction and then also
Speaker 10: the one that's more ordered by the universe. But that's
Speaker 10: again I would say, it's all fundamentally in your own
Speaker 10: mind as well, Like it's these are outer principles, like
Speaker 10: observational principles. But like Matt said, like nature doesn't stay
Speaker 10: the same. It is decay and generation at the same time.
Speaker 10: And so for me, like the an of the Daughter
Speaker 10: or an of Mott, I'm very comfortable using either frame
Speaker 10: because it's I think for me it means.
Speaker 1: The same thing.
Speaker 10: So I think it's an aon of generation, but we
Speaker 10: also live on the carnoground. Like if you want to
Speaker 10: be truly nondual, you recognize that the world is like, yeah,
Speaker 10: it's a garden. It's beautiful at times, and then it's
Speaker 10: also a carnoground at the same time because everything that
Speaker 10: is alive has to die. That's just part of the
Speaker 10: cosmic formulation. So it's like a rose. It's like a
Speaker 10: rose is such a perfect example, right, because roses do
Speaker 10: really well with what blood meal and bone meal and
Speaker 10: someone's fish meal too, so they that is like the
Speaker 10: kind of like thing like you just don't want to
Speaker 10: be I just don't like to stay fixed. This is
Speaker 10: just for me, but I don't like to stay fixed.
Speaker 1: On like one. I'm not like like I'm.
Speaker 10: Pro generation because generation also implies decay in eventuality.
Speaker 1: It's like a there's like a thing.
Speaker 10: But it's not like I'm inherently trying to degenerate like
Speaker 10: anything or myself. I'm actually trying to like just be progressive.
Speaker 10: And I actually even think that's what the anima is.
Speaker 10: And if you look at like the Buddhist goddess that
Speaker 10: I tied it to. She holds the bow and arrow,
Speaker 10: but she wields a flower, so it's a blue flower.
Speaker 10: So she's a red or pink goddess and she has
Speaker 10: a blue flower at the end of her bow. You
Speaker 10: could tie that. There's an interesting way to tie that
Speaker 10: to Hessed. So you could say that her body is
Speaker 10: like coming through the hate heatless flame of Geverra, but
Speaker 10: her like her weapon quote unquote, is tied to loving kindness.
Speaker 10: So it's like tied to the progressive idea, not saying political,
Speaker 10: but progressive idea of like how do we relate to
Speaker 10: each other?
Speaker 1: How do we treat each other? How do we understand
Speaker 1: our relationality in the cosmos? I don't know.
Speaker 10: These are just like these are just greater like ideas
Speaker 10: that we've been all working through. And as I said, like,
Speaker 10: I don't think I have the answers. I'm just this
Speaker 10: is just totally speculative, Kabala. I'm just positive ideas having
Speaker 10: a discourse. It's I'm not you know, do asou well
Speaker 10: believe as that? Well?
Speaker 12: Aris, have you heard of chaos theory before the mathematical thing? Yes,
Speaker 12: So I think that's the really like it connects to
Speaker 12: what you're saying saying in the way that they they
Speaker 12: see something that appears random, but there is like some
Speaker 12: underlying order, right, there's some underlying thing creating, and we
Speaker 12: can understand that maybe as the cather right, Like there's
Speaker 12: the cather, the middle pillar that creates the hawkmap that
Speaker 12: creates the uranium energy that you were talking about, which
Speaker 12: then again gets ordered in Bena, right, But there's no
Speaker 12: like when when it's the pure pure chaos. Let's say,
Speaker 12: when it's the uncontrolled one. If you want to connect
Speaker 12: to the tarrat for example, that could be the devil,
Speaker 12: the typhoon that you mentioned. It's like the set the dragon,
Speaker 12: the one again creating here is pen, the god Pen,
Speaker 12: so it's the one that's going to destroy.
Speaker 11: It's like the serpent point up.
Speaker 12: It has its own like it has a need, but
Speaker 12: it has to be controlled, right, Like you cannot just
Speaker 12: destroy it everything. For example, someone will say I want
Speaker 12: to have like a Kumbelina experience. Whatever, Okay, you can
Speaker 12: have it, but then afterwards what they're going to do,
Speaker 12: Like let's.
Speaker 3: Say I uh like the berries.
Speaker 12: Yeah, It's like let's say if I'm talking with a
Speaker 12: Christian friend and then I destroy the normy idea of
Speaker 12: Christianity that he has, Like I'm fucking this guy, like
Speaker 12: his life is over, let's say, because his life is
Speaker 12: built on top of that those that order that he
Speaker 12: was created in, like a Christian let's say a country
Speaker 12: by Christian France or whatever. And then I come to
Speaker 12: him and say, no, but this and that and that
Speaker 12: and that.
Speaker 11: Is bullshit, like it's actually some other thing.
Speaker 12: If I don't teach him how to rebuild again, if
Speaker 12: I just destroy, I completely agree with you, then he's
Speaker 12: fucked like that.
Speaker 11: That's not cool at all. It's it's gonna f him.
Speaker 12: But I maybe, like we're talking about the Ranian one,
Speaker 12: I guess it would be more connected to like the star,
Speaker 12: which in this sick is like Panora Soupreneur's box, right,
Speaker 12: the chaos that Actually it's almost as if the Zoos
Speaker 12: is like, okay, guys, now you get the power that
Speaker 12: Prometheus gave you, but you get to bad things as well.
Speaker 12: It's like not only good things come on now you
Speaker 12: can create stuff, but you can create some bad stuff
Speaker 12: as well.
Speaker 11: Then Pandora is doing the shady where.
Speaker 12: But it's it's cool because the star comes after the tower,
Speaker 12: which is again you just destroyed the same castle. You
Speaker 12: destroyed everything that doesn't matter and you don't need it anymore,
Speaker 12: and so on, and then now you plant new stuff.
Speaker 12: It's like again the staff hope. And so it's again
Speaker 12: the chaos being the starting.
Speaker 11: Point from which you organize. It's it's uh.
Speaker 12: If you take any example, right, if you want to cook,
Speaker 12: it's gonna be a chaotic thing. Everything is gonna be around,
Speaker 12: it's alsthing. You've got to organize it into food. If
Speaker 12: you want to be a good whatever electrician, you gotta
Speaker 12: organize everything for the electric thing to be.
Speaker 11: Built or the house.
Speaker 12: And again you have to grab that chaotic thing, all
Speaker 12: those materials and optimize them into something nice.
Speaker 11: So so as a maybe from where you start, it's
Speaker 11: gonna be more chaotic. Yeah, especially if you don't know. Right. Again,
Speaker 11: the homa you kind of.
Speaker 12: You understand, you'll not understand you you are aware it exists,
Speaker 12: but you don't understand it.
Speaker 11: So again it's chaotic. Gotta make sense of it. Got
Speaker 11: to bring it to me, not either Ethan.
Speaker 8: Do you remember watching the uh, the video about the
Speaker 8: the plane of inertia on trialogues.
Speaker 7: The plane of inertia.
Speaker 8: No, remind me the cad wheeler UH clip where he's
Speaker 8: talking about the plane of inertia. How everything sort of
Speaker 8: exists inside of this thing. It's got the figure right.
Speaker 1: In the middle.
Speaker 8: Run away inside of it. How much of what they're
Speaker 8: talking about sort of fits into that model?
Speaker 7: Well, I I was that's a that's a great example.
Speaker 14: And I was thinking about with the uh the idea
Speaker 14: of the two pillars.
Speaker 7: You know, I'm maybe it's I'm just so innocent.
Speaker 14: Maybe I don't know, But whenever there's this idea of
Speaker 14: midd path or right path or left pillar whatever I mean,
Speaker 14: I am astonished when anyone says right or left handed,
Speaker 14: because the pursuit of balance is so ingrained into me
Speaker 14: by way of the middle Path and Buddhism and the
Speaker 14: whole balance and tai chi and not of course too this.
Speaker 14: So I think of the pillars as being potential actions
Speaker 14: or potential being right. We have the potential for severity
Speaker 14: or the potential for mercy. My tai chi teacher put
Speaker 14: it really well, there's the potential for flexibility, and there's
Speaker 14: a potential for rigidity. In flexibility, there is still the
Speaker 14: potential for rigidity. In rigidity, there's not the potential for flexibility.
Speaker 14: So sometimes it might be actually performance useful to be
Speaker 14: in one or the other left handed or right handed
Speaker 14: pillars for the circumstances and situations. But often I feel
Speaker 14: like the middle path is is where we want to be.
Speaker 14: And you know that depiction Headless had the straight line
Speaker 14: within it is as the center line intersecting with the
Speaker 14: center point, and that's really where our physical and psychic
Speaker 14: power is most potentiated, is when we're balanced right. So
Speaker 14: I always think about just pursuing the middle path, and
Speaker 14: then I am I have the ability to be to
Speaker 14: understand that both polls.
Speaker 8: Well, spin creates polls and balance spin right, And so
Speaker 8: the idea of spin, when it comes to you know,
Speaker 8: the fundamental nature of the universe as well as these
Speaker 8: higher topics, never usually brought up. But you know, spin
Speaker 8: creates that dip larity of you know, on one side,
Speaker 8: it's moving in one direction and on the other it's
Speaker 8: it's moving in a completely different direction based off of
Speaker 8: your perception of the thing. So spin at the very
Speaker 8: core starts to create weird geometries. And that's like one
Speaker 8: of the fundamental principles, which is the taurus right, like
Speaker 8: this trust energy field. Whenever you're talking about spin within
Speaker 8: the toroid, you've got the figure eight of this constant
Speaker 8: motion being pulled through the middle right, the middle pillar
Speaker 8: being the result of spin.
Speaker 2: That's interesting when we're talking about the middle pillar ritual,
Speaker 2: you are picturing a spiral coming down yourself as well,
Speaker 2: and stuff going out and looking around you making an X,
Speaker 2: and then down the middle.
Speaker 3: Pillar of you is the spiral.
Speaker 2: I think that that's why, like even that spiral sometimes
Speaker 2: that you see like drawn on walls and shit, sometimes
Speaker 2: I do think it's representing that it's not always like.
Speaker 14: Some antichi, we conceptualize centric fugel and centrifugal forces emitting and.
Speaker 7: Coming to our our center, same same kind of idea.
Speaker 10: I love that you said that, Ethan. I thought that
Speaker 10: was really good and that was a great point Nick
Speaker 10: about the I think it's a universal thing, Like I
Speaker 10: don't think it's specific to me or specific to anyone,
Speaker 10: like Ethan is saying, like I think that, like you
Speaker 10: could look at Daoism as a very like more on
Speaker 10: the side of chaos, because they often like give they
Speaker 10: sort of give homage. I would say it's a primarial
Speaker 10: chaos often in Dronza, so I think.
Speaker 14: It's they allow chaos to unfold and work with it
Speaker 14: in the Wu Way idea.
Speaker 10: Right, So not to interrupt, No, no, no, that's a
Speaker 10: great because like Daoism is Wu Way and zerin, so
Speaker 10: it's spontaneity and like allowing exactly what Ethan said, I'm
Speaker 10: just using the matter and words whatever.
Speaker 1: It's exactly that.
Speaker 10: It's just like letting it unfold like a flower, Like
Speaker 10: that is the universal you can say that is the
Speaker 10: universal metaphor for the universe. Right is the flower, like
Speaker 10: whether it's a lotus and okay, spinning swaska absolutely, you know,
Speaker 10: like this is a very tonic thing, like you see
Speaker 10: a lot of the primordial chaoscott as she wields a
Speaker 10: swastka sometimes. But you know it's it's like the spinning
Speaker 10: motion of the universe. And like which way does it spin? Well,
Speaker 10: we would say it spins non dually. We would say
Speaker 10: it doesn't spin left or right. We would say it
Speaker 10: spins in our perception, so we get to choose. That's
Speaker 10: how I think of it. I'm not saying that's right
Speaker 10: or wrong, and just when we also say stars over planets,
Speaker 10: but we don't worship stars either, So I just want
Speaker 10: to point that out. Is like we're not so fixed
Speaker 10: in the seven luminaries because we also have a nine
Speaker 10: luminary system, especially in Tntra and in Joe Tish in general.
Speaker 10: So we use the nine planets, and they are nine planets.
Speaker 10: Like people misunderstand this, but Rahu and Katchu our planets.
Speaker 1: They may not exist physically exist, but they they are
Speaker 1: there and they have to be understood to be there.
Speaker 1: And of course, like even when David Ranking came on
Speaker 1: him and I spoke a little bit about this, I
Speaker 1: asked him like straight up, I was like, David, how
Speaker 1: do you reconcile the outer three with Rahu Ketu? He
Speaker 1: was like how do you?
Speaker 10: And I said, Okay, Well, Katu for Neptune, Uranus for Rahu,
Speaker 10: and Pluto is like a way out, just like death
Speaker 10: is a way out for everybody pretty much. They all
Speaker 10: think that. So if you if you matt Pluto to death,
Speaker 10: not everybody does, right, Like I think Urine, and I've
Speaker 10: said this like Uranus and Pluto can switch, So I
Speaker 10: think like they can switch the sort of if you
Speaker 10: want to call the planets the klipas. They can switch,
Speaker 10: but I think that they're because I think it's not
Speaker 10: fixed either. I think the tree, like Matt talks a
Speaker 10: lot about this, the tree is ever evolving, it's ever unfolding,
Speaker 10: ever expanding. So it's just like it's it's not about like, oh,
Speaker 10: I'm going to preface this thing. Because ideas can be wrong,
Speaker 10: institutions can be wrong, So do you not challenge them?
Speaker 10: I'm not asking you, I'm just saying in general, like
Speaker 10: Nick was talking about, like changing t lima, you can't
Speaker 10: change talma if you're on the side of total order
Speaker 10: because then you're like Judge dread and you're just supporting
Speaker 10: the You're just supporting the sort of pillars of how
Speaker 10: you think reality is. But if you're challenging something, you're
Speaker 10: pushing kind of against what you think it can be,
Speaker 10: or you're trying to transform it into what you think
Speaker 10: it can be.
Speaker 9: I you brought up earlier the three body problem too,
Speaker 9: and I just wanted to throw that out there too,
Speaker 9: because I know I talked about this a little bit
Speaker 9: in the Hercules video. But you know, when you have
Speaker 9: a two body system like the Sun and the Earth,
Speaker 9: like the math checks out like it's very harmonious. It
Speaker 9: is a simple system, but throwing the moon in there
Speaker 9: that created the first three body problem. And with Rahu
Speaker 9: and K two being the and the nodes of the moon, right,
Speaker 9: the moon is what really introduced that chaos into that system.
Speaker 9: And it's just kind of funny how it works like that,
Speaker 9: because you know, then you have Rahu K two which
Speaker 9: is the chaos serpent, right typhon, and also that being
Speaker 9: associated to the north and south node right where we
Speaker 9: have the eclipses, which Typhon is also associated with. You know,
Speaker 9: I won't get too deep into that, but because I guess,
Speaker 9: like I would make the argument again that I don't
Speaker 9: think that the north node and South node are necessarily
Speaker 9: like Uranus and Neptune, but they are so similar I
Speaker 9: really do understand, because one is like, uh, like that
Speaker 9: oh white hole and the other is like a black
Speaker 9: hole almost and right, Neptune dissolves and Uranus is like
Speaker 9: that pushing us forward principle. So I don't know, it's
Speaker 9: an interesting, uh, it's an interesting idea. It's an interesting
Speaker 9: thing to think about, for sure.
Speaker 1: I think you're right.
Speaker 10: The sheriffs sorry, headless just let me say this one
Speaker 10: thing and then I'll shut up for a long time.
Speaker 10: Aeros here, You're right, Actually it's not exactly the same,
Speaker 10: because you have to think of it like what Matt
Speaker 10: said the Path of the Dragon. You have to think
Speaker 10: that he is a gential being who climbs up together
Speaker 10: on his own. Then he fully manifests Uranus, then he
Speaker 10: fully manifests Neptune.
Speaker 1: He doesn't start off there.
Speaker 10: In fact, you could say that his favored position is
Speaker 10: to be at Gevra and at Shawnee or Saturn or Benna,
Speaker 10: because he loves matter and he also loves the destruction
Speaker 10: of matter. He's very dualistic, is how we would understand.
Speaker 10: This is a strictly contract, but that's how we would
Speaker 10: understand him. So the Uranian impulse, you could say, I
Speaker 10: know other magicians have called it that God is to
Speaker 10: take us outside of matter. Like Matt was saying, it's
Speaker 10: like that relationship between Ketter and Hopema, between like all
Speaker 10: that is or all the unity, and like the unmanifest wisdom,
Speaker 10: the cloudy smoky thing, because like Kaketu, his tail is
Speaker 10: always described as smoke, So very similar thing.
Speaker 1: I have a question. I've been too embarrassed to ask,
Speaker 1: so go for it.
Speaker 8: When they say it's sixty degrees north and sixty degrees south,
Speaker 8: I have no idea where that is on the ecliptic.
Speaker 8: I don't know what I'm picturing. So Rahu and Ketu
Speaker 8: is like these two different points. Is that on the
Speaker 8: chart itself or is that actually in the sky? Could
Speaker 8: you map that out to the stars themselves.
Speaker 9: I mean, let's just pull up a picture of the
Speaker 9: north and south note.
Speaker 11: I suppose, yeah, do you.
Speaker 1: Have one, I'll pull one up.
Speaker 2: Oh for people who are listening, and uh, probably after
Speaker 2: this we have to wrap it up. I did get
Speaker 2: a confirmation at least at nine o'clock guest is coming on,
Speaker 2: so we do have a fred RC at nine o'clock.
Speaker 3: I'm not expecting anybody.
Speaker 2: Here to be showing up for that. Maybe I've hedless one.
Speaker 2: I'm coming to that, okay, I got I also got
Speaker 2: also got jewels.
Speaker 3: Jewels coming on. Jewels is definitely going on for that.
Speaker 2: I put it at nine o'clock so he could because
Speaker 2: I know he's really big into the Nokia Magic and
Speaker 2: just just to just to throw it out there, this
Speaker 2: guy has his own podcast too, and I was kind
Speaker 2: of telling him my situation, and I guess I'm not
Speaker 2: the only one that that has happened to.
Speaker 3: He's not too happy about her reason.
Speaker 10: She's very high strong, you can tell. I can tell
Speaker 10: just watching her videos. It's like she's very tense. She
Speaker 10: come back down, come back down to malcouth, Georgina. You
Speaker 10: don't have to live at you know, you don't have
Speaker 10: to live in home all the time.
Speaker 9: How do I make this go on the screen?
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do it.
Speaker 9: Oh no, my email, No, don't look at that. Okay,
Speaker 9: it should be good. Okay, So that's they're not actual
Speaker 9: like parts of the guy. It's just where that the
Speaker 9: Moon's elliptical and the Earth's elliptical around the sun, like where.
Speaker 10: They meet, where they meet, got it, shadow planets, headless.
Speaker 10: That's how he's even thought of, like very subtle body.
Speaker 10: I mean, Rahu's a physical body, you could say, but
Speaker 10: it's like he's the on it and the catchoo is
Speaker 10: the opal or the cat's eye.
Speaker 9: Yes, and that's where we always have the eclipses.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: See, I find that really interesting how you then eclipse
Speaker 2: falls into this because they've even said from my experiences,
Speaker 2: I feel like like polarity changed when they separated from
Speaker 2: each other.
Speaker 8: Right, But it's bringing that three body problem into very
Speaker 8: very sharp contrast because you can see all of the
Speaker 8: different parts of the geometry that are now flung into
Speaker 8: gravity with each other.
Speaker 1: And how does that make any sense?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 9: And the elliptal the I don't even know if that's
Speaker 9: the is ellyptal.
Speaker 1: A word, elliptic, elliptic.
Speaker 9: The elliptics. So the Moon's is about five degrees off
Speaker 9: from the Sun. And what's really interesting is you know
Speaker 9: the north and the south node, it takes eighteen and
Speaker 9: a half years for them to return to their like
Speaker 9: in your birth chart for example, example, a lunar return
Speaker 9: takes eighteen and a half years for it to return
Speaker 9: to its original spot. But there's this this point where
Speaker 9: the moon goes out of bounds and it'll go five
Speaker 9: degrees below the tropic of Capricorn every eighteen and a
Speaker 9: half years. We're in a period like that now. Actually
Speaker 9: last January it was at its peak at the lowest
Speaker 9: that it goes. So it goes the moon goes out
Speaker 9: of bounds below where the Sun ever goes, so it's
Speaker 9: out of it's out of aspect of like raw or Helios, right,
Speaker 9: which fights back that chaos, and it goes below Capricorn
Speaker 9: into the cold, wintry dep's where the moon is debilitated.
Speaker 9: So that's kind of interesting. Actually, it's going below the
Speaker 9: elliptic or the tropic of Capricorn. January sixteenth, it'll be
Speaker 9: the lowest again. And this happens for about three years,
Speaker 9: where it'll go below that tropic of Capricorn every eighteen
Speaker 9: and a half years. So it's just kind of an
Speaker 9: interesting thing.
Speaker 14: I have an abstract question on something we've been we've
Speaker 14: been discussing. I can totally relate to the idea of
Speaker 14: an ARCon being of a planet, or an arcontic force
Speaker 14: of the planet, and and then but also there's this
Speaker 14: idea that there are arcontic forces. Maybe they are in
Speaker 14: fragmentation or maybe they're more separate entities. But there was
Speaker 14: this gnostic idea of arcons coming from Saturn to Earth
Speaker 14: because they did not like our music and singing. And
Speaker 14: it makes me gin specifically, I kind of have sometimes
Speaker 14: related this arconic force to the Buddhist idea of hungry ghosts.
Speaker 14: I wonder if you might maybe elaborate on the astrological
Speaker 14: arcontic and these maybe parasitic arcontic forces.
Speaker 1: Sure, thank you, Ethan, I appreciate that.
Speaker 10: So this is obviously partly a mad question too because
Speaker 10: he is the Bana Hope Ma guy. But it definitely
Speaker 10: you could say that Saturn or Shanni. Well, okay, so
Speaker 10: let's start out with this. In of Sanskrit, planets are
Speaker 10: called grajas. So right away from a Buddhist perspective, that's
Speaker 10: not a good sign. That grasper like a serpent keeping
Speaker 10: us here but not necessarily here, is in material creation
Speaker 10: in our consciousness. So we only can embody the pure
Speaker 10: concept quote unquote pure concept of the planet. But if
Speaker 10: even if you read the we'll just stick to my system,
Speaker 10: like we'll stick circularly to our Tarbadas or Joe Tisha.
Speaker 10: We'll say, if you read the stories, the planets are
Speaker 10: very jealous, kind of like flawed lower devas, lower gods.
Speaker 10: They are not the highest pinnacle of consciousness Buddhisms. Obviously
Speaker 10: you know this, but Buddhism is very concerned with consciousness
Speaker 10: and like having a quote unquote pristine consciousness.
Speaker 1: So if you are a pure.
Speaker 10: Concept of a four or that is inhabited by the
Speaker 10: five maras, so lust, greed, anger, jealousy, and there's one
Speaker 10: more I'm forgetting. But yeah, the planets embody these kind
Speaker 10: of clichs. Are these poisons the strongest and so and
Speaker 10: this is also the idea of the klipas too, right,
Speaker 10: the klipas are people get really obsessed with them because
Speaker 10: if they think it's left hand path and it's so
Speaker 10: edgy and so awesome, And in a way it is
Speaker 10: kind of awesome because you can conceptually understand things, conceptually
Speaker 10: relate things, but you're not supposed to take it as like, oh,
Speaker 10: I must worship these things. You're just supposed to take
Speaker 10: it as like, oh, okay, this is the way that
Speaker 10: sometimes traveling if you want to call it that, like
Speaker 10: traveling through the suffer of Bana. Sometimes our understanding can
Speaker 10: actually be misunderstanding our One of the klipas of Binna
Speaker 10: is actually the occultation of things, so the darkening of things,
Speaker 10: hiding things behind saying oh this is secret knowledge, like
Speaker 10: what we were talking about this right at the beginning,
Speaker 10: like leaving the institutional frameworks, so like everything that Nick
Speaker 10: has done for the whole time that he's been doing this,
Speaker 10: when he did like I'm not trying to big nick up,
Speaker 10: but I'm just saying for me, it was pivotal as well.
Speaker 1: But like when he was like Ny.
Speaker 10: Patriot and like you know, doing is saying that he's
Speaker 10: breaking the klip up of Dinna, like very literally, he's saying,
Speaker 10: like this is not secret, we're taking out of the institution.
Speaker 10: We're like very That's very aonic to me. So I
Speaker 10: don't know if that directly responds to your question, Ethan,
Speaker 10: but definitely there are aonic quality or ionic sorry or
Speaker 10: contic qualities in every planet. I'm not saying the planets
Speaker 10: are evil. I don't think that. I'm just saying that
Speaker 10: they position themselves as having lower desires, as we were
Speaker 10: talking about before, So I think that people should try.
Speaker 10: And because I'm not perfect either, I'm not saying that like,
Speaker 10: oh I'm like some proceners and.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not if I was.
Speaker 10: If I was out of proscene, i'd be like traveling
Speaker 10: the hyperspace Kingdom, like surfing on my surfboard, like out
Speaker 10: of here. But the reality is it's like I'm here,
Speaker 10: so I have to, you know, reconcile, like like you Ethan,
Speaker 10: Like I wasn't trying to joke because I know you surf,
Speaker 10: but I but that is how I like in it.
Speaker 1: It's very much like the silver surfer, the quicksilver surfer.
Speaker 10: He's out there in the in the in the universe
Speaker 10: on the eighth wave on his board, and that is
Speaker 10: like sort of how we should be. But we also
Speaker 10: are in the world of form, so we have to
Speaker 10: kind of reconcile these two things, these two polarities, and
Speaker 10: that's like the perfect thing, because you know, Buddhism says
Speaker 10: that there are ten polarities, eight polarities outside of you
Speaker 10: and two within you, one up, one down, so we
Speaker 10: get to choose. And these are also related to the
Speaker 10: inner channels, and as Nick would pose it, they're also
Speaker 10: related to yes, your optic nerve, Yes, your physical body.
Speaker 10: There is a physiological way to map the treaty and
Speaker 10: to map magic. I personally leave that very strongly.
Speaker 2: I mean, some of the nasty things, some of the
Speaker 2: nastic saints that that Crowley put in, is a you know,
Speaker 2: the gnustic mess. I mean, draw the eyeballs in the
Speaker 2: brain in their own work. So just right there, if
Speaker 2: you look at the people that he talks about, thank you, Jen,
Speaker 2: nor anybody else, did you have anything else you wanted
Speaker 2: to add before we wrap it up? Unfortunately, now since
Speaker 2: I know I have this other guest coming, I kind
Speaker 2: of want to wrap it up.
Speaker 7: So that was inured.
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys. I'm sorry that it turned into the
Speaker 1: Gin Show and spe but no.
Speaker 2: I thought that was great. Actually no, I mean you
Speaker 2: guys got to go back and forth. Everybody was respectful,
Speaker 2: and I thought that was like really interesting just to
Speaker 2: hear each other's takes.
Speaker 3: I mean I got something out of both of you.
Speaker 3: I thought that was great.
Speaker 10: Actually, yeah, Mondrick is the dialogue is the discourse? I
Speaker 10: think I don't agree on that.
Speaker 9: I was so happy for it. I just be able
Speaker 9: to talk to someone who can explain they're reasoning for
Speaker 9: things in such great detail.
Speaker 10: Thank you, Eric, So I really appreciate that. And likewise,
Speaker 10: I respect you greatly for all your knowledge.
Speaker 1: I really do.
Speaker 10: And I think it's a mark of a great kabalist
Speaker 10: to be able to As we've always talked about in
Speaker 10: the Greay Lodge, Matus heard me say this ten million times,
Speaker 10: but you have to be able to defend your positions
Speaker 10: if you're going to have a cabalistic position, like if
Speaker 10: I say the aon is on path twenty two. I
Speaker 10: better be able to tell you, even if you had
Speaker 10: never cracked a Cabala book in your life, I better
Speaker 10: be able to explain that to you in a way
Speaker 10: that is understandable, discernible, and testable through your own wisdom, science,
Speaker 10: or your own practice of it, rather than just like say, oh,
Speaker 10: believe me, No, I don't believe in that anymore. I'm
Speaker 10: very much like I like what you know. I think
Speaker 10: Nick and Judith also agree, like and Matt. Obviously, if
Speaker 10: you as a magician, you have to always say show me.
Speaker 3: I like that. I like that a lot. Very good,
Speaker 3: very good.
Speaker 2: Ja.
Speaker 3: I thought that was great. I really appreciate all you
Speaker 3: coming on.
Speaker 2: Sorry again about the guest, but I think this show
Speaker 2: was a It was awesome anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: So Judy, thank you so much for coming on. Please
Speaker 2: we definitely have to get you on again.
Speaker 5: It was my pleasure. I tell you, A spark was
Speaker 5: lit under me.
Speaker 2: And it's fun talking about that ship again, right it is?
Speaker 1: It is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you want to you wanta everybody know about
Speaker 2: you show and stuff?
Speaker 4: Again, it's it's basic self awareness on a more mundane plane.
Speaker 4: But it's still lone and I just help guy. Well,
Speaker 4: I give people tools to help themselves get in tune
Speaker 4: with their inner cells. And I also do buddy check
Speaker 4: once a month for the veterans to help them get act.
Speaker 4: We made it into civilian life too.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. That's good. That's great stuff.
Speaker 2: Juthing Yeah, and if yeah, I'll include your include the
Speaker 2: link for your show in the bottom Hellos Giant, please, my.
Speaker 1: Man, how you doing.
Speaker 8: You can find me at the Headless Giant podcast on
Speaker 8: YouTube and on uh now Rumble and also on x
Speaker 8: SO check me out over there. I've got shows coming
Speaker 8: up and shows that I've already done this week, so
Speaker 8: check them out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's awesome, dude. Yeah, he's a very very
Speaker 2: busy man. Go check out his channel and Ethan Indigo sir.
Speaker 14: Thanks everyone so much, Nick for putting this together. Hopefully
Speaker 14: we'll get to talk with Georgina in the future. Thanks
Speaker 14: to you guys for the insight and inspiration. So I'm easy
Speaker 14: to find and appreciate people reaching out and see us.
Speaker 1: Sunday Headless got it awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming on, Ethan. I appreciate
Speaker 2: you making the time I easy during the day for you.
Speaker 2: But that's what's up a rose, what is going on?
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 9: Yeah, thanks for having me Nick. As always, you can
Speaker 9: find me on YouTube at Arrows Up and you can
Speaker 9: find me on x SAT Arrows to eat those Yeah, no,
Speaker 9: Georgina and that was a bummer, but I still had
Speaker 9: a great.
Speaker 11: Time, Okay, So.
Speaker 3: Thank you for coming on, and Matt my man, I
Speaker 3: appreciate it, sir.
Speaker 11: Yes, fucking t wee ball. We can handle a panel
Speaker 11: good even if the guests doesn't come.
Speaker 12: But anyways, you can always find me as at Matt
Speaker 12: Moore nineteen. That's gonna be Twitter, YouTube, uh TikTok, Instagram,
Speaker 12: not rumbled, Twitch, maybe.
Speaker 11: Some other place I don't know.
Speaker 12: Also or Gray Launch, the truegray Launch dot com with
Speaker 12: the v so true, the true grad latch dot com
Speaker 12: and my webs that's Kabala dot com k A A
Speaker 12: B A l a h dot com. Like I said,
Speaker 12: there's the third thing going on. So for interesting just
Speaker 12: hit me up and I'll hook you up with the details. Thanks,
Speaker 12: thank thanks everyone for having me. Was a blest and
Speaker 12: uh yeah, even though again we kind of switched again,
Speaker 12: that's the chaos, right, We managed the chaos.
Speaker 3: That was great, Thank you.
Speaker 2: I like that, and that's been at least jin. Please
Speaker 2: let everybody know what's up. Oh maybe you can also
Speaker 2: plug the branch, susans.
Speaker 10: I will, so everybody check out the branch. He has
Speaker 10: his Wednesday spaces. He's done multiple multiple episodes on my
Speaker 10: show Threshold Saints, which you can find, of course at
Speaker 10: the link that Mattress Drop, the True Gray Lodge with
Speaker 10: a v plus Ultra Baby dot com, as well as
Speaker 10: Threshold Saints dot substock dot com, which is what is
Speaker 10: one of our many web portals are kind of graffiti
Speaker 10: on the eighth wave, you can call it that we're doing.
Speaker 1: So I've just recently built that.
Speaker 10: Of course, you can find me on x and Ig,
Speaker 10: at Threshold Saints or at wukongre Born to w Uko
Speaker 10: Nng dropping an episode with Joe Nally. This other character
Speaker 10: who I've had on a Zuki who calls himself a
Speaker 10: motorcycle outlaw nationalist. This is a really interesting character. We
Speaker 10: talked about Judge Dread and Machiavelli and so that'll be
Speaker 10: a little different for me. And then I have two
Speaker 10: amazing episodes with Satchke, who is basically well he considers
Speaker 10: himself like the Saint of the Crystal Millennial Millennium Kingdom,
Speaker 10: and he actually invented a way to use nineties computers
Speaker 10: to build your own AI, like a personal AI that
Speaker 10: is like for yourself that is not connected to like
Speaker 10: the bigger AI.
Speaker 1: So it's very exciting time.
Speaker 10: I'm really been blessed through obviously this show in particular,
Speaker 10: but also because of at, Joshua and Solar. Of course,
Speaker 10: all three of those guys are like my homies, my brothers,
Speaker 10: and so I really appreciate it, and it's been extremely
Speaker 10: generative and I could not imagine doing aonic work without them.
Speaker 1: So check them all out. Check the Matt out.
Speaker 10: I'm so proud of him doing his tarot and his
Speaker 10: episode that he did at the Young the Young Library.
Speaker 10: I'm sorry, madam forgetting that name, but the Young he
Speaker 10: did a thing on Young A had a famous library
Speaker 10: associated with Young in the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: Great arm Pagan podcast. Thank you very much, Thank you
Speaker 1: very much, matt.
Speaker 2: Aten, thank you so much, Jenner, Thank everybody in the
Speaker 2: chat and for jumping in and hanging out even though
Speaker 2: we didn't have the guests. That's what's up. A lot
Speaker 2: of Jesus, we're still here. Yeah, and if you've got time,
Speaker 2: check it out. Later on nine o'clock Freda RC. We'll
Speaker 2: be talking about in Nochian magic. I'm very very excited
Speaker 2: for that, so yeah, check it out, and uh yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess until the next one, everybody be well, Lada,